Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 062 - The Oscars, Ups & Downs of Ultras, Goggins and Bob Hanes

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

Join us for a discussion with Cam Hanes and James G. Williams. They’ll be talking about David Goggins, running marathons (struggles, goals and successes) and Cam’s dad, Bob Hanes. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow James: https://www.instagram.com/james_g_williams Thank you to our sponsors: Blokes: https://blokes.com/cam use code CAM for 20% off labs Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv  Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/  Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Who is James G. Williams? 0:05:54 How Cam Met David Goggins 0:12:03 Lifting with David Goggins 0:18:43 Cam’s Fastest Marathon 0:22:06 Cam’s Worst Races 0:27:58 Future Race Goals 0:31:34 The Struggles of Ultras & Running with Taylor Spike 0:36:35 Mental VS Physical Challenges of Ultra Marathons 0:43:31 Running to School at a Young Age 0:45:44 Lessons From Cam’s Dad, Bob 0:50:07 Articles on Bob Hanes 0:54:20 Keeping Bob’s Legacy Alive 0:57:25 Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right, this is a Keep Hammering Collective. As you know, I'm Cam Haines, but also here with me is James G. Williams.

Your better choice, I guess, wouldn't get on today. So here I am. Who, Tanner? Yeah. Yeah, I know. So sent me some ideas for a solo podcast, and I said, I'm going to need somebody to volley these questions back and forth. And I said, since Tanner won't do it, that means you, James. So here I am. So we'll see how I do.

And let's get the backstory. You're, so you work for me full time. You moved from Bozeman, Montana. Yeah, yeah, just moved out here like a month ago. And what's, I mean, I think everybody's been wondering, And what does the G stand for? Greg. Oh, man.

That is so unique. That is not my middle name, but I think we'll leave it at that. It's not Greg? Yeah. Gagg? Gideon. Gideon? Yeah.

Seriously? Uh-huh. Isn't that from like a movie or something, The Hobbit or? Yeah. My parents were huge. Hobbit fans? Not a great start to this podcast, I'll say. Oh, man.

Go ahead, finish your thought. I don't think I had to finish stuff. Okay. All right. No, I think my brother picked my name, and I guess he chose Gideon, so. So is that how it's done nowadays? The new generation, is the siblings pick the names? Yeah, yeah.

That's cool. It's empowering. I would have, my younger brother picked my name. So that makes it. That makes it tougher. So he had no name for a while. Yeah. I mean, if my, yeah, if my siblings would have picked my name, it would have been like, idiot.

So. I think that was his second choice. Yeah. Well. Yeah. Okay. So James Gideon Williams. Yeah.

That's me. And I was wondering yesterday. No. Was I wondering. Yesterday? No. But I was wondering just in general, your work is like so good, so well done, and it doesn't get hardly any likes. Why is that? I mean, if I do a selfie, it'll crush your, like, edited, everything. How come? Well, I mean, we know the answer to that. Obviously, I don't know what I'm doing and you're 10 times better than I am. So right. Okay. Yeah. That's what I was.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's why this should be an internship, like an unpaid internship. It feels like. You're giving me experience. And showing you how filters work. Exactly. Yeah, I love when you put filters on my photos. Yeah.

It just takes them up that next notch. Exactly. So hopefully over time you'll be able to learn those tactics too. Slowly I'm learning. Yeah. Well, also Al Pacino at the Oscars. He he that was a big mistake you didn't see it you heard about it second I heard yeah I was watching it live live that's pretty bad yeah and I'm like you know whatever he's used to be cool now he's

just old like me like me except I never used to be cool I'm but now I'm just old but uh he gets up there and I don't even know he's like kind of mumbling around and he reads the winner of the best movie the the oscar the oscar no build up no like here's the other nominees Does that seem good? Is that why you guys watched Oppenheimer last night? I think we're going to anyway, but then that just solidified it just because they won every award.

Yeah, I don't know. It always seems like there's a, at least he didn't call the wrong winner. No, no, that's true. Pretty bad. No. Yeah, I wanted, even though I hadn't seen Oppenheimer, I wanted, I like, is it Killian, right?

Yeah. I like Killian Murphy. He's good. I'm a Killian Dick Rider. That means a fan. He's in pecky blinders, isn't he? Of course. What? I haven't seen peeky blinders.

Yeah. No, that's a great show. I love that show. I've watched it all every episode and then started back over. Just in case I miss something. A lot of free time. Yeah, a lot of being retired, you know. So all I do is pretty much watch TV.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so that's like the updates. That's kind of the, we'll get everybody up to speed. on why you're sitting here. The last, first and last time. Yeah. I mean, we thought about using AI,

and I was hoping Margot Robbie could be asking me the questions. You know, if we can do some voice filter, is there that? We could probably. I mean, I do a pretty good impression. I mean, you don't sound too dissimilar to her already. I don't look too dissimilar to her either, so. Yeah. So that's good.

But anyway, so you're the voice in the shadows, except you're on camera. Hopefully not too much. Yeah. And now we'll, what's your thoughts for this solo podcast? I mean, and I've told you this before, but when I was like 12 or 13, the reason I got into bow hunting is because my dad got your backcountry bow hunting book. And, you know, it was the one that came with the CD.

And so we watched the whole thing a bunch of times. And I think I told you that when we met in Hawaii the first time. Yeah. When you published your book, of course. you know we had worked together a little bit and i'd listened to it and just came up with questions that maybe people thought the same about or um might be interested in hearing your your side of the story on so yeah i mean i'd like to kind of hear the story between you and guggins how you met your first workout and what you had heard about him before and and what that was like yeah uh that's

been a very popular video obviously that was sort of like the first lift run shoot shoot, but it wasn't called technically like the series now lift run shoot. And Travis Thompson here in town, he filmed him and his buddy. He has a company called Elevation O.M. And so I was just like, I needed somebody to capture just the experience of having Goggins here because everybody knows or now knows, but even back then, I'm sure most people knew he was just this badass, ex-Navy seal. he had you know very accomplished ultra runner held the world record and pull up so it's like this larger

than life type figure been on rogan right i think right before he came here he was on rogan and joe said something like you know you guys you're going to run together you're going to go see cam i heard just make sure that you have a time limit or a distance limit so you guys don't kill each other and it was it was you know obviously a joke i don't want to get into a run to the death with goggins he gets in a zone he like i guess it's sort of like david he's just in hey david how's it going want a coffee or a gawkins which is like you throw them raw meat so there's two different types and i i saw that firsthand when he came here without knowing what to expect my first what i normally do is take people to the hill and it's like i'm not good at my

but I've run the hill a lot, right? And so we start going up the backside, did a little, I said, you know, I can usually tell pretty quick how good a runner somebody is, just like maybe in a few hundred yards. You know, it's like if you see somebody who's never played basketball trying to play basketball, it doesn't take very long, right? And you can tell how good they are. But anyway, so same with running.

So we take off and I'm like, God dang, he's got a pretty long, stride and um he was at this time living i think in nashville so i'm like oh good he there's no hills in nashville he's you know this is going to be the equalizer so then we started going up the back power lines there and his stride didn't seem like it got any shorter normally when you go uphill he shorten up your stride right because you try to eat up the same amount of ground and the same stride going uphill you're going to gas out well his stride seemed very similar to on the flat which i thought was pretty excessive and uh again given i'm like four three so when you my stride is a lot shorter but um we started going up the hill and he is not fading and i'm like dang this is going to be

rough. So we finished that run. He was great. He, you know, he comes off as this, uh, just the biggest badass ever, which he is, but he's like just, just kind of stoic. Um, but fine, you know, cool to hang out with not, you know, not like a ton of jokes. Yeah. And stuff like that. Which is whatever, hey, this is serious shit. It's, it's fun to train with somebody who's going to push so I get it. And we did that run, did a video up on top. I don't think he jumped up on the monument. I got some old footage from that day still.

But then we ended up going and we lifted that night. And this was kind of like the preemptive strike to our big day, the next day. This was a Friday, Saturday. We had a big day planned. It was an ultramarathon in the morning. So 50K turned out being like 34 miles. Then we were going to shoot bows, get him to the bow rack, then out to Waynes. And then we're going to lift weights and then watch UFC.

It seemed like a pretty good day. Pretty good day. Yeah. So that was the first day. We just did the run-up Piscka, like a warm-up. We were joked that, you know, most people taper before an ultra. Now we're going hard, and then we lift it hard. So that was the first day.

Any questions? No, no questions at all. Did you, so you and him just got connected through Joe. That's how you guys first met? Or how did that come about? I don't know. I think it was just, I can't remember sliding in DMs, maybe. So who slid into whose DMs?

I don't want to say he slid into mine because then if I'm wrong, he'll want to kill me. But I can't remember. I think it was just probably like, you know, just, hey, you know, you're badass, whatever type. You know, or just commenting on something. I mean, he doesn't comment on anything. So it must have been me commenting. Me, I was a thirsty follower or whatever they call that. So, yeah, I'm not really sure.

I think we just kind of knew of each other and then just set up the visit here. and then he went on Joe's right before that. Okay. So I'm sure people want to know when's the next Gagins-Hains' workout. You know? No, but I did see him. I went to his house down there in Vegas

has down there for a fight. And so I went over to his house. And at that time, I think that was in January or December. Maybe it was December. But at that time, he had something going on with his leg or his knee. And so once he got 100% healthy,

He's still running, but it's like, you know, you can go through the motions when you're banged up. Right. But that's not the same as actually pushing hard and getting better. So I think he said like in a couple months he'd be good to go. So that's like where I just checked my watch. It's a couple months from then to now. So that was it. But yeah, that first one, that was the one where we did the ultra and then the whatever.

but the part that gets so much play is after we did this hundreds and hundreds of reps, burnout, super sets, all this crazy shit after running the ultramarathon and shooting the bow and lifting the day before and running them out the day before, after all that, then we were going to do a burnout set. Not a burnout set. It was we're going to do 100 reps supersetted with, so incline, 95 pounds. That's the one thing that catch people off guard. It popped into my feed the other day.

Yeah. There were so many comments like, it's only 95 pounds. Exactly. Yeah. I know. I know. So it's context, people, context. But there is no context on quick clips, right?

So point is we had done probably 600 reps before that. And then for that workout, we're, for that little last section, we were doing, I know, curls. So I think 100 curls or no, maybe like just sets of 20 curls. And then you went to do as many as you could on inclined bench with 95 pounds per set to get to 100 reps, right? And then we did something else in between. I think it might have been skull crusher. So those are the three movements.

Inclined bench, skull crushers, curls. And we were rotating. True. It was working out with us too. And Eric McCormick, my trainer who used to live here and come and train me here, now he lives in Arizona. He was running us through this workout. So he was the one behind David or behind Gagons at this time. He had switched to Gaggans because this is like got pretty serious.

He was behind him. And it was funny because the first set of that, I think Gaggans did like 20 reps. I did like maybe 23. And I think Trude did 25. So Gagons got the least amount of us, right? And after that, and you'd think, oh, well, you know, nobody gets stronger when they're fatigued. But after that set, he was like, you know, that didn't feel good that me and Truit had done more on that first one. The next ones, he just crushed.

And then at the last one, he was like, I think I probably did, man, maybe I could only do 15, maybe 13. I can't remember now. But all I know is he were, most people would get fatigued. switched that Goggins mode. And he did, you know, I think with Eric counting that one where he says, who's going to carry the boats? She's going to carry the logs and all this shit. I think he did like 25 at least.

And that was the last set for the 100. And so where we were fading, he was getting stronger. And that's what I tell people. It's like, it was the race was the same thing. Through 22 miles, he, you know, we were running together. And then something happened with his shoe and his foot or something like that. He had to stop and I said, well, me and Taylor, my brother, we just continue on and just catch up.

And normally, if that happens in a race, people are having issues, you never see him again. You know, I mean, there's a reason they stops. They're having something's going wrong. And but not with him. Sure's anything he caught up passed me, ended up beating me and was just like in that where most people would be fatigued, he got stronger.

And he was up at the top yelling at nobody was, no shirt on and I was just like holy shit this is this guy's different this isn't like you know this isn't you never know it's social media is this real or is this what an act and that was like this guy is as real as it gets so people they love taking I don't know anybody who's successful or well known people can take shots out of him and I see some people do but man he he he is a badass everything he's he says or duh or he's going to do he follows so through on and just tough. I mean, ran, I think he had a world record, ran 100 mile races,

eight weekends in a row, had the pull-up world record. I think he's had, you know, I think three world records. So it's like, you can say whatever you want. Fucking Gawkins is a man. Tough to deny that. Yeah. But hopefully we can put together a pretty cool film in the next workout. I know.

Oh, my God. It was, I mean, it, we've had a couple different ones. I went to Vegas one other time when we filmed. We did a 20-mile run. I talked about that in my book. And it's a little bit, you know, I like going on runs by myself because I can, hey, if I get tired, I just walk. You know, nobody knows, no harm, no foul.

If I feel good, I run fast. If I plan on running 10 and I run two and want to quit, I just quit. So it's like, I also. have to be ready for when he shows up because it's like it's like getting ready for the olympics it's like it's not it's not the olympics but it's feels just as serious the senior olympics oh my yeah for me for yeah i mean he is i think he's 49 now but fucking there's some tough old guys out there and i don't know if you want to call him old or not but yeah he's as tough as they come but i'm i'm really i mean i'm a huge goggins fan huge goggins fan love

him, love training with them, love how he cares himself and how he deals with criticism. He's the man. So, yeah, it's going to be a huge honor when he comes back. And hopefully I'll be in shape as well, because if not, I'll be dead. Yeah, I've never met him, haven't gotten to, we haven't shot with him since I've been here. So, well, I guess kind of on that same train of thought along with ultras and everything. I mean, I'd love to hear more of the backstory on some of your hardest ultra. was your fastest times.

I mean, the other day, when Aaron Rogers was here, you were telling the story about Lance, and he were talking about how Lance came up and asked you what pace you were running. And you were saying, oh, I'm probably about a 250. And that's, I mean, sub three is fast, so it got my head turning. What's your fastest marathon time?

Fastest was pretty close to that, what I ran in Boston. So to run a 250, you're running 630 miles. Yeah. And I got a little bit faster. or in New York. But it was 250 also. Oh, okay.

So different seconds, like 21 seconds in New York, 42 or something at Boston. And neither one of those courses are considered fast. So I'm out, I've never been able to touch the 240s, but it's like I've done 250 in two different races that aren't considered fast. So it's like, maybe I was in shape for it. That was when I ran with Lance, I was 40. He was 37. So 16 years ago now.

I mean, normally you're not getting any faster. So you're not trying to break that on your next one? God, I would love to get in the 240s that someday, someday. But I don't know, cut out some carbs, lose some weight. I don't know, get some Botox. Tanner's going carb-free now. I know. He's like about three hours in right now.

So it's so hard. I mean, I've been. trying to limit the carbs because it is crazy. You cut out carbs, you drop fat almost immediately. It's not immediate, unfortunate. Unfortunately, it's not three hours in, but if you can keep, like what I was doing was carbs in the morning for fuel, so I'd have been able to run, and then no carbs afternoon night. And I was losing, you know, just doing that, you lose fat. So it's, yeah, anyway, I won't talk about diet now. But as far as running goes, let me. think. So that was, yeah, I want to be, I want to get 240 at some time. I think I'm going to do the

Eugene Marathon, but to be honest, I never run fast. I mean, anytime I run with any of these good runners around here, I'm always like, what's our pace? And I never wear a watch. So I never really know, like sometimes when I get to a race, I never know what pace I'm running until the first mile and there's a clock there. So I'm like, okay, this is what I'm running. And, And so, yes, mostly by feel. But for Eugene, I'm planning on running Eugene, and I'll be hopefully under three. That's always the goal. So I think to break three, you got to run six, 44s, which I think I can do.

I had me and Ken Wright out the other day. He said, we were running, I thought he said under sixes for a while. But anyway, so I know my body can do it for a little bit. So we'll continue on with that. and hopefully it carries over to Eugene. But yeah, I mean, the good thing about ultras is you're never running that fast. It's mostly just grind it out. That's why it's good for old people.

Right. So, I mean, I know it's happened to a lot of people, some of the greatest. But have you, you know, taken a wrong turn or fucked up pretty bad in an ultramarathon? Yeah. Yeah, there's some tough ones. you know it's one time i was running up in portland forest park up there and it's like there's like there's a lot of homeless people because poor one's so good and our government's so good and they they love to cater to uh whatever um just kind of support homeless people taking over everywhere

so anyway there's people living in the park that moved they had the course flagged and so you'd get to a junction on the trail and normally at a junction they'll have a couple ribbons there hanging and you know okay got to go this way so me and this guy Hal corner he's one western twice super fast we were running together and um he uh we i can't even remember but we just ended up bombing down this hill because that's where the ribbons took us and so there's a couple ribbons right at the junction going downhill so we go bomb down hill and then we hadn't seen a ribbon in a while So we get down at least a mile, maybe a mile and a half. There have been nobody on this trail.

And it's just ending in the bottom of this big draw. And we realized that at that time, somebody moved the ribbon, just didn't want runners there. We're mad, thought it was theirs, whatever. So we start hiking all the way back up and see people going up the ridge. Like now we're in 30th place. We were leading. So we catch up all, catch all of,

way up past all these people again it happens in another place and uh i ended up backtracking going back and continuing on i ended up getting fourth he ended up dropping he was just so frustrated because an ultra is it's hard anyway you don't we you don't want to run an extra step if you can avoid it right and so here we've done extra miles just to run what everybody else is running and yeah it was frustrating but uh yeah got fourth in that And then there's been times like, like on my first 200, the Bigfoot 200, Candace Burt puts those races on. I think she does three different 200s.

And over 200 miles in the wilderness or in the National Forest, you can't be put in ribbons every 10 feet, right? So in a race like that, you might not see a ribbon for half mile, maybe. and I remember running multiple times there just like you stay on the trail and you're and you're like okay I just unless I missed something I didn't I haven't seen a ribbon in a while but it should still be on this trail but you never really know so you're kind of running and you're kind of tentative and then it's hard because you got to get in a groove so those 200 miles eventually click off without thinking about every step so you want to kind of zone out but you can't zone out because you have to

pay attention to the course. So that was a challenge. It was like, I remember a backtrack a few times there, then would go back and like, no, I'm on the right place. Anyway, it's just a whole different part of, I think a lot of people get in those races and they zone out and then they ended up taking like a wrong trail and then there are miles down there.

And there's no other, in the middle of the night, over a course of 200 miles, when you're in the mountains, you're by yourself. If you went a couple of miles off the course, you're already by yourself because there's 200 miles for like 150 runners to get spread out. But then when you're off the course, it's like, you know, there's been,

had to be rescues and different things like that. It's a big part. It's not quite like Barclay Marathon is where they don't have it marked and you have to make your own map. It's not quite like that, but it's not definitely not like a road marathon that you know exactly where you're going but uh yeah i mean with ultras that's always part of the equation it seems like so we were watching that documentary the other night um what was that called on that ultra it's like a last man standing thing oh yeah yeah

yeah so and you know we were kind of talking about films and videos we could do so do you have your eyes on any in the future or films no ultras oh ultras oh um god yeah i mean you know you never you always think you're in shape but then when you're in a race you always push more so it's like you have to have to do those i mean there's a couple local ones i know i'll do but the you know i'm sure you're talking about the big ones um any i think i mean yeah i think people just want to hear what you're kind of looking forward to. I don't know. I'm always like,

never really know if I'm in good shape until I do a race. So when I do Eugene Marathon, or like there's a 50K here I usually do, it's called, what is that called? Frozen, no, not Frozen Trail. Shotgun Trail blast.

Yeah, it's another 50K. I got second last year. My brother won. Usually I do that. So after I do a couple of those, kind of shorter marathons, then I'll be like, okay, we'll see if I struggle and it's terrible, then I'm like, you know, make up some, oh, I got to go to hunt. I can't, I would do that race, but I'm not going to be around.

So, yeah, it's, it's, I never really know. I mean, I try to put in miles. I try to get in, you know, 10 miles a day, 70 miles a week, good base, build that up. If I'm doing a 200, want to be, you know, definitely over 100 miles a week. And so this time of year, that's just kind of like the building phase and then we'll see what happens. Where I, you know, I enjoy, I don't know. I like racing. I like competing.

They're so painful. It really sucks. But I almost enjoy like big adventures like Courtney and I have done. And when she came here, we did 100K here. So we ran 62 or 63 miles. that day when me and Goggins get together. But Courtney and I have run, you know, that day we did 60 some. We've run 60 some miles before.

We ran 47 in the Grand Canyon. So to me, I got to gear up just to train with her. So that's like, you know, that's my big goal. Like just make it to her I'm not, you know, she's not waiting for me. And that's, if I can do that, then I'm like, okay, I'm in she. if I could make her get half of a half-ass workout. But yeah, I mean, as far as races, you know, Cocodono, 250 is kind of, I've never done that.

They said I could run that one. But that's early in the year. Yeah. And I got to be ready for that. So we'll see. I mean, I got some good ultra stories, though, if you want. Yeah. Let's talk about them.

I mean, why not? Oh, man. It's supposed to make you smart. I said it makes you smart. I listened. I don't know what I was listening to, but when the ad reads I did, I mentioned I'm not Andrew Huberman. And this doesn't make me him either.

But it might make me less of a whatever. Seem less challenged. Yeah. One thing that stands out to me in Ultras is, you know, and this is hard to think about all the time but i remember at that first 200 my brother was pacing me taylor taylor spike you know great runner super tough wins races this got third at tahoe twice the toahoe 200s got third twice he ran uh corin got she got beat there once um sky beat her she still ran a good race but got beat and then taylor got third so he was quite a ways back from them but still third that's a big

It's a big deal. It's a big deal. So anyway, he's a good runner. But I remember my first 200, I was a little bit ahead of him on the hundreds, 200s, ultras. He came, you know, after I started. But we were 130 miles in, middle of the night. Kind of, I think it was pissing rain, could have been snow mixed in because we were pretty high.

And, you know, headlamp, when it's cloudy in your, you're in the mounds. If you turn your headlamp off, it is like you're in, you're inside a closet. I mean, it is so freaking dark, right? Are you trying to say I wouldn't know what that's like? No, I mean, you're out of the closet, obviously. But, uh, uh, and God bless you. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not just going to support you. So it's fine. I walked myself into that. That way. Hey, I said give me some meatballs today. So yeah, I saw that coach. It was, you know, teed it up for it.

Yeah, I got the hips into it and set that over the fence. But anyway, so it was like pitch black, dark, pissing rain, 130 miles in. So obviously you're kind of fatigued. And I remember stopping there and saying, you know, looking at them going, how lucky are we to be right here, right? This is why we do it. We do stuff like this to be in the middle of the night, 130 miles in and still pushing. That is not very many people do that or have to.

I mean, so I told them, I said, we got to feel lucky. This is, it doesn't get any better than this. It's like we're, we're very few people would be and we're there and we're still not, we're not wallowing in our misery, still upright, good attitudes and pushing. And I'll never forget that moment. It was, yeah, it's hard to. to think about that sometimes or it's hard to recapture that type of those feelings but you know because you go on your little run and you're like you know want to do a five mile run and get a what a sideache

at three miles and you walk home and uh so you need to have those little wins and remember those like god i have done hard things i i know i can do it i'm being a pussy right now on this run but so it's It's nice having those little wins, but I always, I remember, you know, and there's another one in Moab. We were both doing the Moab 240. He, uh, we were kind of arguing about something because it happens. People get pissed off at each other when you're fatigued, right? And, uh, I ended up, I just, I don't know, I just took off. And I'm like, well, whatever. If he gets his shit squared away, he'll catch up. And, uh, yeah. So, I mean, it was my. miles and hours.

And then I think finally we caught back up together and went back together. But there's always these ups and downs. But all I know is that, you know, your brother, you have a little bit more of a connection. But we've had those ups and downs and still love racing and training. And, you know, he paced me at not Big Horn. It was a crazy mountain, 100, which is in the crazies there in Montana. which I think that you know that country. And we've just had just so many like, I don't know,

it just seems like those are the memories that matter. And we've had shared a lot of them in the mountains and doing hard things. And when I think about ultras, I always think about my brother Taylor and then things we've experienced. And I don't, it's hardly ever the finish line that I think about. It's always the challenges during the race. Right. The finish is, it's kind of like, you know, I look at these kills and I think about, you know, that worked out.

I got that bull killed, but I don't even, it's not the kill that I think about. It's the hunt and how. So it's just weird how people think you are obsessed or consumed with the result, but it's not the result. It's the journey. And it sounds cliche, but it's true. I mean. Yeah. So on these 200.

140 mile ultra marathons, you know, obviously there's a point where it becomes physically the hardest and a point where it becomes mentally the hardest. Do those usually coincide with each other or do they happen at different times and which one's harder? Yeah, no, it's like whatever challenge you can come, can envision facing you usually do. And it's, and they're both like seem at times seem insurmountable. And then, I mean, I've told this story before. I remember on, I think on let's run.com, they're ripping me apart for, you know, saying I was lying about something, but whatever. Maybe I was. I don't have a watch. But there's times when, you know, it's like you can barely get a mile done in 20 minutes. It is just, you know, I remember being at that first 200, the Bigfoot,

and I was with these guys that did it before. And we had a 10 mile. section hard section 5,000 foot of gain it was you know 100 degrees during the day that storm I can't remember for it before after the storm that went through that that one night I was talking about but anyway point is is we had is the latter half of the race maybe I think it was the morning after that night I just explained what we're 130 miles so it might have been like 160 miles and we had this 20 mile section and they said uh you know make sure you got plenty of water we're getting and geared up at this aid station to take off in this next little segment. And I said,

I said, what are you figuring for time on this, you know, for these 10 miles? And he's just like, you know, just figure two miles an hour. And if you can beat that, that's good. And I was just like, I mean, two miles an hour, right? It's not fast. No. And so there's times where you can, if you can do it, that's a 30-minute mile. So there's times when a 30-minute mile is hard.

And then same race, at the end of that race, Taylor was pacing me. And I was running so well, I changed my shoes, feet were a mess, but I was running so well. He said, I don't know if I can keep up. And he hadn't been running the whole race. He was just pacing me in these different sections at night than this last section. And he said he didn't know. And I was running like six-something minute. And so there's there's time and that's not the time where the less run people, but I did another time where in the

Moab 240 where I said I ran like seven minute miles for the stretch and I mean was slightly downhill Taylor was again behind me. He would verify this, but the point is it's like whether six minute miles within a big foot or seven minute miles of Moab there's times when it didn't seem like you can take another step to where now of a sudden you're running good and fluid same body right same mind same what so why why are you wallowing in misery in one section and then you know I wouldn't say running like no issue but when you can open up and run again that's a special feeling and so I've had that up and down and it's like I think

I think the mind is what controls all that because with an altar there's three things that matter it's fuel so are you getting calories it's hydration are you staying hydrated

and salt if you got calories water and salt your body can go a long way it's your mind that'll that'll fuck you up. But if you keep giving yourself all those things, eventually your mind will go through and whatever peaks and valleys you got to get to, the mind will get you there if you keep pushing.

But a lot of people get to that valley and then they quit and then they throw in the towel. And they never knew that, hey, there was a peak coming. You were going to be flying, feeling great. And the miles were going to be coming way easier than they are now. So as long as you're about your answer to question, as long as you're, giving your body what it needs and those three things that I talked about. And another thing is your feet because your feet can be a mess. I mean, but it's weird too because there's people who will quit because of a blister. And then in that, again, in that first Bigfoot 200, I'll remember this, you know,

till my dying day, but we're there at the last aid station. I think we had about maybe 20 or no, I think the last aid station was 13 miles, but maybe at the 20 mile mark left in the race. There's this woman and she took off her shoes and her socks and her bottom of her foot had a big crack in it like down lengthways down her foot, a big gaping crack. Had like trench foot just from getting wet and then dry and then, you know, being wet the whole time. And so you look at that and I'd be like, okay, not many people would finish the race.

But she did. I think she won the women's. No kidding. Yeah. So it's weird. A blister on somebody's pinky toe can take them out. But this woman had a crack down her foot and is, hey, it's good to go. So it's crazy what our minds can do.

But again, giving your body what it needs, you ride out those valleys and, man, it's incredible to fight some people have. And it's like, if you're listening to this and you think, well, that's not me, I wouldn't be so sure. I think a lot of people have some big fight in them and they just never really tap into it. But you take on huge challenges where it's like, am I going to quit or am I going to push? And then you push, then all of a sudden you start feeling better, then that gives you confidence. And then the next time you're like, oh, I've been here before. I push through and it was fine. So then you just keep building on those.

And then your confidence, you know, skyrockets. So it's, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, a lot, it's a roller coaster. The ultra is just like anything that's worthwhile, any hunt, anything that we face in life that's, you know, meaningful. There's going to be ups and downs. And ultras are just like kind of that, you know, it's like life's challenges in just a short period of time, like two or three days. and it's just like this is how life works ups and downs push through get to the finish line celebrate but yeah it's it's tough sometimes in that moment yeah so in your book you talk about you know being a five-year-old running to school yeah did taylor always run from a young age as well or no he he uh

what did he do god i was old no i'm 10 years older than him so he was seven and you know i i i never lived at home after I was 17. So it's removed out when I was 17. So I was like not around at all. And he did like motocross, probably soccer. I don't know. I wasn't around. So I don't even know what the hell he did.

I would come and pick him up and take him. If I had a big buck spotted, I was bow hunting, but I'd always be out looking. If I had a big buck spotted, I'd go find him wherever he was, pull him out of school one time and take him up there. and he killed some bucks doing that. But other than that, I was like, not existing. So where did that inspiration come from when you were so young to run to school? To run?

Yeah. I know, probably pain, you know? I mean, my, you know, my mom and dad got divorced and I probably wanted, I don't know, wanted my dad to, I don't know, pay a 10. I don't know if I want to say pay attention, but I just wanted to be acknowledged maybe for doing something that other kids weren't doing, which I did get acknowledged for that because I was like a complete little fuck up in class. And so I was on red light, green light, which means every day I'd either get a piece of red paper, like a construction paper or a piece of green construction paper. And so if it was a bad day, it was a red light, good day green light, and I'd have to bring that home. and that would be how it was.

So I was like, I don't know, just, I don't know, I think I just ran. I just knew my dad, you know, was an athlete, and he cared about that. So I was five in the first grade and just wanted to, yeah, I don't know, get some approval probably is why I started. And, I mean, you said your dad's an athlete.

I know he was a runner and somewhat of a legend around here. Where does that all start? Uh, well, see, I don't know how it started maybe the same sort of circumstance for him. I mean, he, I think he was just always an athlete, always around, but his, his dad got killed when he was three. So his dad got shot up in Seattle. And, uh, you know, so he didn't have a dad around. So it was my grandma, Aloys, which was his mom. Uh, she was a school teacher.

She raised him. And I think she was, you know, probably had them in sports. Just that's what, you know, moms do. Because it's like these boys have so much energy and they, you know, it's hard for a woman to raise a young man on their own. And so he was always at the track, always very gifted athletically, you know, good jumper, good Walter, very good gymnastics. And so he ended up, you know, going through junior Olympics. won all sorts of stuff there and uh yeah i mean you know eugene has always been it's you know the track capital of the world basically said it's always been that or not always but i mean for a long

50 years for sure 60 years and um so he was just immersed in that track scene from a kid all the way up until when he died you know he coached track for many many many years but uh yeah so that was just just what did he he he got a full right scholarship at oregon for gymnastics and then uh that didn't work out you know whatever had you know it's just tough it's tough for a young man with the family i was born he was married you know whatever so ended up having gone to oregon state after oregon on a track scholarship and then you know that didn't work out either so he got into coaching after after a while and then was able to pour himself into that and really had made a big impact on you know a bunch of kids in the area uh taught him how to to win state championships so that was good so um you know what what

lessons or things you you want to do like him or don't want to do like him do you still use to this day um man he just you know he loved helping people What I remember is I don't remember a ton from when I was a kid. You know, like I said, they were divorced and my stepdad was around. And so it was like a kind of a weird situation. But what I remember about him mostly is when he was coaching at South and how much he loved those kids and how much he cared about helping the kids. Charlie and Lindsay Beard were two that he talked about all the time.

And I think they both won state championships at South and the Polvold. And, you know, that was with his coaching. So he, you know, just having a positive impact on kids is, or just people in general, because everybody mentions or everybody knows, I don't know, coach Haynes, coach Bob. Some people would call him Beach Boy Bob because he left the Beach Boys. And he was just like this music, aficionado. And he, you know, I think it's just like passion and just, just he, he wouldn't know how to be fake.

It was always, he was just always real with people and genuine and cared. And so if I can take anything from him, it would be that. It would be, you know, have an impact on people, let them know you care and you love them. And, you know, I don't know. That's, you know, when I think of my dad, that's what I think of. I think him and his, you know, coaching windbreaker from purple windbreaker from South and his axeman track hat and, you know, always wore shorts. And I was like, yeah, he was just, that's just what he did, had a whistle.

And I think I'd probably stopwatch or something like that. But, yeah, I was looking at, before we started talking about this, I was looking at, There's an old, old article, and this is written by Kip Leonard, who went to South also. He was, I think, like a federal judge here in town for a long time. But he wrote this about my dad back in, I don't know when this was, probably late 60s. But it says a new era in track and field is upon the world, everywhere goals once thought to be impossible to achieve or being surpassed such accomplishments are the four minute mile, seven foot high jump. up 17 foot pole vault and most recently the 70 foot shot putt. High school track marks also thought to be out of reach are following by the wayside

as better trained athletes move in, such as a case with junior pole vault or Bob Haynes. So this is when he's a junior at South. He says this spring he cleared eight inches over the old school record and surpass the state record by one quarter of an inch. Although, yeah, I'll see. Bob is very consistent will be a strong contender for the state title, the wiry athlete, attribute months of his success to gymnastics, a sport in which he plays second floor exercise and this year's state meet.

Gymnastics is a great help. Bob comments such events as a trampoline and work on the apparatus develops body control and all the work builds up strength, which is essential to vaulting. So, yeah, then it continues on here. It was not until the summer of his seventh grade year that Bob took up pole vaulting. Up until then, he had limited his track interest in high jumping hurdles. In eighth grade, I just messed around with the vault. I think I went about nine or ten feet and concentrated mostly in high jumping.

As the ninth grader Bob gave more time, vaulting, clearing 11 feet and also high jump, five, six. So he ended up, he ended up being, you know, just incredible vaulter and jumper and everything. And I remember they told him he had a six foot four inch. high jump and he's only a little bit under six foot which is a good jump but they he did what was called the western roll which means you got the the bar here and your stomach kind of follows it over and you just kind of jump and roll over the bar as opposed to the Fosberry flop which is he jumped against Dick Fosbury who invented the back to the bar and then you kick your legs over and that was how these jumpers were getting higher so they at Oregon State they told my dad that they

they could add eight to 12 inches to his jump, changing it from the Western roll to the Fosbury flop, and at 6'4, so if he adds eight inches, it's seven foot, and, you know, a foot is 7-4, obviously. And anyway, it didn't work out, but the point is he had a lot of potential for jumping. Dick Fosbury went on and won the Olympic gold medal at, I think, in Mexico City. And, yeah, so, I mean, he did implement that strategy. and you know i think that was a world record at the time whatever his jump was to win that gold so pretty exciting it's kind of cool you know to read those old things about my dad but you know what one other thing that uh there's another article that when he died yeah this one says axman track coach

dies at 62 um yeah long time south eugene high school track and field coach bob haynes died a cancer Monday at the age of 62, the 1966 South Eugene graduate who ranked seventh in school history in the Polvold at 15 feet and coached to Amazon, or coached the Axeman for 22 years, focusing on the pole vault and jumps. He was an inaugural inductee into the school's athletic Hall of Fame. Yeah, this is where those Beard siblings that I mentioned, Lindsay Beard won that OSAA Class 6A Girls' Polvold title in 2006 or 2007, 2008, and her brother Charlie. ranked 6 and 6A with the clearance of 16.5. So those, you know, those were the kind of impact he had on kids.

But they had, like the local paper here had this article on him, which is when he died. And, you know, as they say, when you die, well, I think the fear is like, will anybody notice or care, right? I mean, you want to go through life and you want to make that impact like I talked about. And, you know, just making sure people, you've made a positive, you've had a positive influence on others. Man, that's a measure of success to me and that your family knows that you loved them and everything else. Yeah, I mean, what do they say? You die twice, right? You die once when you pass away and you die again when people stop talking about you.

Right. last time somebody mentions your name right so that's why you know i've i've done this with roy i'm glad you had you know these questions on here to talk about my dad too because it's like that is how you keep that legacy alive and keep their memory alive um and it you know in that regard there's this article that says beach boy bob left in indelible market south and this was in the rest regard here's the only big paper we have in town but uh it says the obituary ran in third Thursday's edition in five paragraphs and 142 words, we learned that Robert L. Bob Haynes of Eugene died a Monday on cancer use 62. But who was Bob Haynes? It's impossible to encapsulate in an obit, not in a column either.

And beyond the facts, there's no good way to measure a life's impact. How to explain to somebody known as Beach Boy Bob or Bob the Badger nicknames bestowed because of one of his life's passions and the aggressive way. he attacked obstacles. How best to describe the heartbeat of South Eugene High, athletic department, a coach who was much more to his athletes, how to describe someone who is much more in general. Tell a couple of stories,

maybe some memories from those who knew him, but let's start here with Bob's wife, Candy, his passion overflowed, she says, and can't say much more. There's also, yeah, so it's like when I think of my dad, just like that was my stepmom candy, said that that his passion overflows.

So when anybody thinks of my dad, that's what they think of. And I think if, you know, you mentioned this earlier, if you can take anything from a man like that, whether it's your dad or anybody else, if they have that passion overflowing in them, that's a great trait, you know, because people got to know you care or do you care about anything, right? Some people don't know what their passion is.

but when you have passion for life and no matter what you pour yourself into it's evident that's a win so that's to me that's what my dad was and uh that's what i you know if i could uh i don't know use that as a measuring stick for success that's my goal. That's a that's a great way to look at it. Thank you James Gideon. Anything else? I think that's all I had written down. I mean, yeah, I feel like I got all my questions answered.

Did you? Okay, well, this, hey, I kind of like this. Yeah, I mean. I mean, maybe we can field some questions from the viewers. I can go through comments and. Do we have any viewers in here? I just mean on this episode. Oh.

You know, maybe if people like it. I'm always trying to rope Tanner into partaking, but he never wants to. No, no, he's got the microphone. He does. He could chime in any time. We're just, maybe we'll just wait. Yeah. No, yeah, I mean, I think probably next time we'll do, I'll ask you questions.

I don't know about, I don't have anything to say. So, yeah. Okay. Well, we might find out live on air, but thanks, James. This will be a little bonus. You know, we just had Aaron Rogers here, which was incredible. Feedback's been great on that. Good job on filming.

Oh, thanks. You know, James is the one who, with Tanner's help, filmed. the lift run shoot and then james edited the the episode everybody's enjoying right now so that was pretty cool and then we have remi warren coming up so this is like in between um we're taking joe rogan's approach and we're flooding the market with podcasts so this will be a bonus one in between but uh maybe we'll start doing these on a regular basis yeah maybe all right thank you we'll catch you guys next time keep hammering