Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 033 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

Let's embark on an enlightening odyssey through health, performance, and personal evolution, joined by the brilliant Dr. Rhonda Patrick.   Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Dr. Rhonda Patrick:  https://www.instagram.com/foundmyfitness/reels/?hl=en  https://www.foundmyfitness.com/newsletter   Thank you to our sponsors: Santa Cruz Medicinals: scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com   Timestamps: 0:00:00 Introduction 0:13:28 Protein and Timing for Muscle Repair 0:25:30 The Importance of Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0:33:10 The Miracle Supplement  0:39:20 The Importance of Sleep and Exercise 0:42:00 Exercising Because of Poor Sleep  0:52:13 Morning for Performance and Night for Creativity 0:56:08 Importance of Sun Light 0:57:00 Rhonda’s Patrick’s Knowledge Journey 1:06:22 Concerns About GMOs and Food Processing 1:12:30 Vaccine Decisions and GMO Concerns for Children 1:18:57 Opinions on Vaccine Mandates and COVID-19 1:26:14 Opinions on COVID-19 Vaccines for College Students 1:30:00 COVID-19 Origins 1:34:14 Vaccine Effects and Personal Experiences 1:42:15 Hunting, Archery, and Gratitude 1:46:00 LRS Recap 1:48:30 Thoughts on Hunting  

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If you make a purchase on the website, make sure you use code CAM for 20% off and free shipping. Keep hammering and may the odds be in your favor. One of the favorite packages that I get on a monthly basis is the Black Rifle Coffee Club exclusive coffee roast. The only way you can get it is if you subscribe to the coffee club. This month's coffee is a dark roast called Midnight Rider. This elusive roast delivers a fruity aroma, bright acidity, and taste notes of berry, cane sugar, and melon.

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I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammering Collective. I'm here with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Man, I'm so excited that you're here. I can't believe you're here, actually. It's been so fun.

Like the day yesterday doing the archery. Lift and shoot. The lift run shoot. Yeah. And the run, the hill hike, doing it in like the hot part of the day. That was, that was, it was intense, but awesome. And then coming back and lifting weights like heavier than I've ever done. My goal is to make it memorable. Well, two things. Make it memorable and push people beyond what they've normally done. That's, I just like, I like seeing people out of their quote, comfort zone because I think people, they get used to doing a certain thing. to acting a certain way and people are used to that. But when everybody changes a little bit, when you're like in this new space,

where even if it's activity or it could be cognitive, but you're in this new area that you're not typically in, it's like it kind of pulled back the curtain. And I love doing that. I love seeing what makes people take and what they're capable of. And you like were awesome yesterday. Well, that's where it happens. You know, like when you, like you said,

when you kind of push past that. And it's amazing how like if I am traveling or something, you know, with my family or work routine, something takes me out of like just even like we were talking about being sedentary, like if you can't, like if I can't do my normal like exercise stuff. And then all of a sudden I'm in this other routine. And it's like it feels like I've been doing it forever, even though it's only been, you know, like three or four days. And I'm like, I feel like I've been a sedentary person for my whole life.

Right. And so it's like if you don't keep pushing, like you can get comfortable. Yes. Quick. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like quick.

Yeah. I mean, at least I can. Maybe not you. No, I can't. If I miss a day, me and my boys, we talk about, you know, we feel skinny fat. So that's like the worst thing is to be skinny arms, fat stomach. Yeah. So one day after doing it, you could do it for years.

And it seems like in one day you're like, it's all gone in your head anyway. And you're like, oh, God, I'm, you know. I'm skinny fat now, but it's a... That's the worst kind of fat. So that, you said fat around your stomach, it's called visceral fat. And that's actually a type of fat that is kind of deeper too, and it surrounds your organs. And it's different than this like subcutaneous fat, you know, as grass have. But I mean, it's very much associated, again, with cancer risk.

It increases like cytokines and stuff, pro-inflammatory. cytokines that are had that have been linked to cancer. So that visceral fat and heart disease and, you know, metabolic dysfunction is the worst kind. Why is it that like, well, it seems like it's a little bit different for men and women, but guys get that around their stomach first, you know, like the love handles type thing. And then women might get back of the arms, back of the legs. What determines where that fat, why are we gaining fat there? I don't know the answer of that. I'm sure someone does. I mean, there's definitely, women get it like postmenopause there. Right? So there's, there's got to be a hormonal thing going on. But it's a good question.

But you see guys like with, you know, their legs could have no fat on. I'm super skinny. Their arms, whatever, but it's up in the stomach. Yeah. And that's obviously that's the. That's the bad part. It is. It's not only nobody likes how it looks, but as you said, it like increases cancer risk and everything else. But yeah, so yesterday it was cool because you said you do you lift weights with your dumbbells eight pounds, right? I do. I usually do eight pounds. I have like a Peloton guided workout that I do because I've always been an endurance junkie and not like you, but like yeah, you know, like it's running, jumping rope, you know, that's those are sort of my jam, right? Yeah. Surfing. But the lifting weights, I got really into it in the last, I would say, since last summer in particular.

Your arms are, are, are, I'm getting some tone, right? Like, yeah, no, I mean, it's, and of course that's reinforcing, right? Yeah, yeah, you see results, you want to work harder. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, getting into the science of muscle mass was really what convinced me. And there's two major signals for muscle mass. protein intake, amino acids, and mechanical work or forces, right? So both of those two things stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

So that is happening in skeletal muscle. Right. And both of those things, I really hadn't focused a lot on in the past. And we're in control of both those. A lot of people talk about things that are out of their control, you know. But we control how much protein we eat, how much resistance we're putting our body under. We do. And it's, you know, the people aren't, so let's talk about protein intake. Yeah. Because the R. So there's the RDA for protein intake. And this had me, this was like, oh, yeah.

Recommended daily allowance. Yeah. 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight. I think that's something like 0.32 grams per pound. Okay. Something like that. Yeah. But, you know, for the longest time, it was like, oh, I think that's, you know, that's the, that's the RDA. And it wasn't until I had Stuart Phillips on, Dr. Stewart Phillips, who's an amazing, you know, research scientist. He's very well respected in like the bodybuilding community, but also in the scientific community. And he has done studies as well as like others where they're actually looked, it's their tracer studies. So protein, unlike fat or unlike, you know, carbohydrates which form glucose, you can store glucose, right?

glycogen in your muscle or your liver, you can store fatty acids, right? Like those triglycerizers get stored in adipose tissue. Like that's energy reserve. You can have that stored. Protein you have to replace, like amino acids. Well, your muscle does serve as a reservoir for it, but you don't want to pull from that because then you're catabolic, right? So that's not ideal.

Whereas you want to pull, you want to get the fat storage. Yes. So you have to replace those amino acids and you need to. need like protein to, I mean, protein is like building everything, everything in your body is run by proteins, which are made up of amino acids. You need to replace them. So it's important to take in the protein. So anyways, there's tracer studies that were done where the scientist at the time were

trying to figure out, okay, well how much protein do humans, on average, need to take in to to prevent, to replace the losses, basically how much you lose each day. And so it was like these nitrogen balance studies. And there was lots of flaws in those studies, apparently like the technology that was used, the methods. It's all about the sensitivity of your assay and what method you're doing, right?

Right. And so they were basically underestimating losses of the nitrogen. And so like new studies have come out, and again, not just from Stu Phillips, but like others, where it's more like, 1.2 grams per kilogram body weight a day is the minimum to like not be catabolic. That's not the optimum for muscle hypertrophy, right? But just not being catabolic. Bodybuilders say get big,

eat big. So yeah. I mean, and then those studies have been done where it's like, well, you know, if you start going up to like 1.6, 2.2 grams per kilogram body weight, then you're in, you know, particularly in combination with resistance training. So, you know, how much protein you need depends on a lot of factors. Right. Your age for one, so age is important because as we get older, like 65-year-olds, you know, and older, your body isn't as sensitive to amino acids. So muscle protein synthesis isn't stimulated as much as when you're younger.

So at least at a higher dose. So you need to take in more protein and it needs to be spread throughout the day. You're talking about when you're over 65? Mm-hmm. Okay, gotcha. Well, even, you know, even there's been studies in younger people looking at, let's, you know, like, so four, taking four meals of 20 grams of protein each versus two meals of 40 grams of protein each.

And the four of the 20 grams of protein each was better at stimulating muscle protein synthesis and young, healthy, like, trained men. Yeah. And again, that's also just because, and it's not like, okay, well, if you only do two, I mean, obviously you're going to take in more, but it does seem that more frequency is better. Now, most people just kind of aim for the day because at a certain point, like, you got to just like do something, right? It's like, how much am I getting this day? Like, that's the most important for most people. But I think like that, like, I'm now trying

to spread it out more where, like when I first wake up, it's, you know, that's when you're the most catabolic because you've been fasting all night. You need to replace that protein. And so like if people are doing a longer fast, they have to be doing resistance training. And if they're not resistance training, they're losing muscle. Right. And that's something that was sort of eye opening for me as well. Whereas like some of these people that are losing weight, now not like super obese people, like they have a lot of fat to lose.

Yeah. But like let's, you know, say just maybe a little bit overweight. If they're not resistance training and they're calorically restricting, right, they're eating fewer calories. Dieting. They're dieting. 30% of that weight loss can come from muscle. Muscle, yeah.

Yeah. Unless your resistance training, you can really, you can damper that a lot. So even if you weren't getting enough protein and you were calorie restricted, but you were resistance training, you're better. Way better off. Okay. So it's like not ideal, but still just the lifting the weights. Lifting the weight stimulates muscle protein synthesis.

Yeah. And those two together, of course, that's the secret sauce, right? And that's, but like muscle mass is so important. And I wasn't thinking about how important it was. Like for mortality, you know, basically you wanna have more of that muscle mass because it decreases your frailty risk, your risk of falls. I mean, there's so many things where it's like,

and you start to become like, atrophy happens at a lot, like a faster rate once you hit a certain age. It's harder to gain muscle. What, I mean. Yeah, what I've tried to do in, And we kind of did the math yesterday because you're in kilograms and, you know, I'm not smart enough to figure it out. But just a rule of thumb for me, it's always been a gram of protein for a pound of body weight.

So if I'm 170, I want to get 170 grams of protein in. And we did the math and it's like, what you were talking about, it's way low, the RDA is way low. But what the studies from the doctors you mentioned, it's more in line with the gram per pound. Right. Yeah. So not having, so like I think it was like 0.32. grams per pound is what the RDA is right now.

So a third of what I would do. And imagine like people that are athletes or, you know, exercising, maybe not even necessarily an athlete, but like a really, like they exercise a lot. Yeah, yeah. You're, you need more protein to like repair muscle. Like you, you know, that's- People eat way too many carbs, not nearly enough protein. And you said like the first, the first meal of the day is the key because you've been

catabolic, you said. Mm-hmm. So that's where a lot of people have oatmeal and toast. Yeah, it's like the biggest carb heavy meal of the morning when it should be protein. Protein is like the first thing that you should eat. And, you know, it's, I now, like, I've always liked eggs. So like eggs have always been my go-to for breakfast. But like now it's really like I feel like it's so important.

And again, like skipping breakfast has become this thing. And I'm partly responsible of that. Not because I told people to skip breakfast, but because talking about it. about intermittent fasting and time restricted eating where you're eating within a time window so that you're having a period of repair. Like you're, you know, like when you're sleeping, you know, things are repairing.

That's a repair process. And just like when you sleep, your brain shuts down, right? You're not like, you're not thinking about things. That's when your brain's repairing. If you were awake and thinking and active, the repair's not happening. That's part of why sleep is so important. Right.

Well, the same goes for digestion. Like if you're not, if that stuff is moving you're digesting and all that. Like repair isn't happening, right? That's not the repair state. You know there's some hardcore bodybuilders that will wake up at the middle of the night and eat. Wow.

To get the protein. Eat a sandwich or eat a drink of protein, drink like at two in the morning. What do you think that's due? Because it's always like to gain muscle, you have to just eat. Like eating is almost as hard as training sometimes. If you're saying I need to get some of those guys with 300 grams of protein. That is an effort. And to do it, they'll do like middle of the night stuff.

So what is that doing, do you think? So, okay, nuanced topic. I am not the expert. I have talked to the experts. I know you looked pretty strong yesterday. I've had two of them on my podcast. Bradshaw and filled, Stuart Phillips, highly respected. Bodybuilding community respects them.

Scientists respect them. Right. So from my understanding after talking to these, having these guys on my podcast and talking to them and just going over their data, like just interest, because I'm interested in my own. I'm like, I've got to do this. I've got to do this. It's my understanding that generally speaking, like, obviously the most important is the daily

protein, right? So it used to be like, oh, you work out, then you have to take the protein right then. And is that, like, required? No, but I do think that because the half-life of protein is like three to five hours, and if you're working out, you're using it. it makes sense to do it like right at like more frequently like right after the some guys lift and they say they like will drink a protein drink during because they say this is the best time to shuttle that protein into muscle yeah does that make any sense

this is well I mean if you're increasing like leucine transporter expression which is very possible that that that resistance training does that because the body adapts right and part of the way it adapts is by, you know, doing things that are going to give it more amino acids. So it would make sense that that, you know, could, I haven't looked at that specific thing. This is bro science. But, I mean, you know, yeah, some of the, so there's been meta-analysis that are, this is like big analyses of multiple studies looking at this whole protein timing thing, right? And the, you know, take home on that was, no, the timing's not as important as we thought

it was. Just get the protein for the day, right? caveat, though, caveat, right? Can you squeeze a little bit more drops out of the wet cloth if you are, you know, doing it right after? Probably. Probably just knowing that, you know, the half-life of the protein and knowing that you're more responsive also, like, if you're doing it more frequently.

So they've probably noticed it. They've probably noticed it affect their muscles, their muscle growth, by doing more frequent meals. And so that's why they do them. And as we talked about that placebo effect, we mentioned like the housekeepers study last night. I read it to you. But it might be the guy's thinking, this is helping. So then they're training maybe a little harder. You know, they're pushing a little harder. You push a little harder. Yeah. So that you think it's giving you a little edge because you're taking the protein in. So I'm just going to do a few more those reps where it's like you wouldn't have done otherwise. And those are the ones at the end. And so you're getting

bigger because you're motivated. Yeah. I mean, motivation, all that stuff. makes a big difference. And so, yeah, so the two things doing that are the protein and the mechanical simulation. And so if people are doing, I think going back to the like the skipping breakfast where it became like somehow easier for people to just skip breakfast and that's how they extended their fasting period, you know, for some reason. It's like, well, maybe you can just shift breakfast over a little bit. So still eat the same amount of meals, right?

You're still getting the protein. Because if you skip an entire meal, like you're skipping a lot of protein. Right. And that's where it's like, oh, that's a problem. And then if you're not resistant training on top of that, now there have been studies on time restricted eating, which is a type of intermittent fasting. If, at least in women, if they resistance train, they're not losing muscle. But, you know, the skipping the meal is, I think, the problem where, you know, it's just that became a thing where it's like, yeah, I only eat two meals a day.

Yeah. How are you getting enough protein with two meals a day? And are you saturating it to a point where it's like your muscle is only going to take up so much and then the rest you're just using as energy. Right. Right. So. Yeah.

How I do it and I don't know, you can tell me if this makes sense, I pretty much eat, I would say, almost every hour of the day. Not a lot, but I'm eating all the time, all the time, because I feel like I can tell if I'm going to go on a run and in my head, I'm thinking, I mean, no, I need to hydrate and I need to get fuel in and I want my cells to be full. Like before I do like an endurance race or a hunt, I'm pounding calories and fluids because I'm like, I want all my cells and in my head. I'm thinking my body is full of cells. I want them full and fueled. So I do that.

Then I go do the whatever I'm doing the training and then I'm just back to eating nonstop. What about your magnesium? Do you take that in the morning? You take it in the morning. I think at night, no, and I take some at night too. Because I think it helps sleeping, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, for some people. I take a lot of pills, like a lot of supplements.

Well, the reason I ask. My wife puts it together. Oh, that's nice. I do that for my husband too. You got to take care of the people you love, right? I know, I know. Usually she's saying, I need to take a day off and don't run so far. So she's like trying to screw me over normally.

Trying to make me weak is how I'm like, yeah, you're trying to bring me down, aren't you? She knows that's what motivates you. I'll show you on. I don't know. I think she actually just cares and I hate when people care about me. So I'm like trying to push them away. Trying to make me weak. So the magnesium is for endurance athletes. It's good that you take it, but it's like a problem because already like at baseline, most people in the U.S. are not getting enough magnesium. So the RDA for that is like 320 milligrams for women, 420 for men. Where'd they get magnesium back in the day? Like before there was a pill.

Leaky green. So magnesium is at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their green color. Okay. So plants, green plants are really high in magnesium. Nobody eats green plants. No. Nobody eats them.

Not in the U.S. No. Burger King. I mean, is there anything green on the menu at Burger King? I like green jello. It's gelatin. But yeah, so greens. Allmonds are high in it, nuts too.

But so that's the major dietary source of magnesium. Supplementing also becomes important, particularly for people that are physically active. Because so half the country, 45 to 50% of the U.S. population doesn't meet that requirement. Women in particular don't. But you lose magnesium in sweat and you lose it in urine. And so people that are sweating,

if they're physically active, using the sauna, endurance training, they're losing a lot of magnesium. And so athletes can require between 10 to 20% more than the RDA depending on their physical activity. And so if you're starting with someone, and why is that important? Because for performance, I mean, it's important for a lot of things, like including cancer, because all your enzymes that repair DNA damage, so that's the stuff that causes mutation. You probably think about it more like smoking causes it, UV radiation causes it,

but just normal life causes it, like metabolism causes, eating food. Like, you know, so. Living. But we have, yeah, living. We have enzymes that repair that damage. They need magnesium to function. So, again, one of those things where, oh, you're not getting magnesium for the, you know, 10, 20, 30 years, you're always not getting enough.

Where's the magnesium going to go? Is it going to go to these DNA repair enzymes to prevent cancer, which your body doesn't care about because that doesn't hit until, what, fifth, sixth, seventh decade of life? or is it going to go to making energy, which is what you need to survive now? Because magnesium's essential to make and to utilize, use it and to make it. ATP, it's the form of energy

that's made in mitochondria inside of our cells that we need to live. So it's one of those things where even you may not be getting enough for that as well. But on top of that, it's required to make heem, which is a component of hebobin, which transports oxygen from your lungs and takes it to your muscles when you're exercising.

So that's like for endurance. For endurance. And so I think, and again, I'm just, you know, knowing that half the country is not getting enough magnesium. Maybe endurance athletes are the ones that know about it. Maybe they're not. And maybe, and not only that, they're supposed to be getting 10 to 20% more than the RDA. Yeah, I haven't ever heard that.

No, it's, no one talks about it. Right. No one talks about these, these are micronutrients, right? These are essential vitamins and minerals we have to get from our diet. So magnesium is a mineral. But it's not like this isn't something. I mean, people always think of this stuff like they want to see, you know, that they're not getting scurvy or something on their gums, right?

Right. So, no, this is like stuff you can't see. Right? Now, with performance, you might notice the effect because your performance might change. Most people don't notice, you know, an elite athlete would notice 1% increase. Yeah. A regular person just going out. for a three mile run, they're not going to notice a small incremental benefit.

You know, I mean, you might feel better one day. I'm like, oh, I feel better. That felt good. But, yeah, it's really hard to notice that small percentage. But if you do and it's like you're putting all the, to me, I just keep hearing about all these little things you can do that make big differences. You know, magnesium is one. We've talked about a lot of different things, recessions training.

But if you're doing all that, holy cow. Right. You can change your life. You do everything. Right. You try to do everything that you can. And then the supplementing with it, like there's so people can supplement with magnesium. There's lots of forms of it.

There's electrolytes. I take the electrolyte, you know, which has magnesium in it. Electrolite drink element is what I take. Yeah. There's tons of them out there, right? Yeah, I think Mountain Ops actually has one too that I take. Yeah. But yeah, that's, I mean, magnesium, I know.

It's important. I wonder how about grizzly meat. Do you think that's good for you? You had grizzly meat? I did. It was definitely tasty. I mean, so that kind of brings us to the omega-3 world. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I would be interested to see. There's a big study you just did, right, or know about? Well, yeah, I'm, I've, so there's lots of omega-3 research going on.

I'm now an associate research associate at the fatty acid research institute, which is, it's a nonprofit, but they do a lot of fatty acid research mostly omega-3. Okay. So, yeah, I'm involved in a couple of studies there. But the founder of that, Dr. Bill Harris, he's amazing. I've had him on the podcast. He's really, he's been doing omega, I mean, he was like one of the pioneers in this research field. And he's developed something called the omega-3 index test, which is a more accurate long-term marker of omega-3.

So you measure omega-3 in red blood cells, which stay around for about 121 days. So it's like a long-term marker versus measuring it in your plasma phospholipids, which is like, what did you have for dinner a couple of days ago? Was there fishing it? Okay. So it's one of those things where it's like a little more reliable. Again, back to the tools that we're using to measure things. All that stuff matters, right?

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off your order. Hoit archery has been my bow hunting sponsor since 2005. And personally, I really don't care what bow you shoot, what brand it is. I just hope that you have the same level of confidence in your equipment as I have in mind. Because I know if I get one opportunity with my Hoyt, it's going to pay off. The Omega-3 Index, he's been, I mean, he's just published one phenomenal study after another using the Omega-3 Index and on large, large cohorts of people. and has found that a higher omega-3 index, so this would be like 8%, which is not what's in the U.S.

So the average omega-3 index in the U.S. is like less than 5%. 5% of the fatty acids being omega-3. Is this the same as just fish oil? Yes. So omega-3, yes. So eating fish or supplementing with fish oil, which is, you can get a lot of omega-3s from doing that. Right.

Versus that, you know, both are good, you know, because also there's other nutrients and fish as well, and there's protein. But yes, it is. So people, so we can get to that, which is like, how do you go from a 4%? Right. Omega-3 index to an 8%. Well, those studies have been done. And it takes about, on average, two grams of omega-3 a day supplementation to go from

4% to 8%. Now, that's two grams less than what's being prescribed. by doctors, physicians prescribe pharmaceutical omega-3. It's called either Vesipa or Leveza, and they prescribe it for high triglycerides. So my mom takes it. Like high blood pressure? I don't know if it's prescribed for high blood pressure, but it's definitely for high triglycerides.

And what's that, just in layman's terms? Like high triglycerides? Yeah. So that's when you're, that's like, you know, it's a glycerol backbone with three fatty acid, so that's how we store fat. And when that's like circulating in your body, it's bad. Okay. Like, it's a cardiovascular disease risk factor.

Oh, I see. Okay. Like blood pressure is, by the way. We should talk about the habit story. Okay. But anyways, the thing that's amazing with the Omega 3 Index is that people that have the 8% omega-3 index have a five-year increased life expectancy compared to people that have 4%. Five years.

Five years. Think about five years of being around your loved ones, doing amazing things, enjoying life. Five years. And there's studies showing that they're like, you're much. less likely to get Alzheimer's disease if you have a high omega-3 index. So the quality of life is better as well. And I was telling you this yesterday and I like talking about it because it blows my mind every time.

Yeah. The smoke, so they took this cohort of people and they were smokers in there. There were smokers and there's non-smokers and they looked at their omega-3 index and they found that the smokers that had a high omega-3 index of 8%. So these are smokers that are like, I need the fish oil, I gotta do, I'm smoking. They had the same life expectancy as the non-smokers with the low omega-3 index. That is insane. I know.

You could be somebody who's running every day but not getting enough fish oil and somebody who's, you know, smoking a pack of Marlboros and taking fish oil and you're going to live the same amount roughly. I mean, of course, there's probably other things that play as well, but I think the omega-3s are so important. I think that they are hugely important for the brain, for inflammation, and then for muscle. And this was like a big thing too because it's a really sort of growing field. There's a few people doing this research.

One of them is to talk to Chris McClory. I think I told you about him. And he's kind of a junior researcher. So he's kind of just started his lab. He trained with Stu Phillips. I had him on the podcast like a month ago or so. And he was blowing my mind with some of his data. Look, there's got to be more larger studies done.

This stuff has to be replicated. Other people have replicated his work as well. well, but like, you know, there's, you always need more evidence with that caveat. Omega-3s are protecting against disuse atrophy. So, so, you know, I mean, there's, he's now done a few studies, him and others, where high dose omega-3, so that we're talking four to five grams a day. Like, what's a pill when you take a supplement and you take a pill? How much is that?

It depends on the supplement. So a good one, you're going to get like 500 milligrams of, you know, let's say, 350 of its DHA and then 150 of its, you know, EPA, which are the two marine forms. ALA is the plant form really not. Doesn't do as much. We're talking about the marine forms. Right. So I like, there's a really good fish oil brand called it's metagenics and they make something

called omogenics and it's a liquid. And you do like one teaspoon of that and that already, gets you like above two grams. So doing like two teaspoons, like one in the morning, one in the evening. I mean, then you're getting... Is that that that eight percentage you're talking about or is that above that even? Oh, if you do... If you do...

If you're doing more like four grams, that would be above that. Okay. But yeah, two grams would get you. So why... Like, I personally do take like experimentally high doses of omega-3, but not so much higher than, again, people are being prescribed four grams. Because with me, I'm like, if a little's good, a lot's better. on everything. So be careful when you say, I'll take that whole bottle at one time. Yeah,

what's the one thing, though, that I like, you know, I can't find evidence that too much omega-3 is really, now, I guess some people, it might affect arrhythmia, but it decreases stroke risk. So in people with cardiovascular risk factors, there's like some little sort of growing evidence. We don't quite understand it. More needs to be done that they, you know, they're getting, some people do get arrhythmia, but again, the stroke risk is lowered from omega-3 and that's like undeniable. So that's the whole problem with arrhythmia as it increases stroke risk. So you're kind of like, well, you know, it's one of those things we don't understand. Right. But it should be investigated more. Yeah, yeah, I got that part. Researchers don't understand.

I mean, it's not that I don't understand. It's that science hasn't figured it out yet. Right. I mean, I guess that that's what I should say. Yeah. So with the omega-3 and the disuse atrophy, it's so, it's really interesting because you were asking about, like, you know, you were talking about like increasing the amino acids in the muscle like transport or something. And the omega-3s are sensitizing muscle to amino acids. In other words, they're taking amino acids and making a smaller protein dose seem bigger

to muscles, which... Does it seem like this could be... I mean, it seems so powerful. Is this like the one... If you're gonna do one thing, should this be it? Yes. It seems crazy how powerful this is. Yes, it is.

This is why I joined that research institute as a... Because I believe in it so much, I think it is... I think Omega-3 has the pharmacological profile, like, it has the pharmacological potential, like, to act like drugs. but it's the safety profile of a nutrient. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

Yeah. So it's like I think, you know, people are so interested in aging drugs and metformin and I'm like, this, this omega-3 stuff. I don't know. Five-year increased life expectancy. It's preventing muscle disuse atrophy and it's sensitizing. Now that might not matter so much for the, your bros you were talking about that are taken in 300 grams.

They're like they're getting their protein. But it might matter when they're injured. Right. They're getting a surgery. And they can't live. Yeah, train. They can't train because that's where omega-3 shines because the disuse atrophy sets in particularly when you're older, right?

Because then you like, you know, you're, it's so much more hard on the body. Like you're not able to recover like a young person can. Like a young person can bounce back. But the older people don't. And then not only that, omega-3 in the studies that were done, I should caveat this, the studies have been done in young people. They're going to be repeated in old people, but because they have to be sure, like, it's not ethical because knowing how, you know, just being bedridden for, you know, a period

of time is so devastating for an older person. It's hard to like do those studies. So you have to like really know that this might protect them before you do it. So most of the stuff's done in young people. Now there's other studies that have been done with like omega-3s in combination with exercise and older people and it does seem to improve muscle mass. strength, but of course in combination with exercise. Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, I think it's really hugely important because there's a lot of people that don't take in a lot of protein we're just talking about. And then having that omega-3, now again, this is emerging data, but I think that it'll continue to emerge where it's sensitizing the muscle to amino acids and it's doing it because your muscle cells, they're made of omega-3. and it's changing probably the way these omega-3s are transported it, it's changing a lot of things inside of it. So I'm really excited about that data because it's like, for one,

you can be more strategic about like, oh, I'm going to get a surgery. Now, if you're already taking two grams of omega-3 a day, it's built up in yourselves. By the way, that's another thing that was important that was learned in the studies. If you take someone that's naive and not taking omega-3 and they're low on it, It takes four weeks for it to build up in the muscle tissue. Four weeks. And so if you find a study that was done that didn't do the protocol.

Yeah. If you find a study that was done that didn't do the protocol, they did. Usually the way they do these studies is they like put a cast on someone. They immobilize them for a period of like two weeks or something. Atrophy. Right. They'll do the, they give them the omega three at the same time they do that. It's not the way to do it.

You have to preload them. They need it to get in their muscle. That's the whole way it works. It's not, it's not. That's good to know for people with surgery coming out. Right. So it's kind of like if you're, you know, that disuse atrophy. So it cut it by like half disuse atrophy.

That was a lot. That's incredible. Yeah, it's a, I mean, if you looked at like, so for me, what, how could I, if you look at my routine, now you saw part of it, you know, the work for and shoot and you know kind of what I eat, right? Am I on the right path or am I like, because people, when I had my full time job for sure, and let's talk about sleep too because it's like people like me who work have goals they want to achieve like being a bow hunter in the mounds that takes training that takes time and we have a family so i would like scale back to get everything i needed to get done i couldn't do it without sacrificing sleep that's the only thing that i could mess around with was sleep everything else was like no i had to get my miles in i had to see the family had to be at work all day so i'm like well i'm not going to get eight hours of sleep, if I can get five, I got three more hours to put in work. And now tell me about sleep and just that in general routine because I feel, to be honest, pretty dang good for being old as hell.

I feel like the best I've ever felt at 55. You look pretty dang good too. Wow. Thank you. Yeah. Give me your thoughts on that. Well, here, there's lots of, there's lots of little nuance. Yeah.

Yeah. So I want to hear it. I mean, I would say first and foremost, sleep is hugely important for health. We know that. You obviously know that. Yes. Right. And it's important for brain function, immune function, like everything, right? But there's also, you know, a genetic factor as well. So there are people that it's called a chronotype where, you know, there's the night owls, there's the people that don't sleep. They only sleep five hours a day and they feel great every day when they wake up. They don't feel tired. There's individual variation in how much sleep everyone needs.

Now, there's been a whole team of scientists that have come together and they've said, okay, human adults need about seven hours of sleep a day for optimal, you know, everything. And so they say eight hours because the reason they say eight is because an hour, like there's like the wake-ups, the, you know, so basically all that. And so you shave off an hour. But it's really, it's not the eight, it's the seven hours. That's the key, right? So, and again, that's the average. But there are people that don't fall in that average.

You know, this isn't everyone. So that's first and foremost important to keep in mind, right? There is individual variation. Then on, I think the next layer to that, which is, I think you said, and it's really important, you said, I got to get my miles in. Like that was first. Yeah. I got to get my miles in.

Exercise. And that's as much mental as physical for me. It's just like, I got to know I'm putting in the work. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the exercise and it's the thing, like, I think that if you were going to, if there was one or the other, you had to make a decision, what am I going to pull from? What am I going to cut back on? It's going to be the sleep because there's, I mean, I don't know that there's anything that's more powerful than exercise for improving, you know, health, for improving muscle health, bone health, you know, know, your immune health, brain health, and also mood, you know, how you feel. Yeah. Which then again, if you feel good, you're motivated.

If you're motivated, you do stuff. Like, you're going to eat better. You're going to, like, all that stuff, right? So there have been, there have been, like, a big study that was done that looked at sleep duration and all cause mortality. Again, cardiovascular does, mortality plays a big role in that as well. But people that slept, it was like eight hours, seven, eight hours a day. They had the lowest all-cause mortality compared to people that were getting, you know, five hours of sleep.

Something like that. I don't remember the exact numbers, but give or take. Except when they looked at the people in that group that were getting the, let's just call it five hours, less sleep, they were physically active. Those people had the same mortality as the people that were just getting, you know. The eight hours. The eight hours, yeah. And this was like even people that were exercising getting eight hours. So this isn't like, you know what I mean?

If you want to optimize everything. So at the end of the day, exercise seems to help correct some of the bad effects of sleep loss. And I've measured this in myself and there's studies on it with glucose regulation because sleep is really important for glucose regulation and sensitivity. And when I was a new mother, I was getting no sleep. And I was measuring my glucose with the continuous glucose monitor, I was getting all that data. And it was black and white, night and day difference.

I mean, it was so obvious and so repeatable that, you know, if I went and I was doing, I was, because there's times when I was a new mother when I was like, I can't, I even exercise. Like I couldn't like, I just, it was like. You had no energy. You're exhausted. I had no energy. And then it was, yeah.

And then it was like, I had to be with my son and feeding. And like it was just that was it. Yeah, that takes all your focus. You'll do anything. Like you sacrifice your health. You give your health to your child. It's like you're suck it away for me, you know, right? Like that's what you do.

Literally. Yeah. Literally. But then I had that data and that was like even if I'm like just dog tired. Like there's an I, if I exercise, I'm back to me. Yeah. And not pre-diabetic crazy like, you know, Ronda. And you know what's crazy is people like, they'll

say I'm not going to exercise because I didn't sleep well. That's the blast what they should do first. Yes, that's the opposite what you should do. Absolute opposite. In fact, the more tired you are, the more you should work out. In fact, when you're not tired, that's when you should not work out. It's like, it's actually the opposite. Yes. And then it gets you back to baseline. Baseline. Yeah. Or even above. See, that's, you know. Yeah, because, yeah, if you're above because of all the other benefits, you know, all the other different things you're doing for your, for your body, for your mind. So yeah, I mean, just in general, if you're just talking about sleep and performance, you're back to baseline, but you've gained so much in other areas. So,

yeah. So if there's one thing that you should do when you're tired, train. Do every, yeah, exactly, nothing else. Like, train. Like, do that. Like, that's the thing. And that's what I learned from, from my data. And I did it. You know, I was, I did my, my, I was, I was, It's on the bike and it was hard, but like, but then you feel great after, right? So then it's like, oh, I was so tired and I felt like crap. And now I don't. Now I don't. What do you know?

Do you know how, I mean, there's a few things like social media is so crazy, but people are so freaking protective of a couple weird things. Music is crazy is one of them. You put up some music. People get like, I hate that. That's not real country. Anyways, like music is people are very passionate about them fired up. But sleep, they're so protective over their sleep.

So if you're saying like I didn't get, I got this much sleep and I'm fine, they will say why you're an idiot, why, you know, you need to get more sleep. You're like people. Ask them if they've had their chronotype measured. People are so protective over laying in bed. No, sleep is important. Like, sleep is important. Like it is the repair time.

People get crazy about it. They're like, because they love to sleep. But I also think people like to argue in sound. smart. Yeah, that's true. So, I mean, you know, but no, sleep is definitely important. But there's so many other things. Like, again, it's like, everything's nuanced. There's always like, we're just learning things, right? You know, sleep is important, but guess what? Oh my gosh, exercise, like all that. It's your, you're increasing repair process. That's what you're doing. And omega-3s are important, you know. Yeah, there's nuance to everything. In my weird, dumb,

redneck mind, it'd always be like, I'm putting in these miles, I'm sacrificing, this is what's setting me apart. Nobody has a great story about how much sleep they got. You know what I mean? But they have stories about, hey, I trained my ass off and I did this 200 mile run because I outworked what I was doing before and I was capable of this. Yeah, how much sleep I got during that? Nobody gives a fuck about. So it's like, what are we, you know, I'm trying to like do cool, you know, amazing shit and sleep is like not that sexy. Do you sleep like on a like a hundred mile run that you, Like, how do you do that? No, on those, no, if you're trying to like, no, 100 mile run, that's usually just a day.

So you'll just push through, you know, I mean, even little kids, let's stay up all night. They'll stay up all night, right? Yeah. It's that second night. So, like, on a 200 mile run, you're into your second night. Okay. And that's where, that's where, like, Courtney, I don't know if you know her, Courtney DeWalter, that's where she kind of made famous the, she was seen hallucinating.

So she, one of her famous ones, she had on a T-shirt, she saw a leopard in a hammock. That's the second night. The second night is when this crazy stuff starts happening with your brain. So like we both did, she ended up winning it as the first time, you know, she kind of came on the scene. Joe Rogan was following me as the Moab 240, so it's 240 miles. It took me 78 hours. So we're getting into three nights. I slept for, I would say, two hours in those three days, you know, because you just have to, the clock never stops.

But that's the first night you're fine. You're just tired, you know, whatever. You're just, you're active, so you're not even that tired. You're just pushing. But the second night is where people really, that makes a difference between, are you going to win? Can you still perform? Are you, is your body going to break somehow, either mentally or physically? But that's where it gets into the hard one.

the second night of the two. Right. That's incredible. I don't know what's happening, but all I know is I've seen people in these races and I've seen, you know, there's another type of race that's called a backyard ultra. It's like the last man standing. So what they do is four miles an hour and then however long that takes you, you can rest if you get done in under an hour. But at the hour on the, you know, exactly on the hour, you have to be at the starting line

again and then you run four more miles and then you go do that as long as you can and so she won that she one time she ran 283 miles four miles at a time every hour and to do that you know they might sleep and she again made this famous but it's like if you sleep for a minute it's like a control delete reset because i've been so exhausted i remember this time too i was with my brother, I slept. It felt like I slept forever. And I was like, I woke up and I'm like, how long was I sleep? And he's like, a minute.

And I felt fine. You reset. You can't get away with that forever. But I've seen people do incredible things on one, two, five minutes of sleep. That's crazy. What would be happening? Do you know? You know, probably the stress hormones and stuff.

I mean, also like, because depending on the time of day, like, this is all on a clock, like your hormone production, neurotransmitter production. And all these people doing this are not normal. Like, to quote, normal people. But I don't, I've been fascinated about that control, delete, reset. Like, what the fuck is happening? I don't know. I can't tell you.

That's the first time I've even heard that. Because she woke up and felt like she got eight hours of sleep. You, um, oh, that's crazy. Yeah. That's, um, I could speculate, but I have, I have no idea. In fact, I can't, like, my speculation is even just terrible, so I won't even do it. Yeah, but you're, I mean, this is, you know, your speculation is probably more accurate than most, but. Who knows?

You know, I mean, like, again, I was saying, like, if you get that, like, because everything is on, like, a clock, a circadian clock, like, you know, just like we have our schedules that we do, right? You run at this time. Yeah. Like, all, you have your business call. You, you know, like, we have schedules. Like, our body has a schedule for everything. And, you know, so like if you're all of a sudden making that cortisol and having that cortisol awakening response that usually you have like first thing in the morning.

Right. It's happening even though you've gotten, you know, whatever. A minute. A minute of sleep. Or, you know, then it's like, okay, there's the awakening response, you know. But the interesting thing about this, too, is performance related. And I've kind of recently been both cognitive and, you know, physical, sort of diving into this and trying to apply it to my life.

And in fact, we went for a run. We did the run hike. That was like four or five. Yeah. Something like that. I tried to do it the hottest part of the day. So around four. It was around four.

Yeah. So it's interesting because between, so like 1.30 in the afternoon to about five in the afternoon. So like is 1.30 considered late afternoon? I don't even know. Yeah. Probably not late yet. Mid afternoon. Yeah.

Maybe three is late. Late. Yeah. Yeah, so at 130, it's like muscle coordination's at its peak. So your muscle like 2.30, you start to have, you know, it's coordination. Oh, and then like something else with speed and endurance, cardiovascular endurance and muscle strength or like strongest at like 4, 5 p.m. 5 p.m. again, this is all on a clock thing. So it's like, you know, training at that time kind of makes sense from a performance aspect if you're looking.

you know, for a little... Should be at your best. Yeah, should be at your best. But also cognitive stuff. So like, no, we're talking and it's 10, 30, you know, in the morning. I wonder I feel dumb. No, actually. Well, it depends on what makes you feel smart.

So we, most, again, on average, this is like not everyone. There's the night owls and you might be an outlier two where you fall into a different category where, you know, you just don't fit the average. So that's important, right? But on average, most people are, they're better at problem solving. They're better at learning things. So if you need to learn things at what time? At around not 10 o'clock in the morning.

So 10 is like the peak. So if like you're like, I want to hear what Rhonda's saying. Yeah. Like right now you're like, you're actually better at learning that. Perfect. So problem solving, learning, you know, that sort of cognitive process is really good at 10 in the morning. But creativity, if you're wanting more free flow, creativity, that's better late afternoon early evening.

So that's like, and it's funny because I'm trying to organize my day more. And, you know, it always gets me. People always want to have Zoom calls first thing in the morning. I'm like, that's my peak time. I don't want to like do this. Yeah, sucking up my peak performance time. And like the stuff I do, I need to problem solve. I need to figure things out.

I need to like retain information. And so like that's the time I need. Whereas like, okay, let's have a meeting later in the day. Like, you know, for me, it's like I'm already, like, I did what I needed. So, or for like you want to be more creative. And it's also interesting that all the creatives, like, you know, like you don't ever go to a comedy show with your coffee in the morning. It's always late.

It's always late. Yeah. And it's like, well, you say they write their, is it they call it? They write them probably late. But also, like, they improv, like hell when they're up on stage. It's like a dialogue with the audience. That's like 11 at night. Right.

It's always late. That's like the creative. And you always hear about like the artist. Like Salvador Dali used to like put a spoon on his nose. I read this. I mean, you never know. Right. He would put a spoon on his nose.

And the reason when he would fall asleep with it and then it would wake him up when it would fall. And that was when he would like paint. That's awesome. Where it's like that creative moment. I was going to ask you too because I was just thinking about these races. It's like the worst time of a race is. is two in the morning. It's like, you know, dark ass, freaking middle of the night.

But once that sun starts to pop or like, first it gets a little gray, then the sun's, you are energized. Oh, really? That's the cortisol awakening response. If you're just, if you can make it till sunrise, because a lot of people, they struggle all night. But once that sun hits, oh, man.

So two things, it's interesting. One, so the sun, so bright light exposure is what activates the cortisol awakening response. talks about this non-stop. Right. And so that is what's going to give you energy. Like the cortisol, you know, everyone's like cortisol bad, cortisol bad. Yes, chronic cortisol is bad.

But the cortisol awakening response is something that's a, it's a part of our biological clock. And sunlight exposure is what really activates it. And so if you're getting that first thing in the morning, you're going to feel energized. The more you're out and the brighter the sun. Even if you run for two days, that sun comes out. I mean, I don't know, but that's incredible. But the other thing you said that's interesting is 2 a.m. is the hardest. And why that's interesting is because that is when your body temperature is at its lowest.

And I don't like, I know there's some, this isn't like hard science, it's more speculation. So there's like, there's researchers out there trying to figure out why muscle performance and everything, you know, cardiovascular performance endurance is better, you know, at the 5 o'clock, like time of day. And it's because your core body temperature is at its highest. And so there's some theories that it affects, you know, muscle performance and it's affecting endurance. It's helping. And that being, you know, being at its coldest has the opposite effect. I don't know.

I mean, it kind of was just interesting that you said that 2 a.m. It's 100% true. And then also you realize and hunters know this too, but it's coldest right before the sun comes up. So maybe it's because it's been dark the long. right before the sun comes up. So just in general, temperature is dropping. But you are, you are noticeably colder, like, say, an hour before sunrise than you had been in like the two in the morning. But that stretch right there is like miserable. And if you can make it through that,

it feels like a complete, like everything changes. Like you just flipped a switch. Sun's up. Now you're like, fuck, I'm back. I'm back. Well, that's what every day is supposed to be like. You're supposed to go outside first thing in the morning. Right. And it's like, I'm back. This is the start of my clock. I mean, that's what it does. It resets the clock.

Yeah. You know, it's important for. I think people miss that a lot. So either they're at work already or they're not up yet or it's like. People don't go outside. But if you're in the mountains and that sun pops, you're like, I'm back, bitches. Yeah. The difference between like when you're like, like let's say camping or, you know, you're somewhere

you're out and and you're going, it's dark and you're probably get sleepier also. like you're not staying up all night as much. It's like you do get sleepier earlier. You don't have like artificial light. There's nothing to do. You go to bed. No phones. Yeah.

Yeah. And then and then you wake up in the morning when the sun's out and you feel great. It's meant to be. It is. But it's one of those things where like what, you know, people want like how can you, people ask like how can I improve my sleep, right? Like how like I, my sleep is bad. Like what can I do?

And I think one of the most important things is early bright light exposure. And from a circadian perspective, for multiple reasons, one is what we talked about, like, it's resetting your clock so that your clock knows when it's time to start to, you know, when it's time to start making melatonin, which is a hormone that helps you get sleepy. Your body's like, okay, this is sleep time, it's on a clock. If you don't have that anchor, then it's all wonky. Right. You know, and then you put the bright lights on at night, the blue lights, which then tell your brain,

no, it's still daytime. I mean, that just adds to it, right? But like the bright light also is, again, it's the energy, the cortisol awakening response. You make serotonin also from the bright light exposure and then you get motivated because you feel good. So you're motivated, right? And then like you're saying, you're outside, you got through that hard part, that 2 a.m. or whatever where you're like, this is like so hard.

This is like so hard. This sun comes out and then all of a sudden you're making serotonin. You feel better so you're motivated. The motivation's like, I can do this, right? Like so I mean this is I don't know if that's what's happening but I don't know but the the bright light does increase the serotonin. I know the very best endurance racers can they whether it's intentional or there's this mentally more disciplined but they don't slow down at that midnight to four in the morning they can everybody else is getting colder you're tired obviously you're slowing down the best according to be in there the best the best the best ever. can push just like it's middle of the day. And that is so hard to do. And it's amazing.

But that's why we're all different. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and speaking to that, how the hell did you get to be so smart? Like, were you always like in school? What does, how do you get to be Dr. Ronda Patrick? Tell me about that journey. Well, I have sort of like, I started a bug club when I was in second grade.

Second, okay. You know, so I've always sort of been interested in science, you know, where... Wait, a bug club? Yeah. Or book? Bug, bug, bug. A bug. A bug.

Okay. So we would go around and, like, collect bugs and, like, study them. Like, starting out with, like, glue. It was terrible, but we, like, glue around the bug, so we trap it, you know, so it, like, couldn't move and get a magnifying glass. Rough for the bugs, but kind of fun for you guys. Hey, it's no different than a... Did you ever do, like, the magnifying glass and just burn... I didn't burn them, but I did look at them.

Because you could get that sun and like, I don't know why that was fun. I don't have a Y chromosome. That's probably the difference. Yeah, that's a boy thing. But, yeah, so, you know, I was, you know, it's just kind of one of those funny things where I think in college, I thought I was going to be a marine biologist. I was a surfer in college. I taught surfing when I was in college. But what was high school?

Like, so if you were bug club. High school, I was a track, track. Oh, yeah. I got under running and a little bit into grunge music and like, you know, Nirvana. Smashing Pumpkins, Rage Against the Machine, Pearl Jam. Yeah. And like, still love all that, you know. Oh, that's so good.

Kurt Cobain. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I, when I started to really get into like David Attenborough documentaries from nature documentaries, that was high school. And then it was like, oh, I want to go out and like, you know, go on a boat. like study like the ocean. It's like endless. It's like there's like, you know, I just got really interested in the ocean. But as I started to like, so I went to UCSD, as they started to like take all these science classes, like it was like far removed from like you're like doing lab work.

You're in the lab. And then and then I just wanted the challenge. It was like, I was like, oh, this is hard. So I just kind of kept, I majored in chemistry, which is like one of the hardest, you know. Terrible. A bunch of. I've got a D. I think. I was. I was. I was. I don't know, it was, I barely, like, it was hard. Yeah. Well, to say, I was taking, you know, like physical chemistry was hard. I had to take, like, three chemistry classes and, like, three calculus classes to get into, like, the physical chemistry. And then it was like, it was just like, I don't even understand this stuff.

So at that point, like, and I had done interning in chemistry labs, and I was like, I don't want to do this. Right. Yeah. These people are nerds. And what really got me into biology and aging was when I was when I was, like, I don't want to do this. I graduated from college and I knew I wanted to go to grad school but I was like, I don't want to be a chemist anymore. This is like boring. Like I just, it's not fun.

I like life and like I want to apply it to myself kind of, you know, it was just like I was like synthesizing peptides and stuff. And I just felt like I wasn't doing anything and interesting to me. Yeah. So I started working at the Salk Institute and that I worked in an aging lab where we were looking at these little nematode worms. and they have, I mean, I don't know how many genes they have, but they have very simple, like there's genes that are similar to humans. It's called homologous. And so like they have an insulin like receptor, a gene that's like an insulin like receptor,

IGF1, like all this stuff, right? And they're really good for manipulating genetics to go, oh, look, this is what happens when you manipulate genetics. Humans have genes like this, like maybe we could somehow learn something about humans, right? And so I was doing these experiments. where I was taking these worms, and they live on average about two weeks, like 15 days. And I would change like one gene where it's like, okay, we're going to lower their insulin signaling pathway. So their insulin and IGF1, like that whole, it's very tied to insulin.

You knock it down. And these worms went from living 15 days to 30 days. And not only that, and I'm looking at this with my own eyes. I'm doing it. You know, it's like not only were they living 30 days. when they were like 20 days old, which they should have been long dead, they were moving around like a young worm. They were like, because they, you can, the way, you put them on a little petri dish with like E. coli. There's agar on an E. coli bacteria.

They eat bacteria. And they just kind of move around. You see them. And as they start to age, they get slower. And they like eventually just don't move much. And they're kind of just feeding. But these worms were like, bam. You know, it was like they were young.

And at that moment, I was like, we have insolored. signaling pathway. Like this is incredible. Right. So that was kind of the start where I was like, I want to study. And then it kind of morphed into like things that are like I could apply like nutrition wise. Like, you know, like what can we do to change the way we age with our diet and our lifestyle? And so that's kind of how it was just like one of those things were marine biology. So more into then you like quality of life performance type things. That's what you're, that's what you enjoy most now? I really am super interested in still like aging.

And when I say it's aging and like improving the way we age. Like anti-age? So yes, performance. And, you know, increasing, you know, our health span. So decreasing the risk of getting cancer, cardiovascular disease, Parkinson's disease dementia, like not just living longer and not even necessarily having to live longer, but not living life disabled. Right.

Right. like enjoying life, like being young and performance, like if you are, yeah, there's all, there are trade, like you can do stuff that'll give you performance enhancements that's not good for you, right? Like, we can agree on that. Of course. But you can do things that are going to give you performance enhancements that are good for you.

And those things, if you're going to get, if you're going to be, if you're being physically active and you're, that's going to affect the way you age for sure. It's going to change the trajectory of your disease risk pattern. What? What do you think? Because when I like, and people say this all the time, but back in the day, say 55 years old, which is what I am, 55 seemed old as hell. You'd see a 55 year old guy and he looked old. And now you see Joe's three months older than me. So he's, God, he's going to be 56 like in two days. But now you see people in their 50s and they're like, what? This guy's a freaking beast or this woman is, you know, running ultras and. just crushing it, how have we fought off the aging process? I mean, what's been the biggest change do you think? Well, I think first and foremost knowledge. Like, we know a lot more now, right?

I mean, so, like, we know how important protein is. We know how important some of these vitamins and minerals and getting them, and we know how important it is to exercise and not smoke. Not smoke. And, you know, there's a lot of things that we know, I think, from just access to information that has helped because, you know, you know, when you have the information, then you can make the improvement, right? It's like not having the information.

Yeah, it's tough to know what to do. Yeah. You know, but on the other hand, it's like, well, obviously we also, we aren't dying from infectious diseases like we were, antibiotics. I mean, there was a time when it was like, you know, something could be a death sentence, you know, that is just minor to us now. Yeah, I mean, women died all the time in childbirth. Yeah.

Yeah. That's hardly ever happens now. Right. No. I mean, I know I think about that all the time where it's like, that like being like getting pregnant was one of those things which probably like so exciting but it was like scary it's like this is a yeah could die cost like I could die and like yeah I mean that's so advances in medicine you know obviously you know make a difference as well right but

but then on the other hand we do have a lot of we have an obesity epidemic you know and there's the over I don't want to say over nutrition because it's a little misleading because like People that are obese are some of the most efficient and important, like vitamins and minerals and fatty acids, you know, because they're, yes, they're getting a lot of calories, but they're getting empty calories. They're getting processed foods and, you know. Well, that, you know, I played that clip. I was asking if you knew that woman from Australia, I think she is. But, like, there was a clip. It was talking about Putin and Russia, which obviously we're not going to, we don't want to be Russia.

But his point was he outlaws, GMO. Like it's all got to be organic or you're not growing it. And then he talks about the Western world, us, and that how we're overfed, lazy, overmedicated. And it's like saying that we're weaker than the Russians. You know what I mean? So what's your thoughts on like GMO and a healthy diet? And that, I don't know, I mean, you mentioned obesity.

I remember taking my boys to the movie. and we're standing in the line looking around and they're young kids and it's like this is probably shitty parenting but I'd look around and I'd be like I said you guys see take a look they looked around and I said this is average we don't want to be average average isn't good enough because if you look at the average quote American doesn't look great the average Americans overweight yeah um and you know like so I think there's a lot I think there's a lot of new data that have come out now and In fact, I'm about to cover this in a Q&A on Friday, where the things that are in all of our packaged foods and processed foods, you know, like that, so you're talking about GMOs.

It's a little different, but it's still, I think, very relevant because, you know, people are eating a lot of easy food, right? It's like you... Yeah. And even something that you think is like a whole food, it's like, oh, like maybe whole foods made it and it's, you know, there's stuff in there. You know, we've got the gum. and there's stuff that you can't pronounce, you know?

And then there's the red number 40 and the yellow. And that stuff is banned in Europe. And there's so much data now showing that it like exacerbates ADHD and may even play a role in causing or, you know, especially with unlocking a genetic potential there with kids. And so like some kids will eat like this, all the candies that are like brightly colored with all this junk. Yeah.

And it's just horrible for them on top of the sugar that's in it. but we're talking about the artificial color. So I think there's a lot of stuff that we haven't understood. And, you know, everything takes so long eventually. You know, it's one of those things where then data catches up. And so now we're learning, oh, the things that are like part of the processing process that make it more stable, you know, we have the nitrites. And the nitrites are now linked to colon cancer.

And, you know, they're considered a carcinogen. And it's like, well, do you have to put a nitrite in your lunch meat? Can you not do that? You can not do that, right? Right. So there's salt and other, I mean, like, there's other ways of doing it. So I do think there's, you know, and then there's the glyphosate, right? And that, again, is there can be fearmongering, but I think there's now data coming out where it's like,

oh, they're just dumping this stuff on like oats, you know? and then you're just getting tons and tons of this glyphosate from oats because they're wanting to mass produce it. And, you know, it's- So why would they be putting that on oats? It just helps production. Oh, because they're giving, they're basically, they're genetically engineering the oats to be resistance to the pesticides that they're putting on so that that kills off all the insects and stuff so they can grow more.

Yeah. And so there are tons of glyphosate, which is a pesticide, like it's roundup, right? Yeah. in oats because the oats have been GMOed in a way. So I don't know that it's the GMO, like the fact that you're, like you can, like you can put, you can make, you can make something GMO like GMO in a healthy way. Like you can, you know, make, let's say a tomato make more lycopene, which is very beneficial. Like, so I don't know that it's the GMO exactly that's bad from the, oh, it's so much is that they gave it a gene that

them makes it, they can dump tons of pesticide on it. Oh, I see. And the pesticide, you're getting so, like, you couldn't, like, if they didn't have those genes, like the pesticide, at the concentrations they use, because it's like, oh, now we can really wipe out all the pests, right? All the insects and really grow. At a lower dose, if they didn't have those genes, the oats, like the oat wouldn't, you know, grow, right?

Like you wouldn't have any of it growing, the wheat, whatever, you know, whatever we're talking about. It's a money making thing. It's a money-making thing. For the people that originated this process, it's like we can make more and sell more or make more money. Yeah. And there's also, I guess, a demand thing too, right? Where it's like, I mean, I don't know how to solve the, you know, we got more, like the people and how to supply all the oats for them.

Like, I don't know what's in control there, but money's always in control. And money's always in the equation. It's always part of it, right? It's, I don't want to say it's the only thing. But, you know. So, I mean, the thing. The thing with the GMO is like it's always, for me, it's not like a black and white thing. Everyone's always, it's got to be, all GMOs are bad.

One or the other. But like I would love to, I mean, can we start making microalgae make more omega-3 so that we can just harvest that microalgae easy without like having to kill all the fish? And then maybe everything would be more natural like in a way. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's not black and white always. It's not black and white. Yeah. So the GMOs, I think, can be, you know, harmful.

especially in the context when you're making a gene that's like making them resistance to pesticides so you can dump more pesticides on the food on the crop. And then you're eating this bowl of oatmeal that you're giving to your child, right? And it's like, well, children are always more sensitive, right? Like they don't like the blood brain bear. We were talking about this a little bit. I think I was talking about this with Jen and John yesterday about blood brain bear development. It's like thought it happened, you know, like you're getting a more developed one around like,

I don't know, age four maybe. Yeah. But I mean, even if it's not, even if it is developed, like, you know, there's still, like, their endocrine system. Like, this is development. When you, like, start perturbing things in that sensitive period, like, like, there's more consequences, right? Than an adult. An adult, it's like, oh, maybe cancer risk is raised, like, whatever, how many years later. But, like, but you're developed already. You're developed. And I think, I remember I talked to Jen about this at Barra Camp, but they changed, the vaccine schedule or whatever changed in, like, the 90s for the kids. And that's what she's focused on too, because it's like it did from the studies that she was talking about and shared with me that changed in the 90s.

And since then, the vaccines have been, it's different than when we were kids. It is. And I, you know, as a parent, so, you know, I've always been, I call myself a sort of cautious vaxer. And I mean, I guess it's with respect to the doing the childhood vaccines, you know, like I do think that that. vaccines are important. I mean, like smallpox was eliminated and children do get infectious diseases and they can be devastating for a young child if they're spreading, you know, with that said, I think there's a more cautious way of giving, you know, children vaccines. And so what I decided to do was, well, what are all these new vaccines? What do I really need? Am I going to put my newborn baby? Some mothers, like, put their six-month-old infant or four-month-old infant in a daycare.

And at that point, like, you know, if that infant gets protesis, I mean, it could be deadly, you know. So I didn't have to make a really hard decision of giving my really, really young baby an important vaccine to prevent them from getting protesis and like potentially dying, right? Right. So I think there's a little individual variation there, right? Everyone's circumstance is different. So I didn't have, I, you know, didn't have to put my child in daycare. So, you know, I decided I was going to wait until the blood. brain barrier was more developed because, you know, immune things do cross over the brain

and, you know, there's immune responses that could affect brain development. Yeah. And again, everyone's different. It doesn't always happen. Yeah. But like, as a mother, you're like, well, if it could happen, right? Like, I don't want that risk. Like, yeah, you know, you're protective.

And so I did just the vaccines that were required for school in the state of California, and I did them in singles. And what does that mean? It means like you're not mixing, you're not doing the MMR, which already has three. You're not doing that combined with the TDAP, which also is three, and then the Barracella. What does that three mean? I don't know what that means. I mean, so there's so like, so for example, you've got the measles, the mumps, and

rebella in the MMR. So there's three different, I mean, it's antigens that you're, you know, you're basically, it's not just one virus that you're trying to protect against, right? But so I, you know, I did each one, it was like, okay, MMR, and then it was, you know, the D-TAP. And then it was, you know, Veracella, which is the chicken pox and then, you know, happy. So I didn't combine them. And it's weird because doctors, they sort of do, they say, oh, just come in and you'll get the MMR. They'll get this, all three of them, you know, all three different vaccines, not, I mean, so we're talking many different combinations of stuff to elicit an immune response, right?

Yeah. because they'd think it's easier on the parent to not have to go multiple times and they think it's easier on the child because they're not getting multiple shots. And I don't know, just three shots make more difference in one? I don't think so. Like I think any parent to, it's not, and it's not necessarily going to do it. I was cautious because it was like immune responses do, you know, they can be strong. Yeah.

And the more you're eliciting it, the stronger the response, right? And so. I think that's a good point, though, that you looked at it. objectively and you made a decision based on risk factors for your child and your situation. That's the biggest thing. You did also mention that California required this and that. That is the biggest thing I think people had with the COVID vaccine is like they weren't given the opportunity to make a choice.

When people are requiring it to do have a job to do different things, that's, you know, I like that you made that decision. You looked at it and say, oh, My child, my son isn't going to be in daycare at four months old. So I don't need to do that. That's where people struggled with it was required for certain things when I'm talking about COVID specifically. That was the hard part for being.

That was a big. The mandates, I was never for the mandates. It was one of the biggest mistakes I think that our government made was trying to mandate a medical intervention. Like that, that is something, I think, lessons learned. Like, if we look back, lessons learned, that's a big one. Like, mandating a medical intervention like that, like, that's choice. That is choice, right?

And a lot of people are angry. I made the choice, right? And if you don't want to, you know, I mean, some people decide to homeschool. Like, I know parents that, like, their children have, like, severe, like, anaphylactic allergies, and they had a bad reaction to one vaccine, and they're like, I'm not doing it. So they homeschooled. They have like a pod. But like going back to the COVID vaccine, since you brought it up.

My opinion like on the vaccine itself has evolved over time. It's changed. And I think the last time I spoke out about this publicly was during the Delta wave. So this was before Omicron. This was like August, September of 2021. So a few years ago. Yes. Things were very different.

And in my opinion at that time, you know, even though the Delta variant was still, the vaccines were not as robust at preventing transmission as like the original variant or even the beta variant, where it was like 95%. It was down to like 70, 60%, maybe 40. It was my personal experience also that I think contributed where it's the delta variant. Like I knew people that died from it, like they got from COVID, you know, whereas that's It's like my own personal experience was such that I was vaccinated, my family, like so much of my family, my friends. Like nobody had a bad reaction.

Right. And, you know, personal experience does mean a lot. Hey, doctors are humans. You know, yeah. So for me, it was kind of like, well, not only my personal experience, but like if you looked at all the preprint data. Like this is, we were in informational shortage at the time. Of course. You know, and I think the thing that I got wrong and looking back on it really was myocarditis.

risk. And it wasn't that necessarily I got it wrong. It was actually reading data. That was preprint data. So the data was saying that, you know, even young men had a higher risk of myocarditis inflammation of the heart from, from Sarge Cove 2 virus. And again, this was the Delta at the time versus the MRNA vaccines. And so it's like, well, you only can talk about the data. Now, if I had had personal experience, if I knew someone that had gotten myocarditis from the, you know, the vaccines, that probably would have changed my opinion, even reading that data. Do you think that the data you're reading was, I don't, doctored or manipulated a little bit? Were they, were the people sharing that data? Were they excluding?

I have no, I'll tell you this. It was coming so fast. Yeah. There's so many ways. There's we, data is, there's so many ways to like make mistakes, like, and not intentionally. Yeah. Like, it's so easy. It's so easy. And things were. so stressed at the time and it was evolving. And it was evolving. And, you know, like, Omicron came, you know, and this was like late 2020. This was like December 2021, right as it was like turning 2022. And Omicron came. That's kind of when everything changed for me and my perspective. Because for one, Omicron, you know, the virus itself had so many different mutations in the spike protein where, you know, the virus itself was more transmissible, but it also had mutations

that made it binds. I mean, it was not getting deep into the lungs. And so people weren't getting as sick. They weren't dying. Like the older people and stuff. They weren't dying. And, I mean, that's even true now, right? I mean, like, COVID's like, does even anyone talk about it?

I don't, like, you know, you know. We had this athlete here the other day who he said he was tested for COVID. He ran the 100. and he got third qualified for the world championship. So he's like, yeah, even COVID couldn't stop me. And I'm just like, COVID is fucking nothing. So right now, right now it's not. It's not, right?

And, you know, so the Omicron itself to me was the vaccine. It was because so many people got it that we now had immunity. And, you know, so fast forward, you know, 23. Now we've had, I've had time to read studies that are actually now not just preprints. Right. Okay. This is like peer review. And even now, there's still conflict.

Oh, of course. But what changed it for me, you know, is reading a few studies where it then became clear that, you know, like there was one study out of the UK where the myocarditis risk of younger people, so 40 years old and younger, was higher from vaccines versus SARS-COV-2. Right. And at that point, I was like, wow. Like this, you know, like it's, first of a first of a few, first of course, of all, the vaccines aren't stopping transmission.

Like once Omicron came, it was like transmission was, it was like, what's the point? It's not stopping transmission. You know, back when I talked about it, like there was, it was like a, you know, it's kind of like, again, the benefit risk where I was like, you know, it's still stopping transmission, like maybe, you know, it's minimal risk. And the information, like I didn't, I just didn't, the myocarditis thing, I just didn't, it wasn't there yet for me. You know what I mean?

I think people could- changed my mind. Yeah. I changed my mind. I respect that. Anybody could respect that. You know, I, well, that's kind of what you do when data comes out. You know, it's like it's, it's a, sometimes like things change. And I don't know that every scientist feels that way. I think some are still, we'll find data that says, no, no, it's higher from SARS-Cove 2, but then you go, well, is it Omicron? Because that's, you know, important, right? Are we talking about like a virus that is long gone that isn't doing the same virus anymore? because that's the other thing, right?

Where it's like that was different. Like they were different, you know, viruses. Yeah. So I do think, you know, like my whole family got vaccines. My parents have got it multiple. Like now I'm sort of like, I don't know about the boosters because now they changed it. It's like this bi-balant thing. And there was like there's at this point, I just feel like I don't know about the risk with multiple like doing these,

doing these MRNA shots and it's it's multiple times that when I talked about it was like we're going to get this one thing yeah you know and I think I've just it's it's just changed to a point where it's like okay now Omicron all the sub-variance of it whichever one we're on I don't even know yeah either it's not I'm like people go to I have like physician friends are like yeah no this isn't like they're not coming in the hospital anymore they're not like you know this isn't a thing like it was when it was a delta it's totally not overwhelming the system this isn't And, you know, I don't even know, maybe some immunocompromise people, I don't even know. I don't even know.

I don't know. Maybe they should just not be around people, you know. Yeah. But that's the other lesson learned, right? Shutdowns were worse than COVID. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's, you know, I think anybody could respect a change in an opinion or perspective given a changing data set. Well, and not only that, it's so hard to, I haven't talked about it because, because, and I'll get people just commenting on every post.

Yeah. Not even related, just every post. I can't trust you, I can't trust. And it's like, why are you following me for one? Like, if you don't trust me, like, I really try. You know, I do care and I'm not like, it wasn't like an inauthentic, like I just want to, I think, you know, there was certain. You were genuine about your stance. There was, and there were things that I felt people were misrepresenting at the time based off of what they were saying.

And one of, one of them, the myocarditis risk, I was, I mean, it was like that, that, that, That turned out to be true, in my opinion now. You know, so I think looking back, it's like, well, we have a lot more information. But people, I think people just have their own emotional responses. They've had their personal experiences. Yeah. If you know someone that's had a bad reaction, you're going to be like, you're a liar. Yeah.

I, like, and because that's strong, that's strong. You know, and for me it was the opposite. Like, I knew a married couple where the husband got vaccinated, the wife didn't, and she died of the delta. You know, and it's like, that was strong for me, right? You know, and then my uncle, it was, he was on a, like, hospitalized ventilator. I mean, it was like multiple people, like, in my in-law's, like, church, their pasture. I mean, it's like, it was, again, they're all older people. But like, yeah.

Yeah, the personal, I think we all have her, you know, and again, like I said for me, like, I don't know as many people as perhaps you do, but like no one was like, tell me about bad vaccine effects. It was like, oh, yeah, I was tired for like a day. Well, that's what vaccines do. Right. But so I do think that it should be talked about because apparently some universities still require COVID vaccines.

That seems crazy. Which it is because that is the population of people that are most affected, at least with respect to myocarditis risk. And they're also the population that is least affected by COVID, which isn't the same COVID as it was when, you know, it came from Wuhan, China. Like, it's evolved in such a way now that is so much less virulent. Most people have some natural immunity now because we've all been exposed.

Even people who think they haven't had COVID have been exposed to some low level. They have animal. Like, it's a different time. Like, there's no, you know. And even at that, it shouldn't have been mandated. No. I mean, I had it a couple times. And, you know, just for me, I never ran less than 10 miles a day no matter how sick I was.

So it wasn't like, I wasn't even whatever. But where I really had an issue is, you know, you mentioned the college age kids. That's one thing. But then when they got down to what six months old, you know, didn't they say that it's now six months old can get it and or can get are eligible for the vaccine? I'm like, why? Why are we doing this to? Yeah. Did a kid under five ever even?

Was there ever a risk? I'm sure there's outliers, right? Yeah. But most like like when we got it, like my son, it was like. Like he was kind of tired for one day and then it was like, he was like doing sport. I mean, it was like he's not even sick. Yeah. For me, it was kind of like like a mild flu.

It was kind of like I just felt bad for a day. And then, you know, how to run he knows. I think it's a big part too of when it's so nuanced like that. And there is so much, you know, it's who you're, what community you're part of. You know, if you're part of a university type community or the medical. profession. It's a big difference for me in the redneck bow hunting community. You know what I mean? So you're kind of influenced by who you're around. And the messages those people are receiving and you're talking about and it's something so emotionally charged. You know, it's like there's two camps.

And we were like the unvaccinated were the whatever, the scourge of the earth, you know, to some communities. It was emotionally charged to also because of the mandates. They should never have mandated it. But you know, the thing, and I was talking about this with you earlier, is that, you know, I think that some more outrage. I personally think there's enough data and combined with circumstantial data. So that makes me believe that this was, the SARS-Cove 2 was made in the lab. And, you know, to some degree, like, I get all the outrage for the vaccines. If you go on Twitter, like, that's what you see. And I get comments about it.

X. But, sorry, X, that's right. Just kidding. But like if you read tweets, I mean, they're so-called tweets. Right, yeah. If you read tweets, then, you know, you'll, you, you see, you read all that sort of, like, backlash. And I feel like it's almost, like, it's been a distraction from, like, the real, like, vaccines were made as a solution to a big problem. Right.

I think, you know, and it was one of the papers that it was from George Church, who was like, probably one of the world's best geneticist. geneticist, he tweeted it back in like 2020. Before anyone was talking about lab leak, okay? He tweeted this study. Didn't say anything about it, just tweeted a link. And if you clicked on the link, you read the paper, and it was like all about how the possibility that this was actually, this originated from a lab.

And it was like molecular evidence looking at these furon sites and how they like, you know, just without getting into all the details, like how it possibly could have been genetically like made. And it was at that point where I was reading that paper and then I started looking. I was like, oh, well, has this ever been found in other viruses? And lo and behold, I did find that naturally occurring, there was some other naturally occurring mutations in that spot that did, you know, but it was very rare and also just the fact that the other circumstantial date where you're like, this came from like how far from the

Wuhan Institute of biology. Right, like the wet lab was how far from it and all that. where you're going, hmm, maybe the fact that those, you know, like. So what did you think at first, though? Because people were saying that from the, you know, from the beginning. I think Trump said it was. I think even back in August of 2021, I was heavily for that it was made in the lab. Really?

Okay. I just, I don't think I ever talked about it. Some people still, I mean, educated people still would say that's not true. Um, in that the thing that's scary is, well, scientists always, like, this isn't new, right? I mean, there's always disagreement. Right. Um, but I, I think that there, that this needs to like be banned, honestly. What be banned?

Gain of function research where, where basically we are humans and even in the, in the, in the name of vaccines, because it's like, oh, well, we're manipulating these viruses and we're making them so they can infect humans. and we're going to study so that we can make a vaccine in case it ever happens. Oh, right. But here's the reality is that humans are, as we were talking about, they're sloppy. Yeah. Like, just because someone has a PhD and is a scientist doesn't mean they're not going to fuck something up.

Yeah, yeah. Because let me tell you, it happens all the time. I've done it many times. I've seen very esteemed scientist. I saw one injecting a mouse, thankfully with placebo, and his hand hit like the tissue culture. like plastic thing, but the syringe like back fried and went ready to do his chest. Oh my God. And I'm like, this guy's training me and I was like, what do we do?

Yeah. Where it's, you know, the point is, is that I was trying to make was that. Humans are flawed. Yeah. And that I think that, you know, it, the time that people should have gotten mad about this potential gain of function, we'll call it, research that did. I think, again, it's my opinion. Yeah.

It's very likely that it originated from a lab. Yeah. And it is terrifying to think that, like, what if this had a 90% fatality rate? Oh, God. It could have wiped out the planet. Like that. And I think that's kind of what people are worried about at the very beginning. And people should be worried about it.

The media was, that's what they were selling. And I was thinking, I'm like, God, is everybody going to die from this shit? What's going on? Oh, yeah. That's what I thought at first, too. But do you remember when you would, like, wear gloves and walk across the scene? I know. But it actually could happen.

depending on what virus they're manipulating and making. It could. Yeah, I mean, it's not out of the possibility. And then the fact of the matter is then maybe things mutate on its own. And, you know, so, yeah, I mean, I think the pushback, it's been, it's been a lot on on the vaccines. And maybe if they weren't mandated, that wouldn't have been such. People would have been more pushing back on the fact that this could have been.

I like how you made the decision with your son. You weighed out the risk. the situation and that's how it should be. It's how it should be. That's how it should be. It's different. Every situation is different. And that's why people always ask me, what do you think about vaccines?

Like, what do you think about childhood vaccines? And it's like, are you going to put your four month old baby? Yeah. Like, because like, like, the virus is spread between kids like wildfire. I mean like, you know, so if you have, again, a four month old baby in a daycare and like there's something that's pretty bad spreading, like that's dangerous. Yes. So there's the risk, right?

There's the benefit, the risk. Yeah. It's like, what's the risk of giving the young baby, you know, the D-Tap? Probably not so hot. It's not so high because most people do do it, right? Yeah. But there's risk. There's risk.

Yeah. You know, especially with the combination of things too, right? I mean, genetics and there's all sorts of things playing a role. Diet. Yeah. I mean, so. Yeah. I mean, I know you've, I think, you know, you went on Rogan and I don't know, I can't

remember how it went, but I remember there was a lot of, you probably got a lot of backlash, you know, I mean, and so I, but to me personally, I respect how you're able to be objective about it and be like, yes, this was my opinion at that time. And then I saw all this data and now my opinion has changed. Right. My opinion has changed, but particularly on myocarditis and there's a few things like with, I felt like there was what I, I don't even like this term misinformation because I feel like our government is the one that was providing the most misinformation. And so now, and at the time I called it that and now it's like, it's like one of those things were like, and now I hate that word, you know, where I'm like, misinformation.

You know what I mean? So, but there were things. Like there were some things that like people were saying that, again, I just, I felt like it was not true and not accurate and there wasn't data to support it. Right. And I was, again, like, so at the time, it was a very different time, Delta. Delta virus, the vaccines to some degree were preventing transmission. They were preventing severe, like, because people were getting a lot sicker.

They were, like older people, older people, not younger people. There were younger people, but generally speaking, right? Exactly. So, you know, and now we're at a point where it's like, and this is with anything in policy, we're like, you hold on to the old stuff. Like we're talking about the RDA for protein, like, we had new data people. Come on, let's change stuff, right? You know, people are still holding on to, I'll.

I really think some people are still like, oh, yeah, vaccines are preventing transmission. We need to get vaccines. Probably. But they don't at all. They don't prevent. And like, it's not that severe. COVID's not that severe. So what are they doing?

Right. I don't really know. Right. But I do, I am kind of glad we're talking about this. I'm also a little terrified because I do think it's, it's an emotional thing. And, you know. I don't think you should be terrified because it makes, what you're saying makes sense. Yeah.

I don't want to make it like I was so wrong. Again, I mean, it was that I was using the data that I had, which was preprint data. If you go back to August 2021, it was preprint data with the myocarditis. Oh, and the fertility stuff, you know, like even now you see there's publications. There's no effect on fertility. But then you see all these publications where it's like, it's changing women's menstrual periods. Something's happening. And I don't think we understand what.

So I don't think we can say it's not affecting fertility. Yeah. I, you know, so there's, that's another part where I'm kind of following it. But again, it's like, okay, there's the data saying it doesn't. And you can find all the flaws with that data. But when you start to see like, I mean, we're talking like 10 studies where it's like, no, women's menstrual periods. It's made women that were in menopause start menstruating again.

Yeah. I mean, and that was for me was wild. I'm like, what's going on? That's strange. Now, immune system affects do, you know, like the immune system affects all that. But like, so, I mean, I don't want to like make it, it's, again, I think that for me, I was doing the best I could with the information I had available with my personal experience. Some people thought I was like paid off by the government.

I mean, like, you know, like, look, I, you know, I think now that I was, I was, I was, tried the best I could with that circumstance. And with the myocarditis thing, it was, the data has changed, in my opinion. And again, you'll find scientists and say, no, it's still the same. But there's enough data out there that to me, it was like, no, there's, it's doing something in young people that is scary. Yeah. I, you know, you talk about personal experience. I mean, you know, my daughter got the vaccine because she was over at the, you know, you know, you know, you know, university or at school and everybody's like, like I say, the community you're around and you hear from influences your decision. So she's an adult. She can do what she wants. She

knows how I feel about it. But anyway, she did it. All I know is one night, five in the morning, I heard something bang. And I got up and went into her bathroom and she was passed out on the floor. And right after the vaccine, I mean, it's just, it's like, uh, we had, uh, Bob Sagat. He passed out, hit his head and died. Right. So you know how bathrooms are, hard counters. Anyway, point is nothing had changed in her entire life other than getting the vaccine. Everything was exactly the same. But she passed out and I was like, I go in there. I'm like, is she dead? I didn't know what, I didn't know what happened. So I'm like, trying to wake her up, turn to wake her up.

So we take her to, you know, call the doctor or whatever. She came to, got her up, did everything I needed to do. And they said, oh, she's just dehydrated. It's like she hadn't changed anything. She's 100% healthy. Nothing had changed. She hadn't like went on a long run, hadn't drank. And it was like, so for me, that was like you talk about you're going to be influenced by

personal experience. How am I supposed to ignore that? Oh, no. Yeah. Like if something like that happened to me, I mean, you know, it would like if I had known someone that had a bad effect like that, especially a family member or a really close friend, it would have, I would have thought otherwise. It would have very much influenced. And I probably would have been looking more for, in looking at the data, I probably would have been looking at it through a different lens than I was. I was looking at it through a different lens, I think.

I completely understand it because everybody was and was hard. It's the information age more than it's ever been. You can find whatever you're looking for. You can. And so if you want to believe this one thing, you will find that. Yeah. And it's just like this was such a, God, such a divisive issue. But, you know, for anybody listening to this and I'll listen to any you talk ever,

they know how genuine you are. I mean, come on. It's just like, yeah, you, at that one time you felt this. way now you now you feel this way who couldn't respect that you know what i mean so i i appreciate you talking about it i know we the goal wasn't to get into that no because because why i'm that's not why i'm a fan of yours you know because of some some hot topic issue i'm a fan of you because got you're so interesting so smart the way you verbalize things the way you deliver it is just so you know, appealing and easy and makes sense.

So that's why you're here. I mean, and I appreciate what you do. And I'm just like glad that we can talk about it. It's like, I really appreciate it too. I've had a really fantastic time these last two days. I mean, yesterday was awesome. And I really do like the archery. For me, I'm calling it archery.

And it was bow hunting. Yeah. I didn't really hunt anything. So for me, it's archery. But it was like very much like relaxing. And like the focus, it was. Yeah, like I said last night. Meditative, you know.

Yeah, that's what I explained. Last night when we were trying to, you know, we had a bear 3D target. So it's a silhouette, foam, replica of a bear. It's actually a small bear. But so we had that out there. And like when you were, you know, going through your shooting process with the bow, it's brand new. But, and I said, you know, I mentioned, you can't be thinking about anything else in your life than doing this right now. And that's what's so therapeutic about shooting a bow.

Well, caveat, I was thinking about how I wanted to impress campaigns, but no, you're right. Just think of the setting, too, you know, it's a, and I wish I could share moments like that with everybody because it's so powerful, but we're out there, a beautiful evening. The sun's setting to the west. We got a ridge that's teeming with deer and elk and lions up there in the background. We're cooking wild game on the treger. John and Jen are cooking us some white-tailed tenderloin. and we're shooting arrows at it and you're just doing so well and it's such a process and you're so focused it's like when I look at everything to me that's like the perfect evening I mean it was so

that's what I live for times like that I kind of get it I mean I say kind of because I only did it once but like I really enjoyed I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it like I just didn't expect like I didn't know really what to expect but I think having Wayne too, like the teacher who was... The herd bull. Super into it and just such a good teacher. Yeah. Like, he was like transferring me like some of his passion for it or something.

You know what I mean? Where it's like contagious. Yes. You're like, this guy loves this. Oh, lives for it. Yeah. And so like having, I think having that as well also is just, it's kind of contagious. Yeah.

Yeah, Cam loves this. Wayne loves this. This is like, okay, let's experience it. Let's really try to like do it, you know. Yeah. So, but... Well, and then to end this, And I remember how well you were shooting?

I was, it was given my confidence. Like, I was, like, getting those little confidence boosters where, like, maybe I didn't get it right in the lung, like, where the lungs were supposed to be, but, like, getting it so close. Yeah. You know, it was like a little. Yeah, a couple of little shots. Yeah, a couple of years. It's like, oh, I could.

I'm like, first of all, I was like, I'm hitting the bear. Are you kidding me? Like, I don't. Right. I know. And it is out there away. So we started off, and, you know, maybe a couple in the dirt, maybe a couple to the right. But then that process and you were like such a good student doing.

everything perfect holding that pin there, pulling hard, releasing, and then in last two shots right in the lungs. It's like, oh my God, it's so it's in power. I just loved it. Where were those last two shots that we were doing that was not after the, I popped the balloon? Yeah, it was. Was it close to the lung? They were both in the lung. They were in the lung? They were both perfect. Oh, I didn't get that they were in the lung. No, yeah, because remember I shot two? Yeah, and they were right by yours. They were by each other. Those were all kill shots. For kill shots. Yes.

Yeah. It was, and I think because we were powered by Whitetail, Tinderwine, remember? You know, Jen was cooked us. I told him we were going to be out there because I said, we got, you know, a big day. We got to do the mountain. We got to get her both set up. But I said in the evening, once a wind lays down, we're going to be out there to shoot at distance. And so John said, okay, Jen has a plan.

She's going to cook up a little bit of meat for Ronda. And, you know, we were talking if you'd ever have a wild. game meat, then that led to a discussion of what's actually wild. Yeah, my naive self. See, I actually don't know everything. Right. So you'd been eating elk meat, but not, of course, wild because you can't sell wild. And so we had that, the tenderloin, and then we had the grizzly, and then you were shooting

just incredible. And I don't think it's coincidence. I think you were like. Oh, yeah, it was after meat that I started shooting better. Right. See? What do you think about that? What does a science say?

say. Well, I definitely was refueling. Yeah. We know that for a fact. Yeah, but I like to romanticize it a little bit more and just say, oh, yeah, it's because of that. The creatine and the meat and the, yeah. Of course. Yeah. And, you know, Wayne likes to say this too is that the reason why that experience can be so empowering and then you're getting better and it just feels if watching an arrow flying hit, he'll say that, you know, archery is old as mankind. It's like, we've been doing this a long time. So when you start to do it, even if you hadn't done it, it feels familiar because it's in us. Yeah.

Interesting. That's, that's, you know, there'd be no data to support that, but that's what I believe. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll let you have it. Well, I was like, I couldn't believe also it's just like how strong you were. I mean, I think people are going to be, they're so used to being, you being smart and just like so well spoken in our. But then you were a fucking beast also. I mean, just powering those weights up. Your arms are tone strong. We're always a showing when I had them. Hell yeah. It was. Hell yeah. No, it was. It's

going to be probably, I don't know what you shared so much on social, but probably not stuff like this. Have you? No. And we jump rope too, remember? Of course I do. Yeah, you're out there jumping rope. We got that. It's like, you know, people are going to see a whole new side. side of Dr. Rhonda Patrick. I mean, it was a fun time. I appreciate you hosting and giving me that experience, Kim. I never would have done any of that, you know, lifting the 35, was it 35? 35.

I don't think I've ever would have done that. There's no personal trainer that would have, you know, done that. I'm pretty sure. Maybe so there is, but like, I'm not sure that I would have sought them out. Right, right. Or being this, I think it's also, it's what I've seen this many times, but it's the, But it's the overall, like, I'm going into this and I know it's going to be challenging because of, you know, either you see what I do and you're like, okay. So then you're in a different place than when you normally go to a gym.

You're like, this is a big day. I got to be, you know, I'm going to have to do more than I've ever done. So people come in with that attitude and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh, I'm totally like that. That's my personality type for sure. Well, and so it came to fruition. It happened. You were stronger than you've ever been.

You got up a mountain in the heat of the day. Well, I mean, I was doing that because I was here with you. I know. It is very like motivating. And you got up on the monument. And it's like, how beautiful was that? Oh, man. That was awesome.

Yeah. That was awesome. I'm so impressed that you run that. And that's, it's really a lot. Like, it's very inspiring to like I follow your Instagram and all your, you know, and training that you do, all the different types of training. Like you post a lot of running. but you do like the weight, the weight training and stuff.

And like, I'm just like, I'm sitting here going, how I'm going to like work out for 20 minutes? And look at this guy. Like, he's like, I mean, you know, so. What did you, what's your thoughts on hunting? I never knew, you know, have you been around hunting before and now is it different? Not really. I mean, I learned anything. You know, so I think thinking, so I've never really been around hunting.

Like, I eat meat. So for me, it's not like, I know the meat comes from an animal that is no longer alive. You look at it more of like, what's this meat offering my body? I do. Like nutritionally. And so that's definitely more how I look at it. So it's a very different perspective. I, like, being able to like go and you're the one providing for your family and sharing with others.

I mean, Jen and John were talking about sharing with like people that are. in need. Yeah. Like that was really, that's incredible. Like that's sort of, that's incredible, right? I go and buy my meat from like the farmer's market or the grocery store. I Instacart it. That's what most people do. Yeah. So it's a, I'm very removed from that, that whole process, right? And I don't know that I can speak to it. Like I saw your video with the, with the bear. Yeah. But like, I don't, without experiencing it, like, I, there's no way I could understand what it's like. To kill an animal. Yeah.

And then to provide for your family, right? Because it's not like I'm not, I'm indirectly responsible for that, you know, that animal dying because I'm buying meat and there's demand for that meat, right? Like I'm eating it because I, it's beneficial. Like it's a very high quality source of protein. It's got a high quality iron that's bioavailable and zinc and B vitamins. And I'm, I'm not sedentary and unhealthy. So it's, you know, it's not like a bad thing for me.

So it's not, you know, it's not like I don't eat the meat, right? So why would I have a problem with hunting? Yeah. You know, but it is, it's, I'm interested in it because now like doing the whole, the archery experience with the compound bow and like, like, it's cool. I see like, you know, it was like fun doing it and also like therapeutic where it was, you know, so you practice this thing and then you go and you use that. amazing skill that you practice to like provide for your family yeah um and so like again i can't relate

but i'm like trying to put it together you know what i mean yeah so i mean i i appreciate people that give me and my family meet yeah of course well hunters love to do it and that i always in the show like this um with your brand new bow because you're kidding yeah yeah so this is your bow but This, you are the ultimate outlier and outliers get their own equipment. Oh my gosh. I get this bow? Yeah, you didn't know you got to take this one? No, I had no idea.

Well, I'll send it to you because your bag's already full. But no, this is yours. Everything, all the arrows. And the arrows? Yeah. Oh, so I can like practice and do. Oh, that's so cool. So you have, you're an archer.

You have your own bow. That is this. Yes, because I know what to do. Like this is, what about the release thing? Yeah, that too. Okay. Everything. Everything, whatever you need.

You're an Archer now, and that's how you're in the show. That's your beau. Thank you so much for coming all the way here to Springfield, Oregon. It's, you know, I never anticipated I'd get somebody of your stature to come here and I could share my life with you. It's like, I mean, it means so much to me, Rhonda. Thank you very much. Oh, thank you.

Thank you. Like, I can't thank you enough. Like, it's been a great experience. And now I get to, like, I had no idea. I get to, like, practice. this and like like like I'm excited to share it with so I have to get like we'll have to figure out where my husband can get one of these because yeah um yeah Wayne was telling me of some places where we can shoot in San Diego yeah performance archery right yeah Bob Fromm's shop he's the best

awesome he's you know him and Wayne are from the same cloth okay well I want to say thank you then come give you a big hug so okay let's do it all right thank you thanks loophole optics has been providing my binoculars and I wear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glass as all I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years. Thank you loophold for supporting the podcast. It's time to gear up for summer at Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's. Time for trips to the lake, stories around the campfire, and memories with friends and family. Shop Bass Pro Shops and Cabellas.

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