Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 081 - Lorenzo Sartini

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

Join us for a discussion with Lorenzo Sartini, founder & CEO of GoHunt. Lorenzo owns the vision of the company and keeps everyone on track to building a great product for western hunters and leading the team on their creative path, guiding content ideation, product development and core service offerings. Listen in as Lorenzo and Cam talk about the pushback in the hunting community, the goals for GoHunt and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Lorenzo: https://www.instagram.com/lorenzo_gohunt/  Thank you to our sponsors: GoHunt: https://gohunt.com/ use code CAM when you sign up for $50 towards the gear shop + 10% off the GoHunt store Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Ketone IQ: https://hvmn.com/CAM use code CAM for 20% MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order  Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: The Decline in Hunting Numbers 0:05:36 The Growth of Technology in Hunting 0:08:24 Colorado’s Wolf Population 0:10:15 The Next Generation in Hunting Sponsorships 0:12:16 Anti-Hunters & the Government 0:16:10 The Right Representation of Hunting  0:21:41 Lorenzo’s Partnership with Howl 0:26:58 Ad Break 0:29:00 Goals for GoHunt & Lorenzo’s Background 0:38:06 The Hunger to Create a Legacy and Continue a Tradition 0:43:17 “Grin-N-Grins” & Social Influence 0:50:49 Lorenzo’s Takeaways from the Lift. Run. Shoot. Event 0:55:29 Lorenzo’s Films on YouTube 0:58:52 Lorenzo’s Podcast: Big Hunt Guys

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammering Collective.

I'm with Lorenzo Serentini, right? Sartini. Sartini. Well, I'll have to, in full disclosure. So we're talking today and somebody said something about my shitty shooting form. And then they said something about, well, whatever. shooting form talked about Alonzo Ball. Yeah. With shitty shooting

form in the NBA. So I accidentally said Alonzo talking about you. Yeah. So I'm like, I fucked that up. Hey, I get it. Lorenzo. I have gotten it my entire life. So I went to my high school in Las Vegas that I went to. We had an awesome

security guard. I went to one of the older private high schools down on the strip and it was literally like on the strip. I mean, it's not, they are no longer there, but I was the last class to go all four years there. of course, right? I didn't get the new, the new nice stuff. Right. And he called me Alonzo every day of my life. And I always told him it's Lorenzo, but don't worry about it. You should just change it. I know, right? Yeah, that would make it simpler. Just go for it. No, well, it's, it's great to have you here. It's, you know, I've been following you for a long time. I know what you've been doing with with Go Hunt.

And it's, I mean, you're making an impact on the industry, which is, you know, that's, that's hard to do. Yeah. It's hard to do. And then when you do, when you do, do that, you're also putting yourself out there to be judge, criticized, celebrated. Also, we get celebrated for good things too. But, you know, anytime you're making an impact like you have, you're going to get good and bad. Exactly. That's why they say you're not doing enough if you're not pissing somebody off, right? Yeah. It's just what it is. Yeah. But thank you for that. I appreciate it. We've been working hard at it for a long time. And it all comes from the threat of like genuinely believing in and wanting to support the North American wildlife model of conservation,

right, which is the opportunity for hunters to go hunting, spreading the tags across multiple hunters, multiple units, and, you know, in turn, raising money for these states to actually protect their wildlife better, manage their hunting better, right? That's where it all comes from. Yeah, and, you know, there's, I mean, so many layers to this, but, you know, Colorado just eliminated non-resident, elk hunting without first you got to draw to the tag. But it's crazy because they're going to limit non-resident. And that's how these states make money. Because they charge non-resident so much money.

So where is that loss of income going to come from? Because they rely on those funds to do everything they do for conservation. Correct. And so there's that thing. But then I was talking to Jeremy Eldridge earlier from Hoyt. And he says, if you like put in Google trends, because we're talking about hunting numbers, and everybody loves to bitch about how crowded is out west, which, you know, I know there's areas that are crowded.

I'm not disputing that. But he said, if you look at Google trends, you put in bow hunters or hunting numbers. If you look at the trend, it's definitely going down. Absolutely, it is. Hunter numbers are going down. So how can it be more crowded? It's an interesting question. because there's a lot of variables.

There's a ton of variables when it comes to hunting. Loss of access, private land or the government buying land and locking it up timber companies, private companies, whatever. Lots of habitat for sure. Lots of habitat, drought, fire. There's so many variables. So I'm not going to dispute the fact that some places are more crowded. They absolutely are. But there's so many more variables than just there's so many more hunters.

Because it's not just that hunting in hunter numbers are going. down. The most concerning part of that math model is the age of the hunters themselves. Like a lot, the baby boomers have carried the hunting conservation for decades. Decades. And we are not replacing those baby. They're going to phase out, right? It's like Wayne said today, last I checked, death is battened 100%. Right. You're not getting away from it. Yeah. So if we don't replace those baby boomers and we don't replace that revenue to the to the states themselves, what is going to happen to hunting for my son, right? Or his son. It's, it's, it's a math model that if you're not replacing, something's going to happen. Right. It's, uh, yeah, I mean, people, I don't know, because I know how it feels.

Like when I was hunting in the wilderness, if I saw one, if I saw a boot track, I'd be like, what the fuck? Yeah. I hated, so I get it. I, every person's competition to me back there. I understand. And I was thinking, I wonder if it's because back when I started, I, I would have to go to REI, buy four different topo maps, cut them out, tape them, try to figure out how to get into this area from what trailhead, read all that. And now, you know, I mean, you guys have a program too. There's mapping programs that give. I just had to do all that and then still get confidence to go that far back.

And most people wouldn't do it because everybody's like, when it gets dark, I got to get back to the truck. So now these mapping programs have given people confidence that you had to really earn. over decades back when I first started. And is that giving people confidence to go deeper? It is. So the guys who are deeper, they're like, holy shit, why is there other guys back here? Yeah.

And those are the other variables is reading paper topo maps, which is I'm not that old, but when I started hunting, like I was doing the same thing. I'd go to mytopa.com. I'd print out a custom area of the paper map for where I wanted to hunt and I would have to navigate a topographic map. GPS units, same thing. Well, then when these, when smartphones started taking over and becoming GPS units, now there was satellite imagery right on the phone with the little blue dot. Everyone feels so comfortable with that little blue dot in the direction.

You know right where you're going. Right where you're going. Yeah. So I think that has a lot to do with it. And then gear as well, right? Yeah. For sure. Arturics was, has been for a very long time just through and through the best.

But hunters weren't adopting that type of stuff very early on. Yeah. So it was around, but people weren't using it. Well, then you had companies like Sica come out and Koo you and First Light and all these companies. Well, now it's the gear. You're warmer. You're more comfortable. You're shedding sweat better.

You're shedding rain better. It's like the comfort level in the backcountry has gotten. I mean, it's better than it's ever been. And then you have that smartphone in your pocket where you know, you're good, no matter what. It's, you know, because what drove a lot of people out of the mounds was fucked up feet. So better socks, better boots. You say, you know, arterics. So the mountaineering community was way ahead of hunters.

It took us a while. But yeah, now it used to be when you get soaking wet, you're like, holy shit, I got to get out of here. I got to get to. It becomes life or death. It's right. And then, like I said, knowing which way to go, you know, when you had a topo map and you're in big country like the Eagle Cap and then weather comes in and you can't see peaks, you're just like reading contours, but you can you can only see, you know, 100 yards. Yeah. That's scary.

and having to use a metal compass to figure out which ways north and this, people didn't like that. Most people wouldn't deal with that. So I wouldn't see hardly anybody deep. So, yeah, there's a lot of factors. But what you can't ignore is even if we had the same amount of hunters, the percentage of the population is so much smaller. Because our population from, say, if there's 14 million back in the 70s,

and now there's 14 million hunters. But now there's how many more millions of citizens? So it's our percentage, which people say, well, that's never going to affect, it's still only 5% or 4% of the population. But where it changes in my opinion is it's those. So it's the percentage, but it's also those people who are supporters of hunters, who those hunters talk to, who be like, yeah, I don't hunt, but I know this guy who hunts. And I like what he's about. I get it.

So that smaller percentage, you're going to have, by proxy, you're going to have support. But when it's smaller, you're having a smaller support. So that shows up in the ballot box. And that's what fucks us in Colorado. This ballot box biology. And it's not just the hunter numbers, but it's also the supporters of hunters. So when all that is shrieking, it's not good. It's not good.

It's really not good. And Colorado already had a massive loss with the reintroduction of, well, I actually hate saying reintroduction because it's actually introduced new species. It's not a reintroduction of a species. It's not a reintroduction of a species that was supposed to be there. It's an introduction of a brand new wolf species of a subspecies of wolf. Used to be the North American Gray Wolf. Now it's the McKinsey River Valley Wolf out of Northwest Territories.

Wildly different, wildly different species of wolf. That's what we introduced to Yellowstone and now Colorado. And the public vote is what got that put in place because they, you know, the government there had changed some legislature of, you know, the CPW, the Colorado Parks and Wildlife, they no longer control the decision making. Now it's public vote. Yeah. They took it out of the scientists and biologist's hands and put it into a bunch of, you know, we all know what Denver has turned into over the years.

And that's who's voting on this stuff. So now on the chopping block this November is this trophy hunting bill, which is way more threatening than the wolf introduction. And, yeah, I mean, they're looking down the barrel of a loss of predator hunting. Right. Yeah. Which, it's crazy. Yeah.

And we've, you know, you can get way down the rabbit hole on that. So, you know, you have all these predators in there. They're knocking down elk and deer. Then you don't need hunters to do that because there's nothing to hunt. So then it's, you know, I talked about this on Rogan. Is that a way to take away firearms down the road? Because they say, well, you said you needed firearms to hunt. Well, there's nothing to hunt.

So what do you need firearms for? So it's like you can get pretty deep into it. But then another thing that I was that I was also thinking like, you know, with Hoyt, and Jeremy is talking about, I was asking them, who's the new, the young, new pro staffer, like the hot young guys. How much? The pro sepher, they have me, Waddell, Omer,

Ralph and Vicky. It's just like, you know, we're not, we're old. So where's the fucking, still getting after it. But you said, just like you said is this next generation. So it's like, that tells me is like, well, there should be some young. hot guys coming on the scene that deserve sponsorships are right on the cusp and they have they're earning a

name and painting hunting in a great light for their generation yeah so who who's doing that you know not not enough they're all there's a kid chris b i think he shoots matthews he does a pretty good job yeah he's he does a good job on uh on youtube for sure um but yeah so i mean if you just look at those little examples right there it doesn't give you a great feeling no about the future of hunting because majority of them are locked on their phone sitting in a city taking shirtless selfies instead of taking pictures in the backcountry and painting hunting in a good light you know they all they all think they're tough and strong but they don't ever leave the comfort of their home so yeah it's what it is it's uh yeah i mean i don't know it's i don't want to be a doomsdayer no because there's so many good things to celebrate about

what we're doing because if you look at like these opportunities that we have right now we'll but we've created you know nobody's handed us anything but so it's not like all hope is lost because because we're doing, I mean, this event, this event gives me a lot of confidence that we've had this lift run shoot today because you see a lot of people who've never hunted, never shot a bow, and you see that passion is just exuding. They just wanna learn.

So I feel good, but we need more experiences like this, I believe. I agree and we need more people putting it in a good light to certain generations and certain outreaches of networks so people can understand the respect of hunting and what hunting actually is and not look at it as, you know, this blood sport kind of a thing that a lot of the anti's like to spread, right? And, you know, what I, what I like

to equate what's going on to right now is with the antis, they're like the Chinese. The Chinese are, they play the long game. They are dedicated. They have a lot of patience. They'll plant spies in the US at 18 years old and let them retire in a company to go back and, you know, report what's going on here. Yeah. The antis are also in the long game and how you're saying, is this, is this a reason to come after the guns and the next thing and the next thing? I think it is. I do think it's part of their game plan of the long game the patience the extrapolation of funds and all this stuff to go against hunting but at the end of the day no one is more passionate about the animals than hunters so as long as we

can all get aligned and in communicate and get on the same page and actually show up and willing to play the long game on our side I think we have tons of reasons to win I think we have tons of optimism that it's actually gonna come out for the better I mean we have California which again we only know what California is and not just Denver, but the Catalina Island coal of the over 2,000 mule deer, like that got shot down. That's a great win for a state like Colorado and it's a phenomenal win for hunters. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's funny. Like we talk about, it's, it's been talked about quite a few times with the California ban on mountain lines. How they said hunters don't

need to kill mountain lions and all. They killed more mountain lions without hunters with taxed money and the government was just killing them. It's the same. More lions. died. Instead of making money off a hunter's at tag sales. And less cats died with the hunters than they did with the state coals and all that stuff going on. So Colorado is just, they're following suit that it's very clear what happens, right? You can look at California and understand it very clearly. If you take away predator hunting, it's just going to turn into California. You're going to kill more cats. You're just going to do it on your own dime through tax money instead of hunters wanting to go do it and not wasting the animal. Yeah. And also, I mean, I think people think that we're spending

some weird tale about, you know, the dangers of having predators out there. But I'm pretty sure a bear just killed somebody in California last week, wasn't it? I mean, and so it happens. There's more and more bear encounters. And this is also a very easy math puzzle to put together. If you, if those alpha predators, right, are coming into contact with humans over and over and over again. and they never feel a threat from a human, it's only a matter of time before they start to actually engage

and ingress on a human, right? Like, if they feel safe, they're just going to keep pushing the limits and pushing the limits, and it's just going to keep getting worse. It already is. We're watching it in real time, just get worse. Yeah, I mean, it's not too hard to look at just how, what happens in Montana and Wyoming in the back country with Grizzlies

compared to what happens in Alaska or Canada. You know, it's way more dangerous. People are getting torn up all the time in lower 48 because they're not hunting the grizzly. So there has to be that innate fear of man. And if there's not, I mean, I just hunted up with John and Jen and Alberta. We were hunting, we were probably bear so far back, just black bear, but they had probably never seen humans.

And they aren't afraid. They'll come with a video today. It's crazy. They'll come right here. So it's just because there hasn't been that, Oh, so if I get close to this thing standing upright on two feet, I'm going to get shot at. There's going to be a loud noise.

I'm going to get wounded. But without that, it's like, what's keeping them in check? Nothing. They're the alpha. They're used to be in the top. Correct. And they'll just keep aggressing until they feel a threat back. And if they don't ever get it, it just keeps going.

That's what a predator does. Yeah. And they're, I mean, they're good at it. You know, they've survived a long time with that attitude. So it's going to take a little while. But yeah, it's a, I don't know, it's a crazy time right now as a hunter. It's pretty complicated. It used to be like, you know, you did your thing on an outdoor channel.

You wrote an article for Eastman's or outdoor life or whatever. And you kind of just preach to the same crowd and all good. Now with social media, we can reach a lot more people, but also we have a lot more people weighing in on hunting now. And so it's like you said, you know, having the right representation of hunting, it's never been more critical. Never been more critical to get that the message out there that shows truly what hunters feel

and how they conduct themselves. You know, not to stereotype, but we have to do, I mean, there's pressure on us to do it right. So I just wanted to make that point because what you guys are doing, I think is the right way to do it. I love the messaging.

I love the branding. I love your well-spoken. You're in time. crew on the podcast, all intelligent, smart, representing hunting the right way. I applaud you for that and it's so needed. And I just want you guys to just keep blowing up. Yeah, I appreciate that a lot, genuinely appreciate it. And, you know, we, I take a lot of pride and I take a lot of personal responsibility for the fact that we sit in a very interesting place within the hunting industry and hunting as a whole because first and foremost, we are consumers of hunters. Like we are

we are as passionate and as real as it gets for our own selfish needs of wanting to go hunting and wanting opportunity and wanting I want right like if I'm being completely honest I want every tag on the mountain and I don't want anyone else to have it that's just that's not a that's not a good I put it for a tag I was hoping to draw it I didn't want somebody else to draw it yeah and that's not a good longevity model though so the reality is it it doesn't work like that and we also work so closely with each of the state fishing game agencies with their data their harvest population hunter pressure all of that stuff so we understand it from the state's aspect as well of okay what is the best way to manage these animals with human expansion highway corridors new

housing developments and in the everyone wants a mountain house right they're all yeah piece and imparsing mountain land and taking habitat away that's along with the fires that are already doing it the drought that's already doing. There's so many variables that, you know, are putting outward pressure, outward pressures bringing into the animal themselves and not just hunting. So we see it from both, from both angles. So we take a lot of responsibility in being able to talk about it the right way, that we don't ever want to see a loss of opportunity to hunters because that's, that's not, it stings whenever hunters see that. And we don't ever want them to be deflated. We want to recruit more hunters. We want to keep the same hunters engaged that are already.

here we want to paint hunting in a good light but that all comes at you know also trying to balance what is best for the animals at the same time yeah i think there's two things just for the health of big game animals that are key is it's protecting those the winter migration corridors i mean highways are the number one issue with that yeah and you talked about people want those mountain houses you know high in the mountains or whatever but we have to be those animals have to get out of the high country to the low country to survive winter for sure. So yeah, highways are a big part of that. But then also the timber management. It's just like these fires burn so hot because there is no real timber management program in a lot of places. And it just makes these fires devastating.

And that, that, you know, habitat is ruined. So where do these animals go? Then they're forced out of the mountains, essentially, down on the roads, getting hit. So yeah, there's a couple big things like those migration routes and timber management. So, I don't know what that takes. Getting the message out there, educating our listeners. I'm not sure. It's, I feel like it's simple, but a lot of the times the simple things are the hardest to get the outward people to understand. But the, like the fires that you bring up, it's a great point.

When you have a forest that rips off into a fire, and instead of burning 100,000 acres, because humans, I mean, we are in some way, shape, or form putting pressure on the planet, whatever, whatever value that is. I'm not exactly sure. But we are doing something. What makes us believe that we shouldn't be managing in manicuring these forests as they're degrading because of what's going on, right? Whether it's drought or floods or whatever it is.

And now when a fire rips off and we've done no forest management, instead of burning 100,000 acres, it burns a million acres. That's a lot of lost habitat. Yeah. And those typically won't rebound for three to five years for it to be actually habitable

for the wildlife to go back to. Yeah. So what are they going to what is all that population of animal with that much loss of habitat? Where do they go? Just like you said, they go to where the people are. And that's where cars, highways, pressure, all kinds of stuff. And they don't like it. They don't do well there.

Or they go the other way on the mountain and get stuck when a winter storm comes in. And then it's winter die off. And it's just like, yeah, there's a lot that weighs in on it. Forests. Forest manicuring is a big issue. It's a huge issue. If we had a better, if we had a better grip on that, it would not be as bad as it is. Yeah.

Definitely not be as bad as it is. Yeah. I mean, I think while talking about it, so you verbalize it, you put it out there. And then we can create some action items, hopefully. So I also wanted to talk about your involvement with Howell and their fight, well, basically protecting hunter rights and just the wildlife model, as we know, which is, dictated by science and not emotion. Tell me about that your partnership with Howell. Yeah, so Howell has been incredible. So, you know, we've, we've been around for a little bit, but not long enough to actually get into, you know, the political game where we actually have

some say or some force, so to speak, when it comes to the political gain or loss of wildlife management, each of these states. And Howell has been amazing for us to skip a bunch of lily pads, get us up to speed, up to date. I love the guys over there. They do an incredible job. So instead of us learning on the fly and doing it with ourselves, we've partnered with Hal. And they are doing amazing things for all of the pressures that are the most concerning in the moment, which is what I really appreciate because a lot of the 501c3s, which they do amazing work, right, RMEF, Wild Sheep Foundation, all this stuff.

They do amazing work. But they have pre-established things that they donate to. So when you're giving to RMEF or you're giving to Wild Sheep, they have very, very, particular avenues that they invest in, whether it be access, whether it be putting sheep on the mountain, whatever it is. The way Howell goes about it with their, I'm not sure what they, what their government status is, 501C or whatever, but they are able to have put together funds and fight whatever is most pressing in the moment, which right now is Colorado is looking down the barrel of a loss of predator hunting, but it's done in such a way in language. And this is where politics

get really annoying and lawyers get even more annoying is because they know exactly what they're doing with language and how they can extrapolate it over time as long as they get a bill passed. Right. Because they can change language a lot easier than they can introduce and pass a bill. Right. So the language within this, within this, uh, um, trophy hunting ban in Colorado is they're defining trophy hunting through predators. So mountain lions, bears, links, bobcat, wolf, all this stuff. And it's going to make it illegal. But the problem is it doesn't. say predator hunting the language says trophy hunting which is defined by the pursuit of you know mountain lions bobcats all the predators basically hunting who's to say they can't change the language out from predators to the next cutest animals or the next prettiest animals mountain goats right sheep and then deer and then elk and then yeah the precedents a set exactly so what hal does um that i am very appreciative of of finding them and them allowing us to join forces with them is they fight the most pressing needs in the moment, whatever it is in whatever state it's in and whatever road

it's going down. They don't have strict guidelines on the rules that they can fund. So I think that's hugely needed in hunting with all these things popping up. Nevada, my home state, we're born and bred at in Nevada. That's where we're headquartered. And we're kind of next on the on the agenda as far as the lobbyists go for the anti-hunters. Right now, our commission is being lobbied by the ties. And it's it's just one domino after the other for them and howl is the support for when the fight comes. They're ready and they know what to do. They have the playbook and when it pops up, they can suppress it like the Catalina Island. Deerkel. They stepped up big time for that and they continue to step up all across the west and even east. There's some things going on

to the east as well. But they're they're an incredible organization. And I think they are for the moment itself, the pressing matters, they are the best money donation spent. Yeah, I agree. And I've, you know, I've helped them too and, you know, really believe in their cause. Same with the Colorado owns for responsible wildlife management, which is Dan Gates' organization. I think they work in in... They're in tandem. Right.

And there's an event I'm going to speak at in August there regarding this. But yeah, it's, I think it's our obligation to support outfits like that. are helping to fight on the ground too yeah and they're they're very active you know as as hunters it's you know you're training you're doing this and that it's hard to fight every day you know what I mean to to put to make a big stand on something every day but these guys do yeah so we can support them and they can do it exactly I had this conversation with the mountain ops guy earlier today at the at the shoot you know I'm not pointing any fingers because I'll be the first to admit I'm on pointing the finger at my

self with this statement, but hunters are absolutely famous for fighting and doing what we can do January through July or even August. And then once hunting season comes around, they're like, fuck off. I'm going hunting. Don't bother me. Right. And I am guilty of that. Yeah. But that when the votes happen, November. Right. That's when all these, all these state votes happen. And that's the anti-super Bowl. They are very focused on October, September, October, November, the vote itself. And they got no hobbies. No hobbies. And we're out there telling everyone to leave us alone. Yeah. That's the part that hunters, we need to, I need to lead by example here,

but we need to do a better job of showing up even when it is hunting season. Yeah. What's your goals with go hunt? And, you know, your family's been involved in business in Nevada. Why hunting for you? I'm getting to guess you're going to say it's because of what you love and your passion. But what's your, this has been wildly successful, it looks like from the outside in. What's the goals with go hunt?

Yeah. So, you know, the answer to why Gohan is a little, it's complicated, right? Because there's some personal emotion in that. So I do come from a huge family background. My family's been in big, huge business their whole life, not even big business. Mostly in the casino industry. And then, you know, most famously UFC and all that stuff. So I come from big success in the background.

And for different reasons, you know, I actually. even though we had two different complete completely different lifestyles growing up where you didn't have outlets and had to outwork everyone and to get ahead and to come 20 miles this way and meet guys like wayne and all this stuff going on you know i i actually do connect with that type of a story because in a very different way and believe me i'm not you know asking for anybody's uh you know pat on the back here by any means but creating a path for yourself when you grow up up that way is also hugely motivating because you look at it and you're like okay how can I ever outgrow the shadow right how can I ever do my own thing or become my own man or right you know I I am hugely competitive I have always wanted to be my own person do my own thing and be able to look myself in the mirror and say you know what you did it this was from no one else be but because of you and I know that sounds selfish but you kind of you kind of get a little selfish selfish edge to you with that type of a background.

And hunting was always my, that's what I was good at. That's what I was super passionate about. And I have a personality where, like, if I'm not overly passionate about something, I can't fake it. Yeah. You know, people say fake it to you, make it work until you,

I can't do that. I have huge respect for people who can compartmentalize, you know, the absolute just drain on, on yourself to go do the things you love. Like, if you're willing to sacrifice that, I've never been able to do it. And hunting was always where I could put 100% of my power, 100% of my thought, 100% of everything in me to think about and to do.

And so it was my natural path of like, okay, I can create something for myself here. But with the background of my family, I was thinking about it in kind of a bigger picture way of how can I build a business within hunting. And when I was grown up in Nevada, you know, Nevada residents don't have great opportunity. It's not like a Montana or Wyoming or any of that stuff. So grown up in Nevada, but coming from a hunting family, that's what we did on the very little free time.

My dad did have is we would go hunting. I was growing up, hunting multiple states, applying in multiple states, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, because we're not guaranteed tags every year in Nevada. So we had to. Yeah. And so I understood the model of Western hunting and applications and trying to draw tags in these in these state applications. I understood it from the Southwest model. Well, I ended up going to college in Montana to play football.

And when I found the opportunity, I always thought hunting was like really hard to get a tag, hard to find opportunity, had to draw tags. I go up to Montana. Next thing I know, there is hunting everywhere I look. You can go do it all the time from September. I became a huge waterfow hunter. So I was hunting 120 days a year in the Pacific flyway. You just can't do that stuff in Nevada. So I'm like, man, this is really different.

There is opportunity. If you want to go hunting, you really can. So I started to pay attention to how hard it was to find information on these states, right? Like in college, I was meeting people from Idaho and Wyoming and South Dakota and North Dakota. And they were telling me about all the hunting opportunity. I'm like, why is it so hard to find? And this is, I was in college from, 2006 to 2010 and this is when Amazon is blowing up all the online stuff Zillow all like everything was

just changing the no more travel agents now was Expedia yeah kayak and all that like man hunting is tailor made for for online like there's so much information and there's so much difference between each of these states they're also different whether it's opportunity or trophy hunting or this or that whatever it is like how was there not an outlet for that and so So I started to kind of wrap my head around this, this, uh, the problem with hunting. I was looking at it from kind of a bigger picture angle. And I surrounded myself with a lot smarter people than myself, which number one thing to do, right?

If you're ever trying to do something big. Um, Chris Porter brought in Brady Miller. He was one of our very first on hires. And we just started to throw a lot of really smart minds at how do we fix this problem of hunters not thinking there's any opportunity because this. hunters today think like opportunity is dwindling and the opportunity is still there it's just different how you go about finding it and getting it hey things change things change but there's still everything changes just as much opportunity right and back then people were saying opportunity was changing well then we came out now you know we get blamed for which I take a lot of pride in the go hunt effect it's like well shit we're doing something right if we're blamed for this go hunt effect and I look there there is some valid points in that because we have shown people opportunities and that is what we do. And that's what we're focused on.

But we're just putting a lot of smart minds behind it and looking at it from every angle of being first and foremost a passionate hunter and wanting opportunities for ourselves. But at the same time, understanding it from these parks and wildlife state offices of what they're dealing with as well. We meet with them regularly and we really understand it. So, you know, that's kind of the long and short of how it got put together. And going forward, you know, we, we have a lot of, we have a lot of want to, right now, one of the biggest things in hunting, one of the biggest problems like we were talking about earlier is the baby boomers have carried the hunting industry. And they're the ones helping these conservation models actually succeed with buying licenses

and going hunting. And the younger generation isn't backfilling it fast enough to, once they've kind of go off the cliff and then the teeter talker swings the other way, there's not enough. weight with this younger generation. You know, we're really focused on adult onset hunters who aren't, were, we're not fortunate enough to grow up with someone like me and my dad who took me and showed me hunting and you and Wayne and Roy and like the biggest loss for these younger hunters is the mentors who are taking them hunting.

That's like the, that's the guaranteed way to get a hunter into hunting is having a mentor or getting you into it young. So you're comfortable going through it for the rest of your life. So there's this community aspect that we really want to bolt on to go hunt where, you know, people can find hunting partners and share information and talk to each other and find the confidence to go hunting like the guys that are at your lift run shoot event. These, that's exactly why they're here. It's what they're looking for.

They want to be better. They want to do hard things. They want to get into hunting. They want to be self-sufficient. Like we want to really tie those types of people together and create that community. Yeah. And then on the technology side, this is where, you know, because we are a tech company kind of at foundation is the foundation of our product is technology. Yeah.

There is some wild capability with technology coming down the pipe. And it's our responsibility to manage like where's the cutoff on technology and hunting because hunting is primitive. Hunting is, it's one of the hardest things there is to do. So how easy are we going to allow as hunters, how easy are we going to allow technology? to make it. But with things like AI, things like low-level Wi-Fi coming from Starlink and Elon Musk, like there is some wild tech possibilities coming. And we're still kind of wrestling with the moral compass of like what's acceptable and what's not. What's an acceptable advantage that we're willing to take on? Yeah. Exactly. So we have a lot of a lot of want for the future. Like we're by no means

is our story even halfway written here. We have a lot of things that we have. coming down the line for, you know, product roadmap and community building and just who we want who we want to be as a brand. Yeah. You know, that's what we're focused on is being a household brand that paints hunting in a good light helps level the teeter-totter for these baby boomers once they start phasing out and we're bringing new hunters in because they see it in a good light. They understand the responsibility behind it.

And that science and data actually does work despite what, despite what other people like to say. Yeah. It's, you know, I do want to backtrack. You said, you know, you don't deserve a pat on the back for doing this because you came from a successful family. To me, you do, you deserve a lot of credit because people in your situation usually don't have that hunger to break out because why they don't need, like for me, I had no choice. Yeah. I was going to be a fucking loser if I didn't do something. So you, you were in a great position, but you still chose to take on this new challenge.

That to me, that's huge. That you could easily fell in line and just done whatever. But because you wanted to create your own legacy, you decided to go this way. To me, that's harder than me who had no choice. I mean, I applaud you for this effort. But I also applaud, again, this team that you've, you know, with Trail, Brady, Omar, that team that you've created and what you're doing is like, I mean, it's, you guys are kicking ass. I appreciate it. I love to see it.

And I just love the professionalism, the way you go about it, the way you speak about it, and just your vision. I think there's a huge upside, but you're right, it's that education. It's facilitating this next generation and helping them understand the importance of it. And I think we get out there because with social media, we can impact. Most my followers are young men. You know, my biggest age group is 25 to 34, right? That's most my followers.

So we have this opportunity. I don't know what Gohan is or what yours is personally, but that's generally who's on Instagram. Facebook's probably a little older. But Instagram, we have this opportunity if we do it the right way to influence a lot of young men. Exactly. And I think I know like these people here today that come,

there's a lot of men out there who maybe didn't grow up hunting, didn't say it like a Rogan. And they look at what we're doing and they see it and they're like, I'm missing something. Yeah. I don't have anything like this in my life. I don't have anything that I feel like. like feeling like a provider, like putting fucking meat in your freezer from what you've done,

you killed, you packed it out, you processed it. That is life-changing. And then that impacts how others look at you. You're like, oh, yeah, that guy, yeah, he gave me some elk meat one time. That's, you know, when can we have that type of impact on others? We can't, really. And so being a hunter should be celebrated. I think I mentioned this over there in one of the talks today.

It's like, we get criticized. we get looked down upon people who don't understand hunting for being, you know, whatever, killers or murders or whatever we are, rednecks. We should be celebrated and respected, because this is how life, I think, is the most fulfilling way to live it, being a true provider. Completely agree.

And that's one of the talks we gave today to some of the group. Like a lot of my passion into hunting, too, obviously everyone's groomed from their childhood to a certain extent and a lot of my childhood which I love you're saying must be nice like I can guarantee I've probably heard that more than yeah I'm sure must be nice yeah it is really nice yeah I don't know what to tell you it's really nice but it it kind of uh it sharpen this edge on me where okay if if you think everything's handed to me like I'm gonna I want to be the most self-sufficient I want to be the most sufficient person of anyone I know. And we were talking today when you are a hunter,

you are a part-time mechanic, a part-time butcher, a part-time marksman, a part-time data analyst. Like, I mean, you're a cartographer. You literally have to be able to do. Very capable. Part-time biologists. Yeah. You have to have such a rounded out skill set to be a successful hunter. And that's what, that's what drew me to it is, I don't give a shit, how much money you have. When you go out there hunting and you're on a 15-day backcountry hunt in the middle of a wilderness. Like money doesn't come into it. Like nothing comes into it. I don't care who your family is, who you are or anything. You're either going to be able to do it or you're not. Right. Right. You're either going to be able to overcome the mental demons when you're halfway

across the river. And if you want to go home, it's just as far as going the rest of the way in. It's like those mental checkpoints is when you find out who you really are. And being self-sufficient in that is where a lot of my drive competitive, like I said. So, you know, I want to, I want to to go do one of the hardest things I can think of, which is kill a bull 15 miles in the back country in the wilderness, you know, with a bow. And that's where that's where a lot of the motivation comes from there. And I agree with you fully. We should be, us, we all should be celebrated for being that self-sufficient and not look down upon as, you know, some redneck going out there and killing something. Yeah. Which is thrown around a lot.

Yeah. I mean, I do, I try to celebrate other hunters no matter what they kill. I try to be, do whatever, but also I do realize most my followers are non-hunters. You know, if my, I might in a month at a peak, my page reaches 40 million people. Okay, there's not 40 million hunters. You know what I mean? So I got to think that, okay, I can't just, the grip and grins are great.

Obviously, I got them all over here. You know, nobody offended in here, but I understand who's looking at my page. And so somebody who doesn't understand hunting looks at a grip and grin. It's going to be interpreted differently. You know, we're smiling with the dead animal. So I sometimes don't even ever put up a grip and grin.

I put up truly what's the most important part of the hunt, which is all of it. The journey. The journey. You know, just try to share different aspects of it. Yeah, I try to kill an animal because that's what we do. You know, that's, but that's not everything. Yeah. That's just a small part of it.

but we're so used to only having one chance, like at the Boerack, we should just go put a kill shot up on the board. We don't get a chance to tell a story. So you just put your fucking kill shot on the board. And so that's kind of what we started doing with social media because that's what we were used to. We didn't, we just had a bragboard. That's it.

So now I'm just like, no, I've got to do a better job of explaining this lifestyle and explaining why it's important and explaining why it's powerful to me. And if we do that, I mean, I think he can make a big impact. I agree on non-hunter you know the antis are never going to get it the non-hunters that's they can understand you know and uh um yeah i think by doing it right man we have a big opportunity with you know social media gets shit on you know hunter as influencers get shit on all the time and it's like fuck i don't know i think this could be a good thing you know of course you can always use social media for for shitty stupid reasons but that's not us that's not what we're going to do

do. No. And the grip and grins and all that stuff, like we've, we've talked about it on the podcast. There was, there was a time there in hunting where like hunters were shying away from grip and grins and all that. And I almost looked at it as being defensive towards the antis. Like, why are we going to give them that? Yeah. Why are we going to give them that? You know what I mean? Like we are, I am proud of. Yes. I am proud of this accomplishment. Now, I'm a fan of the grip and grins, but like you're saying, telling the story. So what social media allows. us to do that the bragboards didn't allow is tell the story. Yeah. So Brady, Trail, Omar, all these guys are very well written and very well spoken.

And hunting, when they talk about hunting, even if it's in a story post or whatever it is, they're so good with words that people can feel their passion for it and their respect for it and all of that stuff. And I think that's the hugely important part of social media is that part of it is sharing the passion, the story, the struggles, all of it. why that picture is a grip. What it means. Yeah. Why are you smiling with that? Yeah.

Well, here's the story. Why, right? And I think it's important that, you know, hunting, hunting, it's not, you know, we're not sports betting. We're not, we're not playing golf posting a picture of our scorecard. Like, those things are so simple and so, like, passive and simple. Nothing's dying. Exactly.

And so, you know, the one thing that I, the one thing that I will give. on that hunting side of grip and grins and all that stuff is we do have to carry a level of responsibility further than most other activities because they're at the end of the day a life is being taken and we have to explain why it was taken and what we're using it for right it doesn't have to be as well spoken as Brady Trail or Omar but there at least there at least needs to be a reflection of this is why and this is how it's being used and it can be as simple as that And that is one thing that I do agree with going forward that hunters can continue to do a better job up

is fucking post the grip and grin, post the shit out of them. I love it. I love the success pictures, all that stuff. But we do carry a weight of responsibility because of what our lifestyle is. It's a lot deeper than being a golfer. Yeah. Being a sports better.

Like there's things going on that are just deeper and we just be responsible about it. I mean, I hate even calling hunting a sport. I hate it too. It's to me it's a lifestyle It's That's what the anti say is bloodsports Yeah

It's total bullshit I you know I remember Ben O'Brien Wrote this article years ago About grip and grins And he was saying you know We shouldn't do it And I was just like no fuck that

Yeah We shouldn't do it I'm put I've tweaked my A little bit But I totally respect What you're saying I was like

I had this attitude It was like I don't give a fuck With these guys think You know So but then I think it's because I don't know. I don't know if it's because my page was getting to so many and I was getting so many

people who didn't get it. And I'm just like, God, am I dying on this hill? Is this worth it? Can I still talk about why I love hunting? Do I have to show that? I didn't have to. But I was just like, I was just like, no, I'm going to do what the fuck I want. And so it's my perspective, I can go either way because I you know I've even there's some up right now but there's times when I'm like gosh I put this up should I not maybe I should just explain it better maybe because it's to me the it is the whole fucking experience it's not just that I killed that animal so I'm like I'm always wrestling with it but I'm always at the end of the day no matter what you do to your point no matter what I do as long as we're being true to explaining why it's important and why it's necessary and why it's

so empowering, people can judge that all they want. Exactly. You can judge me for that, for my, how I feel about it, that's fine. I'm a hunter, something's gonna die when I'm successful, that's just the way it goes. So yeah, it's a complicated one. But I think, I just think that as long as we're putting context

to it and really putting thought into what we're sharing, I think we're good. I agree. And that's, I'm a, I'm a high-flying offensive kind of guy. I like the Western spread offense. I love it. And so I like, I like being on the offensive. I think that's how you can win, right?

Like sports have used to be defenses win championships. And now it's all about offenses, right? With a defense that can somewhat hold some points down. But that's, I'm all four posting them and sharing our pridefulness. I just, I don't want anybody to lose the, you know, just completely go off the fuck at rails and I'm just posting it and that's it. That's why I make the point of just that carrying the responsibility of just a little bit of context. And there's a big difference between, say like this one with me and Roy, no blood, smiling or whatever, and somebody sitting in the back of the truck after they made a head shot or something or the, remember the guys used to cut the throat,

tongue hanging out, holding a beer. Okay. So is that a kill shot? Yeah. Is that different than that? Yeah. Yeah. It is.

There's different type of grip and grins. Absolutely. And that's that responsibility I'm talking about where we're not posting in a golf scorecard. Right. Like this is a lot deeper than that. So there's just that deeper level of responsibility with Gary. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I get it. I love having the discussion for sure. Me too. Because, you know, we've definitely our passion and have thought about it a lot. And, you know, that's all you can do. I mean, we're being reflective. We're being, you know, thinking about what's important and how to protect hunting. and that's that's a great discussion yeah it's a great discussion um great yeah so i mean today

what did you what was your takeaway from the event today i mean i i don't want to keep you we've been having we've had a long day i got i got all night for you um but tell give me your takeaway from today i'm hugely grateful that you know guys like you are putting a community together to do these types of things for these um i mean some of them were hunters but a lot of them are pretty new to hunting and especially Western hunting, putting some FaceTime in with guys like that. I mean, I look at it just as much as a of a focus group, like trying to just learn from them. I want to understand what they're, the questions they're asking, where they're coming from their perspective.

They're a snapshot of society. Exactly. So we need to learn from these people because it translates. Exactly. I think it's hugely important. I see the power in it at face value, just watching it today and watching people light up when they learn something or do something right or make a good arrow shot. I think today was important.

I got a gut check in the in the workout part of it though. I don't do cardio and weights together very often. So I got a gut check there. I learned that one. That's all good. You're in shape. And then no, I thought it was really good in the classes being put together for, and they're really seminars, right?

It's a lot more than just a class. There's no research. are just being trying to help them skip a few lily pads. And those were hugely important for us to listening to the questions that they were asking from their perspective. Just like you said, it's a reflection of the greater group of where these guys are coming from. And I honestly find it hugely motivating that there are people out there willing to take

the step to get better, put themselves out there. Like a lot of these guys are out here just by themselves, no friends, no nothing. They just came out here and met a bunch of different people. I know. And all connecting. not all connecting, right? Yeah. I think it's hugely important.

And I love the community aspect of the industry. We're all cut from the same cloth. Somebody who's willing to put themselves through what a hunt is, the full value of what a hunt is. Like we're going to be able to connect with guys like that. Those are the ones that are really trying, you know, you're never more vulnerable than hunting. Yeah.

And guys like that, like building a group around all like-minded. It was awesome. It was really cool. And putting yourself out for a new experience. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's, it can be intimidating. You're a whole group of people watching you shoot. Yeah.

You know, it's, but what I loved is like there's a couple guys from Colorado. We had dinner, you know, I saw you guys having dinner over there, but the guy sitting at my table. They said, they paid to come. They said, could we come next year and volunteer? It's awesome. I mean, they just want to be part of, part of the experience. And that, to me, tells me a lot. that it's special it is it's it's unique um like i said i'm a byproduct of this community of

being around wayne and roy and true leaders and people who i've learned from and made me better because i've i've been a piece of shit but these these guys elevate me and uh it's yeah i mean and then you nick and eric another guys are studs yeah they would been through so much and you'd think they were like they think you know they can came from your family. You know what I mean? Just like all the advantages in the world and they had nothing. And it's just like you're looking at them going, why the fuck are you so happy? Yeah. And that's just they're genuinely happy guys. Their spirit is so pure. And yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm just, I'm just lucky. So it's it means a lot to be able to share, I guess, my fortune with others by

introducing them to this group of men. And yeah. And I saw it today. They, they feel it. It was awesome. It was really cool. It was great. It was great that, you know, Brady and Trail came last year and that was huge. I loved it. I loved the support. I love the partnership that we've created with GoHunt. And I just hope we can continue to kick ass and make a positive difference. I agree. And fighting for what we love. I agree. And those, like you said, the fact that the majority of your reach is to that demographic and majority non-hunters, that's exactly the people we need to. talk to. Yeah. A brand like us specifically, and all hunters as a whole, but, you know, I take pride in putting our brand in front of people like that so they can understand what hunting is and what it's there for, right? Like that's what we, that's what our data explains. That's what our product explains. That's, that's who we are. I want to talk about your films because you do your, you have a YouTube channel, right? And you put, create these hunting films. How are they doing? And what, what percentage of your business is telling the story of a hunt and film yeah so you know when you're when

you're starting a business from scratch right there's not a lot of income to be throwing marketing dollars around right and so we were primarily bootstrapped from the beginning of build and go hunt and one of the really easy ways to market ourselves was to film our hunts we were going hunting anyways yeah and we were explaining we were showing these experiences that our product allowed us to do that's where that's where it all started and you know another benefit of my background is production and and and film quality and all that stuff i've always been engaged with i'm a huge consumer of content i i am a young enough age that i live on youtube for the most part youtube university or just

entertainment as a whole and you know we figured look we we can show people we can talk about these experiences all we want but if we show people like it's a lot lot more impactful. And so, you know, we found some really good cameramen and editors and developed some really good relationships there and started filming our hunts. And we started doing it in a way, you know, not to sound egotistical by any means, but I think we kind of changed the, we kind of changed the trajectory of hunt films. We pushed them a little further and had some higher quality to them. More like surf film type or Red Bull kind of type, right? Not to not at all to say that we are comparable, but we were kind of on the same threat of them as taking,

hunting away from like the outdoor channel type hunts. Yeah. More on these aspirational, you know, survivor-ish type hunts, right? Like the struggles and how it is being in the backcountry. And we've just developed those through the years and they've done extremely well for us. There are number one, it's free marketing. It's our own YouTube channel, right? Which is a beautiful thing.

It's our number one conversion model for people landing on our brand is our hump film. right so we we do very good on viewership and um you know i'm very proud to say i think they inspire a lot of people and it seems to be true because they come to our landing page of our product from those films more often than anything else whether it be paid marketing or or anything else um and the beautiful thing about it is it's something that i love to do i got two boys um i've done a film with my oldest boy already and to have those for them in the the future to have those for myself in the future. Like I, I love, I really do love doing it. It's history too. Your family history. Exactly. And it's not, I really don't like being on camera

or putting myself out there. So it's kind of one of those things that I have to kind of get myself over to then go like be vulnerable in the backcountry on film. But I'm always grateful when I come home and like, man, thank God that was that was on film. So it's, it's, you know, fulfilling selfishly at the same time as it fulfills the business as well. And it's something we love doing because all of us, you know, we have it for forever after it's filmed. And it works. It works really well for the business too.

Yeah. Well, yeah, I know you guys put in a lot of effort and a lot of time into that. And I know it can be a powerful medium for sure. And then your podcast, Big Hunt Guys, it's, how's that going? And I mean, I listen to it. I listen to Trails podcast too. I don't know. Brady, do you have a podcast?

He's about to. Come on, dude. I would listen to him if he had one. I don't know about Omar, what are you going to talk about? How to be 26 and not do anything fun. 27. 27. Sorry.

Yeah, same age of my son as my youngest son. But yeah, so how's a podcast going? Podcast is really good. And when we hired Brady, I tried to tell Brady like podcasts are going to be a big thing and he needs to start one. Yeah. No, that's actually in his interview in 2014. And he told me and Chris Porter, he's like, look, I'm telling you podcasts are going to be huge.

And I did not listen. And I didn't listen for a very long time. We were very late to the game. He told Joe Rogan to start a podcast. I heard. No, he told us and he swore by it. And one of the biggest mistakes I've made with Go Hunt so far was not taking that advice. He definitely saw the vision.

And it took us a while to get around to it. But once we started it, it took off. and we're one of the leading podcasts in hunting, which is awesome and very proud of that. And we really, we really focus on, you know, the hunters are really good at bullshitting. Yeah. But they also, there's also,

also needs to be some value within the conversation we're having. And I think Meitrail and Brady do a really good job of that campfire bullshit catching up with each other. And then also like really providing some, some great hunting context within the podcast. itself and it's been doing extremely well and you know ironically enough that's our number two conversion channel is our is our podcast so uh i should have listened to brady in 2014 we would have been a lot further ahead but hey better late than never and you know it's it's working it i enjoy podcasts

too because it's that campfire talk between hunters yeah it's easy for us to talk i can talk about hunting all day long you want me to talk about something else i glaze over pretty quick and yeah just go by the wayside yeah hunters are generally great storytellers. And I remember Wayne was on here and we talked for like two hours and 40 minutes or something. And he's just like, how did we talk so long? I'm like, excuse me? I go, you do this shit every day all day at the shop.

I mean, he can talk. But it's not just him as hunters. We have a lot we want to share. We have a lot. A lot of times we're out there by ourselves and we come back and we've got stories. And I always tell, I tell my boys, what's your story? You got a story for me? Yeah.

Because most people are living their lives and they're like, what the fuck did, what they went to Hawaii? That's not a story. They went to a new lunch spot today that they never tried. Tell me an adventure. Tell me something cool that happened. What's your story? So hunters are good at living life to the fullest and then bringing back stories. Completely agree.

And so I have a hard time finding good hunting podcast because I don't know if the best storytellers don't have a podcast yet, but man, I try it. I love a good hunting podcast, but it can be, it's slim picking sometimes. Yeah, it is. It is. So you guys do a great. Hunters get caught in the details a lot too. I think, I don't know what it is.

Yeah, we get caught in a lot of like not needed story. Like as far as a story goes, not needed details. And us three, because we're, we're so comfortable with each other. We're, I think we're pretty good at just like, you know, just talking about the good bullshit and not all the details and getting lost in it. Yeah, I think that helps, but I enjoy what you guys are doing. I'm glad you're successful. I'm glad you're kicking ass.

I just know you're going to have even a brighter future, and we're going to hopefully make even more of an impact on the future of hunting. So, I mean, I applaud your efforts. I applaud your vision and breaking away from the family and starting your own legacy and you're kicking ass, and you deserve a lot of respect and you get it from me. Hugely appreciate that, you know, like that. not to be too vulnerable, but that's like, that's my, the biggest compliment I can get in my life is like, oh, I never would have known, you know, you are doing your own thing. That's, you know,

everyone's got their own thing that they're trying to get ahead on or, you know, and that's, that's what it is. So thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you. And that's it. Keep hammering. Maybe we'll go to the track meet tomorrow. Yeah, perfect. And I won't run. Okay. See you guys.