Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 040 - Chase Rice

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

Join us for a discussion with Chase Rice, a country music artist focused on finding himself, hunting and fitness. Listen in as Chase shares his experiences and insights from the country music industry and his latest album, “I Hate Cowboys & All Dogs Go To Hell.” Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Chase Rice Links: https://www.instagram.com/chaserice/  https://www.chaserice.com/    Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code Cam for 15% off  Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv  Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first Order Groove Life: https://www.groovelife.com Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Go Ruck: https://www.goruck.com use code CAM for 10% off  Breeo: https://breeo.co  Timestamps: 0:00:00  Intro 0:01:41  Chase’s Journey in Music 0:05:19  The Story Behind the Song “Bench Seat” 0:08:46  Social Media & Fame 0:12:12  Strategy Behind Writing Songs 0:14:52  Who is Chase Rice? 0:17:52  When Chase Started Hunting 0:22:53  Love of the Grind 0:30:28  What Brings Satisfaction 0:36:58  You and 85: Dad’s Legacy 0:45:19  The Mentality of Not Quitting 0:47:36  Who Influenced Chase’s Music 0:54:20  Road Trips and Tour Buses 0:57:01  Crowds: Who Draws the Most Attention? 01:07:31  Mixing Genres in Music 01:14:11  The Forrest Gump of Country Music 01:18:42  Cam’s Road to Success 01:21:17  You Won’t Always Be A Priority 01:24:50  Where Chase’sIdeas Come From 01:27:58  Entertainer of the Year 01:35:28  Outro  

Today's podcast sponsor is Santa Cruz Medicinals, and it's a company I'm proud to talk about because I've been using their CBD products for years. We use a CBD beef tallow to cook our elk steaks, and their CBD cream is one of the best things I've used post-run to help ease the pain of my muscles. They make an array of potent CBD formulas. To be effective, CBD has to be dose properly in Santa Cruz Medicinals has those potent dosages. They make CBD deep sleep caps, pain creams, magnesium, beef tallow, which can be used as a moisturizer or for cooking, MCT oil, and more. Check them out at SCMedicinals.com and use the code Keep Hammering for 15% off and free shipping in the USA.

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment, hate that, makes my field talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. Well, we've got the Keep Hammering Collective with Chase Rice. How are you doing? I'm good, man. You pushed me harder today than I've pushed myself in quite a while.

Yeah? We'll get into that. But, man, it's been a fun day. Oh, it's been great. It's been a blast. It's been, I mean, I don't know. I think I first met you. I guess you were here out there at Sweet Home.

At the jamboree, I think it's... Kenny Rogers. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. God, that was before he died. We got a picture of us three. You mean, Kenny Rogers.

I know. That was crazy. But yeah, I went out there to... We shot bows, I think. Uh-huh. You brought me to the Hoyt. Yep. And that was...

I hadn't killed a bull yet at that point. Okay. So I was just kind of getting into the bow hunting. And now you've stacked them up. I've got four or five with the bow now. I need to figure that out. but a couple of them I got lucky. I tried to screw it up, but, and then last year was the first one I lost.

I hit it twice, but that was, I heard about you through my hunting buddies, Stan and a couple of the guys that I go with a lot. And it's like, oh, man, and then all of a sudden, we started following each other on social media and it's like, man, and then you came to that show. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, it's been fun to see your journey grow. a lot too it's been awesome man well i've been a fan of your music i mean we were talking earlier today but um jack daniels and jesus is still one of my that song to me is like i mean it's just powerful yeah and you know you you know anytime you talk about your dad like kind of you know my dad died too and he died in 2010 so it's like there's always i'm always listening a little more yeah intently

my dad was 08 I mentioned Casey we talked about Casey earlier like I didn't actually punch Casey in the face he would hit me back for sure yeah pop outside I got my dog Jack here

he thanks for letting me include him all day but yeah of course yeah man it's uh it's been a wild journey for me like Jack Daniels and Jesus Carolina can song called look at my truck a couple songs here and there

I look at and I'm like okay I had it in me I had the reel in me the whole time and I look at it too I'm like sometimes I get my own head. I'm like, man, why? Why do I have this persona about me and my music? And then I look at the rest of my music. I'm like, well, like we've talked a lot today is because I was chasing something. Yeah. I wasn't being myself. I was just, I was chasing Florida Georgia line or Sam

Hunt or like they were great because they were themselves. Yeah. And I was just chasing that, trying to figure out who I was as an artist. And I look back, I'm not hard of myself, but I recognize that I wasn't being me. And that's all led to, you could see it with songs like Jack Danielson, Jesus. Yeah, I had it in me. And I was just, I didn't, I always thought like, oh, I'll do that down the road.

And now I'm in that mode of everything I write now is like, no, this is me now. So this latest album, you feel strong about that? It's who you are. Yeah. Yeah. And they say it's a 10-year town in Nashville. But it's kind of true.

For me, it took 10 years. I didn't learn to play guitar. until I was 21. So it took me 10 years of writing, even though I said almost the worst thing that could happen for you was I was having success at something that wasn't me. Yeah. And I think that catches up to you for sure because people can see through the facade. Because you started as a writer. Did you or? Okay. But I wasn't as good as the success that I had. Like Cruz was, we got lucky that day. Think so? Yeah. I mean, we were good. We were doing our thing. We figured out our thing. Yeah.

But Cruz was just lightning in a bottle. Right. And then I kept chasing that lightning and it just, I shouldn't have. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't know then. Right. So.

Did it put pressure on you? Because when you wrote that one so early on, then did it put pressure? You know, like, people were like, okay, let's. Yeah. I mean, was that hard to live up to them? Everybody wanted to write Cruz again. I wanted to write Cruz again. Yeah.

Of course. A different version of that, just not as successful. You know, it had success. Yeah. But I made a lot of enemies too, just kind of giving the finger to the business and the industry and thinking that I didn't need anybody. Yeah. And the reality is I wasn't as good as I thought I was. And you can't be not as good as, like in fighting or in-

It's a tough business. In sports in general, you can be the best. And people may hate you, but that doesn't stop you from winning. From winning. Yeah. In music, you have to be liked. Right. So it's been fun to grow into this person that's like, that's not mad at the world,

that understands the industry still got a lot of bullshit, but I can't control that. All I can control is making the best music possible. And I've got a great producer around me now that helped me make this new record that has a song called Ben C. That's like my favorite song I've ever put out. It's about a dog. And the true story about that was my best friend in the world, a college roommate, he put his 45 to his head and was just done with it. And the reason he didn't ultimately shoot himself was his dog walked up to him and put his head on his lap as he's finger on

the trigger. Oh my God. And he comes to my house and kind of explains that to me. I was like, damn, okay, I knew you were going through something, but I didn't know you were going through that. Yeah. So he got the help he needed. And then fast forward a couple years. We're sitting around a fire at my farm in Tennessee. And he was like, bro, he was doing a lot better. I'm like, okay, my friend's back. And now he's really back. He just got married.

He's got a little girl on the way. But I was like, dude, you should write a song about a guy driving around and struck with this dog. I'm like, on this new record, trying to avoid that cliche. Yeah. Of anything cliche in country music. That's been done a million times. I told you about the video.

Check that out at some point. It's, I kind of wanted to go there with, for whatever reason, I had the idea in my head of the day I wrote the song. I kind of wanted to show what would happen if you'd go through with it in the struggle of depression and this was a drug overdose in the music video. And I don't know, I've just had a lot of real stuff happen in my life, a lot self-induced, but that led to depression and all that. And I wanted to hammer on that in this album and that song.

And stuff like that has come up on this album that I would have never touched before. It's feeling. Yeah, it's real. Yeah. And as you said, like, for a while, country music was about, you know, girls and beer and trucks. Dirt roads.

You know, it's like it probably always will be, but the songs that hit the hardest are the ones that are real. And, like, that you're explaining now. Yeah, and that's a hard song to, I have to sing. I thought it would be like, okay, I didn't know what happened on this album, but it's a change in my life.

And it very interesting well. but I thought that'd be like maybe sing that song on special occasions like if I play the rhyme in or something now I play it every night I have to I bring Jack out on the stage I have a black lab in the video is mine But the reason I say this album's changed in my life is because It's weird because now I finally have some industry Recognition yeah, I'm a CMA you know winning some video stuff for for Ben C's see It's almost like the, I'm not sure people trust me though. I'm not sure people trust it yet because. Still, they're skeptical or what?

Probably. And I don't blame anybody. It's like, this is so different than what he's done. Why is it real? Which is the real chase. That's the problem. And that's on me that I didn't show that before. Of course.

But I, it's a wild, wild west in music. It's like we were talking about jelly roll earlier. Like just blowing up. Yeah. Yeah. Zach Brian out of nowhere. longed out. And I think it's just authentic. People just want authentic. And that's cool to see that working. And if it works for me, great. If it doesn't, and I don't get whatever I need to become a

huge artist, I wouldn't change anything now. So it doesn't matter. It's like, I know the formula now. I think it's a good time to like take control yourself, you know, and feel like because with social media, the guys you just mentioned, they blew up because of social media. You know, Zach Bryant's like, you know, a few years ago. Yeah. Nobody hardly even knew him. He was in the Navy, you know. And making YouTube videos.

Yeah. And then jelly roll we saw where, you know, it blew up maybe during COVID. And then, you know, there's some other artists that maybe not, might not even be signed, but people, they got, you know, half million followers. Yeah. And it's just from social media. It's crazy. It's time. And at first I wanted to resist.

I started hating social media. And I think there's a lot of BS on there. Like, of course. I try to not make anything negative because there's just too much of it. Plenty of that. Plenty of that. And just people talking shit. This was in your book and you just hammered it so perfectly.

Like, if, have a conversation with somebody. Yeah. Stop talking shit on social media on people who are doing great at what they do. Yeah. Like, there's just jealousy. I don't know. But now I've come to the realization, like this is a, perfect way to directly get your stuff your message out your message out and and nobody's censoring that right

which is awesome yeah no there's a lot of there's a lot of shit with it but there's a lot of benefit too yeah and it's uh you know i mean it's a weird way it's uh just trying to block out i don't know i mean i'm not inspired by negative people i'm inspired by outliers by winners yeah and so this show this my whole lift run shoot thing in this podcast is just as I told you earlier it's like an excuse for me to get somebody to train with because normally I'm training by myself so I'm like well I can make it pretend like we're going to do a show really I'm just got a workout partner and I can just hopefully learn from them on how they have got to the top you know it's like you it's like I learn all these valuable lessons about what you've learned along the way and and we share it

maybe we help others, you know? And so it's not about talking shit about other people. It's about no. It's like, hey, we're fucking, we're trying to win. Yeah. How do we do it? And the biggest thing I've found lately is, you know, when it was FGL, then it was Sam Hunt, then it was Luke Combs.

Right now it's Morgan or Zach or whoever. There's a while there. It's like, all right, how do I get that? It's like, well, that's going to fuck you right there. Yeah. How do I get that? You can't. They got it.

It's theirs. Right. And now I see success with all these guys. I'm like, good for them. I'm happy for them. Like, if I'm looking at that being jealous, all it's doing is taking away, like, that's hurting me. So I try to just be happy for everybody.

At the same time, you're competitive and you want to kick ass. But the way that I kick ass that I'm learning now is like, just focus on me, first of all, it's all I can control and then focus on great music. You have to have great songs. And I, for the longest time, I believed, my own bullshit, I think, of thinking that I was better than I was.

And that's been a hard lesson to learn, but I'm glad I learned it. And now it's just like, no, this album was the very best that I could possibly do. And it's good. And now we're just going to keep getting better. I don't know how one writes a song, but like, do you think if you were trying, would you come up with a hook and then try to build a song around it? Is that what you were doing? And now you're more like on the story?

Dude, yeah, I mean, I have a song called Party Up that some people still want to hear live. I'm like, you're never going to hear that live. It's terrible. But it was me just trying to make a version of a Florida Georgia Line song. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it turned a party up,

drink the good times down, it's saying nothing. I don't even know what the fuck it's about. It's about parting. You had that part, and then you were trying to build around it maybe? Party up, up, up, up. It's like, you're saying nothing, bro. So that was how I was writing songs before.

There was a lot of melody in my head of what I wanted to, how I wanted to write songs, melody, melody, melody, repetitive, all this stuff. Now it's, Ben C. was like, damn. I mean, I had to sit down and grind on that one. I was falling half the time I'm writing the song. Yeah. Because I just kept thinking about, like, what if you wasn't here? Everybody, yeah.

It'd be devastating. Thank God he is still here. But that was a grind. That was a seven, eight hour, me trying to tell a story and piecing it together. Okay, this doesn't even make sense. How do I make this part connect to this part? And then at the end, it's almost like realize, if you really listen to the song, you realize, damn, this has been from the dog's perspective the whole time and I didn't even know it.

Yeah. So that was a hard one. Some of them were fun. Like Oklahoma, walked that easy. And Good Night Nancy. We wrote in Alabama right outside where the Florida is. And it wasn't that much of a grind. It was just four or five guys hanging out in a house, having fun writing three songs.

Yeah. And then we cut all three of them. Usually you write like five or six. It's like, okay, which one are we going to do? All three of them were good. Let's do them all. Yeah. And I wrote them with my producer who's, he's a very, very smart guy.

And he's smarter. He's better than me in the studio. And every producer I've ever had has been better than me. The problem was I was pushing the other guys to do this or do that. That wasn't necessarily them. And Oscar, I can't do that with him. I understand what he is. And he'll say something.

I'll try to do something, maybe sneak back into some old ways. He's like, we're not fucking doing that, man. Like, my bad. Yeah. Well, so I'm curious, how, like if I had to think who is chase rice you know like what because you've done you've been on survivor you fucking played football at north carolina you were in a pit crew you so it's and then you you know you said you wrote songs it wasn't really you so if you had to describe you who are you

it's a good question um it's been a weird life yeah it was uh football first i was a football guy and that That was my mentality in life was the keep hammering lifestyle. That's what I was because I was undersized, not as fast as some of the guys. So I had to grind to become the best at the best I could be anyway. And that mentality and music is not necessarily going to work. You can't just plow through people and say, fuck you on. Physical people. Yeah.

You got to I would say Through it all through Survivor through football NASCAR now music for 10 years I just first of all I'm not as tough as I lead on Like through being through a lot of the challenges that I've had in life the bad stuff the injury in football my dad dying I've learned to To just be myself and be real which is a be vulnerable to to sing about shit that hurts. Yeah.

Be, you know, not try to be this jock, tough guy that I thought I was. Yeah, I'm not invincible at all. Right, right. I'm only as good as the people around me. And I've got great people around me. Now it's in friendships and life in general now. It's hard to say who the hell you are. I'm like, I don't know, man.

But that's the biggest thing I think I can lean into, now in life is like, I don't even like saying the word vulnerable. Yeah. It makes me feel weird. Right. But that's the reality of it is the best version of me that I am is that guy. Is this vulnerable that's there for friends that will talk about tougher stuff. Like my buddy almost killing himself.

Me writing in a journal probably 10 years ago now, like I no longer want to be alive. Like I wrote that one night. Yeah. Bad. You're just in a bad, depressed place. But I'd say that the thing I'm striving to be the best now is like, be the best version of me, whatever that is. Sing about the real stuff that's happening in my life. Be there for other people.

Not just myself. Stop being so selfish. Yeah. Being there, just going out of your way to be there for other people. I think that's one of the best qualities a human being can have. Well, and from the outside in, too, it seems to me like you're, I mean, you love hunting. You know, we've been shooting bows and it's like anytime you're talking about hunting, it's like, I see your eyes light up. So there's something there about, did you grow up hunting?

Yeah. We shot, we'd go after doves when I was a kid on the power line. Like that's how I got introduced to hunting at five, six years old, you know, going out with my brother. I didn't get into big game hunting, which would have been Whitetail for us in the southeast. For me, until I was middle school, starting to get in high school, and it was all with a rifle. I was so bad at hunting in high school. I remember dialing in my 7 mag, my dad got me, scope, everything is good to go. Okay, that's not there.

Cool. Click, click, click. It had the cap on it. I wouldn't even dialing the scope in. Oh. Because the cap was still on it. I was just turning that. Turning the cap.

That's how clueless I was. Yeah. And it's turned from that into my brother, Casey, getting me into bow hunting six or seven years ago. He was older or younger? He's older. He's the best hunter in our family growing up. He's had a tough go on the elk with a bow the last few years.

It's hard for everybody, dude. He's had some tough luck. And I've gotten lucky. No. Has he killed a bull yet? He has. Oh, good. He's killed one with a bow.

He's killed a few with rifles. Okay. I think two with a rifle maybe. But he got me into bow hunting. And I love it. I don't know what it is about it. I think it's just the close quarters. It makes you nervous.

It's hard. Yeah. For me, there's that voice in my head when you get it, when you're getting into the bugling and getting closer. And it's, you realize this might actually. happen. That adrenaline. There's that voice in your head that's like dead ass serious.

And this sucks to say, but it's true. Man, if he doesn't walk in, that'll be okay because then I can't fuck it up. Right. But then it works or it happens and you just gain confidence every single time. It happens right. Yeah. You do the right thing. Which is where I'm at now.

I think a lot of people actually have that thought because it is so hard. and failure hurts so bad, people might want to skip over the failure part and just say, oh, fucking win. Didn't happen. Yeah. Because it's not on you. No. Yeah.

It takes it takes it off, the pressure off. So yeah, I mean, I don't think that's just you. I think that's a lot of people. But you get past that and you, okay, fuck that fear. It's going to be there no matter what or whatever it is. Cool. Now let's focus on what I got to do. Yeah.

Okay. Here's the wind. There they are. He's coming in. you're going to them, whatever it is. And you go get it done. Yeah. And that's the thing I love most about bow hunting.

Probably four years ago, I had an Axis walk in. I shot a buck low, a white tail in Texas. And this is when I was, oh, I'll get to that in a second. But I was just in a mode of like, kill, kill, kill. Just got to kill, got to get them on the ground. Rips. Yeah. And Buck comes in, shoot it low.

screwed it up. And then Axis walks in. And I don't know if it was nerves looking back or the fact that I didn't check in a blind if I could clear and actually jammed me up as I'm drawn. I did everything perfect. Waited for him to get 18 yards in. Broadside, drawback, shoot him dead. Drawback. Jams me up, slams down.

He sees me there. I draw back again and he scoots. So my heart was just broken. Yeah. And Kevin, who came to pick me up, he said, damn it, boy, damn it, boy. But he's laughing, and I'm not laughing. And looking back now, it's just because he knew,

all he kept saying was just you've got to stick with it. There's these four different modes of like, I got up my phone still, but basically he said, you need to get in that mode of kill. You've got to kill as much as possible to get the practice that you need to where you can get to that final phase one day, which is you're with others helping them learn how to do it. Yeah.

And I'm still in that phase. I still need a lot of experience to go after these guys. Yeah. This year I've got two tags. But you're right. I light up when I talk about it because I don't know if you can feel more alive than one of these screaming at you at 10 yards. or 20 yards.

I don't think so. You're just like, you're so in the moment, you're not thinking about anything else. Yeah. And it's just so real. And you have to grind to make it happen. You don't always have to. Some people just get lucky.

But if you're going to make it happen every year, you've got to grind. You got to earn that. And I love the grind. And I love working my ass off. Like today, as I was thinking, holding that rock, it's like, this sucks.

And that mentality is not new to me. It's the last eight months I got lazy. and my body started shutting down because I got lazy. All my injuries have caught up to me and I'm getting older. But even today, it was a familiar feeling of, yeah, you can't quit. Like anybody can quit. Don't fucking choose it. And that was a good feeling today up on that mountain with that rock of like, this sucks.

But I see the top, I'm going to get there. And at some point, I remember we were talking like, Nondor came up. And he was like, he said, that's something about switching. And he said, yeah, but leave that fucking rock here. Yeah. I said, no, at that point, you got it in your head. You got to get at the top. Yeah.

Now, I saw you being, you know, that's just a little competitive spirit. It's like, no, we, yeah, we could quit. I mean, nobody's out there. Yeah. Fucking, we could always come up with a reason to leave the rock and empty out the sand. Who knows what? You could make it sound good in your head to yourself, right? And nobody's there judging you.

But you were just like, you know, do. can we get this to the top? Do we, you know, do you care how long it takes? And I'm like, no, it's fucking skidded to the top. And I think I mentioned like, we're not going to pack a bull halfway out. That wouldn't be any good. Yeah. So, yeah, you, I mean, you finish the job. And I love that. I love seeing that in you because people, like I've, I've heard people say like, oh, I would, you know, I would never let anybody take, you know, my, take the load from me. I'd finish. And that sounds good when you're not doing it. When you're doing it, it fucking sucks,

and you can come up with all sorts of reasons why you don't want to finish. I got it in my head where it was like, I don't care how we're getting it there. Whether Nondor takes it halfway, I take it out, whatever it is, we're getting it there. Yeah. And I can see Nandoah was hurting.

I was hurting. And it's not like it was the toughest thing that I've ever done. I've done some crazy shit back when I was training for football and stuff. But for what today was and what shape I'm in in life right now, Like, it wasn't easy. The test, yeah. And it was cool to still know that I have that mentality.

And that's going to carry into tomorrow. Yeah. And a cool thing that I did last year was 75 hard. And that was something that I'd lost. It wasn't gone, but dormant, I'd say. It was the mentality of finishing things. And just when you don't have the accountability and you can kind of do whatever the hell you want,

I let that happen. And I got lazy and I was drinking all the time. And my buddy called me to say, like I remember when he called, I knew it was coming. He just wanted to do 75 hard. And he was just like, as soon as his name popped up on my phone, I was like, fuck. I know what this is. I don't want to do. Okay, when are we doing it?

I got Kentucky Derby next weekend. So what's the date? He said, we're starting tomorrow. It's like, dude, I got the Derby this weekend. I can't go sober. and that was a coolest test ever. It was four days in. You're having to stay sober.

No limit drops. No lemon drops. None. That's impressive. Funny enough. It was almost like God saying, hey, see, you can do this and look what happens when you do at one of the parties I was at, because I kept partying like crazy. I just wasn't drunk.

Yeah. I was sober. But one of the first party that we were at, I'm wearing a cowboy hat, Wallin, and Derry. and Al Dean and all these guys are there. Miss USA or Miss America, I can't remember walks in. Probably hot either way. Yeah, whatever she was. And she looks at me with her mom and I'm just like,

mother and daughter. That's cool. But I'm like, damn. So I go up and talk to her and we have great conversation, hang the next day. And I'm like, wait, Miss USA wants me. And that doesn't happen when you're drunk because you're an asshole. Right.

The shit show. Yeah. So four days in, I learned. and this isn't so bad. And made it the full 75 days. And then I went the opposite way after that. And it just turned into a shit show. And that's when my body started falling apart.

Just because I stopped working out. And now I've gotten back to. And a big thanks to you, because I knew this was coming. And I know you can't be in bad shape to do whatever we were going to do. Yeah. Yeah. So my goal now is, and I did it last night, I went out with the guys, had some drinks. here in Eugene had a blast, but called it fairly early to come do this.

And that's where I want to get to, or that's kind of where I'm out right now. Just in control. In control. And it does not matter what you did the day before. I have to get up and do something. Whatever the work at is, it doesn't have to be a marathon a day, whatever. Get the fuck up and get something in. Yeah.

And that mindset is changed my life even in the last month because I'm getting up and I'm grinding no matter what no matter i'm gonna pay the price if i did it the night before cool get up and pay the price yeah because life's just better that way yeah and you know you can have momentum going either way you can have momentum going to the fucking bottom yep and be a piece of shit every day and just like that's that's that's a drug or you can have that momentum you got that positive momentum now where yeah there might you know you might have a couple you're still you're still you're still going to get the work in the day. You're still going to make a positive stride. And knowing that you have to do, you're going to make yourself do something the next day is going to make you think twice about. Yeah, how hard you go. Do I really need to

stay out tonight? No. Like last night I called it in night. Yeah. But it's true. Like the mentality I had yesterday was no, I want to go into Cam's deal, whatever it is, knowing that I also had fun the night before. And to me, that can be a slippery slope for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I have got to the point where it's just like, man, it hurts worse the next day. Yeah. I'm not enjoying going out and getting hammered anymore. It's like I just like to be in more control. Yeah, I hear you.

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So what does that feel like? What do you get the most satisfaction from? Is it like being on stage and looking at all those faces down there, having a good time and you're entertaining? Is that, or is it the success of a song, or is it telling the story? I mean, where do you get the most? Yeah.

Live is my favorite part, I guess. I mean, but when you're in the studio and writing the songs, there's three different things that all lead to live. But live is ultimately why you do it. Yeah, for me, it's like you're not writing these songs to sing them to yourself all the time. Yeah. So I've done different things lately where I've gone to other shows. I've gone to a lot of shows this summer because I'm living in my airstream.

So I live in an airstream and not based in Missoula and then I just travel around. Okay. And I saw, I played a, I played, I played Shine Frontier Days. And then the next day, Zach Bryan was playing. So I stayed. And I met Zach at the Red Corps. carpet. And we didn't know each other well. He just said some words at the carpet. And he told me him and the boys listened to my record and they loved it. And that was cool. Yeah. That's it.

So I just stayed to watch and play and ended up watching this show. That was inspiring for me. And it pissed me off at the same time. Because it's like they know every single word, every single song. Yeah. But that's what happens when you're yourself. Yeah. And that's what Zach has built. I'm still fighting against myself. Yeah. And that's okay. Because now I've learned who I am and what I want to sing about. Yeah. But it was challenging. It was almost a challenge to me of like, okay, this is the ultimate live show when they're singing every word. Yeah. And I don't have that yet. Right. I almost look at some of my shows. I'm like, why are y'all here? Half of y'all are crazy as shit and having a blast and singing along.

half of y'all are just staring yeah and every artist has that by the way i'm sure every artist has the people they look at in the crowd and are just like are you even having fun but that's my goal now is is to get that reaction at the same time you can't get that reaction by me going and all of a sudden trying to make a Zach brian record yeah i have to ultimately stick to what i'm good at and that but that's I saw those shows and I see my shows and some people come to my shows and some nights are like that for me. Yeah, I bet. I want every night like to be like that. I understand.

And for me, that's keep writing the songs you're writing, keep doing exactly what you're doing. Do not chase shit. Just be yourself and eventually hopefully it'll be that. Yeah, you know, like we were talking about social media earlier, it seems like to me like, you know, you talk about being authentic. But Zach, when I first saw him and when I, Laney Gardner, too, they say, I think, they're sitting there. set it up out of probably a phone with a guitar and just singing. And so people are like,

they feel like they're there with them. And maybe that's how that connection, you know, you've done that too. But it seems like that was, well, Zach's whole thing. Yeah.

It's just started him. Just sitting there. I remember one where he's sitting there and like he had a fresh cut and he's like kind of sunburnt. What was he talking about? The veins in his arm center. What song's at?

Yeah. condemned. I'm condemned. Yeah. Like that one where he's just sitting there and it's just playing the guitar. Yeah. And I think a big key to it is just good. Yeah.

Well, of course. He's really fucking good. Same with like Morgan. He's just fucking good. Yeah. But you're good too. There's no reason why you couldn't do that. And I'm figuring it out now.

Yeah. Whereas before I look back and I would not say I was good. I would say I was confused. I think even they would probably say that at sometimes. At some point maybe. I mean, nobody hasn't figured out fucking 24-7, dude. You don't know what's going on up here for any of those guys. No.

From the outside in, you probably, because people try to make it seem like that, right? Like, yeah, I got it. I'm good. Nobody's got it. Yeah. So everybody needs accountability and somebody else around to talk to to deal with their shit because everybody's got it. it yeah just said it i mean but for me it's like yeah you just mentioned lany gardner i don't know

what she's doing if she's figuring out what she's i don't even know how old she is but she's good yeah and if she figures it out she's gonna be real good um like that song we played today that fleetwood mac or she's just seeing that cover is just like holy shit crushing it she's so good yeah and like i said we need to finish that song her and i wrote that dear miranda yeah um um But it's, man, I'm just in such a fun place where it's like the music is going to take care of itself. And if it doesn't and I fail, you know, and I would consider it a failure if, you know, if I actually, I can look back on my last 10 years and be like, damn, that was crazy. Yeah. And I could be done now and be like, that was a fucking awesome ride.

Oh, it's not over, dude. But there's no way. Yeah. I, to me, I don't really know what the goal is because there's so much other shit that goes into what I do. Yeah. Whether that's CMAs, ACMs, Grammys, all this stuff, I don't know what leads to getting selling out arenas. But I know for a fact that I am doing the right music, I'm making it the right way, and I'm not going to change that. There's no chance in hell that's changing.

And that's all I can control. Well, I know that, you know, Zach did win a Grammy. But before that is when we were all watching the videos and singing the songs. So it wasn't the Grammy made them. You know what I mean? That's 100%. It was just that, you know, that it just felt real. And you keep mentioning that.

And that's true. And you got that fucking soul in you. You've been through so much shit, dude. Yeah. So it's just a matter of just singing it, you know? And this is the first album where I've done that. Yeah. Like I said, I've touched on it here and there before.

But this is the first album that it's. no bullshit it's just like this is me man and there's a song called you in 85 um that's i don't know if it's going to be on the lux version of this this i hate cowboys record by the way it's my dad on the cover double fist and courts by yeah i always wanted to use that picture or classic photo i love that but you can't have that as the picture when it's ride or eyes on you like it didn't make sense yeah so now that i got the music right i was like this is the time to use that picture but UN85 is I wrote it with Lori McKenna

who's an unbelievable songwriter and Oscar Charles, my producer but basically saying like whether it's me with you in 85 or you here now like we know it can't happen but it's what if it could

this is what it would look like and it's kind of just me saying dad damn and the idea was like I told Lori and we started laughing about it. He always said, I'm telling you, you grew up, you're going to look just like me. And now here my dumb ass is with a mustache. Yeah.

I'm trying to get the curls going, but he had the bushy mustache. Now I have a mustache, and I don't know if I look like him, but I think we look familiar. I think so, too. And or looks similar. But he had more little reddish, more reddish hair, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he had cool sideburns, too. Yeah.

But he was a great man. Yeah. And I remember him saying that all the time. And like, no, I don't want that. Now that would be the greatest honor. Yeah. To be able to live up to who he was. And not live up to who he was, but honor him with who I am, I guess is a better way of saying it.

But that's the song on my record that I'm just like, who is about to get real in a really cool way. And I've hit on my dad a lot on this record. He's on the cover, so why wouldn't I? And I'll probably get off that after this album, go on to something else. Hopefully, I'll fit on my dog a good bit on this record. I'll get off of that and go move on to something else. But it's fun to sing about where you are in life.

Yeah. Instead of just, I got a girl in my truck on a dirt road on a tagging, stars, and it's perfect night. Yeah, I mean, that probably will still always work too, but yeah, it's, yeah. I mean, how often do you think about your dad and like what you're doing and what he would tell you? Pretty often. It doesn't really leave.

I think he'd be proud of what I'm doing now. I think the most proud he'd be is that I'm a good uncle. I think he'd want me to have a wife. I don't have that yet. One day, that's the goal. He might like hearing the stories from the road, though. I didn't make this shit up. You know, like, I got the love I have for women from somebody.

Yeah, right. And I'm not afraid to talk about that either. Like, I love women, man. And that's been a thing for me. But at the same time, I don't want to wake up and be 55 years old and alone. So that's a battle. You got to battle through every day. Is 55 old?

No. Do you know how old I am? Yeah, no, no, no, that's young. Okay. I just wanted to make sure I was like, I didn't really know what you're, while you mentioned that? I mainly just saying, I don't want to be 55 and single. Oh, got you.

But, man, it's a constant thought for sure of my dad. Yeah. And it's the saddest part is my mom. She's lived 15 years now without him. And that'll never fully heal for. her. That sucks. Never going to.

I don't think so. Yeah. I'd be fine with it if she did. That was her husband and that's it. That was it. And she always says nobody's going to live up to him. And I don't disagree. But that's a hard part.

Yesterday was his birthday. He would have been 73, I think, 72 or 73. And interestingly enough, I remember, it's weird that he would be in his 70s now because a week a week before he died I talked to him on the phone he had a heart attack and he said

man I was just asking him what's going on with him because he was dealing with melanoma but he was getting better beating it supposedly apparently not and he said man I'm not going to die from this I will not let cancer kill me and funny enough he had a heart attack kind of gave the bird to cancer and said

no I'm out here but he said man And by the time I'll deal with this rest of my life, by the time I get out of here, I'll be in my 70s and I'll meet the grandkids and I'll be ready to go. And now he never got to meet him. That's another hard part. But we got videos from, I got him in the family text, but it's from Addy, Danny, who's my niece and nephew, Walker, who's my other brother's son and then Jack's a baby so he can't talk. But they're all saying, we love you and miss you, Big Paul. That's what we called our, his dad.

Yeah. So they call him that. But that's tough to see. Yeah. It's happy, you're happy seeing it from them, but it's also tough to, that they didn't get to know him. And he can't be there for them. But that's our role now. But his legacy lives, you know, and that's all we can do when people are gone.

Yeah. It's, man, you know, fucking life and losing people. And losing a dad, I don't know. I mean, I know it's always hard. It's always hard losing people you love. But for a son to lose their dad, it's rough. At 22, it screwed me up. And I don't think I knew it.

I didn't have a clue. I remember not drinking at the funeral because I was like, nope, I can't go to that. And then a few weeks go by and you start drinking. I was in college, you know, that's what people do in college. But I had no idea how much it was going to screw me up. And then going to Nashville and being new to that scene, the party scene, I didn't face it. And that's why in 2013 I'm right and I no longer would be alive. Like, I just didn't deal with it.

Now I've dealt with it. It's always going to suck. But I can wake up today and fucking kill it. And I can go after it and not live in depression. And you have your days, but not living there. so you can actually function to have a good life. And that's what he'd want. That's what he'd want for me and for my brothers and my mom.

And life's never going to be the same since he's been gone. But it can still be awesome. Yeah. I remember when my dad died, it was weird because you feel like it's just weird. Because I would see everybody else doing the same normal shit. Yeah. It's like nothing fucking changed.

Yeah. But you feel like your whole world got ripped apart. Mm-hmm. They did. Your fucking dad is gone. And then you see people going to get coffee, fucking watching the game. Yeah. It's just like, how does nothing change except for my life?

My world is wrecked. Yeah. It's so weird that it's just weird. It's just hard to reconcile at times. For me, it's been helpful, though, like, anybody else that loses somebody you know how they feel yeah um and everybody's going to at some point i mean so it doesn't make it easier no but it does help you be there for other people when they're going through it um it makes you tough like it makes you have to you either give up

or you deal with it yeah and i've now chose to deal with it and deal with it in healthier ways than i was So, um, and that's part of too, like he, my brothers, coaches, other players that I played with growing up. It's like they helped me develop into this mentality of I'm not going to quit. Like whatever bullshit can happen, but I'm not going to choose quitting. And those people helped me develop that. And like even today, like going up that amount, I started getting pissed at the music industry. I'm like, fuck. You started getting mad at the last 10 years, but you're taking it's like, fuck it.

Yeah, I'm going to keep going. And all those people that help you along the way develop that mentality is, I don't even know where I was going with that, but it's cool to, oh, losing a parent is like, it makes you tough. It's cool to figure life out and look up and be like, sure, I've been, I've dealt with some tough shit, but I'm still here. The way I look at it is like all those feelings you have and think about when you do fucking beat it and win and get to where you want to, it's going to make it that much sweeter.

Yeah. Because you'll remember like this, hey, this has been a grind. Yeah. A grind and it fucking worked. I didn't know if it was going to work. I didn't think it was going to work at times. Yeah. But it did.

Yeah. And it's going to, you know, that in just some weird little. snapshot that happens on hunts a lot yeah like i'll be like it'll be hot bulls aren't you one and i'll just be like hey when i kill a bull it's going to be that much better yeah and so that's how i look at at your journey it's like yeah you're gonna fight the whole way yeah but you're gonna get there and i don't know if guys like you know zack i'm just using them as examples because of the two top dogs right now but zach and morgan like in my line of work i don't know how they feel i don't know what their rides been like.

But I know they're at the top right now. Will I ever get there? I don't know. But I know the formula and I know I know what I'm doing now. So that's going to lead the most success that I can possibly have. And that for me matters more than anything that I'm sticking to myself.

And at the end of the day, I'm going to look and be like, damn, I was the best version of me that I could have been. Yeah, yeah. That means more than anything, I think. Yeah, definitely. I was you know you mentioned like these newer artists

who but you're wearing the Chris Ledoux shirt who like who has influenced your music on the old school guys yeah it was Ledoux first I remember him before anybody and that was my brothers because they had a Bear Raks Yaku's cassette tape

then it was Garth and actually this is from a Garth concert he sells these now I think I'm sure it goes to the Ladoo family or whatever I hope anyway but guard's a little odd these days at season. Is he? He's cool to me, man.

Is he? He's been awesome to me. I don't understand why he wouldn't be on Spotify and just doing the normal thing there, but he's been great to me. Okay. And funny enough, this is a true story. I don't even know if he knows this, but I was supposed to open for him.

He gets on entertainment tonight promises me that if I ever play Nissan. I think I said, like, CMA Fest won't let me play Nissan. I don't know why I can't get in there, but don't let me in there. He said, I'll tell you what, if I ever played Nissan Stadium, we opened for me. So absolutely. Entertainment tonight. Like, you can't back out now.

I get a call. I think it was post-COVID. I get a call. And it's him. And I didn't answer. He says, hey, buddy, it's Garth. Call me back. I'm like, that's interesting.

Yeah. And he calls to tell me they're going to have the opera open instead of me. So he broke the promise, but it's the opry. That's cool. I couldn't have been there anyway when he was doing it because I had a show in Ohio. Yeah. The show happens. Chris Young, I think, opens too.

And Garth never plays because a storm rolls in. Huge thunderstorm. And fast forward, I'm like, okay, well, it worked that well for me anyway. I see the sign for the remake of the show, Nissan Stadium. I'm going into Nashville, going out to meet the boys. I'm buzzing. I'm on whatever I was on that night I'm buzzing

I look at the sign I'm like text him I'm drunk texting Garth and I say hey dude I see you know you're playing whatever let me know if you need some friends in low places because he mentioned

come up and sing friends low or whatever okay the thing that yeah I couldn't open for him anymore I wake up the next day and I have a text back from him I'm like shit he said said, here's the COVID protocols. Can you be there?

Yada yada. I'm like, yes. Yes to all. Yeah. And I end up opening. It was the Opry again. Chris Young, Lauren Elena, and me. And I was the only one that wasn't an opera member up there with them.

Then we all get up there and sing, will the circle be unbroken? I can't, I think that's what we're saying. Yeah. All together. And I'm up there singing just looking at him like this is my idol growing up. Yeah. And it all happened with a drunk text. See?

Everybody's got stories when it doesn't work, right? That one somehow worked. That one that worked. That was funny, man. Yeah. So what does it mean to be an opera member, just that you played there before or? No, they have to invite you in to be a member. Oh.

Usually it's, I don't know if politics are involved. I don't know if they're just like you. I don't know if you got to play there a certain amount of times. But I played it twice two or three times now. So it's cool, cool to do. That's a big honor. I mean, yeah.

There's only one, Opry. I know. When I've done it, it's been cool every time. Yeah. But Garth and Ladoo were early on and George Strait. I was not a, you know, prior to those guys, I didn't listen to really music in general. My family, we didn't really listen to a lot of music growing up. So those were the first guys that I got into, like Hank, Hank Jr., Willie, Whalen, John Prine, anybody's, these guys, I just, I didn't listen to them.

And now I'm getting into their music more just because I love good music. Yeah. I didn't even know who John Prine was until six or seven years ago. And it was a shit way to learn. I mean, these kids in Missoula on a shop talking about it. They fucking hated my music because it's the pop thing. Yeah. They just talked.

No, it was the pop thing. Yeah. It's not the pop thing. No, no. Yeah, it was then. Yeah. And they're talking about John Prine. I said, who's that?

Yeah. That's an embarrassing way to learn about who John Prine is. Yeah. They hated me because I did pop. They really fucking hate me after that. Yeah. But now I've dove into a lot of older stuff like that. Okay.

That's just good quality music. Like Chris Gaines. I don't know what the hell that was about. You're not to ask him about that. Yeah, I don't either. I heard that he was, you know, George Strait did Dusty, the movie, Pure Country. Yeah, yeah, I watched it. I had the rat tail.

Yeah, I think that's what they were doing where Garth was going to do a movie. Never happened. I don't know what Chris Gaines was about. That's a strange. Hey, he's being creative, I guess, right? He did, you know. I guess so. But him and his prime with the, oh, the brush popper.

The shirts. No, those were called brush poppers, right? shirts are. Oh yeah. He had a blue and black one. Yeah. He had the red and black and then he had a white and black. Dude, thunder rolls or I mean, fuck. Those albums were sick. They were so good. And that was when albums were great albums. I went and saw him here in Portland in like the early 90s when he was in the heat of it. Oh, Garth was blowing up. That was my first concert. It was 96 or 97 I think in Charlotte with my brother. Yeah. And yeah, I never thought I, in that. I didn't hear I'm years later

on stage with him because of a drunk tech. Crazy. Yeah, when I was growing up, I listened to Hank Jr. Like nonstop. And then actually Dolly had so... Yeah. She was so good back then.

I... It was kind of like, I think Whitney Houston did the sing the same song, like the updated version. But, man, she... Dolly had some great songs. I will always love you. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Hard candy Christmas is my favorite song of hers. I remember one morning I was duck hunting with my brother Casey on Christmas morning. And we did well. And then the ride home, hard good version to say nothing. And hard candy, they were playing Christmas music.

And that one came on. I just, that's a memory that always stick with me. This hard candy Christmas dolly. Well, we, yeah, same type of road trip,

uh, me and Tanner, we were going to Alberta. And we, that's when we listened to, I think that was bench seat. Wasn't it, Tanner?

Well, well, in, uh, of yours. And because he was asking me, he goes, have you heard this song? And I think we listened to a couple of them. But yeah, those road trips.

And we listened to, I had them listen to sterile. No. Who was a guy who his son died? And he wrote, was it stairways to heaven? Man, I can't remember now. But we went through like all these classic songs. Yeah. And there's nothing better.

than road trips listening to music i know i mean well that's what i've been doing the last two and a half months because i've seen the country you know seen it all yeah through touring but i'm not doing the work i'm not the guy making it happen and so that's why i moved into this airstream and i'm the one doing it all i was in in my airstream to downtown Portland which i'll never do again um a few days ago i'm just like i'm actually seeing everything man it's awesome i'm i'm getting to do the drive and i'm I listened to Endor on that trip. I've listened to a bunch of books. But, yeah, Indoor was two weeks ago.

Awesome book. Thank you. And I've listened to books on tape, podcasts, and a lot of music. Yeah, the bus is nice because you don't have to know airports in and out. You're just kind of like they can drive. Who's your driver? Uncle Carl. Uncle Carl can drive.

You can sleep for children. Yeah, it's easy. But the airstream is more rewarding. Yeah. Like even right now, I got a leak in the fresh water tank. It won't hold water. I got to fix it. Like, nobody's there to help.

Yeah. I'm the one that has to figure it out. So it's a headache and a hassle. Oh, wait. So you're driving the airstream? Uh-huh. Oh, okay. My truck's pulling the airstream, so.

Oh, I got you. I put on probably. So what's the bus? When did the bus take over? Just this week because for the show. That's why I left the airstream in Portland. Oh, okay. Like even tonight, I had to figure out the logistics.

The bus is going to Cortal Lane, which I'm going with it. But we got to stop in Portland because my air stream's there. It's like you can't come back to get it. So tonight I'll be dropped at whatever time I get to Portland, sleep in my airstream and then drive tomorrow to Cortalane. If I was just in the bus, I could just wake up in Cordelaine and be happy. but when uh so when you're looking into the crowd what type of people draw your attention uh honestly i am pretty uncomfortable with looking at people i know that sounds crazy but like i get why

church church wears glasses i wish i had thought of that yeah it's a good idea i would just be a poser if I did it now. But it's, I've worn glasses like during day shows. It's way easier for me because you do the eye contact. Yeah. Can you feel people like just everybody's staring at you? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And it makes me feel weird. Yeah. Especially if I don't have anywhere. If it's like there's no thrust. Yeah. Then you can just go left and right. It's like, what am I doing here? Yeah. But some nights when they're rowdy as shit and just screaming every word,

those are easier. because you don't really have to look at people. You're just like everybody here's having a blast. Putting on a show. Yep. And then the tough ones are when they're not. And they're just kind of looking at you. Like, do y'all even want me here?

Yeah. Those are the ones that are weird for me because then you, God, you just got to figure out how to make them like you, I guess. But those are the ones that are tough because then you've got to stare people in the eyes. Is it harder to do? like if you do a festival could they be there for somebody else?

Oh yeah. But if you're doing your show, they're there because they're Chase Rice fans. Yeah. So is that a harder thing? Festivals can be harder. Yeah. So this year I've done festivals with Morgan a few times.

Those are, I'm finding difficult because people want to see Morgan. So you got to figure out a way to make them like you and not just want the next act. Yeah. Yeah, how do you do it? Well, luckily, we've got hits now. So we have enough hits to where we can do it.

We can do an hour set, no problem. And then I kind of go through the story of my career a little bit and songs that influenced me, play a few different covers that influenced me. That helps. Yeah, people like the covers, for sure. The songs, everybody knows. I mean, shit, one of the biggest songs of the world right now is the Luke Combs song, a fast car.

Yeah. And that's a cover. Yeah. I mean, that was a huge song. Right. And he took it on and made a number one country song. So covers work. Yeah, definitely.

But, yeah, you got to bring it. Like, when everybody's there to see Morgan Wallen and you're playing before them, take that as a great opportunity to go crush. Yeah. And so we do, man. Our set is pretty dialed now. We figured it out over the year how to get it right. And it's just in time because we're going to have a jelly roll in a week.

Yeah. So tell him I said what's up. I will. I wonder how he'd do on this. I don't know, but hey, he's welcome. The talking would be amazing. I'd like to see him climb that mountain. Let's go, Jellie.

We'd take our time. Yeah, I mean, he's the best, man. And then we'd do Old Dominion later this year. But it's, yeah, the festival crowd. One of my favorite festivals in the world is watershed. Yeah. In the gorge. I've never been there, but I've seen the picture.

Shit, it's awesome. Yeah. And last year was the same thing. It was in front of Morgan. But as soon as I walked on stage, it was like, damn, they're here again. Like something about that festival just, it's the best. But then you think about the one thing that I remember from it. I was, I don't even know what song it was, but I'm just sitting out there.

And I've actually taken this and used it a few times since this guy did it to me. He didn't flick me off. I don't know. He was just staring. A huge dude. Glass is on. He's just staring. I keep looking at him.

It's all I can focus on. Who's this fucking guy? And out of nowhere, a few songs later, he's just still looking at me. He just looks at me. We make eye contact, he's just like, it just gives me the thumbs down. That's it.

I was just like, God, that's crushing. I would have rather you just give me the bird, man. Or say, whatever. Gives me a thumbs down. Oh, fuck. It went from the best show to what the fuck did I just do wrong to make you give me a thumbs down. Oh my God.

Yeah. But you laugh. Now I laugh about it. I'm like, dude, you don't like my music. Cool. Just don't come back. Well, okay. So that makes me thinking something.

Because we have these festivals here. The one you played and then there's another one to Parker just closed. I can't remember what it's called now. But anyway, it's another one in Brownsville. So the one, I think it was the one in Brownsville, but all country, obviously. And then they had one night, Kid Rock. Oh, shit. Right?

So these are country music fans. These are like, you know, like you said, old people like 55. There's some, there's some younger people there too. But Kid Rock, he comes out and he's, you know, he's playing all his hardcore shit too. Yeah, he's got some that could be a little country. But most of them are just fucking, he's jumping around. Oh, yeah. Ba with the Ba.

and people are going and so this isn't his you know this is country and so many people were like wrote letters into the paper they were pissed really right yeah because he's talking about strippers and he probably had strippers on stage i think he does oh definitely and so but he didn't give a fuck no so to me that's like an attitude it sounds easy like oh just don't give a fuck get up there do your thing yeah don't worry about it and man If anybody could do it, he can Because he didn't. I saw him at Bridgestone this year for the first time, or last year. And there was people in the crowd just like what you were saying.

Really? Like looking appalled. And he didn't care. Actually, he doesn't care. No, it was a great. I mean, he was killing it. Yeah. It's,

man, you're fortunate to be a guy where the entire crowd is going nuts for you. Yeah. And it's for, sometimes shows are like that and it's awesome. And then sometimes you get the one thumbs down. And you're just like,

that's what you can focus on but i've gotten to the point now i'm just like man i know our show is what it is and i know our show's good and hopefully it'll only get better with better songs and all that but i'm not going to let that bug me no more no no just like it's funny looking at the thumbs down i'm like dude just fucking leave you can focus on that guy like this or you can focus on the girl who says check your dms check your dms or whatever there i'll do yeah it's like you get that she was confident as hell walks up i'm just like seeing the crowd yeah she just walks up i hold your phone up people are holding their phones up a lot yeah yeah it's like guys i can't i'm not here to read your messages like let's have fun at a concert that one i noticed though she's pretty and all it said was

check your dm yeah it's all right okay let me check that right now let me pause the show real quick she was so confident doing that too i know that's i mean that's good and also a little little worrisome. Yeah. I wasn't their first artist. She's checking DMs for. It's all good. But that was,

we were kind of joking around. So who's getting the most attention from the girls these days? Is it you, Riley Green, but you threw another wild card? Yeah. No,

it's, me and Riley are battling for silver, I think, on that one. Yeah. Morgan takes the kick. Morgan's killing it. Yeah.

And you'd have to ask him what's going on. But I mean, there's not a girl I meet in America right now that doesn't know Morgan it's just like if you don't there was a where was I okay she wasn't from America I can't remember who she was where this was but I wanted to marry her because she never even heard of him oh perfect and I was just like and Morgan is a friend yeah she's the one you don't know Morgan you're the one no it's become a joke now it's just like Morgan's just he's the king he's the king of country music right now

the girls love them they're obsessed with them um the amount of texts that i've gotten from girls that i'm actually like i could actually like this chick yeah and then she sends me a selfie like wearing a walling shirt at his show or whatever i'm just like i don't need that my life and that's nothing to do with morgan i love morgan right um but it's become a joke that i just can't beat him yeah he gets the girls there's a lot of girls I mean, can only serve us so many. That's right, man. It's a white guy is like, well, I'm going to let him speak on his success,

but all I know right now is I'm fighting for silver. Yeah, wow, that's a good place to be still. Yeah. I mean, that guy who's giving you the thumbs down. I don't think he's up fighting for silver to you. No, yeah, it's like, thumbs down to me, thumbs down to you. I get more girls than you. No, it's become a joke at this point.

It's just like, God, So that is, I mean, I guess you got to separate the, you know, the frustration with the industry to like the perks of being the country music star. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I have the coolest job ever. Yeah. I have the best job ever. And I'm actually in a good place where it's like I'm single. I'm 37 now.

Still youngest, not old, not young. I'm kind of in the middle. I would say very young. Thank you. But again, yeah, you get around a bunch of, go to a college town, then you're not. And they're not so young anymore. But I've been a good place. Like it's, I'm having a blast.

My music's where it needs to be. I'm touring. I get, I'm single. I'm having a blast right now. Yeah. And I should be. Yeah. It's just fun.

Life is just fun right now. And I, and it's before I've been in relationships where you're just like, man, I don't know if I should be in this relationship or not. And now I'm like, no, I'm not on purpose because I know who I am right now and I know what I want to do and I'm having a blast. And if someone comes along that makes me want to stop doing that, perfect. Yeah. Be with her. Yeah. That's good.

What do you think about, like you mentioned Morgan. Well, he did like the little dirt. Yeah. Collab. Yeah. What do you think? Does that work? Do you think for country, like get into the other genres or what?

Yeah, I think it works for him for sure. because that's who he is. The biggest thing about Morgan that I know is he's good. He's just flat out good. And that's who he is. He loves rap. Moneybaggio, I think he's his favorite rapper. I could be wrong about that, but I thought that's what he said.

He loves rap. He grew up on rap. Loves country. He was a huge Eric Church fan. I know that. I'm a huge Eric Church fan. But that's him being himself. I mean, you listen to his record.

They can have something crazy country on it. And then the next one's a straight hip hop song. Yeah. Kind of. And yeah, I mean, he's doing songs a little dirt. Yeah, that's hip hop and rap or whatever you want to call it. But I think it works perfect because it's him. What was it one, Broadway girls?

Who is that with? I think that's a little dirt. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. He opens with that. And it's not a song.

He's singing. He's like walking out to it. Mm-hmm. And the crowd sings every single word. I bet it's freaking nuts, man. I bet. I've never seen what's happening with him right now. I've really never seen what's happening with Zach either.

And Zach and I hung after that night in Cheyenne, and he's awesome. He's a good, good dude. But that's a different thing because it's so non-mainstream and it's still huge. Yeah. It's impressive. What they're both doing is impressive. Yeah. I think it's cool that, like, Rogan had both.

Jelly Roll and Zach on. Oh, he did? He had jelly roll on? He did. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. No, he had him on like probably maybe a little over a month ago or maybe two months ago now.

Really? Yeah. That's cool. Then Zach not long ago at all. Yeah. Yeah. And I think he went to, he went to Zach's show and Zach was trying to get him up on stage to sing with him. Probably all night revival.

I don't know, but he didn't. I don't think he went up and did it. He wouldn't do it. But he said it was a great show. So it's kind of cool that it seems like, fuck, I don't know, but it seems like country music is getting a lot of attention these days. Yeah. I don't know.

I think it is. I mean, every, fuck. Is it the biggest it's ever been? I think so. It feels like it, but it's always been, I've always, I'm always like country and rap.

Those are my two, whatever, you know. Hell yeah. When I lift, I want to look, well, on suicide boys. You ever listen to them?

Uh-uh. You haven't? Uh-uh. Oh, man. It's good lifting, lifting music. They're a little hardcore, but I,

uh, go hard. I mean, you look at it. Morgan, I mean, I guess Luke did two nights in Nissan Stadium,

Luke Combs. Mm-hmm. Morgan, I think he's doing two or three. I only Garth did that back in the day. Now there's a few artists doing stadiums all the time. So, yeah.

I think it's the biggest it's ever been. It feels like. Yeah. And I don't know. I, shit. There's just more. I don't know. It's cool.

And it's weird too because, you know, we talked about country music being a lot of cliches, like maybe the girls, the trucks, the beer and all that. But still like the shit I like is still about that kind of stuff. I think it's just how you, how you, is a song good, you know? So what I noticed, that's the thing. Like what I noticed was when we did cruise, then all of a sudden everybody tried to do it. Not everybody, but a lot of people, including me. A lot of people tried to do that.

and it just became a watered down bullshit version of it. There were a lot of it. Cruise worked because it was the first. Not the topic, but just the way it sounded. The quality of just worked. That's the thing I think a lot of people do is they try to chase and they try to make it a bunch of different versions of that.

So if you can figure out your own version of it, it's awesome. Yeah. I try when I'm writing songs like, okay, I'm not saying neon. I am not saying the fucker word neon. Not a neon sign in a bar. That's my, if I have to sing a song, actually I sang a song with these, with, fuck, who was that now?

Swan Brothers. Oh, wow. Yeah, neon moon. Because I'm like, I can see Neon moon. It's a great song. But yeah, I get it. That's an awesome song. Neon's been mentioned a lot.

Neon's been mentioned a lot. I'm not going to say dirt road. There's other shit you can say. and just battle, just grind a little to try to find a different way of saying something. Yeah, because I was thinking when you were mentioned, you know, like a Morgan song,

I like last night, and I think it's just about, right, right. So last night's not going to be the last time or whatever. And then, thinking about me. So it's just like she's with some other guy, but she's thinking about it.

Is that a Morgan one? Yeah. And that's all like, that's probably, been saying or the songs written about that a lot yeah but still fucking good so it's just how you write he figured out a way to do his version of it yeah last night i remember they didn't even want to really write it really which is crazy because that is a monster i remember the first time i heard i was like jesus yeah this is gonna be huge yeah i don't i don't know if it's huge or not but i like

it it's fucking massive yeah and it but in 10 years of you go that would have came out and i would have tried to rewrite that yeah now i'm like good for you that's fucking huge i like whiskey friends too that's a cool song it's on his new record yeah i don't know if i've listened to that too much i hadn't heard it until we did a show to the weekend of shows together a few weeks back yeah he played it live and i snuck in the pit and uh yeah he started playing that and i was like yeah this is a good song the one of yours i like i was just listening to this morning was that one where it said would you say sorry mama right sorry mama yeah i think i said but anyway i think i said sorry mom but sorry mama that's i don't know you raised yeah i like that song it's a cool

and the way we recorded it was just fun yeah sounds like it basically just saying sorry mama for all the hell you raised like i can't imagine looking back now it's like damn she raised three boys that was a tough that's rough she went through a lot and she still is yeah she still has to to worry about my ass. Are your other brothers married? They're married. Yeah, they're both married. They both have two kids.

Yeah. I'm the only one flying solo. But done, I mean, dude, you've done, like, a light, as I mentioned, all those things you've done? Fucking crazy that you're only 30-whatever. 37, yeah. Yeah, so many, so many cool things. It's been cool.

Like, Stormy Warren, he was on the highway, now he does his own thing, but he said one time he was like dude you're like the forest gump of country music and he's it's cool that's one of my favorite movies too which is yeah like but yeah it was college football and then after that was NASCAR um and while i was doing NASCAR I was starting to write songs and really wanted to do Nashville but I had you move to Nashville and just start yeah um and I had the opportunity to do Survivor that came up on my hate reality TV why did you do how did you why'd you do survivor to make I had a girl reached out and say, would you want to do Survivor?

And I was like, sure, why not? That was my response. I didn't think it would happen. Was it hard? It was hard, yeah. The no food is fucking tough. At some point, you're just waking up and walking down the beach with no energy.

Yeah. You got nothing. How many days were you there? Ours was 40. 40. Yeah. So it was 40 days. The no food's by far the hardest part.

But mine games, I wasn't good at it. I don't know how I made it at the end. I got second. But I sucked at it. Like, I was the worst at the mind game. I was just telling people the truth and shit. I should have never made it that far.

But I did it, honestly, because it gave me an opportunity to not do my NASCAR job and take whatever little bit of money I got from that and be able to move to Nashville. That was the idea. I didn't think it would actually happen that way and it did happen that way, which was cool.

I took the money and I couldn't even do the job. I came back and my coach saw me. I was 34. I was emaciated. Couldn't do what job? The NASCAR job. The NASCAR job. Oh, okay. Go home, get your weight back on you, get acclimated back to the normal life and

come back and start up. Yeah. Instead of doing that, I went straight to Nashville. Yeah. And I moved in with Brian and Tyler from Florida, Georgia Lund. And he started writing songs. What are that, do you do anything with them now? We did drinking beer, talking God, amen in 2020.

Did that. It was kind of cool because Cruz was our first one that we wrote together. It was their first number one song as an artist. Mine is a writer. And then 10 years later, here we are, they were breaking up. I think it was kind of understood they were about to. But then we did that song together. And I guess their last song on the radio, maybe that went after that.

I don't know. But it was a cool bookend of like, we started this thing. Now it's over. And we're all going our separate ways. So it's been cool. Yeah. That was the last thing we all did together. Yeah.

I mean, what an industry. It seems like it's so competitive too. And it's like, I don't know. It is. It's competitive for sure. There's a lot of politics that go into it that I've never been good at playing those games. Yeah.

Because like I was telling you earlier, like that shouldn't be it. I guess you've got to get on the right side of the politics. At the end of the day, I'm not going to. I'm just going to try to treat people good and be good to people. that's where I'm at now. Yeah. I'm not going to go out of my way to make you feel good about yourself

or tell you how great you are so I can win this award or be on your radio station. Right. If you like the fucking song and play. If you don't, don't. Yeah. But what was I saying before that? Just saying I'm not very good at the politics. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I understand that too. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, if I, everybody tries to relate other people's stories to their own, But like when I first started, you know, people would always say, you know, you don't need to run a marathon to kill an elk. And they were like, you know, talking shit about how much I trained for what I do and you don't have to do it. And it's just like I wasn't, I'd see these other guys like I saw the bone collectors and Waddale and they had all their TV shows. And I'm just like, what the fuck? I'm busted my ass.

How come I can get a chance? So I get it. I totally get it, dude. I was a fucking nobody. working as hard as I could and had this dream. And it didn't seem fair. When did it change for you? Was it social media?

Yeah. Being able to promote yourself and how your lifestyle is. Before I had to rely on magazines or a TV show to buy the airtime and give me the opportunity. Yeah. And like I remember we pitched with Brandon Shockey, a TV show with me and Roy, my buddy. And because we would always hunt, you know, go to the deepest, hardest, you know where nobody else wanted to hunt in that the most rugged country and get it done yeah and so I said you know this is a show we're like beast mode hunting like you know you want it

so bad and they shot it down said yeah roy wasn't didn't really fit that you know he they said we want you to be more like a superhero and I'm like I'm just you know I'm a fucking bowhunter I work my ass off yeah and they were like didn't think Roy fit that thing so it's just like shot it down. Roy's the best bow hunter, you know, he died in 2015, but the best mountain guy

I've ever been around. And that didn't matter. Yeah. They fucking, they didn't care about being real and authentic and true mountain hunters. Yeah.

They wanted some, something that was good for TV, you know, like Waddell was funny. He was really good on camera. Yeah. I wasn't, you know. And so I didn't,

I didn't get any opportunities. Damn. Well, you do now. But, well, yeah, so social media was where instead of me relying on other people, I could just say what I want, put it out how I want, and you could either love it or hate it. Yeah. But it was like at least we were in control or I was in control and now you are in control too. And in some ways, I know you still have the label.

And, you know, I mean, even with my book, I was, you know, my publisher did good, but I would see like Tim Kennedy came out with a book and they had his book. he used another publisher is on new york times square with the book and i'm like why the fuck isn't my book up there yeah i want my book up there too and so like you still always have these things like could they be working harder on my book and could it have got you know whatever so that i think there's always that but now at least we're in control yeah you know and whatever message we want to promote and get out there well you have over a million people and you know you reach probably tens of millions a month so they can see whatever message you want yeah you're in

control of that that's huge yeah yeah definitely um and with labels and all that stuff like there's there's going to be a point where you are not a priority somebody else is yeah i in that place right now sometimes it feels like that um at the same time it is not going to change a fucking thing about what i'm doing right i'm going to keep putting out the music i'm putting out if i have to pay for it it i'll do it because i believe in it that much now one thing i started thinking lately like okay if i was paying for it what would i pay for if it's way down yonder which is a song on the album there's a video that was expensive would i do that again no because if because i don't think it had the impact that it needed what i'd do bench seat again hell yes because i believe in that message so i'm trying to

be thoughtful on moving forward where we need to where's the best bang for a buck and our best bang for a buck is in the studio making great music yeah that's the most important thing yeah and that's all that matters at the end of the day in my opinion um and that's a fun place to be at the same time if it doesn't work it's sad but i wouldn't change it yeah i think i think there's two parts of that i think yeah making great music in the studio is good but also sharing that journey on social media so you have people invested in your journey and then they see like oh fuck yeah he was grinding and now this is it it. And now they're just like, so they want to embrace it. And we did that. We've videoed the whole documentary of making the last record, writing the songs. We're doing that. I like, I want people

to hear and see these songs before they're out. Yeah. So I just put out a song called O. Tennessee, just the chorus. But that song is going on the next record. It's about it's about moving to Nashville and the grind that it takes a move to Nashville, getting the dream to come true. And it's fucking your world up. And that's what happened to me. It's like, and blaming Tennessee. At the end of the day, it's my fault.

But you're just blaming Tennessee. And this song, it's like, oh, Tennessee, what have you done? Was it your bullet of the gun? That took a life of love and chalked it up to a man on the run. And it's just about damn, Tennessee. You made everything that I asked for happen. And now you've screwed it all up. Yeah.

My life is all fucking turned upside down at the same time. It's just like, it's awesome. Yeah. I like that. This is a fun song. What you just went through with the lyrics there, that sounded good to me. It's sick, man. Yeah.

And then it says on the final bridge, I can't remember where it is in the song, but it's like, Tennessee, I gave everything. I have for you. How dare you make this dream come true? But it's just a fun song, man. It's good fun to play live. Oh, yeah. And it was just, it's, I just started right in Nashville.

It was just like, I started looking around everything that you wanted. If you had told me this, I'm going to be here 10 years ago. I'd be like, really? That's awesome. Yeah. But then it happens and you just want more. Right. Yeah.

But I keep going back to it and I'll keep saying it. The formula is there now. And it's just write great songs. Don't overproduce them. Yeah. Let people. hear them for what they are and and the rest should take care of itself. Yeah.

And if the label or whoever management myself, if that's not being promoted the way it should, I still got social media to do it. Yeah, definitely. Where do you have the most success writing? I mean, what is it just when it crops up in the shower, fucking or sitting down intentionally? I get a lot of ideas like on this trip. I'll just write down an idea to look through. I keep them all in my notes.

But what I found formula-wise is working great for me is I used to write in Nashville. I don't write in Nashville anymore. I don't go to music row and do that thing. I plan a trip with two or three other songs. writers or one in one case of Wilmington me and Blake Pendergrass did that one but um I got to do a trip now like I want four days three four days whatever with with these writers and that's all we focus on like did Montana um was one of the trips from the last record where we golfed one day

then come home and write songs at night and we write three songs on night sometimes next day we fished floated the river come home and write right so it just to me it allows in nashville you show up at 11 somebody's got to pick their kid up by three there's just so many distractions yeah on these writing trips you're having fun you're in the middle of a cool place uh laur mckenna we were at her house in boston that was a grind um we wrote three four four songs in two days but it was at her house and we were only there to do that so being away from nashville and not having distractions i think is my best method yeah yeah do you ever write a song and then get it done and then listen and think about you should have done you wish you would have had this other lyric or this other word or once it's done

no yeah i keep i keep messing with them after do you yeah because if something's not right you can always change it yeah until it's out it's right not permanent okay so i'll change stuff all the time yeah um what's your favorite song that you've written or you've done yourself if you had to pick one. Oh. I would say bench seat. Most meaningful anyway. But even that one, like, playing it every night.

It's not easy. Yeah. Shit, I got to do this. I know. Some nights I dread it. I can't imagine, like, some of those, like, rolling stones or some of these guys who've been around for 40 years playing the same shit. And I went, I saw the stones three times last year.

It was their last time, supposedly, in America. Yeah. It's like, yeah, fuck it. Was it the same songs, right? Sometimes were different, but they played mostly the same stuff. L.A. I remember they played Wild Horses and Beast of Bird, in which they did not play the other ones. Yeah.

They changed it up a little bit. Who's the best live show you've ever seen? Oh, man. I mean, Garth in the 90s. That was it. Zach Brian at Cheyant. That was one of the best shows I've ever seen. seen how does uh how does one win entertainer of the year because i've i've like it's so weird it's

like i've seen i thought for a while there luke was putting on fucking shows brian luke brian dude i mean he was like those people were going crazy yeah and he wasn't winning it it was like going to george straight and george straight just stands there he's not running around yeah so what What makes it entertainer of the year? Being on the right side of the politics. Yeah. Now that's part of it. There's definitely politics that go into awards.

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. It's just part of it. At the same time, like, I'm sorry if Morgan Wallen doesn't win entertaining the year in the next two years, everybody's wrong. He's doing it. He's selling the most tickets. Yeah. And he's the top guy, in my opinion, you know.

You cannot disagree with the number. You can say his music sucks, whatever. If it's CMT, it's probably going to be Dylan Mulvaney's going to be entertainer the year. It ain't going to be Aldine. No, it's not. So it's like, yeah, the politics there.

But, yeah, it seems even from the outside in, it seems frustrating. It's stupid, man. At the same time, you go to an Aldean show. And it's so funny, man. People trying to cancel people. You guys are fucking stupid. You realize making a big deal out of this

is only making him bigger. Yeah. And making the issue, like, there's so many people on the other side of what you believe. Yeah. That believe what he's doing is right. Mm-hmm.

Just shut the fuck up. Like, good for Jason, to be honest. I know. Good for him. Yeah. I love to see it. I'm just so sick of people trying to cancel people. Me too.

It's so stupid. Yeah. But entertainer the year, I mean, at the end of the day, You got to sell the tickets. The funny thing is, I think when Blake Shelton on Entertainment of the Year, and I love Blake, he's awesome. Yeah. And I think he even laughed about it. He was like,

I don't know how I won this. Yeah. He did like 20 shows or something, something crazy low, and he was on the voice. And he won Entertainer the Year. I don't know how that happened. I'm sure he could tell you, but right now it should be Morgan. Yeah. What awards have you won? I ain't even been up for any. No, you won.

I haven't. No? No, we, I think early on, maybe a video early on in my career. But this is, we are potentially up for album of the year this year for CMAs. It's in the final couple rounds of it, however that works. Maybe I think in your number ones because you've got... I've had two number ones. Two number ones.

Yeah. Which is not a lot. I mean, compared to fucking two better than none. Yes, that's true. I mean, how many people... No, how many P artists never have a number one? Oh, yeah. Most of them.

Right. So you got fucking two. I'm in there now with a lot of the greatest artists that are doing it. Like, I'm in that small 1% or whatever. That's cool, man. And it's, I figured out a way to somehow still be here. That's how, you know, it gives credence to when you said, if you, 10 years ago, if somebody could have said, hey, you'd be doing this, you'd have two number ones.

You'd be like, fuck. It's awesome. What? Yeah. And then, but still, it reminds me like, you know, Endure was number seven, a New York Times bestseller. I'm like, well, why the fuck is the number one? It outsold all these other ones. Yeah.

It did also. So it's like we get to this thing where, yeah, we're happy but not satisfied. You know what I mean? I'm not going to be satisfied until, luckily now it's not about award shows or anything like that. It never has been for me, to be honest. Radio's never been a thing I've chased hard. it's cool if you get a big hit on there but yeah it's even cooler

if to me all that honestly all that matters at the end of day for me is selling out selling out shows like if you can't sell any more tickets that's the best you can achieve and if they're coming and singing every song that's the coolest feeling in the world

oh yeah I bet um as far as award shows too it's like um yeah album of the year this year and then video of the year for Ben's and album's hard I mean, that's just, there's a lot of great albums. Oh, yeah. But.

So you think you have a chance with the video too? I don't, I don't think anything's better than Ben C. Yeah. And I don't say that about everything. Right. I'm just pumping my own stuff. Well, so who makes sure that gets in front of the right eyeballs? Or do you have to rely on the industry to see it?

It's funny. How it works is people trade votes. Oh. It's not like people just say, this is the best. Here's what's getting voted for. People trade votes. Okay. It's crazy.

I'm going to get in trouble for saying that. I don't know. But that's how it works. But in my opinion, Ben's seat is the best thing that I've ever done, especially the video. And it's going to cans, which is freaking awesome. It's won a ton of film festivals and stuff that we submitted for. Oh, that's what I'm thinking.

That's weird. I think we were talking about earlier. You mentioned that. So that's what I was thinking about the award shows. I guess I wasn't thinking about country music awards. Yeah. Ben Seats won a lot of film festivals this year. Okay. And who filmed it? A kid named Kaiser Cunningham. He was my dating. Evans been here. Yeah. He was that guy before Evan was here.

Evan seems pretty dialed in on shit. Evan's badass. Yeah. He's good, man. And he's, he's good at what he does. But Ben's seat to me should win. And that's, and I wouldn't say that about my album. I wouldn't say my album should win an album of the year. If it did, that'd be awesome. Yeah. And that would be a huge honor. But there's a lot of of great albums i don't believe there's a video out there better than ben seat and it's a very powerful powerful video well let's make sure everybody listen to this goes and fucking watches ben's she's and shares that shit it's sad yeah but it's real and it happens so yeah yeah um well it's kind of like uh so i haven't seen it yet but you said the dog and it reminds me of um Bradley Cooper and... Oh, Starsborn?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know... Shit. I mean, this is a... It's right on that line. That was, like, the saddest part of that movie. Mm-hmm.

He's fucking hanging there, and the dogs... It's kind of what happens. It's not a hanging. Yeah. I... When I wrote Ben's seat, that day, like I said, it took me like seven, eight hours and just ball in my eyes all the whole time. And I had the video for it when I was writing the songs for...

for some reason it just happened that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something just happened that day. That was awesome. Well, let's hope it fucking wins. It's got to get in still, but it's in the final round of voting for the CMAs.

And just like anything else, man. If it doesn't, first of all, that's wrong. Yeah. And I'll straight up say that about that video. Not the album. I'd love to be in for album of the year. But that video, if it doesn't make it in, at least make it in, they're wrong. Yeah.

As a nomination. Right. Yeah. But it wouldn't take away from from how powerful that video is. What it means to you. Right. Yeah. No, I get that. Um, well, dude, I mean, fuck what, I can't believe what a fun day we've had. And I guess Wayne's making us go out and have, what did he say he's cooking? Elk burgers. Elk burgers. We had five guys for lunch. I mean, he's not making us. But, uh, we get to go out there. I go out there. So I tell him, I'm out of his house more than he's there.

Oh, yeah. Because he's always working. Yeah. And I'm always out there shooting. So, yeah, it's, uh, we're pretty lucky to have Indicott Farms and Wayne and Lisa and, you know, today, they were closed. And we were in there fucking around with your bow all day getting it. It was, you were shooting good last night. And now it's like, we got the herd bull approved.

Yeah. And it's just lights out now. I mean, you hit that balloon at 226 yards. or no, 126. I was aiming at trees too. That was crazy. I got work to do on that boat still,

just getting used to it. But yeah, it's dialed now. No, it's great. It's great. And it's just like, I can't,

you know, we had the great lift session, a lot of reps. My chest is going to be ripped up tomorrow. I saw you doing push-ups to warm up. And I'm like, yeah, you're going to want to save those push-ups

because you're going to need those at the end. Oh. It toasted me and it's I feel bad holding you back because I know that's not I know that was easy for you but no it wasn't it uh I had a hard day great day man it was it was it was good I mean I just like I mean you your whole crew everybody is just like such good guys yeah I mean and like I said this is an excuse for me to get training partners yeah so you guys are awesome training partners today I can't believe we took that wrong up that mountain oh i didn't think that was going to be happening that was sick it was awesome yeah so awesome my pre stop pre shirt is just ruined in the best way everybody loves to stop pre shirt though it's awesome but yeah it's uh yeah i saw people commenting too that that they saw you in jacksonville it's oregon not florida but uh you put on a great show here that was awesome yeah that before last and i've had some stuff going on with you know just the industry and it's stuff

the fear creeps in it makes you even question are you relevant anymore type stuff yeah and that show that was happening and by the end of the show it's just like no we're good man yeah those people that showed up and they were singing was just like it was a good reminder for me like keep going man yeah well i mean i don't think you should ever doubt yourself you you are fucking good yeah you are good you got you got you got you got you got the fucking look you got that you got the connections you got I mean, if anybody's going to succeed, it should be you. Yeah. And you're, you know, you have and you're going to continue to.

I mean, I have no doubt. But I think that everybody doubts themselves, not everybody admits it. And I think that, you know, you mentioned earlier being vulnerable. I think that's just how it works. You know, that's what makes people great is that they, you know, and I, there's some quote of my book, but it's like the people who are great are the ones who don't think they're great right you know but they just put in the work that was literally one of my favorite parts of your book because it was just such a good reminder of like don't believe you're on

bullshit yeah just grind keep going like a head down eyes up is the thing i always said to myself that line mentally i love that line keep going yeah just do not stop no i have no i have no doubt you're gonna you're fucking you're on the right path for sure right and your music this last album is like you know it's a testament to that so thank you dude Um, yeah, I mean, I'm super thankful that you were able to come here and share a day with me and have a podcast. And it's like your whole story just it means a lot to me. I mean, just, you know, with your dad and you're just, you know, I don't know, this journey that we're on. It's like, uh, it is up and down.

Yeah. And it's like it's never going to be perfect. But I can, I really identify with parts of your story that you've mentioned in the, in, uh, the struggles and you mentioned the industry and I've mentioned my own industry and I've you know I've questioned myself and so I think I can really relate to a lot of what you're going through but I I'm very thankful for your friendship and for you to come here and spend today with me that it means I mean I know you've had on this thing so it's it means a lot that you'd ask me to do it's cool man this is what you're doing outside of just sitting here talking two hours that was

cool but the day was that much cooler it was it was awesome man. Well, let's go out, see what Wayne's up to and have some elk burgers. Some elk burgers. Let's go. It was awesome, man. Thank you. All right. Keep hammering, guys. Loophold optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company, and they make such high-quality glasses, all I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years. Thank you, Lou Pold, for supporting the podcast. Mountain Ops offers the best supplements on the market and functional gear for athletes and hunters.

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