Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 004 - Natalie Eva Marie

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

Natalie Eva Marie is a fashion and fitness model, actor, “Total Diva”, WWE superstar and as of late an ultramarathoner and hunter. She’s also a badass. Hope you enjoy our discussion. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Natalie: Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/natalieevamarie/ https://www.instagram.com/nemfit/?hl=en https://www.instagram.com/nemfashion/?hl=en https://www.instagram.com/reignbodyfuel/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/natalieevamarie Twitter: https://twitter.com/natalieevamarie   Special thanks to our sponsors. MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com First Light: https://www.firstlight.farm Leupold: https://www.leupold.com Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com Hoyt: https://hoyt.com Bass Pro / Cabellas: https://www.basspro.com   Timestamps: 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:00 Why the pink hair?  0:03:17 Total Divas  0:05:30 Developing confidence  0:07:40 Daily battles for sobriety and Natalie’s journey 0:14:50 Natalie’s turning point and Jonathan 0:21:51 “When God puts you in the right place, things move quick” 0:22:20 Getting used to WWE  0:24:00 Natalie’s early sports career and soccer 0:27:27 Children not believing Mom and Dad 0:28:42 A girl amongst boys 0:31:10 Embracing the villain role 0:38:20 Directing your focus towards encouragement  0:41:37 Villain mode on social media 0:44:41 WWE opportunities  0:48:30 The beautiful part of Instagram 0:52:00 Stay the course 0:58:40 Life is difficult, no matter what 1:01:00 Blood Origins 1:01:40 Getting started in hunting and PETA’s influence 1:08:00 Misconceptions of hunting 1:10:45 Training for hunting 1:12:45 Providing for your family via hunting 1:15:10 A different voice for hunters 1:17:58 Women in the hunting world 1:19:50 Depicting hunting in the right light 1:22:00 The fair chase reward 1:30:00 The connection to the game you harvest 1:34:20 Man managing animal numbers 1:38:31 Training with Cam and Natalie's ultramarathon 1:43:00 Living what you promote 1:44:45 Welcoming Natalie to the archery community  1:47:00 Sponsorships

Black Rifle Coffee Company is a company that's very easy for me to promote because I drink coffee all day, every day. But more importantly, they are a huge supporter of the veteran community and are a veteran-known business, so they have my full support. Use code Keep Hammering for 20% off your first order and 20% off subscription to the coffee club, where you get exclusive coffee blends and merchandise. I'd like to mention a long-time partner of mine, Mountedop supplements. I take their products every day and they keep me performing at my best year after year. I should also note that my son Truitt works for the company, so I have firsthand knowledge of their focus on faith, family, and fitness. It makes it really easy to partner with the company whose values align with mine.

They have a special deal for you guys right now for the podcast launch. If you use code Keep Hammering on a purchase of $75 or more, you get a free Keep Hammering BCAA and my new signature flavor pineapple. I'm all about high-level performance, and the BCAs really help me perform. Okay, we're going to start the Keep Hammering Collective with Natalie Eva Marie. and first time having a supermodel fashion icon, WWE superstar ever in the studio. Hey, we're already starting off great because compliments get you everything.

So I'm excited to be here. Oh, I'm so pumped. I mean, I've had some great guests, but it's like you bring this whole special flare into wherever you are. I know in the bow rack yesterday, people were like, what the heck is going on? Who is this Viking looking supermodel shooting a bow?

it's awesome. I think it might be my hair. I think my hair throws people off, but I guess my personality kind of goes with it, right? So when did the hair, when did you switch? What was the decision there? So my natural hair color is black. And then when I first signed with the WWE in 2013,

I didn't realize it then, but I made the best business decision, I think, ever in the sense of, the majority of the girls had, you know, natural colored hair. The roster was just with Burnett, blonde, and that was pretty much where everyone lived. Yeah. And so when I got the job, I got asked if I would dye my hair platinum blonde because there was a lot of girls on the reality show, Total Divas, because I got my contract at the same time as the reality show. which was just God put me in the right place at the right time.

So on that show, there's too many burnets, basically. Gotcha. And I'm Mexican-Italian. I've been blonde in high school, and it's not a good look for me. And plus, I was like, oh, I'll be bald in a couple of months trying to continue to bleach my hair. So I was listening to Rihanna's album where she had that just crazy, bright red hair. And I made a game time decision and went with. with that crazy red hair.

And then I never looked back. So I've been a lot of color since. So I was red in the WWE, which created my little all red everything hashtag. And then I went to black for a movie. And then I went to purple. And then now I'm in pink. Yeah.

Yeah. And you're feeling good with pink? Is that the power color? Well, it's funny because naturally people think pink is like my favorite color because they see my hair, which makes sense. But it really isn't my favorite color at all. If anything, it's probably my least favorite color, which is ironic considering I put it on my head.

But we're at a little over two years being pink, and that's usually where I get the itch wanting to change. Yeah. So we'll see how much longer the pink lives. Gotcha. Yeah. Well, yeah, it sounds like a good decision. So the W.W.E.

That made you stand out. Exactly. Were you on the diva? I was on the Total Diva show, which basically it kind of showcased and peeled back the curtain of the W.W.E. At the time, we were called divas. Now everyone's called superstars. But the women of the W.W. trying to not navigate being on the road, balancing family, balancing traveling.

And then on top of that, myself and another girl were like brand spanking new. We had done our tryout and got developmental deals, which I always refer to like AAA and baseball. You have, you know, you go, you try out. If you make it, you get a contract. And then you work on not only learning how. to wrestle, your character, all of the things that you need, all the mechanics, and then you hopefully get called up to the big leagues, which is, exactly, the main roster, Monday Night Raw,

Smackdown. So I had previously tried out for that, got my developmental contract, but at the same time, WWE was putting together this reality show. And so they made a decision where they really wanted to capture two girls that had nothing, didn't know anything about the business, didn't know how to wrestle, and kind of showcase that on the show as well. So like I said, I was right time, right place. Yeah. Thank you, God. What does it take to be a diva? Well, honestly, it just takes being super confident and going for whatever it is that you want. And like really. That's diva mode right there.

That is. Yeah. And being unapologetic and being comfortable in your own skin. Have you always been confident? Damn, Cam. Are we getting a deep or something here? No, I just, I mean, because just, I see how you act now. I was wondering, like, in high school.

Oh, God. When you'd hit a balloon like you did yesterday, remember what you said? Yeah, yeah. Is that what you do on the soccer pitch if you'd make a goal? What do you say when you hit that balloon? I don't know if I can't really. I can't really. I don't think of repeat it.

My mouth sometimes, you know, gets away from me. Yeah. I see sometimes out of the corner of my eye, my husband looking at me like, oh, like, oh, like, wheel it in. But no, I don't think so. I mean, I think confidence is something that you have to work on every single day. Because ultimately that comes from being super secure with yourself and what you're doing, which I kind of think correlates into what you do on a daily, you know, with your daily habits. Lift, run, shoot.

It's kind of the same thing with myself in the sense of, you know, I work a 12-step program. So making sure that's obviously God and that is my number one priority. because without my sobriety without God, like I'm not sitting, like I'm not supposed to be here today talking to you. Like, this is wild. Like, my life is insane. You hear it all the time.

It's very cliche in AA meetings, but you hear once you actually take, make that choice and get sober and do the deal because it's all about, they always say it's a simple program, but you got to put the work in. You got to, it's actionable steps on a daily, basis, you can have a life beyond your wildest dreams, sitting here with Cameron Haynes,

a life beyond my wildest dreams. Like, that's what it's all about. And it's a testament to being, doing the program, doing the deal. In March of this year, I'll have God willing, I'll have 10 years of sobriety. So it's been a journey, man. Yeah. It's been a journey. Well, great job. I mean, yeah. Why do you so many people get sober and then fall back? Because it's hard. And you have to battle your demons every single day. You got to show up. And I mean, that's why I love guys like yourself and Gog and seeing you guys actually together and seeing how you guys get after it every single day is something inspiring because it's a daily choice. It's a daily thing that you have. It's a daily reprieve that you have to kind of face. So I got sober first at 23.

And it's kind of, it's crazy because after reading your book, obviously following you on social for many, many years, like we talked about yesterday. I was trying to kind of track down and figure out how long I've been actually following you. And it's definitely been six or seven years, which is nutty if you think about it. But that's like really wild. time we've met just yesterday. Yeah, I know, which is crazy because I feel like you're like my boy from a long time ago, you know? Um, so I first got sober at 23 and I thought like I knew everything. So when I would walk into the rooms and I would hear stuff about how easily like, you know,

you fall off and you can relapse and things of that nature. I'm sitting back being like, they're weak or whatever. Totally. Like you guys have no idea like, nah. You guys are soft. Yeah. Fast forward. Three years later, I, you know, racked together three years of sobriety and all the things, the promises and things that they say once you're doing the work started coming back. Like I was starting to be a normal citizen in society, meaning I got my driver's license back. Just normal things that normal people don't even lose.

I was getting actually back. And so then that little voice. That always wants to, that bitch is trying to take me out every day. Yeah. Yeah. Sabotage you. Totally. And being like, you're good.

You were young. You know, it was, you're all right. So then I called my sponsor, Mo. And I was like, Mo, I love you. Thank you so much. I'm good. Yeah. And she obviously was like, well, we don't recommend that.

Yeah. But okay. Say, lovey. Yeah. Good luck. And within nine months, you know, I was back running and gunning, and it took me a while. And thankfully, sometimes people don't have, people don't make it back in the rooms.

Yeah. So now that I'm obviously older and been through some more life, I realize I'm really, really lucky that I made it back in the rooms and stayed with it. You know, I called my original sponsor back with my tail between my legs. and I was like, hi, Mao. Yeah. Will you,

basically, will you, will you take me back? Was this, did something happen? Did you? Um, I mean,

my life started to go right back to crumbling and, um, very much not the way that I was raised. Like my parents are my heroes. Uh, and they, what I was doing was not who I was supposed to be. I was not living up.

to my potential. But then again, addiction and alcoholism runs deep in my family. I never got to meet my grandfather because he passed away when my dad was 15 or 16 from cirrhosa of the liver. So it's one of those things where what my parents have done to provide and give a better life for myself and my brothers is something now that I'm older, I mean, I, I, can't pay them enough just because, I mean, I appreciate everything that they've, they've laid down for me.

Like hard work and all of it. Just a strong family. Discipline, hard work. The fact that my dad didn't have a father figure and was able to take himself to where he is not only with my mom and my mom, I mean, like we kind of. touched on. You know, I'm a Mexican-Italian, so my mom and my grandparents came over from Mexico and worked their ass off for everything that they have. And then also my parents built that American dream. And also, culture capital is huge in the sense of providing just the chance,

just the opportunity for your kids to have something better than you had. And my parents did that by, you know, my dad was, they were both living in Oakland. And then they moved out to Concord to, you know, a nice little middle class neighborhood where they were fake in the funk trying to be amongst, you know, people that were a little bit doing the damn thing. But schools and everything to give us the opportunity. So the fact that all of a sudden I was kind of throwing that out the window and tearing my life apart was, you know, something that I can't believe that I did looking back. But then sometimes, you know, you have to go through the agony and all the mess to enjoy the beauty. And I wouldn't change anything now either. Obviously, going through it was horrible.

And I can't believe it. My mom is my best friend. I talk to my parents every single day. I FaceTime them. And the fact, it also shows their strength. Because anything that myself, I won't put all my brother shit out on the street. They probably appreciate that. Yeah, I know.

No, I'll get a call and be like, you know what? Talk about yourself. Leave me out of it. But, you know, to see the strength of them to go through all of the, trials and tribulations of life and then also raising kids and then seeing like your kids kind of not living up to how they were raised in the sense of the discipline, the morals, the values, all of those things can tear a couple apart. Yeah. And the fact that my parents are still together, they'll be celebrating 50 years in June. So there's a rock stars. So they're everything to me.

and it was one of those, well, I ended up in rehab. So that's what you said, the turning point. Yeah. Like, was there what brought me back? I ended up in rehab. I put myself through, which if you're not ready to get sober, it's not going to work. Right. You know, you got to make the choice yourself.

No one's, no one, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink type thing. I met my husband. and that was a game changer because at that moment it was super pivotal. I had, you always hear people talk about that was like forks in the road. Yeah. Thank God. Like, thank you, Jesus.

That I didn't bust the left and have my like ego or that just self-sabotaging voice. Yeah. Be louder than the other one. and realize this is like this is a huge monumental moment in my life. And if I don't make the right decision, you're never going to have that opportunity again, meaning I met the man of my dreams. I had just gotten my third callback from WWE to do my in-ring tryout

to see if you can like handle because it was a, I went on a WWE diva search. Right. They don't do them anymore. So things were looking good Things were looking good And I was still a mess Yeah

Which is wild What I remember too is like You always Everybody wants to go out Because you think you're missing something Totally But then you go out You don't miss it

Nothing happens I mean it's the same stupid shit Totally So you think you're missing it I got to be out there Then you go out You gotta get a little buzz Just whatever

And then when it's over it's just like nothing ever happened. Mm-hmm. You wouldn't have, you didn't miss shit. Not a thing. But you, and then I remember too when I was, you know, I struggled with drinking too. And it's just like, you felt bad from drinking and then you drink to mass that pain. Totally.

Because you let it, you're like, I'm letting everybody down. I just don't want to deal with this. So then, then you want to be, not deal with reality. You get kind of fogged over. Which is a mess. Like that cycle is so, like, even just saying it out loud, you're, you're, you're, you're, You're masking feeling bad because you were upset with yourself for even drinking and now you're mad at it. It's just like, what are you doing?

The cycle is so insane. You'll never win. You'll never win. So I ended up relapsing. I mean, it's the worst. I apologize to my husband for putting it out there. But it's a real factual story that went down and that's what made everything kind of really change. I had just met Jonathan.

We were going out to Vegas. And at this time, I'm probably racked up. I fresh out of rehab, by the way, didn't tell him because, I mean, that's not good. That's not the greatest eye break icebreaker. Nice to meet you. Just out of rehab. So I'm a winner. Yeah, get ready for a bunch of problems.

Yeah, exactly. So I was not trying to have basket case written on my forehead. So it was his best friend's bachelor, bachelor. party out in Vegas. Oh, no. So I'm like, I got this, right? Yeah. I go out there with him. Everything is great. And then everyone wants it's ready to go out that evening. So then the first thing is everyone gets past a shot. And everyone pours, obviously, I don't tell Jonathan that, you know, I'm recovering alcohol. And it comes to me. I don't even think about it. It was. It was, was just like done boom throw it back and all of a sudden I'm off to the races the following day

Jonathan looks at me and is like you're an alcoholic and then he called my mom uh it was wild wow but he's extremely smart so he just obviously saw it out the gate and then and he's ultimate hype man I'll say I mean he is just like his personality and spirit is so positive and uplifting. So definitely got, that worked out good. But for him to call it that most people in a new relationship, they don't want to call out somebody's shit. Oh, my God.

So the fact that he did that so, and obviously you trusted it, it was pretty powerful. It really was, but I think it was also because he had seen something in me from just like my discipline with working, my drive, what I wanted. in life, he saw that prior to the relapse, right? So he saw something within me.

And then when he saw that, that's when he said, you know, you have a serious problem. And then obviously I came clean. And then we had the serious talk in the sense of he basically gave me the ultimatum. Like, if you want anything to work right here, then you not only have to be sober, but you have to work a program. And that was that pivotal moment where I'm like, okay, well, what am I want? The old me would have been like, fuck this dude. I'm out, you know, running away or it's not going my way. So, bing, done.

Why was it different? Something about him. Something about him definitely was. He, like I told you yesterday, he's the calm to my storm. Yeah. You know, I'm a tornado. So he's able to wheel me in and go in the right direction. but what I also appreciate is he doesn't put up my shit like I will run the show and have no

problem running the show but I need someone to put me in the place as well and so um him being that anchor was super important that I and then I saw that because previously I kind of can like manipulate and yeah run run over uh relationship you know, especially if things aren't going my way. And he kind of didn't really allow that to happen. So I made the decision, called my sponsor with my tail between my legs, and I asked her to take me back. And she did.

And then that's when my life got amazing. I got, I started my in-ring tryout. And then Jonathan, he was working at Blizzard Entertainment, the gaming company. So he's a big nerd. Yeah. And he would pack my lunches and have all my stuff dialed nutrition-wise because I've never wrestled. Soccer is my sport.

So even when I first started, just the drills, the rolls, hitting the ropes, I remember not being able to like lift my legs. So sore. So sore. What bruised up or? All of it. Yeah. Everything.

Because it's completely different muscles. Mm-hmm. And he was just dialed. So when God puts you in the right place at the right time, things move quick. And I got that in-ring tryout after four weeks. Then I got the possibility to, they couldn't tell me at the time that it was a reality show, but they wanted me to go on this like interview, audition type thing where you basically sit in a green screen and then you just get hammered, a ton of questions. Was it pretty competitive?

Was there a lot of girls going for that? For the original developmental contract, yes. But then once it got down to the in-ring trial, we started with, I believe, 17, but after the first day, four dropped because it's all of it's real. People want to say that wrestling is fake? Yes, of course. It's all predetermined. Your characters are larger than life. But the physicality is real.

You can't fake that. You can't slam into the canvas. Yeah. Right. No one's trying to knock somebody out like the UFC. Right. Very, very different sports. One sports entertainment.

You know, you have to remember that. But the physicality to do it. So when you take an actual bump, which is just, you know, where you see somebody getting a clothes line and they take them, their back hits the mat. Yeah. That shit hurts. Yeah. And your first time doing it, I mean, it definitely. takes the wind out of your.

Which is a wake-up call for a lot of girls. Oh, for sure. They're like, yeah, no, thank you. They're in Los Angeles. Yeah, exactly. I didn't send up for this shit. It's funny because when I first told Jonathan, I was like, yeah, I'm about to go on this opportunity letting him know also that if this relationship were to proceed, don't be that

guy. That's going to try to like make me stay because if I get this, I'm moving to Tampa because that's where their developmental facility was. and his first reaction was like, why do you want to get hit in the face? Like, what? But then once he actually understood, ultimately, it had everything that I wanted to do into one. So why I related to your story also is because sports and everything was huge in my life. So growing up, wanted to be with my brothers, wanted to play anything that they were playing and be better than them.

So when I got into high school, I played every sport, a soccer, volleyball track. And then soccer really was one that I kind of started to hone in on. And then once that dream, like after college, was kind of taken away or like I stopped because I ended up not believing in myself. This is where my dad still to this day has a regret Because they never really pushed us like you should do this Yeah They allowed us to make the choice Make the choice

And so I made the choice Because I tore my ligaments in my ankle my senior year So I made the choice That my senior year is like I'm gonna be done You know even though I came back And played the remaining season I made the choice to hang up my cleats, right? And which my dad was not happy about.

Disappointed, yeah. So I went to my junior college and then had the bug. And I was like, I'm going to go try out. Went, tried out, made the team. I got first team all league both years. And then I was like, okay, cool. Now I'm going to hang up my like. Ready to move on.

Ready to move on. but which was a mistake because I ultimately transferred it to Arizona State and then transferred back to California, Cal State Fullerton, and then wanted to play. So I went, talked to the coach, walked on, tried out, got it, and then had to go see the athletic director, and they were like, sorry, NCAA rules. Your clocks run out.

Oh, man. Five years from when you started. Yes. Yeah. So it's a perfect example of like self-belief, right? Yeah. Yeah. You're your own worst enemy. So it's like you have to face yourself every single day.

And the belief is imperative with anything that we do in our life. Yeah. It can take you there or it can take you out. Right. Regardless of obviously you have to be honest and say like, am I good enough? Well, I battled with that because I was like, I don't. I don't know. Yeah.

I think that I am, but I never really felt like I was, you know? So it was, that was definitely crazy. So the moment that happened, then I was like deflated. Right. And then beat myself up. And then now I had no real discipline. Goal. Yeah.

Yeah. The gym, the playing, showing up for your team being a leader that gives you something. That fuels you. Yeah. And you show up for other people. So then once that's removed Yeah, there's no accountability. Oh my God, that's when shit was all on and popping.

Yeah. And then the beast came out. And that beast was not pretty and not good. And that's where things like went downhill real quick, real fast. Right. So which ultimately led into, you know, obviously having to get sober and everything. I wonder why do kids not want to listen to their parents about like pushing hard enough or not drink? Right.

It's just like. because now that I'm older and now I have nieces and nephews and then now that we live in Texas I'm back next to my childhood best friend and so I get to see like her twins and it's really really crazy how it's just like innate in children to not want to believe mom and dad yeah it's wild I have no idea why that is something in them but when your mom and dad is saying something thing to you, it's probably because they already went through it and they're not trying to have you make the same mistakes and save you the grief and the pain.

But on the flip side, I'm very much the type of person where I got to watch my brothers kind of make certain mistakes. You would think that I would learn from that because I'm like literally watching it happen in front of me and seeing the results. Yeah. Yet I'm the type of person that's like, it is going to be different for me. Like, let me give this a gun. Let me give this a shot.

Yeah. People have to fall on their face on their own, I guess. Yeah. First Light Farms has been a great sponsor of the podcast because bottom line, not everybody gets their bowl every year. So some people's freezer isn't filled with elk meat. For people like that, they want an option of how can they eat elk meat that's great tasting? And really as close to wild as you can get.

because if you look where these elk are raised in New Zealand, it's mountainous country. So if you're looking for an option of great tasting, lean, high quality protein, check out First Light Farms. Hoyt archery has been my bow hunting sponsor since 2005. And personally, I really don't care what bow you shoot, what brand it is. I just hope that you have the same level of confidence in your equipment as I have in mine. Because I know if I get one opportunity with my Hoyt, it's going to pay off. So your brothers, they were athletic? Yeah, all of them.

Right? Yeah. That probably made you pretty tough hanging out with them. Is that why you were good at sports? I think so. I think it was one of those things where my mom, she always says the story is I was about four. And she takes me down to like a local little beauty pageant. And I get out there.

I'm in this little dress, whatever, and I walk the little runway. and the judges or people there were like, oh my gosh, you know, we love her, we want her, all this great things. But I told my mom, I'm like, I don't want to do this. I want to go home. I want to play baseball with the boys because I knew that's what they were doing right at that moment. Right.

And so my mom was like, okay. And then that was it. Your beauty page days were over. That was it. That was done. And I never looked back. So I think I wore, I mean, I'm very much a tomboy at heart. So all the way through high school, I was like in a sports bra and a wife beater going to school.

Yeah. That was, that was me. Jonathan likes to make fun of the fact that he'll go back to my parents' house and see photos and be like, who is this? Like, I have no clue. But I just wanted to be like one of them. Yeah. You know, it was very much. I loved them.

I thought they were like the coolest because of them. They were all older. So I wanted to whatever I possibly could do to hang out with them. And if that meant how to step my game up and be able to play with them. Like I remember even playing in our swimming. So my dad and my godfather, they built a pool in our backyard. So playing pickle in the pool, you know, from the deep end step to the, how to step my game up and learn how to play that so I could play the play.

the games with all the guys, you know, because I didn't want to just be sitting out on the sideline watching. How many times did you run in crying from getting hurt? You know, what's crazy about that? I probably maybe once. Really? Because the moment that I did that, they were like, you'll never play with us again. So I had to really bite my left, like immediately.

Yeah. Huh. So. Oh, that's good. So in regard to the WWE stuff. Yeah. So you were the bad guy, the villain. Immediately.

Yeah. Why? I think multiple reasons. I think one, with anything like coming into something, perfect example, hunting, right? Sometimes there is this thing of having to, who is this person and they haven't paid their dues, right? So in wrestling, it's in the sense of there's an independent circuit, people that are training, trying to make it into, whether it's WWE's developmental program, then to the main roster. So usually if you say from the independent circuit, you make it into the developmental of WWE, then you're usually in developmental for like a minimum of three years, right? And that's a, that's pretty fast.

Three years and then you get called up, hopefully. What is the pay difference between that and the big show? Very big. Yeah. However, the positive is you're able to fully focus once you, I mean, it's not, it's not, it's not amazing. At the time for me, I was like, this is amazing money, you know, because I was just, I was sharing a bed with a girlfriend at the time when I met Jonathan. So the developmental contract, I was like. Sign me up.

Like, let's do that. I'm rich. Exactly. Like, let's go. This is a guaranteed check. Let's go. Yeah. But from there into main roster, not like it's a very, night and day.

Yeah. So I think that's really what started it off is who's this girl? All of a sudden, her first day on the job, I'm at WrestleMania. That's our biggest event of the that's like our Super Bowl. Yeah. It's WrestleMania and then SummerSlam. Why were you there first? Because of the reality show.

That was the first day of filming. Oh. So they were announcing it or? We basically just showed up backstage and started filming. Oh. And then like introducing myself to everybody. So everybody else was looking around going, who is this? Who is this?

And like what? And now she's on the main roster and she doesn't know how to wrestle. She's had just a four-week tryout. And now she's all of us. sudden on this so-called reality show because at the time we didn't know if the reality show was even going to be a hit right because so many things even today like they'll get pilots made or certain shows will get made and then they either never make it to air or they just don't really resonate with whatever audience right so um the first season even talent backstage kind of thought

it was a joke in the sense of total divas like cool yeah great that's not gonna that's gonna flop yeah um but luckily it killed it like we had we were right after the Kardashians so our lead in was or no we were yeah I think we were either right after the Kardashians or right before one of I think we were right after because I think you want the lead in so great time slot and it was just a really good time for showcasing something like sports, entertainment. And now it did great. So then now we're in like season two. But I think immediately that was kind of the jump off of me being a villain.

Because it's just, it's hard to enter a world that feels a certain way, which I get. You had haters. Like the established roster didn't like the new girls kind of, right? Yeah, which I totally understand. I've been in the locker rooms my entire life. Right. And eventually I'll win them over because you can't, you cannot, unless someone just is like straight up just a hater,

which is highly very possible. Yeah. Once somebody meets you or meets and sees what you're all about, meaning that you're not there and you're just going to kick your feet up and not realize the opportunity that you have or the respect for whatever you're entering in, the business, the hunting, whatever that may be. Yeah.

And sees your work ethic and sees like, oh, no, you're the real deal. Like you want to be here. Got to respect the game. Totally. No matter what the game is. 100%. Got to respect who those before you. Yeah.

So that's why I didn't really have a problem initially them not really liking me because they don't know me from Adam. But once they did, you want them over. you think? I think it bothered them more. Oh. Because now it kind of feels an insecurity, whatever they're working through. Yeah.

You know, in the sense of... You challenge them a little bit. And the fact that it... I wouldn't allow me to drop down to any negative level, you know, where... killing with kindness is always the way to go. Yeah. So it took me a while. But eventually, I think, you know.

Was there a time when you're like, something hurt so bad? You're like, I'm not going to do this. Was anybody like say anything or was like a time where you really had to gut check? Oh my God. Yeah. It's crazy because I'll put on the facade really well. I mean, I'm able to do that very, very good. Yeah.

I mean, I did that with my addiction problems for a very long time. Yeah. But then behind closed doors, like to my husband, to my family, you know, I'd be a wreck. I'd be like, you know. I shouldn't be laughing, but I just understand. For sure. I understand. Where it's like, you know, whether it's crying or being super emotional or all of those things. And then, you know, I basically would get the pep talk either from Jonathan or,

My parents are really good. My dad especially, you know, where it's like, let the fuck up. Like, do you want to do this or not? Right. Like, not everyone's going to like you. Yeah. Be who you are. Mm-hmm.

Do your job and get on with it. Mm-hmm. A little tough love. Basically. Yeah. You know, so. And you kind of see that through. I did six seasons of Total Divas and you really get to kind of see, you ride the ride with me.

Mm-hmm. And you get to kind of see everything kind of kind of go down. But it was always moments of doubt or little things creeping in of like, what is going on? Like this is. Yeah. And it's always easy to be like, why mean? Why aren't like so mean to me? You know?

When it's like stop. Yeah. And it's stuff like that. It's so hard because things can be going great. A million things. Yeah. One thing. Oh, yeah.

And you're just like all the way back. down and it's just one hit it's just like no well you're ignoring all this good shit and all these good things people were saying and all this and now because one person whatever isn't that crazy yeah i feel like that's kind of i have no idea why that is it's like human nature right you could even see it on social media like you could post something and it could be you're getting like all the love all the love all the amazing whether it's encouragement or like that's so cool or whatever it may be. And then you have some little troll that leaves you some shitty comment and then all of a

sudden that's what you're focused on. Yeah. It's like so weird how the human brain really works because if you really like remove the emotion behind it, it's like that doesn't make any sense. You should flock to the majority or like the overwhelming of one side as opposed to the other. I think people want everyone to love them, right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's it.

Just like, you don't love, why don't you love me? Why don't you say that about me? You don't know me. It's like, so it's like, no, everyone needs to like me. Tell me I'm doing a good job. Yeah. And then the one person who doesn't, you're like, what the heck? Yeah.

So I don't know. I think that's very, very true, especially, you know, I've done a lot of, I guess, self-work through the steps. So a lot of that is, you know, I'm a people pleaser. And I want people to like me. And then if you don't, I'm like, why? I'm like, I'm so nice. I'm like, I work hard. You just don't know me.

Yeah. All of those things. And I think a really big reality check and growth was at the very beginning of my career, even for my husband too, is social media, right? So you're able to go ahead. Anyone in the world can leave a comment on anything that you do. so you have not only who I am in real life, which then you have my character,

which I go by my middle name, Eva Marie. So, and I play a bad guy, but that's character, right? Right. Then I'm on a reality show that showcases a little bit of the character, but then also really me. Yeah.

And it's hard for people to see, like, in between the lines of those. Yeah. So initially when people first started leaving comments or anything on social, I mean, they were coming for me because I was a bad guy. Right. And I remember Jonathan being like, what the fuck is going on? Like, who are these people? Like, this is insane.

Like what? And then I just learned as time went on, it doesn't nearly bother. before I would take it to heart like, oh my goodness, you know? Or like my parents would see something and be like, my mom especially. So after kind of going through that little wave and realizing that's just kind of the nature of the beast. Yeah. Then it was good. But it was a moment of like, what?

So as the villain, you got to kind of attack people or whatever. Did you ever want to be in villain most? on your comments. Oh my gosh. Like call people out. For sure. Oh, my God. And you know what?

It's funny because Jonathan is so even like. Even keel, yeah. Completely. But it was really hard for him. The first, I'd say probably first year, he would comment back. And he's so, he's super witty. Like he is so smart that he would. Usually those people are too dumb to get smart.

Completely. Yeah. And then finally I was like, K. Jonathan. You can't be commenting back to these people. But yeah, he would murder him, murder them in like an actual intellectual way. And then finally it was just, and then me trying to go after somebody? No, that's not good. Because it's something who's going to live in the comment and then it's going to get blasted everywhere. Then I'll look, I'll look crazy.

Well, and how it works is once you got your fans that actually kind of know you, then They'll fight for you. So somebody says something and then I got all the people. That's the best. Yeah. That's the best when I see like, you know, whoever your little community is, they're amazing. They'll rally and they go after anybody that's trying to either downplay or be negative

or anything like that. And so, you know, I kind of let that just kind of happen now. Yeah, I used to do the same thing too. But then you feel like you get your followers or whoever it is educated on how you think about things and then they can pretty much say what you would say and you don't have to say it. Exactly. Yeah, it's great. That's what's nice.

You know what? I used to watch back a million years ago, there was Portland wrestling. Okay. On Friday nights. And it was brought to you by Tom Peterson appliances. And we would have, I'd watch Friday night wrestling every Friday. And have you ever heard of Jimmy Superfly Snooka? Of course.

You have? Of course. Buddy Rose. Um, no. Buddy Rose was also one of the guys from local around here. Oh, okay. Yeah, Jimmy Super Feist knuckle was my favorite. Oh my gosh.

That's amazing because he was 40 years ago. And he was in the WWE and then, uh, I mean, his legacy is pretty, pretty huge. They had Stan the Man Stasiac who would put an arm up like here and then punch whoever he was fighting in the chest and get, it was called a heart punch. And then they would go down from the stand of Man Stasi. heart punch. So I don't know. You should try that sometime. Yeah. I'll make sure when I go back. Yeah. That'll be my signature. Bring that back. Yeah. For sure. Anyway, I've always loved, I mean, I haven't watched as much, you know, lately as like when you get older or whatever.

But I used to love watching it when I was younger. And then I know it's turned into just, man, this amazing business and opportunity and so many, so many eyeballs. But yeah, being the villain probably is, I don't know. Probably it's the heart. this job, isn't it? Because you get so much, people take that stuff so serious. They really, really do.

And it's one of those things, too, is I think initially, when I first stepped in, it was like a villain amongst talent and a villain amongst the audience. Because for me,

you know, wrestling, I remember it like back in the day in the sense of when I would watch it with my brothers like Hulk, Holk, Holgan era. And those guys, guys, but then I had fallen off and didn't watch it again until I'm walking in the headquarters for my audition. And then I'm looking around and I'm like, oh my God, wait, this is WWF.

Yeah. You know, because they obviously changed it to WWE. And that's when things started to like ping in my head in the sense of this has everything that I want to do. Because I graduated with a business degree. But I remember making the call to my parents being like, well, I'm not going to really go into like corporate world yet because i cuss too much i know it's actually i told the daughter that i was like oh my mouth is it's not too too too bad like cam probably is like yo chill no no for me it's like you're still down i mean i'm normally yeah i get it but yeah wayne was definitely shocked shout out to wayne wayne you know i love you guys over there yeah they're the best they are the best They are the best.

But, so. You weren't ready to go to the business world. Exactly. So I call my parents and I basically say, you know, I'm going to go. I'm going to move to L.A. for a little while and kind of put my feelers out and see what's going on over there. That was probably big. For them, they probably were like L.A., right? Basically.

Nobody has a good impression of L.A. I mean, that city will eat you up and switch it out. Yeah. So when I got the call and I went in for my like cattle call audition, I was like, wow, this has everything I want to do. Not only do you have to be a professional athlete, so you have to be disciplined and be able to handle all the physicality. You get to perform live.

You get to be a character. And then you get to travel the world performing live, as well as WW does do amazing things within communities. So you're able to give back. and be of service. So I'm like, dude, this has everything that I want to do infused into one spot. Like, let's sign me. Let's giddy up.

Let's go. And so that's where I say, like, you know, God putting you in the right place at the right time and then kind of just like having everything kind of fall. And for you to hopefully pick up on that and my dad completely. And then my dad always says, stay the course. Yeah. Like stay the course. So like seeing that and then like, you know, riding.

writing that opportunity and thankfully I did and and within my time there like I've been over to Afghanistan twice to go visit our troops and give thanks to them for what they do for us over here so it's like doing stuff like that is is huge no and you're right you have to be sometimes opportunities present themselves and the people just they're not ready or the person's ready or they're still busy sabotaging themselves and that opportunity goes and who knows what could happen. I mean, this could easily went by you because you were at a different stage of your life, but for whatever reason, as you say, God's blessing, put you in the right state of mind to be and Jonathan came in at the right time and everything aligned and then here you are.

Pretty incredible. I mean, Cam, you do not get it. That's why I'm saying. I am not supposed to be sitting across from Cameron Haynes. Like, that's nuts. And that's like the beautiful thing about social media too is, I know that we've even chatted about like negative parts of it. Yeah. But the beautiful thing is I got to start following you, someone in Oregon.

I'm in California that I normally wouldn't even get the opportunity to like cross paths with and follow your journey, see what you're doing. And get inspired by somebody by what they're doing on a daily basis. So hearing your story, excuse me. It's how good. I feel like, oh my gosh. Do you need water? Actually, yes. Can I have a water?

I know. I have like a little bit of a cold, I think, that's just like wanting to linger. There you go. Oh, thank you. The life of being on set. Rihanna, thank you. You're used to live. Yeah, I know.

live TV is like you got to suck that shit down. I could imagine. Yeah, if you're delivering a live thing. Oh my God. It's nuts. Live TV, it's really, really crazy. But going back to what I was saying and why it is amazing and like how social media. Technically, even me being here, being able to lift, run, shoot with you is just a, it's crazy.

And like, I am super great for it. As am I. Awesome. I mean, because, yeah, when would we ever connect if it wasn't for social media? Exactly. And that's, yeah, that is. We get focused on the negative, but there's so much positive because you get that same type of, you can kind of learn what somebody's about.

Sure. And be like, yeah, I'd like to come and share a shared suffering, lift some weights, do some running, do some cool shit. That would never happen. But it happened. And it's amazing. No, it really is. And that is the positive with social media.

And then also, too, being able to, the amount of people that you can influence, right? And in a positive, obviously there's a responsibility with that too, but in a positive manner. So when I first heard about this guy in Oregon, working a 9 to 5 job, running a damn near a marathon a day, and shooting a bow, I'm like, who the fuck is this guy? Like, what? A marathon a day.

That's a good question. And married. And has three kids. I told Jonathan and we were like, what? And that's when we started following you, right? And then clearly the consistency. And that's what it's about also in life in general with what you want. You know, sometimes, and I'm a very impatient person, but if you stay the course and you are persistent and consistent and consistent in what you're doing on a daily basis, like we were even saying, when you were smoking me yesterday on the run, it's like, you know, one foot in front of the other. Yeah.

Hence why I like the motto, I live, you know, a day at a time. Yeah. Because that's all we got. That's all we got to focus on, especially with my head. If I'm thinking about yesterday or last year or tomorrow or what's going on in the future, that's not a good space for me. Right. Then it's counterproductive because now I'm stuck in this area. It's hard to just focus on what's in front of you.

For sure. That is, it's a talent or an art or something. But to your point, you stay the course day after day, month after month, and then who knows where the hell you could go? Because just like you, I shouldn't be here either. I mean, I should died in a deep, you know, a drunk driving accident. And it's like the fact that we beat the odds. And now we're here sharing an amazing experience and influencing others with, we'll be able to share this content, what we did yesterday. And it's going to impact others.

And that's like, so we beat the odds. We shouldn't be here, but we are. We've got to make the most of it. Right? 100%. Yeah. And just kind of going, continuing to attack. So like, and that's what's so cool is like, you know, you're a bow hunter from Oregon, right?

I'm a girl from California. However, there's a lot of crossover and similarities in the sense of stories where you should have multiple DUIs. well, I have multiple DUIs. I got caught. You did not. I got lucky. You know? And then I could have killed someone or myself.

Thank God that I didn't. Where those opportunities and they don't happen for other people. So it's very important to realize the journey of the process of even getting here. You making the conscious decision of like, what am I doing with my life? Right. Same with me. Where do I want to go? And really making that choice because ultimately you have the control over what you have control over.

And that's ultimately the choices that you decide to make, whether it's what you're eating, are you working out? Doing those like simple things that people forget is really important. You know, making and those are daily wins. They are. They really are. And that they do add up. Well, and if you would look back on those lowest moments, like for me, I remember, I think it's in my book where I'm there when they towed my truck and I was getting my stuff out of my truck. I had a gun in there, hit me in the back of the head, all the stuff.

And if you would look at me then or maybe look at you when you were, I guess, in jail, nobody would envy that and say, man, I would give anything to be in their shoes. But so so many people could identify with that with being at the lower lowest and struggling and wondering what kind of why they're making the shitty decisions are making. So they can identify with that. But then you look at with consistent positive effort where you could be. And to me, I want them to know just like we did. You could, who knows what these people are capable of just by living, making better decisions, living clean. they could too go from the basically the depths, the gutter, whatever,

the worst day of someone's life into success beyond what anybody imagined. Oh my gosh. It's like if that message, if we can share that message, to me it's all worth it. Everything we're doing is worth it because we could have a positive impact on others.

I agree. And what I love about your message too from, you know, obviously I read your book and then I listened also to the audio, which is fantastic, is it's very easy to have a crutch, right? And so I didn't have the crutch in the sense of like terrible parents or a terrible upbringing. So I didn't even have that crutch to use as like a poor me syndrome.

It was like, no, you're an idiot and you're continuing to self-sabotage your life by continuing doing this. So you kind of refresh. It's kind of crazy because when you talk to somebody and it starts to almost like refresh certain things that I had like totally put in the way back of my brain and forgot about. But I two totaled my car. I got a hematoma. I broke my nose.

And my childhood best friend that now I live 20 minutes from and one of the reasons why I moved to Texas, I missed her bachelor at party to her wedding, right? But now fast forward, which is horrible, terrible, terrible friend, selfish. Fast forward to where I am now. Now I live down the street, totally show up for whatever Jonathan and I can, go to her kids' games, like actually a friend. Yeah. You know, where it's that wasn't what I was prior. Right.

And I think that's also kind of piggybacking on confidence. when you're able to show up, mean what you say, say what you mean what you mean. And when you tell people certain things, do them. Yeah. You know, and that builds your, it does. It really does. Yeah. But that builds your confidence.

And when you're not doing the things that you know that you should be doing, I know, that's when I feel the shittiest. If I'm not hitting my meetings or if I'm not doing my program, if I miss a work, workout if I'm not eating as clean as I know that I should be, all those things totally add up in the negative. We want to go, we want to stack them to the positive. And when you start accomplishing things, then when you show up somewhere, because it would be, like, if I was going to show up somewhere, I'd be like, last time these guys saw me, I was blacked, I don't even remember what I did, what I said, probably made the biggest idiot to myself.

So then I'd be like, well, I better get a little buzz than I won't even worry about it. Or now when you show up after doing, then you're like, well, they could ask me about my book or they could ask me about a podcast guest. Or now it's all positive instead of me trying to like forget, I don't know, just the mistakes I made and why this is going to be awkward.

Now it's just like, I don't really care if they ask me, but if they do it's positive, I'll look forward to it and then I can have a good story about, oh, yeah, me and Natalie, Lifterin, shot bows. it was amazing or yeah, the book did great. Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. So it's like a whole different, you're just going, as you said earlier, different branches of the road. And one's great, still has challenges. One's just more negative. And it's just, it seems so easy. When you think about it, it should be easy. But man, humans, it's a, life

can be tough sometimes, just making good decisions. It really is. And no matter what, life is difficult. You run through your fair share of trials and tribulations regardless of your bad decisions. So it's just you're trying to mitigate the destruction. Yeah. You know, because regardless of how well you're doing, things are going to come at you at certain times. So, you know, it's trying to alleviate the real destruction, I guess. And I think, so I could imagine, it sounds like, you know, your dad had a big influence on you, but it's always good when people, when they talk,

what I always think, they're talking to your dad and they're saying, man, Natalie, she seems like she's doing amazing, you know, as opposed to before it'd be like, is Natalie okay, is how's she doing okay? So that's, I mean, how good must that feel to make your dad proud? So I think that's probably the best feeling in the world in the sense of when I talk to my parents, I could see they're just so proud. And they do a good job with, because like growing up, it wasn't, we didn't really talk about our feelings too much.

Guys aren't good at that anymore. No, exactly. And it was one of those things where it's like, no one really ever like. cried either because it was more along the lines like do you want me to give you something to cry about type thing you know but in like the best way you know like there's nothing I don't see anything negative I feel like that's it's great as a tough love is I think so I think so sometimes too for sure um but now you know there'll be moments where like my dad will call me under the blue and just kind of give me that reminder of look how far you've come.

Yeah, yeah. So that's good. Yeah. Well, and I want to talk about that too because, man, lately, oh, I was wondering, have you ever heard of blood origins? I have. Have they reached out to you? They have.

Yeah, I figured just because they do a great job of telling the story, like the full story of hunting. Yeah. And a lot of times it's new people in the hunting industry or moving into the, the hunting world and telling their stories how they and I think that's I think you'd make a great story so oh yeah I think Robbie does a good job with his films doesn't he yes no big time and they were one of the first people when I actually first put out you know uh kind of my hunting narrative they they were one of the first to like kind of reach out and basically be all on board yeah so yeah

I thought that was amazing so why hunting um I think for me multiple reasons right so growing up my godfather huge hunter um i mean we're sitting in here and i'm kind of like have that feeling of remembrance of him because when i would walk into as a little kid walk into his house you know he had a lot of his shoulder mounts and there's a lot of pride there and he was a great chef and so he would uh always cook for like anytime that my family went over there, it would be some type of like ordeal of food. Wild game or? Wild game.

Abiloni was the first, he prepared that. I've never had that again since him. So that's one. And then number two is honestly, Jonathan and I started watching a lot of those, the PETA videos, right? Oh, yeah. So the factory farming.

This isn't, I'm not talking about like, like ranchers, right? That's completely different. Right. Which, I mean, there's some great cattle ranchers. Amazing. Absolutely amazing.

And I've been to amazing ranches and all the hard work. And that's completely different than what I'm talking about. Factory farming is what everybody sees on that Pita Post. Right. Excuse me. And seeing kind of how gross and nasty the chicken, like they're on top of each other. They're super closed and in fine places that's just not ideal whatsoever. And then really wanting to know where exactly my food is coming from.

And also, when you're factory farming like that, there's so many things that you have no idea. Like the hormones. I mean, even I think one of the things like a cow could have X amount of cancerous cells, and it's still okay. Where I'm like, wait, so then that's cool. And then you're going to, I'm going to eat that. That makes zero sense to me. Right.

So then once again, Cameron Haynes out here with your bow, just talking about wild game. And seeing how the way that you kind of put that out there, then that's when the wheel started to really kind of turn for my conversation with Jonathan, wanting to be. to hunt and then how can that really happen, right? Because I'm super new, don't know what I'm doing. Right. So you never hunted as a kid at all. Never hunted as a kid.

Yeah. So that's where a social media is a beautiful thing because it kind of all is piggybacks off of one another. I ended up receiving your book with a hat and a knife, right? from Montana Knife Company. And that's when I started following that brand and fell in love with that brand. And then I started following Josh, the owner and his wife, Josh and Jess. Yeah. And so then built a relationship there.

And luckily, I opened up my big mouth, which sometimes it works in my favor. And I had received the cooking, where like the chef's knives from Montana. Tanna knife. And so I'm on social media talking about them. And then I just casually put in the same video talking about, okay, now I have these like knives because on our property, I do the yard work that I kind of told you about. And I always have a knife strapped to my fanny pack. Right. For protection. For protection. You never know. You can get tied up in my weed eater, my lawnmower, you know, lots of things can go. Hey, wire out there.

So I just casually set it on social about a hunt. And luckily, for whatever reason, Jess saw it, Josh's wife, told Josh, hey, maybe you should reach out and see if this girl, she seems cool. Hopefully she's not like some cuckoo bird. Yeah, like most girls. Yeah, exactly. Right? Just kidding.

No, he's not. Do you think that's fair that you can just say just because you're a pretty girl that, hey, I want to hunt and then you got people willing to take you? Whereas if a guy said that, it'd be like, go learn it on your own. That's not fair, is it? Well, do you think that would happen if a guy said that? It's my story. It's happening in my story just now. But then what's the difference in the sense of another girl is the one that basically said that I should go?

Oh, okay. So it's, so it would be a little bit different. And I did invite Joe. Joe's a guy. See? Okay. So anyway. Nice.

I see what you do with there. I was just trolling. But almost solid point. Yeah. I hear you. Yeah. But thankfully, Jess was the one that she saw it, told Josh, maybe you should extend the invite because Jess had not hunted at all.

And I thought was crazy considering Josh is a, I mean. Montana. Big, big hunter. I mean, his son, I mean, his son's already shooting a bow and making kills as well. So anyways, long story short, he reaches out. I talked to Jonathan. I was like, this is what's going on. Yeah, she must need a little push too.

So you were the push for her. I don't know, maybe. I mean, whatever, but whatever reason is like both two new hunters. It's a great story. And reached out. And then Josh was like, well, you. You know, if you're able to scheduling-wise, this is basically going down really quick. And 10 days being really quick.

So I talked to Jonathan and then Jonathan was like, yes, of course. Yeah. So that's kind of how. That's way better than having to wait a whole year. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Are you kidding me? That is so quick.

That's another thing where I'm like, I think people have this misconception that like you just grab your rifle, grab your bow. and you just all of a sudden are like, I'm going hunting today. Yeah. You know, where it's like, no, no, there's like season. So you have to wait for that season to come for you to even think about attempting or trying. Yeah. Was that a lot to learn that process? Because I don't think people who don't hunt realize how much structure there is to hunting with a hunting license.

A number of tags allocated. all the science and biology that goes into deciding how many animals can be killed. Was that a big process to learn? Oh my God, big time. And not only that, how about this? You go ahead, you do all those things. You purchase your tag. And then if you don't make a kill, well, thank you.

Goodbye. You're not going home with me. I didn't know that. I literally thought like. Everybody got a kill? No. Oh. You keep trying until you get a kill.

Oh, I see. Yeah. But the season wasn't over and you were gone. Yeah. Like I had totally, this was a new world that I was stepping into. But the one thing that I have to say about myself is I am coachable. So when I'm walking into anything brand new, I might not like being new, but I'm going to learn from everybody that's the best. Right.

Or I'm going to listen to every single person and every instruction because I'm whatever it is that I'm doing, you know, know, obviously I want to do it and I'm going to take it seriously. I'm like, I'm not trying to half-ass anything, especially going into hunting because not only is it serious, but like so many things can also go wrong in the sense of, um, depending on where you're at, just like the terrain level. Like people, I feel, don't realize how much effort goes into even the hunt. Yeah. Getting around.

Getting around. Being fit. Like, I get it. Like, after running with you. Yesterday, it totally makes sense. And now also coming off of my first hunt, of course. Like, if you're physically fit, you are going to be able to move, be able to carry, be able to do what you need to do in the mountains far more superior than somebody that is just sitting on their. Yeah. What I always say is if the hunt is the hardest thing you've done, it's not going to turn out great.

Because you can't expect to be at your best when you're fatigued and when you're in new territory as far as effort goes. So my training, I want to be much harder than the hunt. So than the hunt, I'm focused on just the kill. For sure. I'm not focused on trying to catch my breath, my legs burning. You know, what am I going to do with this stupid coat? I'm hot. Yeah.

You know, I'm focusing on, no me, getting close to that animal and killing it. And that's it. So it's, yeah, I think a lot of people, they, they diminish themselves because they're not prepared. Didn't they get out there and they maybe take a shot that isn't the bet? They're not at their best. And so who's going to suffer? The animal's going to suffer.

Oh, for sure. And I think that's what's like super important too is regardless, like everything, you get better with reps with everything in life in general. The more you do something, it's obvious that you're going to get better at it, right? So if going out there, you have one shot or one era, whatever it may be to actually do what you are set out to get, you know? And ultimately for me and Jonathan is there's nothing better. It just puts a different perspective now having our freezer full of wild game meat that I went out. personally and got.

You know, I mean, that is, that's powerful. That's heavy. That is. That is something that not that many people, I feel, I said it then. And I do a, I still feel the same way where I feel like each person should experience it at least one time just because it, it does something to you. It really does. I feel it's crazy because it was, my first time was a life-changing experience.

It's like I feel definitely it, not only will I always remember it because it's my first, but it makes me have a different appreciation even for food. And the feeling of like, wow, what you are set out, what you can do, what you're set out to do, whatever you put your mind to as well, you can accomplish, you know, and it's important to provide to provide for your family. That's amazing. That's what we're set. Yeah, that's where we're set out to do.

And the fact that you can physically provide for your family, that's the shit. Yeah. Like that's what it's about because let's go back in time. If shit were to hit the fan, you can't survive if you're not drinking water or you have food to eat. So if you can't go get your food, see you're weak. Bye. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, we live in an age of comfort and ease these days. But I think it's great. That's fine. We all enjoy the comforts of whatever we're heat, lights, everything's sitting here. But I think it's also important to understand what it takes, as you said, if the shit hits a fan. And now you're asked to provide for you and your family. Are you able to do it? Totally.

And just the fact that you can do it means a lot. Oh, my goodness. You might not have to technically. Who knows? But you can. And that's, it changes your mindset on, to me, on everything, the way you look at things. Even, you know, we're eating yesterday and we had elk steak chili. Which was amazing.

Shout out to your wife. Thank you. Yeah. Fantastic. No, she does a great job. She's a, she does a hunt, but she cooks a hell out of that stuff. And so we're always, I pretty much eat. I had backstrap this morning for breakfast.

So. But yeah, it's like there's something meaningful. Yeah, you could have opened a couple cans of nowies chili. Yeah. Had some free dose to dip in there. I mean, who doesn't like that? That's what I used to cook the boys every night for dinner. But there's something different about when it's elk meat in there that I know I wouldn't killed.

I think that was from my Oregon bowl this year. And it's just, yeah, you don't talk about it, but you know it. And it, you know, internally, it means something. But, yeah. That's huge. I think it's great that you're in the, hunting realm now and a voice for hunting in some regards. You know, I'm probably going to be a bigger voice because you come at it from a different,

obviously different crowd perspective. Your followers are different than say my followers. So to be able to educate them and share your thoughts on the process is just going to have, even if they don't hunt, we'll have a rippling effect. Yeah, no, I think it's important. Like we were saying about social media and like, you know, I've been very blessed with the platform that I have been given. And so, you know, it's what do I want to, how do I want to use that platform?

Right. You know, what do I want to say? And obviously, I feel, you know, there is responsibility in that and being able to actually set the tone and the narrative around hunting because I think it is. So it's kind of in more of the mainstream media. is done so kind of negatively. Yeah. Yeah, it's misunderstood.

Very misunderstood. So it's, if I can shed the light in a positive way, I want to do that, you know, and the fact that if you are wanting to possibly go hunting, pick it up, try it, you should. You know, where you don't have to be, I know that there is this kind of thing in the hunting that I've kind of have heard

in the sense of usually getting brought into the hunting world is usually kind of generational. Like you get taught when you're a young boy or a young girl and then it's kind of that's where it kind of lives. But in order for this to grow

and to become something that is not talked so negatively about, there is something about like for instance Josh being willing to open up someone so new to it that has never done it and want to showcase and share how to do how to do a hunt. Yeah.

You know, like what do you... How to get started. How do you have from your, like from your gear to all of those little things that you don't really think about yeah um is important and so kind of to showcase that and and be the voice of that too um and even on the run you know being able to shoot the shit with riana and and kind of pick her brain in the sense of like she's a badass bow hunter you know like that's awesome there's something super powerful about being able to be a woman and

handle yourself in the mountains. Yeah. Because I always think why I also wanted to get into hunting is because I started thinking about, let's say shit goes south, right? Hypothetically speaking here. Can I survive? Mm-hmm.

Can I, like, can I literally live? Yeah. Well, no, because I feel I could make a kill for an animal because if I was in desperate need to. Yeah. But then what? Can I get the meat? Take care of it. Yeah.

Can I do all of the things that you need to do to actually utilize that animal once you make the kill? Mm-hmm. No. Yeah. I couldn't. So that was a heavy, heavy. Yeah. Like that's a big, oh, well, you know what?

Yeah. You better be. Right. So that's really also why I wanted to get into hunting to, is to provide. to be able to do that. And that is kind of the number one question. People who don't hunt, they're like, you know, you kill a big bowl or whatever. They go, so how do you get it out of the mountains?

And yeah, so that whole thing is like, well, and I always say in pieces. Yeah. But there's a huge part to the quality of meat, how your kill is taking care of immediately. And then, you know, in the hours after the kill make a big difference on the quality of meat. but that's a learning process and that's it is an art there's an art to that also um you said a couple things there i want to touch on it's like you mentioned yeah if we're going to grow the tradition of hunting that's one thing but also because we said hunting is misunderstood by a lot of people so it's not even even if they're never going to hunt are they are they seeing hunting

shown in the right way you know is the right message being sent is um this feeling of providing and being merciful. Is that message being shared? Because if you look at it, what, there's like 14 million license hunters in the U.S., so I guess there's 300 and some million people. So close to only 5% hunt if you look at the raw numbers like that. So 5% hunt, whereas 96% or 97% eat meat. So that means there's 90% of the people who aren't killing themselves, killing for themselves.

filling their freezer with hunting meat that are still eating meat. And a lot of them have these preconceived notions on hunting. And so is that a fair assessment? Or is it, are they looking at it wrong because they just don't know? So to me, those are the people, those 90 million or 90% those are the people that we need to educate. And it's like they don't have to hunt, but just so they understand it. And then you said another thing too, you said almost. Peta inspired you to hunt because of the videos they were showing.

Yeah, it was, it is horrifying to watch how those animals are treated. And, and so that was, you didn't want to be part of that. So it was like, well, how can I, I'm still going to eat meat. How can I do that ethically? Exactly. And that was, that's what brought you to hunting. And not only that too is these animals, they're out there. they're I know exactly in the sense of they're not getting shot up with hormones they're not trying to

you know that is done in factory farming those guys have uh they're getting pumped full of god knows what to make a bigger fatty or whatever more meat um and the fact that it literally was from farm to my table is is huge so but like you said you know, packing it out too. I mean, breaking the animal down. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Yeah.

So. Well, you know, here's something that that reminded me of also. So I've killed a lot, been bo hunting for a long time, hunting since I was 15, so 40 years now. And this last year, I killed a buck in Idaho. And great buck. I don't know where it is somewhere around here. But killed this buck in Idaho, and it was super hot because it was August 22nd, I think. So I wanted to take it into, they had this meat cooler where they could process the meat for me because I was going on another hunt.

So I took it there and I said, hey, would you guys mind if I skin this buck out in your cooler? Because it was getting close to 100 degrees outside, big cooler that process all these beef every day in some little town in Idaho. So they said, oh, yeah, well, go around back. well, what you get in there and skin that buck out? And I said, great. So we go around, get the buck out. There's these kids in there working on these cattle. Some beef cows came in and they're skinning them out.

And I was just watching them and their knives are super sharp. They're just like making quick work of all this. I'm talking to the kid. One kid has a black eye. I said, what happened? One of these cows kick you. One last kick. He's like, no, I was out drinking, got punched.

My mouth got me in trouble. And I was like, yeah, I've been there. But anyway, so I said, I'm going to go grab a monster out of the truck because I wanted to just chill out, skin that buck. And I go outside to the truck and they were bringing it in a cow and coming in the little stall kind of corralled in. And there was a door that slid into where we were. And the cow butted up against the door. A guy just walks up Has a bolt

Like what they kill the cows with puts it right on his head Boom A bolt goes into its brain Drops it And I'm just standing there watching Cow drops They open the door Pull it in it's kicking around

Wrap it up Yard it up with the Winch And start whittling away on it Still kicking around Cut his throat Had a big like rubber made thing Under its head

Cut his throat all the blood comes pouring out and I'm standing there going man and they say what's up I go I don't know I said I'm not trying to be a pussy but and I know I just killed a buck today I go but that is that's hard for me to see see that cow came in probably thought it was coming to get green and boom dead and just that's just the way it goes I still don't enjoy I hunt I kill all the time to me it was like the buck I killed had been out there for years wild it felt different yes it's died no different than that cow but it just felt different it feels different to be a hunter and to kill and these kids are just they do that I said how many how many cows you guys butcher a day they're

like 35 or 40 so they're killing 35 or 40 every day zipping it up um getting cut up packaged up and people buy it don't think about any of that behind the scene stuff And to me, I was just like, man, for me as a hunter, it's so much easier than now seeing that. And I'm not saying everybody needs to see this behind the scene stuff. Totally. Because it's not going to help. Some people's not going to help. It's just going to kind of traumatize them.

For sure. But just knowing that that happens, this is like for you to have that burger and that steak, I know you're not seeing anything. But just know that that cow did come in a crowd, come up to a door that just slides open and it's going to be butchered up. there and was just dead just like that. Just know that happens. Yeah. So just be honest about it. For sure.

I feel like hunters are honest about the meat they eat, the meat they provide for the families. Yes, there's blood on our hands and we accept that responsibility that we took a life. But because we accept that, we're able to honor it in a way that maybe non-hunters don't honor their kills because it's hard to. For sure. You don't have that connection. But to me, that's the, it's a complicated journey of a hunter.

I completely agree in the sense of I had no idea what to expect going out on my first hunt. One, especially the emotions of it, you know, where I think that the misconception is you see on social media, right, and the narrative of people standing with their bulls or whatever it is that they killed. And people are so upset with standing there with a dead animal. But it's not, they're missing the whole. whole entire purpose of like the joy or the photo right it's it's not that it's not that it's like yes i'm just like killing the animal it's not about that it's the the journey the process to get there the fact that the camaraderie of your camp so like for for me you know being out there for my

first time with with jess her and i that's that was we were set out to to accomplish this then we have a Josh and Gary leading the way and kind of showing us basically all of the thing from glassing to being quiet. I mean these guys can sent like they sent you in the drop of a dime. Yeah. Like it's incredible to watch these animals in their natural habitat, right? And then to go through all of the emotions in the sense of frustration to sweating your ass off, to being tired, to carrying all your stuff, trying to track down the animal, not being there. All of those things. And then to set up to try to actually take one.

And then when you do, it's not like this excitement of like, yes, I killed an animal. It's more along the lines of a relief. Did it make a good shot? Exactly. Of, of you really are taking that kind of heavy, process and you're happy that it was the quickest and most painless hopefully that it possibly could be and the fact that all of that journey or all of the the endless lift run shoot days got you and prepared you for that moment you know where people have this uh misconception of

seeing somebody with their bull and thinking it, oh my God, how dare they? That's terrible when it's so much more than that and the appreciation of the animal and everything that that animal is going to bring to their life. You know, that's what the photo is. That's what the journey is. That's what the relief and the joy and the tears. I mean, I cried. I cried like I told you yesterday.

I cried of frustration. and I cried of tears of like joy and relief and thankfulness. Yeah. You know, it's, it's a beautiful thing. And that's kind of like the circle of life as well. That's kind of how it's really, I mean,

people say it where sometimes you're either going to love it or you're going to like really hate it, you know, and you never know unless you try it. And I really, I fell in love with it of all of the, the journey of it. And then really ultimately the fact, I mean,

it's a great, like when I'm cooking my elk, my elk meat or making whatever it is that I'm making, I still think to the journey of it and just like, wow, where your story about the cows and the guys bringing in the meat that you're picking up from the grocery store, you don't have that connection. Right.

You know, you're picking up your meat and you're doing your thing and you're making your dinner or whatever it is, but you don't have that, like, that bond or that like emotional or that appreciation to that degree. Right. And I feel like that's also what hunting has done for me, too, where it's made me not as wasteful either.

Mm-hmm. Or, you know, that's also something that is also really, we eat so much and, like, we're so wasteful. They say Americans throw away 40% of their food in the garbage. And so that includes meat. So that means that people who are buying steaks and hamburgers are like, I'm a little full. I'm going to push just aside so they leave,

you know, quarter of their hamburger, some of their meat of their steak. That was an animal that died for you. And you're throwing it in the garbage. And so, yeah, hunting. I know hunters, when they think of meat and they think of getting all the meat off the carcass after you're skinning it out,

cleaning it up, taking everything you can, every ounce is like gold to a hunter. Whereas to a non-hunter, It's just, you know, you don't need to finish that. Throw it away. And, you know, and the journey of a hunter is a complicated one because I've been on hunts. I've been where I didn't, I know I've spined animals before where you break their back. They drop.

They can't move. So you got to run up there, get them killed quick because they're suffering. That's just not fun. That's not fun. I mean, people have had to face that. Because that animal is looking, you know, obviously it's, it doesn't know what's going on. And that moment where a hunter and the animal and you're trying to get it killed quick, it's got a broken back, some people would be like, I'm not doing this anymore.

I can't do this. It's too intense because, and we're able to. We're able to get through life without having uncomfortable moments for the most part. So there's times where, yeah, kills aren't always going to be perfect. when anything dies, it's not always clean and perfect, but that's hunting. So when a hunter can say,

yeah, I didn't like how that felt, that's why I'm going to work my ass off to make an ethical kill the next time because I'm never going to forget how I felt and what that animal was going through. And so it's a testament to the hunter's spirit to be able to be like, yeah,

that wasn't fun, but I'm going to do it anyway because somebody has to. to because those animals we don't have unlimited habitat the animals won't manage themselves um i've had many people say you know when i've killed a bear why would you kill a bear my response is because somebody has to and if you're not i will just say thank you because it's not easy and there's there's a lot of shit that goes wrong or not goes wrong with this difficult it's hard but that's that's life 100%

That's life of a provider If people are at home And you're providing for them You don't want them to have to do it So you will And that's how I look at it With bringing me home to my kids No for sure

And like that narrative too is There's also Like It's one of those things Where animals They can overrun And start messing up the whole entire System of how things

Are meant to be and that's also the whole purpose as well. And not only that, but you only get one. Like you get a tag and I get one, one and done. Yeah. You know? People think it's just, you know, open season, you go out there. But yeah, it's, you know, they always say, too, that let Mother Nature take care of itself.

And that's not how it works. I mean, a bear in Alaska where I've killed a couple brown bear. The skulls are in the house over there. but they'll kill all the moose. They don't, they're not like, I'm good, I'm not really that. They're like, when a moose is stuck in the snow, a big boar grizzly will go up and kill it, might not even eat any of it, go and kill another one. Totally.

That's just the way it works. And you can't, a grizzly is going to be a grizzly. What are you going to do? And so that's where man has to come in and say, okay, we need to knock the bear numbers down. Right. And like where I killed those brown bear grizzly species, there were so many of them that I could kill two. And people think you can kill two grizzlies? I thought they were endangered.

It's like, no, they're endangered in L.A. at Starbucks, but they're not endangered in this part of Alaska where they're devastating the moose. So people think that it's just one size fits all. But each ecology is different. British Columbia outlawed grizzly hunting because of people in Vancouver. BC think there are no grizzlies. People up in the brush are dealing with grizzlies all the time. So now you can't even hunt them anymore. So now the ungulet population, the deer, elk or moose, caribou,

they're being adversely impacted because there's too many bearslies. So, yeah, it's a complicated process. And I can't expect non-hunters to not to understand that. But that's our job to explain it. Exactly. And that's where like the narrative in the sense of you have someone like myself that initially if you take your first glance at say my social media, right? You would never think I have this desire or passion to hunt my own food. Yeah.

So to be able to break the stereotype. Break the stereotype of like you don't have to be the traditional like, you know, backcountry hunter. Redneck like me. dumb redneck You know what I mean And to really do your research as well So that's also another thing where I'm like what happened to

Before people speak on things Or at least I know for me I'm not really going to open my big mouth Which I know that I have Before You know what you're talking about Yeah At least a little bit

So that way I can be educated Where when it comes to like the hunting narrative, there's so much a false narrative that it's interesting to me because once I actually had started to do my own research and wanting to kind of jump into this world, it's out there. Yeah. Like you just have to kind of search for it and not listen to, you know, whatever big time celebrity is being the loudest.

The view. Oh my gosh. Don't get me started. Yeah. What drives me crazy is people who come with such a voice of authority who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Totally. You're acting like you know what you're talking about, but you're completely clueless.

Yeah. You have no idea. How could you, do you don't even know how dumb you are? But yeah, that's it. It's like people will make this big stand and not really have anything that they're standing on. No, totally. I'm like, get off that soapbox.

Maybe do some research. Come back. 100%. And not only that, but I feel like 99% of them haven't even suited up to go even attempt to do any of the uncomfortable things that is required to do that. So it's like, take a seat. And speaking of The View, I'm like, how does the View have a show? I'm like, okay, if The View has a show, then me and Cameron Hayden should have a show right now.

Guaranteed. Yeah. Craziness. Yeah, I'm not sure how many people actually. we watch it, but I don't know. The people who do watch it, I don't know, they need Jesus in their life. Because I don't know how. It's just a bunch of like nagging, cackling, like unhappy women, it seems like to me.

For sure. Definitely. Yeah. Well, I wanted to, we'll wrap up with how did our day yesterday compare, like, how did the run on the mountain to compare with your first. ultra, because you've done an ultra marathon. Yeah, because of Cameron Haynes, because that's what's so crazy. And that has to feel pretty nuts for you because I'm just one person.

And I know that the inspiration is tremendous to others that have just, like, laced up their shoes or picked up a bow and attempted to go on their first hunt, you know. I just happened to be one of those. And so the fact that, okay, first of all, the fact that I went on or did an ultra is mind blowing in the sense of even though I even tell Jonathan, I'm like, dude, how is soccer my sport? Because I don't really particularly like love running. However, I love when I, how I feel after I run. So like that's what I chase. It's not like that I like to run really.

I really don't. It's not like I live for that. It's I do really enjoy. I mean, you saw yesterday, I was like, amped the fuck up. Like, it just, like, brings something. But that's also why I am so passionate about health. Health is wealth. And so working out, it is, like, scientifically proven that not only is it good for your,

just like everything for your body. But, you know, we live in also an era of because of our phones and instant gratification and always distraction, obviously you hear the narrative of mental health, right? Well, working out is going to help a lot of that. Right. Like, I couldn't even imagine if I didn't play as many sports or piggybacking on what I was saying about running is like soccer was my sport, you're running 90 minutes, right? And like so every day at practice, you're either doing like sprints or you're doing long, long, long runs to build up your endurance. So the fact that that was my sport is like bananas to me because I don't particularly love running, but I like scoring goals.

So it's wild because back then if I didn't play a sport, oh for sure, I would be like certified like you need a ton of medication for this kid. She is absolutely bat shit crazy and nuts and like good luck, you know? It's different with the team environment as opposed to going and running by yourself, though, isn't it? Oh, it is. Yeah. It is. I like it though, too, because you get to just be in your head. So you get to sort a lot of things out about yourself.

Right. And that's what I enjoy, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent, depending on the day, and depending on how I feel. Because Lord knows, I wake up different every day. So that's why I really enjoyed that process. And then going through doing the ultra world, I was like, you know what, if this dude is out here doing ultras, 100 miles, why can't I?

Yeah. You know? He's this dude from Oregon working in 9 to 5. I can do it too. And that's what is amazing is that you don't have to think that you're a Michael Jordan. Right. Or, you know, some crazy athlete, right? It's you can do whatever it is that you want to do and strive towards.

Yeah. By putting in the work and doing the daily deed. And it sucks. And there's something we said, like, you finished an ultramarathon. You are an ultramarathoner. Well, I don't know about that. That's like going a little, that's like a little too deep. But, well, it was cool during my ultra.

You know, it gives you a little bit pep in your step getting a text from you. So I was like, all right, bitch, finish this shit. Like, there's no way. So, you know, now going into... Was that five miles left? I think so. Towards the end. Yeah, it was.

Yeah. I needed that little right at the right time, you know, to push you through. So the fact that I did finish that. And now, you know, has made me want to go for a 50-mileer, which is going to happen because I'm saying it right here on the Cameron Haynes collective podcast. That's right. Putting it out there, you heard it first. But then also, too, being able to actually do that with you yesterday is, I mean, I said it yesterday, too. You're the truth, man.

You're the deal. Like you, you aren't just out here on social media. like a lot of people that are trying to like whatever give advice do this do that whatever it is you're living it you know you're out there i'm like see this dude fucking smoking up this this incline is crazy um and that's really cool to see like i definitely obviously wouldn't expect anything less but you never know when you meet somebody in person you never know if it's like how much of it is real how much of it is kind of like social media because it's very easy to be putting out whatever.

I don't even hardly run by myself. I only run when it's on my phone or like with you. It's all fake. Yeah, right. I can really tell by that yesterday. I'm a poser. I love how though. I really just, I don't know what my brain was thinking.

But for whatever reason, I'm thinking like, yeah, we're going to probably run up the hill. So it was probably like two and a half miles. When the fuck has Cameron Haynes ever ran two and a half miles? Never very often. So half a marathon later, here we are. You killed it. Two summits, two monument jumps. You kicked ass yesterday.

So impressed with your toughness. And also your attitude the whole time. I loved it. And then shooting the bow. And so that's how I always end these episodes is I grab your new bow. The bow. I mean, this is this is, this is, this is, this is. is everything. And I welcome you to the bow hunting brotherhood with your brand new Hoyt. Keep hammering.

Bo, the one you shot so well yesterday. Shout out to the bow rack. I know. They're the shit. Shout to the bow rack and to Hoy and to you for doing so well, following instruction so well. It was, I mean, it never gets old watching a new archer pull back their bow, fire from long distance, send that arrow and have it hit like, have that balloon just so it's very visual than in that big smile and the big I think for you it was what was that fuck yeah or I think I said I want to say I think I said let's fucking go let's go yeah that was I mean I'll never forget that so I mean I want to thank you for bringing your energy to Oregon bringing your spirit to Oregon and just brightening up this place because it's been amazing the bow rack was amazing

Getting to know you better. Meeting Jonathan. The ultimate hype man. Yeah. My life is richer from the experience. You're an outlier. I very much respect you. Love your grind.

I want to highlight outliers and you fit the bill and I want to thank you very much for coming. It means so much to me, Natalie. Thank you. No, thank you very much. It's been an absolute honor. Thank you so much. I mean, learning. And the fact that I shot about, the fact that a lefty draw too.

Come on, can you? Yeah. Come on. Yeah, that was amazing. You're strong. You pulled that back, holding good against that wall, very accurate. And, yeah, that was a whole other challenge. The left eye, right eye, dominant, you're right-handed, but left-eye.

So you'd shoot a left-handed bow and just killed it. Thank you very much. It's been an absolute honor. You're the shit. Your entire team. Everybody, your family has opened us with open arms and truly, truly appreciate that. And so you're the man. You're always welcome here. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Keep hammering.

Cabellas and Bass Pro Shops is a sponsor of the podcast. And that's especially powerful for me because I remember when Cabellas came to town, came to Springfield, Oregon. And I actually played a role in the opening of that store. Instead of cutting the grand opening ribbon with scissors, I shot it with an arrow. And it was just a monumental thing. I mean, everybody here in town was talking about, hey, are you going to go to Cabellas? Can you believe Cabellas is coming here to Springfield, Oregon? So I know what a staple those giants in the industry are. And it's actually, it's one of the first places people go when they're looking to get geared up to become a hunter as they go to Cabellas and buy everything they need. So I'm very excited that we've partnered together and we can help open up those outdoor and hunting opportunities to listeners of this podcast. Loophole optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company, and they make such high-quality glass as all I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years.

Thank you, Loopold, for supporting the podcast.