Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 098 - Dusty Tuckness

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Join us for a discussion about bullfighting with Dusty Tuckness, a 15x WNFR Bullfighter, 10x PRCA Bullfighter of the Year, and CF-L1 trainer. Dusty Travels the world fighting the baddest bulls.  Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com   Follow Dusty Tuckness: https://www.instagram.com/dusty_tuckness/  Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro 0:04:13 What is a Bullfighter? 0:10:13 Rodeo VS Hunting Lifestyles 0:13:36 John 15:13 0:15:29 Bull Riding Misconceptions & A Winning Mindset 0:22:47 Training for Bullfighting 0:27:19 Montana Silversmith 0:28:21 Ad Break 0:30:22 Questioning the Journey 0:41:20 Books & Podcasts That Changed Dusty’s Life 0:42:37 “I Can Overcome” 0:45:51 Directing Our Energy & Passion in Life 0:51:03 Dusty’s Upbringing 0:55:33 Growing Up in a Small Town 0:59:59 Dusty’s Highlights 01:02:32 Connection with Animals 01:05:36 Bull Personalities & the Goal of Bullfighting 01:08:04 Freestyle Bullfighting 01:14:53 Bull Horn Types & Injuries 01:19:56 The Shark Cage 01:24:00 Hand & Eye Coordination in Bullfighting 01:25:43 Outro: Dusty’s Legacy

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy, and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is Keep Hammering Collective with Dusty Tuckness. How are you doing?

Man, great. I'm glad to be here. Oh, man, it's, I don't know. It's been kind of a whirlwind because I actually never look at my calendar. So then I was like, oh, I had, I can't remember who I had last week. Oh, Paul Skeens. Then I'm like, I got a little break. Then Bert Kreisher's coming.

And then I'm like, oh, wait, no, I got Dusty coming in. So I was kind of thrown off my game, but I'm so thankful you came. And it's like, we had, I don't know, I don't know if you had a good time. I had a great time. But also, I did some research last night. So we did a little for a shoot yesterday. And I was like, dang, this guy's a freaking stud. I didn't know if I didn't know or what I anticipated.

So then I started watching some of your YouTube videos last night. Dude, you're a beast. Oh, man, I don't know about that. You are blessed. And, man, it's when I got the invite to come, man, this is amazing. I'm grateful, thankful to be here, man. You do things right. And you're a busy man anyways.

So to do this and invite people from all over different backgrounds and careers and professions to share a little piece of your world, man. This is a blessing. Appreciate it. Well, I feel, you know, I tell, I've told people this. I make it seem like it's, you know, I have the guests in and, you know, I'm showing in my world. This is for me.

This is just, I'm selfish. I like spending time with badass people. And I'll just say, when we were watching your highlights last on on YouTube, even my wife, she was just like, man, it's pretty cool. You get to hang out. with these people. And it's like, that's how I feel. I feel so lucky that I can made some excuse,

like I could pretend like I got a show, lift run, shoot. And really all it is is me getting to learn from outliers or people who are the best in their field. Because when I see what you do, and then I see like the feedback that the, you know, the people that do the rodeo guys, guys who do the same job you do, maybe some of the cowboys, the bull riders,

and how they talk about such as such glowing regard of you and your work. I'm just like, man, this is a blessing to be able to have you here into my hometown and be able to share lift, run, shoot, and then also get back to the mountain this morning. You carry the rock up. Yeah. How was that? It was awesome, man. Like I've told you before this week, I come in with the expectation that we were just, I was going to fly and we're going to run until we couldn't run anymore and then pack the rock and, you know, kind of just preparing my mind mentally a little bit for that because I knew it was going to be challenging. I knew it was going to be different and hard.

But I told myself, I can't leave Eugene without packing the rock. Yeah. So I was going to regret it either way. Whether I packed it, there was regret. And then if I didn't pack it, and I figured if you're going to regret something, you might as well involve a little pain with it. So it was awesome. It was a great morning, great start to the day.

And thanks for taking me out again, man. So two things. You not only packed it, but I think you got the fastest of all time. I think we're still trying to verify that. But I know, I mean, low 33's, which carrying that rock up is impressive, dude. I mean, that we've had a lot of beasts in here. And for that to be, like, potentially probably the fastest, I think. I got to verify this Rodney Williams kid down the street here.

He was right there. Tanner was right there. So we're, but anyway, point is, you killed it. And then also. Normally, whoever carries it up, I'll just carry it down. Yeah. And then you carry it all the way down too. So it's, I don't know, I'm super impressed by how tough you are and how good a runner you are.

But I do want to say, too, about watching those highlights. I am fascinated by, yeah, I don't know. I mean, your job. So just to explain for people who, you know, not everybody follows a rodeo like certain people do. But so you're a bullfighter. Yes, sir. Right? So explain to the listeners what that is.

Yeah, so I'm a professional bullfighter. We travel all year round from town to town, city to city. And our main objective is cowboy protection. You know, a lot of guys or people can refer to us or have some familiarity with us as a rodeo clown. Well, the sports evolved over the years. So you got the rodeo clown barrel man, the entertainer factor. And then you've got the bullfighter. And our job is, you know, strictly cap of protection.

It's very dangerous and very serious. And we have a lot of fun with it. But our main objective is getting that bull rider in and out of the arena once the whistle blows or he hits the ground as safe as possible and help getting that bull out of the arena as well as well as everywhere we go. We're working with at least one other guy, if not two. So it's a teamwork deal. It's a very unselfish job.

If you're in bullfighting to be a showboater, it's really not. meant for that. It's a team deal. And when you got the good team chemistry, it's just like the perfect setup in El Cunton. You know, you got your set up in one spot as the caller, the archer is set up in another spot, and you work as a team. And it's a, you accomplish it together. And rodeo as a whole, there's a, I've always said this, you know, the camaraderie in rodeo is second to none. You know, everybody's out there competing against each other. But they're their, pulling for their buddies. I've had several buddies. They go out and they're 90 points. More like going to win the rodeo, but they're coming back and pulling that guy's rigging a rope and

wanting them to be 91. And it's pretty cool and it's great to be a part of that kind of community day in and day out every weekend. We're born into this world and we have blood family, but the rodeo family runs deep. And every town you go, city you go to, there's always people there pulling for you or wanting to bring you in and give you a good home cooked meal or give you place to stay or shower and just lifelong friends come out of this industry and it's just been a blessing to be a part of it. Yeah, I get the family part because yeah, you guys are working together on the road so much and so you do, I'm sure, bond. Yeah, so I'll just, so you're not miced up, right? Are you miced up? There's times we are. Because the entertainment, the guy is out there

talking you're talking about the entertainer part and then you guys are um what what i was watching last i on that film and then talking to you is like so that the bull rider's on the bull you're out there and once either that rides over or he gets thrown you're in there trying to protect get you shoot that gap is what you say i think and is that like getting the bull's attention so he doesn't tear up the cowboy essentially yeah so the bulls are are animal athletes you know they're unpredictable they got personality just like we do and it could change from day to day and some bulls have more tendencies to be more aggressive or you know to be a little more gentle or you know had their bucking patterns but you never really try to set a game plan you just got to expect unexpected and be ready for anything

so your training and your preparation really reflects that you know preparing yourself in that moments so you you work off more reaction than than thinking i've always said if you think about it you're second late. And so you've got to develop your mindset in a way to where you're developing that reaction over your thinking time. And so yeah, shooting the gap, engaging that animal. You know, bulls are naturally colorblind. They go off movement and feel. So the baggy pants we wear, the looser clothing provides a bigger target for the animal to see as well as engaging that animal by engagement. You're putting your hands on that bull. There's a lot of times when the bluerriter hits the ground you know they the bulls feel that they go to it and their heads down they don't

see so by engaging that animal and putting pressure on their head it'll it'll it'll bring that bull's head up to allow him where he can see more the arena and what's going on and be more directed to you and then that's when you work in there in tandem with your team and your teammates to be able to roll and go that bull and get him out of the arena and get that bull rider back to safety so when you say like get their head up if if their heads down and they're just focused on the Cowboys, is that when they can get in there and hurt somebody? So that's why you want their head up to where they're a little bit. Yeah, you can get their head up. You can usually, you know, more times than not, you can, you know, you got a better chance

of winning and directing that bull where you want to go is if his head's down and especially if his heads down and he's already kind of feeling the bull rider, then you got to be really aggressive and really put some pressure on that bull's head and make that engagement. Just make you seem like a more vulnerable, vulnerable target than the one that's on the ground. Yeah, yeah. And so kind of an insurance factor, you know, you put your own well-being out there for somebody else's health. And so it's a lot of people say we're crazy. But, you know, one of my mentors, Frank Newsom said, you know, I heard him say years ago, we're not crazy.

You know, crazy people aren't good at anything. You know, we're professionals. We've trained for this. We've got a sound mind. And we work for this, you know, and some people are cut out to run into burning buildings. Some people are on SWAT. Some people jump out of airplanes and do different extreme sports, ride motorcycles, whatever it is. And it's up to us to kind of find those gifts and passions that God's given us and develop those traits and believe in it and trust in it.

But also, for me, the work ethic coming into it is so much more to me. You know, I've talked this week about the process, man. You've got to fall in love with the process. And honestly, I think for me now, the process is where the true prize is. How come Cowboys always have the best sayings? Oh, man. I want to consider me the guy that has very good sayings. I've got some pretty witty friends, D.B. being one of them.

Odell, Jordan Hanson, man, some of these guys, and then they're one-liners. Some of the stuff they say, you just kind of get stuck in your tracks at time. Like, yeah, yeah, he did say that. I just like how, you know, you just quoted, who do you, I don't know who you just, I can't remember the name, but you just had a saying you just quoted. But I like, I don't know what it is, but cowboys seem like they do that. They remember like, oh, this old boy, so-and-so said this and here's how he said it. I just, I don't know, it's kind of like the culture to tradition or it reminds me of just that small town environment where you sit around and you talk around the campfire.

You kind of, you have reverence of the past or you're listening to your elders essentially. I just like that storytelling part and just like honoring those before us. It seems like for whatever reason that happens with, I don't know if it's rodeo or just small town people, but that's, I don't know, I just like that part of it. Yeah. And, you know, obviously, you know, rodeo in the hunting world's got so much in common. You know, it's rodeo is no different than going out, packing in, camping, hunting, come back to camp like you said, sit around. the fire telling stories and just get you know each other and cut up rodeo we do that all the time year around you know we get to the rodeo catch up a little bit we all go to work after work and then we

come back to the trailers hang out and sit around the fire cook and just reminisce of the day the night memories and that's one thing rodeo's given me is you know the opportunity to see a lot of things meet a lot of cool people but engage with so many cool people out there in this world that when rodeo is done for me that we're still going to have friendships and brotherhood and be able to do life and live life together. And it's no different than, you know, I've said before that, you know, you want to be successful. You know, if you run with, if there's four successive people and you run with them, you're going to be the fifth. And, man, I think that's a true believer. And Rodeo really reflects that a lot. You see a lot of these guys on the contestant side, a lot of them will

interrupt. We don't, we can't really enter up like the contestants because we're independent contractors. So we do a lot of our own booking. And, you know, when we go to a rodeo, we're there, every perf, whether it's one perf or 20 perps. What does that mean? That means the days of that rodeo. Okay. So for example, Fort Worth's, is that performance? Performance. Yeah. So Fort Fort Worth Stock Show and rodeo, it's like 24 performances in a row where the contestants, they'll come in and ride a couple days, but then they'll go to another rodeo. So they've, they got what you call traveling buddies. So sometimes it's two, three, four guys. It'll jump in a rig together and enter up on the same days. And they go from rodeo to rodeo and balance out the

travel and the costs, which they put on a lot more miles than we do. Because once we get there, we're there. So, man, you just, you get to know people on such a deeper level in life and their highs, their lows, and you get experience a lot of life with them. So that family the connection goes deeper than anything else that I can think of because of the time that you spend with each other. Yeah, it's real. You mentioned something earlier, too, about insurance or whatever, but, you know, that scripture you have on your hat there, and you mentioned something about sometimes

you put your own, or well-being. Well-being or safety in front of others. Is that the call to that scripture, kind of? Yeah, so one of my sponsors has been with me for several years, a hooey. they're out of Texas just a great company just put together a great team you know they're an actual sports kind of based company I'd say but you know talking with Joey Austin and that I've I sustained a pretty bad injury a few years back and man just injuries will get you sitting and thinking a lot and you know my favorite scripture is John 1513 and it says greater love that has no one

than this, to lay his own well-being down for another man. You know, that's the greatest love you can ever think of. And that's what Jesus ultimately did for us. You know, he, he was willing. And 1513 to me shows the willingness. And, you know, Christ packed his own cross to where he got crucified and knowing what the outcome was going to be. And he still showed up and packed it and got the job done. And for me, it's, it goes hand in hand for me in the industry I'm in fighting bull. the greater love has no one than to lay your own well-being down for that of a brother.

So it's something I try to live by every day in the arena, out of the arena, and just a constant reminder for me to be willing to wake up and put my best foot forward and try to be an inspiration and inspire others to reach their goals, you know, help them chase their dreams. Yeah, that's definitely powerful.

And I think, I feel that from you. You know, I think that's real. I don't think that's just, you know, good words. just think that that's truly what I see when I see you. What is something like, you mentioned that hunting and rodeo has, sure, there's a lot of similarities. You know, hearing you talk, I hear a lot of positive attributes about the rodeo and the community and the brotherhood you form.

And then, you know, of course, putting your own well-being in front of others or in front of yourself to protect others. But what is something that people from the outside might misunderstand about rodeo that you think? Oh, yeah, I think the animal abuse, I would think would be one of the number one deals. And like I was telling you yesterday, if you got a product that you have a million dollars in or a couple million dollars invested in, you're probably going to take pretty good care of it. You know, make sure it's, you know, vehicles nowadays are 100,000, you're going to make sure that oils are changed and tires rotated and, you know, it's washed and cleaned and functioning to its best ability.

It's no different with these animal athletes. Honestly, they treat their livestock better than most. humans. And, you know, the rule of thumb is being a cowboy rancher, a stock contractor is the animals eat and are taking care of before you do. And so that's one thing that I really try to relate out there. Get to know the sport or any industry in life. Hunting is no different. You know, I know you catch some flack on some of the images that you post. I've got it a little bit and they go straight to, oh, the abuse or whatever, but there's something pretty spiritual about it, you know, on the rodeo side or even the hunting side where there's a common denominator

there. There's more to it than just going out and harvesting an animal. You know, there's animal management. There's feeding your family. You know, God's provided nature force to survive. And, you know, it's a blessing to be able to do it and do it successfully. And, you know, I've followed and watched you enough that it's not just going out there and trying to get the biggest bull or deer or elk or whatever it is, it's something pretty spiritual and deep for you. And, you know, the story that I feel that you do tell is when people just really sit down and think and look at it, I think you tell it right. And that's kind of what I want to do in the rodeo world as well as, you know, relay the right message. Give me a second, not to plead my case, but just see how we live and how these animals are

truly taken care of. And I would think that would probably be one of the biggest things. And then probably the other one is, oh, you guys are just wild and part of yours and this and that and the other. And, you know, there's that in areas and parts of it. But, you know, evolution of all the sports have changed so much. You know, we were talking about Brady, you know, not long ago. And same way with the sport of rodeo, you know, from 20 years ago to now, the guys that are tracking their nutrition, their sleep, their workouts and all this to compete at the highest level, which is to be a world champion, compete at, Las Vegas for the Wrangler National Files Rodeo, you have to be a stud,

but just to make it there isn't enough. There's guys that are continually winning all these world championships. Stets and Wright, Sage Kimsey, Zeke Thurston, Tyler Waggis back, you know, Tim O'Connell, Casey Fields, the greatest bareback rider of all time. These guys, you know, you talk about in your book,

10% is average. to being successful in hunting, well, you don't want to be 10%. You want to be 100%. And guys that I just named off have that mindset of, if you want to be average, you can be average, but this is what the workload was.

I'm going to double it. And those are the guys that I really tried to follow and stay in touch with. Layton Barry is another great one. These guys grind, and they're always looking for some way to better themselves. And that's truly,

admirable about guys that are willing to go the extra mile or if they're not even training for something they're training. You know, training without necessarily a purpose. They've got a purpose. You know, stay ready so you don't have to get ready.

But just that mentality to say tomorrow I'm going to outdo what I did today and those are the people that I want to surround myself with. All those guys you guys mentioned, they have that same mindset about self-improvement and just always in the game. Yeah, man. And like, you know, just reflecting on Casey Fields, you know, he just retired last year.

But, you know, he is the greatest back rider of all time, six-time world champion. That guy would wake up in the morning grind, you know, whether it's in the gym, providing for his family, working. And then when he, there was just such a piece about him when he'd show up to the arena. The hard work was done. Yeah. And now he'd just go to play it. And, you know, there's all them other athletes that I named the same way. You know, when you get to the rodeo, a lot of those times,

and I used to enter freestyle bull fights, a competition where it was a Spanish fighting bull, judge in the same way as like a rough stock event. When you showed up to the bull fight, you already knew who you had beat and who you were going to compete against in the short round. Just by their body language. Yeah.

You know, because when they start loading the cattle and know that it's time to go to battle, it's kind of like when you get punched, there's two reactions, fight or flight. Yeah. And you know those guys that'll take a punch and ready to step up for some more. And like said, that's that part of the roadie world is growing so much. In any sport, you can't just get by on talent.

Talent gets you a long ways. But that extra grind, that extra work that you're going to put in, when there's no lights, there's no music, there's no added money, there's nobody watching, what are you doing the dark matters? Yeah. And to have that type of mentality a day in and day out, It's a place that everybody has access to, but very few try to find it. Yeah.

It reminds me, I don't know where it started, but I know I've used it. But what I've always said is the only reason I've been successful is I'll do it. Anybody else could do, but won't do it. I'll just do it. You know what I mean? And you're kind of talking about that. It's like everybody in hunting's been a little bit like rodeo in that regard. It was like 20 years ago, training to hunt wasn't, or 30 years ago, wasn't really a thing.

It's just like people wanted to go and they wanted to hunt and have a good time and get away and hang out with the boys and that's all good. But then all of a sudden people started to train. It's like, oh, well, how do I be the best at this? How do I be my best at this? And it feels like rodeo is sort of taken on that same path because now it's like, you know, Now it's like these big events, National Funnels Rodeo, it's like people from the outside look at that and be like, man, I'd love to be involved in that. That's crazy.

What does it take? Well, now it takes training every day. Before, I don't know, I just know hunting. If you just had good hunting instinct and you just kind of showed up and you'd kill a bowl every once in a while and that was good and you were above average and that's great. I think like with rodeo too, there probably wasn't the training 20 years ago like there is now and focus on diet and how to, how. How do I become a better athlete? I mean, athlete probably wasn't even related to rodeo back in the day, right? Yeah, I mean, maybe a little bit, but not to the extent it is like it is today.

And it is, and it's good to see because now the development of even younger athletes, you know, having the opportunity to go to least schools, you know, where you can come up through the industry right. you know when I was young it was kind of the school of hard knocks oh you want to be a bullfighter you know I grew up into the world you know my dad fought bulls my mom was involved in rodeo but it was kind of the school of hard knocks dad I want to do it okay well we loaded bulls step out there and we'll kind of did you start on like just regular cows not just bulls or how well so when I used to travel with dad when I was really young obviously I was too too young yeah to be in front of some bulls but you know I'd work the mutton bust and then the steer

years. And then when I was 12 years old, I kind of started sneaking away to a practice pin there by the house. Do you know, a bowl? No, well, I rode a little. It wasn't my deal. But, you know, at first it was just kind of watching the practice. And then it was running the outgate. And then it was, you know, cracking latches. Just working your way in. Just kind of, you know, nonchalantly inching into it, you know. And then next thing I know, I was, you know, getting more involved. And, and, man, I was so thankful to have a mom and dad like it did. try to derail me from it. You know, obviously they probably weren't too thrilled. Yeah.

Being 12 and doing that. But they supported it. And, you know, it's crazy to just to look back and reflect on what I've been a part of. But there's been a lot of trials and errors and adversity to come over too with it. But I think through adversity and hardships, you truly find out more about yourself and how bad do you want something? Because I've always said, If you went with the wind all the time, eventually you'd quit thanking the wind. And then you just, you know, you wouldn't appreciate things in life as much. So I think, you know, challenges and I wouldn't necessarily call them failures. It's ways you learn that you can't do something.

Failure is only when you quit. And like I told you, the quote from what's his name was, you know, quitting isn't a physical trait. It's a mental. And so being able to control and develop your mind and calis your mind. and callous your mind and develop that endurance mentally because your body can go way further than your mind thinks it can. Yeah. And you've got to change that into believing and knowing that it's going to be hard.

A lot of people, I feel, you know, I'm a big fan of sports. I watch Sports Center a lot and it's good. You see all the cool shots, the last minute plays. Rogers thrown the hell Mary the other night. You're like, man, that's so cool. I want that. Yeah. Well, do you really want it?

because what it took to not only get to that moment, but to capitalize in that moment. And that's where people, I think, get lost a lot in chasing their goals or dreams. I think they spread them too far out and miss what all took place prior to that in order to not just get there but capitalize on it. And going back again, that's the guys that I follow, I watch. You know, even I feel like I've got to know you way better now over the last two days. but just following you over the last year, you know, honestly, I knew who you were a little bit. And but, you know, when you got Dale up here in DB, I definitely tried or started following you a little bit more.

And I'm like, man, this guy, you don't mess around. Like, this is a day in life. And I admire that because it's not, I'm going to get likes and followers and play a different life on social media than who I am. No, no, it's the real deal. And, you know, like-minded people, you know, group up. naturally. And, you know, some of the people who told me you got to know and are your best friends are some of the biggest icons in your industry, my industry, you know, that's another tie. And it's not like you guys were like, I want to be best friends. No, it was like-minded people

with the same visions, goals, and inspirations that, you know, led to the friendships and development that you guys have. So those are people I want to be around, you know, whether I can ever get to that point mentally I believe I can and I won't quit until I get there well I mean you're 15 time world champion so I think you're there but I do I almost forgot how Montana is Silver Smith yeah Montana Silver Smith made I mean with and you helped them make this sweet necklace for me and now I'm looking we're all blinged out here yeah what's yours right there this is Montana Silver Smith as well this is just a pendant they had made for this one was from 2014 working the NFR I got these made up for the guys that all

worked that year and it just they're a great company their slogan is a brand of champions and then you know coming up here I you know that that's such a great saying you know I'd want to steal it but you've already you've probably trademarked I love it got my initials on it yeah keep hammering it's Montana Silversmiths thank you Thank you, Dusty, for making this happen. I feel very lucky, very blessed to have this. And I like that we're both wearing our...

Swing down, baby. Yeah, yeah. So thanks again. But you mentioned there's been a lot of ups and downs on this journey. I just mentioned your 15-time world champion. Has there been times during that where you thought maybe it's over or maybe it's an injury or maybe where you're just questioning your journey? Tell me about those ups and downs.

Yeah, I mean, to question, is it over or not? Not really. You know, I've had people ask me a lot. Obviously, I've been in the industry a little while now, and you get the question to ask, you know, how much longer you got, you know? You're getting a little long in the tooth, and I just tell them, you know.

Well, my wife said you look like you're in your younger 20s. Well, good. Thank you. I'm glad I didn't take my hat off then. So I was like, I said how old you were, and she's like, what? But so, yeah, you don't look long in the tooth at all. You look very young.

But for me, it's just, you know, this is where I truly feel God's calling for my life is. And I still feel young. I still feel, you know, active and I'm craving it. And so for me, it's in God's timing, you know, stay in tune with him. And, you know, spiritually and physically, you know, balancing my why out. And, you know, obviously, if I do that right, I feel that. I'll know when it's time, but I don't see it coming up anytime really soon. But yeah, it's a game of inches.

It's the games of highs and lows. Pretty much all my good friends in rodeo, they got some type of story or testimony of overcoming an injury or going through an injury. And some injuries have been, you know, deathly and some have been career ending. And, you know, that's a possibility. But you can't really worry Fred on that if you do. I think he gets stuck because then you start questioning. what you're doing, what you're training for, or the fundamentals of the event or sport.

And when I was really young, like I said, I started when I was 12. And honestly, I can honestly say I didn't know what fear or nerves or anything was that, you know, all the way up in my early teens. I grew up with two older brothers. One was nine years older than me. One was four. So being the younger brother, you want to hang out with your brothers.

Yeah. But in order to hang out with your brothers, they were going to do everything that he could, where you didn't want to hang out with them. And so I credit a lot to them. Yeah. And, you know, I got in a bad wreck when I was 14, 15. Kind of long story short there, a bull got my buddy down, Josh Ravinias, in the corner. And all as I remember, stepping in there and that bull swapping ends and talking to dad afterwards, that bull swapped ends and handed me up against the fence and knocked me out, bust in my chin, broke a bunch of ribs.

and pretty much played ping pong with me between his horns for a while. And as a young kid, that was pretty big effect on me mentally. You know, when I woke up, I was in an ambulance, and I was sitting straight up and they were trying to put a sea collar on me. Like, I was pretty panicked. And it didn't set in too much then until I remember a couple weeks after that. We were in Baker, Montana, and that same bull come bucking out of the shoots, I was in the stands.

And as soon as I seen what bullet was, for the first time in my life, I can really remember fear hit me. And it was bad. And further down that next year, Dad used to put on a bull riding event in Cody Wyoming, and he allowed me to work with the two other guys that he hired. And I can remember the first bull bucking out, and I was stepped to him,

and he wasn't even a mean bull. And when he locked eyes with me, I got stuck in my tracks. I got heavy-legged. I couldn't move, and I ended up having to leave the arena. I couldn't work the rest of the bull riding. like, you know, fear and nerves struck me so bad.

And I left the arena and there was still something about the rodeo world that kept pulling me back and ended up. My parents were divorced at a young age, but so I lived with mom for my first part. And then I moved in with dad in high school. And like I told you earlier, you know, some of the hardest things you do in life turn out to be the best thing. And when I moved in with dad, it allowed me to go to a rodeo Bible camp in Matissee, Wyoming, becoming champions rodeo camp. and I was going there with just pretty much the intentions of to fight bulls, try to get better, try to overcome my thoughts and my mind. And through going to that camp, it was literally a life changer.

You know, I received Jesus, Lord, and Savior in my life. And it truly started seeing that I had a purpose. And I had somebody that walked through life with me and that I had, you know, gifts and opportunities that, you know, I had to trust in things and then have faith. and believe and from there it just started growing and you know slowly you know picking up into what you would call the start of my career and I can remember three or four months after that dad was working an event in Red Lodge Montana and we were just just about to start the bull riding and they're doing the national anthem and it sounds a bit cliche but we're standing there and the

nerves were hitting me a little bit and he just looked over at me he said son if you're going to this you might as well try to be the best and i could remember it was like it was yesterday and went in there and at the time i probably felt like i put on my best performance i ever did in my life and but looking back at it now it probably wasn't very good but it was a big big stepping stone for me it was like mentally yeah to kind of i stepped in there overcome now we got something to work with you know get the ball rolling and from there you know god was putting the right people in my life and the right opportunities and we just kept chugging along and you know it turned into a big career and and uh you know we we come across

a pretty big injury in the end of 2021 we're at the nifar ninth round um one of my good buddies braden richardson he was pretty beat up all week and he rode a bull rode a really good bull he ended up and he was pretty beat up enough to where he couldn't really dismount very good and he he just kind of come off that right side of that bull's shoulder and wasn't much of a gap and I stepped in there like I've done millions of times and when that bull swung around to hook at me he reached out with his front feet and when he did he stepped on the side of my leg and causing a compound fracture of my tib fibbia and you know I I knew it was a bad injury but everybody in that arena could realize what just happened it was one of them injuries where you didn't just know they were

hurt, you knew how they were hurt. And when you got a body part dis mangled in a manner that it's not naturally supposed to be, mentally it can really challenge you. And so for me on that, there's a picture that was floating around there. They were packing me out on the stretcher. And I had my hands on my head and I could just remember looking around, gazing around the arena. And, you know, I just told myself, I'm not going to let this determine the last time I'm ever going to be here. and I just hung true to that. Normally after the finals, I stay pretty good on my nutrition and in my work regimen,

but usually you're coming into the holidays and Christmas and you kind of fall off the wagon a little bit. I said, man, I'm going to hit the ground around. I'm going to dial in my nutrition even better. I'm going to quit anything that can stump my healing is I'm going to prove everybody that I can come back and come back better and stronger. That was my goal and my intentions.

So we get about a month into it, go to check in with my doctor, and I was starting to do a little therapy with just range of motion, my ankle knee and hip. And one night I was at John and Carla Harrison's house, and I pulled my leg out of my walking boot, and I felt my leg kind of move, and I could kind of see it. But I'm thinking, like, okay, maybe I'm just overthinking it.

Like the fracture moved? Yeah. And so I call John and Carlo over. I said, hey, is my leg moving? And I pull it out of my boot again and put it back in. They're like, yeah. And I was like, I'm not a doctor, but I don't think this is right. So I text my doctors.

I sent him the video and they kind of bounced some ideas off me. And, you know, a long story showing that, I shortened up my next doctor visit. And I had, you know, I call him, you know, he's my uncle Cole, but we call him Buckles, Uncle Buckles. I was thankful that he was the one that took me to the doctor. He's one of the most optimistic positive guys that I've ever known in my life. And we get there and get x-rays. And as the doctor's walking into the office,

I know what he's fixing to say isn't good. Yeah, it hadn't healed, huh? And he says, you got to have a surgery again. And it just broke my heart. And Buckles, he's sitting there, and he's so on. optimistic and positive mindset. He's like, right on, dude, we get to do it again. And that was his mindset. And I was like, are you, Cole? How can you think that? So I was pretty down and out on the drive home. It was about three-hour trip home. And, you know, he can vouch. Like, I was pretty sour.

And people are texting me and this and that. I don't want to talk to them. And as we're driving home, I just, I'm thinking, and I'm not questioning God. I'm not, I've never tried to be a guy like that, I'm just like, man, this is this part of the story? You know, and one of my mentors, Rex Dunn, he was one of the most well-known bullfighters in the industry. He not only worked the finals, but, you know, he really was a big impact on the freestyle world. He raised a lot of bulls, a lot of great bulls, and just was a big icon in the sport of bullfighting and a lot of great hands to this day come up through him.

He told me one thing years ago. He said, you know, life's challenges in universities are like a flat tire. You can get out and kick dirt and throw rocks and throw your sucker in the dirt, or you can get out and change it and move on. And as soon it was like he spoke to me, as soon as I had that thought coming to my mind, I was like, that's right, we're going to change this tire. So right then I got a hold of my family, got hooked up with our family doc, and the next morning I had an appointment and went checked in.

He collaborated with the doctor that I just saw. They both had the same mindset. Hey, we got to redo it. We're going to put a bigger rod in, line it up better, and put more supporting screws in it. And I'm like, let's go. And so within the next about six days, we had another surgery. So I was like, start all over.

Here we go. And at that moment, I remember sitting there at Moranicki's in Apache, Oklahoma. and so here I am on my focusing on my physical side of my nutrition and everything and I just thought I was like you know what I'm going to put this much time and effort in my physical needs I need to do the same with my mental and my mindset so I'm not a reader I've never been big on a reader and I started diving into books and a lot of them were different military books and and then I come across you can't hurt me David Mr. Goggins himself and I started reading that and it just it just sucked me in and And me and a friend of mine, Carla Harrison, the day that I was released to walk, we both decided

we were going to start setting five hard. And I kind of had to wait until I could walk because of the two workouts you had to do a day. Had to be a little bit immobile. But anyways, did that. Got to reading his books. Kind of got to seeing some of your stuff. And just the mindset just really helped.

I listened to some podcasts with Sean White about. about the mentality of coming back from injuries and that. And he said one thing one time, he said, you know, when I come back off my injury, I accepted the fact that I could get hurt again and that it could happen. He said, but the sport didn't change. So why am I going to allow it in my mind?

And I was like, right on this go. That's the attitude, yeah. This is part of the story. But I promise you I'm going to be back sooner than what any doctors, anybody said I could. And they were predicting me to be out six to 12 months, which I thought was a big, big gap. Yeah. But I come back in four and a half months. Wow. My first pro rodeo. So,

man, it was a challenge. It was a grind. It was kind of like that rock today. It, it sucks. But it was so worth it. What? I wonder why the first surgery didn't take. Well, you know, they didn't line it up as good from my understanding. Was there a rod through one of the bones? No, it was. So the tibia is your big bone. Yeah. So I had a rod through the tibia. Yeah. But it was a smaller rod and it was offset a little bit my leg and I think that's kind of a common thing with that type of surgery is the misen alignment or you know if you you know put too much weight on your leg too soon early yeah and they only had one screw up top one screw on bottom so it wasn't a whole lot of support and so that was kind of the biggest thing and I just told my doctor I said what's the

best case scenario that you think. I said, you're the profession. I'm here to follow what you, you know. And when I walked into his doctor's office, he had a Bible scripture on the wall, and it was the one that I put on your necklace, you know, Philippians 413s. I can do all things for Christ to give me strength. And that was just a piece for me that, okay, this is my doc. And I'm going to trust what he advises me to do. And as soon as he said, yeah, I'd redo it. I said, let's go. Yeah. I didn't want to go, you know, let me go think about it because in my mind that was a day or two more. Cost of time.

Yeah. And, you know, time's the precious thing. And so I was thankful for that doc. You know, it was part of the journey that was a U-turn and unexpected, but that's part of life, you know. And with Rex telling me that flat tire. Yeah. See, another great saying. Yeah.

Cowboy. Yeah, you just got to play the hand you're dealt sometimes. Yeah. Some guys are, you know, Delta Jack Ace and some are a Jack 2, you know. But you can still win or have the mentality that I can still win or I can overcome. And I've told myself through it all that, you know, if I can change a trajectory of just one person's life through this, then it's all worth it. I think we can get wrapped up into ourselves too much in life and what can I get and what can I do and, you know, me, me, me. Life's a bigger picture than that.

And going back to the 1513, you know, be willing to lay it down and to step in that gap and to do something for somebody that, yeah, you'll get some, you know, the satisfaction and joy out of it or happiness. But at the end of the day, you get more excited and happy for them. And that was just my mindset. Like, you know, this might be for me. And I learned a lot through it physically and spiritually. you know i hope through it that uh you know i could inspire somebody to say hey you know you're not down

you might be down right now but you're not out right i think uh one thing we should both feel pretty thankful for is that we found something to direct our energies and passion to you know i mean because when i when i hear your story because people say like when you say you know lay your lay your own safety, your life down for others or whatever that is. People, I think, listen and be like, I don't have anything that that's important to me. You know, it's like, and so when I think of our journey, I think, man, I'm so lucky to find something to dedicate all this passion and this work and this mindset too. But it makes me think back.

So when you got hurt that first time, and you mentioned a few different things you mentioned, but he said the bull swapped in. So what does that mean that basically it goes from the tension from the cowboy to you? Yeah. Is that swapping ends? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So when you got hurt that time, when you were so young, the bull swapped in, it was off the cowboy on you, then batted you around like a ping pong. So after you were hurt then, is that when your parents were divorced and you were living with your mom? And then what were you doing at that time before you went to live with your dad? And then you went to the Bible camp and all that. what happened during that time? Yeah, so that's when I was, I just transitioned and started living with dad. Okay.

Yeah, and the rodeo Bible camp kind of played in a factor that, you know, the one of the hardest decisions that I've ever had to make in my life was basically telling my mom I didn't want to live with her. And as a mother's love, that's hard. Yeah. But I was thankful since she supported it. She might have not just really loved it.

But when I moved with dad. Why did you decide to do that? Hi, man, you know, looking back, hindsight's 20-20, and I think it was part of God's plan, you know, really, because it allowed me, being living with dad, allowed me to go to that camp. And that changed its trajectory in my life, more so outside of the arena than in. But it also allowed me to be a light and witness for my mom. You know, she gave her life to the Lord a few years after that. And it was like, it was like full circle. is like, holy cow, you know, the challenges in life, you got to find, you know, James

one and two tells, you know, consider pure joy when we go through trials and chivalations because the testing of your faith produces endurance. And, you know, you got to find the joy in the hard days. You know, the hard days are going to be there. And so you got to accept that, but find the joy in it because there's something good that's going to come out of it. And if you can wrap your mind around that thought and wake up every day with that type of mentality, you're going to be a winner. You're going to be successful. And you're going to be able to motivate and inspire others to push through and overcome. And I think at the end of the day, you know, that's what life's about is, you know,

being successful and doing good things, but also, you know, helping others achieve those moments in that because if you look down, it's like the trickle effect. You know, there's so many people that inspired me and I hope that I can inspire or inspire some. And I hope those guys can keep inspiring people. So it's a lot of give and take. and, you know, rodeo has really reflected that. You know, there's so many great ambassadors of the sport that have been retired for a lot of years, but are still giving back to the sport and, you know, putting on schools and, you know,

helping these kids and these younger gals and guys, you know, bring them up the right way and watch them be successful. I get, I get just as excited, you know, one of my good buddies, Austin Ashley. He's, you know, in my opinion, I think one of the hottest young bullfighters going. He's already had a great career, but, you know, he's going to be a great career, but, you know, he's going to break records and do a lot of great things. And, you know, seeing the success that he's had over the last few years, man, I think I get more excited for him than I do myself.

Just because, man, it's cool to watch somebody put in the work and be successful and be able to reap some of those benefits. Yeah. Yeah, I just can't, I can't get over, you know, that decision you made when you were a young kid because it's changed so much of your life's trajectory and also your impact on others. I know you're impacting others. I mean, you're impacting me, but I know in your world, it's got to have a profound impact on some of these young men. But at that, you were so young and you, I know what that's like to have the divorced parents and you have to decide.

And it hurts, it hurts one of them. And it's like sometimes these, you know, divorce, when there's divorces and kids, it's almost like which parents winning with wherever the kids. wants to live essentially. And it's like, all kids want to do is be happy and feel loved. And it's just like you get to that point where you're a young human and you're like, all I want, I don't, I just want everybody to get along. I mean, I would always say is like I tell my mom, can just be like, you know, dad back here and just like we could all just be a family again because that's all kids want.

Yeah, right? Exactly. And that's just not how life works. And so, yeah, I think about that, but did your parents, did they see you had a lot of potential in doing this? Because at that time, you couldn't predict you were going to be so good at what you do. But did you have some talent for it? Man, I wouldn't say, they want to keep you busy. I didn't have any talent.

You know, I grew up in an outdoors type family, a sporting family. We're big into football, basketball, a lot of sports. my older brothers, you know, they were involved. My middle brother was very athletic. You know, he probably could have went collegiate in several different sports. My oldest brother, he had a lot of drive and a lot of willpower. You know, he wasn't as gifted, I would say, on the athletic side, but he had a lot of work ethic.

And so I learned a lot from them. I was that short pudgy kid. I didn't really know it at the time, but I wasn't really fast. There was a lot of skills that I had to develop. And I don't mean to say that, like pat myself on the back. But I could remember my freshman year in high school. I could barely touch the net. And it drove me nuts.

And I'm like, man, I want to dunk. I want to at least pop the rim. Yeah. And so I got on this, you know, what they called, like a jumping program. Yeah. And I did that. And, you know, after I got done with that, I could dunk. Really?

You could dunk? Mm-hmm. Whoa. Yeah. And it was just, I felt that I had to work a little bit harder than some people. But looking back now, I was, I'm glad I had to. to, you know, because a lot of things then you do achieve or get to be a part of further on in life, like I think you appreciate it more.

And, you know, again, you know, you play the hand, you're dealt and just roll with it. Yeah. Well, I know what I like, one thing I've noticed too in hearing you talk is like you talk about maybe getting the good call on Friday, which is about the national finals rodeo. But you're so humble and don't take anything for granted. you've got that call 15 times. And to me, you seem like you're more able than you've ever been, but you're still like just hopefully get that call.

And just, I don't know, I just like the way you approach that and just like, hey, I'm just doing the best I can if it works out great. Yeah, and you got to. Obviously, you know, that's what you work for. You know, you want to be there at the end of the year with the top 15 in the world and the biggest stage of pro rodeo. And, you know, I've been so thankful and blessed too. be able to be a part of it for a few years.

But it's nerve-wracking every year, man. Yeah. One of these days, you're not going to get the call. And, you know, I just try to focus on what I can control to control and what I can't control, you know, to let it be what it is. But, you know, just try to keep my mind busy and be the best version of Dusty that I can be. And that's, to me, is being consistent day in a day out.

You know, we travel all year around and put in about 180 plus people. performances a year. And, you know, if I feel that from the first perth of the year to the last perth of the year that I'm given at least the same amount, if not, my goal is to be more effective, then it's a win, you know, and it's obviously a little easier said than done before you know the outcome. But, yeah, it's nerve-wracking every year because it's kind of out of your hands right now and just waiting to see what happens Friday. And hopefully we'll be calling you and telling you some good news but uh time will tell it's a it's a long couple next days and uh but i just got to keep that right perspective on you know life's good it's been a great year and i'm just thankful to

get to be a part of some of the stuff i get to be a part of you have to be there because remember i have to shoot the flaming arrow yeah i know i would love for you to be a part of some opening and i'd love to refer that to the production team because i think that'd be cool like i was telling you earlier that, you know, rodeo and hunting, you know, have such a connection. Yeah. And you got such a following. I was telling you, you know, over the last two days, you know, my buddies that have seen that I've been up here and they're, oh, I'm jealous or, man, get some more rodeo guys

up there or whatever. And I think, I think, I mean, obviously, you know, this is me saying it, but I think that'd be such a cool opening. You lit up an arrow and hit the arena floor and just lit it up, you know, I think it would be so, So cool, but we'll see. I'll make sure throw that out there and see what happens. Yeah, no, I love it. I just love, I don't know what it is, but it's, I'm so thankful.

I don't know, when I think about it growing up, you never really realize how lucky we are to come from small towns. I mean, I know you grew up in small town, Wyoming, and Idaho. And, you know, it's like that type of lifestyle in that community. That's what people in the city are missing. and almost some of them don't know they're missing it, but then they see, and I see like the rodeo environment

or the hunting culture, and I'm like, man, I'm so thankful that I know what this is about. Because I think, you know, NFR and things like this and the PBR, it's kind of popular on TV and it does good like when it goes to New York, but it's still not the same as growing up in that community and how lucky we are,

which when I was growing up, I didn't think I was lucky. lucky. I was just like, oh, this is just a way. This is every day. This is it. But now I look back and I'm like, God, what would I be doing if it wasn't for, you know, for me for bow hunting or what would you be doing if it wasn't for rodeo? You know what I mean? Yeah, that small town community is awesome. Like I said, you can like everywhere we ate here, you know, hey, Cam, you know, what do you get today, you know? And it's just like, it's, it's nice to be home and just be the kid in a small town sometimes and you know I'm always grateful to get back to my I guess I got a couple

hometowns you know Dubois Idaho and Matissey Wyoming and just get back to see my friends and family there and and just you know kind of throw it back to the old high school days in a sense and just kind of relive some old good times and just you know just talk about life sitting around the campfire you know and tell no rewrite stories I remember Matisi um the guy uh The very first cover of Eastman's bow hunting journal was from Matissee. Oh, so you know where Matitzi's at? I just, not really, but I just know. I remember this was back in like 1990.

Yeah. That was the first Eastman's Bowenning Journal we had come out. Maybe it was 2009. But anyway, Tyler Griffin maybe is his name. But he was on the cover with a big meal deer for the very first Eastman's. Yeah. There's some good hunting around there. And you mentioned Powell earlier.

That's where they were from. Oh, yeah. That's where one of my best friends is from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I don't know. I love that the small town, but the connections with the hunting and, you know, Rocky

Mount Oak Foundation is, they're big in the national finals. Yeah. And we were running yesterday. I think you mentioned Brandon Bates. We were actually co-host of Elk Chronicles. Yeah. Me and Brandon, or team out, maybe it's team out for Rocky Mountain. Okay.

Yeah. But he was so good at, he's just a good talker. Yeah. You know, I'm just basically good at bow hunting. But he's better on the mic for sure. He's got a lot of practice. Yeah, actually, one of his best friends is one of my best friends, Cody Abear. And he's really the big reason why I really got as involved as I have into archery.

Oh, really? So then obviously, you know, I got to know bates a little more in depth. And, you know, we've been, all of us been good friends. But, yeah, between Cody and Brandon, you know, they've really drawn me more into the archery world. And like I told you yesterday in the last 10 years, I've probably picked up a rifle twice. Yeah. I made up with the archery and just the challenge that it provides every day. It doesn't matter.

I mean, you'd be very, very well prepared. And one shift of wind or, you know, weather sets in or whatever, it can change everything. Yeah. That's the challenge I like. Well, you're a great shot with that new bow. Man, that's cool. You know, the bow rack, Wayne, you know, I've obviously followed you and I'm starting to follow Wayne. and it just seems like such a good guy,

knows this stuff about our tree and the shop was amazing. The bow's amazing. Yeah. It feels great. Like I said, thank you. That's a blessing. You smoke Dale pretty easy out there. Yeah, yeah, old Dale.

He had a little bit more going on, if you know what I mean, I guess. I heard, you know. He was recovered by that time. Okay. Well, I'm glad he recovered. Yeah. I think he's feeling better now, finally. Yeah, that was fun.

But yeah, you got out there 101 yards second arrow. Yeah. I can pop the balloon, but you were shooting so well right out of the gate. I said between you and Wayne, get me set up and dialed in. And that was cool. It was a great experience. I do want to ask you, so as I said, I was watching your highlights, but I love how, I guess it's no different than like I can talk about each of these animals here and where it was.

And you remember the scenario, but I mentioned that I saw one. bull like somehow you got it's he got his head under you yeah flipped you up and you landed on top of the shoot the game and it's you looked like a cat but it's like you went flying out of the screen and then all of a sudden your feet land tell me about that that highlight yeah so that was in fort worth texas i believe it was 2010 uh i believe maybe 2011 uh it was tc unite uh Scott pickins bull Templeton, Bradley Harris was on him. It's kind of a funny story. It was a cool how it worked out, but man, all the credit you got on that because when I stepped in there, I remember flying through the air and looking down. And when I looked down, there was a bull in that shoot that I was

coming down on. And all I could remember to think was like, man, I do not need to land on his head. Yeah, really? And my feet just kind of went to running in the air. And I, you know, place my foot on the buck top of the buck and stepped across and stepped outside, you know, on the other side of the buck and shoot and, you know, all was good. You know, everybody went crazy. It was a pretty wild deal.

And I jumped back in the arena and we finished the bull riding that night. And it was a couple days later, Bradley, he'd come up to me, the kid that was on the bull. He said, man, I'm sorry, dude. And I was like, dude, no big deal. Like, that's my job. You know, I'm supposed to do that.

And he goes, no. he said, I was mad at you for a while. And I was like, why are you mad at me? He said, well, man, when I got bucked off and went over the head of that bull, he said the tip of the horn hit him in his tailbone just enough where it hurt. And he didn't know everything else that went on. He said, but when I climbed out of the arena on the other side of the bucking chute, I seen in the corner of my eye, you were out of the arena.

And he goes, I thought for a second, what the heck is tuckness doing behind the chutes? Like, I nodded my head. And I didn't know he got thrown out of the arena. I said, all is good. That's funny. He thought you took that right off. Yeah, he thought I was just pulling bull ropes or something and then it, you know, stepped in there for him.

But he's like, yeah, I apologize for that. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Yeah, that's if you, you guys need to look up that highlight. It's, it's, but I was like looking up, uh, dusty tuckness highlights and that one came up. I was freaking epic, dude. But it's, uh, you know, you did, you kind of made an offhand comment earlier about, you talked about animal welfare and you said something like,

if it's a million dollar, a million and a half dollar, you know, but I just want to peel that back a little bit, but that's how valuable some of these bulls are. So you talk about they're not going to mistreat an animal that even if, you know, they do care about the animals, but even if they didn't, that's just a business expense. It's just like, that's a lot of money, but they also care about them and care about their well-being, but it's a huge investment. So yeah, nobody's mistreating any of these bulls. They treat them probably, you know, as well as they treat their family in some respects because that's their job. And but I think don't they look, isn't there like a connection or a bond with the animals too that some of these owners have? Oh for sure man.

You know some of the like said most of these contractors you know this is how they make their living yeah they've been it for generations and it's funny to see um how smart animals are and they are truly intelligent and you know when they basically raised up from ground up till they're you know retired they know who their owner is or who takes care of them who feeds them and you know you can see the the natural i guess attraction a little bit when they're around them they got you know they're calmer they're you know more at peace and and it's it's pretty majestic and cool to see you know there's definitely an art with it and a respect for us you know it's a mutual respect for what we do you know I know what they're capable of.

And I feel that there's a lot of these animal athletes, you know, that they like the light a little bit. You'll see them buck a guy off or whatever, and they'll make a hot lap. Yeah. You know, they enjoy it. The bull well? Yeah.

The bucking horses. They know when it's time to put on a show too. Oh, yeah. They know when they get loaded on the show, there's some bulls and horses that have been retired now that they're, you know, kicked out in green pastures and just, you know, live in the high life. when a trailer backs up, they perk up.

And they're like, it's time to go. And they're like, no, no, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, these, these contractors, man, they, they do everything they possibly can to take care of it in, in the, at every event the, you know, they've got, on stand, you know, uh, big animal vets there that, that, you know, that, that, they're taking care of, you know, and then nutrition and, you know, all the different exercises. and stuff like that, or if they get buggered up, you know, they've got the right supplements and to give these animals, get them right and healthy and performing.

But it's in their blood, you know, we don't force them to buck. You know, they're naturally going to. You watch Colts and they're born or bulls, you know, when they're calves and their yearlings, they're out in the pasture, they're playing, they're bucking, kicking, and so they're born for it. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people don't understand that. Right.

is what type of bull, I mean, you said every bull has a personality. Which type do you like? I mean, is there some that are just more aggressive? And you know they're going to bring it? Yeah. Or what do you see when you look at a bull? Yeah, so I never, I never, I always try to picture each bull is he's coming to play. Like, he's game on.

Because I've had bulls that I thought were pretty gentle and nice and flip the script on me. Okay. But yeah, I do like that. I like a bull that's going to go out there and perform well for the bull rider to be able to have a chance to win and put on a big score, put on a show. But then, you know, if he wants to play a rodeo a little bit,

like we say, you know, come on. You know, the guy dismounts and we roll and go, and, you know, that bull gets a little aggressive and want to play a little bit, man. And you've got to partner on the other side that's willing to step in there with you, man. You can't beat it. It's the best thing in the world.

Yeah. is we were talking about this earlier. I was wishing there could be analytics, but do you think about like, you know, when that cowboy comes off or the rider comes off, you got to get in that bull's face. Are you trying to spend as much time as possible

close to that bowl? Is that the goal or what's the goal? Yeah. Or do you think about it? You don't think about a lot. It's a lot of reaction. And over time, you develop a little sharp reaction

and anticipate and what that bull's going to do or where that rider's going to hit. So you kind of want to be far enough away but close enough just in case something happens. So you got to, it's a lot of, it's kind of like spotting and stocking a little bit, you know? You got to approach when you can approach and play the wind a little bit.

Play the wind a little and put yourself in the best possible position when something does happen, you can react and prevent the wreck before it happens. That's a big thing that I think more as the sport evolves, those people are realizing and seeing some of the things that are prevented. But that's the one cool thing that we got amongst our brotherhood when we're working bulls and performing at these events that we know amongst ourselves what we just prevented there. It could have been a bad wreck and we read it in time to prevent it. And man, that's a cool feeling.

And you don't, you know, for me, I don't go and brag about it or talk about a lot, but it's a peaceful feeling of going, man, we just prevented something bad. have been there and so you know let's let's do it again you know we got 15 20 30 more bulls to go let's let's keep it rolling yeah i uh i said there's two different type or i don't know what how you i apologize for not know the terms but it's when the bull rider's on there yeah you're doing your job but there's also like when you're just scored as a bullfighter too the freestyle the freestyle yeah so like i was watching some of that and it seems like you turn your back to the bull quite a bit like a little bit jute to the right come back to the left um how do you where'd

you learn those techniques just practice and learning the tough way and then i saw also you're doing that and then if your foot slips i think one time or i remember one highlight where your foot slipped the bull was right on top of you because you know you didn't get the footing that you wanted yeah so tell me about what's your thoughts during that yeah so i haven't entered any freestyle competitions for a while but, you know, the Wrangler had a tour for a lot of years from the 80s all the way to 2000. It was called the Wrangler Bullfight Tour and where, you know, bullfight and athletes would compete all year long for a world championship. And it was, I remember watching it growing up as a kid. It was like, man, this is so cool.

You know, I'd watching, you know, Miles Hare, Rob Smiths, you know, Frank Newsom, John Brogan, you know, Lance Britton, you know, Lance Britton, some of the greatest of all time. And it was always something that I wanted to, you know, achieve and chase when I got. older will the tour dropped before I was old enough to really get involved in it and then in 2015 one of my good buddies Aaron Ferguson he brought around what's still to this day called bullfighters only which is just strictly freestyle bullfighting competitions and now the sport has definitely started to grow a lot and there's a couple different associations out there that are given a lot of these younger athletes or guys that have been going a bit that are really

want to focus more in just the freestyle world an opportunity to go to go showcase their skills and make a good living. And so I've competed for several years, and it's obviously a little different than Calvert Protection, because in Calvert Protection, there's times, and you know, you do got to get hooked or take a shot for the Bull Rider world. Freestyle, the whole objective of the game is not to get hit.

Yeah. It's a game of inches as well, but it's like a 60-second game of tag. And, you know, you use a Spanish fight and bull that are naturally bred to be a group more aggressive and chase you around. And so then, you know, it's judged on the bullfighters, judged on, you know, how much control he has. They're a little smaller, aren't they? They can be.

Yeah, they look a little quicker. Sometimes they're pretty big, too. Yeah, okay. I mean, they're all big, but I thought they were a little, seemed like a little quicker on their feet. A lot of them are a little smaller. You know, buck and bull is probably going to average from 14 to 1,800 pounds. A Spanish fighting bull is probably going to be more, your 1,200.

But yes, they're a little more agile, a little quicker at times. And they get smart. You know, an animal, a lot of people think they're dumb. But the more times you fight them, they kind of figure out the fakes and the steps. So you've got to be even sharper on your game. But it's a great challenge. You know, there's a lot of athletic ability and prep that you really got to put into it. But then you also got to fit or mentally be prepared.

because that bull, when he comes out of the shoot, his objectives is run you over. Yeah. And you got to trust your training and trust what you've been putting in the time and work for. So it's a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun for me. And we still sell some rodeos, what they call with a sale bull, fight bull, kind of ooing all the crowd, you know, jump them off the barrel or whatever type deal. But it's a dang sure action-packed.

And there's been a lot of good times things went really good. And there's been a lot of times when things went really bad. But either way, it was crowd entertainment. And, you know, I always, my mentality was, you know, you leaving with something to talk about. And I always wanted to set the bar really high. You know, I was like going first in my round, you know, because, you know, I felt if I could get out there and set the bar really high. Yeah. A lot of people would be like, I don't know if I want to do that.

So, but sometimes he won, sometimes he didn't. I saw the flip. Oh, yeah, the back flip. Yeah. that did yeah that come about one of my good friends he's retired now Annie Burrell and I think it was 2004 I saw him turn his back to a bull and do the back flip and as soon as I saw it I thought to myself well if he can do it I can yeah and I did it a couple times and it I was very thankful everyone that I did turned out pretty good some turned out really good some turned out just

you know pretty good um but it's it's a whole new ball game when you turn your back to one and and just let jesus take the will you know how do you know when to jump feel it you know if there was something i knew that i could tell you you just you kind of just keep your eye on them as long as you can i guess and just just feel i know because the one that i saw that on on film is like you kind of you hit like his hump kind of but you it worked out out you came over but yeah I could see where that could go sideways yeah you don't know what that bull's going to do no yeah there's no this is when you do it or this is how you do it it's kind of a you can try it you know it's just something that I you know when I saw Andy do it obviously I always give

him the credit being the first that I ever saw do it but I'd tell you know follow up with that that that I was the first one to land it so yeah and there's other guys doing it now yeah there's some guys do it a little bit. They've kind of rolled into the fact they call it, you know, one of my good buddies, Aaron Mercer, a three-time world champion. He did this, started doing this little roll maneuver, and they started calling it the Mercy Roll. And it's basically just going head on to the bull and running and jumping and turning in

the air and letting your back kind of bounce off his back. Yeah. And then, you know, landing on your feet. And he perfected it very well. And there's a handful of guys, you know, Chance Morton and Tyler Mansell. couple of the guys that have perfected it now that they do it quite a bit and it's it's it's a dangerous high risk move but uh those are the guys that you know they can win on the ground but instead of just going in and knowing that they still have the bullfight one they're like no yeah i'm gonna

put the icing on the cake yeah and watching those guys it it motivates me and you know inspires me to even you know keep pushing keep grinding or keep hammering yeah i like it i don't know I never gets old watching that stuff. But I was also wondering too, like depending on the different bulls, some of them, there's no horns. Some of them pretty dull. Some of them sharp. Yeah. Like are you thinking about, oh, this one has actual points?

He could catch some of your clothes or something. Do you have to think about that? I mean, it kind of comes in your mind. Yeah. But like in the sport of rodeo, there's a rule. that they have to be tipped to a certain size. And I think it's a 50 cent piece size. And a lot of that has to do with, you know,

the safety of the athlete. Yeah. Because if you don't tip an animal, man, they're, like I said, that's their weapons. Right. You know, that's how they hurt people. And not that they can't hurt you without it, but that's just a safety precaution.

But yeah, sometimes, you know, if you got wool out there with no horns, a lot of people say, you know, they're funner to get around or they're less intimidating, but I've always said, said, yeah, you know what, there's some truth of that. But a bull with horns usually hits you with the tip of their horn and throws you out. A mulee hits you straight on.

Yeah. So it's like you're getting the center of the car instead of the, you know, the mirror. They're going to use your forehead to drive all that. Yeah. And like I said, that can hurt at times. But the biggest part that can really hurt somebody with animal is their feet. You know, when guys get stepped on and like I said, they're between 1,800 and 1,800 pounds and some more. That's a lot of weight coming down on a body, and that's when they can do some damage.

That's most of the injuries you think are from the feet? A lot of them are. I mean, there's definitely injuries in the bull ride, you know, getting whipped down, you know, where the bull's coming up, and their face gets the bull. I saw that one last night, that kid, and then he was like kind of stiff. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah, they get knocked out. Because he was coming down, bulls coming up, and you were in it. I mean, it was on your highlight.

So you did something. But that kid was out. Yeah, when a guy gets knocked out, that's hanging up to a bull and get knocked out are probably two of the dangerous things for us, because now we've really gotta work put in overtime. You know, when a guy gets knocked out, he is vulnerable, he is not functioning, he's limp.

So our whole objective even more now is to get engagement with that bull and direct him as far as we can from that bull rider. We don't cover the bull rider, we don't wanna create a bigger tar. on that bull rider we want to get separation from him the bull rider as much as we can and if we can get engagement and take him out of the arena that's the best best case scenario but they've also have what we call picket man guys on horsebacks and ropes so in big arenas

we've had it happen a Cody Webster myself several times in Chey Ann Chey and Frontier days it's a big big arena and a lot of times there we'll drag that bull out clear out to the deep water we say so out the middle of the arena get that bull hemmed up and and getting them spinning and getting them, keeping him engaged, and then allows those picket men to come in and then put a rope on him and then we're secure. Gotcha. And so we want everything away from that bull rider.

We don't want to be laying on him because it prevents a bigger target. And bulls go to vision, they go to movement. And we want a small target. We want to be the big target, and that's direct in that way. Yeah, I saw that one stood out, but then one writer got really hung up. and you guys were everybody's trying to get on there, trying to get him loose.

Yeah. That looks hectic. It can. Sometimes hang-ups can be really smooth and quick and, you know, in and out. And that goes back to kind of the reading situation. But then sometimes those guys get nodded in there really tight. Yeah. With the wrap that they take,

what basically happens is, you know, it pinches their hand down on that rope. And it's pulling against the block of that rope. And so it doesn't allow that. tail to be free to where that rope loosens up and then the rosen that they use now it's real gummy and sticky yeah and so they get laced in there pretty good so um my uh my goal for any hang-up is the sooner i can get in the easier we're going to get out because it doesn't allow that that's not quite as tight yeah and it doesn't sometimes that bull rider can get to spin in and rolling

so then then it's just knotting up even more and you know our objective there is to get in more likely on the off side of the bull rider so we're not tripping him up getting our arm locked under his arm, that way we're anchored in there, and then go for the tail. And we're going to pull that tail across from the bull rider because that's the natural way that it's going to pop and loosen up. So, yeah, sometimes it's in and out really smooth and clean. And sometimes you're in there for a while. The one I saw last night, it was a while. Yeah, that was probably a white bull in Houston.

I don't know. The kid was getting thrown around quite a bit. I felt pretty bad. Yeah, I think that's the Houston highlight. Yeah. Yeah, and not white bulls. So, yeah, it can be really good. It can be really bad.

Yeah. You signed up for it all. You know, I saw another one where they had like a big black thing out in the middle of the arena. Is that for a camp? What's that for? Yeah, so you see those at PBR's a lot. You know, the UTB events, the team events, the velocities. And I think it was pretty much originated in the PBR.

And it was a pretty cool feature, I think, because for one, they're just strictly bull riding. And 90% of the bulls, especially, you know, bulls nowadays, they've got a bucking pattern usually within that shark cage, they call it. But it allowed for a better camera view and an angle more up close and personal. But now they've made them where some of them are big enough to where it's like some VIP sitting and they'll rotate some sponsors or random fans in there to get an up close and person like a shark tank. Yeah. And so it's a pretty cool feature that allows for some great.

camera angles and and a lot of cool thing and it's another way it's kind of island of safety he's there's not really a barrel man at PBR's you know he's the entertainer still already found guys you know jokes and keeps the crowd involved and you know makes everybody laugh and have a good time but like at rodeos you have a barrel man and that's kind of you know part of their job the dangerous side of it is they're in that barrel and that's kind of the island of safety so whether the bull rider gets bucked off and goes out to the barrel, he can hide behind that while we engage that bull and get him out. Or sometimes if we're working one and we kind of get lined out, we can, you know,

work our way to there and kind of allow that barrel to peel that bull off of us and then we can reset. And then there's times we can do some cool things with it. You know, we can get the barrelman hit a little bit and then maybe jump the bull off the barrel, you know, give some entertainment because, you know, Rode is a big entertainment, you know, all sporting events are entertainment. And you got to keep that part of the sport alive because, you know, you know, you got to keep that part of the sport alive because for me, it eases the tension as well, and it keeps you having fun. And, you know, it's, you know, flirting on the edge is always fun for me.

Yeah. I remember with that shark take thing out there, I think I saw the bull. He had his head up, like he was wound up, but he didn't lost track of you or something, but he came around it. Then you came around this way. Then you could see when he saw you. Oh, yeah. And then he's like, oh, there he is.

Yeah. But he couldn't see you because that was blocking you, but then got locked in. That was in St. Louis, a little red bull. Yeah. Was that when I did a backflip? I don't think it was that one. No. I mean, it could have been the same bowl.

It was a different highlight than what I saw. But I just saw that you were going around to the right. He was coming around this way. His head was up and he's kind of looking around. Then he locked in on that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they'll engage. Sometimes they come a little harder than you want to.

Oh, some of those are fast. Yeah. They like bear down. Some of them, some of them doesn't look like they're like full speed. They're coming, but then some are just like. Usually those bulls that kind of check up like that, they've been fought a little bit. Like they, and that's where you've got to have, you know, be able to control your nerves and your actions a little bit because if you move too soon, they're smart enough that they'll cut you off. I see.

You know, four legs outrun two every day. Yeah. So you got to out maneuver them. So you got to have enough balls on you in a sense. Yeah. Hold your ground at times. Right. And not go too early.

Yeah, allow it to develop and then take your angle when you can. And, you know, there's dummy sessions we call them where, you know, it's basically a makeshift bull. And it moves just similar. Similarity like a bull does. A bull moves like a wheelbarrow. You know, in order for the front end to go somewhere, the back end has to come around. Yeah.

And so we do a lot of work with the dummy, the bullfight and dummy. But you've got to translate that over to the actual live cattle. and it can be pretty ballsy at times and let a big old hunk of hamburger come running at you and hold your ground for a little bit. Yeah. That would be,

I could see where you'd get tricked into going too early. Oh yeah. It happens. It doesn't work out. Yeah. Yeah. I've tried several times.

I was also wondering too, because I keep thinking about these analytics and training or whatever, but you've seen, well, sometimes the boxers do it where they're hitting lights, you know, because you talked about,

you got to touch out Bull's head sometimes or it's like some of the highlights I saw you like it's almost like you're directing either grabbing a horn getting them turned around a little bit but some of it it feels like or we did something here on the bosa ball not me and you but um where you're throwing a baseball yep and like keep is that any part of your training where you're trying to like yeah quick hands like that hand eye coordination okay you know a lot of it comes from your core as well And I always tell guys, you know, for us, we need solid core. We need speed and agility. And we need, you know, you want to be on your toes.

You know, you get rock back on your heels. Then you got to come up to your toes. Yeah. Yeah. So it takes you a little bit longer to react. So, you know, I was telling you yesterday, we work in peripherals a lot. So when I'm engaging this animal, if I'm working with somebody, I can see him or the bull rider or whoever over here, over here, just naturally, you know, feeding off my peripherals.

But I'm still engaged. Yeah. To the task at hand. And so, you know, hitting the lights and stuff like that, if we put something up right here, I'm probably going to just stay looking at you. Yep. And as the lights go on, I'm going to go off my peripherals, you know, and just the reaction time. And you just develop that.

And, yeah, it does benefit you in what we do. Yeah, I could see. I mean, there's so many factors that go into being successful or being the best. Yeah, I'm curious, like, so we're on the cusp of potentially 16-time world champ. we'll see but 15 what you know what what is your legacy what do you hope to leave like whenever that does happen but what do you want people because to me what i've told my kids is too is people are going to have a thought when somebody says your name something's going to come up what's it going to be uh and i don't know uh just somebody that was determined driven

and never took no for an answer. You know, and again, you know, to be somebody that I hope people can look up to in a positive way that, you know, maybe spurred them on or inspired them to do more than I did or what I did or whatever they choose to do in life. And just to know that each day is a gift and what you put in is what you're going to get out and just be grateful and thankful. Yeah, well, that's hard to question that. But I love what you're about. I mean, I've learned a lot from you, which is, like I said, that's like the selfish part of this. But just like your attitude and just the way that always evolving, you always want to, how can you get better?

And I think that, I mean, when I think of you, that's what I think about. And just being a hard worker badass, but always wanted to improve. So I want to, I mean, thank you for teaching me that. Thank you for, like, living the example you do because, you know, I'm going to take lessons I learned from you in this last couple days and it's going to make me better. So I appreciate you. I'm in the same goes for me. You know, this has been truly a great experience. Thanks for allowing us to go up the mountain again today.

Yeah. That was fun. That was just something that wasn't ideal, but I wanted to do it and just, like said, you know, keep hammering and keep grinding. try to make tomorrow better than today. Dude, you kicked ass, but before I ended, how about all the cool people we saw on the mountain? Yeah. I mean, you know, that group of ladies.

It's like everybody is so, I don't know, that's what I love about it too. It's like everybody up there, there's something special about them. They're on a, they're hiking a mountain in the morning. And we saw so many cool people up there. Yeah, today was good. You know, it was a great, great weather. It was nice and cool.

But yeah, there's a lot of great people. getting out and doing something, you know, being active and just taking in, you know, God's country. I know. I feel so lucky to be able to do that. But thank you, brother. I appreciate you. Thanks, Cam. Thank you so much for coming. Yeah. Let's do it again. Yep, let's do it. Well, we're going to reconvene there in Vegas here pretty soon. Yeah, I hope so. All right. Keep hammering, brother. Yeah, thanks, brother.