Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 035 - Sally McRae

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Sally McRae is a professional trail runner and mother of two from Southern California. When Sally was young, her parents recognized her natural competitive and passionate nature and helped her pursue her talents throughout high school. After college, Sally began running long distances while pursuing her career in fitness. In addition to training and running races, Sally is also passionate about inspiring others to live their best lives. She loves coaching, writing and speaking to groups of people whenever she can. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Connect with Sally McRae:  https://www.instagram.com/yellowrunner/  https://sallymcrae.com/    Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code Cam for 15% off  Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first Order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv  Go Ruck: https://www.goruck.com use code CAM for 10% off  Breeo: https://breeo.co    Timestamps: 0:00:00  Intro 0:01:27  Being Happy Despite a Hard Childhood 0:03:39  Sally McRae: Endurance Athlete 0:05:44  2023 Races: Goals and Struggles 0:14:16  The Ability to Rewrite Your Story 0:22:37  The Message of Life in Running 0:24:53  Purpose in Writing “Choose Strong” 0:27:35  Sally’s Mom: Life is Hard, Work Harder 0:30:06  GoRuck Ad 0:30:46  Breeo Ad 0:31:24  A Background of Faith 0:38:12  Having Hope in a Hard World 0:44:36  Finding Someone to Stand By You in Hard Times 0:48:01  “Standing in the Rain” 0:56:58  Pressure to Be Tough 01:10:00  Comparison is the Thief of Joy 01:14:22  We Need a Part 2

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How are you doing? You're pumped. That's where we're starting? You like it? Cameron, we have had like the best, like last 48 hours. I know, I know. And we're just flowing through. So to our listeners, just so you know, we have been talking nonstop.

Yeah, for days. Oh, my God. I feel like, well, we were just talking just now. I was like, oh, we probably should. to hit record earlier, right? Yeah, yeah. But one of the reasons why I was so excited to get up here is long after I started following you and then your book came out, I was like, oh, this guy's my people.

Like we have a lot of similarities in how we were raised, what we had growing up, how we think. And I get so excited just to be able to connect with people that have that same drive and focus in life. but um and it was as soon as i got out of the airport yeah yeah i mean you your personality though is one of a kind you know i mean just you know which is crazy and i knew this from hearing your story and and reading your book and knowing about you is like it's almost you've been through so much but then you would never know it if if you didn't know your backstory you'd see you and say this

is the happiest person i've ever seen you know i mean it's just big personality big smile just laughing, but then, which is the direct opposite of what he had to go through, you know, growing up. So why is that, do you think? What has changed? Or were you always that person or what is this? It's interesting. You look back like my mom was pretty good at keeping baby books. We had five kids in my family.

And one of the most consistent things was I was a happy kid. I was just joyful. And I think happiness and joyfulness are two different things. You know, happiness can be, it can be fleeting. It's a feeling that, you know, and even as parents, we say that, like, we would just want our kids to be happy. But joy is something that you can feel in darkness because joy is when it comes out, it's strength. You know, it's rooted in gratefulness and hope. You know, it's that idea of like, even though it hurts so bad or that.

this sucks. And we can equate that, you know, even in a race. Like you can be joyful in that moment because the fact that your body is able to move and you have this opportunity to test yourself, even though it hurts so bad and things aren't going your way. But I think from the time I was young, I had a joyfulness. It was what teachers would always tell my mom when they would do the parent conferences, what coaches would say.

and so I wore that, I think, because my mom would say it, people would say it all the time, like she's so happy and I loved people and had really high energy. But yeah, you're right. You read the book and you realize there's a whole other, like, struggle and going on too. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Well, why don't you?

So you're an ultra runner, an endurance athlete. We'll just catch people up to speed basically on who Sally McCrae is. Just one of the most talented endurance athletes in the women's space that I know of right now and just crushing it. You've done, let's see. So you've done two 200 so far. You've got Bigfoot coming up and then you're going to do Moab in October. Yeah.

So the goal was four 200 plus mile races in a handful. Five months. A handful of months. Yeah. The grand slam of 200s, I think, is whatever. it's called. And which is, it seems unreal because I've done 200s and I've never done more than one in a year and I just know, you know, the kind of challenge. It's like it's such a, not only physical, but mental and I don't, just nervous system and entire body challenge. So to come back to back to back to back

to back and do this, that's crazy. Yeah, it is. But I mean, when I listen to you talk, I feel like there's a mindset. It doesn't matter how many 200s you do. It's just when you sign out that registration form, you're believing in the fact that you can get the finish line of this distance. And I know when you did it, you did it very well. Yeah. You understand.

You can empathize with the struggle, right? Yeah. But, you know, I don't, I think when I get to the start lines, I look around at these 200s. I'm like, dude, everyone here is freaking amazing. It does not matter. If you, how fast, you know, you're going. But you have belief that your body can take you to the finish line.

Like, yeah. That's, that's so rad. It's a privilege to be out there. How incredible is that? Just a lot, it is. It's empowering to know your body can do this. Like, I can do this. And, you know, you're going to have challenges along the way.

Yeah. And you're going to question, why the hell am I doing this? But you keep pushing through. And it's such a special accomplishment. but it gives us confidence in life. You know what I mean? So when you knocked, tell us how you've done in the first two this year. How have those races went?

Well, gosh, this is, it's been a challenge. I started off the year saying, well, every year I kind of have a similar goal. It's like I want to be better than I was last year. And I think that my curiosity has always fueled my life. And that's even how I started in this sport. was, wow, it's super cool that our bodies can go that far. Like, I want to try that. And so this year, I had that same mindset.

For a while, I've known about 200s, and people have asked, like, when are you to do 200? And for a while, I thought, no, I'm not doing that distance. It just sounds crazy. Sounds like a different event. Yeah. But then it's like, I'm all in or I'm not. So I decided I'm not going to sign it for one.

I'm going to do the grand slam. I'm going to do all four. And I want to learn and just be a student of this event. because I really feel like it's its own events, its own sport. Because you can't run these things. Yeah. You can't run them like 100, right? Right.

And you've done your fair share of all types of hundreds. It's just, yeah, it's a different beast. But I love that. Yeah. And I think the cool thing about Ultras is that we, you know, you can come into the sport and it can be a standalone sport. Like if that's what you love, you love running the mountains, you love doing hundreds or you love doing 200s, like own it.

And I wanted to own that this year. So the first one was Coconan 2.50. That was on May 1st. Just did Tahoe 200. That was last week. And then, yeah, we had Bigfoot coming up in six days. Oh, man. Yeah. One got moved because of snowpack. So it's not advantageous that two are like 15 days apart. But Kokadona 250 was the buildup to that as I looked at the schedule. I thought I'm going, my body's probably going to get really broken down.

So I spent the first like five months just I wanted to put on muscle weight and I wanted to get as strong as possible. So I went into Kokadona a little on the heavier side as far as muscle goes. knowing that when I'd finish that and go into Tahoe, I'd be a lot lighter. And that is what happened. But Cocodona 250 turned out to be a suffer fest for me. I historically, in a very prideful way,

I've always said I never get blisters of lactones. I don't. I mean, I've done bad water three times. I never got a single blister out there. Like, no, nothing. Wow. My feet are great. I've run all over the world through jungles, up mountains,

through rivers in every weather system you can think of. And I never have to worry about my feet. Six miles in, maybe even less than that, into Coca-Dona, I could feel my socks were really slippery and were moving all around in a shoe that I have worn for the last decade. And I thought, that's like, what the heck's going on? You don't see your crew for like almost the first 40 miles. So by the time I saw my crew, I already had several blisters.

Skin was ripped off the back of my heels. and I thought, okay, I got to make a decision right now. Like, I'm going to be really upset about this, or I'm going to, like, just own it, and we're going to do the best of what we can. So it was just management of the feet as the race went on. But as the race went on, they turned into full-blown foot wounds, and one of them turned into, like, a pretty deep ulcer,

like a stage three ulcer, I think is what they'd call it. I saw the pictures. It was nasty. There is a film on it, every step forward. but the only picture that's up is in my Instagram. You have to scroll the way to, I think, to the 10th picture. Instagram kind of made it a sensitive photo. Oh, okay.

So I had to like hide it in a carousel. Yeah, I see. It's pretty gross. They were a mess. Yeah. They were a mess. I don't think I've ever had that much physical pain in a race. And as I had set out to do, I said, I want to grow, I want to learn.

I want to be better than I was last year. I guess you got right to it. There we go. Physical pain is, is. is a teacher. Or those new socks? They were, and it's really embarrassing because I've been doing this sport for so long.

Yeah. I had bought this new pair of Belaga socks, which I love Belaga. They're from South Africa. They make amazing socks and it goes to charity. You know, it helps people in the community. So I love purchasing these socks. And I had all my stuff out for two weeks in the living room on two couches. And when that stuff came in the mail, I put it into my, I had like 12 pairs of socks.

And I told myself, okay, I need to wash these. And then I never came back to it. So I made that mistake of not taking them out and just putting them in the wash. So I picked those up. And the thing is, is they're the same color as a sock I had used all the time. So when I had grabbed it, I was like, I just wasn't thinking about the fact that it was a brand new sock. So it's a colorful sock. It was a thick sock.

And sometimes the oils on colorful clothes can can affect that. So I remember right. I wore socks. one time that for whatever reason I was coming down and just piss you just a little run, but my feet were hot. Like the friction, they were sliding in there because they were kind of slighty socks. It doesn't sound like these were, but it made, I couldn't believe how hot my foot got. I'm like, geez, I'm glad I learned this on this little run instead of a race.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Foot of shoes that early in a 250 mile race, who, yeah, rough. But I had to own it. I think one of the most important things that we can do is regardless of you, you feel, feel like you're a victim or it's a mistake that you made we're humans or we make imperfect choices all the time you have to take responsibility for it and I thought I am not going to not

get to the finish line because I made a very you know rookie mistake and I'm and that's not going to that's not the story I'm going to tell oh I just chose wrong socks my feet were beat up no like you will get to the finish line yeah and you're going to own that take your responsibility for it and do better next time. But it was painful. So that was one. And then two, we did Lake Tahoe just, they were 11 weeks apart, did different type of training for that and wanted to be a little bit faster. I loved the idea of winning that race. I thought I can do sub 60 on this course. And a couple days before the race, my son came home from summer camp and was sick. I haven't been sick in years.

So Wednesday before the race, the race was on a Friday morning. I woke up sick. But I didn't think a lot of it. I'm like, I'm not throwing up. I don't have a fever. But when you're sick and you go push your body to maximum for, you know, 70 hours, it's going to jack up your immune system. So, yeah, I suffered in that.

I mean, I finished that race with bronchitis and sinusitis. I mean, really wrecked my immune system and was only able to eat. I think it came out to like 3,000 or 3,500 calories the entire race. In almost three days. In almost three days. And we had the skin was so soft and like baby skin on my feet from Kocodona. So all those blisters came back. And it was just one thing after another.

You know, it was a different course. It was we had heat. We had extreme altitude. It was all these things. rolled in a one. It was longer. It was longer. It was almost, yeah, it was like 2.18 or something like that. But I feel like it was kind of the same thing. I remember being halfway into that race and thinking, I didn't want another experience like I had at Cocodona. I don't, why does it always have to be like this like painful overcoming get to the finish line? You know? We did that for the

too strong project. Like I wanted and we had film guys there. So we're making a film for it. too. And at one point I look at my film guys and I'm like, dude, I wanted to like have this badass, like let's race, let's get after it, you know, like this really cool journey of 200 miles, how much we can push and like really put ourselves out there. And this is turning into Cocodona 2.0. Right. And so I remember, I think it was like Mile 150 using that anger and that that disappointment of I trained really hard. I know I can run fast. This wasn't the script. Yeah, this wasn't the script, but remembering we have this ability to rewrite the story. Like no one can live our life except us. No one can make those decisions except us. And I remember feeling what I was feeling.

It just so much physical pain. And I had fried my body like early on and I was puking water, you know, like by I was 50 miles and I was so sick. It wouldn't let me leave the aid station for a couple hours until I processed something. And so I ran hot the whole time. I was always always hot, was always hurting, and I thought, I'm either just going to sit and complain about how uncomfortable I am and get to the finish line, or I'm just going to embrace that and see how well I can be uncomfortable and get to the finish line. And this time I was in fourth place. And I looked at my husband, Eddie, and I thought, all right, I don't feel great. I was able to eat a smoothie. I have a little bit of energy in me. How far is third place? He's like,

seriously he's like like three four miles I was like I'm going to catch her and I and I knew it it would go in a red line zone but but that was the goal I wanted to be on that podium I I knew that I had worked hard for that that was the story that I wanted to write that's and I thought I I will be so much more proud of myself in this performance knowing I gave everything I got if I can at least try yeah I'm not guaranteed that right no just because you want to right right Because the third place, wanted third place too? Yeah. Or maybe second.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Everybody has their own goals. Yeah. So what happened? So it took me about 30 miles, but I caught her. Really? Yeah.

The next aid station I arrived over an hour earlier than they had expected. The crew was freaking out because they were looking at the tracker and all of a sudden they were like, dude, I don't know if we're going to get the aid station on time. And then my good buddy, Billy Yang, hopped in. with me for the next section. I love Billy. Oh, he's, and we were like brother and sister. And he was the perfect person at that time because I came in to the aid station on just

a tear. Yeah. I was still like kind of on edge, just like pissed. Yeah, I was cranky. Yeah, I was cranky. I was pissed at how much discomfort I have. And I think that's pretty normal when we're so uncomfortable and so much pain. Like you don't want to listen to people talking.

You want everyone to shut up. And it's like, so I remember just looking right out and I was like, dude, like I'm going hard the whole next section like you're you're either ready for that or you're not and he's looking at me he's like why do you think I showed up like what is your problem and so um the guys all got this on on the camera but my husband later told me he's like dude when you left you're all like yeah yeah yeah let's go because it was like this coming back to life like what's going on and it's just this war with the discomfort of yeah you're here you are not my friend but I'm going to be stronger than you and it's like this is all about what you know that what is it worth to you in this moment and as a

mom I think about all the times that I leave to train all that focus and that like dedication and I want to make that matter you know and so when it isn't going my way I've had enough races in my career I've been doing this for so long where I have given up or I've got I've gotten that DNF I'm my fair share of that like I'm not perfect I don't have had a spectacular every single race but I feel like I've learned my lesson so many times. I know what I'm capable of. I know what I can endure. And so much of that discomfort and pain,

it's like, dude, it's gone like just a couple hours after cross the finish line. Yeah. And so you kind of obsess over that finish line feeling. You obsess over what's the story that I want to tell tomorrow. What's that story that I'm going to remember that I'm going to tell myself? What am I programming into my brain for next time? And as I ran along with Billy,

we talked a little, you know, we were talking a little bit about what was going on and how we were going to, you know, catch this, you know, F3. But I started thinking about Cocodona. And I thought I was in horrific pain for so long. Like my feet are just being ripped to shreds as I'm going up mountains in the worst way. And I thought that I'm not feeling that right now. Yeah. It's not that bad. But you know what?

I still got to that finish line. and I am capable of this. And so pushing just, it just became all about the mind. And what your mind believes the body can absolutely achieve. And you were after F2 at that time. I was. So this is the part that kind of got scary. So we dropped into Spooner.

It's the last aid station as we go into the finish, which is an 18-mile stretch. At this time, I thought it was only 18 miles. I had gone up, I'd done a training on this section. I'd run this section already two times. I'd ran it with Billy on the way out because it's an out and back. I knew it like the back of my hand. I knew exactly what I wanted to do.

I had redlined catching F2. And I wanted to catch her in this section, hit the next section, and just go after. Well, I caught F3, so I wanted to go after F2. So I get into the aid station. Billy is with me. And I look at the volunteer and I say, how long ago to F2 leave? And he says, well, 45, 60 minutes. And I start doing the calculation of my head, okay, we've got 18 miles.

Like, you know, what is it that I need to run? And, you know, my adrenaline is pumping. And I look at Billy and I was like, I'm doing this section on my own. I'll see you at the finish line. And I look at the volunteer. I was like, I'm going to go get her right now. And I just took off. And it was a climb all the way up.

And in that decision, it was I am so uncomfortable. I, everything hurts so bad. I need to go to a quiet place. Like we just I I can't have anyone around right I don't want conversation I don't want anyone telling me when to eat or like what pace I need to keep or like like I I need to go to a quiet place and just embrace everything I'm feeling and and work at this quietly. Right. And you know and that's something I do quite a bit when I race but unfortunately because of my extreme lack of calories very like very little sleep and just a body.

that had been fried for so long, I blacked out. And that was kind of the journey to the finish line. I'm really grateful F4 didn't end up catching me. But I only remember sections. And sometimes I would come to. I thankfully never fell. Thankfully, I was never on a ridge. But so disoriented.

And I would kind of come to and be staring at trees and I'd be talking to trees. Drew and Tyler, who are the filmmakers, they were on the course throughout the race. but I thought I saw, I thought every tree and rock was them. So I'd be, I'd come to and I would think, Drew, Tyler, is that you? And then there is one section where they actually were there and I'm staring at him and I'm kind of like afraid of them. And after the race, they told me like, dude, you have freaked us out. Like we had, and they don't, because they're film makers, they don't ever talk to me.

They don't ever interact. They want everything in real life. And so after the race, they're like, you were like freaking us out because you're like giving us this really. weird look and I was like, I thought you were my hallucination because that is just what was going on. But I finally took out my topo map and I was just glued to it. And I thought, I know I have to get somewhere. And I just was following all the trackers of, you know, the map all the way to the finish line. But at some point, I realize this is a different route. And, you know, 206 miles went by, which I thought was the distance. And then it was 210, 212, 2. 214. I mean,

Oh. Yeah. Because you had calorie, you had, you had normally when you have your mindset on, okay, this is a finish line, you're done there. Yes. I mean, you know that. No matter what it is. Yes. It could be 50, 100, 200, but you're done because that you've been the goal.

Yeah. And now they move the goal post. Yes. And I think this is actually, I mean, you bring up a really good point, Cam, because I think this is, and I say this often when I share stuff online. because running for me is a beautiful metaphor to life. It's why I do it. I love to talk about the message of life in running. Racing is such a gentle way to experience discomfort and pain.

It's gentle because you have these. It's structured. It's set up for you. There's support along the way. And you know, like, when we hit that 100 mile mark, you're going to be all done. But life is not like that. Like sometimes that discomfort,

in that pain it comes and that's all you're thinking about is when is this going to end and sometimes we lose hope or we give up or we stop trying too early because there is no finish line in sight for us there is no light at the end of the tubble and so I think for me like I had to go to that place in the race remember that like this is so similar to life I'm so disappointed that the finish line is not at mile 206, but I know how to be in that great disappointment and keep going, because the finish line will eventually come. Yeah. Like it will be there. And so it's keeping that hope. I just, I know I just need to keep moving forward. I need to keep checking this map. Okay, I'm moving on the right path. It's not where I want it to be. This feels horrible. And I'm actually really second guessing if I

can get there. But I am, I'm going to get there. Yeah. So finishing, finishing was a, It was pretty emotional. I bet. Yeah. Do you, I mean, do you remember times in life that you wondered, is this going to last forever? Is this going to ever end? Like true challenge, life challenges? Do you remember having those same similar feelings?

Yeah. I mean, I think this is some of the discussion that you and I had yesterday. I loved so much where, you know, you kind of resort back to like, well, this is how life has always been for me. Like, this is just the family that I grew up. This is just the town. This is just how it is. And so I really don't need to look beyond these parameters of darkness or hopelessness or pain

because I guess this is just the life that was chosen for me. And so I'm just going to sit here and be in it. And, you know, my book, Choose Strong, one of the, my greatest hopes in writing that was to showcase that. There's a certain artistry I have in the way I did the job. chapters. I purposely wrote it simply. My goal was for someone to pick it up and be able to read it in either one or two sittings, which has been amazing to see so many people tell me that it did. Because a lot of books go left unread. But I thought if I could write, I think it's 25 chapters or 22 chapters. And every time you open up a chapter, it just gets right to your heart. It just

punches you in the face or punches you in the gut every time. It's not, it's not this like flowery words and eventually getting to the story it's like and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened and it was let down after let down after pain after hurt after loss and just turmoil for the first 18 years of my life and I had a lot of seasons especially as I got older that I would look back and I know you and I talked about the power of remembrance and remembering where you came from and I think there's a point sometimes times that we hit in life where we look back and we're like, wow, the pattern for me is that everything sucks. Like nothing turns out. Like I'm working my ass off. I'm trying to be the best

student, the best daughter. You know, I'm working two jobs by the time I'm 15 years old. You know, I don't have as much as my peers have. And so, you know, I'm training devil hard at home when all my friends are on club teams and have trainers. And I'm all by myself in the backyard trying to make this dream work. And then it's like, then my mom's dying and then my dad gets sick. And then he gets arrested. I mean, there's, it was just one thing after another to, I'd say the last year from 17 to 18. It was then every month. I mean, it just continued to get worse. And I really started to question whether or not life was ever going to change, but even if it was worth living. I mean, that if this is, and I would, you know, I, I would have these very long prayers at night with God.

And I would ask, why, why is it the some people have to hurt so much? You know, I'm a high school girl and some of my best friends every Friday night, they're at the mall, you know, they're going out, their boyfriends, none of them have jobs. And they come from these great families. They got a mom and a dad that loves them. Like why, but why does my life have to hurt so much? And always very aware that, you know, we can get to a point where we can turn inwardly and just everything hurts me, me, me. My mom always did a great job of like, there's so much hurt around you. There's so much that people don't have. There's so much always to be grateful for and was always kind of bringing back to that spot. Because I was a typical kid. I would complain all the time. Like, you know,

I always had holes in my shoes. and like, why couldn't we do this or have this or, you know, just it isn't fair and just getting so frustrated. And instead of her, you know, coddling me, like, I know, it's just life is hard. It was just work harder. Like, if you want to go to gymnastics lessons, I can't afford that, go get a job. And this is when I was 12. And I did. And I paid for my own gymnastics. And it was, and that was the pattern. I learned, like, you're going to work in the pain and you're going to look out around you and realize that there is so much hurt in this world and hurt now that I'm adult, I realize it's the hurt that most often binds humans together. That's what we feel

the most connected. Yeah. I connect. I can empathize. I can have compassion with so many people because of my hurt. But I'll tell you what, you stand at the top of a podium. That's one of the most lonely places to be. You know, that's an ice thing. That's an amazing achievement. That's super exciting. And at that time as a teenager, that's all I wanted. I wanted to be a professional soccer player.

I wanted to have my cover on the magazine. I wanted everyone to know me as this badass athlete. My whole life was going to be devoted to that. But everything was crumbling around me and was ruining that. And so I think that, you know, this idea of pain and hurt holding on to hope. I mean, I had to learn that at a really young age. And, you know, realizing with the last conversation that I had with my mom, she was very honest, you know, wasn't, it's, you're going to be okay and just, I love you and you're going to be fine. She said, it's going to be hard.

And I think that that's a really powerful message that we can tell our children or friends, anyone that we love is, I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that life is going to be easy. it's going to be hard, but I want to encourage you that you're strong enough to get through it. Because that's a part of life for all of us. Right. At some point, you know, at some point it's hard. How old were you 18 at this time? Or how old were you? When she died, I was 17.

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or what gave you strength to be who you are? Yeah, you know, my mom was a woman of faith. It was something that I was always curious about. So we were, our family was raised in the church. And the way that my dad talked about God and the way that my mom talked about God were very different. And I felt like my mom had this like, God loves you no matter what.

Like he, his love is unconditional and unconditional love is that when you fail and you make bad mistakes, like love doesn't change. And the thing that was hard for me, though, is that so often in church, they refer to God as, you know, your father in heaven, like the one that loves you. And that was very difficult for me because I thought, well, you know, the dad I have is incredibly disappointed in me and he's harsh and he's cruel and he hurts me. And it's hard to imagine that when I screw up or when things, when so, you know, when so, so many things are hurting in my life,

that that isn't the punishment because of the disappointment that I am. And so I grew up with a very rough view of who God was. Or a father was. Or what a father was. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, if you're referencing the father in heaven, it's like, yeah, your father is not showing much love. So it's like the father undertone is negative.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, so often God is viewed that way that he's just sitting on this throne waiting to strike everyone down. But one of the things that I always felt close to my mom in was this peaceful image of her. Early in the morning, she would always sit with her Bible in this cup of tea in her journal. She loved to write. She loved to read. We had five kids in my family.

Our household was very busy. But she always found peace there. Her peace was in sitting quietly at the feet of Jesus. praying. And then in her last couple months when she was dying, she was always reciting scripture. And I've never, I've been at the bedside of many people who have been dying. And it's hard to sit next to somebody when they don't have hope.

When they are frightened about the end of their life, when it is just darkness and its pain, it's hard to sit and hold someone's hand and let go. And at 17 years old, I was very in tune to the fact that my mom wasn't like that. She had this peace. She knew that she was going to go somewhere better. And she had this incredible hope for us and for the end of her life. Like she was sad about leaving, but she had such a strong faith in God.

And I thought there's no material possession in this world. there's no Zen room, yoga room that I can go to for someone to be at the end of their life and have peace and hope. I want that. Yeah. And that's really how I've lived my life ever since. I can't imagine my life without a faith in Jesus Christ. All my hope, my joy, my strength, that's where it is.

And when I talk about going to a quiet place, when I talk about embracing pain, it's just that place of prayer. I mean, you study Jesus' life and how often in the most painful, intense moments in his life, he went alone in the mountains to pray. And it's understanding that there's one person, there's only one who knows me at my core, and it's the one who created me. and to be able to find strength and peace and hope in that. I mean, that's all I care about. And that's where I find it every single day that I get out of bed. And that's where I had to find it as an 18-year-old. You know, I had a lot of days where I wanted to end my life.

And I would contemplate the ways and how I would do that. And I knew inside, like, that's not what mom would have wanted for me. She would be devastated if I did that. And I really loved my. siblings and my friends. I was still able to kind of think through all of that about in some ways is really selfish if I if I do that. And maybe God does have a plan for me beyond all of this.

I can't see it. I absolutely can't see it. I mean, everything is ripped away. And the book ends at 18. There's a part two, which I'm more than halfway done. But it doesn't stop.

You know, it takes a really long time before things start to change. And so I think, you know, I look back now, you know, as I'm a mom myself. And I realize, like, God doesn't use anything in vain. He uses all of it for good. All of it is used as a foundation as a stepping stone for something else. And his ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. grandest dream that we have for ourselves does not compare to what he has for us. And I can look back at

the dreams I had for myself as a teenager and realize what I'm doing today. Oh my gosh. I could never dream up this life for myself. And so yes, being joyful is being in full recognition of the goodness that God has been in my life and his faithfulness in my life and knowing that everything I do 100% as wholeheartedly is unto him. So I never have to worry about critics. I never have to worry about meeting other people's expectations or the compliments or the criticisms. Like if my whole heart is geared toward God

who knows the number of my days and knows what has given me every good thing in my life has given me this body and the capabilities that I have. That's all I need to keep focus on. And that brings me the greatest joy. And it's a real joy. It's not just the happy smile. It's being joyful for where I've come from and hopeful of where I'm going.

Yeah. I mean, it's powerful for sure. I was thinking back, you know, on those moments where you were, you said you contemplated suicide. It's like, was it your mom not wanting to disappoint your mom? Or it was like, I was thinking about, because people listening to this, everybody, it seems even worse now as far as challenges and mental challenges. You know, just people go through so much these days. What got you through? I mean, you said your mom, you said you'd miss your brother, your family.

but what would you say to somebody who doesn't have like a loving mom that had that foundation in Jesus and what would you tell that person what's how do you give them hope I interact with people like that every day and I I think that is that constant conviction of how I use my platform is this you know running is just the excuse it's right it's literally the shiny object it's the shiny object And I knew that really early on in sports because after my mom passed away, that desire to want to just be, I want to be the best. Like I wanted to be a superstar athlete. And I realized when you lose so much, when you're in a place of hopelessness, it also makes you hyper focus on what is the most important things in your life.

Like what truly matters. and I think when I when I talk people strangers yeah like I don't know what faith background people have I don't know what their story is but yeah I mean I have people that have come to me multiple times I'm struggling with depression with suicide I'm really sick right now or like I'm in such a bad place how like how do you keep going and it's it's a heavy you know it's heavy for me to receive those messages because, you know, my go-to immediately is, like, first of all, like, putting your hope in something that is, like, has roots, something that's solid, something that you can stand on that is far greater than anything that you can find in the world because the grass withers, the flowers fade,

man-made stuff will always fail. You need something stronger and greater than who you are that will unconditionally never ever change. Like unconditional love. I mean, the very definition of that, I mean, it hopes all things, it endures all things, it perseveres, it never, ever fails.

Like, that is what we want. We want that. We want something to never, ever fail. Most people are, they're looking for a life that has meaning. I want to know, I mean, how many times I've sat at the bedside of people dying, they just want to know like did my life matter can you tell like do you remember the days sally

it's like yes like you made an impact you want to be remembered you want to be remembered you want people to say your name and smile and you want to know that like because of me like there's something just a little bit better a little bit brighter in the world and it's such a dismal place to be when you're living you're getting up every day and you're thinking my life has no impact it has no meaning. There's no value. Like nothing I do is great. Like I'm just wandering around in darkness. Like, why should I keep going? And that is a very common and fortunate question that people have today. What is the purpose in all of this? And, you know, on a very personal level, I believe we are all put here for a purpose. A very unique purpose that only you can live out. But you're not going to

know that unless you live. Unless you keep on taking those steps, I can't tell you how your life is going to end or when it's going to end or what are all the shiny beautiful things that might be in your future because there might be a lot more pain. Are you willing to go? If I were to allow you to see to the end of your life and you saw all the horrific things waiting for you, would you continue? I'd say a lot of us would say no, right? But we were built to be strong. We were built with this resiliency. It's not a special trait just for some people.

I mean, there's a reason even in our physical form that well into our aging years, we have the capability to build strength, physically still build strength. I think that's incredible. It is. But when you understand that and that the mind is so much stronger, we're created by a creator who is so powerful. and to think that we were touched by him, that strength is in us.

And if you want to believe that, if you're going to step in that, if you're going to step in faith and believe, I am strong because I was made by a strong creator, it will change your life. Yeah. And so, yeah, I am not, and I think a lot of people are listening to this podcast

will probably be really surprised because I get messages all the time where people are like, are you, do you love Jesus? I'm like, Yeah, if you look closely at everything I write. You know, we talked about this yesterday. I said, I love that Jesus spoke in parables. He didn't come and beat people over the head the way that religious leaders did

and make you feel bad and oppress you and judge you. He went and he sat with people and he had compassion on them. And he told stories that they could all relate to. And I think that's what we're called to do, to sit among people, to not say, to coddle people in their pain, but to sit with them and say, I hurt because you hurt. I feel what you feel. And I'm just going to sit here quietly with you.

And I'm going to remind you that it's not going to last forever, that there is hope and there is joy and there is strength and there is love waiting for you. And you just got to keep on getting out of bed and living in that. That's, you know, and that makes me think that because listening, enduring with somebody, being there for somebody. That's why I think like in the long races, when you share that with somebody, you have that connection.

Yes. Because it's almost, it's like that. It's that parable type connection where, yeah, you've went through something together. And so there's, you know what suffering felt like, you know what overcoming it feels like, and you did it together. It's one reason, I mean, that's one reason why me and Roy

had such a big connection, because we went through so much together, and so much challenge, it's like you can never have that type of connection with anyone else unless you do something similar. So when I go train or do the races or do a hard hunt with somebody, it's like there's something different about it. And it's because of the example you just outlined. Yeah, I love that. And I, every time you talked about Roy, I mean, there's just this look in your eyes that changes. And it comes out so clearly in your book.

And you guys truly had a beautiful friendship. When you think of like David and Jonathan in the Bible, like they just, these friends that loved each other and would take their own life for each other, you know, would stand in front of each other to defend. And I, that's rare and that's a gift. And I know how much you miss him. But when you do talk about those stories,

some really rough stuff. Like when you were breaking down for me what it takes to kill an animal, bring it out 10, 12 miles. I was blown away because I had no idea. Massive respect. I mean, the endurance that you need, the endurance and strength that you need to do that. But when you find someone who's willing to stand alongside you

in conditions that are cold and harsh, when you're tired and you realize you're like, yeah, there's not a lot of people out here. Right. There's not a lot of people that are going to go to this place with me. It's really special, I think, at the end of our life to know that if you could be that one person for one person, your life is so full. Yeah. You know, no one knew my mom.

There's no social media. She was a little more introvert, a little bit more quieter. You know, she had her own little circle of friends. But what I realize, especially as I'm writing the book and just how I live my life today is because of her. that that example that she was to me those words that she ran in me that the call to live your life and faith and I realize you know I look at my analytics you know for social media is like I'm hitting over a million of accounts you know regularly you know you're interacting with over a million people really and I think about how that domino effect from my mom I'm like mom because you lived

this way because you spoke truthfully and in love up until the day you died, look at all these people that you impacted. And it's like, I've never forgotten that, but I've always thought, that's a life. That's a life that I want to live. At the end of my life, I can't take all these buckles with me. I, like, please don't bring my buckles to me when I'm on my deathbed. And I don't want to talk about my buckles. I want the people that I love surrounding me.

and I want to look into their eyes and know that they were loved and they knew that they were loved and that they will remember that long after I'm gone. You know, if I can impact somebody's life to keep living or to be braver or to be courageous or to live authentically to really believe in themselves that my life has purpose and I am going to go after it, oh man, that's, that brings me the greatest joy. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's what matters for sure. You have a story that you've told about, I think your mom was very sick, and then I think you had a soccer game in the rain or something if she showed up.

Tell me that story. Yeah, it's called Standing in the Rain. It's one of my favorite stories, one of the most vivid memories, I'd say, from my childhood. And my mom was my supporter for as long as I remember, anything else was, you know, the gymnastics soccer running, she was always there. And I could always hear her voice cheering for me. When she started to get really sick, I mean, this is, this story takes place less than 12 weeks before she died.

So she's, you know, weekly doctor visits, the chemo, her body is just falling apart. Yeah. I, you know, just kind of train myself to not look at the sidelines anymore. And it was hard. I was going to, she couldn't go. She couldn't be there. Yeah. Two week.

Yeah, and you know, your soccer team is such a team sport. You know, you know everyone's mom, you know everyone's parents. You know, they all know all the kids on the team. Like, it's a team sport even for the parents. It's just fun being on the sidelines cheering. And I remember this day in February in Southern California. We don't get a lot of rain. But my mom loved it when it would rain.

She had this thing. She'd always bake whenever it would rain. And so the sky got gray and we were riding on the bus to the field. and I remember the energy was really high because we're like, gives me so muddy, like we're going to have so much fun out there. Like, we were excited for the rain.

And, you know, you start seeing parents walking in the parking lot and kids are open up the windows and hollering at their parents. I just remember this kind of slow motion moment where the world kind of moves slowly in the fact that I'm watching all my teammates, all my girlfriends saying hi to their parents

and wanting so much to just cry. You know, like my mom isn't here. And at this time of my life, I still was very reluctant to believe that she was going to die. And so I'm holding on to this idea of like, like, she's hurting so much. She's not here. They're telling me that she's going to pass away. I don't want to believe that she's pass away. And I can't let this image be what's going to be permanent for me soon.

And so I'm having this wrestling. I get down into the parking lot and I say, oh, I need to go to the bathroom. and I kind of let out a few tears. And I had this thing the day my mom told us that we had cancer, I never cried. And I told her I'm going to be strong for like, I'm not going to cry. And so the rain starts coming down really hard. I ran out to my teammates were like halfway into the game.

I was mud everywhere. And I was a striker. I loved to score a lot. And at the half line, I beat their last defender. And I'm like going down a long length of the field by myself with the ball. It's just pretty much me going to the goalie. And before I get to the 18-yard box, I catch a glimpse. I can see next to the goal line a figure that looks like it's wearing my mom's jacket

and looks like her. And so it's a distraction as I'm now shooting the ball. And the ball goes sailing over the goal line. And I turn, I immediately face her, and it's her standing beneath this, umbrella and she just she looks so gone you know her eyes are sunken into her head and she has this faint smile and else good job sally and i run over to her and you know the rain's coming down hard i'm like what are you doing and she just says i i just wanted i wanted to see you play like you're doing so awesome and and i grab her hands and it's like you just notice every piece of her is wasted you know

her hands are smaller and they're freezing and I know how sick she is. I'm like, Mom, like, thank you so much for coming out. Like, are you okay? And she just, you know, how all moms do. Like, they just, I'm fine. Like, I'm good. You're doing awesome.

You're making me cry. And I give her a hug and it's like I, my face meets her wig. And I get so angry. You know, I get angry in that moment just realizing like I'm hugging this frail body and it's her wig and it's this. moment of this is the last time. This is it. It's the last time she's going to see me play.

And kind of straighten myself up and like, don't cry. Like be so joyful in this moment. So I hug her and I look at her and it's, and all of this isn't a matter of like 60 seconds because like the goalies run in to get the ball. They got to put it back in. The coach is hollering like, get back, you know. And so I run away from her and the rain's really coming down really hard.

and I remember just praising God in that moment because I just lost it. And I was like, I'm so grateful for the rain because no one can tell the difference between my tears and that rain. And I turn and face her and she's just standing tall, the biggest smile. And I thought, here's someone that's at the end of their life

in the greatest physical pain. So much pain. She was taking so many meds at night just to be able to sleep, you know? And the pain, The cancer at this point, it was around her brain. It got in all into her organs. It was in her bone marrow.

It was everywhere. And she's standing in this uncomfortable weather because she loves me. And she wants to support me and encourage me that one last time. Now, I'll just never forget that. And sometimes that's the image that pops up. Yeah. When I'm in this very structured pain in a race. Right.

You know, you think this is hard. I signed up for that. Yeah. You know, when I talk about, like, dude, my feet were so trashed at coconut or like, I was like, had nothing left at Lake Tahoe. Like, I'm, you know, got bronchitis. My feet are ripped up. My body's on fire. Like, I'm moving.

I signed up for that. Yeah. She didn't sign up for that. And for her, she knew that the finish line for her was the end of life and leaving five children behind. Yeah. And I think that's, that's a. strength that I want. Right.

You know? And I had written a poem in the book about it. And one of the last lines of the poem, it talks about how Mama New Strength is not something that's physical. It's not something we display to the world. You know, it's inside. It's the choices that we make. It's what we choose to do and who we choose to be.

That's the most powerful strength of all. And that's the strength that I, you know, that I hope to always. always show other people. Because obviously, like, as a professional athlete, like I lift, I run, like, people say stuff about my body every day. Right. And I think at times you can come off as being someone that's untouchable or someone that's unrelatable because of that.

But I always like to bring it back to, like, the physical body will always go first. And then we have seen physical bodies just waste away. But how incredible to see how powerful we genuinely are when there's nothing left in the physical body. Yeah, and that human spirit. That's what, I think that's the most important thing. Yeah, I mean, what, it is, that's incredible.

But yeah, nothing would give you more perspective than that, you know, and that image that you hold of your mom. Yeah. It's, that's, I mean, that's a powerful one. It impacts me too. I mean, when you're saying, I feel like getting choked up listening to you tell that story. And it's, but I think about like the races, the tough races you've had. And I think about so many people would have pulled the plug on those races.

Yeah. You know, and just that I wasn't, you know, your feet torn up at mile six or whatever that was at Cochadona. And at least for sure at mile 30 and you still had over 200 miles left and you still push through. And then being sick in the other one, that would have been enough for most people to say, yeah, I mean, I got sick, I can't. There's no way I can push my body through this. But despite that, you did push through. And it's like, that's, you know, it separates you. And it's like, you think that do you really have to have that painful of a childhood to be that tough?

You know what I mean? So at times, at times you could cuss your circumstances or your upbringing. But then also we have grown from those experiences. And now you, so I feel like you put a lot of pressure on yourself to be tough and to be, I don't know how to, not, I guess a role model for some people just to be, you know, you watch the films and you hear your words and it does inspire people. And it's like it's incredible what your example, but. Is it, I don't know, I mean, do you feel pressure also to be that tough?

I don't feel pressure. I genuinely enjoy what I do. I think the, like I had said earlier, my first step into Ultra was out of curiosity, very, very curious of, wow, this is amazing what our bodies can do. Yeah. And so on one hand, it's, I wonder if I can push through this. Like I wonder if it is actually possible. So there is a very personal side to it.

But I also believe that we are, the further we go, the stronger we get, you know, the more reps, the stronger we get. What I was able to do, you know, 10 years, like, I can't, 10 years ago, I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing today. Right. And so there is a bit of a fascination with that. Like, wow, like, what else are we able to do? But I don't feel pressure. I think I've failed so much in my life to know that I'm okay with failure.

I'm okay with missing the mark. I'm okay with not being impressive. And there's something very freeing about that. You know, last year when I did the True Strong project, I had a friend that actually reached out that he said the same thing. He's like, Sally, dude, this project sounds like super insane

and you're going to like trash your body. Like, I hope that you don't feel like, you have to finish it. I hope that you feel like that if something goes wrong, like that you're going to take care of yourself. And I was like 100%. I do feel like that. I do feel like that I can be in a space where,

yeah, this isn't a good idea. But I also feel like it's a great gift to be able to see what I'm capable of doing. And I think my standard for my life is, does this glorify God? And if I'm always looking to glorify God and I don't care about what people think of me, I don't care about whether or not they're going to vote that I'm the best at this or that or if they're going to compliment me.

And even at the same time, like, if I really don't care about what the critics say, then it does allow me to push a little bit harder because it's a very singular focus for me. I don't do this to impress people. I don't do this because I'm going to get anything from, from anybody, but it is pretty awesome to display the strength that is inside us if we believe. So. Yeah, I mean, and now knowing what you've already overcome, you know, not just last year, but then this year is, I guess it is pretty remarkable.

It's like, what is the limit? Where is your limit? Like, how exciting is that? I know. I mean, I, and I think, like, it's really amazing. and motivating to live life like that. Like what is possible? Because I don't think we've really tapped into that completely.

I think more and more we're seeing like more boundaries are being like pushed out. Like more things are being broken. Like it is really neat to see people in all sports, in all things. Like wait a minute. Like we're not operating in full capacity of what we think. Like 50 years. I mean, you think all the way back to the guy that broke the, what was the four minute mile in the beginning?

It's like, you're going to die. And I think, yeah, I'm definitely in that space where people are like, dude, you're so unhealthy. Like, this is like not a good idea. And, you know, you're always going to get people like that. But I'm like, but haven't we always been saying that for all of time? Like, that's not possible. That's not possible. I don't think so.

It used to be if you ran a marathon, you needed six months to each other. Yes. Yeah. Yes, I do know this. Because I, when I got coaching certifications way back over a decade ago for running, they said well I think beyond that one was for every mile you run you need to take a full day of no running and I was like what like a month off for zero running for a month after you run a marathon I'm like what about a hundred you know like that's that's crazy yeah yeah yeah so there was those old held

beliefs and now here you are running multiple two hundreds in a year and it's like so yeah what is the limit and obviously different people have different limits But when you train your body up and your mind is so strong and then you have this purpose that you have and then you have strength from, you know, your faith, it's like, what is the limit? Yeah. I mean, that's, that is exciting. That is, that is fun because we haven't, I mean, you know, I felt pretty bad in races. I've never died.

Exactly. I mean, I've never pushed out. Yeah. I've never even passed out. I've never even whatever. So it's like, it is exciting to think, God, am I just? are we just still at the surface of what's possible? Yeah.

I mean, it feels like, you know, you're getting everything, but then you, the next day, as you said, it's like, man, or even two hours after race, it's like, God, that wasn't that bad. Yep. I agree. So, God, what can we do? Yeah. That's what so.

We keep pushing. But I think I love to touch back on what you were saying earlier, too, because I think you can identify this, and especially a lot of things that you've been through. people you know when we put out like these these hard physical um endeavors that we do you know people say all that it's like you know you can do it because of this and this and this like i i think we all want control and calculations and we want like the right equation we want it to make sense in order to keep moving forward and it's like or people want to put you in a box oh you're this this

and this. Okay, well, then that means you're this. I push so hard against that, like, in every way. I mean, even when people are like, what's your Enagram number? And I'm like, nope. What's that? The Enagram? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's like the personality. You have a number. Oh, yeah. Okay. And it's like the, like if you're a one, then you're this. If you're eight, you're this. And they're this. It's almost like horoscope. Yeah. Way more scientific, though. I know it helps a lot of people. I'm not bashing it. But my prideful side comes in and just says, Don't put me in a box. Yeah.

Don't say that just because I'm that number or because I'm that horoscope that you have me figured out because you don't. And it's like that for every human. You are too vast and too wondrous. There's so much about you that's that's so deep. It's going to take your entire lifetime to discover who you are, what you're capable of, and all the different variables that make you unique. And I think that is the most exciting thing.

But the only thing you're going to discover that is if you live it for yourself and stop listening to critics, that are trying to dictate what you can and can't do, and you just go and see about it yourself. But when it comes to enduring in races, and I think, you know, people see you like, oh my gosh, like you pushed you out with your feet, like, I've dropped out for one blister,

and then they kind of turn inward, and they're like, they feel ashamed or upset or lame or weak, and I'm like, no, no, no, no. That's not the point of sharing that with you. If I show you something that I was able to overcome or something that was cool that I was able to accomplish. It's not to belittle you. It's not to oppress you or to make you feel like you're smaller than me

because I am equal to you. You know, we all have our strengths. We have our weaknesses. But we're at different points in our journey. And that's all you got to, that's all that you have to appreciate. You don't know what's down the road for you. Right. And you don't actually know what you're capable of yet.

Right. So the reality is that, yeah, I started very young. enduring some pretty intense physical discomfort, emotional, all the way through. And that has been very routine in my life. So for me, when I think about physical pain, like I operate very differently with physical pain than other people do. But there's been years and years and years and years. There's a foundation there.

And I think that when you approach anything that's difficult, difficult, a task, or a goal, you have to appreciate the foundation that you're building. So no one wants to build the foundation. Right. You think about this in running. The aerobic base is your biggest base. It's the biggest part of an athlete that you built. It takes the longest, too.

It is the most beneficial, but it is in which you stand on. It is your starting point. And the larger your aerobic capacity, the more you're able to handle more intense workouts. But if your aerobic capacity is small and you go, right into a tense workouts, that's how you get injured. That's how you break. And it's hard to grow from that. And I think sometimes we look around at what other people are doing and we forget where we

are in our own journey. And so I always encourage people, we all interact with pain in a different way. And we all are at a different starting point. So start where you are and build from there. And guess what? It might mean that you DNF, 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 10. times before you get to the finish line of 100, but don't give up until you do. Yeah.

And that is going to be all part of your foundation, all part of your story. And the cool thing is, is that not one of those DNFs are in vain. Right. Every failure, every setback, it serves a purpose. And I think that that is a much better way to approach things that are hard in our life. Or when you see other people do other stuff, it's like, that is awesome that humans can do that. And that's always the ending message that I give after Cocayona, after Lake Tahoe. I always say, it is amazing what we can do. My performances have not been spectacular. There's

nothing like athletically that's like, dude, damn, could pay Sally. It's like, all right, you got to the finish line, like struggling. But it's like how awesome what we can overcome, what we can grow from, how strong we are, like what we're capable of doing. All right. Now take whatever it is that you saw from this and apply it to your life at the starting point that you're at, at wherever you are in your journey. I think that perspective is tough, especially in this day of social media. People, who doesn't want a hundred mile buckle? Oh my, it's like everyone's going to Leadville as far as I know.

Yeah, yeah. That's the race right now. It's like, so you said, you said don't bring buckles to your funeral. And, you know, people who don't run ultras might not know what that means, but you do a 100 mile race or a 200 mile race, you finished within the time frame that's required, you get a buckle, right? And that's like an Olympic gold medal to an ultra runner. It's amazing. So people who doesn't want to say they did 100 miles, everybody wants to say that because when I, well, I know when I first did it, it was like, oh, you're the guy who ran 100 miles. You know,

so it's like you're, this is a thing you're known as. But without that base, as you mentioned, it's tough to get there. You have to go through. I mean, I've had plenty of disappointments up until when I could run 100 miles, right? And so of you and I'm not near the success you've been in ultra running, but still I had to go through it. But and I know that's another thing is I think Strava, I'm not even on Strava, but I know like the comparison part that people struggle with. And it's like you see this, your favorite runner and they're running this, these many miles, this much vertical, this much. much pace and it's just like, no, you got to understand. They've been doing this for who knows how long. Exactly. Or maybe they're, you know, we all have different ability. Maybe their ability was a little

higher than where we started. That doesn't mean we're not going to finish higher or or even, but it all weighs in. And so we see all these things and they're, well, if they're running 120 miles a week, why can't I? Well, because you've been running 20 miles a week. So you can't go from 20 to 120. But yeah, I think that point that you make about, you know, we all have, whether there's DNFs or these, you know, these struggles that we have to overcome, it's all part of it. And it's not in vain, but it's all required. Absolutely. You know, these steps are required to get to this in goal. Yeah. And I think, too, you and I talked a lot about this. I mean, we talked about critics because we never short on critics over here. But comparison, I know there's that phrase.

comparisons is the thief of joy. And we probably say it so much that we actually forget about genuinely what it means. It's like cliche almost. Yeah. It's like I don't even think about it anymore. You don't. But it is pretty incredible. If you are at a point of struggle in your life, or you're really down on yourself. You're looking at like, dude, I just, I'm so overwhelmed. It's like get off your phone. Like close those social media apps and actually think about the steps that you have planned for yourself. What steps are you planning? to change the life that you're in. Because if you keep looking to your right and your left,

you know what we call that is distraction. Right. And distraction is one of the greatest thieves of you achieving your goal. It is the best way to get you off track, and it's the best way to frustrate you and to make you bitter and to turn inward and just be upset all the time. But when you are laser-focused on the path before you,

I mean, I think about, I have so much respect for what you do. you trying to get me to focus on that little balloon today, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But just all the little things that I had to do before I even lift the bow. Mm-hmm. It's so technical. And I had told you a couple times, I was like, Cam, this is like so peaceful for me.

Mm-hmm. Because I literally cannot give way or give attention to anything else. I mean, I did not, like, I was off my phone this entire trip. Right. because I was so focused on like, okay, I need to learn the technique on this bow, like where my elbow is and like, okay, the string needs to touch the tip of my toes and like just everything. And I think that.

Oh, God, that's a stupid timer already. Your ability to be laser focused on one thing is also why you're the best hunter in the world. But it's such a simple. thing. We don't talk very much about focus. We don't talk about wisdom and patience. I mean, those things aren't sexy. Like wisdom, patience and focus. Like, come on. Like, I want strong and perseverance in enduring, right? But it's like, fancy car. Yeah, like, you want like the sexy heart. Yeah. You want that stuff. But oh my gosh, the only way I was able to hit that balloon today, I had to be all in focus on this little teeny tiny dot. Yeah. And I just feel like if, if you are a point in

frustration, pause, turn off your distractions and ask yourself, what am I focusing on? Am I focusing on the pain and everything that's not going right? Am I focusing on what she has and what he has and that I don't have and all the, you know, and just, I'm just in this darkness and this dismal spot? Or am I actually focusing on where I want to go? On the goal. On the goal. Yeah.

The goal was a balloon. Yeah. But you can't get to that balloon, break that balloon without all the other stuff. All the other stuff. But yeah, that's distractions. not going to make it happen. And the distance you shot the balloon out was it hard, very hard. You had to do everything perfect. And as you said, it required intense focus. And you did it. It was amazing. You did say right there you said you had to have the string on the tip of your toes.

So that would make it tougher. It was a tip of your nose. So the toes would have been difficult. So I'm still getting the reps down. Still getting all the technical farts down. Yeah. There's no toes involved. No, but I mean, it was amazing. I mean, we were so happy when you hit that. Because you were around that, you know, we're trying. Let's just be honest, Cam. Like, no, there's no pride in my shooting abilities. I have very bad hand-out coordination naturally. So it took be like 60, 60 arrows to get that thing. But hey, your endurance training paid off. Yes. You know, because most people couldn't have shot 60 times and still been accurate. So look, all that hard work in the gym being jacked and not quitting, not quitting in those 200s paid off today.

And having an incredible coach. Like you are so patient with me. I don't know about that. But thank you. It's, uh, I, you know, it sucks. You have to get to the airport. I know. This podcast.

I told you. I said, Cam, I never only podcast for an hour. It's two hours. So we just need a part two. Yeah, we do. And we, yeah, if we could hit that balloon a little sooner, we'd have a little more time. Right. Okay.

There it is, guys. There it is. But no, hey, we have unfinished business to do now. So now, what else did we want to do? I think we had something else we were going to knock off. We wanted to do a longer run that, I mean, next time it won't come like seven days after a 200-mile race. Right, exactly. But even so, I mean, we're able to share that.

The rock. I told you, I want to carry the rock. Yeah, yeah. We're going to do that. I'm going to train to do that. Because you said, you pitched it up. You said, oh, I could do this. No problem.

And then you and Tanner were looking at me with this look on your face, like, Oh, that's so cute. No. Maybe you can. Maybe you can. But how great was the whole lift front shoot? Because I'm thankful that Taylor got to join us yesterday. You know, and he's just off of the crazy mountain 100.

He had a rough race there. He's a sweetheart. Yeah, he's so tough, too. I mean, we, I love training with him. We don't get to run as often as we'd like because we're always just doing different things, different schedules. But when we do get in the mountains, it's so special. So I was very thankful that we got to all share that.

That was super cool. Nice grind yesterday. Our run was awesome. I mean, it was like a solid climb. Yeah. It was perfect. I mean, that was definitely like my kind of run. But we got to experience beauty, incredible conversation, little lift, little podcasting.

But we're going to do that again. We are. Yeah. Yeah, we have to revisit this. But I want to thank you so much for coming. It's, I mean, it was, you know, I've been following you. you for a long time, respect you so much. Likewise.

Your story is, it's, you know, heart-wrenching on one hand and inspiring on another. I just appreciate you so much, Sally. Yeah, I'm very thankful for you. Well, I'm very thankful for you. I thank you for all that you stand for. Thank you for standing in goodness and truth and continuing on as you do and just being that light and that example because, man, I feel so. So grateful to call you friend.

Likewise. And how I finish this is I always give somebody the outlier. So these are outliers that come on my show. He's giving me a baby bow kick. Why just say we need to let people know. I've been shooting this thing for the past few days.

And then he brings his bow out. And I'm like, I have a baby bow. No, this would kill. This would kill. Right. But you let me shoot your bow. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Cam had to help me pull it back. You were so gracious, be like, yeah, go ahead and pull it back. I don't think I got half an inch. Is it unreal how heavy it is? It's just, you know, you get used to it. I don't know. You'll shoot this. Fucking strong to pull that thing back.

I mean, your body gets used to what you ask of it, right? We've learned that in life. So you just haven't asked your body to pull bow back. Yeah. But when you do, it's going to be shooting my bow in no time. But you shot my bow. I got to shoot your bow. Yeah, it was fun.

Like, I really wanted to shoot Cam's bow. It was fun. But here's your own bow. You're going to, we'll send this down to you. You're going to practice. Yeah, there's a range not far from my house. And so I'm definitely going to practice. I really loved this.

I love being in that line of focus. Wow. And I'm going to come down and run Baldi with you, too. Heck yeah. There we go. There's part two coming. Yes. All right, guys.

Thanks for listening. Thank you, Sal. Thank you, Kim. Much love. Thank you. Keep hammering. One of the favorite packages that I get on a monthly basis is the Black Rifle Coffee Club

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