Call Her Daddy - The Real Avril Lavigne

Episode Date: May 15, 2024

Join Alex in the studio for a sit-down interview with Avril Lavigne. Avril takes us through some of her most iconic fashion moments (we all remember the neckties!) and her quick rise to fame. She opens up about the feelings that inspired some of her most angsty hits and how she taught herself to make music. Avril also discusses her childhood, what it was like growing up in a strict household, being on the boys hockey team and getting fired from the fried chicken shop. She explains why she’s always preferred to hang with the guys and why skater boys are still her type. Avril gets real about what it’s like to date her, lessons learned from her past relationships, and what she looks for in a partner. Finally, Avril responds to the conspiracy theory that she’s been replaced by a body double named Melissa. Enjoy!

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy avril lavigne just walked into my studio and brought me beer champagne and pizza and i've never done a podcast before dude cheers tops bottoms bottoms tops cris crisps, crocks. Fuck, I already feel so much cooler. I'm really, really happy you're here. I'm obsessed. The way to kick this off is so fucking good.

Daddy gang, if you're listening to this and you cannot see anything, Avril just walked in here. Pizza, beer, champagne. You're a pretty good guest. Thanks for coming. So this is your first podcast. What type of Canadian would I be

if I didn't show up with beer I'm obsessed I didn't know what to expect like obviously I think what's so fun with songwriters and musicians is like we don't all the time get to see your personality so you literally never know what to expect so it's fun to immediately kick it off and be like oh you're comedy you know what you're doing Avril okay. Okay. First podcast. Why don't you usually do sit down long interviews? I usually don't really like interviews. I get it.

If I'm honest. No, it's fine. It's never been like my favorite thing to do, but like you seem super cool. So I'm happy to be here. We're just going to chill for an hour and hopefully you don't hate me by the end of this I promise it's gonna be chill yeah you recently just announced that you're going on a North American tour and you are releasing your greatest hits album how did you decide to do this it's so iconic and inspiring yeah so it's like 22 years into my career now which is super gnarly to even think about. And I'm releasing a Greatest Hits album in June and

going on the Greatest Hits tour. And it's pretty great to be going back out on the road and doing one of the biggest tours of my career this far, just off like celebrating like my catalog. And so I feel like super stoked and lucky to like still be doing my thing and loving it more than ever it's I just like not to freak you out but I love you and I grew up thank you loving you and I used to make the most embarrassing music videos to all of your songs like I have one of the most embarrassing music videos to um nobody's home and it's like a little young Alexlex fucking depressed being like singing in the corner of my room six years old seven years old eight years old to now being

like it's dope to be in your presence wow that's crazy thank you i you made music videos i feel like you need to like find that bring that up and like put little clips on tiktok i need to see that see the thing is avril is like my version of a music video compared to like the young kids on tiktok now like they're hot and cool and like wear cute of a music video compared to like the young kids on tiktok now like they're hot and cool and like wear cute outfits and know how to do like contour i was fucking busted with my little like acne and braces so like they're not cute okay they're for like my parents to see only and be like you were so cute alec i'm like mama i was hideous um what is the difference like when you go on a tour what is the difference between touring now versus like when you first started out?

So like on my first tour, I wanted to be like Green Day because I had gone to one of their shows and like all of their songs were like hit after hit after hit. Just like singles. It was just like power all the way through and so like on my my first tour I only had three singles and the rest was just like album tracks and like for me that just wasn't good enough I wanted every song to be like a banger so I guess I did I worked super hard to get to this point where now like every single song in my set list is as hit song, a single, been like a really big milestone and part of my career. So like making a strong set list is like for me, that's like the biggest thing that goes into the show.

But I think every tour has gotten easier. I've come out of my shell more as a performer. Also like bringing like my favorite bands out on the road to open with me, like actually like my friends. Yeah. Oh, that's true. So we can play like beer pong backstage, skateboard backstage together, have barbecues backstage.

Didn't you have Simple Plan? Yeah. So Simple Plan opened for me on my first tour back in 2002. And you had All time low to all time lower oh my god I was so obsessed with all time low I had post I was like I was like very very obsessed with them at

a point where I was like this is concerning like I really thought I was gonna marry one of them and then like I obviously didn't I was no I was obsessed and I would like wear skinny jeans and like the cult like I would wear like skinny colored jeans. Where are you from? I'm from Pennsylvania.

Okay. And you're from Canada. Yeah, I'm from Canada. What do you do to make it fun on tour? Give me an example. I like touring with my friends and days off taking the bus to a campsite and going camping. Going and pulling up into an RV site of like going to a hotel and just like sitting there staring at the ceiling like what is my life seeing way too many of those way

too long um like I just go on Amazon and I get a bunch of fun like I've got a pink cooler that I've just ordered and pink chairs that'll sit outside of my bus every day there will be beer there um I'll have my skateboards out and then usually my bus is the cool bus because of that with and i have my beer pong table out there and then everyone just like after the show comes my way do you have any like pre-show rituals like are you superstitious at all i'm just like mellow as fuck in the day because if you think about it, the show is around like 9 p.m., which is why noon feels like super early for artists. I'm so sorry that you're even awake. I'm so sorry that this interview is at noon.

I like come walking, I got like one eye open. I'm just like, I haven't worked out. I haven't had breakfast. I need to like make sure I'm covered here. Oh my God. I'm sorry about that. Yeah, someone came in there like, do you think you can lower the

lights a little bit i'm like oh right she's not awake you're literally doing this asleep you're gonna leave and be like what the fuck did i say on that interview my my time even though the interview was at noon my time was like eight o'clock glam stop leave the house at 1030. I was like, can we push sclam till nine? So not superstitious. Yeah, no, I think I just like what's important is that I do take care of myself before the show. And then do the complete opposite after the show. So it's like sleep in, hopefully till three or noon on the early side. And then like the show that is like the gym session.

It's a 90 minute set at like nine o'clock at night. So that's when I have to like give it my all and be awake. But that is actually the flow of my body is to like wake up at night. Not a morning person. We've made that clear. Or a noon person. You're like, why am i here can i take a quick nap alex you just talk for the next hour

no but that makes sense though because i like i think that's like if anyone has a nighttime job like yeah sleeping in you can bring it it starts and then we don't go to bed till 6 a.m. because you get off stage, you're wired, you're amped. Oh my God. The adrenaline. And then like bus call, buses don't leave until like whatever, 3 o'clock. So it's like after the show, we like set up a barbecue, you know, have fun, hang out with the bands and all that.

And party. And for me, like that tour bus, that's my home. So again, another fun Amazon order of just hello the fuck kitty everything i've got like 20 hello kitty pillows in the front lounge and i've got like hello kitty bedding hello kitty towels and everything's just pink and fun oh my god i didn't even think you would be a hello kitty girl yeah i would think like maybe a lot of i have a hollow kitty room on my house the tour bus is hollow kitty tour bus but my room in at my house i have a room well it used to be my bedroom um and it's a hello kitty bedroom when guys came over would they like be a little freaked

out to like have sex in that room well i i wasn't there wasn't a lot of guys okay sorry if a man relationship long relationships right if a man i mean there was like a stripper pool and the coffee in the little coffee table like this huge pink velvet couch full of like all these stuffed animal hello kitties are you getting on the stripper pole oh hell yeah wait you're good on a stripper pole wait you need to teach me what the fuck how did you learn you just you just have a couple of those and wing it you have a couple beers and you're ready to go wow a new talent i guess if i'd asked you like what's a hidden talent would you ever say that or no? No.

Next time you go to a party and they ask you a fun fact about yourself, you're like, I can rip on a stripper pole. You're welcome. What is one of the craziest, like, fan interactions you've ever had? I got a wedding dress when I was, like, over in Korea. Bunny was thrown at me on my lap in, like, a bag. And I was like, oh, what's this? It's warm.

And I, like, opened it. I'm like, ah like i thought it was a cat it was a bunny uh but we took care of it made sure it went somewhere safe and then i had a wedding dress and i was like that's cool but it's weird yeah because now that like woman will never see her wedding dress again no it was like for me from a guy wait what i thought you were saying like a woman gave you her wedding dress to like take and sign a man gave you a wedding dress yeah I guess that was a super forward way of proposing but I have that effect on people literally literally we'll get to that your style Can we talk about this for a minute? Because again, like when I was younger, I just remember so many moments in early 2000s. Trends were dictated by you, queen.

Like your style was and is everything. If you had to pick three essential wardrobe items that are like your staples, what would you pick? A big hoodie. It's like an oversized black hoodie um like bondage pants and like military boots like combat boots okay so that has like kind of changed because when I was younger Avril I remember it was the necktie but you don't understand like I would look at you and be like oh my this is the fucking coolest thing ever that she's wearing a necktie so I would venture into my older brother's room but he went to like a like catholic prep school

so he had ties that were like wide as fuck and ugly and hideous and that's the only tie I could find and I would like wear it around my house with like a little wife beater and I really oh my god stop that is so cute I really thought I was doing something and I hope those photos never surface but the necktie was iconic and then like the little um like the sweat bands on your wrist you used to wear which were so cool yeah it's crazy um I've been thinking about the tie a lot lately and the wristbands the sweatbands with the the skater boy star which is like my tattoo right here and I'll probably wear those on stage because I used to wear them all the time all the time yeah and um that's so fun maybe I'll wear the necktie on stage please honestly do it for me. I will literally have a revival in my soul.

I need to come do a show. I'm so obsessed. But that would be epic. I think everyone, anytime we see you in a tie, it just brings us back to our childhood, and it makes us happy. It was so crazy. My first show, so I was 17,

and it was, I don't know where it was. It was in Vancouver somewhere and it was sort of like a warm-up show they were putting together for me and it was like in like a little club and it was like the first real show and I remember like being up in my dressing room and looking out onto the street and seeing like all the like fans lined up to come in and they were the girls were they were dressed like me. They had on the tank, white tank top and the tie and, like, stick straight hair and black eyeliner. And I was like, what?

I was like, this is crazy. And it, like, from, like, the first show, it was, like, from the beginning, it was, like, a thing. And pretty cool, too, to see, like, every album, album like my image changed a bit so like under my skin my second album I put like black hair in and was wearing the bondage pants and then all the girls front row like the blonde hair with the black underneath the bondage pants black eyes the third album the best damn thing showing up the show with the uh the pink streak in the hair and just like I will never forget that trust me I thought about doing it my mom was like absolutely fucking not Alex I'm like shit were you always like super

confident to wear whatever you wanted to wear like your whole life yeah it kind of just like came together I didn't like think about it or anything um like obviously when I was younger I was like just dressing in whatever my mom bought and then when I got you know into high school I was like okay I like hoodies and skateboarding clothes and I started skateboarding and was into like West 49 and vans and started wearing like really baggy pants and my parents were like um are you gonna be dressing like a boy so like when I like made when I went out to New York City and um was like meeting with like important people and writing songs in the studio they were kind of like, can you dress up a little better? But what was awesome was when I got signed by L.A. Reid, I was sitting in his office. I was like 16 and he just looked at me and he was like taking a meeting with my mom and I.

And he's like, you know, you have like your own thing going on, girl. Like usually we have like people come in and you have to like figure out what your style is and we help you and whatever. He's like, you got your own thing going on. You just keep doing you. I think that was awesome. I'm so glad he did that. Probably looking back, that did instill confidence in me. But also, I didn't care.

I was going to dress that way anyway. Right. No, but that's like a great thing to know that someone didn't try to change you. That was probably in a position where like, if they asked you to, I'm sure your mom and you would have looked at each other and been like, fuck, like, is this what we have to do to make it in this industry? And like, normally they probably,

especially like at that time with like, all bubblegum pop was so big, they probably would have put me in something sexy cute pink girly frilly like mid-drift and like that wasn't not my vibe there's definitely like times that like photo shoots I'd show up at whatever magazine to shoot to shoot and they wanted to put me in stuff that like I was very afraid of like blouses and I was just like nah so I'd like you know you'd have to like have a word with them the manager would be like you know she has her own style and like pull out my like skateboarding book bag and dump like

my ties and my spike bracelets on the floor and be like and I used to wear my stuff but we had to go back and forth but it was like a little bit of a fight and I had to always push for that but it worked out pretty good it worked out phenomenally I want to go back a little bit to your childhood because I think like when you're looking at someone so famous and so successful it is fascinating like you grew up in Canada in a really small town with like 5,000 people how would you describe your childhood like before you were famous You grew up in Canada in a really small town with like 5,000 people. How would you describe your childhood like before you were famous? How would you describe your childhood like before you were famous normal as fuck and i'm like grateful for that because like i came out at like a really young age and i'm glad that i had like a normal steady like solid childhood um I played a lot of sports I was on the hockey team I was gonna say

the guys hockey team how the fuck did you get onto the guys hockey team well I just wanted to play hockey and it was like the guys there wasn't a girls league um so I was able to play from like novice to peewee and then peewee is when there's body contact and that's when I wasn't allowed to play anymore but then at that by that time I was in grade nine like my first year of high school and they had a girls team in the high school so I tried out for that and I almost said auditioned you auditioned I tried out for the girls team in high school and I made it. And then I blew it by going to our first tournament

out of town and getting expelled from school and kicked out of the tournament because someone got caught drinking in the hotel room and someone ratted her out. No, Avril no and my parents were just so mad at me like it was like i like did drugs or something which i've never done by the way and it was like i had done something so terrible it's like who cares of course i'm i'm away from my parents i'm in a hotel we're in toronto the big city doing like an you know like an offside tournament and like yeah I got busted so I got had to go home my parents were like we're gonna send you to the

Catholic school and I was just like oh what have I done stop did you make friends with all the guys when you were playing with like guys or were you like the odd man out and people would make fun of my whole life I've been like friends with guys guys all in school and we would like get in real fights. I'm a good blocker. That's like that was my move. I'm a blocker like block the punch. And yeah so I played a lot of sports hockey in the winter baseball in the summer I was a pitcher. There played a lot of sports, hockey in the winter, baseball in the summer. I was a pitcher. There was a lot of like because I was so into hockey, like there's a lot of like rollerblading. So I was rollerblading around town, building forts, skateboarding and and all that stuff. Yeah, I hung out with the guys and then I like left home, had a band, lived on a tour bus with guys.

And still like to this day, I'm just, like, most of my friends are guys. Did your parents ever be like, why don't you have any girlfriends? Like, should we invite, like, Rebecca over? Like, let's try this. Let's give it a whirl-a-whirl. Or did they, like, not give a shit? My parents were really strict with me. Like, if I had a guy over who was just my friend even, like, no bedroom it was like the middle floor they monitored it it was dinner it was but all we wanted to do anyway was run around

and like rollerblade skateboard play mini hockey I played hockey too and my brother played hockey yes what position I was like well first of all I was like not that great I ended up going and playing soccer but I was like on offense and my dad works for the NHL yeah so like my whole life hockey it was oh my god we were a full it was oh my god it was cool but we were like it was weird I think in Pennsylvania like you're lucky Canada it was like that's the sport yeah but in Pennsylvania people were like why do you have your children playing freaking hockey and my dad was like it's just the best sport ever like just trust us and so we had like roller hockey mini hockey in the basement on the carpet like you

take the sticks and burn them over the stove yes oh my god and like I think people are like what are you guys doing in your basement we're're like, we're playing mini hockey. Living our best lives. Literally thriving. And it was so fun. No one will ever fuck with us when we're older. But it's cool that you played hockey because I feel like it's obviously a sport that makes you really fucking tough. It does. And you just learn to like basically get the shit beaten out of you on the ice. And then you're like, oh, it's normal day.

And it's freezing cold. All the pads. And you wake up. And, it's normal day. And it's freezing cold. All the pads. And you wake up. And just skating alone is so hard. It's like gnarly cardio. And then if you're actually like playing and stick handling and shooting and like you're out there and the game is happening, skating is its own thing. Oh, my God.

I remember like I want because my husband is from L.A. And I so badly just want to take him like ice skating even if it's like during Christmas time around like the little fucking pond okay because he's so good at sports but he does not know how to ice skate so I'm like watch me backwards skate watch me skate around watch me do drills bitch like can you are you awesome on skates i'm really good like me too we should go skate yes we're in a like like i can skate backwards yes crossover all of it it's like it is a pretty good skill to have and i feel like it's a flex when like a guy takes you ice skating during like the holidays and you're like oh you think i'm gonna have to hold your hand or hold on to like the rails the

whole time bitch i'm gonna be holding you like i know matt's gonna be falling and i'm gonna be holding him I just don't know if I want to take him because I may get the ick so I just like need to be careful make sure he's ready for that no literally so you like had a pretty normal upbringing which I'm happy you're talking about because it's like you're playing sports you're hanging I babysat I shoveled driveways I m mowed lawn. Oh my God. And did the whippersnipper. The weed whacker. The whippersnipper. Oh, I put flyers out. Stop.

I cleaned houses. You did it all. I worked at a fried chicken place. How was that? And then I got fired. Again? Were you drinking on the job? No, I'm a really good, a hard worker.

I actually asked, requested for some time off to perform somewhere, and he used it against me. Oh, my God. He must feel so fucking dumb now. He's like, fuck. And then I wrote a song about it on my first album. Wait, which one? It's called My World.

And that's about the chicken shop you worked at? Got fired by a fried chicken ass all in a small town, Napanee. Wait, that was about him. Shut the fuck up. And like I heard after they like took the lyrics of my song and like framed it and put it up in the store. You're like, fuck. Fuck you. I could have used the extra $20.

Wait, that's fucking epic. I didn't realize that. Like now I need to go back and listen to that song again because sometimes when you're listening to songs you're like oh did they just kind of like make that up or like yeah that you literally lived that you got fucking fired from those I talk about my hair is actually so curly like no one knows that I have a really frizzy curly hair what I didn't discover the flat iron until the making of my first album so on that song also my world I talk about how I would braid my hair in a zillion braids and it would take me all freaking day because it would take me five hours so I would just braid my hair in little braids

because there was no flat iron back then or definitely not in my small town right then when I came to LA I was like working on my album my producer took me to get a blow dry and i was like what this is a life changing do you know what i have done i used to like shower and like wash my hair like put on a toque stop what you guys call a beanie in the states a beanie just like let my hair try to drive flat i i couldn't get it straight you're trying to literally pin it to your head so then she got me my producer got me a flat iron for actually yeah for my birthday and then it was it was game over everyone just thinks i have stick straight hair because i was like never will i ever want curly hair again it's so

straight it's so straight like your first album I remember because my hair is so naturally straight that I was like oh my because so girls used to make fun of me in like middle school being like your best friend is your straightener and I was like I don't own a straightener because my hair was so straight so when I saw your first album I was like oh my god she's a straight hair girl like me now I'm realizing like Averill dude if you saw my hair it's like poof it's like so curly I hate it but like my friends like it I bet it's so gorge like I bet you actually look amazing but I get when you're younger like anything you have you're like I want the opposite I don't want this shit but my hair is so thick so when I do get a blow dry it's like

lasts for like a week when I'm thinking now of how normal your upbringing was like yeah what do you think people in your town thought when you started getting famous i don't know like do you think it was a surprise to people like okay so like around school okay so when I was 14 I won a contest to sing on stage with Shania Twain in Ottawa so I was like a few hours away from my small town and like I sang on stage with her and then I came back and I was like famous in my high school it was like walking around the hallway I was like ah singer girl she's the singer girl that's like, ah, singer girl. She's the singer girl. That's several. So everyone kind of knew me as like the singer girl. You got famous at 17 years old.

Yeah. Like big, big thing. So I'm a high school dropout. Love, love. Me too. I went to New York and I started making my first album. My friends were all doing, what are those things called? The exams.

Oh. The shit I didn't have to do. Is it an exam? Like SATs? What's the thing at the end? Yeah. Yeah. An exam.

Yeah. I didn't have to do that. Oh, fine. I would make fun of them and I'd be like, thank God I don't have to do this. I'm just in New York gaining 10 pounds, eating McDonald's and pizza every day. No shit. That's all my brother and I did because he came to chaperone. Oh, my God.

And so, yeah. But all I was thinking at the same time was, this better work. Right. You're like, fuck. This better work. Because I feel like you're a quite confident person. Like, did you have any insecurities back then? No.

I was like, just like tomboy, liked hanging out with the guys loved music um and then you know like when I was when I was younger I was singing in church singing at like the country fairs around town that's kind of like those were sort of the like options in front of me then when I got into high school so like 14 14, 15, I was like, not really feeling these songs anymore. So I like went through a phase where it was like I could have gone, you know, I was at a crossroads. It could have been like, OK, I'm not going to sing anymore. Or it was just like I was just like, I don't want to do these events anymore. So I started turning them down and it was kind of like, Oh, what are we doing here?

And that forced me to write my own songs. So I sat in my bedroom and was like playing the guitar. I had no idea what I was doing. I knew one chord, but I was going to figure it out. And so I started definitely like writing for sure at 14. And I know that because one of my songs I wrote, Oh my God, really? I'm 14 years old. old no I'm not that old that's one of the fucking lyrics in the song so I was like I know I was writing by 14

um that's amazing yeah so and then I got into high school and then I discovered like Green Day and Noah Fax Blink-182 and I I was like, yes. And like got an electric guitar, wore it low and just started writing my own songs. And that's kind of like where it all shifted for me. And then sort of like ended up performing again and making my way to New York City, getting a record deal by like 16 and was so young. No one could fathom that like I wanted to write my own songs. So that was like the biggest

sort of challenge on my making of the first album and that everyone, the producers, you know, they naturally went to like polished and fluffy and this and that. And I was just like, no. And it was like really, I worked with a million people on that album. And then I finally connected towards the end with, um, uh, a couple of producers that then understood they like sat there and listened to me and, and heard what I was going for. We wrote the songs together and it was like a really perfect collaboration where it was like okay there's this young girl she has a vision we're gonna work with her and help her get there and they were all extremely talented people too and so fought for that got it and like you know developed

my own sound and style and and the rest is history that first like sound and style, like I remember I was reading somewhere you really described it as like pretty like angsty and like you coming across as like a quite like chill, happy person. Like, were you actually feeling a lot of those emotions? Because like some of the songs are really fucking sad because trust me, I cried to them when I was growing up. So like where were those feelings coming from? I'm a really big feeler and I feel everything. And I've gone through, you know, I've obviously experienced all different types of emotion. When you're in high school, when you're going in that age, you know, you're really trying to let you're like feeling having a crush for the first time or being disappointed, feeling neglected,

or like being vulnerable and opening your heart to someone, your first breakup and the excitement of something new. There's so much to like tap into and to write about. I was never really thinking about it. It would probably just end up being like that day, what I was feeling. There's definitely like songs like L grip i'm often like i listen to the lyrics and i'm like and i knew it when i was writing them like where's this shit coming from is this my past life are your parents ever like what the fuck avril are you okay i i'm not really but they were they were like they didn't like the swearing they were a little like you know the clothes and da da da but like they get it my mom when i was two she was like she knew i was gonna be a singer like came home from church she's like she's holy shit holy god she's like

she's like oh came home she said i came home from church singing jesus loves me or jesus loves you and she's like oh my god my God, she can sing. And so my parents were like so supportive and like obviously wouldn't be here without that support. Were you always confident getting on a stage? Like, are you like, I feel like you're not. You were. Yeah. I always have this weird dream, though, where I'm on stage and I can't remember the words.

Why have I been doing that lately? We stopped. But now I'm confident on stage. It's like, you never even thought about it. It's like nothing. Yeah. That's incredible. And when, okay.

And then when I sang with Shania on stage, it was in front of like 20,000 people in this arena, like packed. I was 14 and I did all I felt like over my whole body was like I like walked out on stage and I was just like oh my gosh like I really this is what I really want like for me and then like two years later three years later I sold out that arena and played my own show do you remember like how you felt I was like this is crazy this is insane And when you would have those moments of like, holy fuck, like would you turn to like your mom? Like who was your go-to person to like freak out with? I still like have them all the time.

Wow. Just like if I'm just like walking, I hear myself like out in public and I'm like, I was going to say, and I'm in a mall. And then I hear myself, but I'm not really in a mall. I don't know where I am. Maybe it's an outdoor mall. I don't know where I am. Maybe it's an outdoor mall. I don't know. I love wherever I am. And I hear myself on the radio.

Like, it's definitely like, damn, bitch. You made it. Like, small town. No connections. I don't know how I did it. It was supposed to happen, obviously. It was. A lot of hard work.

But it's really interesting to hear you talking about your songwriting process because you're so talented thank you and hearing you be like i'm writing losing grip and i'm literally like what the fuck am i where did i did i experience this like nobody's home like it's right well i kind of felt that way too but like i was also like okay i'm gonna write this about this like girl that I know. Or like the words sort of start and I'm like, oh, I'm going to take it in this direction. And it's not about me. And I'm tapping into like what I know somebody else went through.

Interesting. Yeah. How did you feel about all the fame and attention? I think I was fine with it. And like my whole life is like weird because of it. Like everything I do, you're in public. So you just like do weird things like there's people walking. So you just kind of turn or like you're not just going to like stand there.

You know, it's like I mean, if I was like in an airport waiting for like a suitcase, you know, you're going to like kind of stand behind the like pillar. You're not just going to stand. It's all like that. And it never bugged me or anything. I just like I got it. I was like, OK, this is how things go now. That's all like that. And it never bugged me or anything. I just like, I got it. I was like, okay, this is how things go now.

That's a really healthy way to look at it. Because I feel like that's a unique perspective. Yeah. Like I feel like a lot of people feel like they don't have autonomy over their life once they get famous. And you're like chilling. Like I get followed every time. Not every time, but I get followed when I leave my house. I don't know how I try to like go different ways and stuff like that.

And so like I like to go to the grocery store and I like to do all that stuff, but I have to be in the headspace to like energetically, energetically handle it, which I'm totally fine with too. Like, really, do you really want your picture taken like this? If you walk out right now, are you okay with it? You know what I mean? It's like, you have to think about that. Do you really want your picture taken like this if you walk out right now? Are you okay with it? You know what I mean? It's like you have to think about that.

I mean, I am really pleased by your answer. There is no right or wrong answer. I've had musicians sit here and be like, I'm such an introvert. It's really fucking hard. And I hate it. And I wish I could just write songs and upload it and never be in public. That's awesome to know that you're someone that's like, I don't really care. It's actually kind of chill.

It is what it is. And I learned it and how to move with it and it's like I would never complain about it because what I get to do is fucking awesome and that's part of it like how fucking cool is that that like people know who I am that means my music got heard so fucking true true. What do you think people, if anything, like misunderstood about you from your career and like you growing up in the spotlight? So I think when people meet me, like I think they're like, oh my God, you're so nice. You're so sweet. No, I've had like ask people to like guys are like, you're just like, like more like, I don't know what the word is, like soft, soft like feminine more than a girlie or something um I think people because of like my maybe my music videos think I'm like like all the time I'm not I'm actually like well what do you think what is your take on me I mean I yeah I mean just now trying to think about it, because I think when you were younger, I really and I was younger.

I channeled like, oh, this girl's sad and angry. Like because I know it was like angry Avril. Yeah. And I think that was like, but now it's kind of really incredible to like get to sit across from you and hear you be like some of these songs I was writing. Like there was a girl I knew and I was like writing about her and then like it really wasn't that deep like my boss fucking fired me from my chicken spot and so I'm like fuck you I wish I got my extra 20 and my new my other paycheck like I think it's I do think though I don't take back though like I loved how deep those songs were and antsy they were because I felt like a lot of people needed that that type of music back then like I think you're right there was so much like pop

and princess and it was like yeah like let's shake our bodies and be and I'm like I don't my my crush that doesn't even know I exist broke up with me and he didn't even know he broke up with me but he didn't look at me today so I'm heartbroken and I'm gonna go listen to Losing Grip and I'm going to fucking cry. I needed that. OK, I don't need like a shake your body and dance and be happy. Sure. Maybe on a Friday night.

But like I in that era needed that depressing-esque music. Is that fucked up to say? Yeah. But it's nice to know you weren't depressed, I guess. I mean, I mean, I went through it all And I was like a teenager and feeling the feels. And I was definitely like in like emo and like going through it and like feeling it all. And it's like I don't want to write a song about being happy because it's going to be kind of like cheesy and like not that cool. Kind of going through that right now. I'm like, I don't know what to write about. Because, like, it's just, like, that's the thing.

It's, like, an intense emotion. Like, Head Above Water was, like, a really dark, heavy song for me. Like, kind of, like, near-death experience. Like, one of the hardest things I've ever gone through in my life. But, like, real easy to write about. It's literally, like, laying there in in bed, like I'm dying and I'm accepting it. Oh, there's a song. And I literally grabbed my phone and like the song like channels caught me. Um, are you referencing when you got sick? Yeah. Okay. And that was really kind of like

what two plus years of your life you were like in bed. Yeah. It was like a, it was kind of like bedridden for a couple years and like and then like you know you gotta get like stronger coming out of that and that's something that like rocks you pretty hard but like i'm really grateful to be like on the other other end of that and so that was like a really um in i'll think twice about uh riding the dirt bikes out in the woods on the East Coast next time. Because it was Lyme disease. Yes.

All I did was like outside. And it's like, you know. But I get what you're saying. You're like, then you're laying there and you're like, yeah, I can write a depressing song right now because this fucking sucks. But it's like waves of emotion that you're like tuning into. And I've gone through a lot in my life in love, like tons of ups and downs. And like, you know, definitely written like the angry songs and the sad songs and have going through like something hard in life. It's easy to like sit down at the piano, especially that instrument really pulls it out of me um but on like my last album love sucks it was like much

lighter um even though it was like little boy bashing and like poking fun at like love and stuff it was i kind of like putting a twist on my songs now where it's like it's like it's funny it's like i'm just like rolling my eyes at myself for it not working out again or something and just having fun with it. I'm in a place right now today where I'm writing and I don't really want it to be that dark. I say that means nothing at all because tomorrow I could write a boo-hoohoo song I think that's something that I just

never know like with it's like when I when I'm in the kitchen and I'm cooking I don't know what I'm cooking and it turns into what it turns into I get a canvas I love to paint I have no idea what I'm doing I'm like oh that looks cool that could go on the wall that one not so much no it's when you write a song sometimes like you can be intentional with an album go in and be like this is my vibe or you can just like wing it right and just see what kind of comes out and gets put together I think that some people may not know like I love that you said like when you walked into those meetings people were like how is like a 15 16 year old 16 year old girl trying to write? Like,

here, let us give you writers and like, just go sing, sweetie. And I think you're such an incredible, I know you're such an incredible writer that like, I know one of the fun facts online that everyone still can't get over is that you wrote Breakaway for Kelly Clarkson. And that's like a perfect example of like, you're so talented. Do you remember writing that song? And like, was it about a heartbreak? The lyric used to be, I grew up in a small town and when the snow would fall down, I would just stare out my window. I'm actually gonna, um, probably will perform that breakaway Kelly Clarkson's breakaway on the greatest hits tour. That would be fucking amazing. How,

but how did you decide to get rid of it um i just like wasn't feeling it yeah and um i'm so glad it went to her she killed it it was a massive hit for her and um yeah it's kind of like just like growing um being from a small town and taking a chance and like going into the big city and going after your dream there is a crazy rumor out there about you that I obviously have to ask about. And I always ask people when they come on my show, like, oh, what's the craziest rumor that you've ever heard about yourself? I guess I could just first ask you, like, what would you answer before I ask you? Oh, yeah, that one.

I know what you're talking about. I mean, it's just funny to me. Like on like one end, everyone's like, oh my God, you look the exact same. You haven't aged a day. But then other people are like, you know, there's a conspiracy theory that I'm not me. There is a. Cool. Honestly, it's not that bad. It could be worse. Right worse right like i feel like i got a good one

but is it okay i don't think it's like negative or anything like creepy so it's like everald this conspiracy theory about you is a little creepy come on oh no yeah i don't know it could be worse it could yeah yeah, you could be getting like online books. Obviously, I am me. It's so dumb. To people that don't understand, just to give people context, there's a conspiracy theory that Avril Lavigne is no longer with us. And there is a woman named Melissa who took over.

And you, I can't even say seriously, you sitting across from me, you are Melissa. And there are like conspiracy theories that run so fucking deep. Like, does it annoy you that there will be people that comment on this episode being like, that's Melissa. That's not that girl. When did it start? My second album? Like, I don't even know. Like, I think like from the beginning-ish second album.

I don't know. And why do you think people think that? I think that they've done that with other artists I'm not the only one I think like other people have that I feel like yours is like really prominent oh I mean I feel like you might believe that I'm honestly the one that started the conspiracy I'm one of those freak bloggers that's like I went undercover to interview Melissa no but it's it's fucking crazy and I just have empathy for you but it's good again to know you don't give a fuck where

people are like oh Melissa showed up today I'm like I remember like being like what are people talking about and then I went and started looking and like oh people are fucking insane so you don't we're over it okay so your name is Avril Lavigne yeah but I knew you half believed it I'm telling you what's crazy is you haven't aged I'm staring at you and like I'm picturing you with your like auburn hair and I'm like oh my god you literally look the same from when you were younger you're beautiful um let's talk about your literally look the same from when you were younger. You're beautiful. Thank you. Let's talk about your love life. Your career exploded when you were so young. Like, were you still able to go on dates with guys and then not be freaked out by your success? I never really did the dating thing.

I was always like in a pretty major relationship. You're a relationship girl. Yeah. What are you like in a relationship? I'm fucking awesome. I would date me i love that um i cook i'm a really big cook really big into like the house and decorating and i have like a lot of fun with that so yeah i'd always have people over at my house throw parties cook big huge dinners at the dining room table.

I'm going to order that keg sand. There is going to be a full bar. We are going to have beer pong and stay up until the sun comes up. It's going to be a good time. And there will be Hello Kitty and stripper balls. And there will be matching tattoos involved. All of my tattoos were drunk tattoos. And they'd be boring if I was sober.

All of them are drunk. So let's finish this beer and then we'll call my tattoo art. We'll go to Shamrock on Sunset. Okay, so all these are drunk tattoos. Yeah, I like the Sk8er Boi star was my first tattoo. I was 19. And then. Do your parents have tattoos?

All my tattoos are. Oh, I have tattoos all my tattoos are oh i have tattoos on my hips um no i think i'm the only one in the family really with a bunch of tattoos my dad had a couple okay um what is the hardest lesson you've ever learned about love i mean i definitely went through my with my previous album called Love Sucks. And I had gone into a place of, all right, I'm just going to like focus on myself. I'm going to move to Malibu. I'm going to build my own life for me. And I'm not going to like wait for a guy

or rely on a guy to like do that and um I definitely felt like I had the wind knocked out of me um I had been through like enough and um it was definitely like never I was in a place of like never trust a guy again and just like you're gonna have to like rely on yourself um but I don't feel that way today thankfully that's amazing yeah have you ever been cheated on have I been with a male before then the answer is yes much as anyone's ever fucked me over which has happened a shit ton I've always just like been the classy bitch and taken the high road and kept kept it to myself I appreciate that um I think a lot of people stay in things because they're like nervous to start over I think that's like a really normal feeling especially for women it's like yeah people are

fearful fearful do you have any advice of like how to know when to move on and like how to get yourself out of something that's like maybe comfortable but you know you need to like be on your own and be single it's hard when you're in something because like you're in it so you know it's a big deal to leave a relationship to to change is hard to have to step out it requires a lot you know and some people can't see like that that clearly it's like always easier once you're um on the other end but if you're not happy you're never gonna be happy and life is short and you should just really get out as soon as possible so you can move on and then, you know, have a better future for yourself. Some people like to have like something that they're leaving and going to. And, you know,

sometimes you have to take that leap of faith and just trust that if you're not happy, it's not a healthy relationship. It's not a good situation just to get out. And it's okay to have like time on your own in between if you need it. And, you know, just believe and hope that something greater is out there for you. And if not, you're better off on your own than someone draining the fuck out of you. Facts. Thank you. Are you seeing anyone right now?

Now I know even if you were, you're never going to fucking tell me. Maybe. Okay. What do you look for in a partner do you remember this year oh kind of okay let's try it again fuck you're avoiding my question okay okay do it again do it again okay tops bottoms bottoms tops crisps okay that's pretty good and are you a beer drinker I am when I'm like whether I'm like outside for summer like I'm not drinking beer usually if it's like winter but if it's like summer I like to drink it like with Matt if I'm sitting outside with my dogs like it's like a, I like to drink it like with Matt, if I'm sitting outside with my dogs, like it's like a chill drink. If I'm like, oh, I don't want to be drinking tequila tonight. I will drink beer.

And also in college. Are you kidding me? I was drinking Maddie's like a freak and like it was bad and beer ponging and everything. So like any day, any time, any time in California, you could be a beer drinker. Absolutely. Exactly. Pennsylvania. You should come to my house in Malibu. We'll be a beer drinker absolutely exactly pennsylvania you should come to my house in malibu we'll we'll have a beer we'll have a beer and play

beer pong and you'll answer some of my questions off camera yeah oh honey if you only knew you're giving us blue balls okay what do you okay so you may be seeing someone. What do you look for in a partner? So I think the most important thing is finding someone that you're compatible with because you could be two different great people, but if you're not compatible, you're not going to get along, so you're going to argue. So compatibility. Obviously, it all just sounds cliche. Someone that is trustworthy. Cause if you don't have that,

you're just never going to feel grounded in the relationship and you're going to be spinning. So that's just not healthy. I'm looking for, you know, I, a healthy relationship is ideal. Duh. Like, do we really have to say these things are so simple and cliche and basic but that's what you need no it's true you need compatibility trust like

do you have a type i don't think i have a type but like someone who's at least like i think someone who's like me who's like sporty got a you know a little rough around the edges likes to have a good time but hat is like you know a solid i need someone who's like a solid that i can lean on yeah oh my god would you ever date like an athlete what about a hockey player no you're like they're too no what about a guy from canada that's on the in the nhl come on wait that's fucking perfect no we're done with the rappers did you ever date Tyga you're like get out of here wait does it annoy you that every time you upload something with Tyga people are like is this your announcement that you're

dating or you don't care like I didn't google myself is that what it says yes Melissa it says you really believe it I promise I don't um what does it take for a guy to impress you on a first date um I think I've changed a lot and my expectations and what I am looking for because I've like, you know, learned through my experiences and just, you know, I'm into something that's just like stable, healthy, fun, just well-rounded. What?

I'm like this shit just sounds super cheesy. That's why I don't write love songs. Avril, this is good good this is like therapy like you can totally be happy and say happy thoughts but then like please keep writing bangers that like make me cry like please although like girlfriend was like not pop well that was actually not happy it was just like sassy and cocky I don't like your girlfriend I think you need a new one I could be your girlfriend oh my god I wrote that fucking song in two minutes that chorus literally two minutes I was like putting my book bag on leaving the studio it was like 11 o'clock at night and I was like play me a riff because we were borrowing. We had this like amazing Les Paul and I was I was talking to Luke and I was like, yo, play me something like punk rock right now. And he's like, Darren and Aaron and Aaron and I was like, hey, you, I don't like a girlfriend.

And he's like and we're like, no way. And he's like, think you need a new one. And I was like, hey, you, I could be a girlfriend. Literally, he puts the drums to it. Two minutes wrote that put it on a cd i got a cd put in my car and i took it home i was like this is gonna be the song of the summer it was and i knew it and my body has done that to me like with my happy ending i say we were in the studio made a song i came in after i was done singing it sat down they played

me the song and i was like i just got this entire feeling over my body and i i just like i can't explain it i was like it was like i knew it was big but i wasn't like this is a hit like i didn't like talk like that but i was like this is gonna be like i could feel it like i knew it was gonna be a big song for me the same with complicated laying in in the grass in california one of my first trips and around the orange trees with writing with lauren and we're like working on this song and i just remember like sitting on the floor and i'm like i hear this on the radio like I have like these really strong feelings with like some of my big songs do you remember I never had that feeling with a song that didn't like that's wild yeah go to number one when you came up with complicated was that one where you were actually like experiencing in your life or you were just like I just was

kind of like it just felt right and I like came up with this verse and it worked. I had like a couple of weeks or a month with the Matrix. And Lauren and I were just like getting blow dries and like getting cupcakes at Ralph's and like sitting in the backyard and just talking. And I was just like, you know, like I love skater boys. And this is the only type of guy I'm attracted to. I will literally walk down the street and I see someone wearing big fat skate shoes and I will look twice. And so it's like our conversations and then, you know, them as a team working musically on stuff and us all getting together and just complicated.

Skater Boy, I'm With You. Those are the singles off the first album. Where were you when you wrote I'm With You? We were sitting on the piano it was like that was like one of those days where you're like getting in touch with the sad like more like depressed

like self and that's okay you know people really connected with that song and still to this day that's like one of my favorite songs to perform live. It's fucking powerful. Like even to me, 22 years later, I play that fucking shit on stage. I'm seeing people like we're going from like all the pop rock songs. Everyone's like fist pumping and like losing their shit. I go into that tears. People like

moved and it's like you see all the different emotions and that's why writing is important to me because I'm so connected to the songs I think there's something with like my me being like super authentic in the way that like I dressed and like wrote the songs and just the way I was and didn't give a fuck and wasn't calculated and it was all that and that people really like um were attracted to that and and like connected with that well yeah because when you look at someone in the industry you can literally tell like and I'm not being like rude it's just obvious when someone has been like constructed by like these dance moves and this song and this is I'm like you didn't write that song you wouldn't wear that if a stylist like the stylist put that on you you can tell like you've been yourself since day one and you've stuck up for what you believe in literally from the fashion to your writing to your sound to your

look like thank god we got you a straightener now you're happy I want to see your great hair I didn't want to think about what I was wearing today and I was like oh my god you have this really cool like sweat line it's called unwell yeah wearing today. And I was like, oh my God, you have this really cool sweat line. It's called Unwell. Yeah. That's so cool. I was like, oh yeah, I just want to pull up and wear sweats. And instead, I just wore the shirt I was wearing the night before.

I literally wore this t-shirt for two days. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. I know, because when I thought you were going to wear sweats, I was like, oh my God, I would totally give you sweats. But this outfit is so cute. I will put the sweats on and go home and veg in them for three days thank you no Avril I just want to say thank you for coming because like I had no idea what to expect

obviously meeting you I was like obviously hoping that we would hit it off because again like I'm such a huge fan but it's fascinating and it was incredible to meet you and to like listen to where you came from and your upbringing and your story and like how fucking talented you are like the way that I'm sorry like I could listen to you for 10 more hours talk about your songwriting process because again like we don't see that that often nowadays I feel like a lot of people are just like very manufactured and you are such an artist from the start to finish I think this tour and this album is like I'm freaking out about it so I can imagine all of your other friends or fans are also freaking what do you hope they take away from this tour

when they come it's just like for the fans that have been with me from day one it's just like even for myself it's just like, even for myself, it's just all the years and all the different eras and all the different phases in our, in our lives from like high school to this date to that date and connecting with the songs. And like you hear a song and it takes you back. I even hear like one of my songs and it takes me back to like that time of my life. It's like, it's been, you know, so long, it's been 22 years. And I feel like I have like another 22 ahead of me. But it's a journey of our lives. It like takes us back to high school, college, like this phase, that phase, that relationship this summer, that summer. And

that's like the power and beauty in music is like, it can take you right back there, you can feel it all over again. I think it's just like a celebration of life, our lives, and remembering like all the good times and music does that. And I think the shows are going to be like super fun. I'm stoked to be going back out on tour, my seventh world tour. And I'm like so grateful to like be from a tiny little town, you know, playing hockey and skateboarding and to have been able to like write music and to have it um be successful internationally and to have like

to still be doing my thing today I'm like looking forward to like growing like creatively and dipping my toes in to in the you know other creative waters and doing film and like turning skater boy into a movie and like you know all that other stuff so I'm super grateful but I just want everybody to have a good time and most importantly I want to have a good time last question what are the top three favorite songs for you that you're going to be performing like if you had to pick oh my own song yeah yeah when you're going out there from the album and on this tour like what are your top three favorites to perform if you had to pick I know that's hard well it's funny because there's no new songs right so like I definitely want to bring a cover song in and I recently just um met

up with the Green Day Boys and gave them an award at the iHeart Awards. And it's like seeing them again. I was like, these guys are cool. Like Dookie was one of the first CDs like my brother and I had. And like they're celebrating that right now. And so like I definitely want to do a Green Day cover. And Girlfriend is really fun. I love I'm With You my happy ending so good

and of course Skater Boy Skater Boy boom Avril thank you so much and maybe I'll put the tie on for you please send me a fucking picture and you have to come out to the LA show please oh my god that's when you're gonna wear it please like literally please

like make me feel so special you and your hubby should come to the show oh my god we would love to i would love to come thank you for coming on the show you can go to bed now i love you