Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 094 - Joe Rogan & Adam Greentree

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

Join Cam, Joe Rogan and Adam Greentree for a discussion about their recent elk hunt in Utah, how bowhunting has impacted Joe and Adam’s life and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Joe Rogan: https://www.instagram.com/joerogan/  Follow Adam Greentree: https://www.instagram.com/adam.greentree/    Thank you to our sponsors: GoHunt: https://gohunt.com/ use code CAM when you sign up for $50 towards the gear shop + 10% off the GoHunt store Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Ketone IQ: HVMN.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Timestamps: 0:00:00 Adam’s 2024 Utah Bull & Previous Hunts with Joe, Cam & Adam 0:08:05 The Dream in Elk Hunting 0:16:03 “Find Another Trailhead Stupid” 0:21:43 The Brotherhood of Hunting 0:23:29 Wild Elk Country - “Must Be Nice” 0:26:43 Joe’s Preparation for Elk Hunting 0:29:09 Ad Break 0:31:00 Where Joe’s Obsession with Elk Hunting Came From 0:36:47 Vegetarian to Hunting for Life 0:43:09 Bowhunting VS Rifle Hunting 0:52:08 How Bowhunting Has Impacted Adam’s Life 0:54:15 Cam’s Utah Bull 01:01:51 Joe’s Utah Bull 01:09:31 Shot IQ Program: “Open-Loop & Closed-Loop” Thinking   01:16:52 Keeping Calm While Elk Are Close 01:21:34 Weather: There Are No Guarantees 01:23:29 Expandable VS Fixed Blade Arrowheads  01:40:19 Adam’s Preferred Bowhunting Equipment 01:45:35 Cam’s Bow Setup 01:48:34 Expandable Broadheads with Tougher Animals 01:52:30 Hoyt’s Bow Technology - Quieter Than Ever 01:54:43 Meat Processing & the Constant Improvement of Equipment 01:56:29 Cam’s Cardio & Mentality Advantage 02:02:36 Garmin Rangefinder Sight 02:09:43 Bow Equipment - Continued 02:13:17 Outro

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move is so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right, this is the Keep Hamry Collective, special edition from the road with Joe Rogan. I don't know, some of you may have heard of them, and Adam Green Tree from down on da.

Every on the ice gear. They are wards. And we're in Elf Camp in Utah. Northern Utah, and what a crazy few days we've had. Perfect week? It's been, yeah, I was saying earlier that if you had a scripted before the hunt, the perfect hunt for us, just us three, there's more people here hunting, but just for us three, we would have scripted, if we would have read the script,

we said, I would take that. That sounds like a dream trip. Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. Yeah, you'd be like, yeah, that would be a dream. We'd just leave the dream. Let's start off at the beginning. Okay. Adam says, I'm going to hold out.

I don't, you know, I want this hunt to last. And he should, he shoots and now, like, at the first hour. Yeah. How long were you hunting for? He said it's going to be a couple days for sure. Yeah, for sure, mate. I'm keen on this hunt. He's killed a couple 350 bowls, which are big.

And so, yeah, I was thinking, I heard something on the radio at the first evening. And I'm like, Adam killed. Yeah, what was that? A different out of them. A different out of them. from an Australian out stand up in the mountains. Well, that holding out didn't last too long. It lasted in an hour.

It's such an amazing place that I already got to look through bulls. It was about two and a half hours of hunting, and we already looked over maybe eight bulls. Wow. And he was the only bull that we could hear that was in a herd, but he sounded like hates deeper and grunty and just, I don't know, you can't tell him like that, right? Yeah.

But he did sound more mature. and at least that's where my mind ran to. And then the old cow down there talking as well. So he sort of, yeah, that sort of gave it away. Okay, there's a herd bull. This was just all the satellites that were looking around and calling up to us that were around him. And I actually said to you, like, you know,

how you just get caught in the moment. It's like, no, I'm learning on the shoot something. If it's like, you know, the last of the hunt, that's the biggest animal you've seen. And it's like, but then sometimes you just get caught in the moment. Yeah. And why wouldn't you try and shoot something if you're caught in that moment?

Because they're all the feelings that were all chasing. Oh, so it was an awesome bull. Oh, yeah. How could you pass up on that ball? Imagine a mature bull, 10 years old or 11 years old. I mean, it was a herd bull, dark horn, heavy. Yeah.

I mean, it's a trophy for anybody. So first we tried to call it. So I got to experience that and other bulls coming in around it and stuff like that. Then he wouldn't leave the herd. So then I got the stalker. and then I couldn't get any closer because the cows were above me. So then I got to ambush it when his cows eventually came past.

So it's like I got to do all the cool hunts and then. Yeah, perfect shot. Yeah. And to see it go down on film, I know you put up a clip of that on your Instagram, and it just shows how lethal an arrow can be because really the bull didn't know what happened. Yeah.

The cows were running by. He maybe thought he got jabbed by another bull potentially. You know, their physical, aggressive animals. this as aggressive time of year. And I always think that his blood pressure drops from the, from the hemorrhine, and basically he's passing out and dies. And it looked like the perfect, merciful death that we're all seeking as both hunters. Yes, how I see.

It was absolutely beautiful, you know. It's like, yeah, that's what we all strive for and actually have that happen right in front of out. It was incredible. And then I was already like, this would be so cool because now I've got time to, like, hang out of you and hang out with Joe and you know you guys hunting and stuff like that and just do the whole camp thing obviously usually solo hunting and you know I don't sort of have that friendship to sort of enjoying camp and stuff like that so no regrets so many laughs we had so much fun yeah it was such a fun week yeah it's this has been um the first time you've hunted with adam right um

but we hunted the nine oh and lanai well was that the first oh yeah it's right Alberta and and I. We all were in a lot. Yeah, this dude that I had no idea who he was, hopped off the plane, he missed his first flight, and then he hopped off from like, yeah, good one, buddy, the maker's late. And Joe didn't know who I was, so he was just like, just kept walking past me. Yeah. And then, yeah, no, that was cool.

Now we're besties. I'm very glad I crossed paths with you, brother. Me too. Yeah, this has been incredible. And we've hunted Buffalo together in Australia before, of course, been in Bear Camp together. now that you reminded me, Lanai, we all killed bucks there.

Buffalo Hood twice together. Linai was the dream team. No, that was incredible. We had Remy Warren, Shane Dorian, Cameron Haynes, who else was there? John Dudley.

Who else? Ben O'Brien. Who else? You, me. And that's it. There was that big group shot. Oh, it's an amazing shot. and shot trying to think I don't want to.

There was a guy called Will there as well. Maybe Will? Will? Yeah. He didn't kill, so we kicked him out of the drone tank. He didn't make the cut? Didn't Sam Soholt take the picture? That's right.

Sam Solalt was there too. Yeah, but he's a good guy. He's awesome. I love Sam. That's right. Heaps better. And then we had that podcast from Paradise. Yeah, we did.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, we did a podcast from Paradise in my whole tell room. Yeah. Did I? No, no. You didn't miss that. You weren't in that one? No. Ah, you didn't go in that.

That's right. It was Dudley, Sam, you, me, and Remy, right? I kind of know. I was, I don't remember. We got hammered. We came up with that cat lady drink. You guys said you're going to bed. And we started pouring everything in the glasses.

And we came up with a drink called the cat lady. Do you want a part of that one? Okay. Well, I have heard of the cat. so it must have been pretty good. You probably weren't in the podcast during that time. I think you were Honey with Kimmy. That's what I was going.

Oh, yeah. I think that's what was going. I think we took a drink. Did you know this? That's right. I know he doesn't drink. I don't forget about that. Yeah.

Coffee. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I get cake and I blend it down. Just drink cake. The first time I met Adam, I think he was the first time. And I don't know, did Underhammer help set that ever, Hoyt? I think Hoyt set that out. Okay.

Yeah. So he was standing in the airport, I think, in Sydney, with a sign that said, that Cam Haynes with a buffalo drawn on it. Like, you know, how they have like, you're getting a car. Yeah, you're getting a reader. Yeah, yeah, so that, and he had his mouth on.

Yeah, that was, that was pretty epic. I remember the mindful, though. I remember the sign because I still have the picture. It was sitting. Oh, sweet. Yeah, but, yeah, this has been, and I don't really know how you ended up here because we were trying to get this set up,

and, you know, it's hard to hunt this place. I know how I ended up here. Both he has felt really sorry for me last year. I know, I know how. Because Rick Wood, Rick Wood had an extra tag. And so Rick Wood texts me, he says, do you know anybody who wants a hunt? Oh, thank you. And I said, oh, yeah, I got a guy named Adam Green Tree from Australia that goes in these bullshit hunts.

He gets bald by grizzly bears and hangs out in the woods for a month. But a couple of months prior, we were trying to get him in and they were full. Exactly. Right? Yeah. So when Rick said that he had an opening, called Adam. We hooked it up. Well, I appreciate it like you'll probably never understand. Oh, my. I seriously do. It's perfect. Yeah. So tell me, now you've experienced this. You've experienced the grinded out 32 days on public land. Did you see one elk?

I seen one elk and I got it killed. And then I felt bad because it does at that point. When you've gone that long and you see one bull and then you kill it, that doesn't seem like conservation hunting them. Right. I'm not saying there's not a thousand more out there. I'm sure there is. But it sort of doesn't feel right at that point. You know, and Kimmy left camp on day 13.

She was grinding it out too. And she was the same. She's like, actually, I won't feel right in shooting an elk in here because we're not seeing any. You know what it's like? And yeah. So, but to come. here and see big healthy populations. You know, my experience in doing that backcountry stuff, the experience is just testing.

But it's not the, you don't get all the highlights of like hearing bulls bugle and like, I heard antlers clashing on that first afternoon. There was bulls bugle and you could hear them like running down for the forest like the herd bull chasing off the satellites coming up, getting the cold bulls in. It's just like, I've missed all that, you know. And I've actually forgotten how good that side of things is, you know. And it is nice grinding it out. Like you're the veteran of it, right?

You know, so you know that part of grinding it out. But it's just, it's getting harder and harder. And now that there's less and less over the counter, it's even harder again. So like Colorado last year is one of the only states I had over the counter. So it was just jam pack of hunters, you know. It seemed like when I first started at L. hunting you just hiked six, seven miles back and you're away from the crowds. And one place last year, I was 20-something miles back and thinking I've got this part of the rigline to myself.

And there's two other tents set up right on the ridge line and I'm bumping in the hunters all the way. Whoa. So it's like elk hunting's hard enough without from that in, right? Yeah, that's. And yeah, now that I've experienced this, like, yeah, like I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone and I've already proved to myself that grind-in-out bit so it this has wrecked me like it's like I don't think I can go back to that thing. Nice. It's a yeah I get the test. I get the proving because you've done it.

I've done it but that's the only choice I had. So it was like I didn't have money to do anything. So I just like was trying to make the best of what in Oregon isn't known for being great out hunting. Right. That's where I lived. And just like you, I never had to hunt 32 straight days. I think it was, I went six days without seeing an elk before, though, and wondered what I was doing and they killed a bowl on the seventh day.

So it's similar. And the accomplishment feels amazing. But when you've done it and then you have other options because you've worked harder in life, like how Joe's sacrifice in other areas of his life, he doesn't have to sacrifice on shitty. Elbel band hunting. You know, if you have other options, that's what you do. We just didn't, I didn't have another option personally. But I get the testing. I get all that.

I get the challenge. But what are we here for to hunt elk? Yeah. You know, I mean, to see elk and this is managed like it'd be amazing a public land could be managed like this. It would be limiting too many tags. And you mentioned Colorado. I want to talk about this because I feel like Colorado went after.

making money and put that above hunter because we're getting all this non-resident tag sales which are expensive you know for a non-resident and they're overselling jamming people in there probably over-harvesting if the truth is known and so who wins in that situation no i guess fishing game got more money but the hunters don't win the elk don't win so they've corrected that i think next year now non-resident is draw it's not over the count which is good because I think the residents of the state should have an advantage and have more opportunities over non-residents personally you know I mean you there has to be some benefit to live in yeah definitely so I would you know a long-winded answer to say I my dream would be for

everybody to have quality L cutting my dream would be for everybody experienced something like we've experienced here is that possible I don't know but we've lived the dream this week that's all I know and it would be incredible if other people could experience something similar. Yeah, you can't run around in life hoping everybody gets the same thing. That's literally communism. It's like a quality of outcome. Yeah. It doesn't exist. You can get and do the best things that you can do with whatever circumstances you have. And if you don't have the ability to come to a place like this. You know, there's places you can go that are really good,

but there's no place that you're going to go that's like this because these people spend a lot of money to make it like this. That's why the tags are expensive. Ultimately, though, what you're getting is wild animals that aren't perturbed by humans. And the problem, like, anybody that can hunt like you do and do a public land hunt for 32 days

and finally kill an elk has every hunter's respect. It's an incredible accomplishment. But the reason why that exists like that is because of overhunting and pressure. Wild animals are supposed to be wild. They're supposed to not be thinking about people. It's not supposed to be like constantly scared of bugling

because they hear fake bugles everywhere and seeing tents everywhere and people don't know what they're doing, and getting winded. it's this is like the dream right to be able to come to a place like this not everybody's going to get the dream yeah you just don't appreciate what we can yes well we we've done and it's so you could go so far as to say not everybody could have 32 days to hunt like you this so it's like is that fair to people only have a week so what are you supposed to do only hunt a week

because a lot of people only have weekend yes because certain people couldn't dedicate that much life is not fair. We're in different positions in our life because of choices we've made. And when it comes to hunting, I agree with Joe is like, these elk are acting natural. They're acting like wild elk are designed to act, you know, not being pressured by humans all the time. So, yeah, it's just a privilege to be able to, like I said,

I wish everybody could, but that's just not real. Well, the thing is, like you always feel like you have to defend it against people that are upset that they can't do. it. Yeah. That's your t-shirt. Yes, it must be nice. It must be nice, yeah. That's really what it is. That's the, with the conversation we're having right now, the reason why we're having it this way, instead of just celebrating how awesome the hunt it is, is because not everybody gets to do this. But not everybody gets to drive that truck you drove here.

Not everybody gets to have a job like you have. Not everybody, not everybody runs 300-mile races. You know, it's like there's not a quality of effort in this world either. Right. And everybody, you know, the idea of a quality of outcome is really, you know, ridiculous because we don't have a quality of effort. And some people, they just excel. They, like, they go further. They push harder. They make more things happen in their life. And because of that opportunities open up that don't open up for everybody. And that's unfortunate for you, if that's not opening up for you. But that's just the way the world works. And you should strive to one day be able to do that. That's it. I want to talk about something. We got beat up for

a statement that we made. I don't even know if we were serious or whatever. But do you remember that find another trailhead stupid? Yeah. Oh, that's what people are on in my gosh. I know. I don't know what the reference is. I missed it. We're just being funny.

We're kind of being funny. Kind of, but also go to a place where there aren't everybody. When I, everybody knows, I hunted the wilderness in Oregon. That's what I was known for. I wrote a book on backcountry bow hunting, which still sells. It's Whatever, it's just the tactics that I use to get away from people.

If I went to a trailhead in the wilderness and it was jam-packed with cars and horse trailers, and I was just like, I'm not going here. It feels to me like that would be stupid to go where a million other people were. So all Joe said, like, in jest, if you get there, find another trailhead, stupid. It's not. That was me last year. And now all jammed. Yeah.

And it is so disheartening. So that, and that's the point, because people are disheartened because of everybody wants to be an Elkunter. I get it. Everybody and tags were unlimited there. I mean, or non-resident tags as far as I know. So yeah, it was probably super frustrating. And I'm not trying to discount that because I know when that's the only option I had, that was my life. How do I get away from people?

And if I couldn't, it killed me. So we're not dismissing how that feels. how that that sucks you know that wasn't what the comment was finding a trailhead stupid it was just like that's what I did when I went I would try to find how do I get away from people

yeah also it's called talking shit yeah exactly you're talking shit you're like find our trail that stupid it's talking shit yeah that's what it is it's like you say things it's like do you really mean that well it's unfortunate if you go to a place there's a bunch of hunters but you know what's worse when there's no one hunting because you can't hunt

because they've changed the laws because there weren't enough hunters to vote. Right. And California is on its way to being that. You know, like, people are upset that because you've become very popular and you've become popular on social media and because of my podcast, I talk about elk hunting. More people want to elk hunting.

Guess what? That is way better than less people doing it. To have too many people that are on your side and understand what you, love to do and too many people that are trying it to have too many of that is a good thing. It might not be a good thing for the weekend that you chose to go to a particular place because there's a lot of people going there. But the last thing you want is no one else hunting.

That is the last thing you want because try explaining to even people who eat meat who've never considered hunting that you love hunting. And they look at you sideways like you're some kind of monster because they've been indoctrinated by movies and cartoons. Like in movies, the hunters are always the assholes. Like in the movie Wolverine, the hunters are the assholes and Wolverine kicks their ass. Right? Like that's the stereotypical.

So the only way to combat that is to have more people understand hunting. The only way to have more people understand hunting is two things. One, podcasts where people talk about hunting, especially ones like mine that cater to a lot of different subjects. And then more people hunted. Yeah. Those are the only ways. More people understand.

What you've done is you've educated a lot of non-hunters on why hunting is a lifestyle that people enjoy and why it's important and why, you know, what you get out of it. And the rewards from hunting, they might never hunt, but now they're understanding a different aspect of hunting. Exactly. Different from what they're seeing in Hollywood, where the hunters are the redneck retards. Right. Exactly.

I think somebody, they raped a girl and maybe that movie or tried to. or something like that. So that's the hunting image that Hollywood tries to get out. You're offsetting that with having discussions like this. And it's like, well, maybe hunters aren't all dipshits. Also, when we show the food we're cooking.

Right. Like when we cooked up Adam's backstrapes tonight. Yeah. Sensational. Trager brought us over in ironwood. Thanks, Trigger. Thank you. They hooked us up.

And we cooked it. It took about an hour and a half, nice and slow. And then we seared in a cast iron pan and had to clear the whole building out because the vet sucks. Yeah. But man, was it good?

Oh, my God. Oh, so good. Oh, so good. So delicious. But also, like, so satisfying. Like, you shot that elk two days ago with your bow. And here we are all enjoying it. We're all eating it.

And it's the finest protein that's available to human beings. I feel better already. I mean, we ate elk pretty much all day, it seems like. Bro, I started eating, and I'm like, I feel energized. Like, almost immediately. It's incredible. It's just so filled with. vitamins and protein.

Your body like immediately is like, oh yeah, more of this. I think when you show everything else in Bowenning as well, you know, like so when there was just magazines, you just pick up a magazine, it was just kill shot, kill shot, kill shot. So anyone's seeing that that's on the outside. Just think that's what it is. But then

you know, obviously you show a much clearer picture and you do too because it's so documented and I try and do the best that I can where you show everything else. And I think a lot of respect comes from the public when you show that. they can see that it's just not killed. It's just not, there's large diversity.

There's so much more to it. There's so much more to the point that it's your life. Yeah. You know. And I think one part of this trip that I know we're, you know, we got some great photos and video from this home, but one part that I really enjoyed is, yes, we're shooting arrows out here getting ready.

We all three made great kill shots, you know, merciful kills on these animals. But then also the processing the bulls of packing, the bulls out of the mounds and in all of it yeah like every aspect of that we all were involved and enjoyed you know and it's it's work yeah these are you know you can say whatever you want about hunting a place like this these mountains are real you know it's um it's a grind out there it's steep it's thank god you guys were there to help me pack out because where we shot that elk was the steepest yeah it was that was ridiculous what a great photo that is that you put on your

Instagram. Yeah. Today. All of us packing out. Oh, incredible. So, I mean,

I could see, and I've said this before. I mean, if I wasn't me, I'd probably hate me. You know what I mean? Because I would look at that picture and there's FOMO a little bit

because you're looking at that and you're like, motherfucker, these guys are killing bulls. They're working hard together. They're enjoying the fruits of their labor. They're, you know, there's something about sacrificing with other men that it just means so much.

And if I wasn't involved and I saw that, I would a little bit in my head go, I'm missing that. I wish I had that. You know, so I get it. But for us to be involved in it, it is so rewarding. And I don't know what that means. I don't know if we're trying to talk everybody into the experience in it. Not really, but just wanted to understand how powerful and what a brotherhood like solidified in something like this, how important it is. Yeah.

To me, it's everything. Yeah, and like, again, this kind of place is not a place everybody can experience, but there's a lot of things everybody can't do. It's just how the world works. Yeah. Unfortunately. But the way animals are supposed to exist is exactly how this place is. Like, this isn't a canned hunt. These are real wild animals and they're real mountains, and it's a real struggle.

There's big mountainous here. Yeah. There's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's low fence. It's not high fence. It's not whatever anybody wants to say. It's just very well managed. Yeah. And it's, they take.

And we still could have all gone home empty handed. Oh, well, a lot of guys. A lot of guys do. Yeah. A lot of guys too. I mean, we already know about that. This week. We've just lived the dream hunt right now.

Yeah. So, I mean, people might see this and say, oh, three for three, all great bowls. And like, is it easy? No, it's not fucking easy. We just had the perfect hunt But there's a lot of people Hunt the same country that don't take a bull home Yeah

Especially bow hunters Yeah like as you'd know Like you can grind it out in the back country And come across a rut Like a like just bull Beautiful and just go on Yeah You just need a herd bull in the herd there

You know and I have found that on In previous years But it's it's a lot to get to that Or a little bit of like luck Come in your way Yeah I've been in a rut fest like today before. I remember a specific time

is Spin Stone and the Eagle Cap and I had, it was bulls going crazy and they're so distracted because there is a herd bull and there's satellite bulls challenging and coming in, I have experienced something like this. It's rare but it happens, you know,

and like for my hunting journey is like to me I used to hunt elk close to my home, I could, you know, 20 miles. Then I went to the Eagle Cap which is eight hours away and that was a little bit better hunting. hard but a little better and then i was like well shit maybe i could hunt wyoming wyoming public land was like 10 times better in oregon so that's what people do they like

they keep working and getting to better opportunities that's how life works right you're like oh if i work a little harder maybe i could instead of drive eight hours to eastern oregon i could drive to wyoming pay put in a thousand dollars for a premium draw tag and if i get lucky then I could kill a bull on public land in Wyoming way better hunting and I did. I killed six by six, six by seven. So that's how life works. You sacrifice, you work, you grind it out

and you keep finding better and better opportunities. And now I feel like my whole life has been designed to find the best elk hunting in the world and that led me here. That led me to San Carlos. That led me to where I hunt Roosevelt in Oregon. I was supposed to apologize for that. And why wouldn't you?

That's been my dream. My whole fucking life. But again, we're only having the conversation this way because of criticism. Yeah. It's all, it must be nice. Yeah. It's all formal. And it is nice.

Yeah. It is really nice. Yeah. Work hard. Work hard. King ass. Go out there and make your dreams come true, kids. It's so not.

Hey, it is nice. So, um, tell me about your kill. So Adam said he experienced like all three aspects of, different tactics for El Cunning in one hunt. I think you're trying to justify killing that bull the first night, but that's okay. Tell me about your experience. Well, we got into this very, very, very, very steep canyon. And it takes like an hour to get to the top of this ridge. Shout out to Colton. Hayward. Colton is an animal. Yeah. He's an animal. And I trained for this. Like, I got ready for this. I did tons of cardio and body weight squats and box jumps. And I did

everything to get my legs ready because I knew we were going to do this. Like I was I count down the months like when when November rolls around I start thinking about December and then I started thinking about January February March April May June then June comes wrong like oh we're a couple months away July August and then when September rolls around like when I was doing my comedy special I was reluctant to do it because it was August 3rd and I was like I got to make sure I get my practice in Like, how am I got to get my practicing when I'm doing stand-up every night? Because I'm getting ready for my comedy special. I'm like, I've got to figure out of time to get up at the morning and shoot arrows every morning,

do all my cardio, do all this, do all that. You get ready for it. So it was a hustle. It was a real grind to make those miles through the mountains and up these crazy ridges to get to where we were. But we got into a wild rut fest. Were you prepared? Did you feel like you were prepared from all that work? Oh, yeah, yeah.

definitely. My legs were very strong. It was, you know, the cardio is crazy because it's like, no matter what you prepare for, you're not preparing, unless you live at 7,700 feet above sea level, you're not prepared for the altitude. The altitude is nuts. So, you know, you get winded. But my legs were strong. I was fit. I was ready. And I was shooting every day, hours every day. In the sun. In Texas, I'd take a 64-ounce jug of water and electrolytes and shoot in the sun at 105 degrees until my pants were soaked like it looks like I jumped in the pool and my shirt like my daughter like she's like what did you do because I was soaked with sweat she's like get away from me she was laughing at me because it looked like I fell in the pool

because I was just out in the sun all day I was doing it every day or are you thinking about what is that obsession that drives that is that to make the perfect shot on an elk or is it just a routine it's to make the perfect shot on an elk it's to be ready to to be able to get to where you have to be in time. If you hear something bugling at the top of the ridge, you have to be fit enough to get all the way up there while it's happening. And you have to be able to keep your head together

while you make the shot. You have to have confidence and you're shooting. You have to have shot so many times that it's just a routine in your head. You know what to do. And now, you know, since you first took me bow hunting when we went to the rivets in like, 2012 14 14 since then I've been obsessed just obsessed and I just think about it all the time

I mean all it when I'm not doing anything I'm just thinking about is that weird how from 2014 now you've been obsessed that's all you think about essentially I mean you mentioned you almost didn't want to you were worried about the number one TV program on Netflix that's what your comedy special was number one and you were worried that that was going to interfere with your bowling property. Isn't that crazy? That's crazy. So like, isn't that weird how before 2014,

what was the obsession in that, how did it, why, what did bowling change? Well, I've always been obsessed with things that make me nervous. I like things that make me, when I was young, I realized that if you can do things that everyone's scared of, you can excel because people are scared of these guys.

They get away from them. So if you gravitate towards things that people are scared of, first of all, you learn something about yourself, that you can, because I knew other people. Like it started out with martial arts, started out with fighting. I was terrified of fighting.

I learned how to fight because I didn't like getting picked on. I was like, this sucks. I don't like getting picked on. I have to learn how to defend myself. And then I said, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to become the person I'm terrified of. So I'll just become that person. So I became obsessed with fighting.

And the reason why I was obsessed with fighting is because it was so scary. It was so terrifying. But every time I did it and got better, I realized like, oh, I can do this with anything. And it gave me a path to accomplish things in life. Find something that's really difficult to do that most people shy away from. And you can excel in life. And I felt the same way about stand-up comedy. Everybody's terrified of going on stage and terrified of, you know, being rejected by audiences.

They're terrified of stage fright and the light on you and the moment. Ready, go. This live moment when you're in front of people. And that's terrifying. And I became obsessed with that. Just the thing of doing this thing that everybody's afraid of. And so I realized, like, I knew when I was young, like, I'm too ADHD or whatever the fuck it is. I can't have a regular job.

I don't have that brain. I can't just sit down and do things. I go crazy. Like, I'm just too wired. And so I realized, like, there's other paths in life that they didn't teach about in school. And my first path was martial arts. and then I really nobody teaches you hey you know you can become a martial arts champion like nobody says you know maybe that's what you should do like nobody says that right but and I realized like oh that's a path

there's not a queer topic right and so when I realized like that kind of gives your brain damage like it's probably not a good thing to do forever and then when I got into stand-up comedy I was like oh I can do this so I got obsessed with that and when I started doing stand-up comedy one of the things that was obsessed that obsessed me about it is that I wasn't good at it and I realized how hard it was to get good at and then I kept getting better and better and better and along the way I realized

like the same thing that I learned from martial arts that all you have to do is dedicate yourself to something and be honest with yourself about like what you're doing good and what you're doing bad and what you need to improve upon and how much work are you putting in to meet your goals and then I applied that to comedy

and then I applied that to bow hunting It's the same kind of thing. It's a vehicle for developing your human potential. And I feel like out of all the things that I've done that are exciting, bow hunting is the most exciting. And particularly bow hunting elk because there's something about the screams and the just the environment is so unforgiving and so challenging. And these animals are just majestic. I always think, like, if you were a person that had no idea that Elk Bugal and you were walking through the woods and you heard those noises, you'd be like, oh my God, there's demons out here. Like, what is that?

Like, what are those sounds? And they're just ferocious sounds. It's crazy. And it just makes your hair stand on end. It makes you tingle. It echoes through the canyons. And then there's these moments where you have an eye. opportunity and they're fleeting.

And it's like, I had to shoot through these two trees, you know? And it was like you have these moments where like the first time I came here with you when we did that Under Armour Hunt and it was filmed, I had to shoot through this little hole and I knew people were filming it. And I knew like this giant

herd bull, this huge herd bowl. And it was just perfect shot. And when I pulled it off, I was like, that's what all the hard work was for. This is what it's all about. It's all about maximizing that opportunity this one moment ready go the thing that scares everybody

like fucking up and choking and not being able to pull it off it's terrifying but it's also insanely rewarding and then when you get to eat it and then you just get to enjoy it I remember the first time Rinella took me hunting we hunted mule deer in the Missouri

breaks in the you know the in Montana in the Missouri River and I've never been hunting for anything And then we shot, I shot a mule deer And we did it all on television Same kind of deal, like high pressure

You know, I never even shot anything with a rifle I had shot like a couple of times Warming up for this like Rinella set up a target And you know, we just shot a couple of times Like, all right, you're good And they're like just like, let's go And you know, we're hiking to the mountains And I was in good shape luckily

So I was like, this is crazy how hard this is And then when we're eating it over the fire He was like, what do you think? I'm like, I'm doing this forever. You knew right that. Right away. I'm like, this is what I'm going to do. I got into hunting because I was thinking I was going to become a vegetarian.

I watched too many PETA films. I watched too many films on animal cruelty and factory farming. I was like, what am I eating? Like, this is horrible. And then I was, but I really like meat. I was a vegetarian for a little bit when I was a kid when I was fighting because I I fought most of my amateur career at 155 pounds, but for the first year when I was 17,

I fought, the first year I won the States. I fought at 140, and it was fucking brutal to make 140. It was so hard, and I was still growing, and I was just starving myself, like,

when I was up to, like, big tournaments to make weight, and I would be depleted. And I remember thinking, I can't, you know, it's such an, Unbelievable struggle to try to make that weight. And so I decided I was going to go up and wait. And then when I went up and weight, I had so much more energy and so much more enthusiasm. So did you, you became vegetarian to cut weight? Yeah. So I became a vegetarian when I was 17 for like six months. And just to try to make 140. And I was so tired. It's a great way to lose muscle. I lost everything. I lost my will. And then my instructor said, you know, you should just go up and wait.

And I gained 10 pounds in like a week. And then I became like the best version of myself. So then I went on a tear and won all these tournaments. And it was all because I started eating again. And I was eating meat like all the time, like mostly meat. I was eating constantly. I was eating mean. Because that's what like I realized in my head, that's what was holding me back.

Like, once I started eating meat, like I had so much more energy. And so then. When when I started watching these PETA films, I was like, what am I eating? This is terrible. Like, am I going to become a vegan? Am I going to become a vegetarian? I was like, okay, there's two options. Either I can kill animals myself and eat them, like wild animals, or I'll become a vegetarian.

And so that's why I decided to start hunting. And when Rinella took me, as soon as I shot that deer and we were eating it over the fire at a campground, like it was freezing out. We're cooking, like literally like caveman style over logs. I was like, oh, I'm doing this forever. Right. Like this is what I'm doing. I think that's important too because if I if I'm remembering correctly, you still have those antlers on your table, right? That's on my table in my studio. Yeah. So I mean, when people think, you know, to Adam's point earlier that we're just out there murdering things and it's meaningless. It's like, or mindless, I guess. Really, it's, it's, these animals are revered. You killed that buck. That was probably 2012, maybe. Yeah, that was 2012. Right. So it's 12 years ago and you still have those antlers as a, uh, memory of that hunt on your studio table right now, you're still talking about that,

that memory still as vivid as it was at that time, cooking, as you said, as a caveman, cooking that buck over the fire. So it's far from mindless. And in fact, it's actually the opposite. It's so soul-enriching that you're never going to forget those moments, and you still have that memory that they're every day at your studio. So I think people who don't hunt don't understand that part of,

the hunter's mind. It also, one thing I realized almost instantly is it taps into some form of genetic memory. The same memory that I was described it like when people catch a fish. Like, you know, I've seen it with my daughter when I took her fishing, which was really little, which was like four or five years old, Chicago First Fish. And there's a moment you go, oh, oh, I think it's ingrained in people because you know, this is going to feed you. You're not going to starve now. Like, it's in our genetic memory that if you catch a fish, like, it's not just exciting because it's kind of difficult and it's fun, but it's also exciting because you realize this is food and this is how you're... It's survival. You're going to survive. Right. Yeah. And the hunting

part is way more intense than fishing because you're out there in their world and it's your world too. It's not the ocean, right? It's your world. You're in the mountains. And you're, and you feel so vulnerable and so lonely kind of there's like a loneliness to to the wilderness like the wilderness like the wilderness doesn't give a fuck if you break your leg and die up there right yeah you're insignificant insignificant yeah completely nothing changes but when you do get the animal and you're cooking it over a fire like our ancestor did it ignites some part of you that i don't think you will understand unless you do that. Unless you participate, unless you go out and do that.

And I think most people who do do that and they eat that, that animal, that day over a fire, and you feel, first of all, how delicious it is, the sustenance and the fact that you accomplish this very difficult thing to do. And then you become obsessed with doing it again. It's so stimulating. It is so, like, I always feel like it's so mentally healthy for me. You know, I always feel that. And like just being in the outdoors is one thing, but then being a hunter and actually like being really involved in that whole circle of life, the whole system, you know.

I always feel like it's so mentally healthy for me. I always feel heaps better after it. But then there was bow hunter, which was like multiple levels of difficulty above that, above rifle hunting, but also. multiple levels of satisfaction higher, much more difficult to do and much more rewarding when it happens. And it also requires so much more discipline. Like I remember, do you remember that time that we went to California

and we had no success, boat hunting for like six days? And we pulled out a rifle and I shot an elk in like 30 minutes. Yeah. It was way easier. Yeah. But it was like, that's, that is the difference. Like the bow hunting part, it's so much hard.

But the rifle hunting part, it was, it was great. I got an elk. We ate it. It was fun. The whole thing was great, but it's not the same. Right. The bow hunting thing requires so, like, how many times I shoot a rifle that year? Like twice?

Yeah. You know, I would never think about taking a shot on an elk if I had shot my bow twice in a year. Right. But in a rifle. I'm like, where I got a stand? Okay. I got a scope. Okay.

All I have to do is this. Yeah. Boom. That was like 308 yards. Yeah. 308 yards with no practice. Yeah. Killed it with one shot.

Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, look, and I'm not downplaying the difficulty of rifle hunting. Rifle hunting. Rifle hunting is a difficult endeavor. Yeah. It's way more difficult than going to the grocery store. Yeah. And it's way more rewarding, way more satisfying.

But again, I'm always obsessed with things that are really hard to do. that are scary. And it's, and it's not, you know, if you had a lust for killing, I mean, you could use a rifle on this hunt. This is a CWMU tag, which any weapon is allowed. So if it was just about killing, you'd have a rifle and you'd kill the biggest bull, you know, you'd go out there and see what biggest bull you could find, get in, and drop it with rifle. It's not just about killing. It's about the challenge and about the reward of that challenge when you are successful.

or the heartbreak when you fail because that happens too. I mean, there is heartbreak in Bowhunter. Yes. And it's soul crushing to me. Soul crushing. And so you're putting yourself out there. You mentioned this big risk reward.

You talked about stand-up comedy. Bowlinging is similar because that the chasm between success and failure might as well be the Grand Canyon. Yes. It is such a difference. But that's what we're facing. Right. And I've had a massive advantage.

in knowing you and first of all knowing Ronella and having him take me and and mentor me and then having you teach me how to shoot a bow and and and show me and you know take me to Alberta and show me out a hunt with a bow it's like and then the the recognition of like oh this is a guy that's like so disciplined and has dedicated his whole life to this thing like how hard is this thing to do it's so hard to do but if you do put in that work you can get there. It is possible to get there. You know? Like when you and I hunted here a couple years back and you filmed that shot that I made on your camera, it's 67-yard shot, just shu-poo! Beautiful shot. Yeah, and we were all hugging and everybody's like, what are they doing?

Yeah. And like somebody that someone said, that was the closest we ever saw out of Cam and Joe having a baby. That was right. That was really. I love you. I love you. Yeah. That was so great. But it was, it was, It was because it's so difficult. And it's the result of discipline and working towards a goal that's a very hard goal to accomplish to make a 67-yard perfect shot in this one moment. And as bulls were squaring up. So I was like, boom on left, left, no, no, no, no, bull on the right. Right, right.

It's like, no, bull in the left. And then switch to the bull on the left. All this is happening crazy, a big rut fest. I don't know how many bulls were up there. but it was so much pressure and then you just executed the perfect arrow and I was just people would say why are you

you killed an animal why are you laughing and smiling it was just because when you've faced that pressure and succeeded in that moment that is it's such a relief kind of it's like an elation because you've those thousands

of arrows are sweating in the Texas sun the all the repetitions it paid off in that moment Yeah. That's why you see that reaction. And it's not just like shooting the arrows trying to get good at shooting arrows. It's knowing that one day you're going to have one moment. A test.

It's like this 10 second interval. You have 10 seconds. They crash. She chases them off. Broadside. Yeah. Draw back. Take them.

And that's it. Yeah. And then when you do and you see that arrow, go right into the lungs, like, oh my God, we did it. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's so difficult to do. And I hope everybody experiences something like that in their life. Because I think challenges are what make you a better person. And overcoming challenges is something that everybody should try to do. I don't think everybody should bow hunt. I don't think everybody should play chess. I don't think, I think you should do whatever you're excited about, whatever you are, whatever you're gravitated towards, whatever one does you.

whatever challenges you. And for you, it might be running 240 miles. I don't want to run 240 miles. Why the fuck do it? I don't know. But when you do it, I'm like, God damn, he did it. You know, it's doing things like that. Like I said, it's a vehicle for developing your human potential.

Just like martial arts, just like anything that's hard to do. It's like you realize that with hard work and when you have a goal and you work towards that goal, you see you're getting better and better and better. it used to be hard for me to like hit a target at 20 yards and like it was hard to like this block targets this big i get it over here i get it over there i always say nobody's born a great bow hunter you know i mean that takes it's fucking hard yeah it's fucking hard but that's why it's exciting and that's why i think we all gravitate towards it because that that challenge is uh It's something that it makes you more alive.

It really does. I've done a lot of difficult things. I've done a lot of challenging, scary things in my life. Bow hunting's the most exciting out of all the things that I do. Has it had the biggest impact on your life, do you think? It's hard to quantify. I mean, obviously, like financially, no. You know, like comedies had the biggest, and podcasting of the biggest impact

in terms of, like, what I've been able to accomplish. but the biggest it's it's a it's a different thing and there's like a brotherhood of bow hunting that's so different than anything else like I'll run into some guy at the grocery store and you know he'll come up to me and and it and be like hey you know I just got back from a hunt in Utah yeah oh shit how was it and then all sudden me and this guy are talking and I'm like well you know what do you shoot oh shoot with a Matthews oh shoot with a Hoyt you know what grains your arrow we start talking it's like immediately there's like understanding that we both do this crazy thing that's really difficult to do yeah you know and i'm always grateful to have found it yeah i'm always like

if i'm what who would i be and what would i be doing if i didn't find bow on him because like things where where like wear off with me you know and to have something that i've done for so long and stuck to it and we're being saying it hates this trip that at It's something that never gets dull. It never gets old. It never wears off. You know, you just keep like toning for more, you know. It's like, you were found out.

When we were coming here from the airport, you kept saying, like, it's more exciting. How can you get keener? Because I'm always like, keener. What would you? All week we've been ragged on Adam for his Australian phrase. get more excited and put it catching up on stakes I mean like I said I think when we were at my bowl today

it's like the first bull I killed yeah and it's it I was just like and I said it yesterday too I said this packing out your bowl working on your bowl I said this is the best day of my life and then today this is what today was the best day of your life

another best day of your life so I just I don't think the impact can be minimized at all but what has How has Bowhunting changed your life? How did you find it? I feel like it's kept me on a good, straight course. Healthy.

Yeah, like mentally, physically, the friends that I've made, like having such similar things of interest with someone goes such a long way, but it goes such a long way that it's hard to be friends with anyone that's not a bohunter. Yeah. That's a sucky bit.

Because someone's talking about something that's exciting and you're just like, have you ever like run an arrow through a buffalo pretty much so it's hard what the fuck are you talking about bowling boholy so exciting that everything is a little bit more dull right yeah and then um

there's other things that play in that because I don't like the party scene I never have but I've got I've got bad hearing so I'm at parties and someone's talked to me and I can't hear them with all the background noise So like hunting suits me in that sense Like I had a rough upbringing Like my dad was a really abusive alcoholic

And so that's pushed me away from people as well Because it's like that's my own family And he was like that So I don't really like strangers or crowd You couldn't trust your own family So how would you trust strangers? So that's another thing that puts you in an isolated situation Hunting's a beautiful isolated situation

You're out in the middle of nowhere There's all you're dealing with it was with animals you know and then and then the people you do meet because they're so like-minded it's easy as connect so there's there's all different little things that I feel like that's pushed me to really love bow hunting to the point that I'm like it's my life you know like I've got my immediate family and then I've got bow hunting which is essentially they're outdoors you know because you know we keep calling the bow hunting but it's like everything else that goes with it and I don't think you ever really master it you know it's like and and if you think you do that's when like an

animal does something that really surprises you and you know sort of yeah i always think i always wonder is this can be the year i don't kill a bull that's how hard it is um it is so hard i don't there's no success is not guaranteed i think until i get my first bull killed of the year i'm like i might not get one yeah it's that which imagine how exciting the next year would be like oh yeah i for it and redemption. But yeah, it's just like just the incessant work to prepare, as Joe mentioned, because of that fear of maybe I won't achieve my goal, you know, and maybe I won't have that elk me.

But it's like I'm worried about that. It's so hard. Yeah. And every time it does work out and there is a bull on the ground that fell to my arrow, such a feeling of relief, achievement, gratitude. I don't know. It'd be hard to explain. How many bulls do you think your witness

been killed with a bow and arrow? Uh, um, I mean, heaps, heaps, yeah. Heaps, heaps, tons. And then Joe, we get the call that Joe's got a bull down

and you're that excited. It's not even your bull. No. And you're that excited. And we just get up there and it's like, it's the most amazing thing ever. that with you was friggin' incredible and just yeah well you just and the whole lot packing it

off the mound and cutting it up seeing the wound channel where your broad edwin you saw how fast i was walking in there yeah because i was struggling keeping up i could not wait to get up that mound i'm like here you know he had the on the autics uh adam did you know it's like here i want to i was ready to cut up like as soon as possible oh that was the same thing today when you killed your bull we were eating breakfast Yeah. And we got the word. Let's go. Well, let's go.

They ran over to that. It's so exciting to watch your friends succeed, too, because you know what they went through, you know, how hard it is to do. Yeah. You know? And the difference between your first bull that you ever killed and the bull today is just that now you have immense confidence in your abilities because of the hard work that you put in and the fact that you've done it over and over again.

And you know that when that moment arises, like, explain the situation. today how you killed your bull because it's a crazy scenario yeah it was a it was a rut fest as we talk about there's some we're basically going to line out down the ridge like a couple miles because the wind just get the wind right the wind was going down right so we were going to go you can get trapped in this thing of you could hunt elk with the wind at your back or quartering it's all you're do is get frustrated and blow a bunch of elk out. So essentially you got to walk by elk if the wind's not right, we're going to get down a couple miles, loop back in, drop in the canyon and hunt back up with the wind going down. You have to have the wind right for people who don't know.

You would not kill with a bow unless the wind is right. If the animal smells you, it's over. So we're basically just going to sacrifice the hunt the beginning of the morning just to get the wind right. As we were going down, I went out on this little finger. ridge and kind of could get the wind right for this little pocket that was not in the big canyon we were going to hunt but a side canyon and outside draw essentially and if we dropped down then the wind would be coming down it so the wind would be right and there was a number of bulls going off in the pines up there so i just started lining out to them and there was some elk that could you know i found that if you just move slowly very slow very steady

you can get away with a lot, right? And so I was just slowly, no panic, no crouching, no anything, but we were hundreds of yards away from them, probably 600 yards. But just slowly going, staying in the shadows when I could, got all the way to the bottom. So now the wind was coming down. The bulls and the pines are going crazy. Eased up.

I saw the herd bull up there pushing cow. James is behind me filming. Terrell is behind him a little bit. And it was hard for me because I got to try to keep track of where two other people are to like when I stop, where are they stopping? What can they all see? So anyway, I get frustrated at times, but these guys did a great job. So we got up there and I had that herd bull at like 50-some yards

and he was a five-by-six. He wasn't what I would, you know, an old enough bull to shoot. But he had the herd. Snuck up. There's two other bulls. going crazy and it sounds like they were getting aggressive. I heard some antlers clashing it one time or another. Snuck up. Didn't see a bull that was over here. He had caught movement, but we were in the shadow so he didn't really know what happened, but he was another younger bull and he's about a 60 yards.

So now we're getting up in there and now it's getting really thick, very brushy. You saw when my bull died. Got up. I told James, stay right on me because I can't keep track of how far back you are and where you are so stay right on me so i know when i stop you stop when i move you move anyway so he got up on me and i started to sneak up through the thick foliage and uh there was a cow at about 10 yards and a bull come came down to her and i glas and i could see he wasn't a giant bull either so now i'm focused up the hill and i caught this glimpse of this bull and i saw he had a good good distance beyond his fifth point. The fifth point was pretty long and he had a little kicker or a little nub like almost a seven point and I'm like that's the biggest bull on this hill and I was working towards him and uh he was

kind of facing off to another bowl or they're kind of getting close I don't know if it was one of the other ones that had seen but anyway very thick I uh got in about probably 20 yards from him he didn't know I could barely see him through there and I just kept easing up and then he started to move to my left. Wind was coming down this whole time. So the wind was in our favor. It was couldn't have worked out any better. James is filming. Very thick, very hard to film. But the bull walked over and he was under 20 yards now. I had my sights set at 20. I had it at 30 originally, but even 30 was going to be too long of a shot in that, in that, all that brush. So I said it at 20, he knew it was going to be close if I did get a shot. He came, and he came to a window,

and I came to full drawn, and I was like, and he stopped after he went through the window. So Then I'm up full draw And he's like looking But it's so thick And I was like Did a mouth call Probably didn't sound like great But he was good enough

To not smoke room And then he started to move again Because it's so chaotic in there He was amped up He's looking to be aggressive On something on someone So he moved to this And I had another little window

And I was like Youeem Like kind of got He's like Then he stopped And then I was just like Wack Pricin release arrow

Hit high Kind of like You know Blow a spine but the arrow rode up and dropped him in his tracks and uh i saw him go down i just sprinted up there was probably like maybe under 15 yards and i just put an arrow on him real quick and he was done in seconds and that was it but it was i don't know if that that there's no way that could sound as intense as it was you'll see the video it was a madhouse in there it was like waiting into a

hurricane it sounds like everyday OTC so when we were coming with got to the top of the ridge and by the time we got to the top of the ridge the thermal started to rise so the wind was coming up so that's when we started to drop down yeah and as we started dropping down we were in really thick stuff but you couldn't see anything but there was bulls three or four bulls within 50 yards of us yeah screaming at the top of the lungs and we couldn't see anything right couldn't see it we didn't know where the cows were so we didn't know if we're going to bump into one of them so we're just slowly making our way this is on your kill yes okay yeah so then we get through clearing you know the the the the train was similar as far as they like running in that kind of thick

stuff for whatever reason i mean probably they feel safer there yeah um yeah i'm not sure they bet in there yeah you know i mean it was stunk it stunk like elf just smelled so awesome i mean very very similar very similar very thick very thick but then we got into this clearing and we got into clearing at the perfect time and they these smaller bowls, there were still big bulls, but not the herd bull. We're challenging this one bull for his cows. We heard a couple of cows mewing, so they were like, they were in heat, and this one herd bull was fighting them off.

And so Colton led out a challenge bugle. And this herd bowl was like, who the fuck else wants some of his shit? And so he came out into this opening, and he was looking at us, and we're just frozen. And it's like 25 yards just frozen. and then he's just staring on us and we don't even move we're just completely frozen and then another bull bugles

and he's like what the fuck and then he starts like reaving towards them and then Colt goes and there was this opening between these two trees at 27 and he was just quartering away and I just sent it. What did you have your sight on?

I had it on 25 because I knew where he was so you're prepared. Yeah because everything was so close I just set it at 25 and he was at 25 or did you think about my prophetic It was crazy because I was showing Cam these groups that I was making at 84 and he goes, well, hopefully you'll get a bull at 24 yards. So we're only off by a yard. I mean, I think he got to 27.

I think Colton said, but I kept my sight at 25. Was it right when you took the shot? No, right afterwards. So I take the shot. Colton goes, you smoked him. Like it was a perfect shot. Quarter and away went right through his body. And then we see blood.

because he ran over this one tree with this deadfall and we could see the blood on the tree and so we said okay he's clearly he's bleeding and then the sky opens up and it just starts pouring

and we're like shit yeah we didn't see him drop but but but also he didn't really know what happened so he didn't run off he hit him and he was so fired up because of the rut

because of all these other bulls were and even after we hit him another bull bugled right where he went we're like is that him how is that him that's not even possible because it was a perfect shot it was like it doesn't make any sense and so it was pouring rain so we had to make a call so we said let's just sit here so we sat there for two hours it just drenched put on the reindeer and it's and then the sky opens up so like we're not going to see any blood so we waited for two hours while I was pouring rain. And then finally, around, I guess, 11 a.m., it starts opening up.

And we made the call, let's wait one more hour, just in case. It was a ridiculous hour of not knowing. So you're sitting there for a whole hour, just like huddling in the trees. Because Colton was worried that you guys both thought it was a good arrow, perfect shot. But just in case, you did have to blood trail it. There was, it could be no blood because of the rain. And we didn't see him drop. Right. Right. So if he did go down and bedded, right, waiting wasn't going to hurt anything.

Right. Exactly. All it could do is hurt. If you pushed him with no blood, potentially you could lose that animal. 100, 100%. When waiting is, takes so much discipline because everybody wants to hold those hours. I mean, everybody wants to get through their animal. But sometimes you have to be disciplined. Yeah. And that was, that was a, it was the right call. Liking that call, yeah. It was, well, Coulton's so good. He's such a great guide and he's so experienced. And so, you know, he made the, call and I was like you're right let's just sit here so but it's that wild moment of not knowing for like three hours we're sitting there we gave him two hours and we started to give him one more hour you know and then it was fully sunny out by this time and so then we started creeping and so we did

find that blood was still on the log which was promising you know that like okay maybe we will be able to blood trail them and then we did find a couple specks of blood that hadn't been rinsed off on some of the leaves that he passed by. And so we used onyx hunt and we mapped the trail and we kind of had an idea where he went and we started walking real slow and 100 yards later he was right there.

He had been stiff so he'd probably died really quick. He was dead like he was dead on his feet like doing that autopsy and seeing where the wound channel was and cutting the top of the heart off. Like he was dead on his feet but it's such a big long-legged animal. Yeah, and cover distance.

They can cover distance especially going downhill. So if it was like something else, another species of animal, it might have went 20, but they can just cover so much. They're so tough too. And so, you know, we start creeping and then, you know, it was only like five minutes and then Colton Bulls. And you see these antlers in the bushes, poking out of the bushes, so I knock an arrow.

Well, I had an arrow knocked already because we were creeping. And so we started creeping up to him, but he was dead as a door now. And it was just, oh. Yeah, the relief. The relief was so incredible. You know, and then to see him there and just, you know, it was blood everywhere where he was. So he must have just ran to that spot and just piled up and died.

And it was, uh... Yeah, that broad head was devastating. It's just so, such a, such a, the relief is so incredible. It's just like, oh, like it's the elevation. You're just elated in this incredible way. Yeah, you're peeking, Mike. it must have been peeking. Yeah, no, like all your training and getting ready and even the power process that goes in

behind it, you know, like even the mental training and then they pull it off, like it all coming together. Yeah, and also, haven't done it so many times now, the ability to keep your, the anxiety in a box. Like, so I know when, like, when we were coming down in the thick stuff and all these bulls were screaming, And even these young bulls had these crazy bugles. You couldn't tell who was who. Like there was this one young bull that really tricked us because he sounded incredible. And you feel that coming on like, oh my God, it's going to happen.

It's going to happen right now. But because I've done this so many times because I know what that is and because I've been nervous, everything I do makes me nervous. So I know how to like stay calm. Yeah. Like stay in the pocket. And so just almost like, dead like you stayed dead calm like just completely focused on the task and so when you know colton

and he was like a quartering away and i drew back when the out it was like i'll shoot a target it was crazy composed completely relaxed completely relaxed and and for whatever reason your journey life has prepared you for moments like that because for for a lot of people in that moment including me when I first started building, sometimes I wouldn't know what pin I used. What I, it's like a blackout. Yeah,

rush of it. It's like so much adrenaline going at that moment, so much high emotion that you just kind of, instead of that intense focus as you had, because I feel like everything you've done has prepared you for that. And, you know, 57 years of life, that's kind of what you're built for, right?

When you first start, when you're new in this journey of life, that moment is so big. It's nuts. It's hard to, you can't harness it. Yeah, it can tell you the jelly.

They can. And it does. Some people shoot 20 yards over the top of a bull. Well, shout out to Joel Turner, because one thing that has really helped me is his whole shot IQ program and his explanation,

because Joel was, he was a sniper, you know, and so, you know, when you have to make shots, when like he was explaining on my podcast about this shot he had to take on this guy who was holding

this girl hostage and some meth head who you know I forget he had a knife or a gun I forget what it was but he had to make a headshot on this guy who was holding a girl hostage and he was explaining how those moments where law enforcement officers

and for sure military and people have to make shots in an incredible tense, just life or death environments that you have this unconscious urge, just pull the trigger and just hope it goes well. And what he explains in his shot IQ program is that there's a thing called open loop and closed loop thinking. An open loop is like you swing a baseball bat. It's like you're not going to stop that baseball bat. swing in it. And closed loop is you're in control of every single aspect of that, but you have to

talk yourself through it. So he has this whole program where he explains that you're, you're thinking loudly, you're talking to yourself in your head about how you do this, you know how to do, draw back and aim, like he has this whole thing, get it done, you know, all these different things, you can have different things that you can say, I know you say, keep the pin on them, keep the the pin on them, keep the pin on them. And as you say that, you're talking to yourself and it keeps you focused on this very specific task. And you have to be able to not, you don't want to hit the trigger. So you have to be able to like execute perfectly in that one moment. And the way to do that is to have this thing in your head where you're talking yourself through it. And

the more you can do that, the more you'll be calm as you do do it. And the more times you've been in those scenarios where you're bow hunting, the better you'll be off at doing it. Were you doing that? Yes. Yeah. Do you remember specifically doing that or is like subconscious now? No, it's, I do it when I'm shooting. I do it when I'm practicing.

So I don't, the kill. Yeah. Not necessarily. No, I definitely remember, um, light, light thumb on the trigger, elbow up high, pull with the back, keep the pin on them. You know, this whole thing, like center the peep, make sure the bubbles, level, elbow up high, light pressure on the thumb, stare at the target where you want to hit, pull, pull, execute.

Okay. And it all went perfect. It just all went. But it's also because I've shot like 12 bulls now. You know, it's also because I've shot a bunch of pigs and deer. I've done that many, many times. I know what it is, but his program is excellent because the mental side of it is something you need to learn through repetition, through many, many, many hunts, or you can have a

shortcut where you can understand what the thought process is and how to control that thought process in these heavy stressful situations. And for sure, it also helps that I've been through a lot of stressful situations. So I know what that anxiety, like, you can get that anxiety right before you go on stage, like before my Netflix specials. Like, that was live for the whole world. And so as I'm in the dressing room and Tony's on stage and Ron White's on stage and they're killing in front of the crowd. I know in 10 minutes I'm going to be in front of millions of people. But I feel that thing come on. I'm like, no, no, no.

Stay in this box. This is the box of performance. The box of performance is, you know what you do. You know what you do. 100% confidence in your preparation. I prepared as I did who knows how many sets

getting ready for that I did who knows how many times I mean the whole day of my show I watched tapes I listened to recordings I went to the gym

I had my set playing in my ear while I was working out like I covered all bases I didn't I left no stone unturned so that when I went on stage

I could stay in the park and I was just in the zone the entire time I was on stage like I never thought oh my God there's all these people watching. Never thought that.

I just went through it. So I'm used to doing things like that where it's like, go. Ready, now. And those things are so exciting. But even doing a live Netflix special is not as exciting as releasing a perfect arrow on a bowl

in the middle of a rep fest. There's nothing like it. I wonder if it's because when you're doing your set, it's you. You are the, you are the only thing that's affecting that. Right.

Whereas when you're hunting, it's you, but you don't know what the animal's going to do. Exactly. You don't know what the wind's going to do. You don't know what the, you know, it's like there's so many variables that you can't control essentially. But so you control what you can

with your shot IQ process, with this whole thing, with all the reps that you do, but hopefully it works out right. Right. But all you can control is you. All you, but it's also, the consequences are so different

because you love these animals so much. It's life. And you want a clean kill. You want one arrow. You want it to go right through the vitals. You want to watch the animal drop ideally. And because we couldn't watch the animal drop because it was so thick.

I mean, he only went 100 yards. If it was lying of sight, we would have able to see him run and drop right where he was. We didn't have that luxury. And then it was pouring rain. I mean, the sky just opened up on us. So then we're sitting there going, shit we're not going to have a blood trail and so now I'm going through my mind where I saw him go

like that I know he went down like which way did he go we're pretty sure he went that way um so we just there's this weird moment where you're like I think I did it I think it all worked out great yeah but you don't know until you're right there both of you as well were so confident where the arrow hit and see it bury up to the fletches because we were talking about it a bit like you know on the way up and stuff like that it's just like it sounds like it's dead like right there but because that country is like that it probably could have only went 20 yards as well and you still wouldn't have seen it gone down no you wouldn't have seen anything it was so thick yeah he went crashing through and he again he didn't even run off he just kind of like he he stumbled when he

got hit he went over this log i don't think he knew what was happening but the cows didn't react so the cows were everywhere i got film of a cow 10 feet from me. Did I show it to you yet? No. They had no idea what happened. No idea. And we're standing there dead still. And this cow is feeding where that couch is. That's one, a big thing.

And we talked about this too, that I love about bow hunting as opposed to rifle hunting. When a rifle reporter goes off, everyone knows. Everything runs. It's just chaos. Yeah. And when a bow, I mean, sometimes nothing changes. The bull just kind of goes off and dies. A bull tried to breed a cow five yards from us.

Five yards from us. That bull walked right past us. The cow went 10 feet from us. It was eating grass. Cows were all around us. There were 15 yards to our right, 10 yards, 5 yards, all around us until they eventually wandered off. And then there was another bull down there that was screaming. And then we heard bulls crashing and clashing antlers above us.

And we still didn't know whether they were. the ball was dead. We didn't know what was going on. It's great that you had the knowledge to, even though you'd shot a bull and you, you, you were pretty sure that it was the perfect shot, that when that cow and that was there, you're still like, we're not spooking them because that could then do a knock on effect and spook your bull and push your bull for the fact that you know it to be like, okay, yeah. Also, it was just cool. Yeah. Because they were just sitting there like, who's just right there?

You know what? I'd be worried about it with a bull breeding a cow five yards away. Can come done? Don't get calm done. That's an inside joke. It was like, that's a big inside joke. You were saying about keeping calm and like obviously you've had a lot of that in life that didn't happen to even do the stand-up that you're training yourself to do the Netflix special right?

And usually I'm calm, really like really calm. And this trip, when my bull ran towards. me the first time I thought he was coming straight towards me I was settled the whole time but because he ran towards me and I was like dead still no shaking once he turned away and I let down yeah I that's I was shit you like hands arms all right it's actually a really uncomfortable feeling like I've had because you can control your body times it's an uncomfortable feeling and then when because another ball actually come over the ridge of my bull that kept challenging you and that's what I end up pushing the cows towards me um and he tried to

tried to hurt him off. So when he come back the second time and I was like, I can't be like this. I somehow I managed to put that into my legs. So my legs were just going, but the top end was, they'd smooth. And then obviously I shot the top of his heart off

and then adrenaline kicks in even more. But for some reason, it was just in my legs. But it was still an uncomfortable, I was still uncomfortable. Even when the ball was dead in front of me and I was up there, I'm like, I don't want to feel him. I was out of control.

I never got excited until we got the bull down. I stayed like completely in that box even after the shot. Even after it hit him, I wasn't like, yeah, we did it. It was not like, Colton said, you smoked him. We kind of like hugged a little high five, but I stayed like 60 beats a minute. I just stayed level. But that's also the experience. Yeah.

You know? Sure. You know, we talked about, you talked about Colton said he smoked him. Because we said when we're by ourselves, you can turn a shitty shot in your head into a perfect shot. Right. because you know what you wanted to see and you wanted to see it so bad that you'd make it that.

And that's not what it was. But I said the fact that Colton also said as a perfect shot, then feeling pretty good about it. There's also the sound because he was quartered away the sound of the whack, like where it hit the ribs.

You can tell a lot from the sound of the arrow hitting. Yeah. You know, if it's a, yeah, I mean. And then it also helped that you could see like where we're standing. You could see the blood where you hit. You could see, like, as he went over the logs, you could see the blood. Yeah.

It was, but it was, it's, it's an amazing moment. It's a weird moment. It's not like anything else in all of life. I do want to say, too, that, you know, we were kind of joking that you shot a bull so fast. But, you know, with this weather that came in, it, there is no guarantee that the honey's going to stay the same. We, we had a couple of great days, but the weather changed everything. I mean, there's quite a few people hunting.

this is a huge property, right? And they haven't had the success we've had. And the weather probably has played a big part of that. Because when it's super windy and rainy, animals don't like that. They can't use their sense of smell. Everything's moving. They are nervous.

So we were in on a herd that was in the timber waiting out the storm. And they weren't moving an inch. It's hard to kill a bowl when they're hunkered down because of this weather that came in. And it was sleeting, snowing, raining, windy. So there's no guarantee that the hunting is going to be great the whole time. And we're on a weak window.

Weather could screw it up. So you took advantage of an opportunity you had that wasn't guaranteed you were going to have it forever. I've been on hunts where the first day was amazing. And you're like, oh my God, this hunt's going to be the best of my life. And then that was the best day of the hunt. And every other day after that, you're like, why did I not take advantage of that first, those first opportunities. So it's, you know, to kill a big mature bull like you did on the first day.

You have to. You have to do it. The hunt before I came here is like a three-day journey to get there. And I was there for half a day and had an urge of matter back in civilization that I had to attend to and packed up. Yeah. What was going to be a 10-day trip packed up and had to go home. You know, so it's like, you don't know what's around the corner. Weather-wise, animal-wise, something back at home that you.

in 10 too. And I'd never, ever get to do that. So to shoot like an old bull like that, and I'm stoked with the size of him as well and just a peaceful kill, can't beat it. And then to be able to go and like enjoy Joe's kill with him and you'll kill with you. Yeah, mate.

We want to wrap this up with, we had a, as I said, we watched YouTube videos, we're talking broadhead. Shout out to Lusk Archery. Yeah, John Lusk. Amazing videos. His criteria for testing, incredible, scoring, very thorough. I hadn't seen it, very informative.

But, so Adam is a big, this is basically what Australia uses, things like this, similar, two blade, very tough, pretty, how heavy is this arrow? About 540. 540, so that's, you've even used heavier.

Yeah, I did like 660s. Yeah, right. What I had a hundred Buffalo is at 650. with a cutting tip. I think a Magnus Stinger or something maybe on there. But you saw the wound channel on my bowl. Joe's had good luck with expandables. So we've been talking about

should you try something different, right? It's funny because I come into the hunt and it's hard to change when something really hasn't failed you. But I come into the hunt saying, I also like the idea of that you have to hit it in the right place to then claim that. animal's life, you know, but I hate not having a good blood trial, which you can have with a two-blade broadhead. Whereas you guys with your expandables, the blood trails are just insane.

Like some murderous shit. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the key is with the expandable heads, we use heavy arrows at fairly high poundage. I think you can get into trouble on a big animal like elk if you have a light arrow at light poundage. That's just, the blades are opening. It's just too much it has to, you need too much energy to make it work the way it's designed to work. And on a big body, a big bone, heavily muscled animal like an elk, people could run into trouble without, we don't. Yeah, we have enough energy. You have enough energy. Yeah. It's hard to argue, you can't argue with your results from using those heads and the constant success and they'd never failed you. And then from what Joe has tried the brainwash into me as well, it's like,

shit, I need to try these heads. And it's like, just, laid me along. Well, it's also he started as a fixed-played guy. Yeah. And it was only two years ago that he started two years? Three years. Three years ago that you started using those grim reapers. Yeah, that was Wayne, you know, Wayne sets up thousands of bows for people every year.

He lives for bow hunting. And he says, I think you should try these. These are a great head. And he showed me some wound channels on a blacktail he killed up in the high country. And I was like, that looks devastating. But that was a deer. So I was very hesitant to use them on elk because we've just been ingrained to say you need a good fixed blade head for an animal. I mean elk.

And so I said, well, I'll try it on deer that I made this less than perfect shot on this buck in Idaho, a little high, a little back, got 36 yards. And I was like, I saw it. And I just, you know, you know, and didn't hit where you were hoping, where you wanted to hit that animal. And he went 80 yards and went down. And I was like, wow, that was a nice. surprise. And then I thought, well, my first elk hunt that year was Roosevelt elk on the coast. And I smoked his bull. I hit it with two because he was hurt. And the penetration was amazing. And the bull went down quickly. So I'm like, okay, I guess I'll try him on elk because

Roosevelt are big-bodied animals bigger than Rockies even. And since then, every bull has killed been with the Grim Reaper. So that's my proof. Yeah. And I have to be. And I have to be a I haven't had a failure yet. Yeah. People worry about expandables back in the day was not opening up or there used to be rubber bands. Well, that was like first like experience of expandables. One failed on the very first animal that I shot with, but it wasn't even a big animal. So it just fully turned me off.

I'm right. And then then there's probably been a couple of animals that I should have lost where I told you this story where it busted through that red staggs, the main. bone on the red stag and went through its rib, through its heart, out of rib, and then buried into the leg on the other side and just jammed it up and it just died right there on the spot. And I'm like, I probably should have lost that because I'm shooting a solid two-blade

broadie where it just wants to split. You know, but the pros and cons of what I said, like I can shoot that. That's the Kyoga violet cut and it's got bleeders in it. So I still call it a two-blade broadie because it's just got those bleeders in it. Those bleaters are pretty large though. Yeah. And it does open them up and does let them bleed.

But if I shot something like that and it reacted hard, like I said, and it opens up, you know, because of its reaction and its legs are stretched down, narrow goes through, but then it starts running normal. It's all that muscle and everything can hide and everything just closes off the hole. So it's dying. It's going to bleed internally, but it doesn't necessarily give you a good blood trail to track. Yeah. The track.

And the wound channel inside the animal is not as big. That's right. Whereas yours, like when we cut your bull on it, the wound channeled through that was just it actually looked about that big yeah it looked wider than what the actual well because it pushes all that tissue together yeah so like wide and that one i think that one too

is because it was quartering away so it's cutting back here when it starts and then cuts here so it's oh even internally like up underneath like below the spine where it ran up and through the top of the heart wound channel was yeah devastating and and you could have actually been been an inch either side of the top of the tubes that were coming down to the heart, you were still getting that tube

no matter what. Like, instead of cutting straight directly through, you might have just cut one half of one side. Either way, that bull was dead on his feet. Like, yeah. I can, I get, I mean, I don't know if I get, but I understand where people,

maybe somebody with the light arrow, light draw, this would be the way to go. This cutting tip, tube blade, because it's going to enhance penetration. Yeah. And there are people who, you know, I don't know if they have a lean towards traditional type thought process, but thinking this can't fail.

Yeah. And expandable potentially could fail. And expandables have failed. Well, that's the con of your expandable. If you hit that bone on that red stag like I did, it is stopping there. Yeah. You know, but it's like you're not aiming for that anyway

and you shouldn't be hitting that anyway. And when you think about it, A two-blade probably shouldn't go through there on a lighter poundage either. So like Kimmy shot a giant buffalo. She was shooting about 55 pounds at the time. She's got a solid one piece brought it. So a two-blade brought it up front. That's 150 grains.

And she was finding the far side of that bull when she shot it. And other bull, she finds the far side of it. And that's with 55 pounds. So like for someone like Kim and definitely Buffalo, you wouldn't do it. But you'd never be like, hey, use one of these massive big expandables. Right. So it is sort of weighing up what animal you're shooting, what poundage you're shooting.

They would probably be the two bigger ones to be like. And as you said, if you were using a lot of poundage bow, probably that. But then again, mate, yeah. I just, I don't like, you know, I've used them out for three years and killed, I'm not sure how many animals. I don't like when people say they knew this one person who shot this one animal and at 40, pounds and it zipped through pasture. Yeah, yeah. It's like, well, you fucking didn't hit anything.

You know, in between the ribs on both sides, that can happen. So that's a sample of one. So I like to look at, I've had three seasons now. I would know positives, negatives, pretty good. I'm not saying I'd have thousands of kills. That's what we'd like thousands of kills for the sample size. But I have enough to where I haven't seen a failure. I've made less than perfect shots because not every shot I shoot is perfect.

and I haven't lost an animal. So it's, you know, that, that feels good. I mean, you said, Kimmy's been finding the far side on multiple animals. Yeah. So you're pretty confident that what she's using is a good set of. Yeah, very, yeah. And tell me what it was again. She's using like a one thing brought in like that.

Yeah. No, none of the bleed is in there. So it's just like a straight cut fruit. Designed for penetration. And like her. ball was like her ball's body was wider than her arrows by a good chunk and she was going through one side of the buffalo and not the arrow wasn't exiting yeah as in like blowing through it but it'll stick in out yeah that's that's what a two blade broadhead will do that's what they're designed for

um but that's also lighter poundage lighter arrow that's for to me that's exactly if you have the higher poundage heavier arrow. Yeah. You can still get that penetration. You'll punch and for, with more devastation delivered. Yeah. You know what I mean? But I get the, you know, Iron Will is, and I love Bill from Iron Will.

He's very dedicated archer. I love what he's doing. I like he has a single bubble head, very tough, very rugged head. And so I see the appeal to that part. But to me, I'm weighing out. Am I worried about penetration for myself? No. And I'm not sponsored by any broad,

manufacturer. I buy my broadheads because I don't I care I don't I don't I care about the animal way more than I care about money right I just want to use what's going to be help me achieve my bonding goals at the highest degree and so for me personally I'm not worried about penetration so I'm going to use something that causes damage I mean the heads we were looking at tonight seem they the job yeah pretty damn impressive that video is this is a Dale Perry I'm remember he sent me some broadheads before and I killed a bear with him. What was that one that I said? Do you remember what the name was? I said the one I used. Um, he's got the juckle and hide, but it was, well, this is, this is the hide. The one that you used to use was, uh, we saw that we watched the video.

I, or I mean, you had mentioned the video, but anyway, anyway, he's been in the broadhead game for a long time. Yeah. So these type of, I think he's from Arizona, these type of archery fanatics come up, with just trying to tweak these designs, how can we make this more devastating and tougher? And so the test we saw on this one and also on the Lusk archery tested it. And it was incredible. Yeah, this is what I think.

The durability is amazing. What I shot this hunt was the new G5T2, which is like similar to a rage, two blade expandable. What I like about this over that is that it has this fixed blade head at the top and then it opens up into a two-inch cut behind it. So you have a three-quarter-inch cut at the top,

and then you have two inches in the back. And he shot, Lusk Archery, he shot this through MDX. He had incredible penetration through the ballistic gel. So he has this layer of like rubber over the ballistic gel, and I think he got like eight inches of penetration, even past that, even past the rubber. rubber into the ballistic gel because this super sharp head at the top and then it opens up this giant channel still getting massive penetration because this thing opens and these pop open once

it's through so this thing makes the cut and then these two open up behind it here's pathway force so he shot this through steel through 22 gauge steel twice didn't lose a blade and then shot it into a concrete shot it into a cinder block and then spawn tested it yeah I don't even get that. That's all I'm like that. Incredible. I don't even get that. I've never seen it broadhead that.

Maybe a Montec. How many he shot a Montec? Yeah, I shot a Montec into a concrete wall. And that's like one solid piece of steel. Yeah. But besides that, that durability that we saw on that video. Incredible. Incredible.

Especially for such a big cut. Yeah. So I shot the G5T2 because it's Dudleys. And I, you know, I know he's already shot an elk with. and deer and a bunch of hogs and I just wanted to shoot it for him so I shot it and it obviously had incredible results

but what I like about that over just a simple two blade is that even if something goes crazy and a blade breaks off or you still have that three quarter inch fixed blade at the front which according to the luck lux archery

tests you're getting more penetration than you are with any other expandability he uses Yeah. So that fixed blade of the top opens everything up. And then once it's opened up, those two big-ass blades. And I know Aaron Snyder likes those as well. Yeah.

Another one that's really great is the sever. Sever has a hybrid too that they do. But it's a little smaller cut. It's an inch and a half in the back and a three-quarter in the front. They have rubber bands. You have to keep on them. Yes. I don't like that.

That's the downfall. Yeah. This does not have that. And this does not deploy in your quiver. Right. my problem that I had with severes in the past is that you're sticking in your quiver, you're seeing and so you have to be real careful not to push it in too hard

because you're seeing the blades come out. It's a little clunky, but they decided that was the best for their design. I think this is what I want to go with next. Yeah. And they fly like darts. They fly like field points. And one of the thing that Lusk does that's so smart

is he shoots through a crossbow. So, you know, it's no possibility of like moving your arm funny wrist tree. Yeah, right. So he shoots, the first thing he shoots, I think he does 30 or 40 yards, I forget. But he shoots a field tip, quap right in the center, you know, because he's using a scope, he's got a crossbow. And then the second shot, he shoots at the broadhead so you can get it. And it shoots very, very similar to where the field points go. I wonder why he doesn't use a hooter shooter to shoot an actual compound bow. I think because he just wants to see the flight of the actual head itself. So the best way to do that, I mean, if you don't have a hooter shooter, is to just shoot it. it with a crossbow. It's probably pretty similar if you're shooting on a rest. You know? Think about a crossbow is just like, I always say a crossbows. Like when someone says, oh, I bow hunt too, I use a crossbow.

That's a shitty gun. That's what it is. You have a shitty gun. There's nothing wrong with shooting a shitty gun. But what you have with a crossbow, you have a shitty gun. Yeah. It's really good. I mean, it definitely kill an animal. Super effective. Way more accurate. You have a scope. You know, it's way more accurate than a regular compound

bow. But the reality is, it's not you're not really bow hunting per se. You're kind of bow hunting. You're crossbow hunting. Let's just say that. It's not the same thing. Yeah. But because he's usually through a crossbow, he knows he's getting the accurate flight.

Yeah, I mean, that's the most thorough test I've seen on Broadhead. He's the best man. And he's got dozens and dozens of tests. He updates almost every day. He's got some new test. And he's got like a specific scoring protocol. He, like, Like he shoots through cardboard.

That's the other thing about that. Shooting through cardboard, he got incredible penetration, layers of cardboard. Like way more penetration than I've ever seen with other fixed blade or other rather mechanical heads. Yeah, there's a thought too. I was just thinking that, you know, with that cutting tip, you know, you mentioned that big cut on Joe's Bull. Is that, that's not a cutting tip on the head you used, right? No. So it might be pushing in the hide.

Yes. Cutting wider. whereas a cutting tip wouldn't do that. Right. It would cut. So it would, yeah,

I wonder how that affects penetration in those tests because when you're cutting you're getting more penetration with this. Right. But you probably won't get

as wide in opening. But Aaron Snyder really likes these and he says he has crazy wound trap. Animal, you'll get a bigger wound if it has to push in and cut. Right.

You need more energy to do that. Yeah. Right. Because if you have light pounds, it's going to suck up energy towards just pushing that hot. If you have light pounds. Yeah.

Right. But I'm shooting 80 pounds. Yeah. And it went through the whole body cavity and hit the far side shoulder. Yeah. So went through the entire. I love, I don't care what people come up with or what they decide on. I love the thought that goes into just believing in what you use.

Yeah. That's, to me, that's what makes. I'm not saying other things, other hunting, um, endeavors don't do like rifle, muzzleload or whatever. but I just, bowhunter's obsess about these crazy details, and I love it. Yeah. I love it. Because you might shoot something different than Adam.

Adam might shoot, and we all believe in it to the highest degree. Well, I've shot so many different heads, too. I mean, I shot, I think I've shot the most bulls with either a Montec carbon steel. I've killed quite a few bulls with that. They're sure. Yeah, the one I shot on the Under Armour video, that was a Montek. But that did not leave a big brother. It may zip right through it, full pass through,

killed it instantly, but it did not leave a big hole. It did not leave a lot of blood. The animal died right there. I mean, we got to see it wobble and then tip over. But if I hit that same spot with a rage or with a T2 or with one of these evolutionary outdoor, it would be a canal.

It would be spraying blood all over the place. Well, I don't think there's anybody who's, that I know personally, has killed more animals than you have. have at them because and i've done it all of a tube labor on it i know and i think you use the same setup for buffalo as you do deer right yeah so i always say this like the same arrow i'll shoot at a rabbit is what i shoot at a buffalo and so i don't change anything there's no sites changing there's no

weight changing or anything just to stick to that so but that doesn't mean it's the best and definitely not the best for everyone but it's it is it's more like that culture in australia there's there's a bunch of australian um broad-ed manufacturers that that make us solid two-blade broadhead and it's like it's like it's what I cut my teeth on. Yeah. You guys all have quibilizers. All the quibolizers. All the quibolizers.

How come everybody has a quibilizer? They're just really popular over there and they, they just suit the hunting. You know, so what do you mean? Like, how would it suit the hunting better than it's side-mounted? Weight-wise, for starters, obviously. So, you know, with the quivilizer, it turns into your stabilizer. Is it not? like in the mountains it's so windy is it not are you not facing winds i don't i've never noticed

it joe definitely noticed it on this trip shooting at the target yeah we're at that spot you had that wind coming left to right but but that could be a hunting situation sometimes yeah so so i feel like it just didn't doesn't work for you but i've i've taken it off twice in like eight years and the twice that i've taken it off was boe in really extreme wind, though, where I really picked up on it. But you've got the eight arrow quiver as well. Yeah, I keep seven arrows in.

So I've got... It's a sale. Yeah, so five arrows is obviously picking up less wind. But all other years of use of five arroles. Okay. Yeah. No, that's not true. Last year I started with,

on Aaron Snyder's recommendation. I started the eight arrow one last year. I kept like seven arrows. I recommend that. Because he said it just holds so good because there's so much weight out there. You get an extra weight. I mean, think about it.

You have 100 grain broadheads. You have 700 grains at the very front. That is like that weight that's like, I find it, if there's no wind, I find it very steady. Yeah, that makes sense. So option archery make a side mount too. So if it was really windy, you can take the quiveralizer off the front to clip it on the side. And I found that I just never took it off. And the two times that I did take it off, it was just.

sitting right beside me. Right, you wouldn't. Because if you put it on the side, then you still have all that stuff that's going to catch wind. Well, yeah, yeah, you do. Yeah. And then, so even side quivers, like, it was always nice to have a quick release one just in case it was really windy, but you start changing your bow. So you're changing the weight and your bow and what you used to shoot. Right, right. If you took your quiverizer off and you're used to all that weight out the front, well, you may not shoot any better, but at least you're not doing that in the wind. So look, I've really suits me. I think it's been promoted well in Australia as well, like options gear.

And a lot of our terrain is open terrain. I originally when option archery come out of the Equivalizer, I thought, oh, this is going to be a bitch in the thick timber and go through there. And it's just like in the way that you hold it

and the fact that you're trying to shoot for a clear path, if you're taking a shot anyway, it's usually free, but there's pros and cons in everything. In everything. So one of the cons would be you are in the timber and say the best red stag of your life comes up and then start walking to the side and there's a branch out there in front of your bow like you're clear here and you're going to move well i haven't had that happen but i'm not saying it's not going to happen on the once

in a lifetime animal but i i just love it i love i like a light bow i was spoken about that a few times like you guys like a heavy bow i like a really light bow and then the little weight that is out front yeah it's a big difference You used to have that, was that aim for a pastor? What is the name of his? The mule. The mule. Yeah.

So the mule one has like a little rest so you can carry it if you're holding. The way it has like this little thing that like. Yeah. Your forearm. Yeah. But then you would put an eight inch stabilizer or six inch? Yeah. At the front of that.

An eight inch. On the front of that. Yeah. Was it an eight inch or a six inch? I think it was eight. So then you have 18 inches. Yeah. So you have a 10 and then.

18 inches. And that sucker is holding. And then you have a back bar that bounces out your quiver. And you keep your quiver solid mounted to the bow, the one that comes to the weight, you screw into the riser. Yeah. And you keep four hours, four hours in there.

Yeah. So, and you have it perfectly balanced like that. But then you decided that that was too much trouble to carry around when you're flying. Yeah. And it was, yeah, I don't know. I don't know why. I just, I'm not sure why. I just set up a new bow and just had the other stabilizer on

and started shooting that. So then I was used to that. It's funny that we all do have different settings. When I first got here, you were saying that you take your site off and bolt it on at the start of every trip that involves a flight, right? Because it doesn't fit in your box. To me, I'm just like, oh my God, no. Oh, really? But obviously it works for you.

It must go in exactly the same place every time. And you take a shot every time you get the camera. Yeah, and I have little scratches, regular amounts. But I mean, how it seats in there could be different. I mean, when we're talking like perfection, that's the goal. We want it perfect. But I shoot every time I get to somewhere. But also, don't you think with the Pickingini mount,

it's a little bit easier now? Yeah. Yeah, it's easier. Yeah. But it's just... That's a nice. Like, hey, twake and the... It's also, instead of being on the right-hand side,

now it's dead in the center. What that has all done, and with the... I got the side back bar offsetting the quiver. What we want is as soon as we see an animal, as fast as we get that side acquisition, the better your bow is balanced, the quicker that's going to happen.

Sometimes getting a shot is that. It's that quick. That's the difference between getting shot and not getting a shot. So the quicker that pin can come up, you can get that peep in that site housing and everything leveled up. The easier your bow balances, the faster that'll all going to happen.

and the faster that arrows on its way. Well, that's also that makes sense why you keep a quiver mounted permanently to your bow and you practice with arrows in that position. Yeah. So they're always, it's always the same way. It's always right there

because I know a lot of guys they like to take their quiver off when they make a shot. A lot of guys are like a tight spot and they pop it off and they set it down when they make a shot. But sometimes you can't set it down. No, sometimes it's no time.

And sometimes I'm running and trying to finish off an animal after explain it yeah you know i wanted to go back to the broadheads with that broader that you were shooting yeah i don't know if you noticed but i was trying to close up your bull's left side lung once we cut it out i i had both hands on the wound channel and i was trying to blow the lungs that was show joe how much bigger they can actually get when they're inflated yeah the psycho was blowing a lung up yeah i could not close that wound channel and then i took my hand off and looked at it and it was like that yeah For the lung.

Yeah. They're devastating for sure. That's what makes it very tempting to try. Yeah. They're not going to go far if you hit them in the same place where you're hitting them anyway. I mean, you're an accurate chunk one. Of course. Obviously, but that's why I say you've got a while.

Then you deal with a rib that's like a two by four. Yeah. It's just a different. It's super thick height. The ribs is half the distance of what the ribs are themselves. So they say if a buffalo looks at you and the ribs are all like curved, If a buffalo, so if a buffalo's broadside, it's like this. And if he turns and looks at you, the ribs all close up.

So it's just like a shield down that side. It's like solid bone. Yeah. So you have to have something like that. Yeah. And a heavy arrow that's going to push through there. And that seat, that's right thing. Look, I'm sure if enough people shoot a friggin' expandable broad out of buffalo,

someone's going to kill one brilliantly. Yeah. But to consistently penetrate and kill a buffalo. Yeah. That's where that single bevel is key too Because it's pushing off that bone And it's still getting through there Even when that's essentially sealed up

When it's a slightly... I used to always... It's rotating. Yeah. For a two-blade broadhead to split a rib So pretend my fingers are a rib It only has to split a rib that wide Right.

For a two-blade broaded to pit through there And then let's pretend these are a more solid Four-blade broaded For it to split a rib It's got to open a rib that wide. Is that why the bleeders are so thin to take into consideration a rib? And then I've always liked micro-diameter shaves because I've shot animals before and it was a buffalo in this case, but it was back when we shot frigging all aluminium arrows and they're a lot thicker.

And it was a broken arrow because of the way that it went into the buffalo, the broadhead lodged in the far side and it snapped. And I remember pulling the arrow out. and the rib was held so tightly on the arrow that there was nothing in front of it and it was hard to get the arrow out. And I kept thinking, micro-diaminar sharps also make that distance

where it's easier for them to slide through a wound channel. Well, here's an example. Cam and I shoot the exact same poundage and we basically have a similar draw length and when we're shooting in my backyard and he uses the micro-diameter arrows, in the actual target itself his was going at a solid

three or four inches deeper than my hours were that was when I was using the carbon ones which it's a little bit different because the carbon does give you a lot of friction when you're impacting foam I think there were five mil weren't they? Yes and yours are four so yeah you got a millimeter of friction

over 30 you know 20 but also you were using the FMJs the deep sixes right No. Oh, at that time? At that time? That might have been. And they slide a little bit of slides better, especially through foam. So it's not perfectly, but there's no denying that a thinner arrow is going to get more penetration. Yeah. It's also going to drift through the wind less for sure. Yeah.

It's going to have less resistance to wind. And you were, I remember thinking that like, man, should I switch over? Because this is, you were getting a good three or four inches deeper, both shooting the same poundage. And my draw length is actually an inch longer than yours. Yeah. I'm like, this is kind of crazy. Isn't it fun tweaking and getting everything as good as you can? Without turning it into a rifle.

Yeah. We just keep tweaking and tweaking what we've got. And it's all for a more peaceful kill. Yeah. And to be more consistent at killing game, as peaceful as possible. Well, also, as good as the Hoyt that I shot this year, which is the Hoy that you shot last year, as good as that bow is,

you were saying that your new one is so much better that you would be a little freaked out showing your old one, which is crazy. Because they're making me, I can't show the new ones of like for my little daily videos. They got to shoot my old one and I'm like, I'm going to shoot this fucking bow.

Which is so crazy that they're able to do that every year to consistently make these incremental improvements that just like this year, the bow that I'm shooting this year is better than the bow I shot last year. And the bow I shot last year, I was like, damn, holy, it's incredible.

And then I got the new one. I was like, oh. And it's so dead in the hand. When the shot breaks, it feels no vibration. It just, it just fires off so beautifully. It's so quiet. And yours is quieter. Like, every year, there's just a titch.

Just a little bit better. I did notice that, like, standing down range. And like, your bow's super quiet still. But then that's on another level again. where it's like I got nothing here in this coming. It's crazy. That's where I'm like I put thought into having all that weight because in my head a heavier bow is going to be quieter,

a heavier arrow is going to be quieter. Those veins, that low profile, four veins, those AE, they're fly quieter. It's always about what's going to make a more effective killer. Yeah. You know, because the more effective you are, the more peaceful that death is for the animal. And that's the only,

motivation. I'm not big on target. I don't really care about stuff like that. It's just about hunting. And that's what this discussion and this tonight, basically every discussion we've had at camp has been about bow hunting and equipment essentially. Yeah. And the hunt and butchering animals and the meat. And I do want to, I do want to say that we took our meat in to get processed at Franz there in Evanston, Wyoming, great people, great family-owned business. So nice. They do an amazing job. do an amazing job. They're snack sticks. They're everything they do. But it's awesome that. We weighed the meat. That's a big pride I have and like it's I kill for the meat. I mean that's you know it's it's yes it's a challenge but this is what I live off of. And same with you guys.

I know this. But so getting that meat weighed and I had 386 pounds of hanging meat in there. They said that's the heaviest quartered out bowl they've had. That just tells me that we did a great job cleaning it and you had very similar you had 326 without the the backdrops and the tenderloin so we had essentially and that just to me that's a good sign that we took every piece of edible meat off those animals your your ball is so clean that i could take a photo from inside the cavity out for the chest those photos are incredible you that photo was clean i wish james could take photos like that but he's just not up to the task yeah it's like it is an endless discussion of like tweaking and constantly trying to improve every single aspect of bow hunting everything from

releases i'm always fucking around with different releases no you're like i'm i got the wise guy you're i'm a never shot better this is what i'm using this is a perfect one for auntie it's just like wait i told you i started getting a little punchy i started getting a little and then i switched to that on x clicker i got i got a lot of animals in my studio that have died by punching oh yeah Plenching super effective. Well, you're in a rush. The thing is like you're so calm under. Also, I think there's a real benefit to having the kind of cardio that you have.

I think you're able to keep your heart rate low. I really do believe that because I think you, your cardio is so fucking insane that your control over your heart rate is way better than most people. And I think also you have so much more experience. than most people shooting animals and especially like great animals and even long distances. Like you said, you shot that beautiful elk in Colorado. Like, how far was that? I didn't say.

It was a good distance, but a reasonable distance for a ban of your caliber. But I think you can stay calm where some people, they're going to flinch when they know it's going to go off. It's the anticipation. You don't budge. I saw the video of you shooting that elk. and it's just, everything's just rock solid. And the idea that you can't do that, that's the other thing about like this mentality

that it has to be a surprise shot. This is another mind fuck that people go back and forth with. And you know, you have guys like Kyle Douglas and Tim Gillingham who do what they call command shoot. Right. So they shoot just like you shoot a rifle

where you stay steady and you slowly squeeze the trigger and you make it go off when the pin is over the target. And there's people that'll tell you you cannot do that. Right. And the only reason they tell you that is because people flinch. And they anticipate it and they flinch.

But if, Gillingham always says that it's a mental strength issue. That it's just, it's just you have to stay calm and keep it together. But you clearly, look, how many fucking championships is that guy won? Yeah, I know. And you could say all day he's doing it wrong.

Like, no, he won. He did it right. He won. he's winning. Did he win the wrong way? I mean, I've seen his groups at 120 yards. They're bonkers. He's shooting a baseball size group at 120 yards.

It's like, you can't say that's wrong. No. It's just there's no right way. The right way to do it is does it work? Yeah. Is it consistent? Can you repeat it? Yeah.

I do think there's a difference between tournament shooting where the paper and it's not moving and you got as much time as you want. I think that's different than hunting. Yeah. But then you got guys like Levi. Morgan who hunts with a hinge yeah and he's one of the best ever yeah I don't like thinking about it I I I well you know I I point to Adam he's killed so much he uses the wise guy yeah right and why do you why don't you shoot a back 10 tomorrow the wise guy works for me caliper index finger

works for me and I don't have a process I just I just do it and that's why I don't like thinking about it because if I start thinking about it like I'm like I'm like oh I know. But it's just like my finger's already sitting on the trigger and it's really not, it's not even the tip of my finger. It's just that. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just the role in it. But it's also not squeezing. You know, it's like I'm solid on the animal. Yeah. Everything's lined up without saying any of that to me. And it's just, dude, if you're shooting Vegas, if you're shooting those, those three targets and you're doing that over and over again, that is such a mind fuck. that is such a mind fuck

of you're you this wins this loses yeah this wins this loses right that is so different than hunting yeah it's so it's also it's not moving and you're not moving and you're on a line and you have the exact same distance as everybody else

it's a totally different it's like free throws versus shooting in an actual basketball game right where you're running around and moving and you have to exactly yeah that's the difference right I started shooting at home when I'm practicing. So I shoot and I'll have a dot or a line on the target.

But I'll take that away and just have a blank area on the target. And I'll shoot more like an animal. Like when you don't have a nice crease or a puff of hair or a different color to shoot at, I like doing that. I think it's really good training as well because it's very similar to an arrow. And it's like, I'm looking there and you've got to really concentrate to see where the arrow hits too. And obviously, when you put one arrow in, you've got somewhere else to aim. But it's like, it's a very interesting test on yourself because an animal doesn't have a beautiful big black dot where you're here.

Right. Isn't that interesting too that once you shoot an arrow into a spot, even if it's like a long distance, you start grouping where that arrow is. Yeah. Because you're looking at that arrow. Right. That's the mind fuck. It's like you're looking at the target, but you're really looking at that one very specific dot where that arrow is. And somehow another one, there's an arrow already there. it tends to make you more accurate.

Yeah, for sure. It's weird. Yeah. It's weird. It's like you're looking, you want the arrow to go where that other arrow is instead of like, if you have a target, like an elk target, a foam target, and you know, there's the ring that you really can't see at like 75 yards. You don't see.

But you know where it is. You know, you know where the leg is. And once an arrow goes into a spot, the other arrows want to go right there. Well, that's why, like in the tournaments, you want to be the last shooter because you got an arrow to aim at. And that's why in those tournaments, like what Levi does, they'll shoot all black, fletch, black knock, black arrows, because they don't want to give anybody else something to aim at. That's so crazy. Yeah.

But that's because it makes a huge difference. Right. You got something to focus on and put your pin on? Right. Way different. That's why picking that spot on that animal, bear are tough, bear black, they don't have that crease. Elk are a little easier. They got that crease.

I think a lot of people make the mistake you need too close to the crease because the targets kind of lead us that direction where we saw to or we have known for years. But, you know, these lungs, they go way back. You know, and that was when you blow them up, they are even bigger. But you need to get away from that shoulder. Yeah. Definitely get away. You know, another thing about that is something that I was using for a little bit, but I had to stop using. And it's actually illegal to use in Utah is the Garmin range finder site.

and that one day is going to be the shit. One day it's going to be the shit. Right now it's not. Because now, like, I shot a Neil guy in South Texas, and it was at 52 yards or something like that, somewhere around that range. And I drew back and I hit the button and I didn't get a pin. And I hit the button again and I didn't get a pin.

I'm at a full draw. And this animal's broadside. And I hit it a third time and I finally got a pin. and blap, and I made a perfect shot. And it died. It was perfect pass-through. But the site picture is amazing. Because the site picture is clear glass with a red LED dot.

Exactly where you're going to shoot. Yeah. That is the shit. And the range is built in. So if it one day, they're going to get it perfect. Like right now it's not perfect. I've had problems in my back. yard. On my backyard shooting at a foam target where there's no variables and I couldn't get a range.

I pulled it back, couldn't get a range. And I had one that just didn't work as good. I had one that worked really good. And then my new bow, I got a new site and it didn't work as well. I'm like, what the fuck? I upgraded the software, the whole thing. But if they get it dialed and look, I love Garmin product, I have a Garmin watch on. I love Garmin products. They make awesome products. But that thing is like in concept, it's fucking amazing. Because first of all, it shows you. you the flight of the arrow, right? And it also shows you whether or not you are your level. So instead of having a look at your bubble, when it's level, it indicates it on the screen. And you just have that one dot. You don't have a post. You don't have like a bunch of posts that are sitting in the way.

The site picture is amazing. It's just in the heat of the moment, if you're thinking, I might not get a pin. Like I didn't get a pin. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get a pan. It almost becomes too many turning cogs, right? Yeah, but you have to use a range finder, right? So they made it illegal in Utah last year, and that's why I didn't use it here. Last year, I was still using it.

But after I couldn't use it here, I said, you know what, I don't want that variable. I don't want the possibility of it going wrong. I'm going to set that aside. But I have hope for that product in the future because when it did work, it was incredible. The site picture is so. nice, it's just, it's a red dot, like a pistol.

So you see that dot, it's a game changer. Yeah. And you also, you don't have to do this and put your rangefinder down and then do that. Yeah, you don't have to do it. There's three steps you don't have to do. Yeah. And then the site picture is so much better. But it's just not quite there yet.

The next model is going to have style link. But I think also the thing is people think it makes it too easy. They think some. It's the same aspect Like you just said You already got a range finder on you Right So now it's built into the site

It's better Yeah It's better if it works If it works perfectly Because to be And Hoyt has one Right They have an actual

Hoyt model Garmin site That Hoyt actually Hoit actually turned Zach actually turn me on to it Because Zach from Hoyt used it But to not have to do this And rank

Like It's just gonna make More effective kills You're gonna have better shots It's going to be less wounded animals. It's not going to make you, it's not an unfair advantage. It's all the same things that you have

with a bow and a rangefinder and a sight tape, except it's all built into the site. It's streamlined. It's streamlined. And it would, if it's done right, I think, in the future, it's going to be the best possible. If it's done, it has to be just, better than it is now.

Yeah. But once it is better than it is now, it's going to be the solution. Because you won't have to do this thing like this. And also the animals don't. And also if the animal moves, you just hit it again. Yeah. And you get a perfect dot again. It moves off, you hit it again.

It might be where they don't allow that, just like they don't, like in some states, not sightlights and things like that. Well, they don't allow it here now. Yeah. It used to be legal in Utah. So regardless of how good it gets, it's maybe it won't ever be approved for Bowhunting because they want to keep it more traditional. Right.

I shot three animals with it, and it was awesome. Yeah. It was awesome. No, four, because I shot two white tail, a neel guy, and an elk with it. It was awesome. But the one time that it didn't work with an eel guy, where it two times, I arranged it, and no pin, no pin. And then finally got a pin.

And then this is all why this animal is out in the open, feeding, and I'm 52 yards away at full draw. And it's like, come on, this is. And I'm shooting 90 pounds. I'm fucking holding this thing on. Come on. My friend Campbell's got one of it. It's failed on him a couple of times, so it's turned me off.

It's not ready yet. Yeah. But when it is ready, I hope they don't make laws to outlaw it because it's just going to lead to less wounded animals. It's going to lead to better. It's still hard to make a 65-yard shot is a 65-yard shot. It's fucking hard to do. But if you have a better sight picture, and I think it's a better site picture, with that red dot, it's just there's nothing in the way

it messes with you and there's less of a step you don't have to do that two steps that that you know and you don't have to pin gap yeah and the other thing about it is that I really like is that if you do have a moving animal

there is the option of pressing a button and you get fixed points so you have a bunch of dots and there's like green red green red green red green red So you have 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or whatever you have it set at. That's a nice option to do. It's just not quite ready yet.

But that's the thing. Like, oh, is it an unfair advantage? I still think it's hard to make an archery shot on an animal. Yeah. It's hard. And anything that lets you make a more effective shot that's going to have less wounded animals, like say if you're at full draw and you have a spot hog, why, like if you have a hog father, like the.

single pin like you used to shoot right yeah and an animal moves and you have to kind of guess a little and so you hold high because you think it moved off about another five yards so you go over like a little a little higher especially a heavy arrow like you've got there's a lot of variables yeah this thing it's like you put in your arrow weight you put in the speed of the arrow you put in all these variables inside the program and the battery lasts forever it's just not quite there yet all the updates changes new tweaks maybe maybe sticking with the old that's I've always used like you have you know I mean maybe that's the answer but it's fun to discuss it yeah but like look at you you went from fixed blades to the carniform because you found out it's more effective I'm slow to change I mean

I shot blazers for a long time and then you know or no I shot five inch veins for a long time because I was like I'm not shooting those little blazers five inch and then it took forever to switch to the Blazers, and then shot those for a long time, and then shot the same trocars for a long time. I don't like changing. It's hard to change what you know and what works. And what's been working. But it doesn't mean that's the best.

No. But, yeah, it's hard to change. Well, once you have confidence, and you try something new, then the mind fuck comes in. Like, oh my God, what did I do? One of the things that I was thinking when I shot my elk yesterday, the only thing that I think could have gone wrong is, What if a blade broke off?

Yeah. Because I had a blade break off on a rage, hypodermic, no-collar. I had one blade break off once. And I was like, what if it breaks off? But I saw Lusk archery did one of those durability tests with that G5T2, and it performed amazing. Shot it through the MDX, shot it through steel. The tips, the ends of the tips got snapped off when I shot it through steel.

But I'm like, but that's steel. You know, that's not bone. It's a different thing. Yeah. So I was pretty confident. And it worked out great, but the mind fuck where we're sitting there in the rain for two hours, like, what if a blade broke off?

No. Because you don't know. Whereas if I had like, you know, some like real stout fix blade, that wouldn't even be in the equation. It would be, did it do its job? Yeah. You know, did it hit where I thought it hit? Did it go through the vitals?

So it's like there's so many different things that could lead to you mind fucking yourself if you change something. And people will listen to this and be like, those guys are idiots. Why don't they use that? I mean, that's just, that's the beauty of it. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's like we care. We're passionate about it. Just like the listeners will be passionate about what they use. Yeah. That's great. And it's fun tinkering. Like when this is your passion, it's fun tinkering. Well, some guys like to use like seven pins.

Yeah. They made that sight because of me. Yeah. I mean, I said a spa hog, they had five. Went out to 60, 20 through 60. And I'm like, I, I, need more pins. You know, I was hunting. I wanted to shoot further, at least practice further. And they're like, okay, we'll make you seven, but probably nobody's going to buy it. And

the went mental. Yeah, it was the seven deadly pins. And it's play on seven deadly sins. And they sold, I don't know how many, a lot. But now it's, it then it's switched to the single pan. And now it's like the, the single post with three pins or you have the option or that, which option I? Yeah. So yeah, it's, Once they started to have immovable pins with our archer's advantage, that changed everything, right? That made, it made people, I think, it made me, I can't speak for everybody, a lot more accurate. I could dial in the yardage and I could hold right on instead of pin gap or, you know, like it'll hold high, whatever. And I could, and I didn't have those seven pins blocking my side window, blocking the animal that I was shooting at.

I just had the one and I just hold, I could just dial right on. 62 yards hold right on. That made me way more accurate. than having something else. Yeah, but there's a lot. There's a lot, yeah. It's a, I don't know, I can't wait till the next time we all can hunt together. It's been an amazing trip.

I love you guys. I love you guys too. I've missed you. I'm glad to. No, the second I seen you, I'm like, holy shit, it's been too long. I know, I just think that I remember Hoyt telling me, yeah, we want you to, maybe, do you want to go hunt with Adam Green Tree? He's like the Cameron Haynes of Australia. I'm like,

that said, Pete, doesn't run. He's really good looking. But we had great hunts, and this is no different. And of course, Joe, I mean, you know, you're like a brother to me. I love you. Thank you.

I just, and I do want to thank Tom Land in Wild Country for this opportunity. Yeah. They're awesome, Pete. If, you know, we talk about coming next year and, like, there's no guarantee that it's going to happen. So I'm just in,

Things change. But, man, just feel blessed that we had this hunt. I want to thank Tom and it's just an opportunity for this year. And I feel very grateful for you guys too. Thank you, brother. I feel the same way about you guys. Thanks for the discussion. All right.

A lot of fun. I'm right.