Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 041 - Cole Kramer

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

Join us for a discussion with Cole Kramer, a Kodiak, Alaska hunting guide specializing in Sitka deer, mountain goat, and brown bear hunts.   Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Cole Kramer Links: www.instagram.com/cole_ak_kramer  https://kramerskodiakgs.com/    Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off Groove Life: https://www.groovelife.com  Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Santa Cruz Medicinals: scmedicinals.com use code KeepHammering for 15% off’’ Blokes: https://blokes.com/cam use code CAM for 20% off labs Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/   Timestamps: 0:00:00  Intro - Guided Hunts 0:09:07  Failure in Bowhunting Bear 0:14:58  What bears are feeding on in October 0:17:32  Risks in the Wild 0:22:32  Cole’s Uncle & Wild Alaska 0:28:48  Connecting by Disconnecting  0:38:12  Cole’s Favorite Animal to Hunt 0:42:32  Jon Blank’s Sheep Hunt 0:54:29  Taking Ex Military Guys Hunting 01:02:17  Hunting Whitetail 01:09:16  Hunting Influence & Mentors 01:21:57 Picking up “Nuggets” in Hunting 01:25:43  Dropping Your Ego & Sacrifice 01:35:14  What it Takes to be a Guide 01:38:20  Losing Close Friends & Family 01:50:31  Alaska - Waiting for the Pickup Plane 01:53:43  Hunting Mature Bear 02:02:19  How Many Bear Cole Has Shot 02:05:47  Learning Kodiak, AK for Guiding 02:12:55  Documenting Your Hunts 02:28:34  What’s Next for Cam 02:33:35  Bowhunting Sheep & Rams 02:49:48  Check Your Bubble 02:52:39  Outro

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Well, this is a Keep Hammering Collective with Cole Kramer. Great to have you. Thank you for having me on, sir. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I've been a fan of what you do for a long time. Love your attitude. And for those that don't know,

Cole's a guide out of Kodiak, Alaska. And what do you guide for, bear, sheep, goats? What else? So, yeah, mainly brown bear, mountain goats, Sitka Black-Till deer, doll sheep. So kind of travel around the state a little bit. Kind of, you know, if you're going to guide full-time, you've got to hit the seasons and travel around a little bit. We just finished up on the Alaska Peninsula for a brown bear.

Then now we're moving over to Kodiak for our brown bear seasons. So, yeah, kind of just jump around as a gypsy guide, kind of, you know. So you're not like a full-time influencer now? No. You know, there's actually something that pays the bills that's being a guide. You know, I think you and I have, you know, the one thing I really like, there's a lot of things like about you. But the one thing that you've always stayed very humble about yourself, you've had a day job for a very long time of which what you just just got out of what this last year or something. It was a year ago.

Yeah. So it's like, you know, this is all fun and fine and dandy, but realistically, I'm a guide. Yeah. And that's, you know, at the end of the day, sponsors and working with companies could all go away. at the end of the day, I'm still a guide. That's all I'm ever going to be. Yeah. So that's the way I look at things.

And, you know, if we can help some people on the way, getting into hunting and understanding things out there, then, you know, then great. Yes, it's a bonus. That's what I always thought, too. It's like, I got to keep this job because hunting is what I love, you know. And if I have to get in a position where I make a decision on a sponsor or this or that because of money, it's like, I don't really care.

I have a job. I don't have to do, I don't have to do what you say. I don't have to do something I don't want to do. I have a job that pays a bill. So it's, that's nice because I don't, I mean, and I'm like you, I'm sure that I don't want business to interfere with what I love. And you love guiding. You love being on the field. And of course, there's business to what we do.

But still, the passion is what got us there. Yeah. And 100%. Yeah, it's, yeah, guiding and taking people out. hunting has kind of been my thing ever since I was a kid. You know, I always really enjoyed doing it. Sure, I love hunting for myself, but it almost now, it's kind of a weird feeling when I'm the one, you know, pulling back the bow or pulling the trigger on the gun.

It's almost kind of a weird feeling, you know. Like I almost feel selfish. Yeah. You know, because I'm like, oh, man, someone else could have had this pretty cool experience. But I realize it's also helped me become a better guide because there's a lot of guys. because there's a lot of guides who don't take the time to go hunting for themselves. And they're just strictly guides. And I think it really will help you become a better guide if you, yourself, especially going on hunts that you have to pay for.

Because you don't know what that client or person is feeling when they've paid you their hard-earned money until you have put forth your hard-earned money. And then at the end, whether you've gotten an... animal or not having to tip your guide, you know, walking away from a hunt, not getting something. Yeah. You know, that can, you know, it's good to know what that feels like. And there's a lot of people that have not done that before. And it doesn't matter the scale of it. It could be a $3,500 hunt. It could be a $35,000 hunt. But it's nice to know both sides of that for a guide. That's for sure. I think it's a, the crux of any hunt is that decision in the red zone when you're getting ready to shoot.

And I think it's important because you can get somebody there or somebody can get there. But until you're actually sending that arrow or that bullet, there's a lot of decisions up to that point. But the decisions right then, I think you can learn from as a guide when you're doing it. You know what I mean? Because it's like that's such a critical time. So if you know, because you've done it yourself many times and you've been the, you know, as you said, a pain client. So you know how that kind of pressure feels. I agree.

I think it has to help. You know, I think a guide who never kills or is never in that situation where they're paying for it, I think it's like there's a step below where you are because you know what those emotions are like. You know everything because we're humans. We've got so many things that come in our head in and out, weigh on us, different things. And it's like I love your approach about still hunting, still going on hunts. but in in with the goal of helping your job as a guide I think it's important yeah it's it's really really easy

for a guide to get worked up with this hunter for not being able to make this shot or get ready get ready get ready and not take the shot and they sit there kind of bad mouth the hunter and you know years ago um especially with archery because I've specialized in archery for many years because I grew up shooting a bow. And, you know, if you don't know archery, then you just get someone within 100 yards. You're like, well, there it is. There it is.

Take your shot. And it's like, oh, no. Whereas, like, a true bow hunter will understand that we could be at 10 yards or 5 yards. I've had guys full drawn on a bear at 5 yards and not get a shot. And, you know, you've got to have the willingness to let down. and not take a bad shot. You know, it's not worth it, not worth wounded an animal. So it's just one of those things,

but to also have some sympathy for a guy who just, I didn't feel comfortable with the shot because I've been in those situations too where a guy's yelling at me to shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. I'm like, man, I didn't feel comfortable with a shot. I don't want to wound this thing. It doesn't matter with a bow or rifle. Right.

It's the same thing. You know, you want to make a good ethical shot, or at least in my eyes, and I know in your eyes too. And so I found it really pretty funny. A few years back, I went down to a little shooting clinic that this ranch, FTW in Texas put on. And at the end of it, they put us through like a stress course,

and it was all outfitters. Okay? There was like 15 of us guides there. Yeah. Okay. And these are seasoned older outfitters from the U.S., but also Europe, Africa, you know, several places. It was right before Dallas Safari Club.

Right. So it was like an invite thing. And at the end, they said, okay, so here's the deal. You're going to shoot it at a target at 150 or 200 yards. We'll tell you the target. And then you'll have 10 seconds to engage this next target. It would be like a fleeing animal. It's wounded or you missed.

Right. And you'd hit the other target. And they said, and we're going to pressure you. And they're like, okay, yep, yep, okay. We know what's coming. Right. And almost every single one of those guys, they said, okay, time starts when you shoot, boom, hurry up, shoot, reload, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry.

And almost every single one of those guys stop what they were doing, looked back and said, hey, man, shut up. And they all, it's like, well, you lose. They literally do the same thing to their client, but they would have happened to them. They failed. So it's like, hey, if you don't understand what it's like, no one likes being yelled at. So you got to know how to defuse you. use those situations and or talk to you.

It's okay, reload. Let's get ready for another shot just in case. And so it's always very interesting in those situations, how people react and having a little sympathy for someone who's worked up, because that's the other thing, especially being around bears, you just never really know how you're going to react. You have been around a lot of bears

and you know how you react. Most people never know that feeling. Yeah. And until it's that time. And I've seen some guys that I've judged that first, like, you know, judged the cover of, this guy's probably not going to hold it together. And then that guy did great. And then the next guy, you thought, yeah, he'll do great.

And that guy freaked out. You know, so, but that's just part of it. It's part of our job to be able to calm those guys. And to do that. And, you know, what I was going to say earlier is, you know, years back, with bow hunting, there was a lot of failure that we went through, whether it be with setups, not knowing the types of setups that would be best for large, large brown bears. And things just happened, like weird circumstances, not good penetration or bears reacting differently. And, you know,

but I always just kind of put it on the, I'm like, well, we got him in there. Yeah. You know, it's his fault. Yeah. Shot opportunity, 100%. Yep, yeah, his fault. his fault, his fault. Then I thought, you know, this really isn't the right way to go about this. I mean, I felt like, because the other thing is being a young guide, because I started when I was 19 and in my, you know. Are you 25 now? Do you not see this gray hair? Now, I die this just so you know, just to look more, you know, mature. Oh, right. But, no, but yeah, so in my early 20s, these guys, I would just say it's their fault. It's their fault. And I didn't want to step on their toes by trying to remind them steps. And I thought, you know, after all, lots of failure

and some, you know, close calls on things. It was, I thought, you know, I don't, I'm just going to address this and try to work on myself and to address it right off the bat and say, you know, I just want to tell you, I'm just going to tell you, I'm just going to. to remind you of some things. And if there's some things that you would like to hear to remind you, please let me know throughout the hunt because it will help. And I don't want you to think that you don't know this. I'm just trying to remind you these steps.

Because in these high-stakes situations, people will forget. Because I know I have forgotten as a hunter, as a bow hunter. And we go, dang it. And with a large animal in front of you at five, 10 yards, I've seen some interesting things with humans happen and you have to learn how to break them out of that and keep them. Like what would the reminders be?

Just keeping them like in their steps of, you know, draw. Because most of the times when a bear would be getting ready to come out of the brush, I'm paying attention. I'm having them down low behind a bush or on the side of the bush in order for the bear not to see the movement. I would say, okay, get ready to draw. draw and so they would draw and I just remind them about you know your anchor point watch your bubble yeah you know like all those little steps and if they had something like tell me don't punch it right

like just focus pick a hair those big animals as you know I mean it's it doesn't matter probably with elk moose bear large animals it's almost like your brain is just like just put the pens on it you know but a lot of guys will shoot high you know or or something of that nature and they kind of just forget. And a lot of people will say, man, I don't even know. I just put the pins on them. You know, I had a guy, one time bear at five yards, five, six yards. Okay, maybe it was exaggerating six yards.

It came out of the water. It was perfectly broadside at six yards, very large bear. And the guy pulled back with his recurve. And the bear turned to look at him. And he instinctively moved the bow to the bear's face and released. that was a that's like a five foot swing yeah with your bow yeah because he was looking at the head yep he just went the bear looked at him he goes oh and shot and uh god you hit it yeah oh yeah um the bear ran out about 50 yards and was slightly upset uh with with the with this thing protruding

from his head so uh i handed him the rifle and he finished him off yeah but uh that would have I believe that would have been the world record at the time with the recurve. And that was like in the early, I can't recall when he hunted with this, 2008, 10, somewhere in there. So. Could you have got them closer though? I mean, it seems like it's on you a little bit. I'm working a lot harder on that. You know, we try not, I mean, here's the thing. It's not like we're trying to get that close, but like, you know, in the fall time, especially when the bears are on fish.

Yeah. Okay, they're moving back and forth. So we'll say is, okay, we'll be five yards off the creek or 10 yards off the creek. And the creek may be 10, 15, 20 yards wide, depending on where we're ambushing or going down. And it's just a matter of, hey, the bear is going to walk after a fish over here or chase a fish,

because I've had to be on the opposite side of fish, you know, swirls in the water right in front of us and bears just running at us. I said, oh, crap, you know, and he grabs the fish right directly in front of us, and of course, that stirs up the hunter a little bit. And so now you have a five-yard shot of where you had a 20-yard shot. Yeah. Before, of which if I could, if I could, you know, set it every time to be perfect,

20 yards is a nice shot for everyone. 15 yards is nice. Closer, we're not trying to get that close. It is, it just happens. Yeah. It just happens sometimes. And you can hear them breathing and like, oh man, that's intense. Yeah.

I bet. Yeah. And I mean, you've taken several bears. So you know what it's like to be to be close. Yeah, they're big, big, incredible, intimidating animals. Yeah. Especially that close. Yeah.

And most of the time when you hear bears, you know, charging someone or whatnot, it's kind like they're just trying to get out of there. And you just so happen to be in their way. In the way. Yeah. Yeah. That's intense. You were just on the peninsula. So are they on, are they on fish right now or what are they on? Yeah, yeah. Fish and berries. So depending on where you're hunting, you know, just like on Codiac, it's some areas have good fish. Some areas don't really have good fish left. And so the bears are still, you know, roaming the creeks. It was a mixture of bears eating rotten, dead pink salmon, you know, humpies on the sides.

that were just nasty and you'd see sows with cubs and the cubs are just feeding on those rotten carcasses. But then they're also catching other silvers that are still very much alive, colored up, but very much alive. But then sometimes they'll go out into the berry flats and that tundra and just, you know. Is it a salmon berry or?

It's just like some of those tundra berries, like little crowberries. There are still a few salmon berries here and there and some low bush ones, but it's just a man. mixture of different types of berries. Yeah. And they were also eating.

There's like some really green grass along the banks as well. And those bears would, you know, they'll eat a mixture of everything. Yeah. So they need to eat. They're just trying to. All the time. Yeah. We had one bear that we were watching.

We called pork chop. And this thing was so, so fat. And I wish, I wish I had a really good, you know, video or photo of it through this spotting scope because it, you know, the national parks or whatever it is, does that fat bear week or something and it would have, it would have done very well. And at first I thought it was a deep, you know, a decent bore method and that's too, too roly-poly, too short, you know, stocky, but it just had so much fat, the belly was on the ground, but, you know, it's like, man, how come that bear was so, either was so smart in a very good fisherman that, or berry clitcher or whatever,

But it was way fatter than the rest of them. Is it a sow? It was a sow. Yep. I watched it for a long time. And I said, yeah, it's a sow. It's got to be. And actually the bear we end up killing was chasing after that bear

and was running after it in the tundra for almost a mile. Really? But pork chop was about, it was 500 yards ahead of it because it was just on its trail. And then we end up intercepting it and just getting the other bear. Was that a good bear? Yeah, yeah, right around 9. half foot good bore yeah beautiful hide yeah just gorgeous gorgeous bear so yeah we were pretty pretty excited and uh weather was pretty brutal on us there for a while but really yeah we're you know it's

it's the Alaska peninsula it's it's just I mean when you look at your I'm looking at my garment in reach weather and it says like clear skies northwest winds nice and it's still raining and blowing snowing every day but that's just the way it is when you're when you're down there and you have when you're on the ocean, both sides of the peninsula is hitting you. That's rough. The weather changes constantly. Yeah. And it's kind of funny because the hunter's like if it clears up, oh, you think it'll

be good today? It's like, man, I'm not going to lie to you. I mean, it could change in five, ten minutes. I don't really know, you know. We moved into their guide into my camp afterwards and he got stuck in there multiple days after they killed a bear just due to the wrong winds and fall. and rain and just they land on the beach there no no just super cub way up in a valley oh okay yeah yeah yeah it's kind of we don't have a lot of spots that are like easy to get into it's it's

pretty advanced super cub flying so like tundra tires yep yeah big 35s guys are running and it's like one of those things that the weather's perfect easy yeah but if it starts going the other way it's you got to know what you're doing otherwise it can it can turn south real real quickly and I bet You know, the hunters and, you know, my hunter was great and everything, but his buddy was out there and they had a big business dealing to deal with this week, I think, today. Hey, could you talk with the outfitter to make sure it gets them out, you know, like kind of quicker to make sure.

And I said, and I just called him and said, hey, man, I'm just going to break it down for you. We don't pressure the pilots. Yeah. I've had, you know, several pilot friends, including my uncle, and plane crashes. You don't pressure the pilot. No. We don't care about your business dealings. We care about your safety. Yeah.

That is the utmost importance for us. And also, I'm pretty sure your family, you know, wants you to come back safely. So there is no, yeah, there's no risking. We don't, we don't want to risk, you know, that, you know, unless it's absolutely necessary. Yeah. And most of the time, I mean, we take in tons of extra food and fuel. You're good for days. there'll be a break. Right. You know, it's just a matter of being smart

because every year you hear planes going down. I know. And a lot of them are amazing, amazing pilots, you know, and things happen. Jim, just this year. Yeah. Yeah, I hate that. I flew with Jim multiple times. I went out there and hunted those guys.

Shane was very close friend of mind as well. And, yeah, he's the best, the best, you know, Jim is, I'd fly with that guy. If he would have balled that plane up and walked away from, I'd hop right into plane with him right after that. that guy is an amazing pilot, an amazing family. And, yeah, my heart goes out to those guys. Terrible.

Yep. But it's just, you know, Alaska is, there's a lot of things that can happen on the ground or in the air. And that's just, you know, as you know with your buddy, Roy, I mean, that's just, it's a very unfortunate thing. And you just got to try to be as safe as you can out there. But there's still risk. no matter what you're doing, there's always risk. My thing is, and I think we're probably on the same page as, you know, our families don't want to see us go and probably in such a way,

but I worry more and I would be way more upset dying in a car crash with some 17-year-old girl texting and running into me, running me over while I'm on a run or something that, you know, then, you know, bear eating me or falling off the mountain or plane crash, you know, at least I'm doing something that I absolutely, absolutely love. You know, it's just the unfortunate thing is your, your family, you know, that you leave behind. But, but yeah, I worry more in town. Yeah, me too.

That's what I have way more worries about. Me too. That uncontrollable in town. Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, because at least being out in the wild, yes, there's risks. We're well aware of them, but, and it's not like you're in control, but you're more at peace out there. Yeah. And you feel like if it's, if it happens out there, that's what you signed up for. You know, if it happens in town doing something, it's like, God, you're just a pawn, basically.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think we all, we all hope to someday be, you know, just sitting there on the, on an easy chair with grandkids or great grandkids and telling stories of hunting adventures. Yeah. You know, that's the, that is the ultimate goal, you know, and to, you know, pass gracefully and without horrible suffering. Suffering.

Yeah. You know. Yeah. Doesn't always work that way. What happened to your uncle? So my uncle, Robin Sterrett, he was in the Coast Guard, flew I think 25 years in the Coast Guard, Lieutenant Commander flew H-60s, essentially like a Black Hawk, what they call him a Jayhawk. And so he did that and retired.

And then he was flying fixed wing, flying in Navajo and actually ended up having a catastrophic failure after takeoff. And really bad weather in January, right off takeoff, fully loaded with stuff and just, you know, right off the end of the Codiac runway, very unfortunate deal. and but you know he was a huge influence in my life he's the reason why I went up to Alaska when my parents divorced when I was 11 my uncle you know wanted to get us out of there and just my mom was actually moving from Kansas to Missouri to our new home and thought I'm going to bring the kids up get him out of that situation while she's moving and brought us up to Alaska you know, fishing for two weeks, solid. It was just unbelievable.

Unbreaking believable. And, of course, it was like during like pink salmon season. So it's like every cast you're catching fish. And I was a kid that caught bluegill bass croppy, you know, that are just, yeah. And I freaked out if I caught a, you know, one, two pound, two pound bass. Yeah. You know, and so like for catching five to 10 pound pink salmon. Yeah.

I mean, it just blew me. me away. I'm like, well, I'm coming back here. And I was 11 at the time. And I had already been pretty, I would say, I was always a young entrepreneur of like, hmm, I need to make money. How do I do this? Oh, yeah, I'll shovel driveways, snow in the wintertime, you know, mow lawns. I love mowing, mowing and vacuuming. For some reason, I like vacuuming in the house. Because it was like mowing, I could mowing. Yeah, indoor mowing. Yeah, indoor mowing. I could do lines. And I think I was like, ADD luckily my parents never gave me any meds yeah but like I say luckily that maybe it wasn't luckily for them but like I think doing those things kept my mind yeah my numbing right okay shoveling

yeah shoveling yeah sure forward yeah pretty straightforward I like digging holes in the backyard I just go dig a hole you know and shoot my bow don't overthink it no no and but when I got back from Alaska I was like okay I have to go back in the like well that's it's pretty expensive you know and I was like okay well what do I need to do and I'm like well you know you just you know it's just hard to you got to work I guess or do your chores and I was okay so all my chore money all my work money birthdays Christmas all needs to go to Alaska fund and so that's kind of that's where that went and luckily I was able to go up to Alaska a few more times before

I end up moving up there right after high school and week after high school school. But yeah, my uncle had a short stint where he got transferred to Cape Cod and then for like nine months. And he got transferred back to Kodiak's and needed more helicopter pilots back up there. And he loved it up there. So he drove through and picked me up. And we did a two-week trip where we pretty much camp the whole whole time. Stopped in like Libby, Montana. That's where I learned how to fly fish on the Kootenai River. It was like, I want to say it was the year or two after a river runs through it came out. Oh, man. And so I was like, oh, man. Yeah. So I was there trying to do like the Brad Pitt casting, you know, whatever it was, the butterfly. I don't know what it's called. It looked good,

though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I made like the yearbook. You know, I was in the yearbook, fly fishing, you know. So, but that's where I learned out of fly fish. You know, it's just those, those memories that my uncle gave me were like the most amazing things and, you know, driving up up through Canada, camping basically every night. Lots of fun. Oh, I bet. Lots of good adventure. And, I mean, as you know, when was the first time you went to Alaska? In the 90s, I think Kodiak.

Me and Roy did Kodiak. I think it was 96 maybe, 94, something like that. Yeah. I mean, it's, I'm sure for you, same thing, that you just get through. Oh, man. Oh, yeah, heaven. It was heaven. Go kill three or four deer.

I mean, I had a hard time that first one because I had, I was like, and you go into a hunt and say, okay, I got four deer. tags. It's like I'm going to kill four big bucks. It's like you can't kill four until you can kill one. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then I skipped the one and was like I already had these big plans. So I had a hard time killing the one. But then finally I did kill two on that first hunt. Meanwhile, Roy was killing just giants with his recurve and like he always, he's always beating me on the big animals. But it was like heaven on earth up there for a hunter. Yeah. There's no, no greater place to go than Alaska.

It's just so it's big and grand. You know, it's the grandiose just views. And when you get out there and that plane leaves. Yeah. It's a real deal. Every step is crucial. Yeah. And you got to, you got to know what you're doing.

Yeah. And it's just one of those things. And it can imprint your soul or you'll give you major anxiety and you'll never come back. Either love or hate it. Yeah. I mean, it's either like, this is everything I've ever wanted to do or it's just too much for some people. There's some people that it's too much and it happens even on guided hunts. I've had a handful of guys over the years that just said this isn't what I signed up for.

And it's like, what do you mean? Like you thought we were going to kill away earlier. But it was what it was is they were, it freaked them out too much out there. Yeah. The camping, being out there that far away, they just couldn't get in their truck and like, they had no service. Right. You know.

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They're offering you guys 20% off labs if you use code cam at blokes.co slash cam. And so it freaks people out. Yeah. And even to this day, there's, I mean, not that that ever goes way it's been like that way forever. But in terms of, you know, my goals are to get people out there, have a great hunt, but also the big one is for freaking, for people to detach. Yeah. Put your freaking phone down, man. You don't have service out here.

Yeah. You know, and, you know, for a business standpoint and for family, mainly family and safety, you know, like your in reach is, it's nice to be able to touch base. let your wife know your kids know we're okay yeah you know um things of that nature if you have to find check in with business but man you don't have to be like texting all your buddies giving updates every moment of every you know because i mean it's different when you're hunting somewhere and you've got service and this and that and the other whatever or it's like a you know pretty boring dull hunt. But man, it's, it's really, I really enjoy watching people detach for 10 days, 15 days.

Yeah. And you just see the new spark in their eyes of, hey, man, every day, we're just getting up. We're making coffee in the morning. We're making breakfast. We're getting up on the hill. It's a simple life out here. It's pure. It's very pure. And we're watching the animals. We've got nothing but time, you know. And it's really, really, really. really cool to see that. You know, when you went on that Black Rifle podcast with those guys, you know, and you got to hear Evan and all those guys' Bear Hunt story. But like that was actually really cool to see those guys who were obviously very content,

you know, rich people that do lots of, lots of content. And so to watch them finally detach and not check their phone, I don't have service. look at Instagram or something, you know, and I love those guys. But like finally after about four, five days, yeah, okay, that's gone. And then watching some of the guys like Logan write in his, in his notebook, skits and different things and just, just making notes and, you know, that's cool. I know. And then, you know, all that stuff comes in fruition later on. Yeah. But like I got to watch those guys, you know, 10 days in, like, man, we need this. We got to do this every year.

We've got to detach because it's, when you're in town and in service and we don't really, we don't really understand how much this, you know, like the phone and just being connected with people, you know, it's great, but we have to do it for business and this and that. But man, it's truly amazing when you can set all that stuff aside and reboot your system. It is a reboot for your system. You don't know what you're missing. Yeah. And it's like we think we're missing something by not having the connection.

You're actually missing something by not having the connection with the land and the animals and yourself, basically. Yep. And so that's a real connection. This stuff is like anybody has this. Yeah. Out in the mountains or in the wilderness. It's like that's what very few people have nowadays. That's a special part.

Yeah. You know, and just surviving, looking for animals, trying to make a plan. just being with just the true human interactions, you know, with another man. It's like, that's what's, that's a reward to it. Getting to know a person. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, getting to know your guides, my relationships with some of my hunters

or some of my best friendships now. Mm-hmm. And those guys, I've had guys, you know, that either don't have sons that hunt or don't have kids or a son or whatnot. And I feel very blessed that there's, you know, a handful of those guys that treat me like a son. And, you know, for holidays and or this and that. And if I don't stop through and see them, I'm down in the States,

yeah, it's not good. They're not happy. Their wives are calling me, hey, they're not really happy with you that you didn't come by while you're in town. It's like, oh, jeesh, you know. And so you make those relationships and those are special, you know. And, you know, in our hunts, like our bear hunts, I mean, hey, what's our goal? We're going to, our goal is obviously find large mature bore and to kill that thing.

And for you to be successful in that hunt. But realistically, my goal is to show you and teach you things about bears in the land that we're in. And it is a huge bear viewing trip. Right. Right? Nature viewing trip. Yeah. We're getting to watch a lot of cool stuff. And that's the whole thing.

When guys are immersed in their phones, they're missing that. Yeah, exactly. And glassing is such a big thing. And we're in our binos all the time. But I'm also, it's also like we're talking, but that goes by the wayside after a few days of getting to know the person and going over everything. And some, you know, the other times you're kind of split up on the hill and I basically put all my clothing on, if especially if it's cold and blowing and just kind of sit there and just think about life and going over things in my brain and, you know, being in my own brain.

Because when people are constantly, you know, listening to, you know, whether it be music or podcasts or which always listen to this one for sure. But like the point is some people don't know how to just be in their own brain. Right. And in their own thoughts. Right. And so that is an interesting thing. I say that those are important things, especially if you've never done it. And that's a great place to do it.

But it also is when I've got to dig deep and be like really trying to find bears like in the afternoon and or whatnot on my hunts, I tell guys, whatever you got to do to stay in the game. You must be present to win on these hunts. and I need you to be glassing, and especially my guides, if we're out there, it's like if you get, you know, I'll have one earbud in, listen to an audio book or a podcast or some music. I mean, especially when you're getting tired and whatnot,

I'll take my little cat nap, replenish my eyes, and when I wake up, it's ready to rock and roll, you know, because if you don't, especially in those long spring days, you don't take a little nap. And it's almost like, sometimes they don't even fall asleep, but like for 30 minutes you have your eyes closed in a tundra hole and you wake up and really often

it's pretty amazing you're like oh there's a bear you know but your eyes are just you know they're just getting beat up by just constantly looking through the glass and you got to have the best glass to do it you know and but what do you use i use a mixture of stuff typically a swarrow binos i've got a set a loophole binos got some sig ones you know it's like there's i don't know it's just a mixture Yeah. But I have been used instead of these loopholes for a while for my binos. It's pretty nice. Spotting scope?

Spotting scopes, I use that 95 millimeter swarrow. Yeah, yeah. So it's, but I also bought that baby swarrow. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's pretty nice. It's pretty nice. Yeah, go from the 95 down to that little tiny one.

I bet. What's your favorite animal to hunt? You like bears or sheep? I mean. I mean, I guess I have to say bears, you know, but they're all fun. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like when you're watching the blacktail rut and you're in the height of that blacktail rut,

yeah, it's tough to beat that. It is so much fun. Yeah. I love mountain goats for how cocky they are. And like the steep, nasty terrain that they get in. And they're beautiful, you know, big white wavy coats, you know, they are, they're beasts, man. and but sheep are obviously very majestic, but they also give me probably the most stress.

I put the most stress on myself, sheep hunting. How come? Because it's very physical, very, very physical for guys. I'm not saying physical for myself. It's physical, sure, but it's physical for a lot of the hunters that we're taking. It's very physical. And same thing with goats, but in terms of sheep are so scared. Yeah.

They're scared. Yeah. And they see something. Goats are very planned out. Here is our goat trail. We will evacuate the area down this trail. And we will go here. And you can plan on that.

That's what they're going to do. You literally could have a guy sitting there on the trail and they will walk out that trail. Right. And so, but sheep, I mean, sometimes they may go on a trail. Yeah. But otherwise, they're just running out of there. Yeah. And I've watched bands of Rams.

You know, one of them probably fart. And they jump up and they run for 500 to, yards to a mile. Yeah. For no reason. No reason at all. Or get up in the goat rocks and it's like, yep, couldn't do anything.

Yep. And so sheep, what I do typically, and this is me, myself and I, I have a camp in my back at all times and I will not, as soon as I find the ram, he does not leave my sight. The only time he's not in my sight is if it's dark. Yeah. And I try to camp right over a ridge, right over a mound, do something to where I can get and just look and make sure I keep an eye on them. Yeah.

And because some of these areas, you know, sure, you could find some spots that have a lot of different rams in there. But, you know, when you're hunting the areas where it's eight-year-old ram, full curl, or boomed on both sides, you know, sometimes you're just not finding as many, excuse me, legal rams always. And when you do find a legal ram, you better, or one that you really want, you better stick with them. Yeah. There's some guys I know that, oh, it's long days. And, you know, I just get up whenever and go after them. That's not the way I hunt sheep, man. And so I, you know, if anything during the day while they're bedded, it's sunny, you know, me and my hunter, you got to take a little cat nap.

Yeah. Take a little cat nap. You know, when the sun's up and it's, you know, you could see them. Yeah. And I can disappear on me. But I am on them until dark. Yeah. And I wake up in the morning, I'm rolling over and I'm looking, okay, you're still there.

Right. That's just kind of what I like doing. And sometimes you've got to make big move when that down drafts are in the morning, you know, throughout the night. You may have to get up really early and make a move up into that bowl while those air currents aren't coming up towards them, you know, because some of the stuff, like especially in the Chewagach, you can't just jump on a ridge and walk around the ridge and go over there. It may not be passable, you know. So it's just I love sheep hunting. We went to Northwest Territories this year, did a fabulous sheep hunt there. That was my first time to go there.

I saw the McKinsey Mountain reference in there. Yeah. Yeah, it was beautiful. We were over there at Canola Outfitters and took my buddy Jonathan Blank from Salt Lake. And that was a lot of fun. We had a really, really good time. Did you work for Canola Outfitters? I was strictly there as a Packer.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, just helping out. Yep. We had our guide from there, Buddy Cash. was guiding and um and so i was strictly there to you didn't say a word i didn't need to yeah i didn't need to because uh he's a good guide you know it was actually very the my only stress so we're taking jonathan jonathan's a double amputee um marine and you know great guy and uh took him goat

hunting last year end up drawing a goat tag got him up on the mountain with the good team of guys killed a mountain goat and um really cool experience and brought them down to wild sheep convention because they were showing like a a little short of the hunt one of the evenings and got him to you know introduced to several of the people there and uh there was a really great generous family there that said, you should probably go sheep hunting. And they came to me and said, we'd like to donate our sheep hunt to them. And I mean, it floored me. It, you know, I was in tears first thing in the morning when the guy's daughter came up and told me about that. And so Saturday night banquet, you know, you got over 1,000 people in the room. They had Jonathan come up there and Graythorne the president.

It said, well, you ready to go sheep hunting? And so it was really cool. And, um, Really neat, emotional time. And we, so we went up there end of August this year and got them up there. And first day, able to get them a giant mountain caribou. And then the second day ended up shooting a ram. And we were out of there the third day. I mean, it happened so fast for us. That's incredible.

Because we got into camp and there were guys that had been in there 10 days. and so I had John on my pack of build and we're just kind of doing a little few warm-ups things on the runway and these guys get in and they're kind of like what is this? How much does he weigh? John weighs, he says 135. I think he gained a little weight on this hunt, but I'm just kidding John.

But now he's about 135. And then so, but yeah, these guys that were like, what are you guys going to do? He's like, oh, we're going to go and go sheep hunting. And, you know, it's like my thing is like it may take us 10 days, but whatever, one step at a time. And we're not going to go fast. It's just we take our time, take it in, and, you know, you assemble a good team of guys and just get the job done. Yeah.

But, yeah, I think it was like we had a lot of people praying for us. And I, that's my, I never pray for, hey, you know, Lord, let us go kill us. something. I just pray for strength, wisdom, encourage to do the right things and to have a good outcome and to, you know, hopefully inspire others to get out there to do things for others and especially like in our military with those guys, getting them back out in the field and showing them that you can, you know, still be a part of these adventures, especially these guys that are affected majorly by war. And so it's pretty cool for myself. The good Lord has blessed me. with I guess a little bit of strength to just walk

with a heavier pack on. And so it's really, you know, it's my way to be able to get guys out there. And one of the cool things that we found out, like last year, because my buddy, Kevin Danae owns Barney's in Anchorage, you've probably been in that shop. He kind of helped me with the pack frame

and then another custom seamstress worked on some things. through like the system shop. They, a lot of, we had calls afterwards from fathers wanting to take their sons out and daughters that were paralyzed. I see, yeah. And that was the majority of calls. Really?

Were parents wanting to get their kids out. And we're like, wow. That's incredible. That's cool. Yeah, it is. That's cool. How did he write on your pack? Was it pretty good?

Yeah. Honestly, because there's a. meat shelf on the back of those pack frames. And the problem was the meat shelf, I found out when you first get on it, it wants to come in. So you'd set that quarter on there, right? And then it kind of clamps into it. And I thought, ooh, that won't be good. That'll pinch him. And so we grabbed another one of the frame bars and attached it and made, you know, it comes down to a 90, then it 45s down. And I bolted it in because it was just a pen in there that it could move. So I bolted them. and doubled up the sling,

which we carry 160-pound bear hides on that stuff. Yeah. We knew it, but I definitely don't want it to break out there. Right. So we just bulked it up a little bit, and it actually rode very well. And so, but, yeah, it's just kind of one step at a time. And, you know, John just encourages me not to be a pansy, you know, keep going.

And so that always helps me. How far do you have to go? Goat hunt, we went up about 2,000, a little over 2,000 feet when it was about a five-mile round trip in. So we'd have to go super far in, but I'm not going to lie. I was glad it wasn't any further. That's a long way, not much weight. Yeah. And then on the sheep hunt, I mean, Glenda, the outfit, really took good care of us and put us in a spot that it was a little more like roly, you know, I would say, plateaus that went up in.

to some of the steeper shale mountains. And in that place, you know, the sheep were just on the cusp of the steep shale. And, you know, we were, we had to go a few miles to them, but it was fairly easier going to rain. And, but, you know, we killed the ram right at dark, a few miles from camp. And then just stayed out. We left the kill site at like 1.30 in the morning. And, you know, we look up. It was so magical.

we had Northern Lights just banging up in the sky. So awesome. And I mean, it was probably the best display I have personally ever seen. Really? Just because I haven't seen a ton of them, actually, because in Kodiak, we don't get the Northern Lights as much. And so that was really special for us to, you know, I would take like a 20-minute break, sit down and just watch.

And John was blown away by it. John was so stoked. What a special experience. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we almost ran our cameras out of just, space just because of we're like, oh man, I got to try to, of course, you can never get it as good your cell phone, right? As you can see.

But luckily we had some photographers there that was able to grab some pretty cool stuff. But, you know, I told the guys, I'm like, hey, there's no reason to hike back to camps and I don't want to, you know, fall and hurt myself or John. So let's just camp out here. We just stayed in a little creek bottom. And it was really lovely evening. And we woke up and cooked up some tenderloins backstrap for breakfast over like the little slate rock and made a fire.

It was great. That's once in a lifetime experience. You got to do that kind of stuff out there. Yeah. You know, it's very special. And, you know, I was really, felt very blessed to be able to, you know, have that experience with those guys. And like I say, you know, you asked, well, about what I did. That's literally all I did was carry him.

And I wasn't stressed at all about my stress is to just not drop John. Yeah. You know, don't fall. And because I knew our guide, cash was like a legit, very good sheep guide, very good guide all around. So it was, I literally had zero stress about that. I knew he would do anything and everything possible to get it done. And he's a beast as well. So it was a lot of fun.

We had a wonderful time up there. So it was really cool to see because, you know, I watching those old Gordon Eastman videos up there. Yeah. Right? I know. So cool. So cool. Those are, you know, like I've told the Eastern boys, it's like, man, one of the tax rumors I've worked with in Kodiak forever, I would go over in the mornings to go flesh or in the evenings. And he'd like, hey, I'm inside having coffee watching the video.

Okay. So I'd go in there and have coffee and we'd be watching, we'd watch the same video over and over. And it's up there, you know, Gordon hunting sheep up there, same camp. Oh, man. Same camp. How special is that to be able to go up in the mountains. right where you know it's just one of those iconic films in the in the in the music is like therapeutic it's almost like yeah it's just classic therapeutic stuff and the narrating it's pretty neat you know that's what i was telling john i'm like man we're blessed to be here and he thought

that was very cool you know so that's what what i mean those are it is a once in a lifetime experience to have all those things come together on a hunt and have it a workout like that with the big caribou a ram you be in there with the northern light just the whole you're staying out. It's just like it was scripted. It couldn't have went any better. And you're out of there in three days. That's unbelievable. I think we were home. We were out of there or we were at least back in camp before the other hunters even were home. And I honestly think we had so many prayers going up that it was like God was like, all right, all right, we got to get these guys done. This is this is a little bit much. I mean, a pastor of our church there in Kodiak was like, I was traveling. I told my dad and

my dad had his church praying for you and all these other people I knew of it. And I was like, wow. I know, like I find this out afterwards. I'm like, no wonder we got this done. Yeah, a lot of powers. Power of prayer is very, very, it's very impressive, I will say that. Man, well, that sounds like a great trip. Good job on being part of that. Well, I was just, like I say,

fortunate to be able to be a part of those things. And, you know, the big thing is, is getting guys like John out into the field, you know, because, like I say, otherwise they don't get to do it. And the thing is, those kind of guys are extreme people. they did an extreme job and they loved that extreme job and after you know being hurt

or wounded or whatever you want to call it I mean a lot of people that want to take people hunting in those situations want to throw them in a buggy drive them out somewhere not so extreme and be like okay man shoot from the truck and thank you to those people

because that's what they can do. And some guys, that's what they know probably. That's what you have to do. But the things I like to do for these guys, especially the guys that I've been able to do it with, I want to make them feel like, because I tell them these are the exact same hunts that I take my other guys on.

I'm not doing anything different for you on this. I just want you to know. Like, we're going to help you as much as we can. Yeah, I maybe hired a couple more guys to be in here to help. but this is the exact same float hunt this is the exact same goat hunt it was pretty cool with John we were sitting there at the wild sheep show and and my booth and this guy came in outfitter buddy mine from Colorado and he he said hey nice meet you John and he goes oh you got a goat I see yeah there's a picture in there cool he goes yeah I hunted it I said yeah um Russ hunted goats me last

or two. Oh, really, Russie, man, I wouldn't do a really crappy spot. God, it was, it was trash. God, I hated it. I was stuck in there, man, and blah, blah, blah. I was, you know, I was hurting my ankles, hurting my feet, all this stuff. It was, it was horrendous. And I showed him, I say, yeah, this is where John shot his goat. And he goes, you took him the same spot. And, you know, it was good for John to see, too, because he was like, oh, wow, you did take me to do like a legit spot because that guy was like, you're crazy. Why did you take him in there? Like, well, we take him where the goats are, man. We take him where the goats are, man. We take him where the deer are, taking where the sheep are.

Like, it is what it is. But, you know, those guys, especially in the like special operations community, you know, it's really cool to be able to get them back out there and let them make what they want of it. If they need a little extra help, we will do that. Yeah. But some of those guys want a little bit of, you know, struggle a little bit of, to show them, you know, they can still do this, you know.

We took some guys out Audat hunting in Texas at my buddy's place, and we took a guy, Clint trial, amazing individual. Yeah, I know him. Yeah. Love that, dude. Yeah. And it was like his first, like, legit hunt after his injuries. And to watch him, you know, double ampute, you know, he's got prosthetics,

but it's very painful to watch him on uneven rocks and stuff. But, you know, we, hey, what do you need to me? And he's like, nope, let me do this. And to watch him. you know, move over these rocks and to get into position to shoot for Audads down in these canyons and whatnot. I mean, it was painful, but also very powerful to watch. Yeah.

And that was really, really cool. But, and I thank Evan from Blackar for, you know, hooking us up to take him. Because if those are, I love taking those kind of guys that they don't want it easy. They want to be able to, because after that, okay, all right, I can do this. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't pleasant, but I can still do this. That's the cool thing to watch those guys. Where did the interest of trying to help guys like that come from? You just like an evolution to there?

Have you always had this allegiance to military? You know, so I never served. You know, it was kind of weird. My grandfathers, both of them, World War II. Well, one was World War II. One was Korean War, but it wasn't really talked about or anything. My interests were always going to Alaska, but once, you know, then uncles in the Coast Guard, okay, but once I got up there, I got to know, we have a Navy SEAL training base up there, got to know several of the instructors over the years. John Barclow, you know John.

Met John in 2003, and he came, and I was on a volunteer search and rescue deal there, and he came in to give us a talk about how to wear it. clothing, you know, just strictly on how to layer, how to use your clothing. And that really opened my eyes for how to, you know, just appropriately dress in the mountains. Right. So, but like through John and other, just getting to meet instructors over the years and getting to know those types of individuals and hanging out with them and seeing their brotherhood and, you know, going to barbecues with them and them like welcoming me into their groups and just you know that was like really cool and it was kind of also for me like man I wish wish we had more time in life because that seems like such a I'm like I'm just going out hiking around in the woods you know shooting animals

like I feel like there's other parts like man I kind of wish I was able to do that you know I wish there was more time that I could, you know, go do that. But I have to, you know, we all know we can't go back and change anything. And I wouldn't now. But it's like now I like to, after seeing some of those guys be affected by war or just an especially like meeting Evan and those guys from Black Rifle and him. Because like the other big part was going and helping out at one of the first Black Rifle adaptive athlete shoot for archery,

went to help those guys just learn how to shoot bows. And a lot of these guys were all either amputee, you know, arms, hands, legs, whatever, and a lot of them were first time bow shooters. And so that was really cool.

Went to the Eastern Center there to help them. Yeah, yep. Yep. So Evan had bought them all, kits, bows and everything. and full kits of stuff. And so they just showed up. They had a case with their name on it. And so we were just teaching guys. And a lot of stuff, like some of these guys, okay, they're missing a leg.

And you're thinking, okay, they got hands. They should be able to us. Well, IED would blow up in lots of fragments in their hands. So they can't feel their hands. So some of the guys couldn't really feel their trigger fingers. We had one gal that had a pretty messed up hand. And the whole goal was just for guys to shoot the bow. Yeah, yeah.

Not like, wow, amazing technique. Right. It was, I remember one of the gals, we got it strapped. She couldn't hold it in her hand. She was really strong. She worked out all the time. She couldn't hold it in her hand. So we got it strapped in between her fingers.

Wow. And we strapped it on there. And she finally was able to pull back. And when she shot that arrow, Evan and I looked at each other. Like literally we were trying to hold back our tears because she was crying. And it was just like just releasing the arrow. Yeah. Releasing the arrow was massive.

And so that's what was really cool to see all those guys. There's a handful that could shoot their bows pretty good already. But, you know, you got another guy sitting there with the mouth tab, you know, shooting and all this stuff. And it's like that to me, being around that, that community of people was like, okay, this is what I want to do. I need to be able to do this each year, you know. Yeah. That's important. Yeah, it's just, but like getting to know a bunch of those guys over the years has been really neat experience for me.

And so, and, you know, my other, like, passion is for, like, kids, you know, that's the next big thing is I would love, I know it's harder because it's Alaska, right? And you can't just send a bunch of kids up on a jet to Alaska. But if there was something, you know, where had a chaperone come up with some, you know, teenage kids or something that don't have as much hunting mentors, right, and to get them out there because that was me. My parents didn't hunt. I want my family hunted.

And so, I mean, if they did, it was very light. My dad, my first memories was my dad walking across the yard with some pheasants while I was playing in the backyard. It was some guys from church. They went out Sunday afternoon and shot some pheasants, I think. And they were walking across the yard and I just remember thinking, I want to do that. I was four. My mom would tell you were four when that happened.

And that was my earliest memory, it imprinted upon me. And so it's kind of one of those things that, but what I was going to say is that those, my dad stopped hunting immediately after that because, and I blamed my sister because my mom got pregnant. And my dad sold his guns, the bass boat, all that stuff. And because they're doing an addition on the house. And my dad, I think, just socially hunted with friends, you know, bird hunted in Kansas, you know. So it wasn't like his passion, you know, but I wanted to do it. Yeah. Because number one, you want to do things your dad does, you know, and I thought, wow, that's cool. that's what adults do.

Yeah. But then it all went away. Why I wanted to continue to do it, I don't know. But thank God when my parents did, after they split up, we moved up to Kansas City, Lisa Missouri actually, and some folks through our church introduced me to an old-timer that kind of led me along and got me into hunting. And, you know, he's like, yeah, if you go get your hunter safety course, then, you know, we'll take you out deer hunting.

And so, yeah, done. went out and got the hunter safety course kill a buck and uh yep first uh first season uh you know it's kind of one of those divine things it was kind of i say divine thing i was a little impatient sitting at my tree you're just sitting at tree and it's that a tree in the ozarks of missouri it's world war two out there pow pow pow pow pow pow you're hearing all these gunshots going on and i got a little bit antsy got up towards the end the evening walked over towards uh glen's tree because i thought maybe I'll push deer towards him along the creek bottom. And I got over there.

Well, he was gone. And all of a sudden, pow, right over next to my tree. And I was like, well, that's weird. So several hundred yards back, I'd go walking over there, and there's Glenn at my tree. And there was a dead dough on the ground. And he just looked at me and he goes, you've got to be patient, boy. Yeah. And I was like, dang it.

I totally mess this up. You know, dang it. If I only had patience, I would have shot it because it is brown. It's down. Yeah. We do not care about horns. nothing it is deer tag can't eat the horns are can't eat the horns so the next morning all right we'll go sit over here at this other tree well first light heard some limbs breaking and and uh out pops

this deer and it's like okay wow i think it's a buck and open sight 30 30 pow shoot him to 60 yards and uh you know got over there pulled him next to my tree waited for a while waited for old man glenn to get over there nothing i run over to his tree he's gone i guess he's gone i go up there and he's just sitting up there. We passed each other somewhere in the brush and he's up there gutting my dear and he wouldn't even talk to me. And I was like, oh man, did I mess up? Did I mess up?

And he just looked up. He goes, no, you did real good. You did real good. And I was like, okay, I just didn't know how reactions should be. Yeah, right. And we end up putting the back of the truck, go to church, show his people. everyone's like, wow, wow, well, man, that's a big deer, end up being a 151-inch buck.

Whoa. By far, the largest deer down in that country, it was like, you know, six-year-old buck in the Ozarks. Wow. Of which, how it got through that minefield of, you know, hunters for that many years. Right. No clue. But, yeah, so, you know, and they told me,

several people like, hey, you should probably mount this thing. And so I called my mom. I was like, hey, mom, they say I should mount this deer. And she's like, well, son, we can't afford that. And I thought, okay. And I didn't argue. And I just said, sorry, guys, we can't mount it. And they were just like, are you sure?

Because, you know, otherwise we got to take the cape or not, you know. And it says, sorry, I can't. So my dad for Christmas helped make me a plaque to put the horns on and stuff like that. It was really nice. Still got it. It was really cool, a little wood plaque. And, but, yeah, that was my first buck, 150-inch, white tail, still have not killed one bigger.

Really? Yeah. Yep. So. Even down there at the Yeti ranch in Texas? I didn't. Actually, I never, I went down there, but we weren't deer hunting. We were just shooting pigs and stuff like that.

Yeah. Is that down, what is that? Because I think it's right by where I hunt. Oh, really? Yeah. Because I was hunting. What is there? Is the Paloma Ranch or something like that?

G.K. Paloma. Yeah. But I think Yeti, from what I heard, they might be buying it. Oh, your place? Yeah. Well, yeah, they got to let you go, right? The hunter. I'm done.

But I killed that big white tail back there. That chicken is what it's called. But he had the white on them. Oh, wow. That was on GK. But then this year I was down there and there was this big buck that were calling Prince. Supposedly he's only five or whatever.

But he's like, yeah, he's off limits because they had this agreement. with Yeti and GK. And of course, this buck, you know, I killed, I killed, I don't know what I killed. I think I killed a buck finally. And then I sat this blind because it was where Prince was coming in. I just wanted to see him. Of course he comes in 10 yards away, giant like a 190 inch white tail, but off limits. That's way it goes.

It just sits there looking at you hanging out. That's just, yeah, it's kind of the way that happens. So you've never been able to hunt down there. Not for deer. Not for deer. I've hunted at a friend's place down there by Crezo Springs and whatnot a couple of times, like for cold deer. But I mainly just, it's like, we're mainly bow hunting and it just doesn't quite work out. Or we're looking for this certain eight point or nine point or something of that nature. I maybe shot one in the high fence one time that their ranch manager was like, hey, we need this one out of there.

but I didn't, I made no offense, I didn't count that one. But, I mean, that one was probably a little bit bigger than 150, but like I say, it's not, I'm not going to, me personally, going to. Well, 150's a big white towel. Yeah. Especially for your, especially open site 3030. Open site 30, 30, man. It's a hell of a shot.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, but that's what we always shot with. And I remember when I bought, uh, I thought, okay, I saved my money and I bought a Bushnell scope and put it on there. Four power. Yeah, or maybe a three to nine or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I was like, sniper.

I'm a sniper. Oh, I know. I'm a sniper now. So sick. Yeah. So much better. Well, because you, I mean, you hunting up here in Oregon for Black Tails is super thick, right? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, we hunt the logging unit so you can have longer shots. But my first, my first deer, or first rifle was a model 99, 300 Savage. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. So it was a lever action. Yep. But had a Bushnell banner on it.

Yep. You know. Bushnell banner. I know. Those worked. Yeah. Man, I took, and I think I put that on my first long range rifle I bought, still in high school, bought a seven mag.

And I put that on there. Hey, man, when I moved up to Alaska, I put a nicer scope on and it never shot the same. Really? Never shot the same. It was with that Bushnell barrel. What was the scope you got? Oh, I mean, it was a good, I think I bought a used loophole or something, which I have tons of loophole scopes.

it's all I shoot. But it was like one I bought at a pawn shop. Probably dropped. Probably. I need to sit it back. They'd probably redo it or give me a new one. But I thought, no, this is like the history, you know. The gold ring, dude.

Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where when I say, like the banner, I was able to hit pennies, like within a penny at 100 yards. And then it went to like an inch and a half group or something. That's probably my right. Almost probably not a scope. But it's anyways. But no, it was good.

Those are good times. And I think, you know, one of the things, while back I was talking with Bert Soren, which I know Bert was on here, right? Yeah, no, he hasn't been on here. Oh, Bert wasn't? No, no, he hasn't been here yet. Okay. So, but Bert, good buddy of mine, but we talked about like having mentors. Yeah. And those mentors helping, you know, young people get into hunting and having someone you could talk.

And it's not necessarily about young people. It's about a person getting into hunting. Yeah. Right? I mean, Roy was there with you. Yeah. Right? Definitely.

And I know you looked up to him, but having them. but having those people to look up to and bounce stuff off of. Yeah. Is like really important. And it's, that's what I try to tell guys now, because I know you get reached out all the time, right? About, hey, I'm thinking about Bow, honey. And hey, I'm thinking about elk, honey, what should I do, you know,

and all this stuff. And, you know, my thing is talking to guys about, man, going to your archery shop and hanging out. Yeah. Be in there, you know. Being around it. go volunteer there, go just hang out there, go be around people. You know, don't be annoying and asking, where do you go hunting?

Give me your spot. Just be there. And maybe someone will invite you to come along and you can learn. And or just go and help someone pack out a bowl. Right. You know, and just go help them on their hunt. You know, everyone just wants to jump into it, go kill their animal, and go post it. Yeah.

You know, and that's put in the time. Yeah. In the efforts. It's the journey. It's the journey. It's a lifelong journey. Yeah. And I've been shooting a bow since probably, I would say,

first one was probably five, six years old. And I bought a barry curve at a garage sale at like seven. And I shot that for a long time. And I meant, no, maybe it was eight, eight. But regardless, bought like for 12 bucks and I had like 20 random arrows. Yeah. And but just like I didn't start bow hunting though until I was 15, 14, 15, actual bow hunting. Yeah.

Shooting. But even shooting an arrow, as you said, you know, with that adaptive shoot, just releasing an arrow is so empowering to people. Just watching that arrow arc towards a target. It's that. Yeah. And you don't even, yeah, just shooting. shooting a bow is so therapeutic. You know, it really is because it's like I'm not a huge fly fisherman,

but like if I'm fly fishing, I focus. I'm focusing on my technique. And if I'm shooting my bow, I have to focus. Yeah, you're going to miss. And just the practice, getting out there is very therapeutic for people. And even if you're not a bow hunter, but you go, because it was interesting, which I always thought, well, everyone who shoots a bow is a bow hunter. But coming to find out, a lot of people are just like,

like the target shoot. Yeah. Right. And just because you're like, I don't know if I'm ever not going to shoot a deer. Well, you can still go shoot a bow. It's still a lot of fun. And you never know. You never know when that day may come that someone invites you to go to the ranch or to,

you know, out hiking, you know, here in Oregon or wherever, Colorado, wherever, Alaska. And you're like, you know, maybe I can do this. Yeah. I have been shooting my bow. Same thing with guns, right? It's like I do know. It's like learn the safety. learn the techniques.

Yeah, the basics. The basics first. That's what I've tried to do with this lift run shoot is, you know, a lot of these people haven't been around archery before. So it's just like they probably, they get a bow, they take it home. They probably won't ever hunt. Some of them. That's all right.

But some of them might. And like there's been people who have left here. It's like they've been shooting their bow every day. Yeah. And some people probably never pick it up again. But whatever. It's okay. You never know.

No, it's all good, but that's the, that's the greatest. I mean, I think that's our job as kind of olden the tooth hunters now is like, hey, we need to protect this tradition. And part of that is mentoring people who want to be involved and spreading the love we have for the pursuit and doing it the right way. And that's how you leave a legacy basically. And that's what Roy did with me. And you've done with countless of others. and it's, I don't know, it's kind of our obligation, I think.

Yeah, I 100% agree. And, you know, there's like just different milestones, I guess, as you get as you get older and moving along in life. And, you know, and I still love getting out there, but, man, there's nothing, nothing like watching someone take their first animal or getting in close and, you know, shooting a bear. or elk or, you know, it's very, very empowering for them. Yeah.

And showing them that they can do this, you know, and to watch them be able to take their meat home, cook it. You know, it's not rocket science. No. It's not rocket science. We're doing this for a long time, but we're just so detached from it nowadays. Or some people or some societies are. But yeah, not much has changed.

No. Been doing the same stuff for a long time as long as man's been alive. Do you remember the first time that we met? You and I, well, I met, yeah, in Kodiak, right? Yeah. Yep, I remember, yeah, we were at the Shalikov Lodge. I think you were coming in and we were dropping some guys off. And I remember like, I think that's cams.

Yeah, that's right. And then some guys in our group, new guys in your group and they got the talking. And then I think we saw you guys at the sushi joint. We went over to, we invite you to come over. to watch some videos. That we did. Whose house was that again? That was Jack King's house, I think.

We were too. Oh, Jack King. Yeah, we watched some hunting videos. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah, and it was fun. Yeah, well, Tom Hoffman was there. That's right. I know.

Which, you know, a lot of people don't know who Tom Hoffman is, right? He's not a social media guy, but he's done so much. Super Slam with the Bow. Yeah. All poping young animals, I believe. Yeah. And, you know, the thing is also, uh, Tom was a huge influence in my life for like international hunting.

And a lot of people were like, oh, international, you know, it's expensive, all this stuff. Well, the stuff that I was more influenced by what he was doing was not that expensive. And I would just get to know these people at shows and these opportunities would come about. But the point was he showed me these videos of like Azerbaijan, Nepal, like all. And I was like, wow. Wow, wow, look at that and the cultural experiences. Because a kid from Kansas, you know, my travel was to go to Alaska. Yeah.

I had never traveled outside the country. Yeah, most people haven't. No. And so it was when I first, I think I went on an African trip, 2007 or something. And that was really cool about it at an auction for like $2,500. You know, I was a guy that was like my tit money. It was a lot of money. and but but I was watching these films from Tom Hoffman in Azerbaijan

and like he's showing these mules going up the mountains there's live chickens on the back and that you'd take them up there you'd eat the chickens and all these really cool things and so he inspired me to start traveling abroad because the other thing was as a guide I'm busy throughout most all the U.S. seasons. Right.

I have no time to go hunt deer elk, you know, moose, bears for myself, it's always closed. And so there were these hunts that I was seen elsewhere that were in March or June, July, you know, January, February, early December. And so my most memorable hunts was because of being inspired by Mr. Hoffman watching because he always carried little DVDs with them and he'd hand them out to you.

I got them. Yeah, I got one for sure. And I was like, wow, that's so cool. And so you never know how many people, like that kind of guy has inspired to go do stuff. Yeah, I remember at the time, I think I got a DVD from him. I think there was five people who, five bow hunters who had done the Super Slam and they were all at the ATA show at that time.

Wow. They took a picture of him and Chuck Adams and probably Bob Fromm and, and I can't remember who else. But anyway, that's when I got the DVD from him. And he seemed like just a great guy. I just loved to talk bo hunting. You know what I mean? Oh, man.

And he's so much fun. He actually was in, he came into sheep camp right after us in Northwest Territories this year. Yep, he brought his wife up there. How old is he now? He's got to be pushing 80. Yeah. And he actually ended up going, he was just hiking along. And we were told he was just going to hang in camp and let his wife go out hunting and he would just chill behind.

Because he wasn't sure if he was up to it. Well, he changed his mind once he got in. to camp. Yeah. And decided, nope, I'm going. But I thought, well, he'll be back in a few days probably. He'll burn out and be back. Yeah.

He stayed out there the whole time hiking around and his wife shot a ram and I think at Caribou. And, but I mean, he's, I mean, it's amazing. I only can hope at 80. I mean, he has to be at 80 because when he hunted with me, I think he came and he was 70 on, I think he's hung with this once or twice. He was past 70 when he hunted with us and hiked in 11 miles to camp. Really?

Yes. For sheep? Brown bear. Brown bear. Yeah. Wow. Yep. So he's, you know, just, yeah, it's, I can only hope that I can take care of myself to, to do that.

But he is a prime example of just being in a really good attitude and inspiring people to get out there, especially bow hunting. Yeah. I think is Jack Frost still bow hunting up there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's still getting out.

And I saw. I saw them at the Alaska Bowhunter's banquet, I think, this spring. So once again, another just legend. Yeah. A lot of fun to talk to. Oh, yeah. Just a wonderful guy, you know, and very experienced. And those kind of guys, I've always, growing up, I always enjoyed being around.

Of course, they don't want to hear this, but like I always enjoyed being around older guys, like listening to stories. Me too. I was pretty ADD. but all over the place. But if someone was telling a hunting story, I was stone cold locked in, just sitting there fly on the wall. And just wanted to listen to the story.

And being, you know, as I got older, going to these outdoor shows, meeting these guys, and just sitting there at dinner with them or around them, you just sit there and listen. Yeah. That's all you need to do. Have you been to Jack's house?

I have, yeah. Yeah, went to Jack's once or twice with Hoffman. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I remember Roy and I stayed there. Did you really? Yeah, because the first time I spoke up there at Alaska Bowhunter's thing, me and Roy went to his, I think we stayed the night there. Or I know we went there and we, you know, he's got that huge brown bear. I think it was number two at one time. Yeah. He's got just tons of incredible trophy room. But we were just like, just like you, kids in a candy store. Yeah. I mean, just being around a legendary bow hunter, it's, As young bow hunters, we were younger at that time, obviously, now I'm old and but whatever. But it was, I don't know. I mean, one of the biggest influence I had in this area was we had this bow hunter come in. Jim Hodson was his name. And he had hunted Kodiak a lot.

And he had this photo album, a big 8 by 10 pictures from Kodiak and Big Bucks. And it's just that type of, that legacy or the history, of it or sharing the storytelling. It's like that's like so important to hunting. And so as as you said, when you said you're, you know, normally you're ADD, but unless it's talking about hunting. And that's the exact same way we were. It's like, this is all we wanted to do.

Yeah. We wanted to not only listen to stories of big adventure from these legends, but we wanted to have big adventures. Yeah. What's our story going to be? Yep. And that's what it's always been about chasing the biggest adventure. Yeah.

And being around those guys. you know, you pick up these little nuggets, right, that are important because it's like, ooh, they're not like telling you, this is where you go all the time. You know, sure, they may help you on some stuff for sure. But just little nuggets that you're picking up about being out there or being a camp or hiking or shooting or when it comes time for, you know, calling an elk or whatever. You just learn all these things because, I mean, I feel like I haven't been doing this that long, but realistically I've been guiding for 21 years.

And it's one of those things where I still have a lot to learn. And it's very important that, for me, at least, to keep that attitude that I have a lot to learn yet. And if you have that humble attitude of trying to pick up things from people, because I learn stuff from my hunters all the time that are just like, I look over and see whether they're like, I guess I've never thought of that before. Little nuggets on gear, on whatever, you know. And or they're talking about a stock and they mentioned something and I'll be like, no, we're not going to wait. Yeah, that could work actually. You know, but so it's good to keep an open mind and to pick up things. I think that's, I do think that's not, I think that's rare for somebody in your position.

I think that a lot of guides, I don't know, I don't know, I think they think, I don't know, I know they have a lot. a lot of experience or whatever, but I don't think a lot of them have that open mind like you did. And I think it's like, or like you do, I think that's how you keep evolving is like not thinking you have all the answers. Because as you said, it's like somebody could say something, your initial reaction, because you've been doing this your whole life is like, now, we're not, then you're like, wait a second. I think a lot of guys miss the wait a second. Maybe that would work.

And I think that that's how you're going to continue to just get better and evolve and And just having that open mind, I think as men, it's just not natural for us. Well, you have to stop yourself because I do this. Trust me. I still do the old, nope. And then all this, you know, but I have to, because we're just, our ego gets in the way. And especially with guides, it's very common, especially a young guide, you're in charge. Because think about this.

And I've seen this all over the world with guides. this is their only power potentially that they have. Okay? I am in control of this person that's coming hunting with me. And they're an employee guide, and this is their control. You're one-on-one, and they have to do what I say. And sometimes you just got to let them, you know, I've been with guides and like, okay, if you want to do this, this isn't going to work out, but whatever.

And I've watched, and I distinctly remember times, where old guys would be watching me getting ready to freaking do this train crash. Yeah. And they're like, okay, young man. Yeah. And but you have to, there's still to this day where I get in kill mode, I mean, it is that mode where I'm like, I'll just tell guys, just don't be offended when I, I don't mean to bark orders at you, but when I tell you something, do it. Just please do it as we're going along. Because if you hesitate, it could cost us this animal.

so please just listen. And don't ask questions unless it's like very, you know, like if I'm totally missing something. Right. Because guys will screw with you. Yeah. Well, don't you think? And you start like, well, like, and all of a sudden I'm like, dang it, I shouldn't have done that. Yeah.

So they can go both ways. Right. But you have to, you got to let it in a little bit to make sure you're not overlooking something, especially like with safety and stuff like that. Yeah. That's one thing that's always, you know, we have a hunted together. but one thing I've always admired about you is your it's like I'm not everybody has an ego but you I don't notice an ego you know what I mean you seem like such it's an open-minded personable

um easy going uh confident but not not like not like overly egotistic I mean and that's one thing that's I've always like and we've been out to dinners together and I've seen you interact with people and it is like it is rare it's rare to be such a successful guiding outfitter like you are in such a high stakes business and not have the a noticeable ego because those things you know normally if you're this badass you're killing big brown bear you're the man you're the man you need to make sure people know you're the man you know what i mean and you don't well i mean i first thank you I appreciate that. But like I say, it's one thing, when you've done something for so long,

I mean, you should have a little bit of confidence in yourself. And that's the big thing is your confidence helps tremendously with doing things, especially like doing hard things, you know, and struggles and whatnot. We will get through this, you know. And as a guide, you watch guys start crumbling out there, and you have to be able to pick them up and to express, don't worry, man, this is going to work out. You know, you're a cheerleader,

and you're helping them through situations, and some of them have a lot going on at home or whatever, and you've got to be able to do it, but it's like for me, it's when you're out there and you worry about your tent blowing away, bears coming in, shooting stuff up close, and finding wounded bears in the brush, and making split-second decisions,

and then, you know, you come out and hang out at shows and talk to them. Like, that's easy. Yeah. You know, whatever. And but it's like also I know that, you know, I've been blessed and it doesn't, it won't do me any good to be sitting there bragging about what I do. And I don't think that's, that's not the way I was brought up and whatnot. And I still, you know, I feel so blessed to do what I do, but there's still like parts to me like with social media and stuff that. it's like I like helping people, but I'm also a little bit like,

man, I feel like I'm bragging if I post this about, oh, we did this, oh, look at me with my, I still like really struggle with that. Yeah. About worrying that I'm being braggadocious or whatnot. Yeah. But at the end of the day, you know, people enjoy learning things and seeing things, you know, and it's, it gives you more confidence when, you know,

you post them and people are like, oh, man, thanks. that really helped me out or whatever, whatever it may be. And that's just what I try to be is a little bit helpful with people. And I also know, we both know, there are people out there that are at that desk, right, that only get to get out hunting once, twice a year, right? And they vicariously live through us. Yeah. And they love it.

They absolutely love it. And you try to inspire those folks to be out there. And so we forget that at times where I do. And so there's a lot of, you know, really good people out there that, you know, reach out to me and or you and to anyone in our situations that, you know, that's easy to forget about. And so they love looking at that. And, you know, when people reach, like, oh, man, that was a really cool podcast or that was a neat, you know, photo. Man, that was cool. I showed my kids, you know, man, they love seeing that.

And it's like, oh, man, that's pretty cool. You know, it's neat to that there are people out there that, um, You know, unfortunately they don't, they're not able to get out, you know, like we are. You know, we're very blessed to be able to do this. Yeah, I think it's, but I think it's important too because your story shows that you don't have to grow up in Alaska to. Yeah. I mean, because if you would have looked at, so you're in Missouri, right? Yep.

Yep, Kansas and Missouri. Right. So, and, you know, divorced parents, just living in a small town. And. Very middle class. Alaska is a long way from there. Yeah. So it's like, what's the chances of you being a guiding outfitter in Alaska hunting the biggest bears in the world from that? But the fact that you did it because your passion, your obsession with it led you there. And here you are. Now you've been doing it for 21 years.

Yeah. So to me that your story gives people hope that, and not even just kids, but like young men like thinking, man, man, Cole did this. Yeah. Cole is like, you know, now everybody in hunting, knows your name. Cole Kramer's like, synonymous with Big Bear and Kodiak and living an incredible adventurous life. Cole did it. Can I do it?

And that's, to me, that's the important part of what you post and how you word it and how you carry yourself is it's just like, this is possible. How bad do you want it?

Right. And that's the thing is one of the things I get reached out a lot about, you know, young guys reaching out, whether it be in high school, or guys looking to change their career. And it's a lot of them are worried about money.

And that was one of the things that, of course, when I came in at 18, 19, I was blessed because I had an aunt and uncle in Kodiak that I could stay at their house. But realistically, I was gone all the time in the field, just working for people. But I never asked about money. I just went to go work. Showed up.

Just showed up. And, you know, sometimes I get a paycheck, sometimes not. Some people are like, well, we're not going to pay you because we don't really need you out here. But if you want to learn and be an apprentice, you can come out here. The main guy I've always worked with, he always paid me. But, you know, low amounts of money at first and just all my money went to gear. Mm-hmm. You know, and that took years and years for me to get set up with gear, you know,

for the appropriate gear to not be miserable out there. Right. And, you know, this is, it's very interesting. you think about, you know, when you first started hunting, but then, like, when I, you know, was moved to Alaska in early 2000s, just the gear was so different, you know, we're using Cabela's gear. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. And I'm like, you know, I knew that thing, the Cabella's Bible front to back, you know. I know. But then, you know, like then switching to like mountaineering type of gear and this and that and the other. But just to see the differences and to try, it's very, my point is it's very expensive to get set up as a guide. and that can be a deterrent at times but like I tell guys like hey man you can do this but it's going to take a little commitment a little sacrifice it's going to take some sacrifice and you know for me sacrificed a lot I'm you know 40 years old now not married no kids you know it's kind of one

those things where it's like I've you know I've kind of slowed down a little bit on like I used to a lot of international travel and like go all the time. I'm like, man, I got to start like, you know, staying at home a little more, hanging out, trying to have a little bit of a life. I don't know. My buddy said he just went fishing up there in Kodiak and he said that one of the, there's a girl up there. He said one of the most beautiful girls he's ever seen.

And it is uncodec. And she had lost an arm. Do you know who this is? Oh, I'm not sure. Yeah. She lost part of her arm, I think, in a, in a, like a quad accident. Oh,

but she's in Kodiak and she's smoking hot. So there you go. He said she was beautiful. So I don't know how many how many candidates are. Oh, well, there's actually a couple nice gals, you know. I may be talking to one of them there.

We'll see. No, I'm just kidding. But no, it's, yeah, it's just one of those things that's taking a lot of commitment.

Yeah. Uh, to this. And, And, you know, there's a lot of hobby guides out there that come to do the 100-year, two hunts a year, which is fine. We need those. We need those guys.

But the guys who want to take it full-blown, you know, you got to put your time in. And there's not much money in it to beginning. But where I was going earlier with that is, it's, I mean, you want to do a job that you love to do. And there's going to be hard times, just like anything. Yeah. But if all you're worried about is money. Mm-hmm. you're damn sure not going to be a guide.

Because that takes a long time to make any sort of money. Right. You know, I would say it's a minimum of three to five years where you're like making, you know, decent money. You're an outfitter now, right? Yeah, I'm a guide now. But I still work for two other outfitters and have my own guide service. So it's a mixture of...

So you're rich. Oh, man. It's like unbelievable the amounts of money I have. It's, uh, man. Yeah, you're right. You know, it's, I do okay for myself. Yeah. I do okay for myself.

But it's just one of those things. It's what I do is just like guiding and outfitting. And like you say, it just takes time and everyone, you know, just focus on, if you're wanting to become a guide, you just need to put your time in because you can be an amazing hunter. I mean, you know how this goes. came. You could say to me, hey, Cole, I think I want to come up and be a guide. We both know just because you're a really good hunter doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be a really good guide. Yeah, probably be a terrible guide. I doubt that. I doubt that. But the point

is, we've definitely had some guys come and go that were amazing hunters, but they were really not nice to the clients because they treat it like it was their hunt. Right. And they would run out. after the animal or whatever, but the guy's back there dying and he can't keep up. And it's like, it doesn't do you any good to run over there.

If you can't communicate and or help the person along, you know, and get him there. Yeah. No, I know. What good does it do? Do different things.

And what a lot of it is is the guys find out themselves. They're like, man, this just isn't for me. Right. Because I can't stand it, you know. And trust me, there's definitely times

where I've been pretty frustrated. And we, you know, we definitely try to filter out the people that I don't think are going to be very suited for our type of hunting. Not a good match. Not a good match for us. And then the people that we do take, we still try to match them with the guide we think that's accordingly. You know, because, you know, it's like my buddy Shane who passed away with Jim Tweedo. Yeah.

I mean, that Shane was, I mean, one of the best, I mean, he's a killer. That dude, you put him on that mountain, that animal, anything. Anything. It doesn't matter. And that dude hunted nonstop. When I first met him, he just hunted nonstop. And he was guiding fishermen in the summertime all the way through, then put his sheet boots on and pack and go up in the mountains.

As soon as he was done, he was killing the old deer down in Idaho. and chasing cats and then right back into springs. I mean, it's just never ending. Yeah. And but that dude, you know, because when I was guiding for Lance for a while up there, Shane and I were good buddies, and we never got to actually hunt together for the most

because we're always guiding different guys. We'd get together afterwards, have a beer, hang out. And but like, you know, if there was a guy that could go, it was aggressive, you know, Lance was like, all right. Shane was a guy. This is, Shane's going. And then he'd give me a guy that was like Mission Impossible. as he said, you may have to encourage this guy.

I may have to be a cheerleader with this one. I'm like, thanks. What am I going to get a Shane Hunter? That's what you get for being nice. Yeah, that's the problem. It's not, no one likes a nice guy. Come on. But no, it's just, it's one of those things like, you know, I mean,

so you have to know how to match those kind of people, you know. But, but yeah, it's, it's interesting. Shane, he got, what happens? happened with him and with that bearer? Because he got torn up by a bear too, a year before. Yeah, a few years before, I think it was 2017, 19 or 17. But it was a wounded bear in the... Yeah, wounded bear in the brush.

I think a guy hit it poorly with the rifle and went into the brush and Shane went in there. I think the rifle got caught up in the brush or something of that nature when he went to, when the bear rushed him and got munched on a little bit. hunched on a little bit, but I, yeah, I called him while he was in the hospital and, and just chat with him. And when I talked to him, I was actually in Hawaii at the time hunting access to you and called him and he was in good spirits. Yeah, yeah, he always called me his little buddy.

He was like, well, he got me a little buddy, but you know, that's all right, I'm all good. Like, sheesh, very scary, but, you know, talking about a guy just, you know, got back on his horse and, you know, went out there. But yeah, yeah. Yeah, very, very good guide. But, you know, it's just kind of one of those.

Tragedy, too, because he had young family, didn't he? Yeah, also. Young little girl and wife and whatnot. Yeah. Terrible. But, yeah, so, yeah, it's just one of those deals you never know when things go south, as we were saying earlier. I think you said, like, when Roy fell, didn't you hear on the radio or something? or were you, I thought you told me, maybe it was you,

but you guys had heard somehow. I think I was out in the mountains when I mean, because yeah, I either heard over sat phone call or something like, oh man, just so you know this happened and it was like, really? And then I got, I saw you up at that, that was Alaska Bowhunter's banquet, I believe, because you came up there to talk and then you were going to see the family afterwards, I believe, because that was in the springtime though. That was a while after because he passed in October.

October, yeah. He was on that Pioneer Peak hunt. Yeah. Yeah. Or they couldn't a lake. Yeah, it was the October hunt. But yeah, I went up there and spoke and every time I talk about him, it's still like, I still can't talk normal about it.

It's like every time I think of him, it's like I just get turned into a emotional baby, I guess. But it's like, it's, you know, I just remember that. I remember I think you told me you heard about it and couldn't believe it, something like that. But yeah, I mean. Well, those people, obviously he made a giant impact

and it's just one of those things where, you know, it's a piece of your heart and your mind, body, and soul that like is, you know, he's there, but it's gone, you know. And that just, it's like, do you want that pain to go away? No. No. No. Yeah. I mean, that's the same. Like, I want to be able to think, you know, I still sit here. I'll be on a hunt or at home. And I think about my Uncle Robin.

You know, he passed 2007. And it's like, I mean, I just wish he was here to see this. I wish he was, you know, I wish that we could, I wish I could show him this. I wish that he could see what his sons are doing. I wish he could meet his grandkids. You know, I just, you think about that. Yeah. You know, you got to, you know, you know, you got to, you know, you take it in for a bit, but it's just, all right, all right, you know, then move on. But it's like I still like having that emotion, you know, it shows that that person was special to you, you know.

And it's, you know, same thing with Shane, you know, I had a hunt that I was going to be doing that was, you know, deer and fishing and some other stuff. And I was like, oh, yeah, Shane would be perfect for this. And then I just kind of put my head down like, oh, dang, you know, thinking like he's gone you know and it just but i like is his his his his name would pop up my brain like oh yeah i should talk to him about this and it's like wait no i can't i can't talk to him yeah you know and it's you know everyone has their ways of dealing with stuff and you know like this

year was a rough year my my really good friend derrick his his wife passed away ruby blake and and it was very very uh it was rough really really hard on us and obviously very him and his little baby daughter and everything. But it was just like, I mean, you just don't understand it, how it could have happened, you know, and all this stuff. But it's just very, very difficult. But when you sit there and think about, you know, man, this person really was a big impact on my life.

You know, sometimes you don't always know it. Obviously, Roy, you did know it, but some of us that lose someone in our life that was a friend, and you realize how much, how important that person was in your life. You know, it's hard for, hard to explain, right? Everyone's different. Yeah. It is difficult to explain for me at least.

It is. It's like, for me, it's like these hunts go and they go great and then it works out the way you want. But it's like there's something missing because we'd always, whether he would kill something, I remember he killed a big, big bear on Codiac and he called me on the sap phone or if I killed, I'd call him afterwards. And so it's like that part's missing, the sharing the part or even being together on a hunt. And so it's never, it feels like all these great experiences are just a little bit less than they could have been, you know? Yeah.

And it's like, I'm sure you have things you'd want to share with Shane or hear about his thing. Yep. And without having that, it feels like, I don't know, it feels like it's great. The experiences are great, but it's just not the same is how I feel about it. Yeah. And it's, you know, I've definitely set on the side of the mountain. before and just had a conversation and just send it up and I just you know I said I've said it out loud and want them to know you know Lord I hope maybe you can pass this on to him maybe he's listening

maybe he can hear it maybe he can't but it's therapeutic to kind of send up thoughts especially when you're on the mountain side yeah it's just it's almost like you know writing is therapeutic writing a letter or note to someone who's maybe gone or just or not, but just writing stuff down is pretty therapeutic, I think. And I like being able to sit there on the mountain and think, all right, I told him how I feel. You know, I've shared something with him, you know, on the mountain side, you know, or that he's looking down and watching what's going on, you know.

And it was like with my Uncle Robin, I was like, man, so many things were lined up so good when he passed. Like he took care of a lot of things right before he passed. It was really interesting. And it was just like, man, I mean, it just sucks that he's gone, but did the good Lord need him for something? Yeah. Because he was such a good guy. Everyone loved him. And it seems like that's the way it goes. Yeah. There was a reasoning that they needed him, you know? And it's, you can choose to dwell in all the negative things or you can choose to look at it in a positive light, it still hurts. But, you know, that's the way I have to personally look at it is apparently, you know, the good Lord needed him and it was his time.

Yeah, it's hard to question that. It's hard to question it for me. Yeah. And it's hard to make sense of it sometimes too because it's like you can't, you know, because you don't understand everything. But yeah, I think, you know, and in your line of work, it's, inherently risky. So I mean, you are going to lose, you're going to lose men. It's just the way it goes. It's just like it's part of the job. You know, it's like you're putting yourself out there.

There's going to be challenges. There's, you know, the country, the land, the weather. You never know. And so it's it's going to happen just like, you know, you can't control those plane and I don't know why Jim crashed. What happened with his plane? Do you know? You know, I don't know any, I don't know all the actual things. I know I think there's been some reports, but I couldn't say with positivity. Last night I got picked up from the airport, the Uber driver, older gentleman, who is a pilot. He has his own plane. He flies around everybody, drop skydivers and this and that.

But he, he's, his, a guy he works with New Jim, and he brought up Jim. Really? And he didn't know him personally, but he loved watching the show, of course, and flying wild Alaska. And, you know, just he talked about it. And, you know, I had talked with some of the guys there. And one of the guys that was on the ground, but he wasn't watching when the plane took off.

But it was just kind of like messing with camp, it took off. And the plane had just, he'd already done one load out of there. That popped right off the ridge, no big deal. And a lot of those ridges, as you know, they're up higher. Yeah. because one speculation was saying maybe he hit a tree. And it was like, I don't think there was trees up there. So why was he down there, though?

Yeah. You know, type of thing. And Jim's not a showboater. Right. So you know what I mean? It wasn't like showboat around, drop it off the ridge trying to do. So I don't know. And I'm not a pilot.

So I can't say, but I just, I personally felt like there was either a catastrophic failure in the plane or maybe a health problem that happened with Jim. Who knows? I don't know. Right. But I just know it was a very, very, very bad, bad crash. And they were dead instantly. Yeah.

So, because my buddy ran down there immediately afterwards and they were gone. So, you know, so it's just hard to say, and like to say, I've flown off those ridges with Jim many of times years ago and excellent pilot. Yeah. So there may be a report. I just haven't. I just haven't read it, you know, but... Normally the wind on those ridges, it allows you to pop up pretty quick, you know,

because they use that wind to get up. But, yeah, hard to say. Yeah, it's hard to say, you know, yeah, just one of those tough deals. It happens all the time, it seems like in Alaska where some of it's a lot of crashes are due to the pilot, and then some are catastrophic failures of some sort, you know.

But just like with anything, a lot of these pilots are, you know, they read all these reports so they can figure out how to handle these situations when it does happen, right? And it's just like with us with dealing with bears or sheep goats up in nasty trains, how do we deal with these situations when they arise if something of an emergency comes up? Or how do we stay out of this situation? so an emergency doesn't come up, you know, but ultimately over the years, things are going to happen.

You know, we've had guys have heart attacks out there, guys falling. I've fallen, you know, thought I've broken stuff over the years, but it's just a matter of... Is there a pilot Jim Lechner? Did he die? He was up there in Kodiak. He was who me and Roy used.

Lechner. There was a Lechner, but it's not... Or maybe it's Jack. Jack. Jack. You know, I want to say he is still alive, but not flying. Oh.

But yeah, he would, well, yeah, I think he's still around, but I could be wrong. I'm probably thinking of another guy. He may have passed, but I'm not 100% sure on that. But, yeah, he was an interesting guy. Yeah, yeah. And I never got to fly with him, but I heard a lot of really cool and interesting stories. Yeah, it's just like, I just never forget when you think you're supposed to get picked up, so you're laying there and you're just listening for every plane, you know?

And it's just, my God, seems like time could never go slower. Yeah, and every little, you're sitting there and you're trying to hear it first. Yeah. Is that wind or is that a plane? Yeah. And guys will be sitting there. Plan's coming. I'm like, dude, that's a C-130 flying over.

I don't think that's for us. It's a military plane flying over. That's not for us. Yeah, there's no other quite feeling of desperation when you're waiting to get picked up. The hunt's down or whatever. Or it's like, okay, we're out of here, but I need the. plane. Oh, our guys the other day, you know, um, guy just waiting and like planes coming in,

a big rain squaw comes in. So the guy to like turn, I mean, he's in the valley and this huge squall cane that was like super windy and the guy turned around. So they're waiting another day. They're like, ah, the plane's right there. And they'd already been stuck a couple of days. So that's just kind of the way it goes, right? I don't know if you remember that story where Roy and Dwight Shoeh were on Kodiak and they got

stuck for like, I think it was. 21 days. Oh. Because where they were hunting, had to land on the river. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the river froze. So, you know, they're landing on floats on the river and it's just like... Do you remember what year that was?

Let me think. I know I hate being called out. Like, what year was that? It's like, I don't know if I never could remember the... Because we went through a couple really bad freezes. It was probably like 2012. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because there were some really, really bad.

I remember there was some bad winds and then it got really cold. People were froze up in places and that's probably, yeah, man, that may have been. 2011, 2012. Yep, yep. Maybe 2010. I don't know, but they were stuck for, I just remember the story that, you know, the pilot came in, was going to bring them food and dropped a bag of food. Couldn't land, but dropped a bag of food and Roy said they're expecting like pizza or something.

or something like that and it was yams. He was canned yams. From, from, uh, Lettner? I don't, I, I can't remember it was him or not at that time. It's like, yeah, let's drop them yams. We couldn't find anything else. It's just like, this is what, could they've been eating deer for, you know, for three weeks, basically. But yeah, I mean, that's the risk of Kodiak.

It's like you always take extra food, extra fuel. And it is kind of comical, though, because, you know, these pilots are doing their best. You know, they really are. And they got to be cautious. And you'll hear the stories because we plan on, you know, potentially staying in there days more. Yeah. And the stories, oh, we're out of food. We're out of food.

How many deer did you shoot? You know, and of course, oh, we've got six deer. And it's like, okay, you're not out of food, dude. You've got fuel. You've got food. You're going to need to eat some deer. Right. Yeah, but, well, we just need to really get in.

Yeah, we know. Everyone needs to get in. We know you're frozen. So is everyone else. Right. I know. It's the real deal when you go up there. You got to have good tents.

You've got to have good gear. You've got to have plenty of food and fuel. And it's just one of those things. I don't know. I was going to ask, you said that. You said a recurve guy shot the bear in the head. But did you say that was going to be like a world record? Yeah, because it was 29 and change at the time.

And that at the moment, it was 28 and 516s or whatever it was. So it would have been over. Yeah. Is that the biggest bear you've killed? No, because in 2018, my buddy, Chris Kamak actually shot the world record on the peninsula with me. Oh, did he? Yeah, so for archery. And so that was, the record was 29 and 316th, and his was 29 and 5, and then it dried 416th.

so it tried one 16th less, which we were all like pins and needles. And so it beat the current one by a 16th. Wow. So is it the current world record? Yeah, still is the current world record. You guided it. That's awesome.

You know, honestly, and people could think I'm being cocky about or whatever, but... I am the best. No. No, but what I was going to say is it wasn't throughout my guiding, it's, you know, with bow hunters and starting, my first bow hunt I was on was probably like 2003, four, when it happened, it was like, all right, we got it. Cool. I mean, I was surprised,

but it wasn't like, I can't believe this. It was just, it honestly, in my brain, I was like, okay, we got it. Like, it was just like the goal. I knew we would, it just felt like we knew we would get it. Right. Yeah. It would just, because. is, the thing is, on our bear hunts, the thing is, you're, you're hunting large, mature, boars, okay? And with targeting those types of animals, of which that's what the biologist would like you to take, you know, some of them want a well-rounded harvest, but most of the ones and especially for us guides, our targets are large, mature boars. And when you're a bowhead, hunting guide that I don't treat them any different than a rifle guy than a rifle guy.

Some bow hunting outfitter say you're going to shoot the first bear we can get up on if it's a single bear that's what you're going to have to shoot well why if you know how to hunt them and can get up on you know the situations we don't we don't need to make some sort of adjustment for our side we're just we'll just wait for a large mature bear yeah and so with with doing that the is you're you're killing really old boars for the most part and those old boars have large skulls and obviously very large bodies and so it just kind of comes with it yeah right so it's just like anything if you're going to shoot young animals you can't expect them to be in their prime right and if you're hunting old mature animals you could get a world record yeah i mean it's it's just

one of those it's not like we were we knew nothing of that bear yeah we were not hunting world record bear. We're just hunting a big male. Male. Yeah. And I had no clue. It was that big because the thing is with bears, those skulls are within, obviously, within the skin.

And you can have a lot of fur on the edge of your heads where they look really wide or appear really long or vice versa. They can have a big overbite, underbite. Yeah. So how you're measuring those skulls. So that's how you would classify world record bears by skull, right? and I'm saying this for the audience, is you take the length and width of the skull,

add it together, and that is how you get your measurement. 28 inches is Boone and Crockett or, like, record class. And I don't even know what Popin Young is, but it's pretty small to make, I think, like at least on Kodiak, what I mean is most single boars are going to be in Popen Young. It's set pretty low.

Might be 22 or 21 even. Yeah. Yep. And so you're going to get in Popin Young but the but like the you know 28 is what Boone and Crocett is for like rifle or just any of that that type of deal. But regardless, a lot of those old older mature bears are all in the 27s to you know high 27s and then you get in the 28s. But the thing is I have the very first recurved bear that we got with the guy built his own bow and arrows and everything. shot at their own Kodiag. When I watched that bear, we watched it for like two days before we got him killed, I thought 100% sure this would be the world record

because it had like arthritis in his hips. Like he looked very, he wasn't injured. He was just, he was ancient. Ancient. And I thought, this is as big as they get. He's,

you know, right at 10 foot, you know, whatever. And when the hunter got a shot off and, you know, killed the bearer,

you know, he was 27 and 3, 16s. That's all that bears ever going to be. It's just as genetics, just like some people, right? Not everyone's going to be 6'5. Right. Maybe you'll grow there eventually. Probably. I'm almost there, but no, I'm just kidding. But it's just one of those things and so you never know. Yeah. But the whole goal is it doesn't matter. It's just the old mature animals we're going for. Same thing with goats. I don't really care how long the horns are. I'm trying to harvest old mature billies right and a lot of them have you know worn chipped off horns and whatnot but man when they're

300 350 pound animals you know huge glands behind the horns and they're just you know very mature yeah that's what you're going for it doesn't matter if it's nine inches eight and a half whatever it's just a very very old you know animal so with bears it is the outcome of hunting old mature animals and it just so happened to be a world record you know and so i keep saying we're going to bring that's on the Alaska Peninsula and about every single bow hunter I take out I call Chris say well hope you've enjoyed having it it's going to change are the bigger bear on the peninsula right now um Codiak has it I mean I've taken more Boone and Crocket bearers on on Codiac okay they're both great areas like our areas are both spectacular but peninsula you don't need to draw

right it's it is a registration over there yeah so yep you don't have to draw on the Alaska Peninsula. They're both amazing. And of course, here's the deal. If you're an outfitter and that's where your area is on the Alaska Peninsula, you're course going to say it's the best area. If you're on Kodiak, of course Kodiak is the best area. They're both spectacular. They're both magical. You know, they're both really, really impressive. I just try to line up hunters and take them to, number one, where we have an opening. Number two, we have some guys that just want to hunt the Peninsula or want to hunt Codiac. Some guys have hunted the peninsula first and now we want to hunt Codiac.

Yeah. It's a, you know, Codiac is a majestic place. It's magical, you know, but both of them are really, really cool. You know, they're both amazing. And it's funny because, you know, every single guy, when you walk up to a booth and you're looking at the photo book and they're like, wow, wow, those are big bears. Man, I wish. And then you book the hunt and you're out there and like, gosh, and you're out there five

days and I wish, man, I wish I got a bear like that guy. Man, I wish I had that guy's luck. I'm like, you realize every single guy has thought the exact same thing on this pamphlet here. They all were like down in the dumps for the most part. Very rare does it happen just so fast. Everyone's in great spirits and then you go shoot your bear. It's done. It's very rare.

Most of them are like, dang. You got to earn it. Yeah, they've had to earn it. The highs and lows. And all of a sudden it just happens because bear hunting is a lot of boredom, you know. Yeah. Yeah, what were they say like 90% boredom, 10% sheer terror, whatever it is. But it's, I know throughout the years, you just get this confidence.

And the only time that I get nervous is when I can hear the plane coming. Like if a guy hasn't got a bear. Yeah. It's like, oops. And that happens, you know. But until then, you never know. Yeah. You never know it can happen within an instant.

How many bears have you killed now? I don't know. It's the only reason why I would know because I didn't really like having to keep track. I just, it's like, oh, what's my kill count? I didn't think it's very respectful. But when we're doing our federal prospectus and having to ride in for federal areas and the state for guiding areas, you have to like count up all your stuff and submit everything to them. And it's pushing right at 100.

But, you know, I've done way more hunts. and a lot of, you know, there was a lot of unsuccessful hunts. And then you have, you, because that's, that is the thing about guiding bow hunters. Yeah. A lot of unsuccessful hunts. There's no guarantee. But I get that respectful. I mean, I don't know how many bulls I've killed, you know, because it's just like the counting the numbers.

It's like, I agree. Are you chasing numbers or are you respecting each life? You know what I mean? So I get that. I was just, I just know. sheep guys, I've heard a lot of guys talk about they know exactly how many they've got it. So I didn't know. Right.

Actually, it is funny because, you know, there's been years of like, I probably killed by the, but I really honestly didn't know. Yeah. And I think it's pretty common. People just throw out numbers and like, oh, I guess I really haven't taken that many. Or vice versa, like, oh, I didn't know I've actually taken that many. So, but yeah, it's just one of those things. I don't know how many hunts I've guided.

there's probably, there's several unsuccessful hunts in there. And that's just the way it goes. When you're hunting, when you're hunting and it's 100% fair chase, you're booking a hunting trip. You're not booking a kill. Yeah. And so it doesn't make it any easier if someone doesn't get something, but it happens.

You know, at a guy this spring not get a bearer bow hunting, he's been with us. It's funny, oh gosh, dang, man, it's been a long time, so they haven't gotten a bearer. And he's, you know, great attitude, great spirits. I said, wait a second, you're the last guy I didn't get a bear with. He's like, gosh, dang it. Yeah, you're right.

And he goes, you know, my daughter says I'm not very good luck. And I was like, oh, well, thanks for telling me. But just great spirits and stuff. But it's like, I mean, if a rifle hunting, you could have shown him. But the thing is, people have to understand, if you're going to come on a archery, brown bear hunter, archery hunt where you could pick up a rifle. Yeah. I mean, you are choosing to handicap yourself.

Make it tougher. make it tougher. And so, you know, your guy just trying to do his job and getting you within 100 yards, 50 yards, you know, 20 yards, whatever, it's, that's just the way bow hunting goes sometimes. Yeah. I mean, I've been, like I was telling earlier, we've been within 10 yards, 15 yards, not get a shot off.

I have some heartbreaking footage of guys full drawn, getting ready to touch that release on Giant Bear and just gone, wind, something, saw us, whatever. And it's like, oh, God. Yeah, that is heartbreaking. I've already got that bear's skin. He's mounted. I'm getting, you know, the biggest tip in the world after kill this bear.

They're gone. That doesn't happen on rifle hunts. You know, I mean. Not too often. No, it's like if they're there, you're going to get it, probably get a bullet in them. And bow hunting, yeah, so much can go wrong. I was going to say, you know, being a bear guide on Kodiak is kind of one of the most legendary type profession. It's like what type of, do you know the history of guides on Codiak and like, is there, is there people you've looked up to that have done your job and like that are legends?

Yeah, I mean, from like the early days, like the Madsons, like there's some good books out there, like the early, early guiding, you know, and Harry Dodge wrote a book. It's still out there, still available. Codiac and it spares, lots of history. I mean, we're talking like plate tectonics on how it, how Kodiak was formed, the native history, natives and Russians coming over, then the early guiding in like Madsen's in very early days. He's got a lot of bios of like early guides and a lot of the native guides that were very good guides. And so, but like Madsen's were like really, really cool, very respected, very renowned guides. Then you then you had the Pinell and Talafson, the, uh, the,

the Brown Bearmen books. Those are really cool, really needle books to read, lots of historical things. And just those are so important, I feel, because just reading those stories, that's the thing that people kind of discount now is like reading history about hunting. Guess what?

Hunting has been hunting for a long time on these things. You can read and learn a lot of things and learn a lot of mistakes that people made or really good things that they've made. or did and learned, it will save you a lot of time. And so I love reading those old stories, but a lot of them are really funny, too, the hilarious client stories.

Those are the best, like the weird clients you get and stuff. But no, like moving up to Kodiak, I was very, very fortunate to talk with Mr. Dick Rohr who runs a legendary camp. Actually turns 80 on Friday this week. And he is a legend when it comes to Bearer. guides he's still out there doing stuff his son runs a camp now sam and he's our alaska professional hunters association president um but uh they run an amazing camp and uh dick was he's always been like he was

the first guy to talk with me when i was in high school i asked my aunt do you know any guides up here in kodiak i could talk to uh and she goes you know i know the people that own the subway their dad is a bear guide that's all she said she said she said maybe I can ask him. So here she is. I said, Hey, do you think your dad would talk to, you know, my nephew when he comes up?

Yeah, yeah, tell him to call him. So he said, yeah, come on over the house. I'll talk with you. So I was up on a deer hunt, my senior year of high school. And so I wanted to figure out what I need to do when I move up. Yeah.

So he sat down with me, had a cup of coffee, and kind of explained guiding to me. And he said, first off, you need to move up here to Alaska, be in Alaska and resident, put your time in, you know,

dedicate your time to, Alaska. I was like, okay, yeah, I'm doing that. I will. And he goes, okay, well, this, you know, you have to be a packer for this amount of time. You have to be an assistant guide. Then you can become a registered guide. Because I do nothing on like the legalities of guiding. I just thought, I'll just move up there and become a guide, you know. And so he laid out kind of steps of to become a guide. And, and then, you know, when I moved up there, you know, within two days, or no, I got off the ferry and I called him and said, hey, Mr. Roared, this is Cole, Kramer from, you know, moved up from Missouri. I'm here. He goes, oh, okay,

you moved. I said, yep, I'm here. He goes, when did you graduate? I said, we can go. And he's like, wow, okay. So I'm up there. And he goes, all right, well, thanks for let me know. Then he called me back like an hour later. Hey, we're going to camp if you want to come out and we're going to do some chores before the fishermen come in a month. And so we're going to paint and dig a water line out, households and stuff. You're welcome to come. You're not going to get paid, but if you want to come out, you're welcome to. You can talk to my son.

He's a guy, okay, cool, sounds good. So I went out there for a week just doing chores and hanging out and, you know, asking tons of questions. And he told me, he's like, hey, I don't really have a place for you, but we'll help you get placed to be a packer somewhere. And then they introduced me to the outfiter I've worked with for, I still work with Paul for 21 years, Paul Shervenack up there. He's been like a dad to me pretty much and an excellent mentor.

You know, from day one, it was always teaching me how to run a business. Not you're my guide. Right. You're my slave and worker. It always was about, okay, when you're going to run your own operation, you need to do this. This is how we do the paperwork. This is how we do. you know and I found that out kind of early on that was rare right because I just

wow this is really nice for him to show me all this stuff okay and then if I went to go work for another outfit and I'd say hey so blah blah blah blah asking about paperwork type of things and I'm like why aren't you asking this like you know this is kind of confidential stuff I'm like oh okay I didn't know I just this is way I was brought up over here so I learned very quickly that the people that I met early on I was very fortunate. They were very, very good guys. And anything that I had questions on, I could just ask them, you know, whether between Mr. Roar or Paul, of which Paul didn't have any kids, so he called me a son in Alaska, you know, and actually were neighbors that bought a house right next door to him.

Oh, really? So he washed it over my house and everything and when I'm gone. And he's just a great guy, you know, great individual. But, you know, there's a lot of mentors that I had along the way. I wasn't just, oh I did everything on my own. I have everything to thank them for helping me out along the way because, you know, as we all can look back, like, man, how did I get here? And I'm really, I wouldn't change a thing on like the people I had involved in my life, you know. We can learn a lot from books and everything, but man, it's really a blessing when you actually

have people in your lives that you take the time and those people see that you're taking the time and then they will invest in you. Yeah, yeah. And if you don't, you know, these employers and whatnot, if you don't take initiative and show them that you are there, no matter what you do, if you're not showing them that you are committed to your job and what you're doing, your profession, if you're not showing them, they're not going to invest upon you.

But they will, and especially nowadays, if you're a committed person, I don't care who you're, are what you look like, you know, man or woman, you, it's, I hate to say it. I mean, it's kind of rare. You know, and if you show that you have good, hardworking efforts, you will go a very, very long ways. Do you care? Do you care about this? Yeah. That's the thing. If you care, it's unbelievable how far you will go with, with this. So you talked about, you know, you used to like to read the stories and learn a lot. So how are you documenting all your experiences? Oh, man. Man. Man. Man, I wish I could say I had a journal.

A journal from day one. I had some. And I started early on doing some journaling. And I was advised by a guy actually was guiding in Australia some years back. And guys who actually lived up in Saldatna, Alaska. He told me, he goes, write it down. Write it down, young man. He goes, you'll think that you can remember it, but you can't.

Yeah. He goes, you need to write it down. And it's hard. You know, for me, But I know it, it, you need to. And I, and I love it, seeing like these, you know, these old guides who are kind of getting out of it, they'll write a book. And I love getting those books and reading their stories. And I think, you know, it's like with military guys, some of their military peers apparently get frustrated if some guy writes a book or whatever branch are in, this and that.

at the other, but it's like, hey, man, that's this guy's experience. Yeah. This is his life. Right. I look at it. Like, I had a group of guys come in, and we were training in August, and they're still active. And we were talking about the books thing and how they didn't like how some guys did this and some guys that.

And I said, you know what, guys, here's a deal. You guys are thinking about your community. What about those guys' kids? What about the grandkids? I would love to read a book that my grandfather wrote. Right. And if it was, I mean, I would write it, sure, you can do it in a tactful, tasteful manner, you know, not bragging about yourself,

but you're just documenting your time and what you did in your profession. And it's like writing it in a way that you're telling it to your kids, you know, because it's hard. You don't always know what you've done. I mean, you're close with your kids. Right? They get to see, but it's also like, but they don't know your internal thoughts.

Right. All the time. And it would be really cool. And obviously, you wrote your book. And that's awesome because I really enjoyed reading your book and when I, but it's cool because then you get to write down your thoughts. And people don't always see that and or hear it, whatever, right? Yeah. And so those, I've always thought it was really cool.

No matter what you do, I think it would be, it's pretty cool, especially when you get to that time. it'd be a pretty cool thing to write a book with all your adventures. And frankly, to me, I'm a guide. I'm supposed to be successful. Okay, that's my job. Yeah. But it's the hilarious stuff and the goofy freaking clients that we have. Your stories would be epic in a book.

I mean, because I don't know, have you read Silver Tip? It's a Paul Schaefer. It's about Paul Schaefer. but he also hunted, they hunted Kodiak. And so it's silver tip recurves. And that's Paul Schaefer's that started that company. But then he hunted also with Roy told me about this guy, Bart Shiler. And he used to work at Foster's Taxidermy up with where Roy went.

And they hunted Kodiak a lot. So there's a lot of stories about Kodiak in there, which is why it made me think about do you follow history or what do you read. But those stories, it's like, I don't know, your stories would have to be, I don't know, I want you to journal them because I want to read about this stuff. And you've been doing it 21 years. You're only 40 now. Could you imagine the amount of story, epic stories you'd have? It would be a classic book.

But you're right. It's hard to remember all the details. Yeah. No, and you're correct. And I keep wanting to do like kind of make up. format page of where like you just kind of fill in each day with the questions this that the other weather because also it's for your area because we we do keep some logs at times for like where we're seeing bears because I work with fishing games from the time on on surveys and whatnot and

the time that where they're at time you know the visibility weather conditions all sorts of whatever and so it it is important I think like you said there just even for myself because even looking back on what I have journaled, it's kind of hilarious to see what I wrote at times and it's like, I forget, you know, and I'm reading a book, like a new book sometimes like, oh, wow, I can't, I forgot about that. Yeah. But it was cool this last, like, say this year or two ago when we had to re-up permits and whatnot. I had to go through and like relive and look at a lot of different things since 2002. And it was like, oh, wow, yeah, that was a lot that happened there. Yeah. But I've, you know, it's just one of those, one of those things

Someday I will, but I love and I encourage anyone and everyone to like, hey, because I know number one, it's like pretty therapeutic for people just to sit down. I know it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Yeah, but the storytelling part and you know, you have, you said around 100 bears, it's like every experience of that, there has to be something in there that stands out or you could learn from or people would be interested in. It's like in storytelling is what keeps hunting alive, you know? You talked about you loved hearing the stories from the old timers. I loved hearing Jack Frost hearing those stories. So it's like you're not the old timer yet, but a hundred bearer.

I mean, that's epic. Yeah, and it's kind of funny. Guys will reach out to me about a sheep hunt or a bear. I post something and someone will reach out, hey, would you mind writing a story on that? And I say, man, honestly, it just, we flew in there. we, it worked out perfect. I don't really have much of a story for you. We just got in there and shot this thing.

I was like, but maybe you should ask this guy, because I'm pretty sure that was the most epic adventure of his life. I don't really have the good story for you, but I think that guy probably will have a better story for you. Yeah. Because as a professional, you're, I mean, you're not numb to it, of course.

Right. I think it's, you get to, very cognitive of it, but it's different. It's different. Yeah. And so it's interesting to see it through a different lens of a person's first time and the excitement. And so there's just stuff like I said just because we shot a giant ram doesn't mean that it was the most epic stock ever. Yeah.

But you remember, like I remember the first bull I shot at. I didn't know if I could pull my bow back. My arms felt like they were asleep, right? And so now I don't, now I'm like, whatever. But at that time, so that's. that how I felt on that first bull was how your your hunters feel with that first bear. Oh yeah. You know?

And so yet to you, of course you're not. You've been through it so many times. But yeah, I don't know. I just love the history of hunting and the history of what we do. Well, and it's in the way you have to look at it. Like I say, it's not just, it's not for us potentially right now. It's further on down and in the future. And so that is the thing.

And once again, for the future, like I look at it for other guides and what to expect and to let them know, like, hey, man, this stuff's been happening for a long time, right? This isn't anything different you're going through. This has been happening forever. And the other big thing is, like, for young guides thinking they got it hard. And it's like, are you joking? Go back and read the Brown Bearman in the Penel.

Or like the Pinell and Tauffson books and like looking at these Packers. that we're wearing cotton and snow shoeing up and over mountains to get a, you know, 150 pound, 200-pound hideout, you know. And, I mean, with a packboard, you know, and we've got the best, we've got it. Yeah. Well, the best it's ever been. Right.

We've got the best gear, the best boots, the best anything and everything. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine the actual weight difference. Oh, crazy. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure someone has it somewhere. We could probably Google, but, like, if you have a guy that, normal bear hunter with the wool and then like the rubber, rubber boots or just big pack boots or something. And then it is a pack frame, backboard and whatever. And this way,

this, then now what we have now with all over gear in there. Probably half the weight they had. At least. Yeah. And so I love reading some of those old stories. And I love reading like mountaineering books and whatnot and just in some of the names are spacing you right now. But like just realized. that man, men have suffered a very long time doing these adventures, and they don't just give up. They push through. Yeah. They endure.

And you learn a lot about yourself when you're out there, and especially with guiding and young guys knowing that it's like, hey, man, don't worry. You'll get through this, okay? And then once you're done, you're continuously setting these benchmarks. I remember like with sheep hunting. And that was like some of the toughest things that ever done in my early days. And I just remember like, you know, we'd be packing out of somewhere. And I was like, all right. Well, that was the longest packout I've done.

And that was, you know, 16 miles. Okay. That was a long packout. That was a heavy load. We made it. And then it'd be like, okay, that one was 20. Okay. That one was 24.

Okay. And it's just like, boom, boom. But there's all these hard situations, you know, like Codiak. we have issues with areas freezing up all the time. And I've had to pack out camps for nine guys, like gear camps and stuff, for like nine of us total. And pack it miles and miles along the frozen shores and rocks and ice.

And it's taking us a week to get her gear out. I had to cancel a trip because everything was froze up. And it's just got to get a gear out. And it's like, well, might as well just pack it out. And it's like, well, we can't. got through that. All right. And it's just,

those are like the cool things, but then you read about, uh, uh, dang, there's a couple amazing mountaineering books, but there's some that where they did the first expeditions of some of these mountains and summits where it would take them just a month,

just to portage their gear. Mm-hmm. To the base of the mountain. And then another month to get it up to like the base camp. And then another, you know, whatever. And it's just old, old, old school gear. I'm like, okay, I'm worried about packing gear for three days or four days.

Yeah. They packed for months to get to the face. You know, and it's just like in like the old guide stories, like I said. Yeah, those are those are just. But you need to have these stories. Yeah, someday I will. Yeah. But it's hard, like you almost feel like you can't live up to that sort of stuff, you know,

but it's, you know, because I'm a fake, you know, at any moment we're going to be exposed, right? We're both just freaking. Yeah. posers posers man and so the book will expose me on how much of a poser I am

yeah had to stay out overnight once no and that's the thing the books the you know the goal of something like that is to educate and the stories

the funny things and just the stories because like to say it's pretty cool for you because you know your grandkids your kids obviously

they see it but like grandkids great grandkids that's the thing I look at. It's going to be pretty cool to be able to look back at what grandpa did. Because I wish, I just wish, that my grandparents had done such a thing. Yeah. You know, my one, grandpa was an electrician.

The other one was just a, you know, a farmer. Yeah. You know? But I would love to read a story about them. Yeah. But, you know, your experience is the biggest adventures. You know, some of the biggest adventures in the world, the biggest bear in the world in the most epic country in the world, that's special.

So I just want to read that. I want to read your experiences because I love, I love sitting down and talking about them. And I, you know, I love reading about them, but I like hearing them. I like all of it. And, you know,

Joe killed that bull yesterday. He sent me this big, long text with the details of the wind and, and, you know, took his boots off and two pairs of wool socks. It's just like, yeah, that never gets,

and that was an elk hunt in California, which there's no life or death anything. So, but it's still so, it's still, people, people, I put it up and people said, oh man, I felt like I was there. So that's how, that's hunting. Yeah. You know, I mean, we need, we need to take the reader with us and share that. It's so important. Well, and it's cool because also when you think about it, you know, Joe's been hunting for, I mean, several years now, right?

Yeah, 10 years probably. 10 years, yeah. But it's cool when you think about, okay, if you had a new hunter. all right now sit down and really think about what you did yeah and write a story yeah write your story because it actually makes you like think about wow okay the wind was doing this it felt like this i noticed that i noticed these birds off to the side you know then i noticed this buck over here then there's all these different things that are going through your brain and and those are the interests it's not just the okay we knocked the arrow moved one bush the next bush

and we shot. Like, there's just a lot that goes on. You're immersed in it. Yeah. And I think it's pretty cool to see that. And we can go through life here on the outside in town not being immersed in shit. You know what I mean? So when you're out there and you're immersed in it, because you have to be, if you're

going to kill, if you're going to be a hunter, if you're going to be successful, you have to be able to notice all those little details and still read the animal and still read the wind. But it's like, it's everything. And that's like so empowering. But to be able to share that, too, is pretty special. But anyway, all right, I'll work on that. All right, I'm going to start working on that.

It may take me several years, but. If nothing else in your captions, you know, I mean, I think you do a good job of sharing, sharing different parts of that. So, I mean, Instagram is valuable for that, if nothing else. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, that's the thing. It's almost like, I'm sure it annoys some people like, just post your picture.

Got it done. But like, I feel like you're doing a disservice. I don't like. You know, there's just, and that's cool. people don't want to get in their details but like i like no one you know yeah i saw i see captions sometimes or they'll say stuff like uh got on the board you know or and i'm like this isn't we're not scoring shit what do you mean got on the board what is it contest with who's who's playing this game you know and i don't so i don't like to just you know put one through the pump house what

i don't like that i like how joe did it you know what i mean i like giving reverence to the moment into the to the experience. I do understand it's like whatever, people can do whatever they want. That's fine. I prefer reading what happened. You know, let's hear about it. What were you thinking? But anyway.

I agree. I agree with you. Do you have, so do you have anything amazing coming up? You're going to potentially write another book? What's in the, what's in the hopper for you? Yeah, I just agreed to another book actually yesterday. Really? Yeah.

So it's, yeah. got to get to work on that. Do you like doing that? I mean, you've been writing for a long time. Yeah, I mean, I like, I think as we talked about, storytelling is important. And, you know, the first book did impact a lot of people. Yep. So this one will be, that one was about indoors, you know, just whatever it takes.

You just get through it, hard work. You can achieve whatever you want. This one will be called undeniable. So it's like, how do you, how do you stay? How do you keep producing? You know, it's not just accomplishing a goal and then you're done. It's just like, how do you become undeniable? So that's what this one will be about.

But yeah, I mean, it's, it is. It's just, you know, we're storytellers. That's just what we do. So it's, I think it's important. I think that's what keeps society engaged and wanting more and growing. Well, yeah, like it or not, there's a lot of people inspired by you. Oh, thank you. Believe it or not, I don't know if you know that, but it blows my mind of how you've been able to reach across the lines of, you know, so many people that aren't into hunting whatsoever, all the runners and just athletic people that, I mean, you are the hunting spokesperson, basically.

So you do a damn good job and just got to keep it up. And like you say, it's pretty undeniable. I remember, you know, I remember when you and I were talking about sheep hunting. Yeah. And you were saying you were going to run a hundred and then you're going to run your first 200. Yes. And you're just like, yeah, I want to come sheep hunting with you. And so we were talking about that.

And I was like, you said, I only got five days. Yeah, after the 200. After, and I go, after what? I go, is it just called the 200? Like, no, we run 200 miles. And I was like, oh, have you done that before? You're like, no. Yeah, that was like, is that what that was?

Yeah. So I remember I text you because you ran the 100. Yeah. And that was, you had ran 100 before. I'd done 100 before. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, this is my first 200 coming up.

Yeah. And so I text you, though, after the 100. I was like, how you feel it? Yeah. You're like, well, you're like, and I mean, obviously you did it, but you're like, I was thinking about that sheep hunt, man, that may be a little rough to do after that, because you were literally going to get done with that, is it 240? Is that what it?

No, it was a 205. The 205. The 205. Bigfoot, yeah. So you were literally going to get done with that and you were going to fly the next day and we were going to have five days to kill a rabbit. I was like, dang, man. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I mean, honestly, I, I mean, honestly, I, Okay, now when you now, because like, I mean, we knew each other, but that was your first 200. And I thought, okay, if we had 10 days to like get you into camp and if you needed to chill, and I'm like, okay, we could do. That was like so nervous for five days. Yeah. And that was like really rugged country too, didn't you? Extreme rugged country.

Because you said you hadn't taken people back there, I think. Yeah. And so, but yeah, but I mean, we still need to go and get this figured out. We will. We will get it done. But when you did that 200, though, I mean, I felt like it's just undeniable. Like, sure, 100's hard. Yeah.

But 200 and over 200. Like, I just, I remembered on my end of people in what they said about you. Yeah. It went from like, you know, whatever, Cam Haynes. On my end of, like, people I'm around, you know, whatever cam. But to like, did you see you in 200 and something? I was like, God, dang. Like, it's undeniable.

It's just one of those things. When you do it multiple times, like, yeah, people, and so it's like with, you know, people can get luckier, people can push through, you know, a hard hunt, get lucky on something, whatever. But when you're constantly doing it or the repetitions are producing the same successful outcomes and you're also showing people that you're enduring doing this hunt, the race, whatever and you're actually finishing it because a lot of people can go do one or two things and they fizzle out yeah but just staying involved in in the commitment to it and showing up day in day out it's like it's it's it's it just comes along the way when you stick with something over time you know don't worry i shall have haters what no way no way no way no we all do we all do yeah i i appreciate that, yeah, telling that story.

But yeah, I mean, I do, I still think about, I was telling Tanner, I think that we were supposed to do a sheep hunt. And I was like, still one of the regrets I have has not been able to make that happen because, man, I've only killed the one doll. Yeah. I need to get back up there. And, you know, honey sheep is just like, it's,

that is next level also. Big bear are awesome, but the sheep with the bow is something special. Sheep, yeah, sheep to me with the bow, I would say is probably the most difficult to me. Like hunting Alaska sheep with a bow is very difficult. Those sheep are hunted. And, you know, by predators, by us. And their eyesight is so good.

In bow hunting, you have to be next level to do that. And, you know, I've had some guys reach out to me and say, hey, yeah, man, I want to book a sheep hunt. and I, you know, okay, well, in bow hunting. And okay, well, what have you done, like mountain hunting with the bow? I did an elk hunt or I'm like, okay. All right. I mean, that's fine. We could potentially go do that, but do you want to like maybe hold off a year or two

and go invest and go do another mountain hunt potentially with your bow to learn some things? perhaps go down to Texas, hunt A free-range Audad. Right. Because that is an excellent bow hunt. It's difficult. In a lot of places, they're extremely difficult to hunt. They're a sheep. But it's not like the highest stakes.

Right. You know, you can still backpack. You can still, you know, you can drive around and go hike. But you're not 10 days backpacked up into a place and, you know, coming to failure on muscular failure, you know, guys wanting to quit. Right. The weather's not going to kill you either. Yeah, but the point is the repetition, getting in on something that is so dialed,

and their eyes stick out of their head so they can literally see behind them almost. Their field of view is so large. And, you know, when you have multiple sheep in a group, there's always something watching. And learning how to be patient and sneak one tiny little minuscule movement and then just knowing now is the time

and to run forward and draw and kill that. that thing, you know. Yeah. And that takes time and people freeze up and it's heartbreaking to watch guys on like those sheep hunts that try that. And they find out like, oh boy. This is something like a little bit of that I really didn't realize how tough. What are your sheep hunts going for nowadays?

I mean, shit's getting expensive. You know, I don't do a ton of it up there in Alaska, you know, but I'd have to to check on that. But yeah, they're anywhere between 20. 25 to 30 grand. Yeah. You know, and they're, same thing in Canada. That used to be the cheaper one.

The doll sheep is like, yeah. And they still are. They still are. Dolls are still the cheapest. I mean, unless you draw something down in the States and you're just hiring a guide for, you know, that that's different. But in terms of booking a sheep hunt and going hunting without drawing something potentially, yeah, the dolls are, you know, around 30 and everything else is just skyrocketed. Oh, crazy.

It's, yeah, it's, it's pretty crazy how what they're, what they're at now. A lot of the other sheep hunts, big horns and, you know, 50, 60, 70. Then same thing with the stones. And then your deserts can be kind of all over the place. Yeah. Depending on where you're hunting and whatnot. But, but I, you know, I love hunting sheep. I've been on, most of, I haven't been on a big horn hunt, I don't believe.

But in terms of like guiding and being out there, went to Mexico, guided. deserts several years, but like I love sheep hunting, but I don't like have the crazy sheep bug or anything like some people do. It's a lot of fun. I really enjoy it, but I, man, I put so much stress on myself. And I was like, I reached a forward, like, I need to kind of de-stressatize myself on touch on certain things, you know, and there were some other riding on the walls. It wasn't about the physical nature of things or anything. It was just like the pressure I put on myself to do stuff. And my sheep hunts, I would go with a few other outfitters and I'm just going and guiding

for them and whatnot. So they weren't my areas. And so I just try to line guys up in that, you know, if a guys want to do a bow hunt, then we'll go here for bow hunting sheep. But if they're wanting to do a rifle hunt or different physical aspects that they're capable of doing, one place or another, you know. So, but yeah, sheep hunting is a lot of fun. And I do think, you know, I love my goat hunting.

I really love goat hunts. That's what I do a lot of. But sheep hunting is pretty unmatched when it comes to, like, distance especially, you know, and just a grind. Yeah. The sheep hunting grind is real. It can be, you know, pretty crazy. I've always been, I tell you what, I've been very blessed on all my sheep hunts. I haven't done a ton of sheep hunts.

but I've only had one guy not get a ram over the years and he missed. And but just because I was just so adamant on sticking with the sheep guys, you know, didn't always like carrying their camp with them all the time. I was like, man, I don't want to leave this thing. I got to watch him every step he takes and we'll figure out his weak point because some of the guys that go with, I knew I couldn't hike them all over. So I had to watch that ram for days and wait for the opportunity. wait for the opportunity.

Anna Vorsick was the first woman in history to kill a grand slam with the bow. And she drew like a tote permit. And up there in Alaska, and she's an Alaska resident, her husband. Yeah, she's a stud. And so they were given the choice to either fly in or hike in. And we said, if you hike in, you may see more opportunity rather than flying. She said, yeah, it's hiking. They're like 20 miles in there.

and I had her husband. I was guiding for the first six days, six or seven days. Is that Ken? Yep. Yep. Yeah. And we were on a ram for six days in a row within 100 yards. Wow.

And he was extremely patient. And I'd sneak in there. We'd be watching him. And I think the closest we got was maybe 60 yards. And I remember like him walking. I said, Ken, I think you can sneak up there. You can get up there to. you know, 40.

If you go now, you can do it. And he's like, no, we'll just watch him. And I mean, it was killing me. Well, guess what? Anna's guide got really sick and had to hike out. Yeah. So we were making a plan after that. And he, Ken, let's take her over there and show her that ram

because they hadn't been able to get on a RAM yet. Yeah. So here we are, day seven or eight. We take her over there. And the first day we get in on that RAM and she shoots that RAM. So like Ken's patience actually was the blessing. Allowed her to get that ramp. Yeah.

And she became the first woman in history to shoot her grand slam with a bow. Because she'd been on like five other doll sheep hunts or something. And finally got it done. It was like really, that was really special. I bet. It was really, really cool to see. She is a stud. I mean, she was loaded down.

I mean, because we were several miles past where our camp was there. And so to come packing out of that joint, you know, 25 miles. with her like super cool and I mean and she was like that ram right there right by the door that's in the toke with Roy oh really yeah very cool yeah so you get you got you went in the toke there or you did he just shot that one he took llamas in there because it's such a long pack to get back in there yeah yeah but yeah that's a nice ram too with the recurve dang any I give me people you know in Anchorage or around Alaska some of these guys go in for sheep with the bow

or they draw the archery permit. Yeah, I really want to try to. And I tell all these guys, I'm like, man, I'm all about shooting, you know, big rams and whatever. But you've never been on a sheep hunt before and you're getting ready to go in there with a bow. And you've never even been on a rifle sheep hunt. Just like, because a lot of these archeryers,

it's like any ram is legal. The one I did was any sheep. Yeah, right. And it used to always be any sheep, and then they, I think, changed it some years back to any RAM now or something. And I tell guys all the time, one of the Navy SEAL instructors there in Kodiak had a tag this year and he was going to have to go by and I'm like, just if it's a male and you're within range, I would personally take this shot. I'm like, you're new to this. You're not a professional when it comes to sheep hunting. It's hard. Just sometimes. get in close to sheep with a bow. You know, and you have to play it, but you don't just like get up on the first one and whack it, but in terms of, you know, play it out. But it's like some of these guys feel like,

I don't want to shoot this younger ram because someone may look down upon. I'm like, who cares? I know. Who cares? Shoot what, if you're excited, if it is exciting you, same thing I tell guys with bears,

you know, residents that are going out for the first time or, you know, finally draw a Kodiak tag or something. I'm like, hey, man, enjoy yourself out there. Yeah. If you think this may be the only time, don't worry that it's not a 10 foot or 9 footer. If it's exciting you and it trips the trigger for you,

that's all that matters. Yeah. That's all that matters, okay? It's one thing if you're hiring me or a professional, that's different. A little different. Let us make that call for you. We'll help you get in it.

But if you're by yourself, you're with your buddies, like the families, like a lot of, talk to a lot of father or sons that are going to go out like, like, hey, man, I've heard a lot of stories of regret from sons not shooting bears with their dads there and their dad passed away. It's like, God, I wish I would have shot the bear the one time I had. But I was just being, you know, headed in my mind. I wanted to shoot a 10 footer.

We just never saw it. But we were on this, you know, eight and a half or nine footer. And it's like, man. Kill the bear. Enjoy your, especially when you're with family or friends or something like that. Those are good, good times. and enjoy yourself. Go out there and make the best of it.

Don't worry about what people will think, you know, on how big something is. Just get out there and enjoy yourself. And guess what? If you start shooting some sheep, start shooting some bulls, start shooting, you know, bears, whatever, guess what? Wrap it up. Then you can start tightening it up a little bit and being a little more specific,

you know, on what you want to hunt. that ram I killed with Roy is like that is the only one I'd killed for many years and that's any sheep and I'm like I some people did say about oh you shot a young one or whatever it's like man they give a hundred tags sometimes there's one sheep killed yeah yeah exactly you know like anything is pretty much any ram is popin young so I'm like it's good enough for me you know four and a half years old we'll call it good yeah no and it's it's funny because I've I've buddy my drew a tag in there this year he had a and i needed to find out still how he did but uh um he uh he was told by some locals and maybe one guy in an archery shop there like oh yeah no no one kills rams in there or whatever and it's like just discouraging talk yeah and i said hey eff that guy that guy for him telling you like dude i went in there and killed a ram sure i was a guy but but I shot a beautiful eight-year-old ram and just, you know, took my time, did my thing.

Yeah. Had patience, watched the sheep, just got in there. It was amongst them, watched them for days, and then shot one. I waited for the right moment. You know, just get amongst them, as Tom Hoffman says, once you're amongst them. But it's just one of those things where there,

that is the, that permit, you will see guys. when I remember coming out with a ram on which one uh the October hunt we were back in like the Euclutna area and I came out with a guy we'd been there we had hunted sheep 10 days we changed locations once but uh we were packing out and I every day we were camp right below the snow line and we go sit up there for all day in the snow freezing our nuts off that's rugged country too yes but these sheep would come out of the out of the cliffs and we would try to make a move on them. And regardless, we finally got this ram that went off

and he bedded on this little spine that we could go up and around. And finally got in there. My hunter shot this thing, 50 yards, killed this ram right before dark. And it was like, oh, my God, thank God. And it was my first archery ram that I was guided ever. And so I was like, you know, really thankful to get it done. but we were just so cold. And when we came out the next day,

we got out there to the truck and here's a couple guys, you know, offload and four-wheelers and, you know, some rubber boots and this dude had a recurve. And I was like, he goes, oh, you guys got a ram? I said, yeah, yeah. And he said, oh, right on.

Was there a lot of them? I said, there's a few up there. Yeah, there's enough. Cool. I said, you move something? He goes, nope, nope, going to go up there, sheep hunt for the day. And I'm like,

Dude, we just came off like 4,000 feet. Yeah. And this dude's got muck boots on, sweatpants, like some camo sweatpants, and, you know, a little day bag, a recurve, and four-wheeling up in there. And it's already like, you know, midday. And I'm like, are you camping? Nope, just going to go up there and look. And so that's what there's a lot of those guys do that.

Or get to that point and they're not going to go to the next level. But then there's also a lot of kill. that are locals up there that know what the heck they're doing. But my point is, just like a lot of places, not everyone goes the extra mile. They're going to draw the permit. Some people won't show up. Yeah.

And some people will go the first mile, but they won't go mile five, six, seven, eight, or 20 where you really need to go. Yeah. You know, but they have that opportunity to go out hunting. Yeah. You know, and that's the reason why they give out probably 100 permits. Right.

But you're right. There's some years there's one or two, and I think the year I killed my ram in there was, I think there was two or three killed out of all those permits. Yeah, yeah. It's not easy. It's not easy. But, you know, it's just one of those things of, you know, it's funny.

If you're pushing hard and your bow hunting, like if I'm rifle guiding, I'm struggling to get within 350 to 400 yards, right? But if I'm bow hunting, I'm in that 100 yard range all the time, struggling to get within, you know, well, But what, because it's, yeah, yeah, for a bow shot, you know, it's one thing if you're by yourself, but man, when I'm guiding guys, I, it gives, I'm a little nervous with guys that want to shoot, like that can shoot far. Yeah.

Just because I've seen so many things. And I'm so I'm just like, oh, man, we just got to get a little closer. Yeah. Get a little closer. I know. Everybody thinks they can shoot at 80 until they get out there and it's on an animal. Super steep. You know, the other thing.

is, and that's the fun thing about like going to those total archery challenges, is it exposes a lot of things. Like a lot of people don't check their bubble when they get on a steep terrain. And they're just trying to focus on everything else. And that exposes that. So you can have those conversations when you're on the mountain side shooting with your buddies, you know, at that foam. Yeah.

That like, oh, wow, why did you shoot so far to the right or left? Yeah. You look at that level? Yeah. You didn't look at that bubble, did you? Yeah. And a lot of guys, or their third axis is off. Yes, 100%.

Yep. Yeah. That's what Wayne's good at checking too because they put it on that hooter shooter and put it at the angles. And a lot of guys, I mean, even if you do everything perfect, you're a foot off because your third axis is off. Yeah. Yep, that is one thing that, yeah, it's always very, very interesting.

This year on a goat hunt, I wasn't guiding this one by the outfiter Ruth was talking and he goes, man, strike one, strike two. He's missed it, you know, 30 yards, 40 yards, missed or 50. And I said, missing high, low, left, right, way left, way right. I go, okay, tell him to check his bubble. And then he finally shot one the next day. But it was just, oops, but guys, they forget that on that stuff. Well, and also there's something about sheep because I know I, you know, you probably know these guys,

but there's guys in Colorado and they had the sheep hunter and he was just missed at 25, 30, 51, threw his bow, broke his bow, threw it off the mound, went and got a new bow, came back with a brand new Matthews, all dialed in with everything, and then missed three more times. So it's just sheep, you know, obviously it wasn't the bow.

So people get the sheep fever back because the stakes are so. freaking high on a ram it's like a lot it's once in a lifetime for a lot of people yeah i would say bears and sheep will do that yeah goats will do it for the steep terrain i've had guys they don't get too i mean guys they may get a little nervous with a shot because the animal but it's mainly the terrain well they'll shut down right on steep terrain for goats yeah but the bear and sheep yeah it's different and like like say with bears you just see them do stuff that you you're like you're like like, hey, hey, snap out of it, you know.

Or guys will be at full draw and the bear's running away and I'll say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I have to like literally grab them. Right. So they don't shoot at this bear running away. Yeah. But they're so. Make crazy decisions.

Yeah. Make some different decisions. And they don't really always understand that they're doing it. Yeah. So that's always sort of our job. Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy for sure.

Mm-hmm. Well, Cole, thank you. This has been a long time coming. I've been wanting to sit down and talk with you and share stories for years. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for coming. And, man, I just appreciate everything that you offer the hunting industry and how you help so many people and just the way you carry yourself. It's, I mean, it got a lot of respect for you.

Thank you. Well, thank you. And it goes the same to you. We appreciate you and all you do and how you respect this community and everything. So, and congratulations both of your sons and Trude on that world record. Yeah, 80100 pull-ups, very impressive. Yeah, you did a great job. Well, thank you.

Thank you, sir. It's been good. Appreciate you. Thank you. Bass Pro shops and Cabellas know that everyone has their season. Deer season, turkey season, duck season. Every animal is a unique challenge. Every hunt, a different experience.

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