Calm Parenting Podcast - Stop Lying & Stealing. Help for Adopted Kids. Alternatives to Spanking? #465

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Stop Lying & Stealing. Help for Adopted Kids. Alternatives to Spanking? #465 Most of our kids lie and you may be surprised why. Many of our kids—especially our adopted kids—steal. Kirk gives you creative strategies and scripts to stop the lying and stealing while building trust (without spanking or yelling). Visit https://celebratecalm.com/products to take advantage of our Spring Sale on The Get Everything Package. Get hundreds of practical strategies that really work with your strong-willed kids at 50% OFF of the normal price. AG1 AG1 is offering new subscribers a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3 & K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box. Go to https://drinkag1.com/calm HAPPY MAMMOTH Get 15% off on your entire first order at https://HappyMammoth.com with the code CALM at checkout.  COZY EARTH Wrap yourself and your kids in Cozy Earth luxury…with 40% OFF! Visit https://cozyearth.com/ and use my exclusive 40% off code CALM.  IXL LEARNING Get an exclusive 20% off an IXL membership when you sign up today at https://IXL.com/KIRK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One of the things I respect most about Mrs. Calm is that she makes her self-care a priority. Because in order to be your best self and be the best parent you can be, you can't do everything for the kids. You've got to make yourself a priority. Now, she loves Hormone Harmony and Complete Belly Health from HappyMammoth.com. Just use code CALM. You get 15% off your first order. Mrs. Calm is a stickler for healthy ingredients and products that make her feel like herself again. And that's why Hormone Harmony is the number one hormone balancing system in the U.S.

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at happymammoth.com with the code CALM at checkout. That's happymammoth.com with the code CALM at checkout. That's happymammoth.com with the code CALM. So a couple approached me after one of our live events and asked me this. Dad said, hey, we had four $100 bills in a cupboard after selling something, and then noticed that three of the bills were missing. Our daughter informed us that she had seen the missing

money in our son's room. Now I played like I didn't know. I got down at my son's eye level and I asked him if he had taken the money and he denied it. So I then placed him over my knee to give him a spanking and he confessed. And I admit that I was kind of irritated that he lied to my face and and then that kind of breaks our trust. So I gave him an extra spanking. What would you have done differently in this situation? That is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast.

So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us and our big spring sale at CelebrateCalm.com. So a few thoughts to come to mind. One is I have a very distinct bias here. I expect the kid to grab the $100 bills. I don't know if you've ever seen $100 bills,

but they're really cool looking and it's a lot of money. So I'd be shocked if a kid didn't go for that. Since the beginning of time, there have been countless stories of people wanting the forbidden fruit. It's human nature. My only question is, why did the kid only take three of the bills

and not all four? So I want you to know, you're not a bad parent if your child misbehaves, takes things, cuts the line, melts down, throws a tantrum, lies, and covers things up. I get tired of people judging you as parents because your kids act like kids. That's what they do. So why would this surprise us that a kid stole some tantalizing looking $100 bills? Am I excusing it? Absolutely not. Was it right of him to do it? Absolutely

not. I just don't get all that worked up and create all kinds of drama around this, wringing my hands and talking late at night in hushed tones, gveching over whether our child is a thief or a kleptomaniac or what did we do wrong. Number two, your child lied. That's normal And I will just throw this in there. If you have kids who have been adopted, and even if you adopted them from birth, a lot of those kids, I would say a majority of those kids are probably going to take things and lie about it.

It is so very common. And I will tell you in some ways, it's actually a good sign. It means your child has a conscience and knows he did something wrong. He knew he shouldn't have taken the $100 bills because kids from a young age know. You shouldn't steal, lie, hit, spit, throw things, say, I hate you mommy, and be mean to others.

They already know that. So when they naturally and impulsively misbehave, which is what they're supposed to do, kids are supposed to be impulsive, 35 year olds aren't, they know instinctively, oops I shouldn't have done that, now I might get in trouble for that and lose my toys or my video games or my car keys. So what do they do? They lie to see if they can get away with it. Look, there's no moral ambiguity here. There's no lead for a long lecture about stealing.

Please stop with those cringy lectures about, well, we just need to talk about integrity issues. I hate those. It's not an integrity issue. It's an impulse control issue. It's a human nature issue. So the boy in this story knew when he first set his eyes and fingers on those crisp $100 bills that it was wrong.

And that's why he hid them in his room. That's why he lied when asked about it, because he knew it was wrong and that's why he hid them in his room. That's why he lied when asked about it because he knew it was wrong but he didn't want the consequences. He didn't wanna get caught disappointing his parents. And in some cases, and this was I was telling dad, he was probably afraid of your reaction as he should have been given that you,

your reaction was over the top. You got frustrated, went too far. He was afraid of your reaction. He was afraid of the consequence you'd give. So he lied right to your face. Just think about this. Parents often say, well, we have kids who make up stories and lie, and it's a trust issue.

I know you do that is very true but I like to look at it from a different perspective. It's often a trust issue because your kids can't trust you and your reaction. They are afraid of your harsh reaction in this case a spanking out of frustration that they cannot trust you enough to tell you the truth. Does that make sense? See, it makes perfect sense to me and please note this. It's not just that our kids fear the consequences of getting caught. They don't like disappointing us and they often feel

embarrassed and ashamed by their behavior and they want to hide it. Sometimes they fear the anger and they dread the long lectures that we give. Please know also direct eye contact can be intimidating. Sometimes it's just too intense and at the time of their greatest shame we're staring right down into their souls. And that's why I prefer having hard talks while walking the dog together, riding in a car, building on the floor with Legos, coloring, playing catch,

working on a project in the garage, cooking together, side by side, next to each other. Not me against you. I've talked about this with our discipline, becomes I'm really frustrated at you, and it's me against you. And now the child is on the defensive. What were you thinking? How many times do I have to tell you that? And I'd rather come alongside of them and say look I'm curious I know that you know that is

wrong to do and I'm curious why did you do it because it just brings dire consequences upon you. See most of behavior, it doesn't offend me, it doesn't hurt me, you're just hurting yourself. And so what I want to become is that I want to come alongside and become the trusted person that they can look to to help them stop doing these things. Not just the angry person who's going to punish them. And you've got to watch and see where you got those ideas from that the authority figure just punishes you. Some of you it was your parents, some of you it was your religious upbringing and that will seep right into your own parenting. One thing I had to be aware of

is that I was more intimidating than I thought, even when I started becoming the calm dad, because my dad ruled our home and his four boys through fear and intimidation. It's not my goal. I don't want my son to listen to me because he fears me. I don't want him to obey out of obligation or fear. I want him to listen to me because he trusts me and he respects me. And that respect isn't because I'm the authority figure

It's because I've earned it because I'm trustworthy. I'm worthy of being trusted I wanted I wanted him to listen to me because Because he knows that I have his best interests at heart and I come alongside him to help him and that might be a little Mindshift for some of you. So this week, let's begin practicing this. Create an environment in which you make it easy for your child to tell you the truth without the shame and anger and reaction and drama. You want to wear it's just kind of an odd but effective idea and I encourage you practice this. You could tell your kids this, hey I want to apologize to you because I think I've made it

hard for you to come and tell me the truth because when you do and just fill in the blank, I lecture, I talk too long, I make you feel two inches tall, I react and get angry. See, I think that's just good honesty because that's what does happen. And what happens with our kids is they get in the habit of lying. It just becomes a reflexive habit for many of your kids. So you could work on this together and tell your kids, I want you to practice a couple of things.

I want you to practice telling me the truth, things that are hard, things that might you be afraid to tell me. And I promise you, I telling me the truth. Things that are hard, things that might you be afraid to tell me. And I promise you, I will not lecture, react, or get angry. See, you're both physically practicing a new skill in your home, I love that. Point number three, this slight game of gotcha here

by the dad, that was dishonest, right? You asked him if he had taken the dollar bills, but you already knew that he had, unless your daughter is a psychopath who planted the dollar bills in his room to make them look bad. So in a way, what you did as the dad here was a form of entrapment that didn't need to happen.

And look, we all do these things. If you know that your child didn't wash her hands or brush her teeth or do her homework, stop asking her if she did when you already knew that she didn't. That is dishonest to yourself. It's not a trustworthy way of handling these situations because you're basically kind of asking your child to lie. And then you're going to ask, but why won't my child just tell me the truth? Well, do you ever tell your spouse or friends or own parents white lies or just flat out lie

to spare an uncomfortable situation or drama? Probably. Look, it would be kind of surprising if at first the kid looked right into his parents' eyes and said, hey, I took that money and then I hid it in my room. And then when you asked, I'd lied and deceived you. Look, I'm picturing the end of a Scooby-Doo episode where the kid says, and my evil plot would have succeeded

if not for that rat-fink sister who ratted me out. And this is, look, this is possible to do. It is possible to teach your kids to be honest. We got there with Casey by practicing and a mom just emailed last week and said, it worked by changing my reaction instead of my kids. They're now being upfront and honest. I never thought this would work.

I always thought they had integrity issues, but it was my reactions all along. You know, for a lot of kids You know what they they really fear most. It's just our reaction. It's that disappointment and that shame It's not so much taking things away Okay. Now what about the spanking issue? Let's just cover that really quickly So let's geek out together for a minute over gut health because I'm really into this I just learned that prebiotics are the food that help fuel the growth of healthy

bacteria, the probiotics in your gut. So you have to have both and that's why AG1 helps my digestion, calms my stomach and keeps me regular. Look, I've loved my morning AG1 routine for years, long before AG1 became a wonderful partner to the podcast. It's a quick, easy win because I start my day with 75 vitamins, probiotics, prebiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients. I just don't have that stomach distress anymore, where that bloating, you know, that kind of

interferes with your day and puts you on edge. Plus, my weight is down. I've got energy for this hiking season. I'm drinking my AG-1 right now while I'm recording this and I think you should as well. AG-1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift when you sign up. You'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3 and K2, which I love, and 5 free travel packs in your first box. So check out drinkag1.com slash calm to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com slash calm to be kind to your gut. So I don't feel the need to spend a lot of time on spanking because I can give you at least 10, 15, 20 more effective ways to discipline your child to actually teach without any of the downsides. Cause look, the dad in this case

gave an extra spanking out of frustration. That's a no-go. That is a relationship destroyer. It's humiliating and it's just unnecessary and ineffective with strong willed kids. It just doesn't work. So do the other 20 things instead. Number five, here is what I would rather do.

Whether you do this face to face or while playing catch or building with Legos, I would say this kind of in a casual, direct way. Hey, I know you took those $300 bills from the cupboard. I'm not mad, I'm not angry, I get it. I know that you know that was wrong and that's why you hid the bills. Mom and I have to run to the store for about an hour.

When we're gone, just put the dollar bills back, hundred dollar bills back where you found them and we won't mention it again. Now, that would be a simple, honest way to deal with it. No gotcha, no big dance, no drama. You give him an opportunity to do what's right and make restitution without making it into some big, complicated drama, without putting him in a position to lie again,

without having to do the walk of shame in front of everyone. It's kind of a merciful way to handle it. I know some of you are going to kind of chafe at that, but I guarantee you, you would not want to have your secret adult behaviors exposed because we'll have them. You wouldn't want to have things exposed adult behaviors exposed because we'll have them. You wouldn't want to have things exposed in front of your family or friends or have to answer for it all the time. You'd be embarrassed and ashamed. We've all messed up. How many of you wish you could have a second chance to right some of your past

wrongs? Consider what else we reinforce by handling it this way. I am telling my child, I know you know the right thing to do. I know you're a good kid who made an impulsive choice. I believe in you. That is way more powerful than what we'd usually do with our kids who frequently beat themselves up inside saying, I'm so stupid. I'm a bad kid. So let's consider the two outcomes.

Look, I believe in 95% of the cases, the child will just be relieved to have an out and put back the stolen goods. But let's say you come home and the $100 bills are not back in the cupboard. Now look, my initial response would be severe disappointment anger. I'd be PO'd beyond belief that I went to all this trouble to be kind and patient and calm and then the little lying thief

doesn't even take advantage of my mercy. I would want to run upstairs to his bedroom and lay into him. That's normal. Being calm doesn't mean you don't feel angry, frustrated, disappointment and have vengeful thoughts. It means you don't act on those feelings because that's what ends up causing pain, broken relationships, and situations to escalate. So you take a minute to process this and then you slowly walk upstairs just to slow your confused angry thoughts inside down. I would consider taking maybe a pencil, paper, crayon, or some Legos or something else to my child's room. I'd sit on the floor and begin drawing or building.

And I think in this case, I'd let the tension fill the room a little bit. There's nothing wrong with that. See if your child offers up anything. If not, you can start and say, I'm curious why the three $100 bills weren't put back yet. Now there are different, ten different ways this could go, but let's say your child just really digs in and insists I didn't take them,

but you are positive that he did. I don't think I would try to reason with him right then. I think I just drop it and let him think about it overnight. I might say the offer still stands. At any point tonight, if you put the money back, this incident will be forgotten and not mentioned again. If you don't, then that is going to affect whether we can trust you from now on and we will be disappointed. So give that some thought and I love you.

And under some circumstances, I could just leave him in his room to think about it. I also don't have a problem with inviting him to play catch to watch a video together to resume your life. In this case, I don't think it's necessary to hang this dark cloud over family life, or just over this, though it would eat me up inside, like why is he doing this? Why is he digging in?

Eventually you will get the money returned or find it when he goes to school. I doubt you'll get this far, but I would have no problem withholding buying things for him, right? Like not talking about starving him, talking about until you get the money back. If you have a friend in the local police department, you could say hey

If the money is not back in pie tomorrow We're going to be forced to call the police to come investigate who stole money from our home I don't really recommend that because it might traumatize your child and i'm not into traumatizing kids, right? But what i'm saying is you could use an option like that, but I don't think you'll need to. Option two, what I think will happen is you come home from the grocery store and you see the money put back there. Here's what I want you to do and not wanna do.

Do not make a big deal out of it. No big praise. Look, this kid did what it was expected of him both times. He took the shiny dollar bills. I kind of expect that. Look, do I really expect it? No, but I'm not shocked by it, right? And then he put them back and that's what was expected too because it was the right thing to do. And you're not raising a sociopath. You're just raising a little impulsive kid, or maybe a tall impulsive kid. So maybe just a little fist bump in passing

and then move on with your day. See, that promotes trust because now he can trust that you're not gonna freak out when he does tell you the truth and you don't escalate something normal into some major issue and wring your hands and lecture endlessly about integrity and trust and we can't, none of that.

Separately from this incident, really begin practicing new skills. We did this in our home and it's dorky and uncomfortable times, but we would role play, why? Because role play is practicing new behavior. So your kids need to practice verbally saying, Hey mom, dad, I didn't do my assignment. I didn't do my chores. Have them practice it and then you practice not overreacting, not grimacing, not lecturing.

And you get to say, hey, that's cool. That takes courage. And I'm proud of you. I like how you handle that. Now, here's something I hadn't planned to do, but we have time. Many of you have those kids who do steal things, and I mentioned adopted kids. I'll give you an example, and you can take this kind of run with it. So we're working with this family and had a daughter,

and she would take things from her mom's bedroom, little jewelry and shoes and trinkets and little things. And so the parents did everything you're supposed to do. Honey, you can't do that if you keep doing that. You're gonna lose X and Y. All those things, they didn't matter. What we have to do is retrain her because in a lot of these kids,

it is something where they feel a certain lack inside. It's something emotional deep down, and it's a compulsion. It's not like it's a rational choice all the time. And so what we did is we got this little box and we created this cool little treasure box and we put in it some little trinkets, little cheap stuff from the dollar store. And here's what we said, honey, I know this is hard.

Every time you get that impulse to go up to my room and take something inappropriate, instead come in, grab two things from the treasure box, and then come and show me what you got. And so what I'm trying to retrain is that impulse that you have is going to be there, I want to grab something, it's physical, it's tactile, I have it now in my hands. And instead of going there, because one of the principles is whenever you tell kids, whenever you say no to something

inappropriate, always give them something appropriate to do. And then when the daughter comes and shows, mom look what the pretty things that I got, you can say you know what honey, That was a really cool choice because I know you really, really wanted to come up here and take something from my room, but instead you went to the little treasure chest, fist bump, hug. See, we're starting to give intensity

and positive affirmation to making the good choices. Now, when the daughter inevitably messes up because they will, your kids are going to mess up, plan for that and take something from mom's jewelry box or some of her clothes, she can go in and say, I get it, that's tough, so what's the appropriate thing to do? And now the daughter goes back and puts it back and the mom, dad can reinforce and say I love how you did that That's the appropriate response. We're not always perfect, but then we make things right And what you're slowly starting to teach and show your child is you get all of my intensity you get my intense emotional engagement When you do things well when you make a courageous choice.

And here's one other thing I would add to this. When the child messes up, I would like to teach what we've been talking about here for her to come and say, hey mom, I just took this from your room. And now you get to say, that was courageous, because you knew you did something you weren't supposed to but you were honest about it. Man, that shows me you're really growing up.

See how that works? That's how I wanna do the discipline stuff. We have all kinds of stuff on this on that updated discipline that works program. But the whole point of that is I wanna start teaching kids. And then the main point becomes this. It's not really just about changing the child's behavior, although we did that, it's about building the trusting the relationship that says you can always trust that I have your best interests at heart.

You can tell me anything and I'm here to come alongside you and help you and that is critical when your kids are little and critical when they're teens and I can tell to come alongside you and help you. And that is critical when your kids are little and critical when they're teens. And I can tell you, it's really cool when your kids are in their late 20s, when they come to you and they're like, mom, dad, I could really use your help with this. See, that's a higher form of discipline

because it shifts it away from about being changing behavior to being based on a two-way trusting relationship and that's what I am after. So this week let's practice being the trustworthy parent, the calm authoritative leader that comes alongside and helps moms and dads keep crushing it. You're such good moms and dads. We appreciate you breaking these generational patterns, working so hard at this. If we can help in any way, just let us know. Okay, love you all.

Talk to you next time. Bye-bye.