Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 024 - Scoobie Da Jeweler

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

Starting from the economic collapse of 2008, Scoobie's determination to help his parents' jewelry store survive led him to explore eBay and, eventually, create a hugely successful jewelry business from scratch. His inspiring story of perseverance, minimalism, and honesty is a testament to the power pushing forward even in the face of adversity.   Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Scoobie Da Jeweler: https://www.instagram.com/scoobiedajeweler/ https://www.facebook.com/JewelryExpressAtl/?utm_source=sprouterprofile https://scoobiedajeweler.com Thank you to our sponsors: Santa Cruz Medicinals: scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Black Buffalo: https://blackbuffalo.com/discount/CAM use code CAM for 15% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping First Light: https://www.firstlight.farm/ Use Code Cam15 for 15% off your first order Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com   Timestamps: 0:02:40 - Manifesting your own Destiny 0:03:21 - eBay and the Economic Collapse of 2008 0:07:17 - 120 Hour Weeks and Expectations vs Reality 0:11:05 - Creating a Successful Online Business From Scratch 0:13:55 - The Origin of Diamonds 0:15:00 - School’s First, Family First, Ice Last 0:17:00 - The Power of Minimalism and Honesty 0:18:15 - Pushback From Competition 0:31:30 - If it Makes you Happy, go F&*king do it. 0:39:17 - Most Special Art Piece 0:44:40 - The Winning Mindset of Kobe Bryant 0:44:11 - When the Vision Gets Blurry, Stop Complaining and Get to Work  0:46:20 - From Partying to Grinding 0:50:00 - Money isn’t Everything 0:59:00 - The Importance of Maximizing Every Day 1:03:00 - The Dream Client and the Power of Ideals  

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Use code CAM for 15% off your first order. Hoyt Archery has been my bow hunting sponsor since 2005. And personally, I really don't care what bow you shoot, what brand it is. I just hope that you have the same level of confidence in your equipment as I have in mine. Because I know if I get one opportunity with my Hoyt, it's going to pay off. Well, here we are. It's a Keep Hammering Collective here with Scooby DeJuler, right? Yeah.

Is it DA? It's DA because someone took the T.H.E. for me. Scooby? Yeah, so you got Scooby de Jueler. So I didn't even know. So what is your real name? Or do you ever say it? My real name is Onick.

Yeah. But that's like non-existent now since like I've been working so hard and like getting recognized in a good honest way. So even my friends stopped calling me by my real name. So it's Scooby now. Scooby. Yeah, I like it. I mean, it's a, you can't, I mean, you remember Scooby.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, this is a great, just what an amazing story. So you made me this piece. You brought it all the way out here to Oregon. Yes, sir. This incredible necklace with my logo. I mean, what, how did this happen?

So I was actually watching, I can't remember whose podcast or what ad I saw specifically, but your book came up. And I was like, wait, I know Cameron Haynes, Bo Hunter, Joe Rogans, one of Joe Rogan's friends. I was like, this has to be a book I got to read. And plus, you and David Goggins are, if you guys run, you guys are either going to kill each other or something's going to happen when running. So I was like, all right, this is a chance that I get to read this book after Goggins book is finished. And I read it. And I was, and to be honest, for my life, I was, I was kind of like, you know, I wasn't reaching my full potential. And then I picked up your book a month ago and I put all the strategies in and I got inspired.

I was like, man, Cameron Haynes, I got to do something. Yeah. I have to. So sketched out the design and sent it over to my team and I sent it over to you and you said yes. And I was like, all right, this is a dream come true. Let's do it. Man, I mean, I'm blown away because it looks so incredible. Your work is amazing.

But the chain is so good. And you just like, you know, just wanted to gift it to me. Yes, sir. I can't, I'm trying to think of what gifts I've got that are as cool as this. And I can't really, I mean, it's, I'm blown away. Thank you. Yes, sir. I mean, any gifts that you get, it should be like, we should consider it as a blessing.

Like, I get the, I get a, I get the opportunity to meet you. I get the opportunity to meet your family. Be a part of your podcast. I told, I told my mom, like years ago when I saw your Instagram post and when I was just doing a nine to five, was like, mom, I'm going to get on someone's podcast, but I didn't know who. But I remember you liking a photo. And I was like, okay, I guess this is my goal. Yeah.

So in about, I think it took me four years. Really? Four years. That was four years ago. Yeah. I told my mom. How can, I mean, isn't that incredible? So you put something out of the universe.

You say you're going to do it. Yeah. And then it's happening. Yeah. I mean, life is, I mean, so how did, that was when you were 24. You said you're 28 now. Yes, sir. How did this, your business is.

Is it just how did you get started in this? All right. So this, I'm going to take you guys back to 2008, 2007. So this is where I'm eighth grade, a little bit of freshman in high school. The economic collapse happened. And so mom and dad are, they have their jewelry stores since 1990s and then the new one since 2003. So when the economic collapse happened, the problem that occurred was that. you know, everybody lost her money, no business, nothing, gas specifically in Atlanta, in Georgia

was $4 to $5 a gallon just for regular. Imagine what premium was. I can't remember, but if I was to do the math, probably like $4.99. And I told my dad, let's try eBay. You know, let me just create an eBay store. You know, it's like 10% in fees. We can mark up a product higher just to cover our fees. but instead we can ship products out to clients that don't want to drive to the mall.

Right. And so I started off with that. And then, you know, that eBay was the brink of like my addiction to jewelry, right? What comes in? What products are this? What's the meaning? What does that chain's name mean? Or how do you say it in Italian?

It's just a whole bunch of lists. And so, yeah, eBay was the story. start and it paid my way through college completely and so that you were freshman or eighth grade when you had this idea for for eBay yeah and what did your parents think my dad my dad was like I don't know if this will work my mom was like just push she she's like after my mom it's my wife but my mom's my rock like she will tell me that you go pursue this like go get it not I'm saying my dad wasn't but like she was like go do it let's see where this goes was nobody buying jewelry at that time probably because of the

Nobody was going into the malls. Okay. Right. So gas was expensive. So why would you drive to the mall? So everybody was suffering. So I figured out a slogan in a way where why I paid $4 for a gallon of gas when I could ship it for free and it worked. Yeah. And then how did the business, how did that, I mean, how long did it take for the business to kick up and be going great? I think it took about six and a half months for every to upload all those products learn the strategies of SEO marketing all keywords just for like Google searches and uh eBay algorithm picked it up and you know sales were higher and higher and well this in store for my pops wasn't working as much eBay was high so all the money just went to him I see so it was a good way for me and my dad to connect and me and my family to connect even though The business is hard, but, you know, it was a great way of keeping the family together and doing the things that we had to do to survive. And now, so what are we?

What is this like 15 years later? Yeah. How is the business now? So with regulations in eBay, you know, the eBay businesses like, you know, it's there, but it's not doing as well as what I did on Instagram. And that even started during COVID. So I went to college for being an IT person. Okay. And I just focused on getting a degree.

Like any immigrant parents want their kid or anybody, right? They want their kids to have a degree, go get a good job, go do something you love. I got a degree and I got a corporate job and I hated it. I hated it. Where are you from? So I was born in Gastonia, North Carolina, raised in Atlanta. And my father's from India and my mom's from Pakistan. Okay.

So they got married. I think it was a little bit. after the conflict between the two countries. So when things weren't as heightened, they got married and then they moved to America. And then in 95 I was born. Oh, gotcha. And how long did your dad have the jewelry store?

Did you start that? So dad started the jewelry store in 19, I'm right, 1991 in North Carolina. But when he got here, he was staying in Chicago, and I still have this picture. where it keeps me grounded a little bit like know where you come from right so it's it's him in a dungin donuts like uniform so he started off at dunkin donuts whoa so just grinding just grinding two jobs trying to make money he even showed me his uh train line when we were in chicago yeah he showed me like hey i would wake up at three o'clock take this train here do this job for four or five hours go to the

next one and then come back home at 10 11 o'clock and do it again man and that do you have have brothers and sisters? I have an older sister. Yeah. So she was she was born in Pakistan so I see now I see wow so what a journey yeah but look look at where you've taken it now yeah I mean does it seem it's real it's unreal yeah because I see your Instagram and I I don't know if any rappers or anything or entertainers are on there but I mean I definitely see the athletes yeah how did I mean what was that first big uh impact Yeah, in that realm. Man, to be honest, I started off in COVID.

So when I quit that job, it was like, shit, what am I going to do? You quit the IT job. I quit the IT job. It was 120-hour weeks. I was sitting in a square room. What were you doing? I was just coding away. Yeah.

And it was just, I knew how to code. Not anymore, but I knew how to code. I was fixing systems. And then, like, I guess the corporate system is just hammered down on people, get as much as you can get out and then they'll replace you even if you quit yeah so when I quit dad told me take two months off I was like okay we'll see how that goes three days later I called him I was like dad get me back to work put me into business let's go you're going to stir crazy probably so you're working 120 hour what 120 hour weeks you were working that much yeah I was up

I would start at 8 am I wouldn't finish till like 6 am the next morning and then I would get two hours of break so I'd sleep do it again Yeah. And do it again and do it again. Wow. And it just, and I was handling three to four projects because I knew how to how the new system worked. Yeah.

And some of the people didn't. So I had to train and do the new system solve. Were you making good money doing it? No. No. I mean, we had a pay increase in 2020 of January. And then they cut us off about a good percentage. So I was backed down.

But actually, it was below my starting salary. Wow. Yeah. And they withheld a little bit of payments. And they were just saying the economy is too rough. We can't afford it. Yeah. And you had no choice.

I mean, so either you do it or you quit. Yeah. Wow. And was that in Atlanta? Yeah. I was living at my mom and dad's place at that time. No apartment.

I was like, there's no point of spending Atlanta rent money. Right. It's like $1,900 bucks for like a one bedroom apartment. Makes no sense. Right. So I saved all the money that I could. So when I quit, I had a good low, well, high five figure amount saved because I'd never spent a dime.

So I just found a way to invest my money into real estate and avoid my dad paying for my credit card bills at that point. So I got lucky with that one. Yeah. And then when I got into the business, I had to figure out a way to instead of doing the whole stuff, side like my dad was doing, I had to figure out the Instagram side. So I watched all of Gary Vaynerchuk's videos from one to 100. And at 100, I think one of the lines was stop watching my videos if you understand what I'm doing. So I stopped. Yeah. And I practiced everything he did. And what was the key? Consistency. Okay. Like keep posting six times a day on stories, three times or four times a day

on your regular feed post hashtags which now have developed into like other other keywords now but I kept doing it every single day nonstop I mean my wife girlfriend at the time was like can you please get off of Instagram like you're I'm working I mean that does not work well for a while yeah man it's uh now I sit down with you and think about it yeah yeah yeah yeah it's uh now I sit down with you and think about it yeah that was rough man and then so what happened so three days off from your other job after you quit and then your dad said okay let's do this how long until you started seeing something so you're doing it took me about seven seven months seven months and then and then what happened um seven months and I found like a couple suppliers online that reached out to me and they were showing me like the way

that custom businesses work so I'd get on the phone with them at like two three o'clock in the morning and Keep in mind, these are guys overseas. Yeah. And the guys in the U.S., sometimes they won't share a lot of things, but if you find that right person, they will. But the guys overseas, they want the business. So they taught me everything that I know. And about specifically custom jewelry.

And so I found suppliers. And then, you know, I messaged all the athletes. I was like, hey, let me know if you want a custom piece. So my first one was just on Instagram, just on Instagram. Just hitting up DMs. Yeah. Yeah. And then your first one was who?

My first one was a UGA player. I don't know if I should name him or not, but... Yeah. What type of player? He was a defensive player. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a football player.

I gave him the piece for free. Oh, really? And all I asked for him was, I'm going to come drop this off in two and a half weeks. I'm going to give you a chain in a box. All I ask for me is if you could spread the word. Yeah. I'm trying to educate all my clients in a way where they aren't spending so much money.

And that was the start from that one athlete. It trickled down into like hundreds. Really? And it's a blessing. Oh, man. So it worked. Yeah. Your vision worked.

Yeah. And then as far as like these suppliers, so is there, I mean, is there a huge markup on products coming? Where does everybody get like the golden diamonds? Okay. So majority, so everybody knows that diamonds, majority of the time comes from Africa. sometimes they get shipped off into Belgium sometimes they get shipped off into Russia India is the processor and

polisher all right so you have the rough diamond that comes out of the earth they India India is the one that polishes it at a maximum amount like they have factories running all day cutting up rough diamond polishing them sorting them per clarity and that's how like these wholesalers in the world

basically if they if they're getting it they're getting it from India or China at this point because they're the two biggest suppliers of, you know, diamonds and finish made products. And so is that clarity? Is that what makes it more expensive or less expensive? Yeah. So it starts off with I-1, I-2, SI1, SI2, VS-2, V-VS-1. And is that like, so I-1 is the top and then it goes? No, no, it's I-1's the bottom. Oh, I got you.

And then you go all the way up to like flawless, which is FL. FL. Yeah. And those are probably very spendy. Chop off my arm. Like is that expensive? So you, I know you told me one part is that when these guys reach out to you or whatever the, the correspondence works, you try to give them options because as you mentioned, even just this morning when he came in, you don't want people going broke on their hard-earned money, right? So how do you do that? So let me take it for an example as you're a bow hunter, right? You take each hunt with absolute highest respect that you can. So these guys, the NIL space is very, very new. It's been, I think, about a year,

year and a half new. And I want to make sure, like, these kids that are coming in to college and playing for these respective schools are getting paid, but there is no financial literacy for these guys. And so whenever they see, like, another NFL player, with all these diamonds and stuff. I'm like, and they want to spend this money. And when I give them the reality check of what their piece is going to cost, they're like, oh, I can't afford that. So when I try to, what I try to do is get their idea,

put it into reality on a computer design with my team, and I explain to them like, hey, you have different metals and stone options and you don't have to go broke. You deserve the ice. Don't get me wrong. But schools first, families first, then me last. Right. So if you're going to do it.

all these things, just know you have school to take care of, mom and dad take care of, or siblings. So I try to do the best I can to make every single piece affordable, even if I have to cut my profits or even have to cut down any of my personal, like, luxuries. Like, I'll do it. I don't mind. So what I decided to do was I became a minimalist and I travel light. I travel with that backpack right here that I just brought in. Yeah.

that's it. So why do you do that? I mean, that's not like a normal businessman mindset, usually. Usually it's you take all you can get. Yeah, but greed is the root of all evil. You, money comes and goes. Honesty in the business or honesty in whatever you do in life. Faith and faith and like other things that you want to pursue from your passion, that is key. Like, you have to be honest and not be greedy because God, you a blessing right like he gave you a talent or or like the drive for you as like bow hunter right you will be relentless at what you do you run relentlessly like I've seen in your videos if I can be honest and if I can do whatever I got to do to make this happen for that client I will do it

because I don't care for the money I care for them not going broke and we've seen NFL players go broke right and now I'm seeing a lot of college players as well over spending going out it's it's it's it's gotten to the point where honesty is it's just out of the earth now and i'm trying to bring it back right yeah i'm a lot of respect for that that's and it's hard yeah you i got a lot of pushback but it's hard pushback how it's like why are you cutting your profit margins right i was like if this client is like dire wants this piece right i will do anything it takes right some other people will stay firm foot down whatever it takes but I have to put myself in their shoes right where they came from

or how hard they worked I got to respect each dollar with as if it's my own right right we're not gonna like spend a dollar recklessly here and there partying doing whatever no that person has worked really hard for their money they're handing it to me to have a product that they will cherish I hope for a lifetime right so I have to respect each even if they don't have the exact dollar amount i will figure out a way to hit their budget whatever it takes when you say you got pushback who's that from the market yeah yeah it's really it's gotten to the point where how do i say this right it's gotten to the point where like competition has increased now where i've been a sole target on instagram for sure a target yeah from

Like later they're just trying to like bad mouth and this that the other like the bad comments right it's just terrible yeah so they want to try to diminish what you're offering say you're doing something wrong or not doing it right just so they to protect their own interests essentially yep so they they figure mudsling and will do that yeah and uh i don't even own a store front i use my dad's back office okay so i have a is he still there in the mall yeah Well, it's called America's Mart. It's in downtown Atlanta, so it's all the wholesalers that for jewelry specifically are sitting in there. Oh.

So he still has this place in the mart since 2003. And I just sit in his back office with that Costco table that it gave me, and that's it. And you just hustle online. Yep. I upgraded from a stool that I used to sit on to a chair. Okay. So I had to learn that. You're living good then.

I mean, the chair is pretty comfy. That have arm rails and everything? No, I don't have that. Oh, what, I mean, what an amazing story, though. I mean, so the business is it, how busy are you now? I mean, are you, are you killing it? It's ebbs and flows. Okay.

Everything's ebbs and flows. To be honest, from December, actually November 22, all the way before I left for Europe, before I talk to you, before April, I was I was pumping out like a hundred orders, like a month. And as soon as I got like, as soon as I, before I left for Europe, I had like 20 boxes that I had to ship out because I couldn't fly to these places. But I had to leave for Europe. I was, I'm not going to skip that one. Yeah.

So. What was that vacation or? So it's honeymoon part two. Oh, I see. So part one already happened. Yeah. I was working. So that was not good.

You just got married recently? I got married in July. Okay. So it's been over, I think, 10 months. Yeah, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. But it was supposed to be my brother-in-law and my sister-in-law.

My wife and me, we were all supposed to go to this trip in Europe. But with blessing, my brother-in-law and his wife are having a kid so they couldn't go. So time restrictions. So we changed it to honeymoon part two. except the conditions were my phone has to be off more times this trip than the last one. Oh, that's rough. It was rough. Yeah.

It was itching to work. But, I mean, I enjoyed Europe this time. Yeah. Yeah. What'd you guys do? We started off in the French Riviera and Nice. And then I've never been to Europe or specifically France or anywhere else that we went. And so I took it in as much as I could.

Yeah. I was like, I'm never going to get this chance again. So I might as well just take it in, soak it in, just appreciate what hard work is. What's the jewelry market like over there? Were you noticing people wearing chains and stuff? Honestly, I saw more handbags, like expensive handbags in Europe than jewelry. I saw watches more. Yeah.

People are wearing more Rolexes than I've ever seen here in America. I wonder why. Why do you think that is? I have no idea. Yeah. I really don't know. Has, so I would guess that the NIL deal is huge for your business. Yeah.

Because those kids finally have money. I mean, they deserve to make money off their likeness. Of course. You know, they're sacrificing a lot. The universities are just making bank. Yeah. You know, for, but the kids are the entertainers and the athletes. Yeah.

So I'm glad to see them get money. But, you know, I could imagine when I was that age, I wasn't making good decisions with money either. And I didn't have, most of the time, when I would go want to go buy a car, go to spend money, there's nobody there who I'm paying money to that's going to just be logical about, hey, let's think about this like you are. I mean, it's pretty impressive that you have that attitude. Oh, man, I'm telling you, when I was younger, I was a reckless spender.

Because, like, my dad did whatever he could as an immigrant parent. He didn't come for money. So he would, you know, give his fruits of his... labor to me and I would be very very reckless with them like you know seven cars and one point and it's just like switching out constantly because like cars were cheap back then right 2010 1112 so I would keep switching but I would wreck one or destroy one with modifications but over time I think there was a there was like a click for me in college and then another click um during corporate America and then my third brain click that I had recently, it just put everything into perspective. And it was just,

you know, that this is what drives me to do what I'm doing now with jewelry in an honest manner. Right. Well, I mean, that's impressive because you're still young. I mean, you're still only 28 years old. Yeah. So to go through those iterations and grow up and essentially mature is pretty impressive. So the kids with the why do you think it's what do you think like the the pieces and the diamonds why is that such a popular thing? Is it because the NFL guys do it? And why do they do it? I think I mean there's no correct answer to be honest in my opinion. I think it's obviously started off with the rap game. The rappers, the entertainers, the musicians. I think they started a a cultural trend which is fine i i enjoy that i love seeing other people's design and artwork it's

amazing yeah um and then it got into the nfl space and the nb a space and then it got into the college space right and i think um with some of our college athletes like don't follow the joneses please don't do it like i urge everyone do not follow anyone who wants diamonds because one day won't be affordable, in my opinion. It's going to be so unaffordable that when you start looking at the other alternatives, you won't, you'll think twice before like, oh, okay, so this is what everybody was marketing back then, but we never believed it. Right. Because once things become unaffordable, the switch happens. Right. Yeah. This can't do it. And, and like, what's the, there's diamond options, right? Is there diamonds made in a lab or what is, how does that work? So you have natural diamonds,

come from the earth, then you have lab diamonds, then you have moistenites, then you have cubic sicanians, and then you have all the other ones that like the gemstones, the colored ones, I can't even pronounce some of the names, but, but the majority three that everybody deals with now in the market is natural diamonds, lab diamonds, and moistenites. Now, I'm not too technically savvy when it comes to like the definition between a lab diamond and a moistenite but all I know that people are looking at is number one is since their lab made there's no carbon footprint on these so it's clean. The second thing is is that all the all of my clients that are looking for and is they pass the pen tester that it marks as a diamond. But in reality like if you have the money

but you want to be smart with it, choose an alternative. Really? Yeah. What's the pin tester? It's like a $20 Amazon tester. You can get, so it's a thermal conductivity tester where you just point it at the diamond and with the heat that it reflects off the diamond or the stone itself, it'll just shoot it up to a diamond. So sometimes you can't even tell if it's a real diamond or a lab diamond sometimes.

Really? They're that good. They're that good. but now thankfully that GIA, the gemologist institution of America, came out with like a good machine. Sherlock Holmes came out with a good machine. So you can detect these now. So like they are, they are companies that are bringing honesty into work. But at the same time, they're showing materials that, you know, real diamonds is this.

And the comparison is this? Mm-hmm. That's it. And it's pretty close, you say? You can't tell. Really? You really can't tell. I think a lot of you guys will be interested in this next.

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because mostly what people want, they want that flash. They want the VVS. Yeah. That's what they want. Yeah, just to be sparkling and lighting up the room basically, right? No. Yeah, I mean, I'll admit those guys, they do look kind of like badass. It looks cool.

I mean, you see that, you know, whatever. I mean, even I saw you do grills too. Oh, yeah. It makes, it's like I'm not like some elite athlete. obviously, you know, I'm an old white guy. But man, it makes like, dang, that would be kind of sick to walk around and just be some badass stud like that. So one of the things I did for my wedding, I told my dad, and I was like,

hey, I know you have to make it to this event for the wedding, but I need you to go to the office and pick up my grills. So I specifically made diamond grills for me, for my wedding. Did you? Yeah. And it was one of those, like I said, one of those wasteful moments of my money. But it was the best showcase that I could have ever done Because in the wedding you had you wore it for the pictures

I wore for one of the pictures and then my wife got pissed So I was like fuck this take this off Yeah yeah you got your picture with it Yeah I mean $5,000 down to drain though But well You got memories yeah Yeah I guess so all your your wasteful spinning isn't all the way out of your system

Well that was just that one condition But I think my, well, my past, my recent addiction has been like watches. But then I realized really quickly, each watch tells the same time. What's the point of buying all of these? Yeah. So now I've like collectively started to sell some of them. And then keep the most memorable ones. What's your favorite watch?

Man, there's so many. But I have two. It's the Cartier-Santo. that my wife's family gave me for the wedding and then I have a Rolex 2023 Submariner with date that's my first Rolex ever okay and I loved it are the those I don't even know how expensive are those the Rolex MSRP is 10,400 Markets probably selling around 14,000 whoa yeah and then the Cartier is 7,000 Joe is a big watch guy oh I know Rogan yeah he yeah yeah he yeah he yeah he

He loves it. Didn't he toss like an Omega to some, to one of his podcast. I think he did. A guest? Yeah, who did he give that to? I do remember that. Like, he was just like, oh, this is Omega, here you go. I'm like, wait, what?

What are you doing? I mean, you would, you would really like how he operates. He's very generous. Yeah. Very generous. It's, uh, he's actually the most generous person I've ever been around. And so he, that doesn't surprise me that he did that because to him, it's like, he just likes to see people happy.

Yeah. it's really hard in this day and age with a lot of technology and a lot of like a lot of like how do I say this like bad energy I guess I can say instead of saying hey like bad energy would be a good term that it affects people's happiness to be honest yeah because I see it on Instagram I mean I read it on Instagram right and then I see it like when I go out with friends and I see it and I see it with like friends of friends and I see it within families too and it's just like, just why? Yeah.

It doesn't make sense. We're only on this earth for a short period of time in the grand scheme of things. It's like, why do you want to have hate or malcontinent your heart? Yeah. And then before the podcast, I remember I showed you that that username that I write on every single one of my pieces. It's Godlock, which is my cousin, who abruptly passed away because vein in his heart exploded. So he was working. And he was where I think he was on Twitch working on like some content and then like he logged off and then next to me know he never woke up like he it was like an instant like gone how old was he 34 my sister's age they're six months apart if I'm correct yeah and so no warning or anything nothing nothing nothing and that's why that that was one of my brain clicks that I had in life is that this life is way too short like

Money shouldn't matter. Only whatever passion or dream you have. And that makes you happy, you go fucking do it. Don't stop for anyone else because life, if you want to have life that like you want to have hatred, life that life is here. But if you want to be happy, you want to be life here. And that's where I'm trying. But in the middle is a struggle. You got to work through it.

Right. That defines who you are. Yeah. Now it's, do you think it's more natural to follow here? or and it takes more work to be happy but that seems doesn't that seem odd i discovered rogan in college and so like i think because of him and and then i followed into gagins and you and then jaco willing uh i think i found the best algorithm that i clicked on and um because i'm i can be honest with you life for me was here go to school go drink party it up have bad social habits like smoking drinking

for me at least and then destroy my body and then repeat all over again and then when I saw Rogan and then Jocka willing of holding yourself accountable I was like wait this does this kind of makes sense all right let me hold myself accountable for something so whenever I go out I'd be like wait I can't do this so I upgraded all right and then you know sometimes you fall back down the ladder but you have to pick yourself back up because life is about learning successful is here but for me I like the middle ground. I like the dirt, right? Like, okay, this is what I did.

Okay, this is what I did wrong. Okay, how can I be better? If I can do better than I was yesterday, like Kobe said in his book, man, I'm money. Yeah, no, that's, I mean, it is hard to be perfect all the time, but it's like I know when I wanted to make a change way back when and I'm like, I was doing a lot of negative habits, a lot of, you know, I was kind of a hater for people that who were more successful.

successful than me. But when you kind of know that you're doing something and it doesn't feel right and then you still fuck up, you go out and drink, it doesn't feel the same when you're drink because you know you're taking a step backwards, even when you're doing it. Like, I'm going to get a buzz. I'm going to get, we're having a good time. But it's just like in the back of your head, you're like, this isn't that great. No. I mean, it's taken me a while to like, because I can't for, at least for my body specifically that I've been self-aware of, I was to like I tried cold turkey and it sucked so now I've started to okay slow it down completely right go one by one don't go crazy like how you explain to me about running is um like I slowed it

down so I went from three to two two to one now I can't even like smell the thing what I can't smell beer oh beer like I can't handle it anymore cut way back and then finally now it's I can't smell it I can't I can't deal with the smell of beer. Really? Yeah. So you don't drink at all now. Zero. Yeah.

Zero. You're not missing anything. I'm not because that buzz will feel great. But then when you get up and then you walk and then the buzz wears off, you're still slow. Yeah. And I hate being slow. Yeah. I mean, they say once you, you go out and get drunk or do whatever, it takes your body a while to get back to where you were.

So all that gains you could have made during that time, you're just getting back to where you already were. Trust me. When I, when I first ran, I DM'd you, I was like, Cam, I'm dying. I can't do this anymore. Yeah. I felt it. Yeah. I felt it. So it's only been a short amount of time for me that I've quit. Right. But like just by reading your book and like understanding like what all of you guys, like the, the wise men that I call it, Jago, you, David, Joe, and many more Kipp specifically because he's, he's a, he's a wild man at heart. but like his discipline is so solid right but um uh what i've realized is that man it's not worth it no no no i can't do it anymore yeah there's really no redeeming quality to it um so who like if you go back um on this journey what's been the most special piece you've made so far oh man you really put me on the spot here camp yeah i was just curious i saw a lot of a lot of

I went through your page. I saw a lot of cool stuff. I think one of the things, one of the most memorable I've ever done was I did a Kobe Bryant Gigi Memorial for the second anniversary of their passing. And I was able to find a staple center picture online. And I was able to replicate it.

But it was like it took me about six months to find the perfect picture that showed love, compassion, memory, legacy. So the legacy was Kobe with his daughter. The compassion was like him kissing his daughter on the forehead. And then like it just showed the legacy that he took her to a basketball game. Right? Because she was interested in basketball from what I've read so far.

And right then and there it clicked. And you made that piece with that picture. So it was all enamel. And sometimes you. you can get the enamel part right with the designers and the like production workers that are doing it but i was full hands on with that one i was making sure every night or in the middle of the morning like hey how are you doing it so i would sit on the video call and i'd just be watching them just just sit there and do it because if they messed up and it would lose all meaning for me because

i'm kind of like a perfectionist but right i know not everything is perfect but for that piece i had to make sure like this is it yeah did it turn out perfect it was it was perfect So, and is it for you? So I was working with a manager, a PR manager at that time. And I texted her. I was like, hey, this project that I was been working on for about six, seven months, here it is. She goes, we have an opportunity to give it to a former Laker player. So I gave it to that former Lakers player, Lamar Odom got it.

And it was like one of the best things I've ever done because it was an article about him. And forget his past. what Lamar did, but he's such a genuine, honest person, like, great to talk to. And I gave it to him. And, I mean, it was, it was, I didn't care for the promo, but it was amazing. That piece went to a former Laker that played with the legend. Yeah, and they were, from what I remember, they were close. They're really close during the games.

Didn't, what happened? He had some medical issues. Yeah. It seems like Kobe was around for that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm pretty sure Kobe during that time helped him out. And I'm glad Lamar is well and he's doing great.

So, hey, man, good for you, but I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to give you that piece. For real. It was great. Yeah, that's, I mean, when Kobe died, man, that was terrible. I mean, of course his daughter, of course his daughter too. I mean, he can't. But Kobe was such a legend.

And it's like, I don't know. Now it was terrible. It was like, yeah, he was super famous. everybody loved him but once the people are gone then you go back and you go you watch these clips and you hear his mindset and you're just like god i knew he's special but i don't know if i didn't i didn't realize how special you know just his that winning mindset i think a lot of cobi motivation videos on youtube really popped off a year after he passed because that's when it hit reality that okay there is like we we we lost a legend and so a lot of the Kobe mindset like the

mumma mentality like I'm not good at it but like man the man was a beast yeah a beast relentless yeah yeah yeah yeah I know I've been inspired by him too yeah yeah I had a another athlete in here an Olympian uh Matthew Centrowitz and he you know he likes having that Kobe or the Jordan or that type of like just you know foot on the neck yeah just crush a competition oh yeah and that's what he tries to do too but it's like that that mindset is I don't know I wish I would appreciate it more when Kobe was here but now I guess you know he's gone and you just really gravitate towards you know he in my opinion I think when Kobe passed he left us a guidebook like hey I've said all these things use this to your advantage like he just gave it it's right there

Like the Kobe book, for example, all the all the interviews he's done. It's so educational. And I think I think everybody should just at least review it once. Like just understand what he's saying. Take a notepad, take notes. But I think if everyone did that, I mean, the world would kind of be in a perfect scenario. But not, not everything's in a perfect scenario. But just give it a try.

If you want to go from here just a little bit up, just give Kobe a try. Right. Because his have you read the Kobe book? No. I'm going to ship you mine when I get back home and you need to read it, man. Is it good? It's amazing. It's like a storytelling book, which he was really good at.

But the man never slept. Yeah. To be honest, he never slept. But I love, you know, and you hear that because I've seen, you know, Iverson would talk, I saw clips where Iverson would talk about how they would go out and be at the club. And then they'd come back. And he was just getting up going to the gym. coming back from the gym and just would never miss a workout and we'd just think well if I start

earlier where these guys are getting two workouts a day I can get three yeah and then compound that year after year after year who's ahead and you can't you'll never catch up yeah if the talent is equal or I mean relatively equal and for him his talent was probably even higher then he's outworking everybody almost like Jordan yeah and it's like man you'll never touch that yeah yeah Yeah, yeah. There was, I think, a documentary that came out about the 2000, I think 2008 or 12 Olympic games where everybody's going to the club, that scenario you were telling me about. And they were explaining that, hey, Kobe would never go to the club. Like, he would be outrunning or getting on a bike or something. Like, if, like, I tried to, in the beginning of ages, like, I was hooked on Kobe's book.

So, like, I followed that method. I would be up at 4 o'clock in the morning. Every day I sold all my luxuries during that time and I was driving the stick shift. Worst thing to do in Atlanta, don't recommend it. But that $7,500 beat up car and I would drive that thing to the store and I would be up at 4 o'clock

and I would run right after work. And I would get myself in shape because everything was still shut down. No friends, nothing. So I think COVID was a blessing kind of for my business, my life. Rest and peace to everybody else. what happened to them and it was unfortunate

but I think COVID changed a lot of people's lives. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it gave people I think people went one or two ways. Either they went backwards or they went forward. And if you were grinding out there and hungry and had a vision, you could go forward like what you have.

The vision was, the vision does get blurry. Like it's like the self-doubt like thinking that, you know, okay, I missed this opportunity and you're bringing yourself down. but like when the when the vision gets blurry you know i had i had my rock had my two rocks my mom and my wife i mean dad's always there dad's always going to be the pushing pushing factor but the emotional support man yeah my wife and my mom or like the two the two rocks of my life my dad's going to be like all right stop fucking complaining go work like you can always count on that from oh yeah oh yeah

yeah so in what's it like growing up in or having grown up in Atlanta I mean, I've never been in the South. I mean, I've been to the South. I've never lived there. Okay. So Atlanta is a very, very hot, well, Georgia specifically, a very, very hot state. Like, it's right under Florida, in my opinion, for the South.

Growing up in Atlanta, I grew up in the suburbs. My parents really, really worked hard to keep us in the suburbs, like in a good, safe area, best schools. And, you know, both mom and dad work. So they gave me the best education that they could possibly give me and obviously I fucked that up as much as I could But um yeah Living in Atlanta is fun Back then, but now it's kind of like

You know going going to school in downtown like Georgia State University It was kind of it's kind of risky man like crime is really high Back then and then it's still it crime is still is a little higher now um But then luckily I switched over to University of Georgia, graduated from there. So living in Georgia as a whole, it's been great. It's a lot of struggles, to be honest. A lot of crowds that I got involved with, bad, good, amazing. So I learned my way through it.

And now I've finally got a set group, which now my best friend, one of my best friends is now my brother-in-law. So it's kind of great that I have them around. Yeah, that is good. Goofy fucker. I swear. What does he do? So he's in the family business. Okay. He's with his father and they have multiple cast agents.

So bless them, whatever they're doing, because it's a lot of hard work. Yeah. Like my father-in-law works, a lot of grinding hours. Like hats off to that man. Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. And then so George, what was like going to school? You.

I went to Georgia State University. and then I transferred out. So Georgia State University was my redemption time. So I got a 4.0 and I was like, Dad, I'm switching to University of Georgia. I'm getting an apartment. You proved yourself. Oh, yeah. So quick.

And I went to University of Georgia and that's when the GPA started tanking. Why? Too much social stuff? I mean, UGA party. Well, back then, like, I think I don't know if it is now, but back then when everybody wanted to go to University of Georgia, it was like, hey, it's a party school, time to rage. Let's go.

So I literally took that as like a real thing. Yeah. And, oh, I partied hard in my first year and second year. And then I was like, oh, no, GPs down to 3.4. No, I got to get that back up to 3.5 or higher. Right. So I started grinding. I mean, obviously I would party, but I wouldn't go that hard.

And then I switch my sleep schedule, do as much as I can. I mean, the corporate life structure there, like getting, a job after college is just the norm right i mean i've seen a lot of people like come up with ideas and they don't even go to corporate america they just make millions of dollars they have their idea they work they grinded in the initial and now they're doing great but majority of the times it's like get out of college go get a job and that's it 95 do forever i mean go to go to go to work at nine come back home at five go to a bar go social come back home at what nine p.m. 10 go to sleep, repeat.

And I've lived that. And it's annoying. Yeah. As a young guy, like when I had my first job, I hated it. After, like, the first three months, you're just like, can we go do something else, please, instead of drink? Yeah. What's the best part of what you do now? I think the best part now is when I get on a plane and travel and see the smile.

Like, I saw the smile on your face. Like, that's it. That's what I look for. Okay. That's it. The designing process is fun, but like, seeing that smile, that's just, it's just the tip of the iceberg right there. Oh, I gotcha. Yeah. Have you hooked up a lot of Georgia athletes? Have they used your business? I have had a lot of UGA athletes, and then I try to do my best to educate them and do the best I can and give them all the information. But obviously, when it comes to certain periods where they really, really won diamonds, they'll go to someone else.

I provide it, which is fine. I have no problem with that. I just hope that they're getting the right deal for the right price at the right time in the market. Because gold market is, it's fluctuating. Like last week, it was 2075 an ounce. And today, I looked at it when I landed, it was 1980. Really? Yeah. Way down. Way down. So it just fluctuates. And I'm hoping that they got the best gold price per gram deal. And then they got the best diamonds as possible. And I hope that, you know, I wish them all the success wherever they got. it from man but I hope they got the best deal then and it hurts sometimes when clients come back to me and say like I got it from this person and I paid this and when I calculated it out based on their

design I'm like man you you kind of overspent there paid a lot and I'm like it hurts like yeah and going to another client going to another competitor or a friendly artist usually that's what I would say because I have some cool you know cool friends in the jewelry business even though where you have the same clientele. You know, I just want to make sure that, you know, sometimes it used to hurt when you would go to a competition. It would burn. It would burn me so bad.

But now I've realized that, like, you know, you have a blessing to be in this business and you're alive. Just take it at will and keep going. Yeah. I mean, I think that you'd have to feel good about the approach you're taking. You know, I mean, it feels like the right way to do it. Yeah, maybe you could make more money doing it another way. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of like, it seems like that'd be hard.

You'd have to, your conscience would have to take the backseat. You know what I mean? And I feel like you're in a good place. I'm in a good spot. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just, you know, this is a slow month for me, right? I can say that honestly.

And I'm okay with it. You know, it's, you know, everybody's training. Everybody's having summer vacations. Do you go enjoy? Jewelry is not an opportunistic thing. But fingers crossed, hope to God, When four weeks before season, football season starts, man, oh man, I won't have hair on my head. You'll be busy.

I'd be so busy. And everybody, everybody probably wants their stuff. Quick. Yeah. Like, but it's, I can't pull shit out of my ass. Like, it takes time. It takes so much time because, like, trying to get the right price point for some of these clients, it takes a lot of time.

Like, like, you can get it from the factory overseas. You'd be paying 30% less. But if you wanted, like, next week. you're paying that 30% rush fee because like labor in America is high and I've I've genuinely tried to move production to America it's the hardest because the prices that I would have to output would outweigh any profit or minimal profit that I would need to make to sustain the business right so I do the best I can and I hope all my clients understand that that I don't sleep

and I'm here for you and I'll do whatever it takes. Did I see you made one for Des Bryant? No, that's not Des Bryant. Oh, it's not Des Bryant. No, no, it was. Dez 4. Wasn't that him or his number? I don't remember if it was number four was Des Bryant or not.

Maybe I'll check later, but it was for a San Diego State player. Oh, okay. Yeah, so he wanted a big piece and he wanted within a budget. So I was like, all right, here. I lost like $200 bucks. from my original profit margin, but it was worth it. Yeah. And he's happy with it.

He's so happy with it. Yeah, stuff looks so good, dude. I mean, everybody, I like you, you have the pictures with everybody, and they're smiling, and the piece looks great. Have you ever noticed that I never smile in my pictures? I never, like, consciously notice that. Okay.

How come? How come? I don't know. I just don't do it. It's just, I mean, I told my wife, I don't want to, I don't want anyone to see me happy, right? and I don't want a motherfucker to see me happy doing my shit. But sorry, Mom, for cursing.

But, I mean, it's just one of those, like, but tough mentalities that I just have in my head. Like, I don't want to smile from all of my stuff because, like, I want to see their smile. It's their time. Right. Not my time. I see.

My time is when I'm at home or I'm on a plane or reading a book or something. Yeah, because I guess somebody, if they wanted to twist it, they could be like, oh, look at this fucker, or smile. And he just took all this money from them. You know what I mean? Like, if they wanted to, they could turn it in. to who knows what. Yeah.

It's like this world can be twisted into so many other things, man. Like some of my clients asked me like, you're on all these flights. You have a lot of flight miles. No. Like as soon as you sign up for one of those credit cards, like 100,000 miles that you get for like a promo, right?

That's like five flights for me. Right. Right. And so luckily, thanks to a friend and soon to be like family member of mine when Frontier launched their pass. He was like, go by it now. So I bought it and now my flights are 30 bucks.

But really? Yeah. 30 bucks. It's amazing. Cheap. Yeah. That is per. I didn't even realize they had that.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, you would have to strategize of like how you're going. But, um, but that's the like, like if a client's giving me that money, like it went into that frontier pass. It's for other, for that specific clients and all the other clients. Yeah. Right.

I don't have to take Delta anywhere. Throw me in the back of the plane. Like, get me to where the fuck. I'm going. Like, let's go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everybody's getting there at the same time, right? Yeah. Whether it's first class or in the back. Yep. Well, you know, you know what we're going to do today? We're going to run Piscka. What do you think of that? I have, I knew, I knew that one was coming. You said you're tired, right? I'm tired, but I'm ready for it. I ain't no bitch. I'm doing it. I'm excited. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's incredible that, I mean, how often do you travel then? If you

came out here, do you, or do you have another stop on this trip? So, uh, when I got back from Europe the next morning I was in Orlando. So I did that I delivered that piece to the client and I had another piece that I had to deliver in Orlando. So I drove like when I flew into Orlando with a rental car, I like drove to all these places. And then I try to fly at least four times a week. Really? Yeah. After this, I mean, I promised like, you know, I wanted to get home early. But then like my wife booked me a nice hotel here. So it was like, she was like, extend your ticket. Like enjoy Eugene. I know you love. it here like just go oh sweet so like i'm just so i'm here till like noon tomorrow oh nice so i'm like

okay i get to enjoy the city a little bit yeah yeah but four times a week man oh man you are i mean i try to take the 4 a m flights i tried to get home before dinner the 9 30 as much as i can um but you know but the biggest support is my wife cooks me food thank you for that because like usually it'd be like fast food because it's so quick I need to be in and out as fast as possible. So you you try to deliver each piece? Yes. No matter where it is. No matter wherever the fuck it is, I will be there.

Really? Yeah. International just give me some time to plan, but I got you. That's impressive. Yes, sir. I mean, so that sets you apart right there. I think I did, if I was to calculate everything, I think I did 150 to 200 flights last year, including connections.

So if I have a connection and I have a client there, I'd be like, hey, can you meet me at the airport so I can catch my next flight. I did notice a bunch of the pictures were at airports. Yeah, I was wondering about that. Yeah, yeah. That's just taking advantage of being in the city. I, so I would ask them, hey, just show me your location where you are from the airport. And if they say 30 minutes, I'm like, hey, I land at this time. Would you be able to make it out here? They'll be like, this is the least we can do for you. Like, so they'll come out here and then they'll just, you know, they'll come to the airport. I've had one client picked me up from the airport, took me out to breakfast. And then I guess.

gave him his wedding ring that he was going to do to propose and I just finished their project too so they got their dream wedding ring it was the hardest thing I've ever done and it was the fastest thing I've ever done in my life yeah I think was that like a big tall guy stone for sith yeah yeah I think he's so nice really such a nice guy yeah well and what I mean just think that you because of what you do you get to meet some pretty incredible people those athletes everybody's got the story everybody up, you know, overcame so much to get where they are. And you get to, you know, anytime I always think that if I can rub elbows with people like that, I'm going to get a little better.

Yeah. You know, people who have fought for their dreams. I mean, this talking to you is a dream, right? Like this is, like, I've never imagined this. And I have the opportunity to be here doing this. This is amazing. Like, but what I want, what people don't realize, like, anybody can say that I came up from like, oh your dad had it and that's why you had it easier maybe but my dad doesn't know

Instagram right right like well when you were in eighth grade my day you're telling your dad let's get on eBay yeah I mean most kids are so wrapped up in their own shit that they're not thinking about helping the family business yeah I mean but I did get in trouble but like but like but like going to the office was fun for me like you know going to the same building doing whatever meeting all these people shooting the shit with some people whenever you get time and like just learning from like the older guys like okay this is what this is what I did here okay wait that's a good idea let me move this here all right let me change this up take this idea molding into something go back to

that guy hey what do you think about this and he's like all right that's good all right produce keep going learn everything life is a learning process if you're if you're not learning every day then what the fuck are you doing simple is that yeah that's a great attitude I mean I just I do I cannot believe you made this chain this is so this is so badass I mean I love this thing yes sir yeah I mean and then this did you say that's your cousin yeah his his real name is rachel but uh yeah I dedicated my old company to I wanted to use his username instead of his real name so yeah was it pretty popular on Twitch uh when we when we went for the funeral of he had a lot following. He had a lot of

WWE connects because he loved wrestling. Oh. And so like, so for Twitch, I think he was really, he was getting there. I think he was getting there and he was following his dreams. God. I'm sorry. Sorry for that loss. Yeah, but that's how you, that's what click life is too short. Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

you know, you probably, you know, my story, but you know, my buddy here. Roy. You know, Roy, yeah. I just finished that chapter on the plane. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, it, you know, it, And much the same way you're trying to honor your, your cousin. I try to honor Roy, because I wouldn't be here without him. And he's the, you know, or people wouldn't know me if I didn't bow hunt. He got me started bow hunting.

Yeah. I totally get this, this honoring. And, you know, having our work mean something. Yeah. I think, I think you and I, well, you more so. and I'm getting there slowly is that each thing that you do every day is a definition of the people you're trying to remember and what you're trying to do when they're not when when when when they have passed and you're trying to bring their legacy along I my goal is to carry on his name and carry on my legacy and my family's legacy and show that like hey anything is possible like I close my eyes and I consciously dreamt about being on a podcast. and doing jewelry or doing bigger things with real estate. Like I consciously dream every day.

If you can follow that, I think nothing can stop. You're dangerous. Yeah. You're dangerous. Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, and just,

you know, having those dreams is one part, but then you're just, you're working. You're making them happen. Yeah. I mean, so, yeah,

the vision is, but you're going to put your head down and get to work and you're doing that. Oh, man. I think that, you know, that Gary Vee and the people you follow i think it just keeps reinforcing that mindset and look at you you're fucking killing it

dude doing my best i'm doing my best like killing it i mean your cousin would definitely be proud i mean and um man that that is amazing he was the he was the he was the i think like remember how we were talking about hate and he never hated anyone man never hated anyone and so when we see this war when we see this world and like we see hate man and i think of him and i'm like man he never hated anyone lost him too soon seriously yeah I'm sorry yeah so what what's the what big piece are you working on now you got one um I am actually yeah it's one two three it's for one guy three pieces and he's my most loyal client and he will call me just to shoot the shit like he's

type of guy. Three eight o'clock in the morning. Hey, what are you doing? I'm like, bro, I'm sleeping. Leave you alone.

Is it an athlete? Yeah, he's an athlete. I'm not going to say the name because everybody will figure it out. But, um, but, I mean,

his next three pieces are just going to be the most fly pieces I've ever done. Really? Yeah. Diamond? Uh, no. Gold. It's going to be silver.

Oh, silver. Okay. Sweet. You're pumped? I see him once a month. Yeah. So I'm pumped to see the reaction.

more so than to like get on a plane this time because like these plane travels they hurt yeah they hurt the back so bad oh yeah I understand I mean it's it traveling is definitely hard work um well that's cool well when you get this done and get it delivered to them you'll have to send me a picture oh dude I got you I want to see I want to see yeah who's your okay well we'll end it on this who's your dream client like who would you love to make something for you did Kobe already i mean you know yeah unfortunately he was past but if you could if you could design something for somebody who would it be there's so many i think um i think the dream client with with if i could explain and do the all explain to him all the information

that we can like change athletes minds for the better and for financial literacy i think lebron james LeBron James Yeah For sure Yeah he's got a huge platform Huge platform And it's not because of the platform He's a even though he never went to college

He did get financial literacy And he is super super smart Strategically on the court And business Right and he cares He actually gives the shit So if we can If I could ever get the chance to do a piece with him

And we can educate college athletes High school athletes Even those guys are getting money from NIL before they even graduate. We can educate these guys like, hey, make generational wealth, still do whatever you want, but understand your consequences if you're spending this much money. I think we would see less and less athletes going broke. For sure. I mean, to your point, I think his son has big NIL deals already.

He's still in high school. And it seemed like I thought I really. read where he used $7 million somehow with something. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, so these premier athletes, they do have access to money these days. So yeah, to your point, making good decisions with that, it's going to impact their kids and their kids' kids' kids. Yes.

Yeah. I think that's a good goal. You know, he read my book. Really? LeBron. That's awesome. Yeah. How stoked were you?

Yeah. I mean, I never thought that, you know, the most basically right. now he's the most famous I don't know about athlete but for sure NBA player yeah and like what would we have in common yeah why would he be reading and endure you know what I mean so that was kind of cool maybe he's learning from you man something that you have and he's trying to learn man I mean that's a blessing yeah that's great you know you want to be able to I think it's it's cool when we can reach outside you know everybody's got their own little circle and clicks and I hang out with this type of people and we all like this this certain type of things yeah but when you can

expand, that's how you grow. You know, and so yeah, he's, you know, had nothing to do with like my life. Yeah. But still, we had some common thing or a connection. So it's pretty cool. But yeah, I mean, you know, this world is, it's a special place filled with special people.

I'm like, anytime we can come in contact and grow from them and learn from them or just listen. Yeah. It's, uh, we benefit for sure. Um, man. This has been. It's an honor.

A great conversation. It's an honor. I thank you so much for coming all the way here to Eugene. Thank you for giving me the opportunity or even responding to my DM. Thank you so much. We're going to take this up Piscan. We're going to get a picture up there on top. Let's fucking do it.

With that chain. How about that? Let's fucking do it. Okay. I'm pumped. Thank you. We're going to have a great afternoon up on the hill. Oh, yeah.

And I appreciate the time on the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. All right. Keep hammering. Black Rifle Coffee Company is a company that's very, easy for me to promote because I drink coffee all day, every day. But more importantly, they are a huge supporter of the veteran community and are a veteran-known business, so they have my full

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