Calm Parenting Podcast - Adoption #2: Kids Who Never Seem Full or Happy, Unhealthy Attachments, Separation & Sleep Issues #463

Starting point is 00:00:00 So I have to admit as I worked on this podcast for the past few weeks it was a struggle because there aren't always full-proof strategies that will work with our adopted kids. There's something so deeply entwined in a child's soul that you and I will feel helpless at times to understand or remedy it fully. So my goal is to make progress to lessen negative outcomes and to improve positive outcomes. And I appreciate all the feedback from last week's initial podcast on adoption. Look your kids are going to struggle. It doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong at all. There are some things you cannot fix, some questions you cannot answer, some holes you

Starting point is 00:00:44 cannot fill. You're you cannot fill. You're not a hero. You're not the Savior. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I think what you have done by adopting is heroic. I think it is admirable. I have enormous respect for you, but I don't want you to feel like you have to be the hero. I hope that makes sense. You show up and you do your best. And from what I have experienced over the past 25 years with parents who have adopted kids is you pour your heart, your soul, your life, your finances into these kids and you give them everything you have. And that's enough. That's all you can do.

Starting point is 00:01:25 And I wanna release you from any guilt or thinking, oh, what if we did this? What if we did that? I want to in this episode give you some very practical tools that I think will help you. So for those who don't know, this is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us at CelebrateCalm.com.

Starting point is 00:01:44 This is kind of a couple bonus episodes on adopted kids in our regular podcast. We'll go out as normal, usually every Sunday and Wednesday. So, this is not an exhaustive approach to all the issues faced with adoption. This does not apply to all adopted kids. I just want to highlight common areas we have dealt with over the past two decades. I believe the following comments from parents are all related and have the same root. Our son will attach himself to anyone who gives him positive or negative attention. Mine seem to have a love bucket with a giant hole in the bottom. They never seem

Starting point is 00:02:27 full even with so much attention care and love. Mine has an insatiable need for parent attention. Her cup is never full. Seems like she's unhappy and can't see the good in the day if one thing doesn't go her way. His response to everything that doesn't go his way is, see, you don't love me, you never love me. Ours tries to bug us all day. We struggle with sneaking food, being jealous of siblings, getting things, and lying. So, let's delve into these common issues.

Starting point is 00:03:02 I may repeat myself at times, so forgive me for that. Over the years, many adults who were adopted have told me, it does feel like there's always this missing piece, just something I'm missing, a void. And as a kid, I would impulsively try to fill that hole with stuff, with a constant need to be validated. And so when we get into this this we'll see about the need for intense emotional and physical engagement. So that one early comment,

Starting point is 00:03:31 our son will attach himself to anyone who gives him positive or negative attention. This does not just apply to adopted kids, but it's very prevalent especially in kids with attachment disorders. and this is why we talk about proactively giving our kids positive intensity. Many kids associate intensity with connection. They just don't distinguish between negative and positive intention. Attention, intensity, and so what kids often learn from an early age is this. If I do something wrong, parents, teachers, caregivers, look me in the eyes, yell at me, or correct me.

Starting point is 00:04:16 Well, that's feeding something inside. It's entirely negative, but at least you cared enough to put your phone down and give me 100% of your attention and emotional intensity. See that's intense emotional engagement. Our kids with ADHD often crave that. Unfortunately, we tend to give kids intense emotional engagement when they do things wrong. I did that as a dad with our son until I finally figured out that's what he was looking for. And human nature says we will seek to get our needs met in the easiest way possible.

Starting point is 00:04:57 So kids do things wrong and boom, there's that intense engagement. See intensity means you care enough to be engaged. The worst thing in your marriage or any relationship is not if you fight with your spouse, and I'm not talking about hitting or abuse. The worst thing is apathy, when you don't even care enough about the other person to argue or try to work things out. So, in many of the following situations, I'm going to talk about proactively giving kids intense emotional engagement and I'll add something related. Intense physical engagement. I think that's why our kids

Starting point is 00:05:36 crave sensory pressure so much. They crave both physical and emotional intensity. So here's one of those comments again. Mine seem to have a love bucket with a giant hole in the bottom. They never seem full even with so much attention, care, and love. Well, ours tries to bug us all day and wants to constantly play almost like a compulsion. And I think these parents are spot-on. This is not just a rational choice. Many of these behaviors are a compulsion driven by a need deep inside. It's almost like a starving person bugging people for food, always craving more for fear he

Starting point is 00:06:20 won't be full. See, you wouldn't say that they're making a choice. That's a compulsion and we see that in the lying, sneaking things. It's not always just a a choice, a moral choice that they're making. It's being driven by something deeper. So here are three things I would make a priority. Proactively giving your kids even a short burst of intense positive emotional engagement, two, meeting sensory needs, and three, finding a mentor of sorts. So number one, let's try to give your child, your adopted child, bursts of intense emotional engagement. Have you ever been engaged in a conversation with someone when it felt like you two were the only people in the world

Starting point is 00:07:07 where you were totally engaged and even if it wasn't eight or twelve minute conversation, you felt totally connected? That's what I'm shooting for. Instead of 30 minutes of kind of passively listening and asking questions, try giving your adopted kids even eight, 10, 12 minutes of really intense engagement. Get down on the floor, get close to them, look them in their eyes. You know I don't like eye contact when kids are upset or in that shame mode, but at this point,

Starting point is 00:07:39 you look them in the eyes, ask them questions, be intensely curious about what they're interested in, even if it's boring to you and you don't really care. Look, I'm honest here. Sometimes the things our kids talk about are inane sounding to us and it's really hard. So give some intensity to this and ask them questions. Hey, why do you think it would work that way? What do you like so much about this video game? Why are you getting so good at it? What is the hardest part? What's your biggest challenge at getting better?

Starting point is 00:08:12 Oh, how are you going to overcome or fix that? And you can praise with focused intensity, not fake praise, legitimate, honest affirmations. Hey, I'm really impressed by how much you know about this subject, even though they won't put that same intensity into school worker chores or things you want them to care about. Hey, how did you learn so much about this?

Starting point is 00:08:36 How did you figure this out so quickly? Wow, that just must have been so hard, but you figured it out. You know, you've always been really good at seeing patterns in things. That's a superpower in life. And then, see, I like that, and then perhaps transition to this. Look, by the way, all those things I just said demonstrated, I'm really listening. I really care.

Starting point is 00:09:00 I'm really focused on it. It's not kind of like the typical, you know, you're reading the newspaper and your spouse is talking, you're like, uh-huh, uh-huh, that's good, honey. Not that. You're really, really zeroing in on this. And I can tell you, this is effective for all humans. Our son is 31. When I take an interest in his ski mountaineering or in avalanches, he always says, Dad, thank you for being interested in that. It makes people feel seen and heard and with your kids. There's some intensity to that So after you do that ask questions you you you praise then you can perhaps Transition to something like this. So what are your next steps? What are you going to learn about next and then you keep transitioning?

Starting point is 00:09:43 You know what? I love learning about that from you. Listen, I need to spend the next 30 minutes focused on getting dinner ready, doing some of my work, whatever it is. While I'm doing that, can you go do X and then while we eat or when we're folding laundry or going for a walk, you can tell me more. Now, I can't guarantee that will work, and there is a distinct possibility they will demand even more of your intensity. And I know you don't have unlimited time.

Starting point is 00:10:13 You've got other kids. I know it's exhausting, but so is the other path. So let's try this for the next couple weeks. See how your kids respond to this short burst of focused intense emotional engagement. Number two, let's call this intense physical sensory engagement. Look for ways to give your kids intense sensory pressure. This can be directly through rough housing which is fantastic for kids developing brains and it's often a way that dads relate best to their kids.

Starting point is 00:10:43 Look, it comes naturally to a lot of us as men. It's how I related to Casey when he was little. I'd get on my hands and knees and he would honestly just run directly into me. We'd play hockey and we'd get into fake hockey fights and we'd wrestle. And yes, sometimes it ended up in tears because we went too far. But there was a lot of intense physical engagement. When we had the camp kids at our home, we played this really cool game that settled the kids, it was called steamroller.

Starting point is 00:11:11 So I played like I was a steamroller rolling across the floor. They would have to jump over me before I rolled over their feet, because that would cause them to fall down and be crushed by the steam roller. The interesting part is that they laughed more when they lost and got crushed. They loved that physical pressure. And you've heard me tell stories about kids who would take the cushions off our sofa and lie on the hard frame of the sofa. So our code word when they got really upset was sofa.

Starting point is 00:11:44 And the pre-established mission or job at that moment was to run into the living room, throw the cushions off the sofa, lie down on the hard part of the sofa and then I would pile the cushions on top of the child and sit on top of the cushions, obviously adjusting my weight. And it was calming to them because they craved the sensory pressure, there was no eye contact and it was weird. In the last podcast, previous episode on adoption, I mentioned a bunch of sensory ideas so please listen to that one. You can create an obstacle course in the basement or backyard, keep bags of mulch for kids to carry and spread outside, sign kids up for individual activities like gymnastics, rock climbing, ballet, and martial arts. Occupational therapy, a therapist, OTs

Starting point is 00:12:30 will also give you great tools to use to meet these needs. And I've had parents, look I've had parents install large padded mats in the basement for kids to crash into. Sometimes with our kids the weirder the better, but get that intense physical engagement. Okay the third step is better, but get that intense physical engagement. Okay, the third step is very powerful, but it's a tricky one. So let's geek out together for a minute over gut health because I'm really into this. I just learned that prebiotics are the food that help fuel the growth of healthy bacteria, the probiotics, in your gut. So you have to have both and that's why AG1 helps my digestion, calms my stomach, and keeps me regular. Look, I've

Starting point is 00:13:11 loved my morning AG1 routine for years, long before AG1 became a wonderful partner to the podcast. It's a quick easy win because I start my day with 75 vitamins, probiotics, prebiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients. I just don't have that stomach distress anymore or that bloating, you know, that kind of interferes with your day and puts you on edge. Plus, my weight is down and I've got energy for this hiking season. I'm drinking my AG1 right now while I'm recording this, and I think you should as well. AG1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift

Starting point is 00:13:45 when you sign up. You'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3 and K2, which I love, and five free travel packs in your first box. So check out drinkag1.com slash com to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com slash com to be kind to your gut. I want to encourage you to find a mission and mentor. Other people's validation can be very powerful for our kids. And many of our kids thrive outside the home in the adult world.

Starting point is 00:14:17 They like feeling helpful, important, and that they have something to give others. Look, this can help with that sense of identity, of identifying with their strengths because these kids are often in a lot of therapy and everything is kind of negative. So this is really important. It gets your kids out of the home, which gives you and the other siblings time to breathe a bit. And I do not intend that to sound mean or cynical anyway. It's just reality. And that's what we deal with here. It's just reality. So I would look for and actively create opportunities for your adopted child to help say elderly

Starting point is 00:14:56 neighbors down the street or church to do service projects, volunteering at an animal shelter or feeding the homeless, doing an internship for a local entrepreneur or even a colleague of yours at work. I would look for any and all opportunities to get your kids using their unique talents, gifts and passions to help others. It could be running their own little business, their own lemonade stand. You could give a neighbor $20 and say, hey, my son, my daughter loves helping other people, right? Not always me, but loves helping. Could you ask my child to come do some yard work or something around the house and then

Starting point is 00:15:36 pay them 20 bucks for it? I don't care. I'm not, look, I'm a realist. That, I'm not kidding when I say that may be the best therapy your child receives. And I mean that knowing he or she has something to give others, doing something purposeful and constructive, focusing all of that energy, getting the intense validation of another adult who says, wow, you're really helpful. Hey, could you come down here next week and help me out? I would put some time into this. It could be volunteering or getting a job. I've had this happen at a local gymnastics right? Your child

Starting point is 00:16:16 does gymnastics and they really like it there and so could they get kind of like a little job so to, helping clean up? If they're older, they might be able to get an actual job at a gym or somewhere doing that. Or at a martial arts studio, cleaning up, helping teach younger kids, because a lot of our kids are really good at that. It could be anything. I want them in positive environments, doing positive positive constructive things around people who will Validate them encourage them another thing with adult other adults is they can also hold your child accountable a little bit and say hey

Starting point is 00:16:53 You did a great job here. I see what you're capable Hey, you got to stop that out stop mouthing off at your mother and they'll often listen to someone else But that's not my main goal with that, but it's a byproduct I else, but that's not my main goal with that, but it's a byproduct. I would put a lot of energy into giving your kids intense emotional engagement, intense physical sensory engagement, and safe positive interactions with other adults. Again, it's not going to fix anything, but it may lessen the negative behaviors and give you a reprieve of some kind, plus it may just build their confidence, a strong

Starting point is 00:17:26 sense of identity that they struggle with. So try that. Observe how your child responds. Okay, this is kind of related. How do you teach your kids to be independent even when separated for a short amount of time? My daughter always wants to be with me. So I would validate that. Hey, I love that you want to be with me. I cherish our time together. I also know you're capable of being independent, so we're just going to practice that new skill together. Then I'd almost role play and give her a specific mission to focus on for even 8 or 12 minutes

Starting point is 00:17:59 at home in the next room. So you physically practice being one room over. Play a few songs. Set a timer. When she does it, well give intensity to that. Wow nice job. Hey that shows me you're really growing up. Get some small wins and then build on them. I know we want the home run. We want things to drastically change but it doesn't always work that way. So that's why I'm not going to just like throw her in the pool. They're like, Hey, I'll be back in an hour. It's in the other room for 12 minutes. Hey, that was awesome. Let's see

Starting point is 00:18:32 if we can do it 20 minutes. Hey, I've got to go to the basement and fold laundry. Why don't you stay up here and work on this in the kitchen and I'll be up in 20 minutes. Get the small wins and then build on that. Give lots of intense emotional engagement to top her tank off, so to speak. Then you can practice a little bit of separation, get the win and build on that. When she is apart from you, give her something she is in control of, something she's good at doing. Practice doing this with a neighbor or a family friend because when she says I I I need to go see my mom they'll usually

Starting point is 00:19:10 reinforce reinforce oh you're capable you're capable of handling this and I really love having you here and they'll do it in an even matter-of-fact tone instead of trying to convince or bribe her and that builds confidence. Again this won't make it go away and fix it, but you can slowly make progress and that's what we want. Another parent said, hey, it seems like my daughter is unhappy and can't see the good in the day

Starting point is 00:19:36 if one thing doesn't go her way. Now this is pretty common with many of our strong willed, neurodivergent kids and also our adopted kids. And I went through this in some detail in the most recent podcast from a couple days ago, so please listen to that for more. But let's try this first. Do not try to convince her to be happy or content. It's useless and annoying for everyone. Instead, validate her disappointment and frustration with intensity. Oh, I'd be really disappointed too. Man, that is frustrating.

Starting point is 00:20:09 When you're looking forward to something and it doesn't work out, just validate it without fixing it. Don't say, oh, I'm sorry that didn't work out. And don't show empathy because they see that as weakness and it sounds condescending to them. Don't try to redirect. Just sit in the discomfort of her complaining. Now you can say in an even matter of fact tone, hey let me know if you want to problem solve a different plan now.

Starting point is 00:20:34 But mainly I want you to validate with intensity, give her some space to process and just observe. Okay, this is a tough one. A child is age four, adopted at 14 months old after a lot of trauma and neglect and exposure in the womb to drugs. The mom said she doesn't sleep. We've tried different sleep remedies for years but nothing works. The lack of sleep leads to defiance, lying, severe impulsivity, destructive behavior. We've been a weekly therapy for years and it just doesn't seem to help the root cause of her issues.

Starting point is 00:21:11 By the way, I don't think the therapy will. It doesn't sound like it is. She's on four psychiatric medications and we still have all the same issues. It feels hopeless so much of the time. And the reason I wanted to answer this one, or address it even though I don't have a great answer, is to demonstrate, well to encourage you to know you're not alone. Because a lot of you are in the same situation

Starting point is 00:21:36 and you've done everything. You've spent countless hours, trips to therapists, you've done everything, all the money and time. It's hard. And I don't have a great answer for you, and that pains me, all the money and time. It's hard and I don't have a great answer for you and that pains me because I really like coming up with solutions. I imagine this would feel hopeless, right? And you're and you all, your whole family is exhausted. The only thing I can relate is what we would try

Starting point is 00:22:00 if we were in this situation. Now caveat, I am not a medical doctor. I am not a psychiatrist. So consult with your doctors when you consider the following of what I do. If we had the time, flexibility, and money, I think we would take our child to a well-respected naturopathic doctor, a functional medicine practitioner, or someone who specializes in gut health. And I know some of these people are really weird and they're odd. And sometimes they have to be odd because they're doing unconventional things. And so the trick is to find someone that's just odd enough and effective without being

Starting point is 00:22:40 total crackpot. And I think you know what I mean by that. I would try a gut cleansing protocol or a gut health protocol mixed with a lot of very intense sensory exercise as I mentioned before. Maybe in consultation with professionals you could wean her off the four medications since you said they're not helping at all. They could be making her just lethargic enough so that she's in that kind of you know that hazy lethargic state if you've ever been in it and you're not tired enough to sleep. You're just tired enough to be miserable. I don't know if that's what's happening. That's what my gut says and in addition to working on gut health and intense sensory exercises, by the way, those may help her sleep. I'd

Starting point is 00:23:31 also spend as much time letting her do things she genuinely enjoys doing. Now I'm not talking about screens. If she likes to create, make things, build, cook, dance, sing, play, make make messes get into things invent Let her do those things create successes play laugh Just try to get some level of normal normal normal see with very few expectations Look if the therapy isn't working then take a break it. Your family could probably use a breather from everything right now, running around and trying. And let's see if we can do this differently. There's no easy answer, but that's what we would personally try. And it probably can't hurt given that nothing else is working. Now I've got more

Starting point is 00:24:22 questions and answers on lying and stealing, kids who yell you don't love me when they're upset or I want to hurt myself, kids eating for the dopamine rush when weeknights are brutal, kids won't do homework. But I have to admit I'm emotionally drained at the moment and I'd rather keep this episode as is because we have enough to work on for this next couple weeks. And then I'll answer those other questions and more on a future upcoming podcast in a couple of weeks. But that gives me time to get more feedback from you. Come up with a few more questions.

Starting point is 00:24:55 So we have another robust discussion of that. I appreciate you understanding that. I appreciate you listening. Thank you for sharing the podcast with others. I've got so much respect for the challenges that you're all facing. We love you all. Let us know how we can help. Okay.

Starting point is 00:25:12 Oh, by the way, I don't know if I mentioned this. There's no pressure at all, but I know you've spent a lot of money. If you are ever interested in our programs, email Casey through the website and ask him just say, you could even put like adoption in the subject line and We can help you financially with the products the programs because I think they will help But I don't want to be more of a burden financially too because I know you've been through so much. Alright, love you all. Bye

Calm Parenting Podcast - Adoption #2: Kids Who Never Seem Full or Happy, Unhealthy Attachments, Separation & Sleep Issues #463

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