Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 073 - Lena Miculek

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Join us for a discussion with Lena Miculek, 9x world champion American practical sport shooter, founder of ROSE by SIG SAUER and firearms instructor. Cam is now part of the SIG family! Listen in on a great conversation about Lena’s background in competitive shooting. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Lena: https://www.instagram.com/lena_miculek  Thank you to our sponsors: Sig Saur: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM for 10% off GoHunt: https://gohunt.com/ use code CAM when you sign up for $50 towards the gear shop + 10% off the GoHunt store Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv  Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Lena & Recapping the Day 0:03:55 Learning How to Shoot & Having Fun with the Process 0:09:59 Asking Questions & Being Aggressive  0:13:25 The Difference Between Men & Women in Shooting 0:16:19 Gun Owner Statistics & Online Gun Education 0:20:38 Lena’s Parents & Facing Fearful Challenges 0:27:56 ROSE by Lena Miculek 0:30:07 Ad Break 0:31:54 Lena’s Dream for the Firearm Industry 0:39:51 Preconceived Notions of Gun Owners 0:44:55 The Success of the SIG ROSE Line 0:53:53 Who Inspires Lena 0:58:24 Lena’s Background in Shooting 01:09:07 Competing for the World Title 01:16:09 “Misses Only Win, When They Distract Us From Our Next Shot” 01:18:35 Lena’s Lift. Run. Shoot. Experience 01:20:31 Lena’s Advice for Cam to Get Better at Shooting 01:27:19 Visualization During Shooting 01:35:22 Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right, we're here on the Key Pammary Collective with Lena Mitchell Lake. Ooh, that's me.

Is that good? Yeah, you said it. Okay, I've been practicing for two days saying your last name. And it's really been like kind of every hour of every day. It's been real commitment to the training of saying the last name. And I've said it different pretty much every time. Yeah, but not this time. This time he said it right.

Every reference on the internet, I'm going to say say it like Cam does. Mitch Lick. Yeah. That's me. Okay. Well, for those that I don't know, you're a badass. What are you? Say it again.

Oh, say it again. My title that I say is that I'm a professional marksman or professional competitive shooter. That's my normal day job. But now I focus also in firearms education, teaching, and product development all within the firearms world. Nice. A little bit of all. Yeah. But I got my start and my name and all that from the competitive side.

And shooting competitions. And your resume was like world champion? Tell me about that. I currently hold nine world titles in five different shooting disciplines. So rifle only, shotgun only, pistol caliber carbine, multi-gun, pistol rifle and shotgun all together. Oh, and a competition called the NRA World's Greatest Shooter, where you show up and all of the gear is supplied and you compete in 12 different disciplines of shooting within one competition.

Wow. So that, that one's real fun. How often is that one? It went on a hiatus. It just came back this year. So we'll see, we'll see. Hopefully I'll be able to make it next year to it. Yeah.

It's fun. Sounds fun. Well, you're definitely good. We just got done shooting today. You know, obviously world titles would say you're good, but it was fun getting lessons from you out on the range because I don't know shit about it. Well, I appreciate you showing up with an open mind because specifically with how I teach, it's very much so about, like, finding the right answer for you. and some people really want that like cookie cutter answer like tell me how to stand tell me what to do exactly and this is more of like a I know where we're going where we're going let's figure out how to get there the best way for you so thanks for letting me push on you and kind of challenge you

yesterday I was totally outside my comfort zone all day long from the trail to the gem but it was awesome and you are a tremendous guide through that And side note, I really appreciated in the very beginning your mentality towards all of the other runners and just like people being out and about, you're so welcoming to them. Like everybody that ran by, you're like, good job, good job. So it makes it very comfortable for someone like me to come in into these fields that I'm not confident in and on camera do them. So I'm glad that or I at least hope that the range felt the same way for you, you're welcome and you can you can fail out there because it's the only way to get better yeah it's we're in our safe space circle of trust yeah so i got to go to my safe space today the range

and take you yeah that was a hoot well i i just love seeing people out being active so yesterday on the trail you know yeah it is everybody they deserve a good job because they're out there climbing the mountain and on the trail and living you know a healthy life so yeah i'm always going to be supportive of people out doing that. But, you know, a lot of your lessons today, it reminded me of how Wayne teaches people how to shoot a bow, too, because he, much like you, he starts in literally from the ground up with foot position. And you talked a lot about your connection to the ground and, you know, the eagle talons with the toes and being, you know, being in that, that, I don't know what stance would be, but it's like prepared stance or like a-

You're shooting stance. It's specifically made for shooting because we want it to do that job to the best that it can do. So if it's a stance or anything else, it's not going to be the best it could be for shooting. So today we found our shooting stance. It's not going to be real good for anything else. But man, is it going to help us get rounds on target? It was, I don't know, I had so much fun. It's just fun shooting a gun.

It is. It is. And I liked getting to work with you because it was. you have control and accuracy. You know, like, you didn't show up and we're like, I can't hit the target. We got to figure out these techniques. You showed up and you're like, man, here I can just put them in this little group.

So it's like, yay for me, because now I just have to show up and push you to the limits of being really uncomfortable and like seeing that group go from this to this. But now we're shooting in half the time. Right. You saw how like in the beginning there, you were getting your first shots off in three and a half, four seconds. And to the end there, you're getting four shots off down range in that same amount of time

and maintaining acceptable accuracy. But if you're not willing to push to that like really messy, ugly part where your target groups are like this, you'll never get there. Right. So, but you did. You showed up and so many people are unwilling to go through that messy phase of targets because it's. Yeah, it doesn't feel great. No. No, you're like, oh, man, I'm sure you.

like them all in this little group. But you push speed today, you pushed your limits, we found them. And then it's just like now staying at that speed. And eventually you'll find that same level of control, that same level of accuracy. And then guess what? Push speed again. Yeah. You never get to stop.

You never get to get cozy in the action shooting sports because we're always points and time. Right. And that's, I mean, that is a big difference between archery. Because, you know, when I'm shooting an arrow a lot of times with hunting, it's just that, you're going to get one shot. You know, so there is no rushing. You really want to take your time, make sure you're doing everything right, make sure that anchor feels good, make sure the levels or that your site's leveled up. There's a lot of different checks and balances.

So it takes me about nine seconds to shoot. So I, that. Because you only got one. It's got to be the only one. Yeah. And even like, even. Even when we're just practicing though, like even like you yesterday with your new bow, it's still that group size. You know, so you're taking your time with each arrow and you want to have a tight group.

So, you know, I parlayed that mindset out on the range today. And I, you know, when I was first shooting, I thought they were decent grouping. And it was very good. It was literally like it was this. So that was the focus. And then you, you know, said, okay, let's make it quicker. And that we never do that in our. really. But yeah, it was good because I don't know. I liked it. It's just something different,

but I still think that there's some lessons I can take from how you taught me today that I can, it's a little bit of a crossover into what I need to do. And mostly just about intentional thought, having a plan, knowing that everything, we're doing everything for a reason. You know what I mean? And that can help anybody in anything they're doing. Absolutely. And, No matter what you are learning, if you have this approach of being really curious about why we're doing everything, it makes the process one way more fun. Because it's fun to be curious. Like, look at kids. They're having a great time and they're curious about why the sky's blue.

So we should at least be able to get some curiosity about a passion that we're pursuing. So it's like when I got the opportunity to learn how to shoot a bow, it's like, oh, man. Let me ask all the questions like, why are we doing this? Why is our elbow like this? Why is our weight? Where are our hips? Why are we doing this? What are we going to do?

Because also if I don't walk away with the why, because I sadly only get an amazing way in my life for like an hour. Right. If I don't ask the why's, then when I go, I'll have no ability to do it on my own. So if I don't walk away with actually being able to do it, at least I can walk away with the understanding. and then I can work by myself on how to do it. So I hope in leaving the range, even if you're not getting the outcomes that you want, you're understanding why you're doing things and how they are producing a certain outcome. Because our target, whether it be an archery target or a pistol target or a rifle target,

it's always a direct reflection of our technique and us in the moment that we took the shot. And it's really honest. It's like brutally honest, actually. Like, I don't like to listen to it a lot of times, but it's also the only thing that matters. Yeah. So if our target's telling us something's not good, then it's back on us. Even if it felt good. Adapt.

Yeah, adapt. It changed. What can I try different to make it better? Well, and you would say today, like, how did that one feel? And you already knew it probably felt like shit. But you were just asking because you wanted me to say it didn't feel good because, you know, whatever. And I mean, you were watching, you know, my trigger control or being too aggressive or whatever it was. But you could tell that it shouldn't have felt good.

So it's like a reinforcement. Like, no, it didn't because you were watching so you knew. And most importantly, why? Yeah. You know, like I tell this to a lot of students. I have taught quite a few people. And I remember, oh, forever. There's a big learning moment as an instructor.

I watched one of my students shoot the best they had ever shot. Like, blew this drill out of the water. And I was so excited. I ran up. And I was like, why? What happened? tell me all about it. And he went,

felt good. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. What felt good about it? Yeah. All connected. And I was like, okay, but like, what did you do? Yeah. Like, why did you get this outcome?

Because you've never had it before. Right. No idea. Oh. It was like, like just a blessing came down from above. Like, it just was. It just is. And in contrast, had a shooter that was super.

superb showed up, shot the worst that I had probably ever seen her shoot. As soon as we got to the end of it, I said, what did you see? What did you feel? Tell me about it. She was like, man, I was thinking about something else. And then my support hand wasn't lined up. And I just decided to try and make it work. And then on the end, I was just fed up. And it's like, yes. You might not have gotten the results you wanted in the moment, but you have the understanding to be able to get those results in the future. And make them repeatable. Because it's not just this. like, yeah,

got lucky. It felt good. Yeah. It's like, okay, like what felt good? Right. She understood the process.

Yeah. Like, was it your stance? Was it your grip? Was it your sight picture? Did you, like something made this better. If we don't know why, then it doesn't do us any good.

Right. So even if we're doing bad, as long as we know the why, however, ugh, how much do we want to beat ourselves up about it? As long as we know the why, it will be able to lead us to a better place. Yeah.

And, you know, you mentioned the questions. That was the first thing Wayne said to me after whatever he showed you, then he came back and he's just like, oh, she's smart. She's smart. She's, you know, she's whatever. He just like so impressed by your questions, you know, and how good you were on just following his process or his lessons.

But yeah, the herd bull, he's taught so many people. And it's like, again, another thing that he said, and I heard him tell, I think you yesterday, but he tells everybody. He's like, get mad. You know, I remember when he said, get aggressive? He's like, you want to kill that thing. But the point is, is he's saying, like, you lean slightly into it, you know, you're, because people get lazy with their hips and they lean back.

But he's all like, be aggressive with that shot. Like you're intentionally, you want to kill something. And so that is very similar to shooting the pistol today is you want to be on, you know. Aggressive. Aggressive. Yeah, it's like when I was pushing on you guys. There's a point in when, with every single one of my students, I'll go and I play recoil. I push on the front of the gun under the trigger guard to be that to see how your body reacts to it.

And then you see how like Tracy especially, she found that forward lean, that aggression. And she was like, oh, whoa, this is like, this feels totally different. And I told her it's the difference in the gun owning you and you owning the gun. Same with like being aggressive and being into it. Like one, you're in control. The other, you're just kind of like, hmm. Yeah, you're reacting. Whatever happens happens.

Like, we're not about that. Right. A little bit more control. Aggression. I love aggression in students because you can always take it down. But it's hard to find people that push really hard. And I appreciated you pushing real hard. How, what's the difference? Is there a difference between men and women just in general? Because you've taught probably all types, all whatever.

Is there? Um, hmm. The smaller you are, whether you be a man or a woman, the smaller you are, the more technique you have to have the same outcome as someone that just has more body mass to throw around because recoil management and other things. So technique is king, especially for women. We're also working with like less muscle mass and other strengths. So technique is like our passing lane. We can't be sloppy there. We have to be super efficient with all that we have to work with. So there's a difference there where guys can kind of like muscle through things. So they're usually not quite as

detail-oriented. But I find that the biggest difference in Marxmen between men and women is more so the mindset. Women are typically the detail-oriented ones, the planners, the ones with questions, the ones that are like, I'm going to dip my toe in, and then I'm going to think about if I want to jump in. Guys, you can usually just be like, come on in, just jump on in. They're like, yeah, here I am. So that mindset is, I think, the biggest difference in how you, you educate and motivate them to come back because shooting is a process. You know, we got one day in today and you've seen how far you've gone, but there's a lot of steps to go if you're trying to achieve like a certain level of efficiency and predictability

with your shots and your skills. So how you kind of entice them for more is different. Guys usually competition and having a buddy there and like a bar and someone to chase is a great motivator. And women, it's more about making sure that they know that the failure part, that messy target part, is their aspiration. Because in being perfectionists, like that shot goes out like Tracy once he goes, is when she was missed. It was like, I could just see it. Oh, oh, it was just like fail. And it's like, no, no, like we're going to miss. It's the only thing guaranteed on the range is that we're going to not hit our target sometimes.

So when we hit it, we should be more surprised than when we miss it. But it's that mindset of being too harsh, I think. Yeah, self-critical. Yeah, not giving ourselves the grace to learn. Right. You know, like, this is a process. There's a lot of steps to it. And all of those steps are going to be messy for quite a while.

That's it. And then as soon as it gets cozy, guess what? Then I come in and I'm like, go faster. Faster. And it's messy again. So it's like accepting that thing that we consider ugly as being great. Yeah, I was pretty interested also when you said something about there's a stat about people, first time gun owners. Yeah, there's a stat that, well, oh, there's multiple stats.

One is that in the past, like three, four years since COVID, about 50% of all new firearms owners are women. So we saw the pandemic really push the female demographic to us looking for products to help them feel secure and happy in their lives. There's also another stat that I talk about that is like over 95% of guns purchased are never fired. So it's that there's a lot of gun owners out there, but there's not a lot of high level and confident and competent gun users, which is my biggest beef in. Kind of like what I face in the industry because education and training is just going to make the whole world better. Yeah. Like if everybody had a gun and they are all super well trained. Peace.

Peace among all for mankind. That's right. So that's my Miss America speech. I'm working for peace. World peace. Gotcha. That's noble. Thank you.

Yeah. So what's the like what's the answer to that? Like people who buy guns. And you said like. because of COVID women bought guns. It's like because they felt it was just like a scary time, felt out of control. Who? Fear.

Because of fear. Fear. And so they wanted to have a little bit of control in one part of their life and thought, okay, if I have a gun, at least I have protection. But then what's the answer for people who don't know, you know, YouTube or how do they learn how to shoot it and handle it correctly? I mean, you can always go to the YouTube University. There's a ton of fantastic people.

The Sig Academy is one of the most renowned locations if you're willing to travel and take classes. They literally have everything from armors, classes, to house clearing to foundational pistol rifle, everything. They do it all. But the YouTube Academy is the best. I, with my product line with Rose, have a free online educational series

that follows along where we start from the very basics. Like, let's learn how to hold a gun. Let's learn how to load our mags properly, all the way to structure dry fire training, which was the training that we did on the range, solidifying all those techniques before we even incorporate ammo,

and then some structured live fire training. So there's a lot of resources out there. But during COVID, when we talked about, like, the fear and pushing people to it, all of these people were, in my mind, the ones that were like on the fence about guns. And they didn't like them. You know, for a reason.

There was a reason they weren't firearms owners before. And COVID came and it was just something scarier than the gun. Right. But it didn't push the majority of them to become that confident user. They just got a gun, stuck it in their closet, put it under their bed and we're like, dear Lord, I hope I don't have to use this. Which isn't provide. once again that freedom, that feeling of being self-sufficient that we hopefully all strive

for a little bit. So providing everything that that new owner needs really became my mission. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, you got to provide them in. You got to welcome those ladies in and be like, I got you. I got you safe storage. I got you training. I got you online community.

I got you in-person events. you in person trade, like, what do you want? Yeah. Yeah. I got you. I hope I can get it covered for you. If I don't have the answer right now, give me a minute, give me a couple years. You know, you've done a really good job with that because for the same way COVID had an impact

on self-sufficiency, if you talk about firearm owners, but people thought that they need to learn how to hunt, right? Because people went to the store, there was no meat at the store, people didn't know what was going to happen with, you know, buying food or so they thought, man, I need to learn how to provide for myself. There is nobody out there like doing what you're doing with Rose. And like I want you to explain that six hour and your partnership with them. You guys collaborated on on this a line called Rose and it's specifically for women. Tell me about that. And that's, I mean, how awesome is that I can tell that like it's a huge passion of yours.

Yeah. It's literally my dream come true. So a little story time here. We go. Okay. Here's a little Lena at 15 starts her professional competitive shooting career. Does that all the way up until COVID. That's like 200 plus days a year on the road competing, the rest of the time training, just shooting guns all the time. Towards the end of that, once I turned 21, you know, Conceal Carry could be an option for me. And I dived into that market and was quickly overwhelmed. What gear do I use? this doesn't fit into my lifestyle. So I didn't do it.

I was super lazy. I had my permit, left my gun at home all the time. And then I had a realization for me, and it's my why, all about the why, why we do stuff. And I found my why for carrying. And for me, it was that I had the mental ability. I had the physical capacity to be able to have this firearm in my life and on me. but I was choosing not to. And in doing so,

and choosing not to take on the responsibility of my own personal protection, it's also choosing that someone else would have to come in for me. Whether it's... To protect you? Yeah. Whether it's me yelling out

and someone being kind enough to come in or a police officer, whatever it may be, I'm pushing this responsibility onto someone else and what happens if they lose their life? Mm-hmm. Not good. Oh, and that for me, it's like, I.

Lose their life trying to help you. Because of something that I had the resources and the ability to take on, but just chose not to, because it didn't feel like it. I couldn't find the right answers for me. And that was like unacceptable. As soon as I made this realization, had my little boo-hoo in my car, and was like, how selfish of me? Can't do it.

Can't do it. So that was my big why. Dove and concealed carry. bought everything I could find, took a lot of classes, learned a lot of stuff. And then COVID came. And through facing those unknowns in the world of concealed carry and taking on their responsibility of my own personal protection, also gave me the confidence to pretty much during all of COVID, solo travel with my dog across the country.

Like everybody else was stuck at home and I was like, I'm out of here. Load up letting. And you felt safe. We're going. Yeah. And I finally had taken on this responsibility so I could do it. And I felt safe doing it. Obviously, I made good choices.

Right. Yeah, you're still going to be smart. Yeah, still go be smart. But it just opened up a whole new world to me. And it was awesome. And I got to face fears and accept new things into my life. And then COVID came. And I saw everybody else just ridden with fear.

Afraid of everything. Yeah. All the time. And my family has a lot of tradition. No, actually, no. My family has no traditions outside of winning matches. And my mom has me and her every year, we pick a fear of ours and we face it as directly head on as we can. So like first thing we did together is I don't like heights.

So we jumped off a 108 story building together with rock climbing and skydiving. I don't like water. I talked to you about that. So I got scuba certified. We went scuba diving. And then we went scuba diving in a flooded mine system because we also needed the dark. in the cold. And there's been other things like that all the way down to not feeling comfortable about being, I told you, elegant and like delicate. So I joined an adult jazz class and performed

in a recital, a dance recital from my karate and shooting background. So I had this like history of if there's a fear, it has to be faced. Yeah. If there's something, you got to face it head on in the most absurd way that you can. Who's idea was that? Was that your mom's idea? That's my mom. She's a baddie. Yeah, a little okay. She's super awesome. And she instilled kind of that and me. And we're we're fear buddies together.

We go and do whatever we're scared of. Her list is a lot shorter than mine though. Yeah. Well, and she's like this incredible shooter also. Oh, absolutely. And your dad. Mm-hmm. So tell, you catch us up to speed on that real quick.

Ooh, oh, so much of her. And then we'll talk about Rose. Oh, we're so close to talking about it. Okay, okay. My mom and dad. and my grandfather were all what I would consider firearms professionals. So my grandfather, my dad's mom, was one of the very first custom gunsmiths. And a lot of his innovations are what we see today, a version of them.

And he was the first civilian to win an old school type of shooting match bullsye wearing, you know, classy suits and fedores, shooting tiny groups one-handed. Really? And he was the first civilian to win a super prestigious title there. He got his claim to fame by building guns, winning matches, selling that gun to the second place guy. Because obviously that's why he won. Yeah, the gun. Yeah, it was the gun, of course.

And then he got his start and his name doing that. My mom has just a bucket load of national titles. She also is the only, I think, person, but for sure the only woman to have a gold medal at our rifle. pistol and shotgun world level competitions. And my dad has 21 consecutive revolver world records and a whole bunch of speed world records that he just has set and some other titles and shooting. So what's the key to all that success if you had to sum it up? I mean, because that's incredible.

The key to all that success, just do. doing it. Dedication to the craft. Just doing. Yeah. Like my mom's, my mom will always be like, just jump. Like when you're on the edge and you don't know what to do, go harder. Jump.

My dad is the person that he will tell you like he's the best because he's the first one on the range and the last one to leave. More rounds through the gun. You're not going to outwork him. And you're my grandfather being unafraid to do new things and to fully. commit once again to the crafted hand. So yeah. I mean, if you just dedicate everything that you do to something, you'll get good at it. You should. I mean, that's the thing is people want shortcuts and there are no shortcuts. Not a one, not a single one. Keep hammering. Yep, absolutely.

But so that's my family. Yeah, so then, so Rose, your pride and joy. Yep. So I decided. How exciting is that? So I thought I was going to get fired. From SIG? Yeah. Why? And instead, I got a whole brand. Well, I mean, my job is to win them shiny titles.

Right. You know, like in this evolution, I'm finding out can skill carry for myself. I'm solo traveling. I'm competing nonstop. And then I just have like this moment. And I'm like, I'm going to use my skills and experience to be able to help other people take on this responsibility and learn to incorporate firearms into their life and be competent and confident users. Like that competent and confident you've probably heard me say it 25 times

because it's what makes people good at some of that. Yeah, but that is so different. Like even if you talk about your mom and dad and your family's legacy and then your titles, you're supposed to win, shiny things. So that's all very personal achievements. And then all of a sudden your mindset now seems like it's more of a, you know, a service. It's helping people. So did you always have that mindset or did you just have a, was there something that just clicked and you're like, I want to, I want to switch gears. I mean, you still are competitive. You still want to be the best you can be. But also now I can see since the energy and the excitement in helping others. Absolutely. Well, it's like I got so much support and help to be where I am.

I never acted like I just sat out on my own and made it this far. I've been blessed to have support to do all of these things, to face fears, to dedicate myself to a craft, to take on the responsibility of my own personal protection. These are all like, they've all been helped. And then when I look around the world, I see people filled with fear and they don't have any help. Right. And within my industry, I was like, damn.

Like, if I don't figure this out who is. And there wasn't anybody else, so I figured I would. You said you thought saved was going to fire you. So tell me how about that. Well, I mean, I had my light bulb moment and I was like, okay, I'm going to teach everybody that I can possibly get in a room to listen to me about guns, which means that, you know, that 200 days a year competing and the rest of that time training. It had, like, you had to come from somewhere. This time to teach had to come from somewhere. So usually when you go and tell your boss, hey, the job that you pay me to do, I'm not going to do it anymore.

I'm going to do this other thing. Usually, you know, they're like, goodbye. Good luck. Yeah. And it's small thinking on my part for thinking that this is my dream, this is my passion, my mission, who else would want to be honest with me? Right. And when I went to SIG and I had my boo-hoo moment with them and I was like, I gotta go teach everybody I can.

Very luckily, I told that to a good friend at SIG. And a week later, he called me up and he said, your dream, we're doing it. No way. And I said, we. What do you mean we are doing it? And that's when my little mission to educate everyone truly became something that the firearms industry hasn't seen. Because we've had female educators before. We've had classes. We've had that. You know, we have guns. We have all this. But what we haven't had is a bar setter in the firearms

industry like Sig Sauer saying, we are no longer just providing a product, but we're providing the user with everything that they need to be that competent and confident owner. It's not only just a gun, but it's gun. It's safe storage. It's education. It's community. Because it's our responsibility to build them up. Right.

And no one else in the industry has done that. We have these little segments. You know, we have these people that instruct, these people that make products, these people that will be in the community. And they're not related. And they're not related. And they're not cohesive.

Mostly manufacturers. They want that sale. Oh, absolutely. And once they've got the sale, they're done with it. Yep. They're like, okay. Now go learn from somebody else how to do it. Yeah, go go figure it out.

And it's like, oh, where do you go? And then you go on the internet. And then it's got so much information that it's like, who do I listen to? What's a good source? What do I do here? And then also this new demographic that came into firearms, they were on the fence because most likely that people in their life are not about it. So I had to, or my goal was to provide. a completely self-sustaining line.

You don't need someone behind the gun counter to talk to you. You don't have to have someone that knows about guns to teach you. Just get this kit. Go online. Let's start this video series together. Let's learn everything that we need in the comfort of your own home. That's great. Because I do think that like for women to go into a gun store, that's intimidating.

you know and you know how most i'm not saying just just gun shops i'm saying men in particular you know it's just like it's tough for a woman to go that because guns you know no offense to you and your mom but it's been like a man's world sort of right i'm very aware yeah so it's like for a woman to go and you know i've been in gun shops i've seen any women in there you know what i mean it's rare right so it's like i could see where that would be like a huge stumbling block or obviously obstacle to overcome. So to have you being that face of it and knowing knowing how to communicate. And then like, you know, what I saw today with your rose line and the guns is like all that you mentioned, the security part of it, everything you need to know is in that package.

Yep. Yep. And then if it's not in that package and you decide your, your firearms journey is going somewhere else, we're always trying to supply the aftermarket accessories. products, whatever you need to pursue your firearms journey and whatever facet that it is. So it's been growing. We launched it only January of last year. So when we first launched it, all the feels, all the emotions. Like my mom and dad and sister were there and we just like couldn't like, oh, every time I looked at it and they had tears in their eyes and I was like, stop it.

I talk on stage. Were they pretty proud? Oh, so they're awesome. Super amazing. Were they more proud of that or like your world titles? I would say this because this is, and this is unique. Yeah. To me, world titles are not unique to my family.

Right, right. I guess it's just kind of what we got to do. Must be nice. Yeah, so nice. I just wake up like this every day. It can blast real good. But I would say, yeah, I would say that this, and because it's taking,

taking something that I use to build me up and then choosing to try and build up others with it. And all of my knowledge and experience goes hand in hand with all that they did for me. So I hope that when they see me doing this, they can see how their support and help to me is passed on. Right.

You know, like that's, I don't think there's any greater honor than being able to support others with your knowledge and expertise. It's one of the coolest things, being able to connect those dots for someone to help them overcome a challenge. It just so happens to be that firearms usually are also tied with a lot of emotional side to it. You know, they're intimidating. A lot of people that I teach have had past traumas with firearms or some type of something that spurred them into wanting a firearm.

So it's like regaining a lot for people. Oh, man, if we want to talk about emotional stories, which we don't because I'll probably cry. But so many amazing women have come and like started this journey of like recapturing their confidence and their freedom. And it's been awesome or getting it for the first time. And so you cry because it's so transformative to them. Oh, it's just, it's amazing that these people come to me. That like me teaching someone to shoot guns can build up somebody. Because you're so, you're so approachable and you're so, like, enthusiastic.

And it's like so nice. I mean, of course they're going to come to you. I'm not going to go to the guy at the gun counter. But it's such an honor to be. Yeah. I mean, the most valuable thing anyone has is their time. So any, the fact that so many people choose to listen to what I say and give me their time. And like some ladies, their hearts to be able to guide them through this is just remarkable.

I'm so proud of so many people. I had just got back from a retreat, a Rose retreat at Boca Raton in Florida. And there had ladies overcoming past traumas, had people facing excommunication from their family for choosing to try and take firearms into their life. So they're facing all that and choosing me as a guide through it. Yeah, that's powerful. It's pretty big honor. Yeah.

Yeah, so I'll always be enthusiastic for that. They deserve it. Yeah, I think that, you know, you grew up in a small town, right? Yeah. Also, a small town and then kind of like on a private island. Right. Your own gun range. My own gun range compound, which was just 150 acres of family.

and guns and gun shop. So that's very unique because the people who have these preconceived notions about firearm owners or gun owners, they're usually from the city. And then they see like, you know, the negative part of gun owners, you know, the shootings or the whatever. It's always what hits the news is negative. And so, yeah, it's for people who didn't grow up, like we grew up in rural small town America, firearms are super taboo.

Taboo, definitely. So I get that, but it's like having you as this person, and I don't want to, I'm not, I don't want to talk shit about all gun shop owners because like gun pro over here in Springfield, great, great shop. If everybody had a gun shop like that, they'd be, you know, miles ahead of everybody. And then at the range today, at the Isaac Walton Range out here in Eugene. So, you know, that was women out there running that thing. And that was so awesome.

So it's like there are some good spots. But again, we are, this is Oregon. This isn't L.A. or it's not New York. You know, so we're kind of lucky to live in more of a, in just a better setting for, I guess, for firearm owners to find support. But yeah, I get that. I just love that, you know, you have such a passion for helping women. And yeah, I can imagine if a woman who has.

had trauma before and doesn't have confidence and doesn't, maybe they don't have a husband or something. So it's like, you know, living by yourself as a woman could be scary. And also like pushing off that responsibility of your own personal protection to someone else and your family is once again asking them to lay their life on the line for you. And I understand as the role of a protector, you know, in the family, it's like, yeah, it's my job. But also it's kind of like, why can't you do that? yourself. Are you mentally not capable? Are you physically incapable of doing it? There are some people

that are and that is why they don't need to, you know, but I'd say the vast majority of people have all that it takes to take on that responsibility. And even if you are the protector of your family as the man, it's you're not always there. No. You know, so I mean, I have stuff to do. So yeah, of course if I'm here, my family doesn't have to worry about anything, but I'm not always here. Yeah. So then what? Because they say that, you know, the police they do as good as they can, but they're responding to something that already happened.

They're not preventing anything from happening. They're the cleanup crew. So it's like that's why I felt so good for you to be working with Trace today to give her confidence because we have guns here, but many have to be confident in them and know what to do, how to use them if you need to. And you've got to have the techniques to get you there because as you can see like. It's stressful too. In a very stressful situation.

The most. Yeah, the most. And that's what if you're not, don't have those reps, you can't perform at a high level in a stressful situation. No. So, yeah, you're helping people get those reps and feel comfortable. So then if it ever, God forbid it ever does happen, they're capable. Yep.

And we always, it's always last resort. I think it's really silly. A lot of people say a lot of silly things to me. But they'll be like, well, man, I don't want to get a gun because I got a real temper. And I'm like, do you also? So I got to have knives in your house or like a baseball bat or a club or anything. Because wow, you sound pretty. Maybe I don't want you.

That's pretty wild. But it's like a firearm is actually one of the biggest de-escalators for people that I've met. Because once you've taken on that responsibility and you've had some training and some education, you realize how powerful you are and how it's your responsibility to avoid. Get out. I do not interact. You know? Whereas I've seen people that are not.

not carrying. They're kind of like more willing to kind of get into stupid situations. No offense to guys, but like I'll kind of go into this fight. Maybe I'll pull people apart. This is kind of sketchy. Maybe I'll go. And it's like, no, I'm the ultimate escalator here if I'm the firearm user. So my job is to like to stay back, to watch out, to be aware, to not ever have to use it. It's not too much different than the guys who get in fights aren't like the train fighters, like the MMA guys or the jiu jitsu guys or even like with your training it's not the guys who because they they respect fighting it's like it's an art you know so they're not the ones just getting in some bar room brawl they're the guys who kind of keep the peace it's no different than that with the firearms yeah and yeah it just takes a little bit a little bit training a little bit education but how's uh how's the rose line doing since you started oh it's been accepted phenomenally. Blew me away.

Blew me away. We've launched, January of last year. We have over 16,000 women in our little online private community for women on their firearms journey. We have had every single event that we've done sold out in moments.

So our biggest thing is just figuring out how we can best. to provide more because the demographic definitely is just as hungry as I knew it was. It was just as in need of someone to take them into consideration as I knew. And now our industry is. And I hope that every other gun manufacturer tries to copy us. A lot of people are like, oh, man, do you think this company is going to do it? And I'm like, I sure hope so.

Yeah. I sure hope that every company gets just super jazzed about making, their customer better and not just selling them again. Yeah, I know. That's, yeah, it's a big part of it. And what do you see, so you see more opportunities for women to learn? Where do you see the rose line going, just continue to expand? I hope to be able to continue to expand our education reach and our in-person events.

Our online education also has the opportunity to expand and our product line. And not only SIG's product line, but then also additional supporting products, because it takes a lot. You know, like you get the gun and then it's like, okay, wow, there's a lot of other things I need. Like, what if I want to optic? I need mag pouches. I need safe storage. I need tools. I need gear to maintain them.

So making there be an easy button for people that it's like, ah, I don't know. Give me the package. Right. Like when I got into mountain biking for the first time, I went in there and I was like, where all the kits at? You know, I'll take this mountain biking kit and I'll take this because it's the easy answer. Right. So I hope to be able to provide whatever facet, whatever product, whatever education, whatever support to them. And we're doing a good job. Yeah.

We're doing a good job. More events that are rolling out this year. Super excited. Ooh, when does this podcast come out? like in a few days. Pretty quick. Just talk about it anyways. We'll just talk about it anyways.

I finally got approval to be able to start to train assistant instructors. So as of now, I've been the only one able to teach. Lena can only do so much. So now I am able to take on assistant instructors. And we're launching our first live fire education, like events for people. and they'll partner with shoot sig, which is a very introductory competition. It just brings you out to the range. You get to shoot a few stages, super fun.

And now Rose gets to partner with that to offer live fire classes and to guide groups of women through the shoot sig event. So we'll have three of those this year. And I just got approval for that. Literally leaving here to go train up my assistant instructors. And- Where are the events? Where are the other? I think that our first event will be in Ohio, and then we will go to, ooh, the middle one's not set, and then I know one is in Nevada.

Okay. So we'll officially announce those probably weeks after this podcast comes out, and they'll be super excited that I talked about it, but I'm too excited. But it'll be awesome. So that'll be on the SIG website? Yep, that'll be on the SIG website. It'll be on the Rose social media pages, and it'll be in the Rose Online. community. So it'll be, it would blast it and all over what I'm, what I'm doing. Oh, of course. I'll be chanting about it. You have a good online presence for sure.

I mean, it's, yeah, it's, I was curious, where did the name Rose come from? Is it just, because it's feminine or what? No, it came from my middle name. So my middle name is Rosalie. And it's one that's been passed down for quite a few generations through my family. So when this was just my mission alone, it was called Rosalie. concealed carry because that was my mission and then I showed up with SIG and we shortened it to Rose by SIGS sour. Yeah. And it worked out really great because we came up, we had a color, we have an emoji, you know? It's all right. It all worked out. But it's based off my name because for me, I feel that my last name really represents my family's legacy and all that like we've

done together. My first name is kind of like all my individual achievements and now like my middle name my my my my heritage there is to go out that's a big deal i mean i remember you know coming up and in archery it's different but it's similar in some ways because you just have to grind so so long and at first you just want you know you want like for me a bow manufacturer to like okay yeah you want to be on our pro staff and that's a big deal you know and then it's like oh i get a bow And then it's like after years, then, oh, your name's on a bow. This is like the Cameron Haynes bow. And so I totally get that your journey has been started, you know, shooting when you were eight,

competing at 15, now 29. And now you have this, you've worked so hard and had so much success and been such an influential figure that now you have your own line of firearms. That's incredible. And my own mission. And like, I don't know, I feel like it makes me more proud that it was based off of like a personal goal. You know, it wasn't like, man, I hope to get my name on a gun. Because I actually had that opportunity in the competition world, like have a competition pistol or a competition rifle or shotgun.

But this one means something. Yeah. At least to me. The other ones mean stuff too, and it's awesome. But like, I don't know, this one represents more to me because the other ones just kind of represent. me and my competition. This is more of a mission. At least it definitely started off as a mission

and now it just happens to be a product line along with it. It's more like, you know, empowering as far as being influential to a community in need, basically, and helping women feel more safe and protected. Yeah. And self-sufficient.

And just like if you just... That is deep. Yeah, or just to be kick ass with a gun. Yeah. That's cool too. It's cool. Whatever your firearms journey may be, if the idea of protecting yourself with one seems absurd, well, there's like a few million of them in the U.S.

So maybe we just learn how to be safe with them. And that's a confidence that we can take with us everywhere we go. And it's fun to go shoot. It's so fun to go shoot. Oh my gosh. It's so fun. Yeah. We weren't saving the world today.

We were out having fun. Yeah. We're just trying to, I mean, all my shots are just trying to poke holes in paper. and hit steel targets. Yeah. It was a blast. Yeah, I think so. I think so.

And everybody, you know, we saw a number of people out there too, doing the same thing in the sun here in Oregon, and out just shooting. Just shooting. It's like such a wholesome, you know, people like try to demonize it a little bit. It's so wholesome. Out shooting with your family, hanging out,

doing it safely, learning, you know, learning an important skill, but also it's just, you know, learning how to respect for her arm. That's a big deal. It is. And not be afraid of them. Yeah.

Cool thing about the range, too, is that it's shared by, like, all ages. And the sports are the same. There are a few sports that I feel that truly, like, all ages are at. I just got back from a world shoot in Thailand last year. And competing at the world match was 12 years old to 78 years old. Whoa. That's awesome. And they brought them both up on stage, and it's just like.

Like how cool. Yeah. How cool that these people from across the globe, from spanning such an age range and background and experience, came together for this. And here they are. So like I started when I was eight, you know, and then just everybody can do it.

My dad's 70 now and he's just texting me about coming back from competitions and signing up to do other ones. So it's just everybody has a spot there. And there's so many different sports you can find one that really appeals to you. I know, I mean, I heard that, you know, at the gun pro here in town, the owner there talked about your dad. Have you, so I mean, I know your family's been big. Have you been inspired by people outside of your family in firearms?

Or is it just all been your families less pushed you? I mean, what type of relationships have you built? Oh, I mean, I just wanted to beat everybody. Yeah. Whether I was related to them or not. So you're very, are you, you're competitive, I take it. Oh, we have to be. I'm actually the nicest competitive one in my family.

Everyone else is a little nastier about it. Well, you said your mom was pretty classy. Oh, she is classy, but she's also like the one that used to write for, this is one of my favorite. This will just give you like a little, a little tidbit into her mind. But she used to write for a gun magazine And she wrote an article about how she would always imagine That she was a wolf in the shadows Chasing down her prey ready to rip their throats out

I love that I love that Yep and that's my mom And then she's also the first person As soon as you beat her like I also told you at Her tradition was at a Nationals If someone beat her They immediately at the awards

Got a bouquet of flowers and a congratulner From her. Yeah, from her. So it's like, I'm going to absolutely try and destroy you. But if you can beat me, kudos to you. Here, all the congratulations. Because she knows what it took to beat her. Yeah, because she made you earn it.

Yeah. So. I love that. I mean, to me, that's true competition. That's how you should act. Oh, but it's so hard. It is hard. I don't know.

They beat me and you just. I'm like to slash their tires, right? Yeah, I don't think. I probably can't act like that. But we won't do that. But your mom will be the goal for us, your mom's attitude. She's very good. And I mean, she's the person that would invite her biggest competitions to come and train with her.

Really? Yeah, like alongside her. Like if you were that good, she wanted to see what she were doing. What she? I mean, what do you think? Do you think it was all positive or was she looking for chinks and? I don't. I mean, we are, we all have our strengths and our weaknesses and there's not going to be any competitor that it has none.

Right. So, but then you're also showing yours. But it's just that like openness. Like this is who I am. Let's see who's going to be better right now. I don't have that. I've, I've trained a few times with people that I also compete with, but it's real hard. And then my father's like the total opposite mindset of like, no, never.

You're never going to see me. Never would you ever see me training with someone that I'm trying to beat on the range. Yeah. Like, he's that. I know. I can see both sides, though. Oh, and both sides led to amazing careers. Right.

So once again, there's no right answer here. It's just the right answer for the individual person. Yeah. I feel like I split like a middle ground, you know, where like I can be friends with the people that I'm competing against. can train with them. It's not my favorite thing maybe in the whole wide world. If I thought I was better, I would love to train with people. Be like, watch me beat you. I just want you to know that you're not even close to me.

So yeah, let's train. Oh, yeah. Come on. No, let's count. But pretend like you're all supportive. That's what I would do. Brutal. Yeah.

Just brutal. For you, you're doing good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good. If I was you, I'd be proud of that. Yeah. Not me.

Yeah. I would be suicidal if that was me. Now, I could see playing mind games for sure, but it doesn't sound like your mom's really doing that. No, she's just being an honest competitor. Yeah. Just there. Just doing her thing. Yeah, that's impressive.

I agree. I agree. So two totally different mindsets, two different shooting styles, two different competing styles. And I got both of them. Yeah. I got to watch both of them. So they were definitely my biggest educators. but our, my education in the firearms was more like,

we're going to be out here working our ass off. If you want to join us, you can find your spot on the line. You know, and you can ask questions. Yeah. Were you always good? I mean, when you first started shooting, I was lucky to, I mean, I don't remember much from when I very first started.

When I started competing at eight, it was with a 22 rifle and pistol. And I mean, yeah, it's probably good for an eight-year-old. old. There weren't any other ones to compare me against at the time. They did start a sub-junior category after I started competing for people sub-13 years old. So that was cool. I could put together a little girls team. So you couldn't start at that, didn't you? Yeah, I just found a photo of me literally playing paddy cake on the range in our little Smith and Weston like shirts before we go to shoot. So that's what we did. You know, like play some patty cake, go shoot some guns. Yeah. That's what's my

That's good. And then when did you, like, when did your parents start seeing that you had real talent? Well, from about 8 to 15, I didn't have any real interest in firearms being more than just kind of like a thing that we did that my family did. I had not found my passion for it. I hadn't found a sport that I was willing to sacrifice all that I knew it would take to do something in it. And also just like going to the range and sucking isn't fun. No. Especially when you kind of have these preconceived notions

and most people have a preset expectation for you just because of the family that I came from. So that wasn't really what I wanted. That's pressure, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But then when I was 14, I got my first real job. I was going to graduate the next year, get my GED. And my mom was like going to go to college.

What are you going to do? I really want you to go college. Really wants you to go to college. And I worked my first real job in retail. Worked at a clothing boutique. Learned that I'm real bad at lying to people about how bad they look in dresses. Right. So not the profession for you.

Not the profession for me. But I also learned that I would never sweep the floors of another person's dream, which is what I was doing there. I was using my time, my life, to achieve someone else. Also's dream of having this boutique. So I didn't know what I was going to do, but I knew it wasn't going to be for somebody else. Right. Got my GED.

Mom invited me to my very first multi-gun match, rifle, pistol, and shotgun all together. She invited you? Yeah. What do you mean? It had to be like official? No, but like I wouldn't have gone without her being like, hey, I'm inviting you. We're going to go through setting up all of this gear together. You're going to get me set up because it's a, I listed off a little bit of the gear earlier.

and it's like, oh my gosh, an overwhelming amount. Right. So she had to provide that for me. So I got my invite and I went. And she probably wanted you to know this was serious. This is like this was a thing. Yeah, like. Not just like, hey, you should come shoot if you want to.

Although that was always open. Yeah, right. But this seemed like another like more serious step. It was. And it was taking away from what she was doing because then she needed to train me. I needed to set up gear. It was a multi-month process.

So it also takes commitment to do that. So the invite is like, are you going to actually step up and do this? Or like, is this a waste of our time? Right. And I agreed to do it. And I started dry firing my little butt off every night in my room, loading my shotgun, doing all sorts of stuff. Then I showed up to my first multi-gun match.

And it was absolutely atrocious. Oh, my gosh. That first, oh, my gosh. That first stage, I will never forget it. What happened? You started shooting rifle up a mountain. There were seven targets. I hit three and I could not hit the other ones.

What was the distance? Those were probably like 300, 400, maybe. But all reasonable. An AR, a 223 rifle with a one to six optic on it. Gotcha. So you're just laying there and it was prone. So I got elbows and mag there. Totally doable shot.

Not doable for me at the time. I shoot and shooting, shoot and shoot. And eventually I'm like, oh, my God, I have to, I have to other things I have to go and do. I'm going to run out of time because there is a timeout. It's not a fast timeout, but if you really suck like what I was doing, you could totally do that. So I'm like, I got to go. So I just put my rifle on safe and like run away. I remember you ran down this hill and I picked up my pistol and I was shooting.

And I was like, why do I even have this? Like, I can't hit shit. Just shooting and shooting. went to war with this one steel target and I went to war with it for so long shot at it for so long I had to reload wasn't even the plant oh god

get back up finally get it and then there's still shotgun oh gosh and I ran over to my shotgun and I picked it up and they had these slug targets and I didn't hit them and I ran away dropping shells on the ground couldn't get them in my gun and I get to the end of it

and I was like wow this is it so it was a disaster basically that first one dumpster fire. Oh, the whole match. Oh, that was the one course of fire of like 12, nine or 12. They were all right about right about with it. It's a rough start. But it was also absolutely addicting. Yeah. Like you get there and it was this overwhelming process of like, just wow. Yeah. How in the world can I do this? And that's what hooked me. Yeah.

I literally shot that first match. March, it was on my birthday, so right around March 22nd. And that year, my family went from competing about eight to 12 matches a year to 20 plus. Whoa. We literally, we were the little traveling band of a family. Was that because now you were doing it too? And so you got your GED. So you didn't have to worry about school anymore.

Now you could just compete. Just compete. Yeah. And I sucked really bad for like a year and a half. And yet again, my mom came in and thank goodness for my mom. I would have been up Creek without her. She knew what I was doing. I got these matches just sucking.

Finally, I was getting skill and like at home in training. I was starting to catch her. She knew it. And then we'd come to a match and it was like big spread in the gap, in the overall. She could just rise up. And I would fall down. The pressure would get gone. And I remember this stage two.

Went up there had a bunch of flying clays, 14 of them. And I only got seven of the 14 targets that were available. Big bad. When sat in the car, it was in the front seat, just, sad me. And mom comes and sits in the back seat. She goes, would you like me to tell you what you're doing? I was like, yeah, please.

Dear Lord, someone tell me what I'm doing. But sometimes kids, they don't want to hear from their parents like that. You know what I mean? Oh, gosh, I wish you would have told me this earlier because your words of wisdom were just like logical. Yeah. And it was all about the fact that I was setting goals. And I know it sounds weird, but like in shooting,

you create your score in the moment because it's time and accuracy. And it's a course of fire that you have never done before. So if you show up with like an expectation or you're like, oh man, I'm trying to do this or I'm trying to meet this, you don't know. There's no real bar. You have to set it. So I was showing up with expectations. I also was taking into consideration what everyone around me was doing in their stage plans. And I was taking in the cadences of how fast they were shooting. And all the things that other people do are completely. completely irrelevant to you on the range. Right. And you said that today, even. You said that because when somebody's shooting right beside you, it's hard not to... You start shooting in cadence.

Automat, you'll start drawing at the same time. You'll start shooting the same speeds. You'll start trying to do all the same thing. Whether or not it's your ability, whether that's too fast for you or too slow for you. We just naturally want to fall into this cadence. It's like when you're in the grocery store and you're bobbing to a beat and you're not actually listening to the song. Like, we love to catch on to beats.

Right. So I was doing all that. So she told me this. We had a long talk. The next stage, which was the last stage in the competition, I had a top 10 overall placement. Whoa. I literally went from a 54% shooter. So like here's first place.

Here I am just above middle. The pack. Last course of fire. Top 10. And what would you change? I went completely to process. Okay. I'm talking every site picture, every trick.

pull totally in the moment because you show up and you have these very elaborate target arrays and movements and all these other things and I would look at it in this big chunk and the thing is the only way you can get to that ending is through the process and it was just taking it down to like no matter how long it takes no matter how slow it feels no matter nothing it's got to be this site picture it's got to be this trigger pull it's got to be this site picture it's got to be this trigger pull and it's amazing you focus on the steps you get the outcome that you want right but when you focus on the outcome you want you'll misstep on your way there yeah so it's something very you don't like this is so basic but when you shoot it an animal

when you're bow hunting you can't just shoot at the whole animal you have to pick a hair you know and so and then you have to do all the things you practice with anchor points and the level and everything like I've mentioned before, but it's that aiming, people forget to aim. They just shoot. Target down there. Because like they know that to hold the antlers of that animal, they got to shoot an arrow. So they want to shoot the arrow as fast as possible, right? And just get it out of the bow.

And then they're going to be like, I'm going to be that much closer to holdings. No, you're not going to be close to shit if you don't aim. Yeah, if you don't go through every step of the problem. You can't leave out. a link in the chain and it still all be connected. Yeah, that makes sense, you know. But yeah, so then from there you... Oh, it went super great.

Oh, man. Thank goodness, too. She decided to tell me when she did because either the next competition or a couple competitions later was my very first opportunity to compete on the world stage at the very first ever IPSE shotgun world shoot in Hungary. How old? 17, I think. So we went there and I won my first world title.

Whoa. I remember the first stage there too. I about couldn't breathe. I remember for some reason they had like fake plastic geese on the stage and a little white picket fence. And I remember I was just like, okay, I'm ready to go, shoot my gun. What was the first? What did you have to shoot?

It was just a bunch of steel targets and clayes in the action shooting sports that I played. our targets sometime are moving, but the majority of the time, they're stationary and we're moving. Okay. So this is a big course of fire that you navigate through your speed load and you're working off of this big belt of shells. And I managed my first world title, which really began my career. Because up until that point, you know, you're big nobody. So that's when I was able to first get my first real sponsor and have some glimmer of hope

of this being a career. And then I went on, luckily, a few months after that, to the most public competition that we've ever had, which was called Three Gun Nation. It was a TV show. They would have a series of competitions that you compete at and try and qualify for this cash shoot-off.

And I qualified, and I went, and there was this lady named, I was fourth seat. It was Katie Harris. my mom, Diana Mueller, and myself. And I just, ooh, barely eeked on in there. Yeah. And- So top four made it only? Yeah.

Okay. Yep. Top four ladies for the money. It was at night. They had stadium lights. It was at shot show. Oh, wow. So they had audience.

Yeah. And I remember doing my little interview before. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm just going to shoot my gun. And I stepped outside the door and I saw that. Yeah. And my legs got so heavy. I couldn't move, I couldn't breathe.

And it was the most like jarring moment, probably that I've ever had in my career. And you know what I did? I went and sat all these people so excited, big shoot out, all these, like hundreds of people I know. I went and sat this far away from the berm, the pile of dirt with a chair. Yeah. I like this. Just stared at the berm. And visualized every shot that I was going to take for hours, just.

just trying to grasp some bit of control again. Because physically I was like, just a mess. Just a mess. And I sat over there and it's just like, sight picture trickle, sight picture trickle, visualizing every single one, rifle, pistol, shotgun,

all of them over and over and over again. And it paid off. I was able to, me and my mom were the first ones. So I had to dethrone my mom first. So like, so you were against your mom? Was there a semi-final?

So it was first and fourth, second. Oh, yeah. No, no, I wasn't first and fourth. It was second and fourth first and whatever that is. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. So you were against your mom at first? I was against my mom first.

I had to beat her to make it to whoever won the other bout. Right. So thank goodness I got her. It took all three rounds. Really? Yeah, it wasn't clean. It was like either she won. I think I won and then she won.

then I won and I was like, oh my gosh, I did it. So I moved on and then I got to take on Katie Harris. And she was the shit. Really? Like she was the lady to beat in multi-gun that year. She was whopping on everybody. Probably nobody gave you a chance, did they? I mean, they shouldn't have.

I hadn't done anything for anyone to properly believe in me yet. And I won two strings. And I got her. And I won my big check, my $5,000, which, which was like the most money I'd ever seen in my whole life at that age. And then I was able to win that shootoff every year that they held it. Really? Yeah, and the money got better.

Thank goodness. It went from $5,000 to $25,000, $25,000 to $25,000. That's good money. And I took them all home. Wow. So are you the best at that? I mean... And multi-gun, I would say that my national title.

say so. Yeah. Not than me. That whole like, are you the best? Yeah. It's very arbitrary. But I have the titles. Some titles that say that I am the best at this specific thing. Yeah. Because I never want to take credit from other people that have amazing achievements within the firearms world because it's a very broad statement. It's like if I said, are you the best runner in the world? It's like, no. At what? You know, like a sprint to 5K, a 10k. There is no at what. It's just no. But Yeah, I'm not even the best bow hunter in the world. So it's like, yeah, I'm not the best of anything. But, you know, you're, I don't, there are no world titles in bow hunting.

But you do have beautiful trophies from it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, these guys. And yours are edible. These guys might say that I won that day that we were in the, on the mountain together. But you didn't lose that day. I didn't lose. Yeah. Didn't lose.

But, yeah, man, what a, what a journey. It sounds. I don't know. It sounds awesome. It was. It was a hoopla. I mean, for like two years of that, imagine three grown people with nine guns apiece traveling in a 21-foot motor home across the country shooting tens of thousands of rounds together.

Like we were like a little family traveling band of guns. It was so fun. Oh, yeah. Right? Well, we have to. So we have specific rules to get along. What is it? So in competition, we have our 30-minute rule.

At the end of the mat, it doesn't matter. Good, bad, ugly. If you won, you can rub it in our faces for 30 minutes. And if you lost, you can pout about it for 30 minutes. And after your 30 minutes is up, it is up. It's on to the next. On to the next thing. So we had to sit that rule.

Yeah. Because you get tired of hearing people gloat. You also get tired of hearing people gloat. So you get your 30 minutes to be whatever you are. And then on to the next thing. What's harder to not want to do? Because it seems like... Complaining.

Complaining is like, I don't know. It'd be easy if I won not to say anything. But if you feel like you've failed and that's hard. That sticks with you. Yeah. Well, also at the level that we're at, the winning isn't that sweet because it's what we expect. Right. It's the only actual outcome that is acceptable.

It's why we're there. So every time I win, it's like, yeah, that's what I was supposed to do. Right. Whereas when you lose. Yeah. That makes sense. And yeah, you can't bring that negativity back into the family, back into the car. because...

No. It seemed to affect everyone else. Yeah. And luckily, it was just like one and another string of many, you know? And just like with shooting today, I was telling Tracy, um, misses only when, you know, like the missing the target. We know that's going to happen. Misses only matter. They only win when they distract us from our next shot. Right. That's good advice.

Because so often when someone misses once, they'll start missing more because, you know, they're like, oh man, I missed. Oh, no, and they're thinking about that miss, but they keep shooting and they miss again, and then they miss again, and then they're all just all in their head. And it's like, misses are going to happen, failures are going to happen. The only way it can matter is if it affects what you're doing next. Right.

So it's just immediately move on. Yeah, that's good advice. That's good advice for life. It is. And randomly, it's the only way that you can compete well. Because in your big courses of fire, you know, you're trying to execute so many techniques so quickly, so fast, that like if your brain comes in to criticize you in that moment instead of supplying an answer

what a waste right gone loser bam out of here so that makes sense yeah I think a lot of people could learn learn from that I know I could it's not easy I had my long time of battling with with that but you have to have the like you have to give yourself the confidence to miss and the ability to miss because it's going to happen. We can't be afraid of it. But we just got to be ready to take action as soon as it's done. Fixed problem. Yeah.

Well, you know what else I was impressed with with you? You ran good. I mean, that run wasn't easy. And I was like not feeling it. I was, you know, 31 days ago is when this was confirmed to come on your podcast. And for 31 days, I have been anxious as can be about it. Oh my gosh like coming and running with you. And I also wanted this to be as organic as possible.

So I didn't research you. I didn't watch Run Shoot Lift. I didn't listen to your podcast because I just wanted to meet you and see who you were like. Oh, Sorry, Lyft Run Shoe. See, I didn't. Good job. See, I told you.

I didn't. Yeah. So with all that, I came in super nervous. But one thing, like I said, you're. your supportiveness to everyone else out there. It makes me feel great about going, we didn't get in your minimum of two miles a day, but we did get in seven.

Oh, God. No, you did, you did great. We did 7.4. He keeps saying 7, but we have to add the point four because it matters to me. It was legit. It was, I mean, but four miles of that is uphill, pretty much, you know. And you kicked ass and you lifted hard in here. It was good and shot the bow.

amazing. Wayne loved teaching you. I know. I'm so excited to go shoot bow more. Every time I shoot a bow, I'm like, man. This is so fun. And it's so opposing to kind of the specific things that make me great at what I do. It kind of opposes those really strongly. And it makes me have to find patience, which I call it patience. Because it's always painful to be patient. I'm the same way. I want it now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you cannot do that with archery. No. So, fun switch up.

So how do I get better at shooting? Oh, how do you get better at shooting? From what you saw today, what's my deficiencies? Hmm. Pulling a trigger too hard. Deficiencies, that's such a thing. I'll give you a process to get better. Okay.

So when we go to the range and we're shooting targets, whether they be steal or paper, always think of them as your written test. How can you show up confidence? with the answers to that test. You study beforehand. So that at-home dry fire, that at-home training, that no ammunition going through the motions of everything, that is where we get to perfect and build our skills.

It's not fun. It's not snazzy. Going to the range and shooting a bunch of ammo is way more fun. And if you have the resources to go and only live fire, it's really good, but you don't need a whole lot of ammo. And you're going to be making that drive to the range all the time. Right. So at home training is something that every professional does.

And it would be your next steps. I brought you back some cardboard targets. You tried to throw them away and I dug him out of the trash. No, he needs some targets to dry fire on. But going through just everything you did, working out of the holster, doing one shots, starting to transition. There's so much that's still new. I don't need you to push your skills.

I need the skills that you have to start becoming your constant. Right. You know, I need you to be able to deliver that outcome on demand. And then once you can do that, then it's like, ooh, where are my deficiencies? What can I get? But right now it's just inconsistency. So we're trying to find consistency. And that's just going to come from some hours behind your gun.

And at home is the easiest place to do that. Yeah, do you, I mean, I know you mentioned visualization. when you start at that berm. Yeah. But do you still do that? I mean, are you still visualizing, hitting the target perfect? Yeah, that's part of our process for every course of fire. Okay.

the way the sport works is that you're allowed in to see this very intricate stage of, like, a bunch of movement and memorizing all of your targets and your placements and your footing and your reloads and your gear, everything that you're going to have to do. So you get just a few minutes. to do that, but what you can continue to do is visualize it. So you get your plan, you go back, you close your eyes, and you need to watch yourself run through the course of fire, a minimum of three times through first person. So three times imagining through your sights, perfect site pictures, right on your target, every shots you want to take, every movement you want to take, what it looks like three times through third person, like you're watching a video of yourself run through. And that's the minimum. The goal is that when that buzzer goes off, your brain goes away.

And your body, your training, your muscle memory has the opportunity to take over because that's always going to be the fastest. They can only run really fast and perform all the things that you train if you have that plan absolutely solidified in your mind. So even with our simple drill today of like two, two and two. Yeah. If you visualize it before, I guarantee you it'll go better. So I've never heard that first person, third person.

Where'd that come from? That came from my teammate Daniel Horner. On Sig Sauer, he was the captain of the Army marksmanship unit. And at one point in time, he had all of his men national champions in the U.S. So he's got it figured out, locked away, and he taught a class to me on mental, management on the mental approach to everything, how to set goals, how to approach them, how to achieve them, all of that. And I knew I needed to visualize and I had always visualized in first person, but I had never thought of visualizing in third person. And it did bring a great

bit more detail to it. Because it also makes you visualize your motions more. Because in shooting, if you're visualizing through first person you're seeing your sights. Right. But how much today did we talk about stance, elbows, knees, hips, all of these other things. Yep, third person view. It allows you to get that detail. Also, once we bring in movement into our shooting and foot placements and really specific, like, actions, third person. That's also why you mentioned how to film the shot, I think, because that's a third person view and then you can critique it over and

over. But yeah, you know, I visualized hunting a lot like that perfect arrow and the perfect arrow flight trajectory and hitting exactly where you want. I've never thought or even heard of visualizing that same scenario in third person. When you think about it now, what details come to mind that you feel like might be left out through first person and are there anyone's? Yeah. We're not supposed to have any moments of silence in a podcast, are we? And I'm like, ooh, close your eyes and be introspective. So curious. What I just saw, what I just saw was I wanted to shoot the bull when it didn't know it was not looking at me.

It's, you know, my goal was always to kill the animal when it didn't know I was there or hit the animal with my arrow. It never knew I was in the area, never knew, was never alarmed and had had no idea I was in the same country. So when I just visualized that, the bull was doing his thing. I was in the shadows and made a nice controlled draw, very relaxed, very calm. And that bull wasn't looking at me. He's doing his thing. And then that near side leg came forward. And then I picked a spot on the arrow, blue clear through the bull from the top.

I could see me and the bull. Very cool. But I hadn't done that before. I like that. I like that. I like that it brought in the rest of your body. Obviously, you're to the point where so much of it is just muscle memory. And it's the only answer.

It's the only thing that you'll do. You know, I stand this way. But I feel like bringing in a third person might solidify it even a little bit more because you have to have the detail of all of you from your toes to your nose. Right. It's all there. Yeah. And you got to see it all.

Yeah, that's awesome. I like it. Well, I'm glad that's a fun thing to do. But visualization. is like, it's so good. So good. Also, creating routines to get us into that place where we can deliver a known performance is a really important thing that I don't think everyone does.

So like for me, I have my routine of two minutes, two competitors down from me, put in my little earplugs, put on my earmuffs, call it my cone of silence, and I wander away and I go into my visualizations. I should have already done it so much so that I already have it. but this is like my last few moments. So this is where I'm going over here. I'm doing this. My whole goal is once again to take away my brain.

So many people talk about muscle memory and how important it is, but what about if your muscle memory can't take over because your brain's trying to do something. Right. Your brain's sabotaging you generally. Yeah, it usually does because it's trying to think of all sorts of stupid things. So for me, my time of visualization right before I go up is trying to just get my brain to get out of the way. Because I have this ability.

And if I can get my brain out of the way, then it can actually show up and take over. But two people can't be in charge. Two people can't be guiding the ship. And having to think through the process is always going to be slower than just letting your skills take over. So that process of whatever it is, that routine of getting. end to the place where you need to be able to deliver a known performance is an important one. Someone told me that Serena Williams bounces her tennis ball seven times before every serve. I don't know if that's accurate. Someone on the internet I know we'll find out.

Fact check. But in my mind when they told me that, I was like, oh, it's because that's her routine to get to that place. She doesn't need to do it. It's not actually adding to her performance, but she's doing it because it's a moment for her mind to go away and let her muscle memory take over. At least that's what I took from it. Serena, if you're watching, please reach out, let me know. She watches this every episode. I'm sure. I'm sure. Well, she'll just DM me after this and be like, oh, yeah, for sure, Lena.

Let's get cocktails later. Yeah. No, you know, I was thinking, I remember a bowl that I missed a million years ago. It was kind of spitting snow as in the Eagle Cap Wilderness. And I was already, this bowl had had dark. Antlers is a 7 by 6. I can still see it going slightly uphill and I was coming from the bottom. And I had like a 40-some yard shot, not even that far. Should have been on the shot.

But what I was thinking about was the picture I was going to be able to put up at the bow rack. Oh, we were at our ending and we weren't going through our process. And I was thinking how sick that picture and that bull and I was going to be able to put it at the picture at the bow rack and I skipped an arrow off its back and I did not kill that bowl and that was so painful I can't even explain I don't know if I've been in worse pain in my life and this was probably this would be 25 years ago yeah still scarred up from so yeah so I you know I've skipped ahead on the process a number of times would not be in the moment if I would been in the moment, picked a spot, had that third person view of this scenario and visualized it

and visualized that perfect arrow hitting the spot that I picked, I would have had that picture at the Mowrack. Yeah. But I skipped to the picture first. Isn't it as soon as we mentally get to the outcome, we cannot also be in the process. Yeah. And our outcome will always suffer. Right.

It's so hard to be like right now. The only thing I can control is this edy-beating little thing right now. And it doesn't ever seem like it's going to lead to the outcome that you want. No. But as soon as these little things start to fumble, you can never have it. And I think part of it is getting harder nowadays because we're so distracted by a million. Everybody's on their phone all the time. So when are you ever really in the moment anymore unless you're very intentional about it?

So I think that even that focus, it's getting harder and harder with the more shit that we have going on in life. We're not getting longer attention spans by any means. We're not finding more patience in our everyday life. So I think like if you can be intentional about that perspective or that focus, you're even, I mean, anybody listening to this is going to have a huge advantage over their competition no matter what they do, you know, because you are in the moment. Yep. And when you're at a competition and there's other people looking at that shiny trophy, man, you pump them up. You'd be like, at that, that could be you could be holding that. And while they're thinking about that, you're going to be working your way towards it.

Yeah. Because they're not. They're just looking at it. Yeah. They're not doing the work in the moment to actually get it. So yeah, cheer them on. Tell them how good they look with that photo with their big trophy and how amazing it's going to be. And they can be thinking about that future them, which is totally irrelevant to now you.

I think now I have learned mostly through failure that now I'm always in the moment hunting. You know, and regular life is harder, you know. But you also have said many times on this, I mean, I might be dead tomorrow, so we'll be here. I do. And that's living in the moment. Yeah. That's in today because especially with your lifestyle

and how many opportunities you're coming up and so many things to do, it's so easy to always be in the next thing. You know, who's coming on the podcast next? How's moving careers going to go? I don't even know. And that's, and it's, there's so much coming at you that it's like, I can't think about all that shit. Oh, no.

You could, though. I could. And what would suffer? Everything. The right now. The right now. The right now. The right now, Cam would be, would be not Cam.

Yeah. So it's super hard, but like my saying is that's future lean a problem. Right. Oh, future lean a problem. Which is just me like, okay. I trust and I have confidence in myself to be able to handle the problem. of the future. As they come, yeah.

So that means that I have to leave them for future Lena. Right. So future Lena, take them on right now. I'm going to do this. Yeah. So yeah, you might die tonight and mine's just future problem, Lena. The future Lena problems. Yeah, I'm terror.

I mean, I don't book flights even like until the day or two before. So I'm like so opposite of looking ahead to the next thing nowadays. But it's only because I've screwed up so many times. You know, you count your chickens before the hatch or like I remember I wrote a book and I, this person said, oh yeah, we want to order 3,000 copies and it's my first book and I only made 5,000 copies. So 3,000 copies. I was like, oh my God, I made it.

And then they said, oh, no, no, we want three cases. Well, no, that was three cases of 18. So that's 54 books, not 3,000 copies. So anyway, I had spent that money. that money I was like emotionally invested like I made it yeah and then it's like a huge so now anyway I've screwed up by by getting ahead of myself before now it's like so far the opposite now it's just like today I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow but today we're gonna give it all we got but only through all of those failures did it give you the confidence that future you would be able to handle

whatever it was because if you were never tested you wouldn't know yeah so you faced those challenges you proved that in the moment, whatever it may be, ups or downs, that you will have it. So leave it for who it should be for future you. I love it. Well, you know, this is so fun because we've been hanging out for a while, a couple days, and we talked a lot. And then we were like, before this podcast, going, I wonder what we're going to talk about. Yeah. Also, like, tired.

I was, oh, my, I almost fell asleep going to my room yesterday. because I was just absolutely gassed. Today I challenged you guys for what probably felt like forever, the most rounds you said that you've ever shot in a day. No, this is, no, I shot more today than my whole life. Oh. That's like if you add all the rounds I shot, I beat it today. Okay, okay.

Okay, well, there we go. So there was that and all of the new information and all of the new techniques in the hottest day, I think probably of the year in the middle of the day. So we, yeah, we showed up and we were a little like, oh man, what are we? I know. And it's all fine. Oh, it's all worked out. We drank a bunch of coffee.

Now we're all jazzed up. And I learned a lot. I mean, that one thing about the first and third person perspective, that, I mean, that's invaluable. I love that. So if nothing else, I learned that. So thank you. Oh, well, you're so welcome. You also got a lot of really cool gear.

So that's like, I got a lot of cool gear. This is just like a little, what is it? A little summer Christmas for both of us. It was, yeah, I got a bunch of guns. You got a new bow. We had a lot of fun. I'm so thankful that you came all the way here to Oregon and we were able to spend a couple of days together. It's been incredible.

It has. You definitely so so soothed my anxiety about a big podcast. And so thankful that we had the time before and all the activities to get to know each other. Because I think at one point you're like, I'm just a redneck who likes to run through the woods. I'm not much for talking. And I was like, ooh, I'm kind of just a redneck that likes. to shoot guns. So it's going to be a short podcast. Yeah, we had some time to warm up. Yeah, no, that's so that we could talk. As I say, that's the only reason why I'm not good at this,

but if I have a connection with people because we've shared suffered or we've, you know, experienced things together and like have this camaraderie or whatever it is, then I can get through. And today, I mean, you guys, that's your great personality and you're great on podcast. So thank you. It's this has been so much fun. It has been. I'm excited for your updates. I expect some videos coming through. Yeah. Good, bad or ugly? If they're ugly, and that's all you get for the day, then just tell me why it was. You know that I'll be there and cheer you on for it because it's not about necessarily the outcome at the moment, but it's about understanding why we got whatever it is at hand. So then we can change it in the future to be whatever we want.

I'll send you some videos. You can critique them. Well, thank you, Lena. This has been... So much fun. I'm, again, appreciative. It's honored to learn how to shoot from you because one of the best to ever do it. Thank you. Oh. Oh, thank you, Cam.

You're so sweet. And we all know how great you are. Otherwise, we wouldn't be listening to your podcast right now. Oh, thank you. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I know I did. Keep hammering. Yeah.