Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 097 - Paul Skenes

Episode Date: October 12, 2024

Join us for a discussion with Paul Skenes, an American professional baseball pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates of Major League Baseball. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Paul Skenes: https://www.instagram.com/paulskenes/  Thank you to our sponsors: Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  GoHunt: https://gohunt.com/ use code CAM when you sign up for $50 towards the gear shop + 10% off the GoHunt store Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: A Elite Performers Mindset 0:05:05 Closers VS Cleaners in Baseball 0:09:45 People Who Inspired Paul 0:12:07 Icons in Baseball 0:18:20 Pitches that Surprise the Batter 0:22:02 Best Big Game Pitchers 0:28:24 A Mentality to Keep Improving 0:32:20 Ad Break 0:34:13 Favorite Baseball Movies & How They’re Similar to Real Life 0:38:43 Being a Good Teammate 0:43:24 Paul’s Self Assessment of the 2024 Season 0:49:23 Reading Body Language 0:52:56 Hit & Runs, Bunts and Walked Plays 0:58:14 Pine Tar & Face Paint 01:03:41 Players Time with a Team 01:06:44 Creating a World Contender Team 01:09:23 Paul’s Goals for the 2025 Season 01:13:28 Success Between the Pitcher & Catcher 01:16:15 Finding Focus & Sports Psychiatrists 01:19:45 The Airforce & Continuing to Learn & Lead 01:23:00 Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy, and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammering Collective. I'm joined by Paul Skeen's.

Thank you for being here. Yeah, I appreciate you having me, brother. I cannot believe I have you in Springfield, Oregon, and we did a lift room shoot. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah, pretty cool. Yeah. Well, I'm pumped. I mean, I was thinking as we were sitting here, have you done a lot of podcasts?

A couple. Nothing like this, though. They've been sports podcasts and like who's who's podcast. The last one I did I think was was Barstall. What's a pardon my take. Yeah, done a couple other ones with you know, LSU and that kind of thing. Yeah, but they've all been they've all been sports podcast. Gotcha. So besides, let's see, it's the two bears, two bears one cave, that's your go-to podcast, right? Yeah, I mean, they're short, they're funny. Good to listen to to lighten up the mood. And you're a big Bert Kreisher fan? Yeah, Bert and Tom. Yeah, like them both. Listen to, yeah, Shane Gillis, everything I can get from that guy is gold. You know, Rogan, Gagons, Huberman, all those guys. It's, it's.

all good stuff to listen to. Yeah. So who's like your most your favorite inspirational follow? Is that like a Goggins or who? What mindset do you want to emulate? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot you can learn from all of them. The one that I think I resonate most with is just, you know, Tim Grover, just with the with the sports background and everything he's done and obviously basketball. But he's, you know he's had a hand in all all sports um had experience with everything so that one i think is the is the one that i can resonate most with but um it's always good to get different perspectives too so yeah up you know your podcast goggins um rogan has some some really good guys on there so um just as much as i can get really yeah i liked uh grover's book is it relentless yeah yeah so i mean

his Jordan stories and Kobe stories never get old yeah it's it's pretty for me it's pretty on par with what you would expect from MJ and Kobe love it um yeah and those are the elite performers in in sports so those are the guys that you want to to look at and and you know emulate I guess yeah that mindset I mean that's what I think I don't know there's there's not very many athletes or people that have walked the earth that have that mindset that ultimate competitor, when it all costs or any cost mindset that Kobe and Jordan had. I mean, I love it. Yeah, and I think the cool part, like I said, just trying to get as much from, you know,

people that think differently to you see it, you see it everywhere. And it's not common by any means, but you see it with, you know, sports are easy, but, you know, you see it with the military business, everything like that. And I'm not too, you know, super well-versed in business or anything like that. but I would imagine that, you know, the top end CEOs are, you know, think similar. And, you know, and then there are champions like, you know, like yourself that are doing it on a daily basis that if you didn't have the podcast or anything like that, you'd, you know, not a whole lot of people would know, would know. But it's great that you're sharing it and, you know, lifting everybody else up to. Well, what I, what I, the reason why you're here and why anybody is a guest on the podcast is I'm like kind of drawn to.

outliers no matter what they do and it's kind of the point you're making is like it does I don't care if it's business I've had business people in here scientists of course like Huberman Dr. Rhonda Patrick Andy Galpin which I talked to you about a human performance type guy and it's just like anybody who's at the top of their field or their game or whatever you can learn something from because it took something special for them to get there to where when you say their name people are like oh yeah I've heard of that guy or that girl It's like to get to that place, you have to be a winner, essentially. And to be a winner, you can learn something from them is how I look at it.

Yeah, and there's obviously a certain amount of expertise that you have to have in any field. You know, you have that expertise in bow hunting. I probably have that expertise in baseball. But then, you know, you can have as much expertise as you want. But if you're not an elite, you know, an elite worker, if you don't think, differently I think that's that's you know how I think about it you're not gonna really achieve everything that you can mm-hmm is so in baseball who has had who has that mindset that you came up following or that you see now or does anybody

have what you're what you're going after as far as that your mental approach to the game there you know there it's cool to to be around and it's it's I've had some coaches who you know grover talks about cleaners you know closers and coolers that kind of thing and yeah you can't have a team full of cleaners right and this is you know how i think about it hopefully you know it resonates with other people too but um and i've had coaches that say that you know you can't have more than two cleaners in a locker room you know and they're you know i've had people tell me that they're you know eight cleaners in the whole league that kind of thing and i guess that that you know it depends on how you quantify and measure and that kind of thing what a cleaner is what someone

with that elite mindset is do you know like just for basic definitions like what he's talking about when he says like for the listeners like what's what's a clothes or a cleaner like do you know could you say it right now it's been a while since i've read the book and and seen his actual definitions of it but um is it like the like at the end of the game you You knew Jordan was going to have the ball in his hands. Yeah, that kind of thing. And you see, like, I think the point that he was trying to make is, you know, you hear the ultimate closer, right? And, and his point, I guess, is like, well, where was that person, you know, the rest of the game is kind of, and the cleaners are there the entire game.

Gotcha. Yeah. And hopefully I'm not botching the... Butchering it. Yeah, the explanation of it all. But that's kind of how I understand it. And cleaners are just like everything they do is, you know, to another level. Yeah, yeah.

But the lines are so blurred. Right. It's tough to, you know, to really measure it, I guess. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think we know, I mean, when we talk about competitors, like we said, I think I put Brady in there too. He seems like, you know, different sport, football, basketball, basketball, baseball, baseball I guess you could look at it however you want but Brady seemed like you'd want the ball in his

hands at the end of the game you like your odds and same thing with Jordan Kobe and they weren't looking to really pass it off to anybody everybody knew who was going to take the last shot and it was generally going to be them every time it's just like are you good enough to stop them yeah or can you stop Brady on a drive or you know can you get a hit off you when the game's on the line you know I mean that those moments are probably what that's where every elite competitor wants to excel yeah and I think that that's what the challenge is that a lot everybody says that they want to be in those moments but the challenge really is you know well did you do enough to deserve to be in that moment did you do enough to warrant you know excelling in those moments that kind of thing

because you see you see people who show up who you know get the big hit multiple times And it's like, okay, like that dude's clutch. He has a clutch gene or whatever. And I guess going back to that closer thing, like, well, they, you know, they got the hit. You want them in there when, you know, to get the big hit. But where are they the rest of the time? And, yeah, you know, like I said, the lines are really blurred. But you see it a lot, you know, to get to the major leagues.

You have to be an elite competitor, an elite performer. Yeah. And then, you know, the bar just keeps moving higher, which is, you know, you know, it's cool. And I've seen a lot of different levels in the past year and a half from college to, you know, each, each level in the minor leagues. And then obviously the big leagues too and the bar, obviously it only, you know, keeps growing up. And then, you know, to be the best at each of those levels, the bar keeps going up. And there's, you know, there's always another level you can get to. So you're pretty much satisfied with where you're at right now. You made the big show and that's, you're good now? That's, that's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, no, there's like, I love that, I mean, I don't know, you'd probably say it doesn't matter, but like winning the NL rookie of the year, that would be pretty sick. I like, I like that you want to be the best, basically, is what in talking to you and spending the time with you is that mindset about how can you get an edge, which is what I like.

I think I asked this earlier, but so is who in baseball, has had that, like if you had to emulate yourself, your mindset, have you seen somebody that has it when you were a kid as a fan? Or now do you see it? Who do you look to? Yeah. I mean, one of the coolest things about, you know, my experiences that I've gotten to have in the last six or seven months is like,

you know, these guys kind of predated me a little bit. I probably watched them when I was five or six, but, you know, we talked about Pedro a little bit. you know, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, those kind of guys, Nolan Ryan's obviously, you know, well before my time. So I've gotten to meet a few of those guys and kind of pick their brains a little bit. And there are guys within the game now who have that also, who are going to be the Randy Johnson and, you know, Pedro's and Roger Clemens for the next generation.

Yeah. Who I've gotten to talk to. And so it's been really cool to, you know, because it is a brotherhood. And they're always trying to, you know, build the game, grow the game. And so, you know, being able to do interviews with those guys or just meet them and, you know, speak candidly. You know, the cool thing is getting to speak to those guys kind of away from the cameras. Yeah. And really, you know, get to, you know, dive in with them to where it's not kind of this person.

Because you always put on a persona. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, so getting to meet some of those guys when it's just, you know, too, two guys talking is yeah um you can't walk away from there not learning something it's it's just such a cool humbling experience that you know when I was 15 16 years old I never would have thought I right would have had those opportunities yeah and and hopefully in those candid conversations

there is a nugget you can get that you'll always remember it doesn't always happen but but if it did man that'd be so special yeah I mean at the very least you're walking away from there like dang that was cool yeah yeah um you know not not you're never going to get anything that's going to be like i'm going to change everything about the way that i'm doing based on that one conversation yeah exactly and that that's not how it works but you know walking away from from each of those conversations and you know like you said the little nugget it's it's cool to to get yeah i always thinking when you were listing off those names of people who you followed or admired or like to learn from um those were all, I mean, maybe other than Randy Johnson, even though he did win one, but they were all pretty

much postseason legends. Do you think to be an icon in the sport, you have to get to the World Series? You have to get a win in the World Series. Or can you be, can you be this legendary figure without having that? Yeah. Because when you think of Pedro, I think of like big games. You know what I mean in October? Yeah. And it's, you know, I just, the major league season is a gauntlet is what I've learned. It's so long. Yeah.

And now, you know, there are probably a lot of people out there who are watching the playoffs right now who didn't, maybe didn't watch a whole lot of, you know, regular season ball. And I was kind of that way. Yeah. You know, for part of my life, too. Like, these are the games that, you know, that matter. But you only get there by, you know, because every game. in the regular season matters like yeah I'm not in the postseason right now I know how

hard is that to take it's tough especially it's you know I'm gonna start throwing I'm gonna start start my ramp up for next season before the world series is even over yeah it's a tough pill to swallow I bet um that the the hardest thing I think at the end of the year was that you know there's there's burnout and you know with with the work that you do and And because, you know, like I said, it is such a gauntlet and showing up and doing basically the same thing every single day for 162 games in like 180 or 190 days. It's tough more mentally than physically. And so to be honest, I got tired of the work, but at some point, you know, the ends, you know, justify the means. Yeah.

And being able to go out there and compete and keep competing. Yeah. You'll, in order to do that, you got to do the work. Right. have one without the other you can't have one without the other so um i wasn't ready to you know to hang it up for the year uh i was definitely tired of the work but you know i'll keep doing the work if it means i can keep pitching yeah because you had you had good starts at the end didn't you at the end of the season yeah no finish finish strong and that's you know a goal to to to you know finish stronger than

then you started and whether i did that or not the results were obviously really good but you know that's not something I think about a ton is, you know, the process, you know, getting strike one, getting two out of the first three, that kind of stuff, which is, you know, nitty-gritty baseball talk that you may or may not understand, but that's the stuff that really matters. What was two out of the first three? Two out of the first three pitches and every at bat or strikes. So, oh, two, one, two counts, basically. Okay, that's the goal every time.

Yeah. To stay ahead. Yeah. Every single out bat, try to try to get that. strike one you know two out of the first three that kind of thing you know competitive pitches you know living in the strikes on that kind of thing and yeah those are process oriented goals that are easily quantifiable because it is kind of a game of chance where you can make a really good pitch and they're still going to hit it

you can make a terrible pitch and they're going to swing and miss um but those kind of things are pretty easily quantifiable i think um and i do think that got better as the year went on And so definitely a tough pill to swallow. So how if you want the first two of the three to be strikes, you got to come over the plate with something. Yeah, especially in the big leagues. That was an adjustment for me. So and the good hitters know this, that they're going to get a pitch to hit.

I mean, I don't know if it's going to be hitable, but it's going to be a strike because they know your mindset. So how do you win that at bat when you know they're good? you have to get the strike over the play. So how do you win it? Yeah, I think largely what hitters are trying to do is shrink the strike zone and what pitchers are trying to do is expand the strike zone. If you can get a chase, because if you chase, you swing and miss.

A lot more than, you know, there's a lot more swing and miss outside of the zone than inside the zone. Yeah. But you're getting a lot fewer swings outside the zone than inside the zone. And big league hitters just control the zone so well. having good stuff definitely helps you know pitches that are faster or move more you know that surprise of the hitter that kind of thing that definitely helps so yeah without without really getting into it too much like yeah all that stuff helps and then just forcing swing decisions right you know like I said the chase because hitters will chase if you know if you set it up and do you know with a tendency

each hitter. I mean, do you know that in that much detail? You know, this guy, if he chases, it's usually a pitch like this. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you get that, you know, there's advanced data like that that you can get before, before every series, before, you know, each game that you're pitching, you have scouting report meetings and, you know, with the catchers and the pitching coach and, you know, with a game planning coach and we go over all that. So we get, you know, pretty detailed. And then every guy's different, too. You know, because I'm not going to pitch the same way. is a soft throwing lefty. So you can't attack hitters the same way

because we don't have the same stuff. Right. You know, just having self-awareness about what your stuff is, where your stuff plays, and that kind of thing. That's kind of first and foremost. It's almost like, you know, 70-30.

My stuff versus the hitters. Right. And weakness, that kind of thing. Okay. A lot more, a lot more of our, you know, of our stuff and our plan goes into it, then, you know, determining what the hitters plan and they're, you know, what they execute on goes into it.

You're playing your game more than theirs. What, so I'm not saying what pitch you is your favorite pitch, but what of your pitches surprises the hitters do you think the most? Like, what do they, do you see them and they're like, fuck, where'd that come from? man i don't know um maybe the sinker i think i think my sinker is is it's just a different pitch it's not it's not a pitch that a lot of people have how's yours different it just moves more down i think um and i don't throw it as hard as my foreseam but it moves down more than other sinkers

down to the right yeah and it just gets under barrels you know four seams you're trying to get above the barrel sinkers you're trying to get below the barrel sinkers you're trying to get below the barrel The forcing rises? Yeah. Or, you know, the perception of rise. Okay. Yeah. How so?

Because every, just with gravity, there's going to be, you know, inherently there's going to be drop as it goes to the plate. But I guess compared to other fastballs, you know, from the same slot at the same velocity, that kind of thing. It's going to rise more or be flatter, that kind of thing. And they have the same rotation? My forcing on my sinker. Yeah.

No. We have, you know, we have movement plots that show where the pitches are compared to basically a bullet spin or something that doesn't have the effects of gravity is zero, zero. And so the, you know, the four seam moves up and arm side compared to that. And the two seam kind of just moves right compared to that. Gotcha. So, yeah, without getting into the weeds too much on it. Yeah. And do you change your arm angle at all? I try not to. I might change it a little bit. Exactly the same. Yeah, you try to keep it all the same.

Okay. Gotcha. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. And then I always, this drives me crazy because I, I'll be honest, I don't watch every regular season game. But once it gets to October, it's like I love where I know this is the case for you on every single pitch, every single game. but where every single pitch matters, you know? And it's like, then you see like an, um, might make a call and it should have been striking as a ball. That changes everything. Is that how frustrating is that if you make the perfect pitch, you paint the corner, they call,

then you're behind in the count. And you, your goal obviously was two, the first three, you want strikes. So what if you make that perfect pitch? It goes ball, so now you're in the hole. Just got to execute. Everything always circles back to, back to execute. for me so but it puts a little bit of pressure if that first one is a ball then you're like now I got to really come out you don't want to go oh two yeah yeah so yeah no it's it's it's

uh in my opinion it all even evens out over the course of the season um you know balls get called strikes and strikes get called balls so yeah uh but in the post season you know it's it's best of three best of five best of seven so you don't have as much uh you don't have you don't have you don't have wiggle room. You know, you got to just execute and everybody needs to go out there and do their jobs. Yeah. So, yeah, those probably hurt a little bit more in the postseason. During the regular season, you know, everybody gets pissed off and that kind of thing. Yeah. I think it all evens out because, you know, you lose a game in May. You can, you know, it sucks. You can probably make it up and, you know, later in the year, team gets hot, that kind of thing. So I think it all evens out,

but it doesn't all even out in the post season. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who's been the best big game pitcher you've seen that you remember? Oh. The one that probably jumps to the front of my mind right now is Aaron Nola, who just seen, I mean, he seems like he always shows up in the postseason, LSU guy. Yeah. I think Verlander's probably up there.

I can't. I can't remember. I loved the chilling performance with the blood on the sock. Yeah. Remember that one? I don't know. What was that? 2004?

I don't know. Were you born? I was born. Yeah. I don't remember ever watching that. I went to the Hall of Fame when I was like 11 or 12 and I saw the Bloody Sock. That was pretty sick. Yeah.

I remember the cool things like I remember Chris Sale, you know. running out. He's closing game seven or whatever it was in Dodger Stadium when he was with the Red Sox on, I don't know, two or three days rest or something like that. Those moments are awesome. He's closing out the World Series. Those are cool. I don't want to misspeak with who's the best big game pitcher I've ever seen. I remember Jake Arietta when the Cubs are were winning and gosh who was the royals ace those years I can't remember I have a terrible memory it's all good yeah those are those are the games you want to you want to watch for yeah I offense is great but for me as a as a pitcher and all that you know you want to see someone go

seven eight nine shuddy in the postseason I can't remember if it was it seems like it was the Red Sox and I don't know if it was shilling I can't remember but you always kind of do the math you're like well they're down but if they could get a win here then it goes back to Boston or whatever it is and then they could bring this guy back on short you know short rest or whatever and then in game seven anything can happen i love just stuff like that yeah it gets crazy yeah they love saying that game seven anything can happen anything can and it's but it's so exciting because every freaking pitch matters yeah i just i don't know pretty pretty amazing um yeah i've seen didn't like you probably this is before you're born probably but when kirk gibson hit that

Homer where he's limping around did you ever see that one I've seen clips of it yeah so many times yeah he's like could barely run or whatever but they put him up to pinch hit I think and he drove one out yeah on the game yeah doing the fist pump around the face is that one iconic oh god yeah but then even back before that so I don't remember what year it was but we had this is a PED era but bonds so-so-Meguire just jacking homers all the time it was such a great time to be a face Yeah. I grew up an Angels fan. I remember videos of Bonds hitting home runs in the World Series against the Angels. Yeah. And it's just, you know, when Bonds was going after that record when he got

73, I think, they would, you'd be watching a regular TV. They would cut in for his, at the bottom would be him, his at bat every time. Because it's like, I don't know how often he came up, but he was hitting homers all the, you know, that's a lot of homers. Yeah. Like per bat. And then if I remember it seemed like if the picture made even the hint of a mistake, it's freaking gone. Yeah.

I mean, is there anybody like that right now that you can't make any mistake? Yeah. And I think it's, yeah. No, I mean, you see it with Otani. You see it with Judge Soto. You know, Freddie Freeman is a tough at bat. Who else? Aronado is an unbelievable hitter.

Do you like going against those guys? It's cool. Yeah. It is. Do you like the challenge of best first? Well, I don't know if you were saying you're the best, but you're, I mean, you're right there. Is the best against best? Is that exciting?

Yeah. And I gave up a home round to Otani early in the year. And they asked me about a post game and I was just like, yeah, it's big on big. You know, that's how I think about it. What was the pitch? Fastball. Oh. You know, it's, I'm going to get beat at my best.

He's, he's going to, you know, he's going to do what he will with it. There's always the risk when you, I mean, when you face anybody, but especially those guys. How fast was it? Do you remember? I don't remember. It was hard. Yeah. I think it was a three, two fastball up in the zone.

Oh. We had shown him too many fastballs already. But, yeah. I mean, it's what happens. It's, it's the game. Yeah. I mean, if he couldn't have caught up with it and struck out, it'd be cool too, isn't it? Yeah.

But he won that one. Yeah, stuff happens. Yeah, yeah. But you, that challenge you like or you just like to blow the doors off anybody? Yeah, I mean, the challenge is always good. And there's, you know, there's usually there's at least one or two per lineup, you know, because big league lineups are so good, so deep. And there's always at least one person in every lineup that you can't get away with.

mistakes really yeah um and so facing those guys you know your focus your attention is heightened a little bit um you want to execute every pitch because if you don't you're you're you're gonna you're pay a little bit be a highlight yeah yeah yeah it's gonna be run on on tv what's uh so like on that one he hit the home what what's your mindset after that pitch whatever get the next one yeah um just right back to work yeah execute Yeah. Everything, everything circle back to execution.

Yeah. Do you think, do you think guys make a bad pitch and then it bleeds over into the next that bat? Yeah. And I think it gets better with every level, I think. You know,

because guys are in the, guys are in the big leagues for a number of reasons, you know, whether it's talent mentality. Because there are guys that you see in there that are like, you know, that I've had long careers in the big leagues. And they're like,

how are they still pitching? and they just have an unbelievable mentality, you know, to get hitters out. And, you know, they still have good stuff. And because obviously if you don't have good stuff, you're not going to get hitters out. But, you know, a great mentality, you know, gets you really far and, you know, everything. But there are definitely some guys that are, you know, emotional pitchers that get caught up and, you know, turning the page and that kind of thing. and um but you know you see a lot of different ways to compete and that that's not necessarily a wrong way um no because because you give up a home run and then uh and then your velo spikes up your

execution gets better that kind of thing so what's a velo velocity oh gotcha you're throwing velocity yeah okay um yeah you start throwing your pitches harder yeah yeah exactly so uh i mean you're in the big leagues either way you're if you're successful in the big leagues there's you know nobody can point at you and say you're you're doing it wrong you're i mean you're having success in the big league so yeah you know that mentality i think of uh well when brady when the Patriots played at land in the Super Bowl i remember he threw this interception i'm pretty sure it's a pick six and he anyway he was on all fours like kind of dove and then was on all fours there goes the db or whoever uh intercepted it And they went down 28 to 3.

They'd be really easy to get down. But obviously everybody knows a history. Patriots come back and won it. But, you know, just like that attitude is so you make a mistake on a pitch or you throw an interception, you can't let it affect the next pitch or the next drive, you know, for in football. And Brady was so good at that because it would be really easy to be like, what the fucking disaster, down 28 to 3. but with that mindset he was able to turn it around and come back and lead his team to a win yeah incredible huh yeah i think there's a lot to be said about you know just staying staying here the whole time yeah staying level not not you know riding the highs and the lows and i definitely

rode the i rode the roller coaster a little bit as a hitter there's a there's a reason i'm not hitting anymore but um yeah definitely a lot more even keeled as a pitcher and that that's you know kind of my style i think and again it's not for every But, you know, those are the guys that I try to, you know, emulate, I guess that I, you know, look at. Yeah. How, like, as a hitter, how is your attitude different? Just, I wasn't very good at taking, you know, I struck out. I took it into the next step, that, you know, start chasing pitches and that kind of thing.

It's just, it's such a failure-driven sport, especially as a hitter. Like, you know, if you can't, if you can't turn the page, you're not going to succeed, no matter who you are. Yeah. So, yeah. even the best what is it it's like not going to be four out of 10 yeah and that's 400 you know so three out of tens are you're failing 70% of the time yeah and you're a whole famer yeah i know isn't that crazy yeah yeah it's uh what a sport i don't know it's it you know it was able to watch you or no it didn't watch you pitch i've seen you seen you uh on tv pitch i've never seen you pitch in person

but i you know your mentality i just love the competition part of it And I want the pirates to be good though. Yeah. I want you to get to the World Series. Yeah. No, well, I think we got a good group. You make that happen? Just got to make it happen.

Exactly. Got to go take it. So the question I was thinking about earlier when we were lifting is favorite baseball movie. And then also, or did you come up with one yet? I think, I think Field of Dreams has to be it. Because it's just such a, like the romance of baseball, the, um, you know, just, it's just an iconic movie with, you know, iconic players from, you know, the 1920s, 1930s, that kind of thing. Obviously, you know, he goes to Fenway, which is just one of the cathedrals of baseball, really.

Yeah. And it's just all around, just the romance of baseball, like how much it means to a lot of people. It is, it's tough to pick one, you know, because there are a lot of other really good ones that are humorous. and show, you know, kind of some of the other parts of baseball, but that's like, I think that that one kind of encapsulates the game, you know, pretty well. My favorite, money ball. Yeah. Have you seen Moneyball?

Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. I like that. I don't know if that's really how the business of baseball is, but do you remember, like, cutting, when they're cutting players and things like that? I think, well, Brad Pitt, who's you playing, Billy Bean? But yeah, just how he's dealing with players. I mean, it seems it was business.

But I think sometimes fans forget how much of a business it is. You guys probably never forget. But yeah, it made some tough decisions. And I love that movie. Yeah, no, it's a good one. And business, you know, that's, you know, it's a kid's game. We're playing it, you know, because we love it. And, you know, I don't know what else I do, but there's inherently that business side of it.

people are you know trying to make money and that kind of thing which is you know reflected in that movie and he's figuring out how to do it and in uh you know a cost-effective manner and um so it yeah definitely some good insight into that side of baseball other than the you know like i said the romance of it all yeah now there was some some romance in it they won you know 21 or 22 straight or how many it was which is um you know an all-time streak and it's pretty cool to yeah to look at um and think about but But yeah, that's a good one. That one's insightful.

Yeah, I remember I think Art Howe was a manager and he was like the old school guy, remember, and he didn't want to, he had his players, he was going to play. How accurate do you think that is on like personalities of managers and who they're select? And how maybe we can't even answer that. But it's just like I could see you got these guys. I think he had, it wasn't Jason Giambi. I think was his brother, but they ended up cutting him. You know, and he was kind of a big name for that team.

That's got to be tough. The business part of baseball, right? Yeah. I mean, how involved have you seen anything like that? Have you not really noticed just being a rookie or? Yeah, I've noticed it a little bit, just more so with guys like talking about, you know, we played the, we played the Royals.

And other guys are talking about Adam Frazier's on the Royals. And he was with the Pirates for a good bit. guys are talking about how they, you know, miss him. They love playing with him, that kind of thing. And I never got a, you know, personal relationship with him or anything. But, you know, kind of what I said about the brotherhood of baseball, like, it's, it is cool to, you know, be playing against some of these guys, you know, you see Otani and he like, you know, tips his cap, that kind of thing before ever he got bad. There's just some mutual respect there. And who knows? Like, these guys could get traded to the pirates.

Guys could get traded away from the pirates and we're playing against them and that kind of thing. And, you know, you play the game for long enough. You play for different teams. You, that kind of thing. You get around a lot of different people. And it really does make it even more of a brotherhood. Again, I've been in the game for six months, really. But I could see that with some of my teammates, like how much they care for guys that we were playing against.

and you know, which it's part, it's because of the business side of baseball, but you make friendships and, you know, that kind of thing, which is something that I'm really looking forward to. How that it seems hard, though, like the teamwork part, I get it in the professional sports. You want that brotherhood. But also it's like you're only judged on what you've done essentially. You know, so you might be have this brotherhood with the team. But if you're batting a buck 50, it doesn't matter how good a teammate you are, does it? No. And it sucks because it doesn't matter how good of a teammate you are and they're going to say,

hey, you're getting sent down. You're getting traded. You're getting cut, whatever it is. And so that's the heartbreaking part of it. Like, dang, I wish you could have stuck around. I wish I could have played with him longer. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, that's the business side of baseball. Yeah. What, like, what do you think makes a good teammate? Oh, man. Well, how, if you're, because you can control yourself, how are you a good teammate to the other guys? I think first and foremost, just doing controlling what you can control, like with, with the work you do, um, showing up every day and doing your job, I think, like, um, because it sucks, you know, the, the, the job is to win baseball games, right? And so.

But that's only every five days for you. Yeah. And so and then in the time between, you know, I'm doing the work to get ready to pitch. Yeah. Every fifth day. So when you say showing up to work on days you're not pitching, that's doing your training, doing your everything else, right? Because you're still showing up to work.

It's just not, you're not technically punching in to get on the mound, but it still work. Yeah. And I think, you know, it starts there. That's the absolute minimum, you know, to make it to the big leagues, right? because you're going to get to the show because of what you can do on the field. And then you get there. And, you know, this isn't to say that you change everything that you do once you get there. But, you know, then within those five days, there's things that you can do to help get other people prepared.

Whether it's conversations or, you know, I guess just, you know, making everybody around you better is a good way to think about it too. So, you know, I had some really cool people this year who weren't super vocal, but I got to watch them work every day and learn from them. And we would have conversations whenever it came up. But, you know, being able to watch them work and go about their business, you know, made me better. So it's making the team better, you know, and helping me, you know, do my job better. And hopefully I'm helping them do their job better, you know, ideally. but yeah i think i think it all you know goes back to controlling what you can control yeah i you know i don't know i haven't been obviously in that situation but one of my weaknesses is is i if i

see something i don't agree with i say something and like that causes issues sometimes but yeah maybe that's not a weakness though i don't know i don't some people like if they get offended or think you're a dick or whatever is it helping but it's just like I don't know anytime anybody's ever been honest with me about something and I might like push back because nobody likes to be judged but then you go if you're reflective you can go away and be like actually right yeah so how I mean how hard is that with people because you're young coming in there um do you mostly just try to just learn and absorb or do you ever offer feedback if you see something that's that's pretty much what this year was looked like is just learning and absorbing um just

because you know there's obviously the on-field stuff and you can you can learn about another you can learn about your own process through another player watching what they're doing um you know hey hey why do you you know throw this pitch or how do you throw this pitch and that kind of thing and learning from that and those conversations are never going to stop but there's a lot of other stuff like, you know, how you travel, how you, you know, show up to the field every day, how, you know, just being a pro, that kind of thing. And there's a lot of learning on that end that, you know, that I did this year and that there is to do. But so that that's what this, that's what this year looked like for the most part for me. And, you know, next year is not going to look the same. I don't know exactly what it's going to look like for me next year. But that's, you know, pretty much how it went this year. Gotcha. So how self-assessment on this year, how'd you do? I learned a lot.

Yeah. For sure. I think it was good to, because I was in big league spring training, you know, pitched against some big leaguers there, but spring training isn't, isn't an accurate assessment of where you are, I think, just because you're facing hitters who are trying to work on their own stuff. You're trying to work on your own stuff. So spring training is just different.

no doubt and to be honest my the situation I was in this year was different than a lot of other people as they were coming through um because I you know they didn't you know tell me exactly when I was going to debut I you know had a good feeling that I was going to debut this year I just didn't know whether it was going to be you know April May June that kind of thing um and it kind of it kind of became clear as the as the debut you know came closer but um And so, you know, starting in AAA was good because it allowed me to ramp up, allowed me to learn how to face these these hitters, these elite hitters. And there are a lot of big league hitters that are in AAA, whether they're rehabbing or they're, you know, down there because they're just trying to find it a little bit, that kind of thing. So just learning how to pitch to those guys and then get to the big leagues and you're, you know, you're constantly, you know, learning.

The biggest thing, I think, is that the game doesn't change. It's just people change. Hitters get better, pitchers get better, that kind of thing. And then you just have to adjust how you're executing each pitch. But if you have big league stuff, you have big league stuff. Yeah. And, you know, you should be in the big leagues. So what did you learn?

Like, you said there was adjustment at AAA pitching there. Like, what was the difference between there in college? hitters can execute their plan more often I think and that they have better plans because you know and they have better eyes like you know the the mechanics of the game are better in triple a than they are in college now there are guys that are really toolsy you know in college and this year you know white langford broke with with Texas and Dylan you know was my teammate at LSU he was in the big leagues this year and there are a couple of other guys from from our draft last year and who got to the big leagues this year, which shows that guys' tools in college, because it's not like they, you know, got, you know, made leaps and bounds in the off season or during the season. They just kind of learned the game a little bit better. Right.

Their plan got better and that kind of thing. So guys' tools in college, not everybody, but guys' tools in college are pretty dang good. And then it's a matter of like learning the game, I think. So I know it was kind of the same thing for me. Now hitting and pitching are very, you know. different. The growth period and the adjustment period is very different. So, but yeah, it was just how I was executing each pitch. Like, you know, you can't throw the fastball that's two balls off and expected to get called a strike anymore because the umpires are better. So, you know, you got to be

more on the on the white over the plate and then, you know, learning what hitters are trying to do, reading hitters, that kind of thing. And, you know, that's a never-ending process. I think the thing I was most pleased with was just going out there and no matter what, just executing to the highest level that I could. But outing to outing, just learning, learning more about facing hitters and learning more about the league. So what was your self-assessment? Like out of 10? Probably like an eight and a half. Eight and a half. I think. So good. I mean, ERA under two is pretty amazing. Is that better than what you expected? What did you expect of yourself? I didn't have any like numerical expectations really because you know I didn't know what what to expect on the airway side on the strikeouts the walk percentage any of that like I just didn't know what to expect it's just go out there and compete to the highest level every single day that's I mean that's a pretty you seems like it could be well maybe it's not unique but baseball so analytic numbers on everything so

like for you to say like you just want to compete that is kind of refreshing to hear i'm i'm assuming that's i don't know how other people feel but like there's a number on everything you guys do but uh you know i would say you know your era was elite and i know your strikeouts per nine i think we're way up there right compared to other people but uh yeah i was just curious about how you thought if you you know did you leave stuff on the table you could have done better at um you felt like man for my first year i think i kicked ass eight and a half i think it's pretty good felt pretty good about your year right yeah like i think there's some low hanging fruit to get better for next year um you know on the execution side the stuff side there's some stuff that i can

uh do to you know refine my pitches and pitch qualities that kind of thing um but um you know at the you know like i said at the end of the day it's just you know go out there and compete to like highest level that I know how to so I didn't have and I and I don't think I'll have any expectations going forward about you know what numbers I want to accomplish and that kind of thing other than then there are some numbers you know like the early and ahead percentage of two out of three you know those those numbers matter more to me I think than ERA and strike out percentage and that kind of thing gotcha because they're their process oriented numbers and give you a good If you do the two out of three, you're going to have probably the other numbers are going to be good.

Yeah, they're going to take care of themselves. Yeah. Everything's going to take care of them to take care of itself, I think, if you do what you're supposed to do. Really? Yeah. I was curious about this. How important or how much you pay attention to body language of like the hitter coming up? Like, do you have a, I don't know, when I remember playing and like you're watching the picture. You're seeing how he's, what his, you can almost see an attitude a little bit.

And then as hitter, do you ever, you know, there's like the old adage about, oh, well, they're warming up. That's where they like the ball, right? Yeah. You know, do you look at like how that particular person at that particular bat, how they're reacting to things? Or are you just trying to get the ball over the plate? Yeah, I've gotten better about reading body language and that kind of thing.

I'm by no means an expert at it. But nice thing is I had a couple catchers this year that probably are experts at it who are very good at reading body language of the hitters and what they're trying to, what they're sitting on, what they're trying to accomplish with each pitch. So I put a lot of trust in them and they helped me out a lot this year. Yeah. And that's, you know, to some extent, like I just don't see a lot of it just because I'm focused on. Yeah, you know.

You said 70 30. So 70%'s on you. Yeah. And to be honest, it might even be more than that. Like it might be 80, 20. But the 20, I think, a lot of it, you know, if there's a glaring hole, like these guys can't hit sinkers. This guy can't hit sinkers down and in. Or he's going to chase in off the plate down and in against a sinker.

Like, so I, you know, I can expand that way with the sinker, which plays into my strengths. But. And then, and then the, you know, also within the 20%, it's, you know, well he's he's you know scooting up in the box or he's you know off the plate that kind of thing and then you know what why is he doing that and that stuff that I've I haven't really um gotten really good at I've started to look for it but I haven't gotten very good at it and our catchers are a lot better at it than I am so I you know put a lot of trust in them for it so you can get better at that yeah yeah I always if I don't know how I would look at it but

I'm sure you look at hitter trends. You know if they're in a slump, they want to try to do something. So I don't know how that affects are at bat, whether they're just like, maybe I just need to get on base or the best way out of slump is probably getting a hit. So are they going to chase something more

if they've been struggling? Or do you look at like if guys are having personal issues that are in the news, are they going to be, is that going to affect how they can focus? You know, I would be thinking about all that stuff, but I overthink everything. Yeah, I think the,

You can go down some rabbit holes with that stuff for sure. Yeah. I think the slump one is a good example because, you know, you swing your way out of a swamp, out of a slump. Yeah. So maybe they'll chase more. You know, got super common. Are you thinking of that as a pitcher? A little bit.

Okay. I think more like runners in scoring position, guys swing more. They chase more because they're trying to make something happen. That's another example of that. Yeah, you know Maybe and that stuff You know Allows you to like expand the zone maybe a little bit more

Yeah, okay I just started thinking to something else God what the hell Oh how often are they calling hit and runs these days Like how do you know Not super often? Not very often No

You'll see it occasionally And it's very it's team based You see you see it with some teams some managers a lot more than others and we'll get that in the in the scouting report too but um yeah hit and runs bunting it doesn't it doesn't happen a ton anymore especially bunting for a hit no small ball type is that called small ball yeah it's it's not uh it's not as common um definitely as it used to be for me because i you know my high school team we couldn't we wouldn't we wouldn't sniff the field if we couldn't lay a bun

down. Oh, really? Yeah, that's just how our coach was. Yeah, just get on base. You know, and that's, that's how Southern California high school baseball is too. So yeah, yeah, it was frustrating when we got, when I would go to LSU or when I went to Air Force or LSU and I'm practicing with those guys who were practicing hitting runs and bunts and that kind of thing and these guys don't know how to lay down a bun. I'm like, what are, what are they doing in high school? And I just thought that was, that was how everyone was. But yeah, I guess not everybody knows how to lay down a bun or hit and run. Yeah.

Go bang. I was just curious because, you know, hit and run, I didn't know if you could anticipate that coming. So then you're throwing, you know, you don't want them to get the ball on the bat. Yeah, it's super. It doesn't happen a ton. Yeah. With buntz, I think if you're anticipating it, like my high school coach would have us

throw changeups when we knew they were bunting because then you like stab at it. Right. If you think they're stealing, you can go pitch out. I don't know if I threw a pitch out the entire year this year. So, yeah, it's different for sure in the big leagues compared to, like, college for that. I bet, yeah. Yeah, I didn't know. I haven't really been paying attention to see how often that's happening these days.

I like it. I like a good hit and run, though, when, you know, the runner gets going. Yeah, no, it'll get a rally going for sure. Scoring from first or something like that. Those are tough as a pitcher. Yeah, I bet. I bet. Yeah, also I was thinking, so as a pitcher, how would you have taken this?

Because I remember I talked about bonds back in the day coming in live, but I remember one time, I think, bases were loaded. They walked them intentionally. Yeah. How, as a pitcher, how would that have made you feel? They would have said walk him. Yeah, that would have been frustrating. Because you're walking in Iran. Yeah.

And you don't even get a chance to compete, really. Yeah. Yeah, just take, yeah. I mean, you're taking the bat out of his hands, which is... You're not giving up four runs. Yeah, you're definitely not giving up four runs. Or maybe you are. Who knows?

Next guy could get a hit. Yeah, you might give up five with a grandson on the next one. Yeah. Yeah, I just did, I was curious about as you, as an elite competitor, how that would have went over. Yeah, I wouldn't like that very much. And we saw it a couple. I think they did that to Trout a few years ago.

Mm-hmm. And then, I guess on another. They did it with a judge, and I think they did it with somebody else this year where they intentionally walked in with nobody on. It might have been, it might have been judged twice. It was judge, and then I think it was somebody else, but that would be pretty frustrating because, you know, at the very least, it's like, you know, well, you know, I can live with it. I give up a home run or, you know, a double or whatever.

Maybe you struck them out. But, you know, there's some unknown there. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I wonder, I mean, I don't know how that would affect, you know, as a pitcher, you'd be like, I guess the manager doesn't believe in me, doesn't believe I can get this guy out. That would be a tough pill to swallow for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because he's basically choosing right there, you're not as good as this guy. Yeah. And I would imagine there are probably some conversations that were had outside of the public eye with that kind of thing. But yeah, that's a, I mean, it's a choice. How important is like, so you never want to show up your manager, like that body link or staying like not cussing under your breath. How often do you have to think about all that stuff or getting upset like somebody you're playing or a teammate?

Is it hard to like never have a reaction? Yeah, I mean sometimes and it's kind of. Because people take that. They like now they'll zoom in on every. Yeah, they see everything. Yeah. And I think part of it is like it's not, you know, super my personality to do that. Yeah. There are some other guys who. And if I, you know, you see guys like put their glove up to them. Yeah. I wonder. I wonder what they're saying. Yeah. And it's just like, hey, bro, just say it. That's kind of how I see it. Yeah. Like, who cares? Yeah. I like to see that emotion. Yeah. I think it's funny. Yeah. Do you know? Do you know? That's kind of how I see it. Like, like, hey, say it. Like, like, I think it's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know. I think it's funny. Yeah. Do you know. Yeah. Do you know. I think it. Yeah. know they care yeah no you're not screaming in your glove if you don't care right exactly i i mean i i just love competitors but uh i was also i just thought about this when you said put the go up to your face how often i maybe you can't even talk about it maybe this is taboo too but uh there

it used to be like people would have shit like rubbing their face have the stuff on i can't remember if it's pine tar is that still happening it might be i don't know they check our hands every hands gloves Do they? You know, belt hat, whatever. Did somebody get in trouble this year for that? I think it happens every year. It's tough because especially, you know, it's humid or something. You know, guys wear sunscreen still, like sunscreen's legal.

But it's the line is so blurry with that kind of thing. Yeah. Because you put rosin on and then sunscreen and rosin just gets sticky. Yeah. And then the umpire feels your hands and, oh, yeah, that's too much. I see. Even if you're not intentionally and guys still intentionally do stuff to, yeah.

to, you know, get an edge, I guess, and that's part of the game. But, yeah, like, if you have sunscreen on and it just happens to be sticky, and they say, yeah, you know, then you're getting tossed and you didn't even try to do anything, which is tough. Isn't it weird how, and maybe football and everything's like this? Because, you know, they say, like, you call holding on every playing football, right? But in baseball, like, there's been an art to, like, getting an edge a little bit, you know, whether it's that something to get a little more grip on the ball.

I don't know. There's been whatever the, who was it? Was it the Astros who were doing the trash can stuff? Yeah. I mean, it's like that's almost like part of the game. Yeah, I think so. Is it? Yeah.

And, you know, it's not, you know, kind of where the game's at right now. And we don't, you know, we don't do finger signs anymore. It's just it's just the pitch. But stealing signs was a thing. Stealing signs. Yeah. And that's like, you know, with a run around second, they're relaying. You see it now with like pitch tipping, you know, guys relaying that kind of stuff.

It's just part of the game. You can get pissed off and throw it, throw at the hitter, I guess. But they're still going to have your pitches. Is a pitcher if he's going to do throw a slider, he does something? Yeah, like he comes set differently in his glove or something like that, you know, his wrist angle or he's not, he's not as far in or farther in to his glove, that kind of thing. and they see everything. Yeah. These days, like, you know, got cameras and all that that they can see a whole lot of stuff

with, you know, the tiniest detail. Yeah, because back in the day, like, there was cork bats. Like that, they would, you know, bats would break and then it'd be cork in. I can't remember who. But, and then I remember George Brett, he has pine tar way up his bat. Yeah. I think he hit a homer got thrown out or something like that. Yeah.

But it just made me think that it's not cheating, but it's just like gamesmanship. It's like, what can you get away with? I don't know. It's just kind of cool that way. Yeah, no, you always got to push the envelope with that kind of thing, I guess. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. But so on the, on the, what do you say, tipping the pitches?

But do you do the same thing every single time? Or do you ever intentionally like do something different? knowing people are watching? I do my best to do the same thing. Exactly. And there are some guys who do do things differently. They, you know, wave their glove or something like just differently every pitch that you can't see any tendencies or anything like that. Just change it up and I kind of go the other way.

I just try to do the same thing every time. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. I don't know. Pretty interesting. Those cameras have definitely, you know, if there is a tell, somebody's going to figure it out. Somebody's going to find it. Yeah.

cameras but there's also like um i don't even know what it is and it can basically like a motion capture i guess and it tracks everything where your body is and then you can like overlay it um on a computer system and then it's it takes all the guesswork out of it where it yeah it's they go into detail and and there you know there's money in in uh in picking pitches you know like like the money ball thing if you're trying to buy wins that's a for sure an easy way to buy wins yeah um yeah so what's uh yeah that's all interesting i didn't even plan on asking any of that stuff but i was just thinking about that man the game is so detailed you know people say and there's some people like maybe not baseball fans who watch baseball and be like god this is boring but it's like it's the

there's so so much little gamesmanship going on and in games within the games with the pitch count or anything, you know, an error or so much can go affects the game. It's just, I mean, I just love it. Yeah. I love all the detail to it. Yeah. I don't know.

It seems different than other sports a little bit. Yeah. And it probably is boring. It kind of bores me sometimes, I guess, if I'm watching the wrong game. But, yeah, it's, you know, there's a lot of detail. and, you know, little, little things that go into winning baseball that, you know, that a lot of people don't pick up on or they do. And then that's why they watch the game. And yeah, when you're in it, it's different than being, you know, watching it as a fan for sure. Yeah. You know what's stayed the, it seems like it stayed the same. Correct me if I'm wrong. But NBA, it used to be like Jordan, Kobe, that was their team. They were on that team pretty much forever. I mean, I know Jordan went to the Wizards way late. But now it's like the super teams kind of, they can assemble, get these stars and win a championship.

Baseball still seems like it's you're pretty much on that team for quite a while. Is that how it is now or guys are there's no super teams being created. Is there really? Yeah. I guess maybe the Yankees. They always have maybe they pay that. What is it? The luxury tax to sign all these guys.

Yeah, there are definitely teams that are willing to, you know, pay a lot. more than others but I think that gap is a lot smaller than the you know the money might indicate just because like the talent levels are pretty comparable I think and you know not everybody is you know is the same obviously so but baseball is such a weird game too that you know a AAA team might be able to you know beat the Yankees or something like that on any given day like Like it's just a weird game that, you know, there is a lot up to chance. And, you know, you're trying to hit a round ball with a round bat and you're trying to hit it square. And, you know, some guys, you know, you have nine guys that have a bad game.

You're losing that game. Yeah. So there's a lot that goes into chance. And so I think it's different from basketball and football probably in that way. But, yeah, it's just, you know, there's a lot that goes into it and a lot of chance. and I don't want to call it luck or chance but it's kind of it's just it's different yeah it's um yeah it's just it doesn't seem like the stars are moving around too much in baseball i don't know unless i'm not thinking of it right yeah i think uh i don't know i don't pay a

lot of attention to basketball or football, but the, you know, a rookie car, uh, you know, a player's on a team for at least six years basically until they can get to free agency and then free agencies, you know, you can sign a 10 year deal, you can sign a one year deal, that kind of thing. So the moving around kind of happens. And, and then you can get traded at any point in there too. Yeah. Um, but I would agree. I don't think that the, you know, I don't think guys move around as much. Yeah, it didn't seem like it. I was just thinking about that. Yeah, it's like hopefully whatever franchise drafts you, they want a simple like the best team also and not just satisfied with just competing. But yeah, because I just don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Everybody wants to get to

the World Series for sure. Yeah. It takes. Yeah, I don't know how, I mean, what's the most important part to making like a world series type contender do you think it's i mean is it five quality starters i have no idea um or is it big bats yeah or i have no idea um you got to make the perfect team you're yeah the GM well no i'm biased at five five really good starters for sure um no and then hit and running buntz and then hitting run and buntz yeah win one another occasional occasional home run maybe but yeah I don't know and I've I mean you look at the all the teams in the postseason right now they have good starting pitching they have a good lineup yeah they have a good bullpen you know at the in summer have better bullpins than others

some are better starting pitching than others better lineups that kind of thing but I mean you kind of got to be good at everything I think but I'm I'm not a GM and I've only been in this game for like six months I know I know I know No. Yeah. There are definitely teams that you play throughout the year that are like, damn, this is a, this is an elite team. This team, you know, they have a shot.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't know what the secret sauce is. Yeah, you know, because I'm wondering, yeah, is it, is it all money? Because if you look at a lot of the, a lot of teams. that make it consistently to postseason are kind of the same seems like it's the same teams yeah um and i think that you know they call it windows like you have a window to win yeah um with you know because teams are rebuilding and that kind of thing too right because um just because of how the organization

is um is built i guess is you know they're built on homegrown talent or they're built on free agents or whatever. Yeah. But yeah, I think, I think, you know, you do see a lot of the same teams that are constantly in the playoffs. And then there are other teams that are, you know, not very far off. Yeah. You know, the Red Sox, the Blue Jays, like those kind of teams, like that, you know, they're

going to do what it takes to get in there. And, you know, so they'll probably be in there next year. are a lot of teams like that but um but there are you know a lot of teams that are constantly in it and there's probably a reason for that yeah yeah yeah it's interesting so uh what like what's your goals what's your goals for this coming season in your career yeah just i mean i got to be better than than i was this past year yeah um that's what that's what the off season is going to be geared toward and spring training and everything um just executing at a higher level than than this past season and and i don't think that's necessarily going to show up in

a or strikeout percentage or anything like that but i think i'll know it you know within myself whether it was it was better or worse than than this past season but that's that's what everything's going to be geared toward do you think that how much of that is physical compared to your mental approach i mean can you get better physically and then but where's mostly growth can happen mentally yeah i think it's it's a little bit of both um and at this point it's it's you know the 1% advantages i think like you know diet and recovery and lifting and that kind of thing and then you know learning the hitters too like on the mental side just learning the hitters figuring out what you know what i need to do to execute more effectively against them and so those

growths are you know going to happen i'm going to do a deep dive into the off into the past season at some point i haven't done it yet but um you know and really get a plan together for how i can how i can get better but um yeah that's that's what it's gonna look like just really try to elevate every single part of my game you know if if if not by a lot than by a little but get better everywhere i think incremental gains in a bunch of different places hopefully yeah yeah i mean because we were we were talking about that even i think when i went to your game It's like even from the cleats, you know, if you get more power transfer off those, off your cleats into the, your delivery.

I mean, like, who knows how much of that little bit could make a difference. But man, from the ground up, if you could just improve and then plus also have this approach, like we're talking about Greg Maddox earlier and how he would like, he didn't have the stuff like what you have as far as overpowering stuff. but man, he knew exactly what he wanted to do with each pitch and knew the tendencies of each of the pitch batter up there. But yeah, I mean, it seems like, you know, the what you could learn in that regard is almost unlimited. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know where the line would be like, I can't waste my time now. But it seems like, man, there's a lot of room for growth there. Yeah. And there are, you know, sometimes there's going to be a light bulb that goes off at point and you know sometimes you're also sometimes you're also just going to figure it out and maybe not even know you're you're figuring it out yeah um so it's in and there are some things that you can see like oh this guy does this when he's in the box and and so you know look for that and then I know he's looking for this pitch like um so there's a lot of that and and you know you can

you can figure out some of that when you're in the off season but a lot of it I think is in you know, real game action and getting around other people who have seen them and been around them, that kind of thing. And then the game's always changing too. You know, you look at catchers, you know, over the past 10 years, you know, in 2015, the catching style was very different than it is today. That's because, you know, people have found that there are more effective ways to receive pitches and get, you know, steal strikes, that can keep strikes, strikes, that kind of thing.

Yeah. And that one's very obvious, I think, because, you know, you're always watching the catcher, but you also see it in, you know, field positioning or whatever it is. So the game in, you know, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years, it's going to be very different than how it is today. So just continuing to evolve on that end. How much of success of a pitcher do you think is really? related to the catcher?

I think it depends on the guy. Because I've heard about, you know, some catchers. Guys would talk about Austin Hedges, who was with the pirates for, I think last year, you know, Yasmati Granddoll, Joey Bart were my catchers this year. And they were really good for me. And I'm not going to, you know, if you ask them, they'll probably say that my success was because of them. But I'm just kidding.

It definitely doesn't hurt to have a good catcher who sees that kind of thing. I know how to call the game. The goal, I think the goal is to be as self, um, dependent, I guess. Like, I don't, I don't need anything, uh, from, from the outside. You're not relying on anybody else to succeed. Yeah. Yeah.

As little reliance on other people to where it's just, you know, I'm going out there. Yeah. I know myself. I know my game. I know them. But, you know, the, the, the nice. part about having a good catcher is they make you better. So it's not like a good catcher can make or break you.

I don't think that's how it should be, but definitely doesn't help to have a good catcher. Yeah. No, I mean, I was just thinking about this right now too, but if a catcher and the ump aren't getting along for whatever reason, it could affect your pitch calls, right? I mean, or it's like how that up is calling your pitches and it'd be like, Dude, what the fuck? Why are you fucking getting this guy on our bad side? Does that ever happen?

That's never happened to me. Okay. It might happen that, you know, another cool thing or whatever. You know, another thing about pro ball in general is you're going to see umpires a lot. And you see it's the same thing in college too. You're going to see umpires more than once. You're going to see, you know, I've thrown to a couple umpires multiple times this year. and so they know my stuff but you're always around these guys so hopefully you know hopefully there's

no ill will between the rapport is good yeah between the catchers and the umpires because then they're you know screwing me but i don't i think that you know umpires are pretty professional they're not yeah they're not going to hold grudges like that and they're playing it's i mean it's a delicate dance too because if they're making good calls for you the hitter's not happy yeah so it's like umpires you're never gonna you're you're always going to be pissing somebody off yeah yeah Yeah, tough job. Yeah, I don't know why anybody who won't be an umpire, but it's not, you know, I'm never going to be an umpire, but to each his own.

So this is in regard, you know, we talked about, I think earlier today, we talked about to be the best at whatever you do. You have to be a little crazy, maybe a little obsessive, um, obsessed, um, obsessive, um, obsessive compulsive maybe. I don't know, I don't know how we talked about it earlier. But how important is it to be able to, can you overanalyze and how important is it to be able to step away? Because in like reset, because I was thinking that's one thing I like about archery is when you're shooting arrows, you can't really be thinking about anything else. Like when you're shooting your boat today, you're thinking about all the little things you need to do.

It's like how important is things like that to get away from thinking about the game too much? I mean, do you do that intentionally or are you pretty good at just turning it off? Yeah, I need to get better at turning it off for sure. You know, it's super common for guys to golf and baseball and probably other sports too, but, you know, just having out basically have something else to do. So who knows, maybe shooting the bow is going to be that for me. It was definitely fun. I wasn't thinking about baseball while I was shooting.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you see, and guys hunting the offseason too. That's kind of they're out. So I think I think it's super important and I'm still kind of searching for what that is for me. I'm not going to not going to start golfing or anything like that. But you know, because guys have tried getting me into that. Yeah. It's just not for me.

No, I think it's I think it's important because then that that helps you, you know, get your, get your attention to baseball when it's time to do that even more effectively. Yeah. Because I know I can overthink. shit you know if I if I'm I don't know I think about I have no room for error like when I'm hunting so I can like overthink and put so much pressure on myself so it's like sometimes I have to be intentional and this also led me to another question I had for you how how much is like a sports psychologist are guys using that in your in baseball talking to somebody about just the mental approach to the game yeah I think a lot of guys have that I don't I don't think that everybody has

that but I think a lot of guys do and just being able to clear your mind and that kind of thing. It's super super valuable. Yeah, so that's not something that we, you know, we don't talk about it a ton probably because I think in the big leagues it's kind of just you have it or you don't really a little bit. Yeah. You know, you can compete and you kind of either have it or you don't because those are those are conversations that we would have a lot when we were in high school, you know, college, that kind of thing. But it's not talked about a ton in pro ball. And so guys have their own individual, you know,

sports, you know, psychologists or whoever it is that they, that they talk to or coaches help with that, that kind of thing. But, yeah. But the players don't talk about it amongst each other usually? We'll talk about it a little bit, but it's not, you know, we'll talk about like our coaches a lot more than that or you know our physical like our strength coaches yeah something like that but and so i've heard i've heard of some guys who've had that and and it you know it's like oh what do you guys talk about we don't we don't talk about that a ton um but i i think it's pretty common. Are you i thought of something else too i watched this video or read something about you about um i think it was at air force and it was something about um it was right after the with go.

withdrawal from Afghanistan and something happens. Like, have you, to me, it reminded me that you seem like a leader or lead by example or how do you see yourself on a team environment? Are you, do you want to be a leader? Are you, is that your goal or is that just how, is that how you've been when you compete? You're just like, I don't know, you want to be the guy. How does that work? I know, I know you, because you made, I think you called people out in that situation.

Can you tell me what happened? Yeah, it was basically like, you know, they were at 445 every day at the Air Force Academy, you have the anthem gets played and they lowered the flag. So you're standing, if you're in uniform, you're standing, you know, saluting. And if you're not in uniform, you're probably standing in attention because that's kind of the right way to do it. So, and these guys were just kind of standing there, like, you know, whatever. however it was so just half-ass yeah um and so you know went over there and and you know said hey you know we got to clean it up basically and um and you know whether they did or not who knows yeah

yeah i guess and that that was kind of more the mode i was in uh more at air force for sure um because i didn't know those people now it's kind of just like you know who cares yeah but you know how you and obviously in a different position now than I was then but um I think how you do anything is how you do everything and you know that's important important you know it's a live your life um you kind of above the line I guess yeah however you want to think about it right and uh but in the in the major league so far you've probably you're just kind of fitting in for right now you're not like super vocal in the locker room or where how do you see your now it's it's just different I don't think it's necessarily like just fitting in or not

being super vocal I think it's just different and I think that's something I've I've tried to feel out this year you know because I've I've had a learning curve too yeah what what what the big leagues is like right you can't come in act on like yeah you can't come in guns blazing yeah because you don't have everything right it out so yeah I've just been trying to learn as much as possible this past year and you know so maybe it looks different next year maybe it doesn't but um yeah just going to show up and be myself i think really yeah well yeah i don't know it's uh i love the success you've had i love that you're so willing to come and and do all this stuff with me it's it's pretty amazing

i mean i just know that with your mentality and like your your hunger for growth and getting better man i'm pumped for next year for you for sure yeah And I appreciate you having me because this is you're one of the guys that I follow probably more than, you know, more than anyone, you know, who's not in the in the baseball or sports sphere. So, you know, like I said, just being able to to hear different opinions and, you know, think differently, you know, because you want to, you want to, you know, be great. You got to think great. You got to, you want to be different, go against the grain. You've got to think different. So you've been really good.

I've read your book and followed you for a while. So I'm glad we can make this work. How did you come up with, how did you come across a bowhunter's book? How'd you get it? Just through the grapevine, I think. Like, you know, because I think everybody in the world probably listens to Rogan. Yeah. You know, I've seen you on there.

Yeah. And, you know, liked what I saw. So I think I listened to your book on audio, on audio book, I think, just as I was driving. Yeah. And working out. Well, thank you. Yeah.

No, great, great stories and, you know, good stuff in there. So anything that, you know, anything that can help me get better at what I do, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, explore it. So when you've, you've definitely helped. Well, that's, that's, I know your future is bright because of that mindset. But how we always end the show is with your brand new Hoyt right here. Yeah. Look at that thing.

The Hoyt Highline. Because this is for people with super long draw lengths. And your draw length is 32 and a half inches, which is five inches longer than mine. Nice. And that means you have a lot more power because that arrow is on the string for five inches longer. But yeah, you shot this. I mean, dude, you were so accurate with this right out of the gate, which I think like just being an athlete, you follow instructions. And, you know, there's a reason for doing pretty much everything.

and Wayne gave you a few tips and man you were laying them in there yeah it was fun shooting it was fun um and you you guys were talking about shooting him 80 120 yards and i was shooting it at 20 and i felt i felt like that was far so oh you did great yeah i'll play around with it a little bit but um yeah this is this is awesome we're going to get a bow hunt scheduled here at some point too once you get done dominating the major leagues yeah we got to plan that out that that would be blast yeah whenever whenever you can make it happen ever so what's your off season is three weeks yeah pretty much so yeah we got to make that happen one of these times but yeah it was i mean honor having you here thank you so much for coming to oregon i know you're here visiting nike and

but she still came down to eugene here and hung out with me for the day and i really appreciate it yeah i appreciate everything brother thank you all right keep hammering guys yes sir