Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 023 - Branlin Shockey

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Someone once said, “Success is measured by the number of stories a man has.” Who better to tell a story than filmmaker, Branlin Shockey. Branlin has spent decades perfecting his craft of telling hunting adventures through film with a goal of igniting the ancestral human spirit. Listen to the creator of “Once, We Were Wolves” and what drives him to inspire the world through film.   Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Branlin: https://www.instagram.com/branlinshockey/   Thank you to our sponsors: Santa Cruz Medicinals: https://scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off Keytone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Black Buffalo: https://blackbuffalo.com/discount/CAM use code CAM for 15% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping First Light: https://www.firstlight.farm/ Use Code Cam15 for 15% off your first order Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com   Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro 0:02:31 The evolution of the film industry 0:04:27 Honesty of a storyteller 0:05:51 The meaning behind “Once, We Were Wolves” 0:12:00 Protecting the integrity of the hunt 0:18:40 Connection through vulnerability 0:20:43 “Keeping it real” as a creative 0:23:56 Worse to film: Cam or Jim? 0:31:00 “Because it’s there.” 0:33:00 The imperfection of the hunt 0:41:05 The false perception of what makes a great hunting film 0:48:30 What do you want to be known as 0:50:13 Deciding to wait to release the film 0:55:10 Freedom through toughness 1:00:23 Success through stories 1:11:30 Importance of spending time with outliers 1:15:33 Branlin’s future goals 1:20:22 Who has impacted you as a filmmaker 1:26:36 What was missing from “Once, We Were Wolves” 1:37:00 The bond  

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plus free shipping with the code hammering. Cabell's and Bass Pro Shops is a sponsor of the podcast. And that's especially powerful for me because I remember when Cabellas came to town, came to Springfield, Oregon. And I actually played a role in the opening of that store. Instead of cutting the grand opening ribbon with scissors, I shot it with an arrow. And it was just a monumental thing. I mean, everybody here in town was talking about, hey, are you going to go to Cabellas? Can you believe Cabellas is coming here to Springfield, Oregon? So I know what a staple, those giants in the industry are. And it's actually, it's one of the first places people go when

they're looking to get geared up to become a hunter as they go to Cabellas and buy everything they need. So I'm very excited that we've partnered together and we can help open up those outdoor and hunting opportunities to listeners of this podcast. Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me, I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammering Collective with Brandon Shockley. Thanks for having me on. You're not going to correct me?

Nope. You know what? I hardly even bother because my entire life, people have been calling me... Brandon? Not my name. Yeah. 90% of the time it's Brandon. I've got Branden.

I even got Gremlin once. Gremlin? Gremlin? Gremlin. I thought my name was Gremlin. Yeah, that would actually make a lot of sense. Yeah. Thanks, Mom and Dad for that one.

Cheers. Yeah. So it is Branlin Shockey. Yes, sir. I was joking around. But the people who follow this podcast, follow this journey. They would know your name.

Mostly, I mean, from the Shockey name. Yeah. Jim Shockey, you've been, you know, in the business forever. But lately from the film once we were wolves. Yeah. Let me throw my sister's name in there too. Oh. Because nowadays she's kind of a big.

I didn't know you had a sister. Oh, you didn't? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's got double my dad's followers on Instagram. Just a fact for everybody out there. Yeah, she's pretty well known.

So I'm like the least. least well known. And my mom too, she, uh, she kind of outshines everybody in her family these days, but, um, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I, your entire family is just unique in its own way, but your mom is special. She's fighting right now and, uh, dealing with cancer and, um, yeah, just, I mean, from watching over, I think I've been following along with the shockies, probably, God, I think your dad 25 years ago. I was reading a column he would write. I think it was North American Hunter magazine. He had the back page column and he was always a great writer. And then so from from that and then we went into television or you guys did and you guys were dominating outdoor television

for many years. And now we've kind of evolved and outdoor television has switched gears a little bit and now it's more social media or YouTube or whatever. It's just the climate has changed a little bit. What has this journey been like for you? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's just that. Everything's changing. It's changing faster now than it ever has. When I started, you know, when dad was talking about, yeah, he's writing very successful at that as he kind of isn't with anything, but transition to TV. I remember him talking about it. And he said, hey, you know, there's the outdoor channel. We're going to try and make a TV show here. I'm going to call it Hunting Adventures. And I was like a kid in high school.

And I said hunting grandchery. He was like, great name, dad. Is if that's ever going to work. And he did it. But at that time, you know, that was, you could have a whole career doing that. You could be successful just in the outdoor space. People would know you. It was like a big deal to have a TV show.

And nowadays, like you said, everything is changing so quickly. You know, even with the AI stuff nowadays. I mean, one week, something's popular. the next week it's something else. It's a it's a really turbulent time to be a human but also especially creative. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh do you like it. What do you think? I mean, what do you prefer? Did you prefer the TV setting with the 21 minutes or you guys had the professionals, which I think was an hour long. Yeah, uncharted was an hour. Uncharted. And then what's your preference? Like if you could do whatever you wanted, what would you prefer? I'd prefer there are our

boundaries whatsoever. Yeah, so something like this recent film, once we're wolves, that was a little bit like that. So nobody is saying, hey, it's got to be a certain length. No one's saying, hey, you know, we got to make sure we tell this particular story and people are going to be offended if you tell it in this way. Because, you know, those are all variations of, you know, of reality, of what the truth is, right? Like humans, we love to, we love to kind of twist what the truth really is right like what's what's reality in life we always like we're either we're afraid of it or we don't admit things you know we don't like talking about death for instance you know things that are all things that are looming over us we don't like to dwell too much on sadness or um people's

problems you know you say how are you doing today everybody says I'm great you know they're lying half the time right um so yeah I like I think as again as a creative as a storyteller I'm looking for a way to tell whatever I feel in my heart, whatever the truth is, you know? Honesty, yeah. Yeah, honesty. Yeah, like something that's authentic. Is that, and you felt you were able to do that with once we were wolves?

Yeah, I do. I'm very, again, thankful for you and Kip for allowing me to be on that trip. It's, yeah, again, we could tell whatever story we wanted. You didn't tell me that you wanted me to show anything or not show anything. Kip was the same way. You gave me a lot of time, you know, to kind of figure my way out, you know, around into what the story is and to edit it and to get, you know, where we want it to be. But yeah,

there, yeah, it was a pretty special experience just from, you know, from my side. Because often, you know, even though that's now been released, I just checked it, I think it's like 560,000 views or something in eight days, which is amazing. When you're putting it together, you know, it's just me and another guy on a computer. Yeah. And that's it, you know. How did, where did that concept come from once we were wolves? I mean, because I didn't, that title was a surprise to me. Okay.

Yeah. So tell me where it came from and what it means to you. Okay. I, I worked at a corporate, a corporation years and years ago for a summer, you know, I was in university. And I had an, I don't know, I don't want to speak for everybody, just my experience. Okay. My experience is that people today, and I'm going to say, you know, men mostly, but it's everybody just because, you know, my experience is obviously from working mostly with men.

But we get up in the morning, we brush our teeth, we, you know, have our coffee, we make fruit loops for the kids, take a train or a bus or a car to work. And then we sit in an office for nine hours. And we're under fluorescent lights, and it's necessary, right? I understand that that's necessary, but it's not why we live, in my opinion. And I think that, you know, when I was working in this office space, I would sit there, and be looking at my Excel spreadsheets and look out the window and you see the mountains and the trees and the... What city was this?

This is in L.A., actually. Oh, L.A. Okay. I was in like Orange County somewhere in there. Okay. Yeah, so I didn't see many mountains, but, you know, I was sort of speaking figuratively. Yeah. Figuratively.

And I've always thought that there's just like, there's got to be something in us. It says there's more to living than this. And then so I started thinking, okay, like, why do I feel that way? And if you look back to, you know, way back forever ago, dogs, our dogs, now like I have a little, you know, two pound, I don't know, what is this like a Shih Tzu or something at home. It was once a wolf, right? It once had to, you know, kill things to survive. Right. You know, life or death struggle every day.

And I think that over time, we don't even think about it. And we just see a dog. But that was once in a wolf when I think, you know, humans, there's some similarities there. And it comes out sometimes in feelings that we don't even quite, you know, realize what they are. Right. Yeah, you know, we hadn't even talked about that, really, that I remember. But I defined it the other day because people were like, wait, what do you mean? We weren't wolves.

Right. And I'm like, oh, God. So, you know, sometimes connecting. the dots is difficult for you know everybody has a different mindset they're they're interpreting things differently and so i just explained it kind of like what you did with yes once dogs were wolves and man even though we might be like your shih Tzu or whatever it is your dog back home we're that version as a man compared to what we used to be and so yeah i get the symbolism i get that analogy but i was just curious um how you came up with it and it makes

perfect sense to me. And I think most people aren't, weren't confused by it, but I was just curious how we got to that title. Yeah. I was just, oh, okay, I actually know, there is a movie that I've always loved, I love the name of, and it's actually called Once We're Warriors. And that was made, I think it's in New Zealand. I remember hearing about that. And I thought, wow, that's a freaking awesome name. I love that. And then making this, I was trying to think about what the actual theme of this was like why um you know what's so special about this trouble special you know someone like roy right um to me a guy like roy harkens back to even though i've never met him harkens back to you know the old days and we were wolves right we weren't afraid you know and so yeah that's where

the you know that's where the title came up did you have the idea or the storyline in your head before we went on the hunt no that all came so we experienced the hunt the highs the lows everything we got home and then this concept came in in mind. Is that how it worked? Yeah. So I don't know about you. And, you know, I want to clarify that you and I are both lucky enough to have gone on, you know, lots of adventures in our lifetime. You more so than me.

But, you know, because of who my dad was, I was always, you know, he was taking me all over the world with him. So I'm not trying to imply that this was like, you know, some crazy, ridiculous, unique experience. you know, because I don't think that would be faithful to, you know, again, guys like, you know, my dad who, you know, do that stuff all the time, or like our guy Johnny. Writing. Yeah, I mean, basically lives up there for part of the year, right? Like, in my mind, those are the real, you know, legit, tough guys, right? I agree. Yeah.

But it kind of came to me after when I was on the plane ride home and I was thinking about what happened. And I thought, you know, I was thinking about the blizzard and us being trapped up there. and I think I wrote a social media post about, you know, the idea that we get so comfortable these days, you know, living in our houses where they're air conditioning and like, oh, we're too cold if it's 70. And we're too warm if it's 73. So it's got to be somewhere and they can't decide it's 71 or 72. And then you're up there and you're sitting. And a blizzard socks you in for three days. There's nothing you can do. You go outside, you die. You know, your tent rips. You know, you're in a lot of trouble. That was a unique feeling for me anyway. And so that, you know, sort of down the road of, um, trying to fall like, you know, what, how could I tell an hour long, you know, story that that was true to that sort of feeling that I had at the time. Yeah. Well, you did a great job with it. And, you know, it had been done for, I don't know how long the film had been done

before we released it. I mean, at least a year. I was, yeah, I think like 18 months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I was pretty disappointed. Actually, you should, you know, tell me, I was. definitely when I put that together, I was like, okay, this is going to rock.

And then, you know, we showed you. And I think in the beginning, you were kind of into it. And then, and then, you know, we just kind of sat for a while. Yeah. I mean, the reservation I had and, you know, I shared it with a few people. And it was, and it was what tainted the hunt, I don't want to say tainted the whole adventure because the adventure was special in its own way. But what tainted the hunt for me, was I bow hunt and that's all I do. And the fact that I couldn't get that grisly killed with just my bow, it just felt, I don't know, it just didn't feel good to me.

And it's like, you know, bow hunting means so much to me and I want to protect the integrity of what it means to be a bow hunter and having a rifle come into play kind of soiled that in my mind. And so I just needed, I didn't want people to watch it and think that, oh, so this guy, he bohunts his whole life and he still can't, you know, he can't even, so why are people even bow hunting? Why would you bowhunter grizzly if you can't get it done? And it's not, that's not the case because I have killed a lot of not grizzly, but brown bear, which are bigger than grizzly and a lot of other big animals. So it wasn't the fact that bow hunting quote failed.

It was I failed right in my shooting. And, you know, I didn't make the shot that I needed to make. kill that bear quickly and ethically. And so part of me was like almost selfish maybe. You know, I could say I want to protect bow hunting, but also it was like maybe I was protecting my own ego. I don't know. But after time and I felt like I just felt like more,

I felt not good, but I felt okay with sharing it. Because I don't know why. I actually don't know why. I don't know why. I think, I mean, I can make a stab. First of all, I think that, you know, knowing you now is, as I do from working on the podcast, I think it'd be accurate to say that a lot of what you do in your life, if you feel like something's going to have a negative effect on what you're passionate about, and let's say

bow hunting is a big part of your life, I think that weighs heavily in your decisions. And I don't, I honestly, and you know, I look through the YouTube comments, right, a thousand of them so far. There's a few ones in there that say, hey, you know, Cam, you know, is whatever. He's a pussy because he, you know, some guy shot the, the bear charging at him. And, um, but I don't think that that's what you cared about, you know, knowing you, you don't, you don't care about that kind of stuff. You don't care what other people think.

I think it's, I think it's, you know, you just, you didn't want to have a negative impact on Bowhunting. You didn't want an action you took and a decision you made to, you know, have, make a fewer bow hunters in the world. Mm-hmm. I really think that. I didn't want anybody to be able to use that as an example of why bohunting shouldn't be allowed, essentially, or why it's a less than option with regard to hunting.

Because, and I said this, I don't know where I said it at the comment or a post, but I do think that bohunting is still the most merciful way to kill an animal. Because many times an animal doesn't know it's been hit with an arrow. There's a shock factor with their gun. There's a loud report. There's, you know, devastation because they're killing by shock. So it's breaking bone and ripping apart muscle. And there's no mistake what happened.

Whereas with bow hunting, I've killed a lot of animals that never knew that arrow zip through their chest. And they're out there. They're very physical animals, especially grizzlies or big bulls. And they get jabbed and hit and cut all the time, but they don't get shot all the time. So there's a big difference between an arrow going through them and a bullet going through them. And let's not pretend that every rifle kill is clean either. Sure. You know, with long range shooting in rifles, I think there's plenty of opportunity for people to take a 700-yard shot,

not know exactly where the animal was when they shot, not be able to or the animal doesn't react because it's so far. Or maybe they can't see the reaction so they don't think they hit it. So maybe they don't go follow up. or if they do follow up, maybe they don't go to the exact spot the animal was. So it's not, you know, hunting. And I'm not trying to pick on anything, bow hunting or rifle hunting.

I'm just saying hunting is an imperfect endeavor because there's a human involved and humans aren't perfect. Right. And we're trying to kill something. And death isn't always clean. There's, right. It's, uh,

so nothing is going to be perfect. But in my mind, a merciful bow kill is the best, best death to offer an animal. And I still believe that, despite my failure on the grizzly. But that's my thought of it. So that's like always going in my head. And it's hard to, you know, I got a lot of these bulls here where I can show the video

and I hit the bowl perfect and it ran 50 yards and piled up. So I have evidence there that, see, this is what I'm talking about. And I didn't have it on that one. And that was like, that would wait on me for sure. The funny, you mentioned humans aren't imperfect. Right. And, you know, again, coming from the creative side, looking for stories to tell the best stories,

the stories that matter are the stories where people are imperfect, right? Because that's, again, coming back to, that's real. People are, we are not, other than in Hollywood, right? You know, Arnold, we're not, we're not perfect. Right. And even in Hollywood, all those guys have, you know, they've got flaws. Oh, yeah. Right.

So, you know, again, going back to the movie, that's something that struck me to, you know, the opening scene of that when you're in Alaska. And you can tell, you know, by the way, and I even, this is actually me genuinely surprised at the time. I remember thinking, oh, wow, like this is no joke, you know, you're holding your hands, I think, like this. And looking out the window and you're kind of very subdued, very quiet. You know, you've been, you've been kind of sort of jolly the whole trip, right, because

you're on a hunt and then your, and then your demeanor totally changed. And when you went and visited Roy's, house, that was you being very vulnerable, right? And I mean, you're a like a vulnerable person's not, not the way I would describe you generally. Right. I'd say you're, you're stoic. Right. So, um, I think that, again, talking about the movie, that's the stories that matter, the stories that are most impactful are those that can have an emotional connection between people. And you do that by showing people being vulnerable and saying, I'm just like you. I'm just another human. We're all imperfect. You know, Let's move on.

Share stories move on, but let's not pretend we're something we're not. Right. Yeah, and I think, you know, I don't know. It's like we've both been involved in hunting television for quite a while. You much more than me. I mean, I hated cameras. I hate, I did it because I wanted to hunt more.

And these people would sponsor or pay me to go on hunts. And I was like, I thought this is the greatest life ever. But I didn't like it. And I think it, and I'm not. I don't, you know, we don't need to cite examples, but a lot of people, when you talk about perfection, they would have taken that hunt and that whole rifle part would have been on the cutting room floor. Right. The shot would have been the bow shot and then bear run off and then they go up and recover the bear. It's like no rifle mention, no nothing, just like, oh, yeah, I made a perfect shot and the bear died quickly.

And that's hunting television. Yeah, that is. for a lot of programs because it's selling something. It's like we don't want to show failures, as you mentioned. Nobody likes to. But, you know, being authentic, I think is a big part of hunting. I mean, if you want people to understand hunting, you have to be real. Because hunting is so real.

It's we're out there trying to kill an animal. It's not going to be perfect. There's going to be failures. There's going to be challenges that you didn't foresee that you maybe weren't up to the task. But when you wipe all that out and say, no, every time I go out, I make this perfect shot, this animal dies, everything's good, you know, no harm, no foul. It's not real. Yeah. And I remember I was working for Eastman's and all I wanted my hunts to be back then, and I think they still use the tagline, but I just said this is as real as it gets.

And that's what we're always trying to do for me. I don't know, what's your goal on that? Trying to keep it real always? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, you know, and dad was always like that too. Was he? Right.

Yeah. He was always very much, like, you know, you know, the shot, we're getting very specific down the road here of outdoor TV. But, you know, the shots where the camera be in front of like the hunters and they'd be sneaking up on the animal and the camera guys right in the open. You know, dad was like, no, no, no, we're not doing that. You know, and you get what you get. Right? So I learned working. with him that the best approach was to just be rolling the whole time, which you guys found out

in Alaska when I was rolling when you would wake up your eyes in the morning, open up your eyes in the morning. Yeah. Because you never, you know, that's the real stuff, right? The time spent around the campfires and joking while you're making coffee in the morning, uh, that's, that's endearing. That's, that's part of the adventure. It's not really, I actually think you're, you're doing a little bit of, of a disservice.

If you only show people, you know, an animal being shot. I don't think that's an accurate representation of what you're doing and more importantly, why you're doing it. That's true. And we were kind of handcuffed with outdoor television with 21 minutes. And you had 21 minutes to tell the whole thing. Plus, in that time, you had to also make sure your sponsors were. You know, you had the glassing shot where you could see the loophole or whoever it is. And so that's sort of the hunt.

Yeah. It's not really the hunt. That's like we do what we've got to do because, hey, this airtime. is expensive. Yeah, yeah, of course. And that's why I love the YouTube format nowadays and having that freedom. And you must really love it. But it's like, I think that's how I always had a big problem with, I can't really say hunting

magazines, but it's sort of the same and hunting television because we're only preaching to the choir. People who buy a hunting magazine are hunters. People who watch the outdoor channel, they're already hunting. You're not, you're not. opening the door into like new people. You know what I mean? You're not exposing somebody to our way of life, whereas now we can. You know, we can with YouTube because it's not all sorts of people come across that video. Anyone with the link? And so to me, it's a pretty exciting time to be able to expose people to

to what we do and why it's important without the restrictions of sponsors and different things like that. And I feel like that's where it feel like to me, knowing you now, you've been kind of. kind of biting your time until now, you know, because you're created, you were, you were handcuffed a little bit. I mean, you guys push envelope a lot on the professionals and unchartered as much as you could. But now I feel like it's even to another level. And you can really be as creative if you want, still tell the story you want to tell and the way you want to tell it. That must feel good, huh? Yeah, yeah, it does. Well, and again, that comes because ultimately you say, hey, film what you film, what you film,

on the trip and even though it took you a little bit you're you're you're okay with showing it you know you're okay with me showing you know making a mistake or feeling yeah right and and not everybody is like that so again you know without that i don't think you have you've got a a shell of what the story really is you know it's not authentic anymore yeah it's um how was that i mean you have film me I don't know how many times you'd feel me, but who's worse to film me or your dad? Ooh, good one. Ooh, that's a tough one. You know, you guys are actually a lot of like.

You're very, you're extremely driven and you expect the best from everybody around you. And that, you know, that includes, I mean, everybody from the guides to the camera guys, everyone. and, you know, as I think you should, and both of you operate in, um, oftentimes, you know, dangerous situations like, you know, quote unquote life or death situations. Um, so I would say who, who's harder, who's more difficult. Um, uh, that's a tough one. It might be a tie. Uh, yeah.

Dad was, you know, dad and I had that dynamic because, you know, I'm his son. Yeah. Right. And, um, not only am I his son, but also. You know, if you look at my sister's, you know, history, she, she went into hunting, right? She was in front of the camera on hunting adventures. She was traveling the world with dad and then did her own thing in the hunting space. It was very successful.

And I never did. Right. I had a conversation with dad when I was probably 15 or so. And I remember this to this day because I've never seen my dad shed a tear before, right? He's kind of like, he's very stoic. And we started talking and he was all excited because he wanted to bring me out to the, the White Hill, Stanley out it'll set up, right? And, and, you know, I was like, Dad, I don't think it's for me.

I don't think that purely hunting like that. Like I totally get it. I love what it does, but it's not like I like hunting, but it's not my passion, right? I've got a camera. I want to tell stories. I'm getting to that. This is exciting. You know, and he, it was hard for him to understand that.

Like he did, but I could tell at that moment that hurt him. Because he wants me by the stand and stand with him and, you know, sitting there while the deer are coming in and, you know, put his arm around me, like father, son type thing. Yeah. And I'm kind of telling, I'm saying, like, I'm, you know, my destiny is not in, in that world, I don't think, or at least not in front of the camera in that world. And so that was always, that will always make it a little bit harder for me, a little bit, you know, deeper for me as much as I think you're horrible to be able to. Yeah, it adds to the degree of difficult challenge, I guess, with your dad. I don't know. Maybe not challenge.

I mean, he has to, I think he has to respect your talents, though, because I see him talk about him all the time. And I don't think it's just whatever. Yeah. I'm actually, you know, I'm joking a little bit. Dad and I had, and still do, I still want to, I'm going to mean to you to. I want to call dad up and, you know, do something. do some, you know, some adventure somewhere because we haven't for years, right?

And he's gone, you know, he has his museum there in Canada now. Yeah. But I think that, you know, I'd love to do a film with him, you know, now that both of us have kind of, you know, done different things and gone different ways for a while and come back and full circle and do something like uncharted was again. And, you know, he's just such a, as much as I'm joking about it, but both you and him are, you know, well, the ones who are wolf things, right? You guys are the, in my mind, sort of represent.

the wolves. Yeah, he, man, he's just iconic. Everybody knows Jim Shockey, but now, and it's like, it's weird how time passes and people get older and things change. And like, there's sometimes I even think that like there's bow hunters right now who might not even know who Fred Bear is. You know what I mean? So now there could be people who've watched what we do who know you from this, but don't really know your dad. Yeah, that's crazy. Isn't that? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Time never stops. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Because he hasn't been on TV as much, you know, and it hasn't been the thing. So it's just like, to me, I think something like that, if for no other reason, it just keeps that, I mean, he's still here. Yeah, he's still here. He's still here. It's like, don't forget Jim Shockey.

He was the original, you know, badass hunter, you know. I mean, the bandana, the pants tucked in the socks, the socks on the arms. Sox on his arms. I mean, he was the no-guff, as real as it gets, original. Yeah. And pave the way in hunting television for what a lot of guys do now. And your creativity of telling those stories played a big part of that. And so it's, I hate the, I mean, archery to me, and hunting in general is about tradition.

and heritage and paying homage to those before us. And that's why, you know, a film with your dad, if you guys, I don't know, I mean, it would be, you know, maybe he's not as good as he once was back in the day, but it'd still be a pretty amazing story. I bet he can still get after it. He's a tough guy. Yeah, he and I would never, you know, dad is one guy. I've learned many times in life. Anytime I think, oh, you know, I don't think he can do that, right?

I don't think he can start this museum in the middle of a small town I grew up in and it'd be some huge success. Don't underestimate him. No, he's kind of like you. He just, he just, he sets his sights on something and that's it. You know, it doesn't matter why people say. It doesn't matter if it's supposed to be impossible. He just does it. And so actually, I'm going to call him after this.

I'm going to see if successful. I guarantee you he would he would do it. He'd be great. Yeah. Yeah. His is a Hand of Man Museum? Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I mean, I think he also, another part, when I think of Jim Shockey, of course, the adventures. But also the, you know, the places where he'd go and the places he'd hunt is the people that he interacted with. That was always a big part of your show. Huge. Is, you know, learning different cultures and sharing those cultures. And so that's what the museum is doing, a big part of it, right? Yeah.

Because it's a history of the animals, but all. also of the culture. Yeah. Well, yeah. So remember, and Kipp said this in the Once for Wolves movie, he said that hunters, you know, used to be explorers. Explorers were hunters, right? Like that's a big part of why you would go over the next mountain pass or you try and,

you know, fall the caribou, whatever you're doing because you're looking to, you know, survive for sustenance and you had to explore. Right? And then that evolved into, you know, obviously there's, you're not climbing up Mount Everest to eat dinner that night, right? That's a little different. But then that got tied into. hunting is now because we don't necessarily go hunt only because you know we can go buy our food

from the grocery store right so why do we go why do we go why do we go hunt why do we go why do we go hunt you know whatever moves and i remember asking dad that and uh you know because i you know i went through my high school phase and i was kind of like you know wondering about you know the world and like why people do things and he said i remember this uh he said he he said there's a guy named george mallory right george mallory i don't know if you're familiar you for yeah okay so uh he was you know, one of the most famous climbers, and he was trying to climb Everest way back before they ever did. And, uh, a reporter went up to him. You know, I think, I think it was in London or something, right? And he said, uh, you know, why would you want to climb Everest? And Mallory said,

because it's there. Right. And like, you know, I thought about that. I'm like, you know, that, that's all you really need. Yeah. Right. That's it's there. Yeah. It's, uh, to me hunting is that the ultimate test, you know, because we don't have to do it. But, but, you know, but, you know, But if you do delve into it, you're going to have to be at your best to get it done out there. And some of those wild hunts, there's all sorts of different types of hunts. But the hunts that we love in the mountains, it's a big test. You're tested in every way possible, physical, mental, emotionally. And that's what I love about it.

Because these animals, you know, they're not going to, they're not cutting you any slack. They don't care how hard you worked. They don't, you know, I mean, it's just. you've they're built to survive if we do it right we're built to kill because that's what man has done that's how we've survived we have to kill that's life begets life begets death this is how it works um so when we're at our best they're at our best we're at our best that's a chess match yeah and that's the test right and then the reward for that test is yeah you got some meat you got some meat for your family but it's that's just a part of it's there's a hundred different parts to it right

You know, but the biggest part is it's a, it's a, you're testing yourselves. Right. You know, I was thinking, I wonder, even though I had reservations about sharing it, I think that that part of me, you know, not making a perfect shot, do you think that that made the film better? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It added a different storyline.

Yeah, I mean, and obviously I would never wish. you know, for a bad shot, right? It's not like I'm holding the camera thinking, like, oh, I really hope Cam makes a horrible shot here. But the fact that, and, you know, and also there's an element, I think people think, oh, like, films or hunting films in particular, they're only good if they're, you know, something dangerous happens, right? And I don't believe that's true.

I don't, I think that's a very minor part of it. And, you know, you can quickly look online and see people in the world doing way more dangerous stuff than what we were doing, right? Yeah. You know, look at all the, you know, Ukraine videos right now. Oh, right. So, but yeah, I think that it showed, again, it showed you, you know, Cam Haynes, you're not supposed to, or at least people in their minds, their perceptions, you don't fail at things, right?

You wake up in the morning, you run 26 miles, whatever it is. You can do it every day. You don't complain. And they saw you make a mistake, even with all the, everything else, even with being as perfect as you could be on the training side, you made a mistake. And that, again, shows you as being vulnerable. And I can only keep hitting on that, but that's what it is. And the truth and vulnerability are kind of hand in hand.

It's just real life. Yeah. And I think that plays into the film. But I would, I would have, if you would, you would never say this, but if you would have said, you know, cut that out, make it look like I just made a perfect shot. I would have done it, to be honest. I would have so fine. But I wouldn't have respected you the way I do now in the future.

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and I was at full draw the first time and I know you were upset I didn't shoot this because it was perfect I was in perfect spot the light everything was perfect but the bear was slightly quartering to me ever so slightly and it's like as a bow hunter and I never you know I think the best bow hunters

and I'm not saying I'm good I've just saying I've been out there a lot and it's just like it's angles of the animal if you're going to kill with an arrow everything has to be you have to be as perfect as you can as far as when you're going to shoot so i was a full draw bear is at 50 some yards slightly quartering and i said i was thinking to myself i don't want to take a quarter and two shot and i'm looking at the exact angle and it's just like then the bear turned a little bit got even worse than kind of straight on so that's when i i let up but but But when you're thinking about everything in that small of detail, you have to be looking at everything, every factor, feeling the wind on your face,

reading that bear's body language. And I was just staring and you don't want to stare right in the eyes. I had my head down a little bit because those animals can feel that. They feel something if you're staring. And, you know, a prey animal can feel a predator staring at them for whatever reason, the sixth sense. And so you, to me, I'm always like looking at their feet or their hooves or whatever I'm hunting. I'm never looking at their eyes because when you lock eyes with something, it knows. Wow. So I'm just like watching that bear peeking under my brim and I'm like, I got to

wait. And then bear went and got more quartering to or more broadside, less quartering to. And then I thought, this is it. And for whatever reason, I was a couple inches to the left. And, you know, obviously bear was hurt because it let five guys get within whatever. Yeah. All of us were within probably 40 yards of it or 30 yards. So it was close. It was close to, you know, maybe if we would have waited, you know, five more minutes, maybe the bear would have been dead.

But it wasn't. But it's just like I've thought about that so many times that shot. And what was I thinking? And what did I do? How did I screw that up? Because I thought I was being disciplined. I thought I was doing everything right. I wasn't even, I never get nervous now.

No matter what the animal is, I'm just like, no, this is what I do. I just got to, you know, this is what I do. And I still don't know what happened. And it's just like, that's like, it just eats me up. Yeah. You know, when dad was like that, too. If he ever made a bad shot, I would, it would haunt him. And it's not because of, you know, I think there's a little bit there because he, like you,

put his life and soul into being a hunter. That's what he did, right? That's what he does. That's literally who he is, right? Jim Shockey, the hunter, right? So part of it is he wants to be good. But I were just like, this is identical to what he would go through. If he ever made a bad shot, you know, he was shooting a muzzleloader, so there's some variability there.

he would never ever ever would he i never heard him once say hey you know that was somebody else's fault right it's not the guy's fault it's not the camera's fault it's not no it's me i decided to pull trigger i made a bad shot but he would beat himself up over it just like you're and he would and i just i mean you know for hours hours and days you know just going through his man and he repeated he'd he'd watch a footage a bunch of times he talked to me about i talked to the guy about it um and it was hard for me to understand at the time like why was he beating himself up so bad over this. But, you know, now spending time with you, I understand that a little bit more, right?

It's not just about, you know, it's not an ego thing. There's more to it than that. It's almost like you're not being true to yourself. Like you're kind of like, this is supposed to be who you are. And you made, you weren't, I don't know, you weren't perfect. Yeah. How I always looked at it is when I was just first getting sponsored, first getting opportunities, I always thought that they could hire anybody to go out there and fuck up.

Yeah. Anybody can do that. They hired me because I got it done. I got it done every single time. So that's what that was the expectation. It's not to go out and like just go have a good trip and if you fail is fine. No. I need to succeed every single time.

And actually, you know, I was working. I killed four bulls one time, and I was hosting this TV show, and they said that there's concerns that you make it look too easy. And I was just like, so I'm getting beat up now for being too prepared and too ready and being too good at this. I felt like I thought that was the hardest thing for me to take, and I quit working for this, that place because I can't be, trying to be my best and then also judged for being, getting it done.

Right. Right. So, yeah. See, but I love, there's part of this that I like because, you know, again, I'm not, you know, I haven't been doing this for 50 years or anything, but I, I've, uh, a gray hairs on the side of my head. I'll tell you, I've been here long enough now on the hunting industry side to see an evolution, right?

Right. I remember we were doing the professional series. And if we didn't have a kill shot and we would call them kill shots, we didn't have a kill shot. We have a kill shot in every episode. It's not an episode. That's it. So if you'd have 13 episodes in a season, you need 13 kill shots minimum. And often too per episode because our perception was that's what people want to see.

Now we got to, we had a trip to Nepal. And it was, you know, for me being, you know, even though, again, like I said, I love hunting. I love being a part of it, being part of the venture. But Nepal, even though it wasn't the most successful, hunt per se it's not like we're you know hammering animals every day stacking them up yeah right it was a hell of an adventure and i remember that i mean because you guys were in the some little i don't know if it's a town or a village but weren't they having a ceremony and that wasn't their dead body was that the place yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so we're yeah cat man do and they're they're literally burning them i remember that

i can still smell it because it has a particular type of smell and they're burning a body right in front of us um you know and just and and um so that was in the city but then outside you know and you know and moments we got to the hunt in the mountains for the channel, right? They want 13 episodes. And we had to make four episodes out of the Nepal series, okay, of our Nepal trip. And it was only 10 days long. And we got back to the edit suite and episode three, I started cutting it together. And episode three had no kill shots.

And I remember sitting with dad and saying, okay, we're going to release an episode. And this is, you know, that was everything back then to me, right? I mean, I think don't have the impression that, you know, I was drive around in Bentley's or anything and, like, crazy successful. What was everything? What do you mean? Like the series, the success show was everything to me. Right? So if it failed, I mean, it's like I'm, you know, finding another job. And so we sat down and we said, okay, we're going to do episode three and there's not going to be a kill shot because we don't have enough. And we said, okay. And dad said, yeah, let's try. But that was like unheard of. Hunting shows don't don't do that. Well, I don't really remember the kill shot. I mean, on any of the shows. Right.

But what I remember is that ceremony. Right. And that's the thing. That's to your point. We don't give people, and particularly hunters, we don't give ourselves enough credit. There's more to us than just going out there and drinking beers and hammering animals. That's not who we are. Right.

And that was our most successful, you know, four-part series we've ever done. And there was never a single complaint there was in a kill shot, just like what you said. Right. Like I said, I don't remember. Right. Yeah, I think that is the, yeah, we, you know, and maybe that's just how it works. That's how at first, yeah, to keep people's attention, you know, because we're competing with Hollywood movies where there's shootouts and, you know, naked women and freaking, who knows what, money and cars and it's like explosions. And now you're supposed to have somebody watch a hunt with no kill shot.

Yeah. that's tough because of the attention span that's why it's crazy to see I mean it's crazy but it's also pretty cool to see we had an hour long film once we were wolves and even in this day and age of like what they say like on social media if you don't have their attention in two or three seconds on your reel then you lost it so the attention span is two to three seconds and we had an hour

long film and this many people have watched it right I mean yeah I don't know what it means, but I like it. Well, I think it means that even though, yeah, there's computer, I don't know what, you know, there's AIs, computer banks, all kinds of people, literally trying to figure out a way to keep us glued onto these screens, right? Right. And they're damn good at it. Like, I mean, I admit it. Sometimes I get lost in there.

And, you know, honestly, I blink. I'm watching like a cat video. And like, what am I doing? Yeah. But I think it says something that, you know, a few dudes can go out into Alaska and not really even be thinking about what we're filming, but just be true enough and like authentic enough and then come back. And that catches people's attention and has an emotional impact way more than, you know, the 30 second cat videos can ever do. There's they, as good as, you know, the Zuckerberg's and the, you know, whoever the, the computer is running on that stuff, as good as they are. they don't fully understand, I think, who we are, right, deep down somewhere.

And maybe we don't fully understand, but like something resonates. And I think that, you know, that trip, it's not, it's not, I don't even think it's the hunting element that really resonated. I think it's like, more like the brotherhood element, like the, yeah, there's something there that that resonates with people. And I, um, truth of me, I don't always know that, right? Like, I don't, when we released that, I didn't know that that was going to resonate like it did.

I'm very happy to hear that. But, yeah. Um, anyway, I'm very lucky to have the opportunity to even to, try to attempt to tell a story like that. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I expected when we released it, I expected a lot of negativity. Yeah, me too. And yeah, I think there's, I remember one that said,

something like I was walking around trying to act like a badass the whole time or something like that. And I'm like, oh, man, I don't. I don't know. You didn't look like a badass with your eye covers on at night. I don't remember trying to act like a badass. I don't know. It's weird when you read some of these things and then you are watching it.

I'm like, what am I missing? What are they seeing? Where am I acting like a bad ass? It didn't seem like it turned to act like a badass, but I don't know. It's just weird. I mean, you're crying on front of 500,000 people. I don't get it. I don't get it.

But the point is, I expected a lot more of that because and I don't you know I try to be pretty authentic with what I do you know everybody kind of slants it to make themselves look good sure just like whatever yeah turn not to be too crazy with that um but uh I expected because I failed it was going to be like a open season on bashing me you know what I mean because hunters it's weird hunters can be God the most judgmental it feels like and I think it's because all hunters think they're the biggest badasses out there. I guess I'll include me because I was walking around like a badass apparently. But

everybody thinks that they would make the perfect decision. They watched the film. They said, oh, you should have done this. I was stupid to do that. This and that. I expected a lot more of that. And it's like there hasn't been that much. Mostly what it's been is that, I can't remember

how it was worded. How did we word that? Where we opened the door into or they made a connection from hunter to non-hunter. Do you remember how we worded that? I wrote it. I think maybe Kip said it. But anyway, it showed people who hadn't grown up hunting our whole lives.

It showed them there was more to hunting than maybe what they thought. Sure. And it was just like it was just that the open the window into, I don't know. I can't remember how we worded it, but it made a lot of sense. And it was just like it did something different than most hunting films do, I think, is the point to that. Right. Which, again, in today's world where you're inundated with noise, right, digital noise is everywhere. It's hard to get away from.

I don't, I personally try not to take that lightly. So if I see someone say, hey, on a comment, I'm paraphrasing, you know, hey, I watched that film and I just wanted to say that this weekend, I'm taking my boys out into the wilderness. you know instead of doing whatever else we're going to do uh because i watched that and that was inspiring and and way to go like that kicks ass that to me that's it like kib talks about in the film he said uh you know what you want to be known as right i don't know what exactly you want to be known as i think it's i'm getting to take guesses but you could say it better um but that's uh that's a special thing like where where i see an impact that you're having right and it's hard to see that sometimes i think probably for everybody for me you know sitting from my laptop you know at 10 o'clock

at night and you're like wondering what the hell am I doing and moving the color wheels around adjusting the shit but you see that when people send messages like that so that that I mean I don't know about you but that that's why I do it that that gets me up in the morning thinking okay like I can I can leave the world a better place than uh then you know when I came into it yeah yeah you made an impact on people it was it so you said it was pretty frustrating not to release that did you did you, I think you said you're surprised by the response, but, you know, as a filmmaker, man, you're, you're creating something and you want to share it. Yeah, right?

Sure. Yeah. So, I don't know. I mean, did you feel like that was your best work and it wasn't being shared or wasn't, you weren't able to impact people? Yeah. Because you never told me that. Well, because I, okay, yeah, I talked to Kip.

And because I was, you know, I wasn't pissed, but I was like, okay, Cam's not going to do this. But like, honestly, I was like, I put a shit ton of work into this. And he just doesn't want to release it. And I don't quite understand why. I mean, but I get it. And so I talked to Kip about it. And he's like, you know, he walked me through it. And he said, yeah, I think you should release it too.

But, and, you know, again, this is similar with dad to growing up. I, I didn't think it'd be very fruitful if I said, hey, Cam, I think you're, messing up here, you know, because I put a bunch of work into this. Like, you owe it to me to release this film. Yeah. I don't think so. I don't think that's the right way. I approach it, A, it's not really what it's about.

It's not my reputation on the line, right? It's not my career on the line. You know, I can move on from this. If no one ever sees it again, you know, it would be something I can show my grandkids one day. And say, hey, this is the unreleased, you know, special film or whatever. But, no, I, even though I didn't understand the reason necessarily, I understood that, and I saw that this was important to you. that the perception of bow hunting is, is it for you, right? Like, why are you here on the earth?

I mean, this is part of why you're here, right? And so I get it. Yeah, I mean, and also I think I finally got to the place where I was good with it because I wanted people to understand Roy and his impact. And I thought that with your film, you did a masterful job of telling that story, the Roy story. and, you know, he, you know, his legend lives on with that film.

And also, I think, you know, as hunters, I think people will go back and watch that film when they're trying to explain something to somebody or they're trying to like, you know, here's what I was talking about. Like, this is what hunting means. And like, that is a frame of reference now. You know what I mean?

Without that, if I never saw the light of day, maybe hunting couldn't move forward if it does. Maybe hunting would have lost something along the way because, I don't know, I want to say selfishly, but because of whatever was going on in my own brain, I didn't want to release it. And maybe it could have helped a handful of people put words into why they do what they do.

Right. Or what the mountains mean to them or what their friend who they've lost meant to them or something. So it's like it's bigger than a hunting film. And so I thought I thought we owed it to not to the craft, not to the adventure, just owed it to why we're here to share a big part of my life. Yeah. Of your life as a creator. Yeah. Of Kip's life as wanting to be a badass killer mountain man. I felt like I was handcuffed. that. Let's look at Kip for a second. Okay. Um, Kip is, uh, you know, ridiculously successful, right? I mean, he co-funded under

armor. Okay. I mean, that's, but as yeah, not, not, not, not a whole lot more you can really do, right? And most people think. And here he says, um, and he'll tell you this, you know, today, I just want to be a badass mountain guy, right? That, that stuff where I'm wearing the suit, that isn't me, right? Got caught up in this stuff. Corporate ding dong is what he said. Yeah, that's not who he wanted to be, right? He has this, and everybody, you know, on Instagram and all, like the money side and all that. That's success, right? Oh, wow. You know, he's, he's in a company that got put on a stock exchange. That, that's a successful life, right? But Kip wasn't fulfilled by that. I think that, you haven't talked about that yet, but that, I mean, that's a really interesting thing.

Like, to me, in my mind, I'm like, what? Like, really? Do you really think that Kip or you just doing that because it's a perception thing? But no, I mean, this is, that's, I mean, I've been to Kipp's, you know, place where he lives and stuff. It's nothing fancy. You know, he's not, he's not living some crazy corporate life on a yacht. And then pretending to, you know, being in Alaska and post Instagram pictures. Like he's, he wants to be a mountain man like Roy. And you look at Roy, right? Comes from, you know, financially anyway, you know, like modest setup.

But he, that story you told about him where he said, he was with a pilot and he's like, you know, I want to take me out hunting. And the pilot said, oh, I can only get you 30 miles away or whatever. And Roy said, great, you know, drop me off there. that is there's almost like a freedom in that or something there's like you like you just I don't know it's it's I don't have the answer to this but it's an interesting thing to from a creative side from a story side to look at a guy like Kip and a guy like Roy and say why does Kip you know what what what is he seeing Roy like what what is what's the essence like what's what's Roy tapped into that that Kip hasn't yeah it's um yeah the the

The money is, it's a measure that a lot of people use for success. The money, the cars, the vacations, the women. That's like an easy one. That's a low-hanging fruit. Like you're successful, you have this stuff. To Roy, and why he impacted people is because he would, he would just go further and do more and get it done and it was just tougher. And so for a man, what is there better than being tough?

Yeah. I mean, society will tell you you don't need to be tough. You know, you need to accept your feminine side or whatever bullshit they're trying to say. But for a man, they want respect and they want to be tough. That's what we're, everybody respected Roy. And everybody said he was the toughest guy out there, toughest guy on the mountain. And so, yeah, he is the standard. Right. To guys who really get it, who are honest with themselves. Not the guys who want the Lamborghini or the, the, or going to, you know, Milan on vacation. Yeah, in the clubs, in the drinks. And it's like, that shit, what the fuck is that? That doesn't mean anything. Yeah. There's millions of people who have that. Right.

Not millions of people can go and tell a pilot, drop me off as close you can give me. If that's 30 miles, fuck it, I'll walk. Yeah, fuck it. And that's freedom. And so a guy like Kip, one of the most successful business guys, you know, basically in America, if he looks at Roy and says, that's the person, that's the type of man that I want to be. imagine how many others are out there. How many other guys are sitting in their offices,

looking out the window, saying like there's, there's got to be more than this. And not, and I don't even know if they'd, like, I'm fortunate enough. I mean,

shoot, I grew up in a, you know, with my dad, right? So, I mean, I saw,

you know, what quote unquote, like, you know, the traditional view of a man like is, right? Um, but I don't think, like,

that's the exception to the, to the norm, right? I think mostly, I'm not sure if they know. Yeah. You know, they got athletes and things like,

But I don't, I think they look out the window and they're like, oh shit, there's got to be something. But they don't understand what the solution is. Like what are they even missing? They don't. And hopefully, you know, and again, you know, I hope this impacts people. I hope films like this or other films that look at this, look at, like a brotherhood going out or friends going out and doing hard, dangerous, adventurous things. Like that will start to kind of have the pendulum swung this way. We'll start to swing a little bit back.

You don't get, maybe we'll go too far eventually. I don't know. But like, well, I don't know. I just, I just think there's something missing for a lot of guys out there. Yeah. And that's why I think that the film does resonate with a lot of, a lot of people. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, and it's, you know, I've talked about this, but writing a story about or a book about Roy stories.

Because he's got, you know, we, you know, the one, the 30 miles, that's one. But he's got so many. and I have he would send me all his photos and uh you know I would write articles because he wouldn't write an article he wouldn't talk about himself can I say a question so did Roy I'm just thinking about this as you're saying did Roy ever say hey like I want to be like like that guy because when I see videos of Roy I see him saying things like this is what we do this is who we are you know this is was he confident in that or was he when we were young we had people we looked up to for sure. You know, I mean, you know, Wayne and I talked about this on my podcast with him.

There was a Jim Hodson. He was a dentist here in Oregon. And he came into the slideshow at the Boerac, you know, 100 years ago, 30 years ago. And we were watching his slides from Codiac Island and he took great photos. And he had this big album. And I still remember it as like a big photo album and had all his kills and all his memorable photos, 8 by 10, glossy, in this photo album. And so he'd bring these photo albums and we'd just be sit there and looking at them. And, you know, we were, we were very young at this time, but it had a big impact on us. So Jim, Jim, Jim Hotson, you know, of course, we'd, we'd watch elk fever with Larry Jones and Dwight Shoe. So when we were young, there was guys, you know, Chuck Adams was killing so much.

And, you know, he would, he would kill. I remember one year he killed, I think it was 10 poping young animals and I'm like you know a poping young animal is hard to get one I think I'd got like maybe a couple at that time and then I'm like this guy can kill 10 in the season and now he's killed five or six world records and so that was they were always the guys who yeah we looked up to but then and I'm not saying that's changed because I still have people that I revere and for their hunting ability and just for their their ability to write convey through words the adventure and how they felt during that hunt that writing is always powerful and then your filmmaking you know there's always people like that who tell a story in a way because hunting is stories that's what it is it's like yeah

you're the only one living in but how it lives on is through your story whether that's the written word or film right so all we're doing is like and i've said that a lot it's like do you have a story to tell i'll meet somebody and i'll say tell me a story that's all it is so there's still people who we'd always like, man, this guy's got some stories. Yeah. You know, and that's what you always say. You always look at somebody and go, but he's got some stories to tell,

whether it's guys who served in the military, guys who have hunted, guys who've done these, what we're doing in life is making a story, right? Yeah. And so the more you have, to me, that's the more success you have. And the stories that mean the most are the ones where there's the most peril involved,

or the most unknowns involved. And that's not in the, the city at the clubs that's in the mountains yeah and so we always had roy would just be like he's the guy who people would say did you hear about roy here's what he did wow he was the guy who had the stories who was who's living the stories that people would talk about so if people aren't talking about you we were like you know if we were doing it right how we wanted everybody had a story so we would just be like, yeah, we're out here and we want, you know,

Cam and Roy stories. What these guys do? And so we that's what we always wanted to go and, you know, the more crazier it got, the bigger smile we'd have. And, you know, when I killed that

that doll sheep with Roy on Pioneer Peak, that was, that was a story. That was the hunts that we loved. It was rugged, it was dangerous, it was hard. And that was it. That's really profound, actually. I've never thought about it like that. So you're almost saying like your metric for like how much, you know, quote unquote success you've had is the quality and the number of stories that

you have. And probably in those days, you know, around the campfire. Yeah. Yeah. And that goes back, you know, however many thousands and thousands of years. I mean, that's, that's incredible. That's it. Yeah. Telling stories. I mean, you know how it. it is when you meet somebody and they just tell a great story. Yeah. And everybody's listening. The problem is the worst part of that is people who think they have good stories and their stories suck.

And they just want to shut the fuck up. So, but Roy always had the best stories. And then he always had a joke. And he always, he was just like, he was like, I don't even know what. He was one of a kind. And I've said that before. But he was truly one of a kind. a kind. And there was a certain thing about him when I was with him and we were hunting,

I felt invincible because of how he carried himself and his, just how we spoke to each other. And like there was a time where I killed a grizzly and I didn't have it on the, on the film. But this, a sow, I killed his bore, the sow heard the, you know, wasn't, very far away, but the arrow hit the bore. The board took off. Obviously, it was making noise when it took off. I think they can hear so much better. I didn't hear anything, but the bear knew something happened. And then we were on the tidal flas and tall grass and she stands up and she's looking around and sees my bear is out there about 130 yards and piled up. And so she ran, it's like goes over the blood trail, blood trailed him out to where he died. And then she just

starts tearing him up, like hide going, biting him, attacking him. And Roy had a gun. I was bow hunting. And I said, I didn't want him to shoot the bear, but I said, she's tearing on my bear. And I said, shoot out there. And so he, you know, scare her off. So he shoots and she didn't do anything. And I'm like, God, shoot again.

I said, gay, bear, get off that. Get out of there. And I said, get off my bear. I was yelling. He shoots. And then she kind of snaps out of it and heard me yelling. and the gunfire. She looks, and it's just, again, this is like thigh-high grass.

So she looks and just sees us and just beeline and just sprinting. You know, and Grizzlies can run, or this is a brown bear because it's all right off the ocean. But running fast and, you know, Roy's getting ready. He had already shot a couple times. And so he's down to like one shell in his gun. And Johnny Rivett was filming at this time. And we knew we were down to one shell. and Roy said if she crosses the creek,

and we were right on the bank of the creek, he goes, I'm going to have to shoot her. And, you know, I knew he was down to one. So I told John and said, hey, where's that extra ammo, you know? And so the bear comes over and stands out 20 yards away. And I have my bow there. It's all I had. Roy had the gun.

And we're yelling at the bear. And even during this whole time, I never once felt anything, like fear who's never worried. I think probably because Roy was there. And I'm just like what I mean. Yeah. It's just it was another part of the adventure.

It's just like, yeah, we're going to, you know, we'll see what happens. This bear comes over here. So the bear drops down and just starts charging right at us from 20 yards. And Roy shoots and hits it. Like, right, I don't know where he's aiming, but, you know, it's happened fast. but he hit off her head and hit right in between the shoulder and the neck and just dropped the bear. So at 375 Magnum and dropped the bear and folded it up.

And all we could say, you know, I just started cussing. And this is on the film. Like I said, I didn't put it out. But we have it. You know, it was a defensive life and property kill. So we, you know, it was legal and everything else. But all I remember saying on the film was I was like, fuck. and I'm just like, God damn it.

And he's like, he goes, I do it, I had to. And I said, I know, I just didn't want to have to kill another bear. I said, I don't want to kill this bear. And so we were never like concerned about anything. We were just upset. We had to, you know, he killed this charging bear. But the point is, it's like those type of things happened a lot, it felt like. Right.

Because when you're in Alaska and you're, you know, you go in the wild. it's there's no rules. Yeah, it's like, it's a different, it's like a different planet almost. It's a different world. Yeah, you get, you don't worry about shit like, you know, I don't know, you know, there's no, you know, you're going to get a speeding ticket. No. You know, or the line up at Starbucks. Like, the things you worry about are like totally different than what you would normally even consider.

Right. That's, I don't have, you know, and that's interesting you said that I'm feeling invincible with Roy, because, you know, that's almost, you know, with my dad growing up. I don't even think about it. You know, he did, I mean, he wasn't going out of his. way to bring me into dangerous situations. But, you know, we did some crazy stuff. We're in Africa for, you know, a month, sleeping on the ground. And there'd be lions and stuff around. And I remember, you're never concerned. Well, I wasn't because I didn't, I honestly, I didn't know any different. I mean, I, dad's like, you're, you know, coming with me on this big giant, you know, worldwide

trip and, and I'm hunting just a normal and that's it. So, okay, this is where you sleep time. Okay, no problem. But I remember we were hunting, uh, what was, I think he was leopard hunting. And I mean, that's a pretty grueling thing. You know, you're in a back of a truck for like 18 days you're driving around but you know oftentimes you're sitting in a blind in the morning and it's pitch dark so you know whatever 4 a am like like proper dark and uh dad was a muzzle hunt a muzzle hunter and so he he um we're sitting this little tiny blind and one i'm about to tell you is pretty common i think but i didn't realize this you know in africa um and uh it was super dry uh i was like a high school kid and I was having really bad nosebleed. So I was, you know, I had like a big wad of

tissues and I'm trying to stop my nose from bleeding and it's, you know, kind of dripping on my hands and stuff. I can feel in the dark, but you can't see anything. So my nose is bleeding and and there are no leopard, but we hear lions calling the distance, right? And you know, I can't do it, but that, I can't do it, but that, I mean, literally the sound. Yeah. I mean, the sound. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that. Right. Well, a little bit more like deeper than that. Yeah. But, you know, the literal. There's no mistaking what it is. Yeah. You're like, whatever the fuck that is, it sounds big.

Right. Yeah. I mean, we are hardwired to like, you know, fear that basically. And over there, at least where we were, lines that night do not fear humans. I mean, like, not at all. I mean, you're just another, you know, you're a prey animal at that point. And so we were sitting there and the roaring came closer and closer and closer. And I was thinking, okay, this is, you know, seems a little weird.

Can't see anything. And then they get closer enough for the rowing stops. and we just start hearing, you know, padded footsteps, right? And, and, and then, and this is when I start thinking about my nosebleed. And I'm like, oh, this probably isn't great, you know. So blood, yeah. Yeah. And so the, the lions start patting right around the tent.

And then they start huffing. So they make this like huffing, like, and blowing under the tent, you know, trying, because I think, you know, they see this, it's not a big tent, right? So it's a tiny little, you can barely thin. Yeah, blind. Yeah, blind. And the only thing separating, you know, mean my and my bloody nose from, you know, a pack of lines is a little, the film in the tent, right? It's nothing.

Yeah. The guide said, Mike fell, I think it was, and he said basically the lines have, you know, five zippers on each hand. Yeah. They don't want to use them, right? Right. And later, because, again, pitch black, no one in Kentucky, can't make a sound. The Mike told us that, you know, they're trying to get you to run. They don't know.

They don't know. They're not sure. They want a reaction. They want a reaction, right. If you run out, they're dead. Yeah. And that was the first time when I thought, holy shit, this is, you know, okay, this is a little bit, you know, dad, I'm maybe not quite as invincible as I thought. Yeah. You know, just because dad's here doesn't mean shit, really. I mean, in this scenario. Right. And so, you know, they're knocking down branches and they're hitting the tent and stuff. And I remember my heart rate going up. Yeah.

And I was like, okay, I'm actually, you know, this is, this is not a good feeling. But anyway, so not as amazing as your story, but it's, like you said, if you're measuring the success of your life by the quality and quantity of stories. then you have to go and do things outside the norm. You're not going to do that going out to the clubs, not the type of stories you want to spread. Yeah, it's a, but what a great story you have. You know, I mean, that is a great story. Because a lion, people can visualize that. People aren't, most people are never going to be in that situation.

But your story puts them there. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like, it's, uh, I just think it's so powerful. So to me, the second most important thing besides having a good story is being around outliers and spending time with people who like have achieved greatness in whatever field they are or they're in.

And so that's where like even this series, this lift run shoot series is selfishly. It's me being able to like, oh, I got this excuse. We're going to film this. I'm going to give you a bow. mostly I'm just like buying their time. I just want to spend time with these people. Sure. You know?

And so if it's not for adventures like with people like Roy or out there just in the, in the wild of the most wild country, then it's like at least I could in between those type of adventures, I'll spend time with badasses. And so that's where, you know, you've been so instrumental in the lift, run, shoot series, the podcast where we talk to Outlif,

and it's like, to me, it feels like meaningful and a meaningful existence, you know, and that's what we want, right? We want to, you know, you want to look around and be like, what is the fucking point to all this? Right. And going to a regular job and doing that, yes, we have to do that because we have to support our family, but sometimes you look, you might look in the mirror and you wonder, what is this it? Right.

And that's where those experiences, and if you can't do them, maybe we could, the best we can is share them. Of course. Share that story. So that's what to me, that's the, the best part of, the second best part of what we do is being able to share that story. And like having you captured on film because I trust so much like I trusted Roy that we were always going to get out of every situation, I trust you with the camera to be like, well, whatever the fuck happens, it's going to be cool on film. You know what I mean? And so I have that. amount of trust for you in your profession is how I see it. And that's why the film yet took a while, but man, it feels, it feels good for you to have the impact.

I think, or the platform, I'm not saying you never had a platform, but man, this is, you know, it's reached a new audience. And that is so exciting for me to, to our people who wouldn't know the shockies, wouldn't know Branlin or Brandon Shockley Would know Bram Branlon Shockey And now they do

And God I just love it Oh thanks Cam Well we gotta We gotta talk about What's next What is next? Yeah I don't know

I don't know I don't How do we top that? Well we could do nothing You know And then sort of just live Like care Live in the past

Yeah Just rest on our laurels Yeah Do you know what laurels means? I have an idea. People don't. Explain it to me.

No. Yeah. What, you know, we had a, so we hunted elk in Utah. Yeah. And so how'd that go?

You screwed that up? Well, I could release the footage, if you'll let me this time. And I think, is it powerful? I think it's pretty clear that the camera guy had,

there's nothing I couldn't have done to have shown that elk. I couldn't even. shown an ear of that elk or a hook or anything of it, other than just you shooting the bow and then looking back and said, did you get it? And what was the answer? Well, give some context to the answer.

You shot the elk and I don't even know what you're looking at. I could never see it. But where I can, you know, because as a camera person is when you're trying to get the perfect shot, right? You got to stand a little bit further back. I can't be right over your shoulder. But you should have been up high enough. I mean, you're, you know, twice a high.

of me. I think you found some little like little sort of hole through the bushes or something, some kind of little rabbit trail or something you shot through because I couldn't see the elk at all. So I don't think we're going to release that film because I'm just like you. I'm not perfect. Yeah. So yeah, I don't think that'll be once for wolves too. Yeah. Well, so what's your goal? I mean, what do you here we are. We work together on these projects, the, the, the lift run shoot and the podcast. And also you're doing American Made for the outdoor channel. Yeah, yeah, going around to American-owned companies.

Yeah. And highlighting their stories, right? So what's, I mean, what's on the future for you? Well, I just want to say, you know, it's an honor to be in this position, right? Because I grew up. I was lucky enough. I had a step up in the beginning, you know, obviously with who my dad was. And so I was able to, you know, make a bit of a,

I think, you know, a mark early on. And, but what you mentioned earlier about the comments about people's feedback and they say, hey, like, I watched work that you did or I saw something you did or I read about it or, you know, whatever it is, I heard a story you told and that affected me, right? I'm just, you know, all I do is I just, you know, put stories in whatever medium I'm working in, right? I try to be as creative as possible. But I believe, I truly believe that we tell ourselves stories.

in order to live. Kind of like what you mentioned. I think Joan Didion said that, but that's it. I want to tell great stories, and I want to impact other people's lives. You know, obviously, you know, my family and my kids aside, you know, that's what I want to do. I want people to look at something I've done and be like, holy shit, you know, I understand. There's something there that he gets and that I get and I have that same feeling. and I want to positively impact as many people as possible.

That's it. Through whatever creative medium. What's your favorite or how do you think that's most easily done? Is it through adventures in the wild? Or do you just want to make films wherever? The only way I know how to do that currently is through adventures. And I think that's because, you know again that's just that's the lot in life I've had that's the that's the advantage I've

had that's the that's my experience that's what I know to do I couldn't you know if I walked onto a film set tomorrow I wouldn't know you know I couldn't even tell you what type of lights are using or what my role is supposed to be all I know is that if we have a group of men or women going into the wilderness going on an adventure I believe currently I know how to tell that story Now I hope someone next week is going to come out with something and I'm going to watch what they put together, creative mind. I'm going to go, oh, wow, okay, that's it, right? Like you told that better than I ever could and I'm going to learn from that.

Kind of look you do what you do with the outliers, right? So, no, I think you can tell stories in any type of medium you want. You can tell stories on Instagram. You can tell stories around the campfire. You can tell big, giant stories and movie theaters. you can tell whatever the phone. I don't know. There's all kinds of different mediums.

And the only one I know is the outdoors. Yeah. And do you think that, well, you know it so well, but do you think that it's the dichotomy between life there and life here is such a juxtapost that that story is more intriguing to you? Yeah.

It's like the connection between the wild and the civilized world. And so that's how you like those type of stories? Yeah. Well, I mean, I believe that. Mm-hmm. I really, I truly believe that there's a disconnection that we are not even close to addressing or figuring out. Mm-hmm.

I think, I think that there are millions of people that are not living their best life because they don't understand what that really means. They understand what they, you know, they understand necessities. Like we said, I get that, you know, You got to, you got to fricking do, you got to provide for your family however you can. But I'm talking about, you know, what you do in the weekends. I'm talking about, you know, why you haven't called your buddy up from high school and done anything cool like you used to do in the old days.

Remember we used to build forts and used to go adventure in the forest and that was all fun? What happened to that? Yeah. Like, why are we sitting, you know, I don't know, eating popcorn watching. I'm not going to, I don't know, I don't want to say what people, why we're doing. But, you know, there's just, I just think there's more out there. there for everybody from the most successful people on the planet to just the average, everyday men and women, you know, living, living their lives, blue-collar stuff.

Like, we can all have better lives, myself included. And I just, you know, I don't know, I just want to be part of that. Who's impacted you as a filmmaker? Yeah, great question. So when I started off, and this is, I was totally naive, right? So dad said, hey, I was going to university as a business major. And he said, hey, if you don't want to go into business, you know, why don't you come, film and try and make a series, right?

Because I've had successful hunting adventures. Why I make one called professionals, right? And I said, dad, you know, I went to school for four years for business. I don't know anything about making a series. And but I eventually said yes. And I sat there on YouTube for like six months, learned how to edit. and I lied. The outdoor channel said,

hey, like, you know, where's a series? You've got it all, like, in the proper formats, you know, what you're doing. You've got the sound design and I've got some big studios. And I said, yeah, sure.

And I sent, you know, I was in my, literally in my underwear and my bedroom on a boxment of cardboard because I couldn't afford a desk, my laptop, and I sent them, you know, the series,

the episodes I was making. And I, you know, so I kind of faked it. But I was not a hunter, right? I was never, or at least if I did some hunting, I wasn't hunting first. I didn't look, and I still don't.

I don't look at hunting movies or films. And if I do, I don't look at them in terms of like, oh, I wonder how big that elk was. Or all I look at is like, hey, did that, did I like that? Did I connect with that? Right. So in my early days, I literally like Guy Ritchie, you know, like the lockstock, two smoking barrels. That guy knows how to tell a story. And that's what I was watching at the time when I was making the professional.

So I did a bunch of, you know, like he does those super fast cuts and moves around. So I would try and do stuff like that. Okay. Now, they're a horrible version. I would like, nobody looked that up because it's not even close to what he was doing. But like that's, that's what inspired me at the time. So, um, so Hollywood basically certain producers in Hollywood. And you try to bring that type of creativity into the mountains then?

Right, right. And then that evolved over. So even once we're wolves, uh, there's a shot there where, because I don't, I don't want to take all the credit for, you know, I'm not like some creative genius. Like the shot where Kipps walking towards. a plane. You know, and it kind of rotates around him, right? Okay, there's a, there's a snowboarding video called, oh wait, where it goes like this, flips like this? Yes, okay, that stuff too, right? Yeah, so that even the flippy stuff, that I don't, can't give credit because I don't know the people

that came up with that, but wasn't me. Okay. Right. So you've emulated things that you've liked into the work you're doing. Right, and brought into hunting, yeah. I think, you know, Tanner wears a T-shirt that says, what does that say? Great artist steel. Great artist steal. Okay, sure. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, so you steal these ideas, put them in your medium. And so, yeah, I mean, that's just kind of how it works. Right.

It's like, is there really any original ideas or are there versions of? And then, of course, the hunt is original. But maybe this editing style is influenced by. It would be cool if anything we did in lives, including what you and Roy did. Like, I mean, as great as Roy was and, you know, guys like my dad. dad and you are we're all standing on the shoulders of of others right and that goes those back and goes back into our you know generational generation all the way back um same with any kind of story we're telling that goes all the way back to you know the beginning of time like that's from the campfires to

to now there's just you know different iterations and there's going to be like I said someone next week will come up with a way better way to tell stories than I ever could even dreamed and I think that's great it's just part of part of being part of something like a bigger process than ourselves, like our individual selves. Have you seen a hunting film that you didn't do that, that you appreciated? I mean, maybe you haven't even watched any. I don't. Yeah.

It's funny. I don't really watch hunting films. I will say the work that, and I don't want to leave anybody out here, but have you heard of Rock House Motion? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

They do good work. It did great work. Yeah. And I remember seeing their stuff and be like, oh, okay, wow. Yeah. And I've since become friends of Matt White. But like those guys, I'm like, okay, like respect. Donnie Vincent gets a lot of credit for his filmmaking.

And I'll, I'll admit, I haven't watched much of it. But I know he, he does stand out in that realm for the work that he's putting into the filmmaking part. Totally. Yeah. And I've heard that consistently. I've not seen some of his stuff. I've seen, I can just kind of tell, you know, the, just from watching, you know, a few

seconds or the, even the photos and everything. Like, I'm sure his work is excellent. Very insightful. Yeah. It seems like an insightful. Yeah. Person. I think, you know, I live in Kansas City right now and the Heartland Bow Hunter guys are around there.

You're familiar with those guys? Yeah. I think there's a perception that, and I hope there isn't, but, you know, I had this perception in the beginning that, oh, like, you know, to tell great stories, you have to go on some ridiculous, we need to go to Alaska, you know, have some crazy adventures and you've got to have, like, you know, all kinds of time and money to spend on, you know, whatever camera gear and you got, you know, edit and a lot. If you look at what those guys are doing,

they're out there with very basic DSLRs that, you know, most people have, and I think they do great work. Yeah, I think that's cool. Yeah, no, that is good. I think great work in an incredible setting makes it better. Makes it better. Yeah, well, of course.

Yeah, and there's a reason why, you know, obviously I prefer to go to Alaska than to try and film something in my backyard in suburbia, Kansas City, you know, so. But the point is that it's the most important thing is story. And I don't think that going back to some other questions, I don't think that a hunt, that a film like this would be nearly as powerful without the backstory of you and Roy,

of you and Kip, right? Because Kip and you are kind of, you know, friends now. And it used to be you and Rory now. It's you and Kip and Kip sees in you, what you I think originally saw in Roy, right? Those all themes in the movie. You take that away and it's just a hunt film. Yeah. You want to know, you want to know what's missing from that movie?

What? Do you think anything's missing? Yeah, I didn't show Kip's brother Kobe as much as I should have. No, but that, yeah, that's fine. I mean, Kobe's kind of like the, he's not like jumping in front of the camera all the time. Actually, you know what? Very quick, you know what happened with that? Because I talked to Kip. And so the truth is Kobe was with us in that, but I don't show much in the movie. He actually, we were sharing, the three of us were sharing a tent together, right? Yeah.

And Kobe, during the blizzard, he was an attempt by himself. Yeah. And so I just, I didn't really have much footage of him at all. Yeah. So I didn't, anyway, go ahead. What's missing? Well, I mean, yeah, props to Kobe. He's, yeah, great guy, tough, guy you want in the clutch for sure.

What's missing is, you can't watch it with Roy. Yeah. So any hunting story or memory is just not the same. Because if he could watch that film and we could talk about it, that's perfect. But, you know, it's a great film and it's awesome. But his room, Roy's room at his house, he's not in it. All those things are there. we have all his memories.

We have the big snow machine picture from Brown Bear Hunting. We have everything you could look around and have an incredible story on it. And Roy's not telling it. And so this movie, without Roy, it can't be the best ever because I can't share it with, that's what we did. We loved getting on the phone talking about, I mean, And when he killed that biggest brown bearer on Kodiak that won the Fred Bear Award, he called me on the sat phone to tell me. When he dug into the den and that bear came piling out,

when Roy locked eyes with it, when the bear was in the den and Roy was crawling in there, he called me from the mountain. So it's like, we would do these things. And if we weren't together, we were always the call. Like, dude, you won't believe this. So this movie without, without being able to share it with him, it's like, yeah, I mean, to me, that's what's missing. Well, yeah, I'm, I didn't think about that. But I will say, you told me this one time, you said that, you know, life sucks sometimes.

Mm-hmm. Mother Nature, life doesn't, doesn't owe anybody to be fair. There's no, I mean, that's something that we, you know, humans have come up with. That doesn't exist. I will say that I think that you would have made Roy Prout. I think, you know, the way that you went up there and did what you had to do, the way that you had an adventure and you brought others on an adventure like he brought you in the other days. Certainly something I will never forget. I'll always be grateful for that. And I don't, you know, I just don't, sometimes I think we don't have the answers. And I think it made, I hope anyway that, you know, the film we made, did justice to Roy's, like you say,

I know we can never match that, when you can ever get up there. But, you know, we can only do the best we can do. Yeah, I mean, you know, when you're saying that, the only reservation I have, if we're going to be honest, is you had a clip in there. And I'm not sure if this is, I think this is how you felt, but you had the camera turned around on you and you were shaking your head. And it made me feel, it made me feel bad that I was dragging people into that shit. Yeah, I'm going to be honest to you. I was pissed at you.

I was just pissed at the situation. I thought because I don't want to. I'm not fucking tough guy. Right. I don't look in the mirror and say, oh, there's a tough guy looking back at me. I don't, you know, I've done some dangerous stuff. That's mostly because that's just, you know, that's just kind of what I know. I don't know how to make a living doing other, you know, things.

So I wasn't excited to be in that scenario. But again, you know, I remember one time we were in, so this is a crazy adventure with dad, and we were up way, you know, way north, you know, and we were poor about hunting. So we were on the back of, you know, dog slides basically getting bounced around the ice all day. And something happened.

And, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, people to live up there, right? They're tougher. They've got more toughness in a fingernail than I will ever have a mind. I mean, I'm, I'm sitting there in my whole, you know, outfit looking like a dummy with a giant, like, motorcycle helmet on because of my head, my head's freezing and I, you know, I can't feel my hands and I've got my fancy, you know, clothing. And they're wearing, you know, I'm wearing like the minus 100 degree rated gloves. And they're, they're out there working on like metal parts with their, their hands and they're all, their faces are all, one of the guys was all scarred up from my polar bear. attack and everybody else all their skins all falling off in their face and stuff because they're just so tough it's like minus 70 hours some crazy yeah um and something i can't remember what it was but there is a polar bear around and i felt like the the um the guide that we had was making like really bad like dangerous decisions like like going very fast around the poor brothers like they're they're kind of like the lines are like they're not used to seeing humans i mean they'll kill you no joke and um something happened i was i was mad and i told dad that

And I was like, I was mad. Because this is a situation that I shouldn't be and this is too dangerous, right? And he basically, like, at first he was kind of like, okay, you know, and then he thought about and he's like, listen, this is the way things are. There's nothing to do with you. This is, this is part of it. You need to be, this is it. You know, life, again, Mother Nature doesn't need to be fair to you.

Fairness is not. Yeah. This is a way, this is a way these people live. We are in their world. They're not in ours. We didn't invite them to come down to, you know, have coffee at Starbucks. down here we're in their environment and so you accept it. So even though in that situation, yeah, I was not super thrilled to be going into the

trees. You'll notice that I did my very best to keep as many people between me and where I thought the bear was going to go there as possible. Yeah. So I just, you know, and Kip also had a similar reaction. He wasn't that excited and I was, you know, Johnny's put in a bad situation because I'm telling I don't want guns. I don't want anybody shooting.

basically I don't want anybody there but he has to be there because that's his job you guys didn't want to be there but we're together you know we're a team so I just felt you know it's one thing to to fuck up on your own and you have

to go clean up the mess I mean I had to do it in San Carlos on this big tight bull right here and you know it was it was just me who got in there and I could I could fix it I fucked it up I made a bad shot but I can fix this and all I wanted to do is is fix that.

I want to get the grizzly killed. I didn't want to have anybody else there. I didn't want to make it, you know. And so that's like when I watched the film, I'm like, it just kind of puts me back there again where I'm almost like, God, I'm dragging these fuckers into this, my mess. And I didn't want to. Right, but that's the thing, right?

And you heard Kip afterwards, he said, I think, what do you say? So there's no one I'd rather spend time in the woods with, right? That's after this all went down. I don't think it's about, and life isn't about making the best decision. Or maybe, yeah, maybe we could have waited longer. Maybe, I don't know, you could have made a better shot. I'm sure there's decisions that, you know, you would want back. But that's not what adventures about.

We're not expecting to be perfect. But we're there for you anyway. And that's always something like I look at, you know, the war stuff in the stories. My grandpa would tell me and, you know, you basically say it's not about the war. You don't give a shit about what the, you know, global policies are. You care about the person next to you, right? And I think that is as unfortunate as it is, that it has to be, you know,

I think kind of in a generally dangerous situations where this comes through. But like Johnny said afterwards, it felt like we almost went through a little bit of a war together. And we had a bond that I don't think you can just get by going to the bar through buddies and doing what we would normally do in everyday life. It just doesn't, it's not the same.

No, no. I get that too. And afterwards, I always, I said that and I was trying to think that, you know, that was a big deal, that, that bond that we had, you know. In the moment, and, you know, people can, whatever, say it's an act. I don't, it doesn't really matter, but I would have rather went down there and if I could have went, you know, got an arrow on that bear, killed it, or. whatever and not had you guys even been subjected to all that um and yeah i mean it was just like i i obsessed too much probably you know i know hunting means different things to different people um it's the only thing that's ever made me stand out so it means it's everything and it's just like

you know i guess i'm thankful i'm sorry that i had to bring everybody into that fucking disaster zone in the alders there but i'm also very grateful that for the bomb that we have afterwards and um if it if the film can show that yeah hunting it's real it's you can't be perfect and yeah even the guy who does this every day can fail and if that feels more authentic and can impact people then i guess that's a win but yeah to me personally i still It doesn't feel like a win. I just, you know, and I understand that, I just, again, from a selfish storytelling standpoint, I think that's kind of the point, right?

How many people, part of what I feel like we're missing in our lives is the ability to look over your shoulder and see your buddy next to you and know, have 100% confidence that when that, whatever, Rano charges, grisly charges, you know, whatever it is, the the Germans are charging it doesn't matter when shit goes down that guy's going nowhere that's a that's an uncommon thing I mean you see it you know you see it sometimes and brothers and people like that but you don't I think it's far less common than it used to be where like a group of of people can can have a bond like that although I don't know if I'd include myself in that situation because like grizzly coming is coming I'm not I don't know that I'd be stepping in front

of it for you but um you know what I mean yeah I do. Well, I mean, I'm thankful you were there. I'm thankful that we, you know, the film has had the impact. And mostly I'm thankful because the impact, whatever, it's just like it's, you know, my story is, you know, I can tell a story and it's fine and it happened how it happened. But if it's, if there's any positive out of it, if people are aware of your talents because of it, I'm like super grateful for that. And I just, you know, I want to commend you for your your ability to capture and tell, capture things with a camera that other people wouldn't see or think to capture and then to turn it into a story. It's, it's so unique. It's like, you know, I don't want to be a cliche that this is, you know, we talked to outliers, but you are the one in hunting who has taken what we do to another level. And it's, it's, maybe you've been influenced by others,

but for what you've done in this industry, it's, you're one of one. And it's, I'm very grateful despite however it went that we were there and we were able to make a film out of it that can have an impact on people. And, you know, all the, you know, I think about everything that you went through growing up, being the son of Jim Shockey, not having that burning desire to be a hunter.

You know, your whole family dynamic with your sister, you know, she's ultra-talented, just amazing in her own way. And then your mom, you know, like the glue to the family. And I think about all your journey to get you to right here. And I know there's been ups and downs. I know everybody sees this great, you know, you, I remember the picture. from that door channel, Golden Moose Awards, and you look like the most perfect family ever invented.

And it's like, I know it's not always like that, but for whatever has happened on this journey to put you here and to put us in position to release that film, I'm very grateful for. And I'm humbled. I'm humbled that we're working together and that we can somehow maybe shine a different light on hunting because it's what I love

and telling stories is what you love and for whatever reason we've come together and have done something special and I'm very grateful for you. I don't know what to say to that other than I think I'm the one

that's humbled, Cam, and it was an honor to share the mountain with you and I hope we continue to do so. We will. And thank you for telling the story of Roy Roth. Yeah, you did.

did a great job. I appreciate you, Ramlin. Thank you. I appreciate you, Kim. Thank you. All right. Let's wrap this up. Keep hammering. Loophole optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glass. It's all I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years.

Thank you, Lou Pold, for supporting the podcast. All right, guys, listen up. For years, we've been talking about doing a lift-run shoot event, and we're finally making it happen. I've teamed up with my friends over a mountain ops to create an exclusive VIP experience where you get the opportunity to come out to Oregon and live and breathe through my mantra of lift-run shoot. We will run through a beast-mode workout, hit the hills of Piscca, and wrap it up shooting bows over at the Indicot Farms. This is a event for new hunters or someone who has been wanting to get into bow hunting for a very long time. We want to give you the tools to take your bow into the field and be successful.

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