Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 080 - Best Adventures with Courtney

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

Join Cam and James G. Williams as they cover some Q&A’s from Instagram, how Cam met Courtney and more!  Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Thank you to our sponsors: Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off the Hoyt merch store MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping GoHunt: https://gohunt.com/ use code CAM when you sign up for $50 towards the gear shop + 10% off the GoHunt store Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Timestamps: 0:00:00 Q1: If you had one hunt left in your life, what and where would it be? 0:03:12 Q2: What do you recommend for socks on a 10K or higher? 0:04:57 Q3: What’s your race schedule for the next year? 0:07:01 Cam’s Current Injury 0:09:28 Cam’s Connection with Courtney Dauwalter 0:15:20 Ad Break 0:16:20 Courtney’s Limit & Willpower 0:22:46 Q4: Out of all the adventures/runs with Courtney, which is your favorite? 0:23:51 Q5: Out of everyone you know, do you think Courtney is the toughest? 0:28:03 Lift. Run. Shoot. Event in Eugene, OR 0:30:57 Outro: Upcoming Podcasts

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a keep hammering collective with James Gideon Williams. How many times is this for you?

You know, I try to stay humble, but too many to count. You're a one-man army designed to ruin this podcast. And you're like Rambo of podcast disaster. I'm a silent assassin. You are. Yeah. Yeah, except you're not as silent enough because people listen to you, then they're like, fuck, I hate this kid.

Just know as much as you hate me, I hate myself more. I thought that I put up a little story about there's this, she must be from Canada because she's got the little sorry or weird accent. But she's always like saying like she's sitting there watching her shows on TV. I put it up last night and people say mean things or hateful things about her. And she's like, I mean, I already hate myself. So that's me. What's the saying?

You can't say anything to me that I haven't said six inches from a mirror to myself. I like saying I've heard worse from better. So that's not really about yourself. Yeah. Well, all right. Got a couple topics, but you put up a Ask Me Anything. So I think we should run through a couple of these questions. That's AMA.

Yeah. If you had one hunt left in your life, what and where would it be? And this one is from Wilman 1321. It would just one hunt. Man, I'd like to draw this Winnihaw tag here in Oregon someday. They said I had 24 points, but I think I only have 23. But anyway, I've been putting in for it for decades. And it's Oregon's best outland unit.

So if I was going to have one left and I could draw that tag, it'd be cool to go public land in Oregon and kill. I mean, there's not, Oregon isn't known for giant bulls, but kill a big bull. I think that'd be pretty epic. Being new to Oregon is that like the best unit? Yeah. Yeah. That's the one everybody puts in for Wayne. You know, you draw it one time and it's pretty much it because, like I said, I got 23 points and didn't draw.

Do you know, has Wayne drawn it? Wayne had it, yeah. Yeah. Did he kill a nice bowl? Yeah. I think like a 340 or 350. How long ago was that? Probably 10 years ago by now.

So he couldn't have had that many points at that point. I think his dad had been putting him in since like 12. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know how many points he had. But then I think his son had it, Nathan too. And yeah, he did.

He killed like a decent bull. But yeah, Wayne's bull was nice. It was an Eastman's. It was a good story. This is a good one. And I wonder about this too. So Compass Grid Labrador's asks, what do you recommend for socks on 10K and higher?

And the reason this is interesting is because I've seen you run without socks a lot. Yeah. Is that common? No. That's just that you. That's just my, my stupid way of thinking is I'm toughening up my feet. So, you know, I've been on a lot of hunts where, or even races, where a blister, I mean, it starts affecting your gait.

And I mean, I've seen people quit on hunts because of fucking blisters. So, I mean, I'm never going to do that. But the theory in my head is to toughen up, calis up my feet a little bit by training with ow socks. And then when I race or hunt, obviously I'm wearing socks. I just, they're that much better off. Yeah. You never know when you're going to need to go sockless.

Raw dog. I was climbing with a buddy once and he's like, I got to go to the bathroom. So he leaves. I thought he was just taking a piss. Yeah. And he comes back wearing one less sock. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I would cut off a sleeve or the bottom of my shirt before I just gave up a sock. So I got to question that strategy. Yeah, definitely questionable. Yeah, wasn't Larry, was it? No, wasn't Larry. Okay. Yeah. That wouldn't surprise me if it was Larry.

I mean, Larry might just wipe with his boot and then come back with just, you know, one boot. Larry's wiping with his hand. Yeah. And thank God I didn't get this on my sock. Well, on the topic of races and socks. What's your race schedule for the next year? That comes from user. underscore jpw. For the next year, do these people know how I schedule my life?

I do. Yeah. I mean, so if there's a race tomorrow, I'd know about it. I sort of know about I'm doing a 10K on Sunday. So yeah, I'm not really big on the schedules. They also asked if you ever plan on doing a Cam Haynes 100-miler. Sure. Yeah.

Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. I mean, yeah, I'm not big on, I don't know, normally, like, as busy as I've been, normally I'm like, you know, I just got to get through huntsies and then I can recover. I got to, you know, get through this race and then I'll get a little break or I got a, got this event or this appearance or this podcast, and then I'll, you know, the lights at the end of the tunnel.

I got a finish line right now. I told Trace this morning, I'm just like, I just got to get through this life. And I can finally get that sweet break of death. Fuck. Fucking, I'm hitting a wall. And I don't even know, I don't even, there's no end. Yeah, there's definitely no light at the end of the tunnel at the moment.

So, yeah, this retirement life is kicking my ass. While I remember at least, I thought it was interesting when Andy was here, you guys talked a little bit about wearing a watch because you never wear a watch. And he said he's actually not opposed to, you know, athletes not wearing a watch for pacing. I can't remember what was his reason to. Yeah, because you just start chasing numbers instead of how you're feeling and, you know, you get too wrapped up and performance there when, you know,

in racing and running, I mean, a lot of time your body's going to give you, you know, what it can. So it's a yeah, I mean, I think some people who are chasing numbers can end up screwing themselves up. Yeah. I just go by feel. Yeah. Someone asks about given your, this is a good segue, current slight injury. Let's dive into that a little bit into a little more detail.

I know you hate talking about injuries. Yeah. Because fucking so many people whying about stupid shit and I just don't want to be adding. I don't want to add to it. And nobody cares, really. I mean, but I guess there's there's part of it too because I do know people get injured. So they want to know, you know, do I ever get injured and how do I deal with it? And so I do understand that.

I just don't, there's enough of that stuff out there that, you know, or whining or negativity or. So I never want to be like, what was me? Look what happened. Right. I'm going to, you know, whatever. So I just don't address it. But yeah, it's, I did mention. when I put up that video yesterday,

that when you train every day, you're gonna, there's gonna be things that crop up. You know, we're not invincible. We are mortal. There's gonna be injuries that happen. So for me personally, I just, you know, if I'm hurt and I can't go at the same pace that I normally go out, I just go slower.

Just kinda, that's it, just do the best I can. Yeah, no rest for the wicked. You know, it's, it's probably best to rest and heal and obviously that all makes sense i mean it's you know it's probably the smart approach but i'm not that's not my style have you always been like that uh yeah i think so um i would just because i don't you know i think that rest and recovery is reserved for the talented so that that must be why I rest and recover so much. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're at that upper level. But yeah, so I'm just like,

no, I can't afford to take time off. I can't afford to miss days training. I just don't have that luxury. Yeah, it was funny. I was talking with somebody just about my job and, you know, how much fun it is. And then they were like, you know, I could see the only downside being, I don't think you're calling in to take a sick day anytime soon. I saw you had the sniffles. So. Yeah. One of the first weekend updates or solo podcast we did with me on it, we kind of talked about your and Gaggin's relationship, kind of how that came to be. And I think it would be cool to do that with some of these, you know, elite people that

you're friends with. So today I kind of wanted to dig into your relationship with Courtney. How, I guess, when did you first hear about her? It was when I ran the Moab 240 and she was running it. too and I didn't know that but uh at that time I hadn't heard of her this was like 2018 or 2017 but anyway is you know me and Taylor were running moab 240 tough race long race obviously 240 miles and uh I was I was trying to run smart um which I usually go out way too fast but I was being conservative so I kept checking in like who was leading the race and they kept saying that this

Courtney girl. And I was like, what? And it's like, where is she? And then they'd say, and she was way the hell out there. And I'm like, oh, man, she must have, there's no way. There's no way somebody could be that far ahead of the field already. And turns out she's a phenom best in history. And so she won outright by hours, right?

And I finished, me and Taylor were, I came in, and Taylor was like, I think 19 minutes behind me. and we were around maybe 10th or 11th somewhere in there. I can't remember now. But so decent effort, 78 hours maybe is when we came in. So it was a tough test. But Rogan was tracking me during that race, but by proxy, he was also seeing Courtney.

Right. So I talked to her a little bit, her and Kevin, her husband, And after the race, just like briefly didn't, you know, I can't remember what. I think I had just finished. So who knows what kind of mental state I was in, but maybe just said hi. And she, of course, had been resting for like a couple days since she finished. And so she was fresh and I think sipping on a beer. But Rogan ended up because of that, her performance there, just incredible performance,

crushing it. He had her on his podcast. And then that kind of, just like I learned of her, a lot of other people learned of her. And also learned of these 200-mile races, which Candace Burt puts on and she does a great job and just a race director queen of these long ultras. So I really liked that two women who I really respect Courtney and Candice

just started getting a lot of attention, but specifically Courtney, because she went on from then, went on her, run and has still been on that run just unprecedented just crushing ultra setting course records doesn't look like she'll ever slow down i mean you know i think she's 38 and just seems like she's getting better and tougher and more dialed in so um i like hanging out with outliers i like being around you know it's that old adage you're you know going to be um kind of a combination of the five people you hang So to me, if I can hang around with all freaks and I'm some, you know, schlub, dip shit,

I'm going to be a little bit better just by hanging out with them. So I'm like, yeah, so she's like the type of person who I want to hang out, learn from, get into the mindset of and, you know, just, I don't know, just whatever, spend time. So we've done some really good trainings over the years. We did the Grand Canyon Rim to Rim to Rim, which is like 47 miles. I think. We did that in like 11 and a half hours. Had some lemonade at the bottom is an awesome day. She was much fresher than I was and we came out of that South Rim.

But that was fun. We've done 40-some mile runs there outside of Golden Colorado. We did, I ran with her for 26 hours. I think, I don't know how many miles, maybe 65 miles when she was going after the Colorado Trail record. So yeah, we've had some great adventures and want to make more of them, but mostly she's just an incredible athlete, I mean, but in an even better person. So as I said, that's the type of person I want to hang out with and try to learn from. Then I'm also fascinated by her performance and what makes her so good and how she can push so hard when anybody else in the world would dial it back because the herding. and she can somehow lean into that.

So that's why I've been fascinated with talking to these doctors, like Huberman, like Andy Galkin the other day, about how can we measure willpower, heart, pain threshold, because I want to know, I want some data on how can she do it? I mean, how do you explain it? Because I'm just fascinated by it. I've been in those, you know, she talks about the pain cave. I've hurt, really hurt in these races.

And then it's, you know, you're going against every instinct to keep pushing and push harder when your body's telling you to rest, dial it back. We need, you know, fuel, calories, hydration, whatever it is. So I just, that, there's like a point there where she can push in the rest of the human race pulls back. So why? How?

Yeah, right. I mean, I know one of your favorite quotes from Prefontein is, I want a suicide pace and today's a good day to die. And we've kind of been talking about how, I know we talked about it with Andy or you, you know, there's some people out there that are capable of pushing to debt. You know, it's not obviously a common thing.

Do you think that she's someone that, could do that, you know, push yourself so hard that it's detrimental to herself. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, death, I don't know. But, you know, these hundreds and two hundreds aren't good for you just in general. I mean, it's not like this is making you healthier. So, but yeah, she, she, man, I don't know. I think she could.

I don't ever want that to happen. But, yeah, I mean, there's that. so there's that limit, but we're all all trying to find the limit. Like, what's my limit? How hard can I push? What am I capable of? So finding that and then going too far, I mean, most people never have to worry by going too far because we stop way before that.

But for the special people like Courtney, that line of pushing as hard as you can, reaching new thresholds or going too far, that's, you know, that's pretty thin line, raise their edge. So on that Colorado Trail, when you ran with her, what at what mile did you jump in? I came in at like two something. She'd been going for a few days, I think, three days. So I think she was, I can't remember where, but I know I ran with her to like 285. She was at 285 total.

And then she made it to 309 before she had to go to the emergency room. She was having serious health issues. Yeah, you talked about that the other day too. Like, you know, you started to pick up the pace a little bit because you wanted to go on and just kind of check things out. Yeah, yeah, me and Kevin was on this one stretch with us. And there's a big, I mean, you could look at the bottom and you see this big climb we had to do.

And so, you know, I just wanted to kind of push and get up it because I've been going for a while too, not for four days or three days, but you go for 26 hours. I mean, you'd notice that, right? So I'm like, I just want to get up this hill. And so I was pushing kind of hard. Kevin was, you know, kind of right there too. He's in good shape, an ultra runner himself.

And I thought because Courtney was struggling, she was going to take her time probably coming up that hill up that. I mean, it was a pull. And so like I said, I was going hard. She'd been going for four days at this time, something like that, over 200 miles. And I look back thinking, well, she's going to be at the bottom of the hill probably picking her way up she was right there and i'm like

how in the hell because i would i thought i was pushing hard kevin was you know it wasn't like easy and there she was they're just just incredible even with all these these health issues she was having even with a hundreds of miles on and the days and no sleep still it was incredible yeah so that's just a glimpse into her heart or willpower which that's what i'm you know is fascinating. Yeah, it definitely is. It would be really cool to somehow get some metrics on, you know, her performances and what she's capable of.

Yeah, it's weird, too, because, you know, I was talking to Galpin about that, about, like, VO2 Max, you know, we talked about animals. They're VO2 Max. You talked about Lance Armstrong, you know, his was up 89 or 90. And then, you know, if you figure, if you look at an athlete and their VO2 Max is this number, then you'd say, well, this guy who's racing him is down here, so there's no way he can beat him, right? But that's just one metric.

So it takes more than one metric to be superior in regards of the activity. So yeah, I don't, I can't, I wouldn't say that we'd look at like if there's a metric for willpower and she was at whatever it was, way above whatever, that's just one part of it. But it is an interesting part, just like V-O-2 max. I just want to see the full spectrum. Yeah. Of why does this magic formula work where she's just, you know, the best in the history of women endurance.

Yeah. Or maybe almost human endurance because she's getting close to that overall. Yeah. You know, obviously I've never met her, but from what I've heard, she just sounds like a super humble person. Yeah. It's like irritatingly humble. I'll like try to get her to say something about her.

Never, never. She'll never talk about herself. So I was trying to trick her a million times on the podcast and just not going to happen. So I don't know. I mean, maybe she's drunk or something. Maybe that's the key. She's just drunk on all these runs. Yeah.

I don't know. Maybe she's like giving me a secret, her training secrets or racing secrets, something. Well, I mean, that makes me curious. Do you think she would be open to, you know, doing those? tests and having those metrics even. I mean, like the podcast I've listened to with her on it, she's just like, I just run. Yeah, I know. No.

I know. I don't know. You know, she's, I think she cares more about that type of, I mean, I don't actually don't know. All I know is she, I think she taught biology, right? So obviously she cares about science. Yeah. And most people who are interested in stuff like that,

would care about their body and like performance and how can they be better and what can they what can we learn so i would think just as a rule of thumb knowing her and her history yeah but the way she acts no so i don't know if there's how we get that that sweet spot but uh yeah i'd you know i'd love i don't know i'd just love to i don't even know what machines you hook them up to but hook her up to some machines checked lactic acid check u2 max check whatever and just try to get some data that correlates with her performance yeah that be super cool yeah it'd be interesting um out of all the the adventures you guys have done what's like the the one that you are the fondest of um yeah yeah i didn't really like the colorado trail because i didn't like

seeing her yeah hurting like that but uh the grand canyon was the best for sure it was that was super fun and it's so beautiful and we saw a big horn sheep we saw i don't even know what else but but had that lemonade, which I freaking needed, because I was dried out after all that. But yeah, it was just a good adventure. And then her husband was up at the top with Billy Yang, who's also a filmmaker. And so we filmed a little bit of that for Billy's thing.

I think we did a podcast too in the hotel room. And that was good. I really like Billy. He does great work. And, you know, of course, Kevin is, Courtney's husband, is just the nicest guy ever. So yeah, it was fun. Yeah.

Would you do that one again? Oh, yeah. I'd love to. Yeah. I'd love to do it like every weekend. Yeah. It's just hot as hell right now. So out of everyone you know, do you think she's the toughest?

I mean, yeah. I mean, she's, you know, Roy was pretty dang tough. I mean, I'm looking at this right here. It says Roy tough. Yeah. So Roy. I don't know. She's up there. She's, yeah, definitely up there. I mean, Gaggins is tough. I'm lucky. I'm super fortunate to have spent time with some of the toughest people in history. Right. You know, nobody really knows Roy except, you know, hunters. But he was legendary and his, what he could overcome and his attitude on overcoming it. And yeah, just his approach to any challenge in the mountains was extraordinary. And then Gagans, he's, you know,

larger than life, spent quite a bit of time with him. We've done a lot together. And then Courtney. So yeah, all three of them, I mean, you couldn't go wrong with saying they're as tough as they come. Yeah. So I don't know how to rank, how to rank them. No.

Yeah. And I mean, I wonder, you know, people like that, if it's an innate ability or it's like we've talked about, how do you measure that, you know, but I'd. Yeah. I mean, it's weird because I, you know, Goggins, my. be a chip on a shoulder, just a hard childhood. So he's got this resentment and that's like that fuels him or proving people wrong or having doubters, which I get

because that fuels me a lot too. But then Courtney had by all accounts a good childhood, came up loving parents, you know, brothers. So where did that turmoil, you know, kind of forged people? People can be forged in the fire essentially. And then Roy also, great family, you know, five sisters, him, I think, or maybe four sisters. But mom and dad, best, you know, his dad probably was pretty tough. I think he was, you know, really worked for Roth construction.

So being a contractor, you're going to be tough. So he was, might have been tough on him as far as work ethic-wise, but very loving dad. So it's like, yeah, where did that edge or the, you're going to be tough? that drive or the will to just keep fighting, where do that come from? Because it's not like, there's not a standard, like, oh, here's a formula. Right. So I don't know. Yeah.

I'm sure there'd be some way to test pain tolerance, but it probably wouldn't be ethical. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. And there's something, too, about just testing pain tolerance just to test pain tolerance. tolerance or when you're dealing with pain to achieve a goal. Yeah. You know, so it's like a lot of people would quit if you're just saying,

okay, I'm going to shove this nail through your hand as slow as possible and tell me when to stop or get through this race and it's going to hurt that bad. Right. But there's like a goal. Yeah. You know, so it's different. It's just like how bad did this person on that day want to achieve this goal and what are they willing to suffer or sacrifice to get to it.

Right. And on some, maybe the next day, they wouldn't have pushed that hard. Or maybe the day before, it wouldn't have meant that much. But on that day, that's what's so impressive about Courtney is on, you know, she shows up for these races. And everybody's like, oh, there she is. She's going to win. There's no guarantee on these things. You don't know what your body's going to do, but she's able to perform on that day pretty much every time. Yeah. That's incredible. consistently. Yeah.

It's funny, you know, the contrast between her and Goggins. It's like Goggins, you know, when he overtakes someone, he's taking someone's soul. Yeah. But she is like, hey, you're doing great, you know? Yeah. I know. I know. It's a night and day different, but both just badasses.

Yeah. Yeah, that's super cool. Well, moving forward, speaking of being really tough, well, we're going back down to be on the movie set. Yeah, but before that we've got the lift run shoot event this weekend Starts tonight at the bow rack Big fun day on tomorrow and then a run on Sunday. Yeah, it's gonna be great. I'm excited to see everybody So many of my partners have come in and playing part of this. It's so cool plus

You know getting everybody down there at the bow rack with the rivets cooking up bear meat It's a it's I don't want to say once in a lifetime because I'm not trying to make my seem like it's a big thing, but it's like it's a pretty unique experience because everybody sees the bow rack. They hear about Wayne and Lisa. It's like this whole it's this whole thing, right? So to be able to go down there and experience the bow rack in all its glory and get a brand new bow, which you know, we've got 20 people coming in, brand new bow getting set up by Wayne and all, you know, Trent and all the guys down there who are so good at working on arch equipment. So custom set up with the bow, hang out, eat bear me, just everybody likes hanging out the,

going to the bow rack is basically like going to a bar for a drinker. It's like you go and you tell hunting stores and hang out a bunch of people you like. So it's a pretty special environment. And then with all the partners there, my, you know, Hoy, Jeremy Eldridge is here. Grizzly Coolers, Go Hunt, Lorenzo and his team is here. You know, it's mountain ops, of course, are a big part of this whole event. It's, man, it's, I don't know, it's kind of like a dream come true because I've done this lift run, shoot thing. And, you know, when I first started, it would definitely get criticized by a lot of guys who don't want to really train to hunt, which is fine.

They can do whatever they want. I never, I never have told anybody what they should do. I just say what I do. So, but it's cool from being criticized for what I do to now, you know, to share it in half. people want to come and experience it for themselves and have it be this like this life altering thing because everybody who was here last year just said it was the best time of their of their life they you know it was better than they ever expected so it's uh it means a lot to me um and uh yeah i'm i'm just excited just to share the next three days with everybody yeah i wasn't here last

year uh for it so excited to hang out with everyone and see how it goes Yeah, it's going to be fun. Yeah. Well, that's all I had on my list. Yeah, I got to go get some my doll for my ankle or my foot. Your foot. Yeah. All right, guys.

So this is going to be, here's my special goal for this week. We're going to do five podcasts this week. We're doing Andy Monday, Cam Canada, NFL veteran Tuesday. Gideon. The biggest loser on Wednesday. Unleashed on Wednesday. I'm not sure I think Lorenzo from Go Hunt maybe Thursday,

and then maybe Eric McCormick used to train me for years, total badass. One of the best trainers out there. Outlaw strength is hopefully Friday. So next week, when this comes out, we're going to have five new podcast, five days, a podcast extravaganza. Leave your comments,

download the podcast. Let's get the, I'm going after Rogan's approach because he'd say he floods the market. That's how he stays up top. Right. So I'm going to flood the market. The difference is Rogan has like an Elon Musk or a Joe Biden.

And I got Gideon. And you've got an autistic cameraman. Right. So it's like, I mean, I got the numbers like, you know, as far as the number of podcasts,

but the I'm not sure if the downloads are going to match. Yeah, at least not on mine. The other guests are much better, just not me. No, for whatever reason, people, I mean,

I had somebody say specifically, I love the podcast with you and James. And then I was just like, are you fucking with me? Well, I guess we know that they're on drugs. Well, no,

it wasn't because that was John Rivett. So he's 100% sober and I'd totally believe him. So, I mean, We make fun of it, but people do like you. People do like your personality. For whatever reason.

Yeah, no. I mean, it's, yeah, you don't get much positive affirmations from me. But you do a good job with this co-hosting thing. I think we need to get Rihanna in here. If she can carry that belly over here somehow, one of these days. I don't know if, I'm kind of thinking she's just lying about being pregnant. Yeah, she's just a big drinker. That's a beer belly now.

It hasn't grown or shrunk. No. She's been pregnant for two years. So it's like, I'm not sure what's going on. Apparently it kicks. Yeah. All right. Well, so stay tuned.

We've got another one, another new podcast coming up tomorrow. And make sure you listen to them all. Perfect. Keep hammering.