Calm Parenting Podcast - Obedience, Authority & Defiance

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

Obedience, Authority & Defiance You want your kids to listen to you and do what you say. Kirk got pretty upset discussing a different way to look at obedience, authority, and defiance. What do you really want? Do you want your kids to listen because “you said so” or because they trust you? This is powerful and important.  Need a last minute Christmas gift? Give the gift of CALM to your family and take advantage of our Christmas Sale. Our Christmas Sale ends this Friday (12.20) and inventory is LIMITED. Click here to learn more: https://www.celebratecalm.com/christmas/    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Calm Parenting Podcast listeners get an exclusive 20% off an IXL membership when you sign up today at ixl.com slash kirk. Visit ixl.com slash kirk to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Obedience. How do you get your child to be obedient? I'm going to answer this question in probably a different way than you expect me to, and it may irritate you and trouble you, but I'll get to that. Welcome to the Calm Parenting Podcast. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us at CelebrateCalm.com. There you sign up. We've got a free, we've got our Facebook page, we have

obviously our podcast free newsletter, sign up for it at CelebrateCalm.com or email Casey, C-A-S-E-Y at CelebrateCalm.com ask him, say hey, sign me up for the free newsletter, the reason is you get a lot of this in writing and I do a lot of times in the podcasts

and through the newsletters, I give scripts what do you say, and it's helpful toters, I give scripts. What do you say? And it's helpful to see it in writing. And you keep a little file folder in your email for our newsletters. And then when you're struggling with something, you pull up and say, oh, meltdowns by the subject line. You pull different things up. Anyway, it's helpful. If we can help you, let us know. So heading into Christmas, and I was thinking, hey, what topic should we do? And this one doesn't make sense, but I'm going to do it on obedience because I get this all the time, and I have a visceral reaction to that word. And I want to try to give you a couple different tips here and a different way to look at behavior. Before we get there, big shout out to our new friends in

Wrocław, Poland, Archer and Monica. So here's what's cool. And I'm just telling this story for a reason. Two days before we leave for Poland, or three days, we get an order comes through for our CD special. And I look at it and I'm like, hey, they live in Poland. We're about to go to Poland. So I email them, say, hey, thanks for ordering our stuff. We're going to be in your city. Any possibility you'd want to meet up? That's a little weird. Not always like meeting with people, but heck, they're from Poland. If we're going to be that close, may as well do it. And so Archer, to his credit, because things didn't work out for dinner one night, but I was leaving town really early the next morning,

and Archer meets me at the train station at 5.45 a.m. at a coffee shop, and we had 30 minutes to talk and learn about his family, how they found out about us, make a personal connection. His wife, Monica, handmade us these beautiful kitchen towels, which we have up in the kitchen. The only problem is we never want to wipe our hands on them because they're so pretty and so beautiful and so soft. So thank you to that family for being so kind to us halfway across the world. You know, what's even more humbling is Arthur stumbled on our podcast somehow. And he's like, oh, this is describing our kids. Like we need to get these CDs. And it was neat because it's a dad. Usually it's the mom, the wife who's like, honey, we need to get these CDs. And it was neat because it's a dad. Usually it's the mom,

the wife, who's like, honey, we need this. We need this. And he was like, no, I kept telling my wife, like, we need this. But it was a big expenditure. And, you know, they live in Poland. And not there's anything wrong. We love Poland. Poland's awesome people, awesome food, awesome history. But the Christmas special that we have going on, you know, it takes a little bit of extra cash with the whole currency thing, right, to buy things from Poland than it does necessarily maybe in the U.S. But Archer, to his credit, he and Monica came up with it, ordered our stuff, and they said it's been changing their family. And that means a ton to us. And he did say, like right before, he was so kind, he walked me down to the right platform to make sure I got on the right train. Really, really sweet person. And so he said, you're right. When we had to come up with that money to do that, it said, we're serious. We're going to work at it.

We're going to change. And that's why we do it. And that's why I require an investment from people, because I want you to take this seriously, because Arter and Monica are literally changing generations of patterns in their family, and their kids and their family are going to be different. And it's really, really cool. And so I appreciate them doing that and being so kind to us. And I wanted to tell you that story too, because this is personal. We're getting a lot of new people through the podcast. And I want you to know, this isn't some impersonal big business.

We're not selling other people's products. We create and make everything that we have. And it's a family run. This is our family does this. This is what we do. And there's one, I was thinking, I just went on a little walk because it's beautiful here today. And I was thinking about this, that the biggest compliment that I really appreciate isn't like, oh, you've really changed our family because we get a lot of testimonials and that's awesome and we appreciate it. But when I get those testimonials like, well, you've changed our family, we're doing this. My reply is always one, well, thank you. But no, you changed your family. I gave you some tools and some insights and some strategies that work, but you had to choose to make a different choice. You had

to choose to change yourself instead of your kids. You had to humble yourself and choose a different path. You had to do the hard work. So you're my hero, not the other way around, right? Like you've done the hard work. So I do appreciate the testimonials. And by the way, that's what we're just going to continue. We're going to end the Christmas sale lastials. And by the way, that's what we're just going to continue. We're going to end the Christmas sale last week. And Casey and I decided, we decided as a family, let's just keep it rolling because we're getting so many testimonials because we're making it so affordable. If you go to CelebrateCalm.com on one of the tabs, you'll see Christmas sale, right? And there's no BS program. We have both at the lowest prices we've ever done.

And we thought we're getting so many testimonials from people who for the first time are investing in our products and investing in a new way of life, a new way of parenting. Let's just keep rolling with it. So we're continuing with it. So it's awesome. So take advantage of that. But you know, the biggest compliment that I get, and I just wanted to share this because Christmas time, we're getting a little bit sappy and stuff is when I get a email like uh because I answer emails personally right because many years ago we had this consultant come in he's like Kirk you need to create a bigger platform we need to put pictures of you up on stage from a different angle with these big crowds and you can't answer email because you need to convey the message that you're too big and important and busy for that and you have staff for that. And I was like, well, that's a lie

because we don't have a lot of staff for that. And so I tried it for about a day, maybe. It was stupid. You know why? Because it's personal to us. And when I see an email come through and someone needs help, what am I going to do? Like shovel it off and say, like, I'm too important to answer your question? That'd be jerky and stupid. Now, I can't answer every email, and I don't answer every email just because I have a family, and my time is very important, but we try to help as much as we can. But the point is it's a very, very personal thing to us. And we read these emails, and it hits us is, it's a very, very personal thing to us. And we read these

emails and it hits us and it's emotionally taxing at times to hear some of these things from parents. And I want you to know, if you need help, reach out to us. Because when you do, you're not calling a 1-800 call center where you're going to hear all these people in the background that we hired to answer questions. You're probably going to talk to my son, who is the reason for Celebrate Calm anyway, because he was such a difficult, challenging child, but he is such an amazing young man. So call him, 888-506-1871. Email him, case at CelebrateCalm.com. And one of my biggest joys in life is I pretty much

read everything that comes through the business and occasionally don't tell Casey he knows this. But I go and I read the sent file and I look at what he's sent to people. And one of the big, most gratifying things for me is I hear all the time people reply back, Casey, thank you so much for working with us. Thank you for going out of your way to help us. Thank you for making this work within our budget. Thank you for replying so quickly. So I want you to know if you're new to us that we're here to help you.

It's a very, very personal mission to us. Anyway, that's what we want you to know. So, obedience. I didn't make a lot of notes on this on purpose, partly because maybe I'm a little bit lazy with it. But I didn't want to overthink it. I want to share kind of what comes up. I get, and we get, a lot of emails saying, well, we want our child to be obedient. There's something in that word that really bothers me, right? And I get it. I get the thought behind it, but here's what I kind of hear when I hear the word obedience coming from a parent. It carries kind of this

icky thing to me, which is a demanding authority figure who is demanding that his child submit to his will. And I know many of you are going to be like, well, but isn't that what God does to us? I'm like, I'm not so sure I hear it that way, right? And this, I know you're going to be like, yeah, but you're soft. You're not obedient. You don't listen. You don't respect authority figures. There may be a little bit to the fact that I don't like authority figures, but I don't like the tone that comes out when I hear obedience. And here's why. What I usually hear in it, it's usually from parents who are so focused on getting their child to be outwardly obedient that they're trying so hard to change their behavior. When it comes to a Christian or

religious sense, these are usually parents who have grown up in a very law-based system of theology where God's favor and acceptance and love is based on you doing his will, doing the right thing, making good choices, living a holy life, being good. And it's usually based on your, I'm just going to say your, your outward behavior. Well, there's a big trap in that. There's a lot of big traps in that. But the law kills. It's destructive. And I've heard this through the years that unless you really understand grace and the fact that you don't have to earn.

Look, some of you grew up in this system and you could never please your parents. And all they talked about was obedience. And when they said, why should I do that? Well, because I'm the authority figure and I told you to do it. And if I post on Facebook that kind of thing, like, well, just let your kids know you're the authority figure. And you know why they need to do it? Because I said so. I get 4 billion likes because people love the law. People love the tough approach because it sounds so good and so hard. It's so old school. I'm an old school guy. But I want to give you a different sense of this. Am I against obedience? No. I just don't like the word and the connotation that comes with

it. I'll give you a couple. Here's what I would prefer and see if this makes sense. Let me tell a quick story first. So my son Casey, who is very, very strong-willed because he got that from me, we used to argue a lot until I learned not to do it. But there was a time when he was 12 or 13 or 14, when we were going back and forth, he had asked, he had actually probably demanded, that he be able to do something that I didn't think was appropriate and I didn't want him to do. And so, you know, I was trying to teach him through a couple principles what to do. And he would, by that time, we had a good relationship. And so, you know, I was trying to teach him through a couple of principles what to do. And he would, by that time, we had a good relationship and he was like, well, dad,

what about this? What about this? And I was like, you know, that's a good point, Casey. It's a good point. And I encourage you to listen to your kids because they often make really good points and they want to be heard. And we went back and forth over this. And I could tell it was really, really important to him because he was really digging in. But it was also really important to me. And I was digging in. And I knew all along, I have the trump card. I can always pull out, I'm your father, and what I say goes. And I have zero problem with that. I have no problem with the fact that I'm the authority figure and what I say goes. I don't shrink back from that. I don't give in to my son. I didn't just give him things because I was afraid he was going to be mad at me because I don't need him to

like me. And I didn't need him to be happy with my choices. I wasn't dependent on his response. And I can say no to my son very, very easily. And I'm fine with that. But I don't ultimately like that approach. And I'll tell you why in a minute. So we were, this is like an all day thing. And we were kind of at like, he made good points. I made good points. We both thought we kind of won the little debate and had the better point. But I knew at that point, there's no way I'm convincing him that my arguments are correct. And he knew there's no way that he's going to change me. So I remember at the end of the day, walking in to the room, sitting down, because I love changing body posture. And I sat down and I looked at him and I said, Case, I said, I've heard you and I understand your heart in this.

And I said, I'm not giving in and I'm not going to change my mind. But I want to ask you one question. I want you to think about this. Do you trust me? See, it almost makes, I can feel it. It still almost makes me cry inside. I can feel that. Do you trust me? Do you trust that I have your best interests at heart? Do you trust that I'm not just trying to be a jerk? Do you trust that I'm not just trying to be a killjoy to keep you from having fun with your friends? Do you trust that I have some life wisdom that could save you some pain? Do you trust me? And then I said, you don't have to answer that right now, but that's the question I want you to ponder. And so I walked away. And later that day, I remember at that time, he didn't come and talk to me.

Because sometimes it's awkward for teens. Like, Father, I've considered what you... I remember he texted me. And he said, Dad, I trust you. See, that chokes me up. Because that's what I want. That's what you want. For the Christians and my religious friends out there, I don't just want to obey God out of obedience because if I don't obey him, something bad's going to happen or he's going to send me to hell or

wherever you want to go with that. That's not why I want to do it. And so that's why I don't like the word obedience. I like the word trust. For the Christians out there, put it this way. Yes, God, I will do what you want me to do. I will make that hard choice. I will do your will in this situation, not my own, not because I'm afraid of you, not because you're big and you're the authority figure, but because I know you trust, because I trust you and I know that you love me and I know that you have my best interest at heart. That's why I will do it, right? See, that takes things in an entirely different situation. In this case with my son, it wasn't a matter of, I didn't give in to him, right? I still asked him and requested that he do what I ask, but I didn't put it in terms of, well, I'm your father and you need to obey me. Because I guarantee you,

80% of the time when I hear those words in that tone, what you have in the home is a parent and a child who are just locking horns all the time with constant power struggles. And the only thing that ever happens at the end is it creates a bigger divide. Does the child ultimately obey the parent? Yes, because they're doing so because they're being forced to do it. Or sometimes they're doing it out of other reasons which aren't good, right? Which coercion, threats, whatever. But there's not a relationship that's being formed there, right? Look, I was obedient to my father. You know why? Because I was afraid of my dad. Because my dad, look, I love my dad, but I didn't respect my dad. I feared my dad. And as I get older, and I'm not being disrespectful, my dad had a really hard life. And he tried his best.

He really tried to be a good dad. My dad didn't have a lot of tools. He didn't have a dad. He didn't have a grandfather. He had a rough, rough life. But my dad was also a mean, vindictive person who wasn't a really good person. As I get older, I'm able to say that now without any malice with it because I just told you he did the best that he could. And he had in his heart, he was trying. But I didn't obey my father because I trusted or respected him. It was because I feared his eyes and I never got his approval.

So my father had four sons who were obedient and none of us had a relationship with him. So if you want obedience, go for it. Okay, and I'm being a little bit harsh here, but I want to be at times with this because I want to shake you because some of you have grown up and that's, you taught your son, those kids, those songs of like, obey right away with a happy heart, obey, O-B-E-Y, and you sing songs. And the one word that your child grows up hearing is obey, obey, obey, obedience. What they don't hear is trust and respect and love. And unfortunately, in a lot of religious homes,

it's not about love. It's about, well, my job is to get to my child to behave the right way. No, it's not. It's not. And I'm being a little bit passionate about it because you will destroy your child, your child's relationship with you if that's all you're after. And your child will grow up and not trust God. And that's why some of you who are listening or some of you have a husband who does this or you grew up and you're battling this decades and generations of religious thought in here that that's all it's about is to get you to behave. And when we're traveling through a lot of these, you go to these old cathedrals and things that are hundreds and centuries, thousands of years old,

not thousands. Some of them were like 1200 years old. But you know what primarily the pictures are of? Judgment, damnation. Why? Because that's how they control people and that's how they got people to change their behavior. But that doesn't foster a good relationship. Look, I just got this email from a parent, from mom. My husband was physically abused as a child, didn't have a great dad, afraid it's going to be in our future. They've got a toddler, four-year-old, right? And my husband gets upset when his authority gets tested. He'll sometimes grab our son. Sometimes he'll even grab him by the ear, squeeze hard, yelling, who's the boss? Who's in charge? Look, that's a little bit more extreme. Most of you don't have that, but some of you do. Look, they're on a collision course for some really nasty stuff that's about to happen. You can get obedience, good outward behavior, but you won't have changed

your child's heart, right? And we act in a lot of circles like, well, obedience is the highest ideal or goal. It's not. A changed heart is a trusting relationship with an authority figure so that, and look, there's another point to this, so hang in here. Let me finish this part up. I want your kids to listen to you because they trust you, because they know that you can control yourself, that you are a trustworthy person who has wisdom to help them. Does that make sense? That's what I want. Second point in the whole obedience thing is, I guarantee you, probably 60, 70% of the time, you're misjudging and misinterpreting your child's motives. So you'll see the outward behavior is often bad, inappropriate, wrong.

No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean that's what they were thinking in their heart. Here's another one. Most of your kids, when you tell them to do something, their first thought is going, the question is going to be, why? And you're going to misinterpret that most of the time as, well, he's just being defiant, disrespectful. And they're not, because you're looking for context and you're looking for a different way to do it. And if you don't learn how your child sees the world and that their strong-willed child responds differently to things into different communication, you're going to have constant power struggles. And I guarantee you, most of the men out there, you're going to blame your child. Well, if you weren't so defiant, we wouldn't have these

power struggles. And I would challenge you with that and say, no, you're the grown-up. Start acting like the grown-up, right? Like in this email, who's the boss? Who's in charge? My question would be like, well, you're not because you're not even in control of your own emotions because you can't even take it. Sorry for being, look, I don't want this to come across as being, I don't know what the right word is, judgmental, but I want it to hit home because sometimes you have to be shaken out of decades of thinking of things. And for someone to say, that's not right. You're not even charging of your own emotions. You can't even deal with a four-year-old, a six-year-old, eight-year-old. Let's make it this. Your 14-year-old has an attitude

and your whole day's ruined. Boo freaking hoo. You're 35. You're 40. So you be the grown-up. Stop putting everything on an 8-year-old and a 4-year-old and a 15-year-old when you can't even handle it. Look, that is not being judgmental towards you either. But I want to shake us up a little bit and say we have to grow up. We have to change ourselves. Right?

And I get it. Your kids are difficult. And most of your kids are a pain in the butt. They are. Guess what? Casey was a huge pain in the butt. Didn't go to bed on time. Super emotional.

Got upset about everything. Didn't listen to his teachers. Couldn't do his schoolwork. Everything was difficult. If one parent took him out, wife took him out, he was just fine. If both took him out, he was a terror. Couldn't go to dinner, couldn't go in public, couldn't go to different places, couldn't do anything. Forget about family get-togethers because he was always awful. Everything was a pain with Casey. But guess what? He was a kid and I was the grown-up and nothing changed until I finally said, maybe I should change how I view my son.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what's going on. Maybe I should be a little bit more patient. And instead of dismissing everything in his life, I should listen and figure out a different way to communicate with him and change that. That's what I want. Stop focusing on how disobedient your kids are and instead focus on how can you become

that trustworthy person that your son want and daughter want to listen to? How can you deescalate situations? Because I guarantee you, if you've got an older child, you've had these situations blow up 40 times, 400 times. And you keep reading books and searching the internet for how can I get my son to stop doing that when the answer was there all along,

which is it's not about changing his response. It's about changing yours. And if you learn how to deescalate situations, which is completely in your control and your power, completely, it has nothing to do with your child. Within minutes of listening to this podcast, within hours or a day, you're going to have some kind of power struggle with your strong-willed child. Your teenage daughter is going to come home with an attitude. They're going to mouth off. They're going to tell you, no, I don't want to do it. They're going to complain and cry over doing homework. They're not going to listen to you when you ask them to take out the trash, something's going to happen. And the decision

point is not how are you going to get that child to do X. It's going to be what are you going to do differently in that moment? Because you begin the escalation by reacting to them. And when you learn how to control yourself, when you learn how to calm them down, when you learn how to be the trustworthy person that is worthy of being listened to and respected and trusted because it's happened again and again and again where they see that you don't react to them and you don't escalate and you don't dismiss and you don't misjudge their motives and call them lazy and say you're not trying hard, you know, if you would just apply yourself and why do you have to be so difficult? You can change this. You can change this. But I would encourage you. The final thing is I want us to change the mindset from my entire goal for my child is to raise an obedient child. I don't think that works that well. I want to raise a child who's

curious, who's confident, who trusts me because I've earned that trust. And when it comes down to it, my son makes the right decisions. Why? Because he's a good thinker, because he can control himself, because he knows it's the right thing to do, and because ultimately he trusts his parents. Does that make sense? It just takes you from this whole wrangling over behavior to changing their hearts and changing your relationship. And I hope I never stop saying this. The quickest way to change your child's behavior is to first control your own. And even more importantly than that is this. The quickest way to change your child's behavior is by building a closer trusting relationship. Relationships change behavior.

Right? Does that make sense? And I guarantee you, I had a couple notes here at the bottom. Many of your kids have a lot of shame and embarrassment. That's where the meltdowns come from because they don't always, because they're often impulsive and they make bad decisions and then we get on them right away and there's this shame thing that hits them because they know what they did was wrong. But if we can show them a different way and teach them and show them how to do it, because discipline means to teach, right? We can change this and we can change this behavior by changing the relationship.

So I encourage you over Christmas, over the break, listen to the programs. Listen to the CDs. We show you how to rebuild your relationship step by step, how to calm yourself down. For that dad out there who had the abusive father, this is tough stuff, man. You're going to be changing your entire way of thinking for the past 28 or 35 years, however old you are, because this is what you grew up with. And the reason I was tough with you is because I've got to get it through to you that you can't go around

bossing kids around and think that they're just going to respect you and listen to you because you're bigger and older than them and because you're the father. Look, to this dad, and I don't know if you're listening or not, but look, the hardest work of your life is not going to be your job. It's going to be changing your mindset because you were abused as a child. Or if you weren't abused, you had a father like I did who just used this whole fear and intimidation approach. Or some of you have mothers who used a lot of guilt and manipulation. And you're going to have to change that. That's hard to do.

But when you change that, then you change generations in your family. Because everybody listening knows what's going to happen. This guy was abused as a child, and guess what? He's going to abuse his child. And guess what? His son is going to abuse his sister and grow up. And guess what? When he has kids, he's going to do the same thing.

And he may even abuse his wife. And his whole pattern continues. And so that dad out there, any of the dads, any of the moms, if you have trouble with this, if you've been abused, if you've had these fathers, email us, reach out to us, we'll help you. I'll walk step by step because this is hard, hard stuff. And I apologize if it came across as me being jerky or mean. I just want to speak forcefully to say, cut it out. Stop it. And see it in a different way. Because this doesn't work. And the reason I'm hard with it is because when I deal with men that are like this,

well, but I'm the authority figure. You're just weak. No, I'm not. But I also have a really good relationship with my son and he respects me, right? He does what I ask because he trusts me. And where you're headed with this approach is you're headed to an approach where you're constantly fighting your child. You're never going to be happy with them. They're never going to be happy with you. You're not going to have a relationship and they're not going to be happy with you. You're not going to have a relationship, and they're not going to follow the God that you want them to follow.

Because why would they? Because who wants to follow a God who's just up there bossing people around and who's PO'd all the time, ready to just punish people because they didn't obey? Who wants to follow a God like that? Who wants to follow a parent like that? Who wants to follow a boss at work like that? Who wants to follow a parent like that? Who wants to follow a boss at work like that? None of you. None of you that are all into this obedience stuff like a boss who treats you the way that you would treat your kids. Think about it sometime. You wouldn't want that kind of

boss. You want a boss. You listen to your boss. If you work hard for your boss, it's because you respect and trust him. Not because he can, right? It's not obedience to do things based on a paycheck, right? That's outward behavior. I hate you, boss, but I'll do what you say because I need the job. But look, let's go with this for a second. Inside, you resent that boss. You don't like that boss. You do what he or she says because he, I should have started with this, because that boss at work holds over you

on the authority figure who controls your money and your paycheck and your job and your career. And you will do what I say because I have a title that is above yours. And none of you are like, that's awesome. You will outwardly behave and obey him and do your work. But inside, I can guarantee you're like, he's a jerk. I hope he gets fired. And you're looking for another job.

And you're talking to all of your coworkers about that boss, about how much you despise him. Same thing happens in the family. Be that parent. If we can help you, let us know. Go to CelebrateCalm.com. Get the newsletter. Look for Christmas special. If you already have the CDs, get the No BS program.

It's another week we've got it on sale. It's ridiculously cheap right now. It will change generations of your family. So do it. Thank you all for listening. And if we can help you, just let us know. Thanks so much. Bye-bye.