Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 010 - Amala Ekpunobi

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Amala Ekpunobi is a podcaster and influencer for PragerU. Amala was once a student organizer for the left, which makes sense as she was raised in a far-left household. As stated in her bio, it was unanswered questions—and a search for the truth—that led her to a complete ideological transformation. Intelligently sharing her new conservative values online, Amala became a viral social media sensation. Now the host of PragerU’s show “Unapologetic with Amala,” she inspires millions of young people every day to discover the truth, defend their values, and lead better lives. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Follow Amala Ekpunobi: Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/theamalaekpunobi/ https://www.instagram.com/prageru/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/amalaekpunobi Website: https://www.prageru.com/   Special thanks to our sponsors.  MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/  Use code KEEPHAMMERING for a free BCAA when you purchase $75 or more First Light: https://www.firstlight.farm/ Use Code Cam15 for 15% off your first order Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/  Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/  Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro / Cabellas: https://www.basspro.com   Timestamps: 0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:26 Becoming a 22 year old influencer  0:02:27 Transition from a Left activist  0:03:45 The victimhood narrative  0:05:00 Families political division 0:09:00 Amala’s stance on BLM 0:10:55 Amala’s childhood passions 0:14:51 Future goals 0:16:58 TikTok to PragerU 0:21:21 Most impactful people 0:23:50 Difficulties of speaking at universities  0:28:25 Most rewarding aspects of work 0:30:42 Relationship dynamics and politics  0:35:26 Dissecting the race relations  0:40:30 Amala’s political stance  0:44:00 Tulsi Gabbard 0:45:30 What is PragerU exactly? 0:49:40 Amala’s LRS day 0:54:10 New fitness endeavors 0:55:15 Arguing with illogical people 0:57:30 Is college necessary? 1:01:30 Mindset is the key 1:02:48 Who are you without your problems? 1:05:55 Will Amala ever start hunting? 1:09:37 Have ice baths help prepare you for LRS? 1:10:20 Closing 1:12:03 Sponsorships  

Cabellas and Bass Pro Shops is a sponsor of the podcast. And that's especially powerful for me because I remember when Cabellas came to town, came to Springfield, Oregon. And I actually played a role in the opening of that store. Instead of cutting the grand opening ribbon with scissors, I shot it with an arrow. And it was just a monumental thing. I mean, everybody here in town was talking about, hey, are you going to go to Cabellas?

Can you believe Cabellas is coming here to Springfield, Oregon? So I know what a staple, those giants in the industry are. And it's actually, it's one of the first places people go when they're looking to get geared up to become a hunter as they go to Cabellas and buy everything they need. So I'm very excited that we've partnered together and we can help open up those outdoor and hunting opportunities to listeners of this podcast. Loophole optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glass. It's all I've really used. and if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill.

So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years. Thank you, Lou Pold, for supporting the podcast. Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my fuel gather up my head. I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with giving my blood so I am relentless. All right.

Welcome to the Keep Hammering Collective. My guest today is Amala. And I don't even know how to say, I've never even tried to say your last name. What is it? So it's Omola Epinobi. Epinobi. The K is silent in my last name for some odd reason. Okay.

So yeah, everybody's going to have trouble with it. Well, all I know is you're Gen Z, right? Yes. So you are my favorite Gen Z influencer. Is that what you are? Man, I guess so. Yeah. That means a lot.

That's awesome. Yeah. All the other ones are probably way more woke than you, I would guess. Oh, most definitely. Yeah. Do you know a lot of other Gen Z influencers, though? This is the test. Am I the only one you know?

You're probably the only one. I'll still take it. Yeah, but it's, I have been following you. I love what you do. I love the message you get out there. I love your spirit, I guess. It's just so refreshing. And it shocks me that you're 22 years old, right?

Yeah, I'm a baby. How? How does one go from whatever you, you were doing to being in the position you are with Prager, you. How'd that happen? Yeah, it was a long journey, I guess, from a really young age. I was super politically active and invested in activism and things like that just because of the way that I was raised. I was raised by a single mother who's very active on the left. So I had that deeply ingrained in my system from a real young age. And I always took politics pretty seriously and became an activist when I graduated high school

instead of going to college. And once that didn't go well for me, and I realized that wasn't the right political ideology for me, and I needed to start exploring, conservatism came around, and I started making videos about it on the Internet, and they just took off and Prager, you picked me up out of the blue. Well, okay, so you went through a lot of things right there.

Sure, sure. Can you get close to the mic, too? Yeah. Yeah. How did that transition happen? I mean, if you were so motivated to be politically, I guess on the other side of where we are now. How did that change happen?

What precipitated that transition? Working for the left in a lot of ways made me wake up. I graduated high school, having worked a lot as an activist in a voluntary capacity for my mother's organization that she was working for. So I was staging protests and going and talking to young people about getting involved with socialism and feminism and fighting the patriarchy. Really? Yeah, just all these crazy things. I was going around and just organizing the students at my school. Did you believe in it or were you?

I believe is, yes, yeah, I believe is the word for that. I wasn't educated enough to truly know where I stood, but I was taught from such a young age about my own victimization and about my place in the world as a young black woman, that that was just all that I had known. I knew that by virtue of being born this way, life was going to be hard for me and I knew there was a fight ahead and something that we had to push for. So from activists was just really what I identified with.

I wasn't really that well educated. So when you say you knew that you were, that victimhood was part of you, you knew because that's what people were telling you? Yes. Yes. Did you know that from life or just what you were hearing? No. So in retrospect, I look back at my life.

I grew up in a very small, rural, conservative, and, mostly white town in the middle of central Florida. I was doing really well in school. I graduated valedictorian. I worked a job after high school. I got scholarships to the colleges I wanted to go to. By every marker of success, I was doing pretty well. But because I had gotten that narrative, I was convinced that the world was set out against me for some reason. Did you experience racism or did you experience anything that you would be a victim about? You know, Here and there, kids in school would call me an Oreo because I was biracial and you'd get those little nicknames thrown out at you. But never any strong definitive examples of racism did I experience.

It was all stories that I had heard through the news and media and watching, you know, police shootings happening and attaching myself to the narratives of other people that made me really believe it. Yeah, that's interesting. So, and then when you, when this change happened that you spoke of, Mm-hmm. What did, was your, is your dad around? Was your, or was it just your mom? Yeah, it was just my mom at the time. So my parents divorced when I was around six years old.

Okay. My mom's doing my primary, my primary parent. And then, so how, when you said you changed basically philosophies. Yeah. How did, what did she think of that? I can imagine, she, she felt a lot of pain and I think maybe a deep sense of just betrayal. And I think that's normal for a lot of parents. You know, you, you raise your kids.

to have your values and then one day they turn around and sort of spit at you and say, I don't believe in what you taught me anymore. So it was a rough transitional period for her. And when I told her that, we'd go back and forth and argue on different issues. We'd argue about abortion and then climate and then immigration. And it would turn into these screaming matches that were just so uncontrollable. And we went through that really rocky road for a matter of months. And then at some point anything, she realized, oh, this is not changing. In fact, she's going to pursue this even further. So maybe we need to set politics aside. Right. And just not discuss it at all? We went through a period of not discussing it at all. It was like we were dancing around landmines

every time we talk to each other because it's her job. It's her career. She's so passionate about it. So it clearly came up in conversation. That's her job right now? Yeah. So she works for a left-leaning organization and fundraises and develops money. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I can imagine because on the other side of it, my daughter is going to a liberal school here in town, University of Oregon. And we're conservative. And so I could, you know, if she comes home with these woke ideologies, it's going to be an issue. Right. So it was the exact same thing, but opposite for your mother. So I understand, I think I would feel betrayed. Yeah, you'd be like, did I teach you nothing? Did anything? stick with you. You would feel it. You would feel it. You know, and I mean, we, we went through that even regarding COVID because people would see COVID and if they were afraid of it, then they would say, well, I want to get the vaccine. And this happened to many families, but I want to get the vaccine. And then maybe somebody in your family saying you don't need to because you don't, we don't trust

the government. We don't trust what's going on with the vaccine. So don't get it. And I know families had to deal with that internal thing about vaccine or not, just about that thing. Yeah. And that's all because of how the narrative has been spent, how media portrays things. And then they attach that to fear, which might be similar to what you went through because the media does highlight things and it does elicit response from people. And then you do, even if you haven't went through it yourself, I can't talk about racism, but even if you haven't, but you're like you can put yourself.

there. And so you can feel impacted. It's just, it is a hard time. Yeah. And they, they tie these stories and these narratives and these little issues and they say, you know, if not only can somebody disagree with you on this, but if they disagree with you on this, it points to a darker character in themselves and it actually shows that they're not a compassionate person. If you didn't get vaccinated, you're a grandma killer and you don't care about people and you're selfish. So they point to these deep internal values that one holds. So now you're just holding a basic political or medical position and people think you're the devil. Yeah.

It's really wild. It is. It's a crazy time. And I mean, as we've talked about, you know, in some side discussions, politics, it's, it, they like division because they, that gives them, they can play the whatever, whatever role they want to play. But if people are getting along, it makes politicians and people that want to sell fear a little less valuable. So they want that division. They want that keep people riled up. And you've talked about this in regard to BLM.

And what's your thoughts on that? I haven't heard, you know, I know you spoke on it, but what's your stance on it? Yeah. So I used to be super pro Black Lives Matter, marched with them, watched all the videos of police brutality that they pointed at as evidence for their movement and fell hook, line and sinker for this idea. you know, the house is on fire. Black Lives Matter, you need to help those people first. And then I realized just through trial and tribulation, really, that what they stood for was not going to help black people whatsoever.

They were calling for defunding the police. They're calling for the breakdown of the nuclear family, which has destroyed black communities. And I just ever so slowly started to realize these things and recognized that you can put a lovely statement like Black Lives Matter on any sort of wicked movement that you're trying to push forward. It doesn't mean you have good values.

It doesn't mean you're doing the right thing. And when I just found out that they weren't doing anything for the families that they were talking about, that they were taking in all this money and it was just disappearing and going nowhere, it was just hard to support. And now I stand on the other side going, you know, even a statement like Black Lives Matter

is inherently divisive and not something that we need at all. Yeah, I mean, I mean, who would say the black lives don't matter? Nobody's saying that. Right. I mean, I've never heard anybody say that. So it is. It's a slippery slope, though, because you want everybody to feel valued.

You want people who might feel disenfranchised to feel validated. I mean, I get it. Yep. But, man, it's a, this division doesn't help anybody. No. So with Prager, you, so how did that, you were working in a medical office, Is that right? Yeah, an allergy clinic.

An allergy clinic. I mean, that is living on the edge. Yeah. Really pushing the envelope. Well, so how did you go from there making TikTok videos to being this, I mean, a very influential young lady. I mean, how? I always say I just kind of stumbled into doing what I do now and tripped over myself and landed at

Prager You. Oh, I was going to back up. Yeah. Like in high school, were you always vocal and, um, annoyingly so yes I was the worst I was yeah so I was consumed with this idea of injustice and hating this country and hating conservatives and all these different things so I was seeking out injustice anywhere that I can find it and inserting yourself and inserting myself okay oh and this is such a strong point when it comes

to analyzing people who are on the left is that they are fueled by injustice or at least the fabrication of injustice and they need it to live I literally needed it to feel passion in life. So I was constantly looking for things to be mad at, constantly looking for protests to stage, and I did that. Really? Yeah.

So in high school, Florida experienced the Parkland shooting, and Florida proposed this bill of, okay, well, let's arm teachers if this is going to happen. And I came in full force. I was organizing students, showing up to the school board. Was this David Hogg? Yep.

Yep. So a lot of the drivers there, and in March for Our Lives, that whole movement. I got involved with them. I started going to my school board and yelling at my school board the committee and saying, I can't vote now, but I'm going to vote you out as soon as I can. I don't know where I got the audacity, but that's what I was doing. So I did that all throughout high school. It was always super, super vocal. Were you on debate? No. Did they have debate team? No, we didn't have debate team in high school, but I had speech class. And once a week, we'd be able to

present in speech class and all these people would talk about their dogs or their family and I would go and make speeches about women's reproductive rights or yeah the prison industrial complex and just these crazy things that nobody wanted to talk about at like 15 years old but why why did you have that interest what do you think I think I was super inspired by my mother and what she was working in day and day out and as a single mother you know when I had days of off school, I went to work with her and I met all these really wonderful, compassionate people who were doing the work, but they're also, you know, sending these little messages to me and shaping a sort of prodigy as far as the work that they're doing. So I wanted to impress people

by being a young person doing this and, you know, pushing the envelope, but also was just deeply convinced that it was the compassionate thing to do, that you had to spend your life advocating for people who were marginalized. Right. Yeah. Okay. So, It sounds like from your mother, you wanted to make a difference. I mean, there's a noble, I guess, slant to all that. You wanted to make a difference. And you still are making a difference. It's just not from the direction that you thought at once, right?

Yeah, I guess the shift that happened in my mind, and a friend of mine, Dave Rubin talks about this in a wonderful quote that he has when he says, when I was on the left, I was trying to control the world and change it and be, you know, transformative. And now that I'm outside of that space, I'm trying to understand the world and just learn my place within it. And now that's where I try to approach things. I'm not trying to bring about this big transformative, you know, move everything around and fix it and create utopia. Now I'm just like, okay. I'm navigating this earth.

What am I, this little human and where's my place? That's quite a, I mean, what a journey. I mean, because you start when you're 15, when most people are 15, they definitely aren't worried about making a difference in activism. You know what I mean? Right. So now you're 22, seven years later, and you've switched gears. But this impact you're making, this isn't normal. This isn't normal for somebody your age.

Where is this going? I wish I knew. Right now I'm just sort of taking it day by day because I could have never anticipated that what I was doing was even going to get me here. I, like I said, just started making those videos on my phone. That's just a hobby. I didn't even think anybody was really going to see it. It was just an outlet.

And when it took off, I followed that where it led, and it led to Prager You, and I guess I'll follow that to the next day. But I'm hoping that my job doesn't last for long because my job is pointing out nonsense. And I hope that the nonsense just stops so that you can go back to normal life. Yeah. I mean, so if your job doesn't last for long, what's, like I said, what's your goal? Is it just to continue to make a difference, make an impact on the world? Is it help young people? Is it politics?

For right now, it's helping people who were like me back then and maybe opening the eyes a little bit and saying, hey, you don't have to agree with me. But the world is not as bad as you think it is. You don't have to be as angry as you are right now. And in fact, you're going to be way more fulfilled on the other end of this if you just take a moment and listen to somebody different.

And once I've accomplished that, some extent, I think I'm just going to move on and be a mom. Really? Yeah. Maybe have a homestead or something. That's my goal. Get into the woods, huh? Yeah.

Just live the simple life. Yeah, I'll have to convince my boyfriend on that one. Yeah, I don't know. Just knowing what I know of you, that seems like a stretch. Yeah. Perfect. It might be. It seems like a stretch.

I don't know how long you'd last, just not making a difference or not, that this ripple effect that you, you know, are causing in a, in it, it's a positive, but I don't know. I don't, I don't see it just disappearing. Yeah, I think I meant for something else. I think so. So how, Prager you, how, how did that, we started to talk about it and I interrupted you, but no worries. So you went the TikTok videos and then who reached out of Prager and how that, what happened?

Yeah, so a couple people. I made a video about debunking white privilege on. on TikTok. It was a 60-second video where I said, white privilege isn't real. Black people get all these advantages. They got affirmative action. They've got preferential treatment on all these different platforms. They literally get to go and burn down cities in the name of Black Lives Matter and nothing happens. And that video went out and got 10 million views in a few days. And my producer Taylor, who you met, found the video as well as Sabrina, somebody you've met at Prager, you as well. and they just gave the video to one of the higher-ups there and contacted me and said,

you know, why don't you come out to L.A. and just tell your story for a series that we have called Stories of Us, where we walk through this transformation you had. And I came to L.A., told my story, and then at the end of the trip, they said, do you want to work here? Really? Wow. Yeah. And I was 20 at the time. And I said, okay, give me eight weeks. Went home. I dropped out of school. I broke the lease on my apartment.

I sold everything and then I moved out here. And any regrets? No. You love it? Not at all. Yeah, I was in a space in life, I think, at the time where if I had not made a big jump, I was just going to sit in stagnancy and never do anything that was, you know, phenomenal at all. So it was the push that I needed and just a jump that I think, had I not taken, I would just be, you know,

sitting in my hometown doing nothing, probably. probably. Yeah. And you know, people do, I don't know, that's a big move. You know, people would find a lot of reasons not to do that. You know what I mean? I got a good job. My family's here. What gave you the confidence or how were you brave enough to do that? Naivete. That was all that it was. I had this beautiful, picturesque image of what Los Angeles was. And by the time I got there and realized that it wasn't that at all. I was already there. Gotcha. So we got to work. Oh, man. Yeah. Well, what a journey. I mean, I can't believe, I just can't believe that journey for being so young and then having this type of impact.

How about writing a book? Have you ever thought about that? No. I mean, it's been offered to me, and several people have come and asked me about the possibility of writing a book. I feel like right now I'm in the middle of something that I don't know how it ends. So it'd be weird to kind of put pen to paper on it right now. And I also feel like the stuff that I talk about or bring is not necessarily new. These are really old ideas that have already been written a million times. And as soon as I have something new, maybe I'll write a book. What hasn't been written is that transformation from woke to conservative.

I mean, that is a unique journey. Most of time when people are young, you can't tell them anything. They already know everything. So the fact that you knew everything, you know, in your mind, to the complete opposite, that is rare. That is rare. Most kids, I mean, it's not until they're older when they're like, wow, if I only knew how little I actually knew, you know, every kid thinks they know it all.

So the fact that you're so self-aware and intelligent enough to look at that objectively and say, no, actually, I was wrong there. And this is, this is more my truth. That is, that's a rare quality. Well, thank you. I think I still struggle with a little bit too much self-confidence on things. Sometimes I'll catch myself, you know, falling for the same things that I did back then and having this strong sense of confidence because something maybe really emotionally drives me. and I don't have time to sift through the emotions and find clarity. So I guess that's why I have a little bit of hesitancy about writing a book because I'm like,

you know, I'm fallible. What if I'm wrong again about something else? Just the fact that you have that perspective makes you, you know, unique. So this journey amazing. Who have you had a chance to talk to or meet that stands out, that you, that has made the biggest impact on you since you've come out west. Ooh, that's a big question. Oh, my gosh.

I don't know that I have a good enough answer for that. There are so many people that I meet on a daily basis that come to me, and I'm sure you get this all the time when people meet you. They want to tell you their story and how you've impacted them. And I mean, every single person has something just weighing on them that they've been through and that somehow the content that you've created has shine a light for them and it's resonated for them.

So every time that happens to me, I'm just like, wow, I'm keeping that in the bank and remembering that for the rest of my life. But I'm trying to think of somebody who's really helped. Dennis and Allen over at Prager You, the co-founders, they've been really great mentors in what is not a really common thing for people to go through, and they've already been through it now,

and they've been sort of guiding my way and letting me know, what to anticipate. So that's been great. A role model that I haven't met is Tom Sol. I've watched everything that he has to say. I've read his books and hopefully I meet him before he's gone. How old is he?

He's 90. I think he's like 94 or something. So smart. I love that guy. He's unbelievably smart. Yeah, of course I've never met him either. But man, I really admire what he puts out there and what he stands for. Yeah.

He kind of reminds me in the way he speaks of David Goggins. He's just a no-nonsense man. He just puts it out there and he goes, you know, these are just, these are not my feelings about the matter. I investigated. Here's what you got. And I would just love to meet him because there's just, he just knows. Yeah.

I agree. I'll be right there with you. Yeah. So I did hear Dennis on Patrick Bet David's podcast and it was a pretty insightful. I think I mentioned this yesterday, but now I remember who was from. It's from him about how these colleges, they, anytime a conservative speaker comes, it's like the biggest issue. It's security.

It's, you know, people protesting. And he says his thoughts were that the reason why they're so protective over that is because a liberal college has years to kind of mold these kids. What's the word? Indctrinate the kids. Yeah. And then a conservative speaker can come in in an hour to all of a sudden throw a monkey wrench and everything because it makes sense.

And he's Dennis Prager's one who said that. Sure. And you said you've experienced some of these same things because you've spoke at colleges. Is that right? Yeah. So I will say on Dennis's point, I will disagree with him just slightly. I think maybe subconsciously that is their driver for why they show out in full force when conservatives come. But I think a lot of the students, at least the ones that I've met, are not fully conscious of why they're so angry.

And they just have been told that we are literally the root of evil. Yes. The exact, the enemy to their existence, to all of their friends' existence, and they truly think it. And when I started going to colleges, at first, I was like, oh, la-di-da, everything's going to be fine. Let's go to the first college. And the first college I went to, 50 kids came and protested me and stood there and

went and confronted them. They had no arguments for why they hated me so much. But they had made signs and spent the time to gather. What the signs say? Called me a white supremacist. They called me a Nazi. They said that hate doesn't belong on their campus. Just a bunch of really strong statements.

You don't seem like a Nazi. No, right? The first biracial female Nazi. Trendsetter, I guess. So what in the colleges, when they reach out to you to speak, what's the premise? They'll say, hey, you know, I'm a conservative kid. I'm running a Republican club at school or a free thinkers club. And it'd be great if you could come and speak.

to our student body and whoever wants to come will come. And then they put up a flyer that says, Amlap and Obie is coming to campus and then the swarm starts of the Democrat Club gets involved and the environmental club wants to suddenly say something and then the students just in full force. And I'll say what's the most shocking thing about going to these campuses is not only are the students protesting,

but faculty members are trying to close in their students their students and insulate them from hearing other opinions. And that's way scarier than any 20-year-old who doesn't want somebody on their campus. Yeah, that is. That's, I mean, if they preach First Amendment rights, freedom of speech, right? How could they in their conscious shut you down? Right. I mean, it doesn't make sense.

It's dissonance. They don't understand. They're not making the connection. And to be an adult who's supposed to be fostering a challenge for young minds and is supposed to be opening them. Right. To close them is just one of the most despicable things. And I like to think that they're not doing it consciously, as Dennis thinks they are.

I like to think that they don't know, you know, and that they're just fueled by, you know, blinders. But it's hard at this point with how bad it's got. What's the answer? What's the answer for fixing that problem? What is the answer for fixing that problem? I think the hard answer is the students have to experience. their ideology and what it looks like in practice and recognize that that's wrong. And that's what I had to do is I actually had to go into the lion's den, work it out, work for the people

who I thought I supported, and then realize, oh, this doesn't bring about good results. And what is unfortunate is that a lot of these students are going to be really unhappy and miserable for a lot of their lives with the way that they're thinking. You just hope that maybe one day through the misery, they realize, oh, I'm bringing this about. out on myself. I'm bringing this to myself. Right. I mean, does that, do those situations steer you clear of going to college and speaking, or are you more energized? It's like a half and half. So I, it fuels me 100%. I'm way more fueled by hatred and people

who want to debate than I am by even supporters of my content, although I love them dearly. I'm trying to speak to the old me. And so I'll go to college campuses whenever I, I get the chance to. There is a little bit of fear involved. Yeah. I certainly have to really cross my teas and dot my eyes as far as security is concerned because in my mind, you know, I'm a small little 22-year-old woman. I know you carried that rock today. Yeah, I carried that seven-pound. I know. You might be small, but you're strong. Yeah, I'm going to toss one of these protesters over my shoulder. You might, I don't know. Pretty tough. So I keep it in the back of my mind that, you know, it only takes one person to really lights out.

Right. So I always try to be hyper vigilant with that. Yeah. And what's the most rewarding part that you've had? I mean, you've had, obviously, you spoke of the challenges with the protest, but what's something that stood out that's positive? Times where I've gone and students have protested me and I've walked up to them to speak to them and say, you know, just come into the event.

I am just like you. In fact, four years ago, I would have been standing right here with you doing exactly what you're doing. Now I just want to talk. And the students go, okay. And they walk into the event. That is like, you know, a light bulb goes off and I'm like, I've done my, I've done my job. Or when people walk up and say, you know, I watch one of your YouTube videos and you changed my mind and I realized that I was not thinking the right way on that specific issue. Yeah. Makes my life. That would be rewarding. I mean, but I can see that if they just listen to you and give you a chance, it's really hard to not support your journey and your thoughts because they're

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known business so they have my full support. Use code keep hammering for 20% off your first order and 20% off subscription to the coffee club where you get exclusive coffee blends and merchandise. How does your mom feel now? She has come to be proud of the amount of success that I've managed to amass, but she's still not happy with the messaging, of course. So I don't think I'm ever going to see a major shift on that for her just because when you've dedicated your entire career and your livelihood to something, it's really hard to make that change. So she hasn't wavered at all?

No. Not in anything. Your perspective hasn't like a little bit impacted her? I will say it's impacted her in the way that she views people who have different opinions. because it used to be, I can't be friends with them, I can't hang out with them, I don't want to talk to them. And now that you have a daughter that you have to talk to and you have to hang out with, she's realized, okay, now I think I can do that for other people who I disagree with.

Well, that's a win. Yeah. I mean, because we do need to be able to listen to people who feel differently than us. Yes. And be empathetic and conscience of, okay, well, here's why they feel this way. And I can understand that. That's what we're lacking, it seems like, these days. it's like it's that division that's there is no middle ground.

Yeah. So I guess even in your family, you've navigated that and it's been successful. Yeah. Do you have any of that in your family where you have disagreers? Um, yeah. I mean, yeah, definitely. I mean, my sister, she, I don't know, she was very smart, went to the U of O here. But we just did not get along.

And, um, she was very opinionated just like you and very smart. And so it was like there's a lot of arguing. I can't even remember what it's about now. I think hunting probably. But for sure, probably politics too at some point. So yeah, I mean, families, you know, it's a family dynamic. There's people who no matter what your journey dictates, somebody else is going in a different way.

And they might have feel differently about things. Sure. And that's the way it goes. I mean, even at my job, you know, that was sort of like a family. And there's so many people who were, If you just even go to the mask, no mask, you know, because I didn't wear a mask at work. And I said, I'm not wearing a mask. I thought I was going to get, you know, suspended or whatever.

But there's people there who I really admired, really looked up to this one woman in particular, very smart. And she would look at me with no mask. And I could, she was just like furious. And I would look at her wearing a mask and I would be irritated. And I'm like, something as stupid as this is going to cause, you know, being a human is, I mean, it's such a beautiful thing. And relationships that we form are so powerful. But now I look at her, she looks at me. And because of something so dumb as a cloth mask, we not hate each other, but definitely not positive feelings.

Right. And that, I mean, that's frustrating. But I can imagine there's families who went through that same thing, just over a mask. Yep. And now you find out that the mask didn't do anything. And it's just like, how much heartache did that cost, let alone vaccines or anything else, but just a mask. Yeah.

You really have to train your brain to let these things exist in the moment and to let them not phase you. And it's difficult. I still struggle with it to this day meeting people who I disagree with and going just why. Yeah. How could you possibly, even though I know how it's possible. I believed it literally five years ago. So it's so difficult. And now I'm in this process.

And again, I fail at this all the time of just going, it's okay. Everything's fine. It doesn't matter if they change their mind. My day's going to go about itself. And you can still build a strong relationship with these people. You can still love them. You can still be compassionate and just try to keep that as a reminder. But it's hard.

It is hard. And then I was such an anti-everything. I'm like, I'm probably going to die from this shit. And then they'll be like, see? Right. Right. And then I'll be like, God, I was wrong. And then they'll cheer it on and, oh, gosh.

I know. It's, I don't know. So the fear still got you a little bit. So you saw all these people who were, you know, masking up, getting triple vaccinated and you go, wait a second. Are they actually right about this? I didn't think so, but there's always a voice in the back of your head. Yeah.

Like, what if they are? Right. What if I actually get this? I didn't think I was. I didn't think I was. But, I mean, they created so much. At first I was like, I thought everybody's going to die. You know how when it first came out and then after a couple weeks, I'm like, okay, whatever.

What is this just for old people? I mean, if I was old, I guess I'd worry about it, but I'm not worried about it. But yeah, still, they did such a good job with the propaganda. It's like, man, even me, I still at times wondered, if I die from this, I guess I lost. Right. The wild thing for me when this all first started was living in my town, like I said, rural conservative, and then walking into the street or into town and then just the silence. Everybody was home.

Everybody was locked down. And that can really convince you. That can really go, well, if everybody's doing it, I must be wrong. I must be doing something wrong. So I certainly in the first few months was like, oh, this is real deal. We're going to die. I know. That's what they were selling.

Yeah. I mean, and they made a bunch of money off of it. Yep. So I guess it worked for them. Good business plan, Fauci. Luckily, we woke up before the needles came out. I know. I feel bad because I don't know anybody, as they say, I don't know anybody who got the shot who's glad they got it.

But I know people who didn't who are glad they didn't get it. You know what I mean? And it's just a weird time. I don't know. It's crazy time. So I was thinking about this too. Yeah. You switched with Black Lives Matters.

You switched. What is the answer from your perspective? what is the answer to the race relations in this country right now? Oh my God. Just stop talking about race. Yeah. Why? Why?

I mean, I mentioned that yesterday about this like, oh, they're like keeping it out there. Yep. And I don't know who they are. I guess media. Yeah, it's hard to decipher at this point. Yeah. But so you think, I mean, I don't know. I'll be honest.

I've lived here my whole life. Maybe this isn't the most like diverse. place in the world. Sure. But I don't, I've never seen from my perspective racism or heard somebody actually like portray it how I guess the media or how people want to say, I've never seen it. Yeah. Here.

Yeah. This isn't the South. I get it. I'm sure there's places where it's terrible. But here I haven't. And it makes it seem like it's everywhere and there's injustice everywhere. But I don't think that's a case. I don't think that either.

And this is what I tell people all the time. You know, so long as the concept of race exists, racism is going to exist. Now, it exists in very small parts and in very small people and small-minded people. But yeah, it's going to exist. What the Black Lives Matter people tell you and all these people who are so race-obsessed, they are giving the proposition that this is systemic. It is baked into the country. It is quite literally everywhere, as you said.

It's not everywhere. Right. It's not. There's a few racist people, I'm sure, running around the United States of America, and you'll find them in other countries too. You'll find them in India and Africa and people who judge because they're simple-minded and they view patterns and they see something that falls outside of their pattern. But it's not as big of an issue as we're making it.

And as soon as we stop viewing the world that way, take a breath for a moment and realize that that's not the issue that we're dealing with, how much better are you going to feel? Yeah. And I meet these students on college campuses. And when I go for Q&A, it gets a little bit irritating in that I know what the questions are going to be. It's all these students who are trying to convince me that systemic racism exists and give me all these examples. And I just look in my head, I'm just looking at them and thinking, why do you want it to be true so badly? Right.

You truly want this to be in existence. Does I give them cause? Yes. Is that why they want it to be? Yes. Because then like, okay, now I have my purpose is, you know, my life has purpose. I can fight this thing. 100%.

I mean, I think you get that because that's kind of where you were. Mm-hmm. Right? You being an activist was your purpose. Yep. Right? So I guess you can understand where they're coming from. But, yeah, I mean, as they say, what you seek you will find.

Yes. Right? I mean, I remember when the kids, they used to play slug bug, right? So that you drive around, you see a Volkswagen bug or a Volkswagen van. A Volkswagen bug is a slug. bug. A van is a quadruple slug bug. But when you're looking for them, you see them all the time.

Yeah. Right? I don't even remember the last time I saw one because the kids haven't been playing this game. But the point is, whatever you're looking for, you will find. So if you're looking for racism, you will see something like, oh, did you notice that? And it's like, I don't know, was it really there? Or you're just looking for something?

A hundred percent. I used to get these kids who would walk up to me in school because I lived in a mainly white area and they'd go, oh my gosh, can I touch your hair? Like, your hair's so cool. of an afro? And I would be like these evil racist kids want to touch my hair when it was just curiosity. Right. It was just them wanting to know somebody who's different and possibly create a friendship with me. But because I was looking for it, it's what I found. Right. That's what everybody, we all need an enemy. I think like throughout human history, humans have had something to fight

against and something that they've constantly been pushing against. Now we're sort of in this hyper comfortable period in time where we don't really have. have an enemy to engage with all that much, except ourselves and then creating these fake divides. Right. And, you know, I do think that life is so good here in the United States, maybe not other countries. I know we have it, you know, as good as anybody could. But I think that we have it so good. People can focus on stupid shit. And I'm not saying racism is stupid. I'm just saying that people get distracted creating issues. 100% you know i think the drama queen has been thrown around you know in different ways but it's almost

like that for everybody and not everybody but some people they want the drama they want something to be worked up about and it's because life is so good we have it so you know easy so to speak that they have time they have time and energy to waste yeah and in the meantime we're just being suffocated by comfort it's just wild and all these elites or whoever they are, as we referred to them earlier, they're just taking in all this power that's created in the divide and in the comfort. So that brings me to politics. What's your political stance? You know, I don't know that I have one.

So working for Prager You, because we're a nonprofit and I won't get into the specifics, but we're a specific type of nonprofit that doesn't engage in political. discourse as far as like voting and in politicians so I can't speak too much on it but I will say that I'm kind of disillusioned with the whole system as it stands right now. I don't see anybody who's truly fighting in whatever our corner is and it feels like a lot of theater and it feels like we're all just getting constantly tricked to engage in a system that is not serving any of us so I don't know what I'm turning into in this process now but I'm kind of starting to give up a little bit. Yeah, I know. I thought that too, because I've worked, I've worked, I hate politics, but I like to

stand for what I believe is the right thing. Sure. And I think pride in our country. I think rewarding people who work hard, fighting for people who work hard. You know, I mentioned when I was, when I was a supervisor over, over construction, I always wanted to fight for the guys doing the job because I see a lot of places that management tries to take too much credit and they're not doing anything. And that's how I kind of see politics. It's like, are the politicians doing anything or just taking credit? Because the people actually doing it are our workforce and the people who show up every day and don't feel entitled to things. Those are the people who I believe in.

And normally that's a Republican more conservative slant. Sure. So I was like, well, I hate politics, but I'd like to, I want to help people who believe like that. So I tried to help with the presidential campaign. I tried to help with the governorship, the governor's race here in Oregon, and both the candidates lost. And then I was like, well, is this all theater? Are they all in on it together? You know, I mean, do they all go to these dinners together and, and they're elbowing each other?

Like, look at these idiots. They took all, you know, we took all their money. We took $50 million to run to be governor and didn't really have a chance. It all worked out how they wanted to. And I see the fundraisers and I see the like the college campuses where the Democrats come in and just run the show Republicans really have no answer. And it's like, man, it's frustrating. Yeah, we're in a messed up system as it stands right now.

I mean, you got politicians walking into their jobs with a bunch of money that they got from a lot. and fundraising and all this stuff. And they're supposed to be public servants, but they're leaving millionaires. So there's a problem there. They're staging these political theater moments that happen on TV that end up going viral. And I don't think those are truly real and organic

in any way, shape, or form. And at the end of the day, they're all fighting for their own expansion. You know, a politician you can trust is probably one who's not fighting for the expansion of their own governance. And those are few and far between right now. And I've honestly, I'm just getting to this point where I think it's the less government the better.

I'm right there with you and that the people doing the work should be the people who we're trusting. And that to me means less government intervention. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I mean, there's a couple. I like Tulsi Gabbard. Yeah.

I mean, she was a Democrat. She's a badass. Now she's independent. But I do like her. I believe her. I mean, we did a ruck with her 50 miles for the fallen in Hawaii. And we walked right by her house. It was like the most normal house ever.

I mean, just a regular neighborhood. And I'm like, I can trust this person. Because I feel like, I don't know. I feel like, you know, you look at, say, Nancy Pelosi making millions off of politics. Right. And then when you look at Tulsi, you go, for me, it says, oh, I know the system's broken because a person like her is not going to be able to go anywhere within it. She can't do it. I mean, she's not going to have the funding to do it.

She's not going to have, she'll have public support. But she's not going to have the support of the people who truly rig the game up for. The system. Yep. Yeah, the system. And that's, you know, to run for governor, it's 50 million. To run for president is 500 million. So if you're not associated with R&C or D&C, then.

where are you getting this money? Right. It takes, you know, $100 million, $300 million to run for president, but you're supposed to be a public servant who's getting paid $200,000 a year. Yeah. Make that at, or $400,000. I don't know what his salary is supposed to be, but please make that math work for me because it doesn't work.

Yeah. Even if you carry the one, it still doesn't work. Yep. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I didn't actually, I didn't realize that Prager You was not affiliated with any politics. Yeah. What's Prager You exactly?

So we are a 501C3 nonprofit. So you have 501C3, which just talks values. We can't tell you who to vote for. We can't tell you much about the politicians running or the issues or bills or legislation. We can tell you about our educational five-minute videos. We can tell you about conservative values, religion, whatever it is. Then you'll have TPSA who does a little bit of both. They can tell you who to vote for.

They can go out and knock doors and talk to people about legislation. So we don't have that, which is kind of a good thing. You know, at the end of the day, it's not really about these names and faces who you're seeing on your TV screen. It's about your values. So we have that to our benefit. Yeah. And TPUSA, they're for-profit. So actually, they're a nonprofit organization.

I misspoke. They're a nonprofit, but they have 501C3, which is that value-based talking. and then they're 501C4, which means they can tell you where to go and where to vote. Okay, I see. And have you done any work for them or? You know, I've been on a few of their shows, but we're not really too closely associated. You know, we're on the same team and everything and working towards the same goal, but not much work with TPAUSA. Okay.

Yeah. So you mentioned you want to meet Tom and talk to him, right? Oh, yeah. Who else would you love to sit across the table for? Oh my gosh, who have I not? You know, this is not necessarily a political person, but Wimhoff. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, you did the Wimhoff impersonation today. My Wim Hof impression on the mount. It was awesome. It's all about de Briff. Yeah. Yeah, he just seems like a man with a lot of wisdom. And I think he's deeply appreciated by the people who follow him and see what he's truly trying to get at.

But I don't think the scientific world has quite yet caught on to what he's. he's been able to access in the human mind. So, it'd be great to me. I mean, you mean with the cold baths and things like that? Yeah. I do hear that I do hear like Huberman talk about it. Susan Solberg talk about it. But does Wim Hof, I haven't followed him, does he have a different slant on it?

Yeah. So I guess he's been doing through breathwork and meditation and the cold exposure therapy and all these different things. He claims that he's built a resiliency in his body to things like infection and viruses. And they actually had. a team take on him and I think 12 of the people who have been trained by him and injected them with a virus in a hospital to gauge their response to it. And through his meditative practices and breathwork, they were actually able to alleviate a lot of the typical symptoms that

humans would respond. Things like fever and chills and all these different biological responses. He fought it naturally. Fought it naturally. By preparing his body. Mind, yeah. Wow. I didn't know that. Isn't that crazy? That is. And he claims that there are so many things that we are capable of just through really trying to make ourselves uncomfortable and engaging with our minds.

And they've done brain scans on him where they say he's accessing parts of the human brain that scientists thought were dormant. Really? Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Isn't that wild? That is. So I'd like to know more about that, I think. Oh, for sure.

Yeah. Well, that'd be an interesting one. Yeah. Yeah. Because every time I've seen him, he looks, I mean, I don't know, he looks kind of crazy a little bit. Like his hair's kind of wild and he's, I've never really spent time absorbing what he said, though. So I'm like making this judgment based on I don't even know what, nothing. And I did that too.

I looked at him. I was like, this guy is some weird guru, you know, hippie guy who has nothing to offer. And then you look a little further and you go, oh, wow. Yeah. He might really be on to something. something here. Yeah. This guy isn't, yeah, he's not just coming out of left field. Right. There's something to it. Right. I need to do some more research on that. So how the lift run shoot today. What do you think? You know, I think I came into this wanting to to push myself. I think I

achieved that. And like you said earlier, I think I've, I've never pushed myself so hard in my life physically, which is kind of sad in a sense that, you know, I'm at this young age and I haven't gone and done that yet. So I'm so glad to have done it in this environment. You got lots of time. Yeah. Yeah. But not that much time. No, you did great. I mean, it was, and I think Taylor even said that that was a hardest he's pushed in a while, if I remember, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. And he was filming you. Yeah. So you're bringing a whole lot of people to the light through this process. Oh, it was good. I mean, And also, you know, going to the Boerack, and I love when people get the chance to talk to Wayne

because he's like, he has so much he wants to say. He wants to teach, but also he has a lot on his heart that he wants to say. And I know he took some time out for you. Yeah. And we need more people like Wayne. Yes, he's got this aura about him. I'm not very spiritual or anything like that. But he's just so very calm.

And you can tell that he's actually slowing down and, taking in just every single moment. And he's so hyper aware of his surroundings and just truly patient. And those are things that I'm trying to work on every day in life, just reminding myself to slow down because you've probably noticed I'm a very fast just like going for hyperactive person. So to meet somebody who's just calm and ready and we'll take anybody at any stage in their learning and go, okay, we're going to do this today.

Here's what we're going to do. It's one reason why, I mean, you can go into the bow rack. and you will leave with an armful of things. Yes. Because it's like, no, Wayne told me I need this. He's like, he is so good at, you just want to believe what he says. Exactly. Because it's like, it's delivered with such conviction.

You're like, this guy's got to know what he's talking about. Yeah, you guys have a very similar temperament about you and that when you're talking, you just know, oh, they want you to succeed. They want you to walk out of here having accomplished what you set out to accomplish and and way more. And they want you to know that, you know, if nobody else has faith in you, I've got faith in you and you can do it. And like to leave with that is such a powerful thing.

You know, a lot of people don't get that in life. Yeah. Well, I mean, my goal was to see you hit that balloon at long distance. Yeah. And you set the Keep Hammering Collective record, the women's record. The women's record. You know, we got to separate the sexes when it comes to sports. Donald Serroney has the overall.

all the men's record. You have the women's now at 49 yards. Natalie was at 48. But you shot great. Thank you. You shot great today. I mean, and you know, you hadn't shot since you were 12 years old. I think. Yeah. Thanks to the Hunger Games, you got a bow from Walmart. From Walmart. Yeah. I think it was like maybe $30 or $40. Yeah. The bow that I got in the arrows were maybe 60 cents each. Well, and then we had a little bit of a challenge because we had the left eye, right eye, dominant issue. So today we covered up the lens on the left side. You got out to 49 yards and you shot so well. We just got that sight a little bit tweaked. And then you were you were all around that balloon finally got it. It feels good to just go through the trials and just keep going until you get it. Keep going until you get it. Because sometimes you're just like, oh, I don't want to intrude.

I'll try to the extent that they let me try. And if I don't get it, I don't get it. But you're like, you're going to get it. No, we're going to be here until you do it. We were going to be. Yeah, we'd still be there. Yeah. But you got it quick. And then came in here, did a nice lift.

How was that? My arms are going to be feeling this for the next. Oh, you did. You did great. You did great. I didn't know. I didn't know that you were as, I don't know, physically capable as you are. I mean, you hammered out the mountain.

You kicked butt. You shot the 49 yards. You lifted in here. It's like, man, you underserved. told yourself. Yeah, I guess. I don't, I probably if we had done this two months ago, I would have been an even worse shape. This has been a recent thing where, not really when this year turned around, but over the past few months, I've just been having this voice in the back of my head going like, you need to start working physically. It's going to help you so much mentally.

It's going to help you in the work that you're doing to just start your day out right. So the fitness journey has been a recent endeavor that I think I need to keep up with. With the cold plunge too. With the cold plunges too. Yeah. Yeah. Those started about 30 days ago. I don't know where we're at in that. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we're going to do one still today. Yes, we are. So, yeah, it's been a great day. It is. I'm going to do a little Q&A here with you. And I put this post up and people had, I just loved what they had to say about you. It's, let me see here.

Let me get to this again. Oh, here we go. So the questions I have here, oh my God, I love her so damn intelligent. Not really a question, but that's just really nice. I know. Yeah. I mean, that's the feelings you elicit. So, I mean, you're doing a great job.

This is a pretty good one. With illogical people, how do you decide to dialogue or leave and not waste your time? Okay. I can give everybody what I think is a tried and true test. when talking to people who you disagree with. And you ask them one question, is there any information that I could give you right now that would change your mind on this subject matter?

And if they go, well, let's say you're talking about the COVID Vax, and you say, is there anything right now that I could change your mind on this subject matter? And they go, nope, nothing you can change my mind about. Done. Your conversation's over. You're dealing with somebody who is an ideologue. They believe what they believe no matter what is put in front of their face.

But if they go, yeah, you know, you could show me that the vaccine doesn't work in 90% of cases. And then maybe I would believe you. Continue the conversation. That's somebody who is at least has some logical part of their brain intact and working. So if they're dug in, then it's not worth the time. Yeah, because they're quite literally telling you in that moment that it does not matter how hard you try, how much evidence you put in front of my face or how you deliver that evidence. I am not going to believe you no matter what you say. So that's a good clear marker for me

that maybe you shouldn't waste your mental energy on that person. Do you remember a time where somebody was pretty staunch in their beliefs and then they said they were open to it? And you were able to talk through anything with them? I meet people on college campuses and students that come. I think what has really made me successful in terms of discourse with people is having that prior experience as a leftist. It really softens people when they talk to me a little bit.

And students will come and say, you know, I get what you're saying. And I get why you changed your mind. But I disagree with you on this point. And they come wanting to really challenge me and wanting to hate me. And then as the conversation goes, they know I'm like, I'm not going to bite you. I'm not a mean person. And then they soften a little bit. And some of them end up coming around eventually, although it takes some time.

This is, this reminded me of one. So you are in college. You mentioned you speak at colleges. You dropped out of college. How do you see college for a young person now? I mean, is it necessary? Is it mandatory? Obviously for a doctor, you have to go to school.

But where do you see college as far as importance in this day and age? Yeah, if it's mandatory for your career, then it's mandatory for your career. Go ahead and do it. if you are armed with critical thinking skills and you're ready to be in college and, you know, maybe hear views that are completely dissident to everything that you believe and just try to steer through it, go to college. Do I think it's necessary? No. I think you can achieve just about anything you want to achieve in this world outside of lawyer, doctor, not going to college and I think it was unfortunate that from a really young age it was hammered into me that

college had to be the experience that you had. It was just the only jump you could make. And, you know, when I told people, I'm not going to college, they freaked out on me. How did you're going to homeless. Because you were valedictorian, you said. Yeah, yeah. And they went, how dare you, you know, you can't end your high school career valedictorian and then not go to college. You know, you're, you're going to be on the street. You're never going to make it anywhere. And then you get out into the real world and you find that there's so many people willing to accept you or give you experience without having had that college degree. What's the key to succeeding without college? Mindset. Mindset. Mindset. I, when I graduated high school, I applied for so many jobs that I was

unqualified for. And this is something that in looking into some of the feminist narratives, women are not encouraged to do, or at least women do not naturally think that way. Men, when they go into the job market they're like I want this job I don't care if I'm qualified for it I'm going to apply for it I'm going to negotiate a higher salary and women are just so agreeable and nurturing that they go well I'm not ready for that job yet and I applied for hundreds of jobs that I was not ready for yeah and ended up just getting somebody willing to take me up on it so if you want to learn something get a job that facilitates that learning if you can't get a job

that facilitates that learning do everything you can in the vein of self-education to get to a point where you can get that job. Is that attitude like where men, they're not qualified, but they'll try to get it and they want more money when they get it? Is that just the difference in male and female? I think so. Yeah. I think so.

I mean, some people might argue that it's nurtured or anything, but I do think just men naturally have that propensity to just go for things. They are naturally more competitive with one another when it comes to everything. when compared to women. And they just have more testosterone, more assertiveness. They're way more ready to put themselves in a position that, you know, might go south. Yeah. And, I mean, you know, college demographics these days speak to that because more women are going to college than men.

Yeah. I think it's switched to, I think it's me and Chris Williamson talked about this, but it's like 60, 40 maybe women in college as opposed to men. And, yeah, I don't know. So what is happening is you're getting all these qualified women, professional women, these guys who aren't an equal in regard to academics. And so it's made it harder for women to find a mate because they want an educated. If they're educated, they want an educated man.

So it's made it difficult. But, yeah, it's just so strange how, and a lot of people do say college is mandatory. if you want to be successful. If you want to be, you know, make it. And if you want to the American dream, college. But you've proven that's not the case. I didn't go to school. But, you know, obviously we're different people.

But, yeah, I mean, so you said mindset is the key. Is that just having a passion and believing in yourself or believing in your skills? Or what do you mean mindset? Yeah, I think the first prerequisite is totally believing that you can do it. without having gone to college. If you don't think that, then I mean, you might as well just sign up and start going to whatever university is closest.

But it is about thinking there are ways that I can achieve this without doing the XYZ plan that I've been given. And people will go and find barriers. Well, I shouldn't apply to that job because I didn't go to college or I shouldn't, you know, go out and do this because I should totally go to college first.

But instead, think about, okay, without college, what's something I can do? Or what's the next step? Or how do I learn this without paying $40,000 a year to this university? And when you just switch the thinking a little bit and change it into like, I, oh, I didn't go to college into like, I didn't have to go to college. Right. It changes everything for you.

Instead of I'm a failure, I didn't go to, yeah, I can succeed in spite of no college. Yeah. I saw a video the other day of this girl just asking everybody a question. and it was who are you without your problems? And I was like, whoa, I don't think a lot of people sit down and ask themselves that. And if I had asked myself that question when I was 17, I would have been nobody. I would not have had a personality. So your problems were your identity.

Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of people are dealing with right now. It's just like, I can't, I can't, I can't. I went through this. Trauma, trauma, trauma. I have this mental illness. I identify as this thing. It's just like, okay.

what outside of that? Who are you when that's not around? Well, so who are you now without your problems? I'm hopefully a truth-seeking, compassionate person who's trying to build relationships and just better myself on a human level, on a psychological level, and somebody who's trying to build a life of just happiness and fulfillment. and I hope that's what I'm trying to accomplish day in and day out. But sometimes we get problems and they just, you know, cloud our vision. Then you deal with them and move on, right?

Yeah, we hope. You know, I mentioned Chris Williamson. He, I was curious about this too because you're so, I mean, you're such a good speaker. And he talked about before he does his podcast, he does these mental exercises. He does these vocal warm ups. he does he's got a mindset coach type thing. Wow. And I'm like, God, I don't do anything.

He's like he doesn't drink caffeine. He doesn't do this. He doesn't. So he can just be so sharp. And I'm like, wow, I do absolutely nothing. I drink caffeine all the time. I don't prepare. I don't have a coach.

So what do you do? How are you so good? Oh, I'm not doing caffeine or anything like that, although I might sound like I am at the time on my show. I think before I start the show, this wasn't something that I've always done, but before I start the show now, I'm thinking about how if somebody opens up their laptop today and finds my podcast and it's live, how can I make them feel like they're welcome and that they're being heard and that I'm not trying to just be

this divisive person all the time and just picturing different people opening and listening to the podcast and seeing how it resonates with them. So now I'm just trying to stay in that space of just compassion and trying to give good faith arguments for both sides and constantly trying to remind myself. But again, I fail all the time and sometimes things just piss me off. Right. But consciously you're like trying to be the example or trying to be fair. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I like that. I mean, I think, I mean, just having that objectivity is, I mean, most people don't have that. They think this is, I believe everybody should believe like this. Right. And so just you be an objective about it and thinking that, well, if somebody just happens upon this, how can I be more

open or I don't know, I don't know how to word it, but just thinking that, well, if somebody sees this, maybe they'll listen to me at least. Yeah. Yeah, I like that approach. Okay. Has she ever hunted and will she start? I have never hunted ever before in my life. I think I would do it once and once. Why once? Because I just want to develop a deep amount of respect and appreciation for where my food comes from and have that very human experience of being the person who gets your own food. I don't know that I would do it any more than that because I just don't know how necessary it is in my life. Right.

But I do think it's necessary now to develop that understanding because I don't have it. I don't think most Americans have it. I think that even once would be important. Yeah. Because, you know, for us to survive, animals die. Yeah. That's all there is to it. And so I can respect that, that you'd want to experience that one time at least because most people wouldn't even entertain the one time.

So I respect that. And, yeah, who knows where we'd go from there. But, you know, killing an animal is a big deal. But we do it with our checkbook all the time. Right. You know? That's where I'm at. It's just how do I move about the world with inflicting the least amount of damage

possible and not killing things unnecessarily. So it's finding that balance. You know, if I was hunting and, well, I'm the woman. I probably wouldn't be doing this. My husband would be doing this. But providing for the whole family with the meat that I was hunting, then we might be having a different conversation because it's far more humane, it seems,

than the system that we currently have set up, and we're actually talking about sustainability. But right now, if I started going on hunts, you know, quite often, I'd feel like I was unnecessarily killing things. I understand. I understand. I can respect the one time, though. I mean, that's, it is, it's a big deal. But I think it's important for, I mean, everybody to know how it works.

Because, I mean, I went to, there was a butcher shop that I went to in Idaho, and they were slaughtering cows. And it wasn't even that, I didn't enjoy seeing that. I mean, I hunt. I've killed a lot of animals. But seeing an animal die like that that wasn't in the wild was difficult. But it's important for me to see it because it happens every day. And so it's kind of in that same vein about doing it one time. I mean, I don't need to go to a butcher shop every day.

I don't need to see 30 or 40 cows. They kill 30 or 40 headed cows every day. I don't need to see that every day. But I think it's important to know that for us to survive, it takes life. Yeah. And I mean, we talk about overcoming barriers like the ice bass and the mountains and things like that. I can't think of a bigger barrier than I'm standing at the other end of a bow and saying, okay, I'm going to let go of this thing. And something's going to die because of a choice that I'm making right now.

And I think that's a tough thing to grapple. with. Yeah. At least for me. I don't know. Some people I feel like it's just like it's easy for them. They can go out and just and just do it. I mean, yeah, for me when I first started, I didn't even think about it. I could kill an animal and I wouldn't even think. Now that I got older, it actually means or there's more gravity to it. Yeah. And I think I've just grown up. I have more compassion than I did when I was a kid. But yeah, some people probably do. They were like me when I was young and didn't think about it and just like, yeah, I'll go kill a buck, whatever. But yeah, we change. We evolve as humans, you know, that we have a different mindset. But yeah, it's an

important journey. No doubt. Yeah. So here's one. Did her ice plunges help her prepare for today with you. So did that mental strength come in handy today? I think so. Yeah. I've been in the ice plunges. I'm like, don't be a bitch. Don't be a bitch. Just go and do it. Just do it. So that helped especially with the cold up there on the mountain and the slush. So just that nagging voice in your head that's saying, you know, don't, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. And being able to quell that a little bit, maybe the ice baths have helped a bit. Oh, you were very tough today.

You were very tough today. Last one here. Okay. Yay, love her and her show. Thanks for showing her around town. So that's it. Just lots of support for you. That's great.

You're making a difference in this world. I'm honored that you're here. I'm honored to be able to talk to you because I do respect what you do. And I think you're an important voice for this younger generation. And I respect your journey too because it has, you've changed. You've evolved in your thinking. And hopefully you can help others also, whether they change or not, whatever, but just be objective about how they look at things.

And the way you've done it with class and dignity is something. we all can learn from. Thank you. So. Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you, Amala. So much kindness over the past two days. It's just been really wonderful.

You deserve it. So how I always in the show is this way. Okay. Handing you your own bow. Oh, wow. You keep hammering point. Love it. There it is.

And I give that to who I believe are outliers. And for the reasons I just mentioned, you were an outlier. And you deserve a brand new Hoyt. I love how you shoot it. I love how you handle it. But mostly I love that you're an archer. And yeah, it's been a journey from Katness days in 2012, I guess, at the Walmart bow to actually getting a good Hoyt bow here.

Yeah. I mean, it's an honor to give it to you. This is a real deal. Thank you so much. And thank you for sharing your life with me over the past few days. It's been just an incredible experience and just, I don't know, it's pushed me in ways that I'm definitely going to remember. Thank you for coming to Oregon and experiencing my little life as a bow hunter.

Anytime. Take care. Keep hammering. Hoyt archery has been my bow hunting sponsor since 2005. And personally, I really don't care what bow you shoot, what brand it is. I just hope that you have the same level of confidence in your equipment as I have in mind. Because I know if I get one opportunity with my Hoyt, it's going to pay off. I think a lot of you guys will be interested in this next sponsor.

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