Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 019 - Kip Fulks

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

Kip J. Fulks, has been a f-up as a student, once spent the night in jail, worked like hell to become an honor grad in college, is a collegiate hall-of-fame lacrosse player, was a professional athlete, co-founder of Under Armour, the ultimate unpolished, “give you the hard truths” leader, while at the same time being a business savant. The lessons he’s learned in life and business could help us all. But, most importantly Kip is one of my best and most trustworthy friends.    Enjoy the listen.    Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Kip Fulks: https://www.instagram.com/13pacificwaves/ https://btfbeer.com/ https://originmaine.com/   Special thanks to our sponsors: Santa Cruz Medicinals: scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off Keytone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Black Buffalo: https://blackbuffalo.com/discount/CAM use code CAM for 15% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping First Light: https://www.firstlight.farm/ Use Code Cam15 for 15% off your first order Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com   0:00:00 Introduction 0:01:46 Early UA Hunt days 0:03:32 UA Hunt at its pinnacle 0:05:55 Transitioning to Origin 0:09:00 Overseas vs. American manufacturing 0:13:35 Kip and Cam hunt highlights 0:15:00 Seeing the benefit of social media early on 0:21:47 Importance of self promoting 0:27:47 Kip vs. Truett carrying the rock 0:29:00 Lift, Run, Ice Bath 0:30:37 Kip and Cam’s years of adventure 0:33:00 Wyoming cameraman blunders 0:37:23 Snickers bar from God 0:40:02 Colorado heart attack 0:42:40 Roy’s buck 0:45:27 Return to Alaska 0:57:28 San Carlos Adventures 1:04:41 Get your ass to work 1:06:00 Paying your dues 1:08:48 Method and Mindset 1:15:00 Using measurables to be held accountable 1:20:46 Learning from outliners 1:25:10 Applying what you learn 1:30:48 Friends pushing each other 1:36:00 The Colonel 1:43:00 Big Truck Brewery 1:47:17 Ego - the bastard child 1:53:00 Closing  

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I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with giving my blood so I am relentless. All right. Keep Hammering Collective with Kip J. Folks. Jay is his middle name, J.A. Y. How you doing? Good man. This is sweet. I've been, I mean, I'm so pumped you're here.

I mean, we have such a history together, and it is, this is really special to have you sit across from me at the podcast table. Thank you so much for coming out to Oregon. No, watching you do this to transition from what you were doing before, which you hammered for many, many years. Springfield County. Springfield Utility Board. Yeah. Shout out. Yeah.

And to see this come to a lot, it's just cool to be here. Well, I mean, I don't think it would have happened without you. I mean, not even just this last journey in this business here, but without you believing in me when you were at Under Armour before this. And I guess vouching for me or fighting for me or fighting, maybe just not for me, but for the hunt community and group, you were the, I guess, the inspiration in the brink. rein trust behind you a hunt and without that who knows if I would have made it up my way in this

industry yeah and I have to give a lot of credit to some people at Under Armour 2 that they brought you to the table and they're like we want to sponsor this runner from Oregon and I'm like yes so you don't understand we're doing a hunting division right and they're like no no he's he's badass bowhunter too. And that was Brian Boring, who originally introduced that idea. So I got to give Brian some props for that. And man, what a good run. Oh, it was amazing. I mean, when Under Armour Hunt was at its pinnacle, that was, it was so fun. You were making kick-ass shit. I was doing what I do, being sponsored by a giant athletic brand, which didn't even seem real for, for decades in hunting until it happened at Under Armour.

And we made the most of it, didn't we? It was funny because I kind of quit to get that job at Under Armourner. So Kevin and I started the company together many, many years traveling all over the world to make stuff. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I want a division I can believe in. You know, football, basketball, lacrosse, some of the core sports. I loved them, but I wasn't passionate about them anymore.

So I actually quit to start that division. I said, I want that. or I'm out. Right. And we hemmed in Hall. We argued like, you know, boys do. And we were young at the time. And we hadn't gone public yet as a company.

And Kevin gave me the chance to do it. And, I mean, we made a, we made a splash. Man, that was, I mean, what was it at, like, at its pinnacle at Under Armour? Well, I know the industry noticed because you're, there's always a first person out there, but then you got these companies who then, okay, it's a competition. Now they stepped up. And that kind of brought in Kew and some of these other sitcom. Yeah, but think about what was happening when we first came on the scene.

It was printed camouflage on cotton. And that was, you know, there was some jackets and some rainwear that, you know, some of the guides wore some rubber. And you remember all the stuff the Alaskan guides wear. But when you think about what the modern hunting. today and then what we were doing in like 98, 99, 2000, 2001, we took performance fabrics to hunting, just like we took performance fabrics to football and baseball and hockey and lacrosse. And before that, they were wearing real tree on a long sleeve cotton.

Right. Or a cotton jacket. And if you, if it was going to be bad weather, you put on a bunch of layers. Yeah. Or you hope that someone gave you a rain jacket from Gortex. that wasn't hunting. Yeah. And now it's the standard issue.

I know. It's, you know, there was a brand way back, I think before Under Armour, Rivers West. They were good stuff. They were good other than they were just hot.

They just didn't breathe. You know, I mean, yeah, you'd stay, it would keep the rain off, kind of, it absorbed a little bit,

but you wouldn't die. It was kind of a heavy, yeah. Like almost fleecy fabric. Right. Right. Like, you would sweat your,

you know, right off in it. Yeah. I remember those guys from the shot show many years ago. I know. I always looked at it like, wow, if their product got a little bit better, we changed the whole game. And then, you know, hey, competition breeds, you know, better product. And so people, I got to give a lot of companies, a lot of credit.

Right. I mean, that's where Kuyu, Sitka, and those guys, they're like, okay, well, I guess it's on. And now we have all this high end material. The amount of money people spend for hunting and on clothes specifically, it blows my mind. We used to have arguments at Under Armour back in the day if we were going to be able to sell a jacket for $189. Right. And we used that Ridge Reaper jacket that we came out with that Mark. I love that first one with the orange. Yeah, that Kobe and Marcus Strata made. And we argued over 189 versus 200. And I was like, no, it's got to be 200. They'll be like, nobody's going to buy it. Yeah. And now you think about

all the products out there today. And then that kind of led us to origin. I know. And now, after all that, now we're both with origin and it's an American made really i mean it's American dream but it's American made company that's trying to compete with because let's face it under armor kuyu sitka they're all made overseas i mean there's really no other way to do it unless you're just going to take this path of like it's just a beat down i mean you can get a sample you can turn a sample you can get a cost you can get uh you know a bunch of athletes samples, you can get it easy in Asia. They have whole teams that are designed to deliver what you need. And here in the States, it's just not like that. You really have to, what Pete and Jocko

have done, own the factories, or you have to have a partner who's willing to invest and, like, build this slowly. Right. And so you can't grow overnight because you can't make that much product. So for companies, growth is important. And so, they just go where they can get the volume. Right. And, you know, I've been to factories all over the world. And I was telling you earlier in Tanner, like I remember going to factories in Cambodia.

And, you know, there's thousands and thousands and thousands of people working in those factories. I go to some factories here in the States and I love seeing those factories. But let's be honest, it's a couple hundred people. Right. And that's a big factory. Right. And so you see like origin will come out with, I know, I just know because it's my name's on it, but that Cameron Haynes line or whatever,

it is that signature hoodie sells out. Yeah, we can't make them fast enough. Right. And it's because of that, it's just, it's just workforce. That's Texas cotton, milled in South Carolina, died and finished in South Carolina, shipped to North Carolina, made by the origin blockchain shipped to people in America. I mean, all your money stays right here. I mean, it's beautiful.

It's beautiful. I mean, and I think it's, you know, it's a slow, it's a slow burn basically to get that production up. But, man, hats off to Jocko and Pete for having this vision about bringing manufacturing back to America. I mean, they're just patriots. And I think they saw something, you know, Pete's been doing this 10 years. So this is not like a, hey, you know, after COVID. You know, a lot of people are looking at the U.S. supply chain going, we need to resure it up. He's been doing this for 10 years and he started with it, you know, jihitsu.

And it's pretty impressive. He also, you know, double mortgaged his house, sold everything he had, borrowed money from his buddy to Deco. He used to drive to Boston and get cash from a guy to help him pay his employees. Like, people don't know the strife that goes behind the scenes to try to, like, build back America. And it's, you know, I'm a small part in it. You're a small part in it.

But hopefully we play a big enough part to tell everybody, like, Hey, let's move this needle a direction that's in favor of the country. Yeah. Kind of not hard to get behind. No. Hey, Kip, do you want to join? I'm like, yeah, man, I'm not that bright. That sounds cool.

I was actually a part of the problem because I moved all the production overseas. Right. So it feels good to me to be on the other side of the coin. I bet. Yeah. I mean, and I've heard you talk on other podcasts, too, about this, the difference between, I mean, not the restrictions, but the, challenges in manufacturing in America just because you have the EPA comes in and maybe over

in China you know who knows what the rivers look like over there compared to the restrictions that we have here and and doing it right and and following all the laws and all the safety restrictions that are here not restrictions I want to say I keep saying that but guidelines um and it's it's just a different set of challenges that they don't face overseas it's literally they're playing by different rulebooks. It's like literally you go to a college in Idaho and I go to a college in Maryland and we both take math, but one is using a math book from first grade and one is using a math book from like college professors. Right. It's totally different math. Right. But yet you're both going to college for math. And both and essentially competing for the same market. Correct. When you're talking about manufacturing.

So I think it's changing, but we do. have to, you know, I think anybody that's listening to this, whether it's your food, whether it's your clothes, whether it's your car, you know, just take a hard look at America first. You know what? If they don't offer something that's right for you, that's, I get it, I understand it, but I think when you need to pause and look first and not just run around and take the easy choice, the easy choice in life, and I think this is Keep Hammering Collective 101. The easy choice in life generally is the wrong choice.

Right. And so I think if Americans, anybody listen to your podcast, just pause when you're using your dollars. Yeah. Hey, where's it going? Who's it's important? So I think it's important. I'm behind it 110%. I know you are.

I know Jocko and Pete are. It's easy to get behind. Yeah. It's, I mean, I love to see it. I love to see people talking about it. And, you know, being sold out, there are worse things that could be. You know, I mean, it could be like if there is no demand and we had a big inventory. So it could be worse, but I'm just, I'm honored to be involved.

And my hat's off to Pete Roberts for the sacrifices he's made. You mentioned him over these years and all the personal sacrifices in chasing this dream. And then Jocko for just being the badass American that he is. It's an honor to be involved with those guys and you and, you know, Rogan's involved. And it's how incredible is it? We have some meetings.

We get on the phone. with FaceTime's, you know, I'm 100 miles an hour. As you know, I'm spitting out a bunch of stuff trying to get the business figured out. Pete's asking questions, spitting out things. Then Jocko just comes in with a one-liner. Yeah. So we need to keep this simple. We need to go forward.

Go. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, he kind of actually just said what I said, but I took 20 minutes to say it. Yeah, he said in five words. Go forward, go. And everybody's just like, let's fucking go. I mean, he's. What Jocko said. Yeah. Whatever it is, if he says it, and he says it like calm, cool, and collect.

And then he ends it with a little gristle. Shit. Let's take the hill. I'd run through that wall if he said to. I'm like, yes, sir. And you feel like you're kind of like in the principal's office. I know. I'm like, I'm kind of a jackass sometimes.

You know me. I can run my mouth. I'm like, I want to push hard in business. And I'm like, think I know a lot because I've been around the block. So I'm like, let's fucking do this. And he's like, I'm like, shit. I'm going to the principal's office. Yeah.

It's all good when he's not looking. at you. Then when he, you know, you guys eye contact, then it's like, oh, God. And of course, you know, with his echelon front, he's doing a lot of leadership coaching for some of the best businesses in the world. Right. And so then he's on the phone with us. And I'm like, Jesus, he's probably going this guy. Yeah. What is wrong with this kid? This goofball. I know. Yeah. I mean, but what, it's a good group. And it's definitely the right. It's the right place for us to be. And, you know, Rogan and Jock and Pete. I think everybody. everybody has the same mission. Let's just turn this thing around. Yeah. Yeah. Let's make an impact.

Yeah. I mean, but what a journey. I mean, I just, you know, when I think of where we started and where we are now and then all we've been through together as friends, you know, I'll just go through the highlights. I mean, we've hunted together many times. We were hunting together when I found out that Roy had fallen and died. We were both in Colorado hunting whitetail or just deer. You've, you know, when Tanner graduated from Rasp, you flew back. I mean, you're here with my family. We went back there, Tanner ran the half marathon. We went back to, you know, Baltimore. And it's just...

Went back to. Alaska. Went to Alaska for, you know, my first time back since Roy died. We did that grizzly hunt together. It's just been an incredible, I just, I appreciate your friendship so much. And you've been here for my family and for me personally. And I just, I love you guys. Like, you know, like I love my family. And, you know, it's funny is I think back at all those years, you know, you rewind and you play these little moments. And I think it's interesting for people to know this. is like I was kind of hard on you as your sponsor. You know, you were like, you know, you guys need to pay me more money.

I should be your number one athlete. You know, you're doing what you should do. You're selling yourself. And I'm like, you got to believe in yourself. And I'm like, nope, no, no, no. And then you just keep grinding it out. And, you know, one of the things I got to give you a ton of credit for. And I don't think people know this is like for a long time, you did some writing,

you did some shows. and you've just been hammering the hunting and bow hunting. But you were one of the early adopters of social media, and you like figured it out, you started it yourself, you didn't have a company behind you, there wasn't a bunch of investors, and if you look at what your social media has done over the last 10 years versus other people that are in the hunting industry,

it's not even close. I mean, obviously what you do is not even close. But just I remember thinking, wow, Cam's kind of an innovator. And it wasn't necessarily about lift run shoot. It was more like, wow, he's kind of attaching himself to this social media. Back before this thing was even people understood what Instagram could be, Facebook could be, obviously YouTube.

So I got to give you a lot of credit over those years for kind of stepping where other people weren't going. Yeah. Thank you. It was at the beginning. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. I mean, it caused me problems too.

I mean, because I was working for people who didn't see the value that I thought it was going to have. And I ended up having to walk away from the relationship. And it's like, that was hard because you work, for me, I worked so hard, so many years just to get to play some place where I had a platform. Because at that time, you had to have a magazine or you had to have a TV show or somebody. You got to have a megaphone. You got to have somebody to put your work out.

And, you know, so I didn't. want to screw that up, you know, and I was already just a pain in the ass to work with as a hunter because I grew up hunting on my own. And you know as well as anybody because we've hunted together. I don't like anybody telling me what to do. I don't like anybody slowing me down. And it's just like that's kind of what I was starting to feel like in this. You had to conform to the way the hunting industry was going and you're like, no, that's not how I hunt. It was hard. Yeah. It's this is working in the industry. is a love-hate relationship.

I mean, I love the people that I work with. I love reaching more people with the message. I hate the strings attached to it, like when you're working for a company or you're writing for a magazine or you're working, you know, doing TV. So, yeah, social media for me was like a godsend because it's like, finally, I'm in charge.

I can say what I want to say. I can write what I want to write. I can do what I want to do. Whatever the impetus or whatever the reason, or motivation was behind it, it ended up playing in your favor in a huge way over time. And I think that's the definition of innovation is seeing things that other people don't see and willing to stick with it. You know, because a lot of times innovation happens short and sweet and people like, oh, it didn't work. You know, like, oh, I tried Instagram. It didn't work. I'm like, no,

you got to actually do it for like 10 years and then come back and tell me it didn't work. Right. So I remember that because we used to have some conversations behind the scenes about you. Well, well, you know, he's trying to grow his own account. And he's not really posting about Under Armour. Yeah. You know, but I got to give you a lot of credit. It's changed kind of the face of the whole industry.

Well, I mean, that was because I did, you know, sometimes I felt like some of these companies signed me just so they could control me. So it's like, then they'd be like, well, he's not working for the competition. because we got them locked up. And then they didn't really have to use me. And I felt like that's sort of what Under Armour was doing. And sometimes because I would see some of these other athletes being promoted. And I'm like, I want that. I want what I do to be coveted.

I want that platform too. I'm working my ass off. I've been working my ass off for decades. And I want it. And it's like you guys as a business, you know, the Western market was tiny. you know, maybe 5% compared to 95% for the east and the southeast, white tail hunters. And so I had this small market.

Now I wanted all this love, I guess, or support, essentially. And yes, it was frustrating for me because I'm like, I'm busting my ass over here. Oh, yeah, I was the douchebag executive going, no, no, we're not doing that with him. No, he's fucking crazy. Nope, not going to do that. Yeah. But over time, I think you did a good job of explaining and continuing to, to partnership. And I will say because you're loyal, you stick through it with companies. And because

you're authentic, you're not really pulling any punches. So I think the companies that did, and you have a lot of great sponsors that have stuck with you for a long time. And I know you were with Under Armour. Now you're with Origin. And you were with them a long time. And I'm assuming you're going to be, you know, a lifer with origin. So because you're loyal, I think once companies figure that out, then it starts to open them up. But, you know, you know, you got executives, you got advertising guys, marketing guys, creative guys, and they're in and out. Yeah. And they work someplace for two years.

They go for another place for four years. And they're just trying to, you know, come up the corporate ladder. And it's a real problem in corporate America. And so it works against people like you sometimes. Sometimes it's like for me, I finally got to a place, you know, it's like this has been so many ups and downs. But it was eventually for a while, it's like, hey, I would hunt for free. and you're going to pay me 10 grand a year? What?

I would be doing this for nothing. So yeah, that's great. And then you kind of get to where like, wait a second, I have value to you. Now, before I wanted to be used for this, and then it's like, okay, now they're using me. And then it's like, well, wait, you're the one benefiting off all this. I'm getting a little bit of play,

but this company's making bank off me. And so then it got to this place where like, wait a second. how many how much did you with my name on it did you sell how much was that again this many units hmm that many units times this much and i got this percentage wait a second puts it in a different perspective wait a second so before i was like just happy to get scraps and then all of a sudden i was like i actually think i deserve a little bit or more a little bit more and that was so that's a whole different part of the journey where now of a sudden I'm looking at it as a business and I'm like, yes, I love I hunt because I love it, but I can't be stupid. I have a family that relies on

me to make good decisions. I was talking about this in my method and mindset class where it's really hard for certain people to self promote because it feels like you're letting your ego talk. But, you know, in this world, you've got to self promote. You've got to be okay talking about your skills, what you're good at, what you're great at and what value that brings people, obviously from a sponsorship standpoint. But I'm not comfortable with it. I'm just getting more and more comfortable with it. I'm getting a little bit better in front of the camera. I'd like to talk about some of the things I learned over the years at Under Armour. But yeah, man, self-promotion is not comfortable for a lot of people. But, you know, if you have a small business, if you're starting or if you've taken over your

family business, or even if you're working at a big corporation and you're trying to like make that next big move up the ladder, you've got to effing self-promote yourself in a way that's humble and authentically don't come off like that jerk. Right. But in this space, you really got to self-famil yourself. Yeah. You know, because who's going to chew your horn if you don't? I don't have an agent.

I don't have anybody. It's just me. And you, I mean, I'll mention it. We did the lift run shoot today. You see what I do. I mean, it's like, I bust my ass, right? I don't think anybody has a really good understanding unless they're with you for weeks and weeks at a time. I'm just saying that I work really hard.

And it's like when you, so when I work like I do, and I'm not saying anybody else doesn't work hard, but I just know what I put my body through. And then it's like this company is getting this much off of my work. I'm like, I'm feeling like it's a little bit, these scales aren't balanced. I'm the one busting my ass. Yeah, we're building this brand, but let's make this a little more even. I think hunters, fishermen, outdoorsmen in general and women, I think it's, It's $5.5 billion spent on hunting and fishing products a year. It's a year.

We go two years, that's $10 billion. We go three, that's $15. Right. This is a big business, man. Anybody that's listening to this, don't let anybody for you, these companies are making bank. Are they doing the right things? Are they investing in conservation?

Are they getting behind the right athletes? Are they making their products in the right places? you know you know corporate america is lined with a lot of really really rich executives what's change the fucking tune yeah let's make the real people get the real money you know that's that's that's how i i know that's some of the deals that i've you know maybe i'm thinking of not even hunting but just like some other deals that i have i'm more like i don't really need the money up front give me that royalty if i sell your if i sell you if i I sell the units.

I want a good cut. And it's like it was a pretty good, we just went and saw the new movie. I think it's called Air. And it's about the Michael Jordan story. And he was the first athlete that actually said, the first athlete anyway that the movie, how they wrote the movie was first athlete that said

he wanted a cut of the sales, you know. And he didn't just want, I think they're offering $250,000. He got a Porsche when he signed. But he also won a percentage of sales, first time, first athlete to do it. And now that's turned into for Jordan, the Air Jordan Brandon for Michael Jordan in particular. Still, I don't know how long he's been retired, probably 30 years, but he's making $480 million a year off of his problem. That same deal.

Yeah, that same deal. And I think. It's like a weird belief in himself. Yeah. But to your point is like, yeah, the executives were, they're always going to make their money. They're always going to get it. But how about the athlete, the one who's actually, you know, making it happen? Yeah, I think there's definitely now that college athletes can also sell their name and likeness,

I think that times are changing. Yeah. I think it's back on the American consumer to put their money in places they believe in. I think you just can't believe all the hype. You can't be over-marketed to you got to like really get behind brands and people that you believe in. And I think if that happens, then you're just like, you feel that partnership and you're just so, then you're even more loyal. All anybody wants to know is that they're valued, right? Yeah, I think consumers want, they want more information today.

They, you know, they want more information about where, what, how, who. And I think that's because they care more than they have in the past. I also think that they've been so marketed to over the last 20 years. They're like raw. Right. Like another effing marketing campaign selling me another product. So I think it's almost like they want more information and they want to go with the people they believe it. And then you look at some of the products out there that are doing well.

And they're like overnight successes because they believe in the people. Right. And that's where I think that authentic type spokesperson or spokesperson makes a big difference. You know, because it's like, yeah, I think it's because social media, there's so much information out there. And these companies, they put out, you know, they have their marketing campaigns, but also there's that story. Now, people want to know, okay, I want a little more of the story, which is kind of what

you mentioned, where's it made? And then the athletes, it's like, okay, pull the curtain back on the athlete. I want to know a little bit or more about this athlete now. And so I think the market has changed. And the athletes can benefit now more than ever. Well, anybody can come out here and pick the rock up, come up the mountain. you'll show him a piece of it. Hey, speaking of that, I saw Truitt made a comment, and he said,

there's no way old man Kip beat my time. I will, I'm going to fly to Utah. He's going to fight him. Fuck it. He said, old man, Kip. That is a fair statement. I'm an old man. My name is Kip.

He said, there's no way you beat his time. What do you have to say about that? I'll put a wager on it. Yeah. Small bat. What a great day. I mean, I can't. I had, you know, I'm always.

I still feel like I get credit for a few things because I didn't put the rock down. No, but you did like squat down like you're peeing like a girl a few times with the rock cradled in your. That was rest. We don't have to talk about that. Oh, but that's not. I didn't touch the ground. I was trying to have you. I was selling like, man, wouldn't it be nice to sit that rock down?

You can just stand up straight and stretch out. And I was trying to try to get that. rock to hit the ground. Tanner didn't say a word the whole time and then he throws something out three quarters of the way up and he goes we'll see how that plays out. Oh no he said bold move cotton we'll see how that plays out that was when you were like cradling it in between your knees but I was telling him my theory of not putting it down is good and he's like yeah I don't know but I mean today we're in the rain all day I mean it was just one of this classic uh I guess late spring Pacific Northwest.

Just pissing rain. Brutal. We got soaked a couple times. We got soaked on the mountain. We got soaked shooting bows. Yeah. But I can't, you know,

anytime I have a big day like this, I can't sleep. You know, it's like I just, I'm thinking about all the things we can do. I'm thinking about how it's going to go. I'm thinking about, let's make a good film.

I'm doing all this. I can't sleep. So I like woke up this morning going, oh my God, I didn't sleep at all. I just hope today's. And today couldn't have went better. And then what's the name of your cold bath?

Moravco. Marascoe, yeah, Marasco. Big difference than the ice tub. I know. That circulating water is a mammoth. I wanted you to get in there to see, because I've never done the trough with the ice like you do. So I wanted to know how it compared.

You say it's much colder. Yeah. The minute you get in it, you can tell there it's a big difference. He did a good job. I mean, after you got out, you couldn't really talk, though. Your mouth wasn't working. I was so cold. I was mumbling.

Yeah, we gave you some mud water and had you sit by the fire. And it was all good. And then we came in here and God, had a great lift. You're a fucking beast, dude. Trying to keep up with you. Steroids. Just like Truitt. Everybody says Truitt's on steroids.

I'm like, God, people are such a dipshit. So anybody who's jacked, who's bigger than me, must be steroids. Always steroids. Always steroids. Hey guys, you want to be as smart as famed neuroscientist, Andrew Huberman, PhD at Stanford? Well, sadly, that's probably not going to happen. But I did find something that can help, and that's HVMN, Ketone IQ. I actually down one right before reading this.

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Was that Wyoming with Roy? No, we went Caribou hunting. Oh, caribou. Yeah, 2001, 2002. Maybe 2004? Yeah, four. We went public in November of 2005, and it was before that. Okay.

Was that the win a hunt? Mm-hmm, with Cabellas. Yeah, and Gabrio one? Yeah. Win a hunt with Kipp and Cam. Yeah. We went up caribou hunting and uh that's when I had the arrow that bounced off caribou yeah and you looked over at me and you said are you shooting nerf yeah no suction cup

arrows I said no so we stocked in and uh this bowl was out there nice bowl we used I think some big boulders on the tundra got in about 35 yards that bull's quartering away and I think you hit a little low but that arrow went and like hit the back, back leg, but like back of the knee, and bounced off. And he looked over at us like a mosquito bot. Right. And I was like, are you, what is this bow? Is this suction cup arrows?

But you're shooting. It's a typical white tail setup. Light arrows, expandable broadheads. I changed it all that. You know, probably 25 pound draw, something like that. And then I got that one that died in the water and had to swim out into the water. Yeah. You had your shirt off just like you started this podcast.

How was our first hunt? I think we've been on some good ones. Mm-hmm. You know, you can't, the Roy one's tough, you know, when he passed away. But I think also the bull, you know, any, anytime you can get a bull elk with a bow with a buddy is a good one. Yeah, we've done that a few times. Mm-hmm. And then we did the Wyoming home where my old man came.

Yeah, the colonel. Cut his hand in the first hour of the trip. That was the one. Oh, no, don't say that. Nobody hunts up in there anymore. Oh, God, people back there are going to hate that. But anyway, so that was the one. I had killed a bull in New Mexico.

And Roy was going to meet me there and you. And I was a day late because I hit this bull. at the last night right at fading light I hit this bull went and got it the next morning and it died but I was supposed to be to Wyoming so I was late so I got there a day late and uh the cameraman who was with me in New Mexico New Mexico was you know compared to Wyoming was flat like golf course flat and this guy was struggling and I'm just like I said dude I said you're you're you're You are never going to make it in Wyoming. You're never going to make it.

I said, if you can't keep up with me here, we're bivouacking out for 10 days. How do you think you're going to keep up with me? He's like, I have to. It's my job. I'm like, okay. So anyway, we got to Wyoming a day late. And your dad saw Roy at the store, right? Getting Gatorades and peanut butter.

And probably, I don't even know. No, he bought like a loaf of bread. a jar of honey, a thing of peanut butter, and ketchup. And meanwhile, I have like freeze-dried meal, all my whisperlight stove, and he's just packing in, like... But Roy could pack, you know, 200 pounds. And so he packed up to this burn and had a camp there. Winn killed this bull.

And so he came out with a load and called me, and I was on my way, and he said, hey, I got a bull down. and so I told the cameraman, I said, we're going to go help him get that bull out. He killed a nice five-by-five. And he hadn't really hunted Wyoming, or I mean, hadn't hunted elk much. And so that was, you know,

he'd killed a few bulls when he lived here in Marcoa, but that'd been quite a while because he'd been up in Alaska for 20 years. So he killed this nice bull, nice five-by-five. We ended up going four miles in, helped him pack the last load out. Then he was going to take the meat into the butcher there in town. And I told the cameraman, I'm like, okay, well, we got that bull out. Now we've got to head up to meet Kip because you'd already been there a day.

And I said, I don't want him waking up the next morning without me at camp a whole other day. So I said, we got to get, it was dark when we got there by the time we got Roy's bull out. And it was dark, and I said, I don't want them waking up in the morning without us at camp. So he's like, okay. So up to get up to the, you know, to the saddle, it's a few miles, you know, pretty good climb. And we started at night and I said, I got to get up there. And, you know, he goes, okay, I'm coming. So he, whatever.

I mean, I didn't even know what happened. I went back. I said, are you coming? He's like, oh, I forgot my water pills. and I'm like, I got iodine pills. I got you. You're not going back to the car. We're about a mile up the trail.

And he says, no, I need to get my water pills. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to, I'll be up a camp. You come up, just be there sometime tomorrow. Anyway, so I go up to camp. Lay there, it's you, your dad, the colonel, and Brian Boring, filming you. Your dad wanted to be the cook. So next day, Roy gets up there and I'd went off hunting and you'd went off hunting.

And I said, hey, did you see the cameraman? And he's like, yeah, I saw him. I go, where is he? He goes, well, I was walking up the trail and I saw this guy hiding in the trees. And so, Roy, he goes, he actually scared me. He goes, I'm walking to the trail. And here's this guy hiding in the trees. And he goes, kind of startled me.

So I said, you know, what are you doing? And he's like, said he was filming me, but he had to go back to his car. And I said, oh, so what's he doing now? And Roy's like, you're not going to see him again. He's gone. So anyway, he went out, the cameraman left, me and Roy hunting together. You and Brian hunted together. And I got out from that hunt.

And we ran, you guys ran out of food. We left you some food. Yeah, we, I mean, we were, my God, that was, that was an awesome hunt. But that was me and Roy, you know, we love that kind of stuff. But, you had a Snickers bar. in your bag. I found a king-sized snickers I didn't know about.

In the bottom of your bag. They saved us. We were 100% out of food, thunderstorms, lightning striking, and I was just like sitting there feeling sorry for myself hungry. And, you know, feeling around in my bag just for something,

a peanut, who knows what, off a trail mix, found this king-sized snicker. And we were just jumping around. We were so excited. We actually had calories. I had to argue with my dad

for like 20 minutes. He's like, I'm going to put this rock here. Cam's going to know it was moving. moved and then he's going to see that there's a freeze-dried meal. I was like, they don't need any food, dad. I need the food.

He's like, we got to leave him something. Yeah. That was a good hunt. It was good, except I got out and Rocky Mountain Out Foundation had called me. And they said, you abandon the cameraman? Yeah. And I said, you abandoned the cameraman in Bear Country. And I'm like, what are you talking about?

He goes, he could have been killed. and I'm like, it's not grizzly country. I said, there's black bearer. He quit. He left. What are he talking about?

I abandoned him. He went to the car. They said, outdoor channel said you had one more chance. And if you, if you screw up again, you're never going to be on an outdoor channel. So that was like,

outdoor industry right there. There you go. Especially making TV. So, I mean, I don't know. Like I said, it's been a love hate.

Remember how shredded, boring's feet were he toughed that country's that country's hot oh and i had uh wait did i no i didn't have adam off it that wasn't no no no no different hunt cameraman man is death god you got a good one now with tanner yeah tanner does great i mean he had you know i can't really i mean he i can't fire him for being my son and he can't fire me for being his dad so we're kind of kind of stuck so we have to kind of make it work but he's definitely tough i was telling him i when i need some motivation i watch his old graduation video when they're just singing uh the ranger creed oh the ranger creed i'm like god those guys are beasts i know those guys are studs

beasts um yeah man it's been a long time yeah that one that one was special uh just because it was with roy and then we went and i think what would have been the next hunt deer Or no, Utah. Yeah, we started going to Utah, and then we started going to eastern Colorado. And that's when we had the guide had a heart attack, remember? Oh, my God. Yeah. So that was the same week that Roy died.

First day of that hunt, we're sitting there and we're in the kitchen. We're at breakfast. Yeah, we're having coffee in the kitchen. Old farmhouse, plains of eastern Colorado out in the middle of nowhere. Aaron's sitting in the living room. And he's like, Cam, Cameron. And I go in there and I'm like, what's up? And he's like, I feel like somebody's sitting on my chest.

And I'm like, I mean, he looked white. White is a ghost. White is a ghost. And I was just like, I knew what that meant. I said, can you get to the truck? So we got him to the truck. And I was just like flying into that. There's some nursing home in some little town.

And they kind of have a doctor there. And I was flying. And did you guys follow me? Yeah, we followed you. And then they tried. They couldn't get the helicopter in. So they had to drive. them to Colorado Springs.

Right. Because the cloud cover was so bad. Yeah. And he had multiple heart attacks. Yeah, he had to get three stints put in. And so that was the first day of the hunt, you know, flying in. He's having a heart attack. He's laying on the bed.

They got the blood pressure thing on him. And they're like, oh, your heart rate is, what, are you a marathon runner? And I'm like, he's not in that good. I mean, are you kidding me? That's the lowest heart rate I've ever seen. It was like 30. And, I mean, he's in good shape, but. I was asking him where the big bucks were.

Yeah. Yeah, there was in that country. Aaron Nilsson, yeah, shit. I didn't say his last name. But thank God he made it through that. He actually came back to camp after that, like towards the tail end of the hunt, didn't he? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And then that's when we heard bad news about Roy. Yeah, I mean, yeah. that one sucks um yeah just a terrible week but uh you know i hit that buck and then we got the call about roy and then the next morning shit we pounded that place it's walking through the sagebrush and oh man i i couldn't even you're trying to focus on finishing the task because you i hit a buck I hit a buck that we had to find. And yeah, you're just, your mind is thinking about something else.

Who found that buck? Who was that? We had about five of us out there. Yeah. And I hit this buck a little low, a little back, caught us liver. And a big white tail, like a 166 white tail. Gosh, I'm so. Is it Sean?

No, it was Sean. And he still, he still guides there with the Whitaker. brothers. I'm, I apologize, man. I'm drawing a blank on his name. Not Thai. No. No, it's going to come to me. But yeah, we found him and then my dad was there. You were there. But I mean,

that was hours and hours of gridden that place out looking for that buck. We covered some miles. I'll be honest, I was out of it. Crying the whole time. Yeah. We found him. Roy's buck. And he was stud. It's a nice deer. Yeah. That was

you know spot and stock white tail uh mark womack was there filming yep and uh yeah i mean it's it's uh you know all that is on film it was just like i think people can watch that one on youtube it's still out there yeah just i don't i don't want to watch it but i guess if somebody wanted to it was just like a fucking shitty day and shitty week but we closed it out and uh you know We got it done and stuff that buck in some rental car. I mean, that car was thrash, dude. Remember we're driving through the sagebrush and that? Almost got the thing off fire.

Fucking rental car. I don't even. We put the buck in the back. I think it was a white Chevy suburban. I think we're asking like, you know, it's like how much does this car cost? Because we're being charged for whatever this car is worth. There's some benefits when you work at a bigger company. And I was like, yeah, the Under Armourmer's got it.

They just cover it. I was like, I was thinking worst case, it's probably 30 grand. Yeah. I mean, are we going to pay for this? Because it driving through that sagebrush. It was demolished. Oh, my God, dude. That stuff was like thorns.

And we didn't give a fuck. And then we threw the back. No, Roy had fallen and died. He's like, who gives a fuck about this car? Yeah, we threw the buck in the back and. Man, that was, oh, man. That was a crazy, I don't know. That was good to be there with you.

you. Yeah. I'm not sure you've been a, yeah, it's always good to be there for people and they, you can't predict those moments. So if anybody's out there struggling, it's better to go, go, don't go alone. Yeah, you know, and it, and it took me, so this kind of brings me to, you know, obviously we've had some, a lot of deer hunts and elk hunts together and, um, just a years of friendship, but it took me years before I ever wanted to go back to Alaska. because that was what me and Roy did. And so then finally, you know, a year before last, you would talk to me into, let's get back up, let's chase some grizzly with our bows.

And, you know, finally made the decision. Had this film made for a while, but I didn't want to release it because I didn't really, you know, I have my own personal approach to bow hunting. And to me, bow hunting is, that's it. There is no other hunting. It's just bow hunting. And if I'm going out on a hunt

and I'm going to either kill the animal with my bow or it's not going to die, that's just the way it goes. And if I'm hunting dangerous game, same thing applies. I'm going to kill that animal or it's going to kill me. There is no other option.

I don't care about another option. I'm not looking for a safety net. I'm not looking for backup or anything like that. But on a grizzly hunt, like we did year before last, there's other people involved. Because there has to be, it's the law. You have to have a guide for hunting grizzly in Alaska.

And when other people are involved, they're faced with making choices too. It's not just your reality. You now have other people's realities involved in your hunt. So you had Kobe, you had Johnny Rodin, you had Brannlin Shockey, you had me, and you had you. So you got a crew. And everybody, you know, we're here to support each other.

But at the end of the day, when the shit hits the fan, people, we got to make decisions, right? Yeah. And we made a hell of a stock on a gorgeous bear. And, you know, shit got a little Western. Yeah. You know, I hit the bear a little bit to the left, kind of quartering to a little bit, a couple inches to the left. And, you know, the bear was hurt. We had good blood and got down in the brush.

and it got crazy. And I just was saying, let me, you know, at first we thought the bear was dead. We thought it was done. Yeah. I mean, Johnny said dead bear. Dead bear. So I'm going down through these alders and it was thick as hell.

And I get down in there and the grizzly lifted its head. And I said, let me finish it. Don't shoot. Don't shoot. That's all. I didn't want any guns involved in my hunt because, as I said, I'm a bow hunter. And that's it. and, you know,

Bear charged. I was, you know, whatever, 10 feet away. It was happening. It was happening. So it wasn't just me and my reactions and my reality. It was...

You got an error. You got. Yeah, I mean... You hit it. You hit it. Bear was coming hard. I hit in the chest. Kind of faltered.

Boom shot. I think Johnny may have missed. your brother hit the bear in the hip and spun it, which kind of got the bear off of. It was kind of on track right to me. Correct. In that kind of, you know, whatever. So bear died.

There was a gun involved in my bow hunt. And I was. So you had a hard time thinking about it. Is this something that you want to release out there? And you've thought about it for a while. I didn't want people thinking that, Bowhunt and Arrow isn't, well, isn't deadly enough to hunt grizzly because it is. Because I've killed Big Bear.

I've killed, I don't even know how many animals with no guns involved, merciful, quick deaths. And then this one that happened to be on film that was the return to Alaska for me, kind of in honor of Roy, we wanted an adventure that Roy would be proud of. And then to me, it got tainted with the gun. But maybe, because I didn't want to reflect. done bow hunting in a negative way because to me archery is the most merciful way to hunt

because many times animals don't know they've been shot and they you know lose blood pressure and die and it's when a gun goes off there's a loud report there's shock there's breaking bones there's torn up muscle there's you know overconfident hunters that take shots they probably shouldn't have with rifles sometimes sometimes but as i just didn't want people to look at my hunt and be like well, why don't you just use a gun? And so I had to, to me, I'm like, I didn't, I don't want bow hunting perceived, you know, like an inferior weapon. So I'm like, yeah, it's the only time this ever happened in 35 years of bow hunting,

but it's happened to be on this incredible hunt. And then you got to kind of reflect and think, well, this isn't, all my other bow hunts are, you know, not like this. This is one where other people were involved. And so maybe it wasn't how I envision the perfect hunt, but it's reality. It's what happened. And hunting is imperfect. Anyway, you look at it.

You know, when I don't care what you're hunting. Life is imperfect. I don't care if you're hunting, rifle, bow, it doesn't even matter. There's going to be times where it doesn't work out as you planned. And I think it's okay to be authentic. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I'm glad you're going to release the film.

I think it's a badass film. I think people are going to see it for what it is. and it's hardcore hunt. And, you know, it's authentic. It's what we did. It's what happened. It was captured on film. Yeah.

And, you know, I guess to that point, that probably has happened many times. A lot of hunters, bow hunters, who are more concerned about preserving, I guess, how they're, I'm more concerned about how bow hunting is reflected, not me personally. But people could edit that film and not even show the rifle shot. Oh, yeah. And it would just be the bow shot, the bear is dead. Great hunt. No harm, no foul.

Nobody knows anything. But, you know, to us, it's more about being authentic and just being honest about what happened. Here's what happened. It wasn't perfect. I'm not perfect. But there's no rifle hunter out there perfect either. You know, and hunting in general isn't perfect. And I think the keep hammering collective is this idea that you're going to just grind it to try to be as best as you can to get as close to perfect.

then you'll never reach it. And there's going to be other factors involved. But I need to eliminate the factors that I can control. And if you're out there in the mountain all day long, if you're lifting weights, or you're shooting your bow, or you're doing whatever in life. And I know a lot of people's situations are different. But you just got to control what you can control and get after it.

And that's what this is all about. And so I think people need to understand, because I know you really well. You put a lot of time and effort, probably the most time and effort into being ready all the time. And even you can make mistakes. And that's authentic and that's just going to happen. But you got to put the time in.

Yeah, I don't, you know, if I look back, you always look back and think, could I have done more? Shit. And I don't think I could have done any more. I was giving, I prepared with everything I could. on that hunt, I gave everything I had. Jocko said it the other day. He's like, hey, you learn a lot when you fail. I don't know if we could call this failure, but I do think that bear was going to expire.

I think we in life are trying to figure out timing. And is it a minute? Is it 10 minutes? Is it 30 minutes? Is it 30 seconds? But I think it was a great shot. I think that bear was going to expire. And it just happened the way.

happened, I don't know if we were 30 seconds away from a different ending. Right. It was a hell of a shot. There was a lot of blood. We made the best decision we thought. We gave it time. We followed the tracks. We did what we were supposed to do with hunters.

But bears have a will to live too. They do. And that's a wild place that makes very tough animals. You get an animal with that will to live. And I think grizzlies have just a little bit even extra because they're predators and so and that i went back the year after you and and i got a good a good bear and we ended up watching a bear down a moose calf in our spotting scope and the will to survive and feed themselves and their cubs is relentless and i've never seen anything like that in that hunt in that unit

that we're at is a conservation hunt they want five to eight bears taken out of there a year because they're hammering. The moose. Hammering. The moose. Yeah. That's what grizzlies do. It's like you can't just people say, well, let Mother Nature take her course and it'll work out. Bears don't care about quotas. They don't care about, oh, the moose population is struggling. Maybe we'll just go look for a caribou or a deer somewhere. No, they're just going to kill and kill and kill until there is nothing else to kill. They're machines. They're machines. It's what they do. You can't

blame a bear for being a bear. So, you know, conversely, we have to help manage those moose by taking out some grizzlies. That's the way it goes. And it's the experts, right? It's the state of Alaska. It's the wildlife biologists. It's the, you know, all of the rules and regulations they put on hunting and they study it and they manage it and they make changes when it's not right. And maybe next year they'll do away with those and say, hey, we think it's the right amount of numbers. We're going to not do this anymore. They change tags, all the the time. I think you have to let the experts manage it with science. And I think the U.S. is a standing head above the rest of the world when it comes to wildlife management.

The North America wildlife model is, you know, success. Success. I'm excited for people to watch it. It's going to be badass. It's real. I mean, besides me with all my extra pillows and it's as real as it gets. I mean, it was an epic hunt. You know, and I, and me being weird about bow hunting or about weapons, nonwithstanding, you know, I've just, I've been, I go on a lot of hunts that it's any weapon. And I can think of a number of them where there's another one I didn't make a great shot on a deer and totally legal to use a rifle. And it was, you know, it was with an outfitter and they were wanting to get out of there. It's the last hunt of the, of the fall.

And they're wanting to get out of there. and I'm sitting here stocked in on this buck and I'm waiting for it to stand up so I can shoot it again because I had wounded it. And, you know, they're like, do you want us to bring the rifle down? And I'm like, no. No, I'll do this.

I don't, it's just me. It's just me. Anyway, I did end up killing that buck. That was like three years ago, nice four by four. But I just can't, again, it's just either it dies by my arrow or it doesn't die. But in that case...

That's a great thing about this country, man. You get to pick the way you want to live it. So you pick the line, you're sticking to your line, and that's your line. Yeah. I mean, I think it's great. You know, if everybody's like, well, I don't do that or I do this, hey, everybody gets to live their life they choose. Yeah.

Everybody is, we all, we're just a bunch of decisions stacked on top of each other. Right. You can't cookie cutter them? No. It's just everybody's making... We're humans with our own tendencies and our own thought process. Just get a little bit better every day. Hopefully we try not to make the bad ones more than once.

Yeah. Another hunt that we were kind of talking about today, but we've hunted Santa Carlos. How many years now? It was six for me, five for you. I did one more when Steve invited me the first time. Yeah, Steve Johnson. Yeah.

special special place oh my god unbelievable but this bull right here um that bull no right there that one the big back end bull god with those split forth but we were you know that one came into the call 10 yards away or we had to get aggressive on him because remember he he we bumped we bumped we bumped no that's a different bowl so we we were chasing that bull up to hill and this bull came in. That's right. That's right. No, so I was trying to catch up with that other bull, and we had Randy with us and Randy and...

I wasn't a rental... Now I can't remember who else was there, but I know Randy was there. Oh, he had to go. Remember he had to go back to town? Yeah, that's right. Anyway, so we pushing this herd, trying to catch up with this bull

who is pushing his herd up. hill and this bull came in from the side and he came in finally came in on a string and came into about 10 yards spooked and I had you know his way I thought he's going to go parallel to us and I was going to right when he walked behind the trees I was going to draw back it's going to be perfect 20 yards pinwheel him well instead he turned and came right to us right to us 10 yards away saw something and stopped and staring and you're filming with my phone, I think, or your phone. Somebody's phone. And the bull spooked

and took off and stopped behind, like, I had a little window about 35 yards away. He did the moment, didn't have time to range or whatever. This is like less than three seconds. It was fast. Fast. He spooked and then stopped, and it all went down quick. Went down quick. And before I knew it, I had shot.

And I'm like, I thought I had a good line, about 35 yards. I held, I knew what my, I had a, um, two pins on the single post. And so I knew what my second one was, it was about 35 yards. So I held that one. And it felt pretty good. But then I was like, I was like, bad shot. Not good.

No. Shoulder. Shoulder. It was like, shoulder. You're like, what though? You're like, shoulder, no penetration. I'm like, bullshit. What are you talking about?

I was like, I don't know, man. He'd go, arrow was hanging out of his shoulder. when it ran off. And I was just like, any bull hunter knows. That's not a good sign. Oh, my God. And then a 400-inch bowl. He did the moment. Oh. No, you made the shot. I was wrong. It was about two inches in and just missed his shoulder and it was a good shot. Yeah. I mean, and I said, let me see your phone. So I went through each frame. And you can see that arrow disappear behind his shoulder, then back all the way out. It got kicked out by the other leg. Yeah. Got, I think it was the, it's, let's see, left back leg. So right, front shoulder or

leg was forward, went behind the shoulder blade, kind of quartering two. So it came out and I think the back leg coming forward, push arrow back out. Because it kind of went, it caught one long liver gutts. And what I saw was the yellow fletching coming back, coming back out. Yeah. So you, You saw in that, I mean, split seconds. That all happened in less than a second. So that arrow disappeared came back. You saw it hanging out and said what you said. Then we went back and looked and turns out that bull went, what, 150 yards maybe?

Not even. He went over that little bench, sat down. We found him. God. Monster. Crazy, huh? And what bull did you kill that year? that uh it was like a 370 nice frame nothing nothing to write home about yeah yeah but so you can say a 370

is nothing to write home about that's what kind of special place this is yeah i know it's a 370 is giant yeah it's a giant any anything with archery is a giant to me but yeah i mean it's all about where you're at san carlos is different it also costs different than other hunts and it is what it is but It's a special place and the bulls are enormous. There's a lot of pressure because of that. Because it's such a special hunt. To me, it was once in a lifetime. And we're the only people bow hunting it.

Yeah. That's another thing. They don't have, you know, that's another choose your weapon. Because some of these premium hunts, they're pretty much choose your weapon. We always, you know, as I said, I only bow hunt. We go there, you, we both only bow hunt. And they hadn't had a bow hunter up there since. I said 20 years.

I think the 90s. Because it's so much pressure, so expensive. The bulls are so big. Who wants to risk that other than if you're just a passionate die-in-the-wool bow hunter? So we're just like, you know, it's going to die by an arrow or nothing. And we've had some amazing success there. I mean. Giants.

Yeah, I mean, I love that Apache reservation and that. those magical mounds are for anybody that doesn't know it's like comes out of the desert and it just comes into this Shangri-La when it starts getting up into elevation and it totally changes and you be driving for 40 minutes in the desert that looks like there's not even a horny toad that lives in this area it just looks desolate and there's elk just thriving up into these mountains and it's not a place you would you would drive by a hundred times with your family on a trip somewhere in Arizona, you would never look at those mountains and go, I bet you there's monster bulls up there because it looks nasty and dry.

But once you get up there, it's like a magical place. And it is, I mean, the two most famous places to Elkhunt are the White Mountain Apache Reservation on one's other river, San Carlos on the other. Yeah. And they are. They kind of have a little competition going against each other. And as a competition, nobody loses. No. Because it's just like incredible bulls on both sides of the river.

And I mean, the people, I have a lot of respect for that land and the people just because it's elk hunting heaven and it means so much to me. And it's a tough life that the reservation, you know, it's good, brings in good income for the reservation. Yeah. The hunting does. Yeah. I mean, anybody that hasn't been on a reservation, you know, sometimes, you know, they need. the money, they need the support. And when they have wildlife and they can sell a good tag, I think it's win-win. Yeah. Yeah. And I know, you know, there's always the must-be-nice people

who's, who, of course, I would be jealous myself if anybody who could hunt. Yeah, it's expensive. Yeah, it is. And it's like, hey, get your ass to work. I worked four jobs when we started Under Armour. Yeah. So when people were like, oh, you know, how'd you do? I was like, I worked my fucking assholes. Yeah. Well, what do you mean? I was like, I had four jobs. I slept an hour and a half. I kept a log at my front door because I was deciding whether I wanted to buy my house. I said, well, why would I buy a house if I'm never here? So I'll keep a log at the front door in and out. And I spent like two and a half hours a day, including sleep. Really? At the house. And Kobe and I were like, yeah, we're not, we don't spend any time here. We're not buying this house. And, you know, if you want more in life, you need to do more. If you want something, you're going to have to give up something. Right.

It's not a plus plus. So just to put, I give credence to your story, so you say you would be at home for two and a half hours a day because you were working for jobs. So that sacrifice paid off. You were one of the original founders of Under Armour.

When Under Armour went public, how did that change your life? It didn't at first. it changed over time. I mean, you know, when you go from being a private company to a public company, you now can sell your shares on the open market. But as an executive, you're kind of locked up during these blackout periods so you don't, you know, sell with this term insider knowledge.

So you kind of have to like, you have a lot of money on paper because now you own some stock. And over time, that paper can be converted into cash because now you can sell it on the open market. So it changed my life, but I didn't change working. That was that was 2005. Weren't you rich? If some, if somebody would say yeah, it was really rich. Yeah. So it's 32 years old. Right. Like what? A lot of money. 50 million? Yeah, probably a little bit more than that. Oh, God. But, so, but I wanted to mention this because you're still one of the hardest working people I know. Yeah, I don't think money makes you interesting.

No. It makes you kind of in my book, if someone, if I ever met anybody, and they just said. What do I say about you? The t-shirt I'm going to sell? Yeah. And it's just all in fun because it's just like, as I just said, Kipp is the hardest. One of the hardest working people I know, if not the hardest. But I always just poke fun of them and say, yeah, you're fucking soft and rich.

Trying to be pouring hard. Yeah, trying to be. Everyone's being poor. hard. That's when you have a choice, but we were poor and hard for most of our lives. I didn't grow up with any money. I graduated college. I put myself through college. I got a scholarship to University of Maryland finally after playing at community college and then walking on at University of Maryland. Those things paid your dues. That paid my dues. And then I worked at Under Armour for 21 years. I didn't work there two years. I didn't work there five years.

It wasn't a tech stock. We ran up and sold. There wasn't a bunch of rich daddy's behind the scene. We just grinded it out. Yeah. And we got lucky, but we also worked really hard and you got to give a lot of credit to a lot of other people at Under Armour. I'm never going to say it was, you know, all me or all this or all that. It was a group of people that just wanted to crush it. Yeah.

But over time, over time it adds up. Well, so, yeah, soft and rich and you kill, still carried that fucking rock up the hill. So, I mean, nobody can doubt. I think people who follow you online, now you got this method and mindset, kind of business course. And I mean, you're still, you could easily just go away and fucking chill. But you're not. You're not only grinding yourself. You're helping to teach other people how to do it.

I saw a bunch of people out there promoting, like, how to, like, help people run businesses. And they don't have a fucking resume. Like, well, what business did you build? They're all academics. Right. You know, I'm like, no, we built a $5 billion business from $17,000. Every step of the way. You're sharing.

I'm sharing methods and mindsets that I learned over that 21 years. I'm applying it to my own beer brand big truck. I'm applying it to origin and jacofeel and sharing knowledge with those guys. and I was like, you know what? I think people could benefit from this. And, you know, it's a course. It's 12 weeks. It's pretty intensive.

I wrote a workbook. I do online classes. I'm serious about it because, you know, me, I don't want to do anything. Then people would be like, yeah, that thing I did with Kip, it was stupid. Like, I'm always worried about being judged. Right. So I wanted to put some real thinking into. I spent a year to develop the class.

And I've gotten some good feedback. We're only in week five, so it is still pretty new. But people are digging it. And there's a lot of people, I'm sure, that we're excited for me to come on the podcast because they definitely follow you. A lot of my followers came from you over the years. And I just wanted to do something that was like authentic. And I really thought about, are these things going to help people? Are you selling them bullshit so you can cash something in or is it going to change?

And I literally will put my class against anything in the world if you follow my method. you're going to fucking make things happen. If you don't do it, that's on your ass. Right. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's powerful because you don't have to do it. You don't, but you're worried about your reputation is everything. So people sign up, they're going to learn. But I don't, I'm not even worried about that because I've heard you talk to, I don't know how many people,

but on different podcasts. And obviously just personally, I've seen you. discuss people and all you are all you are ever is a hundred percent in you're authentic you're real and you just tell like it is and you're not trying to get out of conversations you're like you love to talk and love to share what you've learned and love to try to help people and give advice and it's like it's a it's a superpower really and i mean you're one of the best teachers i know in regard to business i like it because i'm trying to get to the end of case, which is let's grow and let's be better, I don't make it about the people.

Like, I'm not here to judge people. How are you doing? How are you not? What's going on? I'm just telling you, these are the things you need to do. Yeah. Let's do them. Let's not judge people if they are or aren't doing them. Let's find ways to get people on the right kind of path. Yeah. Take a little bit out of Jocco's book, you know, being on the path. And so there's, it's a six week pretty intensive class and then there's six weeks of a Q&A and then I'm going to launch a bunch of videos that people can launch or watch at their free time. I believe in it. I have a hard time following it myself. So I'm not going to sit here and tell people that are listening that I'm like spectacularly great at listening to my own goddamn advice. Sometimes I fail

like we all fail. But I've actually started to go back to my own methodology and be like, Kip, are you doing this? You're trying to tell people to do it. Are you doing it? And I'm like, just kind of checking myself lately. And I find it pretty interesting. Yeah. Getting back to some of the core basics. Well, that's everybody, you've heard a lot of people who love giving advice. Like people have given me advice. And I'm like, fucking clean up your own backyard. Why are you looking at my backyard? You know, so I mean, that's just human nature. And I've made a lot of bad mistakes. I also think that being at Under Armour for a long time wasn't good for me. I think my ego got big.

You're a corporate executive. You start believing your own shit. Oh, my God. It's a growth story. Oh, my God, this. And, you know, I don't think that's healthy. I think you need to wake up every day and fucking earn it. Yeah.

Like, what did you do? Like, what have you done for me lately? Right. Yeah. Hey, Kip, what did you do 18 years ago? Oh, I was a founder of Under Armour. Didn't you know? Who fucking cares?

Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. a conversation off by telling me their resume? Yeah. I don't, man. What you'd say is like what you said to me when I said, you need to hold for 100 and you said, I'm going to hold for 95. Suck my deed.

And then you pop the balloon. So, you know, my dad's a Vietnam vet and my parents got divorced and he left when we were, when I was about 12, 13. Yeah. And I think I've been trying to find that for a long time. Find what? fucking am I good enough oh right okay

dad left right am I good enough to have a dad I understand I will fucking prove to you and so along the way I have this like edge and people that know me well

they they some of them know where it's from I have no problem saying it today I love my dad he's a great man he did what he did it's all good I love him but it created me

yeah I wanted to fucking prove to people that I wasn't somebody's that could be left. Right. And God damn it, if it was sports, if it was business. But I wasn't the brightest guy. I mean, I was kind of a numb nut.

Like not smart. Like getting into trouble, doing stupid shit. But then you kind of. I mean, did you just work harder? Or what did you do? You know what? I think because you wanted to be validated and you wanted people to give you praise, you followed where the positive reinforcement was.

So like going to jail, hey, that's negative reinforcement. Getting an award because you did something in sports, hey, that's positive reinforcement. So I just learned really quickly, because I'm a pretty hardcore ADHD, follow the positive reinforcement. If you're getting more of that, follow that.

Right. If you're not, hey, why are you keep doing things that you're getting negative reinforcement on? And I think people need to look at their own lives and be like, hey, there's a lot of areas here where I'm getting signals. It's like a traffic light and I keep running red fucking lights. Like why? Maybe you should stop.

Right. Wait for it to turn fucking green. You know. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, because I feel like I'm in that same category, same thing. My dad left also. And it's like to me, I just was thinking about it as you were saying that.

And all to say, you know, money is a measurable. I like measurables. I like success, failure. Money is just an easy one. So I don't actually give a fuck about money. But you send out, I mean, you're in charge of my business for what this, you send out the, the P&L statement. Yeah. Last month.

And it's like made $87,000 in March. And I'm like, I don't give a fuck that is that much money, but I care that that was a win. Okay, that's a good measurable. It's a really good measurable. Yeah, it's a great. So it's just like, it's not money. It's just, I just want to win. I think it's good when you have those measurables. Yeah. I think people that avoid drawing a line in the sand, they're just not, they're just avoiding, their avoidance is massive in society. Right. When you put something up, oh, I'm going to run a marathon. Okay, win. Yeah. All right, I'm going to have a million dollars in my bank account. I'm going to have $50,000 in my bank account.

I'm going to take my kid fishing. I don't give a fuck what the measurable is. You can turn it into a metric. Yeah. And either you did it or you didn't. And then, you know, be smart enough not to stack 30 things on your plate. Yeah. Because then none of them are going to get done. I stack three.

Lift, run, shoot. That's it. We did all three. We did. Yeah. I do think people kind of chase shiny objects. Yeah. And, you know, you got to stay.

focused and you got to commit to whatever that thing is you commit to. Yeah. I think that's keep hammering 101, baby. Definitely. I mean, it's, you know, I don't have all the answers either. But I love, I, there's two things that I thought of in this discussion already. One of them was years ago, you told me, Cam, you can't keep doing, you can't keep putting your body through this and make money for your whole life.

You need a product to sell. So you made, you, you had a design. designer that you knew designed me six shirts. And you're like, here's these designs, put these on T-shirts and sell them. Because that's just, you're making money, you don't have to do anything. Yeah. And because you can't do this forever. And so that was like, that was a lesson that you taught me 20 years ago.

And so now we're still just, you know, on this merchandising thing and still trying to do it. But I did learn that I was so used to like, oh, dig this trench. I'll give you $10. Pick this flat of strawberries. I'll give you $1.50 per flat. Pick these beans, deliver these papers. I was just like getting paid

on doing these tasks. So you said, you need to make money without doing a task. Yeah. The trick is to set it up. Right. And let it run.

Right. And so that's, I mean, that was a huge thing I learned from you decades ago. And I think that's a lesson. Many people can learn how can you make money

without having to break your back? Yeah, and can you put some insight into thought into it at the beginning to set it up the right way so it can go and go and go? I give it the analogy of like if you take a toy sailboat and you push it off the dock at the local pond, that first push of the sailboat. Yeah, get going. It's going to go that direction. Yeah. If it's a shitty push, it kind of curves around and comes back to the dock and you look like a dumbass. Like, oh, your sailboat just came back to the dock.

But if it's a good push, that thing might go all the way across the goddamn pond. And you only touched it once. Right. So get it right. Make it a good push. Make it a good push. Do the things you need to do to make sure that first push off the dock has the most momentum. And I think people underinvest at the beginning part of businesses.

And I think you need to over invest in the beginning of it. Well, that's what we did with this even, because you remember the first month, I was like fucking pissed because I'm like I'm busting my ass for this and I'm you know I'm going in the hole. I'm going in the fucking hole. I'm what did I say? You saw how hard today was. It's not easy. Right.

So it's like I keep doing this and I'm like, holy shit. What's what's going on? And then I want results. You know, I want those measurable. But anyway, yeah. You said, I think you said, you know, starting off with any business. This is way it goes. you get kind of dialed in.

You get things streamlined. You get things tuned up. And we'll see where we are in six months. I think the product's amazing. I love the meth, the mindset and the method that you preach. And these outliers that you're bringing in, I mean, the people you're bringing into this, it's just freaking cool people.

Oh, I know. And that, you know, like it was shining a spotlight on these intro. very successful in their own way all of them different but they all have like a lot of commonalities too when you start peeling back some work ethic some like they work their ass off innovators risk takers believe in themselves believe in themselves a little bit of self-promotion even though that can be a odd thing yeah you see a lot of commonalities they're just all going about it in a really different way yeah most of them are just they have this whether it's quiet or loud, but this belief in themselves.

Because if you don't believe in yourself, as the cliche goes, how could anybody else believe in you? Right? So they believe in themselves, whether they say it or not. You know, Courtney kind of undersells herself, but I know she believes in her heart what she can do. Yeah, she wants to find new limits. Humbolded demeanor.

Some people, very loud, it's great. They believe in themselves, and they're going to shout from the rooftop. But the point is, it's like, they're working their ass off to earn this belief in themselves. And then they're just putting it out there. And what I've learned is from these outliers and you included is like, you surround yourself with people like that. You can't help a fucking win. You can't help but win.

There's not a lot of people in my circle. I've learned from all these people. You know, I make it seem like, you know, they're coming on here. and I've been needing cough for a fucking hour anyway. And it's like kind of selfishly it's so I can spend time around winners and help myself. You know, I love being around people who are at the top of their game. High quality relationships matter. It was just a topic we talked about in my class.

Really? I literally wanted to stop. It wasn't about business. It was literally just what I believe is a mindset that you have to have in life is high quality relationships matter. You need to look at every single relationship with a critical eye because the one that drags you down is the one that's holding you down. Yeah. And like you're playing down to other people's level. I don't like doing that. If someone is not maybe at your level, I'd like to try to help them get up, not come down to where they're at.

Right. Like what, so someone wants to like drink, hang out party, they want to do this, they want to do that, or they don't want to lift or they, I don't know, maybe they're struggling in some other part of their life. What do you want to go down to that level and spend time in their misery and then convince them to go up the ladder? No, you stay high and help them go up. Yeah. Don't come down. And I find people are playing down to these relationships they have. It could be kids.

It could be parents. It could be business partners. and you just high-quality relationships matter. So all these people you're surrounding yourself, you're kind of doing that in like this really condensed way with all these outliers, and you're getting little pieces of it. High-quality relationships matter.

The more you touch, it's like criminal justice, 454 at University of Maryland, Dr. Mariello, when two objects touch each other, they always transfer something. And so like when you go to doing a crime investigation, and you look at tool marks on a door, whatever was used, there's something left from that. Right.

When two objects touch, they always leave something. Yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense. And that's, you know, I sit here and I talk to these outliers, but I think the people listening in or watching in, they're touching that in their own, you know, in some way. They're going to pick up something from that. Of course I am because I'm like three feet away,

but everybody listening in, if they have that mindset, They're going to gain something from that also. These podcasts are amazing like that. I mean, you might be on a run. You might be driving two hours to go to work. Like, yeah, you could listen to Rand Rand, or you could pop on a podcast, listen to you, listen to Jocko, listen to Huberman. I mean, you get some serious knowledge.

Definitely. If you want to better yourself in life, podcasts are a hell of a way to get a jump on it. The trick that I find that most people don't is they don't know how to help. apply what they heard. Right. So what do you do? You got to have a good, yeah, what's your advice there?

Take risk. Change your structure, change your behavior, change your surroundings. You're going to have to change something. In order to gain something, you must stop something. So people don't like change.

Right. And so I think when you hear these podcasts, they're like, oh, well, cool, great. I'm going to listen. to another podcast. Okay, well, you just listen to a really fucking good one. What have you applied?

What did you make changes? I'm almost the other way. I'm like, I'll fucking change every second. And people are like, dude, slow down. You didn't even stick with this two seconds. Right, right. I'm like, no, I already heard there's something better. So I can go a little overboard on change because I grew up with a lot of change.

It doesn't bother me as much. I think that that taking risk in change. change is an important part of like asking yourself are you taking enough risk and are you willing to change well you know we've talked about you mentioned huberman and i think that's one of the it sounds so simple but the ice baths to start your day is like so eat it's hard but it's easy because it's like you said you're willing to change getting this fucking cold water it's only two four minutes and but it proves to yourself that i said you're willing to change that i said you're willing to change getting this fucking cold water it's only two to I said I was going to do something.

I said I was going to change. Here I did it. And then it's like it's really easy to look at other things and say, I did that and that was miserable. I can do this too. So I heard once that Gagins did Everest on the Versa climber. And I'm a big fan of the Versa climber. So I have one in my home gym. Okay.

So I was like, I can do the, I couldn't. I tried. But I did 10,000 a couple times. That's pretty good. Yeah. So I felt good about myself. 10,000 feet climb. Yeah.

On the Versa climber without getting off. And the only way I could do it is I had to break it down into 10 feet. Just do 10 more feet. Right. Just do 10 more feet. Right. So I think sometimes people need to break these things down into small little increments, like that self-belief you were talking about earlier that all these guests kind of have.

Right. Well, how do you get that? If you don't have it, maybe you're a little timid and you're not good at self-promoting. Well, how do you build self-belief? The ice bath is the single, easiest thing, two and a half minutes a day, you literally can do it for weeks on the end and your self-belief will change. Right. Because it's miserable and you did it anyway. Yeah. You literally found a way to hack self-belief. Right. You know, and I think that's a good point because I've heard

people struggle, they're struggling with drugs or alcohol and they'll reach out to me even though I'm just a bow hunter, but because they follow me and they follow the journey, they want advice. And so what I'll say is one day at a time. You know, stay sober for one day and then deal with tomorrow, tomorrow. But one day can seem daunting. One day is a million different decisions. So to your point of you get in an ice bath for even if it's 30 seconds, that's 30 seconds, but that's a big decision because it sucks. But if you can do it, then you're like, it gives you confidence like, okay, okay, maybe I can now.

maybe if I don't drink, you know, I'm not going to drink until noon, you know, if somebody's really, really struggling because they did the ice bath in the morning, noon. Nobody drinks before noon anyway, really, so that's right. Then you get to noon, you're like, okay, I'm not going to drink with dinner. And then you're until six. And then you're like, okay, I'm not going to have my after dinner drink, you know? And then it's like, then you made it through the day. But it's that increments that you talked about. And maybe an ice bath is the first win of the day. And I know Rogan talks about this. I know I did it today.

General McRaven talked about making your bed in the morning. Right. So it's just like the very first thing. Can you get a win right out of bed? First thing. And that just sets you on that path. I was pretty nervous about coming out here because I know you're going to put me through the ringer. So I was training pretty hard.

You know, I'm getting up at 4 a.m. And I was getting in the ice bath. And it is not peachy keene. No. If you're getting in the ice bath and it's not even light out. Right. It's miserable. And I was feeling amazing about myself and about me coming to here.

You know, like, you know what? I'm not as in shape as in cam, but I feel good. I'm going to show up. It was like a self-belief. Am I you, no. Can I run like you know? Can I lift like you know? It doesn't matter.

But I had like, I'm like a, hey, I built like a little bit of like kind of good momentum in a short period of time, I was doing ice bath, but I said they're not enough. I'm now going to do them at 4 a.m. And so that little change from 7 a.m. to 4 a.m. was even a bigger, like, momentum boost. So I know people are listening.

Everybody laughs about like all these people, including me posting on Instagram with their fucking ice baths. And people like, you can do it, but stop showing us about it. I hear you. We hear you. Maybe I'll stop.

Maybe I won't. I really don't give a fuck what you think about. me so I'll probably keep posting just to piss you off but try it yeah um get your first win of the day yeah all I know is uh you know we do live on opposite coast but you do push me because I see what you're doing you see what I'm doing it's really easy to be like God especially knowing we're gonna hunt together you know every year and I see you know with your fucking small waist and huge arms I'm like God I got to fucking get on my bench again get that bench in and carry that rock.

You just beat me on the push-up challenge. So, smoke to me. I will say one of the best things that I've learned from you when it comes to bow hunting, this is bow hunting specific for all those bow hunters out there, which I know a lot of people listen, is the distance thing. I mean, I was pretty like, hey, I'm shooting my bow. I shoot a lot, but I wasn't shooting far enough. And when I started shooting 100 yards, I started killing a lot of shit.

Yeah. Well, you've always killed. They might have taken a few arrows sometimes, but you have killed, I mean, you've killed some amazing animals, dude. Kobe always says, if you want to have fun, follow Kip into the woods, because something's going to happen.

Yeah, I mean, I've always been like that. You have come back with the best stories. It's like some, it's always going to be some crazy story. Why is it that? Kobe, my brother, who's a former Marine and works at Big Truck and worked at Under Armour,

he says he gives me shit all the time, but he says it in a good, way. I love Kobe, by the way. The quiet assassin. He's a beast. He's a beast with his, his forever beard. Yeah. He just says, like, he's like, I don't know what it is. He's like, man, when you go into the woods, he's like something fucked up's going to happen. He's like, if you want to film a TV show, just get a camera with Kip. Oh, I know. It is, it's entertaining. But that's hunting. I mean, it's hunting. And you, you immerse yourself in it. And you're all in. You're not just out there just kind of blending in.

I mean, yeah, hunting is blending in. But you're aggressive. You're trying to make things happen. I think give a lot of credit to, I think there's some recent research come out about attention deficit disorder. And for many, many years, it's been labeled kind of this negative thing. My son, a writer has it. And, you know, we try to help him through school.

And it's been labeled over the years as like, hey, you know, people with this, they're kind of like not as good and they need special classes and this. It's a fucking positive. It gives you a lot of things that other people don't have. Right. When I like something, I focus deep on it. Right. When I don't like something, I can't look at it for two effing seconds because it doesn't, I cannot pay attention.

Did you have to take, did they put you on medication for it? No, I've never been diagnosed until I was older. I have now. But yeah. So, no, never medicated. Because I think the medication can fuck up people. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of it.

We use a tiny bit for my son, but it's really, really small, small dosage. What is that again? There's all kinds of different ones. He's on one called Focolin, and it's a really small dose. But I think for years it's been late. It does, but it's a short period just for school just to get them through it. I mean, I was a train wreck in school, throwing chairs, yelling at teachers, fighting, never doing homework.

The dog ate my homework was standard. I had 104 absences my ninth grade class. Wow. I was smoking weed and surfing in Hawaii, anything to avoid school. Right. But for hunting, man, I like all of that stimulus out hunting. I love it.

Yeah. I absolutely like it's, I need it. I mean, you've killed, you've had a lot of success with the bow. And a couple good ones with the rifle. I mean, I remember like a two, is it 42 buck? 245, yeah. Just a giant buck. That was a good pick on the back of the tailgate with me and you.

I know. I know. I mean, we look so happy. Yeah. And we should. I mean, I was happy for you because you killed a 245 inch buck. It's just ridiculous. But, you know, you were the first one. I mean, I'll just say it.

You got me on to pretty much the best El Cunning in Utah, you got me on there. The best elk hunting in the world, San Carlos, you got me on there. I mean, I just want to hunt with you. I should be. I know if I can't,

I'm not going to spend time with you if I can't figure out an elk hunt. Right, no, I mean, it's not, it's not vacations. Yeah, it's not vacations. Hey, Kip, let's go to Hawaii. No.

I do, I forgot one story I want to tell about your dad. You know, we were deer hunting and he said, he wanted to go with me one day. and we're switching gears, but we're talking about hunting, so fuck it.

And we're talking about dads. It's your podcast. It's my podcast. I want to tell it. And I was stalking this buck, and it was like this big mule deer. We had been trying to kill this deer. I think I saw it on trail camera.

It was like a, do you remember that buck? It's like a big five by four. You hunted multiple, multiple days. Yeah, I was trying to kill this deer for a week, I think,

and I ended up killing that white tail, the one that I hit. But, your dad wanted to go and so we're stalking this buck crawling across this stubble I don't know what it was it had already been harvested but the bucks were out there and he had some doze

and I look back and your dad's crawling way back there and I just kind of like look back and I gave my hand like you know stay down because kind of how the hill was kind of rolling over and kind of crawling up getting within sort of close to not maybe like a hundred yards still but I look back again I can see it

and I just one more time just went like make sure we're staying down. That was the last time I saw him. He was just like, I had, that buck blew up, the deer took off. I could not find your dad. I'm like, where, I mean, this is a wide open field. Where did he go? It was like the colonel definitely took, you know, staying down.

I don't know. I thought he had like a little shovel, dug a trench. I didn't know what happened, but he was gone. And it's like, man, he got down. Trust me. He's told the story more than you. Really? Yeah.

I hunted with Cam one time. He told me to get down and I got down. Oh my God. He reminds me. And that was brutal too because those burrs. Yeah. Oh, my God. You'd shred.

You'd ruin your hunting clothes. And how old was he at that time? Close to 70, right? Yeah, 71, 72. God. Just a tough. He reminds me of if the colonel in Rambo first blood. What was his?

What was his name, Tanner? Do you know? Yes, you do. He's told me, I've asked him questions before, and he said he knew, but he didn't want to say because he doesn't want to be on the show. But it was a Colonel. Decker, is it that what it is? God, I can't remember.

Someone's going to give us shit for us. I know. We should know that. Colonel. Someone post about it. Anyway. Troutman. Who?

Colonel Troutman. Troutman. Troutman. Your dad reminds me. reminds me of Colonel Troutman. I mean, I don't know why. I don't know if I've just turned him into that or not. Have you, yeah, well, that's good.

Have you seen the movie The Great Santini? No. All right. Well, there's a good one for some older people if they want to go watch it. But yeah, it's like living with my dad. You know, he's a Marine. Yeah. You grow up with a Marine dad.

You're going to get a little bit of a Marine attitude. I think he made us stand in line and had a steak knife in front of our face, asking us who opened the LLBin package for Christmas early. Yeah. And we had to stand there for like 30 minutes as he marched back and forth with a shitty steak knife. That sounds toxic. That sounds toxic. I think he needs to be more loving and supportive. How many hugs did he give you?

Not a lot, but it's all good. Yeah, I know. I mean, I got a few headlocks. I don't know about hugs. Yeah. I mean, thank God. You know, really thank God for our hard childhoods, really, because it shapes you. It does.

So you now have kids. and I'm on this fine balance of like support them and grind them. And it's hard. It is. I struggle with it. I'm trying to do both. I think I'm doing an okay job. I know I need to get better at it.

But I know everybody out there with kids is like, where's the line? I can probably say the line is further towards grinding than you think it is. Because resilience is important. I think I went too far on the grinding with my kids. So it's like probably back the other way for me. Well, you are Kim, so. Yeah.

I mean, but man, I got there, all three of them are, are amazing and tough and better, better than me at pretty much everything. So I don't know if, I mean, it feels like I fucked up, but luckily their mom was involved. So that probably helped. But yeah, it's like, you know, being a parent is fucking hard, dude. It is hard. You want your kids, especially boys, you want them to be capable, tough. I don't know, you want them to be prepared. But you also respectful.

Yeah, but, you know, I always thought that, no, life is hard. Life is competition. So if you're not going to win, that means you're getting beat. I mean, you got to prepare them for competition is how I always looked at it. And like, I think I went too much sometimes, but man, it's hard known how much is too much. Yeah, and then there's this thing like they get to make some decisions along the way. I wasn't a fucking decision I was allowed to make. No.

Hey, hey, dad, I think I'm going to skip soccer practice today. Well, now you can decide if you want to be a boy or girl. They're like, oh, that's up to the kid. Yeah, I think that the decisions that my dad gave us were like, do you want broccoli or beans? Yeah. That was it. No, and I know. I couldn't.

If it was creamy green beans, I would just like they sit in my mouth and be like, and then it's like I got to just like get some milk I can't remember if it was my brother or my sister I have there's nothing worse than creamy green beans you remember that remember lima beans yeah those big ugly lima beans my I think my dad stuffed like 20 in Kobe's mouth and made him eat them it would pretty much be chowdabees today yeah I'd take that over creamy green beans

but anyway you're talking about your brother and your sister I think No, they just, we went through some hard times. You know, just typical stuff. Yeah. Typical stuff that you don't see as much today. Right. But I know there's pockets of it out there, you know. People are living some tough lives.

I'm not going to, I'm not going to say we're all soft, but. No, I mean, there are people that are struggling. But I think society is making a lot of weak fucking kids right now. I mean. It's the next generation. Yeah. And that's scary. But it goes to the same say, you know,

Every generation is always Good times make weak men Yeah Hard times Hard times make whatever whatever So anyway just it happens I did see a good one that I thought maybe hey like Kip Stay balanced approach

Which was Every generation Has talked about how soft The new generation is Probably yeah So like hey you're back in the 1900s And then this new group comes along they're saying how soft they are.

Yeah. When the people that, you know, participated in World War II, they're talking about how soft. Yeah. The baby boomer. I mean, like, every generation seems to shit on the other one.

I thought it was mostly like the previous generation's music sucked, you know, and our music is the best. But yeah, I think it is hard. You know, it's like,

oh, yeah, well, when I was a kid, you know, everybody's got these stories about when they were a kid how much harder it was. So, yeah,

I think that's just human nature a little bit. It'll be interesting to see what our kids say. Yeah, I don't know. My kids are younger, so they are. I got a little bit more time to grind. No, but you're doing a good job. I mean, you know, I know you...

I'm having fun with Big Truck so they can see... Because Under Armour was a corporation, so now at Big Truck, we have a farm, we grow our own products. We use those products in the beer. They're going to learn how to brew beer, whether they like it or not. They're going to learn how to run the canning line, like it or not. They're going to work in stores. They're going to work in the tap room. So to me, actually, people are like, oh, you know, you're trying to build a, you know, a beer brand.

I'm like, no, actually, I'm building a little test center for my kids to work at. Right. Because I didn't want them to be working, you know, like. It's a trade school. Yeah, it is. It's a trade school. Yeah. I mean, I think it's important, too, that as parents that were like showing our kids, what's possible with hard work.

You know, if nothing else, it's just like, you know, that's, you know, with my kids. My kids, that's all I wanted to do is like, okay, I'm going to work my ass off and here's what can happen. And you can learn from it or not. But I'm just going to, and I think a lot of guys raise their kids are like, they know they're making, they know their fuckups and they expect their kid to be something different. It's a tough one. Yeah. You need to model the behavior you expect your kids to have. I'm not perfect.

I've made some really shitty choices in life. but when it comes to, you know, like putting myself in front of my kids, you're just never going to see it. They're never going to see me drunk. They're never going to see me impaired. They're never going to see that version. I know there's that version. I've been there before my life.

I'm not saying I'm perfect. Biggest fuck up ever, too. But I will never let my kids see me like that. That is an absolute fucking loss in my book. And you know, it's funny. My kids talk about other parents. And you can say whatever you want. You can say words are so easy

Words are fucking cheap Action speak So yeah You say don't drink You show up stagging around Looking like a dumb fuck What do you think is gonna have more impact Being an ass at the local soccer game

Because your sippy cup's got more than sippy in it Right My son I give my kids credit They've said it a few times They're like yeah that dad seems like he's drunk And my kids are pretty young Yeah I'm like I don't know what he is

But we don't act like that Right I don't know what he is. It's not important to us. This is what we do. I'm sure they're going to be successful. I mean, just because I know you as a man and yes, nobody's perfect. Everybody makes mistakes.

I make mistakes you have. But, you know, we know how important being a strong male role model is to our kids. Being a, hey, it's not always a loving dad. Sometimes it's a tough dad. You got to hold him accountable. and I think you are and I know I know they're going to be good kids. If there's people out there listening and you've made mistakes, you're not defined by your mistakes.

No. Fuck it. Move on. I know. Chalk it up. Definitely. Chalk it up. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I feel like we could talk forever, not only about business, but kind of lessons we've learned. And a lot of it is from the mistakes, you know. Tons of it's from the mistakes. I mean, that's really the only way you learn and you get better. And then when you're my age and your age, 55 and 50, fuck, you better have learned something. So all we're trying to do is pass that on to the listeners, to our kids, to whoever we come in contact with.

And I'm sensitive about it too, because we've all made those mistakes. And so when you come on a podcast, you're talking about this and the other. You talk about, you know, like, hey, like you got to do this. You got to be better at this. don't, I've done some ugly shit. You know? But I think I learned

somehow to like compartmentalize that and not be defined by it. Just move on. What do you think has I think the mistakes I've made mostly have been maybe ego related. What do you think?

What is? It's a bad, it's a, a bastard child, the ego, because your ego is what drives you, and it also is what fucking sticks a dagger in you. I think there's a title of a book, Ryan Holiday, ego is enemy, right? Yeah, I mean, I think that any time. So how do you manage that?

I've looked back and I'm just like, that was fucking me, just my ego. And it's like, man, I don't know, being cognizant of that and being able to reflect and learn, that's hard to do. But I'm trying. I've talked about it recently, you know, with some of the businesses I've been involved in, definitely with Pete, him and Pete and I have a great relationship. We talk, owner of origin. We're talking a lot.

We multiple times a day. And he agrees, I agree, we have this thing, like people without self-awareness are dangerous. And if you become that person with a lack of self-awareness, you become dangerous. Right. to yourself and to others. So if you're doing something outside of your capability, if you're pretending to be someone, you're not, if you're unable to see how your actions affect other people,

and if you're just the list of things of someone who's not self-aware, and I'll go back to high-quality relationships matter, you can look around in your life and you can look at people and go, yeah, that person's dangerous because they have low self-awareness. So I have to admit who I am, I just got to call the ball on some things that I know I need to improve. I struggle with it every day. Like I'm on meetings with Pete and the team in origin,

and I probably say a few things I shouldn't or push too hard. And I circle back with people, hey, sorry, I shouldn't have said it that way. Like, I'll try it next time better. Like, yes, I fucking ego. And it's that, but I have a self-awareness that I'm doing it. Right. To me that if you have self-awareness,

then you have to have compassion to circle back and to just call the ball on yourself. Yeah. Like, hey, that wasn't cool. I shouldn't have done that. I'm aware of it. I'm trying to work on it. And move on.

Don't be defined by your mistakes. But when people don't have self-awareness, dude, they terrify me. Right. I don't like that. And I find it dangerous. Just knowing that you explain that, it'd be easy for me to respect somebody who just said what you said. You know, maybe you said, maybe you delivered it a little harshly, but you come back and say,

you know what? I should have said it this way. I'm going to respect that person. You know, because it's like they're thinking. They're like the worst, I hate being around people who know everything. You know, the know-it-all, you can tell them anything and that, yeah, they knew that or they had a better story about it. But like you with that awareness and coming back and saying, you know what, I realized that came out wrong, I should have said it like this. I'm going to respect that guy.

And I'll probably, I'll probably be the first to admit for many years. I was, you know, I could be a little bit of a know-it-all. I didn't want to be wrong. I didn't want people to be smarter than me because I had my whole life where people were saying I'm smarter than KIP for all these variety of reasons. Yeah. So I actually went overboard a little bit where I wouldn't want to lose an argument or I had to be right or I wanted to prove a point or this and the other.

And I think I had a low self-awareness. I had one of these like 360 feedbacks at Under Armour one time where you get a bunch of other employees, peers, people that work with me and form. me and they give you feedback anonymously about your behavior. Oh boy. Whole fucking train wreck, dude. I thought I was the shit. Oh, I'm this, I'm that.

I got my knees cut out. Yeah. And I remember it like it was yesterday. And Edith Matthews, who was an absolute saint, worked for me for many, many years. She was in our sourcing and product development. I thought she loved me. And she did. But she let me have it.

it. Really? And she was an older woman and kind of had been around the block a little bit and I was a young gun. Right. And she didn't, she thought I was disrespectful and not respectful enough in the way I was shooting people and trying to running people over. And man, I remember it. It was 20 years ago almost. You remember what she said. Yeah. Yeah. It's so. It made an impact on you, right? But back to the point on we learned from our failures. Yeah. I mean, but also to get, I need to give you credit there because a lot of guys would have said, oh fuck, she's, what does she know? You know, I'm running this shit. I don't know what she was. Yeah, she wasn't, I mean, she was great, but she wasn't running the show. Right. Yeah. So people would write that off and saying, well, you don't know the pressure I'm under. You don't know the decisions I have

to make. So that's why you say that because you don't, you don't know what I have to deal with. Where in turn, you took her advice and like, wow. And, you know, you took it for what it was and tried to grow from it. That's not, a lot of people don't do that, especially successful CEOs. No, you get, you get a little bit of blinders on. Hmm. You, you know, classic. You smell your own farts. You think they don't stink. Yeah. Do you smile your own farts? I don't smell your own farts. I don't smell. I don't know. Somebody today in the truck, I said, did you shoot your pants? No. Tanner, do you shoot your pants? No. Fuck it. Who shit their pants? because somebody did.

I said it was this, the town we were in. He said it was spring tucky. Well, it's fucking good, man. God, dude. I mean, I can sit here and talk all night.

You have an early flight in the morning. I've monopolized your whole day, puts you through misery in the rain. You kicked ass. You're such a badass. You're one of my best friends. I'm so thankful that you're in my life. Dude, I can't, I can't.

I mean, there's nothing, no words I can say. say how much of an impact you've had on me personally. And I just want you to know that I love you. I respect you. I owe you a lot for my success.

And thank you. I had a girlfriend that said the same thing to one long, long time ago. And she said. And she said, dido. And I was like, oh, fuck, this is not the same? It's not the, you can just say diddo to something heartfelt. God. So, Cam, I just

want to say like 100% diddo yeah yeah or cool cool yeah that's that's great no but how I end up these shows is we got you a brand new kick ass I say I give these to outliers and you are

the original outlier and so there's your brand new Hoyt VTM 34 that you set the record with today and yeah you got to call Wayne and pay for that But here's my credit card. I'm giving it to you with your own money.

So you shot it awesome today. It's an absolute privilege, dude. I was a little nervous coming out here. Oh, God, you kicked ass. No, nervous just because I want to show up for you, man. It's important to me. Oh, I mean, you're, you're, dude, you've always showed up. You're a badass.

That bow, you shot. I mean, I was shocked how well you're shooting all day. It's just like, and it's so fucking quiet. This is the quietest blow I've ever had. You can kill a lot of shit with that thing. Let's do it. All right. Thank you for coming.

Love you. Keep hammering. Loopold optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glasses. All I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years. Thank you, Lou Pold.

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