Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 021 - Matthew Centrowitz

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

As a 3x olympian and 2016 Olympic 1500m gold medalist, Matthew Centrowitz’s name speaks for itself. Listen to stories of famed track and field legends like Bill Dellinger, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Centro’s father, Matt Centrowitz Sr. What does it take to become an Olympic gold medalist? Listen and find out!   Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Matthew Centrowitz: https://www.instagram.com/mgcentro/   Thank you to our sponsors:  Santa Cruz Medicinals: https://scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off Keytone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Black Buffalo: https://blackbuffalo.com/discount/CAM use code CAM for 15% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping First Light: https://www.firstlight.farm/ Use Code Cam15 for 15% off your first order Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com   0:00:00 Introduction 0:02:10 What does it take to become an Olympic Champion? 0:06:11 The Mamba Mentality 0:08:30 Focusing as a professional runner 0:09:26 A “tactical” Olympic final 0:14:15 Matt’s favorite races 0:16:35 U of O running career and turning pro 0:20:00 Where are all the rockstar runners? 0:25:00 The legend of Bill Dellinger 0:36:13 Similarities between Matt Centrowitz and Matt Centrowitz 0:40:45 Work your ass off, so you’re not the underdog 0:43:00 Being prepared for anything 0:50:00 “Old guy” in the field 0:55:00 The villain in the running community 0:57:30 How are you feeling physically? 1:01:40 Advice from the “King of the Mile” 1:08:54 The 1908 curse 1:16:33 Not knowing you’re the son of an Olympian 1:31:57 Matt Centrowitz Sr. 1:40:12 Records are meant to be broke 1:44:40 Difference between average and an Olympian 1:48:34 Thoughts on the Lift, Run, Shoot day   #keephammering  

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That is a part of my mind. I've been blessed with giving my blood so I am relentless. Welcome to the Keep Hammering Collective. I'm here with Matthew Citroitz, Olympic champion in the 1500 meter. Well, it's 2016, right? Many years ago. Yeah. Like yesterday, but.

Well, I watched that, I mean, I've watched that run many times. And we just watched it last night again. Just because it's so epic seeing an American runner hadn't won that Olympic final since 1908 until you won it. Yep. And the beautiful thing about COVID, well, the only beautiful thing about COVID, was that I became the second longest reigning Olympic champ because I got that extra year. Oh, nice. Olympics were in 2021. So I got an extra year in 2020 to...

Five years. To still be the Olympic champ. So yeah, that was kind of a special thing. But starting to kind of slowly move on to the next Olympic cycle and try to... You know, that's kind of the tough thing about sports. But in track and field in general, it's like there's always another race around the corner. There's always something else that you haven't quite achieved in that you have on your goals and on the horizon. and that's like, yeah, you maybe took a few weeks

or maybe even a couple months to like bask in that. Celebrate. Neck, move on. Yeah, you can't really rest on your laurels. No, definitely not in the sport. I mean, it's unforgiving. Even like you say, in Bolt, you know, he's lost a few times. And it's just really hard to kind of have a perfect tracking record

and to always be on your A game. And, you know, obviously injuries too. It's, you put a lot on the body. You know, I mean, we don't run 240-mile races, but the one-months. The one mile that we do run is quite taxing. I can't imagine. I mean, so what does it take?

So for somebody like me and looking in, I don't know what your life's like, you know, you see glimpses of it, but what does it take to become an Olympic champion? I mean, what has to happen and what do you have to do to get there? Yeah. I mean, it takes a lot. I mean, I was telling you this yesterday on our run. You could be prepared like mentally, physically, and you still need that like, one. or two percent amount of luck.

You know, you need things still on that right given day. And I think what makes the Olympics so special compared to like any other sporting event, in my opinion, in like the World Cup, it comes every four years. Right. And so it's not something like, you know, with NBA, you have best of seven. So you know what I have? I woke up with food poisoning. I had a late night.

Whatever it is, I can get it back on game two, three, four, five. It's like, you know, you wake up that Olympic final and you got a shitty night of sleep or you're texting your. texting your girlfriend all night and that was she was keeping you up and that's it that's that's the one shot you got until uh until the next four years and usually in the sport you know um yeah those those chances don't come often so on that day for whatever reason all the stars aligned and you came across the line first i mean so incredible i mean i'm still kind of indisible every now that i mean yeah right after that race i mean it took me i think my celebration was just like looking up in the

screen and like you know my mouth or my hands over my mouth yeah i mean i i kind of had a reputation for quite some time of like post race celebrations right being very arrogant and cocky and whatever and that was like the one time i had nothing planned and i didn't know what to do i was just double checking the scoreboard i wasn't celebrating a second place thinking i was first or whatever and so it was uh yeah it was a special moment for sure and then having my dad in the stands um and my sister can't neglect her. It made it even more special. The NBC interview I did after the race, they like, they want to talk about my race, but more

importantly, they wanted to show me the reaction of my family and friends in the crowd. And yeah, I think that was the part where I started kind of tearing up a little bit and it was like, it's more than just, it's bigger than me, you know? And, you know, obviously my family and friends all came along for the journey. And it was a piece of a piece of their success too. Yeah, I mean, I can't, you're always being known as an Olympic champion. And is like, even when we were meeting people yesterday on running, I mean, it's so easy for me to say, you know, this is Matthew Centroitz,

Olympic gold medalist. And it's like, for anybody, they're like, holy shit, what? Yeah. You know, I mean, if they don't know you, if they're not track, whatever. But most people do know you, but still, you say that. And it's just like, automatically you're at the, about the highest rung in the ladder. It's just, I can't imagine. No, you know, and so what, like, one of my favorite athletes is Kobe Bryant.

And obviously, since his passing, like, I've listened to a lot of his podcasts and interviews and whatnot. And it's so funny to me that everything he's achieved in basketball, that most of the time when they start going down his credentials and accolades, the first thing they say is Olympic champion as well. Like, they won't say, like, you know, I mean, X amount of an all-star and NBA champ. But, like, to those guys, like, winning the Olympics is, like, almost, more important than an NBA title.

Like I said before, like NBA titles every year. Yeah. You know, those guys only, the Olympics comes around every four years and who knows if they're going to be selected for the next one. And so even when you see other big time sports here in the U.S., even to those guys, yeah, like Olympic champion in the Olympics is like, it's the best of the best and it's, there's no greater feat. Yeah, I mean, to that point, I think when we talk about it, because everybody loves to

compare sport, you know, and whatever, whatever sport you're in, compare different athletes and eras. And I do find myself too, is like, oh, he won this, you know, Jordan won six. Yeah. And then you're like, well, how, did he win a gold medal to? You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, that's the differentiating factor.

But you reminded me of something when you mentioned Kobe. You see that where what I see now since it's passing is I see a lot of videos and it's more about his mindset. You know what I mean? They don't show him winning championships. They show him being like ruthless. Is that, do you take part? part of that type of mentality into what you do also?

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I would venture to say, you know, you can ask anyone and they'll say it's 20% mental or it's, you know, 80% mental. I don't know what the percentage is. And I'm not going to throw out a number here, but I will say in running specifically, when you go to all the professional groups around the world and you see all of the athletes that are lined up in the Olympic final, we all worked our asses off to get there. You know what I mean?

Everybody's elite. Everyone's elite. You know, I mean, maybe someone ran 100 miles and someone else ran 85 or someone did this workout. It's all the same. You know what I mean, but really when it comes down to on that day is what separates, you know, first place to fifth place and 12th place is the mental part. And, you know, a lot of times the I got shit over the years because like that Olympic race was super, super tactical. So it was much, much slower than most finals. They were saying a pedestrian pace.

Pedestrian pace. And, and so. I think more people probably credit my successes over the years of being like one of the smarter and more like mentally strong athletes than physical. And I'll leave that debate to other people, but I value, you know, just the mental strength a lot more in track and field than the physical strength. And I mean, when you're doing 240 mile races and you're out there grinding more hours than I am out there, I mean, you know, we were talking about this yesterday.

Like, I won't wear headphones. I won't wear music when I'm running because I like being in my thoughts. I like that I'm getting mentally stronger, whether it's like pushing through a hard mile, pushing through a hard workout. Whereas like if I have some headphones on or if I have some other distractions to take me away from like what I'm doing right then and there, it's like an easy way out. Right. And so I'll do anything that can like potentially like get me stronger mentally.

And I find like something so small like not wearing headphones, not listening to music and like actually like working through this workout and this run or whatever it may be during the course of the week is it gives me the extra advantage I need over my competitors. Yeah. Yeah. Gagin says that too. He says like, we're listening to music when you're running is cheating. It's how he looks at it. But it's a similar type of thing.

Listen, at the end of the day, you know, as a professional runner, we only dedicate, I would say, anywhere from 90 minutes to two hours a day of running, of running. And if you can't for two hours a day tune out the distractions, put the headphones away, put the music away. I mean, you could be on your phone the other 22 hours a day, whatever you, we are, right? Like, everyone's on their phones these days. And it's like,

if I can't just put that phone away and, like, focus on what, like, I need to work on or what is, like, going on in my life and training and racing, just for those 90 minutes, two hours, go find another job. Yeah. Like, I mean, I mean, we're talking early today, just like, how great our, like, jobs and lifestyles are. And it's like, I love it. Like, it's like, you know, I don't want to, like, you know, I don't need a distraction.

I don't want to, like, you know, make. it easier like i actually enjoy like you know getting better and knowing i'm getting better yeah exactly yeah um i was thinking so in that olympic final what what were you thinking technically because you knew you were running you know i saw i think one lap was a 69 which is or 67 maybe which is pretty slow for you guys and then it i remember the announcers were saying that you know it's basically coming down to a one lap sprint you know it's you saw that you guys kind of ratcheted up but what were you thinking at that time. Just like fighting for my position. You know, you did get kind of boxed in for a second coming into that. You see that move I made on the inside? Yeah. And that was before all the pushups I did

with you. So imagine what I'd be able to do now. Yeah. After arms yesterday. No, you know, it's, I think I need a pat in that move. I've done it before at a previous world championship. And a lot of times, especially like in a tactical race, you kind of float to the outside of lane one because you want to push people wide. Oh, oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. And so like, yeah. And so like, yeah. Make them run further. Correct, exactly. And so I kind of got boxed in and I was like actually in a pretty shitty spot. Like I was in the best spot all racing. All of a sudden the kickings about to start.

And then this guy body checks me, gets around and I'm like, fuck. Like I'm sitting there going like, dude, I ran in a perfectly race up to this point. And like you could see me look out wide because I'm not panicking yet, but I'm definitely trying to get out. And all of a sudden I was like, no, you know what? I can't get out. Like there's too many bodies. Everyone's there. And I just went back on the inside, looked and I knew he was going to try.

drift out just enough for me to like just squeeze by. And as long as I'm not putting my arm out, like I'm not impeding anyone, just drop my elbow down. And I made one quick side step on the inside, didn't step like inside the rail. Yeah. And then that momentum just like, I didn't even think twice. I just kept that momentum. It was like, this is my bid for home.

Yeah. And honestly, had he not got in front of me, I don't know when I would have started to wind it up. And I'm not like, in my opinion. I don't think I'm the fastest guy in the field. So for me to get that jump on the field, like, was everything in that race of like tense, right, in milliseconds. Right. Yeah, I look back and, I mean, I think I led a 1,500 meter race. I left 1,450 meters.

You know, there was like just only 50 meters of that race. I wasn't leading. But, you know, I felt really bad after the race because I could take shit. Like, I've been getting shit like my whole career, you know, like if I run fast, it's like, oh, he didn't win this race. But if I win that race, it's like you didn't run fast. You know, critics will find something. Yeah. But I felt bad because after that race, the Paralympics were right after.

And the winner of the 1,500 meters, I think they might have ran almost the same time. And so everyone was like, you would have won. You would have won the Olympics. And I'm not going to say anything, right? Like, I mean, it's, you know, whatever. It's all good faith and good nature. And he messaged me, even though, you know, he didn't need to. And he was like, I just want to let you know, like, you know, obviously I wouldn't have won.

And like, I don't listen to those guys. I'm like, listen, you don't have to explain anything. You made a great race. And so, like, it was just so much, like, talk about it, like, afterwards. And, you know, for me, it's like, because that was such a slow and tactical race, had that been a normal race in maybe 20 or 30 years, no one would be talking about it. But now I know they're going to always be talking about it for years. That's for decades to come.

Because it's so slow. It's a positive. Isn't the, the Olympics are tactical. Like, that's usually what happens kind of. It's never really, I don't know, maybe I'm not thinking of it, right? Yeah, it's about winning. It's not about running fast. Yeah, I mean, there's seldom ever world record set at the Olympics because people are

like tactical. Like nobody wants to make that move early. And so it turns into, it doesn't really matter the time. No. It's a fucking gold medal. Exactly. And because of that race, the race is now, like I know I was watching the world championships with you and Eugene last year, the event is changed now.

Like, no one's waiting for the last kick because that's like what's best for And what was best for me and a lot of the guys in the race, we all had really good kicks back then. Yeah. We were all like, we're content with just letting it. So at the end of the day, like athletes are just going to cater to their strengths. Right. And whether it's fast or slow and some athletes will take it on.

But, you know, for me, I always felt better when a tactical race because, again, it was more of this than actually the legs, right? Yeah, because I think pre, you know, we, we were up by Priz Rock yesterday, but he didn't have that, that, I think he had to push his pace in the Olympics because he didn't have that kick. He knew the guys had it. So that's, hey, if you don't have a kid, you better get out and push that pace. And pre would tell you that too, right? He'd be like, I'm doing this because, one, I'm getting the most out of myself, but two,

like this is what's the best way for me to win. Right. You know, and so. I mean, it's, kudos to you. I mean, Nick Simmons kind of has that same approach in 800. You know, we watched, there's a few races, and we were talking about it yesterday, a few races that I go back and I watch and, like, your gold medal win. Nick Simmons, the Olympic trials where he won here at the old Hayward.

that with Andrew Weeding and Christian, I can't remember what was last. Christian Smith. Yeah, yeah. Epic race. Oregon sweep. Yeah. Emma winning the world championships. I just, there's some that just stand out.

Then you had, what were some of your favorites? You mentioned. Yeah, you know, there's so many, so many great races. I know. You know, one that I'm really proud of is a high school race that I won at the end of my high school career. And it was a two mile at the national meet. And if you go on YouTube, it's like so old that you could barely make out who's who.

But it's a really cool race because a lot of the top guys from that race are still racing now. Evan Jay, you're in the steeple and so forth. And so that one was kind of a big breakthrough race for me. I think that really kind of solidified my name. And what was so cool about that race for me is like talking about Prefontein. I ran 841.5. And so I tied Steve Prefontein to the 10th. in the high school two mile so you know at the end of the day and I always knew this that like with

innovation and new technology and spikes and all this stuff kids are going to like and new training like they work their asses off I don't want to discredit that but I knew eventually like records always get broken and people like slowly move away and off the you know descending order list and the top 10 list yeah but I'll always be tied with prefontaine and like shoulder to shoulder with him that's so we could be a hundredth on the all time list but he's 101 and I'm 100 baby So that's kind of a cool thing. Yeah. Were you being recruited at that time?

I was. I had ready to sign my contract with the University of Oregon. And the funny thing is, is like I wasn't even, I wasn't on anyone's radar my junior year. So when colleges were recruiting me, the only reason why University of Oregon recruited me because it's my dad. You know, my dad ran here in the 70s. And, you know, it was a two-time Olympian, former American record holder. And so, like, obviously, like, was a big name for, you know, University of Oregon running. who's the school record holder here in the 1500.

And so it was almost like they had to recruit me because I'm Matt Centrist's son. And so I knew that a little bit. Like, you know, but at the same time, you know, sometimes, you know, I used to go along for the ride and be grateful for the opportunities you get. And so I don't think the, I don't think the college coach really expected me to take off like I did at the end of my senior year. And they're like, fuck. Like, good thing this is Matt Centro's son because we probably would not have recruited him. And then you came to Oregon and your career at Oregon, which is,

just incredible. I mean, no matter, no matter why you got recruited or signed, whether it's your dad or whatever, you got to the big stage and would you win three national championships? We won probably. We probably won a lot of, individually. I actually only won one. Oh, you did? Okay. Gotcha. I won one and I left. I was done. I was like, there we go. I got the one. I'm cashing out. I'm going pro. What was that in 15? It was in the 1500. Yeah. And that was so I had a whole red shirt senior year that I had left. But I was so young and, you know, with track and field, like there's not the opportunities that you get, like, in other sports. Once you, like, strike, like, you got to, like, take advantage of it.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I see college kids all this time where, like, they're hesitant of, like, going back and this and that. I'm like, you're one, everyone's one injury way of, like, not having any contract or having any opportunities that, like, you get when you're really hot. Yeah. And so, um, I just felt like, you know what?

I, I'd been in college for four years. I got everything I needed out of the University of Oregon and I was going to go join a Nike group. Um, and just kind of. of like, yeah, like look forward past NCAA into like the world stage, you know. Yeah. And that was kind of, uh, yeah, like I said, yeah. Was that exciting? Yeah, you know, I think like, I'll be honest, like, I had no idea that professional running even existed. I was so dialed in and so locked in. And that's like, that's like my one advice I always give to high school

kids because I get like the question a lot of like either like what's one piece of advice you'd give us right now or like they would ask like, um, hey, I want to break four minutes at the mile and school or like I want to do this I want to do that and I'm just like listen like go one step at a time and like they're a 430 miler and they want to break four and I'm like dude slow down let's break 420 first you know what I mean like that's like if your goal is to break four and you're a 430 mile or if your goal to be an Olympic champion and you haven't even won high school nationals every race between now and that goal is going to be a letdown it's going to be a failure yeah and it's good to have those goals to like want to go to the Olympics and want to run for the

University of Oregon and break four minutes in the mile. But have that out there, but don't be focused and concentrated on that and find like day-to-day season, in-season goals. So like it's you're accomplishing something. You're feeling good. You're building good positive momentum. Things that are attainable. And so especially at a young age, like it's so easy to just be like let down all the time

and depressed on like not achieving everything you want. And then before you know what, you're giving up and you're not even like, you know, going down to to college or like a D2 school because you didn't hit what you wanted to hit. I mean, Nick Simmons was a D2 guy. Yeah. You know, you don't have to have running success at an early age like you do in golf,

like you do in other sports. Like running, you could be doing this like older than you. You know what I mean? No, that's impossible. You could be, you could be,

I mean, there's like, yeah, there's just like so many opportunities and, and so much of running that you can make it. And kids want everything now. You know what I mean? I know.

And distance running, you need patience. Especially kids. It's true. But so how do I get in the fours? I want four, 59 mile. Okay. Where are we at right now?

Where do we think that PR is right now? With Nick, I think I ran. So we were trying to run my fastest mile. We were over there on that sawdust over on Priz Trail. Yeah. And I ran like a five, 15 maybe. Okay. Yeah.

So I'm going to say this right now. That's probably worth a five already. I mean, on a track on rubber or like on a road, that surface is like so much faster. Okay. Also, you got Nick, not me pacing you. Right, right. And ask Nick, I'm just a little bit smoother. I feel a little bit easier running by.

No, after we went out yesterday on our first mile, I feel like you got some wheels that you haven't really exercise yet. No, I'm just kidding. But that was fun. I mean, it's such an honor running with a gold medalist. It's just like, dude, you've been in this town, your name. I mean, I've been at the track me with you. People yelling Centro.

It's like, you're like a rock star. And it reminds me of that. I think Travis even has a poster up of pre-war we're all the rock star runners. That's you, dude. You are. Your personality and then you back it up and then you talk a little bit.

It's like so unique. So it's an honor for me to spend that day yesterday with you running, lifting, and shooting. Well, listen, the feelings are mutual. You know, we've been talking about this for, I don't even know, years now. And I'm just cracking up still at, you know, I'm asking you what pace you're ready to run.

And you're like, 10 minute mile pace. And I mean, the first mile was probably seven minute pace. And I'm just thinking like, this run is going to be a lot more difficult than I thought it'd be. But no, it's, you know, track and field, like obviously is giving me so much. And, you know, I wish, you know, when you're talking about, you know, rock star runners and like, you know, doing something with the sport and making it more popular and guys like you, you know, that come from different backgrounds. And And you guys like getting involved in bringing like guys like me on your podcast or just going out for runs and bringing light to it. It's like it makes me feel like, you know what?

Like track and field can have this presence in sports of like, yeah, it's kick ass. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, it's tough. You know, because it has this reputation of like, you know, it's not, like I said yesterday, it's not a contact sport. So everyone's like, you know, like, you know, it's not tough. You know, you guys are pussies run. You know. And it's like it's, it challenges you.

different ways, you know, like obviously, yeah, there's no skill set with running like other sports, but like what you get out of running is like so much more rewarding, in my opinion, of course, and I'm biased. But I mean, I appreciate, I guess what is what I'm saying is I appreciate you having me out here and linking up and doing things like with Emma and Nick Simmons and I even know like Danny Duncan was a runner in high school. And so you have those like personalities and you have those people like around the world that like either had running background or want to see in a good place. And so I just hope, yeah, whatever that next stage is, whether it's me starting my own podcast or having some type of involvement in the sport, we can kind of, you know,

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Living here in Eugene is hard not to be. But yeah, I've always said that runners, professional runners, people, even ultra runners, but just runners in general, deserve more respect and that spotlight on them than they get because it's so hard. And it's like you have to sacrifice so much. Like, I don't know, how many miles a week are you running? I mean, what do you try to get?

Any 80 to 100? Yeah. You know. And I mean, a lot of those. I mean, you knock out half that in a race. But yeah, we won't go there. Yeah, but it's still, I mean, that's so much dedication and focus. And to try to be the best in the world, you got everybody, everybody runs.

You know, it's not like this. you know, a downhill skier or a golfer, which not everybody has the means to be a skier or a golfer, but running, everybody runs. So you're lining up and you're challenging the world and something anyone can do. Anyone. And there's tracks around the world that someone can go there right now in Brazil or in Korea or wherever, Australia, and they can measure themselves up against anyone. But I can't measure myself up against LeBron James, nor do I want to.

Nor do I want to. I'll get bodied. But you know what I mean? And so that's a really cool thing. And it doesn't, you know, you don't need like fancy gear. You know, you don't need a track. You have a road. Maybe it's not soft surface, but you can run anywhere.

And that's what I'm saying. That pool of competitors that you have to beat is probably the biggest there is. You know, maybe soccer might be close. Basketball has, you know, a lot. But running, it's like the barrier of entry is so low. For sure. You're beating the entire world. So you line up in an Olympic final.

And you're saying, I'm going to be the fastest guy to finish this 1,500 meters today. Yep. And it's like, incredible, dude. You know, you talk about, you know, growing up here and knowing, like, how important and big track and field is here. Tell me about, you enjoyed Dillinger's house last night. Oh, my God. Yeah. Because, I mean, think about the rock stars that he, like, had some pictures with last night.

Yeah. Sam Elliott. Like, I mean, you know. Kevin Costner. Dude, like, there is like, you know what I mean? Like, we talk about the person. Like, it's just, it's such a cool thing. to see like the interest at least back then and like you know want to keeping that going but yeah yeah we uh

so to to just fill in that story after we did a run left shoot yesterday with matt and and uh Travis Thompson he was uh Travis was instrumental in setting this up so I have to give a shout out to Travis he's uh elevation ohm just the he made the film of me and Goggins training the one that's millions of people have seen in and you know it's like yeah who's gonna carry the boats you don't know me said all that stuff but anyway so Travis us put us together, then you have a connection with Bill Dillinger. Tell us about Bill Dillinger and just fill in the history for people who might not know because, you know, in Eugene, people would know the name. Of course. But a lot of people listen to this who haven't grown up running

and don't know the inner circles. Tell us about Bill. I mean, real quick, I mean, Bill Dillinger was the assistant coach of Bill Bowerman. And everyone knows who Bill Bowerman is obviously one of the founders of Nike. And so Bill Dillinger coached Prefontein, which again, another household name that most people that might not be in the sport know of. And so Bill has been in Eugene all of his life. He grew up in Springfield and he was a second father to my dad. And my dad's got like this book that came out and you could see the details of like, you know, losing his father like at a young age. He kind of like had that, wanted that void to be filled.

And Bill kind of filled that void for him, you know. And so my dad, a Bronx guy coming out to the east, coming out to the west coast for the first time. You know, Bill was not your typical distance running coach, you know. He could be caught leg wrestling at a local bar, getting arrested with Prefontein the next week somewhere else around the state. But, you know, I've been coming out to Eugene ever since I was a kid. There was pictures, as you saw in the house of me at like 10 years old, playing darts with Bill or, you know, jumping in his pool. And so Bill is, because of that relationship that my dad has with Bill, I've been able to develop

this relationship when I came out here in college and, you know, I would go up there and, you know, whether it's playing chess with him on Father's Day or just coming up there and getting away out of campus and coming up for a meal or just like a dip in his pool, but, you know, there's so much I've learned from like these old school guys. You know, I know there's track and field is now more new school, new generation, new, all this stuff, but you know, you can't forget about the old school. And sometimes, especially with running, you know, you don't want to overthink things. And it's like, you know what, just go out and run. You know what I mean? Just go out and just don't make it any more scientific than it

needs to be. And Bill always kind of like just reminding me of those things. And yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was seeing the photos there. And just to give Bill some credit, too, on his running, wasn't he a three-time Olympian? Dude, three-time Olympian, Olympic bronze medalist. Right. Won a medal. And I mean, he was, I think he won that medal. So he won his medal for sure on the third Olympics in Tokyo in 64. And he must have been, I think he was in his like young to mid 30s as well. So he had quite the career himself on and off the track, should I say. He told me some great stories.

One of my favorite ones that my dad, again, this is secondhand, of course, because I wasn't there. But one of my favorite Bill Dillinger stories was from my dad. and he at the time, you know, just got out to college, got to the University of Oregon, tried to make a name for himself. You know, he just got under the four-minute mile or barriers. So, you know, he was trying to. And at that time, I think you said at that time, people really didn't leave their state. No.

When they were going to go run in college or whatever. Going across the country was unheard of essentially, right? Yeah. So it's funny, like I said earlier, like the first time my dad ever stepped foot in the state of Oregon was the day he came out to run for the University of Oregon. So he transferred from Manhattan College. And the reason why he put so much belief in the U of O and Bill Dillinger specifically was months prior to him coming out, he was at the NCAA cross-country championships.

And it was somewhere in the Midwest, somewhere cold in November, you know, I'm sure snow, zero-degree temperatures. And my dad didn't have his coach travel out with him. So like that's red flag number one. Yeah. You know, he makes a national meet as a true freshman. He's good. Coach isn't there.

Coach is not there. You know, I mean, 18 year old, you kind of want your handheld. You know, you want some last minute advice on a race plan. And, you know, there's no pay phones nearby that you can go call them up like we have now with these cell phones. So he's out there and he's out there early. You know, he's got no coach. You know, he's just warmed up. He's sitting out in the freezing cold waiting for the gun to go.

Getting all stoved up probably. Totally. And teams are starting to trickling in now. And he's like, all. We're getting close to race time, you know. And so as they're like all lining up, you know, he's in the box next to the University of, which he was aware of, and they're not there. And he's like, what the hell are they?

Did they miss the start time? Are we going to run this without them? And as he's thinking is, of course, he's freezing his ass off. He's sitting there fucking trembling. And every team is there. They're all waiting. Their gun's about to go probably in the next couple minutes. And all of a sudden he looks over and comes.

Coming in screeching around the corner, probably on two wheels, is this 12 passenger van being driven by Bill Dillinger. And of course, like, you know, everyone's got their eyes on the University of Oregon, Prefontein, Bill Dillinger. Like, you know, this race is not starting until those guys show up. Right. And he just looks over. And the way he tells the stories, he's going, motherfucker. Because he knew in that instance that those guys do everything the right way. Yeah.

Everyone's already there, stripped, like, from their sweats. and they're just cold waiting for the gun to go. And Bill was timing that start time to the fucking tee. And he got there, out the guys came, ripping the sweats off. They get on the line and within a minute the gun is fucking shot. Those guys went on to win a national championship. And the whole time my dad was running, actually it's another good story, but he wanted to prove that he belonged on that University of Oregon team. So he wanted to make sure and five guys score in cross country.

Right. So even though you race seven, top five score. So he wanted to be in that top five. And he was counting in his head to make sure that like, I'm good enough to be on the scoring U of O team. The top five of the U of O. So he had to be, yeah, at least one guy. He wasn't, you know, he didn't have a team there at Manhattan.

And he didn't care about anyone else besides that. I wanted to be a top five guy at University of Oregon. If that meant a hundredth or if that meant fifth, I wanted to be that fifth guy. And I believe he was. He finished like 20. He was all American as a freshman. And already he made his mind up right then and there that he was going to U of O

next year. So he finished his year out. So back then, and still now, I believe, you need a release from the coach. And the coach didn't want my dad to transfer, you know. Like, obviously my dad was one of the top guys in the country, which is another side story about his state record. And so the coach didn't give him a release. And so my dad had to sit out a full year, which actually sort of was a blessing in disguise

because that was the year he got to know pre-Fontaine pretty well before he passed. But yeah, so my dad, my dad gets out to U of O and the first time he ever saw a hippie was as soon as he landed. He was like, what the hell is this shit? You know, a guy that was born and raised in the Bronx, went to school in Manhattan, which was actually up in the Bronx. UO was a complete culture shock. Right. You know, and what year was that? That would have been 70, so probably about 75.

He made the Olympic team as a college sophomore in 76. Oh, yeah. So pre-died in 75. It must have been like 74. There it was. Yeah, so 74. He got out the fall of 74 and then he had to sit out that year, which makes sense because the next year he made the Olympic team and was Bruce Jenner's roommate in Montreal.

That's a whole other. So tell that story about when your dad was getting ready for a big meeting, what Bill was saying to him. Yeah. So, so, yeah, going back to Bill Dillinger, what he was like in a nutshell was, you know, now these days, you know, you're, you're seeking out your coach moments before asking for any type of advice in some kind of rah-rah, you know, pet talk. And so my dad, like, finds Bill Dillinger, coach Dillinger on the infield, and he goes over to him. And, you know, again, he just got out there. This is, you know, he wants to make

a statement. He wants to prove he belongs out there. He's trying to get something going here. And it's a big meet. And so he goes over and him. He's like, hey, Bill, I just go, I'm pretty nervous, man. Like, you know, got any advice for me? Like, anything you want me to do specifically out there? Like, you know, help me out here. And Bill just kind of of leans into him. He's not looking at him, kind of leans into his chest. And he goes, um, so look over on the east grandstand row G, section two. And my dad's thinking like, okay. So he's like, you know, thinking this is part of the strategy he's about to give him. And he looks over and he goes, yeah, yeah, I see, uh, I see your girlfriend, uh, you know,

uh, Meredith. And he goes, great, great. Now look over on the west grandstand, you know, section A row three. So my dad like turns over on the other side on the Hayward and looks over and he goes, yeah, oh shit, yeah, there's your other girlfriend, you know, Pam. And he goes, now look all the way at the far end corner over by the Bowerman curve. And he looks over there and there's his third girlfriend all at the same meet. And I'm telling you, like, the way he tells this story, it was like the other two girlfriends, that wasn't their day. That was the wrong meet that they're supposed to be there.

Bill is more concerned about getting in trouble with three of his girlfriends being the same meet than my dad's first race as a U of O duck. Oh, man. And so, but that's, that was Bill and in my dad's relationship in a nutshell. You know, they were just two pieces in a, they were just having fun, joking around, you know, and just, you know, back then just, yeah. Running, running was something that they bonded over, but they had so many other things that they, that they, you know, would do together where it was like playing pool, you know, and Bill never did that with other athletes besides pre, with my understanding. and, you know, he would take my dad, you know, out late at night, and they would be shooting pool and gambling on certain games, leg wrestling,

and it would get to, like, three in the morning. And my dad would think, like, great, like, you know, Bill's here, so I can't get in trouble tomorrow. And as they're walking out of the bar, Bill would turn to him, no matter how many beers he has in him and says, you better be at 6 a.m. practice tomorrow. And, of course, my dad would get there, and Bill's already waiting there, you know.

So it didn't matter how late they stayed up, but you'd make sure your ass was there. right on time. Oh, classic. And maybe, I mean, who knows? Maybe Bill, that was a tactic talking about his girlfriends at the meet. Maybe there's a way to get your dad, you know. Take his mind off the race.

Right. Relax. Does he relax? Maybe laugh. Think about something else. Hey, he made the Olympic team his first year there. So whatever it was it worked. Yeah.

I think Bill had a strategy somehow. There was. There was something there for sure. Or maybe he was saying, hey, if you have three girlfriends, don't bring them all at the same meat. Maybe that was it. That was a lesson. Don't overthink it.

Oh, that's classic. Do you think that your dad, so you've been known to be, I don't know, maybe you said it cocky a little bit or maybe. Was your dad like that too? Or is that just an East Coast thing, do you think? You know, both maybe or all the above. I remember the first time. So when I won the NCAA championship, I did a, I did a slit throat across the, across my neck, as my finish. And I had that, you know, it was ready in my head.

I knew like when I start thinking of post-race celebrations, it like lets me know a couple things one it takes my mind off the race because I'm thinking about the moments before the race you know like the morning of but also it's like a different level of confidence that like it's not like I'm going to go out there like am I going to win or not it's like when I win this is what I want to do yeah you know and so um you know some people called arrogant some people call it confident and I think there is a difference between the two arrogance sounds like too much confidence right you know for me when I did that post race celebration I was actually kind of worried because there was rumors going around.

That was going to get D-Qed because of it. And obviously, I don't think they could do it. And I didn't. But I remember thinking because I, again, like, you know, I respected my dad so much. And he was such a big, he was there at the track and he was such a big mentor to me and someone I looked up to. Then I was like, he's going to yell. Or you know, he's going to be pissed. Yeah.

And I remember talking to him because a lot of people are like, what the fuck was that? You know, like friends of his or like just people in the stands. And my dad goes, and he told me this too. He goes, he said that to them. He goes, if he wins, as long as he's winning, I don't care what the hell he does. And I was like, that's it. I'm good with that. So when you were thinking of doing that and you said, I wonder if you're going to get

DQed or what you didn't care? I mean, you were just like. I know. I didn't know I was going to get. I didn't think I was going to get DQed for that before the race. After I got it, I'm in the airport flying back to Eugene. And there was like talks on message boards on my social media. Like he's going to get DQed because of.

And I'm thinking. Violence or something like that. Yeah, who knows? I just didn't think of like that being a thing. Now it would be toxic masculinity. Don't get, don't start with me. This is why I'm segueing out of the sport right now, this part. I would have been, yeah, I would have been reduced.

I would have never had a contract. I would have been all of that back then for sure. Yeah. But, you know, I remember right after that race, my dad came to Eugene because the U.S. Championships was like two weeks after. Everything just kind of rolls, like all these championships like kind of roll every two weeks. And he came up to me after, or sorry, before the final, but after the prelim. And we're sitting in at a Vero Cafe.

I lived right across the street there on high street in Eugene. And he sat down and he goes, I remember thinking like, dude, I'm fucking nervous. You know, I'm racing the big boys now. You know, Bernard Legat. You know, U.S. championships. So top three make the Olympics. Top three make the worlds at that year. Oh, the world.

Gotcha. Next year was the Olympics. Okay. And he, and again, he always knew what to say or, you know, he was always accurate with like everything that I could think of throughout my life, which was looking back now, it's like, you know, I guess only a father could like predict, you know, stuff like this. And he like, I remember he was sitting across me from the table and he says, I just enjoy this race because this is the last time you'll ever be an underdog. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Like, you know, maybe like, I just was like, dude, can we just talk about it again? And so he was doing his Bill and Dillinger stuff, you know, at that table. And sure enough, I won. He knew you're going to win and then you were going to be the favorite and everything else. And after that race, so I won U.S. championships, which again puts a target on your back. now you're a U.S. champion in the best in the country. And I went on still in college to win a world medal at the world championships later that summer. And after that, after that race, it was always just like, you know, are you going to medal again at the Olympics?

Are you like, you know, it was never like, are you going to make a team? It was always just like now the bar is like meddling and like winning these global championships no longer like making the teams. And so I would say like every, every championship, including today, I've always just kind of had that like, yeah, target on my back and sense of like, you know, the expectation is so high. The bar is so high. Do you like that? Of course. That's what you work hard for.

Yeah. Like, I mean, when people talk about pressure, like, it's a blessing, I guess, because I'm sure a lot of people will look at it as, um, the opposite as like a curse of having a father that was, you know, as good as he was. Um, because I constantly got compared to him. And I never like, because I guess at a young age, I was able to, like, like, like, because I guess at a young age, I was able to like acknowledge and know that he was a different athlete than me. You know, yeah, we have the same name.

You know, yeah, we run the same event. You know, yeah, we both went to University of Oregon. You know, I mean, all these obviously like parallels and comparisons. Like, you can certainly get bogged into that. But for me, it was like, this is a different error. I'm a different runner than he was. Like my dad was 6.1.175. I'm like a buck 30 soaking wet, you know, 510, 59.

I was a different type of runner he was but also it's like a different error like I'm racing different guys I'm my own person and I was able to do that at the age of like 16 and 17 and not let that pressure like get to me which it could have and so when when you talk about like oh man being at the top like that comes with more pressure

and it's like I worked my ass off like throughout my career to get to this point like I'm enjoying every second of it and enjoying it not like just resting on the laurels but like I'm accepting it and wanting that you know what I mean and it pushes you in training probably because you're like, no, hey, this is part of the deal. Definitely. I got to be the fucking best.

But I think that preparation and that, you know, built in the fire mentality helped you in that Olympic final. It had to, you know, because you, like, you've been dealing with pressure. A lot of people I would guess, of course, I don't know, but would wilt under the pressure of the big stage, like the Olympic final. Absolutely.

Yeah. A lot of people's like, if I could get there, if I could somehow get a medal, you know, not thinking about gold, but just a medal to Olympics, that's a fucking, that's huge. Right. So I think that all that preparation of your dad and Bill and all that built you to succeed in that final under that type of pressure.

Totally. And know that, you know, this race is a tactical race. You're good. You're going to make it happen. So a couple things there. Like first thing on that Olympic race in that Olympic moment. So we were the first event of that track night. And at the same time, the NBC or the, uh,

their broadcast, live television was supposed to start, let's say, at 8 p.m. So the racial was going at 8 p.m. Well, what happened was at same night, the soccer, the Olympic soccer final went into overtime and Brazil was playing. So it was like massive. So what happened was because they had extra minutes and went into overtime, our race got delayed. And so we were ready to go at eight and we're in this like paddock area. And I'll never forget, like they just kept holding us. And we don't know, right? I don't know. We're not paid attention. attention of soccer. We don't know it's in overtime because, you know, we're fucking warm enough our own race. And so we're just sitting there. And all we're getting is like, guys, like

hold on, hold on, hold on. And so we've been warmed up for, you know, whatever now, like, ready to go like 10 minutes now. And what felt like an hour, an hour and a half, which was probably like, like I said, 10, 10, 15 minutes. You could see guys like looking around like like panicking. Yeah. They're just like, what, what do we, like, they're asking officials. Like, what are we waiting for. And I remember thinking to myself like, like, why, like, whatever they tell us, like what we're waiting for, what, that's not going to change anything. We're still going off. Like, whenever like those like gates open for us to go out there and do one stride and get on the line, like you got to be ready for. So the, the mental preparation is like, I'm still thinking

of the race where other people are now like, they were like 10, 15 minutes ago thinking about the race. And now they're just like, what the fuck? Like, I need to do another stride right now. Like, I'm getting cold. Yeah. But guess what? We're all getting cold. And that was, and I don't like, I don't bring this up for it. But I, a part of the. reason why it was so tactical is they held us so long that we were not warmed up so no one could get off the line and like want to run a fast pace because we were just cooling off yeah i never heard that yeah i mean so that's you know and i i think in track specifically it's so by the book like the time like at heyward they'll say you know the the 200 final is it 228 or whatever yep and then the long

jump whatever but it's like so it's funny that you mentioned that because anytime that i with Emma, she'll be like, okay, I'll meet. You're going to say, let's meet at 922 for coffee. You know, because she's so like in that regiment. And so it just reminds me what you're saying. I'm sure she's still, she's mentally strong too. So that wouldn't affect her just like not like you. But I could see where some people, because it's so schedule oriented track meets are that you get out of that. And it's like changes everything. Dude, but that's life though. Yeah. And that's why again, I'm biased. but like track and field prepares you like out of all sports like the best for the game of life right you know whatever you end up doing because like running never the foot running never goes to plan you know we sit down let's say the beginning of the season in October and plan out the next nine months leading into the world championships I would put my life savings on that every athlete that plan that whole year out that something went wrong right something had a change in there there is no freaking way that like you're not going to have one day at least of like a sort of. calf or like a little niggle that's going to take you out and like detract you from like that weekly

plan or that daily plan yeah and so like you have to be able to adapt right you have to be and like not just like with your plan throughout the year but like races like shit like there's been handfuls of races where i warmed up and they're like we're running behind schedule okay all good i'll go rewarm up yeah but people like well whoa you know last like perfect example in 2021 Olympic trials i don't know why i keep getting screwed but my event we were there we were supposed to be like the the first event of the 2021, it was so hot. It was like 110 degrees. They pushed it out.

They pushed it out. They knew it was going to be 110 all week. Yeah. And so we get there. We're about to warm up. And they're like, you know what? We're going to do this later tonight. I'm caffeinated.

Yeah. I'm like, what the hell of my supposed to do? Go take a nap now. I was supposed to race the biggest race of the year, you know, in one hour. And now I got a, okay, okay. So you bring it back down. And it's funny because, you know, you saw guys in that Olympic trials race. Like, that affected them differently than,

others. You won that. That was a semi or what was that? Got second by point oh. No, it was the final. I got I got second by 0.0 something to Coahawker. Yeah. University of Oregon runner. Yeah. Which was the one where you came across, you were talking to him. Was that? That was a pre- that was a semi. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, yeah. A lot of shit leading up to that with his, his crew and me. So do you guys ever talk shit during the race? Um, I mean, I know you're talking at the end of it. But during, do you ever say anything? Well, that's. That was during the race. You know, that was on the home stretch. Right, right. Yeah. I didn't know.

Yeah. Like you mean like a little bit earlier than that? Yeah. The most shit talking I like to do is like moments before. Like on the line? No. So like before they even put you on the line, we're sitting and putting on our spikes like underneath the grand underneath the stands and underneath the stadium.

And I love like, and when I say shit talking, it's not like, oh, I'm going to whip your ass. It's like little small things. Like one time I remember, I was in a different event and I knew we're going to go out really fast. So I asked one of the competitors like,

what's your, what's your PR for like this other event? And he's like, you know, let's say he says like 150. And I'm like, well, get ready to PR today because we're going to go through faster than that. And we have to still do another one. Yeah. And so like, you know, it's like little things like that or like. So they're like, oh, shit, he's going to go out hot. Yeah, yeah.

Or like, oh, he's feeling good. Or like, you know what I'm feeling good. But you say little things. You just said PR. Yeah. Or like another one was another one after race actually. And we still had the next, we had another race the next day because it was the prelims. I remember.

I saw one athlete and they were doing strides to flush the legs out. And I didn't do them. And he comes over and he's like, icing next to me. And he's like, what were you doing? And he was like, oh,

I was just doing strides. I do us after every race. And he was one of my top competitors. And I was like, man, you're doing so many. You're tiring me out. And he's like, no, no, I do these all the time.

It's like, it's normal. And I go, he goes, it flushes my legs out. I go, well, that last lap flush my legs out. And you can tell. He's like, I'm fucking out of this cold tub.

He was like, I'll see it tomorrow. Like it was like, you could tell. Like, he started questioning like, should I have done that many? Like, should I stop doing this? Right. It's like, what the fuck?

So that's the shit I like to do. That's what we do that too when we used to go and shoot 3D tournaments with our bows. Yeah. So you learned how to shoot a bow yesterday. And you know how, you know, you'd come and you do the same thing. You got to anchor the same way, string on your nose, corner of your mouth, do all the same thing. So all you have to do is say something like, man, you always anchor like that? And then there's like, what the, what am I doing?

Then once you start thinking about it, then all sorts of shit comes up. So it's the same type of thing. You don't have to say, you know, you're a shitty shot. I'm a better shot. The little things. That's worse. Yeah. It is because it gets that brain thinking.

Then they're like, then it can go a million different directions. Exactly. But so what were you saying at the end of that 1500 DeKole? Do you remember? Like I was telling you earlier, there's so much shit that comes on my mouth. Like I think I think I said to him, and it wasn't that much shit talking. I just said, because we were up and away from him. the field and we had qualified.

I said, oh, we're good. We're like, you know, we can ease up. Yeah. You know, but just being like, you know, just even talking though, you're like, you can tell he was thrown off a little bit. Yeah, they're not, they're not talking at the end of the race. No, they're not, yeah. But I mean, we, him and I were like the class of the field for sure that year.

So I think, you know, I knew he was going to be my, I knew he was going to be my, I knew he's going to be difficult to beat. And I wasn't really trying to get in this head. I actually genuinely was just like, dude, we can no need to kill ourselves here. Right, right. You know what I mean? like let's let's save this for the final that's a tough one added a lot of people like what the fuck did you say so i i wanted to make it a good story so every person i said or i ran into i

i had a different story for i love i mean you were running and just like looking and kind of smiling at them and that's no-mo you could see my mouth just like like like you could spin it like there was there an f-bomb in there i know is it i love it because track doesn't have that usually you know what i mean it's like we we kept talking all the way through we jogged off the track we're still running and ran down the tunnel and we're still talking to each other i don't I have a lot of respect for Cole. He's, especially being a U of O guy. It's, it's, you know, he had an unbelievable year that year.

So there was definitely no disrespect. And I think it was just good banter. So, I mean, so that means you're good if, if you don't win? No. Did I say that? No, whoa. I'm just kidding. Yeah.

No, you still want to win. You can still respect somebody, but you're going to beat them. I mean, that's what you're there to do. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm not there to make friends. No. You know? So how does it feel to be the guy now, like the old lion?

pretty much. Dude, you know, these young fuckers trying to knock you off. It's hypocritical. Let me tell you something. When I won my, the championship I told you when I was in college, I was 21. And I beat Bernard Legat, who was in his 30s. And everyone was like, holy shit, Bernard Lagat still taking it to these college guys at this age. They're giving him credit.

They're giving him credit. So, and as he should. Like, yeah. Like, you know, he's older and blah, blah. I'm 30-something. And the same thing happened with Cole Hawker. He beat me by, you know, and I beat Bernard Legat like this. And everyone's like, you lost to a college kid.

I can't fucking win, dude. Like when I won as a 21 year old, it wasn't like, damn, he won when he was young. But when I, when I like, you know, I'm in my 30s and I'm like finishing second to a college kid, they're like, you must feel real good about yourself. Or like, you know, wow, you can't be a college kid. And it's like, dude, you can't win. Like I found like, you know what? The guys that are in my corner, or was going to be my corner, no matter if I finish first or if I beat a college kid or if I, do whatever and the haters

are always going to be the same there like no matter what you do no matter what you say do you think that maybe people are giving you credit but you're focusing on the shit talkers to get that chip on your shoulder okay you want me to be really a thousand okay because that's what I do I skip over all the shit oh you're doing great you're awesome

awesome it's like this one's like oh what the fuck is this guy saying I hate to admit it because I don't want to give them any credit but yes you're a hundred percent right you can get what was this I think it was Travis actually here there was a race I finished or there's something I did it had been a race and um and it went well and I knew all the people close to me who didn't message me yeah or and I know the and I know the

negative stuff I kept track yeah so you're right I mean it's like the Michael Jordan um last dance thing he was building these narratives in his head and that was probably you know however many parts series it was maybe six or eight 10 episodes the one thing that really stuck out to me and I can relate to like as much of a competitive athlete i should say is that like you know i mean i've been i've longevity i've been in the sport now for half my life right and you get to a point where you're finding you're finding different ways to motivate yourself and to get your ass off the door and and keep with the same fiery right it's hard day in and day out year in year out and it's funny because you know um what you say like or at least with the michael jordan thing was like this is my

favorite part of it, you know, he's telling the story from, from his perspective. And he's like, I go to this restaurant, you know, a night before the game. And I'm sitting there and the coach walks by me and he doesn't say hi. George Carl, I think. Yeah. George Carl was that one. Yeah. I don't remember who, I don't remember which coach it was. But he goes, the coach walks by me and doesn't say hi. And I'm like, oh, okay. Like you're going to say that? You're going to do that to me. Yeah. Now it's on. So the next day, he's like, I dropped 30 on them. I dropped 40 on them. Right. Well, then guess what? They interviewed the coach. And he goes, I didn't even go to that restaurant. night before. And so he made that story up in his head. And like probably like Michael Jordan probably

passed a lie detector test of being like, did he do that? He believed it. He believed it. And he needed that. You know, and the next, the next night, it was a different athlete or a different player or a different coach that pissed him off. Yeah. You know that I took it personally. You know that quote. I love that. I love that too because it's so really because like, yeah, like I try to find the things, you know, you can't do this or someone said this. Like, you know, you try to find those things. I probably build it up a little bit more. But you're right. You're like, do you think that, you know. But those kids, too, those college guys, I think they have actually talked shit, haven't they?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you remember anything they've said? That stuff will be with me to the day I die. Of course. Like I said, I don't remember the nice stuff things people say. Yeah, you know, they were trying to make track and feel popular. And they thought like a rivalry.

Yeah. There's no rivalry way. Good guy, bad guy. I'm always a bad guy. Yeah. And that's why I'm wearing black right now. I'll black. Like, I'm, I'll take that a role.

You're going to do a funeral? Yeah. Yeah. That's Johnny Cash. Yeah. There's. Yeah. You know, I'll take whatever role, you know, and, um, but you like the bad guy

role, don't you? Love it. Okay. I'd rather be the bad guy. Right. But, you know, I am a good guy. I want to be loved too. No.

Um, you know, you remember the, um, the, uh, well, it was a big three, but basically the rivalry with Sepcoe and, um, Steve Ovet back the day. You heard of it. Yeah. So Sebco, who's like our IAAF president and, you know, just this like great reputation. He was a, you know, politician but polished like in the interviews, nice guy. And then you have Steve Ovette who actually ran with the son for like a year here at UO and he was the bad guy. And the funny thing is I just watched this like documentary not too long ago.

He was like, there's nothing that guy could have said or done to like change that narrative. Right. And so it's like one of those things that like all it takes is like one interview or one thing that you say and you become that like the villain for, you know, the rest of your career. but, you know, every movie needs a villain. Yeah. Every, like, you know, every story needs a villain. And so, like, if I fit that story and I got to be that guy, I'll be that guy, you know. It's awesome because you, I mean, I think you're built for it.

I think that East Coast mentality and being kind of brash and then the cut in the throat. About the beginning of many more to come, but yeah. Oh, I love it. I mean, I love that you accept that role because it does make it more interesting. I know I was when those kids were saying like, hey, what's what's what's going on with With Centro and Cole Hocker and I think, was there another Cole? Cooper. Cooper.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, look at right now. Look at Lakers and Timberwolves. Yeah. Sorry, my God. The Memphis Grizzlies. Yeah. I mean, you have, um, he went to Oregon.

Dylan Brooks. You have Dylan Brooks who like maybe, maybe two percent of people out there like them in 98, but it actually adds viewers. Everyone's going to tune in watch. Yeah. I couldn't wait for that game after he said, you want that, want my respect, drop 40 on me. John 40 on me. He's old.

Yeah, he's old. But like that's, I mean, you don't have him talking shit like that or you don't have a character or a team or, you know, an athlete like that. You know, like, I mean, I'm going to go watch another game. Yeah. You know, like Katie versus Russ. You know, that's a good, like, you know, they're arguing each other like, you want that. That's what you need in like rivalries and sports. And that's what, like, attracts viewers.

Yeah. You know, that's what's getting viewership. I mean, if we all like each other, we're all holding hands and, you know, we're all slapping high fives. It's like, boring. Yeah. Like, no one's going to. But like Noah Liles at Worlds last year. Yeah.

Him and him and the Nighting guy, they were like going at it. Like they were talking shit in the middle race. That's awesome. I was tuning in. I wanted to see that fine for sure. Everyone did. Yeah. Yeah.

Makes it good. I mean, I'm preaching to the choir here, but like again, you need that. Yeah. Well, so how are you feeling? I mean, you're 33. That is, I think you said that normally you're at your best in what your event and maybe mid mid 20. Yeah.

But how are you feeling physically? I mean, you still think that you're going to be the best in the world. I mean, it seems like if I had to guess yesterday after you're running your two-minute mile on talking like we're like I said sitting on a park bench, I'd say you still got it. But how are you feeling physically? Yeah, you know, so I had ACL surgery like last year. And so that wiped me out for the whole year. But it's been a long tedious process back.

But the fire is there. Yeah. To be honest with you, like I think my goal right now is like making the Olympic team, fourth Olympic team going to Paris next year and that can ride off in the sunset. I've found like once you make these global champions. It's like anyone's game. And so like my goal right now is just making sure and I love not just to make the team but win the U.S. trials next year.

And then, you know, take it one round of time at the Olympics. And then, you know, once you get into the final, do something weird. You know, you never know what's going to happen. So. But for me, yeah, I think like making that Olympic team is going to be kind of like my, my big goal over the next 12 plus months. And I mean, if I had to look at, so just say in the last few days, you came and you ran a meet here in Eugene on Friday, right?

Then you ran, I think you said, 17 miles, a six-minute pace on Saturday, right? Don't tell all my secrets. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Then we ran yesterday, which is like a day off, but it's still. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That was like some hill repeats, like for, I don't know, an hour and a half or so, you know. Did you feel it on your legs?

Felt my arms more. Oh, I felt my arms more. I'm going to be completely honest with you. The run was nice. It was a massage the legs a little bit over the hills, but that upper body workout here. I'm gonna be feeling that for a week. Oh, that was awesome. I shake these arms out a little bit.

That was so fun. But you showed me some of your moves too. It's a lot different. The leg stuff and the core stuff. And it's like balance and the ability. I was saying I need to do that as telling Tanner. I need to do. I never do any of that.

Oh my God, I should be doing that shit. You know, you're doing something right. You know, I'm gonna, you know, I won't fine tune. I won't critique too much of what you're doing here. But, you know, like, we're talking about this yesterday. I could totally see like your mindset and your perspective like of the weight room of like I train legs with the runs I do. Right.

I don't, you know, I don't need to like go hit legs again. They're going to trash me more for tomorrow. You know, like we're training for two different type of things, you know. Mine's more speed oriented. So like I have to like, you know, hit some of these like Olympic lifts. Yeah. But I mean, if, yeah, when I'm done running, I'm going to be right there with you. Getting those arms a little bit, you know.

Oh, definitely. No, you did, you did great. That was so fun. You got, you got veins in your shoulders, dude. Dude, that's all for show. That's all for show. How did that on Friday? Did you run a four?

You ran a mile. You're doing a relay, right? Yeah, yeah. So it went, you know, it was a lot of fun. Runner's space shot out to them. They really wanted to put something fun together for the former ducks, the alumni. And so they brought in about four or five guys that ran for YuVo over the years. And we were all in the team different times, actually.

And so we just kind of went for this four by mile record. You know, it was kind of a long shot. Like a lot of us were either, like, you know, coming from. It's early in the season, too. It is. One of the guys came back from Australia within a week. I had a hamstring thing that kind of flared up the week before. And so we're just like, you know what?

Let's just get out there. Have a nice, like, hard effort. Let's enjoy the weekend. And that's what we did. We had a poker night on Saturday night. So it was a lot of fun. No pressure. But still you ran like a 40.

404, I think. Yeah. Which is, you know, just trying to think that'd be like you missing the target. I mean, like, yeah. Really? That's slow. Maybe at like 100 yards away. Maybe at 100 yards away.

Seems really fast to me. Would you say 160 was your, or 120 was your farther shot? Actually, I've hit the balloon at 309. Okay, so never mind. It'd be like missing the balloon at like 250, 250. 200. Yeah, I mean, because still 404 is fast as fuck. But obviously it's not your best is, right?

349. 349. Yeah. And that's a lot of seconds. I mean, even like, so I'll run 349 in the world records, 343, 6 seconds. And everyone's like, you're so close. You got it. I'm like, six seconds is like 50 meters.

man. I was like, I don't. Who was that? El Grus in the picture. King of the Mile. King of the Mile. Oh, my God. That's so fast. Told me take the earrings out. I know. What a great story. Yeah. So King of the Mile, I took the kids over to meet him one time. Actually, he was here for the pre Fontaine and it was marrying Jones and him and whatever's like this time. But he had some advice for you.

He did. He saw you running, right? When you were young, how old? He came out here when I was a freshman. So I was like barely 18 years old. And we're doing a a workout actually out on Amazon. And we're coming around. And obviously his English, or I shouldn't say obviously, but his English isn't good. And so we had a girl on our team,

same class as me actually. And she's from Belgium. So she speaks French fluently. So they were like talking to each other. She was his translator. And after the workout, she comes up to me and she's like, hey,

like El Grouche had a lot of like positive things to say about you. And I'm like, don't fuck with me. I was like, you're kidding me. And she was like, no, no,

he kept like, you know, nudging me and being like, who's that guy? Who's that guy? And kept pointing to me and said, he's got really good, smooth form. And he could be really good. And I just got my ears pierced like the first couple weeks of school. Both ears. Both ears.

Two big diamonds, you know, like the typical, I don't know, fuck boy look. And I like, I'm like, yeah. And she's like, and he says, but real athletes don't wear earrings. And, you know, athletes meaning athletics. But I mean, Christiana Ronado, he's a. real athlete he wears earrings you know and and don't get me started on all the girls I wear rings but um I I didn't think twice I took them out later that night immediately left them out for years really that was 2000 so that would have been like 2008 2009 so 2016 you know

fast forward to the Olympics um so whatever seven years um is my math right yeah seven years eight years later yeah I'm uh I'm actually going down right before they held us like I was telling you for like 10 or 15 minutes we're in the last call room and he's like he's big time like he's still is part of like iD up our governing body of track and field so he's down there like he wasn't competing he wasn't competing now he's like you know i don't know working for some federation or or like the i wif and he looks over and sees me and recognizes me i could tell and he just starts rubbing his ear he rubs his ear and i just rub my back because i don't have him in there right and he just he just gives me the thumbs up and i was just like you got the seal of approval i was a seal and then i end up winning

and he just you know he was going over to me and i was like yeah man is the earrings out you know I was just elated. But yeah, that was, that was like a really cool thing. And now I got them back in because, you know, I don't need to be a real athlete anymore. Yeah, you proved yourself. Exactly. Yeah. And you told me a story, too, about after you won that gold, what you and your dad, I think NBC caught a mama, what were you guys saying?

Yeah. So that day, though, let me like, like, leaning up to that day was like, besides, of course, winning the Olympics, that day was like all three of my heroes, like had reached out or I ran into at some point. So, like, Jim Ryan, who, you know, actually made an Olympic team with. Bill Dillinger. He sent me an email leading up to that race. Was he the first to break four minutes? No, Roger Bannister was. Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah, who apparently is a third cousin of mine. Oh, really? Like, my mom's made name was Bannister. Don't, again, don't get me started. I don't know if we believe that. Like, it just seems too much. Yeah. My dad runs and he's ready that. And now we have apparently Roger Bannister ties like, all right, that's too much.

So, so Jim Ryan, who like is just an absolute legend in the sport, had the world record in the, in the 1500 at one point in the high school record. He, like, sent me an email, reached out, like, you know, you know, he said him and his wife are praying for me. Good luck. All the best. Sent a Bible verse. And I was like, holy shit, this is Jim Ryan.

Yeah. So I was, like, reading that email on the way to the track, getting fired up. And then I run into El Grouge with the ears. Yeah. And then the third and final, like, legendary miler was Sepp Co. And he has died of present. He's walking around. And he comes over me, he just goes, welcome to the club.

And I was like, man, I got the trifector that day. Yeah. It was like, for me as like a miler. It was. And so I'm finishing the race. And I'm going around and, you know, I'm just, I got the American flag draped over me. And I'm just fucking just, you know, slapping high fives, taking pictures. I'm still, like, wondering if that was real.

And I finally, like, see my dad. He must have came down from the stands. And he's just yelling at me. And I'm going, are you fucking kidding me? And I look back and he goes, are you fucking kidding me? And we must have done this exchange for, like, what felt like an hour. Yeah. But, like, for at least, like, maybe, like, 10 or 15 seconds.

And then I look back at the NBC replay. And all you see is just. just our mouths and it doesn't take anyone that needs to like be a good like lip sync like reader they can just see those f bombs flying that's awesome and uh and yeah that was um that was a that was a that was a great moment um we were both just in disbelief man it was like my my dad again my dad will never pass up on a celebration you know especially a celebratory drink right that night i've never heard these words that come out of his mouth we finish i'm like dude we're we're we're going to this place. We're going to like, you know, we're getting some champagne. Like, he goes, he's like,

he's like, I'm going back. I'm going back to my Airbnb. And we're like, you're not going to come out like and celebrate with us. And he's like, he's like, I don't want to drink right now because that's going to kill this buzz. I have a good buzz going and I want to feel like how I'm feeling and I want to remember it. Right. And so he just went back to his area. I saw him in the morning for like we were on the Today Show or something. Yeah. But he was at the first time I never, I never heard those words out of his mouth. Was it celebrating. I never heard him pass on a drink. Yeah. And, and He was just like, it looked like he was in shock, you know? Yeah.

And he just wanted that feeling. Like, you know, people drink to forget, right? Like, they don't want to remember. And I was just drinking to celebrate, but he, like, he didn't want any type of, like, I mean, even to this day, he laughs at people doing beer miles. He goes, why would you want to ruin two good buzzes? You know what I mean? A good run and a good buzz from drinking. You know, it's like combining too.

But, like, he had it obviously, he was on a high, you know, from like that Olympic race that he was like, I don't want anything or I don't want to be around anyone. I just want to like bask in this. Oh. You know. Have you, do you guys ever watch that race like over the years? I don't know if he does. And I'll be completely honest with you.

Like I actually don't watch it as much as you would think. I think I've seen that race less than 10 times in my life easily. Yeah. And a lot of those times are like if I'm doing an appearance or I'm speaking somewhere and they'll show up before. And I don't know why it is. I don't watch it as much. I think I probably would watch it more when I'm done running. Yeah.

I think it's one of those things that it's just like, like I don't want to live there. Yeah. Like right now. You're on to the next. I mean, like you said, there's always something around the corner that you gotta get ready for.

I don't really watch back a lot of like my races unless I can learn something from it, you know? But other than that, it's like, it just feels like you're living too much in the glory days, right?

Yeah. And I'm okay with that like when I'm, you know, older. But right now, I just like, I don't know, it just seems like,

um, there's like these like meme where it's like, you know, reaching out to his picture and, you know, it's like, it's just like,

it just like I'm just like, I'm just like trying to rehash or relive something, you know? And it's just like, you know, I'm still trying to create like, you know, new goals and new memories and great memories. And, you know, obviously it might not look like winning Olympic gold and being the top of the pinnacle, but it could be winning Olympic gold in another arena, you know, however that may look. Yeah. And you got, you know, your fourth Olympics to make.

Damn right. Yeah. I got Olympic trials, you know, beat up these, these young kids talking shit. Wait, no one's talking shit. Right? That's right. It's in my head. Oh, it's all.

No. We'll make them talk shit. Please do. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you need to talk. Maybe you'd make it a fake account and just start like chiming on me. I could do that. I might need that come next year. You did have another good story about the 1908, like the last win and the Chicago, the Cubs, too. So he actually, he ran for my dad. I won't mention his name in case, you know, he doesn't want to know that. He's a gambling. He's generate.

But there's a guy, a friend of mine in a former runner. And so, you know, track and field, he can't gamble on like NBA and NHL and all that stuff like every night, but the Olympics and world championships are like the, you know, the few opportunities you can. And they just don't know how to like cap these, these races because what they do is like they'll just like put whoever has the fastest times of the year, like a descending order list, and they'll go off of that. But what here in the US, we don't run as fast as the Kenyans and the Ethiopians and even some of the Europeans because we might stay just here in the US. We don't have the opportunities. And we're working on tactics and championship racing.

So a lot of Americans, Emma Coburn is probably one of them as well. They will just have shitty odds. Like there's like, you know, like long shot odds. So I think I was like 2000 to one. To win the gold. Yeah. No, sorry, sorry.

Sorry. It would have been 20 to 1. 20 to 1. 21 to win the Olympic gold. And so I had a lot of friends and family, of course, just for fun, you know, sprinkle some money to make it interesting or they like knew I was in really good shape.

And I even had people like ask me and I was like I don't know about to win. I was like for sure like I think I am. But like I was like to meddle because you can bet on that. That's a lock. So did you really believe you're getting metal? I mean, no doubt. Worst case scenario. I'm not kidding.

I say this. Worst case scenario I get second. Really? I thought that after the semi final, like you know these things. Yeah. I had done unbelievable workouts leading up to this. Like I mean, I even said this after one of my workouts. I looked at my coach and I said if I don't win the Olympics this year, I'll never win the Olympics or I'll never win anything.

I felt that good. I felt that good. I was that confident. I was doing some sick shit, like on the track, mind-boggling stuff. And so I, like, I didn't even bleed these workouts. So I told people like, safe bets to metal, but, like, you know, if you're feeling spicy, if you feel dangerous. So this friend of ours, this guy that, like, ran for my dad, he put, like, a nice size bed. I think he probably put, like, a grand or something like that on me winning the Olympics.

Like, certainly, like, $800,000. Anyways, he won about, like, 10 or 20 grand on this thing. and and I ran I ran into him later that fall and the funny thing is we're actually at this party that was open bar and he's like I got to buy you a drink I'm like it's open bar and he was like well another time yeah and he's like let me tell you why so he's telling me this story and he goes I put you know this amount of money on you winning I'm like damn that's like nice good hit you know like congrats you know 8 10 20,000

he goes doesn't stop there he goes you won the first Olympic title for an American in the 15 since 1908 I knew the Cubs hadn't won a world series game world series since 1908 and I thought it was an omen and I don't think he was a Cubs fan he might have been but he just knew that right that connection he and this is mind you this was I won the Olympics in in August so the playoffs having started with with Cubs so it was a long shot he parlayed that whole amount of money on the Cubs to win the World Series that scored him like six figures oh my God and and as everyone know like Any football, any baseball fan out there knows in 2016, the Cubs were also the first, you know, to do something in 108 years.

Yeah. And so like, incredible. Dude, if I ever see like some type of like sign like that again, I'm shipping it. You're jumping on it. I'm shipping it. That's incredible. I mean, good for him. Good for him.

I'm like, I still haven't seen that drink. Yeah. You know, I haven't seen that drink since. Nice parlay. What a parlay is right. Yeah. Then I was also thinking, so you said Dillinger has a lot of stories. Tons.

What's another good story that stands out from him? Oh, man. You know, it's one of the biggest, like, crimes out there is Bill having a stroke that he did 2000. Because, I mean, you saw his house. Yeah. Just the amount of people and pictures that he has, like, he's been, I mean, he's 89 years old. He's been around. He's, um...

Last night, he wanted to keep taking us to different rooms. I mean, pointing, wanting to show everything. That's what he does. It's a game of charades with him, you know? It's like, you know, you got to like, all right, who? Who's your favorite runner? You know, we finally cracked that code, but it took like a few minutes. But he just has so many like, and again, it was a different era, right?

Like where he grew up in the stuff he was able to do. But another funny story, another crazy story of Bill. Let me think. I have so many of my dad and him. I'm just like blanket on him because it's like one of those like things. It's like just too many. But your dad had that good one where he ran into Bruce Jenner. I like that one.

You like that one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so he was, like I said earlier, he was in the 1976 Montreal Games. And he was roommates with him. And they get on a, they're both flying to get honored for the 2008 trials. I think they're honoring that Olympic team. And so my dad goes out there for it. And I remember actually sitting on the couch because I was like her and I didn't want to go out to the trials and be around it.

And so he's flying out there. And he must have been on his like connecting on the last leg going into Eugene. And he's like walking on to the last leg going into Eugene. And he's like walking on to the. plane and he looks over and he sees Bruce sitting you know first class and um at the time you know um my dad like I said earlier was like was a bigger guy like as a bigger runner you know he weighed 1 7 or 180 as a as a distance runner and so um you know as you would guess after stop running those 100 mile weeks he gained some weight yeah he could work out twice a day he's still going to be

220 you know and and uh so my dad you know obviously gained quite a bit of weight lost lost you know lost his hair. You know, back then in the 70s, he had the whole flow thing going. He had the hair, the big mustache, had all that stuff going. Yeah.

And so he, um, so yeah, bald, you know, fat, um, you know, and he's walking onto this plane.

He looks over and he's like, Bruce. And, you know, at this time, you know, this is 2008, you know, so,

um, before Bruce was Caitlin. Yeah. And, uh, but nonetheless, you know, had,

you know, some work done. He goes, Bruce. And Bruce looks over at my dad and just kind of like, you know, kind of you could tell was like not quite sure who this is like help me out here and my dad's like it's mad it's me mad centruits and we're just like oh mad holy shit could hardly recognize you and my

dad just shakes his head in this belief like you know i'm just aging he was motherfucker recognized me i can barely recognize you with you know plastic surgery everything i mean his whole face was done and my dad was like so offended you know he's just like man i gained like yeah 20 pounds but shit man look at you now he really wouldn't recognize him what he Oh, man. With those tits? Yeah. I don't think you'd recognize it one bit, man.

He's like, that's not the room. I didn't see those in Montreal, man. I didn't see those. Yeah. Roommates with Bruce back then. But there is a documentary out, and Bruce was a freaking savage. Yeah. I mean, incredible athlete.

But, man, I mean, when you, like I said, when you win, like, Ashley Needs one of my, like, close friends with Travis and I went to school together, when you're, like, the decathlon world champion or Olympic champion, you're declared the greatest athlete. of, you know, that time. Like that's just like, you know, back in the day, that's how they marked, you know, who's the greatest athlete. Well, they looked at like who can do all these events.

Yeah. And the deck was like that standard, right? That's how you measured it. He was handsome, big, strong, greatest athlete of all time. Just like who you'd want to be. Yeah. And it's crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't think you saw that coming. Did not see that coming. Yeah. No. What was, uh, oh, he had another good story about your dad. You didn't know. So tell the story.

You didn't know your dad was a. two-time Olympian for how long? Oh, that was one of them I was going to say earlier. Yeah, when I was coming to the sport. You know, whether it was reverse psychology or whatnot, you know, I knew my dad was a coach. Like, growing up, I was 100% going to be a soccer player. My screen name was de next Pela 39. And when I, I didn't say, I said that right, duh, D.A.

Because V was taken already. Okay. The next Paley 39. I don't know who had that screen name out there. And if they're listening, like, fuck you, dude. Like, I had to do duh. And so I had. Danex Pela 39.

Were you good? Damn right, I was. No, no. So I thought. Yeah. And no, I was good for like a travel, you know, Maryland soccer, you know, traveling team. But I thought I was a lot better than I really was. And again, that's, you know, there against myself.

And I get to high school and I don't make varsity. And that was a huge blow as a freshman. And only one freshman did. But I at least knew that if I was going to be playing for Barcelona or Real Madrid, I had to be on varsity no matter what right away. So that was like a huge shock and blow to my ego. And so I was like, and again, like, you know, with soccer you do a shit ton of running, right? Like it's a what we call him running fart lick.

Yeah. And it's where you're stopping and going and stopping and going. And so I knew I had those tools. Like I knew I was fast. I knew I could run long distance. And I do it. I did enjoy it. But like obviously soccer was a lot more fun at a young age.

And so my dad was just like, you know, he would take me to track practice. like his track practice and he'd be coaching olympians and and like you know some of the some of the world's best athletes and i'd bring my soccer ball and i just you know wouldn't even bother watching the track practice i'm juggling and i'm hitting against the ball and uh you know as as high school got closer i was like yeah i think i'm going to go off for soccer i don't think i'm going to do cross-country my dad goes smart smart he's like and i'm like why you know i'm thinking like you know here's a track coach why wouldn't he want to like me to do running and he was just like no no no stick with soccer He's like, it's way easier.

Like, track is just way too tough. And I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Like, track is a non-contact sport. Like, soccer, we're slide tackling, man. Like, do you even get it? And so he kept this narrative. Like, he was just like, and truly, like, even talking to him this day, he loved that I started with soccer because it didn't burn me out.

But he, like, was okay with me playing for as long as I wanted to, like, while still doing track. And so after I got cut, when I didn't cut, after I didn't make varsity, I was like, I'm going for track. Like, you know what? Like, here's my ticket to go to a D1 school or get a scholarship. And so I got like immediate success. I won cross country the first season I ran it, state title. And as a freshman. As a sophomore. And I was like, this is like, yeah, I love winning more than being mediocre at a sport that I might like more. And I mean, that was like that quote I told you on a run. One of my opinion, it's one of the most like misleading quotes or I just don't

buy into it where someone says find something you love and you'll never have to work another day again or you know find something you love and you'll be great right or something like that it's like no no no you find it's the other way around you find something you're great at that you're really good at and then you'll love it right and and i started winning's fun there you go at a young age it's feels good yeah feels great yeah you know i can't i can't tell anyone who just like loves having a participation trophy right i mean my name's getting written up in the newspaper colleges are sending mail to me i mean yeah was that fun or the not making varsity.

Dude, it was not fun. Girls did not come out to JV games. Right. They didn't watch JV games. Let me tell you that. So I, so yeah, so my dad was like telling me like,

you know, all these things like just stick with soccer, you know, running's too tough. So again, I knew my dad had running relationship in the sports somehow in some capacity. So the first newspaper article I got written up on, the first line, son of two-time Olympian

and former American record holder Matt Centruits. I go, the hell? I was like, dude, they got this wrong. Like, you know, they got the wrong guy, you know? And I might have probably, you know, he's probably out coaching. I probably showed my mom and she's like, yeah, like, your dad's done that or like, you know, done. And you didn't know that.

None of his accolades, none of his like memorabilia were up. Like, we had a wall unit of things and none of that was in there. And my mom likes to share this story where growing up even before like I was even playing sports. I was like super, super young at the time, like just born or something. Um, they used to have this UPS guy that would like, my mom was pregnant with like my younger sister. And this UPS guy was like super nice guy and he like visited often because my dad, um, being a track guy, always had shoes, running shoes being sent to the house. So we had this UPS guy coming weekly. And anytime like, you know, if my, if my main door was open in the glass door, he would see my mom like doing something,

he'd come in and bring the package in. Right. So he would do this like for a while. And he'd come in and sometimes my dad would be there or he'd finish a run and the guy would be like no no no you're stretching wrong or you should stretch more or like you know those giving him tips giving him tips and my mom would like watch my dad and my dad would just take it and he'd be like oh yeah thanks so much I really appreciate it never once said anything more than just like you know take it or like yeah that's great awesome thank you and this went on for freaking according to my mom months right like it was like a first name basis like Matt like you're doing that wrong blah blah blah so one One day, my mom was cleaning out the storage unit

and had some of my dad stuff up. So when 1980 Olympics got boycotted, they were all given like basically artificial gold medals. So my dad's got this Olympic gold medal that's, you know, I'll tell him it's fake. Yeah, it's not the real thing here. So he's got this artificial gold medal and it's a really cool thing, right?

Like they honored all the athletes that like obviously didn't participate and doing something for the greater good. So it was out and this guy comes in. And he's delivering the package and he looks over at the table. And my mom's in the kitchen. She, like, looks over because she, like, stops hearing him talk or something. And sees him literally look down.

Like, and you can tell, like, he was, like, shocked. Like, his jaw dropped. She said he put the package down, didn't say anything to her, walked out and never delivered another package to that house again. No way. I think he was so embarrassed. Yeah. He'd been given this Olympic runner.

I mean, for all I know, he could have got another job another time, but the timing of it, but never came back to the house. Hey, we're making our own narratives. But I'm talking about the story. I can only tell the story that my mom tells. Yeah, right. You know what I? Hey, listen, I was two years old, three years old, say, listen,

motherfucker, I don't know he's Olympian either. You know? So, yeah, you didn't find out until. So the newspaper article came out. It listed his accolades, his accomplishments. And I was like, what the hell, right? And I had no idea that my dad was like that big of a figure in the sport. Yeah.

And so he ended up, you know, I think what works so well, not just for our relationship, but for my development. He, like, had a really good, like, he took a step back and let me, like, just work with my high school coach. And then he took a little bit more of an role each year. And I remember my senior year. Like, my dad is like, if you think I'm loud and obnoxious and brash, my dad's like, I mean, he was born in Bronx. And I'm just a suburban Maryland kid. Right.

And, you know, he would show up to practice sometimes by my senior year when he knew that, all right, he needs to do a little more work. Like, I'm ready for it. Like, I'm ready for this. And he knew I was doing, like, okay, bullshit workouts. No offense. My high school coach is just, I need to do more elite stuff. And he'd show up to the workout. I'd be like, what'd you do?

And I'd be like, I did, you know, 5 by 300. He's like, that's not off. Put your flats back on. So I put my flats back on. And he goes, you know, he'd give me another workout. Like basically another workout on top of a workout. That made it an elite workout. Yeah.

All together. And my dad is this, like I said, I already told you, he's this big, you know, big personality. But he's like, whiteer than me. He's bald. And like, unless you actually looked at small little, like, characteristics and mannerisms of ours like you wouldn't you know you just don't think he's my father right yeah and so he gets out there and he's fucking barking at me arms like my my arms are always low

and arms arms all right through the line faster hurry up you know quick like pick up the jog everything i'm just getting every single second i'm getting barked at yeah and every high school kid on my team is just like what the fuck is going on here and this goes on for like the next like 10 minutes yeah and as soon as i finish the workout doesn't stick around. He goes, I'll see you at home and then walks away. And everyone comes over to me. And they're like, who the fuck was that? And sometimes if I was in a mood, I'd be like, I have no idea. I go, I have no idea. But over time, they like figured out that it was my dad. And he just had this presence about himself and this confidence that like, I didn't think twice, man. If he said I was

ready for something, I was ready for something. And then the last story I would say is, so I do this race. And it's funny because it was the regional leading up to the state. And in the state, was like a big thing for me. The senior year? My senior year. Yeah. I really wanted to break the state record and we had a gold number in mind. We had a 404 time that I wanted to hit.

And it was my dad that gave it to me. Is this for the mile? For the mile. Technically the 1600 for being politically correct here. Yeah, yeah. Which for people at home, that's nine meters less than a mile. A mile is 1,6009 meters. Oh, got you.

Okay. So like, so we just did four exact laps. Mm-hmm. And so 404 was like the goal all season. And my last test before, or the state meet, I was going to do this mile to qualify for the state meetings, the regionals. And my dad had a specific pace he wanted me to run. He wanted me to go out in 60 seconds, which is four flat, so a little faster than 404,

but then slow down to like, he wanted me run 65s, which is like, you know, 420 pace for the next two laps and then come back in a 60. So he had this, like to the key to the T. And I'm fucking 16 years old, man. Like I barely know, you know, like I know how to do it, but like give me a break, right? Yeah, yeah. So I go out there and I run. And just for people, that. would equate to a 410 60 65 60.

I go out there and I run 414. I go 61, 65, 66 and then like 61 or something like that. I'm talking each lap I missed it by second. I call him up and I know he's going to be disappointed. And I go, he goes, right away, would you run? And I go 414, boy, your splits. 61. What the fuck?

I told you. He goes, no, no, sorry, sorry. Let me back up. He goes, he goes, you want, so once he hears a splits, he goes, you want, you want coach or you want dad I want coach like I don't want coach but I know I got yeah got to hear what the fuck were you doing that's not 60 my say 60 you go out and six that's 60 one blah and he's dissecting this whole race I'm like I literally I don't have it on speaker I had the phone away from my ear as if it's on speaker and again by this point my whole team is like yeah we know

it's dad you know you know he and I won the race by the way by a whole straight away really doesn't matter though I was supposed to do that you know I didn't run the right pace yeah I'm like fuck man I knew this is coming right and I'm just like I knew it was like not gonna be good when I when I hit the splits but I didn't know it was gonna be this bad he's yelling at me he's barking at me he's like that's not how you're supposed to be doing you're not supposed to run that and again like I said I'm 16 like I professional runners sometimes can't get that right sound like that yeah yeah but he demanded that much and he expected that much he finishes his bark and he goes as dad love you can't wait to see when he get home and brought his tone down like that and so

once I got home it was like how to school like we made moved on. You know what I mean? So like we had this great balance. Like yeah, he yelled the shit out of me. You know what I mean? Like, and he demanded and wanted that much. And like I was thinking as a 16 year old already as a college runner.

So the time I got to U of O, I was way mentally than those guys. And the time I got to be as a professional, I was already thinking that way for years. Oh, that's such an advantage. Big time. I mean, and he exposed me to like those athletes that he coached, not just as college guys that I hung out with on the weekends. He'd drive me into practice and I'd hang out with these college guys in the dorms. and it was so much fun and I couldn't wait to get to college and like but these guys were running like like what would be in high school like unbelievable times but I had that college mindset like I wanted to break for in high school so it's fun but you're also picking picking or just that mindset up from them probably right 100% he he like dropped me off and let me hang with these guys and so I'm hanging as a 16 and 17 year old with 22 year olds and 20 year old guys and they're like talking track as of like top collegian guys and then he had his and then you mix in the pro.

runners of his, I was way ahead of like the high school guys I was racing against. Were they trying to help you? They, oh, for sure. They were trying to help me because if I ran better, that meant my dad would be nicer to them. If my dad showed up to a practice, like yelling at them, they knew I fucked up somewhere. No, seriously, even to say they're like, you knew, like Matthew, like, had done something. But you know what's funny, though, going back to that high school race, the next week I went to the state meet and I had a state record.

You could look it up 404.0. Nailed it. And I call my dad up after the race. So a lot of times he couldn't come to my race because he had his own. track meets with this college guys. I call him up after the race. I'm fucking pumped to call him up because, of course, I nailed it. And I was pumped.

State champion, right? Oh, yeah. Okay, it was Maryland. So it was easier to win states. But, like, I broke the state record. And I, like, I ran exactly what we wanted or, like, what I wanted to run. And I call him up. And I remember before he celebrated, I go, I go, hey, I won.

I ran 404. I ran 404. Like, he goes, he goes, before he goes, war were the tents. I go, point zero. He goes, great. Like he was like, it was like, but everyone knows 404.9 is different than 404 flat. Yes. You know what I mean?

And that's a big second. And I mean, like my splits were right on. And again, like that was, I mean, some people would be like, man, your dad was a hard ass. And like that, like, I'm sorry for you. But like, I love that I got that kick in the ass. Yeah. And like it's almost like the tiger thing. You know, you ever watched that documentary, the two part thing?

Yeah. You know, you look at his childhood. And like, there are definitely times that you're like, man, I feel bad for Tiger. Like, you know, I had a childhood. I'm not saying that. I didn't. But, like, Tiger, it seems like, you know, maybe he didn't have a childhood. You know, he was, like, demanded this much from his father and, and, you know, like, the way he was being pushed and this and that.

But there's no Tiger Woods without his dad doing that. And for me, it's like, there's no Olympic gold if I didn't have, like, all of those things throughout the years and had that bar set like that. And so I'm not sitting here being like, man, I wish had a nicer childhood and he was easier on me and, you know, this and that had more TLC and then still wanted this. Like, I know that doesn't come. without that. Right. You know what I mean? You get it.

At that time, when you were a kid, were you like, what the fuck? I don't know. Maybe I was just so immune to it. I was scared. Don't get me wrong.

Like, I was dreading those calls sometimes. Like, I'm not going to sit here and be like, oh, here we go. Like, I was like, you know, I was disappointed.

Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, damn right. He, I mean, he had, oh, man, I could go on stories. I mean, luckily he's not college, he's not coaching college anymore,

but he could have got fired years ago in this type of climate. You know, Oh, he had this presence about himself that he could walk into a room. The best character that I've ever seen on TV that I can relate my dad to, Tony Soprano. Really? Tony Soprano, there's so many scenes where Tony will say something. Sorry, sorry, sorry, he won't say anything.

You know you messed up and he would just look at a guy and he's got heavy breathing. He'll go, and that, you don't need to say anything. And my dad would bite his lip. And he would like, you could tell he was about to erupt. Yeah. And when you're like a little bit calmer before it, you're like, oh shit. And sorry, the last story I'll go on about my dad of like just like the presence and like the type of guy he was. I was in high school, but I was a sophomore at this time.

And he was pulling me out of school early to go do this to go do this workout with another top high schooler in the state. And he was like, it was post, it was post state. So like we're getting ready for a national cross. country meet and it was like I was like pretty pumped about it because it was like my first national cross country meet as a high schooler and it was report card day and I was always one of those guys that like mostly A's a few Bs and always sprinkle that one or two C in there you know what I mean that was just me yeah that was the type of student I was and he's taking me out of school early and luckily report card day was always one of those like you know bullshit days were like you weren't doing much

half day so he's taking me up he's taking me out and my dad always had used cars old used cars like He had a Mazda protege. And this thing had like 300,000 miles on it. And he picks me up. And he knew his report card day. Like, of course, I told him, like, you know, he knew it was coming up. And I get in the car. And I'm just like, you know, of course, I got my head down a little bit.

And I'm a little scared. And he's driving out of the, we're not out of the parking line, but we're starting to drive out of the parking line. He goes, how's a report card? Like, would you get? Like, and I go, I was like, you know, about to answer. And he goes, and he sees, like before I can answer. And I go, I go, no.

no C's. And he goes, he goes, great, great, great, awesome, great job, son. You know, we're driving out,

still in the parking lot. You got a D? And I go, but I got one D. And I say that. And he laughs, like thinking I'm fucking with him. Uh-oh.

And he looks over at me and he can tell I'm not joking. He puts that shit in park real quick, slams on the brakes, we're still in the parking lot, takes his fist, smashes his dashboard.

That clock that he had, busted out. And I mean, like I told you, it was an old car. Yeah. It spit out to the back seat and I snapped my head. Like, if that was me, I was dead. And he goes, are you shitting me? And the car is rocking of him just like, you know, moving his arms.

We drive back to the house. He doesn't say anything. We drive fast back to the house. It's the fall. It's cross-country season. It's November. He goes, it leaves her on the ground, leaves her in the, the yard. He goes,

rake all these leaves and he got the trash bags. He's got the bins and put him in the bins and break him up and put him in the bags. And he goes inside. He's collecting himself, I'm fucking raking. I'm, you know, this and that. I'm putting him in the bags and I'm, you know, I got most of the yard complete. He comes out.

And he looks at the yard and he takes the bag and rips it open, spreads it ever. Takes the leaves. The bin. And he's dumping the bin either probably on me and on the thing. And he goes, do it again. He goes, you better get used to this shit because this is what you're going to be doing for a living. And I'm, at this point, we live in a nice residential area.

People are like, like moms and parents are looking out their bay windows, closing the windows. And they're like, ah, Matt's at it again. No, it was like that. But they were like concerned. Yeah. And he's like, I'm going to fulfill my obligation. And he drove over to the track practice to go time the other kid I was supposed to work out with. He's like, I'm doing my end of the deal.

You didn't keep up your end of the deal with your, with my poor card. And I mean, he wasn't wrong. Like, you know, and so he didn't let me run nationals that year. I didn't race. Really? And you know what's really funny is my mom was always the academic one. My mom always like, I don't care about this running thing. You make sure you have good grades.

And my dad, you know, being a track coach was just like, you know, I see whatever. What was your splits? You know, right? And that time, I think, like, we talk about this obviously to this day and we look back. And, of course, we're fucking joking and laughing about it. My mom was like, I wanted you to run. She was like, I was pissed at you to run. I was like, you know, thinking like,

Like, you know, scholarships and opportunities that you could have. And my dad was just so adamant about that. And so that was a good lesson. Yeah, sent a message to you. Oh, my God, dude. Yeah. I wish I could say I never got to see you to this day. But I never got to D yet.

That's last D. Last D. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, dads, it's like, you know, you want to push your kids, especially you being an elite. But I mean, any, like a normal dad like me, I still, I can get that mindset because I do remember, I remember I came home from work one time and True.

He was running cross country, but he was at home. And I'm like, why are you home? And he's like, I was feeling sick. I said, so you didn't go to practice? He's like, no, I was feeling sick. I'm like, okay, get your shoes. We're going to Piscca. So I took him over to Piscata.

It was raining. We did 10 miles. So it's probably not, but he never missed another practice after that. He was never sick again. He's like, fuck. This is worse in practice. Dude, 100%. He's like, sent the message like, hey, yeah, you're not missing a day.

And so I do get that part. I mean, you were like a special case too because of your talent. But dads, they want to push their, especially sons. I'm the only son. I mean, life is competitive. So if you can't fucking step up when you're young, you're sure of shit, not going to step up when you're old. Yeah. You got to learn that mindset.

So, I mean, I do respect that of your dad. You had another one too. I think we're didn't a college or was it a recruit called? And he asked him what. Yes, yes. Yeah. I got to hear that one. When I told you he had the state records like that, I'll come back to that stuff.

So, I might have just blown the story right there, but no. So my dad, you know, we were talking, you and I yesterday just about like transparency. And I was like, you're going to get, you know, what you get with my dad right from the getgo, you always get. Like he doesn't try disguise and be anyone that he's not. And, you know, a lot of times, you know, maybe a college coach is recruiting you and they put on a different persona, you know, and like being a little more likable, gets you in. And then all of a sudden you show up and you're like, what the hell like what I get myself into? Yeah. My dad, from the day he calls you to like the day you graduate, same guy, you know.

And a story on that is I'm sitting in his office and like, you know, like every weekend or, you know, going into, going into D.C., he coached at American University. And being a New York guy, he loved recruiting kids from the Northeast. He just, you know, one, he could relate to them. Two, he just found to the Northeast kids were a little bit tougher than some of the Southern kids. Yeah, yeah. And but then probably even more so, they related to him. You know what I mean? Like my dad obviously a very peculiar guy, like a specific type of guy that like, you know,

a Southern boy or Southern Bell might not like be able to. Yeah. You said it on me. Soft in the sun all the time. Or a Cali kid. That's probably the soft and soft. But anyways. So he's calling this kid and it was a really good kid.

Like he was probably would have been one of the best guys that my dad would have gotten. So he calls this kid up like he doesn't. every week and, you know, doing the, doing the rotation, doing the calls, and he gets on the phone with this kid. And I forgot the kid's name is, but let's just say it's Kevin. Kevin, how's it going, man? Like, you know, how's the season going? How are you doing?

Blah, blah, blah. Kids like, yeah, man, great, great. Yeah, training's going really well. You know, I'm definitely in really, really good shape. And I think I'm going to give a crack at the New York State record. But that goes, that's fantastic, Kevin. That's awesome. What is that record by chance, you know?

And he's like, you know, I think it's like 404, I think maybe like 403. And before he could even finish that three, my dad goes, no, you know what it is? It's 402.7. And you know how I know? Because it's my state record. And he hangs up, doesn't wait for anything. And I'm sitting there going like, I'm blinking my eyes like, dude, you had this kid on the ropes, man.

Like you had him. And he was like, he'll call back. Yeah. And but like that's the type of guy he was. And it was so funny because. And I truly believe this. To this day, no one has broken that state record. And my dad had that back in the 60s.

Wow. Or early 70s, sorry. And for me, I'll be honest with you. I have a state record in Maryland. I don't want anyone to break it. I've had other records that have been broken. Like my Oregon one, I was pissed. You know, like, he truly wants his record to be broken.

He's like, I've had it long enough. It's time for a kid. And it's kind of crazy because high school kids are on another level right now. And New York is a massive state of like great talent. Right. And they've had so many kids over the years that went on to do unbelievable things. And yet my dad's record. Still haven't broke that record. Still haven't broken it, which is like, I mean, I selfishly, I love seeing his, his record still there, which reminds me kind of another story here. Yeah. But he really wants that. He, like, he really wants to see like another kid breaking and take it down. He's like, it's time.

It's amazing, though. I mean, to have that time must be special. Oh, for sure. For this long. For sure, but speaking of names and records. So I come out to, I come out to the University of Oregon. And, I mean, to be honest, the records never really, like, matter to me. Medals and winning was more important to me. And I always felt like the times would come. So I ended up, I am breaking the University of Oregon 1500 meter school record. That's a big one.

Who had it? So, I mean, all these greats have had it over the years, like Pre Fontaine, like I can go on all the list. So the guy, so the guy I'm on a list is the guy I took it from, but Joaquin Cruz. So Joaquin Cruz is an Olympic champion. His school record in the 800 is like literally within a second of the world record.

Like no one's touching that. Right. Up in the tower at U of O, like we have a, he has a floor. I have a floor. Like he's just like, I mean, I would probably name my son Joaquin, not just directly after him, but like it's just this guy is a legend. Right. So he's got the school record, which I didn't even know.

what it was probably at the time and I break it. So he had the school record and I didn't realize who he broke it from, but he calls my dad up and he goes, Matt and my dad's like, yeah, who is this? My dad never saved number. He goes, it's Joaquin. It's Joaquin. My dad goes, oh, shit, great hearing from you. Jo, what's going on?

He goes, I got to tell you, man, like when I broke your school record, I never thought Matt Centuitz would break that school. record again. And he goes, I never thought another Matt Central to break that school record again. And my dad loves that he named me Matthew as well. Right. Because whether it's me or him, you know, it's like his school record. When I broke that Matt Central school record, I never thought a Matt Central would come back again. And so, and so it was, it was a Joaquin cruise sandwich. And it was, I mean, it's just an honor. Like, I mean, that guy, again, is like one of the, the few athletes that I for sure look up to and, you know, has an unbelievable stride and just.

Oh, man. Is that the difference, do you think, like, in running? Is that do you guys look at stride length? Because to me, like, if you look at somebody running, they look like they're running comfortable, slow mile, but then you look at the time and you're like, holy shit, is that that stride length and you're just eating up more ground and to do it more comfortably?

Do you look at that distance ever? I don't know if people do that. Yeah, you know, it's funny because a lot of the Africans are pretty short. Like, they could be like five, five. you know and but they have long legs right they're all legs short body long legs short bit yeah for sprinting though you want short legs that's why like you same bolt was such like anomaly right which was like kind of weird yeah and he massive dude and so like he was defying all odds but yeah like you know I can find in any event in track and field like a great athlete that either was really tall and had

a long stride and someone who's probably shorter with like a shorter stride so I'm sure there's been done a lot of research of like what's more ideal and what would help but like I'll tell you one thing it doesn't matter if it's a long strata or short they're all so efficient they look so yeah their upper body's not even moving you know what I mean like we're not swaying in your final what you know we watched it last night again I showed the girls but you're like you're like you're like a thousand of those million views yeah probably but you're you're like uh I mean your head's not even moving you know what I mean you look so smooth your head barely moves and it's just like and you're flying that was coming down the

backstretch. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just like you say efficient, smooth, whatever, smooth is fast, people say. But yeah, I mean, to your point. I really wish and I hope they do this one day where every Olympic event, specifically track and field, but honestly, any event, swimming, gymnastics, you take, I don't want to say a couch potato, but like you take an average athlete and you throw them in one of these races so you can actually

see like how fast and how good some of these athletes are because I'll look back you know one of the 10 times I've seen that race and it's funny to me because like it's the world's best there we're all sort of efficient you know maybe I'm a little more efficient or maybe a little bit less than certain athletes but we're all pretty efficient and you just don't you can't tell about that turnover until like the right camera angle will show like you know but most of the camera angles it's like you don't even see the pickup right and like I compare it to like I've been to I've been lucky enough to have been court side to some basketball games, these NBA games. And you watch it on TV, they don't look tall.

Right. You know, they're not moving that fast. And you're there in person and they get up to you and you're like, holy shit. Like Steph Curry looks small. I'd like six two. Yeah. I'd kill it to be six two. I mean, he looks short as hell.

Yeah, he does. He looks tiny out there. I mean, you know, a guy like our size out there is like come up to their kneecaps. Yeah. But they move so quick for their size. Right. Right. So perspective is kind of lost.

I think like it kind of like shows, in my opinion, I'm just being selfish here. Like I wish like, you know, you have like an average show in every event, every Olympic event. Yeah. And you're like, hey, this guy's good.

Like this guy runs a five minute mile. Right. But watch him get his doors blown up. Yeah. You know. It would give that. And I just thinking about that when you're saying like, you know, we're watching the race and you're so efficient.

It's like so a lot of these guys are though. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's definitely a huge compliment when when people like, you know, say that in a race like that, you know, because obviously, you know, the best of the best of there. Yeah, your dad would be happy. You're moving your arms good, too.

It's all this. You're in the last year. You're in the last year. Arms, arms. Arms. Fucking amen. Oh. So we'll have to get a good soundbite here. Have you ever noticed any, like, there's some track girls that are pretty, kind of pretty? I've been told. No. It's, isn't that crazy? Like, I watch some of these, these girls on TV, and you're like, I'm trying to think of who it is. Like some of these girls, they look like supermodels, but they're running these incredible times. It's like, you got to have it all? Yeah, yeah. You got to have the looks and everything.

I've seen rappers and like, specifically rappers, but I've seen like NBA players and stuff. And they'll say like the most attractive females are track and field athletes. Yeah. Like they'll say like got the best bodies, you know. There's that one girl like I think she went to Harvard, runs a 200 maybe, Gabby Thomas. Yep. Is that her name? Yep.

But you're just like, and looks like a supermodel? Yeah. Like, no, they're out there. They're out there. You know, I don't know how many times over the years, especially in college, where we'll get on these debates on these runs on like, all right, guys, your top five hottest events that girls are in. Fuck, Mary Kill. Let's see. Like, pole vaulters are always in the top five.

Yeah. Like, the pole vultures, like, have, like, some of the best bodies for sure. They're kind of tall. Eighthundreds are. pretty good event in like the four like it's like right on the bubble you know like you don't go to the marathon muscular too low yeah but no track and field man they got like some of the most attractive women on the planet for sure i mean like you know the girls back in the day used to date all the famous guy like the flojo and um i'm blanking on some names but like a lot of top sprinters

like they're always like you know um like dating a football player or or like you know and so um but yeah track girls great reputation great reputation great uniforms too now i'm many track girl groupies, unfortunately. Just Travis waiting for me at the end of the, at the end of the races. You don't have groupies waiting for Centro? Maybe I did back in the day. No panties or bras thrown at you. I got the blinders on now.

Back then for sure. Oh, back then for sure. Now I've got to throw them right back at him. Hey, I'm a taken man. Yeah, yeah. Get some clothes on. Come on. This is a public place.

Show some respect. This is kid friendly. You wear these? Yeah. Oh, now I got my bow. I can flip. Oh, nice. I can shoot them right back.

Yeah. So tell me what was your thoughts on the lift room shoot day just in a nutshell. Okay. First and foremost, like so much fun. Yeah. So much fun. We had a great time. I mean, you know, I like to think that you know that I'm a very honest and open and transparent person by now.

When I came into this, I didn't know what to expect. I was like, dude, I've never shot a bow before. Because when we connected in Eugene last year, you're like, you know, you're talking to me about it. And you're like, wait, you. You've never shot one before. For some reason, you're like, I thought you have. I'm like, you're confusing me with Aisha and Emma. Right, right.

And I was like, no, dude, I have no experience. And you're like, fuck, man, we got to get you out here. So I'm thinking like, shit. Like, I have no experience. Like, obviously, I know it looks easier than it really is. But I just didn't know what to expect. Like, one, and I also didn't know how fun it would be. You know, and like the type of like release you get, you know, from from shooting.

And so, so that was first and foremost. But the way we went about our day, It was great because we could start off in my realm, you know, with a run. Right. You know, make me feel comfortable. Make me feel good. Yeah. Kill me.

You tore me down. Yeah. Exactly. Let me start off with the first punch. Yeah. And then, and then we went in and got fitted. And dude, Wayne, shout out to Wayne. Just unbelievable guy.

Hurd bull. Dude, he is phenomenal. He was a great teacher, even though in the videos will show you showing me. Yeah. I'll take all the shine. You'll take the credit. But, yeah, no. Shout out to Wayne for opening up his shop.

And his home, because then we went out to the farm. Of course. And shout out to his son, who's a great steeple chaser. I know. By the way, at Portland State back in the day. So, but no, so he, you know, he was such a great instructor that, like, I don't think, I'm not taking any credit. I don't think of anything was on me. It was just like I was able to get it down pretty quick.

You did great. And so then, you know, after the indoor shooting, we had to take it to the real range and went out there and I popped a couple balloons on the first two tries. That was awesome. Anyone listening? You're going to have to check out the videos on that because that's going to be some sick footage that we got. Oh, I know. Looking for it got there.

But it was good, man. It was great. I feel really comfortable even just after one day of shooting with the bow and being in Park City right now. Like, stay away. Yeah, those deer better. Yeah, be looking over the shoulder. Dude, I got the perfect property to us. I mean, you got to come out.

Yeah, I'd love to. Come out, run, maybe kill a few deer. We'll do one of the run shoot out there. Run love shoot. Yeah. And I'll have my podcast up by then. Oh, I'm telling you,

you're built for this. Yeah, we'll see. And people listening in will know, like the stories, you're just so good at telling stories. I did want to touch real quick on, is there track fans?

Is there a podcast that they can listen to to get the insight on track? Or it's like, because I want attention on you guys and what you do. Yeah. And it's like, is there any good ones out there right now? So there are plenty.

In terms of good ones, I'm not going to shit on everyone that I don't mention because I just haven't listened to many of them. But a couple of my friends have this podcast. I think it's called Sidious Mag. But it's like something along the lines of Sidious. That's like the name of, I think it might have been their magazine at first, but now it's their podcast. But those guys are very knowledgeable. They cover all events and they have really cool guests on there.

So I would say start with Sidious Mag for sure. What's our names? Do you remember? Yeah, Kyle Murber and Chris Chavez. Oh, yeah, yeah. Chris, yeah. No, we were messaging. We were going to try to get to.

together because I mean he just knows I'm a track fan yeah but at the world meet I think we're gonna we never ended up connecting but yeah seems they got Michael they got Michael Johnson on there they've had some really good um um track and field athletes over over the years like hop on there but they're just like I mean again I don't want to like sound too like they're making the sport better but like they're they're like putting a good spin on the sport in the way they're like you know um the angle that they're coming out yeah with it they have like a weekly newsletter um Kyle does and yeah just the interviews and the broadcast that they've had. The social media is good.

They're great. They're great. And so they're doing a really nice thing. So I would definitely start and recommend that one for sure. So until you get yours going, that's the one. There we go. Exactly. Well, here's how I'm in these podcasts.

Okay. So obviously you're an outlier, probably the biggest outlier I've ever had, Olympic gold medalist, but I'd like to share the gift of archery with outliers. and here's your bow, the one that you killed it with yesterday. This is. It's been an honor. Thank you so much. To share what I do with you.

Thank you. Yeah. No, this was, like I said, this was more than I definitely anticipated. You know, even just, we didn't even touch on the lift. We didn't even get into that. But, no, this is a totally different new world. And at my age, this is something that, like, really excites me. And, yeah, hopefully, I know where this is, this bow is going to take me.

But right now I feel super comfortable with it. And this is the Ferrari of Bose, Wayne was saying. So this is a huge and a special gift. So I really appreciate it. It won't be hanging up anywhere in my game room. It's going to be like ready to go on the front deck. Hey, I need a singlet here, a Citroit singlet. You got it.

Yeah, we need to put that up here in my gym so I can, I mean, you've been an inspiration. I love to watch. I love your attitude. I love your winning mindset. I love what you bring, the spirit you bring to track. And just spending time with you, just kind of reinforced what I already thought about you. So thank you very much. It's like, it's a huge honor for me.

No, I appreciate it. Well, the feelings are mutual. So I was just going to say when you come out to Park City, we'll, well, I was going to say like actually with at first when I was like slapping the right before I got that on there, I was thinking like how long do you think it will take for me to like move up? because I want to just touch real brief on you had a 90, what was it, a 90 pound? My boat. What's it called a drawback? Draw weight. Draw weight.

Yeah. And, you know, if you told me it was a double that, I wouldn't know the difference. That's why I tried it. But right now, I probably have, what, a 10 pound draw weight? No, I don't know. It's 40s. Okay, there we go. Yeah.

But it's a new movement. It's like everybody's starting off. They've got to learn the technique. Yeah. So how often do you think I would start to like, or how quickly would you think I'm going to progress not to like getting up to 90 but like when do you think I'll graduate like the 40 yeah it it goes pretty quick once you start doing it your body responds you know in training yeah you know your body it's going to give what you ask of it you just haven't asked your body to do this type

of movement yeah so once you start doing it your body will respond and it'll go quick gotcha i mean you're an athlete your your body's used to being yeah tested in different ways so you just haven't done it but once you start shooting every day a few arrows or you know at least every week it's going to go quick. Because the way you're talking about framing my singlet, I'm going to be framing this one when I'm moving on to the next one. Oh, that's awesome. And then I'll have to get you to sign it and we'll have to get a picture together with something up on there. I'd love that. But yeah, singlet coming your way, no doubt. Absolutely. For sure, at least I could do. Thank you, Matthew. It's been, it's been an honor and I really appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

All right. Keep hammering. Thanks, ma'am. All right, guys, listen up. For years, we've been talking about doing a lift run shoot event and we're finally making it happen. I've teamed up with my friends over a mountain ops to create an exclusive VIP experience where you get the opportunity to come out to Oregon and live and breathe through my mantra of lift, run, shoot. We will run through a beast mode workout, hit the hills of Piscay and wrap it up shooting bows over at the Indicot Farms. This is a perfect event for new hunters or someone who has been wanting to get into bow hunting for a very long time. We want to give you the tools to take your bow into the field. and be successful.

Slots are filling up fast. If you guys want to join me in Oregon at the end of July, go to Mountainops.com to secure your spot. Hoyt archery has been my bow hunting sponsor since 2005. And personally, I really don't care what bow you shoot, what brand it is. I just hope that you have the same level of confidence in your equipment as I have in mine.

Because I know if I get one opportunity with my Hoyt, it's going to pay off.