Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 096 - Bow Disciples: James Visser

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

Join us for a discussion about bowhunting with James Visser of the Bow Disciples. James and Cam cover effective strategies for bowhunting, preferred hunting gear and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Bow Disciples: https://www.instagram.com/bowdisciples/  Follow James Visser: https://www.instagram.com/jamesvisser/ Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Timestamps: 0:00:00 Meet James Visser: His Goals for Bow Disciples 0:07:18 We Need More Bowhunters 0:12:34 Bow or Rifle Hunting First? 0:14:40 Bow Disciples Content Strategy 0:16:41 Bow Shoot Record Goals 0:23:26 James’ Bow Setup 0:28:20 An Effective Range for Hunting 0:31:18 Ad Break 0:33:20 Determining Range While Hunting 0:38:17 Spot & Stalk Hunting 0:44:52 Legends in the Hunting Industry 0:50:33 A Different Gear for Hunting 0:57:27 The Key to James’ Hunting Success 01:05:02 James’ Dream Bow Disciples Guests 01:10:22 Learning From Other Archers 01:20:20 Haters in the Industry 01:25:11 How James Met Cam 01:30:32 Double Summits & Running in the Dark 01:35:50 Working with Companies & Sponsors 01:43:27 Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving My Blood so I am relentless. All right. Keep Hamry Collective with James Visser.

He iser. Bo Disciples. Yeah. Is that right? I almost said bow hunting discipline. That's close, yeah. So I've also been known as Jason from Bow Disciples. Jason from Bo. Who's that? Is that something?

Basically what happened is my good friend Josh, I was going to do a co-lab with him at Total Archery Challenge and I was going to go shoot with them. And then their podcast ahead of time, he goes, yeah, I'm going to shoot with Jason from Bo Discipline. He blew both names and now it's like a running joke and he did it twice. It was unintentional. Yeah, but it's hilarious. Now it's a running joke we have. Gotcha. Yeah. All right. Well, We'll just, we can either go with that or just go with the boat discipline or disciples. Oh, see, now I messed you up. I know.

Yeah, it's all good. Well, tell me about where did, I mean, I've watched some of your videos. The first one I saw was probably the one. A lot of people saw about, I think you're mimicking how I shoot the trigger punching. Yeah. Yeah. So is that where it started or had you already been going at that time? Yeah.

So we started the channel actually in 2018. That video didn't go crazy till like probably 22. So we've been going a long time, but just on YouTube. And then we started putting stuff everywhere else. And, you know, just had a really steady, like it took us exactly one year to hit a thousand subscribers to the day. So from 18 to 19, then we went to like three. And then it was like six, 10.

And then this year we've got like up to almost 100,000. So it's been a big growth. And then we've also grown equally as fastest, the last. couple years on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok as well. You'll try to be really well-rounded. Very engaged, huh? Very engaged, yeah. It's relentless.

I know we talked about it in the car a little, but like, it's, I love making content, and I love shooting bows, and I love bow hunting. So it just works out. There's nothing I would rather be doing than what I'm doing. So I just go full steam. Well, you're kicking ass. I mean, your videos are entertaining. I like them.

You have fun. yeah um what's like what's the goal i so you've been grinding since 2018 you're doing great yeah the following is growing making cool stuff what's the goal just keep spreading the good word of bow hunting and archery yeah that's it really i mean for me the goal is to try to i always say i want more people to shoot archery and just know that you can have fun shooting bows like i think what i'm best at in life is deer hunting spot and stock and I know we've talked about that a long time a lot this trip I'm a very good hunter at certain types of hunting but I don't double down on that too much in the content those videos come through sometimes but I'm also I think a pretty good advocate of you can

shoot bows and have a riot like and I think that's something that not too many people are nailing right now in the current climate and like the stuff that we were doing today how could you not watch check. Oh, that's so fun, you know. Yeah, that was good. Or when I go shoot with a different guest that I've shot with, it's always, or my normal group, it's always hilarious, high energy, a lot of fun. If we break an arrow, like, it was staying in the mix, like, it's funny, you know, like, because I think that anyone we can get into archery, whether or not they hunt or not,

I guarantee if they're a fan of bo disciples, like they're going to be an advocate of hunting, or at least an ally, whether or not they do it. Right. And I think nowadays with so much legislation kind of being pushed in different states to get hunting canceled or ban, and they start with predators. But trust me, eventually they'll want to get deer and elk canceled if they can too. I think the more people we can get on board, the better. And that's why I've always respected what, you know, you do and Joe does bringing so many people in. And I'm trying to do that and say, hey, it's okay if you never want a bow hunt.

Yeah. You can just shoot for fun. Right. To me, yeah, growing the sport of archery. And then obviously now that I do it for a living, it's like obviously I want to continue to grow that and expand the revenue as well. Yeah, you know, I think that's a good point.

You know, it's not necessarily we need more bow hunters, but being an archer and being an ally is what we need. And that's not everybody's going to hunt. I mean, killing animals probably isn't for everybody. It can be pretty intense, but there's nothing wrong with you shooting arrows down range and listening to people and be like, Yeah, I don't hunt, but, you know, I know somebody who does, and they have, they do it the right way.

They got a lot of, actually, I want to comment on that too. I kind of box myself in. But one thing is a pet peeve of mine is people, when they say somebody doesn't hunt for their right reasons. And I'm like, to me, I just said it, but for people that are doing it the right way, but who's to say, what's the right way? Yeah. That's the thing I have a problem with. Yeah. You know what? I used to be kind of like maybe 10 years ago or something.

Because I shot my first animal with a bow in 1998. Like I've been doing it a long time. How old were you then? It's five. Five. Five. Five. I shot a cotton tail with a bow.

Really? You dude, I literally, I'm not kidding. Like I used to shoot longbows when I was like three. I've been doing this my whole life. So when people, I used to do that though where I'd kind of be like, oh, well, if you hunt high fence, it doesn't can. And now I'm like, I haven't done high fence. I don't know that I would, but I'm not, as long as you're hunting legally and to the best

of your ability is like making good shots and being ethical, who am I to be like, I'm the only one who can say what's right. Right. Public land on the weekends only. Over the counter tags on the ground. Like, you know, I kind of used to do that, like 10 years ago, like being just like a hater. But I realize that's so kind of, it's goofy to give yourself like this God complex and being like

my way is correct and yours is wrong right that that's what when people say they don't do it for the right reasons or this guy hunts for the right it's just like who the fuck are you yeah i mean is who is that your call to make but so that's why i like that you explain that too i mean it's uh you know i think we all potentially could hunt for different reasons there's different things that are important to us there's uh different times in our life i mean i know when i was a kid i just wanted to get out and I didn't really think about the reverence of the hunt so much. I just like to be out and shoot. I like to go shoot a stuff. Yeah. Just, you know, and now I'm like, I put a lot of thought into it. I think very deeply about the hunt and what it means to me. So I've changed

myself. So I might, if I was the judgmental type, I might be like, oh, when I first started hunting, that wasn't for the right reason. But at that time of my life, it was absolutely the right reason, because that's what I wanted to do. So it's, yeah, I think we do, we can get kind of trapped into the God complex, as you mentioned. And we're just like, you know, we're so critical of others. Yeah, you can't. I mean, as hunting, there's not that many hunters. I think there's like somewhere around like 13 million hunting licenses.

It's not that many of the population. I think we're at like 350 million or something for the country. is like you cannot be pointing a finger at people that need to be allies and that's why to me like the outreach again of bow hunting's really hard it's impossible you know like especially if you don't have someone who's taught you I was fortunate my dad was bow hunting long before I was born so I was born bow hunting you know and had a great teacher but for guys that you know got into it because they watched your videos or my videos and got into no one to help I'm like I could see a lot of those guys eventually like kind of phasing out of hunting because it was like

much harder than you anticipate it. But guess what? They're still going to be allies and sign the ballot measures and all the stuff that we need. So I've just never really kind of got the... I've never been on board with that there's too many people hunting. In fact, I think like we need more people to be on board

or at least have an understanding of it. Yeah. And I mean, nobody likes to see a bunch of people in where they're hunting. No, of course not. I get that, I get that too. But yeah, I just don't think that just so, like and have hunting to myself that I'd be wanting to give up the allies that we need out

there and people who understand hunting and fellow hunters. I mean, where do you get a better brotherhood than another bow hunter? You know what I mean? So it's, yeah, I mean, I get it. I used to hate seeing a boot track when I was hunting. Another boot track. I'd be like, oh, my God, I wanted this to myself. So I'd 100% understand it. But also, I think, you know, you know, know, we do need to look at the big picture and what it means as a community as a whole. And yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't have all the answers, but I do know that I'm trying to fight for what I love, and that's Bowhoney.

And it takes, you know, we have some organizations out there who are, you know, have our best interest in mine or going after these ballot measures. We've got that big one in Colorado right now. That's a key one because as we know, they go after the little hanging front. They go after the lions. Bears. Right. And those are Bobcats in California.

Yeah. Well, and lions in California. You've been gone since the 90s. Yeah. You can't even kill lions somewhere else and take it there to your house if you live there. Yeah. And they did get Bobcats banned like two years ago. So you can't do Bobcats.

They almost got bears. Howl to wildlife is great. And I know you've worked with them, but like so good of just knowing what we're up against, you know. And without strength in numbers, you toast. Yeah. You know, we've done, I've done polls before on the channel. on the channel like of how many of the viewers just shoot bows versus hunt and it's like i think it's like 30 percent just shoot archery but all 30 percent like we'll watch the hunting videos we do too

and comment like i don't hump but this was such like a cool film or you guys did a good job like they understand it because they're watching the content that's what i'm saying you can't just preach to the choir all the time no and like even this podcast i love that you have people that are not in our space on yeah like yeah for the fans is probably really cool for like when you had Waddell on that was awesome to me and people will be stoked we're talking but we're kind of not really reaching too many new people no but when you have Paul skeins on yeah you know you're reaching new people and we try to do the same like I have a mountain biker coming on soon different stuff so yeah that's a good way to reach people too it's good too and I don't I mean I don't

rifle hunt myself and haven't for many years but I go out and take people out rifle hunting all the time I just love to hunt. And I know how it works with archery is normally you start with a rifle. You're like, okay, whatever, you want more of a challenge or you want a longer season or, you know, with the archery, you can see more animals sometimes because there's less hunters. So you transition to a bow hunter, but then it's really hard. And some people like, that's a short-lived little journey. And they're like, I'm not killing shit with the sink. I'm going back to rifle hunting.

So I try not to be judgmental on what anybody uses. You mentioned high fence, but, you know, whether it's recurve, crossbow, I don't count crossbow as a bow, but that's besides a point. Bow tradition or compound bow, a rifle, muzzle odor. It doesn't matter. It does, I don't really care. I love taking people out, rifle hunting. I take my son out.

I take new hunters out. It's just something that it never gets old being out there, just being a hunter. And so I think. you know we just need to I think just be more accepting of of it sounds easy and cliche but just be more accepting of others and just realize we're all on the same team essentially facts yeah I mean as long as you're doing stuff legally like I said I mean it it's dope yeah and I totally agree I think you know I kind of learned backwards like because I said I only bow on it like my whole life ever since I was tiny.

So I never really had the transition of like going from rifle to bow. Like I only ever knew the struggle stick. Right. So for, you know, and I think if you can if you can learn archery first. Oh, man. And then like draw a rifle tag once in a while. Yeah. I mean, you're going to slay.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. My buddy Tim had that point of view because him and my dad were talking about the same topic. And my dad was like, oh, yeah, people, you know, start. rifle and then moved to bow just like you said and Tim goes Tim's a newer hunter and he was like honestly I think if you can learn the opposite way it's like probably faster for that learning curve if you can learn bow first I just know like with my kids I started them with the rifle because bow hunting is so freaking hard I didn't want to burn them out and and be like no success so you want

them to have a little success so I took them both you know there's pictures over there but bear hunting in Alaska was both their first hunts because there's no age limit in Alaska. And so Tanner and Trout both killed Bear up there first. But yeah, it's like you want them to taste a little success. Then they're like, okay, this is what it's about. I can work hard, make a rifle shot and get the animal killed and then move into the archery. That's normally how it works. But if you can somehow find success with the bow early, man, you're going to be a great hunter. Or just trudged through shit for like five or six years, but keep going, you know. That's brutal. It's brutal, but that's what I've always loved about archery is like I really, really like the brutal stuff.

Like even, I've drawn some really good hunts and done some really, really top tier hunts, but something about those like just real grungy, like not good hunts. Like, I don't know, something about them like probably like hunting here in Oregon. I'm sure there's plenty of hunts like that. Yeah, it's tough. When you pull them off, there's no other feeling like that. For sure. You go, that shit was impossible. Yeah, you know.

But got it done. That's, there's nothing better. Yeah, it's pretty great. So tell me, so you got to shout out, you have a podcast too, right? Yeah, I barely say that. Like I do it once in a while. It does pretty good views on YouTube and our studios like, it's pretty slick. It's not this studio, but it's like well done.

Brianna designed it. And we got dope guess, but the consistency is just like not there. Because I'm like you. I want to do it in person. Yeah. It's like, you know how it is. You don't always have a guest lined up. So you found like your recipe to success basically is traveling, making videos with people

when you can meet up like attack or you said, did you go to Spokane and do something with Josh? Or where was that? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been up to Spokane Valley Archery shot with Josh and Tim. They do a really, they do a really good archery podcast.

And I know you listen to it. And yeah, just double down on the collaborations. That's a newer thing though. Like we really have a solid crew. Right. It's like my buddy Matt, Brianna, my dad, my friend Nick and myself. And then we got my friend Scott and Chuck. Like we got kind of a lot of guys that are like frequently in videos.

So we got like a really good home team. But it's so fun, I think, because I like to watch golf YouTube. And they do a lot of collaborations like between channels. Yeah. And I was like, dude, I love that. Like I love the concept of that. Right. Because I want to know like how's this golfer going to do again.

this guy. Like, you know, you want to see it. And now in archery, I'm like, that's what I want to do for a while. Yeah. So like doing stuff with you or Josh Beaumar or the guys up in Spokane or like, hopefully Waddell and T-Bones. Like, just different people. And I want to go up and shoot with the best too. Like, I want to go shoot with Paige. I want to shoot with Levi. Like, and I never want to lose. You know, and hopefully not the world championship. You're a good shot. I know we've talked about it on the left turn shoot you guys will see it but uh james is a great archer for sure we've had a lot of a lot dude a lot of fun how many arrows do you think we've shot together now it's a lot dude hundred at least yeah for sure some tough shots i mean yesterday you went after the record so the record

i think was 180 180 yards hitting a balloon you know not not a giant balloon either just like yeah Yeah. So you got that. And then we're like, we got to get over 200. So we got the truck back to 201. And shooting pretty damn good at 201 yards, had a good spot to hold up on the hill. But putting the arrows pretty much peppering that thing, and we both ended up breaking the balloon twice on film. So that would be fun. Well, supposedly on film. We'll see if this fuckhead actually got it. And I know we talked about it. And I think, you know, At some point, we're going to have to try to shoot really far together. That's going to be fun. Might as well, whatever the world record is.

We got to beat it, right? Might as well we beat it. Dude Perfect did a half mile. But was that a huge balloon. I don't know if we were. Was it a world record? Or just like. It's in their video.

I don't know if it's like legit. Yeah, because I think the world record has to be on a Fita face, but I'm not sure. So maybe we got to look it up and legit like have Guinness. come out. I did a, I tried to do, so Truitt had the world record pullups. He's got a couple more in right now for the application. I think he's going to probably, he'll get one more, but I put one in for fastest marathon running with a bow. I was going to carry a bow and they denied it. Really? Yeah, that would have been a sick one. But we'll have to figure out how to get a world record and just make it happen just long distance dude it would be fun is to break it multiple times too yeah you know what i mean

just keep get moving back let's do it yeah we got to do that yeah but uh yeah shot good then today we had another little shooting session and went out there and pretty much all bombs i mean what's our short of shot like 72 or yeah i mean most of them i think that the coop de gra on the last one was shooting off one so one foot draw your bow shoot off one foot foot from 122 yards. Your shot was preposterous, dude. When you shot that, me and James just look at each other, like, what was that? It was probably my most accurate shot on that far target all day.

That was your best shot of the week, the last two days. For sure, what a shot, dude. Your arrow just disappeared and I was like, that's in the white pretty much. That pin was going everywhere. Oh, dude. Mine wasn't even staying on the bail. You know who wouldn't have been impressed? Joel.

I've done that last year. There was no shot IQ on that one. Yeah. Shout out to Joel. No, it was just the hammer pin floating by, boom. Yeah.

You basically actually, bat, bat, you all, I think I heard the two stroke. Probably did. You know, yeah.

But hey, got it in there. Gosh, that was fun though. And then, yeah, we did a few tough shots. That one under the neck.

That one's going to bother me for a while. Because if I just stood up, it would have been good. This one was at 96. But there was another target at 90, right? He was trying to, yes, six yards close or is it at 89, actually, but you were trying to shoot under the neck of the mountain lion into the bedded white tail. So you hit the neck of the mountain line, which is six yards close or seven yards closer maybe, and shooting from 96, so,

and you were on your knee. So I was thinking, you know what, if I just get an arrow in the buck, that's a win. I won this one. So I went, held right on the lion, couldn't even see the head of the white tail and just went into the head of the white tail just arcing over hey but chest not checkers you shooting first yeah without that I wouldn't have known well you know what sucks too where I hit it in the ear had I have been standing I guarantee I would have cleared over because I would have been like three feet higher yeah you think so yeah so anyway but that was a that that was a cool shot cool cool fun tough shot and no one kneeling walking out from the tree we did some scenarios you know yeah one another tough one was standing, draw your bow standing, get down onto your knees at the bow still

at full draw. And what was that like? How far was that shot? 78, I think. Something like that. Small target too, small pig. On the pig. Yeah.

Good one. Another one's behind the tree. Come to full draw. Step out and shoot in three seconds. Yeah. How far was that one? Like 90 something. It was an elk, right?

Like 98 or something. Yeah. And those three seconds go by. They do. They do. And it's not like you're going to take a shot in three seconds at 90s. No, dude. But we got,

we hit foam. I think you were. Our shots weren't even bad on that. No, I think yours was high shoulder. Yeah, front front. You were kind of like middle body,

like last rib area. Yeah. Would have killed it. Yeah. Your shot was actually probably a better hunting shot. Mine would have hit the shoulder and bounced off. But just so, I mean,

so that's the thing, the great thing about archery is just sitting there talking about shots. Yeah. It's like we're not hunting. We're shooting our bow. And how fun was it? Oh, it was a blast. I mean, James was chuckling behind the camera.

We're having fun. It was great, you know. And I always say, too, yeah, what we were doing, none of those shots, like, for the most part, like, none of those are hunting shots we would take. But guess what we were doing? We were shooting our bow a lot. And guess what that does? It makes you a lot better at 30 yards. Just reps, baby.

The more you shoot. Reps. Yeah. Yeah. And also, I do like putting a little pressure on them because, you know, that's what hunting. is. I'm, I'm, everybody says it. I'm definitely better hunting than just screwing around. And I think some people say that, like, they can't shoot good, but they're like, well, on an animal. Yeah. But actually, on an animal, I am actually, but whatever. I just can't, I have a hard time focusing, but that,

making a competition like today, it makes you focus. It makes you focus. Yeah, because you're like, I don't want to lose this. That's a practice I need for sure. Sure. I mean, that's the best. because we shoot every day, but it's sometimes I'm just out getting reps in. I mean, I'm not even whatever. You're not that focused on the pin. Just shooting the bow. That's why I think shooting groups is really good too, like because you can, I compete with myself.

I'll shoot like four or five arrows at a group and I'll go, I can shoot tighter than that. Yeah. Because it's over and over shoot groups. And for me, it's like addicting, just stand there and see how close I can get five arrows. I don't care if it's 20 yards, 40 yards, 80 yards, 100 yards, like whatever. but let's try to shoot tight, you know. Yeah, I like it.

Yeah. So how did you, like your setup, I mean, completely night and day different from my setup. You know, I shoot Hoyt. Obviously, you shoot Bowtech. How did you select what you're using? I mean, what kind of process was that to get your bow and arrows and. Yeah. You know, I'm not like a huge setup nerd.

I never really have been. For me, I only really am super keen on a few things. One is axle to axle length. I like to shoot bows for my hunting bow. that are like 34 is my favorite 3334 is my favorite I don't want to shoot anything shorter than 32 personally and then I I like faster bows generally they have more holding weight so you can't get lazy on them you got to keep them pulled back and I think I just stay more locked in than if a bow I can just sit there and like it's I'm not having to put in any effort so kind of an aggressive

bow that axle to axle and then for me I it's really, really important to have the peep and the site housing, like have a perfect fitment. Like, that's so huge for my accuracy. And aside from that, I think people miss that. Oh, I think people miss it all the time. Yeah, I think that's something that hasn't been talked about enough, is that having that peep and that site housing match up.

Oh, yeah. Because then you know, you know, we use a peep site. I have a nose button. I have a kisser button. But I don't know if anything's as important is matching that. It's just so easy to make sure. sure you're dialed in, you know, on matching that, those two circles. Yeah. I mean, a lot of times I'll shoot someone else's bow and right away. And granted, everyone's eyes and anchors are a little bit

different, but so many times I think people's peeps are way too big. So like there's a ton of daylight around the outside. And I'm like, that's so much room for air. Yeah. You might think it's like perfectly in the center. But how do you know when it's like a ring, you know? So aside from those things, I just try to shoot a lot and like get real comfortable with my setup. I think I personally think a lot of people chase their tail around way too much and like are chasing gear to get better rather than just like shooting a lot more. Then what broadheads are you using? So this year I use a beast broadheads and two blade expandables. But the last probably 10 years I used rage, usually tripan.

And then before that I used the mother. with the screw-on cap for like before that what are those remember the just the OG muzzies with three blades oh yeah yeah yes I use those for a long time and then rage which I loved and then I really like these beasts now so I've been I've been running those this season then what arrows oh I've been running DCA arrows Deer Crossing Archery um have you how did you select those I never even heard of them you know they sent me something to try and they're like they're way cheaper. They're like a quarter of the price of like a standard,

like whatever in Easton or Victory or Black or Gold Tip or whatever. And I was like, I don't try them, you know, and they fly like really well. You know, and I was like, okay, well, I'll run these. So I just been running them. And they're really good arrows, man. And they're like, I run the standard diameters, but they make all different diameters.

But yeah, I love them. So like arrow, I usually run about 420 grams. I don't change my arrows like a half a ride for hunting or target shooting other than the really light ones I brought for 200 yards, which are like 350, 60 grains. They're flying good. Yeah, fast, you know, fast and low. Because what, you were at like 70 on your tape, right? Wasn't I like 45? Yeah.

Because they're flying so flat. Yeah. My arrows are 491. Yeah. And that was just my elk hunt arrow basically. I use it for everything. So you were probably like, I would guess. It's like two, 70, two 80 feet.

Something like that, yeah. That was probably 3.30 plus. Yeah. So hot, you know. Makes a difference for sure. Yeah. But both the bows were dialed in and laying them in there 200. For sure.

We were peppering that target, dude. And that's such good practice because people will say, they'll look at that and be like, you know, think you're like, that's a hunting shot or something. It's like, no, it's not a hunting shot. It's just great practice because if you do anything technique-wise wrong, you're, missing that fucking block. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Dude, yeah, if you're, like I said, with the peep fitment, if you're not perfectly aligned on everything, your grips consistent, your nose on the string in the same place, your peeps lined up perfect, shot breaks clean, you know, like if you're not doing all those things at 200 yards, your yards sailing that thing

five feet to the right. Yeah. And guess what? Again, like we talked about, that makes your shot at 25 yards a lot easier yeah a lot easier i mean yeah we didn't even get to like under 70 today but if we would have it would have been yeah chip shots and that's and that's what we're preparing for in hunting you know people always ask me you know what's your effective range in hunting not or what how close you need to be and i'm just like or how far do you need to be like 20 yards i'm trying to get 20 yards on every day you do and if i can if i can shoot 200 accurately well then 20 yards they're going to be able to pick a hair for sure yeah i call it t pl top pin lifestyle is my favorite that's all i just want to see how close i can get for sure yeah i love that

about bow hunting i mean like i always i love to get in there tight especially spot and stock um i shot uh my best stock i got a few but probably my best stock was on a muley bedded down i shot him at six yards and he was sleeping what Do you remember what pin you used? Probably top. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, but it was like straight down. You know, unless I'm shooting at like a tiny 12 ring at a tournament.

Yeah. At like nine yards. Yeah. That's different. Like I actually do have to shoot for like 47 or 50 or something. We used to do like there's a three yard shot on this 3D shoot. We used to do here and you had to use your 50 yard pin. That's why I asked.

I didn't know if you had to consciously think about that on that a shot or not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no, it is wild, like how that works. I had an engineer explained it to me. It has to do with the distance between your D-loop and your peep is how you mean. Well, you look at your line of sight's here.

So your arrows below your line of sight. So that's why when it's close, it hasn't even come up yet. Right. So that you have to use that 50 to get it up so you're going to hit. Once it comes and crosses that line of sight, that's when it gets into 20 yards, 30 yards and 40 yards. Into that plane. and everything else.

But yeah, it's, yeah, I mean, most people aren't getting three-yard shots. No. It's not going to come up. But, yeah. That was my best, like, stock. And then I've shot. How did you get that close? Did you take your boots off?

I always do. Yeah. Yeah, I got stocking shoes. Yeah. So that's like my thing. I try to get in really tight. Take a long time, you know. Sometimes I'll glass up a deer and watch them bed up.

And I'll check the weather and be like, well, it's it. In the seven hours, the wind's going to pick up to 10 months. miles an hour, I'll go then. I'll just sit and wading them out, you know, and then go in. And that, that deer was just like, he bedded in like the perfect way. He bedded right at the top of this pyramid hill, winds blown over the pyramid hill. Like, oh, dude, if I get to the top, I thought he would be, but it kind of tripped me out because I'm like, I'm glassing. I'm like, I think you'll be 25 from the top.

I get up there. I'm looking for him. But he's just like sleeping. Right there. Right. I mean, like at the American flag right there. Wow. Yeah, four by four.

Just out, dude. Do you wear face paint or do you wear gloves or put anything on your hand or just kind of try to stay in the shadows? I have a net gator that I love because I spend a ton of time glassing. I get the tricer tripod going. Shout out to tricer. Get the tripod going and I'll sit there for hours in the sun, you know, just glass in the desert. And like I have to have something covering my face in the ears or I'll get burnt up. And then for stock, same thing.

And for shooting, I don't like gloves or stuff on my face to mess with my anchor. But that gator is so thin that it's like it's skin tight. It's nothing, you know. And so I have that like up to here. Sometimes I'll put it usually right below my nose so I can still hit direct to my nose on the anchor. But as far as my hands, no, I won't shoot in gloves, but I will sometimes like paint up my hands. Yeah. That's what I was wondering.

Because when you're trying to get that close to mule deer, they can see the flash of your hands and your face and things like that. It's, yeah, I, you know, once we started filming, it's a little bit. What I learned is that by myself, I can get pretty close. But when I have a cameraman, it's better if I can stay back and shoot that animal, I'm more relaxed at further distance than trying to get two guys within 30 yards. For sure. Or 20 yards.

For sure. You know, I can shoot at 60, be able to keep. communicate with the cameraman and, you know, wait for the animal to be relaxed, take my time, much higher odds. So that's when we started to film, that's when I started to realize, God, I could up my odds by being able to shoot a little further. Dude, for sure. And I think actually as I became over the years more and more knowledgeable about hunting

these deer spot and stock, like when they're, usually they're laying down, you know. Nowadays, I like to get to 40 yards and just say, sit and wait them out five say however long i have to i'll just say wait but i don't want to get within 40 generally yeah the wind the wind can give you up just one little anything and 40 gives you a little more room for air and it's like i i'm gonna pinwheel them at 40 like i'm gonna pinwheel him you can range everything you know so that way when he stands up and walks out you already know okay you walk by that bush it should be about 43 you know like or whatever but yeah i think that's such a good way to hunt and i I learned that actually from Jim Bernworth's show.

He said that that when he stocks him on Big Bucks, he'll post up at 40 and not move in. I still do sometimes. Because sometimes he might have a time constraint or think the weather's going to swap or something. It's like, I might be better being a little more aggressive here. Like the coups I just shot a few weeks ago, I had sat down and was waiting at about 50,

but the guy who was glassing for me had to go to like an important meeting at a bank. So I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to push in there then. Like if I spook him, it's not the end of the world. And I thought I was going to spook him. I really did. And I did, he's like, he's right under a mesquite bush. And I'm like, okay, I see three mesquite bushes.

It was one of them. Come around the first one. I'm like, don't see him. Come around the second one. I see it casting shade. I go, guaranteed, you know. Bro, he's just better right under this tree. Like, and I'm 32 yards.

Was it wide open to him? Pretty much, but I was lucky I had a cactus and a little bush between us. But he could, I mean, he saw me kind of come around the corner and I was like, okay, this is it. Like I got to draw and shoot and I could see luckily which way he was laying. Put the pin right on his front shoulder, drew. And then he like perked up and I'm like, this was a three second shot, get the shot off. Because those coos are fast. Oh, yeah.

They stand up. They're gone. Did he hit him right through the front shoulder? I watch him run off. He does a loop and just tops over. You shot embedded? Yep, 32. It's only the second deer I've shot actually, like, bedded.

Usually I'll wait for him to get up. Yeah. Because a lot of times you can't see the direction they're facing. But in this case, I was fortunate. I could see his orientation. Yeah, and it's a little, it can be weird. Sometimes they'll lay more on the shoulder. Sometimes they're more like on their chest, on their sternum, like straight up.

Sometimes they'll like lean over a little bit. And it changes that angle. when you're trying to study, because I've done that with elk before, shot an elk that was laying down, freaking did not get any penetration. Oh, because the shoulder had it all locked up. Yeah, and it went and he didn't know what the hell happened, so he stood up, I knocked an arrow, quick, shot him again.

But it almost cost me that I almost screwed that up. Yeah, and it does really change that bone configuration when they're laid up. He was kind of, he was laying a little more, like not totally on his side, but like a little bit on his side. And yeah, the shot was, I mean, really, it was a good shot for sure. But yeah, Spot and Stock Hunting, man. It's like something about it. I just love.

I think it's so hard to do. It is hard. Yeah. It is. Have you ever got in close and tried to get one to stand up, throw something over them? I have. I have. So actually, yeah, I've done that several times.

I did it on the coups, actually, because like I said, there was a time constraint. And I'm like, okay, I was pretty sure I saw it was oriented. orientation, but I was like, I'm not positive. So I was like, well, I can try the rocks. Like, we really had to go. Like, I need to. One that you just shot. So I just got.

So I tossed a rock like this. And then he, like, he flinched and like looked where I threw it. And that was what showed me the direction. Oh, I see. You know, so I got like, it was either he was going to stand up, spook. Yeah. Or look at it and give me the orientation. And thankfully it worked.

Okay. So I did it that time. I've done it a couple of other times. And honestly, like, I haven't had good luck with it. Like, I wouldn't suggest it. It's hit or miss. I did it in Utah one time. This was on Lee and Tiffany show, The Crush.

Yeah. And I don't, I'm not sure why it aired on their show, but it did. Anyway, I snuck in. I was about nine yards from this buck, nice four by four. It's in here somewhere. But I was sitting there ready and I just freaking lot, I lost a rock over him. And he stood up and he looked at me. But by that time, right when he, right when I threw it, I drew back.

And he stood up and looked at me and just smoked him. Yeah, you've got to be quick on it. Oh, fast. So I'll hook my release to the bow, then toss it. Yeah. Before it even lands. You got a pull. You know.

You have to. If you wait at all, it's over. Yeah. You know, I know a lot of people have tried that and had a blow up on them. Oh, yeah. I tried it that, I did it that time and worked perfect. It was probably still, you can probably still look it up. It was called, what was it called?

Anyway, I killed a bull. It was the bull that I was in a tree stand and I got down and a shot. Oh, is that video? Yeah. That was on Crush? Yeah, it was called Doubled Up in Utah or something like that. They post all their stuff on YouTube now, I think. So you should be able to find it.

It was from years ago. Yeah. That's a cool. That's a cool video. Yeah, I like spot and stock. And like, that's how I hunt out mostly too. I'm not like a big caller. Usually when I elk hunt, ideally if they're making noise,

like I love to just stalk in and like hunt on the edge of the bubble. And I love to stay there for hours. And like at first you're 100 yards and then 70. And then eventually you're like in the group. That's nothing like that. As long as the wind holds. As long as the wind holds. Yeah, I would much rather.

And that's how I've killed most of my bowls, a spot and stuff. Like kind of just I don't want to make a call because then they're looking at wherever you are. I'd rather just get in tight like that and just let that bowl. If you can get in close to the herd, the bull is eventually probably going to come by. For sure. He's going to check the cows. Yep. And I've killed quite a few bulls doing that.

And I think that's the best way to do it just because my ultimate bow hunt is to kill an animal and have it never know I'm there. That's my best best. And that's when I do that, I'm like, I did it right. You know, that's just what I, I'm not judging any, I'm not saying anybody else. That's just your thing. But for me, just to be able to kill that animal, have a lot. them never know i was there and run off and and die in seconds it's just like okay it's nothing like it's what it's supposed to be like i agree dude i did a hunt i think it was 2017 solo in the desert

dude glassed up this buck it was the same situation i talked about earlier it was like a hundred degrees so i bet him down at like seven but i wasn't positive he's like in this ditch and there's no win dead i'm like there's no chance i can get in there and get get him right now so i check the weather, go in like seven hours later when the wind picks up. Still 100 degrees, but the wind's a little better. I'm not even sure he's there. I can't see him, but I'm pretty sure he's in this ditch. The key with situations like that, here's what people will mess up on,

is they assume it's gone. Yeah, you can't do that. You have to always, in fact, you have to always assume it's still there until you know for a fact. Because so many people are like, oh, he's gone, then they jump up on a rock. And it's like, no, they were still right there. You're just off a little bit. Yep. So it was a half mile from where I was glassing.

And I go in there, I had a good fence post that just happened to be running through. That was your landmark. I had a good landmark. The wind was good. I get in there. But again, I have no clue for the bucks there. But I stalk in just like he was and my shoes on, the whole deal. Get in there.

Shoes on or off? I have my stocking shoes on. Okay, got you. So like my hunting shoes. No pack, just a range finder bow. That's it. Quiet, stealth. Oh, big time.

Yeah, I go in super minimal. I get in there, I'm on this little, like, finger between two ravines. And I'm like, right on the tip. I'm like, if he's here, he's like right here. Right as I'm thinking that, my feet are burning too, dude. Just so thin and the rocks are, it's 100 degrees. So the rocks are probably even hotter. My feet are like burning.

All of a sudden, I see something flicker in the bushes. And he's just bedded right in front of me, dude. It was like 18 yards. He starts rolling around like a dog playing around. Ooh. Crazy. I have an arrow knocked. He eventually gets up, dips down in this ditch,

and he walk, I draw, shoot him straight down through the, like, perfect shot. He jumps out of the ditch, stands there facing away. Just starts, I mean, every heartbeat is pumping blood. And then he had no idea. No clue.

Yeah. He didn't even know his hit. That's beautiful. Because he did this, like, what's up? And then just out. And like you said, I mean, that is like how could you have a better hunt than that you made a great shot it was super ethical it killed him quick your hunting skills were good that's what it's about for me bow hunting too yeah it's

yeah it's there's so much that goes into it and to have it all come together on something like that it just like it's such a relief too because as as a bow hunter that's our goal you know you you want it to be a merciful quick kill you want to do your job you want to do everything you've practiced over and over and over. And when that works so perfectly like that, oh my gosh, it's such a great, it's such a, not a great feeling, but more like a relief that I offered

this animal merciful death. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm curious. So you had your dad gets you started bow hunting. He started, who was like your, everybody has these idols they look up to.

You know, for me, it was like, we looked at the bow rack today. We stopped in there. I had to check on a bow for my next guest. but that had a poster of Larry D. Jones. He's from right here, and he had these videos called Elk Fever when we first started. So it was Larry D. Jones. Chuck Adams is somebody who I've always admired.

Randy Ulmer was, you know, he's super popular. But who was like, who would you look up to when you were a young bowhunter? Yeah, I mean, Chuck was it for me. You know, like Chuck and Michael were it for me. I was watching everything those guys would do. You know, like, I wore a beanie hunting with the bill for, like, at least 10 years. You know, like Chuck. For sure.

Yeah, for sure. Chuck's such a legend. And I always looked up to him when I was like, that was probably his youngest fan. You know, like when I was like five or six, I'm wearing this beanie hat in the backyard hunting rabbits, you know, like legitimately. And then Michael just like, same thing. Popping into Monster Bucks VHS tapes and every year watching those. And he's just, man. We talked about it to off camera.

He's so good on camera. Well, he's good on camera. What a shot. Yeah. What a shot. The guy had, he just pinwheels everything. It seemed like he's automatic. Like you said, you would look like that's the perfect spot to hit it.

There's Michael's arrow every time, dude. Yeah. He's a killer for sure. Yeah. So I'm hoping to do a co-lab with him. That'd be awesome. Have you talked to him at all? I've talked to T-bone.

I think we're going to line it out. So to me, that would be nuts. Yeah. That'd be fun. It'd be really cool. It would be really cool. Yeah, that episode you guys did was I was so stoked to see he was a guest because, yeah, to me, those were the two guys that were like legends still, still though, to me. Yeah, Michael, for TV, he's OG as far as entertainment and then just being a great bowhunter too.

But yeah, as far as being a personality on TV, just couldn't be any better. No. So good. And just a star. He's a freaking star. He's a huge star. I mean, there's no question about that. Whereas, you know, Chuck is pretty much night and day different as far as entertainment

and like hardly never on TV, never doing any video. But when you, I remember when I was a kid reading his stuff coming up, remember one year he killed, I think like 10 popin young animals. And I was just like, how? I mean, I was trying to kill one a year or like, I didn't even know if a year. Like just kill one. Yeah. You know, it's something to kill a poping young animal.

Yeah. He killed 10. And I'm just like, how was this guy, you know, it just seemed, it seemed like impossible. Unbelievable. It's unbelievable, you know. And I was scrolling his Instagram like the other day because someone shared that bully shot. Yeah. I'm on his page and he's like, I think he's shot like eight or nine bison with a bow.

Really? Who's done that? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like he's so, yeah, it's just like he, it's like he's done so much. And it's just so cool to see and, and it's just a proficient hunter. Yeah. No doubt.

And still like in his 70s, killing a 400 inch bull. And that's something. Yeah, stud big time. Yeah. I was like Lee Lakoski too. I always thought, I always thought Lee was really, really good. Like I'd watch him. Like, this guy is a very good hunter, you know.

Yeah, he's. Debt engineer, I think by trade. So he, as far as the equipment goes and being analytical about it, yeah, just obsessed. Yeah. And then so obsessed with big animals. Oh, yeah. You know, it's always about the oldest, biggest buck. You know, as far as grown big white tail, there's some of the best in the world at it, him and Tiffany.

And they both killed great bulls this year in Montana. but yeah just uh just yeah an assassin with the bow freaking yeah dude i just watched a you know how it is in youtube he get like down an algorithm and yeah i think i watched like four of the recent videos just like had them in the background i was like working on a computer and then one was a bison on he had an elkunt like he they were all bangers lee did lee did bison i didn't know he did that i think it was like two years ago oh i hadn't seen that yeah in montana Big old bull bison. Yeah.

There's a sick hunt too. Oh, sweet. Yeah. They have this dope clip where the glasser on the hill, you know how that perspective, especially if it's a straight line. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks right next to this bull, but it's like over a rise, so they can't see it. And the camera guy's like, turn to the left.

Yeah. Turn to the left, but they can't hear them, you know. It's so weird how that. It's probably 400 yards. Probably, yeah. It's so weird. And then like the spotter's getting mad. He's right there.

He's right next to you. And I've had that before. I'm like, he was 100, fucking 50 yards away. What are you talking about? But it looks like right there. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's so many high emotions in bow hunting. And when you try to film it and then.

Filming's hard, dude. When we try to, when it's something that we obsess about every single day, man, that makes for high emotion on a hunt. And that's been, you know, I don't know about you, but that's been probably the toughest part of hunting with me. is it means so much. Oh, yeah. I'm freaking psycho.

My friends know, anyone who's hunted with me knows I'm a lunatic. Yeah. You know, because like I said, hunting is what I think I'm best at doing. And like,

but I, it's because I'm a maniac. So like, I click a different year and it's like, jump out of beds way early. Like always we're so amped up and ready and just go hard.

Like, yeah, I go hard, you know, whether that means sit a bazillion hour, if that's what it takes, glass, whatever it takes. I always say that.

I think especially elk hunting, I think I see a lot of guys go into it, bow hunting, and they say, well, I have to get them calling on the ground this exact way. And oftentimes,

sometimes that is the best way to get them. But other times it's like, if you really want to just shoot a bowl with your bow, maybe sit a tree on a good trail. Like there's so many, I'm always thinking like, okay, what is my best place to stack all my chips for this specific hunt?

And I'll just go to the end of time with like, if I'm convinced it's the best way. Yeah. And every hunt's different. No, you can't really get boxed in on a tactic or, you know, you look at the animal, you look at the country, you look at the situation with the weather and different things. And then you just, it's like a jigsaw puzzle. You got to put it together and it's not going to go together the same way every time. but you come up with a different tactic and, you know,

I climbed a tree and killed a bull. I didn't, I don't remember ever doing that. Oh, no, I did that on the tight bowl. So my two best bowls, I've climbed trees, no tree stand,

just like, hey, and they asked me, why did you climb the tree? I'm just like, I thought it was the best option at the time. Exactly. And that was,

you know, I didn't plan it. Nope. But, well, I planned the last one on that one. I didn't plan. and you know it's my best bowl and look at that to me that's when you know like your hunting is

proficient because you're not just lumped into saying I'm going to do it this way blah blah blah it's like no I'm going to find out the best way to I always look at it like where am I going to stack all of my time and energy and I want to find out the best way to do it you know and you just got to go into a hunt saying let me assess the information and then we'll go from there you know like And it changes. It's malleable. Yeah. And I think that I think for calling, you can kill a bull. Like there at San Carlos, you can kill a bull calling in, no problem. I don't know, I'm going to say no problem. It's still bow hunting.

Yeah, right. You can go wrong. But to kill a big bull, calling's going to be tough. Because they've been around that. They're old. They're, you know, eight, ten years old. They've seen a lot. They've done a lot. they've probably you know people call there you know it's it gets hunted um so i think calling in a big bull anywhere is usually not the best option for killing it it's uh no spawn stock trying to be quiet stock the bugle um maybe take advantage of water but you know coming into a tank something else other

than they they just know the call-in routine yeah for sure well you know why i mean i totally get it if someone's never hunted out before, it's like all you see on YouTube or the show. Incredible. A bull coming in, bugling? It's insane. Yeah.

It's insane. Yeah. Amazing. You know, but there's always a difference between, do you want to like have the cook, the, the dream or do you want the,

do you want the meat in the freezer? Like sometimes both can align, but not always. Yeah. And that's where it's like you got to sometimes be a little flexible. And I think elk hunting, you just see that the most because, again,

the content's usually relatively similar. You're getting the crazy footage of bull screaming coming in. And man, I've been in some of the craziest rut fest ever. And just been like, this is the best day of my life. Yeah. You know. And that can happen and no kill. I didn't get one.

I mean, that's where Bowling can be so, so frustrating or so memorable is you can be surrounded by bulls. I mean, I've had bulls fighting and got into like 25 yards. and not killed either one. And I'm like, how in hell did I not get a bull killed right there? Yeah, it's just like a lot of stuff has to align. But like, this one day I was hunting. And it was like kind of later in the morning.

So I'm kind of thinking like the morning's like maybe about wrapped up. Like it's quiet for a long time. All of a sudden I hear like a faint bugle long ways. I'm by myself. Go over there. And I'm like, all of a sudden there's like a couple popping off. And I'm like, okay. kept going. I'm like, maybe it's hunters. Like, it just doesn't make sense time of day and everything.

Did I get over there? I end up spending like seven or eight hours with a herd of like 200 elk. And before, before long, like I said, I was initially at 200 yards and eventually I'm like, smelled like a petting zoo. Yeah. I'm in the middle and there was, what state was this? Arizona. Yeah. Good unit too. But there was giant bowls just everywhere. Like one looked like a moose with all as Paul. Me and one was like a seven, like big seven. And dude,

it was so fun because we were covering so much mileage, like with this herd. I was like, I have no clue where I am. Like, we're so far out, right? Dude, we get to this one point and I'm pacing, skirting the herd like over here.

And I'm probably 150 yards to their right with wind good. And I'm looking over at the cow, the front cow. And all of a sudden she stops and like goes like this. And I'm like, what's she looking at? So I look forward. We had got to like a main road. Oh.

And she double-checked. And then she goes, all right, we're going. And me and the elk are sprinting across the road. Me and this huge herd of elk. Wow. I'm hustling up this hill, dude. A car drives by it. I'm like, they think that I'm the biggest lunatic.

Just running parallel in this herd. I get to the top, dude. Winded, right? bulb screams right next to me didn't it was like a giant bowl like one of the bowls you got in here bugles like 35 yard right next to me so i draw turns and walks away oh my god that was like halfway so we covered like it ended up being i think eight miles i cover with this herd yeah didn't get one but it was still one of the most incredible days i did shoot a bull that trip i shot a good six by six But that trip, dude, like, it's every once in a while hunting.

I always say time in the field is so valuable because you never know when you're going to have a day like that. When the magic is going to happen. Yeah. What do you think is a key to your boning success if you had to say something? Obviously, shooting a lot. You know, I think shooting a lot is key. But really, I think it's just I have always had a good instinct for animals and like understanding them and knowing what to do.

I have like a very good instinct. Was that from being out there when you're three and five years old? I think so. Shooting rabbits? I do think so. Yeah. You learn how to move around animals. You learn how to read things.

100%. And you're not even thinking about it. You're just like learning. No, I, for some reason I have, I like, my dad always says he goes, James is just like, he's just a killer. That's what he does. Like, it's, it's great. Like he, my friends don't get it.

They're like, how does a guy do it? But for me, it's like, I think I've done it since I was so young that it's so ingrained in me that like I just know most of the time my instinct. And like I need to go around this rock this way and then around that bush and then down this way. And then it's like it almost always kind of pans out how I think it will. And I wish I wish everyone had that. But like I hunt with other people and it's just like, you need so much time to get that. I'm sure you do because you've been in the field forever. Like,

I'm sure you have great instilled. I wish. I don't want everybody to. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, no, like you got to earn it, you know, like realistically, even though I'm relatively young. Like, I've been bow hunting for real for 25 years. Wow.

Legitimately. Like I got like, so, you know, that's a long time. That is. And you have, like, since whatever, the 80s or 90s when you started, like, 50s. 50s. That's a lot of time though. Yeah. And I just don't think the instinct, honestly, I don't know that everyone can get the hunting IQ.

Yeah, I've always said that just like it with anything is you're going to have, you know, with any endeavor, there's going to be people who are good at it, people who are okay at it and people who suck at it. Hunting is no different. You know, so it's just, it's no different than anything else. You're going to have people who are just good hunters. They're just good at whatever, just reading information, making decisions, reading the animal's body language, having the right instinct. And not everybody's going to have it. And that's just the way it goes. But yeah, it sounds like you have it.

So that's that probably feels good. It's just the time, dude. It's like I'm very fortunate to have got into it so young, you know. But what the hell is getting into? Oh, thumbs up? Thumbs up. Thumbs up. But yeah, I mean, I still, and another thing I think that has really helped me continue to progress and not plateau is that every single hunt I go on, I always am trying to think of like, okay, what could I have done to be a little bit better, a little bit more proficient?

I do that every single day I get back to camp. Yeah. Like, I never try to stop learning. Because I think when you're like, okay, I got it. I'm like, I'm good. Then it's like, you're going to kind of like taper off or just stay the same. I don't want to stay the same. I want to try to like consistently get better and more efficient.

Yeah. And I think if you're always really racking your brain every time you come back, like what could I have done even a 1% better? Yeah. Over a lot of years, those percent add up. Yeah, compounds. You know? Yeah.

Yeah, I remember I was on a roll for a while where I killed nine bulls in a row with one arrow. And I'm like, I got this shit. Yeah. I got it. I can, you know, I was like, I got it figured out. No. Yeah. No.

Bowling will humble your ass in a hurry. I got so bad last year, too. Yeah. So it's one of those things where if you don't have the attitude of always evolving, always learning, then you're going to learn some tough lessons. And so now, that was years ago. Now I'm pretty much kind of mirroring your attitude is like, I want to learn, I want to get better every single time out, every time out.

And I do learn. Yeah, dude, every time. I guarantee you ask Chuck Adams if he was here. I bet he says the same thing. Yeah. I bet he's still learning, you know. Yeah, there's. And Bowenny is also something you're never going to master.

Oh, no. You know, like I see these guys shooting, you know, the Vegas shoots and they're shooting 300s and all these Xs. Like you can master archery in some respects. Still, they're amazing. They're amazing to build a shoot like that, but they've sort of mastered that aspect of it.

Bow hunting, you'll never master. Too many elements. Way too many variables. You got the animals reaction. You got the wind. You got all these things like, well, just shooting a bow on a line in a building.

You don't have any of that. You can take as long as you want. You can, you know, relax, do all this things, focus. Hunting, sometimes you've got to shoot that three second shot at. Or your footing's goofy. Yeah, something. You know, it's like there's so much to it. Angles, weather, right?

Animal reacts. Like, you just never know. It's just never going to be something that anybody masters. And that's sort of the most beautiful thing about it. Because the people who are obsessed and always learning and just pouring themselves into it, that generally who's going to have the success over long periods of time. And that's how I like it. I like it where you got to earn that shit.

I think what I have always loved about bow hunting the most is just how hard it is. I've always loved that, you know. And I think there's just a beauty and pulling stuff off that's really hard. Whether that's a crazy long run. Like I'm sure a lot of the allure, I've never ran 100 miles, but I'm sure when you do, I guarantee a big part of it is finishing something super hard. Yeah. I mean,

everybody kind of wants that 100 mile belt buckle. Like you finish a 100 mile raise, usually you get a cool belt buckle. That sounds great. I mean, who wouldn't want that? Yeah. Yeah.

Getting it sucks. It sucks. Yeah, right? But yeah, it is there's something about just pouring yourself into something and having it pay off. And that's bow hunting. I like that there's no,

Really no shortcuts. No, no, no, definitely not. I mean, you got to get into, you got to somehow get into Bow Range and get a good arrow on them. And then you got to kind of turn into, you know, do a little autopsy, read blood sometimes, track them down. There's a lot that goes into it. Yeah.

And as long as it's, you know, public land over the counter on a weekend and on the ground spot and stock with a recurve, then it counts. It has to be what everybody. can do. Yes. So if you, if you kill on a Wednesday, what if people have to work on a Wednesday?

That's not going to count. Nope, doesn't count. No. If you kill, if you're in a tree stand, definitely doesn't count. It's not hunting.

Yeah, I've technically only shot one bowl. You know? Yeah. Obviously, we're joking because people get so psycho about everything. Oh,

yeah. But, we got to stop. We got to stop doing that. Yeah, we do. Yeah. So tell me,

Like with Bo Disciples. So I know what your goal is to keep growing archery. Who's your like, and you mentioned Waddell, but like who's your dream guest to shoot against? Yeah. I mean, are you going to, did you say? Got to. Yeah. I think we're going to.

Have you talked to her? I mean, a little like I did one of those like question boxes on Instagram. Oh, okay. Who should I shoot against? And she came up and I post shared it and then she shared it. Oh, okay. I assume. She knows you're a lot.

We both shoot Botek. So I'm like, I think that'll happen. Yeah. And I would love that one. I think it'd be great. Yeah. And then Levi would be awesome. You know, I want to shoot with guys, guys or gals who are really good.

I like shooting with people who are either phenomenal personalities or have a lot of skill. Like, I want to be, I want to be tested. I want the Vegas odds against me and I want to try to try to bring it home. Who's, so who has anybody beat you in a shoot? I mean, who's been. Other than the world championships. Well, me. But I mean, who's been the best shooter you've shot against so far?

Probably you, I would say. Just because the world championships? No, like, you're a good consistent shooter. Josh Jones is really good. Like, you know, but I, oh, actually, my friend, local friend, Chuck, who's in quite a few of the video. Actually, his name's Chuck Adams, which is crazy. Is he a good shot? He's very good.

Really? Yeah. Chuck's always on my ass. I usually get him, but if I slump at all, he's right there. And actually, Chuck's probably like one of the best shooters I shoot with on a regular basis. He shoot a bow tech too? No, Hoyt. Hoyt.

Yeah. What, Bo? Do you know? VTM 33? Yeah, that's, I think last year's Bo. I think. Yeah. Yeah, I think.

Or, no, what did I shoot? Two years ago? Two years ago. Two years ago. Last year was Alpha X. Yeah, VTM was two years ago. Yeah, I think that's what he shoots. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm a heated bow. He's very good, very, very good shooter. And part of it is the bow, but a lot of it is how you have it set up. For sure. And just how many, how often you're shooting do? Yeah, the reps. Yeah, you can't.

Nobody can just magically say, oh, here, I set this bow up for you. You're going to shoot a great now. Yeah. Most of them, yeah. You got to get out. Except I did shoot your bow very good today. You did. You dropped a perfect.

It was actually a 12. I don't know. I don't know if we can. I should just say, fucking show it. Because last time I did that, I think with Dan Staden, I shot his bow, who shot my bow, we didn't put it in there because whatever. I mean, you can put it. Yeah, you can put me, you shoot another bow. My shot wasn't impressive, unfortunately. I'll tell you, though, I did break the shot with the pin right on the middle. Well, then that's a perfect shot.

I know. Yeah, because it's all about that break. It broke right in the 12th. I would, yeah, I would happily miss an animal as long as my execution was right. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's another inside joke. Yeah. To be honest, I would, well, on most these animals in here, I did not break a perfect shot. I just hammered that trigger at the right time. Hammered it, baby. Hey, you know what?

Drive it home. I know. Wrap up that two stroke. I love it. No, but how great is Wayne's little farm out there to shoot? It was great, dude. Yeah, I loved it. It's, first of all, you can shoot at distance.

Yeah. You shoot a lot of different. But only 201. Well, I think we can get further. Yeah. We got to kind of change things out. Get creative. But I love the different angles you can shoot.

Yeah. The property's beautiful. There's a lot of targets. Like, it was awesome. And then the bow rack was like, it's a nice shop. You know, I've never been before. So it was really cool. It's very well organized.

A lot of inventory. Like, Meet and Wayne was cool. I love the historical. You know, I'm a bow-hunting nerd. So it was cool to go in there and see that. that old, you know, the old bows and everything he's doing. It's amazing how, you know, bows, yes, they've changed a lot, but in some ways they haven't changed much.

I mean, they had those shoot through risers. Yeah. From back in 60s, right? The 60s. Is that what it was? And they're still shooting those. You know, they're still Hoyt. I just saw a brand new one at Hoyt just on Friday.

So it's just pretty funny. I mean, a lot of it, they've come a long way as far as efficiencies were, you know, back when I first started, I'd have to shoot 90 pounds to get like about 240 feet a second. Yeah. You know, so the bows have become way more efficient. I think right now the efficiency quotient is about 85% efficient, which you can't really go too much further, you know, and keep it primitive, essentially.

So as far as technology, now it's just a matter of making them easier to tune. Quieter, quieter, smoother, yeah, more forgiving. and they're you know hoight somehow did that with this brand new one yeah you were shooting a good too yeah and uh yeah man what a what a what a what a what a great place to shoot like you said and just that's what i want more people to do is is have cool places to shoot and go shoot with your buddies and what um when you shoot with other people like that you mentioned do you do you learn from them or Are you pretty set in your ways? Or like, say you were able to shoot with Levi Morgan,

one of the greatest to ever do it. What do you think, you think you would learn something? Would you ask them questions or would you just observe? Yeah, no, I'm sure. I'm always observance. I'd definitely be doing that. And yeah, if I see something he's doing that I'm like, what is that for?

What's the purpose of that? Definitely I would ask. I'm a learner, so I like to learn. With archery, I'm pretty, like, my form has pretty much been the same for, like, a long time. Does a string hit the tip your nose or to the side? Always a tip. Tip, okay, yeah.

But no nose button, but you got the same spot, corner your mouth? No, so I actually run my string a little deeper than most people. Like probably a little bit above my mouth, but I don't really have face pressure or very little, but it's just such a repeatable anchor. I do a couple things like a little bit unique one. I like I hold the release really deep. And the reason I do that is because if I'm holding it as deep as it'll go in my hand, it's the same every time. I can just go till it stops.

It's going to be the same. So I've shot like that a long time. And then my anchor is pretty vertical compared to a lot of guys, like that shoot a handheld. A lot of them shoot. And I've shot a handheld for like I was early on that train. I think I jumped on one in 2004 or something. The same one. honestly the truth is this is a hilarious story i saw david blanton shooting one in the monster bucks

vhs tape and i went that looks so cool yeah i need that's how a lot of kids make decisions at the time nobody shot them right and i went to the shop and i said i want one of those what kind was it i still have it it's the same when i shoot carter b k targa yeah that thing's like it's old really oh it's very old they don't make it anymore but i love that release and uh yeah shout out to david Lantin. That's why I did it. Yeah. Dang. Well, that's how as a young, impressionable youth, that's how you make decisions. You see somebody who think looks cool or, you know, like, I want to be, I mean, I wore a bandana like Jim Shockey. Yeah. I, you know, and Chuck would always have a big smile, so I'd have a big smile. Um, and you,

Larry D. Jones used to have like, camo face paint, but he would have white camo paint also. So a little white. So I'd do that. And it's just like, we always, learn from those who come before us, right? So that's just kind of how archery, when you're just starting out, you're just kind of mimicking who you look up to. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I would love to shoot with Levi. That'd be cool.

I'm sure he's just a beast hunter too. So I would love to just talk bow hunting and do some shooting. I'm sure one day all happen. Yeah. Gonna bring my egg game. I know. Yeah. You shot with him.

I did. Yeah. And I had, I practiced out there. like every shot I was going to take for like the whole week. Yeah. And then I got him out there and I'm like, so we pull out, we pull in out there. I'm like, okay, let's just shoot from here. And it was like this little bear maybe 77 yards just right out of the truck, no warm up.

Just. And I made a good shot. And he shot. And I was like in the 10, but a little bit to the left. He shot right inside my arrow. And I'm like. Wow. You're like, I needed that one.

I needed that one. And then, yeah, he went on a roll and I'm just like, holy shit. Then somehow, I think what it ended up is like I got six out of 17. And, but mostly, I mean, all his shots were like, I basically got lucky six times. Hey, six is good. I was happy with six. Yeah, dude, for sure. Yeah.

But I was quizzing him and saying like, You know, that's where I told you about what he told me about how, depending on where the sun is and how it comes into your peep, it can change how you're looking, how you're seeing that peep in your pen. And like he told me the story about it. I think he, I think he does ASA. I'm not sure what the shoot is. But they went down a road and shot all the targets on the right side, then came back and still shoot on the right side, but it was the other side of the road. And when they turned around coming back, the sun, of course, was on their opposite side. what changed how he is looking at his pin through the peep.

So he's like a few inches to the left. Yeah. And when those guys are like he's going after 14s all the time. Yeah, that big, you know. You can't be a few inches off. So they're so used to like adjusting to either weather, probably barometer, you know, like thick air affects your arrow, maybe that much, which that could be a line for sure on a 14.

Absolutely. The light coming into your peep, just different things. I don't know about footing, but it just made me more aware of just looking at everything. Dude, when you told me that about the peep thing today, I was like, that's an element I never thought about. So see, that's why I would, like, I would love to just learn little things like that from someone of that caliber. Like, hey, what am I overlooking? Because that's definitely something I'd never thought of. But once you said it, I go, it makes total sense.

It does make sense. It does. And I just remember we were sitting in the bow rack and he was shooting a 40 yards and we were just sitting there watching them. And just so freaking accurate, just a machine. Yeah. It looks so easy. It looks so easy. Some people, man, they're just like put in a lot of work and have a lot of talent when you line up a lot of work and a lot of talent.

Yeah, it's a perfect storm. You know, Waddell was he really surprised. I mean, I know he's a great shot. We talked about the videos, but in the bow rack, man, he's laying them in there. Really? Yeah, just a great archer. And I think T-Bone is like a master bow mechanic, which helps because you, you know, that's one thing that Levi mentioned.

I don't know if you listen to that podcast, but he was so particular about setting up his bow and tuning it. He said that's why he was winning for a long time is he just was, his bow was set up. It was just tuned better. And it makes, you know, when you're talking this much difference between winning and losing, sometimes it's about it's your bow shooting perfect. And so he was just so particular about how he had his bow set up. And he was just an incredible technician.

So T-Bone offers that up for Nick Mont and Waddell, I think. And it's a big advantage. For sure. You know, you can buy the same bow as somebody else and have the exact same everything else. If your bow isn't tuned perfectly and theirs is, it's just going to be no competition. That's why it's important to have a good shop too. Yeah. Or a good resource like podium archer on YouTube, Josh, like that shows you how to do it yourself.

If you don't live near a shop in San Diego, we've got a lot of good shops like Bow and Arrow Shop, performance, Willow Creek. Like we're fortunate to have options just like you have here at the Bow rack. I don't have options, but I don't need one. Yeah. I got the bow rack like a mile away, not even a mile. But some people live nowhere near a row shop. I know. I know. Where like for a guy like Josh, what he does with his videos that are so educational.

Yeah. I can see why, you know, people are so drawn to it because he's got so much information dumped out there for that exact person. You can't come to the shop. Yeah, I know. And that's a lot of people. And most people, yeah, they just either their small talent or just don't live around a great shop. And yeah, it's if you do live around one, man, you got to feel so lucky. but it's so nice having those resources out there on YouTube.

You can pretty much look up anything now. Yeah. And it's still not quite like having, you know, when I go down to the bow rack, you know, and I was like messing around with my boat during season, switching spacers back and forth to get just to get it shooting perfect. That is hard to do. That's going to take some time to figure all that out, right, for somebody.

So, man, that the pro shop is. So much better if you. It's such an ace in the hole. Oh, for sure. That's what I'm saying. Like, I've been going to Bowenarrow shop since the owner, Bruce, like, got it. Where's that at? It's in Lakeside, California.

So, like, from where we were at performance, like, probably 15 minutes away. But I've been going since he owned the shop. And I think, like, 0, 405. And it's like, man, I love sending people there because I have full confidence that anyone who watches my videos and watches us at the shop that goes in, they're going to get the same experience. Like they actually teach people how to shoot, which I think is cool. Like someone will buy a bow, whether it's a diamond 320 or a flagship bow tech,

they're going to stand there and make sure they at least are competent shooters and have good form before they leave the shop. And I, and then the tuning stuff, the same thing. So I've been very blessed to have that. I don't work on my own bows. I probably should learn how to do it. But I've always just have so much trust in the shop that, you know, I'm like you with the bow rack. It's a total ace in the hole.

I mean, they do it every day. Yeah. Worked on thousands of bows. I'm just like, I mean, take the reins. Yeah, you got it. I'll pull back and shoot. But yeah, yeah, it's like Trent down there, man, he's so good. He's one of the best technicians.

Wayne is really good. But Trent, as far as a young guy, man, he is the best. That's awesome. Yeah, it's nice. have on that um i was uh i don't know how to say this so like in our industry why is there's why is there so many haters oh well i don't think that's just our industry no no dude i think you you talk about any industry like whether it's golf or rock climbing or hiking or pool i don't know the most random communities of anything, I think that always exists.

Do you have haters? Do I? Yeah. Yeah, I got a couple for sure. I got a couple. Yeah. What'd you do? Why do they hate you?

I don't know. Sometimes I'm too fun. You know what I mean? Too fun. Too fun. They like to be miserable. Of course. Yeah.

Oh, too good looking? Too good looking. Yeah. Too cool. That'll do it. There's a lot. Yeah. There's a lot to hate.

I don't have too many, though. No? Never in person. I'll tell you that. No. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, but I don't know. Yeah, I think in anything, though, like, I just think people that push that do things that's not conventional, whatever that is, like what we're doing and like creating content and putting ourselves out there, it's not conventional. And I think that sometimes people with like a really small mindset just don't like that. They're like, why are you out here doing this? And that doesn't matter if you're a dirt bike rider filming videos or whatever, you know. So I don't know. I think it's just a mind.

mindset that I think's pretty nasty. Like, I don't really mess with. But, you know, there are people that they don't like winners. I prefer to hang out with winners. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Me too. You know.

Yeah. Well, I hope, I'd love to see you shoot with Waddell. I'd love to see you shoot with Levi. Anybody else on page? Anybody else on the hit list? I want to shoot with everybody. I want to shoot with people that are not necessarily in archer either. Paul Skeins.

Shooting with Paul would be cool or like, so I have one really cool one lined up. There's this guy, Paul Bassagosia. I used to be a pro bike rider and I rode with Paul. And he actually got paralyzed from the waist down at Red Bull Rampage, maybe 2015 or somewhere around there. But he has a whole documentary about him on Red Bull. He walks again and he's shredded. He's in great shape. I mean, he's not, don't walk perfect, but he's out here doing it.

And he's super fit, still bikes. So I want to do a video where we go ride together and like hit some jumps and stuff. And then I show them how to shoot. There you go. So stuff like that I want to do with people in different spaces because yeah, it's cool. Like all that stuff that we talked about shooting with Levi or Paige or Michael or like that. I look at that as like for our like core fans and audience. But I also want to reach like new people.

Yeah. I don't know how many of the lift run shoots you've watched, but there's something pretty magical when they're at however far it is. Maybe it's 60 yards for some people, maybe it's 100 for others. But when they shoot and that arrow goes and pops that balloon

and their reaction, their smile is priceless. Yeah. Right? And that's kind of what we're all chasing or not we're all chasing, but that's like the magic of archery. It's like watching somebody learning to shoot a boat for the first time

and seeing that success and seeing their honest, like childlike reaction to something cool happening big smile isn't it yeah and it's just it's just that's the that's the most i don't know the important times of life it feels like yeah it's like trying something new and having a little bit of success and just feeling good about that you know what i think pop in the balloon does because i yeah i've watched a fair amount of them and i have seen that the first time people pop it and get just amped oh amazing you know what i think it is it's like you might have tried that for a while to pop that balloon.

And when you let go of the arrow, there's like anticipation. Yeah. Because you can kind of see it and you go, oh, this might be. I know. And then when it is, you're like, holy shit, I got the balloon, you know. I know. There's nothing like it. Even when we're shooting at 201, how fun is it when one of our arrows is gone?

And we got time because we're sitting there we shoot. You're like, oh, looks good, looks good. Then boom. Oh, God, that feels good. There's nothing like it. Yeah. And we've, I don't, I wonder how many. balloons that popped out there probably a thousand and it never gets old at that long distance

watching that arrow arc in there and then hit it's just like I mean it's like the first time every time it is and it's such a unknown I get I love it because you can especially at 200 it's like okay I can see the line of the arrow yeah looks pretty good yeah and then you got time but then you can't like the elevation's tough to see at that distance you know but yeah man we were we were pretty solid though yeah No, it was, I don't know, I'm super thankful. You know, we got together, we shot down in San Diego. That was kind of a on a whim too. I was down there for the baseball game.

And I can't remember if I message you or. I hit you up because I saw it. Is that what I was? Yeah. And I, you know what, actually kind of a funny story about that. So we had DM, like, I don't know, not many times, like five times or something. And I saw you're at Petco. So I lived like 10 minutes from Petco.

And you're a big baseball fan. Yeah, I am. So I message you. And I'm like, hey. if you got time we'll try to film and i message you at like maybe 9 p.m. or something like two hours go by i go if i had to guess i bet this crazy guy is out running or some shit and he'll probably message me at like midnight yeah it's exactly what happened yeah i see a story of you running like okay well like probably pretty soon he messaged me and then like exactly to the script yeah yeah and i was i just

love people who love archery so i'm like yeah we're gonna make this happen let's meet it and i want to i want to support those guys just because i've known bobby forever and he he has sold it but uh still a great shop he's still stop buying there he's a legend hunting legend for sure yeah we were able to uh make a fun video there and i just you know then we set up like hey you need to come up and do the lift room shoot and it's just i just love i love supporting people with your attitude that are so positive and are such great archers too. It's, I don't know, it's just seeing somebody that shoots as good as you and cares so much about what we love. It's just, man, it's just, I don't know. It gives, it just energizes me. It inspires me. I like shooting with, like, shooting with you's blast because you and me are both

competitive, but we're both fun. We both talk a healthy amount of shit, which is fun, you know. And I, Like I said, I guarantee he's not be our last time shooting together. Shit's too fun. But funny thing about the video we did. And I don't know if you noticed when you watch, but there is this dude just lurking in the video, right? And he kind of became a star in the comments. People were like, who is the blue shirt guy?

My favorite part is at one point you just turned and go, what's up? And then he's like back at the end. So here's also a little known fact. that's the guy who set up me going to the game. Really? He actually works for me. Dude, what a legend.

Ari. It was funny because he wasn't saying anything in the video. No, he's just like, I think he was just trying to like, wanted to just be hang out. But he, uh, so what he does is like he's got me. I think he got me this CIG sponsorship. And I don't, you know, Rihanna does a lot of my sponsorships, but I don't pay him unless he brings me business. Yeah, yeah. commission base.

If he brings me business that I wouldn't have got, I think 15% or whatever. So he's a hustler. What a legend. And he's Jewish. He's got the, is it Yamaka? Yeah, yeah, Yamaka.

So I took him into the meeting with Danny Duncan's merchandise people and they're like, oh shit, this is a business guy. So it's like, all I had to do is have him there. And they're like, oh, the Jewish guy, course he's going to be crunching numbers so they were like he was like my secret weapon just say here you don't have to say anything dude he is a legend i didn't know was one of your guys

that makes it even more fun i know i know did you read the comments and all like he's just people love him i think people thought he was just like lurking guess what it looks like in the video because he's just like kind of like almost shadowing us yeah yeah yeah like not dude that is so funny i think he just didn't want to like intrude yeah but he wants to like intrude but he wants to Wanted to be there? Niceest guy. Gosh. Yeah.

He's a legend, dude. Yeah, he was at the baseball game with us. I might have to shoot with him in a video. That would be fire. I love him. He works his ass off. I love it. But he's like pretty, I mean, pretty strict Jewish.

Like there's a lot of different holidays and rules and can't eat until sundown or something like that. But he's like dialed in on it. Then like the Sabbath, so he. I think he doesn't work. I can't remember what time. Something like Saturdays. I think it's all day Saturdays.

I don't really know. But he goes like, you know, I'm going to be on Sabbath so I can't, I'll check back in with you. But when he's working, Ari's his name. Ari,

shout out to you, Ari. You're legend. Ari's crushing it. He's a fan favorite on both disciples. I'll tell you that. He's my fan.

I mean, he's done a lot of good work for me. That's awesome. So I'm Mike. It was super, super thankful for Ari. But yeah, he was definitely at the shop. But yeah. Yeah.

What a good video. That was a good video, man. I watched it. Before I came up here, I was like, let me rewatch that just in case there's any subject material here. Did that? And I was like, this is funny, dude. Did it get good views for you?

It's got like 20,000 or something, which is pretty good. Yeah, that's good. You know? Yeah, yeah, it's good numbers. Yeah. Sweet. Yeah. It's a lot of fun.

I think our lift turn shoots are going to do good, too. Oh, I think so. I think people, you guys did. We should maybe talk a little bit. about the double, what do you call it, double peaks? No. What is it? The double summits.

Oh, last night? Yeah, yeah. Okay, here's the mistake I made. You start going. I go, I've been running. I'm going to try this. I don't think we went more than 200 yards. Well, before we win, I said, we're going to hit the mountain for a little bit.

You're like, okay, I've been running. That shouldn't have done that. I said, what you should have said is you haven't been running. because I just know how that hill, it doesn't matter if you've been running on flat. You try to push it a little bit going up. You know, it's pretty steep at the beginning.

You just blow yourself out. I was blown out so fast, dude. And then I'm trying to power walk. And the power walk was going fine. I go, well, I'm not going to stop. So I'm power walking the whole time. It took a while for those legs. To recover.

Oh, yeah. It took a while. But then after that, it was like, it was pretty good. And then it was funny because we get to the top. And you're like, all right, we're going to go, we're going to hit another little loop. It's like a bigger loop than the first one. And I'm running.

I ran the whole thing. And I get down there, I go, dude, I just ran the whole thing. Yeah, well, it's downhill. Yeah, you did good. My goal was to make it memorable. It was. I want people to come here and I want them to go home with stories. And when they go home to whoever they're hanging out with their family,

their friends, I want them to have stories about lift run, shoot. Oh, dude. That's all that's what I want. I want to share my life and I want people to, I want it to make an impact. Yeah, for sure. I think that I love the when it got dark. I thought that was cool. Like that reminds me of hunting, you know, walking out in dark and well, as I told you, anybody when it's nice as sunny out can go and do a little run. Yeah. But get out there when it's dark and you're by yourself. Yeah. Then, okay, now we're, now there's going to be a little separation between you and everybody else. So that's when I'm like, you know, we're getting the second summit in well after dark.

That's what it takes sometimes. Dude. Also, the monument up there is much bigger than I anticipated. If we get up there, I'm like, I've got to jump up there. Just don't, I'm jumping out. I'm like, please don't come up short. Yeah. Don't eat, don't eat shit.

I didn't know how the- It would be good content. So if I eat shit, it's not the end of the world. And then I get a cramp. I didn't know how the legs you're going to do after two summits. Got it, though. Got it. No hands.

touch too. That was impressive. Yeah. It was, you know, Gideon over here, he, like we started off on that run. Gideon thinks he's going to show off and try to, you know, keep up or whatever. And then he trying to act cool on trips and basically breaks his face and his camera. Do you remember that, Gideon? On the way down. No, going up.

Right at the beginning. I missed the one on the way up. Who tripped? Did I trip? Oh, was you? Oh, I thought that was. When did I trip? Wait. Right in the beginning.

Oh, yeah. He tripped coming down, though. Remember that? But it was an epic save. He had a good save. Oh, I thought that was, I heard somebody tripped. That was me. I clipped the rock and dropped the anchor right out the gate, dude. The gate dropped and I swapped the back wheel right away, dude. Yeah, couldn't handle the 450, you know. It's too much power. It's, yeah, that hill, I love it. I love it. So, yeah, I mean, and then the lifting, you know, you're strong. I'm I you know what that's probably the most disappointed I am in the lifting today I really wanted to get you on 225 I was so bummed when it just ah that it felt rep one I go all this is I got it's a heavy 225 well like you said they're actually double weighted plates it's like four plates 4 oh5 yeah yeah so I mean to to do you know a few reps of 405 it's good yeah yeah there's a good lift though you got a nice gym I really like your bench and yeah it's fun I I I love lifting. So that's like big part of my archery too, I think, is being and having good, strong muscles and foundation

because my shoulders used to be super blown out from bike riding. I got torn labrums in both. And in 2012, it was rough. I had to Elkhunt and it was like, I mean, I can barely draw the bow. My shoulders hurt like shit. They're constantly popping out of socket.

But I was still biking. I was still in my biking career. So I talked to my doctor. And he was like, look you can go get both of your shoulders repaired but you're gonna probably tear them again or you can go try to get strong i was skinny as shit but like not in good shape he goes you can try to go lift weights and get like a lot stronger and add muscle from the outside since your shoulders have no stability from the inside yeah they will not so i was like well try weightlifting and i was

like 10 10 11 12 years ago okay i've lifted ever since and i like have to continue to continue you're lifting or my shoulders is crazy how fast they deteriorate if I take some time off or something. Yeah. Which happens on hunts because I'll go hunt for a few weeks. By the time I get back, I'm like, do. Oh, man, my shoulder feels not good. Yeah, I did want to, before we wrap up here, I do like the perspective you've had on who

you're partnering with on your bow because I like that you found a good opportunity need the bow tech you're going to go over there tomorrow get their new flagship bow i think and it's just you know they've made some cuts but at how the industry goes it's like where do you you know hit your wagon to and i like your approach on bo-tech like if you could come in and be a big player for them make this great content and then you know because they did have to i don't know what happened but they did cut some shooters maybe that's a good opportunity for you to just like take advantage of this you're getting in you know not making a ton of money to start but you're going to prove yourself and then who knows where's going to go i like tell me about that yeah yeah yeah so um

first of all for me is like i just i enjoy shooting bo-tech i've shot bo-tech since 2005 i have not shot a different bow since and i really that was like where i wanted to be you know so for me i'm like i really want to make this specific partnership happen like it that's that's It's the most natural fit for me. It's a natural fit for them. Let's make it happen. You know, and then from like a, you know, like a business mindset as well, aside from just personally wanting to be there and really like in the problem. And I love the bows.

I'm super comfortable with the bows. But another thing was, you know, looking at the landscape, it's like Hoyt and Matthews have, you know, the big people signed. You're on Hoyt. A bunch of other big names are on Hoyt. Same with Matthews. Boatek, yeah, they have Paige who's like, you know, up there, like, shoot one of the best shooters there is, you know, but I was, I kind of looked at it like, okay, I think I can kind of like position myself as more of like a face of the brand, kind of like you are with Hoyt, with a company like that in a quicker amount of time. And it's more, it's more fitting, you know, because I literally like, it's not fake shit. You can go watch me shoot stuff in 2005. And then all the way. till now. You're not just chasing money or whatever. It's just it's natural. Correct. Yeah. So for me, that was a big thing because it like I said, I'm year six on this and it's the first year I've actually

tried to really monetize, you know, which we talked about. And I think that's something I'm open to talk about all the time because if a kid right now was watching this and there's 16, 17 and want to make money doing archery content, it's possible. And people are so hush, hush about it that I don't want to be that way. So like we have like four revenue streams between, uh, YouTube ad revenue, our website, boatocibles.com where you can win one of my bows right now. It's just kind of cool. Uh, an event, boatocles challenge three D shoots, two day shoot in May. And then we have, uh, sponsorship deals, like paid deals. And then we have like, uh, discount code deals. What's a pay? What do you mean the sponsorship? Like just like my deals that pay like monthly.

Okay. Plus like the discount code stuff. I see. You know what I mean? So if you have a code, then you get a percentage of that. Stuff like that. I have a few of those. Yeah.

I try not to do too many, but we have a couple. So like growing that, you got to have a mindset for business. Yeah. You know, and thankfully I was a bike rider doing the same type of stuff in 2010 through 2013. Sponsorships and things like that. Same thing. Making content. I was putting videos on the internet in 2000.

Oh, okay. So I've been doing this a long time and just like getting better at it, more refined. And yeah, I really, I didn't do a single sponsorship on purpose until the end of last year. So I was independent for five years. Like, let me build it first. And then I'm going to pick out the companies I really want to work with. That's a good idea. You know, so like with Botech, it's like I'm super excited about that. And hopefully we have a, I say it to every company I do deal with, but like I hope it's for 20, 30 years, 40 years. That's what I hope. You know, it doesn't always go that way. Obviously, like things happen in life, but I never go into a deal thinking it'll be one year.

I want it to be a bunch. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good attitude. It's just like that first year, maybe just make them realize what a great value you are. And they're just like, holy shit, this guy's kicking ass for us and then build from there.

But that story sort of reminds me of, you know, like with my shoe deal, I'm never going to get Nike. But Speedland, shit. They're local here in Oregon. They're kicking ass. People are talking about them. They use me. I got my own shoes. And it's like, you would never say like, oh, I've always dreamed of wearing, you know, running in Speedland.

But then when you kind of look at the landscape and you're just like, well, looking at it like, God, they did see me shoes. I did, I do like them. They're great to run in. And I'm some redneck bow hunter, which normally doesn't go with like the running community, but they're willing to support me. So it's like, I just want to be a great value for them. They, they've supported me now for a few years as far as giving me opportunity. It's like, that's what's all about.

That's how you can build. Yeah. And it's also cool when you can like, I kind of like, I kind of like, if I can sometimes, working with companies that are smaller, like, especially if they have potential and are willing to run. It's your making impact for sure. And it's so cool when you can build right alongside someone else putting in the comparable or more or the same effort. Like I really like that, you know. And obviously like a company like Botech is not a small company, but it's just like, yeah, I don't know. It was a good fit for me. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. I love it. I mean, 2025 is going to be 20 years straight

shooting the bows. It's a long time, dude. No. It's a great opportunity for you. I know you're going to be a good value for them. And you do, I mean, you represent archery well. And that's, you know, that's what, that's what every company wants. That's the name of the game. It's like, you know, when people, when people look at you and they hear your name, what do they think? You know, that's, that's pretty much all it amounts to.

Are they thinking something positive and fun? Or are they thinking like, yeah, I can't fucking stand that guy. Yeah. When they see you, when I hear your name. and I hear Bo disciples, I'm like, some good videos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so keep that up. Yeah, thanks, dude.

And the sky's the limit. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, and I will. I feel like I'm just getting started. Yeah. Like, I really do. I feel like I barely got out the start gate. Yeah, but it's not like, you know,

and people always say, well, for the right reason, this and that, you love archery. So it's not like you're taking advantage, like, hey, maybe this is a lane. I could find some success in this. You just love to do it. I've done it. I've done it since I was three years old. Right.

You know, like, and I have videos and pictures like that are, you know, maybe I'll use in a documentary one day or some shit. But, but like, I've always thought that was kind of goofy too because I'm not going to spend

all my time and effort in like, if my goal was to make money, I wouldn't probably choose archery to do real estate. Or something. Like, you know, or, you know,

I'd go get really good at golf or like, you know, only fans. You can, yeah, perfect, you know. James,

thank you for, comment. I, I, I, I, I, I, we've had, this isn't the last get together we're going to do. This isn't the last shoot off we're going to do. This is not, not the last video, but we've had a great time. I'm very appreciative. You came all the way up here to Oregon and, uh, man, just had a blast. Thank you. Well, dude, thanks to you and your whole team. You guys are, are the real deal. Like, you guys, honestly, like, dealing with your, you know, Rihanna and the people doing your scheduling and James. You guys, your whole team was awesome. Very hospitable. Easy. to work with. And I have a blast shooting with you. I feel like our energy match as well. And we'll do

more stuff. There's no doubt. And I appreciate the opportunity. You know, this is, you got a big platform in the space. Like, there's no doubt about it. And I feel blessed. So you gave me a shot. And hopefully I, hopefully, hopefully I showed up. I want you to blow up, dude. Yeah. I want you to blow up. I want your meeting to go well at Botech tomorrow. I want you to blow up. I love what you have to offer the industry and I know you're just going to keep keep hammering nice yeah there it's you like that like that thanks bro all right you later guys you later guys you you you know you you know you