Call Her Daddy - Why I Was Forced to Hide My Pregnancy

Episode Date: March 26, 2023

Women are often forced to believe they have to choose between their career and motherhood and are told that they can’t have both. Allyson Felix, the most decorated female track and field olympian of all time, joins Call Her Daddy to share her story and explain that you CAN have both. Allyson opens up about the discrimination she faced as a woman in sports and how she used her voice to speak up and enact real change.

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Allison Felix, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. So, Daddy Gang, with 11 Olympic medals, Allison Felix is the most decorated track and field Olympian of all time. But today we're here to talk about equality and women's health. I listened to your TED Talk, Allison, and I want to talk about the themes because it's so powerful. And I think it's really important that especially a lot of young women hear this conversation. So let's start from the beginning of Allison. Can you describe one of the scariest moments in your

track and field career? Yeah, absolutely. In the TED Talk, and I talk about it often, one of the scariest moments in my career being a morning that I was training at 4 a.m. before the sun came out while it was still dark. And I was doing this because I was hiding my pregnancy. And it's really was such a difficult moment because I've always wanted to be a mother. And, you know, obviously it's a time that should be celebrated and happy and so special. And for me, it was the opposite. Like it was isolating. Like I was literally hiding the majority of the time. And I was doing that because I was scared of what my sponsor was going to say. And so it was such a difficult time period when I think back about it, just everything that happened and came. But to me, that was kind of like a time period where I was making a decision.

I was waiting to see if I was going to get an offer on paper so that I could disclose my pregnancy and hopefully move forward with my career. Can you explain to everyone listening, why has getting pregnant in track and field been called the kiss of death? Absolutely. So in track and field, our contracts are performance-based. So basically you go field, our contracts are performance based. So basically you go to the Olympics, you go to world championships, you get a medal, you get a bonus. But if you go and you don't, you get a reduction. And if you have a baby, there's nothing in place to protect you from that. So what had been happening in track and field was that women

would become pregnant and they would either get reduced all the way to making zero salary and be pushed out of the sport, or they would hide their pregnancy. They would, you know, secure a new contract, come back to top form and continue on. It was just a struggle, you know, and that's what I saw. I became a professional at 17 years old. And so I saw my friends, my teammates just struggle through motherhood. And it was heartbreaking to see these women that I loved and who were fierce competitors either be forced out of the sport, not be able to reach their full potential, or just not be able to do the thing they love because they had to, you know, choose between that and motherhood. It's so insane to hear it because i understand men will never understand this and it's like one of the greatest gifts in life is getting pregnant and being able to bring a life into

this world and to be penalized for it it just seems so so wrong and also something that maybe is supposed to be the happiest time of your life. I can't imagine the amount of emotions that you were going through where you almost are like, I guess you can tell me, but like, what were the feelings of like, not resenting your pregnancy, but like it, there is your career on the line at the same time of when you're supposed to love yourself and your body. Like, do you remember the emotions you felt? Yeah, I think there was a lot of feeling alone. You know, I was going through all of this stuff and I was like, man, I'm just, I'm in my house and I'm dealing with it all and just sadness. And then, you know, doubt, you know, well, maybe I think I got to a point where I was like, well,

maybe they're right. Maybe I can't do both and maybe my career is over. And so I think I went through like the full range of feeling all the things, but I knew that I wanted to be a mother. Like I was so excited and happy about that, but I was so disappointed with how everything was playing out. Totally.

Since opening up about your story, I'm curious, have women in other professions shared similar experiences with you and opened up to you about their fear of getting pregnant and maybe losing their career, being pushed out? Yeah. When I did come forward and share, I was blown away by the women who reached out to me. I think in one sense, it was really encouraging because I felt like, okay, I'm not alone. Like so many people see me in this and have gone through something similar. But then I was like, this is heartbreaking. How like so many people see me in this and have gone through something similar. But then

I was like, this is heartbreaking. How have so many women, how are they still experiencing this? How are they still scared to tell their employers that they're pregnant? Like it just, I just felt strongly that it should not still be this way. Right. It like opened up Pandora's box of like, in one way you're like, oh yeah, I have people that are experiencing it. I'm not alone. Oh shit. This is such a huge problem that needs to be addressed. So can you describe your experience in working with Nike and before you even got pregnant, how your partnership with them unraveled? Yeah. I mean, I had a great partnership with them. I was really proud of a lot of the work that we did. I mean, I was there for almost a decade and, you know, it was great. And I always thought that I was just going to end my career there. I thought, okay, cool. I'll sign

my last contract and, you know, sail off into the sunset. And then it all started, you know, after I come back from a world championship and it was actually the world championship where I became like the most decorated male or female athlete. And it was time to like renegotiate. And at that point, we started off at a place where it was 70% less than what I had been previously making. And that was, you know, before thoughts of even, you know, having a child, any of that, you know, was disclosed. And so already I felt, I think there was a sense of just like, oh man, like I'm a certain age or they just, you know, they feel like I've done it and that's it. And so then to move into all of the pregnancy stuff, that's when things really started to unravel. I shifted my attention from the financials of it all. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to ask for maternity protection,

just basically for time to recover from pregnancy. So I wouldn't experience those reductions and the other women wouldn't experience those. And I was told that basically I could have the time, but I don't think they were ready to set the precedent for all female athletes. And so that was just what wasn't okay with me. It was like, it can't be on a case by case basis because I could be treated one way because of, you know, my success. But if you don't tie it back legally to maternity and to, you know, returning to top form, then that's just not going to cut it. Holy shit. It's so wild also to hear you talk about like, I think women in general, and then we'll add the complexity of sports, but like we are still living in a world where

we're basically taught by a certain age, like we are not as worthy and we're not as desirable and our worth goes down and you, it's like, that's just not how it is for men. Like I feel like when men hit 30, it's like, ooh, we're like, we're not even in the prime yet, baby. And for women, it's like, oh God, like you hit 30. And so there's like a certain ageism that is surrounding us as women that I

can only imagine was so difficult to feel like, oh my God, I'm at the top of my game. I've never been more successful. And now I'm 70% less that they're offering you. Is the first thing all you could think of though is age? Like there was nothing else that would have indicated why it was a lower pay offer. Yeah. I mean, that's where my mind goes and I was just crushed because I think, you know, it's, you talk about family and like all of these things. And I felt like I always went above and beyond, you know, for the brand. And I understand like father time is undefeated and every athlete is going to reach that point. But I guess for me, it's hard to understand when your performance hasn't dropped, then it's hard to understand then why, you know, why are you being penalized for being a certain age?

I could understand if you are starting to decline and, you know, your results aren't the same, but that's what I struggled with. Yeah, I know I was an athlete myself in college. I played Division I soccer. And there is a system that is so in place that it is terrifying to speak out. And I feel like it's really scary because you feel yet again alone. I know that you wrote an op-ed in the New York Times describing your experience in working with Nike. Were you at all scared about what that would mean for your career to be going up against one of the biggest athletic brands? I was terrified. I was absolutely terrified.

I mean, I'm the type of person, like, I don't want to ruffle any feathers. Like, I'm a people pleaser. Like, that's, I've just always been that way. And so the thought of like speaking out, it just, it made me like beyond uncomfortable. And I think because it came on the heels. So this spanned, the renegotiation spanned a really long time. And I actually ended up having my daughter before that time. And so I think, you know, becoming a mother and the mother to a baby girl, I think that shifted everything. And there was just like this deep feeling within that was like, I have to do this. Like I have to speak up on behalf of my daughter so that she doesn't go through this fight in her generation. And there was just like a pulling that was so just not me that I had to, I just had to do it. So inspirational. And what was the response that you received from the op-ed? So I parted ways, you know, with Nike over that. And then after the op-ed about two weeks later, they changed their policy. So today they offer 18th months of protection for female athletes.

And so that was incredible. And other companies also stepped forward and they changed their policies and just support from so many women and men also who didn't realize this was a problem, didn't know it was an issue and stood with me. And then again, sharing of those stories, like just not feeling alone and then thinking like, okay, what more can we do here? How can we continue to push further? And I think in thinking about speaking out, I was like, okay, maybe change is going to come like 10 years down the line. I had no idea that this would be something that women would be able to benefit from right away. I mean, it is remarkable to think about how you had the experience with Nike. You were trying to push back.

You were trying to, at least in your head, you're like, if I'm going into negotiations, I'm just going to try to make sure like I have at least some safety if I do get pregnant. But they were only then going to allocate that to maybe you and not other people, maybe that weren't as successful and decorated in their career. And then for you to speak out and have an almost immediate change, which is like in my mind as a woman, it's like, there's the frustration that it even took you having to go public with it. It's like, why the fuck do I have to write a piece and publicly? And then you always wonder like, had I not gone public, they probably wouldn't have changed the rule because it's almost

like, oh, we're just going to do an overcorrection. So like politically, it looks correct. And we'll never know, obviously the intention, but it is frustrating that in moments where women are trying to at all, and I'm sure as a woman of color, it's like another step up of trying to garner any type of equality in something that you're so fucking talented in. And it takes you having to write a piece for them to change it. And then you didn't resign with Nike, right? I didn't. Yeah. And that I shared that frustration. I was just like, I'm not asking for anything different. I'm just doing it publicly. And so that was infuriating to me that it's like, oh gosh, like, yeah, I have to go public. I have to tell people about this. And also other teammates of mine had spoke up about their own experience as well. So yeah, I didn't, I didn't resign with them. I felt like I couldn't, like, I just felt like there feel like we as women have been made to feel like, oh, like we can't all just keep speaking up

and it seems like complaining and it's not. It's what's, it's just not right. Like there is no equality. We're still not feeling it. And so I think that it's really inspirational to hear you say like there was change from it, but I feel like any woman listening, if you're in a workplace or an environment where you feel isolated and alone, number one, you're definitely not alone because you're probably, there's probably more people that are experiencing what you're experiencing than a good experience.

But sometimes speaking out is what's necessary in order to enact change. Why do you think that women, this is more of like a holistic question, but like, why do you think women have historically had a hard time finding their worth and defining it? a literal monetary value to me. And that's hard. Like that's hard to like unpack. It's hard to like say like, no, I think that then you can start to like believe it. I'm like, okay, well maybe I'm not worth what I think I am. And I think that little bit of doubt creeps in and you can, you can run with it. And so I think when people, when the world is telling you all of these things, like it's really hard not to listen and to be firm and to believe in yourself. And I think that we all start out with that, right? We all start out with like this deep belief in whatever we're doing or whatever we're putting out into the world. But when people are like critical and they start to like tell you like, oh no, like you can't do that or you're not as good as you think you are. I think that's when it starts to change. And that's, I think that's hard for anybody to deal with. I think again, though, it's like inspiring of anyone that can come forward and share their experience. I do think it makes any minority feel less alone and it allows for there to be change and it allows for people also to be like, oh, if Allison did that, like I can do that now. I can speak up even if it's not in sports or whatever lane they're currently experiencing that in. I also think that like, it's fine. Like, I think looking

back, people have told me like, oh, that's so courageous or like, that's so brave. And I'm like, no, I was scared. Like I had doubts. And I think it's really good to like, remember that. Like, I don't think you ever get to this place where it's like, okay, everything is perfect. I'm going to speak out. Right, right. Like you're scared as shit. Like you're like shaking. You're questioning it.

You're wondering like, did I make the right decision? Like that I think is also great to normalize. Like this shit is so hard and you're going to doubt yourself tenfold. But the other option is staying silent and just sitting in the current state of you not trying to doubt yourself tenfold. But the other option is staying silent and just sitting in the current state of you not trying to do anything. Like at least, you know, you went out swinging and you went for it

and you were defending yourself and your pride. And if it didn't end up having, garnering like the positive result within ourselves, I think it's good that we start fighting back rather than being complacent. Yeah, I agree. I'm curious, after giving birth, did you feel pressure to return to your sport before you were ready?

I think even before I gave birth, I think like my mindset was like, okay, cool. I'm going to like have this baby and four weeks later, I'm going to be training and like back. And I, I compared myself to other women and I was like, okay, well she's done it. And this person has done it. And then when I found myself in that situation, I felt the pressure, but it wasn't even possible for me to, you know, to get back or to be doing any type of training. And so I think I was just even more crushed because I was like, okay, I can't I don't know. Maybe I'm not going to be able to come back to this thing that I love. And my attention was fully on just my daughter.

You know, I'm in the NICU. She's literally, you know, fighting for her life. And so it was just a whole turn of events. How from that experience did your mentality around your career change if it changed at all? Yeah, I think I just learned I was so strong, like much stronger than I gave myself credit for before. And as I like slowly picked up the pieces, you know, and as my daughter healed, as I healed, I just slowly came back to it. And I think I learned to give myself grace. And that's something I've never done before. Like I've just, I've always been like super critical of myself.

Like just, you know, just never being kind to myself. And I had to, I was forced into it. I didn't do it like willingly, but was forced into like slowing down and not comparing myself to anybody else and saying like, this is my path. It's not what I intended it to be, but it's what I was dealt and I have to like move with it. So I think my motivation just grew because it was like coming off the adversity of, you know, feeling like people didn't believe in me and then dealing with this. It was just like, I know I can make it back. And I'm really also fired up to show my

daughter, you know, what that looks like. I also love you're so modest. I, when I was researching, it's like you made it back to the Olympics two years after giving birth and you won a gold and a bronze and became the most decorated track and field athlete of all time

all while your daughter was watching you. And it's like thinking back to the beginning of our conversation where it's like 70% pay cut, like it's going to be as big now because you're getting older. Like, oh, you're going to go on maternity leave. Like people looking at you, not knowing if you'd come back and it's like, oh, watch me, watch me do it. It's so baller. How have you personally changed since becoming a mom? Oh, I think I've changed in so many ways. I mean, and then to your point, like I just, I also just love when somebody tells me I can't do something

because I'm like, oh, okay. Like it is on, like we're about to do this. So I always get fired up. But I think becoming a mom has changed me in like just so many different ways. I think I'm learning so much. I'm, I had to just stop being like so rigid with like schedule and just, you know, I think I'm just enjoying as well, like being present. I think before I was always like 10 steps ahead, like thinking about the next thing and always like just, and it's allowed me to just slow down and just be thankful for so much. And now I get to like watch this little person grow and see her personality and just all of it. So good. Obviously you standing up for yourself and not realigning with Nike. What types of brands and partnerships do you align yourself with now?

Yeah, so now I just, I've made a commitment to myself. Like I'm only gonna do, have partnerships that are authentic, that I fully believe in and that I can be proud of. Like that internally, the marketing is matching up with what's happening inside the company. And so I signed with Athleta after that for my apparel sponsor. And it's been an amazing partnership. They're 97% female, female led, and they gave me a true seat at the table. And I always like refer to them now as my big sister, because I just, I felt so empowered there and I've learned so much and I've been able to have such a voice and they've really kind of turned

the model of sponsorship on its head for female athletes and say, like, we're going to take a holistic approach. And they see me as an athlete, but also as a mother and support the advocacy work that I do. So I love that. And then all of this led to me starting my own brand, which I'm super proud of. And, you know, I'm able to kind of take the learnings and do things a different way. I think it's so incredible. What's a hope that you have now for how motherhood and parenting are viewed within the workplace? I mean, my hope is that no other woman has fear around starting a family,

that they don't feel that they have a choice in it, that they feel like, you know, if they want to be a mother, then amazing. They can do it now. They can do it later. That they have a choice in it, that they feel like, you know, if they want to be a mother, then amazing. They can do it now. They can do it later. That it's that they have agency over that instead of feeling like you have to wait to accomplish a certain thing in order to even explore it. And I hope that my daughter never has those thoughts, whatever her decision might be. I hope that she can just fully own that and live that. Your story is so inspiring. And I really appreciate you coming on because I think the goal always, whenever I talk to people is like, we may not have similar

experiences that we can be like, oh yeah, like I'm an athlete. Like there may be some women listening being like, I have, I don't run. Okay. I don't run the house in. I don't even like to work out. That's okay. It's really more about the themes of like resilience and knowing your worth and knowing when to fight for something that truly means so much to you. But just because of the society we live in doesn't mean that there can't be movement. It doesn't mean there can't be change. It doesn't mean that we can't progress in some capacity, but it does start with believing in ourselves, which is again, back to our conversation,

really fucking hard sometimes because people around us telling us we can't do it. I think, I mean, I've always thought about like, oh, if I want to have children, like I'm so scared, like what will that do to my career? And I think that mentality first has to change within ourselves of like, don't be scared. And I appreciate what you're saying. Like your goal is to make sure that no woman is afraid to want to start a family because that's just not how we should view things. Yeah, absolutely. I think you have to be willing to like bet on yourself as well, you know, and we should like we know what we're capable of and we need that confidence and we got to move forward with it. Totally. Where can my listeners

go if they want to hear more from you? You're so inspiring. You are a great public speaker. Where can we listen to you? Yeah. So, I mean, you can follow me across socials. I'm just Alison Felix. My brand is Seish. We make footwear for the female foot. And so completely designed to fit the female foot. And through this whole experience, I learned that shoes haven't been made for women. And when I was left without a footwear sponsor, I decided to do myself. And so you can listen to Mountaintop Conversations, the podcast that we have, our brand has, and just kind of follow along on the journey. It's been really cool to pivot from this moment that was crushing to then my own lane of starting this company and being

able to just say women deserve better and to put that in the world. Allison, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. My listeners are going to geek over this conversation. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Outro Music