Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 053 - There’s A Different Breed of Man

Episode Date: January 2, 2024

Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Books: Unforgettable Bowhunters: https://www.amazon.com/Unforgettable-Bowhunters-M-R-James/dp/B00AB4IGQ0  Silvertip: https://footedshaft.com/products/silvertip-the-life-and-adventures-of-paul-schafer-master-bow-hunter-and-bowyer  Backcountry Bowhunting: https://cameronhanes.com/products/backcountry-bowhunting-book  Thank you to our sponsors: Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first Order Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/  Eight Sleep: http://eightsleep.com/cam and get $200 off   Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code Cam for 15% off  MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Bass Pro/Cabelas: https://www.basspro.com Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Cam’s Favorite Books 0:04:17 A Special Breed of Man 0:08:23 Archer: Paul Schafer 0:11:23 Archer: Dwight Schuh 0:12:53 Generational Stories 0:14:36 Excerpt From 45 Unforgettable Bowhunters 0:16:38 Forward from “Backcountry Bowhunting” 0:17:32 How Cam & Dwight Became Friends 0:21:08 The Adventure of Bowhunting 0:24:56 “Deliverance” by Dwight Schuh 0:33:21 Alaska Brown Bear Hunt: Roy’s Temperament  0:39:17 “Deliverence” Contd. 0:48:07 “A Different Breed of Man” by Cameron Hanes 0:52:14 Earning Respect From Roy 0:53:29 Roy Doesn’t Hunt for Glory 0:55:15 Outro 

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move is so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right, welcome to the Keep Hammering Collective. This is going to be part of my Roy series.

But this segment here, you know, I did the prelude already to it, But this segment here is, I'm going to talk about Roy, but I'm also going to talk about there's a group of men of bow hunters who I've been following for years or known about for years, maybe not even have met, but because of media, you know, media gets a lot of, I don't know, I don't want to say there is some negativity to social media. but with regard to hunting, there's a group of hunters who, I don't know, think that we shouldn't be celebrating what we love, which is the hunting tradition. And yeah, we're reaching more people now, and to me that's a good thing.

You know, we can share why we love archery, why we love bow hunting, why we love hunting in general with millions of people. Back in the day, I did the same thing I'm doing now. I just loved everything about archery. and, you know, it changed my life. So now I'm just doing that same thing. I'm just sharing just like with these old books I have right here. This is the one that I mentioned the other day with my first segment.

This is Hunting with the Bone Arrow by Saxon Pope, special introduction by Fred Bear. This is the one that mentions of rawhide and sinew being that tough. There's books like this one by MR. James, 45 unforgettable bow hunters, all badasses. Love that book. One of my favorite books of all time hunting books is life at full draw. This is the Chuck Adams story.

And Chuck Adams is, you know, it's crazy to me that a lot of new bow hunters these days might not even know who Chuck Adams is. One of the most accomplished bow hunters of all time just did incredible things. One of my heroes and mentor, not really mentors, because I didn't know him, but he was a hero from afar. I read all his stuff. Couldn't believe that one year he killed 10 Popin Young animals that I was just like, how could you kill? I mean, killing 10 animals seemed crazy with the bow and then have them all be record book class, which, you know, for people that don't know bow hunting, Pope and Young, that's the record book that they score these antlers.

and based on symmetry and size and length and mass, a total number comes up and it has to reach a minimum to make the Pope and Young record book. Well, Chuck killed 10 or maybe he's in 13. I can't remember now, but it was a crazy amount. I'm like, this guy's unbelievable. And so this book here had a huge impact on me. And I remember, you know, if you look at this quote,

which is in life at full draw the Chuck Adams story. It's by Eugene Harrigal who wrote Zen in the Art of Archery. His quote is, You have become a different person in the course of these years. For this is what the art of archery means, a profound and far-reaching contest of the archer with himself. You will see with other eyes and measure with other measures. It happens to all who are touched by the spirit of this.

art and that's zen and the art of archery and that's what bow hunting does not not for everybody i mean bow hunting isn't for everybody it's freaking really hard but um for the people that embrace it and love the challenge it i mean it's it's life-defining so in these group you know i talk about there's a special breed of men and i think joe rogan summed it up perfectly in this quote. I want you to listen to this quote right here. Human beings that have different temperament and different minds and different mentality and a ruthless competitive drive that's almost terrifying to the ordinary person. There's a thing inside some people that is a driving force that allows them to overcome the greatest around them.

He's a fucking conqueror. He's a fucking conqueror. So that's what I think of. When I think of guys like Paul Schaefer right here, that's what this book is about. I talked about Silver Tip on one of the Joe Rogan episodes that I did. And Bob Whittenauer wrote this incredible book. But Paul Schaefer, Bart Shiler, who I also talked about, Roy knew him up in Alaska. These guys, it's just another level. And so it's weird to me to see there's a group of men nowadays who, I mean, there's pages dedicated to taking shots at me because of, you know, the animals I kill

or how many hunts I go on a year. And I just, I don't, it's like so foreign that mindset to think about another man. And like this man is accomplishing or doing this. And it's, it makes me feel a certain way. Loophole optics has been providing my binoculars and eyewear for the last few years. I like that it's an Oregon company and they make such high quality glass. It's all I've really used. And if you can't find what you're hunting, it's going to be tough to kill. So loophole optics has really played an integral part in my success these last few years. Thank you loophole for supporting the podcast. It's like, I don't, I don't even get that. I do not get when I, when I, when I, you know, I do remember being jealous or being envious when I was, you know,

you know when I was like five and that's what kids do right they can't get attention for doing good things so they do bad things so I acted out at school and I got attention for being a bad kid right once I got past that age it was just like okay I don't I know how to get attention I'm not going to feel jealous or envious to somebody and want to get some weird type of attention negative attention or create some issue just to put the spotlight on myself. So these guys who are like, you know, so worked up about what I do or where I hunt or how many hunts I go on, it's just, it's foreign to me. Because if I see somebody who's accomplished what I want to, like Chuck Adams back in the day,

I would say, instead of hate on Chuck, I would say, how can I get, what can I do? how can I experience that type of life right and so it's it's like an inspiration or it's a it helps me set a goal a big goal and it's not not to slight any other man you know we have we use other men as measuring sticks and i remember roy and i would you know we'd go on hunts and we'd say well has any man ever done this and if a man has done it we thought that we could do it we're men too so if somebody else did it we can do it and that's the mindset these guys who i'm talking about here guaranteed they're not even worried about anybody else any other man they're not like it's not even on the radar they're focused on their own goals what they can do living

this incredible wild existence doing amazing things in some of the most breathtaking country on earth, they're not thinking about, oh, this guy did this and he killed a bull and now I can't kill a bull. It's like, so I don't, I mean, these are the type of men who I want to, I want to resonate with or have their words impact me. I don't even get somebody a defeatist type. It's just a crazy attitude. So when I read these, I'm like, this is, like, this is inspirational. One of my favorite packages that I get on a monthly basis is the Black Rifle Coffee Club exclusive coffee roast. The only way you can get it is if you subscribe to the coffee club. The exclusive coffee subscription gives you nothing but the best.

It's a coffee the month club where you get premium roast from the best farms worldwide. Black Rifle Coffee is America's coffee. It's veteran owned and operated. They support hunting and conservation and give back immensely to the veteran community. They're offering followers of the podcast 20% off on your first purchase to the coffee club or orders on their site using code. Keep hammering to get America's coffee today. I want to talk about, well, a few of them, but Paul Schaefer, incredible Bowhunter, he died much too young. A lot of these guys who, you know, it's, the mounds are unforgiving.

So Paul died. Bart Shiler died. They say he got, you know, eaten by a grizzly after he killed a moose. But Bob wrote, or Bart's mentioned in this a lot along with Paul Schaefer, but Bob Woodenauer wrote this and he, it was so nice. I mean, you guys got to read this book. It's an incredible book, Silver Tip. But he, you know, wrote a really nice card to me.

And I didn't know it at this time, but pretty crazy. you one story that that Paul Schaefer had is he killed a sheep and it was on the edge of a cliff and he had to hold onto a tree and hold on to the leg of the sheep with the other arm and it's 250 pound sheep and he pulled it up on this cliff. I didn't know of that story when I did a similar thing in 2008 with my doll sheep and I'm sure it's still on YouTube. But Bob mentions that here and when he sent me this book in 2021. So not even that long ago. But I told him how much I liked the book, so he sent this to me, and he sent me a few extra copies so I could give him away, and I have. I gave one to my son, you got, you know, just love giving them out because, again, this is spreading the word of bow hunting.

That's a special part of our tradition. So he writes, I am pleased that you enjoyed Silver Tip, and I thank you for promoting it in on your podcast. You've had a positive influence on my book sales and my family. I particularly enjoyed how you tied your sheep and wrestled to the, I particularly enjoyed how you tied your sheep wrestling to the match. Paul also had at the edge of the cliff a great video. As a tangible thank you, I've included a few gift books for you. Please use them. At age 79 with a new ankle replacement, my world adventures are shrinking, but if your adventures bring you our way, please look me up or any of the wooden hours or Sniders.

and we'll try to have some fun together. Our best wishes to you for all you do, your friend Bob Woodenauer. But this book, as I said, it's incredible, impactful. Paul and Bart both shot like super high-poundage bows, and these are recurves. And, you know, a lot of people these days,

you say you shoot a high-poundage bow, they're like, oh, you're doing it for ego, or you could do the same thing with the 70 or 60 pound. It's just like, I don't even, it doesn't even make sense to me. These guys weren't worried about anybody else are shooting for a bow or the poundage or it's just a non-factor. It's a non-factor for people like this. The next archer I was going to discuss is Dwight Shoe,

because Dwight Shoe, he wrote, a great article about hunting with Roy. And again, as I said the last time when I read Baba Mien's article in Frank Nostka, it's one thing if I say something about Roy. Obviously, I'm biased. We grew up together. We learned bow hunting together. I'm going to, I'm going to, I mean, he's, I'm his number one fan, right? Roy was incredible. But when somebody like Dwight Shoe, who if people, again, I'm going to use this as a way to celebrate. archery and the world of archery. But Dwight Shoe was, yeah, just one of the most impactful figures in archery for the last, I don't know, number of decades. When I started bow hunting,

I watched a video that was with Dwight Shoe and Larry D. Jones, another archery legend. And it was called Elk Fever. I watched that video, thousands of of times. I mean, it was, it was the reason why I wanted to bow hunt elk. So Dwight was, you know, the man back then, he went and was editor of this magazine, Bowhunter magazine, I think one of the best bohunting magazines of all time. And then before him, the editor at Bowhunter was M.R. James wrote a book, 45 unforgettable bowhunters. And these are all the legends. So again, This is a history. This is why we need to do stuff like that.

This is why we celebrate hunting and tell these stories. And we share our history and our lessons and our adventures. So it impacts others. Just like these men have impacted me, it is our responsibility to impact the next generation because that's what keeps our passion alive. That's what keeps this tradition of boll hunting and hunting alive. It's passing down these stories, sharing these stories.

Yes, people will say, you know, I don't know, you know, 10,000 years ago, there's cave drawings telling the story of a hunt. And then it was, well, you'd have some old black and white pictures or you'd have an artist rendering. And then it was maybe we had some good pictures. And then some film, like when Fred Barrers started coming up, he made, he made these films on incredible adventures in Alaska. And then it evolves. And now it's a different form of media, as I said, at social media. But the point is, it's like we've always shared the adventures of the hunts.

We've always shared, you know, the close calls, the everything that makes a hunt special. That's what, that's the responsibility of hunters to get that down to where it can be recorded and shared. So we got to do it. I mean, we've got to do it. Otherwise, this is a pastime that's going to die, guaranteed. Because without that history, I don't know. It's just going to fade away, I'm afraid. So 45 Unforgettable Bowhunters, M.R. James writes, and this one's about Dwight Shoe.

And I'll give a little preview of Dwight Shoe before I get into his article about hunting with Roy. But M.R. writes regarding Dwight, some outdoor writers write well enough, but tend to rely on hyperbole and embellishments rather than shooting skill and harder success. to turn out suitable manuscripts. They've learned a long time ago, it's much easier to hit a big game article with a typewriter key that a well-placed bullet or broadhead. Read their articles and you may be convinced they're knowledgeable, efficient hunters,

meet them, talk to them, or hunt with them, and you may come away disappointed or disillusioned. So just saying basically that they write better than they hunt. I mean, they can just tell a story and who knows how much fact or fiction is, involved, maybe a little more fiction than fact, and then you meet him and you're like, uh, yeah, it's not really adding up. Because you can tell, you can tell pretty quickly if somebody has what it takes to be a good hunter. You can fake it on paper. It's tough to fake in person.

So, MR writes, continues on about Dwight. Other writers have talents, which are not limited to telling tales and attempting to impress their readers with glowing accounts of their accomplishments. These people are good writers and good hunters. Their articles entertain and inform. They tell it as it is. Share a hunting camp with them and you'll generally walk away impressed. Dwight Shoe is one such writer. So that's regarding Dwight.

And Dwight wrote an incredible book. I have it here also. It's called Bowhunting for Mule Deer. Just a legendary book. He is in the archery and bow hunting hall of fame. I'm telling you, top of the mountain. when it comes to the history of bow hunters. And what's crazy is like, as I said,

he was so influential for me starting out. My first year was in 1989 when I killed my first bull. And he wrote the forward to my book in Backcountry Bowhunting. And he, I think he even mentions in here, he thought we had somewhat of a kindred spirit just because he grew up in Oregon, went to the University of Oregon with a journalism degree.

And that's why he writes, right, in the foreword, to some extent, Cameron and I are kindred spirits. We both grew up in Oregon, and we started bohunting. We were both short of money and long a desire to satisfy our obsessions while keeping the cost down. We hunted on public lands, and we hunted do-it-yourself without guides. We also frequently hunted alone, either because we couldn't find anyone else dumb enough to go along or because we simply preferred to go alone. During our early years, we hunted primarily by backpacking, but later we both acquired pack almost extended our mobility and range in the backcountry.

So that's Dwight, wrote the forward for me, and we actually became friends. It's in 2008, my first time running Boston, Dwight also, he trained hard. He always trained hard. He was always in shape, which was another connection I had with him. Back in the day, I think he'd run 10Ks and things like that, you know, as he was getting ready for bow hunting. But in 2008, he qualified for Boston. I think he ran a marathon down in California. I had qualified, I think, here in Eugene.

So we were both going to go run Boston. It was a, for any marathoner, that's like a dream race, right? It's the most historic marathon in the U.S. Everybody knows about the Boston Marathon. So we both qualified. We both wanted to go. Dwight said, you get back to Boston and like some of those older East Coast towns like that,

everything stacked on top of each other, space is very limited, lots of people. And so, like the hotel rooms are small, older buildings. They're just piling people in there because, as I said, it's limited real estate. Well, Dwight said, I think he said he's having a hard time finding a hotel room or maybe they are very expensive. So he asked if I hadn't one. I said, yeah, I got one, you know, pretty close to where we need to take the shuttle to get to the start line. And, you know, I'm sure I got room in the hotel room. You can just stay with me.

So he said, okay, so we got there, got to Boston, we checked in, got to the front desk. I said, yeah, I'm, you know, reservation haines, this and that. And I said, so is it, I said, as opposed to like a king bed, could I get two queen beds because I got, you know, somebody who's going to be bunking with me? They said, oh, we only have one bed here at this hotel. there's no no rooms have two beds and i was like oh okay so it turns out dwight and i slept in the same bed there and uh yeah i don't really know how we i can't remember if we had pillows lined up in between us but i don't know what happened but but either way bow hunting legend one of my heroes

growing up we're sharing a bed in boston we both ran good races i think he came in maybe right under four hours you know he was older than me at this time it was a pretty good marathon than that was year that i ran with lance and uh had a good race and and you know it was just an awesome experience but we shared that so that's that's dwight shoe i just wanted to tell the backstory there again archery hall of famer one of the there's not a person in this industry which just is rare this is rare you know this is a cutthroat ego driven industry but i don't think there's a person in this industry that would say a thing about Dwight Shoe. So, I mean, that should, that should tell you all you need to know. He's, uh, yeah, best guy you've ever, ever going to, I mean, he died now, but he was the best guy

you'd ever meet and helpful. Help me with writing. Um, told me I needed to go back to school and become a better writer and I didn't. But, uh, yeah. So anyway, other than that, that loved Dwight no I loved that he was right I probably should have went back to school but I was too busy bo-hunting so there was a time though before I get or I mean I'm going to get into this right now 2006 was I mean there's a long time ago obviously and I got to give a shout out too so I knew I could not find I have so many magazines here this is you see all these books you see all these. It's like, yeah, I mean, if there could be a mad scientist on bow hunting, not so much bow hunting, just not the technical stuff. I mean, I know my bow, but I'm more

the adventure. It's the adventure. It's like what it does to a person's life living out there in the mountains. That's what I care about. The bow, yes, I love archery, but it's more about the adventure. So I'm not like this gear tech freak on archery. I'm not. I'm not like this gear tech freak on archery. I'm more of I love the adventures of these guys out there making a mark on history. And so could not find this article. I was like, All Points Bolton, I wanted to share with you guys because I remembered it, but it's been a while, 2006, right? I mean, that's some time ago.

So I reached out to Jill, Roy's wife. She's not a home for, she's with her daughter for the holidays. So she's not at home. She thought she had the magazine. Reached out to my buddy Shea Man, and he knows Dwight's daughter. So he ended up getting me a copy of this also. Shea, yeah, she's an awesome guy. Learned to bow hunt the backcountry.

He was filming me and tough and learning a lot. This was like when he's first starting off. But he was one of the first cameramen I had in the ego cap, him and then Nate Simmons. But, you know, just learn the hard way back there. And now he's killed Bulls with a recurve at a compound, just a stud. It's a pilot. Awesome guy. He reached out to Dwight's daughter, Emily, and got me this.

And then also Danny Ferris reached out to Kurt Wells, who is a current editor of Bowhunter. So the editing... Human being. Sorry. The editing lineage went M.R. James, Dwight Shears. than Kurt well. So it's been a lot of history there. But he got, Kurt went through his archives, pulled me out of copy and he said, he sent this to Danny, who then sent it to me. And he says, anniversary issue October, November 2006. And Kurt writes in this text here, he writes,

I bought Roy and his son breakfast and Kodiak one morning, tried to talk him into writing an article for us, but he didn't show much enthusiasm for it, as anyone who knows I might expect, this works for Cam. So thank you, Danny, thank you, Chey, thank you Kurt Wells, thank you Emily, thanks Jill, I know you had made it happen. And then also Jason Bouserman was going to make it happen. He's there in Colorado as well. But, you know, Kurt mentioned he wanted to get Roy to write an article. And, you know, there's a, there's a quote also about Paul Schaefer that Montana Bowhunter has talked about the beginning of this episode. He's, uh, people try to get him to write articles because he killed like these incredible animals also and all he would say is not much of a writer

and that was it these guys they don't necessarily don't care about the attention or seeing their name in print like you know as a writer there's nothing like seeing your byline and seeing your story told and shared with others that's that's what writers i mean it's a big part of being a writer but if you don't care about that it doesn't matter you're just living And that's how Paul Schaefer and then also Roy was. But I made sure Roy's story got out. In this one here, this is called The Deliverance. This is by Dwight Shue.

This is on that hunt in 2006 with Roy Roth. And as I said, Dwight, been around, done it all. You know, he didn't kill the Super Slam. I think he killed 22 of the 29 animals. But that's a hell of an accomplishment. Hall of Famer, what do you say? So the deliverance and the subtitle here to this article is the Wiles of Alaska, God, let me start this over.

The Wiles of Alaska might very well teach a bowhunter more about life than about hunting. So that was his byline or his subtitle there. The article starts off. I was worried. Never before had I met Roy Roth, and now he and I would spend two weeks of alone together on Codiac Island. It all started with my friend Bob Ameen. I call Bob the Sitka King because he is a fanatic for hunting Sitka blacktailed deer. That's the deer that lives on Codiac Island. It's a subspecies of the Columbia Blacktail. And they're awesome animals.

So Dwight continues, he has probably killed as many Sitka deer as any bohunter alive and some of, and some of the biggest. When Bob invited me to hunt deer with him on Codiac Island to record a program for Bowhunter Magazine TV, I jumped at the chance. Bob's Alaska friend, Roy Roth, would round out the party. I was excited. However, when I arrived in Anchorage, Bob delivered bad news. He had an infection in his leg, and his doctors forbade him to go hunting. He might die. That meant Roy and I would go alone. I had never met Roy, and our first meeting concerned me. Roy looked like a couch potato. Could he pull his own weight? I was worried. So, Roy is, he's just a beast.

It's like, but people have these preconceived notions on what a beast looks like. If you see Roy, you might not know he is a beast, but we'll see what if Dwight's tune change here. So, it looked like a couch potato, could he pulls on weight. I was worried. Dwight continues.

The article continues. Roy is the best bow hunter I know, Bob assured me. He's also the toughest. guy I've ever met and he's a great guy in camp you'll see well whatever the case we're going to kodiak roy and i and we had bob to thank for making it possible after all would be using all his equipment and eating his food a week before he had shipped his tent rubber raft elbow motor food in two weeks for two weeks and all other needed gear to kodiak and sure he had outfitted our expedition when roy and i arrived in kodiak all would you do is pick up bob's gear loaded onto roland rousse's

sea hawk air beaver and fly to a remote lake as a plane disappeared in the blue sky eye and glaring sun, we began setting up Bob's bomb-proof tin and had to take off our shirts to cool down. Man, it's hot out here, I remarked. Enjoy it. Roy himself, a veteran of Codiac Island, said cheerfully, it'll change. When we began hunting on October 28th, we could see we had hit things right. Severe weather in 1999 had killed an estimated 90% of all deer on the island.

Since then, the winters had been mild. And by the fall of 2005, the deer were once again thriving. Right off, we were seeing 20 to 30 bucks a day. The south half a Codiac Island has no trees, so we hunted by glassing and then stalking. In some places with broken terrain, getting close to the deer was easy, but when they weren't in the tall grass and alderbrush, we often could not sneak within bow range. That's when we employed a secret weapon, a decoy hat. So, yeah, Roy loved these hats.

Bob, I don't know if Roy got them from Bob, I think so, but they're basically a hat and they have deer ears on them. They look like a, I kind of a deer head. And actually, Danny Ferris, who I mentioned, he has a company called Ultimate Decoy, and it does the same thing. But these are very effective on these Sitka Bucks that are on Codiac Island. I cannot say enough good things about the guys over a Montana knife company. I've been using their knives in the mountains for the past three years, and I've been nothing but impressed. They're an American company.

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You can find ketone IQ at your local sprouts or online at HVMN.com. Use code cam, CAM, for 20% off your first order. So they were using the deer hats. So they employed their secret weapon, as they said. Over the next few days, I also learned the truth about. couch potatoes. This is Dwight writing again. The southern half of Codiac Island comprise of small mountain ranges three to five miles long separated by mile wide valleys of muskid creeks and ponds. Deer concentrated in the mountain ranges but during the rut the bucks crossed the valleys

looking for doze. Roy reminded me of those roaming bucks. He had to go to the next mountain range just to see what was there. Whether we killed a deer in a range didn't matter. Once we hunted there, we had to go to the next range over until we were walking five miles just to start hunting. Roy, I pleaded, I can't pack a buck that far. Don't worry about it, he insisted. I'll pack the deer. And he did. Over the next three days, we killed three more bucks, and Roy packed them all, plowing across

a tundra like a bulldozer, walking faster with 70 pounds of deer meat on his back than I could walk with no weight. On November 1st, Roy suggested we look further afield, so we inflated Bob's raft and headed up a creek. In many places, the creek was too shallow for the moment. motor. To me, that was a problem. To Roy was a minor inconvenience. He simply jumped in with the chest waiters and dragged the raft upstream. Five miles up, we placed two small backpacking tents on the gravel bar where the creek swung close to a fresh mountain range. After the strenuous march up the creek, I assumed we would rest, but Roy didn't think of that. He simply changed into his hiking boots and headed up to the nearest ridge. As I trailed along trying to keep up, he

had killed a red fox and a good-sized buck. So just visualize that. So, just visualize that. So, Roy had drugged this boat up through these shallow waters, cross gravel bars for five miles. They get there. They set up camp. And then Roy takes up off up the ridge. Big Roy, mind you. This is the couch potato that Dwight labeled him as originally. Roy takes off up the ridge.

And Dwight's trying to keep up. And while he's trying to keep up, Roy killed a fox and a buck with his bow. I mean, how insane is that? So, again, this isn't me telling these stories about Roy. This is, and this isn't somebody who makes stuff up. This is Dwight Shoe, who's been around forever. And one of the most authentic, talented writers there is, who just tells it like it is. So that's what he's saying about Roy.

The next day, this is Dwight again, the next day I shot a buck at 15 yards as he trailed a doe. After dressing the deer and bagging the meat, we continued on up the canyon and saw a buck cruising down the hillside, obviously looking for doughs. When we spotted our dough hats, he came to check us out, and Roy made that a fatal mistake. With two deer on the ground, we called it a day and packed meat back to camp, but Roy wanted to carry both deer. I would not let him, at least this once. Approaching camp, we saw a bear down by the creek 200 yards away. We stayed high on the hillside, talking and whistling to make sure he knew we were there,

and stayed away. However, as we topped a hill, we saw his enormous head coming right up our trail 20 yards away. Apparently he had come up to investigate all the noise. As I fumbled for my bear spray, Roy yelled and waved his arms. The bear ran away. My heart was racing, but Roy simply seemed amused by the event. So this is, I mean, you know, I've been with Roy. I killed a grizzly or a brown bear. Here's Roy's temperament. It's like always, always in control, always just as calm as can be. And it's, yeah, we love the adventure. We love doing it worked out, but all these challenges and all these intense moments that happen, they're just part of the hunt. It's like, I'm not getting worked up about it. When I,

there's a YouTube video, John Rivett went up with me to Alaska, with me and Roy, we're going to hunt Brown Bear. And I said, hey, John, would you want to come up and, you know, film? And it's going to be great to hang out with Roy. And I think you'd really like him. So we go up there. I do the stock on this brown bear and this is again on youtube bear gets up 40 yards frontal and i hit him pretty much perfect maybe an inch to the right and uh bear runs off you know obviously fatally wounded i go back roy's back probably 150 yards back just kind of watching let me do the stock had stock in this creek up through this tall grass get up the bear sat up he's right on the edge of the creek and then I shot him. And when all that happened, a sow brown bear, a giant one,

over 20 years old is what we were estimating. She got all worked up by the story, or I mean by the noise, arrow hitting, the bear making out a kind of a beller. Maybe she smelled the blood from the blood coming out after the arrow went, blew through. And she came over. She attacked that bear. My bear died and she was attacking it. So we were yelling at her. She ended up, her focus came off that, my brown bear that I killed and shifted to us. Roy had a rifle and he shot out there because I was saying, I go, God, she's tearing on my bear. I said, shoot out there. Get her off that bear. And so he shot a couple times out there. And finally the bear, you know, snapped out of attacking the bear I killed. But her focus came to us then and then we're there kind of in the knee high grass not a tree anywhere and she sees us about 130 yards away and just comes sprinting so roy standing there and i'm standing there and that's when i knock up another arrow uh john was he had the ammo in his pack so we said go you know roy had shot twice already i don't know how many shots he had left probably just

one uh and he said as this bear was charging in he said if if she crossed crosses the creek, I'm going to have to kill her. I said, yeah. So she kept coming, splash to the creek all the way up to our side and stops maybe 20 yards away. And it was like stood up and was like huffing, just looking, you know, crazy. I don't know what was going on in her head, but, you know, they normally brown bear aren't quite as crazy as grizzlies. But man, the situation with that dead boar, she had three full-grown cubs, which means, you know, the cubs can survive on their own. They were probably 300 pounds,

but they hang out with their mom, even past when they're, they don't need her to survive, but it's just kind of sometimes full grown cubs hang out after their yearlings. And so she had three full grown cubs there. So it might have been the situation with the bore and the blood and the yelling and the shooting and the cubs.

All of it made her crazy. So she comes over, stands up, huffing and puffing and puffing, popping, doing everything she's doing. And Roy still, we were like yelling at her. Hey, get out of here. Get out of here. Roy, you know, didn't want to shoot.

You know, we got had a bear killed already. We didn't want to kill another bear. And so he said he was going to shoot if she crossed the creek, which she did and he didn't shoot. But then she came up to on our side of the bank there. And she's, you know, maybe 20 yards away and stood up. We still, he never shot. I had an arrow knocked.

It was, you know, whatever. You're just trying to figure out what you're going to do. And then we're yelling the bear drops down and charges. So Roy, you know, boom, shoots, drops her at, I don't know, from here to this camera. It might be, I don't know, 10 feet away. Maybe not even that. And then no excitement. Just like I think I mentioned this in the book, but I was just,

We were both upset. We were both like, I'm like, fuck, did not want to kill another bear. And he's like, he's like, dude, I had to. But it was like, it was just, that's just what happened. So that's Roy's demeanor. So he's had a lot of close calls with bear. If you've been in Alaska and you've been doing all the hunts that he did, you're going to run into grizzly and brown bear.

Plus he killed a lot of them, you know, in hunting. And it's just, it's just the nature of the, the business up there, essentially. But so when Dwight writes that Roy seemed essentially amused by that bear, yeah, he said Dwight wrote, the bear ran away, my heart was racing, but Roy simply seemed amused by the event. That doesn't surprise me. I've seen Roy in a lot of intense situations, always, always in control and unflappable.

Rare quality, very rare quality. Bear get a lot of people worked up. But yeah, he was one of a kind in that regard. So this article continues, Dwight's article that was in the 2006 issue here of Bow Hunter called Deliverance. Is that what it was? Yeah, the deliverance. On November 5th, as Roy had predicted, the weather changed with the wind hitting 50 to 70 miles per hour, snow flying, the river freezing along the edges. we returned to base camp and the dependable shelter of our big tent.

November 9th was our last scheduled day of hunting. Roy had one tag left, but things were not looking favorable. A full-fledged blizzard had set in with winds of 50 miles per hour and heavy snow. At times, visibility is less than 30 feet. The reasonable response would have been to stay in the tent to ride out the storm. However, Roy had a deer tag left and he was going hunting. We plunged to the deepening snow, checking protected draws where deer might seek shelter. For an hour we did not see a deer, but then through the curtain of blowing snow, we made out a buck battered with the dough.

Crawling through the snow, we got within 40 yards, but Roy did not have a clear shot and we could get no closer. For two hours, we crouched in the roaring wind, snow hitting us like bullets, waiting for the buck to move. My goal was to shoot video, but in reality I wanted to run to the tent. I was freezing. Roy wouldn't budge. He was going to kill that deer. He kept his hands bare so he could shoot as he faced the wind, keeping vigil, ice-coated his face. Let me know if you're going to shoot. I shouted over the roar as I hunkered back to the wind to protect my hands and face. Roy stayed poised to shoot.

At last, the buck stood giving Roy a shot. As Roy's arrow disappeared in the blowing snow, the hard hit buck sprinted. Down the hill, sending plumes of snow flying with each bound. Knowing the trail would seem disappear, we followed immediately and found the buck floating in a creek. He had tried to jump the creek, but it died mid-flight and landed in the water. So, yeah, that's Roy in crazy weather. other conditions also. So that just gives you the idea of, I don't even know. I mean, to say tough, it's not tough. It's more than tough. I don't know what it is. But it's like as Joe,

that little clip I played of Joe, it's like the special breed of men. Not many people are going to go out in those conditions. And then if out there, not many people are going to be able to get a buck killed. But there's a special breed of men. Who will? That's Roy. That's why we tell these stories. That's Bart Shiler. That's Paul Schaefer. That's so many legends out there that people don't know about. It's my goal to share these stories about these guys who just impacted my life. So November 10th, this is Dwight picking up in his article again. November 10th was our pick up date. The plan was simple. We had motor 15 miles downstream to a point where Roland could land his plane to pick us up. And I've done this hunt too. Roy and I went here. How you get in there is they'll land on,

it's a little river, but those float planes can land on, if it's deep enough, they can land on a little river, it's kind of more like a creek. And then we'd camp right there by the side. But to be able to land there, they have to have water.

It can't be frozen, right? The pontoons have to be able to hit the water and slow down and do everything they do. If the river's frozen, not going to happen. So then when you get in there by that or you need to float down the river to to a pick a spot to get out, the river cannot be frozen, right? So that's the challenge these guys had at this time. Mercifully, the wind has subsided, but the snow is now two feet deep and slabs of slush floated down the icy river. The big question was, how do we fit our 1,200 pounds of gear

weighted on the Seahawks scale before the flight out, plus eight deer into a 12-foot raft. So they killed eight bucks. That's a lot of deer. Into a 12-foot raft. With his usual finesse, Roy attacked the project. By the time he'd constructed a floating mountain, only one question remained. Where am I supposed to sit? I said. Does climb up top, Roy laughed. Those deer racks will hold you down. Despite the precarious load, we related as we were headed downstream. We had great hunting and we'd be home within a day. Life was good. When we hit the first ice jam, We tried to break through with the raft, but that proved impossible.

The ice was too thick and extended downstream for at least a mile. Fortunately, we had a satellite phone enabling us to call Seahawk Air. That afternoon, Roland flew out to survey the situation. His report, he could see no place to land near us. We'd have to reach an original pickup point. We had two miles of ice to portage. He would drop us some food the next day. Good luck.

We set up camp at the head of the ice, and for the next two days, packed gear in We set up camp at the head of the ice and for the next two days packed a gear and deer Packing one deer at a time 60 to 70 pounds I felt heroic. Roy packed two deer at a time and as if that weren't enough he tied a plastic tarp to his pack frame and dragged another 100 pounds of gear over the snow. On easier trips he packed the 100 pound raft and the 15 horse outboard. With all of our gear finally at open water we again launched a floating mountain. We were jubilant.

A mile downstream, we hit more ice. When Roland had mentioned two miles of ice, we thought he meant the ice we'd just portaged around. We were wrong. We spent several hours scouting on foot and learned the next open water, according to my GPS, was exactly 1.8 miles straight line from the raft. Could we do another portage twice as long as a first? I wasn't sure. We have no choice, Roy said confidently.

Let's get after it. Once again, we set up camp, and for the next three days, eight hours a day. Now listen, eight hours a day is pretty much all the daylight you have on Kodiak in this time of year. Because it gets light like at maybe eight in the morning and dark at four in the afternoon. So when he said they were working eight hours, that was basically the whole daylight. And then it was dark. The nights are super long on Kodiak when you're getting into November. Yeah, 16 hours a night, eight hours a day, plus a brown bear walking around.

So yeah, that's why they had eight hours to get it down. So eight hours a day, we packed gear and deer. Laughing and joking, Roy acted as if we were having fun. The only serious threat seemed to be the smell in our tent. It was bad. Roy blamed me. I blamed him. We did nothing about it.

On the night of November 16th, one week behind schedule, we had everything but the tent and sleeping bags down in open water. One last load the morning of November 17th, and we were home free. So that's Roy and Dwight's hunt. They were, they were going to hunt, I think, for about 12 days. They got stuck. They were there for 20-some days on Codiac Island. And it's, I don't know, what an adventure, right?

And sadly, both these men are gone now. Dwight died of cancer a few years ago. Roy obviously fell sheep hunting in 2015. Both legends, both gone. but their stories live on. And I'll just wrap this up with this last paragraph here of Dwight's article. In Alaska, nothing inspires joy and triumph like the site of a long-awaited bush plane. And Roy and I felt those emotions as Roland taxi to the bank of the river to pick us up.

Finally, deliverance. Despite our trials, we felt no regrets. After all, we'd had great deer hunting for rutting Sitka bucks, and we'd enjoyed endless fun with the decoy hats. Yes, we had our trials. but they simply had taught us a lot about ourselves. We had built a great relationship, and our three weeks in the field proved Baba Means assessment of Roy Roth absolutely accurate.

Above all, the whole experience had reinforced in me the immutable truth that you cannot judge a couch potato by his skin. So that was just a mistake people would make about Roy until they spent one minute around him. Yeah, it's, yeah. that's a i i just like telling the the backstory of royds so people who again from me it's it's one thing from legends like dwight babamine frank noska it's another um and i'll just wrap up this little this episode here about a dip i'll just call it a different breed of men um this is an article i wrote in bow hunter this is back in uh september of 2010 and here on the on the top of the front cover there says cam haines is a wannabe pride yourself in being an intimidate imitator page 12 so this is when

i first started my column for bow hunter and i wrote this article and it's called wannabe when you imitate someone worthy of imitation you can pride yourself on being an imitator and uh it was me basically telling roy stories about why he was he was he was was who I wanted to live up to. And it's like, it's a great picture of me and Roy on my doll sheep hunt. I killed my only doll sheep on Pioneer Peak there, which is the hunt Roy was on when he fell. But we had a great one, great trip there, got it done. Mudwater is something I've been using daily since I started the podcast. It's supposed to be an alternative to coffee, but actually add it to mine for some extra health benefits. It's got four functional mushrooms. It's got four functional

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Today, you get $20 off when you subscribe at mudwater.com slash cam. You also get a free frother and a sample of their delicious coconut creamer. So go to mudwater.com slash cam to get $20 off your subscription and your free frother. That's mudwater.com slash cam. In this article here called The Wanna Be, I mentioned Roy's toughness and and I said here back in the early 90s Roy and I wanted to hunt the backcountry but we couldn't afford to hire horsepackers. Thankfully his dad decided to buy some llamas which he trained to haul our gear.

During one scouting trip deep in the Oregon's three sisters wilderness with the llamas, Roy was hitting some dinner on a single burner propane stove using a pot with a handle that would hang down on the bottom side of the pot essentially right in the propane flame. We're boiling water to make a little mac and cheese. So once it came to boil Roy gingerly lifted the handle and grabbed it to lift the pot off the burner. Well, that handle was branding iron hot, and when Roy began to lift the pot,

the handle melted into his skin on his fingers. He couldn't throw it down because boiling water is a precious commodity in the backcountry, so he set it down as fast as possible while exclaiming too many Christmas that is hot. As a side note, in close to 30 years of knowing Roy, I've never heard him utter even one cuss word. So that was another fun fact.

Roy just didn't cuss, but he was funny as hell somehow. Anyway, he had a deep burn seemingly to the bone on the backside of his second knuckle where the pot handle had rested as he lifted the pot. We stayed in the wilderness for a couple days after that and he never mentioned it again. He just wrapped his fingers in duct tape and kept on keeping on. Approach, no mountain is too high or challenged too great for Roy to overcome. Back in 2001, Roy and a couple of buddies and I were hunting spring bears on Prince of Wales Island. To hunt the way we do there, we need a decent-sized aluminum boat and with an outboard capable of handling. big rough open water. Early on in our hunt, the outboard went gunny bag. We had a tiny inflatable

raft and eight footer, I think, with an equally tiny eight horse outboard. We'd hauled it along just for emergencies. Well, Roy knew the success of our hunt was in jeopardy. Without the big skiff and the 40 horsepower motor, the four of us simply could not cover enough country. Roy decided to do something. Just as dark was falling, he hopped into the inflatable raft, fired up the little outboard and took off towards the closest town 15 or so miles away. Mind you, most of his travel would be in the dark. Even worse, the front of the lightweight raft constantly tried to lift off the water, seemingly ready to blow over. So for about three hours, Roy had to operate the throttle while leaning toward the front to keep the raft from blowing over backwards. He got to

town late, slept for a while, and somehow, someway found an outfit that would fly a new motor out from Catchycan on a Sunday, no less. The next day, the other guys and I hung around camp shooting our bows on wondering what was going on when we spotted a fishing boat in the distance. As he got closer and closer, we could see Roy on board. He had hitched a ride with a commercial boat operator, new outboard motor and all. We were in business again and we all ended up killing big, pop and young black bears, which never would have happened without Roy's over-the-top effort. Yeah, so that's that's just a couple stories about Roy.

It's a and he was he was tough to earn respect from for sure. I also remember another story. He took he took a guy here into the Three Sisters Wilderness and just kind of kind of on a scouting trip. I think he might have taken the llamas. I think scouting for elk, but might have taken the llamas just to get him, you know, you got to work those llamas to get him in shape. And they went in there for a couple days, came back. out and I said, hey, how did the trip go? How'd that guy do? And Roy's like, uh, it's kind of a whiner.

And I said, oh, yeah. I said, what about? He's like, oh, well, it, we didn't set up the tents really good. And then it started, a big storm came in and started pouring. And so, you know, our sleeping bags were laying in water and, uh, we were just soaked all night. And yeah, I said, So he's whining about being soaked all night in a West sleeping bag. But to Roy, that was like, what are you going to do? You don't whine about it. It's just the way it is. So it was just because he had, yeah, his own measure of toughness for sure,

really tough to live up to. I'm going to wrap up this other different breed of man podcast. with this last little reading here in this article wannabe from my column and bowhunter. I write, Roy doesn't bow hunt for glory. Through the years and all the bohunting success he's experienced, Roy has never once sent in a picture to a magazine for publication, never once written an article telling him of his experiences, never once tried to reach out to a TV network about putting together a show.

And as crazy as it sounds in this day and age, Roy has never once made a hunting forum or Facebook posting. emails he'd sent a handful in his life if i hadn't written a few articles about roy and his ex points his bowhunting accomplishments would largely be unknown all that being said roy does bow hunt for something other than punching tags and filling freezers in an article called us not about the bow which i wrote a few years ago i asked roy how he's so successful in some of the toughest bow hunts in the world not a hundred percent sure what my key is roy answered i think it's probably a lot of little things above all i'm always i always stay positive a few random thoughts

I think some of my approach, Roy continued. I try to learn from people who know more than me, and I try to make my own luck by doing the extra stuff. Above all, I believe God bless me with certain gifts to use for his glory. Personally, despite the somewhat negative connotation of the urban dictionary definition, I don't think being a wannabe is necessarily a bad thing. The way I see it, looking up to people who stand for the right things, do things the right way, and stay true to themselves,

and is nothing but positive. I don't have any problem being a Roy Roth wannabe. How about you? Do you know someone who makes you a bohunting wannabe? I hope so. So that's how I ended that up. That is another example of why it's so important that we share these stories.

We share these stories of incredible men. We celebrate what it means to be tough. We hopefully, hopefully, through peer pressure or through, I don't know what, dissuade the hating of the hunting industry. You've had more success than I have. I don't like that. That makes me feel bad.

I don't want you to be successful. I mean, what are we doing? What are we doing? So let's keep setting the standard. let's keep pushing the envelope. Let's make stories. Let's make our own stories that people might read in the future. That people might say, God, did you hear about this guy? Listen to this story. Just like I'm doing here. We're doing it now. Get out there. Hunt. Shoot your bow. Become immersed in this, the whole process of archery, the respect for the game, the love of the country, the embracing the challenge. and the unforgiving nature of the mountains that we love.

Embrace it. It gets tough. Yes, that makes a great story. That's a great opportunity to overcome, to believe in yourself, to get it done. And then when you get out here in the regular world, it's a cakewalk. It's a cakewalk, baby.

You've lived through the toughest conditions of the mountains hunting the most intense animals, and you've come home to share your story. That's beautiful. That's living. That's living life at its fullest. That should be all our goals. Thanks for listening.

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