Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 030 - Cat Bradley

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Cat Bradley’s incredible ultramarathon ability somehow takes a back seat to her fun personality. But don’t be fooled, beyond the bright smile is a fierce competitor that won the most prestigious ultra marathon in the world, the Western States 100, at just 24-years-of-age. Listen to her story and goals for the future as an epic prequel to a must see Lift, Run, Shoot.    Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Cat Bradley: https://www.instagram.com/catberad/ https://www.catberad.com/   Thank you to our sponsors: Santa Cruz Medicinals: scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Black Buffalo: https://blackbuffalo.com/discount/CAM use code CAM for 15% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com   Timestamps: 0:00:00 Dual introduction 0:05:44 Winning Western States at 24 0:08:00 Feeling good for the first time in a long time 0:12:20 The sport needs young women 0:15:00 What came first, running or hunting? 0:17:30 Taking time to be meditative  0:21:40 Cool thing about Ultras 0:27:10 Where is your ceiling? 0:33:45 Finite amount of will power 0:40:00 Structure but freedom 0:45:53 Killing Wild Boar and the need for it

Today's podcast sponsor is Santa Cruz Medicinals, and it's a company I'm proud to talk about because I've been using their CBD products for years. We use a CBD beef tallow to cook our elk steaks, and their CBD cream is one of the best things I've used post-run to help ease the pain of my muscles. They make an array of potent CBD formulas. To be effective, CBD has to be dose properly in Santa Cruz Medicinals has those potent dosages. They make CBD deep sleep caps, pain creams, magnesium, beef tallow, which can be used as a moisturizer or for cooking, MCT oil, and more. Check them out at SCMedicinals.com and use the code Keep Hammering for 15% off and free shipping in the USA. Loophole optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last

few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glass as all I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years. Thank you loophole for supporting the podcast. This is the Keep Hammering Collective. This is my part of it. And I'm with the one and only Kat Bradley. I'm so pumped you're here. Yeah, what's up, Cam? I'm with the B-Rad podcast. My name's Kat Bradley. And today we're co-hosting. Yeah. A dual podcast. So who asks the questions? Well, I'd like your idea at first of like keeping it conversational. You know, I think the key is to, you know, I don't just tell stories. You've got to tell stories too. Okay. But your stories are

pretty epic. Yeah, true. I mean, you've only heard the ones about the used butt plugs. So that was, that was you, kind of like this, the flavor of this, that was unique. Yeah. That was a good one, No. I wish I could have seen your face when I told you. You were running behind me, though. Yeah, but by that time, I wasn't that surprised. Good. Well, we had, I mean, just to recap, we'll have a whole show on this,

Lyft Run Shoot, but we had just an epic day yesterday. I can't thank you enough for coming to Springfield, Oregon, and just, I guess, you know, it's time. I know your time is valuable, but you gave me a full day and I appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, honestly, that was like the best day ever. We ran this like giant peak. It was really my first summit since hip surgery back in March.

And then I also, you know, got to shoot a bow, you know, like legit for the first time. Oh, you're so good. So freaking good. I have shot bows before. So maybe I had a head start. But never one that was, you know, fit for me or that was like not so heavy that, you know, I, It was not as much of a struggle or, you know, other than that, I've just shot a kid's bow. Well, I mean, you took to it like you've done it your whole life because your form, when people watch the lift run shoot show and they see your form at 102 yards, they're going to think that you've done this your whole life because you look so good.

And it is really hard to shoot accurate at that distance, especially with the bow that, you know, that arrow's in the air a while. It's not like zipping down there at 300 feet a second. It's up in the air and it's coming in arcing. To be perfect at that distance and that setup is very difficult. You were, I don't know. I shouldn't be surprised, but it was awesome. Well, I think, you know, honestly, like bad habits is the bane of good technique always. And I didn't have the time to develop bad habits.

So, like, that is special. And you had the herd bull. The herd bull was teaching you. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Wayne. He's so cool. I know. And he, I felt bad because I said, well, we got to, we're going to go run Diamond Peak real quick.

And we should be there by, you know, do you have to leave right at closing time? Normally they close a six. Yeah. And he's like, oh, I'll wait. And I thought, okay, it should be about six. So then I think we're coming through Oak Ridge, which is about 45 minutes away at about eight something last night. Yeah, then have a 30 minute dairy queen stop. We had to get, yeah, we'd get fueled up because we basically did a big climb on very,

few calories or hydration. Yeah, I was like before we left, and I've been running ultras for like 10 years. And I was telling Carson, my husband before this, I was like, I felt like I was 20 again doing stupid adventures because I showed up in a cotton t-shirt, no water, no pack. And that's kind of my favorite adventures that I've done where I've been completely underprepared. I thought we were going, we like watched a little bit of one episode to see what it's about after you texted lift run, you question mark. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, we're just going to run around the neighborhood. So I was like, no water. Bye, honey. Yeah. And it was fun to just be totally underprepared and not really know what you're getting into. I have not had, you know, the privilege of doing that in a while because, like, the more experience you have, you know, the less opportunity for those wild adventures that you get, you know. So that was fun. Well, you took one water bottle.

we had tucked in the back of your shorts and just going for it. Yeah, going for it. And we were sending that downhill pretty hard too after I was a blast. I was the, I think, the highlight of yesterday for me. Me too. And what about lifting? How'd the lift go? Oh, like drinking coffee is an effort now.

But I'm excited to come back in six months and lift more than you. You did great. You did great. We had a lot of fun. Again, I don't want to discredit any of my other guests. But the next one's you got a high bar to beat. Yeah. And if it's beat, I'm just going to come back and sleep in your bedroom up above this garage.

Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I'll catch people up who might not know of you. You're, you know, very well known in the ultra-running community. You won Western States, which is the most famous 100-mile in existence that I know of. I mean, probably one of the longest standing. It's the oldest, actually.

the oldest, yeah. The oldest, yeah. So you won that in 2015? 17. 17. Yeah. At 25 years old, that's what it was. I knew there was a five in there somewhere, but you were 25?

Four. 24. God, I keep screwing all this shit up. I need another coffee. Okay. So one Western States at 24 years old. How amazing is that? Yeah, I mean, it was a blessing and a curse because I was like so young and had so, I wanted that Western

States went so bad. I was teaching and I was like working. I, you know, I was in the classroom at 645 in the morning, teaching, also getting my master's in special ed, a career that like I fell into, you know, had fun because it was, you know, got summers off. It was creative. And, but I wasn't, I like couldn't see myself like a teacher for 30 years making like, I was making like 25,000 years.

You know, it was fucked. Yeah. And then I went to, yeah. Yeah, and I knew how fit I was, and then I won Western, you know, that's, then I, like, from, I got hit by UPS truck before Western in 2015 and had all these injuries. I was told, like, you don't get them fixed. They're going to catch up to you, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then they did right after Western. I didn't know.

So you won Western after getting hit. Yeah, and I actually almost didn't even start Western States because I was, like, you know, with back injuries and hip injuries, so much of it. it is nerve pain. And when it flares up, not only is it like super painful. It's kind of a mind fuck because like it's searing pain, but you know logically that you're not doing any damage. And then, but like the other thing is like your legs just don't work all of a sudden with the nerve stuff.

So like until I started getting better and, you know, seeing doctors and to, you know, taking care of myself, I, um, the back of my legs. were atrophied, you know, like my quads and glutes. Yeah, well, because of the nerve pattern, you have to like retrain those nerve patterns after having like a high impact injury like that. And I was literally T-boned by the CPS truck on my bike. And so, you know, I almost didn't start Western that whole week. I was like, should I just go for it?

You know, I trained for so hard for so long. And then I decided to. And I just like woke up that day. And then it like was the nerve pain was gone. And I was like, thank God. You know. But otherwise like, you know, it's, it's slow going. And I'm it, even though it was in 2015, it's been a long time ago, winning Western

States and then kind of like had some good years 2018, 2019, but every year it got worse and worse. You know, and then after like the 2019, I've just been, you know, trying to put together pieces. And then it was interesting because you said yesterday it was the first time you felt that good in a while. So long. I mean, honestly, like that good, probably since before Western, like before things started to get really bad. Like before Western and before, like, things started to really go downhill.

I was known to be a very good downhill runner for a woman, you know. And yesterday it was the first time that I felt those things like engage again and felt the, like it was easy to jump over that stuff. Because it's not only the like being stable and the pain. It's also like your body doesn't, you don't have control when like your nerves. Your nervous system is what controls your legs and activates everything. When you don't have control that shit, you're fucked. And then that affects your confidence.

Oh my God. You have no idea. Because you lived confident yesterday. Yeah. I mean, because I was running behind you, you know, you can't hear out of the one ear so you like to run in front, which is fine. But you looked confident running, jumping, picking, you know, even though you kind of veered to the left too much. But picking our line is like you're just like in your element as it looked like.

Yeah, I was a black. And I think, you know, I got a little taste of that the other day running in Colorado just for a little bit. Carson was filming me with the camera behind me. I was like, I think this things are changing. And then yesterday, what it clicked. yesterday. I was like, I feel back. You're back. Yeah. And I have to know how it's going to go because I threw out a rib or something on the way to you or like the few hours or like the day before. And so we went to go see a chiropractor before and I was like, hope it hold up. Yeah. Oh, it did. It did and

everything was better. Yeah. It was freaking cool that we got to do that on this epic peak that's not trafficked often. And it's all on camera. Yeah. Oh, so fun. You guys did. So I can't wait to see the footage. I know.

I mean, it's a, you know, and I've explained this before, but I don't do it, I don't do adventures for content, but I do adventures. And if we get something cool, awesome. But yesterday was the best of both worlds because we drugged two guys up there with cameras, Tanner and Tyler. and they kicked ass to get to the top of that mountain with us. We were all together. And I'm really excited to see the footage.

I mean, so I'm like kind of feel like I sold out myself a little bit because that's going to be, the content's going to be epic. It's just going to be killer. Yeah, it's going to be killer. Yeah. I mean, it's cool.

It's like I always have been super uncomfortable in front of the camera. What? No way. Serious? You didn't notice? Well, you know, I think part of it is my mom was like a model and like really pushing me.

me into that stuff. And then I was like, you know, it's just you want to do whatever the opposite your parents do. So I was like, no. And I think it like came from that. And Carson's a photographer and a videographer. And sometimes when he's, you know, took out his camera in the past, I've been like, oh, geez. But like, seeing it on like having those memories, it's totally made me have a different perspective on carrying a camera in places. And now I love it. You know, now I'm like, I think it's so, cool and I see the, you know, I'm like a total buffoon and I'm, I don't think about like the artistic value until like I see it right in front of me. And, you know, so that's cool. And we got, we got some good stuff yesterday. Well, I also think that, I mean, those adventures and getting

cool content and seeing you and your element can inspire. You know what I mean? Because you're still, you were so young when you won, but you're still very young. And you know there's people, young runners out they're looking at you going, I want that. I want to know what that feels like. Yeah, I hope so. And like, what, like, we talked about yesterday is, like, the thing that the sport needs, especially in the women's side, is more young women getting into it and make it deciding, like, you know, like, I thought for a long time that I was going to pursue the pro track career route.

And, but, like, you know, I didn't love that. I really love running. I really love the process of training. But, like, you know, I hope that, like, you know, chicks in college. right now who are like running going through the motions of a track career because they see that that's where they can be you know have a pro career see people like Courtney especially and hopefully me too and everyone that's at the top right now women's ultra running or even just mountain running like you don't have to run ultras in fact like maybe don't if you're if you're you don't like

to build up to it but I hope people see women specifically see it and they're like man there's another option other than running around circles, you know, running on pavement like an eye. And it also like caters to people who are overall athletes. Hey guys, you want to be as smart as famed neuroscientist Andrew Huberman, PhD at Stanford? Well, sadly, that's probably not going to happen. But I did find something that can help and that's HVMN ketone IQ. I actually down one right before reading this. So if I sound decent, it's probably why.

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Use code CAM, CAM, for 20% off your first order. Cabellas and Bass Pro Shops is a sponsor of the podcast. And that's especially powerful for me because I remember when Cabellas came to town, came to Springfield, Oregon. And I actually played a role in the opening of that store. Instead of cutting the grand opening ribbon with scissors, I shot it with an arrow. And it was just a monumental thing.

I mean, everybody here in town was talking about, hey, are you going to go to Cabellas? Can you believe Cabellas is coming here to Springfield, Oregon? So I know what a staple, those giants in the industry are. And it's actually, it's one of the first places people go when they're looking to get geared up to become a hunter as they go to Cabellas and buy everything they need. So I'm very excited that we've partnered together. And we can help open up those outdoor and hunting opportunities to listeners of this podcast. I'm not just a runner.

Like I like to do a ton of stuff and like the other stuff that I do I think helps my running when I'm a mountain runner. To be a good track runner, you become very, very good at running and very bad at everything else. Yeah, it's pretty specialized.

You know, they run straight. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. But you were a track coach. No, my dad. Oh, your dad was, your dad was. But didn't you say you coached before

for a little bit? I coached Courtney from the couch the other day saying maybe her struggling helped her. Yeah. No, I'm not a coach. Yeah. No, I did. My dad coached for many years. Okay.

But yeah, I never even ran track. Oh, you didn't? No, I played baseball. Okay, nice. So, yeah, I mean, we would make fun of people who ran track because we were baseball players. So, yeah, I didn't get into running until later, but I really now, the way, What I love about running is the discipline is weird because it's discipline and freedom. Yeah.

You know, to get good at running in the mounds, you have to be disciplined. But there's nothing more freeing than running off trail down a mound over rocks and logs and being, or being on the top of the summit. It's like, can you be any more free? But to get there, you have to have discipline. Yeah, totally. And that's the thing. Like the freedom is, yeah, ripping down and like feeling it all click. but also the freedom is in being in a spot that you're like,

I don't know if anyone's been up here in the last 10 years. You know, like obviously someone at some point, especially here, has been there. But like, you know, not the person sitting next to you at the office. You know, there's no way. And that's pretty cool.

So did hunting or ultra running or did running in general come first? You can't ask me a question. I told you we're co-hosting here. This is my part. I'm just kidding. I'm flipping it around. Okay, go ahead. So, so you didn't run track.

Your dad was a track coach, but you didn't get into hunting until your stepdad took you out. So like, were you a runner before then? I just ran to get in shape for football. For football. Yeah. All I cared about was scoring touchdowns, I guess. And just being, you know, that got mostly attention at school was if you played football. Yep, yeah.

And so my goal, I was friends with. quarterback we lived on the same road small town so it was like we lived on winling road which is a road the high school was on and we would just get together every day and i'd run routes and he'd throw the ball so that was all that's that was my running but we would run this local race in town called the beute to beaut it's a 10k and it's on the 4th of july every year we'd run that every year and if i could i don't even think back then i could break 40 minutes i think i'd get like 44 And his dad, Donnie's dad, would break 40. And we'd think he was like just the biggest stud.

So breaking 40 and the 10K. But yeah, so that's where it started. And then it just kind of evolved from there. And then I still wasn't because I was such a fuck up drinking and being, you know, trying to figure out how to be married and all that shit. I didn't even run a marathon until I was, I think, 32 or 34. And then so for the last 20 years now, that's what I'm. what I've done, but I didn't run a marathon until I was older than you.

So I'm so curious because like, you know, so much of your brand is like, keep hammering, go, go. But sometimes what I like best about running is like, you know, and you said yesterday that you can't go slow. Sometimes I love just like, putzing around like, la la la la. Do you like do that at all? Do you like take, you know, and sometimes the running, just like you say that shooting your bow is the time where you're just blank and you can't think about anything else.

That's kind of like running's always been for me. I'm excited to shoot my bone out because sometimes running is not that. Do you like take those opportunities to just like, you know, kind of go slow and be meditative? Or is it always just to like hammer? Oh, no, no. I just, I don't wear a watch. So I don't really, when I say slow, to some people, even my fast would be slow. I mean, I've run with Centroitz who won the gold medal and my fastest would be slow to him.

So for me, yeah, I run mostly relaxed, but I don't even know what. pace it is. I just know when I did that last man standing and I couldn't run slow enough. It was just like that was hard. That's such a weird thing that you can run slow up a mountain or run slow. Like we weren't crushing yesterday. I mean we had we were super conversational the whole time. It was fun. But like it's such a weird weird thing that you can pace yourself in a 200 mile race, which like is objectively you're off the gun slow. And then especially like you did Moab, right? that's like pretty flat for a lot of it. But like a five mile loop for a last man standing.

I think it's because there was a finish line on every loop. Yeah. So I always want to get there and then see what happens. And I would just because I wanted to get there and get it done, because you have to get it done to get to the next one. So it was just a weird. I think it's just best the format. You got to figure out how to not screw it up.

I think those are so hard because there's, you know, you're not just trying to get to one finish line. You're trying to get to as many as you can an unforeseen amount of, and for people who are listening who don't know these types of races, you're running a loop. In his case, it was five miles in one hour. And you don't start, you start on the hour every hour until no one's left until no one can do it anymore. It kind of reminds me of this workout that I used to do in high school called buses, like the bus leaves on the schedule. no matter what. Okay.

You know, and we do these for 400s and like, so if you ran a fast or 400, but we weren't doing them like, you know, we weren't trying to kill each other doing them, you know, that would have been different. We did it start on the, what did it start on? Track. No, but on the minute? No, it wouldn't be the minute. 90 seconds.

90 seconds. Okay. So we were all running like 75s, you know. Yeah. And we do a lot like in the middle of season, we do like 20 of them, which is like so many 400s. Oh my God. Sounds brutal.

Yeah, it was brutal. But like it's just like that. But you know, we knew there is a finish to that. Yeah. It's just it's a different. Yeah, that format is getting more popular because it's fun. I mean, but for me, it was just my first one. So I did 11 hours, 55 miles. And actually what got me was there was a dairy queen.

So it's funny. We had dairy queen yesterday. But I had my wife bring me dairy queen at like one. So this is about maybe five hours. five hours into it. And I ate this blizzard and then took off and I, after I ate that ice cream, I couldn't eat anymore. So that's what screwed up my stomach. Yeah, you're like 10 minutes to eat a blizzard. Right. And so once my stomach got screwed up, I couldn't take in calories. And then then it's the beginning of the end. You know how ultra is you have to take calories in. And after a long

day when you can't, that's, there's going to be an ending expiration date on your run, basically. And that's what happened to me. Yeah. That's what I tell people that I coach for Ultras, like, you know, even if you're puking, like that's not an excuse to stop taking in calories. It's just, you know, you just have to troubleshoot it. Because when you stop taking in calories, that that is the end. It's, you know, the puking isn't necessarily the end. And no. And I've had to learn that the hard way. I puk in like pretty much every single race that I do and not just where at? Like what part of the race usually? It really, it seems to be getting later and later. But I like, at Western, I was puking like at mile 50 or something, you know.

The year you won? Yeah, I've only done Western once. And at UTMB, same thing. I was peaking super early. And I, like, on paper had a good day there, except I didn't follow my rule. And, like, I didn't take calories in afterwards. I was like, I can't take anymore. And what I should have done is just, like, figured out what works instead.

Yeah. You know, because that's what's so cool about ultras is like, it's, you know, it's just a constant problem solved, problem to solve. Like, and that's the same as like, you know, the shooting your bow, you can't, you literally, if you're thinking about other shit when you're running ultras or when, especially when you're trying to win them, you're not going to do well. Like my, as soon as I leave one aid station, I'm thinking about the next one, like what I'm going to need there. What I know is you have to always be either drinking, eating, or thinking about salt. Oh, yeah. It's like, so if you get distracted and you think you're, oh, I'm just in a groove, you're going to fuck up. Because you have to always be thinking about those three things.

And that's the other thing. You don't, you don't always know exactly what you need. So you have to experiment with salt, for example. That's a great thing. Like you don't like you could be, if your hands are swollen, it could mean you need. either more water or more salt, you know, so you have to be like, okay, I'm going to like, chug this bottle of water. I'm either going to puke or get way more swollen or it's going to work and my hands will deswell.

So, like, you have to figure out which one you need because your body will tell you, but you sometimes have to experiment and, like, feel worse before you course correct and feel better. Is that, to me, that's my big, my first indicators, my fingers start to get, my hand and fingers start to get tight because they swell. Dude, my hands get so fat. It's crazy. And that's when I know I'm usually dehydrated. Yeah, for me, it really could mean like not necessarily dehydrated, but more salt.

Or it could mean that I'm taking too much salt and not enough water. I did that. I did a race last year called Crazy Mountain. It was the first year they did the 100. And I got, I had my salt so screwed up. I had Mike McKnight there and Ben Light. They were both their crew and my brother. So I had like the all-star crew.

routine, right? I should be fucking killing it. But I was taking 50 milligrams of salt and I thought I was used to taking their different pill and I was taking like these chewable things that only had 50. I was used to taking 400. So I was taking so little salt and then I fell behind and then tried to catch up and my body. I mean, my arms were swollen. Oh yeah. My legs were. It was like and then I had to I had to piss like every five minutes a lot of piss. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing. If you don't have salt, your body, like, can't process the water.

So you're pissing clear, you know? And you're like, and that's the mistake that new ultra runners make is they're like, oh, I'm hydrated. I'm pissing clear. I'm in the, I'm like doing everything right. But that's like not the case. I knew something was up because I was just peeing too much. Yeah.

And I'm like, this isn't, something's fucked up. Yeah. A little leaky. I finished, but it was hard. Brutal. It was hard. And that's the thing too when your hydration is messed up. Your, you know, your legs get way, like, way more sore.

You've got to think of your muscles as like a sponge. And if they don't have water in them, they're not going to take that impact well. You know, they're just going to be like a dry sponge and it's going to hurt way more. So, like, I always tell people if you're really hurting at like mile 20, you're not supposed to be hurting that bad at mile 20. Like 20 miles is tiring and hard for anyone, but your legs shouldn't feel like jarred. That means likely that you are dehydrated or have an electrolyte imbalance. And like, again, it's just like troubleshooting. You know, but either way, if your legs feel like that in mile 20 and you're well trained,

then like it's hydration, always. Right. I'm always putting constant stress on my body, which is why I decided to try mudwater. And it has been a game changer in regard to mental folks. The blend of adaptogenic mushrooms, cortisps, and lions mane, all support focus, physical performance, and are great for the immune system. Now, these aren't the hallucinogenic type of mushrooms, but I do like that mudwater gives back to the Berkeley Center for the science of using psychedelics to help treat individuals with mental health disorders. Go to mudwater.com, that's MUDWTR. Use code cam for 15% off your first order. So I'm curious, with you winning at 24 and having to overcome all the things you did after getting hit, being a teacher, starting early, fitting training around of this, and now you focus on this full time, it's like how good does that feel?

Or where do you think like your ceiling is? Yeah, you know, what's funny is like I'm not really quite full time right now because I coach, you know, I coach 35 athletes right now. I fucking love coaching. I also do a lot of brand work. I work for Method 7, a sunglasses company. I have like a pro contract where I get paid, but I want to get to the point where I can like just coach like 10 athletes maybe and just because I love it. That gives me, you know, you got to think about the thing, the balance of like what gives

you energy and what drains it. Like that's something that gives me energy. I think, you know, if I was truly running full time and could like spend. the extra 10 minutes, you know, rolling out my calf when instead of just like at night before bed, you know, that's, that's the big difference. And I'm trying to get there. And like a big part of what we're talking about is like, you need, you know, and I have really amazing sponsors right now that I love. But I've been injured for a long time. And so my, I know I've been performing at like half mass, like literally, like, or showing up like literally half of my body is not working. And now

finally is. And I think the next key is that is like taking some of the things off my plate. And, you know, that's either going to take someone really believing in me. And not saying my sponsors don't believe in me. They totally do here again. Like I've been injured for four years, like just putting together pieces. But, you know, given me the resources so I can take on less work. Or it's going to mean like, you know, Carson and I really, really tighten our belt for like, you know, a year. and me not work so much so I can just solely. And we're kind of getting to that point where I'm like I am, you know, I'm working with all these amazing people like this strength coach that I was talking about.

He's giving me a discount but still costs money, you know, and he's awesome and all the body work and shit, like especially with the traumatic injuries. Like I need that stuff to be able to do it. And then I also need to recover, you know, when I'm like working full time, trying to spend time with family. And like that's something that I'm not willing to sacrifice as like quality time. with my husband. But like I'm willing to sacrifice some other stuff and like the recovery piece is everything. And you know, I have a good friend that ran with Emma Coburn College, your friend.

And she's like, Emma is like obviously so talented. But I think what really sets her part is she knows how to recover. Right. You know, that one percent, there's so many talented people out there. And that one percent is like the people who are able to be like, I'm going to freaking sit on this couch for a couple hours after my workout. And that's something that's really hard for me to do too. But I think that's going to be the difference. And you just see people now in ultra running. It's been there in the med side for a while, but in the women's side, it's finally

getting there where women can do this full time. Yeah. And I honestly do think that's what it's going to take for me. And I, you know, I never want to talk about the ceiling for me or for anyone because I, you know, I believe in Courtney's proved this, like the limit does not. exist. And like, you know, I also want to like go through all of it for the right reasons and like love every every part of it, even the suffering because that's, you know, I do. I'm sick, you know. Yeah. And I want to really, I don't want to like think about the races I'm going to win,

but I want to get the best out of myself. Yeah. And I, you know, like, I know I'm like not even close to where I am the best, where I am the best. You know, here I am. I'm working, like, on the computer at least 40 hours a week. I'm still, like, happy, levin it. I'm, you know, 17 weeks out of this hip thing. And I'm running really well already while working and traveling a lot. And I'm still, like, feeling so good.

So, like, every single day, I just want to focus on getting the most out of myself. And sometimes that's going to mean, like, training really hard. resting really hard. But like, that's what I want to see. I think, yeah, you mentioned Emma. She, she would, when I was working full time, I would, you know, get a few hours of sleeping night, train a lot of miles the next day and sort of say like joking a little bit, but, you know, guys are.

I'd say rest days are for pussy. It's like I said it on Rogan. Totally. Just kind of fucking around. But she would always talk about she needs her sleep. She's like, would question, you know, because I'd run maybe on a few hours. But I think so your point and her example in I would, I would wager that Courtney knows this too. It's like that sleep and that maybe not maybe rest, yes, but also sleep is so important.

And to me, when I think of you and your life you described, it's like even if you're not actually on the computer, you're thinking about shit. You know what I mean? And so can you really rest and get to sleep and rest you need when you're distracted by all these 100 different things you got to keep track of? No. And I and like I and maybe because I always have so much going on in my head, like I don't sleep deeply, you know? And I think that is a huge part of it. And so, you know, and like it's taking those steps and making those sacrifices. And like one thing that we just did, I've always bought shitty mattresses.

And Carson and I just bawled out on a mattress. Like we made the commitment. And, you know, and that's really cool. about having a partner that's like, you know, I'm here for your dreams and I'm here for his. And like, but we're like, you know, sleep is everything in this. Sleep isn't something that I haven't conquered. You know, you see it as something you can conquer. I'm a shitty sleeper.

I'm like, you know, okay, I'm going to read my book for like four hours before bed to shut my brain off, you know. And, you know, so it is making those sacrifices. And it is like, you know, when you're working a lot, your nervous system is always like, like on, you know, it's always taxed. And it is like those little things. And I read this book once, I forget about running. I mean, I hardly ever read running books. I think it was called Braveie. Yeah, Bravey by Alexi Poppuss. And she talks about willpower being a finite source. You know, you only have so much willpower. And you can like build your stores of willpower. You like,

it can be trained like anything else. You can increase it by doing hard things. But at the end of the day when you line up for a race, you only have a finite source of willpower. And you got to make sure those batteries are charged before. And like, you know, in the last couple years, especially like with this injury, I haven't been getting the contracts that'll, and like totally on me, not the brands. Like I will not be getting the contracts that will, you know, allow me to not work. And so I'm like, you know, the last race that I did or like two races ago, but the last one too, I was like, the race with how to 6 p.m. start, I'm working till four when we leave, you know. And so I get to the start line. And it's not just working. It's like scrambling to get everything done because of like

travel. And then my willpower is like, okay, even if it's like I'm on the couch all day, it's still like maybe a quarter drained. Then like, then I can't tap into that 100% and like I'm really tough. I know that. But I definitely also know that how taxing that is on me. Because I've like come with a rested body, come to a start line with a rested body. And like, you know. And I'm like, but it tapped out like, you know, willpower battery and like just not had, even though I've like tried to push, I haven't had that extra umph, you know, to get me there. Yeah. I mean, it makes perfect sense.

It's just like you can only, you can only dedicate yourself 100% to so many things. And ultra running, I don't even know, you're just pushing your body as hard as it can actually, probably pass where it normally would, any normal human would push. So to do that also being with your willpower being tested, that's, I mean, it's too much to ask. But what I envision like for you, what I, a perfect world would be, yeah, you could cut back some of this. You could get more rest. And then these sponsors who you said have been, they've stood by you with all the surgeries in the years. I want those sponsors to be like, what do we got to do to keep this girl?

You know what I mean? She is kicking so much ass. And it's just like, I feel like all this, you overcame so much and still. on Western, what if you had everything focused and you were healthy and you were resting and you were like just more in tune with these goals? And then these sponsors, you'd get those contracts, you know, because they'd be like, holy shit, she's, and you're only 30. And I'm like really trying to get back there and I'm trying to, like something that Carson and I are doing are, we're like stripping down all our excess right now. And that's something that we talk.

about because both he and I, we like love adventure. We, we can't plan for shit because we're like, what if we plan something? And then are the next opportunity we can't seize. And like, even, you know, planning for his 30th with it, which is July 29th, like we are, you know, we're like, okay, this was hard to plan, you know, because we, we didn't know where we were going to be and we didn't want to say no to anything. It's finally planned. But like, and that's, and that's the key is I, And I want that. I want to be able to just focus on running and like, you know, still have the other little pieces that are are there.

But I, I want to, you know, I had a super hard call with my agent last year. You know, and this is before I got the, and part of it was like making the commitment to getting the hip fixed. But he called me up and Tyler, my agent, like, he's so awesome. And he, I was his first athlete. like he can be super real with me. And his business is kind of blown up since. And he called me and he was like, cat, this is, if you blow this right now,

you're not getting back, you know, this is, you're, you're going to tarnish your reputation with brands. And it was just because I was taking out too much. And I wasn't, you know, I had this opportunity to run as a professional athlete, but because of all the injuries and all the stuff, I wasn't taking it as seriously. And that was a wake-up call, you know, and it's been a year since that conversation. And every day I've been taking. those steps to make sure that I don't lose this and that not only that, but I seize it.

Yeah. And, you know, I got, again, you know, huge props to my husband for pushing me to get my hip fix because I was, you know, you're like one more race. I'm just going to do one more. And he was like, you know, I did this race in New Zealand a week before a wedding. And like who, I fainted in Mile 85. I saw third place. And I was like pop in Advil like crazy.

Like because of my hip, it was in so much pain. Yeah. And like, who knows why I fainted? There's, you know, a big question mark there. It could have been hyperneutremia. It could have just been like I was in a shit little pain. You know, it could have been stressed. Yeah.

And, you know, after that, he was like, I'm done. He was like, I'm done watching you do this to yourself. And I honestly, I don't know if I would have taken that. You know, it's hard to like be able to. to, I was able to run. I was able to go out and run still, but it didn't feel good. But, you know, being, making the choice to be like, okay, I'm going to be on crutches for six weeks.

Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm healthy today and I'm making the choice to not be able to walk. Not only that, but like to need help sitting on the toilet. So we put a freaking cooler in the shower so I could shower. Like I'm just, Carson was like, here's something that you can sit on. And I was like, uh. Yeah. Okay.

You know, and I wouldn't have done that, but I'm so grateful I did because of the day like yesterday. And also it makes you appreciate, you know, that I am able to do that at any point and that I am healthy. Healthy and able-bodied. And there's like so many people who aren't who look at me complaining about just as a little hip thing that I could like live with fine without surgery. But he's, you know, so that like, and that's just like shows sometimes like we are. our own worst enemy. Like that was totally, totally idiotic. I was told I needed this two years ago by like several people. One guy, one doctor was like, you maybe could get away with PT, maybe. And I was like, PT.

Focus on that. Yeah. That's what you wanted to hear. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I think that, I do think that it is a balancing act with just knowing you how I do now. It's like, because hearing the stories about you did the abolition trail when you're 19, it feels like, Um, you still, the structure is good for some people. I feel like you, you need structure, but also freedom. Totally. And it's like with all those other commitments, it's hard to have both because you're, you're giving up, you're either giving up freedom or you're giving up structure or giving

up rest. So it was like with your personality, you have to, yeah, here's my structure. I'm following, but I need to be able to whatever, chase the wind some days. Yeah. And you know what is going right now is rest. Like I average maybe five hours of sleep You know

Right Run like training Yeah You know They'll say you need nine For giving to miles Or what you're asking of your body It's like eight or nine

Nine plus naps Yeah And You know I And that is That's what's going Is the rest Because like everything else

I I'm such like An opportunist I And I I don't want to give that up Like That's something I love about myself

And I think you can probably relate. I just got to seize everything. We got to do all the adventures. We got to. Yeah. Missing out. That's why I hate sleeping because of that. I mean, actually, when I'm sleeping, I'm like, I could be doing something.

I know. I know. It's, nobody talks about cool shit that happened when they're asleep. Yeah. But when you're doing stuff, so that's where I have, I struggle. I feel like I'm wasting time. But so it's like changing that mindset. It's like, no, this is, this is helping me do everything else I want to do.

Yeah, but it's hard. It's hard and then, you know, it'll, it does catch up to you. Like, I'll be fine for like two weeks. I'm not a lot of sleep and then have a full blown mental breakdown, you know, which is like, not me. I'm pretty even killed. And all of a sudden I'll like, you know, be like, I need to quit. You know, and then, you know, the person will be like, you just need a nap. I like it.

Please. Like, please. Yeah. Being crazy. Yeah. And then I'll wake up and I'll be totally fine, you know. But it's hard. And it's really hard to, it takes time to consciously make those life changes and steps.

You know, again, a big part of it is like, again, we just moved back to Hawaii. And we're going to be traveling in the mainland and stuff. But we were had a place in Colorado and a place in Hawaii where we grew up and like going back and forth and renting back and forth. And then having to also travel for work all the time. or running is like so managing tenants that's like oh man it's crazy there's like one time my last tenant um there there there's like a bunch of coke on the table when we moved out and I'm like and you still couldn't pay rent on time yeah that's usually how it works I know I was like what yeah probably a long history of not making good decisions for that person yep and then when I'd ask for rent

and called me snappy and then talk to cars and be like, why can't you be more like that nice guy? I'm like, ah. I understand. Yeah. So that's that's draining your willpower for other stuff, right? Oh my God. So much. And it showed like that that was a year ago and like now we're making these decisions to like strip down and already just like having, knowing that I have a spot to return to no matter what that's like, you know, that was so much stress. And I was a nomad for a long time like lived in my car for a long time. Yeah. I had a place, but I was moved, I'd like Airbnb my spot where when I was like in Europe

racing and, you know, and, and I like could never stay still, you know, I, like, I didn't live in a consistent, like, spot growing up either. I was always moving around. And I think, like, this year, I was like, God damn it, I need to nest. And I realized that was part of, like, my, it was so draining on my willpower. Yeah. And, like, when I won Western, like, because I was teaching and because I had the schedule, like, I just showed up.

I didn't have to think about it. Yeah. And leave even though I was like broke all the time. I was all in. I was like almost more all in on running than I am now. There was structure. There was structure. And like, you know, I still had weekends.

I still had like a summer. But now it's like I, it's like, you know, it's putting out fires all the time. I'm sure you can relate. Like now you. Yeah. It's I do notice when, because I quit work in October. But when I had to get to work. I used to have to fit everything around that.

So I would be like, oh, I got to get up early and get my run in before work. And then now that I don't have like a work day, sometimes I don't run until five at night. I was like, what the hell did I do all day? I got more done when I had a job. Totally. Yeah, so it's hard. That structure is a blessing and a curse. It's a curse because you don't get the rest, but you have that structure to build whatever you're training around.

Yeah. And like sometimes I think the beauty is. is like, you know, I, what helps is like I can, I mean with my strength coach at 5 a.m. You know, and then I get my workout in. And then, you know, right now I, you know, then I start meetings and shit at 10 a.m. And having that is great. And I don't want to lose that when I am working a little bit less, you know. And like, you know, I can still do that run at 5.

And I think it's good for me personally to do my stuff in the morning. Like I'm more motivated. My day is better. And then imagine like I've finished 10. I can like eat so much food, like, which is like half of it. When I'm in meetings and stuff, I'm like, shit, I'm in meetings 10 to 2. I just ran 12 miles and lifted. You know, and like.

You need a bunch of calories. Well, you have a bow now. You need to go kill pigs. Oh, yeah. That's going to fuel you. We're talking about going and run, you know, the bow that I got is, what's it called? The bow that I got. You didn't even tell me.

Well, it's a keep hammering version of the, do you know what it's called, Tanner? It's not the Torex. Where is that? Where is that bow? Oh, it's right over there. Yeah, because I need to, that's how I end this podcast. Oh, it's talking about the bow. By handing you the bow.

Oh, we're like about that time. I know, I know. It's been going so fast. Yeah. Can you come over here, Carson? Yeah, thank you. Let me look at this one, right? Yeah, so thank you.

Appreciate it. Oh, it's a cobalt. Cobalt. Yeah, cobalt. So this is going to be, and I say pig, I mean wild boar. Yeah, wild boar. So people who don't, maybe they think you're going to go get to kill a pig in a farm or what. No, these are wild animals.

Who are super dangerous. Yeah, they have big tusks. Big tusks in Hawaii when I was growing up. I used to be, I used to like run in the woods. and I used to be afraid of the pigs more than I'm afraid of the cougars here. And I've seen cougars in mountain lion in Colorado. And in Mexico, like, you know, Mexico, at mile 75. You know, it was burly.

And then in Colorado a lot. And I was more afraid of the pigs growing up because they're kind of wild cards. You know, you don't know. Definitely. But anyway, we were talking. I was kind of bummed at first because I couldn't pull back the heavier bow. And it was like a little heavy for me to carry. just hold. But this one is light enough. Now I'm pulling it back way heavier and I can

run with it. I can go there's this super awesome spot that you can only get to by trail or boat, but even boat like not I've never seen a boat there and we're gonna run in with this bow and and you spend a little time and just killing pigs. God, it's gonna be so fun. I can't wait to see the results of that. This is I mean it's been so fun. And then just seeing your eyes light up when you shoot a bow and talk about this hunt and talk about running in and doing this. It's like, I know it's going to be very special. Yeah, it is. It's going to be really, I can't wait to, you know, it's one thing to shoot a bow, which I've done.

And then another thing to like have one that's cited in for you. And then to all these plans that I've been making with Carson and my brother-in-law, Alex, we, we like are suddenly possible. You know, we've made these plans. We've been excited. But they're like pipe dreams. Yeah. Now it's possible. Now it's getting real.

And, you know, I mean, the time where you're going to be in bow range of a pig and you pull back and you do all the checks and balance that we just did out there. Because that's all going to be second nature because you're going to be going through these reps over and over and over. So when that pen settles on that pig and that arrow berries, it's going to be sweet. And it's like people who don't hunt might make wonder that might sound a little. little weird, but, you know, as a hunter, we need to kill to survive. As a, as a human, you kill to survive. You might not be doing the killing yourself. You might be paying somebody to kill for you, but you're still killing. But as a hunter where you're doing it yourself and you're like, yeah, this is uncomfortable. This is maybe what not everybody would enjoy, but this serves a purpose.

And it doesn't feel good. Like, I'm a, you know, no one would ever know this, but I'm pretty sensitive. Like killing stuff does not make me feel good. And I, you know, I've posted photos of hunting before and I've gotten all kinds of nasty comments about how can you do that. And like, but like it doesn't ever feel good. I'm, you know, I saw those fons yesterday and like the, my like women instincts like go, ah, babies. Yeah, I sland on the brakes. I don't want to kill anything. It's so scary.

But like, you know, you got to, you know, when you pick up meat in the grocery store and I eat meat, I've tried to go vegetarian, just be environmentally. because I know, yeah, environmentally conscious. And I also run by factory farms and I like want to fom it. It's so messed up. And like, but like where's the last time you thought about where your your beef came from, you know? And that like, that's like that it's the same like little stain on my conscious, like that same like guilt. And like, you know, pigs in Hawaii, they are, they are messing things out. They need to be killed.

literally to the point where the government is taking helicopters and gunning them down and machine guns, you know, just because they're like, we don't know what to do. These are such a big problem. Yeah, they're invasive. To get food, save money in Hawaii, which food is so expensive. A box of checks is $8, you know. And then, like, feed us for a while and, like, do something good for our home that we feel super passionately about. Like, that's, that's, like, a dream.

It's powerful. Yeah. Yeah. It's power to be in a hunter. Yeah, it's not always comfortable, but it's necessary. Yeah. And it's like it gives ownership like I provided this. I killed this.

Now I'm eating it and it's helping me sustain life. And that's, you know, you can say like because it kind of lets you off the hook. Some people, they don't think about it. They're buying a steak at the store. They're not, they don't want to connect the dots because it doesn't feel good. And but even though it doesn't feel good to hunt and to kill an animal, to actually kill, it feels good to say, yeah, I did this and this is what it takes to live. And it's like, it's empowering.

It's not always comfortable, but it's very empowering. And I'm pumped that you're going to be doing it. Thank you so much. Yeah. I know. Well, thank you, Kat, again. I mean, I've had the best time. It's been so fun.

Thank you for coming. And I can't wait to do it again. Yeah, let's go. All right. Well, we can close this out. Keep hammering. Cat out. Black Rifle Coffee Company is a company that's very easy for me to promote because I drink coffee all day, every day. But more importantly, they are a huge supporter of the veteran community and are a veteran-known business, so they have my full support.

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