Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 049 - Nate Endicott & Wyatt Sebright

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Join us for a discussion with Wayne Endicott’s son Nate and Wyatt Sebright, a friend of Nathans. Listen in as Nathan and Wyatt talk about their 2023 big buck successes, their bowhunting lifestyle in Oregon and more. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Endicott Films: https://www.instagram.com/nathan4you/ https://endicottfilms.com/  Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code Cam for 15% off Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first Order Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Blokes: https://blokes.com/cam use code CAM for 20% off labs Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro 0:04:27 Raising Kids as a Serious Bowhunter 0:06:45 2023 Oregon Rifle Season 0:12:05 Technology in Hunting 0:16:15 Core Values & Protecting Hunting Areas 0:25:16 Nate’s Background in Bowhunting 0:31:51 Nate’s 2023 Buck Story 0:50:54 Endicott Films 0:53:14 Oregon Blacktail Hunting 0:58:46 Wyatt’s Buck Story 1:14:45 “The Pinnacle” 1:19:19 The End of Nate’s Buck Story 1:21:37 Wayne Endicott as a Father & Business Owner 1:26:27 Nate’s Love for Running 1:27:54 A True Obsession with Bowhunting 1:31:49 Nate’s Long Term Goals 1:35:07 Wyatt’s Long Term Goals 1:37:38 Nate Simmons 1:39:30 Bad Luck Shots  1:44:14 Wyatt’s Mantra for Better Accuracy 1:51:48 Outro: The Most Important Lesson from the Herd Bull

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move is so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammering Collective with the Young Guns, Wyatt Seabright, Nathan Indicott.

Thanks for coming in, guys. Yeah. You're on the Keep Hammering Collective. What do you think? It's pretty neat. I appreciate it, Cam. Yeah. I, you know, there's a kid around here.

He must work for you, your PR person. Oh, Red. Yeah, he's been on me about you got to have white seat right on. You got to have Wyatt on. When's White coming on? So anyway. Yeah, and I just wanted to, you know, put it out there to make sure that I was not sending him out to do that. I'm like, dude, you're making me look like.

I don't know. What are you trying to do here? You're going to make me look like the jazz. I don't know if you were or you weren't. I don't know. That's a good kid. He's a lot of fun. Yeah.

No, he pulled up and took a picture of me in the truck and gave you a shout out. So, but I just want to know even or I want to say even without anybody saying it, you know, I've been watching you guys for years. You guys are dedicated to bow hunting. It's obviously what I love. It's what I've been dedicated to for my entire life. So I've been watching you guys and, you know, it takes a while. It takes a while for bow hunters to really give respect to each other.

It's like, oh, this guy, okay, we'll see what he does next year. And then next year, okay, pretty good. But we'll see what happens next. You know, it takes a while. Yeah. But you guys have been doing it a while. How long have you been bo-hunting first? I think I started bow-hunting when I was 13.

I'm 28 years old now, so. 15 years. Yeah. It's kind of like all I've ever cared about, you know, as far as, you know, being passionate or becoming good at anything, that's what it's been since I could, you know, before I bow-hunt. and it's all I've ever, you know, I feel like that's all that I'm good at now. I guess just bow hunting.

I don't know. That's all I've ever wanted to be. Good at having kids. I am good at having kids. Yeah. Shout up to my wife, Shelby. Three on the way. Yeah.

Three of. Unless, yeah, don't be asking for three on the way, but I don't. That makes it a lot busier. Yeah. Yeah, no, Shelby's great. I love your family. It's been cool seeing you have success, but also see Ray's family. Same with you, Nathan.

I mean, how many kids you have now? Yeah, we're at four. Four, right. Jeez. We're just trying to keep up with that. I know. Yeah, that's what we're doing. We're just going head to head here on kids and animals.

And I think, I'm waiting right now, but, I mean, why it's younger, so he's got time. He's going to come back. On kids or animals or both? Oh, nice. So you're, but you're 30, what? I'm 35. 30. Yeah, see, so you got a couple years on them.

Yeah, exactly. Freshly 28. Well, not it's fresh. A couple months. Okay. Yeah, so that first person talking is Wyatt talking about he's got three. Do you have two and one on the way? I have two.

Yeah, I have a five-year-old boy. He's Bridger. Yeah. I have a two, almost three-year-old girl, Josephine. Okay. She's my wild child. Yeah, those are cool names. Third one on the way.

Is Bridger after Bridger from Revenant? Yeah, Jim Bridger. Yeah. The Mountain Man. I know. I know. That's awesome. I actually kind of came up.

Well, that was something that came across our plate, and then I was El Cunning in Wyoming. Oh, I think my wife was nine months pregnant at the time. And I was decided that Bridger, that fit. Perfect. That was going to be the one. I'm like, this is good. Perfect. If it was a boy, we always wait to find out.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I came out, I had Bridger. Yeah. And how many do you have? I mean, you said four, but what was the boys and girls? A girl, boy, boy, boy. Girl, boy.

Oh, three boys? Yeah. Yeah. And we're Aya East and Eldon. And so Iya is actually named Ayakua. So if you recognize that from... I don't. What's that? Oh, seriously?

No. Okay. I don't want to explain it right now because of the secrecy of hunting. Does that make sense? Okay, got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, now it does. Okay.

And then what was the other names? Easton, he's the next boy, and then Eldon is the youngest. He's two months. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, love my kiddos. Of course.

Of course. Well, you know, and that's a big part of being young. hunters too is if you're also raising a family to be a good bow hunter you have to be out there i mean it takes time there's no shortcuts in bow hunting and with family obligations kids wives jobs it's a challenge huh had old it the whole way yeah so how how of nathan how have you've navigated that i mean how do you balance work life bow hunting passion balance mud water is something i've been using daily since i started the podcast it's supposed to be an alternative to coffee, but actually add it to mine for some extra health benefits.

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$20 off your subscription and your free frother. That's mudwater.com slash cam. I guess, you know, our partner, like my, my spouse, Sammy, she, without her help, like, none of it would be possible. And so it's really just a teamwork effort. And it started early on. And she just knew right away, coming from my family, it's like, hey, if you're marrying into this thing, then you're going to understand how important hunting is. And Sammy was on the same page for a long time. And I took her hunting before she ever really knew much about hunting, right? Like I was taking her out and getting her exposed to it.

It was really hard at first. And then she saw an animal die. That was hard. But she got over it. And then she's like, I want to hunt. I'm not sure if I could kill it. Boom, she killed an animal. And so it was this progression of bringing her up into hunting.

And now she's like, I wish so bad that I could go. But I want you to go. I want you to go get one. Go get one. And so she's like my teammate. See, that's that, you know, a lot of guys don't have that. A lot of guys have to like, it's an issue with the wife. You know, so it's, it can be, you know,

we need bow hunting because it makes us who we are when it's a struggle or a fight just to get in the woods. We got her a deer this year. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I had Ben fit on my chest. I had the two on the double bob. It's like literally a comedy show.

And the whole time I'm thinking like, is this ruining everybody else's hunt because my kids are so loud of shrieking and just screaming. And we actually got a pretty buck. Nice. Yeah, he must have been deaf. Or a long shot.

From all the rifle shots going on this year. There's a ring and you couldn't hear the difference being a child scream and the ring of his ears. Like the popular spot this year. Yeah. We won't talk about that. It was like literally a highway where we shot this spot. Really? Yes.

Yeah. We actually had spectators. When was it? First week in November. Yeah. It was a day before Jeff got here, probably the third. Yeah, it was. I hated how late rifle season went this year.

I got real depressed there. Oh, I was seeing just giant buy. Just every everybody who went out killed a giant buck. I'm like oh my god, there's going to be no deer left. You had to be well, it's really sustainable. So yeah, next year we're going to see what it looks like next year. You had to be it'd be dedicated to that bow and arrow to bow hunt black tail this year. I was talking about it with my buddy Ryan and I'm like trying to think I'm like well who's bow hunting this year. I'm like me Nathan Wayne. As far as like the notable names, I don't know. There's like six of us in the valley that are bow hunting. money this year. Everybody else, because for those that don't know, the rifle seat, well, everything was pushed back a week for whatever reason this year. So both season didn't even end to October 1st. And that is late for archery, for elk, obviously. But then that pushed rifle deer season back a week,

which put it like into prime rut almost. Pre-rut, prime pre-rut, which is when you kill box. Because they're running around. The bucks are cruising. And they're rifle hunting when those big bucks are up on their feet. And it was just. devastating because yeah bucks were just getting crushed. Technology is at an all-time high. There's stuff that it's getting used out there that it's like

yeah it's crazy. I went to the ODFW meeting you know it was two years ago the one in Sizzler where they always talk about the changes in regs and they're announcing this right after talking about population changes from global climate change and yeah anyway so after they present the date change I raise my hand I'm like the only one in the room that's like, does anyone realize this is like prime pre-rut? It's going to be a slaughter.

Yeah. Why? Why is this happening? And they said, it's just how the calendar falls. That was what I was told at the commission meeting. It was crickets in the room. I mean, there's room full of people. Yeah. And we're not concerned about that and the future of it. And so then this next year's really no difference. Yeah, November 8th, I think, I mean, it's just going to rotate back two days. But they say like, well, this is when the calendar falls. But that doesn't make sense. You could also just re-rotated back. I could have rotated back. Like you had it. I might just go back a week.

I did say that. Mike, why couldn't just go back? But I mean, they're not there to make the changes. They're there to announce the changes. Right. It was official.

Yeah, they're not getting any input then making the decision. Correct. It's done. Yeah. I think this year was a rough year. I took part token somewhere. I part token.

I had to take people. Oh, yeah. I wasn't going to rival hunt, but I had to take some people. I love getting out. Yeah. We all love just getting any excuse.

And so, yeah, we all took people out. They all killed bucks. So it's like, can't sit here and, you know, we can't complain too hard because we were involved also. But yeah, it was a rough one. For bow hunters to see. You want your fellow hunter to be successful, but not that successful. Well, there's limits because, yeah, I mean, you just can't kill all the deer or the breeding bucks. I think the only complaint is the breeding bucks got whacked.

So in a couple of years, we see population decline. And then people are going to be a little upset about. how poorly managed it is, but we all took place and we all took part in it because it was legal. That was the legal hunting season, so why not? Tanner made a good point that, that hopefully the guys who went out there and killed big bucks all of a sudden think that they're like these great hunters and so now they hold out, like these years coming down the road, they hold out like for that one, remember that one time I killed that John Buck?

I'm going to do it again and then they just get shut out for like the rest of life. Is that a rival hunting works though? Not usually. Not usually. but yeah it's uh anyway it's just it was a weird year um but god it was fun to be out there that's for sure yeah it's like i was just again my buddy ryan we were talking about it and it's like i think of all the months in the year i look forward to september the most you know you get done with this and then it starts to be summer you lead up to the the archery l kind of that's kind of the you know

that feels like the peak of your year but man once that it wraps up you get me into november By the end of November, I'm like, this is my favorite month of the year. It's just the blacktail. It's so much fun. So addicted to the black tail. Probably because we grew up here. It's just we're so familiar with the change in the season. These special little deer we get to chase around.

Lots of people asked, are you going to switch to any legal weapon season? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I had. No, why? They're like, the dates are prime. And I'm like, but no. It is so special that time that I have, you know, with my bow out there.

I want to trade for anything. It doesn't matter if the dates are better. They can push us outside the rut. We still did good. We still did good, even with the screwed up season. Yeah. I mean, you guys killed giant blacktail. We'll get to that.

I killed a pretty good black tail. So, I mean, for this year, we got done. In all, in all honesty, I'd have to credit some of my success on killing that buck due to the fact that season was as late as it was because I had to sit back on my hands and scout instead of hunting. Right. Same. My target buck got whacked. Yeah.

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They support hunting and conservation. and give back immensely to the veteran community. They're offering followers of the podcast 20% off on your first purchase to the coffee club or order on their site using code Keep Hammering to get America's coffee today. So I would not have killed that buck and I've been focused on a different year.

Got shot by muscle loader when I was going to go after. Really? Seriously, I brought the sheds to show me. We shouldn't be complaining. No, yeah. Hunters complain. No matter what.

Hunters complain no matter what. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the technologically. And I'm not, you know, I'm not a rifle hunter. I take people out. And usually I'm just trying to figure out the gun and like, because usually somebody we borrowed a gun. Sure, sure. Because I don't even, I don't even know what happened to my guns. But anyway, I took this runner out, Kat Bradley, and we were getting her set up with Kevin Acres gun. And we're at the sweet range. And I never shoot a rifle. Never. But anyway, they had this long thing out there at 988 yards. And I'm like, I'm like, what, what do caliber is this? And I was thinking like, God, I wonder if I could hit that thing. And,

you know, there's a program on the phone. So you get the scope dialed in. You get the yardage dialed in. It's got all the stuff dialed into where you hold right on at 988 yards. It's like a 24 power scope too. So you dial it all the way up. You got to rest there. And I'm not even having a shot, whatever, nailed it, nailed the steel at 988. So a thousand yards. Yeah. And for somebody who never shoots. That is ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah.

It's largely, it can largely be plug and play. It's what it is. If you have the right person to set you up. Yeah. Some of them out of the box, you know, you can pay enough money to get them out of the box. Crazy. It's wild. And then, you know.

I mean, to me. Yeah. Now there's kind of a, there's a method people have for finding deer right now. Yeah, not good. The thermals. Yeah. It's illegal. But the amount of people we're seeing running around the woods with them.

Is it illegal? Yes, because in some states it's not. Yeah, no, it's absolutely. In Oregon. It was a scout, locate or hunt. It's illegal. So that means if you're a hunter. It's worded with it.

Scout or hunt using a infrared. Or locate. Yeah. I've never even, yeah, I've heard about it, but I thought it was like in the taking of big game. So, but Oregon says you can't use it to scout either. Can't use it to scout or to hunt. But.

Hard to justify. It's. tough to, I guess it's tough to enforce. I don't know, because nobody's been popped for it, but there's a lot of people doing it. Really? Yeah, there's probably some guys listening that are looking down at their shoes right now

because they know who they are, but that's okay. Yeah. I know. That's always a battle of technology. You know, I mean, it's hard to know where to draw that line. It is. You know, you want to be an ethical hunter. You want to be able to deliver a merciful kill on the animal.

and so there's things that help you become more proficient at hunting and do that. Yeah. But there's also things that like is, what is this? This seems like it's something else, you know, like, I don't know. When all of a sudden something can't hide. You want to. Right. And what I don't like that.

I want to have some kind of a challenge. What I don't like about it, because we were talking about it, I think, when I took, I can't remember maybe I had Truitt down there. And if you have to glass a giant unit for a, Bach, that's hard. It takes hard. It takes time. But if you can put thermals up and just like just pass over and see heat, yeah. You're you can you can you can you can scan you could scan you could scan and efficiently cover like 10 units in the time it would take me to cover one. Right. And then I'm still going to miss stuff even with the best glass and being an experienced glass

you're still going to miss that. Right. Well that's part that's part of being a good blacktail hunter's glassy. That was the huge thing. You know it's it was always had a ton of respect and still do for a lot of rifle hunters that, you know, man, that guy's, he's a really good glass or he knows how to locate bugs and he's where to be. But now it's like, there's become such a shortcut anymore that everything's jaded. Even if a guy is doing it right, it's tough to well, yeah. So if you can wave, if you can wait a heat seeking optic type thing or heat registering optic, see the buck and then shoot it from a thousand yards. Does what's about at that point? Is that, is that even hunting?

I mean, what's the hunting part to it? I know. I don't know. You're becoming the selective killer at that point, I guess. I don't know. I just really want to promote things that align with my thinking and core values in hunting. And so a lot of the stuff I do is try, I really try to do that. And I hope that people would gravitate towards feeling good about the hunt as opposed to I killed something really big.

Yeah. And so that's a lot of work that I do with my outreach and the way I can. Your outreach. Do you have a program? Or you mean just your influence or your messaging? I'd say that people contact me for help. And then also I dabble in filmmaking. So I think within the filmmaking is where I try to try to.

Oh. You know, I try to encourage the journey. Yeah, sure. Like the way. The deeper meaning. Correct. Yeah. Within it.

And so hopefully people grab onto something more than just that killing process of it was really far and I made that shot. And I potentially use something that was. is illegal. Like, hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully it's that, you know, with my small reach, it's that, hey, it felt really good about how I hunted. And I did it with hard work. Yeah. And that's way more meaningful than any other means. You can still work your ass off and kill a buck with a rifle. Like, I mean, seriously, there's a right and a wrong way to do things. And I don't want to, I don't want to

make it seem like we're bashing rifle hunters or whatever because. I'm not bashing rifle hunters. Because people can look at what we do and say like, well, you practice it, you know, 160 yards with your bow and it's like how are you any different i get i understand i get there's technology advances i get it so we're just saying that it would be nice you know the drawing that line is always difficult but it would be nice to err on the side of let's uh let's keep the journey you know kind of what you're talking about in the experience pure as pure as possible yeah let's let's let's keep it to her we're still hunters we're still immersed in the land we still have to have woodsmanship and and understand animals.

We still have to have all these things to be successful. Because that's, I mean, that's what makes hunting what it is. Sure. That is hunting. Using your instincts, your intuition and everything that you've learned over the years

and putting it together to put yourself in a path or sneak into, you know, these animals on their home turf. Right. Really good to stand alive. Yeah. They are.

And so it's, you know, in bow hunting, there's going to be a certain set of rules that we try to live by and rifle hunting the same way. and there's a lot of rifle hunters who I respect. I mean, there's one guy we talk about, or I talk to, you know, my boys all the time about he was,

he's been hardcore for his whole life. And he switched to bohunting a little bit, but mostly just rifles names Kurt Brace. I know, Kurt. Frickin. He's legit. He's killed so many big bucks. Big Bucketer on his day.

He is. He's such a stuff. I don't even have an Instagram, but I know. Kurt, that's an interesting stat. Kurt's a good dude. He's a killer. He's a black tail. When back in our home turf.

I know. Back in the day, we were so, you know, you talk, being secretive of where you hunt, I totally get it because we would bike in to Warehouser up there. We'd get there at like 3.30 in the morning, want to get as far back. And he was in awesome shape. He worked for the city of Eugene, just retired not too long ago. But always just shredded. And then we were so worried about people knowing that we parked at the main gate. So they, you know, if he, I think he killed like a 160 buck up, a Marcoa.

And I don't think I've seen that. At one time. And so he, you know, to, I don't know, kind of hide where we're hunting, he would park at the high school, which is back down and down. That's a poor way's back. Yeah. Just so his truck wasn't at the main gate. And so I totally get trying to protect, if you've worked your ass off to find a good area, hey, we don't want to be announcing it on a podcast. Which, you know what?

I was listening to you on Joe last, I don't know, last week I think it came out. And Joe's like, and all you dummies that are worried about a bunch of crowded trailheads, it's like, I want everybody to hunt, yes. But there is some truth to the crowded trail. I think because at some point, you know, your experience can be tainted or even eliminated if too many people. So there is a little validity in being suited. And it's not always to protect it just for yourself, but there's others you respect. and, you know, they all work hard.

Yeah. To find their spot so you don't want to blow anything up for anybody, including yourself especially. No, I mean, I hated seeing a boot track. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I saw a boot track, I'd be like, oh, my God, just drive me crazy. Yeah, yeah. Because you always want to have in your head that you're the, you know, you're in new country.

You're like, who knows what you're going to find? It's untainted, you know, it's untouched. Very good. And so I get the, yeah, people really got upset. Some groups of people that really got upset with Joe's comment on the, I don't find another trailhead dummy or whatever, which I... There's only so many of them. I get it. I get it.

But there are lots, but there's only so many that are worth anything. Right. But if, you know, I was in that same position and that's what I did. If I showed up to a trailhead that was packed, I'd be like, I'm either going to have to go further or find another one. So what he said wasn't wrong. No. That's what you do. but yeah I mean

they you know whatever people are going to have something to say but I understand we have I mean Western hunting is amazing I can understand that there's a big allure to it it's a big draw

it's a big test it's a big it's an incredible experience so maybe there are more people wanting to like hey do I have what it takes and so yeah pulling up to a jam pack trailhead would suck. Definitely would and does suck because I've been there. And you get to where you have to be creative.

Either you come in off a different way, you go further than everybody, you find places. What I did is, you know, if there's a horse trail to it, I'm like, I'm not hunting there.

Because if you can just get on a horse and get there, there's going to be people there. It's just like, you know, around here, if you can drive to it, there's going to be people there. So the wilderness is a different set of

rules, but if there's a horse trail there, you better find. So I would find places off horse trails where you just had to cross country. Never anybody there. No. So it's been hard to hide my vehicle. So I've been parking in places that don't really, not really close and then biking back. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, a few miles away. And then it's nothing on a bike to crank out a few miles because I have people come up and say, I saw your truck. And I'm like, play it off because I don't know where I was that day. Yeah. I know. You got to get a decoy rig. I borrow. I borrowed a rig to go deer hunting this year. Yeah, I mean, I used to take my wife's, you know.

So it's like, you know, and I used to back in the day, people would say I was so secretive about where I'd, like Tim, my buddy from Marcoa, he'd say, oh yeah, we'll just call Cam Mack his name backwards because he's, because he's so secretive. But I wouldn't tell anybody anything. And I wasn't even killing. I was just finding animals and it's so freaking hard. you're like, I don't want one person can screw it up. Sure can. I found that out the hard way this year. Yeah.

Yeah, anyway, so real quick to jump onto that, there's a buck I've been following for three years. Yeah. And I have his sheds for three years. And I was really excited to know he was still alive because I got him on camera. And I couldn't wait for a season to open. And it was delayed a week. Yeah.

And sure enough, a muzzle letter guy sends me the photo the day before. And this is a guy that we've overlapped. one time I packed a buck up through his campsite in Eagle Caps. I literally shot a buck 300 yards below his tent. And so we've overlapped a lot. And then so he sends me a photo of that buck. I'm like, oh, turnabout's fair play. Congrats.

Yeah. I'm like, I recognize it. And so I brought those sheds. I'll show you. Those, that guy, he's just a, he's a, he's not just a hundred. He's not just a giant, but like it was a meaningful deer. So like this is one side. Yeah.

That was this last year. And then this is his 20-21 set. Yeah. So he's like that right there's like a 125. That one right there is like a 134. And so just a clean four-by-four pretty buck. No, he's a nice. He's long on everything.

Yeah, long. And he just like, it's super impressive deer to see on hoof. And really pretty, just classic. That was the deer I was hoping for. You got a better deer. So all in all it worked out You got a better do But you can

That's the way it goes That's public land hunting And and nobody has to play by your own rules And if anything they're learning from you When you think you're doing something Somebody's gonna be doing it better So I didn't get that buck But yeah

I'm really happy about the one I got So And so Wyatt talked about how long he's been bohunting Tell me about your bow hunting journey As Started was Well

I mean, from the time I could walk, I was probably following my dad. You know, my dad's Wayne Indycott, right, owner of the bow rack. So for people that didn't know that, that is the link. And my dad has always included me on hunting. There was one time where he shot a buck. I was in the car and he had to drive us home because I was maybe seven. I was wearing like this Snoopy sweatshirt. He comes home with a buck, comes up with a buck and gets a photo with me that night.

So, I mean, early, early on. since I could kill something for myself, it was 12, and I bow hunted ever since, really. There was a couple years, I've done rifle a couple times for opportunity, but I'm not really like a rifle guy, but I'll do it for opportunity. Washington had an attack for example. You did it this year, didn't you? Or was that last year? I did pack a rifle for a second opportunity in California on Blacktail. Okay. I almost killed a world record non-typical velvet buck with my bow. Really? Like almost is in like the arrow was in the air. And the air. until it hit a tree really yeah like how big you think it was he was uh like in the

170s yeah he i have film of him and i'll eventually make a film i documented my story pretty good it's it's really a bummer that i didn't get him there's a long shot right it was a longer shot and um it's a big buck yeah basically he's a four by four that would have been like a one thirty five frame but every single time had an extra oh man yeah if you could just imagine that so yeah G2 through four just everything had an extra time matching length. Whoa. And symmetrical. Oh, man.

And just like, what is that? And it was an area I scouted. In the wilderness down there? It was in a, it was in a robust area. Yeah. I can't give too many clues. Yeah, Trinity Alps is a huge. It's like double the ego cap.

Yeah. Something like that. Marbles is, you know, I've killed, I went one time and killed a buck in the marbles. But yeah, it's big country for sure. Big country. Yeah. Hard work. Nobody else.

Yeah. No one else around. Just me. It's hot usually. Hot as hell. Not a lot of water. Yeah. Super hot.

Did not get that buck. So that was, so I did go back with a rifle. So long story short, is I've done rifle a couple times, but mostly an archery guy. Yeah. And then I'm 35. So I've been bo hunting a while. 20-some years. That always packed me around.

And I've been more unsuccessful than successful because of all the young years with, you know, older equipment and just trying. But I didn't start with rifle. That's for sure. Yeah. No, I know you guys. the get-go been bow hunters, which is hard. I mean, I started, I was a rifle hunter to start and then didn't switch to bow until I was later in my teens, basically. But bow hunting is hard

when you're young and your arrows are going slow and you're not a lot of poundage and the equipment, you know, was not what it is today. It's challenging. I think I did rifle hunt my first year. I was pretty small, so I think that had a lot to do with it. But killed a nice buck that year. But the delayed gratification and success that comes with bow hunting from a young age, I think played a lot into the desire that I have now. You know, you want for it for so long and things finally start to fall into place and you start to figure some things out and be able to make shots on animals. I think all those years of not having immediate success, you know, it seems to be important for later on in life. I think so. I'm happy that I came up not having a ton of success.

We always killed stuff, I guess. People say that after they've, like, quote, made it and had success. They're happy for those hard years. But when you're in their hard years, it really sucks. Yeah, yeah. But they're important. They are important. If you're in those hard years, you've gotten it out.

Yeah, yeah, don't give up. Yeah, it looks like you got something to say. Oh, no. It just flashbacks of memories of all the things I've screwed up, bow hunting. You know what I mean? I know. And it ties into my story this year. I used to say that, well, you know, now I have some animals, but I used to say, me and Roy used to say,

if we had all the animals we screwed up on, we'd have like the best trophy room ever. My room would look like yours. Because it's just giant bulls, right? Or box is like we screwed up so many. You know, I can think of, you know, Roy had target panic for a few years and just could not get that pin up. Oh my God. It's just or was in the. Target panic survivor.

Yeah. Or was in the shoulder. So he had to switch to recurve and that kind of cured it. Then he came back. Yeah. It's, yeah, so we definitely, when you talk about screwing up on big animals, man, we had our share. Hey, guys, you want to be as smart as famed neuroscientist, Andrew Huberman, PhD at Stanford? Well, sadly, that's probably not going to happen.

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slash cam. Yeah, so your buck this year. Tell me that story. All right. It's a giant four by or no, five by four. Typical. He's a five by five. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, five by five. Generally, I mean, kind of like a big four by four and then the G2 on the one side and the left side splits and then a drop time on the right side just an epic or I mean just an incredible black tail yeah he's pretty buck yeah and he's like over 140 right yeah why he scored him he's so he's got a I think a 141 inch typical four point frame and he's got a six inch drop time here and you know an inch and yeah and a quarter time back there so he's 148 48 48 and 3 8 yeah pretty amazing that's a big black tail so so that's pretty pretty crazy story yeah so

I've kind of touched on a few different things. If you talk about if you're the unedited version, you can make it like the most, you can make it an outdoor channel story if you want, perfect shot dead. That's what happened. That's bo-hunting. But I just, you know, had some other details and then that made it very interesting. Yeah, tell me what happened. It technically was a perfect shot at the end.

No, I think that's ruining it. So I'm going to start from fresh year is that season was moved back a week. It was coming off a hard year. It seemed like everything was not going my way. I was putting in the effort. With California, Oregon, Idaho, Spring Bear, there was a lot of archery opportunities that had usually gone my way that didn't. And so it was one of those things where I'm just wondering what's going on.

Like, why is everything so hard? Why is it all against me? And I'm working harder than ever before. I'd just come off a year, too, where I'd had a knee surgery and health complications with an autoimmune. And I still got it done. I killed more animals than I'd kill. like in some prior years.

And I was overcoming a lot of health things. And this year I was more able than I've been in a long time. And yet nothing was going my way. Do you guys think that we'll get back to that. But it used to be so frustrating because I would like work my ass off and could not kill. And I was just like, I would tell myself, nobody's working as hard as me. How is everybody else killing? Because it seemed like everybody was.

And I'm like, I'm working harder than them. So is it frustrating when you feel like you're just given all you got and it's not happening? Yeah. Because most things in life, they say, well, if you work hard enough, you're going to get what you want. With bow hunting, that doesn't guarantee anything. You might work your ass off and you just work your ass off. Yeah. There's no guarantees on the desired outcome.

You can try and try, try, and sometimes it doesn't go your way. So our season dates were moved back a week. I get the text the day I'm leaving of this buck that I was going to go after. And I just, I mean, I was like packing my bags. Yeah. And I was talking to my wife about like, do I still do my game plan, what I was going to do? And she's like, yeah. And I mean, you need to get out there.

And I was feeling pretty bummed. I was not great, right? Pretty upset. So I get in there and it just feels so refreshing to just, you know, clear your mind. Like I'm just hiking, just breathing hard. And that's all that matters. It's just you really feel your effort. Get in there.

I camp out. And so that night I had put in a camera and of course I screwed up on that. So I have no photos to look at on a camera that had been in since spring. And that was pretty awesome. So things are just stacking up. Yeah. And so I fall asleep that night. No one. It's going to be, you know, new slate. Like let's just get this done. And next morning I'm doing, I still hunt, which means, I mean, I could talk forever on this topic, but I cover a lot of ground until I find sign or any reason to slow up and then I hunt pretty slow until you get senses or whatever that says no I need to cover I need to go somewhere else so I was covering ground had a couple little I had a little buck run by me that morning and a couple more miles goes by take lunch break a couple more miles go by and then I'm sneaking

through some timber it's really dense timber so you can only see maybe 70 yards look up and the sun is gleaming on a buck like just beautiful tall framed four by four kind of like more of a pink light antler looking at me i get my binoes up see he's a good buck range him 70 yards a little too far to shoot he's staring at me and we just have a stare down i don't move buck eventually walks off so i'm like hey maybe i'll get another opportunity i close the distance on him i'm going through the timber i look up and a forked horn's running right at me and so i freeze, get my camera out, I'm trying to get video of this forget horn, and I'm realizing that it's running from something. And that's when I see this buck. This buck's chasing him. Okay. So he's

chasing him around, and they're just having this little chaotic battle of get away from my dough. Next thing I know, after about 10 minutes, this buck is pushing the dough towards me. So here they come through the timber. And I like to film, and I got one little clip of this buck moving through the timber, but the most important thing is coming home successful. When I'm away from my wife, my kids, like, as much as I want to film and document the whole thing, it's way more important. I'm successful. And when you see a buck with that frame, I had not actually seen the drop time. But when you see a buck with that frame, like, I could care less what the camera's doing. And I'm by myself, right? So buck goes, but dough goes through some trees. I'd already arranged it,

40 yards waiting for the buck. Buck's going to step through. drawback, I'm pinned in, ready to go, and then I try to stop him, and he's just kind of doing his thing walking, and I swing over, pin in, touch off, whap, I hit my jacket. The buck whirls right when I touched off. And so I see him take a couple bounds and right back in line with the dough.

And I pulled my binoes, look at his side, he needs clean. And so I was like, okay, if anything, I would have hit him back, and that would have been a bad hit back, but I don't see that. So I'm watching him. He's right in line with the dough and they disappear into the trees again. But he's not really spooked or alarmed. So I'm like, I probably missed. Yeah.

So I give him a few minutes, kind of plucked myself. It happened quick, thinking through the details, what I remembered. And that's very important, by the way, because we could tell ourselves so many different stories of what happened. But you really got to collect yourself after moments like that. So I go up and looking at the ground. I don't see the arrow. And then what if I hit him? So I take a few more steps looking at the the ground, sure enough, there's a little bit of blood. So I know I hit this buck. And now it's like, now it's go time. Like I have to recover this deer.

It's just different mindset. Yeah. Go through the timber. Sneaking very slow. I see the dough. I see, I see a forked horn. Same one. I've been run off.

I don't see him. I'm like, did I get lucky? Yeah. And then, no. Speak one in there? No, I didn't. No, his head's up. Oh.

And I don't see the dropper. All I see is this five point side. Yeah. on this side. Yeah, still good enough. Still didn't know. Still didn't know he's a dropper. Yeah, he looks great. That's right.

Yeah, it looks like an elk on that side. I know. So I knew I'd hit him and I took a quick shot opportunity when I had it. And so I took a longer shot like a 75-yard shot because at that point, if you injure an animal, you want to get another arrow on as soon as possible. Yeah. And I missed. Okay.

It was a quick shot and also I wasn't bubbled in. And so for people that know when you're shooting on steep side slopes, if you didn't look at that. your arrow's going to go somewhere else. Yeah. And it did that. So he takes off. I go up there and there wasn't a ton of blood at all really to deal with.

And after he'd run, there was a little bit more and I'm dropping onyx pins to try to map where he's headed. And it's running out of blood. I'm getting later in the day. It was new. How much blood were you finding? Kind of looked like, kind of looked like maybe I hit an artery. And it looked like every time you went over a log, there was a smear.

And then it kind of quickly changed over to drop. So I knew it wasn't a fatal hit. It wasn't a body hit. It was something low and Usually you could tell a lot from a blood trail and I'm gonna talk a little bit about that maybe on this story Yeah, so hopefully you're still still following along here So the blood ran out and it was about 3 p.m. And I'm realizing that at this point in the dark timber I'm not gonna be able to really get a good shot opportunity if I if I bump them and so instead I kind of I dropped down into some bluffy steep stuff and was zigzagging sagging to try to cut like a blood spot to be able to track, you know, where I could go for the next day. And that was my game plan was like, I know he's not fatally hit. I know it was probably

not it. It was something enough to follow, but not a great hit. And he'd be alive the next day. Like I knew this for certain. So it's almost dark and I peel off. And I go back to my tent. I text my dad. I had one bar service. Text my dad. And I'm like, hey, this is what happened. I told him the full story. And he's like, hey, if you had something to go. off of I'd help you, but you don't. So, you know, I'll see you tomorrow maybe or whatever. But next day goes, I wake up, right at daylight. I'm hiking through the timber. Of all things, my dad and I meet up. And so I tell him the story again. And I explained him in great detail what I'm planning to do now. And I'm like, I just have to find this buck. And was he camped up there too

in a different place or did he walk in? Different place. Yeah. And it just so happened. We crossed paths. We didn't plan it. Yeah. And so I explained the story and he tells me kind of again, like, hey, if you had something to go off of, and then us together are going to make double the sound, double the noise. We'd never really work out. Right. And what stands up to me is that I described a process of looking for the buck that did not match what I ended up doing.

And I was telling him how I thought, you know, maybe if an injured animal wanted to go bed by itself, it would go out in a flat. And so I described I was going to go start gritting a flat and hopefully I jumped this deer and get another arrow on it. And I didn't do that. I went back to the last blood. and I get down on the ground and I'm just doing every

like forensic work to like where did this thing go and he took a slight turn from where I'd last had blood and so I followed another 30 yards and then sure enough it's like I'm on the tracks and was there snow or just in the no snow okay just dark timber

pine needles like nothing every once in a while there's a smear on a log so I'd already assumed I hit low leg for him to be for him to have rolled away I had to have cut something low Yeah. So that next, so after that, after I split up from dad, I got on that blood, followed it,

dropped another pin. Sure enough, I had a line now of where he probably went. And I dropped down into some more cliffs and I zigzagged again for another hour and a half, come back up to a spot where I left off to go into the cliffs, go over a ridge, and I'm looking down through some big old growth timber, and I see movement. Pull it my binoes. And I'm like, holy crap. I'm shaking.

I'm freaking out in my mind already. And it was him. And not only that, I had not seen the dropper until that point. And the sun's coming through the timber. And it's like glowing. It's like shining. And I'm like,

I never saw that. Like what the heck? This is got to be the same buck. It's like a chocolate antlered. We don't have a ton of bucks that would resemble this frame. This is an anomaly. Like I pick a lot of sheds. I brought some.

They don't look like that. The buck's 40 yards. And I'm thinking like that was a God thing. brought this buck right back to me like how is that possible like this is going to happen i'm super confident buck puts his head down and he puts his head behind a tree i draw back i pin in and then i have this habit when i'm shooting downhill to keep my finger behind the trigger on the release and then it's one of those things i don't think about i just do it because it feels more secure and then so i bring my finger around to touch it and i move off target like off the back why

Have you ever done it? It kind of goes back to like, you know, the target panic thing that we touched on. You're afraid of touching that trigger. So like with instructing archery, you talk to people about this. You come back to full draw. Put your finger. If you're aiming with your finger behind the trigger, you're just wasting time. Yeah.

Because time at full draw. You got to re-am then. Time that you're fatiguing. So, yeah, you bring your finger around. It's like when you do that, that just resets everything. Yeah. So, yeah. Like what he's saying, he's on the buck pinned in, and brings his finger around.

And now he's reset. Right. So you're off. So like normally when people aim, they, when they restart, they come back down from the top. I don't know if you come from the top or the bottom or side. Okay. So, yeah, once you aimed one time with your finger behind the trigger, then you come around. Then you got to come back up off the animal to come down again, right, essentially.

Kind of resets you're breeding. Yeah. I mean, I was behind. My finger was behind the trigger, but the pin was perfect. Like I was, my brain was saying this is when you touch off. Yeah. But it wasn't ready to. That would have been.

That would have been if the finger is on the other side. Yeah. And so in the process of coming in front, I move off target just enough, but I was already committed. My brain was already saying you're squeezing the trigger. Yep. Yeah. So that's when I touch off and I see my arrow going towards this giant limb on an old growth tree. Oh, no.

And ricochet. And then all I see is arrow flying over the top of the buck's back, like cartwheeling over its back. Oh, no. I just like fall in a heap. Yeah. And Buck, two hairs off. Yeah. Like nothing was wrong, right?

Do hairs off. You probably heard the arrow hit the limb. Yes. Did you hear two hits? I did not. Yeah. Yeah. I was convinced, absolutely convinced that I did not.

You missed. You're probably ready to crawl in a hole. I wanted to. I mean, I was flooded with like how many times have I screwed up on that same shot? Yeah. You know, shooting downhill on a big buck back when I didn't know how to cut yardage. Like there's an evolution of archery and learning that has taken place to get to a point where now I can do it. but I reverted to some old habit that was deep in my brain.

And I wish I did not have that old habit. And it happened. It's adrenaline. It's like you see the drop time. There's so much that you're so close to an animal like a once in a lifetime animal. Yeah. Your brain does. Yeah.

You've been dreaming of that moment. Your brain does crazy things. And I was also on that like that super intense mode that we get into where it's like I am, I'm tracking to kill something. Yeah. Like it's like this mindset. switch. So I was like hyper focused on just like, this is a dead buck. And so when I fall down, I was just completely like, that's over. Yeah. And I had the thought of like, quitting bow hunting. Every time. Just picking up the rifle. No. I just was like, wow, like that happened so fast. And I don't

get that back. Yeah. I screwed up. I screwed up a once in a lifetime opportunity. Yeah. This will never happen again. I've had that feeling myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so the thoughts, the two thoughts that came to mind is one, what if I can find him again? The other thought is, I probably screwed up. I'll never see him again. I could also just go look for another buck. But I was more on the camp of like, oh, this is a giant. I saw that dropper. He might, what if he's just down the hill 100 yards back to feeding? He didn't know what happened. He had no idea I was there. So I go with the option A. Yeah. Maybe he's right down. they're ready to be shot again. And so I, um, I sneak down the ridge about 20, 30 yards and I'm looking through the timber waiting. Nothing. So I sneak back real quietly, look for my arrow. I don't

find it. And I'm like, uh, I kind of saw it flip over his back and I'm looking down through the trees. Don't see it. So go back and I kind of sit down in the, in the timber again. And I'm looking down, just hoping I catch some movement. Maybe he's down there chasing a dough around something, nothing nothing i'm seeing a game trail that zigzags down through this old growth timber really really steep hillside nearly vertical and i'm almost making it up with my eyes but i'm like that looks like the buck ran on that trail like a scuff mark i'm like you know i have to go down there and look at that go down absolutely i'm like this is the buck's tracks i followed it maybe two steps and it goes off to the right off the trail now it's going straight down like tracks

bled out type of running and running buck. Yep. And it's going like straight absolutely down, like free fall down. That's not normal. Not normal. No, usually he would have kept going the direction he was headed. Yeah. Hit a trail stayed on it.

Yep. Yep. Yep. So maybe I take 20 more steps and I look from behind a tree. My buck was laying down, unable to move, basically dead. And it didn't add up. All I knew is like I could have gone the rest of my life. knowing that that buck was fine.

Yeah. That I had not hit him. Right. Turns out he's laying on the ground. I'm not going to ask him what's going on. So I load another arrow. I load another arrow and absolutely shoot him again. He's now he's like down down.

I run back up to the top of like a little mountain peak where I wanted to text my dad to tell him what happened because I'd just seen him that morning. Yeah. I get a text and it says, I just shot a monster. From Wyatt. From Wyatt. Yeah. And what did I do? I called you and made like no sense.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He calls me. So I'm like freaking out because I shot, you know, a big buck. And I had just sent that text and he calls me within like, you know, immediately. Like I can't believe my text even sent. And it's also surprising that we both had service at this time.

Yeah. Yeah. Some nasty stuff. But anyways, yeah, he calls me. He's like, dude, I just, I killed a huge buck too. He's got a drop time. He's like, I saw the drop time. Before I drew back, I saw the drop time.

And I'm just like, oh, dude. I was like, out of my mind. I'm like, okay, it's got a drop to. How big is it? He's like, I don't know. Like his frames like 130s and then he's got a drop time and other points. Had you even went up to him yet? Didn't you touch it?

No, he tells me that. He's like, he was just like dead. So I walked away. And then at the end of the closing shortly after our conversation. I'm like, well, make sure he's still there. Good luck. Yeah, rolled a little bit. Yeah, well, that's, that's, that's, I mean,

I mean, did you just want to share it with somebody? Because it's like so, your emotions were so up and down. Yeah. I know that I called Wyatt because like we keep up, but. It's usually at like the closing of a hunt, closing of a day. Yeah. At the end of it, heading home, checking in. Sure.

Yeah. But also I shot a monster didn't mean a monster was dead. Like I didn't know your story. I didn't know what was going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you just happened to have gotten that text from me. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess you just called. Pretty crazy. I don't know. You're excited to share it. So I guess the premise to all this is you made a film off this. This is what I love about this story is you can, people are going to be able to share in this experience. I mean, you can hear in your voice and in your storytelling. You're way more animated than why it is, which is awesome because it makes great stories.

But you make films also, the Indicot films you mentioned on YouTube. And, you know, you've been doing it now for a couple years. But when you sent me the link to this hunt, this film off you and Wyatt's success, you know, I was telling Wyatt earlier, but I've seen so many hunting movies. You know what I mean? Most of the time, even if they're amazing, I'm just like, okay, okay, okay, let's get you. Let's go, go, go. And then, but with this one. Sometimes you might have to artificially inflate drama.

Yes, sometimes. But with this one, for whatever reason, because it was a different, you know, maybe I'm biased because it's blacktail. I don't think so. These are giant bucks for almost any species. But just the storytelling and the emotion and the authenticity of what's going on, you calling why a white in his tree stand after he had killed or shot his buck and wanted to give it a little bit of time. And just how it was presented, how you put it together as a film. I mean, yeah, it's not the most incredible over the shoulder kill like we want,

but it's a story that you're engaged in. And I was like sitting on my phone watching the whole thing and caring about every second. There was no like, oh, you know, sometimes you can skip ahead 10 or 15 seconds. You're like, okay, I see where this is going. I wanted to watch and absorb every second of, I think it's about 10 minutes, right? And it's just you did such a great job on putting the story together. And these bucks are once in a lifetime bucks for any blacktail hunter. And you guys shot them at virtually the same time.

Basically same time. And share the experience. And we get to see it now. And so I'm like, I know you guys wanted to wait for the full draw film tour. And I'm like, I'm lobbying. No. How can we say no? Let's get this out right now because I just love it.

And it's just bow hunting at its realist and most passionate. And that's why we do it. That is the insane buck. Yeah. So Wyatt's buck. Your buck is 148. Wyatt's buck is just this giant, you know, people will watch this. But if they're just listening, it's just a giant heavy.

The mass goes out. It's just crazy. It's a four by four with kind of a split eye guard on the one side. You know, out west here, we don't count the eye guards. And we say what the buck is. So he's a four by four with eye guards, a split brow on the left side. But just the mass is insane. And he's got, you know, he's been rubbing on trees.

He's got pieces of trees stuffed in his burrs down there at the bottom of his base. But the mass that carries out is incredible. Loopold optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glasses. All I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part. and my success these last few years.

Thank you, Lou Pold, for supporting the podcast. We tape this one at 154 and 7.8s, you know. Of course, it's highly unofficial. I mean, I feel like we run a decent tape, but just for a frame of reference. We don't, I mean, I... He's 20 and quarter inside, 22-inch main beams. He's got just, I guess, proportions

on a black tail that you don't usually think about, you know? We don't live and die by scores. We do it. Yeah. Everybody wants to know about what the buck is, a reference type thing. And it's like, so that's 152-4? 154. 154.

Yeah, that's what we came up with. Yeah, just a giant black tail. Both giant black tails. Yeah. Yeah, phones can do a good job of distorting. So I think anymore, the only reason I care about scores is, because I just want to know how big it is. Yeah. Because I can't trust a photo.

It's a good frame. It's a baseline frame of reference. But one thing with Blacktail we've talked about quite a bit is it's like you'll, you'll, agree with this. I mean with the buck you killed this year it's a three by four but it's like there's so much about blacktail that isn't score. Score doesn't make up a buck it's just like some of them you might kill a three by two that has the same frame as this and mass. It's just it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. There's just special bucks. I don't know. Maybe it's because we grew up with them but just how sneaky they are, how rare it is to see them. I don't know man. There's just something about the

character that each one of them has that score is kind of thrown out the window sometimes. It is. It's, you know, and where you guys are hunting up there, it's like wilderness bucks, we never know what's going to show up. You know, what's going to be pushed out of the wilderness because of the snow. So just in general, like to hunt the snow lying up there because how many miles is it from the highway to like the base of the South Sister? Is it 30, how far, 20 to 30 miles?

Yeah. Or not the South Sister, but all the sisters. So it's like there's say 20 or 30 miles, but when that snow comes in, they get pushed down to whatever the snow line is. So if the snow line is, you know, maybe a mile up from the highway, and all those bucks from 20 or 30 miles is pushed down in that strip along the snow line, man, you don't know what's going to show up. Yeah.

That's the exciting part. Yeah. And we killed both of these bucks with, I don't think you could climb high enough to find snow. It was tough conditions. Tough conditions. Pretty dry. Yeah. So the snow hadn't come yet.

No. Okay. Normally, I mean, when I've been up there, it's always like we always want to hit that snowline. Correct. You know, killed bucks there doing that. But yeah, it's still the wilderness. And sometimes it's, you know, it's big country. So those deer could be, but when you find pockets of them, man, it seems like it's good hunting. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's where your tactics, you know, you said you didn't really have a tactic, but you were not necessarily still hunting. Because still hunting, like most people who talk about old school still hunting is you're out there, you know, it's a step.

And then you're looking, looking, looking, looking, it might be a minute, then another step. Looking, looking, looking, that's like. That's pretty boring. That's the definition. That's very. But when, like, when Boyd Iverson, do you remember Boyd Iverson? So he had, you know, Blacktail Trophy Tactics was his book back in the day. He was like the blacktail legend when I was growing up.

That's what they talk about. That's how you still hunted blacktail because the cover is so thick. But you put another twist on it. you're hunting bigger timber country. Huge area. So you can see and you're hunting for miles. So yeah, you can't take a step every minute when you need to cover 10 miles that day. Correct.

Because there's not going to work. There's not very many deer. No. But once you get to them, like you said when you'd get to a spot that had sign and you can see it, then you dial a back, slow down and now you're hunting. Yeah. But it's that I think that's a great tactic you have. And being in good physical condition helps that.

pay off to where you can be in the most rugged mountains, you know, for for blacktail really there are and be fine. Get up there, be in the game, hunting, you know, still have all the emotions every normal hunter has, but because you've just, you know, kind of honed your body to do that type of hunting, you're going to make it happen. And then on Wyatt's story, you had, I'd like, another thing you said Nathan is you didn't have really a plan you just you know because didn't have your trail cam pictures of buck you were going after. Roy used to say sometimes he goes when I don't know what to do I just get out there. That's what I was doing. I just get you know you can overthink all sorts of shit just get out there and when you're out there

anything can happen yeah you got to put yourself out there in the game and that's what you're saying that reminded me of but so why your story is a little different because you scouted this out You were in a tree stand. Yeah. And to touch on, you know, what you just said is like, you have to be out there. It takes me back. There's specific footage of years that I watch, like, every year when it's, when November's rolling around.

And it's that, I think it's, I don't know if it still is. At the time, I think it was your best buck, that big four by five you killed in 2013. Yeah, 54. Yeah, 54. It's like, you're, the free, you know, the pre-roll interview leading up to that morning, you're like, we sat here yesterday. We didn't even see one deer. Yeah.

He's like, so, how are you pumped? Or maybe I think it's after you killed the buck You're like, we didn't see a deer Yeah He's like we're just kind of after this one buck Well, that buck ends up coming by And you just pound him at 15 yards or whatever That was real similar to this kind of how I was looking

Looking at this For, you know, leading into this season Always scout as much as I can But I mean the last four years of my life I have like you know lived on the road Working construction Out of town all the time So it's like my time to scout

out's been limited and you're trying to balance the family thing but yeah one day to summer i'm like just freaking out because you know the the feeling you get when it's you feel like you're not putting in enough work i'm just like i have got to get until my wife chelvin like i have got to get in the mountain somewhere i've got to check something out hanging a camera i got to do something so i just go up and i ran up to an area i hadn't been to in a long time and it'd probably been almost almost 10 years and i'm like i'm i don't i'm gonna go see what's up there so So I went up and I hiked up in there. I'm like, man, there's, you know, there's a fair amount of deer sign in here.

So I had a camera in my pack, and I threw it out on this bluff. And months went by, and I come back one day. I was on my way home from work. I took an alternate route, came up, and I stopped in there and checked that thing. Hiked in after dark, it was Halloween. It was coming home for Halloween for kids. And I come in there and I check it. Well, I had screwed up the settings or something, you know, like he talked about,

it always seems to happen with trail cams. So I had put it on video mode, but my delay was way short. And then there ended up being way more deer in there than what I would have figured. So I had like two weeks worth of videos. And that was in July. And then it filled up. So that's all I had to go off of. I'm like, man, there was some deer in here.

Yeah. There's a few good bucks. And it's Halloween now. So there's a big gap between July and Halloween, but I'm like, well, if they were here in the summer, I bet you there's a couple bucks in here that probably hang around. Maybe one else will come through. So reset the camera and then fast forward a couple weeks. I ran back up there.

I checked the camera. I didn't hardly have, you know, hardly anything. A few doze, a couple bucks, not that buck. So then we got like one more week until season starts. So that weekend, you know, a week before season started, me and my buddy Ryan were up and we kind of partner up and run cameras together. He's kind of my apprentice. I guess you could call it.

But he helps me run trail cameras in some areas and stuff and hang stands. We made our rounds that weekend, checked a bunch of cameras, hung some stands, putting in the work, still didn't have a game plan. It's looking pretty slow, man, we're griping about, man, normally we'd be hunting this weekend. You know, this sucks. Yeah. Then it goes all the way around and I have the Friday off before season starts because we're off for Thanksgiving. And it feels like a travesty to not be able to be.

bow hunting on Thanksgiving. I know, it's weird. Whatever, we're out scouting. So we go up there and we check all of our cameras again. We hung one more stand. We have a game plan. There's one spot that's got a big buck in it. And I'm thinking that's where I'm going to sit.

So we run over. I got one more left to check. And I got to drive to a different area. We get over there. We hike up in and I get to the camera and packing a tree stand with this just in case. And I'm flipping through kind of the same except Thanksgiving morning. there's one picture of a buck and he's going like straight away from the camera

out into this bluff and he's a ways away from the camera but I'm like showing him like dude what do you think I'm like that looks like a big buck you know he's like yeah it looks it looks like a giant so then now I got one I hung a stand and now I got one night to decide where am I going to be in the morning

so I'm like you know what dude you go hunt where that other big bucks at that looks like a slam dunk but I'm like I just have to you know I have to hunt the mystery I have to chase. It looks like there's a giant area. I got to try it.

Got one photo of them to go off of. So opening morning, get there. I got to leave my house at like three in the morning. I get up there, hike in. I sat daylight to dark. I did have a buck come through, which gave me a little bit of hope. He headed back down the mountain that night. And it takes forever for him to get back to me.

And he called me. He's like, dude, that big buck came through. And he said, I mean, he's a newer bow hunter. He's killed some bucks. But he's like, that thing, that buck came through. and I missed him. And, you know, then I'm just like, gosh, you know, part of me sour because I'm like, man, I should have picked that spot, you know, because he's a hundred 30 inch four points.

How far a shot? 40. It was just a poke out of a stand. Yeah, out of a stand. And he's got to sit there a hundred yards five minutes chasing a dough around before he gets a shot right at dark. Anyways, he missed it. So then I'm like, man, am I, did I make a mistake, you know, just trying to hunt this mystery buck, whatever.

But then I'm like, no, he needs to kill a good buck. Good for him. I'm glad. I'm just going to keep fatten it out. Then we're headed back up the next morning, and we're chit-chatting on the phone. It's three in the morning headed up the mountain. He's like, bud, if you ever talk to him,

that's his signature thing, but I just got a feeling. I think that buck's going to come through for you today. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I'll see. We'll see what happens. So I get up there, settle in, and I'm sitting there,

and it's I real paranoid about getting settled in like way before daylight so I'm in there probably an hour before it's even you're paranoid about being too late so you'd rather be too early I want to be early because I want to no matter how sneaky you are it just feels like getting into a stand you just you're pushing stuff you're just disturbed in the woods so I like to like get in their way early give time for the for everything to be normal in the earth to settle back in so I get in there and I'm sitting in my climate stand and I kind of just you know I fall asleep I sleep for a little bit and I wake

up and it's just barely cracking light and I'm looking around so as it's cracking light I decide I'm like I'm gonna call a little bit so I have this this dopely can call and I tipped that over a couple times and I grunt a couple times and I'm sitting there just motionless

aside from making the calls and I thought I heard something and it's so quiet the conditions are tough it's like I should be able to hear these deer coming. And I hear something. I'm like, hmm. So I turn and there's a buck.

I couldn't see what he was. I could just see his back in. And he's just slipping away from me. And he goes off into the mighty maples under the north slope. So I'm frustrated because I'm like, if I wouldn't have been screwing around, you know, trying to call,

he probably saw me because it's real steep he comes from above me. I'm like, he must have seen me moving around. He's just slipped off. And that's right at daylight. So I'm frustrated about that. but settle back in at 10 more hours of this. So I'd rattled a little bit.

And then about 8.30, I picked up the horns. The sun came around. It's just starting to light the hillside up there. Knocked the horns together a little bit. I turned around and hang them back up. And I sat back down. You know, after you're out, real attentive. And I bet 25 minutes goes by.

Nothing, nothing's coming in. So it's like I'm kind of reset back to where I'm thinking nothing's, nothing's coming into the rattling session. And then I hear, I hear some crunching up above me. And I'm like, I look up there. And there's a big kind of wall of, it's all old growth timber, but the trees are stacked fairly tight right there. And even though I'm 30 feet up, it's so steep.

I'm looking to my left and uphill. So I'm looking up there. And I'm like, that's got to be a deer. So I stand up and I turn my GoPro on. And I'm looking. And it's like, you catch that movement. I catch a flash of brown going through the trees. I'm like, okay, yeah, it's a deer.

And I see an antler flash. I'm like, okay, it's a buck. So then I'm grabbing my bow and I get my release. And he comes around this big old growth tree. He's 30 yards at this point, maybe less. And then, you know, I see him. I see him. You know, he comes around the tree like that right there.

And I'm just like, oh. I know. I know which one that is. And now he walks up and he stops behind this old growth. and I'm just tense. I got my releases on the string and I'm just ready and I can peek out

and I can see his back end behind the tree. There's his head's blocked so I'm just watching him and then as soon as he starts to move I'm trying to time my draw right as soon as he starts to move bam I come back to full draw

and he's coming down the ridge not really on a trail well he hits this crossing trail takes a hard left and now he's going to come he's going to come right by me and this trail's like 10 yards He comes walking across that trail.

And I've got to make 100 decisions that fast, but you're trying to anticipate, okay, where's my shooting lanes? There's a shooting lane of the next one. If you walks through that one, he's got to walk 10 more yards before he's in another one. So he's walking, but man, he's quartering to me. Do I shoot him quartering to? God, he's so close if I try to do anything, you know, or anything could happen. Was the wind coming down? The wind wasn't doing much.

It was really unpredictable, just still. Yeah, because when they're that close, I'm always worried about. Being busted by the wind. You're swinging, you brush against something. Doesn't take much. They freeze. Now you're stuck at full draw or the wind. They blow out.

So it's like, it's that close. I'm going to pound him quartering two. You know, I'm shooting a big Grim Reaper four blade mechanical. It's going to tear him up. So anyways, all that goes through my head that fast. I give him a burr. And he stops. And everything's so quiet.

He hears that. He just locks him up. And man, I just pulled the click in my release. And my pins just buried on him. And, you know, I felt so confident. it broke and smacked him. I heard that click on the video. Yeah.

Do you guys ever worry about the buck here and that? Well, he doesn't mess with that. You got a trigger release, right? Yeah. Yeah. I remember on that, I heard that. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's more audible probably right up next to the microphone. Probably, yeah. But I was in the tree stand this year, and if I would have my hands in my pockets, if I just put my hands deeper in my pockets, the deer would be like, Yeah. They would hear my hands in my pockets. Yeah. Just sliding. Oh, yeah.

So that's crazy how good they can hear. They're hearing what's insane. But with that click, it's like if they're hearing that, it's probably too late for him at that point. Yeah. And it's who knows, they probably was like, it would take him a minute to register. They would have to look up and see you and then be like,

yeah, that's probably danger. And in that amount of time, he's got an arrow through his lung. So, yeah, anyways, you know, nine yards. Yeah. It's tough to screw it up. I have done it before but anyways yeah I hit him right there tight to the shoulder but quartering to knowing that and he you know in the video you can see he runs into the frame of the camera and you just see this great big white buck run out and

yeah I'm watching him run away just like and I can remember seeing about you know seven eights of my aerial hanging out the offside of him as he's running away I think you can see it if you have high enough resolution and big enough screen but yeah he goes running out through that bluff but he made it through the bluff and at that point he's gone a hundred yards that's what i saw yeah so i'm like then there's almost the regret the second guessing of like man i should have let him yeah what i forced gap and then shoot him at 15 or 20 yards quartering away but i'm like no you made that decision he's gonna be dead just sit here take it in so i sat there and i gave it um you know with that shot it's it's fatal like they're dying i mean

I took out at minimum. Did you get your, I can't remember, did you get your binoes up when he was running? No, I just sat there. Just watched it. So could you see the arrow hanging out though? I could see it. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. That makes you feel better. Oh, sure. Yeah. And I could see, you know, when that shot broke, it felt perfect. Hit right where you wanted. Hit right behind the pin.

Okay. It's just, it, I knew he was dead. Yeah. It's just like, well, with the nature of that shot, it can take him a little bit longer to die. Long live. Because sometimes you only get one lung. You're counting on the liver and then you're crisscrossing the diaphragm and going out through the guts.

It's pretty deadly. It's devastating, but they can live a little bit longer because it's not the instantaneous double lung. So I'm just like, I'm in this tree, so I'm just going to sit here. I pulled up my phone. I got a bar service, so I sent him that text. Yeah, he ended up calling me. But yeah, I think I gave it one hour before I actually climbed down. And I just, you know, like you got the shake so bad.

And the sun's finally coming around the hill. adrenaline. I'm just, like, I'm just basking in the glory and just praying and just, you know, I'm just going to take this in. And, yeah, I climbed down out of there and followed him out. And with that high entry and the gut exit, it wasn't, you know, even with a big, big massive cut and broadhead. Not a ton of blood, but I just, you know, followed him out to where I saw him last and kind of made it around the bend of the ridge. And I looked down there, and there was a big bench down there. And he was laying there, piled up.

And I knew he was a pretty good buck. I mean, I knew he was real good. even when I saw him down there, I could see that, you know, the bigger four point, well, they're both four points, but that bigger side was up. And I looked down there at my bino's, I'm like, yeah, he's a good buck. And I go walking down there and I walk up to him just like, my goodness, like the proportions on this thing are just in this world. And yeah, it was, it was pretty special. I just, you know, normally it's not a, you don't think of a beautiful day when you're blacktail hunting, but it was gorgeous weather. And I took a bunch of photos and just.

You know, soaked it, soaked it in, took it in, and then packed him out. And, man, there's, you know, you talked about the ruggedness up there. It's like, I load that whole deer into my pack. Well, you know, the whole quartered up buck, which can be pretty dang heavy, especially on a big mature buck like that. And I had to traverse down through some bluss. I had never been down through, which can be, you can pick wrong. Yeah.

You can get clipped out. It can be dangerous up there. Yeah, but thankfully I was able to, you know, I had to backtrack a couple times. but ended up hitting the crick and cutting down through there and packing him out. Yeah. Wyatt did a great job to describing your story, like, why it's a great hunter, but filming is hard. Yeah. And also, sometimes it doesn't feel like it can actually work out.

Yeah, and I don't know. There was something. Like, he just documented his stories so well. I just decided, I was going to, I kind of decided the day before season. I got footage of us outrun around scouting and just talking. And then I'm like, I don't know. I'm just going to film. this whole thing. I had no plans of making a film out of it.

You never, yeah, I mean, where the odds that's going to work out on the buck that? Yeah, not great. Yeah, I mean, I'm like 90% certain that this buck on trail camera is gone. I probably never see him again. The nature of that country, you know, they're not always, they're not always, they're not always, they're not always resident deer. Yeah. It can be a long ways away. And I just was fortunate enough to, that he came back through. But I guess part of it is, too, like you said, you don't never know, you don't ever know what's walking around up there. No. And so you never know what's going to come by. It was him. He came by. Yeah. You got to be in the tree. You don't have to be, but yeah, it helps. If you're not,

you got at least be in the woods. Yeah. No, it's a man, those bucks. What's the name of the film? Was there a name? Actually, yeah. Yeah, it's the, the pinnacle. The pinnacle. The pinnacle, which it has like, it ties back. There's some family ties for me. So, yeah, my uncle Scott Lawson, back in the 90s. It seems like before people killed big bucks. The 90s. I didn't even know. Were people bo-hunting back then? It was a primitive form.

But anyways, he killed this buck. I know Scott. Yeah, he killed this buck back then. And it was maybe you even remember. I remember the buck. Do you remember it? Okay. Was there snow in the picture?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Snow in the picture. It was in similar country to where I killed this one. Yeah, it's like 140 inch typical four point. But he killed that thing and that buck was mounted and we had a lot of, you know, family get-togethers and stuff at his house.

And anyways, that buck they called it, the pinnacle buck. And then any blacktail that anybody in the family ever saw or killed up into that point was always compared to this buck, the pinnacle buck. Yeah. So, you know, I killed that buck and I texted him. I was like, I killed my own pinnacle buck, you know. And then Nathan was talking. He had a name for the film.

And, I mean, it related to it was more or less generic, I guess. But I'm like, he's like, do you have any, you have any ideas on that? the name because I was just going to go with what he said but I'm like yeah he texted me that I'm like you know what dude the pinnacle like it's we both we both killed like these once in a lifetime bucks will probably you know we'll struggle to ever top I mean his buck even if you kill one that scored bigger when are you going to kill a perfect four point with a seven inch drop time on one side it's it's like that's the pinnacle that buck right there it's the pinnacle up in this steep country so yeah it's it's the pinnacle and I guess it's going to be live and I made that film for

Wyatt when this is live. My goal, I told Wyatt on a spring bear hunt, I'm like, dude, film, I'll make you a film. I'd love to do it. Yeah. And so that was like a cool opportunity to make Wyatt a film. I didn't plan to be in it. And then I'm watching his footage and I call it. The herd bull's in there too. He made it. He made the cameo. Yeah. It's not too late to make some of that. No, because he had to keep hammering. I got to talk about that too. But anyway, yeah, I was telling Wyatt, like I really want to make a film for you. And so after I watched your footage. It's like there's no way I can't be a part of this film. Like it's not just my story. Like I would I mean your story. It's also me in there a little

bit. Yeah. Well the fact that that that's the coolest part of it I think like like he when he called me and he's like I shot a giant buck like it was as fast as I could to get up and get my GoPro turned on because I ended up getting our live or live phone call I got it recorded. So it's not we didn't go back and re-recorded nothing like that's what makes it so good. So funny. I made like no sense but It almost works in the film. It almost works. That's great.

One other thing is Cameron Saxon wanted to be known that he came up with the name because he told you that on Evans Buck and he planned that seed. He just wanted me to tell you. He wants to take credit for it. Ryan Pollard wants to take credit for it because Ryan was like, Jackson. He's like, but that's the pinnacle. But Saxon and I, his.

And he did your buck. Huh? He did your buck. I know. Let's bring it up. Bring it up. Yeah. So he just dropped this off today so we'd have it.

So yeah, here's my buck. but Cameron Saxon, yeah, he's, we all know them, we all love him. He's, yeah, he's the funniest guy. I mean, he's hilarious. He should be a stand-up. He's so good. Just stuff he comes up with and you're like sitting there, like looking at him going, how do you come up with that?

He's good. Yeah, he's great. But yeah, he got my butt cleaned up quick. He just picked it up the other day and got that boiled out for me. But no, Cameron, we love you. Yeah, he had a name for his skull business. What the heck. was it. Bargain Boils.

He just told me that last night. Bargain Boils. Barg and Boil Scull creation. He doesn't want me to promote him, but we're going to promote him. Oh, hell yeah. No, he talked about, didn't he work for, who did he work for? Who did he work for? Taxidermy for a while. Oh, he's worked with Zane. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean. Zane kills it on Blackdale. Yeah. We got to promote Zane. He's, that's who amounts are bucks. Yeah, that's so good. He's, no, we're not promoting him because I called to see if he'd boil that out. He was too busy. Yeah. He's not going to mess with skulls anymore.

But if you got a shoulder around, no, I'm kidding. He's probably really polite about it. No, he's never done. He's never done anything for me, but I've heard great things about it. What's his business called? It's a back picture of creation's tax. Yeah.

But it seems to just be Zane Smith. Yeah. Yeah, he does. So we can say something. Herd bowl. Herd bowl, yeah. I guess I. Wayne and to Kyle.

I told my story, but the finisher on it is that after I talked to Wyatt, I went back, I texted my dad and I left him a voicemail. And I was just hoping that he would check it. Yeah. Well, he's got an in-reach and he texts me like, I just looked at it. It was like eight, like 18 times or something like, where you have? But all I had said for details is, uh, you found a five-by-five, you found a five-point shed right where I killed this buck. And then about 30 minutes later, dad shows up. You know, like, down for the timber. And I'm like, hey, I'm down here. And I like run up, greet him. And, um, we go down there and I've worked on a lot of bucks. I've, you know, like, you get good at it. On Kodiak, for example, you're doing three bucks potentially. And, like,

you get good. And while I can work fast with a knife, I didn't. I was real slow and it was beautiful weather like he described, which is so rare. And I have stories just going with dad. And he's talking the whole time about what it reminded him of and other genetics. But this is a freak deer and just how blessed we are to be here together on this moment. And asking him to show me like, how would you take off the hind quarter? I know how to take off hind quarter.

But like watching dad. And that was really neat. And I didn't want that to end. Right. And that was something that I'll always remember. And I have a few hunts with dad that are awesome, spectacular, but nothing like that. You know, a deer like that. And then with him where he taught me, you know, he took me the first time.

So it's rare. There hasn't been a hunt really where we've shared the recovery up there since I was a kid. Okay. Like 14 years old when I sent you the picture of that buck where I'm hiding the tag on the antler. You're like, what's underneath your hand. Is that the tag? I'm like, yeah, it is. But that, like, that was one of the last times.

Really? There's a couple times where we shared recoveries and packouts. Well, even that part of the film where you guys hugged on there and like one of your hats got knocked around a little bit. But it was just so genuine. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's no bigger fan of bow hunting than your dad. Yeah. Wayne, he, you know, that moment I guarantee is one of his highlights as well.

Yeah. Even though he tried to screw up our podcast today. He killed a buck today. By killing a buck and a bear. And he's waiting for packout help. I'm going to help him. But, uh, hang it in the tree.

See, he had to figure out a way for us to talk about him on the podcast. But I mean, man, he's good though. He's good at it. Where would we be without weighing in a car? Oh.

Yeah. It's like, yeah. We're so, I mean, I'm so lucky to live so close. Does he? Yeah.

To the bow rack. And because it's such a great, you know, what I always say is like you can have the best equipment. If it's not set up right, you got to overcome that. before he can even kill something. Yeah.

So we, all three of us, you know, being around the bow rack so much, our bows are set up perfect. Yep. Right. So that's not, that's not going to be an issue. But yeah, your dad has built a great business. I was curious, how has it been, you know, Truit mentioned this the other day that I can be, or on his podcast, that I could be too intense and he didn't like hunting with me for about eight

years. Like, I don't know if you know this about yourself, but you could be a little intense. So how, how is your dad to hunt with? No, not intense at all. Like, they get along great. They agree on everything. My dad's not been intense one day of his life. Yeah, he's, yeah.

No, I love my dad so much. And again, it's like, you know, I listen that podcast or that podcast with you and Trueit. And there's a lot of things that I felt similar and I could identify with. But also, I mean, he said thank you. Like, he's like, you'll look back and thank me later. And it's like, yeah, I mean, there's not a day that goes by that I don't also think like, wow, my dad has been hard on me at times.

I also am very grateful because I wouldn't have the life. I wouldn't have the work ethic. And I wouldn't have the drive, the mental determination. And that goes in everything. And also, I forget so much of the time that when I'm talking about black tail hunting and everything, it's like, it's pretty hard. It's probably one of the harder things a person could do in their life is what I do in one day in the blacktail woods. But it's like, I live for it.

Yeah. There's nothing hard in my mind because if I didn't feel the pain of that day, Like it wasn't worth it. Right. Like I want to absolutely grind until, and I leave that detail out because it's so normal. Because dad ingrained that in me. There was no, from the time I could, you know, it's like learning to read. Yeah.

Like you wouldn't describe reading hard if you, you know, if you learned it early and you were really proficient at reading. It's like, no, it's just easy. It's like everybody does it. So anyway, it's like dad taught me like basically hunting as early as I could remember. And so that's something I really am grateful about. But yeah, I mean, uh, it's, you know, you and your son have a relationship and you guys identifying grow together on certain things and some things you don't and you're different on, but that's okay.

Yeah. We love each other and we just keep working hard at that. And yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, go on and on and on. It's, uh, you know, you guys will learn this when your kids get older and, you know, I hate to be the guy who's just like, yeah, well, here's what you do. You know, I've been there, done that. I hate that type of person, but I'll just tell you, it's, uh,

When you're, you know, I think your dad used to say this about me, which is funny, but he'd say I was too competitive. No. Which is funny coming from Wayne. But. Ultra competitive. Yeah, which is, which is true. I am too competitive.

He's called me his greatest competitor. You know what I'm saying? But what, but the point I'm saying is like when you're a dad like that and you have sons, it's, it's hard. You push your kids very hard because that's how you are. So it's hard to know, did I push him too much? Did I whatever? And you hope that it comes back and you're like, because you do look back as a dad.

I know I did and probably maybe Wayne does too. We were like, God, I was, man, I was pretty hard on that kid, you know. And this is what we do. We love this. A kid doesn't know what he loves yet. But we're pushing them the same to trying to be at the same level. So yeah, it's just I think for people like me and your dad having boys, it's a challenge. It's a challenge knowing how hard is too hard.

Yeah. So. And I was going to say I brought it up with Tanner. But so when I was in the shop hanging out as a kid, that's where I met you. And I mean, unless you saw me as a younger kid, but I remember you from when I would just hang out at the bow rack and you come and shoot your bow and hang out. but early early on used to come in and say hey Nate um you want to go run with Tanner and I yeah and I mean could never do that until one day I did yeah yeah but um it was kind of fun just to remember that when I was listening to podcasts with truitt and yeah um you guys and that competitive thing I mean

I think it's valuable that you would I mean I became a good runner and a lot of my identity as a runner is like I knew I was decent because I'd run with I'd run against you before I'd run against other people and like yeah built confidence yeah I mean you have to have that yeah you were I was used to taking people over there at Piscna and them like getting crushed and then I took you over and I was just like whoa this kid can run so I mean it was it was evident the first time it's like you know you turned into obviously a great runner I mean ran at Portland State did you were you all-American in Portland State did you ever get there I cracked the top 10 at our conference in our conference the biggest guy. Weber State and NAU were both teams that would go to the national championships

and running against Oregon. And Oregon was one of the best in the nation and distance running. So, no, I've never really been like exceptional at the national level. But I would run against some of the best. Yeah, conference. Be in the mix. Yeah. I mean, but point is great, you know, college runner. But before all that, we went to Piscan, you know, it was evidence like, oh, okay, this kid's got something but yeah I remember yeah you guys have just been around forever been around forever been bo-hunting forever and it's for me you know now it I don't even feel that old but now I look back I'm like you know been bo-hunting as long as you guys have been alive essentially and it it's crazy to see you know like I said it doesn't feel like I'm the old guy but I'm definitely the old guy but it's awesome to

see you guys you know as I said I keep track I'm always always always impressed with animals you guys are killing. And just for, just because I don't know, but how many bowls have you guys killed? I know we're talking about bucks, but just how many bowls? I started killing them in 2013. I think it took me till I was 18 when I killed my first one, I guess. 17? I've killed 11 since then. 11? Yeah, I'm probably right around there. That's a lot of bulls. Yeah. I mean, all public land. Yeah. I've killed, I killed two in Wyoming. Did you? And the rest in Oregon?

Yeah, the rest have been in Oregon. Yeah. I mean, so killing a bowl with a bow is an accomplishment. Yeah, and that is all archery. Yeah, of course, that's all we do. Well, no, it's not all we do. You guys have talked about rifle hunting. But yeah, so killing 11 bowls with a bow and being young, you know, fairly young.

You've been bo hunting a long time, but still young men, that's impressive. You guys are, you know, heart hunters, doing it right, dedicated to the sport, not taking shortcuts. It's just a passion that it reminds me of me, drives you guys probably every day. It's like, what else do we think about? Oh, dude, listening to you and you and Kevin, Kevin Acres talking about it,

you know, just you talk about yourself younger. I see, you know, so many similarities and, you know, how I look at life. It's just like you and Kevin were talking about how like that week before season, week before archery elk season opens up that last, that week at work. You're just like, worthless. Yeah, like, well, you know, what am I doing? Like, you know, you just all you can think about is going and chasing bulls and man. Yeah.

That's kind of me. I get into that rut. And I guess that that feels like it's held me back from some things in life career-wise, I guess. You know, I've made a success of myself, I guess. But just the, just my life's passion is just bo-hunting. Yeah. You know, hunting out, doing everything, but man, yeah. Yeah, I know.

I understand. Yeah, because you make decisions in life and you're like, I know for me, I was putting hunting almost above everything. And then you talk about your professional career, your work career. For me, for years, I'm like, I don't even care what I do. Don't even care what my job is. I just know I'm going to hunt as much as possible. And that's not the greatest for setting yourself up for the future.

No. And then pretty soon you, you know, you have kids or you get older and you're just like, oh my God, I got to. But you want to hunt so bad that it's not an option. You have, you, so you've got to go chase down a good job. Yeah. So you can, you know, provide an income for your family and yourself and, you know, make a living so that you can hunt. You know, there's.

Yeah. It helps you. It motivates you in some ways, but probably distracts you and others. It's, it's a weird thing to be obsessed with something. Yeah. And I think that's. That's a, you know, the word's kind of a cliche, but truly obsessed with bow hunting. Yeah.

And just being out in the mounds. And it's just like any, anytime you're not there, you feel like you're missing something. That's how I feel. Yeah. It's like, I'm just, you know, this is all seems like, I don't want to say a waste of time because I'm around people I love and care about. I'm doing things that are important. But it just feels like I'm missing what I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. Is that how you guys feel about it? Yeah. I mean, I don't know, being out there and hunting and killing stuff, it's, that's, it's real. It's life and death. It's real. Yeah.

That just feels like what my entire, you know, personality is like based around. I don't know. I don't know how to not do it, how to take my foot off the gas and not be 100% intense about it. Yeah. It's hard. What's, you know, you got to get, you got to get up there to help your dad. so I don't want to get too crazy long here. But what,

so we're talking about, you know, your film is what I'm, you know, trying to get you guys to put out. I've been having upload issues with my hard drive in there. We're supposed to have Bo Nichols podcast out today.

So I think once we get that fixed, I'm going to have both your guys out this week. And that would be kind of cool for everybody. But so with the films and just your journey of just wanting to be the best bow hunters and the most adventures you can, what's, what's a goal? Like what's a long-term goal? What would, if you had a, if you could, your dreams would

come true, what would that look like? Do you want me to go first? Sure, if you got any red go. Well, I touched on it earlier, but with the film work too, like my outreach, that's really how I view it. And the most recent films I'm made, there's two of them. They're really short. And it's titled like more than a hunt for like a series. And so what I really want to do long term is continue to hunt with people in a very authentic way. If I make a film I do, if I, if I didn't get it, I don't. And show that hunting is more than just that that. I mean, yes, it's the process of killing an animal and packing it out, but there's so much more. And it's that shared experience. You have such a, you have such a tight bond with the people you hunt with. Yeah. And also displaying that

in the film. So displaying their character. And I hunted with this guy Joe Stark this year. And he's just an outstanding guy. He served in the military. You know, he's a blacksmith, a blade smith. And like, there's so many great qualities about this guy. And he took a 40, what was that, 4570? Is that the-45-70 lever action? Yeah. And it's limited to about 100 yards, 120 yards max.

And he made a shot on a buck in the high country with that. And he's kind of talking about it. And we shared this experience in this hunt. And I tried to capture it. But I really want people to see how much, how rich it is to be out there and share that. And can I capture it? And I don't tell long stories with my films. I try to make it short.

If I get a critique, their critiques always I want to see more. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, you want to see more up into a certain point, and then you're skipping. Yeah. And it's like, I don't want you to feel they need to skip through my film. So if you want more, that's an accomplishment.

And that means you'll come back for more maybe. And hopefully my outreach is that you see. There's so much more to hunting. And they're so meaningful and it's rich, and it changes your life. It changes the lives of people you hunt with. Right. And also you're eating that,

and it's literally growing your human body. And so that is what I'm passionate about. And I like film. But film in and in of itself, it's meaningless. But you have to tell that story in a way that makes meaning. And so that's what I love about film work. That's why I even take the camera. I'd be so much better as a hunter, like, did not worry about the camera.

Right. There's been a lot of times watching your film where I'm like, put the camera down to kill that thing. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. Sometimes it's like I get to hunt longer. Why it's important too is we've all grown up watching films. Yeah. You know, like reliving those hunts through video.

And so it is a hassle, but you don't know who's going to watch it, who is going to change their life, you know, and ignite something in them. So it's important. It's a, I do, I hate doing it too. But I just, I just love this life so much that it feels selfish to not share it if we can, if we have the ability. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's, you're doing a good job. What about you? Well, just the redneck kid from Springfield. here. I'm going to have a hard time, you know, topping his vocabulary, you know, the way of presenting that. But I don't know. I don't, I just,

the most important thing for me is to never, just to never, never bastardize the way that, that I hunt. I just, I just want to continue, you know, providing a good life for my family and then being able to, to be out there and hunting in a fashion that just, that that fills me and you know feels right i i don't ever

never want to have to change what i do for anybody else anything like that as long as i can continue to you know chase wild places and wild animals and public lands that's that's my end goal i mean i i don't have anything to promote i don't have i don't have i don't have an instagram i probably your first podcast guest without an instagram i guess i don't know but i'm here to promote why it sure yeah yeah well that's you know what that's what I did with Roy. I promoted Roy. Roy didn't care about any of that.

I would write the articles about him. I'd, you know, get him out there. He was just kind of your attitude too. And I was just like, you know, people need to see what you're doing. Sure. And understand, you know, how you look at things. So that's okay. Yeah.

Something Roy said is the hunting field is my mission field. Exactly. And Nate recorded that. And so it's like, had you not had that on film, I mean, that's such a powerful. I feel like, too, like a lot of my film work, I'm reminded of that statement. And it means film has meaning. Hunts have meaning.

You mentioned Nate Simmons there. I guess when I grow up, I want to beat Nate. Me too. Nate Simmons is somebody that I've modeled my hunting system. The way I hunt, I've modeled a lot of it from watching Nate Simmons. He does fantastic videography, him and Randy Rockie. They do amazing film work. I've met Nate a couple times, you know, the Western Hunt.

Expo. Yeah. Just such a humble guy. You know, if I could model my life and myself and my hunting endeavors after him, I mean, quite honestly, yeah, I, you know, if I ended up doing anything like he does for living, you know, I guess I'd have to start filming some more stuff and caring about that. Did a great job, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, likewise, so much respect for Nate. Yep. Yep. And he stayed true to himself this whole time too. Exactly. Stayed true to himself. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, yeah, I mean, Nate, I don't know if you guys listen to the podcast. He did one where he was talking about like he charts.

I think he holds his bow back for a certain amount of time, like getting ready for season. Yeah. And like he'll hold it back just to build those muscles up right down how long you could hold and just keeps doing like this whole process. And it's just every night out in his garage is dedicated to just holding the bow back. And then he would shoot just do the blind bail shooting, just this whole big thing. but it's all, it's all bow hunting. Yeah.

It's all just married to this, to the tradition of bow hunting. And it's, that's what's driven him forever. Yeah. You know, his first bull, I think he killed his bow when he was 13.

And he was ahead of me for a long time. I mean, he's killed so many bulls. So many big bulls. Some years he would kill three, yeah. Yeah. Public land.

I know he killed, Montana, Wyoming. Giant. He killed like two and I, you could buy that if they weren't sold out, the non-resident in Idaho. So he killed two,

bulls in Idaho and then one in Oregon. And just, you know, I mean, people probably know the story, but he, you know, his first time ever filming was finding me 12 miles back in the Eagle Cap Wilderness, had to walk all night, never even been there. And I just told him these weird directions on how to get through the saddle here, this, this and that, then walk across there at first light and you can film me. And I was just like, there's no way this kid's going to be here. He was like 20-7 years old at this time.

And sure of shit, I was sitting over there looking at first light. opening day and it's like he freaking made it he made it and then film we felt you know didn't get the bull killed on film we got the buck killed yeah yeah it was like a long shot like as the deer's leaving you're like how did

he get that air line there oh I was gonna say this yeah so somehow perfect quartering away went right here buck straight down the hill died but I was gonna say this too Nate so you talked about you know maybe people could say well you got lucky on that buck you know getting so opportunities and then even the shot seemed like you screwed up and reminded you.

I drilled it perfectly. I think I left out that detail. Yeah, we did. It drilled it. It drilled the buck. Right. You said he was pretty much dead. On the ricochet.

On the ricochet, it drilled him perfect. The wedge of the shoulder blade, like where that comes down, it misses the shoulder blade and drills the buck perfectly. And it had come in at such an angle. Yeah, I think what happened is it just hit that, it, you know, and it's an angle. It flips. You know, you could say that's lucky, but how many people can, you know, ricochet an arrow.

You called that. You called that. Well, of course, you have to call it. Like a three-point shot. It's like three-point shot. But like I said, ricochet off the tree and then hit the buck perfectly and die right below me after I thought. Well, what it reminded me of too is because there's times where you do everything right and you don't get it for whatever reason. Something crazy happens. And you're just like, that was my kill.

That was it. And bow hunting justice didn't go your way. Then there's sometimes like on that, my Steen's buck, my first. First good deer, I shot, you know, binoculars hanging down on the string shot, ripped my binoculars off, arrow went who knows where I get another opportunity and hit him good. But it's just like, should I've got another chance? Probably not. I had them at 20 yards straight below me and screwed it up.

But sometimes when it should have worked and it doesn't, sometimes maybe it shouldn't work out and it does, it all evens out in the wash. right yeah and i mean again it's like i know that there's a lot of components of luck in that story and how i told it but i think more consciously is that as a hunter you also have to be a good tracker and i think we overlook this all the time and i hear countless stories from guys that hey i think i hit something i'm not really sure and they don't know what to do right it's like they've never been in the situation of really being a good tracker so i could say that while that was kind of somewhat of a you know a mishap, I didn't give up.

And I knew, like, I had to keep trying. And there was this detective work or forensic work that I went into in order to find that buck and it worked out. Now, it may not have ever happened that way, but it did. And I'm super happy and blessed. Yeah. That is a big part of bow hunting. Not every animal is going to go 50 yards and pile up in sight. Yeah.

You know, I mean, sometimes it's, any hunting is imperfect. Any killing's imperfect. Rifle hunts, sometimes you got a blood trail them there also. But with bow hunting, that's a big part of it. We kill by hemorrhage. We don't kill by devastation. So with hemorrhage, they're going to go a certain distance. You're going to have to figure out how to recover them, how to find them after that.

So it is a huge part of bow hunting. It's woodsmanship, blood trailing. You do kind of, you get better at autopsies pretty much. So you're trying to perform. an autopsy without the animal there just by the blood and the arrow and the hair you're finding. And what you can remember. And yeah. And like you mentioned this also is people do, they turn the shot into what they wanted,

not what happened. And your mind is so powerful. You're like, Oh, I hit it perfect. And then it turns out, no, he didn't.

I mean, I've been on a lot of, watch the film. Yeah. And that's where I'm super thankful on film too because, um, I mean, that bowl right there.

that giant bowl from San Carlos, that one. I shot that and Kip said, oh, no penetration hanging out of the shoulder. And I was like, no, that thing, I smoked it. I hit it perfect. He's like, no, dangling on the shoulder, no penetration. And I'm like, give me the phone. So he recorded on the phone. And then I went frame by frame by frame.

And when you ran off, the arrow was hanging out, but it disappeared and backed out. Yes. But you create these things in your head. And it's hard to know. So film definitely helps retell the story. But most people don't have film. So you have to be good at not only and we kind of, we kind of lose ourselves a lot of times.

And the emotion. In Africa, they're really good at remembering right where the animal was and knowing right where the arrow is going to go. They're so good at being dialed in. I've learned a lot from just trying to absorb that moment. Because sometimes you shoot and then you get over there And you're just like, God, where, now where was I? Where was this animal?

And it is really hard because it, you don't take those good, that good mental image of exactly where the animal was. Yeah. It happens so fast. One way or another, you need to figure out a way, um, to stay present. Like throughout the, like the animal coming in, making your shot, whether it's, you know, I have a little mantra that I just kind of keep repeat to myself, especially through my shot process that keeps me, you know, present with,

that moment and I think that that's really important to being a good bow hunter because for one it's going to help you make better shots and then it's going to help you help you see where that arrow hit like what's your process so when I when I you know if I have an animal that's in range or getting close to being in range I'm just talking myself the whole time like do it right pick a spot do it right pick a spot do it right pick a spot and that's what I try to remind myself of that just to keep myself from getting whacked out and getting excited and going outside in my body. So, and then that's, that's what I say, if I'm shooting a target, I do the same thing as I am starting to draw my bow. It's do it right, pick a spot. And then I'll come to full draw.

You know, and I talk myself through it, I said anchor, click. And then like that click and my hinge releases, my final, that solidifies everything's there. And then from that, I just say, level and, you know, pull, pull, pull, boom, it goes off. might have copied it from Joel Turner. But yeah, I think that's so important to stay present. Yeah. You just have to figure out a way to do it. There was, I called the bull in for a kid this year.

A guy, he's older than me. It was, he was my camp neighbor. We got to become pretty good friends, actually. And I had to go back over there to pick up my camp trailer for the last weekend of season. and he's like, you know, he was striking out. He had hunted hard all season long. And he's like, dude, will you go with me tomorrow? I'm like, yeah, yeah, let's go.

I'm going to do it. So we went out there, got this full to answer. And I'm like, I spotted him. Like, dude, he's on a ridge right there. I actually got him to answer from the truck, which I don't promote you any from your truck. We had struck out in the first spot. And I'm like, you waited 10 minutes.

Yeah, I'm like after you turn off the ignition. Yeah, out the window. 10 notes. So I'm like, well, we stopped. I'm like, okay, I got another spot. I want to go. go to after the first one was dry. But on the way, I'm like, we've got to stop here. So we stop and let it anyways, get this bull to answer. I glass over on the ridge and I'm like, he's right

there. You know, he's, dude, he's on the ridge. He's by himself. Like, he's headed, he's headed our way. We're standing at the truck. I'm like, forget your pack, get your bow for going. I know where he's at. So anyways, we charge in there and this will relate back to, you know, staying present. But anyways, thought I knew where the bull was at. We'd get up there, set him up, drop back over the hill or the mountain side of the bull I calcull like three times and next thing I just hear whack you know it sounded really I thought I heard this crack I can all I can see is limbs shaking after the bull wheeled and left and I go up there and like what happened he's like dude he was right there 20 yards and I'm like okay I'm like was it a good shot I'm like it sounded good he's like yeah

no it felt good you know maybe maybe back of the lungs a little bit and I'm like okay so you know we're like yeah that's crazy can't believe that happened last day of season we go walk up there and we're looking for his arrow and I look, I'm like, it's right there. And it's buried in a tree. And I'm like, I look down at it. I'm like, oh, yeah, it looks good. You know, the veins are all covered and stuff. And I go down there to pull it out. And I look a little closer. I'm like, that's not blood. That's like, that stomach matter. I'm like, okay. I'm like, you sure? You sure it was a good shot? And he's like, yeah, no, well, you know, it kind of felt like, you know, he might have been quartered two a little bit.

And as I shot, I kind of drifted toward the back. And I'm like, okay. But I'm like, well, he was quartering two. He's like, yeah, I think so. I'm like, well, I heard a crack. So you must have got, you must have went in in the rip cage. Yeah. You probably exited through the guts.

But so, you know, we kind of made ourselves believe that it might have been a better shot than what it was. So either way, we're giving him time. So we give him several hours. We come back, get on the blood trail. Another reason I thought he might have hit him better than just the guts is there was a fair amount of blood. So we get there. We follow that for a ways.

And pretty soon we're out of blood. And I'm like, well, he's going down this draw. We kind of figured where he might be checked off a couple timber patches, not in there. I'm like, he's got to be down further in this draw. We get down there, jump him. Seven hours later, we jump him. And he said, well, what now? I'm like, I don't know.

We're going to have to, it's going to take a long time. Like, he's not dead. So he ended up giving it until the next morning, went back in there, gave it a final effort. and found the bull. But he had shot him just the way it happened, whatever he hit him square in the gut. So all that to say, being present in the moment

and knowing being real with yourself where that arrow hits so important to being a good bow hunter. It's just, it's tough. It really can help you. Yeah. We should have given that bull more time

than what we did. Had we known it was just a square. Square guts. Yeah. I mean, you're hoping probably caught liver. Yeah. We were hoping for that,

figuring he did. Yeah. I was confident we'd find him dead. Yeah. When he's saying, you know, maybe back along, you're thinking, okay, worst case liver.

Yeah. You know, so yeah, I understand making that mistake. But it, and it's tough too because you turn it into what you want. Yep. I mean, it happens all the time. So it's hard to be honest with yourself. It is. Because you work so hard, especially when you got somebody there that's helping you out,

you don't want to be the guy who, yeah, got shot him. You know, so you're trying to twist that story to make everybody feel better, including yourself. Unintentionally. It's not even a plan. No. But. And then staying present in the fact of seeing the last place they went.

Yeah. Like you said, in Africa, that's so important. And I picked that up from, you know, I mean, I guess it's just nature. But I listen to it's probably Bowhunter magazine. They're the TV show they had, Bowhunter TV. Randy Omer would be on there with his tech tips. One of his tech tips one time was, or I can't remember what his segment was called. But anything Randy says is gold.

Yeah. He talked to him. And you'll see that when I shoot this buck in the film. He talked about. shooting and then just remaining a statue, not necessarily like holding your bow up and following through, but shooting and then not moving for one, so you're not alerting the animal of your presence,

not pushing it further, and then just standing like a statue and watching your animal runoff and then taking into consideration that every movement it makes, what your air look like, can you see the wound, where was the last place you saw it? Yeah, yeah, that's good. I mean, he's done it a lot,

so I would listen to him also. Yeah, that's one thing about being immersed in the sport too is where you can learn, If you have the, like, you have to have the, some people, their mindset isn't, doesn't lend itself to learning. If people think they have, they know what to do and they have all the answers, you're not going to learn anything. But if you're like always learning,

always wanting to get better and have that, like that. Overcoming. Yeah, and just, you know, just being open. Yeah, just to be open to like, okay, what can I gain from this? What can I take from this guy? what can you take from that guy that's how it works that's how you get better yeah well so much of what defines us as humans is our ability to overcome you know that um and so i mean yeah if we if we

didn't if we threw in the towel at any point with you name it in life you know that's going to be your definition of who you are yeah and humans survived over all of time because they what overcame something yeah and so when i'm hunting it's the constant reminder of you have to overcome this you have to So you're constantly learning and overcoming. You have to. And we'll wrap this up with what's the, what do you think is the most important lesson you've learned from the herd bowl? Oh, shoot.

As soon as you drop back, put your finger in front of the trigger. I mean, it's relevant to today and I didn't do it. And he's honed me on that. Like I draw back and he's like, put your finger in front of the trigger. Touch the trigger. And I'm like, oh, you know, it's something. So, I mean, my dad's got so many good lessons in archery. That was a big one.

It was relevant. Yeah. And then I would say, too, is that when I've ever been in a situation because I've bo-hunted since I was a little kid and I've made some bad decisions, I always have the reminder from dad, that voice in my head of you have to give it everything you have to where you have like every reason to believe that there's no hope to some desired outcome, right? Like if you made a bad shot or something like that. Yeah.

Yeah. So I have this voice in my head. All options. That's it. Exhaust every option before you quit. Don't quit unless you know that you've done everything you can. And so that's always cared with me. It's like dad's voice is reminding me.

So I'd say that's probably a better one that carried through to this hunt too. Well, it's, yeah, do you have one? Yeah, do you have from the herd bowl? Yeah. Like I said, Wayne's been a big part of my life. You know, I learned to hunt from my dad, my grandfather, you know, and got a lot of passion sparked to me from them. So that got me started.

But then there was just like this point getting into my teens where I wanted it so bad. And I was fortunate enough to, I went on this spring bear hunt, which to him and other kids have done for a long time. And I had been frothing at the mouth to go do that. And finally, I got my chance to go. It was Kellyn, Nate, Jared.

Yeah, which they're kind of like, They're not quite a generation ahead of me, but I mean, I guess. They're a little bit older. They're 10 years older than me or close to it. So they had done it, and I'd always watch that. And then I had this wrestling coach, Guy Harris, who's a friend of Waynes. And he's like, we're going to get you over there. We're going to go bear hunting.

But you've got to wrestle freestyle this spring. So fine, whatever. So I get through. Anyways, we got over there. And I just learned on that hunt from Wayne, Guy, too. It's just the whole thing of like, you're hunting these big giant, 3,000 foot deep canyons in northeast Oregon. And, you know, the way I came up, we wouldn't even consider, like,

sure there maybe there's something down there's work. That's impossible. I think it's called Hell's Canyon, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, it doesn't sound good. Yeah. It could be that. Yeah.

That's big country, too. Yeah, it's just, I went on that hunt, and I took away from it like, oh, we don't have to be, you don't have to be afraid of when you're going to get back to the truck. Yeah. You're not taking into consideration. when am I going to make it out? Or what's the packout going to look like?

It's like, let's just go kill it and find out. That's how I just, I took it from that, from Wayne on that hunt. He just instilled in me on that. He's like, look, people are going to look at this country and say that no way, but he's like, we don't. He's like, we hunt this stuff. This is where the animals are. We know to find animals here that other people aren't going to chase. So I just have taken that from him.

And that just completely changed my mindset and morphed it into my. my own thing too, I guess, but it's, you know. The seed was planted with, yeah, with that. It's just like kind of hunt with almost reckless abandon of when you're going to get home, how far away from the truck. Is it dark? Like, don't be afraid to hike out back to your truck in the dark. Yeah.

That's it. That's, that's, you know, among everything in life that I've taken from Wayne, like that, that hunting trip with Wayne set into motion, you know, who I am. now. I think that, you know, a big marker of success in our life is the impact we have on others. And when I think of Wayne, I think about the thousands of people. He's not only helped introduce to archery, but also mentored in hunting. And so if that is a marker of success, then Wayne, he should feel good about all the positive influence he's been on so many young men and women. We're very lucky. You're lucky to have him as a dad. I know it probably wasn't easy at times.

but uh you know we're we're lucky to have the bow rack here and have this great bow hunting community all the community we came up in is i mean unbelievable and uh and you guys are the next generation coming up and doing it you know you're making you're making the old guys proud so thank you i appreciate you saying that and you are always so generous like last thing i want to say is that while you are so busy and doing your thing you still respond to me and you still are nice and you always say I'm proud of you and different things like that. Like wow. Yeah. Thank you. I felt the same from you and it's always been cool to, you know, it's been like us later in life for me, but being, it seems like we always talk a lot. Yeah. During late season, we're always like,

oh yeah, this box on camera, you know, I haven't seen a deer yet. Yeah. And it's, it's pretty cool. I can't believe that, you know, I'm here. I feel so blessed and thankful to be on your podcast and I'm thankful for everything that you've gone through in life to bring you to this point because it just feels like every decision I've ever made in life, I guess, has led me here. Here we are and we're able to tell our story. Just a bow hunter from Springfield, Oregon. Just a blue-collar guy. That's right.

It feels pretty cool and I just want to thank you for allowing us on here to tell our story. Well, you know, as Nate said, I am proud of both of you. You guys, you know, as you make the old guys proud, your effort and your passion is something I could admire. And I know you guys are going to have a ton of success. You've already had some amazing success. This year is an incredible marker of that, and we're gonna have that film.

We can share with everybody. It's gonna be exciting, so keep up the good work, guys. Thank you. Thanks, absolutely. Bass Pro shops and Cabela's know that everyone has their season. Deer season, turkey season, duck season, every animal is a unique challenge, every hunt, a different experience. And I count on my local Cabela store here in Springfield, Oregon,

to gear me up with all my hunting necessity. my hunting necessities. And you know, I like to support companies that give back to conservation. Under the leadership of founder John Morris, Bass Pro Shop and Cabellas are leading North America's largest conservation movement. Together with our partners, they're positively shaping the future of the outdoors through donations, grant writing, and advocacy. Head to their website, Bassproshop.com, or Cabellas.com, and get geared up for your upcoming hunts. Mountain Ops has been my go-to supplements for the past seven years. My exclusive Keep Hemmering Line of Products offers a blended protein powder, BCAAs, and a pre-workout that I take every day.

I also use their greens, reds, and they actually have a new hydration product called hydrate that I used before every run. Mountain Ops has been a great partner over the years, and I especially love all they do to give back to the community. Every purchase made on the Mountain Ops website gives back to a family in need. They also give away a ton of different hunting opportunities. They even gave away an elk hunt and a deer hunt at one of my most cherished hunting spots in Utah. If you listen to the podcast, you also get 20% off by using code cam. That's CAM at www.m.W.mountainops.com.