Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 022 - Nick Bare

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

Founder of Bare Performance Nutrition, hybrid athlete, author and US Army Veteran. Nick Bare does it all. Listen to Nick’s tips on running a business from the ground up, fitness goals, advice and experiences. Hope you enjoy this inspiring and insightful conversation.    Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Nick: https://www.instagram.com/nickbarefitness/ https://www.bareperformancenutrition.com/ https://www.facebook.com/nickbarefitness/   Thank you to our sponsors: Santa Cruz Medicinals: https://scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off Keytone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Black Buffalo: https://blackbuffalo.com/discount/CAM use code CAM for 15% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping First Light: https://www.firstlight.farm/ Use Code Cam15 for 15% off your first order Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com   Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro 0:04:18 How did Nick Bare become Nick Bare? 0:12:06 Early business speed bumps  0:14:09 Eating disorder struggles 0:21:21 Best diet for endurance  0:27:00 Advice for new dieters  0:35:51 Hometown haters 0:43:00 Evolution of BPN 0:49:40 Learning from a hardworking family 0:55:00 Refining BPN over the years  0:57:47 Scaling BPN  1:04:50 Brand, the product, the people 1:08:11 Power of social media and connecting people 1:14:30 Future for Nick and BPN 1:16:43 Working on “being present” 1:22:30 Potential is a sliding scale 1:25:00 Inspiring others   #keephammering  

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They're offering followers of the podcast 20% off on your first purchase to the coffee club or order on their site using code Keep Hammering to get America's Coffee Today. All right, guys, listen up. For years, we've been talking about doing a lift-run shoot event and we're finally making it happen. I've teamed up with my friends over a mountain ops to create an exclusive VIP experience where you get the opportunity to come out to Oregon and live and bring. breathe through my mantra of lift run shoot. We will run through a beast mode workout, hit the hills of Piscay and wrap it up shooting bows over at the Indicot Farms. This is a perfect event for new hunters

or someone who has been wanting to get into bow hunting for a very long time. We want to give you the tools to take your bow into the field and be successful. Slots are filling up fast. If you guys want to join me in Oregon at the end of July, go to Mountainops.com to secure your spot. lot. We're here, the keep with Nick Bear. How you doing? I'm great.

It's been a good day. It's been a great day. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm doing excellent right now. We've had a big day. So Nick came in. We had one day to make this happen.

We got our lift, run, shoot done, and now we're getting the podcast done. And, dude, you've been like one of my most requested guests. I mean, people have been saying, when's Nick coming on, when Nick Bear coming on, let's see you guys train. And so we made it happen. You know, we linked up that one time in Austin. It was quick.

Yeah. And there was a segment of us running in a YouTube video I put out there, but it was like 60 seconds of a YouTube video. Right. That's all we got done that one day. Yeah. But I'm glad we were able to make. make something bigger happen.

Yeah, no, it's, I mean, I'm just, I'm just happier here. I'm happy I could share the day with you because I've been watching from afar. I've been a follower for a while. And getting down there to Austin when my book came out was cool. And you had me on your podcast and it meant a lot because it did reach a lot of people like in a different, I don't know, a different crowd than follow me. It's a lot of hunters for me. You have a lot of fitness people. And so it was cool to share my story with your followers.

And it was awesome. I appreciated it. So wanted to get you here. And I think we made the most of it today. We got a lot done. I mean, we logged 20 miles in the morning, went shooting, shot the balloon. Yeah. From psyched about.

100 yards. Yeah, that's not easy. But, no, it was an epic day. Yeah. I was telling you earlier, me and Steph have been talking about. like our next chapter and phase of life. And I need a hobby. I want something to do.

And when I met Steph, she was a bow hunter. Right. And she has a history of bow hunting. And it's something I always said I wanted to get into at some point. But today kind of facilitated that. And solidified that want and need desire, right? Yeah.

I mean, when I hit that balloon, I was hooked like I was telling you. Yeah. No, it was. Yeah. Because we've been out there for a little while, beautiful day in the sun. And there's something about when you can see that visual, the balloon popping. And it's from an arrow you released, it's like, man, it's hard not to be pumped.

Well, it kind of made me think of, and I had this bodybuilding show a few weeks ago. And when I got on stage, I didn't expect this to happen. But this rush of adrenaline came over me. You know, like there's moments in your life. There's things that you do where you get this rush of adrenaline that you didn't expect, but it wakes you up. Right. And you're submerged in that moment. I didn't expect it going into that bodybuilding show a few weeks ago.

But when I stepped on stage, I had this experience and this feeling. Same exact feeling when I hit that balloon today. Awesome. You don't know what's coming. You don't expect it. And then it happens. And it's like adrenaline and dopamine just drops. your blood.

Yeah. It was a good feeling. Oh, it was great. I was as pumped as you. That's so fun. Speaking of your bodybuilding show, does this shirt look too big on me or too jacked? It's like that's a perfect.

It's like from the baby gap. I mean, that's, that's what Tanner just says. If you don't have to be functional for the moment and you're just sitting down, baby gap size is like an appropriate size. Okay. Okay.

Well, supposedly I have to wear it because it's probably a sponsor shirt. So Rihanna's making me. It was kind of funny. That is black rifle. That's kind of odd. So we talked about your next phase of life you mentioned in the recent bodybuilding show. But I want to hear about how did Nick Bear become Nick Bear?

I mean, how did you go from a kid from Pennsylvania to this whole journey? And now it's like Bear Performance Nutrition, that's a multi-million dollar company. How does that happen? So I was going to school in Western Pennsylvania, studying nutrition. This was 2009 when I started going to school. Okay. What sparked my interest in studying and learning more about nutrition is when I was 14 years old, I had a severe eating disorder. Had me hospitalized.

I was starving myself. Nearly killed me. And then as I kind of built healthy relationships with food again after that eating disorder, I fell in love with fitness. and training and supplementation and nutrition. And that's what drove me to study nutrition in school. And I was also on an Army ROTC scholarship at the time. So I knew immediately upon graduating from college,

I was going active duty army. And what's interesting is between my junior and senior year of school, the Military Associated Bank, USAA, offers what they call a pre-commissioning loan. So cadets who are going to commission the Army as officers, they knew we were going to have a locked-in salary upon graduating, and we could take up to $25,000 out, super low interest rate. It was like 1%.

You didn't make any payments for 18 months. So all my friends were taking out this loan. They're buying engagement rings. They're going on vacation. They're buying new cars. I was like, this is my investments. It's like, this is my golden ticket. This is how I'm going to start my business.

And, you know, up until that point, I was actually making my own supplements in my dorm room. So I'd buy these ingredients in bulk. I'd weigh them out on a food scale. I'd sell them the friends in my dorm. So if you walked into my college dorm, I looked like a drug dealer. Yeah. White powder everywhere.

I got a scale. People are coming to my dorm. I'm handing them baggie. It gave me five bucks. But that loan was the opportunity for me to find a manufacturer and then start my company. And I told my dad I was going to make a million dollars that first year. Yeah.

I ended up making $20,000. Just short. Just short. But you made money. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I made money, but it was 50% off discounts to friends and family. Right.

You know, I knew this loan payment was coming up here shortly. And I'll never forget the day when I told my dad I was going to make a million dollars. And he said, Nick, if it was that easy, everyone would do it. Mm-hmm. I said, I'm going to prove you wrong. So year one, $20,000 in revenue. Year two, about $20,000 in revenue. Year three, about $20,000 in revenue.

And now in our headquarters, I have plastered in the wall. If it were that easy, everyone would do it, which I'm sure you can relate to. Yep. So I start this company. I graduate college. I go into the Army in Fort Benning, Georgia for a year. Was it called bare performance nutrition? Yeah, it's called bear performance nutrition.

Yeah, I remember sitting in my college dorm room trying to think of a name. I had this list. I was going through all these things, and nothing was sticking. And I was like, you know what? My last name, Bear, kind of works well for supplements, natural, clean, minimal. Bear Performance Nutrition, BPN. Let's roll with that. Yeah, it's got a good ring to it.

Yeah, so I rolled with that and graduated college and I ended up in Fort Benning, Georgia for a year of training. And then I got stationed in Texas. And we're at the Texas. It was 2014. This is actually when I started creating content for social media. So, you know, a lot of people that build. social media brands. They build a brand, personal brand, and then it's, well, how do I monetize?

Right. I did it the other way around. I built a brand, realized it wasn't making money, and I thought, how do I build a community and monetize this business, grow it? So I started documenting my life on social media and sharing my experience in the Army and training, nutrition, and building a business, and bootstrapping it. And these platforms slowly started to grow organically. So it's 2014.

fitness industry was completely different than it is today. And from that point until today, I've been creating content, sharing my story, building a community, sharing training experiences for triathlons and Ironmans and ultras and marathons and bodybuilding shows, you know. And to get to this point, it was a lot of work. Right. There was a lot of work.

It was very difficult. There were a lot of losses. there were some wins, a lot of failures. But if I look back, 2012 to now coming up on 11 years of building this business, it went fast and it feels like it was yesterday. And I always look back to 2017. 2017 was the year I transitioned out of the Army. It was a year I went all in on BPN, full-time entrepreneur.

There were three of us at that point, me, my brother, my friend Joe. He's still with the business today. 2017 was the most exciting year of my life. It was the hardest year of my life. Cash flow was a nightmare. Couldn't sleep because I was maxed out on stress. But every single day felt like Christmas. And that's the year I realized I'm doing what I'm meant to be doing.

This is where a lot of my passion and purposes at. So over the last couple years, my content has shifted, You know, I started the business as performance training and strength training and bodybuilding. And kind of that's where I found my love of fitness. And then in 2018, I discovered endurance. I signed up for my first couple of marathons, then an Iron Man, then these ultras. And my last marathon was this past May. And just documenting that process and sharing that journey is connected with a lot of people.

And it's helped a lot of people reach their goals. And being authentic and vulnerable and real. And in sharing this process has brought a lot of people into the fold. And I'm grateful for the opportunities that we've created through that hard work and struggle. But that's how I got to where I'm at today. It's over a decade in the making. But it's been a crazy fun journey. What's been the biggest challenge of that?

because everybody sees how you're doing now and you got this brand, you're getting close to a million followers on Instagram. You're, you know, when people say, you know, oh,

who you haven't on a podcast next night? I'm like, Nick Berry's like this fitness guy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know him. So now it seems all good, right?

What was the hardest part of that 11 year journey? I mean, there's a lot. But if I think about one, one thing that I, I learned that I think other people can implement into their life. It's, you know, you get started with this, this passion project, this, this purpose, this idea of what you want to create and how you want to create it.

And it's really true and authentic to yourself. And the longer you do it and you start achieving some wins and some success, it's really easy to be guided in the wrong direction. You know, these white rabbits pop up left. and right and here and there and it's easy to chase them. I mean guided or just naturally go that way? Naturally go that way. You know, say you get started in, you see another crater that is following certain trends

and it's working for them. It's really easy to follow that way. Or you see another business following a blueprint and it's working for them and it's really easy to try to implement that blueprint into your business thinking it's going to recreate the same results. But if you can set your trajectory. and you're really honest with yourself about who you are and who you want to serve

and how you want to serve them and what you want to create and what makes you unique and special and you stay on that path and that's one of the most difficult things to do but it's the most rewarding thing and you know over this last decade plus there have been things where I've felt the need to chase

or recreate that someone else has been doing that has led them to success but every time I've tried to chase those things or objectives or strategies, it's been a dead end. And sometimes you just have to trust your gut. Your gut is your guiding light for where you want to go. But being authentic and real and honest with yourself throughout the journey, it's tough, but it's essential.

Yeah. No, that's good advice. And I think, you know, that seeing what other people do and you're like, you're trying to get that mark of success, which is, you know, a post is popular or getting the engagement you want. You see that they did it. It is probably difficult for a lot of people to say, I need to try that. Then you see a lot of, I mean, there's nothing as good as the first version, and there's

nothing authentic when you're copying somebody, right? And so it's, I get what you're saying there. And I see a lot of people make that same mistake also. I was curious, you know, you started that a few minutes. Miniscoe mentioning you had an eating disorder. So what was what you hear about girls having eating disorders, but I think more people than might realize there are guys that have it too or young men. So what was that?

What was that with you? I think the older I get, the more curious I become of why I actually had an eating disorder when I was younger. growing up I never thought I was overweight I didn't necessarily want to lose weight and this is probably something that I should talk to a therapist or a specialist about because I'm actually curious what was it in my life that triggered these thoughts or feelings to starve myself because that's what I was doing I was starving myself you thought you were overweight I didn't think I was overweight but what I think it was is I wanted to control an aspect of my life oh and be in complete control right and then this is just

just like a thought. I'm not really sure. But if I look back to when I was 14 and I started just restricting food more and more and more, it was this fulfillment I got out of the control. Yeah. Of what I was putting in my body, how much weight I was losing, how weak I started to feel. And I kind of fell in love with that feeling. And I got super weak.

very, very weak. And my parents, I remember it like it was yesterday, they would pick me up at school and they'd drive me to the Hershey Medical Center and we'd do all these tests and doctors were trying to figure out what was going on with me. And you weren't telling them that you weren't eating?

Oh, no. Right. You can get really creative in ways to hide this from people. Which is, it's interesting now that I've had that experience. I'm pretty good at identifying when people have unhealthy relationships with foods or eating disorders.

It's pretty obvious to some of the signs. My parents would pick me up at school, take me the doctors. The doctors would run all these tests. They thought I was, I had celiacs disease.

They thought I had a stomach ulcer. They thought I picked up a worm and a recent vacation overseas. Trying to figure out what was going on. I was doing all these tests. And I knew deep down I was starving myself. And I just kept going along with it. I just played the game.

And this went on for months. months and I got so weak to the point where I couldn't even get out of bed to go to school anymore. I was probably consuming maybe 500 calories a day. And I remember the last trip we made at the Hershey Medical Center, we pull into the outpatient clinic. And we pull up to this building and it says eating disorder clinic. And I was like, oh, fuck. It figured me out. It figured me out.

Yeah. My mom walks me up these stairs and this doctor confronts. me and that was all I needed. I just needed someone to catch me. Right. And I remember coming home from that appointment, telling myself, okay, you got to, you got to start eating more. And I went into our pantry and I pulled out this box of Pop-Tarts and I flip it around and

it says 400 calories and two Pop-Tarts. And I'm thinking, holy shit, I haven't consumed 400 calories a day probably for for weeks. I forced down these two Pop-Tarts, which was extremely difficult mentally. And from there, I just slowly started to try to incorporate more food. I mean, it took months and years to build healthy relationships with food again. But it was hard to get over, but it was when I got caught, it flipped a switch instantly. And I know there's a lot of people probably listening who might have unhealthy relationships with food or have struggled with eating disorders for a long, long time. and the fix isn't always that easy.

It's rarely that easy, but for some reason that that clicks for me. What advice do you give to people who have eating disorders? I mean, what could have helped you? I mean, I think the only advice I really can give is try to get help. You know, try to. And one of the reasons I share this story, because I used to hide this for a long time.

So I saw it as a weakness and I was embarrassed. and then when I started sharing this story, so many people reached out to me saying, I'm going through the same thing. I'm going through something similar. I needed to hear this. I don't necessarily need advice, but I needed to know I wasn't doing this alone.

And there's been times where parents have reached out to me saying, hey, my kid, my 14-year-old son's in the hospital right now, can you just help on a call with him and tell them, like, your story and how you got over this thing. So that's why I share it. Now is because I know it helps a lot of people, and there's a lot going through it. But I think the best piece of advice is you got to find some help.

It's like medical. Talk to somebody. Tell somebody. Yeah, you got to like get some medical professional help. Because if you have someone who's holding you accountable, they're going to make sure you gain in a way. They're going to make sure you're eating. And it's finding ways to build these healthy relationships with food again.

Because now I look at food in terms of fueling my body and food is medicine. But it wasn't always. that way. Right. And so do you think that, I mean, that was an evolution of your life, basically, to accept the food you said is medicine. And you know how food affects performance now. So do you think that going through that makes you more passionate about where you are now and falling diets you do now and just knowing that everything you put in your body serves a purpose, essentially? Do you think it's played in for a positive? 100% yeah because like I'm I'm constantly thinking from the time I wake up what can I put in my body to make it feel really good what can I put in my body and make sure it's fueled this morning like whenever people tell me they forgot to eat I'm like I don't I don't get that because you know I'm I'm I'm a guy who likes to plan I backwards plan probably learn that in the military and implement it into my life but clear example is knowing we were going to log

a bunch of miles this morning, some people might wake up and not eat anything or maybe grab a banana or like an apple and head out the door. And I like set my alarm extra early, went downstairs, make sure I could get some oatmeal, some fruit, some eggs, some orange juice in and like get the fuel in that I'm gonna need to run 20 miles for that morning.

So I'm constantly thinking, like what am I gonna need for my day ahead to fuel myself so I can perform so I can act so I can function. Right. And then what kind of quality foods are going to help me feel the best? So, like, that's the way I look at food now in terms of what's the highest quality, best sourced food that's going to optimize the way I feel. And now, since you're so performance-based, what is the best food for performance? If you're talking, I mean, I think it seems like recently you've been more endurance focused.

I know you just did that show, but prior to that, you mentioned, you know, the ultras and the marathons and the triathons. So what have you found that's worked best for endurance? I know there's a lot of people that like high carb, but now these fat-adapted endurance athletes are becoming more popular. The Zach Bitters are training for these long endurance efforts on a ketogenic diet, which makes sense. And you can become more efficient at utilizing fat stores in the body. You're not going to tap into your muscles.

glycogen as quickly or not going to need as much glucose to fuel performance. I've never really dove into the keto space because it's just not sustainable for my life, my training, and, you know, I like carbs personally. I don't see any of those guys that have the muscle you have. I mean, yes. So your body composition would change. It would. It definitely would.

And the way that I train with endurance and strength. training. My diet is as much whole food nutrient dent food sources as possible. I get my breakfast in the morning is pasture raised, fresh farm eggs. I get from a local farmer. I do some sourdough sometimes. I'll do a fruit or oatmeal. My lunch is always potatoes or rice and ground beef, elk, or chicken. In the afternoon, I'll do like a protein shake with some Greek yogurt, some berries, some honey, some nut butter dinner is probably like a steak and potatoes and some vegetables or salad and I'm going to have something before going to bed and that's like most of my diet and how many calories would that be about right now I'm probably consuming 3,500 calories a day and burning

I'm probably burning maybe through like actual training 1,200 calories a day I would say But then there's days where, you know, I'm going out with friends and we're getting a cocktail and a pizza or a burger or Steph and I are going on a date night. So I try to control my diet as much as possible and plan for the nights out. Yeah, and plan for the nights out. But I'm not going to restrict my life and not go do these things because I'm not able to eat the foods I necessarily have prepared or want. Do you when you, I mean, here's what I do. If I go out and have I go to movie and have popcorn, do I or do you have to have a big training day before that or after that? Does that work?

Because that's how that my head works. I like to time it up like that. Yeah. Because then you feel like, well, you earned whatever the fucking your diet. Yeah. You had a good time. Now let's, let's earn it. It's like today.

You know, we knocked out that 20 mile run. And we did a lot of climbing on that run too. So after that I was done And we were going for breakfast I'm thinking like How am I going to get more carbs and more calories in? Right So it's just refueling

But yeah I'm the same way where if we're going on a date night Or we're going to have pizza or something I'm probably going to log some extra miles that day Or the next day And it just makes me feel better Like when you're going out and having some Less quality food or more of it Because I like massive quantities of food

Yeah me too I like appetizers and small plates and the big entree and me and Steph share dessert. But like I like to pair that with some sort of high volume training. Yeah, I think, I don't know. I mean, I was going to ask you what mistakes most people make in that regard or just in regard to diet. But I was going to say, I've done this before also is, yeah, I had a good training day and then I reward myself for about four days after that.

So it's like not really. Yeah. good one day, but that doesn't mean you can just totally eat like shit for four days. So it's like, we've got to make sure that this reward is matched with effort. And I think people, you know, go to a 30-minute workout and they think they're good to go for whatever they want to eat the rest of the day. Do you weigh yourself every day? No, no, I don't.

Do you wait yourself frequently? Yeah, I mean, probably every few days. Yeah, that's what I deal. I weigh myself every couple days. and you know I'll see if I'm I'll kind of use that as a guide to okay maybe I need to train more maybe I need to eat less maybe we need to go out to eat less so I'll use that as a guide based off my goals of what we're trying to get to in the mirror like you can just tell when you're yeah watery and softer it's not a good feeling no that's why I look in the mirror in the

mornings before I've eaten or drink drink anything because you're always sucked up a little bit more in the it's a little better. At night, yeah, you weigh about 10 pounds more and you're full with everywhere. But yeah. So what mistake do you think people make, you know, they want to get in shape? They want to, you know, cut some fat. What do they screw up? Where do they lose that momentum?

I think a lot of people overcomplicate it. First off, and it's hard when you have a lot of people preaching these really extreme diets. And it's like you have to go keto. You have to fast. You have to go carnivore. You have to go vegan. Meat is good. Meat is bad.

Seed oils are good. Seed oils are bad. It's like vegetables are good. Vegetables are bad. Holy crap. Where do I get started? For most people, it's there's so much contradicting information out there. So I think the best thing to do is one, just find a diet that you enjoy that's sustainable for

you that you can stick to. And you'll find results there. But then the second piece of that is, It's like the New Year's Evers where December 31st, people like, okay, next tomorrow, January 1st, and it doesn't have to be these dates, but this is an example. January 1st, I'm going to implement this new training plan. I'm going to run this many miles. I'm going to lift this many days. I'm going to throw away all this food.

So December 30th and December 31st, they go and they just binge. Right. This is my last cheat meal, I swear. Get it all out of my system. And then January 1st, they just, they changed their entire lifestyle. It's like a 180 and it's too much. And it's unsustainable. It's restrictive.

They're not enjoying it. So my biggest piece of advice is just slowly change one thing at a time, these incremental changes. Maybe the first thing you do is you start walking more and you start running a little bit more. And then maybe you start adding in some strength training. And then maybe you cut out alcohol. Yeah, that's a big one. maybe start drinking more water or replacing that chick fillet sandwich and fries and shake for lunch with like a mad greens or a chaplain or something like that and just making conscious,

intentional decisions that kind of stack up over a longer period of time will lead to more sustainable results. But everyone wants the blueprint. Everyone wants the game plan. Give me the plan. Like people are trying to me. What's your diet? plan. Send me your meal plan. I don't have a meal plan, but like I know it works for me and I know

what I enjoy and I know it makes me feel really good. So I just kind of follow some of these principles. But I'm not dogmatic or extreme with it. Yeah, because you look at you and think you were, you know, I mean, to get the results that you have to be able to perform like you do and then see, you know, the muscle you carry and be able to do this. You'd think that you'd have to be like just all in I mean, weighing everything, calculating every calorie you burned, and you're not like that? No, I don't track my food. I did when I was dieting for this bodybuilding competition. I had to, but it's like, you know, me and Steph were on vacation last week,

and she posted a picture of us eating ice cream together. And she got DMs from people who follow me saying, hold on, does Nick eat ice cream? Yeah, I eat ice cream. Yeah. And, like, I occasionally have a cocktail with dinner when we go out. And I like a burger and fries and I love pizza and we get dessert sometimes. But people think I'm so extreme in terms of I have no fun. I'm super restrictive.

It's like these are the rules and I only follow these rules. And I've met people like that before. And I don't want to be like that. Right. And I'm not like that. Hey guys. You want to be as smart as famed neuroscientist Andrew Huberman, Ph.D. at Stanford. well sadly that's probably not going to happen but I did find something that can help and that's

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Loophole optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last. few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glasses. All I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years. Thank you, Leopold for supporting the podcast. Yeah, what I found, I've tried a lot of the, you know, I've done the fat adapted. I've tried the no carbs to lose weight. Like a lot of, as you know, bodybuilders do that. Like when they're trying to, you know, to get lean.

But what I think works for me anyway, and I don't know, like free to weigh in, is meat, fruits, honey on the meat, and pretty basic. But it seems like with meat and with fruit, and there is carbs and fruit, but, man, that's a nice mix. Oh, yeah. I mean, you have good cuts of meat and pineapple and good fruit. It's like, man, that's pretty sweet. And you're rarely going to overindulge on those things.

Right. You know, you make like a good steak and you get some fruit and, you know, I like doing sweet potatoes with some carry gold butter. Like those are things I'm going to eat and when I'm full, I'm done eating. But then there's these things like chips. Bag of Doritos. Bag of Doritos. Like, you know, you ever go to a party and it's a dip party? Yeah.

And you come in and I'm like, all right, I'm just going to try this dip. And next thing you know, the whole like group shuffles over the dips and you're eating dips all night and you feel like absolute. shit by the end of it yeah there's certain foods like meat and like I love eggs love eggs and uh meats that you're not going to go super hard ham you're not going to go ham on it yeah okay um yeah that's interesting i mean people yeah they do want the blueprint like you said and uh yeah it doesn't you don't i think another lesson you've shared is you don't have to overthink it you know it's if you're getting outside every day if you're getting in fresh air if you're moving around a little bit if you're not just over indulging on things man right there that makes a big difference

cut out alcohol and soda you're down the way down the road if you do that for a while i do love self experimentation though of like trying different foods and seeing how they impact my energy or my gut or my bowels yeah and they try these different things it's like clear example is, and I'm a sucker for trying new things. I was on Ben Greensfield's blog the other day. He was talking about all these benefits from camel milk. Camel milk. Camel milk. And he had a link to this site that was selling camel milk. And I only recently started using Apple Pay, which is the most dangerous thing I've ever done. Because, you know, what's helping back from a lot of purchases in the past is, I don't have my credit card on me.

Like, I'm not going to find it. Apple Pay makes it too easy. easy to buy. So I bought like six jugs of frozen camel milk. I haven't tried it yet because it just got to the house. But apparently it's good for people who can't tolerate lactose. I can tolerate lactose. I don't have an issue with that.

But it's high in vitamins and minerals and there's been a lot of studies and research on its impact on people with autism actually. Really? I'm going to try some camel's milk. Okay. Well, yeah, I haven't followed. Does Ben have some good stuff? He has some really good stuff.

He's kind of more into the biohacking human optimization space. But he's always like testing things on himself. So I love trying different ingredients before we put it into a supplement. Like before we make a supplement, I will buy every raw material on its own. And I'll test it for a period of time to see its impact before we put it into a formula. And I'll do it with diet too. Like I'll try pulling carbs down for a period of time and increasing fats and seeing how I feel and then pulling fats down and increasing carbs. So like my diet is they always keep protein around 225, 250 grams a day.

Carbs are probably around 300 to 400 grams a day based off what I'm training for. But dietary fat is always around 130 to 160 grams of fat a day. That's a lot of fat. I love fatty foods during my bodybuilding competition. I wasn't necessarily craving carbs. I was craving fats. Hmm. Do you think most people don't get enough protein?

Oh, for sure. They hardly eat any protein. Like the normal person, I think, gets barely any protein, it seems like. I was actually just having this conversation with someone last week. Because we'll go to dinner with people or I'll spend time with people. And I'm just very conscious of how much protein they're consuming. and a lot of people are getting maybe 50 grams of protein in their diet a day. And 500 carbs.

Exactly. Yeah. The thing about protein, it's very satiating. So, like, whenever I make a meal or I'm planning a meal, the foundation of that meal is always protein. And if I can get more protein, I'm going to get more protein. And if you add protein to your plate first, that's going to make you feel fuller, longer. It's very satiating. That's what Mark Bell has said that before, too.

if he has his plate he always eats a protein first so if he gets full it's not the protein that's not being eaten uh it's interesting i do it i do it the other way i say my protein for last really because if it's on my plate you'll eat it i'm clearing it okay i think he's worried that he just won't get it in so he's telling people make sure you get that protein in so have that be the focus yeah whatever people if you put food on my plate yeah like it's going down it's going down i never leave food on the plate um so with this with your success and this whole journey, what, you know, everybody's got a story from back home. How does that, like if you go to my little hometown, I had plenty of haters coming up.

Like, how has that been dealing with people who maybe aren't on board with the dream of Nick Bear, you know, and seeing this vision and, you know, want to bring you down. Have you had to deal with any of that? Yeah. I mean, I grew up in central Pennsylvania, a small town right outside of Hershey. And I was pretty average. I was an average athlete. I was an average student.

Socially, I was just kind of average, at least from my perspective. You know, my younger brother, I started playing sports in high school. And I had this dream of playing collegiate baseball and then going to the pros. And then my brother, who's three years younger than me, he got into high school. He was a stud athlete. all the newspaper articles were Preston Bear, Preston Bear, Preston Bear. He had a cheeseburger named after him in our hometown.

Really? So that was my sign of, okay, I'm going to step down from this sports career that I'm dreaming about and I'm going to follow nutrition in the Army. But I remember, and I've told this story many times before, but it's one that kind of

we'll paint a picture for that question. You know, I started the business in 2012, and I remember I was putting myself out in there. I was creating content. I was asking people to try the supplements. I was building this website. I was doing photo shoots for the company. And we came back home for a weekend during summer break. And we lived about 30 minutes from downtown Harrisburg.

And on the weekends, all the college kids and especially people from my hometown would go downtown Harrisburg to party. So me and some friends went downtown Harrisburg And we walk into this bar And there's these group of kids Who I graduated with, but also graduated the year before me And they're chanting BPN BPN BPN BPN in the back of this bar

And at first I thought they were actually cheering me on I had support And I quickly realized they were laughing And they were making fun of me In the first couple years of me putting myself out there And creating videos and sharing content. I mean, people, people thought it was a joke. People laughed. You know, people told me, you know, your time in the Army is coming up soon. You should probably try to find a real job.

Even one of my bosses in the Army tried to tell me that when I was getting out. Really? He thought BPN was going to fail. So people, I love to say this, but people will always doubt you, but doubt is only dangerous when you start doubting yourself. Right. So, let people doubt, let people hate, let people talk. But as the moment you start to believe it, and you start to allow it to guide some of the decisions you make, that's when it's dangerous. That's when it's going to affect you.

And that's when you're not going to be able to accomplish the things you want to accomplish. But yeah, I've been experiencing those things for the last decade plus. Did it, did you ever doubt yourself? Yeah, for sure. And it helped me back tremendously. You know, people start doubting you and you start to believe it. When enough people say you can't do this or this is a joke or you're selfish and this is stupid, you start to actually believe some of these things.

Yeah, are they right? Are they right? You know, the first time I put out on the internet that I was going to run a sub three-hour marathon articles and forums and YouTube videos and post of people saying, Nick Fair will never run a sub three-hour marathon. And then I went down and did it and I ran 324. I missed it by 24 minutes, then I trained for another year,

and I fucking did it. And I ran 248. And people will still talk shit. People will still criticize. But if I would have let those people bring me down the moment I didn't do it and just give up, I would have never accomplished some of those goals. After that 324, you could have went,

fuck, they were right. I can't do this. Yeah. And you could have quit right there. they would have quote one. How much does knowing you have those people out there doubting you push you? It actually doesn't anymore. No, you're past that.

Yeah, I'm not fueled by any of that anymore. I'm fueled now by the people that it's helping. Right. The positive. I think that's a normal transition. Yeah. I think you, it seems like you want to prove people wrong for a long time. And then once that's over,

and you made it, then it's like, okay, let's focus on the shit that really matters. The people, I can help. Yeah, I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong at this point. I do. Just kidding. I'm not kidding. But go ahead.

Is it because a lot of the hate? Yeah. I mean, I just feel like I'm better with it. I don't know. It's like weird. Like, I'll look at my page. And you can go past all of the like, good job, good job, good job. And then you're like, wait, wait, what's this guy saying?

And then that's the one. The loudest are always like the ones that stand out. Yeah. The very few loud. But I think it's natural. Like for anyone to say those comments don't bother me. Yeah. It's like, it's perspective now.

Because now I've been around it enough to know, I know what this type of person is. I know they're miserable with themselves. so that's why they're saying this, just projecting whatever. So I get it, but I can still use it. Yeah. For me, I mean, I'm not saying I'm like anybody else because if you don't even have to pay attention to it, then it's probably a healthy place to be.

I just, I like having it there, but I also like knowing in perspective that, you know, this is some fuck up who, whatever, he's trying to negatively impact me and not going to happen. It's just going to use it for fuel. But I just know that by and, large, what we're both doing seem it's a net positive. You know, you can't, you can't tell me that

people aren't inspired because we see it every day. Yeah. And so that's, that's what matters. You're making the world a better place, trying to make a positive impact. And, you know, I think that's a good goal. That's my goal anyway. I think what scares me with some of the stuff that's online and on social media, because I was younger growing up, it wasn't a thing. Right. Now, tough. I was born in 1990s. So, like, Like social media started being a thing when I was in the later parts of college. But I always think back to like these people might be fathers or husbands or wives or mothers. And if they're doing this online and spreading this kind of negativity, like how are they raising these children? How are they raising and leading their household?

And I mean, that's just like this downward spiral that snows balls. and you start to think, how do we make a change? Exactly. Yeah. No, I know. I do feel bad for people like that, just, you know, at the end of the day.

So, but when you think about, it is kind of irritating, those fucking people in the bar at your hometown. You know, because how many people who had dreams, others shit on, that gave up on them is what I think about. You didn't, obviously.

And now you go from people, Channing BPN as like sarcastic fucking with you to now what is BPN? Tell me how the company is doing. Isn't it like multimillion dollar? Yeah. I mean, it's doing great. And, you know, we build it organically for those first eight years. Just like head down, build the brand of the way we want to build the brand that's

very authentic and real and raw and the brand. and the brand that we want to be a part of with products that we want to use and we want to share with other people. Only this past year and a half did I actually start building out more of a, I don't say corporate structure, but a professional executive team

brought on a professional CFO. To scale it. To scale. I stepped down from the CEO role. I put a true operator in place. Kat Thomas is our CEO at BPN now. Putting a senior marketing leader in place to guide some of the strategic decisions that we're making from a creative and performance

marketing perspective. So, like, that was only recently a layer that we added on to the business that allowed me to then focus on what I wanted to be focused on, building the brand, content, sharing the story, guiding and creative process. But, I mean, there's been so many different evolutions of the business. And each chapter or evolution that I've experiences had like a special place in my heart. You know, I remember I remember being in our first warehouse. It was 6,000 square feet, 2017, 2018, three of us, like I said. And cash flow was an absolute nightmare. We didn't have any, debt to leverage we didn't have a line of credit we didn't have terms with manufacturers

and they were and we were growing you know we were growing 2017 was the first year we did seven figures in business and there were days nights where we had like two thousand dollars left in the bank account and rent was due the next week and rent was like nine thousand dollars and i would go on our email blast and i'd send down a 20 percent off discount for the next 24 hours and we make enough money to pay for rent that next week but it was like that year was so or that time period was so stressful but the only way I can describe it is it felt like Christmas every single morning I woke up I sprung on a bed I was excited to create content I was excited to go in the business and just like go from zero to one what do we need to do to get to where we

need to be and there was never this monumental boom shift blow up, but it was just this compounding consistency of building a true, authentic and real brand and connecting with people and building this community with great products that kind of has gotten us to where we're at, almost 11 years in now. I'm a big fan of compounding consistency over time. Just show up and be consistent. Just show up and be consistent. One of the things my running coach, Jeff Cunningham, says, is it's better to be consistently

good than occasionally great. You know, you think of the runner who wakes up. Every single day goes and logs their miles, day in, day out. It's hot, it's cold, it's rainy, it's sunny. They're still going to log their miles. Then you have the other person who wakes up, they snooze, they don't go run their miles, they don't log their easy runs. But occasionally they go out and they run the fastest mile they can.

Or they go and sign up for a marathon and blow up. And they're occasionally great. But to be consistently good, that compounds, and that's going to get you so much further than the person who's chasing quick greatness. Yeah, I mean, I get that 100% because there are so many people better than me 30 years ago. I just haven't quit in 30 years.

So you can't help and get better on something that you do every single day. And they were way better than me on natural talent and gifts, natural gifts and ability. But yeah, it's that compounding. interest day after day, eventually you're going to get pretty good if you, if you, you know, keep at it. So it seems like to me, you talked about all those evolutions, all those different chapters, but they're all centered around hard work, focus and hard work. You never lost focus

from what I understand. No. I mean, you always had your eye on the prize. Like, this is what I want and I'm just going to put in, I'm going to punch that time clock every day. Yeah, I mean, I learned that from my family growing up. Hmm. So my dad side of the family, they were dairy farmers in central Pennsylvania. So I was still young when they saw the farm, but I still can remember my grandpa waking up every single morning going to the barn, milking the cows with the kids, my dad and his brother. Every single night, didn't matter what was going on. They went and they milked the cows every single night.

Extremely hardworking people. I have so much respect for the farming community, whether it's a big farm. or a small farm, those people work extremely hard. And sometimes there's things out of their control that can ruin the yield of crop or their chickens or their cows. They get sick. It gets hot. The barn burns down. But my grandpa is such a hardworking person.

I watched that side of the family in the farming business, especially dairy farming business in Pennsylvania. My mom's side of the family. Most of them were military. grandfather, uncle, cousins. So growing up, seeing them come back and forth between Iraq and Afghanistan when it was super kinetic, those two different dynamics definitely shaped the person I become. And when it was happening, I wasn't very aware. I wasn't like in my senior year of high school thinking, oh, I'm learning a lot for my grandfather on this side and my grandfather from this side.

they never had to tell me what hard work was. They just showed me. And not even intentionally. I just picked up by being around. And I think that's where I learned it. And then I started implementing it through what I did in the Army, building the business, training, setting goals, chasing them down. But I'm very grateful.

I'm very aware that not everyone has that opportunity. But I'm very grateful to have had that opportunity from both sides of the family to, to learn that. Well, yeah, I mean, I think, and also I think you deserve some credit too because there's a lot of kids who would have seen that and still wouldn't have learned shit. Because unless you, with some kids, you got to say, hey, this is what it fucking takes. Do you see what's going on here? Do you see what it takes to get this done every day?

This is what's expected. But it doesn't sound like that happened to you, but you still picked it up. Yeah. I also think, and that could be completely. wrong but I think it's one of those things you either got it or you don't if someone has to keep telling you can you just work a little bit harder but can you just show a little bit more initiative can you just try a little bit more here they're never going to get it right that person's never going to get it but there's certain people who have it in their DNA in their blood who are just

workers who are going to wake up and put it in and do what they got to do to get the job done right and it's the consistency of it waking up getting it done waking up getting it done waking up getting done, waking up getting it done. I'm doing that for over a decade now to build this thing that I wanted to build. And I look back and I'm like, oh, we actually made some some progress throughout this journey. Well, when I went to your facility, you're still the same place, right? We're still there, yeah. And it's just like it was immaculate.

It was organized. It was professional. It was everything. I'm like, I was really impressed because I had also been at, I think, first full. And they're like they knew of you. They were talking about you. And it's like, yeah, you're not as big as first form, obviously. But if I looked at the blueprint of both, it seems like it's just theirs is a larger version of what you're doing because you're building.

They've been at it for a while. Yeah. But same type of philosophy, which is, you know, buy the book, clean, professional, everything done right. And I see a lot of similarities between first form and BPN. And I was just like so impressed because again, I hadn't seen the facility, but I knew of you. And, you know, we got a chance to run a little bit and do a podcast. And going through there, I was just like, God, this guy is focused and, you know, knows what he wants. I appreciate that.

Yeah, I was, I was super impressed and still am. Well, it's the hard right over the easy wrong. So many people are constantly choosing the easy wrong. And they know it. They know they're following the wrong path. They're making the wrong decisions. They're hanging out with the wrong crowd. It's only going to lead you.

If you keep choosing the easy wrong, expecting it to take you in a different path than it's already taking you, you're either stupid or like you're just oblivious, right? But if you keep choosing the hard right, the hard right is going to take more time. It's going to take more money. It's going to take more work, more resources.

but it's going to take you exactly where you want to go. So keep choosing the hard right over the easy wrong. I mean, you mentioned your family influenced you on the hard work that you've talked about. Who, like in business has influenced you, I mean, or inspired you? I don't know if there's really even anyone that has necessarily inspired me. I mean, there's been a lot of books and authors that I've studied. Like Donald Miller is an author that I highly respect and I study his work and I listen to what he has to say. Seth Godin as a marketer.

I'm inspired by people like Phil Knight, building Nike and some of these legacy entrepreneurs. But I haven't had necessarily a mentor of building BPN. Now, I will say that, you know, as I started building out this executive team, my CFO, Josh Holly and CEO, Kat Thomas, they have winged me and they have mentored me tremendously in terms of just the intricacies of business and complexities of business. They have definitely been a mentor for me, but the way we kind of built and got to where we were at, like earlier I said my head was down just building for eight plus years. It was really just having a vision of where we want to go and then moving towards that vision and then failing tremendously and then refining and making a new plan and failing tremendously and refining a new plan.

I mean, I made so many mistakes in the building process, but I've learned from each one of those mistakes. I've never been paralyzed by an overanalysis of decisions. I've always been pretty good, I think, at identifying a problem, making a decision, implementing that solution, and then seeing how that plays out. Maybe it was the wrong decision, but I made a decision. Sometimes it just takes making a decision, move that direction. You'll figure out if it's right or wrong, but a lot of people do get that paralysis, like you mentioned, where they're not doing anything, and nothing's happening.

So sometimes it takes somebody in and just making a call. I think having a business mentor is a really good idea. But it also depends on what are you trying to build? How are you trying to build it? And at what phase are you at? I've tried to work with different mentors over the years of building BPN that I wanted to help me get to where I wanted to be. But if they weren't willing to dive in and truly understand what we were trying to build,

they didn't get it. A lot when they just applied their blueprint to your blueprint and it doesn't work. Or they're trying to teach you things about a chapter or season you were in two years ago. It's not working. So what I've personally found is that if you want someone to help mentor you and get to where you want to be, bring them into the business as either a consultant or a mentor and put them on salary or a contractor pay. Let them dive into that business and learn about. that business because what they're going to help you do is learn how to make decisions that are best for your unique business because business is so unique.

Brand is so unique. The same things that work for one aren't going to work for the other. Yes, there is table stakes and there's things that are by default, things that will be effective protocols for business, standard operating procedures for a warehouse, for example, to get certified or legal issues. having a solid accountant, things like that, yes. But in terms of building, that's so unique. So where do you transition from Nick Bear being the face of Bear performance nutrition

to just BP standing on its own? This is something that I started to do a few years ago, actually. And if you look at BPN's content or website or ads, you'll see me actually pretty infrequently. I'm not all over the website. I'm not on our social all the time. I'm not in our ads because a few years ago, we started to really make that transition for scalability.

Was that hard? Because you'd been the face and like that's how it got built up. Oh, yeah. It was hard. It was hard. It was hard. Yeah. But a lot of it was bringing some athletes on the team

and building out in the ambassador program and getting the community more involved. One of the things we've been doing a lot recently is these things called athletic clubs. So we'll host athletic clubs in Austin. The team right now as we speak is in Philly at the Penn Relays hosting Athletic Club. They've been in Miami this year, Tennessee. They're going all over the country hosting these athletic clubs, activating our community and bringing them out for a workout and introducing them to the brand and products.

We're doing a lot of in real life events this year. So we've kind of positioned the brand now where it doesn't live and die based off of me. Right. Because there's a lot of risk there. I could get hit by a car tomorrow

and that's obviously something I don't want but the brand doesn't want either. So I started making that transition a few years ago. I think we're in a really good spot right now where yes, the brand will benefit from the personal platforms I've built

in the community that's been built but it doesn't. live and die based off of it anymore. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, that's part of, I think, growing any business, you know, when the entrepreneur starts it. And then there is a point where you're like, well, okay, what's the next phase?

We've got to transition away from me into if we're going to grow this thing bigger. Yeah, that's interesting. I've become very fond of the term founder or I'm more proud of. the term founder now than I was of CEO. I think a lot of founders want to hold on to the title of CEO based off of ego or control. But for me, like, I'm so proud of the term founder and being able to focus on the projects I'm working on now in the business and hiring a professional CEO. That was one of the best moves we've ever made.

Is she better than you at business? Oh, yes. Really? Oh, yeah. Wow. Kat's mind works in a very calculated and operational sense. I'm more of the brand visionary, creative guy. She is very operational heavy.

She's taking lead on a lot of retail accounts and building out our retail program, refining and building out SFPs and efficiencies in our warehouse, building on systems and structure to really grow and manage the team. She's in the day-to-day, down in their managing departments and people and systems, and she's really good at that. And based off her background, I mean, she was a previous founder of a company. After graduating from college, she was a trader for Goldman Sachs. She was a CEO of a 100 plus million dollar medical facility organization.

Then she founded a company. And then we brought her on initially as kind of an advisor. And then she joined full time. And it was like this natural progression of, hey, why don't she move into the CEO role? And I move out. Sounds expensive with all her credentials. I mean, you get what you pay for. Yeah. I mean, if she's done all that, yeah. I mean, that's what you need, though, because

you're so close to it and you're so passionate about the brand itself. Yeah. And an operations manager or CEO is a little more detached and can make good business decisions where maybe they, just a different perspective than you're going to have as the founder. Well, I was finding myself where, you know, in the morning we were going out, and filming a YouTube video. So we were filming from like 6 a.m. until 8, 9 a.m. And I was coming back and trying to get caught up on emails.

And then we go into a podcast, for example. And that was done. And then I was trying to, you know, do day-to-day operations of the business. And for me, it was this kind of self-awareness I had to have of, okay, I can't do both of these things. I can't create content and build awareness and dedicate 100% of my time, energy, resources into that and also 100% of my time energy resources into being the CEO it's not fair to myself it's not fair to the team so that's what really triggered that decision was if i want to do

what's best for the business and the team i have to step down from that role yeah that makes sense how critical do you think is the content and the social media aspect of your business i mean is that a big driver growing. Yeah, 100%. It's because there's two different business models. If we really simplified this, there's two different business models you can take to build a brand. You can bootstrap it like we did.

Bootstrapped it. You know, it wasn't funded by investors or private equity or anything like that. And the only option was to build loyalty and a community around the brand that was obsessed with the brand you know people are getting going more tattoos all over their body they're they're buying the apparel and they're wearing it at their marathons they're all over their body like on their penis did you ever see one of those not yet but okay i mean i'm if someone if someone does that i'll give them a chit done of

supplements just don't send me a picture sending to cam yeah But, you know, we built the brand and this loyal community. We have a 75% return customer rate, high conversion. I've heard the quality of your supplements is top notch. I mean, you know, Tanner talks about it. My boys have bought a lot of supplements from a lot of different places. He talks about that BPN has a good reputation of being high quality. So that's probably key too.

It is. I mean, there's three things. the CEO of Jim Shark told me this. There's three things that will determine the growth and success of a business. It's the brand. It's the product and it's the people. And if you get those three things right, you're going to grow that thing to massive success. That's what Jim Shark has done.

Awesome brand, great products, amazing people. So that's one way to grow the business. That's the approach we took. The second way to grow a business, and that's why social media is so important. It's connecting with the consumer. It's building a community. It's sharing content. It's telling stories.

It's connecting it through an authentic platform. The other way is venture-backed. Company raises a couple million dollars, maybe a couple hundred million dollars. And they keep raising money year over year over year. And they don't care about being profitable, but they have great performance marketing. And they just want to grow and sell and sell. Yeah. So they spend so much money to.

keep acquiring customers. You don't really care if those customers stay on, but they just want to grow, grow, grow. And they pay back their venture capitalists when they sell. Yeah. The hard part about that is you're not building trust. You're not building community. You're not really building brand.

You just have really strong performance marketing metrics. That's not the approach we took. So that's why social is so important for us. And the way that we use social is it connects with a consumer. It connects with people. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think it's important too.

I mean, we've tried to model that also with just being authentic, sharing a lot of content, a lot of high-quality content, you know, made a big investment on equipment just to, you know, before we knew we were going to be able to pay for it, I'm like, I wanted to look good. You know, I want this to stand out and look professional, and then hopefully if we do a good job, then the money will come in and sponsorships and the listeners and all that. I mean, the studio is great. Thank you. This whole garage is great.

Yeah, thank you. It's, yeah, had a good team working here and helping with everything set it up. They're better than me. I will say, I'm impressed with your podcasting ability. How do you, you know, I remember I told Courtney before that I said, if somebody asked you a question that you've been asked before, say you're not answering it until they come with a fresh question. Because she gets asked a lot of like the same type of questions.

You know, like, well, did have you hallucinated or what you know, all this stuff? And it's like, I listened to you talk to her and I was like, God dang, freaking Nick is good. It's a lot of prep. I mean, you are, is that, is that your secret? Is prep? Yeah, I do a lot of prep. And I try to think of like, one, what is the message I want to get across in this episode

with this person? What do I want to pull out of this? And I try to guide the conversation to get to that point. it's definitely not an interview style. Like, tell me about this. Answer. Tell me about this. Answer.

But it's just guiding this conversation to get this thing. Like, clear example, when we did our podcast together, when you told that story, I was like, tell me a story of like the perfect day hunting. Yeah. And that was an epic story. And people DM me all about that story. So I'm trying to think of what's going to connect with people. And a lot of times story connects with people.

I do get frustrated when I'm trying to get like something out of the conversation and guide it and that person just won't go there. Yeah. So sometimes before the podcast starts, I'm like, you know, I'd love we could dive into this because I think a lot of people would benefit from it. Right. You kind of set it up. Yeah. Yeah. I know.

Courtney, again, she was here. She will not talk about herself. Like, I mean, you know, you could say, oh, how was that? you, you know, broke the course record on this race. How did that feel? And she'll talk about somebody else running or the organizer of the race or it's just like, no, I want to hear that you're a fucking badass and you crushed everybody. She won't say that.

So it's like there's some people who you can't lead down to any, you know, she did, for her, she just doesn't like to talk about herself. That's a tough one. I remember when she was on hours. I asked her a question about a race. And she goes, well, let's actually talk about your letable experience. No, I know. We're not doing that.

I know. I told her that too because, like, one time, when she was trying to break the Colorado Trail record, she was trying to get it done in seven days. It's 495 miles. And the record was eight days. And so she'd been running four days and I show up there and I ran with her for 26 hours. And she was when she had to go to emergency room. I mean, she was pushed herself to the brink, you know.

And I get there. She'd been running four days, had slept probably a couple hours. Who knows? Maybe not even that. And so we're in the middle of the night and she's like, how are you doing okay? How are you feeling? And I'm like, no, I'm not falling for that shit. Don't ask how I'm feeling.

You're not going to trick me into this, but that's just how she is. It's like, I don't know, it's pretty, pretty endearing. And it's incredible because most people love to talk about themselves. Yes. You know what I mean? So it's a, yeah, she's a tough one for a podcaster. But I mean, I was impressed because you did ask questions that I listen to all her podcast because, you know, I'm a fan. But you have, it must be the prep because you have an ability to ask a different, maybe similar questions, but a different take on them or come from a different direction. I've been, I've been impressed with your ability.

Some of my favorite podcast. and I call myself a professional podcast listener have been yours. I appreciate that. Yeah. It's, well, I mean, it sounds to me like, just like with your business, you, you know, put in the work because prepping is work. You got to read the books. You got to listen to interviews they've been. You got to do research on them.

And I don't know. It's awesome. I remember when I did the podcast with you, it was the same week I did a podcast with Tim Kennedy. Yeah. I read both of your guys books prior to that. So I was reading for like, I'm a slow reader. I was reading for nights to prepare for those. But one of my favorite quotes, you know, the way I came across this one is my creative director, Jordan Utter.

This was a few years ago. I walked into his office and he had this little sticky note in his computer. And it said lack of intentionality leads to a repetition of what is easiest. That was one of those quotes that as soon as I read it, I was like, wow. So, right. How many podcasts or YouTube channels do you see pop up or even Instagram content that it's like following the same trend doing the same thing? And it's because it's a lack of intentionality. Like when you're intentional with what you're creating and how you're creating it and it's unique.

That's why things blow up. Right. That's why I think it becomes popular. That's why your content is so engaging with so many people. It's unique. It's different. There's no one else doing it. People attract to that.

And it's different. It has a competitive advantage. And it's just new. You know, there's intention behind the way it's being built. Yeah. I mean, it's,

and if you're not authentic, and I've always said this. I hate that authentic is a word because it's should be just how you are. Are you, it's like saying, like being celebrated for not being fake. It just seems weird to me. But, yeah, if people don't have the passion that I have, because what I have a passion for is what I share, so it's authentic.

But if you don't, it's never going to be the same because you can't duplicate something you don't care about, you know, or you can't duplicate, passion or being authentic. It's just, yeah, I don't know, it's a social media. It's been a great, been a great tool for us. You know, it has. I can't talk too much shit about it because, you know, we've connected through it. We've had a couple great days because of social media.

And I've met a lot of great people because of it. I mean, there's, there's pros and cons to everything. Mm-hmm. Right. I think like leaning back into that whole authentic piece, I had Lewis Howells in our podcast recently. He wrote a new book. and one of the things you talk about in this new book is identity foreclosure, which I found so interesting, especially for younger people where here's an example of what identity foreclosure could be. Someone when they're in high school decides they want to be a doctor.

So they go to college to be a doctor and they spend eight years after college being able to be a practicing doctor. and now they're 12 years in before they actually can be a doctor and by the time they become a doctor they realize holy shit I hate this I don't want to do this I have no purpose or passion but I just invested

12 years in hundreds of thousands of dollars in this thing that I wanted to do so they feel stuck 12 years ago so they feel stuck so they keep doing it for the rest of their life that's identity foreclosure so that's just being unauthentic to yourself.

Right. That's doing yourself a disservice. It's okay to pivot. Sometimes pivoting is one step forward or one step back to take two steps forward. Yeah. But you're probably going to be a whole lot happier if you do. Yeah. Right.

Well, so what's your goals now? I mean, we've talked about how you got here. Where do you see yourself going now? I mean, other than being a bow hunter. Definitely, bohunter. I'm still trying to figure this out a little bit. bit to be honest like moving into a different part of the business uh i'm really focused on brand awareness creating content and building the brand i want to work on special projects within bpn so instead of having

like all these duties and responsibilities i want to plug into where i can solve issues one at a time have these special projects and really work on those special projects implement solutions and systems and build teams and and help it grow and then, you know, move down at that special project and move into another. That ideally is how I would operate within BPN. The podcast is a huge priority for me. And then kind of like we were talking about in the run this morning, I want to prioritize family. And if I'm being honest with myself, this will be the first time I ever prioritized family.

I used to say I prioritize family, but it's something I just said. You're like, what are your top priorities? Family, business, fitness. It was actually business fitness family in that order. And now having a daughter, you know, she's nine months old, I want to spend more time with my wife, I want to spend more time with my daughter, I want to be present when I'm home.

And I want to really find that balance between, and it's hard because of a very ambitious person, but I want to be content with what I'm doing and who I'm with and really be very, present when I'm in that moment, but also be really fucking ambitious with the things I'm chasing down and working towards. And if I can figure out that balance somehow and work on those things, I think I'd be in a really fulfilling spot.

Yeah. I mean, it does sound good. How does one, how does one be content or how does one be present? That's, I hear people say that all the time. I, I'm always thinking about. something and it's just like I'm trying to listen yeah I want to listen I want to be present I don't it feels like I don't know how because I'm always doing a thousand different things so how how can you be present here's some of the things I've done that have actually been working

this is not bullshit okay I read this book the ruthless elimination of hurry by mark comer he's a pastor it's a great book about just like implementing strategies and techniques in your life to actually be present. This is probably a book I'll read once a year. Highly recommended. It's a quick read or quick audio book. The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. The second book I read, I forget what the title is, but it's about boundaries and setting

boundaries. And I've just started setting more boundaries in my life. Like I used to be super accessible all the time to anyone in the business. business, friends, family. If someone texted me, I had to text them right back. If someone emailed me, I had an email them right back. So I've just started saying no to more things and setting

boundaries of clear example. You know, my friends hit me up a few weeks ago to go to a bachelor party. And it's like, it just didn't fit in my schedule. And to be honest, I didn't want to go. Right. So I just said, I'm not going. So just saying no to more things

has helped out tremendously. And then actually just setting some boundaries for yourself. Like one of the things I've started doing, I fail sometimes, but on my phone, I turned off where I can't access certain apps before 8 a.m. and after 5 p.m. Now, you can also click on the app and say ignore, which I've done, but I'm trying to get better at, you know, before I wake up, I'm going for my morning run. I'm not on my phone before that. I'm not on my phone before that. and I get back, I feed Charlie, and then I head off to the office.

And then when I get home from the office at night, I'm spending time with family or making dinner. I'm actively present there. And I'm not checking my email and checking social and checking sales on our Shopify store. Those are three things. Those two books and those kind of setting boundaries and then setting those actual physical boundaries on my phone have actually helped out a little bit.

But it's also just like this. this mindset shift of I don't have to be accessible to everyone all the time. And through that, I can now start like, you know, when my daughter was born, my priority shifted pretty quickly. Yeah. I thought I was going through a midlife crisis. And then I read this book called From Strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks. And it talks about how we think we're going through these things called crises.

or a midlife crisis, quarter life crisis. I thought it was going through a crisis. But we often mistake a crisis for a transition in life. And there's these small transitions that happen every 12 to 18 months in our life. You have a kid. You get a new job. You get fired. You retire.

You get married. You get divorced. You move. There's all these things that happen. And what I realized when I thought I was having a midlife. quarter life crisis a few months ago, there were two massive transitions I experienced. One, Charlie was born. Two, I sat down from the CEO role.

I was trying to navigate my next, you know, objective in my professional career within the business. And those two big transitions felt like a crisis. So those are just some of the things that I've personally implemented and experienced. and I found that they actually work. Yeah. Yeah, that's good advice because I think I hear people, like I said, say that all the time and can't really quantify what it is like you did right there.

I mean, and again, it's like it's, what I've picked up from you is you're very thoughtful, very strategic. And, yeah, I mean, I have no doubt you're going to be successful in mapping out your, whatever you're, your future is and being successful at that too. I mean, it's kind of like we talked about on the run today about potential. I thought that was like a, I really wanted to bring this up in the podcast because I thought it was something really good we were talking about in terms of, you know, say 20 years ago for you what you thought your actual potential was, what you were trying to achieve. And every week and month and

year that goes by because of hard work and consistency and it compounding that potential just keeps pushing off to the right more and more more you know what you thought your potential was 20 years ago changes now now you're starting to realize oh my potential was so much further than I thought it was and that's something I'm trying to apply to my life too it's like you know how do I apply that to my fitness and my health and my family And how I interact with my family and my business. And I love that kind of segment of talking about potential in that run today because I thought it could be super interesting and relatable for a lot of people

because potential is relative for the chapter of life you're in and how long you've been working towards that ambition. Yeah, what I said there was when we were running, if I tried to train like I do now when I was 30, I never could have done it. But that was my full potential when I was 30. Now my full potential was much higher because of that, that sliding scale, basically. And so, yeah, potential does change.

It's not like, because most time you hear people say, well, you know, and I've said it before, a man's greatest failure is untapped potential, right? So that's an easy saying. But that potential, yeah, untapped if you haven't done shit, is, yeah, that is terrible. But what if you push that potential higher and higher and higher? And you're always chasing it because it, as you said, it's a sliding scale. What was your full potential here?

Who knows where it is now? And what I've been learning and you show, you know, more than anybody is that what these preconceived notions of what we thought was a strength athlete or an endurance athlete or what's the limits of the human body, they're changing all the time. And we're chasing new heights with that. And it's like, that's exciting. So maybe we don't even know what our full potential is until we get into it and actually are dedicated to what, in focused on this. I don't know if we'll ever know our full potential until we start having, I think you reach a certain age where you just can't reach. At least physical. Yeah.

You can't physically reach a full potential anymore. You start getting old, right? It just like it happens at some point. And then your mind starts going. And then you're just done for. Yeah. Right. But like there's got to be a point.

Yeah. There's got to be a point where like you can keep pushing it further and further and further. But the best part is, I think the most important thing to realize is the earlier you get started. Yeah. And the more consistent you are, the further you're going to push that, that potential before that time limit hits. Right. off yeah no and and now so i'm 55 so if you look at like if my kids they got 30 years 30 years to chase that potential that is so long if you stay focused for 30 fucking years it's uh you know and when

they they started much higher than me so who knows where the hell they could go that's that's what's exciting about i don't know i don't know i see people out there doing amazing things and it It inspires me, but I think it should inspire everybody. And you're in that category, too. What you've done is, you know, I'll admit when you said you were going to run a sub 250. And I know you could run, but I'm like, that big fuckers, he can run a sub 250? I don't, I don't think. I mean, come on.

And sure shit you did. It's like, so it's, I've been proven wrong, but, you know, in a good way with you. And it's just like, it kind of, it inspires me, too, to be like, you know, I was asking you about if you follow training plans for, for racing. Because I never have. So I was like, you just by doing what you do, inspires me to maybe look at myself and be like, God dang, could I be doing better? Could I be doing a little more like what Nick does? So it's a, I thank you for that. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm a fan.

I have, you know, looked at some of your goals. and been like, is he going to be able to do that? I don't know. And then been pleasantly surprised that you did it because I love to see people win. And you're a fucking winner, dude. I think I've learned over the last, like, just a couple years that there's nothing that's unbelievable or unachievable.

If you truly, and it sounds cliche, like, if you just put your mind to it and you make a plan, you follow that plan, you can do it. but it's pretty fucking true. Yeah. Yeah. If you set a plan, you set a goal and you make a plan, you stick to that plan, you don't deviate from that plan, you might miss it. But then you revise and refine that plan, you hop back on that track and you keep working towards it.

Once you realize you can pretty much do almost anything you want, you're unstoppable. Yeah. But so many people, they have such limited beliefs in what they can achieve. You know, I came from this family. I grew up here. I don't have this money. I don't have these opportunities. Create them.

Right. Create the opportunities. If you create the opportunities, it's going to get you to exactly where you want to be one day. Yeah. I mean, it's 100% true. I've seen a lot of people because what I say is I want to talk to outliers here. It's like, and hopefully I can learn from them, but also my listeners can learn from them.

And you're a good example of that. I mean, if you, and you said you're going to have Chris Williamson on your podcast. but you listen to him, he was working in a nightclub and on some reality show, and now he's got a podcast called Modern Wisdom, where he's, like, lumped in with intellectuals. How does one go from that setting in the UK in some busy, small little country, basically? And then now to where he's in Austin, Texas, with a Modern Wisdom podcast talking to the great minds of today.

It's like, but this theme has been proven over and over again, Chandler, walk on at Missouri wrestling to fighting Connor McGregor in the next fight. I mean, every guest I have has a story. So if people need to be proven this over and over again, listen to this podcast, and you see that. You see these lessons. And here's, you're the latest version of this lesson of some kid from small town, Pennsylvania, and just killing it in life. In life, the beautiful family, a successful business.

and, you know, all the accolades you've earned with your physical abilities. It's like, and serving our country, it's like, dude, I mean, I'm impressed. I value what you offer society and what you're putting out there in the world. And it's, I mean, it's an honor to have you here and have this podcast with you. Thank you. I appreciate that. It means a lot, especially coming from you. Just one I highly respect and what you've built and the way you build it.

and the way I view a lot of what you do is you know who you are and what you stand for and you're not going to break that for anyone and that's extremely admirable and I respect that tremendously so I appreciate that thank you well how I end up these podcasts with the outliers that come is I hand them over their brand new Hoyt and here's the bow that you shot like a pro today. Beautiful. To keep hammering VTM. And I can't wait for you to get home and practice with that. And man, you impressed me today.

And I'm proud and honored to give you that bow to take home. I'm excited because you know what the thing is? A few months ago, I went to buy a bow. Yeah. But they didn't have a hoit of where I went. And I knew that's what you shoot. So I didn't want to get anything else. So I got the target.

So I've had a target sit in my garage for months. for months now, but now I'm going to go crush some targets with the new bow. So I appreciate you. And big thanks and shout on to Hoyt for hooking it up. Hoy, did you hear that? He didn't want to buy another bow because of me. That's the honest truth. That's awesome.

Well, thank you. Thanks for coming to Oregon. Thanks for a great day of training. Again, you impressed me with how tough you were, how strong you are, how good a shot you were, is everything I expected. and I'm honored that you shared the day with me. Thanks, Cam. I appreciate you. Keep hammering. I think a lot of you guys will be interested in this next sponsor.

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2005 and personally I really don't care what bow you shoot what brand it is I just hope that you have the same level of confidence in your equipment as I have in mine because I know if I get one opportunity with my Hoyt it's going to pay off