Call Me Back - with Dan Senor - John Fetterman's Israel

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Watch Call me Back on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CallMeBackPodcastTo contact us, sign up for updates, and access transcripts, visit: https://arkmedia.org/Dan on X: https://x.com/dansenorDan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dansenorAn entire nation mourned yesterday as Shiri, Ariel and Kfir Bibas were laid to rest, following a procession through streets of Israel that were lined with thousands of Israelis. As Yarden Bibas delivered eulogies for his wife and children who were murdered by terrorists in Gaza, we were all reminded of the millions of people around the world who celebrated or justified the attacks that shattered their lives and so many others. While much of that moral confusion has emanated from the Left of the political spectrum, the courage and moral conviction of one leader on the Left has stood out. Over the past 16 months, Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman has been one of the staunchest supporters of Israel’s war against Hamas. Fetterman, a Democrat who is not Jewish, has been more outspoken in his support for Israel than most of his Jewish colleagues. As a result, Fetterman has gone from being a hero of the Left to becoming a lightning rod for many progressives. And yet, he has not backed down from the fight he perceives as a decisive turning point for his party, and a test for whether or not it will continue to stand for true liberal values. John Fetterman, Senator and former Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania, joined us to discuss his controversial stance on an issue that has divided the Democratic party, and what the future holds for his party. CREDITS:ILAN BENATAR - Producer & EditorMARTIN HUERGO - Additional EditingSTAV SLAMA - Director of Operations GABE SILVERSTEIN - Research YUVAL SEMO - Music Composer

I got my graduate degree at Harvard, and then immediately, like the shocking, it was like the day after, you know, the place just like you had about 30 different groups and they had this, this letter and essentially is like, well, Israel deserved this and that thing like, wow, that's crazy. That kind of response. I'm like, some people in my party were calling for a ceasefire and all that stuff. I'm like, after what? After what?

That's outrageous. I'm like, no, of course not. For me, I committed to like, I'm willing to be like the last man standing in my party that's ever going to be with no conditions till the end until Hamas is effectively neutralized. It's 2 30 p.m. on Monday, February 24th here in Washington, D.C. It is 9 30 p.m. on Monday, February 24th in Israel. For much of his political career, Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman was a darling or champion of the left.

Senator Fetterman, in his traditional sweat suit, hoodie and shorts, became an instant icon of the Democratic Party and a stalwart of its resistance, in some respects, to President Trump's first term. All of that seems to have changed, or a lot of it, on the day that changed much of our lives and the world in which we once lived, October 7th, 2023. Senator Federman has been one of the staunchest supporters of Israel in its defensive war against Hamas. In fact, he keeps posters of the Israeli hostages in his office since the earliest days of the

war. Senator Fetterman, who is not Jewish, has been more supportive of Israel over the past 16 months than many of his Jewish colleagues on Capitol Hill. He has and continues to pay a price for his position on Israel, but he has not backed down. In fact, he has doubled down on his support for Israel, often criticizing his own party for using the kind of rhetoric and taking the kinds of political stances that he has called, and I quote here, toxic to voters.

And so we were very excited to find out that Senator Federman was open to coming on Call Me Back to discuss all of this. With us today from a studio in Washington, D.C., is Senator Federman, the former mayor of Braddock, Pennsylvania, just outside Pittsburgh, from 2006 to 2019, Senator Federman served as Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania from 2019 to 2023. During that time, while running for the US Senate in 2022, he overcame a stroke and at the same time flipped a Republican-held Senate seat for the Democrats. Senator Federman, welcome to the Call Me Back podcast. Thanks for doing this.

Hey, thank you for having me here. We have a global audience and I've gotten to know you and I think many of our listeners have gotten to know you or followed you, but we also have an audience, as I said, around the world who don't know much about you, other than what they've learned about you since October 7th. So we're gonna get to October 7th, but I wanna start at the beginning, so to speak. Can you talk a little bit about where you grew up and the kind of environment you grew up in

and just get a sense of what shaped you? Yeah, well, because of that kind of an audience, I would describe it as like I'm a Pennsylvania guy. And I was technically born in Redding, Pennsylvania, which is like an industrial city in the eastern part of Pennsylvania. And now probably that's really notable now because Taylor Swift and I were born in the same hospital.

So and all of my family was from Berks County, which that's part of a very conservative part of Pennsylvania, always has been and still is. And then I moved to York County, which is kind of South Central Pennsylvania, another kind of a conservative part. And my family was all Republicans. To my knowledge, I think I'm essentially the only Democrat in my family. So I grew up, and that was pretty regular to be around people and have some kinds of political views.

And I never saw them as like the enemy or abhorrent or those kinds of things. People all just got along and we never had those big you know arguments on like Thanksgiving kind of things. So for me I tried to explain to people especially during an elections and the three cycles that I've been in in Pennsylvania how the intensity and the appeal that Trump has trying to explain and how that has landed with Republicans. For some people that live and grew up in like deep blue kinds of things might think that's weird.

I can't explain that or I'm not really sure if that's true. And I'm like, it absolutely is. And if anything, you're probably wrong if you think, if you're underestimating that kinds of intensity. I came up in that same cycle as Trump did. My first statewide race was in 2015-16. And I ran for the Senate. And of course I didn't win, but I did.

You ran in the Democratic primary, lost in the primary. Yeah, I did. But the person that I was running against largely, I always felt and believed that she was never going to be able to carry Pennsylvania. And it turns out she didn't. But I tried to warn, and I became a surrogate for the Clinton campaign

in Western Pennsylvania. And I tried to warn them like, hey, Trump has connected in a way. And everybody assumed that it was gonna be easy peasy, and then after that infamous grabbing the, you know, and all that, well that's supposed to be the end of him for sure. And I'm like, and I was actually in,

I was in the audience for that first debate, and very clearly by any kind of metrics, Clinton won. But that really didn't matter because he had that kind of a connection and that kind of intensity. And that's why he carried Pennsylvania. And I've been warning for those those three cycles. So like growing up through a lot of that and witnessing and seeing it day in and day out, trying to, kind of like a translation to a lot of blue audiences, you know, why that happened.

When you were growing up, who were the public figures you admired? Who you looked up to, who you, as you would later choose a career in public service, thought to model yourself after? I mean, for me personally, it's always been about my father, too. Who's a Republican? Oh yeah, the lifelong, lifelong. The running joke during the campaign, I'd say, I'm going to be the first Democrat that my parents are ever going to vote for.

And I'm like, I hope, I hope, at least, kind of thing. So for me, and my life started, I was an unplanned and in some sense kind of an unwanted kind of pregnancy. And they were just a teenager, teenagers, 19. And then my parents decided to get married. And after 55 years, they're still actually, they just had their 56. They're still together.

So he worked at a grocery store and helped get his college degree. And we started out in a very, very kind of like a lower rung. And that's how things evolved. At what point did you start to think about career commitment to public service, to politics, to elected office? I got lucky. My life could have turned into a different direction, but that really kind of changed. I was finishing up, coming up on now that would have been 32 years ago, business school,

and my best friend at the time was killed in a car accident on his way home to my house, and that really kind of rocked my world there. For the first time, I had that kind of death, where I'm like, this idea that you could be living your last 15 minutes of your life, and had no idea that was coming in. And then that really, I just started to reflect in what I want. So I joined Big Brothers Big Sisters. And I was paired with a young boy, he was an AIDS orphan. Well, his father had died from AIDS, and his mother was in full-blown AIDS, and that's when I met her. And that was in 1994, so that was a death sentence.

And I'm embarrassed in retrospect to even almost wondering, you know, when I first met her, I mean, she was skeletal. And if you ever remember those Benetton ads, those kind of shocking ones, that's exactly what that was. And then I realized, I'm like, my God, how can two people have such divergent kinds of, you know, I was born into a situation and I ended up and I was able to get education and I had that kind of security and he before his ninth birthday, both of his parents died from AIDS and that really after those kinds

of back to back and I decided I wanted to go into my life, maybe hey, if I could make things a little better, a little different, and rather than just pursuing like more of a traditional path. Was it ever a question for you when you were growing up or when you were choosing a career in public service, what political party you would join? Actually, it really wasn't a thing,

and I never fully expected I'd end up in politics, honestly. In fact, at first I became more of what I would describe as almost like a social worker. And then I started a small program helping young people get their GED and getting their first job, even something simple like a driving license. People can't really realize some of those very kind of barriers.

For some people, they grew up in opportunities that they liked, that I had. And then in... Wow, that's crazy. Twenty years ago, literally, that I decided I'm like, hey, maybe if I could run for mayor. And that was kind of like kind of strange that a young white guy in a overwhelmingly black community running for mayor, but I was able to kind of win by one vote, just one vote. And that was the start of my political career just because of that one vote.

So it might be a cliche to say that, but it's true that, you know, every vote does matter because without one fewer vote, and I wouldn't be in this room right now today having that conversation. And Braddock, Pennsylvania, what is it, like a population of 1700 people? Yeah, well, originally it was like a powerhouse for, you know, like a lot of people might be following the US Steel drama. Well, that's where Carnegie started his whole empire. And in my home, it's in a former abandoned car dealership. It's directly across the street from the plant.

That's where it started. And I'd like to remind people, that was part of, at the time, the original Silicon Valley, and wealth and power and the kind of industrial might that remade our entire society here. And then after all of that, that massive kinds of industrialization and suburbanizing and a lot of white flight, that whole issue is in a tore it apart and it lost 90% of its population. It went from an over 20,000 town. It had the kind of urban density similar to Brooklyn. And now it was lost with about 2,500 people when I ran for mayor. So it's a small

mayor one, and that was never a traditional path to higher office. And I never expect that it was. For me, it was just I was a social worker just helping people get their GED and those things. So I wanna fast forward to, you're running for Lieutenant Governor in 2018. You're the Democratic nominee. It's your second run for statewide office, but now you've won the nomination. You've won the Democratic primary.

And I'll remind our listeners and viewers, it was the same year that the mass killing at the Tree of Life Synagogue in the Pittsburgh area in Squirrel Hill took place, the largest violent, anti-Semitic attack, I think, in American history. Shocking. Eleven people killed? Oh, well, let me describe the circumstances. I was at towards the end of the campaign and I was running with with Tom Wolfe and

who's the governor yeah who is the governor and friends called me and they live you know really across the street of of the tree of life and they're like hey there's like a mass shooting, and two people, someone is shooting and gunning down people in the synagogue, and the first thing I did was I called Jeff Bardoes. Okay, so let's spend a minute on, so Jeff Bardoes, who's a friend of mine,

who was the Republican nominee for governor. Exactly. You're running head to head against Jeff Bardoes in a competitive race. Correct, yeah. And the Tree of Life shooting happens and he's one of, if not the first person you call. In addition to being the Republican nominee, he's a proud member of the Jewish community. Yeah. And I said, Jeff, I'm sorry.

And maybe you're not aware, but it seems that there is a mass shooting situation and they are targeting Jews and they are mowing people down in a prominent synagogue in Squirrel Hill. And Squirrel Hill is the center of the Jewish community in Pittsburgh. I mean, it's incredibly vibrant. And I'm like, look, I'm not campaigning and I'm suspending my campaign. I'm not doing anything. I'm just getting back.

And I did. And then it's almost four and a half hour drive, and then I attended that candlelight vigil there in the middle of Squirrel Hill, and this idea that somebody could show up with a rifle and start mowing people down, elderly people in the house of their worship. So that was really stark, and then that was kind of like the start of a real friendship with Jeff Bardo's, and even though technically we're running against each other and We're in a different party, but I said to him like Jeff. I'm so sorry that there's For your community. I mean, I'm not I'm not a member of that community

So I can't imagine what that really feels like but for me that just was it rocked my world and that's kind of how it was Start of that was that the first time that the Jewish community, the threats against the Jewish community first you know kind of became obvious to you or got on your radar where you're like you know Well I mean of course I never spoke about anti-Semitism and those things because I'm like that would be if anything that would be disrespectful and I can't speak to that experience because I haven't lived that. But I mean, I was aware of it and I've seen what it might happen,

but it just was brought front and center. And then the whole thing got blown apart after 10-7. And then when I was running for the second time, I ran for the Senate. I did- 2022. Yeah, well, technically this would have been in 21. And I did an interview and I said, look, now I really have the kind of traditional kinds

of democratic opinions on the situation with Israel and Gaza and things. But I said, but I still say, you know, when the shit hits the fan, I'm going to go in on Israel. So that I'm very clear. OK, so I want to get to October 7th in a moment before I do. I do want to talk about your run for the Senate in 2022, because I think most people following your race, most political journalists would have categorized you as like a liberal progressive type.

I mean, just whether you go by those terms or not, that's how you were characterized. So that was notable, just your Senate run and how you ran. It was also quite noteworthy because you suffered a stroke during your Senate run. So can you talk a little bit about that? And maybe you have this device here. I think it's important for our listeners and viewers to know know not only do you suffer the stroke, but you still use this device that helps you. So just can you talk about what you went through in 2022 and

how you cope now as a senator? Yeah, sure. Let me unpack some of that. You know, I really ran in that second cycle. I'm like, really, I haven't stopped being a progressive progressive a lot of the kind of the extreme things that that emerged over it Changed and I'm like, hey, I really kind of view myself as more of like a traditional kind of Democrat and now coming up that would be three years ago in May that I had a stroke and That was this for the second time in my life where I was confronted with this idea. I had no time when I woke up that morning that I have 15 minutes left that I might live.

And then when it hit, I wasn't even aware at that time. My wife pointed out, hey, you're having a stroke. And I denied. I'm like, no, I'm fine. Because I wanted to head to a campaign event in Lancaster. And they're like, no, no, they rushed me to the hospital. But I tried to maintain them like I'm fine, I got to get there. And that stroke nearly took my life.

And I'm so grateful at that time because I made an incredible kind of recovery. And the one lingering issue from that was sometimes processing language when I'm doing very precise conversations like this. I use that this is just captioning, and I wouldn't really, respectfully, I wouldn't describe it as a device, but this is just kind of like an Android iPad.

It's an iPad. It's literally an iPad for those who are listening. A hundred bucks, I think. And it has the thing of captioning. It's literally an iPad for those who are listening. A hundred bucks, I think. And it has the thing of captioning. It's just transcribing for you what we're talking about, and so you can read it while you're listening. Exactly. So usually conversationally and things,

I can process and hear things. So I can't, I wouldn't describe myself as deaf, but in some way, it's some lingering issues of processing language and very more kinds of precise situations like this. I use captioning to make sure I'm able to respond in a way no different than I'm doing right now. And then you're in the Senate, and then the Senate physician, I think, diagnosed you as

an after effect of the stroke with depression. Well, yeah, just that was the biggest race in that cycle and unlimited money and just unloaded in a way, like I would describe that as like the blowtorch, just torn apart, torn apart. And then I did the really dumb mistake of after I won, I did like a post-Morton. I looked online some of this stuff.

And it wasn't like the thing said. It was just the volume. And just where's this mass kind of venom? And like for a stranger, I've never done anything wrong. That was part of it. And at that point, and that's depression. And I realized and I knew that I need help because, and that's why I've been having that public conversation about

depression. I reached a point where I have to be really more honest about self-harm because I thought, well, of course, depression is probably not going to be a big political winner. But then if I really have to be honest, it's like having that as well, too, because there is a lot of people that might be in that way. And over the course of the election, I lost two of my friends after depression. And one had a stroke, too, and another one one had a heart attack and they both had young children.

And it was overwhelming to me. And it's not because they failed or I was stronger and I didn't succumb, but I just was able to find or got the appropriate help, whatever. And I think I've at that point, I was really the first elected official to ever describe self-harm. And then Joe Biden actually mentioned that in a conversation that he had a point in his life too. He considered that. So it's important to have that conversation because I want people, anyone that listens, hey, whatever your journey will be, but I promise you, you have to promise just,

I keep it simple because I'm not a professional in that way. But I'm saying just stay in that game. Stay in the game because you will get better because two years later, that's absolutely the truth. So that's been part of the journey. And if it's not something I would have chosen, but since that happened, I paying it forward that I survived and I was able to recover. And I just beg people, like, look, if you allow those kinds of conversations to continue with yourself with depression, and that becomes very dangerous and then might end in a way that you can't come back from. Let's now fast forward to October 7th.

And I often ask many of our first time guests a question I will ask you, which is, do you remember where you were as you were learning about the catastrophe of October 7th? Yeah, no. What was going on? I started getting these calls and hearing out all like this, violence and the depravity and the things that were emerging from it

And I mean if anyone's that seen that video and that they end like you mean the 47 minute video Have you seen it? Oh, yeah No, of course and and you know other things that were at the time might have been considered classified at the time but but my point and the fact that they filmed this and at the time, but my point, and the fact that they filmed this, and some of the transcriptions where some of those intercepted kinds of conversations, and they're cheering it, and they're calling up their family, like, hey, look, we just killed three Jews, or whatever, and what they've done, and just the kinds of, just the barbarism and the cruelty and that was not just you know like that wasn't terrorism.

That was really for me I described that as a war on civilization and that really kind of just shifted immediately for you know for me and that's like hey I'm going to be a committed voice for Israel and the Jewish community because after that, things aren't ever going to be the same. And for the largest kinds of an attack and how personal and vicious that was since the Holocaust. For me, it's like, what if they did that to my family? You know, like if you had people barging into my home and raped my daughter and my wife and shot them in their heads or tortured it, or they made my children watch these kinds,

like the kinds of, like where does that come from? Where does that kinds of evil and depravity come from? And it's like, what if that was me? And I'm like, I would never negotiate with that kinds of evil and depravity come from. And it's like, what if that was me? And I'm like, I would never, I would never negotiate with that kinds of evil. And I would never want that for anyone else. And now at that point, you will never, you can never allow that kinds of a force and that kinds of evil survive. And absolutely. I made that statement, like whatever they need, military, financial or intelligent-wise.

Like I'm always going to support that and vote for those things. OK. But that position that you just articulated just now, meaning you your reaction was unconditional support for Israel. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Unconditional. That position was not shared by some, not all, but some in your Democratic Party, and there was this progressive group, the squad, whatever you want to call them, who- Some people, almost immediately, within the first couple of weeks,

well, and also, let me just speak to that. I mean, I got my graduate degree at Harvard, and then immediately, the shocking, it was like the day after, the place just like you had about 30 different groups and they had this letter and essentially it's like, well, Israel deserved this and that thing. Like, wow, that's crazy. That kind of response.

I'm like, oh my God. And some people in my party were calling for a ceasefire and all that stuff. I'm like, after what? After what? That's outrageous. I'm like, no, of course not. Of course not. And then for me, I committed to like, I'm willing to be like the last man standing in my party that's ever going to be with no conditions till the end until Hamas is effectively neutralized. It was pretty kind of clear that the Democratic Party felt like they had to criticize or react in that.

And for me, I guess some people decided, like, let's go after, you know, Netanyahu or the leader. And I'm like, absolutely, I'm never gonna sign on for that. This is the Democratic leader of our ally. And now if you're going to criticize or go after any side, it should be against Hamas. And whether you might think someone is a bad person or a terrible leader, whatever that

is, well, he is the leader that Israel decided on, and that's our ally. And when you consider what the alternative is in the war, Adam, there's absolutely, I'm ever going to go attack the democratic leader of our ally in the middle of an existential war. You were very outspoken. There was a vote. I can't remember the exact date, but there was a vote on continued funding for various parts of Israel's defenses, the funding for Iron Dome. Yeah, Iron Dome. We actually, members of my party, voting against Iron Dome and those things. That whole BDS and the Iron Dome and all those kinds of voting, what is wrong with you?

These are defensive and going after that. That was like that emerging paradox where the people of the most progressive elements of my party, the only nation in that region that are projecting in, and those are the kinds of values, that's Israel. And it's like such a paradox. That's the kind of places that have the values that you espouse and you live in our nation. Were you ever pressured by leaders of the Democratic Party

to just quiet down? You were very outspoken early on. I remember seeing you at the big, big demonstration on the mall a month or so after October 7th where you were standing there with the Israeli flag wrapped around you. It was quite moving, I must say. Hundreds of thousands of people, mostly Jews,

and there you were standing there with the Israeli flag. Very outspoken, very critical of critics of Israel, including critical of Democratic critics of Israel. Did anyone ever tell you, hey, Senator, hike down? Not expressly sitting down and say, but I've had protesters start showing up immediately at my office and then inevitably at my home. And I've said, look, I'm sorry. I realize I'm going to be an outlier and I refuse to pander to that. I understand there's an election happening and they try to run between the raindrops and try to have it both ways.

I'm like, I'm never going to pander to that dearborn kinds of audience. And if you are willing to vote for the other side, well, you're probably not going to enjoy that outcome. And then it turns out that happened. So for me, it's not about the election. It's about what's the right side. And I'm going to follow Israel through that. And I have disagreed publicly, even the president at that time.

I never supported this idea of holding back on the largest munitions of that, the 2,000 pound bombs and those things. It's like whatever they need to eradicate Hamas. And people forget or they try to ignore that this is, and the misery and the civilian death was designed by Hamas. They've embedded themselves and they hide in the schools or the hospitals. And I will never forget, and this was shortly after, at that hospital, and they claimed that a rocket hit. And they all announced that 500 people were killed, and that was an Israeli rocket, and Israel intercepted the radio where it was one of their own rockets. And I'm like,

there's no way that was going to kill 500 people. That's impossible. Meaning it was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad's rocket. Exactly. That's the point. And it's like, and it's like people started attacking Israel and they said, that is not us. That was them. You know, it's a thousand people, you know, metaphorically reacted, but only one just was like, by the way, that wasn't true. And that was part of the recurring things that there was going to be, you know, a famine. And they have cheapened words in our language. One of them is genocide. Genocide. Describing that Israel was

engaging in genocide, I'm like, that is factually, it's just not true. But if you really are engaging in a genocide, why are you telling people, you've got to evacuate? Here's where I'm going to strike. How many societies that are engaging in a genocide are facilitating vaccination programs for their children? Israel was forced to conduct a war through these civilians and also had to make sure that they get the kinds of food and other kinds of support through this, through constant criticism for what they've done and the thing that happened. Just whatever you describe that as blood liable, whatever, just the kinds of lies that just

got repeated in the media and it's just not true. And I've said this publicly, you are working against peace and teaching Hamas knowing that, hey, this kinds of messaging on social media has, and they use those kinds of words like colonizing or this, you know, well there must be an oppressor and there must be the oppressed and created those really kinds of false constructs. You're saying all these things and you were saying these things as events were unfolding. There were leaders of your own party that were pressuring you. You even had members of your own Senate staff who, according to public reports, resigned

over the position you had taken. At any point, I'm just trying to get a sense, because at some point, does it start to hurt? Like these are people who are working for you, these are people who signed up to work for you, and they felt so strongly that you were like way out there on this issue. By the way, most Americans probably don't think

you're way out there. They think your position is very reasonable. But I'm just saying, did at some point any of this give you pause? Well, for me, it came from a very simple commitment. It's like Israel and the Jewish community deserves at least one consistent voice through this, at least from the Democratic Party. But people forget that the Jewish community is largely a Democratic part of our base.

And now, how can you have that party turn their back, but especially from the moral clarity for me? When people ask me that question, I'm like, for me, it was always easy, because it's always been that moral clarity. Can you just imagine if Israel was pushed into a ceasefire in last May or June? And can you imagine if people like Sinwar and Amas would still be largely functional? And Hezbollah was described, all the so-called experts

described that as like they were kind of like the ultimate badass. Think of the things that they did and it was magnificent that Israel finally called bullshit on those plays on those kinds of organizations. And then after those beeper after the beepers and I'm like I respond by saying I'm like oh I love it. People would say are you sure really you know whatever I'm, oh, I love it. People would say, are you sure, really? You know, whatever. I'm like, oh yeah, I love it 100%.

Because for me, that's the ultimate micro-targeting. You know, like if you want to criticize Israel having to use those kinds of large ammunitions, you know, the only people that have beepers, well, they're terrorists. And the ones that, it's like, if you have a beeper and that goes boom and you get taken out, that is in my description, that's the most effective way to get in in their head

and also to neutralize some of their people in ways to minimize all the collateral damage as well too. And now, Esbala was exposed as really kind of largely a paper tiger, and I fully support, I also loved for them systematically eliminating the leadership. Aaron Powell Can you talk in January of 24, you had pressure all this time from October to through now, you get pressure from the Democratic Party, you have staff members that resigned because of your positions on this issue And in January 24 you had this protest they showed up at your home Oh, right right in Braddock and can you describe that scene and how you responded? Yeah

Well, we you know, we they could see it online and there was probably Maybe 50 to 75 people and they were yelling and screaming, you know, genocide, genocide, genocide. Our 10-year-old was home at the time. And I live in a building where I was able to get up on the roof and I was kind of listening to it. And I was waiting until it really got ugly and whatever. And then I just held up the Israeli flag. And to me, I don't know why that's controversial to just be

like, hey, it's just the Israeli flag. But some people might have saw that as provocative or aggression. It's like, no, that's just saying, you've made your statement. You have these kinds of things. That's my statement. I'm like, hey, I'm here for standing with Israel.

I don't know why. I don't show up at your house, you know, with flags and start yelling and accusing you of things. But you have done that. You've made your statement. I'm making mine. And that's part of that ongoing dialogue where I'm like, look, you know, the death of innocent Palestinians and children, I mean, that's absolutely a tragedy.

But I think perhaps the difference between you and I are is that you might blame those things on Israel, but for me, I blame Hamas and I blame Iran. And that's kind of like a fundamental difference where, you know, like why can you deny the responsibility with the people that are doing these terrible things and the kind of nations that are financing all of it. Do you ever try to just explain to, I mean, I don't know how much you can actually have

a dialogue with these protesters, but colleagues of yours, friends on the left. It's hard to, it's hard to because it's immediately like it's yelling and you know, and they show up and then there's always like the phone like they start filming it and they tried everything to get on like these silly Videos to go viral just for for video online, but many of these activists claim to support Women's rights gay rights freedom of religion if you if you actually want to be on the side of these liberal values You should be for Israel. I agree like we've all seen those signs where it's like, queers for Palestine. Like, can you just imagine?

Yeah, I agree. It's almost like something out of like a Portlandia, you know, that show like kind of a thing. And it's like if you are a member of that community, and you show up in Gaza or in some of those nations, they're going to give you a choice. It's like, you can pick the building that we're going to throw you on the top of. And then after I visited Israel, you could witness it that people that were gay, they could walk around and they could, they could be free and just hold hands and they can be affectionate with members of the same sex.

It's like, that's where the values that you claim to really, to live by. And it's like, that's where it's actually in Israel. And that's what's part of why I think Israel is miraculous in the middle of all of it. You know, they they produce the kind of a society that has the values that people, especially of the Democratic Party, would we believe we would define that as the most kind of important things. Many have looked at you since the election of 2024 as potentially a model for how Democrats could reemerge and appeal to the center of the political spectrum. There's some things that I think transcends party. And for me, a situation like what happened after 10-7, anyone that has studied history,

if you happen again and again and again, nations and organizations attack Israel, they lose, and then they lose more freedom, they lose lower quality of their lives and more land. And it's like, just when can you decide and understand, stop attacking Israel and build your own nation rather than trying to destroy theirs? And now I've done events in that election you referenced with Bill Clinton. And now remember what they were offered. Meaning what they were offered in 2000 when President Clinton was president and the Israeli government and the leader of the Palestinians, Yasser Arafat, went to Camp David and they

were offered a Palestinian state. 96%, 96%. And you can pick which 4%. You get the capital of East Jerusalem and all this and they're like, no, no, no, no. And now it's like, you know, you have a pension. If you end up in prison or killed, while we were arrested or killed, you know, killing Jews and creating that kind of terror,

trying to pretend that this is not the same. This is not the same. You know, there are many people who, as I said, they look at you as potentially a model of how the Democrats could reemerge. And at the same time, the issues we're talking about today, right now, are treated as, quote unquote, a issue of concern to the Jewish community. And I think something you pointed out to me in a previous conversation we've had where you said you'll take your position on Israel and you'll let your opponents and critics

take their position on Israel. And you said, and let's both go debate it in the center of Scranton, Pennsylvania, which is let's just say not a big Jewish community. You'll go in the heart of Scranton, Pennsylvania. We'll stand in the middle and we'll debate and we'll see where regular voters from Scranton, Pennsylvania stand. Meaning, I think what you're saying is this is not just a Jewish community issue. This is a proxy for something much bigger.

I agree. It is. It's just kind of like, whose side are you on? People that rape and torture young girls and women, who that tie families together and they set them on fire. And they filmed that terrible things. They are proud of those things. And the history when they don't want peace, if you look at their whole charter, the front

and center, it's like we have to destroy Israel. The rampant anti-Semitism that flood the campuses too, saying things like, you know, from the river to the sea thing, everyone understands what that is. I mean, that's Hamas's jingle. And, you know, and they say, well, no, that's about universal human rights or whatever.

It's like, oh, that's bullshit. You and I know what that means. And it's like, at least have the character to stand by that kinds of eradicating Israel. And that's kind of like the rot that I described in my party, and definitely in some of the elite kinds of institutions, not similar, similar just like the one I graduated from. And I did not recognize the campus that I graduated at that time, a quarter of a century ago. And I had Republican members of the faculty, even people like Mickey Edwards and Alan Simpson and David Gergen and all of them.

And that wasn't controversial in that. But now I can't even imagine one of the co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, we gotta run that guy out of town with a rail and those things, and I can't imagine what kind of real dialogue's happening if you turn it into like a bubble, you know, the whole, the monoculture, and that really kind of fomented

all of this intensely anti-Israel. I want to talk about a couple of issues just before we wrap up that have been in the news, that you have been outspoken on or an outlier on. One of them is the effort in the Senate to sanction the International Criminal Court. It turned out I was the only Democrat to vote. You're the only Democrat to vote with the Republicans on that bill. Why did you think taking that position was so important? Because I'm sure you took a lot of heat for it.

Because I've always like, I'm going to follow Israel. It's like Israel fully understands the stakes and that's about their own survival. And like when you have an organization that has equivocated, you know, the leaders of Hamas and the democratic leader in a just war, that's repugnant. And now even IDF soldiers have to be concerned or they're gonna get arrested in some of these member nations.

It's absolutely, I reject that in the strongest way. And for me, we had the opportunity when we were in the majority to do it right, and they were unwilling to do that. I hope that it wasn't just the kind of pander or afraid of like from an election. Well, you know, so now we have the opportunity and I'm going to sign, I'm going to vote for that. I'm going to sign on. And I did that and it was disappointing being the only member in my party.

For me, that's right or wrong, and there isn't a lot of nuance when you are torturing and murdering innocent civilians and the way and the kind of conditions. Let's not ever forget that has happened and why we've arrived at this place right now. So there was a resolution addressing the two state solution. You were one of two Democrats to vote opposite the rest of your party on it. And then you've been supportive of some of the things President Trump has been saying about Gaza and what to do with Gaza going forward. So what's that about?

Yeah, no, no, I said that. It's like for me, that wasn't necessary, that wasn't serious. That was just kind of like, for lack of a better term, that's almost kind of like a shock or a bluff to the system. Basically, it's daring them. It's like either, you know, like either you and these region, these nations take responsibility.

It's like you do your job and you, like you better figure out a better option because nobody Nobody actually wants to own this We just want them to just figure out on building their own nation and not stop attacking Israel And we can all move on after that so and I think you've noticed after that kind of a shock People now all of these nations are meeting together and saying well, hey, where's the better idea? people now all of these nations are meeting together and saying, well, hey, where's the better idea? Like, hey, I'm all about that. So like, I would never ever support having American soldiers or that kinds of thing. I don't think anyone honestly wants to own Gaza. That's absurd.

What actually is truly absurd is that these so-called experts have been absolutely wrong about the whole region throughout all these years and all this generation and after what Israel pushed through After after the all of the constant ceasefire ceasefire and all that pressure, you know now look at that Hamas was severely Damaged and degraded and then Hizballah, you know, you know begging for a ceasefire And now in Iran Iran sent their their best. And now they essentially were now begging kind of like, Oh, no, no, please don't know. How about that? So now, now you have an opportunity for the first who knows when, where there could be possible peace, and aren't they ever hold themselves accountable for being absolutely wrong about all of the underlying dynamics?

And that's all been shattered and blown away. So for me, it was easy to follow Israel because they all understood. And I promise you that the beepers and the walkie talkies and that kinds of intelligence will be the kind of a triumph will be studied for the next 30 years. And now I might disagree with with Joe Biden, and I am going to disagree with me, Donald Trump. But for me, it's because I'm following Israel because they are going to have what's closest to their true alignment.

Just in wrapping up here, a friend of yours, who we know in common, said to me that you recently met with a group of October 7th orphans of the war, and he said, ask him about it. So, I'm asking you about it. Can you tell me who you met with? My, well I have two, well I have three children but two sons, and before they arrived I spoke to my son and he got his, he just turned 16 and he just got his permit. Yeah, his drive.

And the first orphan that I spoke to was 16 years old. And he described the circumstances, how his father saved, saved people and his father was killed. And I'm like, I talked to my son, a 16 year old, and just then talked to a 16 year old who became an orphan. And all of these children were able to describe those, like I don't know how they do it.

And they were grateful for my support. I'm like, no, you guys are heroes. You guys inspire me. And I couldn't function if I had to witness or if I've lost my parents throughout all that barbarity. And so it's like, that's the kind of thing that makes it easy. And now, yes, it costs money, and I have dented my own base.

And I know I've lost some kind of democratic support in certain quarters, but for me, following the right side and that moral clarity, I think for me personally what defines your character are the things that you're willing to do that might even move against your own political interests. You in your office have posters hung up of the hostages. Yeah well I've met with countless hostage families. Each one is an honor. And that started immediately right after, and his father and his son was taken as a hostage, and he had that iconic poster. And I said,

would you sign this up? And we actually, we put it up. We put it up right outside my office. And then we were forced to move it inside. And then I was like, hey, they're all going to come up in my front room in my office, because people have stopped talking about it and it receded into the public conversation. Well, not in not here at Wone. And now as they were released, or they were rescued, or they were murdered by Hamas, they were migrated from one side to the other, and it's closely monitored.

And they're all gonna stay up until everyone is brought home. And now look at today what's happening. And they are terrorizing these hostages, and they are cheering when they are marching out with caskets of children that they've killed. And it's like, where does this sickness come from? And like, what kind of a society puts up the kinds of organization that has normalized that kinds of depravity? And, you know, where have you lost the humanity to cheering the death of children and marched out like if it was like a Mardi Gras parade?

Senator Federman, thank you for your courage, for your leadership and for... It's not courage. It really isn't. What's courage is being living and forced to live in a tunnel or in the dark for 500 days, or being a soldier and fighting for the survival of your nation. And being in those families where they're living under the risk of rocket attacks, that's courage. Being a senator, that's small compared to that. I never expected if that voice would penetrate, but if it did, I'm just grateful to proudly

stand with that community, you know, witnessing at a very, very hyper-local way, like after the Tree of Life. But now, if people have sought out after my voice, like that's an incredible honor, but for me that's been easy. Well, then I'll thank you for your clarity. How about that? Thank you for your clarity and thank you for your time today and hope to have you back on and continue this conversation. Well, I do hope if that happens and I do look forward to it, that there's even more and

more better outcomes right now and we don't have no more cheering over caskets or terrorizing a poor woman in the middle of a crowd but what won't change if I am back on Nexus my vote and voice is not going to change if I see you and speak again. Thank you. That's our show for today. You can head to our website, ArkMedia.org. That's A-R-K-ArkMedia.org to sign up for updates, get in touch with us, access our transcripts, all of which have been hyperlinked to resources that we hope will enrich your understanding

of the topics covered in the episodes on this podcast. Call Me Back is produced and edited by Alon Benatar. Additional editing by Martin Tuergo. Research by Stav Slama and Gabe Silverstein. And our music was composed by Yuval Semo. Until next time, I'm your host, Dan Sinor.