Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 059 - Eddie Gallagher

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Join us for a discussion with Eddie Gallagher, retired Navy SEAL and co-founder of The Pipe Hitter Foundation who spent 20 years in the military, deploying nine times to Africa, Afghanistan and Iraq. In 2018 he was wrongfully accused of war crimes and eventually acquitted of murder, retained his rank, and kept his Navy SEAL Trident.  Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Connect with Eddie: https://www.instagram.com/eddie_gallagher  Thank you to our sponsors: Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/  MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first Order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv  Go Ruck: https://www.goruck.com use code CAM for 10% off  Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Accusations of War Crimes 0:11:59 Eddie’s Book: The Man in the Arena 0:15:50 Mind Games to Get Eddie to Snap 0:18:38 Prosecution of Eddie’s Case & A Devious Corporate Ladder 0:27:33 Trump on Pardoning Eddie 0:29:27 Living the Dream: Eddie’s Career in the Military 0:31:33 Becoming a Leader Through Experience 0:34:48 Attributes of a Leader Eddie Avoided 0:38:51 A Family in the Military  0:42:55 Eddie’s Best Memories From the Military 0:46:32 Eddie’s Deployments 0:47:20 Joining the Marine Core 0:49:35 A Drive for Success 0:52:19 Seal Selection & BUD/S 0:57:50 Advice for the Men Who Want to Be A Seal 01:02:06 Imposter Syndrome 01:03:29 Lowering the Standard for Seals 01:08:16 The Advantage of Creating More Seals 01:09:16 Dan Crenshaw 01:16:29 The Story of John: Finding God in Prison 01:25:13 FAFO 01:31:27 Eddie’s Legal Team 01:38:02 Recognizing the Rules of Engagement 01:41:41 Eddie’s Goals 01:43:41 Comedy: The Mothership 01:46:49 Help in the Veteran Community 01:50:36 Eddie’s Patreon & Podcast 01:53:38 Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is the Keep Hammering Collective. I'm here with Eddie Gallagher.

Man, it's an honor to have you here, Eddie. It's an honor to be here. I can say, you know, I'm not a big, I don't know. I don't fan boy or whatever of most people. But coming out here and I already knew about you, you know, and I've heard you on Rogan and everything. And then I got your book and I'm about halfway through. And I can tell you, man, like, it is an honor to be here talking to you, man. Your whole approach to life and mindset, it's very similar, I think, to mine.

I mean, I'd like to think so. But it's an honor being here. It's been an awesome day so far. Well, thank you. We had a great run this morning. Yeah. You got in last night all the way from Florida, so it's a long trip out to Oregon. But this morning I picked you up and we got in some good miles.

How was that run? Phenomenal. I mean, it's a little bit different than running in Florida. But I do, I appreciate those hills. You know, it adds a little spice to it. Yeah. Yeah, the legs were feeling it near the top and, you know, the altitude. But I appreciate all of it, man.

There's no better way to start off the day. Oh, no, it was fun. Got it in about 10 miles, got a good summon in, then went to, like, I think the best breakfast place here in town. It was good. Original pancake house. And good bacon, good coffee. It's a picture's a pre-fontein up there.

So it's like, you can't beat it. No complaints, man. It's, yeah, it's been a perfect day so far. I appreciate it. Well, this is, you know, when I first heard of you, it was, you know, years ago now, but probably seemed like yesterday, to you, but I remember seeing a picture of you and your uniform, you were a seal, you started off as a

Marine, but then became a seal and you were in handcuffs. It's like, and I was just like, what the heck is going on? This is, seemed like opposite ends of the spectrum, you know, a hero, we look up to the people that, that protect our country and serve our country in the military, and then to see in handcuffs, So I was like, that it was crazy. So I started doing some more research on it. And I was just like, you know, I was on the free Eddie side, to be honest. That, you know, that's still on or am ass. So tell me about that.

Well, first off, you know, that's another, this is another crazy thing. And I know we talked about this earlier, but I do want to like mention it. beginning of this year, you know, started 2024 off and I was working at the range. And I just felt like, I don't know, for some reason I start out this year and I was like, dude, this year is going to be huge. Like I just had this feeling like it's going to be an awesome year. And I was coming back from work and my buddy called me and who's still in the teams. And he was like, hey, you know, I just got done reading Cam Haynes book.

And I was like, oh, yeah, I've heard of him, heard of him, heard him on the podcast. And he's like, dude, I read it. And he reminds me of you. And I was like, oh, you know, okay. Which was, you know, a compliment after reading your book or halfway through. But literally the next day I get a call to come out and be on this podcast. And what it also was crazy is I have a Instagram post saved on my phone made by you. And I saw it right when all that whole ordeal was pretty much over.

And I just got out. And you were expressing what you thought about the case. which was few and far between then. I had a lot of negative heat coming my way at that time. And so I saved a lot of the posts. And I didn't even know who you were at the time, man. So, I mean, to be out here, be able to talk to you, you know, it's all on God's timing. And, you know, I'm a big believer.

And I think that things happen for a reason, just like that whole ordeal happened for a reason. You know, and there's a lot of complexity that goes into the story. I mean, you know, that's why I wrote the book so people could read it and see exactly what my family went through, just fighting the government, the media, and all that. And what I tell people is, you know, God doesn't put anything on your plate that you can't handle. And when you go through events like this and they can be traumatic, if you can make it through it, then it's on you to start doing that for others, right? And that's why we started the nonprofit, the Pipeater Foundation. But, you know, I look back. It's like five years old now when that happened.

I obviously do a lot of reflection from time to time. And just because we're ever evolving and to see where we're at now, where my family's at now, that whole event, as traumatic as it was, was a blessing. You know, we're able to help others now by going through all that stuff. that are going to the same issues. And, you know, I'm not going to get into the whole story of what happened because that would take hours. But, you know, the premise behind it is, you know, I was on my final deployment in 2017 to

Missoule, Iraq. We were tasked with clearing out ISIS out of Missoule. And it was a very busy and hectic deployment, but it was very successful one. But unfortunately, during that time, I had some guys in my political. tune that didn't have the same thoughts and feelings of what we were doing. They weren't agreeing with the mission. Just stuff that you, they were saying stuff that you would never hear from, you would think you would ever hear from the seal.

Like, hey, I don't agree with this mission. We're working too much. Blah, blah, blah. So they decided to sort of blame me for all these things because I was the tack lead. And what happened is we got done with that deployment and they started a rumor bill about me pretty much saying, you know, I was too aggressive, too dangerous. And then that went on to, I was a thief.

I was stealing from them. And then that escalated to I was committing war crimes out there. And I think, you know, it blew up from there. Once I was accused of committing war crimes, the way the system works in the military, which is it falls under the UCMJ, uniform code of military justice. If you are accused of something,

you are guilty and you have to prove yourself innocent. And I'm not the only case that's like that. So from there, once I got accused, it was just a shitstorm. You know, my house got raided by NCIS. My kids were drug out at gunpoint. my wife or me were not home at the time. At gunpoint?

Yep. Whoa. And from there, the harassment from the government and NCIS just escalated until they threw me in prison. And I was in military prison for about nine months. Didn't have any control over anything. I couldn't defend myself. All my rights were taken from me. So that's when my wife.

who was probably the ultimate warrior in my eyes picked up the mantle and started fighting back. She started an organic Instagram campaign that got a lot, a lot of eyes. She was putting the truth out about what was going on. And she got the attention of the president at the time, which was President Trump. And he eventually tweeted to let me out of prison. And I want to say, he wasn't saying I was guilty or not guilty. He was just saying, let this guy out so he can properly defend himself. He's earned that much.

Because you couldn't even correspond really with your attorney or maybe, you know, like a normal, even like a normal, what would that? I mean, normally you'd be able to have meetings with your attorney and come up with, you know, here's what happened. But you weren't even afforded that right. Yeah, it was the times that I got to see them. It was very few and far between. Every phone call that you have in the brig, which is what they call military prison, is recorded.

So anything you say in that phone call is going to be used against just so you really couldn't have the type of conversations with your legal team that you should be having. So it was a very difficult time. You know, it's crazy. Yeah, to think back on it now. That's just how like we were able to get through all that. But, yeah, when I was in prison, I wasn't afforded any medical visits or. And I had, you know, the same issues as anybody else that had served 20 years, you know, back pain, shoulder pain, all that. They just denied anything, really.

And then if you even spoke up or said anything about it, you were going to get thrown into solitary. So you were just, you just had to sort of sit there, grin and bear it and take it, you know. And I can say, you know, through all that, that's how I got closer to God as well. Sometimes it takes everything being taken from you for that. happen. So again, like I say, looking back, you know, it was a blessing, even though it was a rough road. But in the end, you know, we ended up going to trial. I did go to trial. I was not pardoned. I know that's a big, big rumor that the media put out there. I went to trial. I faced my accusers. People would say, oh, Trump pardoned. That was the rumor that even, I even heard that.

Yeah. I mean, to the day. And that wasn't the case. The case is that it went to trial. You found not guilty. Yeah. And just due diligence, you're present in your case. They, they tried to prosecute, you defended. The result was not guilty other than taking the picture. Taking the picture, correct. Which was like, and that's the one charge we never denied. It was like, yes, obviously, I did do that. I saw that in the book. You said, hey, yeah, I made a mistake. Shouldn't have done that. But yeah, I did it. Yeah. And yeah, so I got found, you know, the jury found me innocent of everything except for taking the picture except uh it's once the government and the military and the media spend so much time trying to make you look guilty and it does not go their way their way uh the

prosecution doesn't stop there um so they they kept coming after me even after the trial uh they need they need a win yeah they're going to try and get their pound of flesh right no matter what um and so yeah i mean it was it was a long road even after the trial uh just trying to get out of the military because they were trying to take my retirement. So like I would, it's like I had never served 20 years. So again, and I think this is where people might get confused and think Trump was like, you know, pardon me or whatever. What he did is he's like, no, you are not going to take away his retirement.

You are going to let him retire with everything he has earned. And that's what I was able to do with his intervention. And I want to add something. And, you know, I said my wife was, you know, fighting. She's not the only one. It was my brother as well. He literally dropped everything and got in the fight with my wife. So he was knocking down doors at Congress every day,

trying to get people to pay attention, which was a hard fight as well. Yeah, definitely. I mean, well, you captured that difficult journey so well in your book. The book is called The Man in the Arena, which is so fitting. If you think back of that Roosevelt quote, you know, it's not the critic who counts. It's the man in the arena. Because, and I mean, this is perfect because you were the one, you were on deployment. Was it nine times?

Nine deployments? Yeah. I mean, you were a warfighter fighting for a country, killing bad guys. And you were in the arena. Everybody else now from the outside, from media to politicians to whatever, they want to weigh in. and cast judgment. And it's like, armchair quarterback. Yeah.

So it's just a perfect title to your book and your journey. But it's an amazing book. I mean, I think I just wanna, there's one part that I think it's stood out to me. I'll just read it from here. You know, also I wanted to mention, they throw out the word war crimes. I mean, that gets,

It's everybody's attention. Yeah. I mean, I don't care who you are. Somebody says war crimes, it's just like another level, right? Well, yeah, because I think when people think of war crimes or war criminal, I mean, it's like Adolf Hitler comes to mind, like these big names who, you know. Diabolical type of people. And it's like, God.

So to have that attached or even associated with your name at all, it's like, man, that's not great. Yeah. It's not a good look. No, that's the game. The media is so good at that. They are. They know what words to put out. They know how to twist this story to get people to, you know, emotions involved.

They are some of the most clever, devious people I have seen. Yeah, for sure. The way they are able to spin words around and even when you talk to them and give them an honest statement, they can flip that around and make it whatever agenda that they want. Yeah. They need that sound bite. Yeah. But what I like this, it says, you know, when we talked about, you know, you took the photo or whatever, it says, was I perfect? Of course not. There are things I could have done differently on that deployment. War is a chaotic environment. It isn't black and white. We do a difficult job that involves taking lives. I killed. I killed. I had killed. I'd seen mistakes and resulted in innocence, injured and killed. War is ugly. We fight monsters and sometimes we have to take on some of those characteristics to defeat them. I've had children.

die in my arms. I've lost more friends than I can count. But you have to push those things aside to continue operating effectively. This last part, I think, is like when you talked about when they arrested you, you were going through having your brain checked out and things like that. And that's where this paragraph here says being in the teams is like riding on a freight train going 120 miles per hour. Everything you go through and see during your career gets put in the caboose. After you retire and the train comes to the screeching halt, everything's door than that caboose comes flying back at you. But while on the train, you don't think about it stopping nor do you want it to. And so you were going through these nine deployments, 20 years,

you know, being a warfighter, as you said yourself. And then you're getting out. You're there and you're just like, okay, let's take inventory of what I've been through, what my brain and body have been through. And you're trying to get that addressed. And then you get arrested. And it's just like, it seems I don't want to say unfair because life isn't fair but what a tough what a bitter pill to swallow at that time

yeah it's funny man during the time I wasn't really I don't think I had time to sit there and think like this is unfair or like I'm pet it was I was in fight mode like I was like okay this is happening

and then you know our normal response as an operator or just a person from the soft community is okay how am I going to be able to manage and control this situation how can I get through this so that was where my brain was at the time obviously looking back now you know after years yeah it was it was nuts but everything was done on purpose I mean even them coming to take me out of that brain clinic and they took me out on 9-11 of all days they chose that day because what I came to found out find out later on is they were trying to get me to snap.

Everything they did, I mean, from the moment that they raided my house, pulled my kids out at gunpoint, that was to try and get me to snap. Them coming in at a TBI clinic or the brain clinic, getting me on 9-11 of all days, was done on purpose. And then when I was locked up, they were literally having meetings with the guards telling them, mess with him, get him to snap this week. And so luckily I had a couple guards in there that were cool that let me know.

And they're like, hey, man, this is what's being put out to us, which is why you're constantly getting strip searched and, you know, your rack and cell tossed. And I was like, okay. And thank God that they told me that because then I knew I was like, okay, this is a game. And I'm not going to let them win. So I had to do a lot of praying and just having a stoic mindset, I guess,

of like, I'm not going to let you. you, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction, you know, of letting you defeat me mentally. And was the goal to have you snap to give credence to these rumors? Yes. To say, oh, see. Yeah, to point the finger and say, see, we told you. Because the bottom line is I had a very privileged and decent career up to that point. I mean, I, you know, I was lucky enough to be able to deploy to combat that many times.

that's what I wanted to do. And I had never been in trouble. Like there was none of these accusations or anything like this had come out before. So for the command to get people to believe, and believe me, the people in my community that I had worked with were like, this is completely opposite of what we all know of him.

And they knew it. They were like, this is bullshit. But they command and everybody else had to do what they could to try and persuade or, you know, everybody else. So that was definitely one of the tactics was, hey, get him to snap while he's in there so we can point the finger and like, see, he is crazy. Why did, you know, the guys that served under you that kind of brought these complaints to the surface, who was the, I can't remember his name now, but the head guy that was then corresponding with them, which he's not supposed to. and like,

court, uh, coordinating information and, kind of, I don't know, it was kind of like, uh, keeping the wheels going.

Do you remember that guy's name? The one of the, from one of the guys in my platoon. It seemed like who, is that's who they were communicating with. They, the prosecuting, prosecuting attorney.

Oh, well, yeah. So, I mean, that's a whole other realm. Like, yeah,

the prosecution and just all the, just deceit, corrupt stuff they were pulling the whole time but yes they there was the prosecution i mean the um nc i s agent is who you're talking oh okay joe warpinski yes that's the lead what why what did he have against you why was what was the point he didn't know me but he what he did know is that he would be able to make a name for himself if he could bag a navy seal and put him away for life um the guy was a very dangerous combination of ambition and incompetence um what you're you're you're You got to know about NCIS is they are pretty much the bottom of the barrel when it comes to, I guess, law enforcement.

So like a lot of those guys try out for the FBI, CIA, and they're like, don't cut the muster. So the only other option is NCIS. So they're not the brightest, but they are trying to make a name for themselves. I see. So that is. That would be a good, good trophy for him to take you out. Yeah. And like, and basically, and I've heard, I think I've heard you say this before,

they're trying to kill you essentially because if you get life in prison without parole, your life's pretty much over. So it was like they ended your life. Yeah. That was their goal. That was the only way I could look at it. Yeah. It's like you are trying to take me out for life.

You're trying to take me away from my kids and my family for the rest of my life. So yeah, I mean, there really is no other way. look at it, I guess. No. And he's just trying to, you know, make a name for himself, get some attention, climb the ladder, whatever that corporate type ladder or structure is. I don't know.

It's not corporate, but yeah, I don't know. It seemed, you know, looking back now, man, it just seems, I would hope, I guess I didn't know that our military and our government could be so deceitful and devious. I didn't realize that. Honestly, I didn't either. That's one of the thing when you join,

you don't really get a lot of education on the uniform code of military justice and just what will happen if you were accused of something in the military. And most people don't find out until it happens to them. And then you realize that that system is as corrupt. And just there, it's not a perfect. system. It's your it's swayed against you whoever's being accused. I mean to give you an example the first time I got the binder from them saying you know this is all the evidence we have against you and blah blah. It said on the cover Eddie Gallagher chief Eddie Gallagher versus the United States.

That alone looking at that you're like tough battle that is you are taking on the United States government who has everything at their disposal. And so what we come to find out during that is the only rights that you have when you're put in that position are the ones you can afford because you better get a damn good lawyer because they will, you know, the military assigns you on, but they're part of the system. That lawyer is not there on your better behalf. He's there just because he works for the system. And he's like, okay, I have to defend this guy.

You need a good lawyer who is not afraid to call them out when they're, doing corrupt stuff. And that's what, you know, when I hired Tim Parlatorre finally, he came in that courtroom like a bull and was like, you're lying about this. This is not true. And I mean, the judge, I mean, wanted to throw him out the first couple times. He was in the courtroom. But that's what you need because they will constantly just keep doing it if they're not being

called out. And, you know, I know you've read in the book. Eventually they got caught. they sent spyware to my lawyers trying to infiltrate to an email right yeah trying to infiltrate our defense and see what our defense was and all that and then they got caught doing it and here's the thing they'd been doing that stuff like that nonstop up to that point and we had been trying to call them out like they were leaking all this stuff to the media which they weren't supposed to do I mean they had a let's say called a gag order right so we weren't allowed to talk to the media we weren't allowed to put

anything out and neither were they weren't supposed to either except they were the ones leaking all the stuff to the media still using it and it was all misinformation and but yeah eventually they got caught and just to you know give you some perspective like if a civilian lawyer got caught doing what they did, they were thrown in prison. But because it was under the UCMJ and in the military, all that happened to that prosecutor, which is Chris Chaplac, he was removed and sent across to the East Coast to start prosecuting people again. So there was really no accountability for any of it. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's crazy. It's, you know, when the stories came out and you'd watch the news, they would have all those things you're talking about, probably that the gag were supposed to, to control,

but the narrative was that you did it, you're guilty. Here's this war crimes, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, when it gets down to it, it's like, no, this was all lies. But how long it's CNN and MSN and everybody had made up their mind this whole time? So your name is attached to this war crime term. And it's like it was a lie. Yeah. I mean, but that's a it's it's kind of the unfortunate thing that happens to people.

You know, it happened to me, but I'm not the only one. I've seen this happen to numerous people now since we started our foundation. And that's part of what we do with our foundation is, you know, when we help these individuals out, and what we do is we help law enforcement, active duty, and first responders. if they're being unjustly accused with doing their job and are pretty much presumed guilty, we step in and we start doing

exactly what my wife and brother did for me. We start fighting for them. We've made tons of good connections. But when I talk to these individuals and I'm like, listen, what you have to understand is this. You will win the trial and you will come out of this.

But because of the way our media and the way our society is, you are still going to be looked at as X, Y, or whatever you're being accused of. And I was like, and that's something you're going to have to learn to overcome. And that's not an easy thing because nobody likes to be called names or be criticized for stuff that's not true. But at the end of the day, you know, I've learned to look past it. I don't, you know, it still happens to me from time to time. And what I tell them is like, you know, especially in my case, I'm just something.

that they can pull off the shelf every once in a while when they want to attack Trump or attack, you know, whatever political agenda they have going on, they can easily pull me off and be like, oh, well, they did this to this war criminal. And I'm just, I think because we went through that gauntlet, I'm not bothered by it anymore. I don't, I know the game. And, you know, those people's opinions don't matter anything to me. It's, you've come to peace with just how, just, yeah, because as you said, it's like, people might, if they don't know anything about it, don't know the details. They'd see like, oh, this guy was accused of this, did this, but Trump got him off. Yeah.

And that's not, that's, I mean, you went, it went to trial, you were not guilty. And as a matter of like another thing. And I don't think I, I don't know if I put this in the book. I haven't read that, you know, I wrote it five or six years ago. Yeah. That was it. But before I went to trial. I definitely got word that, hey, Trump is talking about pardoning you.

And it was me, Matt Goldstein, who was a Green Beret, that was being accused of war crimes. And then there was a Clint Lawrence, who was already in Leavenworth. He was an Army officer. And I said, no. I was like, really? I asked my lawyer. I was like, if he does, do I have to take it? And my legal team was like, we don't know.

And I'm like, because I don't want it. I want to go to trial. My wife and I were both on board. We were like, nope. We know what's right and we're willing to sit there and I'll put up my life and bet my life on it. And, you know, I didn't know for sure what would happen, but at least a pardon means you're guilty. Right. That's, there's no other way around it.

You got let off the hook because of this. And I knew I was, I was like, I am not guilty. And I'm willing to face my accusers. and then if I somehow do get found guilty, at least I can walk out of my head held high and I didn't take a hand out. Yeah, wow, that's a, yeah, I totally get that. I understand that, I mean, taking the pardon would be a relief in some ways.

Yeah, I mean, believe me, it wasn't that. It was definitely thought to like, okay, dude, if I get found guilty, would he be able to pardon me then? Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, I understand. I mean, I had my kids to think about as well. Yeah. You know, when I look at, when I think of your whole story, I think about, because I read that you were, I think, 19, partying, hanging out, not much going on and thought, I'm going to join the military, right? Isn't that how it worked? And then you thought you were going to go in it as a Marine, but you had a chance to maybe be a seal, you know, go to Buds. Turns out that's not the contract you signed. But I mean, what a journey from that young man there to what. Where are you, after 20 years, a decorated war veteran and obviously an incredible leader,

what a journey that was from 19 year old to where you are now? I got to live my dream. I mean, it was a privileged career. You know, from the time I joined, I joined in 99, and I had about a couple years of pre-9-11. And then from then on, it was game on. And there's no better privilege than to be able to go fight for your country, right? And that's what we signed up for. And to be able to, like, go do these jobs, be a seal, be a sniper, or whatever job that you picked in the military during that time, and then go apply those for real.

I mean, to me, I was living the dream. I was loving every minute of it. That's why it's like, I think, and I'm not the only one who feels like this, where for a lot of us, you know, people are like, oh, thank you for your service. And I'm grateful for, I'm like, thank you. But to me it'd be like someone coming up to you and be like, oh, thank you for bow hunting today. And you're like, what do you mean? Like, I know, this is my life.

This is my dream. I love doing this. And that's kind of how a lot of us feel, too. It's right. You know, it's just a different type of individual. Yeah, I mean, all the respect in the world to you and, you know, in saying that, I do appreciate everything you've offered our country. I am curious, how do you become the leader that you were and are, but how does that, was that your goal? No.

To be the guy calling the shots? Or how did that transition happen? Um, just through experience. Um, I think I, you know, my wife says I'm, I'm always, uh, taking the rough side of the mountain, even when the easy one presents itself and sometimes it's to my own detriment. But I just worked. I worked at it. I, I volunteered.

I did as many platoons as I could, you know, and, um, in the teams, like, eventually, if you've done enough platoons are like, hey, you're, you're going to leadership. position and I actually was putting that off. I was like, I just want to stay as a shooter. I'll be a senior shooter and just keep doing the job. But eventually, you know, I had done enough and my, one of the masteries was like, dude, you're, you're going to be a leader, Nick. Like, you're, you've been ready for it. But that's all through experience. I mean, I, my career, I was around some of the best leaders that I could possibly ask for. And I was also around some of the worst. And what you do is just take attributes from both and you form the leader that you want to be eventually,

you know, and you're constantly doing that. I mean, it's in those communities, we're always watching each other, judging each other, and it's for a good thing sometimes and sometimes it's for a bad thing, but, you know, you're doing that to make yourself better. You're taking attributes from others that you sort of wish you had or that you can work on. You're like, dude, I like the way the guy does this or I like the way, you know, he, he puts out word or he gets people to follow him or believe in him. And so you're constantly taking little notes in your mind like,

okay, that's how I want to be when I'm in charge. And I think it just naturally, it just naturally happened that way. You know, and it is also in the community, if you've deployed a combat numerous times. I mean,

I'm like, that definitely gives you clout. I'm not saying that makes you a good leader. But it does give you some experience and knowledge that others don't have. I think, don't the guys talk about, when you're talking about certain guys, you're like, you attach how many deployments they've had.

Yeah. When you talk about them. Yeah, especially, well, combat deployments. Especially during the past 20 years, that was a huge thing, right? I mean, you can call it petty or whatever, but yeah, if you look at someone's uniform when they're in their dress uniform

and they don't have any combat action or combat awards and they've been in for just as long as you have, then, yeah, you're sort of raising your eyebrow, like, what have you been doing? You know, I think there is some rhyme and reason to that. But, yeah, I mean, you are, it's part of being judged. You are judged on how many combat or deployments you have. And rightly so, because along, that comes with experience, right? Yeah.

It doesn't, it's not the end-all be-all. Right. But it definitely adds to your resume. It means something. Yeah. In that situation, you said you mentioned some good attributes you take from leaders. What would you see as an attribute from a bad leader when you were in the SEALs? Like what did you want to try to avoid?

Well, just on sort of like the admin side or being back at the team, like the micromanagers, I like to put out my expectations. and this is what my standards are in my platoon. But I'm going to like, these are your responsibilities, go run with them. And I'm, you know, if you mess up, if you give me a reason to double check your work, then I'm going to double check your work. But if you don't, then, you give them all the latitude they need to get their jobs done. You also lead by example.

You set the standard. If you have a standard and you put it out, you better be able to follow that same standard. I saw a lot of leaders that would expect a lot from their guys, but wouldn't do it themselves. Also putting yourself over the team, that's a bad leadership trait. If you are trying to better your career or make yourself look good, but it comes to the detriment of your platoon, then you don't need to be there. And I think we see a lot of that now in the military with the upper brass leadership. You have, you call, they're called ladder climbers or politicians in uniform where they are trying to make it to a certain point.

And they will do whatever it takes to get there. And if it's at the behest of the men and women below them, then whatever. And so that right there, I think we've seen a lot of that with our officers in the military now. And I think now we can see the detriment where the recruiting numbers are so low. Like there's nothing inspiring about that. Right. You know, I think I chose to lead. I did my best.

And I even feel awkward saying I was a good lead. Like I was a leader, but I did my best to lead by example. So I would not ask my men to do what I would not do myself. And if I asked them to do something dangerous, I would be at the front. Well, they said that you were, you worked them too hard. So it's like, but you were working right along with them, right? Yeah. I was going out every day with.

them and here's the other thing I split them into two groups so one group would get to rest and refit back in Urbiel that which is at some nice house back there and they would switch out week on week off so they were half the platoon was getting a rest but myself and my OIC and which is the officer in charge and then I think one or two other guys went out every day or until the completion of Missoule so that excuse So you were actually working twice as hard as they some of them. For sure I was. Yeah.

There was, you could see it in my, in my OIC too, our bodies. Like we were pretty thin. Like it was a lot of work, but that's what we were there to do. Well, and I remember I also read that you would stay, I don't know if it was on the front line, but you would stay forward where they would go back and get a shower and everything, right? once a week, something like that, but you, you never left.

No. Is that, is that right? Yeah. That's, uh, that's the job of the leader. It's like I said, you, you set the standard. You set the example and you don't ask anything of your men that you would not do yourself. Um, so yeah, I wasn't going to leave the front lines or whatever you wanted to call it. Yeah.

And I did want my men to be rested. Like, I knew how tiring it was. So I was like, yeah. you guys go rest and refit that way there should be no complaints yeah yeah shouldn't have been but yeah so but i'm curious too um i mean i can i can hear your your pro the pride in your voice about serving in your job it'd be easy to have to hold a grudge against the united states of our government but you still on your hoodie there and on your hat united states of america so there's no grudge against the country.

No, not one bit. I mean, no, you still loved your job. So how do you, are you still just red, white and blue till the day you die? Yeah, I love this country. I mean, I have a, I don't know, I grew up in the military. I think, I'm going to be 45 this year.

I think I've been away from the military total six years out of my life. My dad, I grew up in a military, He was in the military for 24 years. When I was in high school, it was the only time that we were detached from the military and then I joined pretty much right out of high school. Now my son is serving. My oldest son Trevin just joined the Marine Corps. He's at SOI right now.

And, you know, growing up a military brat, I moved in Asia. I lived on a lot of other countries. So every time we go to like Korea, China, whatever for two years. We'd come back to the United States. I remember being like so ecstatic to get back to the United States because even at that age when I was younger, I knew what we had here. And then I still do. You know, this is the greatest country on the planet. And I know at times it may not seem like it with all the madness that goes on nowadays. But we're not even close to being like some of these other third world countries that I've been to.

And I mean, and I'm just blessed that I'm able to be born here. And I think that serving your country is one of the most honorable things you can do if you love it. And I will always feel that way. That's a, it's part of my heritage. Most of the males in my family and even the females served during all the wars. It's just part of who we are.

And I'll continue to be that way. And I tell people this because I do get asked a lot. Like, how can you let your son join after what happened to you? Or don't you like have all these issues? I'm like, no, man. I'm like, that was a couple bad leaders that came after me. Just a couple bad people. I'm like, the military as a whole is not like the men and women that serve are there for the right reasons.

So I'm not going to blanket statement and just condemn a whole group out of the actions of a few. That would be like going to Walmart and having a bad interaction with the register lady and then being like screw all Walmart's. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, yeah, I understand that. I love your attitude about it. I mean, because it would be hard not to be a little bit bitter.

Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I was definitely, there was some bitterness going on when I got out. But that's we evolve as people, right? And, you know, you can't hold on. I was, I definitely was angry when I got out. I was bitter about what happened because, yeah, it was unfair. But life's unfair, you know. That's not the last time something unfair is going to happen to my family.

And if you sit there and hold on to that bitterness and anger, you're just making yourself a victim. And you're going to be no good to anybody. So I had to learn to let go and move on and start doing something else with my life find another purpose and that's you know through God thank God you know I'm I'm doing it you know I'm yeah I can't I mean I'm sitting here talking to Cam Haynes you know what I mean this is incredible for me I so I mean we've talked a lot about the the worst part of you know your career with this trial and all that but what

when you look back on it what was the best part what's the best memories you have of those 20 years. Was it a certain deployment, a group of men? What stands out to you as being, I'll never forget that moment or that time? Well, in general, the men that I was able to be around.

I mean, I can't speak on that enough. I got to work amongst giants. These guys, they, I don't know, they had such an impact on my life and how I sort of formed myself.

And that's, that is the one thing. I think most of us that were in the military of some former fashion or have the same thoughts. Like it's the men and the women, you know, depending on what job you have in the military that you're around. And just the, the team,

you know, you're all there for the same purpose. But as far as like a certain memory, I mean, there's so many, but I do like, I have one. where I just remember like, dude, I have the coolest job on the planet. And it was, and I was flying, we were flying into Target.

It was one of my deployments to Afghanistan. And it wasn't like anything different. But I remember I was just sitting on the edge of the Black Hawk, have my legs dangled out. It's like one in the morning we're going to hit this target. And we flew over a couple of forward operating bases on the way. And there was firefights going on between those two. They were fighting somebody.

You could see the tracers going back and forth. The mountains were in the background. the moon was out, you know, I'm under nods and I'm like, dude, who else like would be able to be have this experience? You know, like this is, this is awesome. And that's, you know, one of those memories I look back on anytime like I feel myself like getting down or whatever, you know, having some negative thoughts about it in my head. I'm like, no, I, there's no greater privilege than to be able to go do those 20 years, especially during that time. So on that one that you're talking about specifically, who is that, I mean, what were you guys doing?

And who was the guys you were with? It's like, what made that so special? That moment, yes. The moment itself was special. There was really nothing special about, I mean, it was just another operation that we were going on. Probably, I think, during that time, we were doing the commando mission. which meant we were we had a partner force of about 300 Afghans and there's probably six of us going out with them and we were six to 300 yeah that's I mean it it was

herding cats huh yeah I wouldn't even say they were as smart as cats but yeah it was it was a frustrating job but that was that was the mission at the time that was when And they were trying to be like, oh, the Afghans can operate on their own. You know, now we're just going to send. But at the end of the day, it looked good on paper. Yes. It definitely looked good on paper, I guess. We're helping them.

Then we're going to pull out. They won't need us. They'll be able to defend themselves. It's going to be great. Exactly. Yeah, that's the premise, except they're not going to have us there to pick them up when they're quitting on the patrol or actually pushing them out of the way and doing the clearance yourself because they're too scared to do it.

Yeah, that's that was the name of the game at the time. Yeah. And of your nine deployments, where were they too? Mostly Iraq and Afghanistan back and forth. I did one deployment to UAE was there. That was probably my most miserable deployment because there was nothing going on. Yeah. I was chewing the carpet for six months.

Oh, that's right. But yeah, all of them were back and forth between Iraq and Afghanistan. And then how long were your deployments generally? They were all supposed to be six months. Sometimes they were spread out to nine. It just depended. But usually in a regular SEAL team, deployments are six months. But then that can fluctuate depending on what's going on at the time.

But yeah. And I know when you went in to the Marines, you were sniper, right? So I went in, so I was not a Marine. I was a medic. So the Marines do not have their own medics. So they take them from the Navy. Okay. So you're, it's called being a corpsman.

So I was a corpsman and then got sent over to be a medic with the Marines. Oh, I see. And so, but while you're there, I, I loved being with the Marine Corps. It's, it was like the exact structure that I needed at the time. The Navy definitely was not what I thought it was. going to be. I wanted to be a seal, but the regular Navy's not as, I don't know how to disciplined and structured as a Marine Corps. And because I was such a punk kid, you know, I had no direction or nothing. I needed that. And I flourished in it. I loved every minute of it. I mean,

it was every morning, 5 a.m. get up formation, then go work out. But the beautiful thing about being in the Marine Corps is they love it if you want to. workout. So I would work out after the workouts. And then I just volunteered for everything that I could. I, because as a corpsman, you're really not supposed to partake in the Marine Corps training, right? You're just there like if somebody gets hurt. I didn't like that. So I was like, hey, I want to, I want to fight. And so I volunteered for every school that was offered. I went to Marine Combat Water Survival School, became an instructor there, which was not a easy course. I tried out for stay platoon is what it was called at the time,

but that's pretty much sniper platoon. And that was a month-long screening to even get into that platoon. I made it into there. And from there, the guys liked me. They liked my work ethic. They knew I was eager to learn. And so they offered me a slot at sniper school. The only deal was I would not get credit for it.

They're like, we're not going to give you a graduation certificate because you are a Navy corpsman and I didn't care I was like it doesn't bother me I my whole goal was to be a seal and I was like this is going to help me you know before I go to where where that drive come from seems like you just couldn't get enough like for opportunity and training where did that come from have you always been like that no dude it's no well it comes from my dad my dad is oh has He raised me like that, I guess. I think during high school, I definitely lost some of that.

Well, I think my drive was to party, you know. I think the kids, they see what their dad's like, and a lot of kids are challenged or their dad's challenge them or whatever. So then they're like, I don't want to be like that fucker at all. So then you go away, but then when kids mature a little bit, then they're like, maybe that is the path. Yeah. Is that what happened? I think so.

I think, and I also think a lot of it was I wanted to make. my dad proud. My dad is definitely one of the toughest and smartest human beings I know. I mean, the guy could speak five languages. The dude ran marathons all the time. I just was a very structured and like driven individual. And he, his work ethic was like unparalleled. The guy did everything for our family, like worked as even when he got out.

And I think, you know, in high school, I was definitely. a punk kid, you know, doing high school things. And I just looked at it as I was a disappointment to not only my dad, my parents, you know, like I was definitely the one that were like, we don't know what's going to happen with him. My brother was a little bit opposite. Was he hard on you? Did he tell you that? In ways sometimes, yeah.

We'd go, we'd get after it, start screaming at each other. You know, sometimes I got physical, especially as I got older. And I just, I think I wanted to do something to make them proud. but also that and I think that ended up just turning into like this is what I want to do. I had just, I mean, I put it in the book, you know, I was on mushrooms one night and I think while I was tripping on mushrooms, I had an epiphany and I'm like, this is what I'm doing. And I literally drove to the recruiting office right from there. You said it was like four in the morning and you waited for him to open. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, but it all stems from, yeah. I mean, making my parents proud. So I think, you know, once I got into the military after boot camp, going to core school, and into the Marines, like I said, I flourished in the Marines. I loved it and I wanted to be the best, you know, always.

I still do have that attitude. I mean, you should be wanting to be the best at whatever you're doing. So that's why I was so driven. And then so you went to the sniper school. You didn't get credit. and then what happened? 9-11 had already kicked off. We deployed,

was it with First Battalion, Eighth Marines, did a deployment when they went to Missoule, Iraq. And then I got orders to Buds, so I came back from that deployment and literally went to seal selection or Buds. Because at first you were saying that your contract didn't say you got the opportunity for bugs, right? So how'd that work out?

Again, it's all looking. back now divine intervention i uh yeah i didn't have the contract so the first four years i screened maybe 15 times to go to buds and i what does that mean screened took the uh physical test to take to okay accepted gotcha and i each time i smoked everybody i came in first each and every time and was denied each and every time by why um mainly well because i have a contract and like you have have to be here for a certain amount of years. And then, of course, 9-11 happened. And I'm like, now we need Corman.

You can't go. And it was just that on time. And it didn't stop me, though. Like, I kept screening. And finally, there was a chief that checked in to 1-8. And he was looking at all of our records. And he saw how many times I had screened. And he literally was like, why the hell has this guy not gone to buds?

And nobody had an answer for him. he came and found me and marched me down to administration and got me orders right then and there all because of that man wow who what is his name can you say it dude and i'm i don't i don't i wish i did i actually tried to go back and uh visit him after i had made it through buds just still didn't know his name but i knew i was like hopefully he still works here so i can thank him but yeah oh man well how did buds go then fine yeah yeah i loved every minute of it uh I think I had spent that whole, I was obsessed, obsessed with going to Buds, even when I was in the Marine Corps.

So I wasn't out partying, even though, you know, I would go out every once in a while and drink, but I, like, made it my mission. All I did was train for Buds for four years. Isn't that, was that story when the first time you went into that recruiter's office after you getting there four in the morning, didn't you point at the post or something like that? Yeah. He said, what do you want to do? And was it a seal poster?

Yeah. Yeah. I was like that right there. I just had it in my mind. It was like, this is it. And so I think from all the work that I had put in, all the schools that I had volunteered for, by the time I got to buzz and plus the amount of times that I had screened and been denied, I could not have been happier to be there.

I mean, Buzz was hard. It's miserable. It's exactly what it says it is. It's supposed to be. Yeah. The mindset I had, I was like, dude, I am grateful to be here. I am so thankful I get to go through this. And never once did I think quitting.

You know, I definitely, I got rolled. I failed one of the pool tests and got rolled back a class. But that was the only hiccup. I just, yeah, I loved every minute of it. It was exactly what it advertises to be, though. How do you fail the pool class? What happened? So in second phase is dive phase.

Buds is broken down into three phases. There's first phase, second phase, and third phase. First phase is pretty much there to weed out all the people that don't belong. And then if you, you know, Hell Week is like the fourth week of first phase. And then from first phase, you graduate on to second phase. And that's pretty much where like, all right, They have the core group of guys that are willing to put up with all the suffering and misery. And these are the guys that we want to train.

But the beatings and all that don't stop, really. So you're still getting tested out and there's still options to get dropped. So the second phase is diving. So you have to do a pool competency test before they take you out into the ocean to do dives. And during that, it's called pool competency. you have twin 80 tanks on your back and you're crawling along the bottom of the pool and what the instructors come down and do is they pretty much come down and beat the piss out of you take your oxygen out tie your oxygen tank and knots like take your mask

flip you around a bunch and then you have to do a very certain set of procedures each and every time and it has to be to a T to get your air back and everything and I think during one of the hits I it was actually like my tabs you have to realign your tabs of your straps and they have to be a I think a thumb length and mine

was a little over a thumb length so that was a fail and yeah it's little stuff like that but either way you know it's I got rolled back and got to go through so I started with class 251 and finished with 252

mm-hmm what what advice because a lot of guys see maybe like you did see that post or see a TV show or see whatever. What advice do you do you have for young guys who want to be a seal? I would say make it your, if that's what you want to do, make it your number one priority. If you want to be a seal and go to buds and pass, there can't be anything else in your life that tops that. I mean, maybe for some people, they're able to do it. But for me, I'm like, you have to make that a priority of the training, put in all the training you need to, start running and swimming.

And just don't quit. That's it. There's no, you can't pick somebody out of a crowd and be like, that person can make it through. That person can't. It's, especially when I was a first phase instructor, it's it's pretty crazy the guys you see at the beginning of the class and you know all of us are like oh dude that guy's not making it he's a 120 pounds soaking wet that's the guy standing at the end of the

day um it's it's all up on the individual but you just have to have that i'm not going to quit attitude um i'll die before i quit and those are usually the guys that make it through um wrestlers do a very good job yeah yeah because they especially if they've been wrestling since a young age they grow up learning grit and resilience really young and i think that helps them out a lot yeah yeah no it's it's that heart you can't see heart you know when you're looking at somebody yeah i i mean you see that in ultras all the time too you're like you can't really judge who's going to be good at an ultra exactly i mean because ultras are a lot of times just about you know not trying to compare this with being a seal but it's like it's it's it's tricky like

you can be fooled by who you think might be good and who's really good. Yeah, and you can compare it, I think, because I, you know, we had talked. I just did that 200-mile or in the 10-mile swim last November. That was the closest thing I've done to Hell Week. The, because you are in some pain. Yeah. Eventually, I don't care who, like, oh, maybe some of these guys that do them professionally, they're smart about it.

Like we were talking about that. Yeah. A more of the Neanderthal mindset of like, I'm going to go do this. Yeah. But eventually you're going to, your whole body is going to be in pain. And that's, your brain's pretty crazy. And it can come up with all the excuses in the world to stop. It's like, you're going to permanently damage yourself.

You're, this is, is this worth it? You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you have to learn to push all those stupid negative thoughts out of the way and keep going. That's what Hell Week is. It's, they keep you up all week I think you sleep for a total of like five hours the whole week but they are running you

the whole time with boats on your heads there is it's just nothing but pure pain and it's the guys that are able to push those thoughts of quitting or those weak negative thoughts that come into your mind out and to keep going and it's also you know buds is also about team so

you're like if you are sitting there whining and like oh like I'm hurt I'm hurt it's like so's everybody else your pain is not any more important than everybody else's so shut your mouth and keep working and that because everybody else is and that's what we need to do like you're there for the guy next to you and to keep him going and he's there for you and we all have our weak moments it's the same darn up like that ultra that I did like there was times where I was like, too, my legs or not, they don't feel like they're working, even though I'm still going. Yeah. And then I have my buddy who, you know, might have been next to me.

He's feeling good. And I'm like, all right, I'm going to, he's going. But then there's times where he's feeling like that and I'm feeling good. So like we were sitting there feeding off each other. And that's pretty much what the teams is about. Mm-hmm. When you were, so was it more like you didn't want to let your teammates down or did you have like a chip on your shoulder like I'm proving people wrong or was it like no this is what

I'm destined to do which of those three do you think it's a or a mix what is it's a mix it's a mix of like this is what I'm destined to do and also I feel like I have imposter syndrome the whole time like do I like I can't believe I'm here now I have to prove my worth every day to be here um there's I think that is the drive that keeps you going um And, you know, I think imposter syndrome gets like a negative connotation. But I think a lot of guys feel like that. They were like, dude, I can't believe I'm working amongst these freaking heroes and warriors. Yeah.

I get to be a part of it. So you're constantly trying to do the best you can to prove that you have a spot amongst them. You know, I think that's what keeps you going. And then eventually, you know, also you're going to war. So, yeah, the repercussions of not being prepared and not being the best at your job can be death. So, yeah, I'm going to work my ass off to make sure I am the best at whatever, you know, hone my craft the best I can. How did I'm, I don't know, it's just kind of perplexes me that guys can go through that with the mindset you just explain.

and then are the same guys you're trying to get you in trouble for pushing them too hard? How do you come through hell we to be a seal, the tip of the spears, what people like to say, and then be a guy who's complained they're being pushed too hard?

How does that happen? I have a theory on that. I'd love to hear it. So when I was a first phase instructor that was around 2000, 2011 or 12 There was an order put out and Obama was present at the time that they wanted to expand the seal force They wanted to create 500 more seals

So when I was an instructor and we were running seven classes a year Seven weeks seven seven week classes seven classes a year No breaks the the amount of students in each class almost doubled, like 300 would start. And we were undermanned as instructors. And during that time, they were trying to lower the standards at Buds. This is how they were going to create more seals. Luckily, there's Navy SEALs as instructors who will not allow that to happen.

But you got to think, man, there's always, in every Bud's class, there's a bottom of the barrel, right? There's always a couple. There's guys who squeak through, I'm sure. So you can just, so if you're doubling the size of the class, you're also going to double the size of guys that squeak through. So that might be four to five guys each class now that squeaked through. Seven classes, that's 35 guys that don't belong in the teams. So that might not sound like a lot, but we are a very small community.

And so that, I think from that area, and that's when those individuals in that last platoon went through buds was during that era. I think it created this toxic effect of like these these kids were entitled. They felt like they, you know, they didn't have to prove anything. They don't have to be told what to do. And I, those are the, you know, this is the effect of it was what happened. You know, and my wife called that a long time ago. And you know what was funny, dude, is when I took over that platoon, I had them all over to my house for a barbecue.

Just like, hey, welcome the platoon barbecue. Let's get to know each other. And they all left my house. And my wife was the one who was like, this is the very beginning of the platoon. She's like, I don't fucking like those guys. She's like, they seem weak. And I was like defending them. I'm like, maybe you don't even know, you know.

Yeah. I'm telling you. Call it like she sees it. Yeah. Yeah, it's, well, it's weird to that, man, that lowering that standard for just in life in general, I don't agree with, let alone to be a seal, lower the standard to be the tip of the spear? And that's the thing. How does that make sense? It's a numbers game.

So we call it turning the spicket on and turn the spicket off. So when they want to create more seals, you know, spikets on. Let's get them through. And they try and do it in like, it's not like they're coming out right being like, we're lowering the standard. But right. What they'll do is like cut corners, you know, log BT used to be three hours. Well, now just make it an hour and a half.

And also you can't touch them 15 minutes before or 15 minutes after. Or after log PT. So really it's only, you mean touch them. So like you can't mess with them. So the students have 15 minutes to get the logs, get them prepped. And then the last 15 minutes. You have to leave them alone to put the logs away.

So that really only leaves, what, not great at math, 45 minutes for log PT when it used to be three hours. But here's the thing. And like I told you, as long as you have team guy instructors, they're going to get their pound of flesh. So you let them set up for 15 minutes and then take them on a, you know, three mile march with the logs until they have 15 minutes left. And you're like, well, now you have 15 minutes to get three miles back and put those logs away.

See you at the next evolution. Yeah. That will always happen there. They'll keep it honest in their own way. Yeah. What's the advantage to creating more seals, though? I mean, why does that come down from Obama to say, hey, we need 500 more seals? Because I believe in, I'm not, don't quote me on this or I'm not a professional strategist,

but they, the war was still going on. And I think the NSW, we were the rock stars at the time, you know, because of the whole bin Laden thing and all that. They wanted to expand the force to cover more areas of operation around the globe. And that was, you know, we only have so many operators. So I think that's one of the reasons like they want to create more of you guys. But here's the thing is it's supposed to be quality over quantity. So when you start trying to make more, the quality is going to go away. Yeah, you're watering it down.

Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know. It doesn't make much sense to me. So, I mean, you talked about the culture, and we know what it's like to be around. I mean, I don't know about military alpha guys, but in my own little world with hunters,

there's guys that can be critical of each other. Yeah. What was, you know, I remember seeing this about with Dan Crenshaw and you. It's like, to me, it was weird because I was always a big Dan Crenshaw fan. I thought, well, he's a seal and he's a congressman. And it's like, man, what an incredible combination. But then you were, I think, did your brother talk to him? Yes.

About helping you out. Basically just to be able to talk to your attorney. if I remember right or what was it yeah it was so during that time I my my brother was going to Congress trying to get any congressman to pay attention to what was going on um and you know it was definitely a hard fight nobody nobody wants to take on the military even in congress are like uh we don't want to touch the do it's a no win situation or what yeah yeah and you're you're pretty much fighting an uphill battle of mount Everest you know so don't mind me that run on Sunday.

Dude, definitely got to let people know about that before this. But yeah, so Crenshaw, because he was a seal, his name was being brought up nonstop. Like, we need to get Crenshaw on board. He could help you out. Yes. Again, I'm locked up. They're telling me this over the phone, and I'm just like, sure. I definitely at the time was like, and I knew it in my head.

I'm like, he's not going to do anything. How can you, what did you think that? Because he was an officer. Oh. And so there's a difference between officers enlisted. You were enlisted. Yeah. Yeah.

And he, I just was like he's part of the institution. And I don't see him sticking his neck out for me. So, and I'm not even mad about it. I'm just like, I just don't see that happening. What happened is my brother went to him multiple times. finally called him out, I guess, said something to him face to face about like, oh, I thought you, something about not being a real seal or whatever. So that got Dan mad and was like, we're not mad, but he's like, okay, I'll help your brother out. I'm going to do something. Eventually, we had

50 congressmen sign a petition to get me out of the brig. Crenshaw would not sign that petition. He made his own stating that I should stay in the brig, except I just just see my lawyers. They should give me the right to see my lawyers more. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Like that went on. So at that point, we were like, screw this dude. We're not going to depend on him. It wasn't until after I got out, which I found out when I went to Congress to thank the 50 congressman who signed the petition that they all said he was working directly against me, trying to get them all not to support me saying it was his community and that they should butt out and that yeah he was trying to put me away for life and here's the thing man and i don't like that's

fine if that's your disposition and that's great you're against me good at least i know you're on a side he was going on the news saying the opposite that he was trying to help me while doing all that behind the scenes. So to me, I'm like that guy is the worst kind of snake, just a bad, bad human being with bad character. And I actually did not put any of that in my book. I think I wanted to when I was writing. And my wife, who's always a voice of reason,

we were talking about it. And she was like, I don't think it's a good idea. I think we should just take the high road. And I was like, okay, left him out of it. And it wasn't until, the whole David Gaggins and him, a little spat they were in, went off and Gaginz sent me the text message that Crenshaw had sent him. And it pretty much, I forget what exactly verbatim what it said,

but it was like, Eddie Gallagher is such a piece of shit. Even after I tried to help him, this and that, right? And here's the thing. I was like, dude, I haven't even said a word about you. Yeah. You're calling me a piece of shit. So at that point, I looked at my wife and I was like, listen, I have to say something because not out of spite, but just for the simple fact that like people like you even are like, he was a seal, he's a congressman. That does not make just because someone's a seal and just because someone has a purple heart and got injured in combat does not make them a good individual.

And if someone in that position of authority has that bad of a character. and will literally lie or, you know, I call him a kite fire which every way the wind's blowing is like, oh, now I'm going this way. I'm like, that's not the type of individual that I would want representing, you know, my part of the county or whatever, wherever he's representing it in Texas.

And I was like, I think people deserve to know who he is. And I think Goggins did a great job too of sort of exposing him for the two-faced guy he is. So, you know, that's why I put out that video. And, you know, I actually, in the video, I was like, hey, man, I'll meet you face to face and we can talk about it. It's just he won't because he has no response because I had all. What else I made sure I had is all the facts.

Yeah, you posted the letters. Yeah. I mean, so it's like, what would you say? You can't really dispute it. No. Or he couldn't. No, he can't. Yeah, it's, you know, I think people from the outside, because I did see this that, you know,

like, oh, that should be held or done behind closed doors because everybody looks up to the seals, right? And then now these personality things come come out. But to your point, I think when you're a public figure or a politician representing the public, people need to know what type of person they're dealing with or voting for. Exactly. I mean, so it's not just like two regular guys who served years ago and now they're doing their own thing. No, this is somebody in an important position of authority. And my worry is that because people, Dude, they're like, oh, crinch holds a seal. He's awesome.

Blah, blah, blah. They really don't know anything about him. That's all I knew. That's how he could eventually keep climbing the ladder and be the next president of the United States, which who knows if that's his goal. But then we're stuck in a position like, how the hell did we get this? It's because no one has held him accountable along the way. And I think we've seen it now with the leaders we have in office. It's like they've all done corrupt things throughout their whole career, except they're never held accountable.

no one ever calls them out. Right. And then we end up with sort of what we have now. Mm-hmm. I think, man, there's a part in here. And I don't know. I don't think that I put a bookmark on it. You would know it, but your wife talked about the story of John and the Bible.

Yes. So explain that. To me, there's a lot of similarities in your story there. Yeah. This is pretty crazy to talk about. I get emotional when I talk about this stuff because it's a yeah it's just like I said divine intervention my wife is like she's always been a prophetic sort of person where she can sort of be like do you keep doing this this is going to happen and then it eventually happens you know or

so the day that I was arrested I was you know going through my my day but I had called her that morning. I always called her in the morning just to check on her because she was in Florida at the time and I was in California. And she was like, hey, I'm, I'm reading the story of John and how he was throwing a pit or in jail pretty much in prison by his own brothers. And she was like, I'm praying for you. And like, none of this at that time, like we had no inclination that any of this stuff was going to happen. But she said that to me and literally, Two and a half hours later, I was being thrown in prison. And I'll tell you this, too, during the time I was locked up, I would call her. And she would, she's such like an amazing person. She's like, all of this, like the whole time, she's like, this is all going to work out. Like, even when I was. Never lost faith.

Not for an ounce. Like, how, how does she? Dude, she is probably, she's the, she's the, she. She is the strongest individual I know on this planet, and she is the most just faith-driven person. And that's how she runs her life. And so during that time, yeah, she was like, this is all going to work out, even when I would call her and I'm frustrated. And she's like, I've already seen it. She's like, you are going to meet the president of the United States.

This is all going, like this is, I mean, I'm talking about a month end, dude. she and I can't explain it um this is just the the woman that I'm married to and uh you know I'm blessed but you know that's and I I made make that a huge point in my book like finding God in prison was the best thing that ever happened in my life um you know it took everything being taken away from me uh you know I literally got down on my hands and knees in the cell you know I put this in the book because I think it's the most important part of the story I gave everything thing to him. I was like I cannot because as men dude I think I know you're the same way we can control what's going on. I will fix this. I will take it there's nothing I couldn't control anything.

So I had nothing left. So I gave it to him and I'll tell you man there's no there's no drug. There's no psychedelic no amount of alcohol. There's nothing that could make me feel the way I did when I did it. It was literally the weight of the world came off my shoulders. And I mean, it's the most physical thing I've ever felt. And so from that point on, I've been, you know, I'm a complete man of faith. And even after I got out and dealing with everything, you know, all the negative stuff that came out afterwards, you know, and I went to every treatment possible. I went and did psychedelics.

I did all the rigmar role of what most veterans do when they get out looking for, like, what's going to help me. And it wasn't until I have committed to, you know, and I've been doing it. doing it for I think a year and a half, two years now. I get up every morning, I talk to God for 20 to 30 minutes, read my Bible, and I've never felt better in my life. And that's, there's nothing else that I need. And that is like probably one of the most important messages I want people to get from that story.

Because I'm not one of those guys. I can't sit here and quote scripture and, you know, I don't know the Bible back and forth, but I know from just my firsthand experience. like that he is real and that he loves us and that with faith in him you can through faith in him you can get through anything. I, you know, just men being men, I wish it didn't take almost losing everything before we humble ourselves to that, you know. Well, some of us are stubborn.

Yes, very, I'm the same, but it's like you're in a prison cell. It's like, why did it take that for you to have this? But that's just how life works. Yeah. Because we get, we get, as you said, we'll fix it, we'll take care of it. That works until it doesn't work. Until it doesn't. Right.

Until, yeah, something's thrown at you that you can't control. And that'll happen to anybody. Was your wife encouraging you to give yourself to God? Our whole marriage. I mean, here's the thing. I before we got married that was a what do you call it it was on the table like if we're going to be married ground rule you need to have faith like this is who I am and you need to be on the same path with me and so I was raised Catholic bad I'm a bad Catholic didn't go church after I left the house

but I believed in God or I thought I did I was like yeah I believe in God and had no problem it was half ass, believe in God. I went to church every Sunday with my wife and kids. More like going through the motions type thing. Exactly. You know, and I would pray on deployments before operations. But no, it's, I had never given myself to him like that, like I did in that cell. And that's when I felt his full power.

So, yeah, it's, you know. Like my wife said, she's like, it took you, she jokes about it. She's like, it took you being thrown in a prison cell, having everything taken from you. She's like, you are one stubborn son of the bitch. That's why I say, I wish it wouldn't take that for everybody or for, I know it doesn't for everybody. I hope it doesn't, man. I really don't. That's why I hope people, you know, when I hear that, like, just give it a shot, try it.

I think that, I mean, I think your relationship with your wife is like a huge testament. to how men and women are supposed to form a union. Yes. You know, you are the warfighter. You are the leader. But she seems just as strong as a decorated war veteran. If not stronger. And that's, but that's how you survive.

Yeah. That's how you survive and thrive and flourish. And I don't know, to me it's a beautiful story. I mean, I can't imagine the pain and the ups and downs you went through but when you look at the story of love and support it doesn't get any more perfect i thank you for that i mean i i'm thankful for it every morning i tell god and thank you for blessed me with such a perfect you know wife uh and she i mean she is she's made my best friend she's been since high school uh but yeah that's um it's yeah it's one of those things where i start thinking about it and i'm

like dude i don't want to jinx it i just we're we're on on the good path. Yeah. We always have been. And, you know, going through those trials and tribulations like that, um, it's no different than going through like doing an ultra or like going on a long ass hunt, I'm sure and like going through all that pain and everything.

But then getting that big bowl, you know, at the end, like there's a reward for put it going through that. And so, you know, going through all those trials and tribulations, all that did was level me and my wife and my kids up. It's like they're my my kids are on another level now like they don't they've been through the ringer and They do their their character and just the way they look at life now is completely different They don't let things a little bullshit bother them And I mean that's that's the blessing

Yeah, it's you have to you have to you have to go through Mountains of adversity to become a lot stronger. Yeah, well, it's you You're a testament to that. What's the F-A-F-O? So this is sort of the mantra as we were going through this, and this is from my wife. You know, every time the Navy or the media tried to put something negative out, you know, my wife would just crush them with the facts on Instagram or,

I mean, she got invited on a news thing. And the government and the Navy and the media could not keep up. They were just, I mean, she was literally being discussed at the Pentagon. And so anytime they tried to pull some sway lay shit, she'd be like, all right, fuck him out and we'll just crush them. So that sort of started from there. And that's been sort of our mantra. It's, you know, we're cool.

We're nice. We want to be cool with everybody. But like, if you want to come up against us, you're going to find out that we're not going to back down. Right. We're fighters. And we'll fight for what we think is right. And that's why we start.

of the, you know, our the Pipe-Hitter Foundation. I think that's one of the missing things, you know, that's, I don't know how to explain, something that's been missing is helping our law enforcement, you know, active duty and first responders out when they are being unjustly accused for doing their job. There's nobody there to sort of help them and support them and guide them along the way as they go through the same trials and tribulations we did. And, uh, So after it was even before I think it was before we went to trial we already had the idea like this is what we're going to do when we get out and we are going to help You know all these service men and women They started off just active duty service men and women and then

We decided like no, we're going to add in law enforcement and first responders and I can tell you man like Especially over the past four years we've helped out a lot of law enforcement officers Who've been unjustly accused and also active duty military and also active duty military and And, you know, we have had 100% success rate so far, which is amazing. But that's, you know, the, a lot of people don't have the same fight in them that Andrea did. It's just people are built different. And how many times is this happening and nobody hears about it? All the time.

You know, because the guys who you mentioned who might be up for being pardoned by President Trump, you know, along with you, even though you didn't, you weren't. But I didn't know those, I hadn't heard those guys. Yeah. You know, and they were convicted or not convicted, but accused of war crimes, right? Yeah. So, I mean, how often does this happen? Nobody knows.

And then these guys are just kind of left to their, on their own and are just subject to whatever. Well, it happens a lot. And that's what I found out when I was locked up. You know, I was around, most of the people I was around in there. there were like 19, 20 year old kids that went out and made a mistake one night, maybe smoked some marijuana and failed a drug test and now they're serving eight years. And I'm like, if this kid decided to go to college instead of raise his right hand to serve his country, this wouldn't be happening.

I'm like, you are over punishing people because you're, why? Yeah. So I was really bothered by that. And I'll go ahead and say there were definitely people that belonged in there. I was in a sexual offender prison. So a lot of pedophiles and everything else. But there was a large majority of kids that just made mistakes. And now they're going to be convicted felons the rest of their life because that's how the military works.

So I was like, we need to do something about this. And so she, Andrew was on board. And then, you know, we eventually picked it law enforcement and first responders. But right now, I mean, it's such a complex process when helping these individuals, especially if they're already in the legal system. Because once you're in the legal system, it's no longer about if what you did was right or wrong. It's about who's going to win on either side. You no longer matter.

Now it's the egos of the prosecutors, the DAs, the general attorneys, all these people get involved. And the poor families that have to suffer through all that, the roller coaster of emotions, we, you know, we're there to talk to them because we can relate to give them advice, to, you know, sort of guide them in the right direction. We don't tell them what to do, whatever decision they want to make they can make because a lot of the times there's actually one right now. Cody Smith is a law enforcement officer we're helping and he's been in prison now I think six years and I could be wrong on that maybe longer but he was supposed to be up for appeal the general attorney came out two weeks ago and told his wife I can't believe he was even prosecuted like this is not you know right so we're you know he's up for appeal in a couple weeks great news well he just came back three days ago and was like

like, now he's going to have to plead guilty to manslaughter and we'll let him out of prison, but he's going to be a felon the rest of his life. And so what they're facing is he didn't do this. He doesn't deserve this, but she wants her husband back. Right. So those are the type of situations that these couples that we help out or families are put into. So we do our best to support them however possible. We also raise money for their legal funds.

We provide emergency relief aid to their families during the time because now they have one spouse out of the house that does no longer as a job. So, I mean, that's the beauty of what we are able to do and sort of give back because my wife and brother found a roadmap and how to defeat the media and government and all that. And so we use that to help others right now.

How did, so you talked about your attorney, Tim. Tim Partitory. Yeah, how did you get so lucky into finding good representation like Tim? And then who was the other guy? I had Tim Barletori, Mark Mukasey. And then I had Bernie Carrick as an advisor. Okay. And how did you form that team that sounds like a dream team almost?

Yep. Again, I'll go back to divine intervention. But I had a legal team first that was under a nonprofit called United American Patriots. and what they do is sort of similar to what our mission is. They help people that are being accused in the military. And so all their lawyers are prior Jags. A JAG is a lawyer that was a lawyer in the military and now. I see.

They're out starting their own law firms. So these guys, I called them up because a buddy of mine used them. So I was like, hey, this might be, this is coming down the pipe. I don't know what to do. So they were like, okay, we'll take your case. I signed a thing saying that they would pay, you don't pay a dime. We cover all of your expenses, blah, blah, blah. Who covers it?

The nonprofit. Oh, got you. And so the lawyers work for the nonprofit. So they cover everything. What happened is pretty much the first couple times I went to court with them, and I'm not a lawyer, I've never been to court, but I just looked at them as they were, it was like they had no intention of like putting any effort. into fighting for me.

They were like, oh, yeah, whatever. This is what it is. They had, like, no plan. And I'm getting, like, snippets. I'm out of jail for an hour at court, and then I go back. And then eventually, you know, I was telling my Andrea this over the phone. I'm like, I don't think they're doing right by us.

Of course, it was a very frustrating time. So Andrew is like, well, maybe you're just frustrated because you're in there and you're making snap decisions. And so we kept them. And then eventually, Andrew. I found out that how corrupt they were. So they were raising money. They put my face out there and be like, you know, donate.

Did about 5% of that money. It goes back to the families or legal case. And they were also running up the bill. And it didn't. What was the incident? They pulled me out one day. This was like the incident right here. They pulled me out of prison one time.

for a meeting and they pretty much were they waited about five minutes till i had to go back to prison and they were like hey we're going to extend your case a year and i was like what they're like we think it's better we extend it for a year so we can better prepare now i had been in seven months at this point so i was like you want me to stay in prison for another year so you guys can figure out how to you know and i was like no and it got into a screaming match uh the main lawyer was like you don't make the decisions we do and that's when we're like this is done and then they were also trying to extort my wife for money as well there's it's it's a mess anyway i ended up firing them um Bernie kerrick who had read an article um about the whole thing and he had

been through the same kind of bullshit before in his life he actually reached out to my wife didn't know my wife didn't know us and was like listen whatever you need i'm here to help He's the one who introduced Tim Parlatory to my wife. And then eventually Mark Mukasey came on because he was friends with Bernie as well. And he just same thing. Saw an article or a news clip of it and was like, I don't think this is right. Tell them if they need help, I'll help them. As soon as I found out, he was one of Trump's lawyers.

I was like, yeah, get him on the team. Like we need as much firepower as possible. Yeah. Sounds like they kicked ass. They destroyed. destroyed them. I mean, it's,

but that's what you need. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, well, it wasn't a fair fight to begin with. You're going against the U.S. government.

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, the fact that you were able to, and justice prevailed is beautiful. It was. You know, like I said,

it's all, it was all divine intervention, how that all came together. And, you know, and I don't want to leave out to, like, during that time,

there was a lot of people behind us. I mean, a lot of support from people all over the country that were getting behind my wife and everything she was putting out. So, you know, I can't discount that either. I mean, it's guys like you that were putting out posts, like, you know, expressing what they thought and not scared of the retribution.

Those are the type of individuals that really helped us get through as well. I just didn't like that we can have, you know, we have a volunteer army, essentially. and over there fighting for the United States and what we believe in or what you signed up for and then to be a cute doing your job and then all of a sudden that job is a war crime

just seemed crazy to me. Yeah. It's like... Well, it's yeah. I mean that's a whole other diatribe. You go down with like the ROEs and the restrictions that just kept like evident flowing throughout the war. and they were really just, I mean, I knew about 10 years into the war,

I was like, we're not trying to win. Like, this is, they'd be like, oh, well, now you guys can't do night raids because it's unfair to the Taliban. And now you can't shoot anybody unless they're shooting at you first. And like these crazy rules get put out by politicians behind a desk, and they have no idea, like, what's going on on the ground level and that they're, and I will say this, there should be ROEs. but the types that they were forming at times, rules of engagement.

Oh, right, yeah. And able to engage somebody. And I'm sorry, the acronyms. No, no, it's all good. I should know that one, actually. That's my fault. But yeah, like, they put out these ridiculous rules of engagement and they're getting people killed.

And, you know, if you had served in the war long enough, you figured out, like, these people don't give a shit about us. And also, we're not trying to win anything here. This is just draw this out to make as much money as we can for the military industrial complex. When did you realize that? I would say around like 2012 is when it really hit me. Are the guys talking about that? I mean, no, like it wasn't like this is what they're doing, you know, but you had this weird feeling like too.

looks like these rules would come out like hey guess what guys you can't go after the bed night anymore which means you can't have the advantage because it's unfair guys I remember guys are like what that's that's stupid but then we would do it any like all right well now we're going to have to find but it you never have time to like really sit down like why are they making these stupid rules and it's not until you you know maybe you're done and you start reflecting back and then you also see some of the corrupt stuff that they've been pulling and you're like no I've they were trying to extend that war to keep making money which is why they're I mean look at what we're doing now yeah you know

getting into why are we in Ukraine why are we giving all this money to them all that money is just coming right back to us it's coming back to the military industrial complex you know same thing with Israel it's yeah it's very uh it's nasty you know and that's you know I have a completely different thought now how on war and when we should go and when we shouldn't. And I'm, you know, especially now that my son's in the military as well. But I'm almost at the point where like the next war I would want to fight is the one here on our own turf, you know, that that's when I'd be like, all right, now I know what I'm defending.

People definitely pay attention if it's happening here. I mean, you know, sometimes I think a lot of people that aren't that close to the military, they don't, whatever, they don't, it's a different world. It is. Oh, it's not here. I'm not worried about it. But yeah, I mean, it's weird, too, because we had such a terrible withdrawal from Afghanistan. And then now we're right back over and maybe getting into another one in Ukraine.

It's just like what? I don't know. When's enough? The politics or when did they say you could fight a night again, too, because that must have changed back, right? I don't remember it ever Yeah, I definitely changed back And I don't know when that change happened You know, and that but then

There'd just be other rules You know, that they would, or even the one my last deployment Which was you can't be any farther than 800 meters To the front line So Because you are support for the For the Iraqis Right

But it's like, well, how can we be most effective? That's, we need to be near the front line to be most effective to win. Right. And that was my thought. I was like, are we trying to win or are we trying to just stay here? And I was trying to win. And so I was like, we're going up and we're going to smash these assholes as best we can to get these Iraqis moving.

And it worked out. Yeah. We cleared Missou within the allotted amount of time. I mean, we weren't expected to either. I mean, that was just, we just cleared Western Missoule. And that's, I also think that was, and this is my tinfoil cap on because, yeah. But I think that's also one of the reasons that they came down on me so hard is like they,

you were, you were breaking the rules, these stupid rules that we can put on you so that the job wouldn't get done. God. How crazy is that? It's nuts. Yeah. I mean, it's, that must be super frustrating too. I'll tell you what, man.

Like, I am, it is, it is frustrating. It is frustrated, especially, I mean, it's frustrating now talking about just the politics and everything that's going on now. But I just try and live my life, you know, just for my family, set the example for them. And try not to let any of that stuff creep down. You know, it's, you can sit there all day and commiserate about all the goofiness that's going on in the world. But there's so much to be grateful for and there's so much opportunity out there. There's so many things that you can be doing. and that's what I try and spend my time doing is my main goal since especially when I was locked up was like to when I get out of this

my family is going to be my number one priority I you know I always try to prioritize I mean the seal teams always take priority yeah when you're in just because the nature of the job but when I was like when I get out that's it um and that's that's really my goal right now is I get to be home I get to you know I watched my daughter's graduation my my son going into high school I get to like go to his wrestling matches I watched my oldest son join the Marines I got to train him up for that I mean just be there for those pivotal moments in life and uh I'm with that I just try and I'm happy doing it you know uh I just try to keep that positive mindset and then also push myself constantly you know just like that's why I like your attitude I did your book was like when I was reading it it was like

speaking to me like I was like to this is this is like what goes on in my head but I can't put out into words you know yeah that kind of mindset I mean you live you've lived an incredible life and should be very proud I'm very honored to be sitting here talking about your experiences and learning from you and I don't know so much respect Eddie for what what you've done and what you stand for it's a it means a lot to me to have you here You know, in regard to enjoying life, you talked about you guys, you're going to be going to Austin, going to the mothership coming up, right? Big comedy fans. Is that right? Oh, yeah, dude. Huge. My wife and I, like, started that trend last year where we do, uh, once a month, we went on, like, a date

for the weekend and we go find a comedy, stand-up comedy show somewhere. And, uh, yeah, we, I mean, I've always been a huge stand-up comedy fan. And, uh, yeah, she, uh, surprised me three weeks ago. And was like, hey, I got tickets to, she knew I wanted, I was like, I want to go there. She's like, yeah, I got some VIP booth tickets. So, yeah, we're going to be going there next. It's either Monday or Tuesday, I can find out. But, yeah, I'm stoked. Oh, that's going to be.

Who's your favorite? You said, I think you said Bill Burr. Bill Burr, man. Yeah. It's like he's part of my family. It's just the way he describes his childhood and upbringing and just the attitude he has. Yeah, he's awesome. But I also, I mean, Shane Gillis is killing it now.

right now. He cracks me up every time. And I actually got to see Rogan and Chappelle in Vegas, which was awesome. And yeah, dude, Rogan, I like, Chappelle was the main thing, but dude, Rogan crushed everybody. I could not stop laughing. And then they had Tom Segura there. So, yeah, I don't know, man. There's something about comics, dude. I think they have, like, I know it's a hard profession and, like, you have to be skilled at it and work. But I'm like, dude, your job. like you get to say whatever you want and but you're speaking the truth a lot of the time but it's looked at as like I'm just I'm just josh and it's just joking around but it's like no but you really mean what you're saying yeah Joe Joe always has like you're learning during it somehow and then laughing at the same time but it's always like some I mean it's something that's going on yeah you know it's real life he talked about yeah I don't know I'm gonna ruin his bit but anyway

He's great But Shane I just love Shane's demeanor up there How he's kind of like He's just like his His demeanor Nobody could deliver it like him Nobody can act like him

His delivery is on point It's just crazy how good he is Tony Hitchcliff same way Yeah I'm hoping I get to see some of those guys there But we go Yeah Yeah I'm stoked for that one So well

Joe's built like this comedy You know It's like the universe right now The Mecca Oh it's a mecca Yeah for sure It's like so every and actually back there Ron White was there too when I was there which Ron White is hilarious.

Tater salad. Yeah, he was, I mean, he's a little bit different on the political spectrum than we might be. But he is hilarious. He is so funny up there. Oh man. God, I could just, I want to talk about their bits, but I can't. That's the whole premise to what they do. but yeah what some of those guys are going to be there when you're there and it's just

I hope so that'll make that'll make my well make my week next week dude coming here is made my month man oh getting to meet you dude and I love what you're doing I love that what you're doing to help you know help others and need like you know with your it's a pipe hitter's foundation is that that pipe hitter foundation yeah yeah yeah and I I love that it's like I don't know as veteran coming out helping others I don't I don't know. Whenever I see people doing good work like Jocko or you or, you know, I just had Rocco on here, he's trying to do what he can to influence veterans too. Who else do you see that's like helping the veteran community? Let's see. I mean, I think people help the veteran community in their different ways.

You know, I'm really good friends with like Sean Ryan, I think is doing a phenomenal job with his podcast and, you know, able to have people on and tell their stories in such like an intimate setting. Yeah. I mean, he does a really good job. And I think that that helps a lot of other veterans when they hear other guys get on there and talk about their being vulnerable and talking. their problems, but then how they're coping and getting through. You know, my friend Johnny Wilson, he just, I was telling you, he started that app to prevent veteran suicide with envy mind health. That's an app that it's like a loopstrap except it traps your, your mental health is what it tracks.

And so if you fall below a certain mental score, it alerts your buddy to call, like, hey, call this guy. That's amazing. It is. And, I mean, you know, my good friend, Andy Arabito, you know, half-faced blades. He's like one of my best friends. That guy gives, you know, he's very successful, but he gives back all the time. His knives are unbelievable. They're the best.

Yeah. They just look incredible. It's artwork. Yeah. They're fascinating, man. Yeah. I got to definitely link you up with him for sure. I follow the page.

I see the knives. It's amazing. But yeah, I mean, there's, and there's so many, like, here's the thing. There's so many nonprofits out there that are doing good work, you know, and that's what we try. We try and pair up with those nonprofits to be like, hey, let's work together and, you know, maybe they're doing something like getting veterans jobs. And so we're like, hey, we can, you know, the guys that we help when they're done, you can get them a job or, you know, preventing veteran suicide or mental health. Seal Future Foundation, that's, they were huge

for me when I got out. They got me the doctor we were talking about going to get my blood work down every three months making sure I'm getting back to 100% you know, hell. And I've felt great ever since. I think Jocko's doing a great job. You know, obviously it's freaking Jocko.

I know. Never doubt Jocko. Yeah, he's got a, I mean, he's got a gift. He's one of those people when he speaks. Everybody listens. He's got that commanding boy. he did when I was in he was he ran training but uh I think he's setting a good example you know and that's that's all it matters man I mean even in Gagins and I

know he gets tons of hate from everybody in our you know different forms I'm like hey dude the guy is an inspiration to people he's setting a good example he if he inspires people to be better I'm like I'm all about it man like if you are able to use your past experiences to inspire others to be better. I'm like, there's, there's no better thing you can be doing. Yeah. And as long as, you know, you're being transparent and truthful, I'm, I'm full support. Yeah, he's, he's all that for sure. Yeah. He tells it like it is. Well, that's great. And I, you know, last I just want to talk about your Patreon. You, you're doing, what do you, you, you got a podcast and a

Patreon page. Yeah. So, uh, I have, well, I have, podcast. shoot me straight. I do it with a buddy Dave Fields. He's the complete opposite of me, which I think it makes it really cool. But we both co-host together and yeah, we put out an interview once a week and it's the same where we just have on and we there's no agenda. We just like having people on telling their stories and same premise like you everybody has a story. We try and pull that out of them and then have they've overcame adversity and whatever else to hopefully help others that listen. And then I also have a Patreon where, yeah, I'm able.

So I also do shooting instruction. You know, I think that's a blessing as well. I had some buddies that opened up a range 15 minutes from my house. It's a stronghold soft solutions. It's a massive playground. We have a two-story live fire killhouse, five different massive ranges. So I'm able to go there and teach DOD or civilians.

tactics, shooting, begin. I really do love teaching beginners that have never shot before because it's just, I love watching them get comfortable with the gun and then getting better with it. And I tell everybody if you have a gun,

then you should go train with it and get comfortable with it because if not, then you just have a piece of metal sitting there that you don't know how to use. So I'm able to do that. And I also do that, the Patreon, I put on classes on there

as well just in case people can't come make it to my classes at the range you know I'll put classes on there but I also have talks on there about mental health and again I'm not a mental health expert but I can talk about my experiences and what I've been through and how I've gotten through them and just the mindset that I have and I also have a FAAFO mentality on there where I get to talk to people that I find inspiring and just sort of have them talk about their mindset and how they go through life. And hopefully, you know, it just helps people that are subscribing. But yeah, I also, you know, I have our website, the eddy Gallagher.com.

It's what I have sell the FAFO merch. The big thing, I have FAFO and seek battle. That's the two brands. You know, FAFO, we explain seek battle. It's the same premises, I think, keep hammering. Like it's, you know, you should be daily seeking battle, seeking discomfort in some form fashion. That's what makes you a better person and also life is not fair and if you do not seek battle in some form or fashion on a daily basis, it will find you eventually and you will not be

prepared. So I think that's the kind of mindset that I try and set, not just for the people that follow me, but mainly for my family, for my kids. Yeah, I love it. Well, as I said, thank you for coming out to Oregon. And for those listening, don't Google Eddie Gallagher. Just read the book, Man in the Arena. I appreciate that, man. I mean, one thing about the book, too, is when I tell everybody this, I realize this is my side of the story. But there's QR codes in there. As you're reading along, it has everything. All the evidence they had against me, all the interviews from everybody. I mean, it's all in there. And you can make your own decision at the end the book and I did that for that specific purpose.

You know, there's a reason that book is banned in every military base because that has the truth in it. And it's, I told my wife this and it's actually my publisher as well. I'm like, I truly believe this is one of those books that's going to get read more over time, especially I think people's eyes are sort of waking up to just how corrupt the government can be. I think when I put this book out, people were still like, I think people can see now. And I recommend people reading this book because it's a play-by-play on exactly how the government, their acts and their game plan if they want to target you. But it's also a way to combat

them. Yeah. Yeah. And also one of my goals this year is I sort of want to get that made into a movie. I think it would be one hell of a movie or series. So Tyler Sheridan, you're out there? Yeah. Oh, he's definitely listening. Yeah. Yeah, Tyler. I love all your work, brother.

No, not Tyler, Taylor, right? Is it Taylor Sheridan? Okay, Taylor. My bad, dude. Love your work. This would be a great movie. But, yeah, I learned a lot from this book. And to your point, yeah, I mean, you know, hey, you can make your own decision,

I guess, once you read it and you can read it. and you can read the, go on the QR codes and see what your conclusions are, but I know what mine are. And yeah, great book. I learned a lot. Again, thank you, Eddie. I appreciate you. Thank you, Cam. Appreciate you, brother.

It's been an honor. Thank you. Keep hammering.