Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 063 - Remi Warren

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

Join us for a discussion with Remi Warren, hunting guide, outfitter, outdoor writer, photographer, videographer, and TV personality. In this episode we’ll talk about Remi’s favorite hunts, using real life situations in practice for hunting and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Remi: https://www.instagram.com/remiwarren  Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code Cam for 15% off  Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/cam use code CAM for $200 off & free shipping on the Pod Cover Black Rifle: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first Order Leupold: https://www.leupold.com/ Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv  Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/  Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Remi’s Podcast 0:03:38 Becoming One of the Greats in Hunting 0:07:10 Difficult Hunts for Remi & Not Hunting for Score 0:13:34 Aggressive Bulls During Elk Hunting 0:18:53 Why Remi Likes Mule Deer Hunting 0:25:08 Memories of Success Over Failures 0:29:27 Remi’s 220 Mule Deer 0:39:32 Storms & Getting Struck By Lightning   0:43:04 Hunting Whitetail 0:47:31 A Bowhunter’s Best Tool or Skill 0:51:18 Pet Peeves & Barriers in Hunting (Sound) 0:58:33 Wind Awareness in Hunting & Keeping Data After Hunts 01:03:59 Creating Real Life Hunting Situations in Practice  01:19:48 Remi’s Perfect Hunting Situation 01:24:28 Question 1: The Easiest & Toughest State to Hunt in 01:27:58 Question 2: One Tag for the Rest of Your Life, What’s the Hunt? 01:29:16 Question 3: Identifying a Good Guide or Outfitter 01:33:15 Taking Other People Hunting VS Guiding  01:41:20 Question 4: Remi’s Most Memorable Hunt 02:00:48 Remi & Cam’s Dream Hunt 02:05:10 Remi Role Model Growing Up 02:09:55 The Challenges of Hunting Alone & the Loss of “Pioneerism”  02:18:53 Western Hunting 02:21:43 Being One of the Biggest Names in Hunting 02:27:06 Outro

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. Welcome to the Keep Hammering Collective. I'm here with Remy Warren.

How's that audio in your ear? That's good, man. Now I got it just right. Every time I do a podcast, I always bring up the point of like why the headphones. Why? Yeah. It makes no sense to me. Did you bring it up to Joe?

I haven't brought it up to Joe. I need to. How many times have you been on his show? Like maybe five or six, something like five times maybe. Oh, okay. I'm not sure. Yeah, that's good. It's, I know I asked him the other day.

I said, what's your favorite hunting podcast? And he's like, Remy Warren's the best. It's like something like hands down or, I mean, unequivocal, whatever. But yeah, he's like a big, it's Live Wild, right? Yeah, yeah. Wild Podcast. I know I've listened. That's a good review, man.

That's from the best in the podcast game. That's good. No, I know. It was, so I was like, okay, well, I guess I need to, because I was listening, you had, you've had a couple different ones, right? Yeah. Oh, I had a, it's the same podcast, just a new name. It was called Cutting the Distance now.

It's called Live Wild Podcast. That's not the same. That's two different channels. Well, yeah, I mean, same. Same person. Same. It's the same, I'm doing the same exact thing. just two different names.

Whoa, that's rebranding. Yeah, rebranding. That's exciting. Yeah. So this rebrand, how's it been going? Good, really good. Yeah, it's just for, it's hunting tips and tactics podcast. So it's all just me talking about hunting tips and tactics,

specifically Western big game hunting. Because like I don't, and I'm pretty abundantly clear. It's not a lot of tree stand hunting. tactics because it's not the style hunting that I do. Not a lot of turkey tactics, but there is a lot of elk. There's a lot of meal deer. Yeah. There's a lot of just general glassing, hunt strategy, application strategy,

a little bit of everything that you'd need to know for Western big game hunting. Like whether you're getting into it or whether you've been doing it your whole life, I try to make it that good mix of tactics for people that have like elk hunted their whole life, but maybe didn't realize why certain things worked and other things. in. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, I think anybody could learn from, because sometimes you're out there. Most things I've learned has been like just, I had to be there. Screw it up. Like, oh, don't do that again. But yeah, it's nice hearing from somebody with so much experience. And definitely shorten the learning curve. And then plus, not every hunter can experience the same thing, same conditions. So it's like even seasoned hunters

can hear something. And it's going to, you know, if you explain it in a certain way, it's, it's going to really hit home because they know exactly what it's like and maybe it's you know they hadn't thought about that or for sure i mean think about elk hunting there's those times where it's like maybe you're you're a hunter and you've you've only experienced the times where it's just tough like elk aren't calling and then you get into an absolute bugle fest yeah what do i do and i know a lot of people are like dude i've never experienced the hunt and like i didn't even capitalize on because i just didn't know what to do like they become too timid or they whatever you know so just to be able to kind of take my and then shorten the learning curve for guys.

That's what I like to do. Yeah, that's good. You know, there is, so I have a question. Yeah. And I saw that I put out like anybody had any questions for Remy. Let me know we're doing a podcast. Well, I have two questions now because I just thought of another one. People were saying like Remy's like the best hunter, best bow hunter in the world or one of the best to ever do it or whatever.

So how does one, first of all, get to be the best? I mean, how did you get to be the best? Here's the thing. I don't know if I'm the best, but I've put in a lot of time. Yeah. So time? I think, I mean, there's days or like years in the past before I had family. I would be out in the field three, my biggest year is 320 days in one year in the field.

That's a lot. It's a lot of days. And that's just one year, you know. I mean, I've professionally, now I've been professionally guiding and whatever for about, this would be 21 years. So I think like putting in the time and spending that time hunting on the mountains, learning the animals, that helps, right? Because it's just, like anything, thousands of repetitions and you start to like figure it out in a way. And honestly, making a lot of mistakes.

I think that to be really good at something, I mean, I've failed at certain things thousands of times, essentially. And it's like, okay, number 1,000. And I figured it out. And then that formula works and then maybe you fail again and you go, okay, I figured it out. And then I think the other thing too is like I, I don't know if it just lends to me. The way that I like to hunt is I've always really loved hunting. And so like when I was a kid, if I would go out on a hunt, let's say we had five days to hunt and a good buck stepped out on day one.

I would never shoot that buck. I would shoot that buck on the, I would shoot a deer on the last evening of the last day because I loved hunting so much. I didn't want to go home. And that's how I think that that's like the part of my brain that allowed me to go hunting 323 days. Like how did you? I mean, I worked in three different countries as a guide, kind of chased the seasons. Essentially all the other days were just travel days and I'd be in the field scouting, taking clients, hunting for myself, whatever. Um, but I think that, you know, having that that time and then also it, it kind of, I gravitate toward difficult hunts.

The ones that were the success could be really low because that would those hunts naturally allowed me to hunt longer. So, so I like, I pick an, I intentionally pick hunts that I think that I'm probably not going to be successful, which is a weird thing. but it's, I don't know, it's like my, it's what I love. And so I think by doing that too, I've had experience with very difficult hunts and then found success or, you know, I made it harder on myself by bow hunting and then self-filming. And so it like extended the hunt. It made it more challenging. So I had to pay attention to more details. Right.

Or like then from bow hunting and self-filming to bow hunting and self-filming a recurve hunt. And then from that like bow hunting and self-firmiling a recurve hunt and then over-the-counter you, that I've never been in. And you're like continually like pushing the bar for myself. I think that that lended itself to me having a lot of failures, which led to a lot of experience, which led to a lot of success. Hmm.

Like a weird formula. No, I get it. Well, I sort of get it because so to me, what's a very difficult hunt to you? I mean, to me like a difficult hunt is one where probably, I mean, I gravitate toward areas. and this is just maybe because like I was doing a lot of filming and other things. Maybe there's other reasons I did it.

But I would kind of pick a unit that I could go and make sure I got a tag. And so for the most part, the areas I didn't really want as many people. So it was like areas with very low animal densities. And I got like pretty good at finding and killing animals where there weren't very many animals. So like success rate would hover around like 2%. Right. And I'm like, that's the area I want to go into. especially for meal deer too.

It's like, okay, I mean, there's one area that I've hunted for meal deer that I try to hunt every year. And I've killed some great bucks in there, right? Like really good bucks, just over-the-counter type thing. And I would say, but like one in five, like, I'll go five years and three of those years, I won't see a deer in seven days, right? Like, that's just the mental aspect of that. And most people are like, and I know, for some people,

People are like, I don't know if I'm doing something wrong. And I know that I'm not doing anything wrong. Right. So I'm like, but there's just, there's just not deer there. But when you find a deer, it hasn't been hunted. It's probably got age class in this particular area has good genetics. So it's like when you find that. Older buck is going to be a big deer.

Yeah. So that was a buildup to my question because you said you intentionally won't shoot an animal on the first day so you can get more hunts. But what if you're on a hunt like that where there's been years where you didn't see an animal? And then on the first day you saw this, a 200-inch buck. A 200-inch buck is like that's a go for it now. That was in the past. Now I've got like a family.

I was like, I can't, dude, I've been like, there's certain things where I'm like, can I please just get a gimmie? But I feel like there's just something, I don't know what it is. I just for some reason like push it till the end. And it's not, sometimes it's not even intentional. The ones where I really want to, like, I'm like, okay, if I can get done with this faster, I can either go on another hunt or do something else. Yeah. And those are the ones that I generally can't get it done fast.

Well, I know, I don't know about hunting, probably hunting too, but there's things you do subconsciously. Like I know, I don't know. So if there's like a business relationship I've had and working, I'm almost like, I don't even know how to explain it. You like almost sabotage yourself because you're like, I don't like business and hunting. And I like to hunt. I don't like the business part of it. So I'm subconsciously pushing the limits on them getting mad at me. It's like because I hate this part of it. So I don't know if it's like in hunting. That's a long, long way to ask a question. But in hunting, because you in a way deep in

your mind, you don't want the hunt to end. Are you subconsciously maybe sabotage? yourself. I think so. Well, you know, I think definitely in one way I am because sometimes like if I in your instance of like if it's the first day and there's like a 200 inch buck, it depends on how hard I've worked for that deer in a way. Whereas like if I rolled up on a place and a big buck just stepped out and I was just like I don't know. It was like it just seemed too easy. I be like it's not your day today. Like I just have to but I might go shoot a small. or deer that I really worked for and that got me really excited. So I think like that's the thing about hunting is very personal.

Right. To everyone. Because like sometimes I won't shoot the biggest bull, but I'll shoot the bull that meant something to me. Yeah. Or like I felt like I deserved or like it was a cool. It was a certain encounter. There's, there's, there's something and I'm like, dude, that everything was just

awesome or it's like you're there with a buddy. And it's like you've got every, I think every animal. is different and every hunt is different and your reasons or whatever can be different there's certain hunts where I go this is a great tag I'm just going to hold out for the biggest and the baddest bull in the mountain and I don't find what I'm looking for

or but then there's times where it's like maybe that was my intention and then I have like this epic stock of like this deer below it's like the perfect situation you go there's like this heart pounding stock where you had to do whatever it's like that's my deer I know that that's my deer I don't know. There's just,

just happens. I like that approach, you know, because we get kind of not just hunters in general labeled as trophy hunters all the time, this and that. But I like your approach. It seems more honest than if you're just like, it has to be 200, it has to be a 400 inch bull. And it's all about score.

Yeah. And I don't like that part of it. We can talk about score because it's a nice, you know, rule of thumb to go by or just to make. measuring stick, everybody knows what it means. But on a hunt, just as you're saying, it's like there's so many different ups and downs on a hunt. It's sitting here and drawing it out on paper like, okay, here's what I want to do. And then you got on the hunt.

And like you say, it's more challenging or the weather or something happens or it's like this epic bulls fighting and you're just all wound up and you just want to make a good shot. And it works out. And then that's maybe the bull is just like a just a decent bull, but is that situation. that made it special. So I like your, I like your approach better. It seems more honest to me or pure to me than just like going after the biggest highest scoring animal.

Yeah. And that's like, but there are times where I mean, I've shot some, I think with meel deer, I'm a lot more selective than with any other species because it's like that's the one that I like to, I don't know,

I just, that gets me the most excited, I think. For me, it's like the most challenging. So when, I think like if I'm like oh I want the whatever size you know I might pass up a lot a lot of deer looking for that one deer but then like you said there might be another hunt where the deer that I want doesn't exist right yeah like and okay you're you're you just got to kind of play with what's what's available and the conditions and go from there really yeah I was thinking about that too that is a good example about somebody who has only been on hard hunts and then all of a sudden they're in this rut fest and then they don't know what to do i know i where i've screwed up in a

situation like that is not the rut fest but the bull's fighting sometimes i've seen bulls you know i don't know if i've made the best decisions because i don't think i've ever killed a bull that was fighting with another bull yeah to me that's a hard one what have you have you killed one fighting i've never killed one that's fighting with another bull but i have used that fighting to like get in yeah get in tighter um but how aggressive are you? because that's where I've screwed up. Yeah, I'm pretty aggressive with elk. I'm very aggressive with elk.

The thing is, like, often when they're fighting, sometimes people get locked in. I've seen a lot of people blow it where they get locked in. Like, the bulls are fighting. I got to run in. It's like, well, there's 150 cows, John Bull. Like, slow your roll, calm down. Like, yeah, we're going after those ones,

but there's still other elk doing other things. However, it depends on, like, the terrain. If it's, like, thick terrain and I know that, okay, I can move in. pretty quick, I would probably take that gamble. I'd probably kind of go in hot and I'd go in screaming with a bugle. So that, I mean, even though it's like they know that I'm there, if I lost sight of them, I think that I would do that because I would know that they would respond back kind of post-fight.

And then I would know whether they were still locked up if I couldn't hear. Oh, right. You should be able to hear. I'm like, yeah, normally, yeah. Yeah. The time I'm thinking of where I screwed up, they were just going for it. And I'm always super aggressive, El Cunning, just because you can get away with so much generally. But on that one, I did get in and I was like, I think I was like under 30 yards. And then kind of they're going crazy. He was kind of brushy in the quakees. And I was trying to determine which was the best bowl of the two. And I don't know what happened. But anyway, I didn't kill either one. The point is. Yeah. So yeah, that's your example reminded me of that. I did see I was with Rogan one time and these two bulls,

they weren't hardcore intense, but they were locked up or whatever. And then I was, I was with him. I was like, okay, it was a ball in the left. Shoot the bull in the line. No, no, no, no, ball in the right. Bull in the right. No, no, no, no, no. Bull on the left.

But I don't know if I did a good job on that one either. Did he shoot when they were like actually locked up? No. Well, the bull came apart. And then it was, we weren't that close to 67 yards. So they came apart. Then the bull on the left turned to walk away and stopped and shot him. That would be the dream, though.

Like when one's raking or fighting, I've always thought about that. Like you could actually air a one that's fighting. Yeah. I wonder, I've seen with red deer, red stag, where two are fighting. And then one gets shot. And then the other one just pummels it on the ground. Yeah. just pin cushions it.

I was like, I think that you'd probably run into that problem of like just holes everywhere. Yeah, I would, yeah, they're pretty ruthless once it, when that wound up, it makes sense. But yeah, I know I, in that same country, there's a lot of bulls where Joe killed that one. And I don't know, I don't know if it's that year and a different different year, but because it's a high bull to cow ratio, the bulls get after, right? It's very competitive. And I had just snuck in on this bull and he was bedded. He's like a 300 inch six points. I wasn't going to shoot him.

But I got close and he was in a perfect place to bedded. So I backed out from that and went down around. And then I was side-hilling and I see this bull. And I was like, oh, shit, there's a bull bedded. So I sneak in there 22 yards and I'm like, the bull hasn't moved in a while. No, and I'm like, but I've seen him get pretty tired after a long night of rutting. Yeah.

So I shot the bull. He was dead. Really? Yeah. It had a, it took a tying to the neck and had something happened anyway, killed. It's like a 340 inch six point. And it was dead and just like, whack, hit it, didn't move. So I was like, anyway, that story just reminded me of that.

And just making sure. So I, yeah, that was, I don't know if I should have been, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I would hate to, I would hate to. think it's dead, get in there, and have a get up and run away. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I guess if I'm going to make a mistake, it'd be the mistake I made. I mean, I had a buddy that was hunting one time and walked in on a sleeping elk, but he thought it was dead.

Kind of like went to go inspect it and the bull got up and ran off. Right. It was just like, yeah, that would be, hey, it might as well. Arrow's a lot cheaper than a bull. Yeah. And I made a good shot. That's good. Yeah.

It's like a practice. I mean, I, no. Then I killed a bull after that, so I actually got to shoot two bulls. Yeah. I don't know. Hopefully that's not illegal. God. I think shooting a dead elk, I don't think counts.

Oh, good, good, good. Yeah, but I don't know. It's so many experiences out there. So I was going to say, Mule deer is your, sounds like you love honey mule deer. Is that because that's what you grew up? That was your. Yeah, I think.

Because you're from Nevada. Yeah, I'm from Nevada. You know, it's funny because when you're growing up doing it, you always want to go after something else. Yeah. Or at least I did. I was always, what's the next thing out there? But when I realized, like, I think later on in life,

I think the challenge of killing a mature high country meal deer is probably the most challenging thing in bow hunting for me. Yeah. It's the one that I probably struggle with the most. I think to kill a big meal deer with a bow is pretty difficult for a lot of reasons. Like, there's not a lot of places where they are. You know, it's like, Like there's there's big elk a lot.

I feel like there's big elk a lot of places. And I love elk hunting. Like I love calling elk. I love interacting with elk. There's nothing like that. But if you, if I would almost in some ways, I just like the aspect of chasing elk and calling elk. So if someone's like, okay, you can pick one hunt. You got to be an observer on one or help guide one and do one for yourself.

I think I'd take someone elk hunting and I would go meel deer hunting. I see. Personally, because I can still get that like rush of bringing a bull in for someone. Yeah, no, that's, I get that. There is nothing like a bull coming in. Yeah, I mean. It's fun. Yeah.

Yeah. And I like to call elk. Like, I enjoy calling elk for people. It's a lot of fun like that. It's super active. Like you can be, you can be loud. That's nice. But I think with like meal deer for me, it's that true spot and stock game.

Like you have to be that I like the excitement of stalking in on something. I think that that like gets, that gets me excited because there's all the scenarios that go through your head and got to get like a good. position and find one to start. And then there's a lot of that anticipation on the stock and a lot of pressure of like making that stock work. Right. And a lot of like variables. Are you, what do you think is your strength? I mean, are you is, I could see people on whatever they're hunting, but specifically mule deer, maybe they're a great shot. So they know if they can just get that shot from 70 yards, thread it through something. Because, they you know that's what they do or some guys like to get like i think a south he always seems like

he's getting close all the time with his recurves like yeah he might want to get five yards away so what with your strengths and what you prefer what's your game plan my game plans get close close because i used to i used to get further back and sit but i've had so many good deer like the really big bucks the biggest deer in my life jumped the string and just dodge that arrow so fast And to anticipate a jump like that is near impossible to do, right? You just don't know. I feel like mule deer, to me, jump kind of, they jump when they need to. And I've, like, found that that sucked.

So I try to get within, I mean, it just depends. Like, I try to get, like, that 30-yard range. I've got the deer I was on last year's five feet. Really? Yeah, right on top of them. You kill them? Five years. No.

I didn't. It's a long story, but it was a... You got too close. No, it was a mechanical failure. I tried a different broadhead that I'd never shot before, and the thing didn't, like, it just stuck in and didn't... It was like hitting it with a blunt tip. Really?

It was wild. So it hit the deer. Hit the deer. Did it bounce off? It just stuck in, like, as far as the feral of the broadhead. Straight down on top of it. That's not ideal. It's not ideal.

And I had, this is stupid. I've told this story for, but I literally, like, switched my broadheads out because I wanted to, I was going to test the broadhead because I was testing it because I was going to maybe bring this new mechanical broadhead on a sheep hunt because I was going to have a new bow and I didn't want to, like, be hunting desert sheep with a broadhead that I'd never killed anything with. And just in case that, that's a long story. But I ended up, like, switching back and forth broadheads because I couldn't decide. During the stock? No, so while sitting there, I sat there for an hour. I was like I guess I wasn't five feet I was five yards okay so 15 feet and yeah I was like right on top of him and how big was he it wasn't it wasn't a giant

buck but it's like a hundred and seventy inch like a good good solid yeah yeah high country meal deer what was your fixed blade option it was like a evo just standard yeah blade right the bleeders tons of penetration oh god it would have been so dead like I I shot because I was shooting straight down. I shot him right, essentially right, just like that two inches left of the spine. I think it literally this hit like backstrap rib and stopped. And that was exactly where you're aiming. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't there was not like not like I hit something I wasn't supposed to hit. It was behind the shoulder. Yeah. Because it was away. I just hit exactly where I wanted. Mm-hmm. Just like, boom.

I wouldn't hit that far. That is. I think it was probably a little bit of user. error to you like I might have had the broadhead set up wrong or something I don't know I think so I don't know I don't know there's steep like the down angle yeah it was it just wasn't ideal hmm yeah and that's bow hunting too sometimes I mean there is there's you can say whatever you want they're very deadly a sharp arrow is very deadly but there's more variables in bow hunting than there's rifle hunting so there's to it yeah and things like that happen no matter you know, we want to control what we can control,

but there's those variables. You know, you're hoping the broadhead performs. You're hoping you do everything right, but you still need your rest to work. You still need, you know, your string to not stretch so the cams are in time. So it's that arrow's hitting with its full velocity. I mean, there's a lot that can happen.

There is, yeah. Yeah. It's a, and also that makes Bowhunting very heartbreaking at times. Oh, yeah. Like that time right there. Yeah, it's like I'll think about that day and day. And that's, yeah, it's one of those things, lesson learned. Yeah.

Right. Do you think more about the lessons learned or the successes? It's kind of a cliche. Yeah. Here's, I mean, the honest truth of it, you think about the successes more in the way that, like, I've got my antlers around and I'm looking at that thing and I'm thinking about that buck. Yeah. And I'm dreaming about that buck.

There's like one meal deer that I, that sticks out in my mind, though, that I do. didn't kill. And it was a it was an absolute giant like it's the biggest deer I've ever seen in my life. Like how big if you had to guess over 220 typical it would have been a world record. Oh my God. And I think about that deer nearly daily. And so what happened on that one? I snuck in. I was like a huge play and it was actually uh I mean I could say this secretly to you know where I ran and you and I were hunting in the same place. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know it to later on. It was in that exact place, but years prior. Oh, okay. That's why I hunted there so often.

Well, there was a good buck in there. There was a good buck in there. There was. Your brother killed it. We killed the two big bucks. I know. And that was like so far. I mean, have you ever seen people back there? No. It was the only time. Well, I might as well tell we tell the story because there's a place that I hunted is like Nevada backcountry. And we, I hunted in, I hunted in there. I mean, I spent hundreds of days in there. Like, I would go scout it for a month. And I would just like spend so much time in there. And I know every deer. And I would pass up. I was that was a hunt where I had a specific buck in mine. I hunted a certain buck for like three years for the most part. But this when I ran into you there, that was like after the hunt of this one particular buck.

And my brother and I were like, saw this vehicle at the trailhead. And it was like a rental car. And we're just thinking like, because people do hike and stuff. Yeah. Like, what the hell is this rental car doing? But we were kind of a little concerned. Like, is somebody dead up here? Like, do we need to help them out? Yeah.

And then I think we like looked. I was like looking in the window see if we can kind of figure out if they had like a bow case. Like if they're hunting. Okay. Great. So a cute hammering hat. Yeah. No.

I think it was there was a luggage tag on the thing that had your name on it. I'm like, okay. This guy's, this guy's probably fine. Yeah. And then we went to the exact same place. Yeah, exact same place. How many miles back was that, too? Was it?

It was a ways. Yeah. Yeah. And like the lot of, yeah, there's a lot of place you could go. And then I shot, I spotted a buck that was by himself, which doesn't happen very often. A nice, like four by five. Good solid, good solid buck. I snuck in, shot him.

And it shot him right toward the end of the day. And he went in around the corner. So we didn't, just in case, we didn't want to, we're like, let's get to camp. We'll climb up to camp, set up camp, and then go look for him in the morning. And so the plan was like my brother was going to go across the canyon, look back, and then I was going to blood trail. And so I'm blood, or we're going. And I spotted deer over on the other side. And I have my brother go get set up on it, like, just to make sure that it's not the same deer.

So she sneaks in to like, 100-something yards and he radios me I radio him is like is that my buck and he's like did your buck have a drop time and I had it had a kicker and I was like what I said well yeah I had an extra point what do you mean drop time he's like a five inch freaking drop time yeah I was like no he's like hold on sneaks down and smokes this buck yeah runs down the mountain dies I continue on the blood trail and there's my dead buck so he both killed like two jes giant but not giant like yeah this was pretty big his was like 190 type buck we both killed and I was like one high 170 so we both killed like yeah two giant bucks on the same essentially the same day day apart

that's impressive yeah it was awesome yeah I know I saw that was hunting that drop time buck yeah that's a good oh my god it was just like wide big fork and that was when you could hunt super early so he was he was like all balled up yeah yeah great deer just big deer he had I think he had another little kicker off the side too It was cool. Great dear. So, yeah, tell me about the 220 though. Oh, yeah, yeah, that one. I, so I essentially saw him first part of the season, got on him at 33 yards. And this was like when I was fairly, I was pretty young.

I didn't have like a lot of experience on big bucks, I guess. But you knew that it was a giant. Oh, yeah, no. I mean, I, yeah, I still did a lot of guy. I've been part of like a lot of big deer kills. I knew exactly what this this deer scored. And and I know that I was had to have been pretty close because my buddy ended up killing another buck in the group and I guessed him within a half an inch.

So it was like okay. Yeah. Yeah, we know exactly how big this deer is. But I got on 33 yards second or third day of the season. And he's bedded essentially kind of like sleeping. And I had this this branch and I thought, well, I'm going to get in and get exactly 30 yards. So I don't have to like think about holding high or

holding high or anything like that. Just 30 yard pin right on the money. And I would have a little bit just three yards further up. I would have a little bit less skyline because I'm thinking he's going to get up. If I just move over this ridge just a little bit, I'll be fine. And I had a clear path to crawl. So I'm crawling up super slow. I've been there for like probably 45 minutes an hour.

And so I'm crawling up. And as I'm crawling up, I feel the wind hit the back of my neck. And I was like before I'm like starting to go and I feel the wind just do a quick swirl. And that buck blew out of there so fast. It was just heartbreaking. It wouldn't matter if I, you know, the crawling up had nothing to do with it. Did you have a shot at him at 33? No.

Oh, well. He had to stand up. Yeah. All I could see was tall sage so I could see in the back of his head. And I thought about I should have shot him in the back of the head. but well now you thought about yeah no I thought about it while I was there did you I would have well this is a long story but I tried that later on it didn't work so I know that that would not have worked very good like theoretically it could have worked but yeah I don't think that I don't

think it would have worked so I saw that buck and then fast forward probably 20 something I solo hunted in there for like almost 30. days. So I think I was like 20 something days later. He was with another group of just some other giant deer. Were you hunting him only? I was hunting him only. Yeah. Like I passed up some did you ever see him? Absolutely giant bucks. Did you see him before that time? Yeah, I'd seen him before. I got in at 33 yards and I lost him for like 20 days. Or yeah, 15 to 20 days, something like that. I can't remember exactly. Yeah, something like that. And whatever, however long, it was toward the end the season at this point. I sneak in and I sneak in all day stock. Like they're bedded. I'm

above them. I'm crawling in. Like it's awesome. He gets up and starts feeding underneath me. I get my shot. It's like 50 yards. And this was before I really understood the angle thing so much. You know what I mean? There just wasn't like. I'm thinking that arrow's going to go high. The arrow is going high. However, I did aim low. Okay. So I draw back and I'm at full draw center and he kind of starts to turn his head. I release that arrow and he just ducked to that arrow.

I mean, just right over his back and blew out. And at this point, I knew that I didn't have any more, like the season's almost over. Yeah. I've hunted this buck so much. And there's a bunch of bucks in the group and another buck steps out between where he was. and essentially like the smallest buck in the group was still a big buck. Yeah. Probably one of the smaller bucks in the group.

And I was like, dude, I just in some ways, I'm not coming off this mountain without a deer. Like there's no, I knew that like that buck just blew out of the country. He just left the other deer. You don't have 20 more days. No, I don't have 20 more days to find him again. I'm like, I'm coming back next year. Yeah. And I shoot the other buck, which is like one of the smallest bucks in the group and ended up being the third largest buck shot with a bow in the state that year.

Oh, my God. That was the smallest buck in the group. Like, it was just absolute. Giant. Giant. And then we went back. My buddy had a rifle to, or a muzzle it or a rifle tag that same season. And so we went back in, found the one of the other bucks that was in that group on that day and shot that buck.

That was, I think, it scored 197. And then we never turned that big buck up again. And then I hunted him for two more years. that buck or nothing and never found him hunted every day this season looking for him never saw him again ever saw him again and then just decided and then it was that year and then I shot that other buck so nobody must have killed him not that I know of yeah I mean you would heard about that I would think if he's that big yeah yeah but that year there was like some giant deer got shot it was just a perfect year in that area like everything was right probably a lot of good mild winters big like just

everything was perfect for that particular area from big deer that year. Because like a neighboring unit, a guy had shot what was like a Velvet World Record that year. And then another guy had shot a good buck. I actually think a good buck got shot in the rubies that year too. And then the buck that I shot. And it was like one of the better bucks of the year.

I think didn't Randy Elmer hunt around there? He hunted, yeah, sort of. Where he hunts is a little bit further east than where we were. Maybe a different wilderness. Yep. Is it? Yeah, I know he, yeah, it's a different wilderness. Yeah.

Where he shoots a lot of those. Yeah, I thought so. Yeah, I mean, that was my first time in there. And it's, there wasn't a ton of deer, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no hunters and saying get occasional. Saw that one.

Yeah, I was trying to kill that one. Your brother killed for a few days. Yeah. Yeah, those were the only two good deer we saw that year, though. I think that was like, because I'd watched the, that's like I said, I spent a lot of time in there. outside of looking for that one buck, scouting, hunting, and just never turned up that deer.

And then I kind of slowly saw like the type of bucks decline. And so we knew that those other two deer were there or kind of had an idea about them being in there. And then we're like, all right, those are good. You know, that's about its top. Those were top in bucks for that unit for that year. Those are the best, I think that those were the best deer in the unit that year. Yeah.

In my opinion. Cool country too. Oh, yeah. I love that country. Yeah, I love that high country like August high country mealders my favorite because it's just like nice weather You know you can glass all day you can hike you can hunt the high country you can just sleep on the ground it's awesome I love it yeah I killed um a ruby i killed a nice buck in the rubies i thought i saw it as a four point is it this one no that one's from idaho i don't know where it's at but yeah it's uh me and south did that i think like in two thousand five

And that story where you said you can just sleep on the ground, that was true except when the thunderstorms come true. We got freaking pounded. Oh, yeah. That's a daily occurrence. Got pounded. Hammers. I had shorts on. I remember there's a picture of me.

It was in Eastman's where I had a spotting scope and I had shorts on. And then there's just these nasty black clouds there because, yeah, I mean, it could be nice all day, hot all day. And then, man, turn pretty crazy when the storms come through. Yeah. We get some real, because there's a lot in Nevada, there's a lot of different. It's actually the most mountain estate, most independent mountain ranges. And it's like valley mountain, valley mountain, valley mountain. And then the winds blow through there, real windy.

And you get some cloud and it just creates these huge electrical storms nearly daily. It's like kind of dangerous in the high country. I get, I get off the tops. I think I'll do a lot of hiking to get away from that. I think it blows a lot of people off the mountain. Yeah. I mean, because it's, it can be scary. Very scary.

I mean, yeah, as a human that's been struck by lightning, I don't mess with it. Yeah, I mean, so you, have you been struck twice? No, just once. Everybody says twice. I don't know where this, this rumor comes from. But it's like, if he's dumb enough to get hit once, he's probably dumb enough to get hit twice. No, I say let's say three times. Let's really say, let's make this a story.

Right, yeah. Okay, so if it was just once, tell us that time. No, I was, I was a kid. I was with my dad and it was like in the backyard. There was one of those, they call it like, bolts over the blue. We were in our backyard. We'd put up a basketball hoop and a storm we lived up on a mountain and then there was a big like electrical storm over town below us. And we were watching it, blue skies above us because that's how these storms rolling. It's like

cloud, probably a mile away or more. And just bolt reached out and slammed us both. Yeah. How'd that what happened? I mean, I was pretty young. It tossed me a long ways away. He woke up before me. He was paralyzed from the waist down. Or like, like couldn't move. Like he tried to crawl to me and couldn't move. And then I was laying there. Ambulance came, everything.

You know, I just kind of remember waking up not knowing what the hell was going on. It was pretty wild. Whoa. And then he, you know, his version is like seeing his kid laying there. I thought I was dead. Couldn't move. He ended up like, he was, I don't know how long it was. It was a little while, but he couldn't walk or anything for a little while.

And then, like, everything came back. Really? Normal. Yeah. Oh, my God. Weird. That's pretty intense. Like, how long was it until he could walk?

It was a couple weeks, I think. Really? Yeah. And did you have anything, any side effects? I mean, just making me as odd as I am, apparently. No superpower. I mean, you have superpowers or anything? I can get, I'm pretty sneaky.

So that's what happens. That's what happened. Yeah. That's about it. That is, yeah, that's, so did the, did it hit in between you or did it hit one of you? No, I hit both of us. It hit me in my, in my leg, like above my knee and came out below my knee, my right leg. And then it hit him, it hit him above the waist.

Some, I can't remember exactly where it hit him. But it leaves like a, it left like a pencil bruise like through my body. him he would at the time he was running a lot and they actually said like his heart probably would have exploded if he wasn't in such good shape holy sure well there's one that's one reason like you get zaffed guys on the golf course you know big yeah big fat guys is fine heart pops like a balloon yeah should have done more cardio exactly i mean and that's just you know that's just doctors talk and theorizing who knows i don't know if that's true or not but that's what they said to him it's a hot take Yeah, it's also like, you know, good, good motivation and inspiration.

Oh, that's intense. All right. So I was, earlier you said that not many white tail tree stand tactics or turkey tactics. Have you hunted white tail? I have, yeah. Yeah. And I actually really like hunting white. They're awesome.

I want to do this might sound weird, but I like to hunt. I actually, I just love hunting. Yeah. I'm just like, I love to hunt. And I like to hunt how other people might hunt where they hunt. Yeah. Like I grew up guiding, or I'm not grew up, but like majority of my life has been guiding people. And I guide a lot of guys.

That was their way of hunting. And then they'd come out and do like an elk hunt. Yeah. And in some ways, it kind of made me want to do their style of hunting. But I just haven't like taken the time to do it a lot. I've kind of got like a short bucket list of things I like to do. really want to shoot a deer in Texas. Because like watching Realtree.

I always say, I want to shoot a management buck on a Sondaro in Texas. Yeah. They like shoot these giant deer and that's a nice management buck. You just want to say that. I just want to shoot a management buck in Texas. Yeah. I've probably got an opportunity to do it now. But I just don't, it's actually hard for me.

I understand. I've done it a little bit, the like, sitting waiting game for White Tails. There's a whole mental aspect that I'm not familiar with. I need to move around. It's not my preferred style. But I have done ambush techniques and tactics. Not a lot of tree stands sitting, but I've killed deer out of a tree stand in Wyoming and stuff.

I do hunt white tails every year. I actually hunt white tails a lot, but mostly spot and stock are on the ground. Yeah, that's how I like it too. Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned the management buck in Texas. It was my first, It was my first out-of-state hunt, but I went to the YIO ranch in Texas, like in the early 90s.

I thought it was going to be an outdoor writer. I couldn't afford the trophy hunt back then even. But you could get two management bucks for $3,000. So I'm like, okay, management buck it is. And I went down there. It was a first time down there. And how they did it at this time was like there's corn feeders on the rigs. So you just drive down the road, hit the switch, the corn,

like that you go and you turn around and come then start coming back and then all the animals are not in the road right and uh so they had exotics and everything else i think they still said you could put it in pop and young and i don't know if it was i don't it seems like it was high fins but it's huge so i can't i don't really know i mean i wasn't killing any bucks i were going to record book anyway but i remember we walked or we drove up there and there was this little tiny eight point maybe about like this and it was the guys like I said what is that a management buck because it could either like a seven point or something weird or like I guess they'd call it if it had terrible genetics that'd be a management even though it's a uniform three by three with

iGar just should be an eight point and I said what about that one he's like yeah that's a management buck and he's like you want to try to to hunt it I said I mean, I can just shoot it from here. So I was used to hunting out west, you know, and you practiced long shot. So anyway, I ended up killing that buck and then a little seven point there. Both were probably about this big. But is that what you're after in Texas? No, like the ones that are like this big, but it's just like, yeah, it's only got three points, four points for size.

No, it would be like it's, well, it's 10 on the one side, but only nine on the other. That's not management. That's management. That's doing it, doing my job to take those jeans out, you know, to feed the 200-inchers. Dude, I never, I mean, I never even, even after that, we don't talk management stuff out West, usually. I mean, I've never even, I hadn't, we're not the big, what is it, QDMA, right? Isn't that what, where that started, like, quality-year management associations? Like, you, you coal out, you shoot the inferior ones.

We didn't, that wasn't a thing out here. No. Like if you didn't shoot it, somebody else would. Guaranteed. Yeah. You better shoot that fork or horn. Yeah. Otherwise, somebody else will.

Yeah, we didn't have that option. So, and I mean, you've hunted everywhere. And you said, you know, 320 days one year. But what do you think is like a bow hunter's best tool to have in his arsenal? What is, like, if you had one skill that was, above all the others, what would that be? I think like if you're just, if you just want to be successful

and you could do one thing, it's a level of paying attention. Like the biggest mistake I see people do, whether they're stalking in, whether it's like they're walking with their head down. And it's the easiest thing to do is like I can tell, I can go out with a guy and know how competent he is within three seconds of watching him walk.

Really? Yeah. Like because people like walk like this or stock like this or they're so constant. on right in front of them. It's like, you know, the guys that are really good are looking out here. Their heads are not. You can, you've walked your entire life.

You don't need to be like down on the ground. Yeah. Like being attention, head up, head on a swivel, looking around, being alert. Because it's the one that you don't see that busts you. It's the things are constantly moving and changing. Like any sport, it's like when you're first playing, I don't know, like say soccer. And you're like, you're looking down at the ball and the feet. And the pros are like looking out here at the goal.

Right. Yeah. Like it's not. So I think that that's just, it's super easy to do. It's like put your head on a swivel, move in and pay attention. Yeah. I think it is like anything else. So there's some people who if they're not looking where their feet are going,

they're stepping on shit, kicking shit. You know, it's like I know what you're saying because to be good, you have to have your heads up, but you also have to be aware of it. I don't know how I do it or how to explain it. but it's like I look one time and then I know where to place my feet for, you know, 10 yards or whatever. 100%.

Yeah. So, I mean, you're looking, but barely, and it's just enough. And then you know that through experience that where to put your feet. Exactly. Yeah. What I used to do, like, it's, well, guiding. Sometimes there's not everybody's in the same physical shape that you would be in, right? So there's, you're like doing a lot of, I would just consider it, I think it's like slow walking,

like trudging. I've got a certain pace and you do my pace. So I'd end up way far away. So I'd just slow myself down. I used to play this game. I would just like look around, not even think about it. And then I'd pick a stick like off in the distance. And then I'd close my eyes and walk and place my foot on that stick.

Oh, okay. You know, it was just a fun game that I would just do because I'd bored like waiting for somebody. So that would slow me down. So I'd walk essentially long, pretty good ways. Like, I don't know, 20 feet or more. Like pretty good. Your peripheral vision can really. And there's certain times where it's like, okay, look down, check, you know, place your foot.

If I got to feel the ground, I mean, I feel, I also feel the ground with my feet, too. I kind of, you kind of use your everything available to you. Some people just, like, they don't recognize that their feet feel the ground. It's like, oh, there's a stick and they're just going to throw all their weight on. Yeah. They're going to just walk and drag their feet or they're going to do whatever. But yeah, you can, you can get, I got surprisingly, it's weird how just your brain can build the picture and you just can navigate like over the log with your eyes closed once you've seen it yeah i did that for

i've spent hours doing that not out of like trying to practice anything just to slow me down and i'd just be bored like trying to get to a spot in middle of the day like moving and you got a guy like walking behind you like yeah i'm just going to do this with my eyes closed i'd go miles like that really open them close them it was just something like a time killer for me that'd slow me down And it was like a mental because otherwise I just see like, come on. Can we just like it's just right here, dude. Please just just walk. Yeah.

No, I get it. And that's good training for sure. I mean, I've always thought of thought of it as like in football where they'd have the running backs run through the tires. You know what I mean? I think a lot of those guys were looking at the tires. But if you could get your feet in the tires and have your head up, up to look to where to cut afterwards. I always thought of about like that, like quick feet, good foot placement.

I thought of hunting like that too. And I know there's something about being aware too about not just putting all your weight on that because I feel stuff all the time and then don't finish the step. Or, you know, you kind of like your foot goes down. It doesn't have to go down all at one time. You know, I mean, it's good to place it and then feel it as you go. But I think people miss that part of it. They do.

And it's like, it's going to be really. really hard to be a good bow hunter without that awareness. Yeah. I think most people don't even know, they just kind of bramble around, like bull in a China shop. Yeah. And I just don't know that they're so loud. I've got, I think I have like a specific look.

It's like, I'm always looking back like with this, this glare. And that glare means like, dude, you're loud. Can you stop kicking every, like stop dragging, pick your feet up, place your foot. Don't slam your heels into everything. Like there's certain, you know, balsam root, the one that's like almost looks like a mules ear and it dries up and is super loud. That's alarm bells for a meal. Yeah, for sure.

People just kick through that stuff and not even pay attention. Like, they don't even notice that they're doing it. So it's just that level of being self-aware and aware of the sounds you're making. And then also not being so timid. Then you get the opposite. Yeah. So worried. Right.

Everything. You kind of got to, you kind of learn that little flow of like when you can move, when you can be loud, when you have to be quiet. Mm-hmm. And that's just comes from experience. Experience. and being aware. Right.

It's a, you know, the other pet. So I got a couple hunting with people. First of all, I hate hunting with people. But if we're going to film it, unless yourself filming like you have, it's just part of the nature of the beast. But a couple things that drive me crazy with somebody else, in addition to kicking everything or whatever, but the pants swishing when you're walking and then talking like in a normal voice.

Yeah. Or even like, It's not even, it's like a lower voice, but still like the regular voice. It's like instead of the whisper type thing. It's like, I don't think people realize how fucking far your voice carries in the mountains, especially if it's clear out. Oh, yeah. I mean, miles those animals can hear you, it seems like.

I was hunting a spot last year, last year, late season. And I was up on a mountain doing some glassing. And I had some buddies that had, it was a buddy that had a tag. And I'm literally, I felt like a. probably not a mile but a long ways away. And I radioed and I was like, I can hear you guys talking. Oh, God. It was just one of those, the wind was perfect.

I'm up on the top, maybe an amplest theater sound, but they had to have been. I was like, why are you guys yelling down there? Like, they're just all having lunch, just BSing. You know, I'm like, dude, I can sure you guys. So imagine what the deer can hear. How far? I mean, so far.

That whole basin had to know that, oh, there's hundreds, you know, are humans here. Yeah. I've always been in that mindset, like, especially with a bow. Like, you do not want those animals to know you're there. And I'd see it all the time where guys would be like, oh, well, it's not, they're so far away. They don't care. Like, they aren't running away. It was like, yes, they are not running away.

Because if they ran away from every danger, not in their immediate presence, then they would be running all the time. However, they are aware. And when you get into that zone, things change. Yeah. That might mean a jumping buck. That might mean a buck that's heads up a lot longer. Yeah, because they heard something. They heard something.

And they know that there's predators here. And now when they hear a stick crack, when you're within 40 yards, instead of looking and then going back to feeding, they're going to look and stare. Yeah. And that's a difference between success and failure. Exactly. And like, I would do the same thing. Like guys would go, say, a ridge and they're standing on the certain ridge where we would glass or they,

I've even seen it where it was like, there's a difference. Whereas like there's a ridge that I would always park a ways away, walk around, like sneak over the top using brush and cover and sit there in glass. It's like, oh, well, those deer aren't running because the guy's got his truck up there. Like, yeah, until that guy gets to go on a stock. And then he just blows him out because they know that the danger is there. Yeah. That's huge. No, nothing goes unnoticed.

I mean, if a buck's getting age on him, he's heard a lot, been around a lot. Yeah. You know, identified a lot of hazards that he's avoided, you know, and that's just part of it. Yeah, I don't think people, I don't think people give the animal the credit for the survival instincts it has, you know, to get old. For sure. And yeah, it's all those. I even, like, I know you probably tell me about this, but when I'm on a stock, I'm always thinking about what kind of barriers, not just for sight, but also for sound. You know, if I'm on the other side, if I can use the other side of the ridge and then pop over instead of trying to stock on the same side of the ridge because that sound will, I know that sounds going to carry right to them.

Or on the other side, you can get away with so much more or just small barriers like that, definitely in the shadows all the time. I mean, I see people that are, you know, that hunt and there, if I'm, if there's a brush there or something there, I'm always going on the shady side. as opposed to the sun's side. Oh, for sure. Even if you think, like, we hadn't seen anything, but I'm still always in the shadows. Is that kind of what you do?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Like move from shadow to shadow, stop. And yeah, because there's like, it's all the little things. And it's a combination of, I mean, over the years, I've just found that that's how you become consistently successful

is accounting for all the really small things. Right. And if you're accounting for those all small things, then the big things, you're clearly accounting for. And it all adds up to maybe a little bit better opportunity. Maybe you were standing there and you popped over a ridge and you're glassing or you're looking, you don't see anything.

And a deer happens to walk up, right? And you're standing in the sun's side. Well, now everything that has to go right, it's like it's easier for that deer to see you. The sun's on you. He's going to catch the limbs drawn. He's going to catch a lot of things. He has more opportunity for that to go wrong.

but if you did the one small thing of being maybe in that shade, you could grab an arrow off and knock it without that flash hitting him. And maybe he's still unaware. And then you might have that opportunity to draw back and get a shot. So just a small little thing amounts to larger things down and all those little tiny little details compound. Yeah.

So thinking of that too, as you were explaining that, I was thinking about do you, when you're stalking an animal, I would say meal deer, because it's so tough. But if the wind is unstable, are you staying back till it settles down? And then, you know, as we get maybe early in the morning when it's going downhill or later at night

when it's going uphill better, is that when you're closing in? Or how do you do it? Yeah, I kill a lot. I actually just did like a like put compiled a lot of data of just like successful haunts, bow on for meal deer. And I would say, over half, like probably 60 something percent, are killed between 11 and 3 p.m. middle of the day. And it's because, like, that's the best situation for the thermals to stabilize and push that wind up into the sky, especially early season.

Because after three, now it's switching again because the sun's dropping, things are cooling. It's pulling down. But in 11, it's up. So it's coming up then. So in that four hours, it's the best time for the wind is what you're finding? Yeah, I think it's probably the best time for the wind, most stable shadows. And also the animal is generally more, you know where they're going to be because they're bedded. Correct, yeah.

Because like before that, like a meal deer, like just particularly a meal deer will go. He'll feed in the morning. Then he'll go to bed, but it's just a temporary bed. He beds. He sits down. It might be shaded. And then what happens is the sun's rising. It's rising and that shadow's moving.

And so he wants to stay in the shade, especially early season. this is primarily early season, but that shade moves. Because the sun's more intense. Yeah. Well, it's just that the sun's moving at it, I guess, at that arc. But when it's up above, the shadows stay consistent the longest. So as the sun's higher in the sky, there's that point in the day where it's like moving less. The shadows are moving less.

And so when the shadows are moving less, when the sun hits that buck, he's going to get hot and rebad. And so when the shadow moves less, he's tucked in longer. And then also it causes the ground to warm up, which pushes the thermals into the, into the air. So you might have a swirly wind, but the thermal might be stronger than the swirling wind. So it's throwing your scent up. So if that wind kind of quickly shifts, then it might shift, but it'll be above where he can, where he can smell. And so that's, that's always a good tactic. But that's not to say that I just, that's the only time that I stocked here because that's not always an ideal situation. There's a lot of places where that might not work.

Like early season, open country, high country. Yeah, that's a great tactic. But there's places where you have to use ambush tactics in the mornings and evenings while they're feeding. And I've killed a lot in the evening and a lot in the morning. And so you change your strategy based on the time of day and the winds and everything like that. But for the most part, I'd say on elk wind is the number one factor that busts you. Because they like to bet on those ridges and the places they intentionally bed where the wind swirls.

and they kind of bed in multiple positions, right? They do that intentionally. And then I think with meel deer noise probably gets you the wind and noise, but it's like a toss, coin toss between these two. How many, how often have you killed bucks come into water or food source as opposed to spot and stocking? I'm trying to think. I don't know.

When you say data, is that your own data? My own, just like bucks that I've killed. So you write how much of this data do you have? I mean, on your kills, do you go back after the fact and write everything you remember? Yeah, sometimes. I mean, it's more just like a spreadsheet. Oh. So it's like, okay, it's just like thinking about bucks that I've, deer that I've guided,

ones that we've killed. I've killed. So then I just just, but here's the thing is like the data skewed to my particular style of hunting, right? Yeah. If I like to sit water, then it'd be like, oh, I shoot them all at 4.45 p.m. when they come in or like right, right at first light. Right. It's very skewed to my style of spot and stock hunting.

But it also says, like, in the middle of the day, I'm very successful on most animals in the middle of the day. When most guys are like back at camp, that's when I do a lot of killing. What, I mean, why do you do that? I mean, is that because history has taught you that that's when you kill or is it that's the best time to kill or? I think for stocking in for me particularly. and the way that I like strategize it, that's the most successful portion of the day for me. So for some people, that might not be.

Right. If their skill set didn't lend itself to capitalizing on those opportunities, maybe they'd be better off waiting at the water for once a bucks get up in the afternoon before they go feed, they're hitting water. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it just depends on like your style of hunting.

But I don't know. I found that that's a pretty successful. Do you have an average shot distance that you've noted? Yeah, I think for meel deer it's too, I can't remember. It was it's like 43 yards, something like that. There's some outliers like some pretty far and some really close. Yeah, it just averages in that like 40 range. Mm hmm, yeah, that's I mean, I feel like if I have a buck at 43, I should be able to kill it.

Yeah. Is that is that yeah. Okay, that that leads me to my next question. How often are you shooting like how good a shot are you? I mean, I shoot quite often. Is it a strength of yours, do you think? I would say, well, shooting at animals, high strength. I, for some reason, like, I've just done it a lot and I'll do, like, I think I've gotten,

like, a lot of repetition in other places. That's why I like, I like hunting other places. Like, I'll go to Hawaii, New Zealand, places where I can just do a lot of hunting and not have to worry about that one tag a year. Right. Right. Like, it's very automatic for me. shooting at targets. I mean, yeah, I shoot targets all the time, but I think that my strength is in

shooting, hunting situations, I guess. Just staying, probably staying calm. Yeah. And just making good decision. That's why I see a lot of people who are great shots. They're not good in crunch time. Correct. Yeah. And I think that's a learned skill too because I remember when I would get to crunch time, the animal was there, perfect position and you're just rushing through it because it's like this is it's now and you're just making it happen and that's where I would screw up a lot now if I can just go in there still be calculating calculated heart rate is fine making good decisions that's that's what separates the best from the rest is from what I see because I just see a lot of and I I just can speak for

myself I just know that I screwed up a lot in crunch time when I first started with is that what your experience was too? Yeah, I think, I think that it was more along the lines of like you'd practice. Well, one of the things that I stress for people, especially getting into bow hunting, is they practice. They shoot, I could, you know, I'd shoot hundreds of arrows a day. I still do. I shoot every day.

But like shooting at a target in your backyard on flat ground and being a really good shot at targets has absolutely nothing to do with being a, maybe not not. nothing to do. But it has very little to do with the kind of shots you're making in the field. Right? So then what happens is a guy is like, oh, I practice all the time. They get in the repetitions and then they get a certain kind of shot where they've actually never done that.

Like what kind of shot would that be? The one that like I realized was one of my weaknesses was like the shot where, you know, you're drawing back, let's say on your out of sight, your drawback. You come to full draw. but you're maybe in a position where you, if you stand up fully, you're skylined or something. So you're just shooting just above the brush

where you're literally in like a chair squat position shooting downhill, like a steep angle or a steep up. It's a very difficult shot to do. And people was like, that's the first time they're ever going to do it. They're going to shank that shot every time, right? For sure.

Like you're just, you're going to shoot high or low or you're going to rush it because you're unstable, you're uncomfortable. rule things like that or the shot where it's like a bulls coming in there at full draw and they have to hold it hold it hold it hold it hold it hold it and like they're going to hold it because an elk's coming in but when they've been shooting in their backyard they've just drawback shoot draw back shoot

right that kind of stuff yeah you know like the the stuff that you just encounter or the shot too of like a lot of people just focus on the target and not the flight path of the arrow right I'd say that's the biggest mistake. So it's like if I, when I shoot, I try to really mimic hunting situations. Because like I see a lot of people, I would say most the things I, I don't know, it's never ideal for me.

It's always like there's shit in the way. There's like, it's fat, it's whatever. And so I'm like, that's the kind of thing that I want to be good at. And so like shooting through stuff, I've got really good at understanding like I can see. I know in my head where my arrow is flying. And I can really like thread the needle pretty darn good. And I feel like I've got a lot of success from that.

Yeah, that makes sense. Everybody has different ways of do it. I know I had a few guests here. And like when we'd go out to Wains to shoot, it would be like, I would make stuff up. Like, oh, our feet stuck in quicksand, but we have to shoot behind us. Yes. Or squatting down just on your toes, but you're squatted all the way down and shoot at 100. And seven yards.

Yeah. Those are hard shots. Like, yeah. Or I did one leg. Yeah. Like stand on one leg. Or then I also did one time with Dan Staten was here. I was like, we took off from camp.

I accidentally grabbed your bow. Yeah. We shot to 70 yards. I shot with his bow. He shot with mine. So I'm always like, it's more like fun or even sitting here in the driveway. I'll put my window down and just shoot. And that's just to try to reinforce that trajectory of the arrow.

You know, I know at 40 yards. I know my arrow is going to go right by my truck mirror. So it's not going up very high. To go up high, it's going to be back at 80 yards. And then I better be paying attention to how high that arrow is going. So it's like all those little things is, of course, anybody, you know, you go down at 20 yards and you're hitting the X and you can shoot a 300 with 60 X's. That's awesome. I'm not saying it doesn't help in hunting, but there's a lot,

a lot of different things that would help more. Yeah, that's what I'm saying is like getting, shooting, you need to be proficient at shooting and repetitions are a good way to build the form. But in the mountain, the form changes. Right. And you got it, like that's the thing that I find is, like you said, an elk's coming in, you're at full draw.

And then the elk walks over here. And the first, the natural reaction is people just like move at the tips, but don't reposition feet. Right. So you're tort, you're putting, like undo torque on the bow. And if it's a like far distance, you're talking about the difference between

hitting it here or six or eight inches one way or the other. Right. Depends on how far it is. Yeah. And just like, because you're, you're just not shooting the same as you are when you're just shooting. Yeah.

But I mean, I do like, I put in the repetitions of just shooting the bow, like shoot the bow, shoot the bow, shoot the bow. I've got a flat target in my backyard and I just shoot it and go back and shoot. And then I've got like a 3D. range where I essentially can shoot super steep angles, brush in the way, whatever, whatever it is. And then I'll just, like you said, play those games. You can do it.

You don't have to have like a 3D range. You can do it in your backyard at 20 yards. But how are you going to do that is just getting yourself in those uncomfortable positions, those weird things that just help you build that muscle memory for the thing is you don't want to encounter a situation in the field with your. boat that you've never done before. Right. Chance so you're like, that's a new one because you're going to screw it up.

Like, yeah, I had an opportunity. This is the last week. There was a deer coming in. I was hunting access deer and it's tall grass. And I had my re-curve with me. It's like a long curve, but shoots like a long bow, but it's a re-curve. And I'm like, if this thing comes in, I'm going to have to shoot it laying down. Yeah.

Like, well, I've shot laying down. So it's not like a new thing. That situation they ended up. It didn't happen. No, but I was fully prepared to lay down and just. So laying on your back? Playing on my back. That's with a trad bow.

Right. I wouldn't, that's not possible with the combat. I did one just messing around, me and Tanner out at Wains, and I was like, had the target set up, and then I wanted to draw back and I shot through the antelope's legs. So it was like, I had to like lean over like this.

and then the arrow was wanting to come off the rest because it was like can'ted so much. But am I ever going to have to do that hunting? I freaking hope not because it was super hard. But I'm always, I just get bored. Yeah. I think that's the biggest thing is I get bored just as the normal shooting. So I have to, I want to shoot at 200 yards

or try to hit a balloon or it's just really hard for me to stay engaged when it's just the regular shot. Yeah, I agree with that. It's like you got to, you keep. keep your mind moving. That's what I probably if you're just tell me to go shoot paper X's the guys that are really good it's like it's kind of in my mind like sitting for white tails in a way yeah. It's just like I don't have that patience factor to it's just there's a mental ability there that I'm not great at like I just get really bored with it yeah I'm personally that's not there's

nothing against it love it yeah the guys that are good at it I respect the hell out of them for doing it. I just get bored with it. Have you ever shot like tournament, like the, the, try to shoot a 300 type thing? No, I haven't, not the indoor paper thing. I haven't like, I've done, I did a couple indoor 3D tournaments like Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation used to do it. And I would do that. It was just fun, you know, actually won it a couple times. But that was fun because it'd be like a pop up.

There's like an elk that'd pop up and move. Yeah. It's like a walking elk. And then they'd pop up it very. ranges into time. It was a lot. I actually really enjoyed that when they did that. It's been a while since they've had that though. Now one of my favorite thing yeah I don't know if I ever did that but I had Levi Morgan out here and I was kind of I was tried to make it make it unfair. I was like going to my home range out here and all these crazy shots I was practicing every day during the week just

okay I know where to stand here this is 86 yards you got to shoot under this limb and it'll go over that limb. And so I thought, okay, when he comes, I'm going to know home court advantage and he still beat me. But we were doing like all these super hard shots. And I just, I loved it. Yeah. It was so great. Yeah. I've actually got to shoot with him one time. And that's, that's what we're like, are you a good shot? And that's like he popped in my mind. I'm like, no, I'm not a good shot. Like he's a good shot. Like he's a great shot. I'm a good shot. He's a great shot. I know. It's like that's just a different level. Yeah.

It's impressive. Yeah. I think I claimed, I think I won two targets in a row. And that was like, okay. Did it. Yeah. That's cool. But yeah, he was like never set foot on that course.

And I mean, it seemed like we started off and every arrow was like perfect, perfect. Yeah. I'm like, if I hit lungs, I'm like, okay, I'm doing good here. He's like in the 12, you know, of the heart. Center of the center. God, dang. That's cool. But yeah, it's, that's next level too.

But still, even, even that is not hunting. Right. You know, because on those, you have as much time as you need. And hunting, it's like you have all those same shots, but the clock's going. Yeah. And that's where people screw up. Or, you know, you see like an animal, range. range it and then it's and then it takes two steps it's like well you know that those targets don't

move like you know how far they are whatever range estimation i think is actually pretty key in hunting as well like if you're good at range estimation mean so once you get because now you get the yardage on probably every shot pretty much right um but are you saying like adjusting if they move and not having to rearrange but knowing how to yeah like you range they take a couple steps okay or watch you're at full jar ready you know understanding like that estimation and then there's those instances where it's like the animal maybe i didn't have time to range or whatever yeah does that happen very often do you not a lot but it happens yeah yeah no i i i really try to lock in that range yeah first it makes it makes a big difference and i i do as well but there are instances where

you know mostly like elk i like unless they're far you know you're just like okay i know you're just like okay i know i'll usually yeah i don't know i'm so paranoid now before i never you know we didn't have range finders right so we shot and you had to judge all the time i mean you had to know how to judge now it's like that's not a skill you almost need to develop anymore because of the range finder so i think a lot of people I do kill still like sometimes you know I don't use one of the sites that like the garment where you can just do it so I still it's still a process to let up range or whatever so I think I am pretty good at like that if they take the one or two steps knowing where to hold because I practice that all the time right because I have that um the site I generally been hunting with has a single post with the three pins in it and I know I know what the top pin is, middle pin is, and I know, you know, kind of how to adjust on the fly.

And that's what's hard is like, if I know the yardage and I know exactly to hold right on, it's still having that same amount of confidence. If I know that it took two more steps, still like aiming is hard and knowing without a doubt how to where to hold exactly, that's what's hard. Because I think a lot of people,

Like back in the day and I don't know how you do it where you mentioned that buck was 33. You wanted to get 30 so he could hold right on. It's like having that same amount of confidence in holding the 33. Right. I think people struggle with that. Yeah. That's another thing that I practice a lot is like the off yardage, off range yardage. So you'll have a pin set.

Like just because you have a movable pin or you've got multiple pins, I shoot the gaps a lot or shoot that. like I'll even set my 20 yard pin and know my I know my holds for very like far distances without setting my pin right like I know my holdover is pretty well when I'm familiar with my bow yeah I try that too and just seeing I just want to know where if it's 20 and I use my 30 yard pin what is that what happens right yeah you know and how that's a good one to get at yeah the Kentucky windage it looks yeah let's let it rip I just know that I hate to like you don't want to rely on the luck. Right. But sometimes I like being surprised like, wow, that worked out perfect.

That's good. Instead of the other way. Yeah. Because I've been the other way too. But I think that that does come with the reps and like the different animals and just, you know, never being really, we're always going to, there's going to be different situations, but not being surprised. Right.

And I think like all the hunting you've done in the different countries and the different animals and the different, it that only has to help when you come back home. Oh, for sure. That's why like I did it because you're like, oh, you go on a meal deer hunt and I put all this time in and that's like I'm shooting it one deer a year. Yeah. If you mess up. But I could go somewhere else and shoot it like how put in the reps of like, okay, I got multiple stocks. You can, there's just more times to mess up. Right. And then you kind of start to build a rhythm of like this is how this is how this is how I'd do it next time and then you start to like figure out the best way what's uh like tell me about it that a time where everything

worked out absolutely perfect and what well why does it stand out like if you think of like if somebody said where you did everything right and it just couldn't win any better what's that example that you think of. Who? I mean, the biggest deer I've ever killed was that. Yeah. It was not an ideal situation, but I did everything for the most part, right. Was it that, I remember seeing a giant in the sage.

Yeah, that was that buck. How big was that buck? He was 217. Oh, my. Was that with a recur? No, that was with a compound. Yeah, I just remember the buck. And I remember the wide open sage picture.

So tell me about it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'd spotted the buck and they were, it was morning. They were going from feeding to bedding. And they were moving up a mountain. And so my thought was like they're all single file and they were kind of, I could see them as like there's only going to be betting on one. I figured I never hunted in there before, but I figured I looked at it real quick and I was like, this is where they're going to go. Yeah.

So I just bombed off the mountain, sprinted up the other side because I was going to beat them to the top. What were they feeding on? Like essentially, the bottom, I don't know. It wasn't like a agricultural field. There were ag fields, but not where they were. So I don't know if they were like coming from maybe some ag in the morning. Yeah. That's probably, they were probably feeding in.

They were probably feeding in some ag like at night. Yeah. And then we're transitioning back to bed, as was my guess. And so they were moving up. And I'm like, I'm going to beat them to the top. And trying to beat a meal deer that's a mile on. half away is top. Yeah.

Like even if they aren't, they weren't like running, but they weren't. Yeah, they move quick. So I get to the top and I catch antler tips below me. And it was that like a buck looks up and I just laid down. I laid there for like 20 minutes. Just didn't like forced myself not to just calm down. How far away was it? Ooh, probably 60, 70, 70, 80 or something like that.

And he didn't see you, but you saw our tips. Yeah, I could see. Oh, no, one of the bucks I think almost like could have seen. And I don't know, you know, when they're like, you don't know if a deer's looking at you or whatever. So I just laid there. There was quite a few bucks in the group. And then they continued to feed off and move. But there was, I counted the deer before they went up and there was two deer missing.

And the big buck wasn't there. So I'm like, okay, so I waited away. I didn't know if he'd gone out of my site or what, but the other deer moved off. So I just waited. Yeah, it got warm. And I figured there was a couple trees below where I was at. So I'm going to go stalk into there because that's the only place that maybe he would have stopped. So I'm stocking in and sure enough I see there's a small three by three.

And I didn't see him, but I figured there was like a big tree and a ledge that I was stalking in on. And so I'm just decided I'm just going to sit here and wait. And I don't know if it was what it was. The buck. This is where it's like everything went right and wrong at the same time. Yeah. I can't remember. I think I must have ranged across the canyon before, you know, I was sitting there,

like sneak in just a bed to buck. And the first thing I do is just get all the ranges, everything. Yeah. So I knew approximations. And that little three point was here. So I'm waiting. And then all of a sudden I just see the three points head whip back toward me. You know, it is not good.

And he blows out. And as he's blowing out, I just come to full draw. And the big buck goes across, like runs. But he had no clue why that deer was blowing out. I think that something, like the three point, like ran out and must have, you know, they're just like run from their bed and stop and look. Right. So he did that.

And I am already at full draw. And I just grunt. And the big buck, boom, stops on the brakes. And at that point, arrows on its way, 46, a shout it for 46 yards. So you knew it was 46. Well, yeah, I was fairly confident. It was about 46. Yeah, 45.

It was, I just remember ranging this kind of the canyon across and all. I arranged everything, trying to memorize everything. But in that moment, you're like, all right, you kind of tell yourself, like, if this happens, this is what I'll do. Yeah. He went across, made a perfect shot, ran over the hill. Oh, man. That's a giant buck. Yeah, it was a giant buck.

So because I'm not good now. we are going to go to the crowd for questions. The crowd, we've got a standing room only crowd in here. I like it. Well, sorry. Yeah, we got a couple good questions on here. All right. All right.

Well, this one is for both you guys. In your opinion, Bridger underscore Chaplin is wondering, what is the hardest state to Elkhunt and what is the best state? Oh, the hardest state to Elkhunt. I would say a state with no elk. Yeah. Oh, Vermont? Yeah.

Oh, no, there's elk in Vermont, I think. Is there? Illinois? Maryland. Yeah, Maine. Maybe there's no elk in Maine. Probably tough to kill a good bull in Maine. Yeah, pretty tough to kill a bull.

Well, let's just put some guidelines on it. The states that have elk in. Oh, okay. So he wants the best place to kill an elk? Yeah. Dude, I don't know. I don't like going state by state because it's just, it's like getting to deter people. from somewhere where it's like that would probably then be the best place.

Yeah. I think New Mexico's hard to beat for elk in my opinion. Yeah. I like the type of terrain there. I think the best state to kill an elk would be, I don't know, New Mexico. Yeah. That's my thought. Yeah. I've killed a few bulls there. I would, I would say, so how I look at it is if you have no other options, your state's the best.

Yeah, the one closest to you. Because I think, I think, think all things being equal, if you couldn't hunt anywhere, Oregon has to be at the bottom. I mean, it's kind of a shitty elk hunting state. But when that's all you had, like that is the only options I had, it was a great state. And I loved it because I got a chance to hunt elk every year because Oregon's kind of managed for opportunity as opposed to trophy where Arizona, you know, it's hard to get a tag in Arizona.

You might never hunt it, but if you do hunt it, you might have a chance at a good bull. in Oregon you can hunt every year. So to me, Oregon was amazing. But now that I've been at a lot of different elk hunting places, Oregon is not the greatest. Yeah, you're right. The best place is wherever you can get a tag. I think I'd rather hunt one unit five times than five units once,

like what you're going to learn. So there is that of like if you're coming to go elk hunting, being able to go to a spot, like where I elk hunt the most, I wouldn't travel to elk hunt. But it's just where I elk hunt. Yeah. It's like if you elk hunt where I'll count, you've driven through some of the best elk hunting in the world to get to me, right?

But it's what I know. So it's really successful for me. Yeah. And that's, that's, I think it's just as opposed to a specific state. Because you could say one state in every unit, every drainage is completely different than the next. Yeah. So there's places in like, well, you know, Arizona or there's some of the best bulls in the world and then there's places where it's really tough hunting.

Mm-hmm. So you just, it just depends. Yeah. I mean, Oregon's another good example of that and Washington and California for that matter probably. But like in Oregon on the west side, it's Roosevelt elk or a complete, that's a completely different animal than Rocky Mountain, say, you know, eco-cap wilderness. So it's, yeah, the state is hard to say what state is best because there's different features

in each state. but um what if you you get one elk hunt for the rest of your life and then you're done what where you but you get to pick and you get the tag every year no you get one tag for the rest of your life oh so you get one opportunity yeah where are you going to go uh i would go to san carlos and i'd be there with you never been there but it looks awesome so yeah let's go for it yeah let's go for it yeah Yeah, I mean, that has to be if you could only hunt one, one place and it had to be, that was it for your whole life. It feels like San Carlos would be a good one. Yeah.

Giant Bulls. And they've managed it. I mean, if you, there's these old videos. And I talked about this before, but it's like giant bowls of the San Carlos that I watch. I don't know how many times. We used to watch it at the Boarack, like on repeat. And it's been a producer of big bulls forever. And so, yeah, I mean, I don't, the way they manage it, they don't, they don't overhunt it.

So they've kind of protected that, the genes, you know, and, yeah. That's cool. So we're both hunting there. I'm in. Okay. That's a good question. Thanks, Tan. You got another one for us?

Yeah, this one is from AJ Watts 74. This one's for Remy. Back to the guiding topic. When, like, shopping for a guide or an outfit, what does? does someone look for to identify a good guide slash outfitter? That's tough because the good ones you'll know because you cannot get in. Right. That's just unfortunate.

The supply and demand is like the guys that are really good, it's really hard to get a spot. But outside of that, I would say you'd want to first talk to guys that have been there. references are a great way one of the things like when i was starting out i would give references are both successful and unsuccessful hunters talk to the guys that were not successful because those are going to be the guys that tell you how hard that guy works and the all the things irrelevant of their success there's some guys are like okay the success is high but it's just an absolute shit show and and and they just think like oh success will cover a multitude of sins it's like yeah they get a bull it doesn't even matter how horrible it was.

I'd rather talk to the guy of like, what was the hunting experience like? And does that experience line up with the experience you're looking for outside of just being successful? Like, is this the kind of hunt that I want to go on? Talk to the guys that weren't successful. And like if it sounded like this guy

worked really hard, I wasn't successful because of this. Maybe it was on them, maybe just tough conditions, maybe whatever. But hey, I had a really good hunt. I had a really good hunting experience because that's the, That's what separates the guys that are really good from the guys that are just, you know, have a bad experience. That would be my suggestion.

That's a tough one too because you know how men are. We don't like accepting responsibility for if they weren't successful or if I'm not successful, I got to be really honest to be like, yeah, that's on me. Most guys are going to blame for some reason. You know, most guys are overestimating their own ability. the time. And so yeah, if you can get a unsuccessful hunter who's honest about it and we'll just, that's very valuable. Yeah. It's a tough business, guiding and outfitting. It is. I mean, why do you enjoy it? I don't know. I think it was that. Glutton for punishment. Yeah, it was

that vehicle to get me hunting more. Right. It's like I had one elk tag, but I could go on, I don't know, 20, 30 L-cunts a year. Yeah. Essentially. But like, yeah, I wasn't the one pulling. I was doing everything, but the final pulling the trigger, releasing the arrow. Like literally everything. So even up like setting up the gun and you're like, okay.

So I knew it was like it was just the ability to continually be out there and continually be hunting. That was the vehicle for me. I said no other way to do it feasibly. Right. Like realistically. It's like how can I hunt all the time? That's how I did it. And I loved it. I still love it. Yeah. And then to like I think it's like a good it's a good showcase of testing your success to be able to get somebody something that doesn't have your skill set. Right. There is that kind of like you have to account for a lot of things. And there's a little bit of a pressure element that I like dislike but like just drives me.

Mm-hmm. What do you mean pressure element of like wanting to be successful for that person. Oh, okay. You know, like it's putting a little bit of pressure on or a lot of pressure in a way of like this is, you go into it, like, this is very difficult and now it's even more difficult and now I have to like go even harder in a weird way. Is I know what you're saying. I haven't guided, but I've taken a lot of people hunting. And there's times when I don't, I'm not, I guess I'm sort of speaking for him, but it feels like I want success more than they want success. And so you're like, I have had, I mean, because I hunt, I like being successful. I mean, it's like what drives me every day. And have you had that like being negative?

Like you're pushing too hard because you like have you, you know what I'm saying about? Yeah. You want it more than they want it almost. So it's different. Like if I'm on a hunt where I'm like the physical like the guy and that's my job, it's different than like if I'm. taking my wife or a friend or a new hunter out. Okay. And over the years, like, you kind of, I kind of approach those two things completely

different. Like when I got, when my wife started hunting, when I took her out, it was, I didn't, success was the last on the list. What was on the list was like the hunting experience and understanding, like, the things that I like about it. That's very healthy. Yeah. And also, like, in a weird way.

And I hope she'll probably like, hear this and be like, wait, what? Like, there was actually things that. I kind of did to deter success in a strange way. So she could learn? So she could learn. And also I felt like if she just went out and first morning, first day shot a deer, I don't think that she would have,

it would have meant as much than when she finally got a deer and like had worked for it. Right. Like there was this like, there's this part where you have to have that failure in hunting to understand how hard it is. And why it's special. And why it's special. Yeah. And so like I think sometimes we're taking a new hunt trout and they find this immediate

success because of your, because of my skill set, I think it would have done a disservice to her loving hunting for herself. Right. And so we started out bird hunting and it was like we would go with grouse and she'd take her bow like grouse hunting. And that was her first hunting experience. And it was actually a hard year to find grouse. So I'm like, oh, because she sees me go out and it's like, I'm very successful. and like I've put in the time I whatever so and I would let her make certain decisions and and have those like okay and then she would kind of go out on then she didn't get success so then she

really wanted it so she was actually going out by herself to try to get a grouse and then she would make some mistakes and like oh I shot at a bird but I didn't get it and then on her first uh deer hunt we were actually in Hawaii and there is a a dough that came out and she was rifle hunting on this particular hunt and it like it kind of offered a shot but it wasn't the best shot so I think she could have made it but I was like okay wait wait we're waiting for whatever and then it got away and I was very thankful that it got away because it led to a multiple other encounters and then this encounter with this buck and then I let her make some of the decisions and then it worked out and it was like that flood of multiple hunts where we maybe not you know not crazy hard stuff yeah but like multiple hunts

where you weren't successful and then having that success, I think that it just, that she became a hunter in that moment, not just somebody that had gone hunting. Right. Yeah, I mean, you need that roller coaster. You do. Yeah, to appreciate it, to grow, to know what it means to be successful. Without the lows, you know, that's another cliche.

You can't appreciate the highs, but there's never more true than it hunting. And I know exactly what you were saying. And I took this ultra runner out this year. And I was so glad that we didn't kill in the first unit logging you. We went to glass up a buck and have her kill a giant. I was super thankful that we had to do it in pouring rain, running down this spine ridge to get kind of head off this buck. On the fly, Tanner spotted the buck in the bottom of the creek.

It came up. It was like pretty hectic. She made a great shot. So thankful that it was that experience as opposed to. to just the first unit you get to and boom, it's over. Right. You know, it's just, it's, I don't know, it's amazing how much different of an impact that can have on you.

There's two different scenarios. It is. And I think that that's when you're taking someone out. And so that's one thing that I try to think of because I've taken a lot of new hunters out. And for me, it's getting those new hunters to understand hunting. Yeah. Like the whole hunt and the aspects of it.

of the hunt and be involved in that. But when I'm guiding, it's a little bit different. Like, it is part of that. But I kind of approach it in a strangely different way. You know, here's another vice I have is like, I love taking care of the animals so much that I, you know, my youngest son, I think he could do it on his own because he's seen me do it a million times.

but I always want to do it. So it's like I never even let the new new guy do it. You know what I mean? Or it's like, have you ever, is it hard for you to step back? I can't step back. I'm like, I'm very efficient it cutting and whatever. It's hard to walk somebody. I just jump in.

I'm like, here, just. And they're like, can I help? And I'm like, no, it's just more dangerous and slow. I am absolutely like the guy that does it. Yeah. But that's, yeah, I agree. My kids have, I feel bad for my, well, Tanner's done it, done it. But I feel bad because I'm kind of screwing up their learning process because I just do it.

Yeah, I think that's probably something I need to do is like do it and step back a little bit. Yeah. Because I'm always, I mean, I've done thousands of animals and I'm very efficient with it and like do a really good job, you know. And so it's like to see someone else do it, it's like, man, I just can't. I can't. I just like, get out of here or whatever. I just like, I either got to leave or I got to do it. Right.

I can't. I can't. I'm like a purpose because to me, it's like the meat is so important. I just have to do it myself. Like if, you know, if somebody fucks up and hits that bladder and it gets on the hindquarters or on the inside tenderloins, it's going to make me sick to my stomach. Yeah. I mean, I can't.

I don't know. You're right, though. I think that is something that I need. need to like, I need to relinquish a little control. It's tough, though. It is hard. It's so tough. Yeah.

It's funny my dad, like, uh, because I, you know, I, I hunt with my dad and, and, and then I wasn't with him and he was with a buddy of mine and he shoots a black tail. And he goes to my buddy. He was like, hey Josh. He's like, I'm not sure I even remember how to do this. He's like, it's been so long since I've even taken care of my own animals. honestly, Remy does it all the time. He's like, I think I'm going to need some help.

He's like, it's been like 25 years since I've even touched an animal. It's just funny. Yeah, I get it. And it's not like he doesn't want to do it. You just want to do it more than. Right. I'm like step aside. Yeah.

Yeah. Even with packing, I just like, you know, I mean, I want to pack the buck out for whoever kills it. And so it's hard for me to let that part. go. I love the whole, I love all of it. I love the hunting, but it's like all the rest of it too. And it's, uh, I don't know if that makes us unique or if other people are like that, but man, I couldn't imagine not being a hunter. Right. I don't, I don't even know what that life would be like. Like, what do you do? What? Like, what is a, I told Joe, hunting, I don't know what I would do. Yeah, I told Joe,

I'm like, I don't know what the fuck people talk about. No. I talk about hunting and if I did, I don't know what regular people, what do they talk? What do they do and talk about? No clue. I wouldn't know. I'm the wrong person to ask that question. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

Tanner, we got another one? Yeah, I got another one here. This is from our, our boy, Mike Merrill. Oh, yeah. Do you know Mike? He's like, he is perma grin, always in a good mood from Utah. kind of a, like, he's like muscular, always happy. Oh, I met him at, uh, yeah, Western Hunt Expo this year.

I've guaranteed. Yeah, yeah. He was there probably pumped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd shake your hand, probably break your hand. Yeah, I got pretty big hands. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I, yeah, met him. Stud.

Well, he's curious, Remy. What is your single most memorable hunt and why? Also, your desired bucket list hunt. Ooh, that's a good question. Yeah. My single most memorable hunt, I mean, that meal deer I talked about was probably one of a big buck was a very memorable hunt. 217. Yeah.

Not only was it a big buck. There's a really cool backstory. I don't know if we have time to go into it, but. We're not running out of memory. Yeah. I was like, so I mean, I essentially saved a lady's life, which led me to that buck, which is pretty wild. Not your wife? Not my wife.

This is someone else. You're just saving lives everywhere. I've done it a couple times. But yeah, like the backstory to that was like the part to me that's like, you know, in hunting sometimes it's like it's like almost like it worked out in a way that it was supposed to. It's like there is a reason that just not necessarily even a reason, but like, yeah, it's just weird.

Like it worked out in a way that like you couldn't. even fathom if you tried. Yeah. You know. But yes, I mean, now it's like, I was like, what's the story? Now we've got to ask the story. So it's kind of a long, it's a very long story, but I'll, maybe should I do an abbreviated version where you get the gist of it.

Okay. I mean, but like. I might have questions along the way, but go ahead. So it was summertime. And I was, so when I first started guiding, I was in school, both spring. So I would take spring and summer semesters at college, and then I would work from August, essentially, through January.

Guiding. Yeah. So it was like my last summer semester. It was like summer semesters. I'd cram in the school. So I was in school. But I also, at the time, I owned my own outfitting business, my last year of college.

So we were, I was, the property where I would outfit up, like, it was our base. camp. We were building, I was going to build like, we were going to build like an outdoor bathroom, kind of like an outhouse kind of thing, but like an outdoor shower system for the summertime. And so my, my dad and mom were going to go up there and do it, but I had all this schoolwork, whatever.

And so it was one of these things where I was like, I'm not going to go. But then I'm like, I'm like, okay, I'll go with you guys to help out. So I like, get in the car. I'm like, I can't go. I got this, like, final thing I got to. So I get out. They leave. I call them back.

I'm like, I'm going to go. You know what I? Like just this. I've never been so indecisive in my way. Very indecisive. I get, I, I get in, I go up. It's Father's Day. And we're building the outdoor bathroom.

And so I've got like my hunting boots on. I'm just like working. And the river, we're right on the river. And the river is flowing. It's like a river that might float 300 CFS and it's flowing at over 3,500 CFS. It's just ripping. Yeah. And it's super cold.

There's a really runoff like a big winter. It's just absolutely cold water. There'd been some people rafting down the river and they, you know, it's seen maybe a couple boats go by. But right where our corner is, there's like a huge rapid. And then it's a tight little river. So there's like if there's like a down tree up above, it's not something that you should be rafting. Right. Or it's just very difficult.

So working on the outdoor bathroom, I hear someone yell and I think, oh, maybe somebody caught a big fish, which is weird because it's like ripping water. Rivers going. But I'm like, for some reason I decided to walk to the river. I walk to the river. I see all this shit floating down the river. Like, that's not good. Somebody turned to their boat over. And then I just all of a sudden, this lady comes by floating face up.

She's like, help me. And so at this point, my mom's there. I grab my phone on my pocket and like throat during my call 911. My mom's streaming. Like, don't get in the river. And the lady's going toward the rapid. I'm like, you know, yelling to kick to shore and she can't move. Yeah.

So I just take off running. And like she hits the fast current and goes. I take off running. I essentially like sprint to the highway, sprint down the highway. And there was a car pulled over that did seen the stuff floating eye. by and she had hit the rapids it came close to the bank and there was a guy there and I yelled for him to grab her like he'd grab her and he like reached for her but I don't know if it was like he didn't get her and so she hit the fast current again and this point it was like she's gonna

this is it so I jumped in and I jumped in and I grabbed her and she went underwater did you have her boots on I had my boots on I was fully closed and so I jump in and grab her and we're going down every night. She went under. And so I, so I kind of like scoop her up in my arms and, and try to catch my footing and get her and pull her out. And so she's like, I get to her and like, you know, first, there's a guy, you've got to have your first age or all your stuff. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, now it's like rescue recovery. And I checked her pulse. She still had a pulse. It was faint. It was like her eyes were open, but no one was home. Yeah. So it was actually like as weird because instinctually I just started like yelling like look at me. Look at me like like. Yeah. Curl. Yeah. Like yeah. And like she she finally came to. And you didn't have to breathe in her at all. I think I did. I didn't do breasts, but I did compression. Okay. And so. I'm like, yeah, like look at me and like came to. And the sad story as well. Because she was like, where.

Where's Dave? And I'm like, there's no other person here. Oh, God. And so unfortunately, you know, a little bit later, her husband had died. And that right then. On the bottom, yeah, we ended up pulling him out a mile down the river, which is like a, it was pretty shitty. Yeah, that's terrible. Yeah, so we got him out, but he unfortunately passed.

By the time he came down, he was already deceased. God. Yeah. And so we, so anyways, I ended up saving her, but they, the, so I drew, I had a deer tag in this unit that same year. And there was a rumor of a big buck. The buck that I killed people had seen. But you know rumors like bar rumors? Yeah.

Nobody. Yeah, there's a giant buck over here. Everybody sees a 400 inch bowl or whatever. So I didn't. I was like thinking. about that buck. I didn't want to, um, you just, I get, I, you hear those, I just hear those stories all the time and it's never, never pans out. So I'm like, I've got the bow tag, or the tag, I'm bow hunting. I'd actually, this particular day, like snuck in on a good buck, had embedded

there and it was like, this just a rumor buck was in my head. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I just walk, I walked out and left that buck. It's like a 180. buck and just backed away from it off of a rumor and then I went to like the guy that's like you know the guy that hangs out at the bar the most like the guy that's like rumor guy verify yeah and I'm like hey dude I hear of a big buck is it true he's like yeah I heard it was in this particular spot so I go to that spot not knowing never had been to that particular spot go to that spot and there's a lot of private land around so I was like thinking uh I'm like dude I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not comfortable knocking on doors.

I guess not that guy. Yeah. I just hunt public stuff because I just don't have to ask permit. I just only have to deal with it. I just don't know. So I'm like driving and I kind of went to where he thought that he'd hurt. It was like telephone game like maybe here. So there's a house and I'm like,

dude, I'm just going to go drive down there and see. I drive down to the house. No one's home. And this is like Montana. Like you don't drive to people's house. Right. Like what's this for, you know, it's like awkward.

People come out with a gun. Right. So I'm like driving back out the long drive. And as I get to the road, a truck comes in. And I'm like, oh, great. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just got to talk to this guy. So I talk to him. And I'm like, hey, you know, I've got a deer tag.

And he's like, he like looked really, he was looking at me very weird. And I'm like, what is going on? He goes, are you Remy? And I was like, yeah. He said, you saved my best, my best friend's life. Wow. that woman was the best friend yeah and uh he was a friend of the the husband and her yeah and uh like i'm like well we just had like this like it was i was like whoa okay and i told him you know i'd explain

like oh yeah he's like he's like i don't know let me take you to my neighbor and talk to him so he brought me over to his neighbor and i got he's like this is this guy or whatever he's like yeah you can hunt whatever you want to do go ahead and the next morning is when i got in there and killed that buck Was that the 217? Yeah. That was it. Oh my gosh. So I mean just like the chain of events.

Oh. To lead to that? Like I look at that buck and I remember everything. You know what I mean? That's like that means so much to me. I actually just had that. I just, I had a pedestal mount and I actually took it to my taxonomous buddy.

I'm like, dude, take the antlers off and I'm going to get a reproduction made because if I was ever a fire or whatever, like if I lost every mount, every antler, I want that one this one deer because it just, It means so much to me. Like, it's just, I look at it and I just think about, like, it makes me think about life in a weird way. Oh, yeah. Like, that deer will never be replicated for me.

That's like, I mean. And it's just a wild story. Like, you just can't make that. No, no. I could not script that, you know? Nobody has a story, like, of a giant animal they killed. Because normally, like, if that question, it would be like, whatever. Right.

It's just like, oh, I had this hunt. I killed this giant, whatever. It was, you know, the animal. of my dreams but to have that also with that crazy life experience of somebody in need and helping them and then like the heartbreak of them losing their spats it's like yeah it's you couldn't you couldn't make up a story like that no and it also like in you know those decisions in life where you like i don't know i always like my dad like it's one of those things where you you have decisions in life and you're very torn like your head in in a weird way

like your head tries to talk your like gut feeling out of doing something where you're like no I got all this work to do but you feel like you should go do this is that like when you're waffling between going with your parents like I mean yeah I mean like I literally said I was going and not going a thousand times like my head was like I do not have time to go but for some reason I felt like I needed to go and I like they literally I got out of like we drove down the road they drove me back home I got I'm like, I don't know why they kept coming back. And then they left and then I called them again and they came out. Like, it's just why?

Like, there was just like. But if you wouldn't have been there, I mean, chances. She would not have made it. She would have died. Yeah. They said like even seconds more in the water. She would, she 100% would have died. Which you're like, you know, it's a sad story because, you know, somebody didn't make it.

But in a weird way, I just, I don't know. It's one of those things where you just like, that deer is just like a constant reminder. Yeah. And I try to like in my life like follow those how fragile life is. Right. Yeah. Do you ever talk to have you talked to her? Not.

I mean, I did talk to her afterwards. I've talked to, uh, I actually did tell that it was I don't know. It came up on another podcast. I think it was Joe's podcast and like other family members from them have reached out. I'm like like just knowing that story and whatever. Yeah. That's, you know, I've told the story. But I don't tell that story very often.

You know, I think I was saving it for my own podcast probably. Yeah. Like it's just a, it's a story that I don't know. It means so much to me. Oh, yeah. You know, you think about hunting and it's like, yeah, we're just, it's not rocket surgery. We're just killing animals. Yeah.

But there's certain things in like for me personally, like that that means them, that, that meant a lot to me. It means a lot to me. I mean, and also it's more than just a story. Right. You know what I mean? I mean, it's a life. I don't know something. I mean, it impacted your life.

For sure. I mean, we tell hunting stories just because they're good stories. Yeah. That's like something different, you know. And it's, it is. It's, I mean, it's, you know, it's life and death personified. And it's like you played a part in that. You, you know, did what you had to do in a moment of need.

And then also you killed this crazy animal. It's like, yeah, I mean, that's intense. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty wild. But, yeah, that would, and then I would say, like, just for a hunt, like, that didn't have, like, that crazy background of me to me. Yeah. Yeah. A fog-knack elk the first time I hunted it with my brother Jason.

That was just, like, a wild adventure that we got to do. The killing the elk was easy, easy, but the getting them out was hard. Yeah. Like, just an absolute grind. It was that, like. Long pack. Very long pack. Yeah.

Like, just where you get done, you're like, I'll never do this again. I've done it like three times since. Really? Yeah. But the bulls aren't, are the bodies big and the animal are small? Yeah, about 1,400 pounds or more. What? So like a moose and you're shooting them, like, where we shot him was miles away from camp

with, I think, 35 or more feet of elevation gain to get back to camp of gain and descent. Like a massive, a massive effort. Didn't Cory Jacobson have some crazy hunter too? Yeah, he called me before. His was on a different island, but I talked to him before that hunt. I was like, look, man, you're going to kill an elk. Like, I don't think that that's the problem. But, dude, these things are huge.

Like, most people, when they moose hunt, they aren't climbing a three, four thousand foot mountain through, like, there's no trails. It's just alder and devil's club and, like, wet and, like, massive winds and storms. And, like, the getting the bull was super easy. The getting them out was very, very difficult. Are they pretty calm animals that are then? Because they got bear, right? Oh, yeah. There's like brown bears everywhere.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, yeah. But like our experience on that hunt was the getting them out was stuff. Like I think it was we had, you know, I have to find my notes on it. But I think it was, it was a while now. It just seemed like yesterday and then you start to like lose the details, you know. But I think it was.

40 walking hours with 150 pound packs. Oh, God. See, that's why that rock was easy for you yesterday. There's only 70 pounds on the shoulder. Yeah, it was like 120 to 150 pound packs were average. And then, yeah, 40 walking hours on the GPS. So 150 pounds and 3,500 foot a gain? Each way there and back.

there. So one load would be like weight, you know, like no, no weight going back. But you have to go, there was a range in between where we killed the elk and us. So we'd have to climb up and over, back up and over. And was, and like verdict, like just steep, thick, shitty. Wow. It was, it was hard. Was there water on the side of you killed? I mean, you couldn't have the boat over there. Oh, no, there was water, but there's no, we didn't have a boat. We got dropped off by plane. Oh, and there's no... To the lake, yeah. Oh, the lake.

And there's no way you could have... I mean, it was 70 mile an hour winds. Like, there's no boat that's coming in to, like, get you. And we had no... I mean, like, we wouldn't have even been able to... Yeah. ...communicate with anyone. I don't think that we had...

As far as I recollect, maybe we had, like, a spot thing, but didn't even know how to use it. I'm not sure. Like, I don't think that that was a thing. I think it was just like, we'll see you in 15 days or 12 days. days or whatever. When you're, that just reminds me,

when you're hunting bear country, do you take a side arm? Yeah, I do now. Okay. I've done it without it. And it's pretty dumb now having experience. Yeah.

Because I hate taking, I never take guns. But I don't know why. I mean, yeah, in brown bear country though, I mean, like,

it happens so fast. I've been charged multiple times and it just happens so fast that like, you know, I had, I had bear spray in the past. and I just don't trust it. Like, I've never been in a situation.

Every time I've ever been charged as a situation that bears prey would be ineffective. Right. Because the wind is ripping. Because you probably surprise them more that way, right? Because they can't hear. Yeah, you're to get up on them. So I just carry like a, I've been carrying a 44 magnum,

just like the Smith and Weston PD is like super light. But I think I've just got like a 10 millimeter sig, I think. Where do you keep it? On my hip. Okay. Yeah, I can't deal with like the chest rig. Because they're, they're saying like, you know, SIG has, I said they made me something where it goes behind the binoculars.

I would do that. That would work. That would be kind of cool, would be? Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, it's just, yeah, I feel like you just have so much shit on. I know. I got Allen wrenches and wind checker and there's big binoculars, the rangefinder. Now I'm going to have a gun too.

Yeah. If I do that? I go like, I have, what I do is I have like a. soft. I just have like the cheapest, like essentially soft, um, holster and I put it on my belt. And then I have a, uh, like a, whatever you call it other kind of holster on my pack. So when I drop my pack, I switch it. Okay. Hmm. And do you practice with that? Yeah. Quick draw. Yeah. Yeah. Could make it happen. Yeah. Could make it happen. Yeah. I could. So the other part of that question was what's your dream hunt? Oh, yeah. We went down a raghole.

A dream hunt. Stone sheep. Oh, yeah. I want a stone sheep bad, but... You did it once already, right? Yeah. Yeah. Didn't get one.

Stone sheep. It's the last sheep I need for a grand slam. But it's not necessarily even the grand slam. It's like, since I was a kid, that's just been the one animal that I've always wanted. How come? Just love the way they look. Like the gray? Yeah, the gray.

And I don't know. I just like it. Yeah, I like them. They're amazing. I really want them. I've never hunted them, but again, like you, it's like they're so striking and beautiful. I mean, that slate gray hide, I don't know, there's something about sheep for sure, but those have to be like coast.

I don't want to, you know, don't want to disrespect the other species, but they got to be the prettiest. Yeah, they're the prettiest. I think they're probably the hardest to get to. Yeah. I don't know. What's your dream on? Like a bucket. Like I guess this is my podcast.

No, there's a question for everyone. Do you have one or is it? No, I mean, for a while I wanted to kill an African lion just because I like, I like high-stakes stuff. I like the bears, the brown bears, the grizzlies. I like the Cape Buffalo, you know, water buffalo aren't quite as aggressive. But I like those. I like the big stuff. So I thought, well, you know, an African-Luffalo.

lion on the ground with a bow. That'd be pretty sick. So I tried it one time and I just had a lion. I a lion that was by itself, no pride that was old enough. And then I got 67 yards from his quartering two. So I didn't take that shot. Then I went in the brush and I got somewhere around 50, but didn't have a clear shot.

That was my only chance. And now I don't know if I still want to kill one. That was 2014 maybe. Yeah. So 10 years ago, I thought that'd be, you know, a good challenge. I haven't really been thinking about it too much. I didn't kill one. But I don't know.

I just love, I like hunting blacktail here in Oregon. I like big bulls. Yeah. That's cool. I mean, I don't know. I thought about also, there hasn't been many Marco Polo or golly's killed with a bow.

Yeah. I thought that'd be a great challenge. Have you done that? I haven't with a bow. I've thought about it, but logistically. it's not that it would definitely be doable. Yeah.

But like finding. But only couple people have ever done it, right? Yeah. Because their hunt style is not conducive to bow hunting. Yeah. That makes it difficult. Like a friend of mine went, Pedro. Yeah.

He went and spent a lot of time trying. And I think it's just like the same problems I ran into is like if you could just get somebody that like, dude, I will pay you three times. Yeah. whatever to let me hunt how I want to hunt then you it absolutely is doable yeah but outside of that I think there's like no understanding your patience for bow hunting so it just doesn't happen yeah no I like I've talked to guys that have done it and they're like they're it's weird because they like do a lot they try to like drive them and do some weird stuff and he's like stocking in on one and they just like

decided the guys that he were with decided to just shoot toward the sheep with AK 47s to spook him to the guy that was stocking in. Not great for bow hunting. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I've seen video.

Of course, I haven't done it yet, but like a bunch of them up on the hill and they're shooting at a million yards seemed like to be tough bohunting. Yeah. I definitely think it'd be doable. There's a lot of sheep in some places,

certain times a year. But I just think like a lack of understanding of boll hunting makes it different. Right. I could get that. I've been on some hunts here in the U.S. where there's a lot of lack of understanding of boating with some guides and outfitters. But I could imagine over there especially because, yeah, bow hunting really isn't a thing. No. Yeah. It's, but man, those animals are. They're incredible. They're awesome. Yeah. They're really cool. We've got another one over there. All right. So obviously you guys are a lot of people's hunting Roma. models. A lot of people look up to you guys and value your advice. Who were your biggest hunting row models

growing up and why? Like what set them apart that drew you to them? That's a great question. Who was that by? That's AJ Watt 74 again. Oh, okay. You got two questions today. Nice. You had good questions. So, you know, you ask good questions. They're going to get asked. Yeah. All right. Yeah, go ahead. You go first. This is my podcast. You have to go. All right. Or need any more time. No, no, I know. Okay.

Okay. Growing up, Cam Haynes was my role model. Yeah, no, serious. Backcountry bow hunting book. Yeah. That was, that, like, really spoke to me. You know what I mean? I read that book cover to cover 900 times.

Like, I would bring it out hunting. Really? Oh, yeah. That was like, I read that book constantly. The Eastman stuff, like, that was big into magazines, but that was huge to me because as you think about like I kind of was on the edge of it was all white tail stuff

right in the magazines magazines TV like TNN outdoors right and it was like all white tail stuff and I just it just it wasn't my experience right and then it's like I remember like being a kid and Eastman would do the DVDs that came out and me and my buddies would get that DVD and it was the high

highlight of our office is like we would watch the Eastman's journal DVDs like we I would read the mag I'd read every magazine whatever kind of like western articles like cover to cover over and over and that like that to me was I mean like I learned a lot through articles and other stuff you know I think like that that was huge for me the whole like glassing stuff like we didn't glass grown up and then just like watching Eastman's video like about glassing. It's like, all right, we gotta get glass. Dude, it made me a better hunter.

And then I think, you know, it was always like the, like for backcountry bow hunting, that was like, you talked about it. Nobody else talked about it. And I'm like, oh, this makes sense. Like my mom's family didn't hunt, but they were into backpacking. And my dad big into hunting. So we were like, like we thought we invented it. What if we just?

combine the two. Whoa. No, but you know what I mean? Like, we knew zero people right. That backpack hunted. Like it wasn't a, like people are thinking about it now. Like, do you remember growing up and people talking about like backpack hunting? No.

It didn't, I mean, it didn't not exist, but right. You didn't know. Right. Like, I didn't hear about it. People that did it. Like we had no, there was nothing talking. No one talked about it. No one saw it.

Like unless you grew up with somebody that that was their style of hunting. Yeah. there were, but it was just like so foreign. Like people just didn't, you didn't know. Yeah. Like we had like a Celtie backpack. Yeah. Just like peanut butter, like a jar of peanut butter.

And that's your food for the week. And let's go. And the articles, the magazines were going to get to who read the magazine. And it's like the amount of backpack hunters, if there were any, was a handful compared to white tail hunters. Right. So they're going to go with who, you know, the big crowd. 90% of the hunters are white tail hunters. Yeah.

So Western hunting didn't get any love. They just got nothing. And so it was like there was a few books. Your book was one of them. There's a magazine articles. And then and that was really it. You know? And so it was like, oh, cool.

This is another thing. And then the other thing that I really liked, you would do the, there was a part in your book about solo hunting. And for me, it was like, I loved to hunt alone. But at the time, too, people didn't like. talk about hunting alone. It was just like go in hunter's safety. It was like number one, go hunting with a buddy. And I'm like, this is bullshit.

I want to go hunting when I want to go hunting. Yeah. I was hunting alone when I was, like, I think in Nevada, it was like 13 or 14. You could legally hunt alone with your parent permission slip. Oh. And I would just get a permission slip from my parents. So like just in case I got stopped.

Yeah. You said I could go, I'd just get him to drop me off and I'd go hunting by myself. So like, I just nobody could hunt as much as I wanted to hunt. Yeah. So that was, that was huge to me. And then to see that it was like, I don't know, just to hear a voice of like somebody else doing it. It was very inspiring to me.

Yeah. I mean, did, so what, like, I talked about fear of being in the mountains alone. Because when I first started, I like the idea of hunting by myself. But getting back there by myself, like way back. And, I mean, it was kind of intimidating. Was it intimidating for you or is that where the book helped? Yeah, I think it kind of validate kind of validate like yeah, it's it's it's a it's just yeah, I think that there was like that fear of it in a way. Because it's a different time, right?

We didn't, I didn't own a cell phone. No, I never like there was no there was not a iPhone. There was not a life plan. Mm-hmm. There is no like you just had to have a skill set that you would rely on yourself to get there and get home safe. And so I think that it was like building up that skill set was the kind of intimidating portion of it in a way where like, do I have what it takes? Yeah. Right.

And that was like, I don't know. If I could go back to any particular time, I would go back to the time pre-cell phones. Yeah. Because there was a certain level of just like get it doneness that I kind that you just kind of don't find anymore. Like right now, if you're like new into it and you're like, yeah, I'm going to go back. country hunting and like it's so much easier now yeah it really is like logistically the gear the phones that the in reaches the like the amount of comfort you have by knowing if something happened you could reach somebody or knowing exactly where you are because of your whatever go hunt or

on X map or whatever whatever you're using that we didn't have that we didn't have that we had paper maps paper and i didn't you i never even carried a compass I was just like a paper map and then walking in figuring it out. If you want to know it was on the other side of the ridge, you walked to the other side of the ridge. I remember like being alone, sleeping in a bivy sack. Like and just like that,

whoa, you just like in your head. I mean, I just my comfort thing was I'd build a little fire. Mm-hmm. There's a little fire. Okay. That's like,

I'm okay. Yeah. I'm okay. I don't know. It's, it's so different. It is. It's,

I don't know. There was a time I got stuck in New Zealand when I first started going over there and I buried my vehicle and I had to get it out myself and it took me four days. Jeez. And I was like, now you just drop it like in reach

be like, hey, can someone come help me? Yeah. I'm like no dude. I like literally carried rocks from the river to here, stacking rocks. Like I think I carried two ton of rock to get like build a road to get my like every time I take six or seven rocks in the bog to jack the vehicle up, stack it with rocks, back it out a little bit.

And like, those were the times, right? Like you, my buddy, you know, I just tell people like, hey, I'm leaving. I'm coming back in X amount of days. Yeah. Like, yeah, you were a day late. I was getting, I was thinking about going back up there tomorrow, see if I could find. Yeah. No, that ingenuity and just survival, just doing, okay, how am I going to survive?

You know, it reminds me of when Roy killed a ram, that acquittal lake area, But he had, he told me he had a machete and he had to cut, you know, the bottoms are so brushy, devil's club and all sorts of stuff. But he said he macheteed for three days to get up and then he killed a ram. But it's like, I love those stories about the days of, like you said, four days to get your truck and stuck. He macheted for three days and then killed her. That's like, that's what I love. Yeah. You know, the, I don't know.

everybody talks about like the old olden times or like they kind of romanticize the past and maybe that's what we're doing now too but yeah that that just being in there and I had a topo map and I could just look at it and I just like try to find a bench and then look and see where I was and like if it was if a storm came in if it's cloud and you couldn't see like features land features you're like you're done where the fuck am I yeah no 3D maps no I love that part. So much. Well, I just missed that like in some ways, that exploration.

Yeah. Like I just felt like I was exploring things and it felt, it just felt so wild. And maybe I've just done it so much now. But I feel like there's a little bit of that that's a little bit lost like that pioneerism. And I mean, right, like generations before us, it's always been changing. But I think I was kind of like right on the cusp of those things. So I'm really thankful that I got. got a lot of good time in without the...

Yeah, I think it definitely made us better hunters for sure. I mean, because you have to be good at just, not only just problem solving, but woodsmanship. You know, where are you going to camp? Where are you getting wood for a fire? Where are you getting water? What are the animals? You're just like all this experience of surviving back there.

I mean, your slogan is live wild. I mean, that's what it is. Yeah. It's like you're living just like an animal wood back there. That's why I would. was, you know, in the book, I wrote a lot about bivouac hunting. I loved the freedom of having everything I needed on my back. And it didn't matter where I went, you know, 20 miles from where I am right now or

over the ridge or wherever and just being there and surviving. Yeah. That is. And like, I didn't know anything about bivouac hunting. And it was like that spoke to me. That changed my life in the way that I hunted. And so it was like, yeah, that's why. that was the answer, you know.

It's probably, I don't know. It's probably weird being like sitting across from me. Like, no, but I mean, it's very impactful. And I think it's important when people, you know, for like when I was doing this, like this is what I want to do and seeing other people that, you know, kind of in their, in your own way, not necessarily emulating, but like just seeing what somebody could do and accomplish. Yeah. Yeah.

I think there's a path there. Yeah. It might be a little bit. different, but at least got, okay, this is a thing. Yeah. Because you have to know it's a thing. Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, for me, it was like, you know, I guess I loved writing.

I loved reading articles just like you, the magazines were like, you know, I miss the magazine days, to be honest. Yeah, me too. You know, that everything on social media, I mean, it's okay. It's great. We're able to reach way more people than we ever could, but there's something about, I'd go to the supermarket or the bookstore and just look at all the magazines, read all the magazines, buy them, do everything.

But so I, I love Dwight's shoe. He wrote great articles. I have watched Elk Fever, which was Larry Jones and Dwight Shue and Steve Jones' Larry's son was on there. They, you know, Elk Fever One was just, you know, got rented at Mohawk video down here and watched it. I don't even know how many times. So those guys.

And then it was Randy Ulmer because he was like doing always killing giant things somehow. Big smile, incredible photos. But the guy who I remember who was chronicling their hunt like Roy and I tried to do was this guy Jim Hodson. And he was just bow hunter from central Oregon. But he would go to Codiac Island. He had pictures of Sick of Black Tail. And he had all his pictures in an album all blown up to 8 by 10. And he did a seminar at the bow rack.

Wayne had him down. And we were just looking at all those photos, just so just incredible photos of these adventures. And we hadn't been anywhere besides Oregon. And we're looking at this guy with these big glossy photos of amazing bow hunting adventures. And we're just like, this is what we want to do like this. So Roy and I always were focused on photos from those days.

And so seeing just great photos, stories telling of great adventures it's always what would always say is like you got a story what's a story yeah if you don't have any good stories what the fuck have you been doing with your life i want to hear a story it's tough to beat your story about the giant buck and saving a life i mean that that one's going to be like but that's that's what we're talking about you can't you can't ever emulate or i mean repeat a story like that but we're looking for an adventure where you tell the story and people are like, they're impacted. Yeah.

That's what we do. And that's, to me, that's what Living Wild is. I mean, what's the story? Yeah. You know? I mean, I don't know. That's who inspired me was like those, and it was always bow hunting for me. I don't know.

Did you read rifle hunting articles too? Yeah, I mean, I would, more for like the tactics and things, you know, what I mean? I think like the bow hunting stuff though is what I gravitated towards because there there was a lack of Western there was like a lack of Western stuff then there was Western stuff but there was a lack of like Western archery stuff yeah right so it was always like kind of seemed like a lack of something that I was really interested in yeah what how we used to or I don't know But we always, it was like a chip on our shoulder, you know, like Western hunting got no love, basically.

And I remember getting in the industry and they would tell us how the market broke down. It's like, no, we can't, we're not going to have some Western whatever because hardly anybody hunts out west. You know, south and the east, that's where the, that's where all the consumers are. So we were always fighting that like for respect, you know. And then we look at those guys and be like, fucking sitting in a tree stand, let's get in the mounds. Yeah. This is, this is hunting. So we would like, we had that chip on our shoulder that like we're real hunters.

You know what I mean? It's like I don't, I can appreciate all of it now. But when I was a young kid, it was like we felt disrespected almost. Oh, yeah. I mean, right? Oh, 100%. It was like all camouflage was for real tree and mossy oak. And it was like had nothing to do with any.

anything out west no yeah now now I feel like you know maybe out west has been you know talked about more it's like no we're just the white tail guys have been doing it forever yeah it's just finally kind of in some ways like tables have turned probably I almost you know yeah I mean not fully but like it gets a lot we're getting more love we're getting more love I mean it's more you know I've used the word before but it's more romanticized now because Most people do dream at some point of a Western hunt, I think. Either killing a big bowl or maybe a big buck or going to Alaska. It is the dream for most hunters.

Because as we talked about it, it's that big adventure. It's actually living wild where there's nothing wrong with getting in a tree stand and waiting out a big buck, you know, a buck you have on trail camera. That's great. That's not necessarily living wild. Yeah. You know, and so the dream is like, I want to test myself. I want to test myself in the mountains.

against, you know, on these epic adventures. And there's something that draws men to do that or certain men. But yeah, we're getting more love now. I do want to wrap up. So I'll wrap this up, but I want to talk about just in closing. So your role in the industry. So we went, you explained where it started, like we weren't getting any love in Western hunting and trying to find somebody who identified.

or you could, you know, relate to. And so now you're like one of the biggest names in hunting. How does that, how does that feel now to be like, you're like the guy people look to and they follow and you help them. You're the expert. Yeah. You know what I mean? How does it feel?

And like now you're making, so you own your own company. You have employees. You're like, you know, you're a business. Yeah. How does that feel? It feels it's kind of weird in some ways because I still like in some ways keep to myself where you don't really realize like you don't see it all the time. But then you do see it and you're like, whoa, okay, like I'm the person like at the Western Honexpo recently. I had a younger guy that's kind of like doing the stuff and he's like, you are the guy that I grew up.

Like I'm the guy that he grew up looking at. And you're like, whoa. Like this is this is cool that you're like impacting. people's lives in a positive way. You know, it feels it's pretty, in some ways you're like, oh, it's a dream come true. But also I think that like people don't see the hard work and intention behind things. So when you're like doing the hard work and you're getting there,

like you feel fulfilled in a way of like, okay, like the plan, not necessarily the plan, but like what I put in is coming to fruition. Yeah. And I think that that feels good. in a lot of ways. But also, I think, like, for me, it's just the coolest part is when I talk to people or whatever, and they're, like, inspired to do something that maybe they wouldn't have done or they've learned something or they've found success because of something that I did that helped them in some way.

Like, I've always said, I feel very fortunate to get to spend so much time doing what I love. Like, I love hunting. I'm not doing this for any other reason than the fact that I love hunting. and that's just me personally, right? Like I've made a business and other things, but it's because I love hunting and it helps me hunt. Yeah, like it's just, yeah, I just, I love hunting. I feel very fortunate that I get to spend a lot of time hunting.

I feel like I've got to learn a lot and hunted a level that I feel like is probably hard to get to because people can't put in that amount of time. Right. But I also feel like it was very hard for me to kind of get to that level. So I like sharing that. information and knowledge with people of like how to make if you love hunting but maybe you only get a week to hunt a couple weekends here and there how can I make your time more successful more impactful more valuable and so that's kind of like where I put my focus right that's good I mean because it's true

it's like if you're only getting out for a week at a time it's can you'll never accumulate accumulate the experience that you have and learn what you have so it's like I get what you're saying because it's really easy to sit back and say, man, I wish I could hunt as much as Remy. And you're like, this is a lifetime of decisions to get to this point. You know, I mean, it wasn't just I like to hunt, so I'm just going to hunt more. You have to set up your life to build to support that, that dream. And so you have. And so now it's really easy for people to look back and say, oh, man, that must have been nice to be able to do all that stuff.

but it's that you mentioned a word intention. I mean, you have to be intentional about it. Yeah. You know, and your intention was always like, I love to do this. I'm going to pursue opportunities that allow me to do it more. Yeah. And that's...

Yeah, and I was very intentional about it. You know, I think that, like, there's certain things that I intentionally waited later in life of, like, a family and that kind of thing. Like, I, you know, knew, like, there's guys that guide and they, whatever. And you just, I had to be very intentional about a lot of things and choosing the things that I was focused on.

And it's a lot of time and a lot of hard work and a lot of grinding in a way, but I loved it. So it didn't feel like work. But it just was something that I loved. And then, you know, I gained the time and the knowledge and the experience. And then through that, was able to build something else in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you've been.

you've kicked ass the whole way through. I mean, from the outside in, I mean, it seems like everything you've done has been successful. And but I get it where it's, you know, I mean, you're here now. We did the lift run shoot yesterday. Like years ago, I was doing this and people would make fun of me for training for hunting. Yeah. You know what I mean? And now I got people who are coming to share the experience.

So it's like, I get it. I've been all part of that journey. And, you know, we get criticized. no matter what we do along the way. And it's like, I can handle criticism if I'm doing what I love and I am and you are. And what's there to complain about? Nothing. Well, Remy, I mean, I appreciate the kind words you said about the book, you know,

when you were coming up. But honestly, I mean, when I look at you and I look at hunting as a culture right now and where we're at, you're like on the forefront of it, I get, you know, I think you deserve all the respect that you get and all the attention you get. And it's like I'm honored to share part of your journey with you, but mostly I'm from the outside end looking at what you've done and accomplished and so proud. And I'm just honored that you're here and we shared a couple days and you did the podcast and it's like, I don't know, I very much value you. Well, thank you. I really appreciate that.

Yeah, thank you. Now we just got to get out and go on another hunt. I know, we do. Yeah. Let's, let's, I don't know. I mean, where do you hunt access? No. Oh, you did? Yeah. So I'm going to go there.

Oh, nice. I think next month. Oh, sweet. So yeah, maybe we'll link up. Yeah, there you go. All right. Well, thank you, Remy. Everybody else.

Thanks for the guys with the questions, Tanner. Thank you. Everybody else, keep hammering.