Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 103 - Cole Hocker

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

Join us for a discussion about running with Cole Hocker, an American middle and long-distance runner who specializes in the 1500 meters. Cole won the gold medal in the event at the 2024 Summer Olympics in Paris, setting an Olympic record.  Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Cole: https://www.instagram.com/colehocker/  Thank you to our sponsors: Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Cole’s Favorite Movie 0:03:51 What it Feels Like Having a Gold Medal 0:07:01 Having a Target on Your Back 0:10:13 Cole’s Mindset During 2021 - Matthew Centrowitz 0:14:19 The Challenge Between Slow VS Fast Heats 0:19:04 A Life Changing Medal & Tension of the Call Room 0:22:57 Olympic Race Predictions 0:28:41 Ad Break 0:31:06 Crossing the Finish Line with Gold 0:40:25 Cole’s Childhood - Growing Up Running 0:45:29 Outworking Others, Talent & Icons in Sports 0:52:42 Cole’s Diet & Sleep Regime 0:56:55 Breaking a 4 Minute Mile 01:03:33 Cole’s Dream College & Running Idols 01:05:44 Training to Reach the Next Goal 01:08:58 Cole’s Rivals 01:10:45 Why Cole is Coming Back to Compete Again 01:14:09 Outro

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right.

This is a Keep Hammering Collective. I'm here with Cole Hocker. Nice to be here. Thank you for having me. Man, what a day. Yeah, no, it's been good. I still got the pump going on from the lift. Yeah, yeah.

How was it? It was good. You put me through it on the first, the hills at Piscuit now. Now the weight circuit is good. Well, this is, dude, such a huge honor to have the current Olympic gold medals in the 1500 meter. I mean, best in the world, how did you win the Olympics? Yeah, I mean, first of all, if you guys haven't noticed, I'm wearing... Oh, God, I didn't even... Per request, so...

No, it was. I did ask. It's like we have never had an Olympic gold medal in the studio, if you can believe it. This is the first. And as I said, it's a huge honor. But man, that medal is legit too, dude. It is. We had to be very careful carrying it up to the top of Piscuit today. But it managed you get up there unscathed.

What an honor. So I think I'll take the one of the best questions I've ever heard asked of you was, was it hard winning the gold medal. Didn't you say a kid asked you that the other day? Yeah, yeah. At the Ducks game last night, a little kid, he was probably eight years old. He was kind of half turning around for like 10 minutes. And eventually I was like, hey, what's up?

And he's like, was it hard winning the gold? I was probably the best question I've gotten so far. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty hard. It was pretty hard, yeah. Yeah, what a journey. I mean, I asked you this earlier. Well, we've talked a lot, actually, earlier.

So actually, let me start with something we haven't talked about. How about this? What's your favorite movie? Probably Inglorious Bastards. Really? Yeah. That's a good one. What'd you like that one?

It's just so, so well written. It's like got the, I think it's three parts and it's all just so you're on the edge of your seat. Yeah. Just anything Quentin Tarantino is also interesting. I know. Is that the one where they're sitting in the bar and the guy said three? And he knew the way he held up three was the German or the American way. Yes, yeah.

And that was the tell because he did that. Then the other guy was just like, wait a second. It felt like a test the whole time in that scene. Wasn't it like trying to, they're pretending like they're just having drinks, but it was like. It was so everything was like had two meanings. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was such an intense movie. Yeah.

It's a good one. Yeah. Yeah, you put me on the spot there. I was blanking. That's a hard question. I know. Yeah, we just, I mean, I did a post about it, but my daughter just rented out that, you know, downtown Eugenie can rent out the whole theater for whatever movie you want. So we watched Last of the Mohicans, which is like an old, old movie, but I love it.

But yeah, it's like, we're a big movie family. So I think the next time for Christmas, it's got to be. be first rambo first blood oh yeah you ever seen that one i haven't seen rambos so you have it no no my god it's like my dad's like favorite movie i think so i definitely need to watch that well your dad's how old is your dad 60 okay so i'm basically 62 but yeah so we're probably from the same era well i mean so tell me i don't know i can't even imagine what it'd feel like to have a gold medal run your neck. What's it like?

No, I mean, it's still just like, I can believe it, but I can't believe it. Because it's, you know, I've been working for this since I, you know, not since I got to the sport, but as I've progressed through the ranks, it's like, it's that shiny thing at the end of all this work. And, you know, I'm always like happy with how I treat each opportunity I've been given. I feel like I treated the Tokyo Olympics like it could be my only Olympics. And then Paris, I had the same mindset. I'm like, this might be my only shot at this.

So let's make it count. And I'm glad I did, of course. But it's also another thing to think about now that I've, I feel like my career just started. And now I've got this thing that I thought I'd be working towards for my entire career. Good problem to have. but it's definitely taking some mental adjustments and shifts, but it's, you know, I don't know how long it's been even,

almost four months since that race. And it feels like it was three weeks ago. So it's all just been a whirlwind. And, you know, I'm doing like this tour, going to Ducks games, going to Colts games, and, you know, celebrating this achievement, but at the same time, I'm still in disbelief. I could, you know, I didn't think about that.

But once you say, you win a Super Bowl, it's like defending that or repeating, that's the challenge, right? So I didn't think about the gold medal being that way. But yeah, you had this thing that you thought was like this long distance, you know, no pun intended goal. And you might get it someday and now you got it already. So how do you keep that fire burning to like repeat or defend? Yeah. No, it's kind of something, you know, I don't think I'm ever not going to have the fire. I think, You know, most elite athletes, that fire is always there. You know, your body usually gives out before the fire does.

Right. And I feel like, you know, I still like, I wake up, revved up for a good workout in the morning and I'm ready to attack it. But, you know, it's the mental side of it that's, you know, harder to balance because, yeah, I think I was talking to Sam Kendricks is a U.S. Pole Walter and he said he won the world championships, I think, in 2019. he's like, congrats, now you got the golden handcuffs. Yeah.

And I'm like, that's a good way of putting it. That I'm kind of just having, you know, now the expectation's gold. And, you know, anything less than that is, you know, it's not a failure, but I mean, I expect. It's not gold. I expect to win. I expect gold. Yeah. But at the same time, I know my work ethic and I know what got me here and I know that that's not

going to go away. And so I have a lot of, you know, trust in myself, if that makes sense, I know I'm going to put my best foot forward when it matters most. And that's really all you can do in this sport. Yeah. Anything, really. So you don't think, I mean, have you always had a target on your back? I mean, because even just going through, like I looked at Wikipedia, which I don't know how accurate that is, but you've been like an elite performer for a long time. So you probably in some sense had a target on your back, even at middle school.

high school, whatever, it's like, oh, that's the guy who's getting all the attention, I want to beat them or I want to be my best. Has it been like that for you? Yeah, it has been. And it seems like every kind of every level I get to, there's a new, there's a new benchmark. You know, in middle school, it was to win the county championships. And then in high school, it was to win a state title. And I still had to work my way up. I didn't win state, you know, my freshman year. I didn't win it to my senior year. And so it was always just, yes, then once I won the state title, I had the target on my back. And then, you know, I went D-1 and was one of the top freshmen coming in. And I think, you know, eyes were on me to perform there. And, and I did. And I kept performing. And yeah,

I think that's something I tell myself now is that this is everything I prayed for and asked for was to be at the top of the game, top of the track world. And so now that I'm here, I don't want to, you know, sell myself short and kind of wimp out and fold because, you know, the eyes are on me and the target's on my back. And so, you know, I'm doing my best to just embrace that and go full steam ahead. Like I'm saying, I have a lot of trust and belief in myself. And that's not going away anytime soon. And I was just executing and doing the same thing.

Yeah, I do. I think that, I don't want to say true. I mean, who am I to say true champions? But a true champion is like when I think of like Jordan, you know, he, you know, if his last shot of the game, people are, it's going to be in his hands. I don't know if he's going to take the shot, but he wanted that ball. You know what I mean? He wanted it.

He wanted that pressure. And he got to the final six times. He won at six times, six MVP's. So that's, to me, that's kind of the mindset. that it sounds like you have is like, yeah, you wanted this. This is what you prayed for. And now you're not going to, you know, wilt from the pressure or you're just going to rise up and say, yeah, bring it on.

Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. And yeah, that's kind of like a way I've thought about it sometimes is say if I was, you know, betting on a race. I think I would choose myself at the most important races. where if I were just a bystander or a track fan, I think I would say, I'll put my money on coal because he rises to the occasion.

And, you know, I think I have to train myself to think that for it to actually, you know, happen. Right. You know, now it's happened and I'm hopefully, you know, making a habit of it when it matters most. I think, you know, I'm the best in the world and that's the way I want to approach races and, you know, anything I do.

But, yeah, I think you have to force that mentality until it's the reality. Right. Yeah. No, I get that. I'm thinking back, too, on, I mean, when I first saw you run, it had to be like the,

maybe it was, was it Tokyo before Paris, you said? Yeah. Yeah. So was it that trials? Is that where you did this intro thing, where you guys were looking at each other?

Yeah. So what was your mindset at that time? Yeah, the 2021 season was, you know, definitely, you know, that was my breakout season before this season, where I, good college runner to a great college runner to an Olympian all in one year. And so that was all happening really fast. And, you know, you had sent you what's on. And, you know, those who don't know,

he's the, he's the 2016-1500 meter champion. And he's American. And, you know, he's the goat in my eyes. He's the icon. That's who I was trying to emulate throughout my entire track career. And then before I know it, we're racing for the same spot on the 22nd. 21 Olympic team. You know, and it all gets built up by the media and, you know, people are going back and and forth, you know, honestly speaking for us, but, you know, it doesn't matter, it built up to a really cool moment and like kind of a, you know, passing of the torch, but, you know, he was still, I barely beat him in that race.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that was surreal moment of, you know, that's like what you always dream about. I was an athlete, you know, competing against your heroes. And so that was really cool. And then it was kind of always, well, he's always going to have the gold medal. Like, you can have a great career, but it's going to be hard to, you know, be in the same breath of sentiots unless you have those accolades. Right. And so now it's, it's even, it's even crazier.

And I just posted on my Instagram, like, that shot from 2021. And I'm like, someone sent me this, like, high quality because I want this framed. Did you get it? Yeah, I got the image. Okay. So I'm going to frame it and I think I'm going to send Matt one. Oh, nice. Yeah.

Because he'd DM me. But it's just like, it's pretty cool to add now more layers to that after the fact. So, I mean, that buildup was. Yeah, incredible. You can't write that up any better. No. And it just, you know, what you said, I don't, you didn't say in these exact words, but when your heroes become rivals, right?

Because you had looked up to him for he'd been the, icon for a long time and even at Oregon too I mean wasn't he because he was at Oregon also and so he was I don't know I mean a legend in this area and then here you come up as a young gun and I can't remember were you guys in opposite semifinals and then only met in the final we were in the same semifinal that's where we actually like looked at each other okay did he beat you in that one um I'm not sure but that one doesn't really matter no because top four or five whatever advance so that's kind of why it was like you know getting cheeky there at the end because he's like I got I got some more left and I was like so do I okay because because you

you don't want to blow yourself out just to win a semi because who cares no no one like I don't even remember who won between me and him and that right no one remember like yeah it doesn't matter it doesn't matter you're right and is there I mean if you do give all you got in the semi is there less in the final is that yeah I think so you think so right Yeah, I mean, there's whatever level you go to, the Olympic trials, I mean, it's an incredibly hard team to make. There's people that, well, you have to go all out to make the final, and that's the goal of the season. And then the same with the Olympics. In 2021, I remember telling myself, on the semi-final day, be prepared to go all out, sell your soul to make the final.

Because I didn't care. That was the goal was to make the final. You know, and then Paris is a little bit different story. I'm like, let's get through this as controlled as I can. It's still going to be a hard effort. You know, every race is hard. You have to go into it thinking that. But yeah, it's all, it all really just depends on where your goals lie.

Yeah. And then how much do you, I was just thinking about this too, as you said that, and we're talking about going full out in some eyes or heats. You know how some of these heats are slow and then some are super fast? Yeah. Like the slow ones, as long as you're in the top, you're going to make it. But if you're relying on time, then you're screwed on that. But do you think about like if somebody had a slow way where they didn't have to push as hard

as you had to push if you were in a really competitive one that now they're going to have more in the final? Do you think about that ever? Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a consideration. Like sometimes you'll have to run whatever. Say I have to run 332 in the semi. And then I'll watch, you know, one of my top competitors. in yesterday round 340. Right. It's kind of like, I'm going to race how I'm going to race regardless,

but it's kind of annoying. It's in the back of your head. Yeah, yeah. God, dang it. They've got an easy path in it. But another thing is, it's really interesting because sometimes a race will be really slow. They'll save all of that.

And then have to sprint all out for 100 meters. Yeah. And I think you can run a more controlled race. Like I did the first round of USA's this year. I kind of ran at control. And it was a fast time, but I never had to hit that other gear. The red line. When you wake up the next day and you're like, oh, my hamstrings are kind of tight.

Right. So there's ways to do it and there's a lot that goes into it. But, yeah, I think especially the U.S. system, the best runners always rise to the top, come through. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess no matter how it breaks down, it's like whatever story you're telling yourself. So as long as you can either twist a story to be like, no, I'm good.

or you'd be like, I'm fucked. Yeah. You know, so it's like, but if you're like, I'm fucked, you probably don't have what it takes to have that metal anyway. So it's like you've got to turn that story into like something that's going to benefit you and your performance. For sure. Yeah.

Yeah. I was just thinking about that too because I've seen some of those heats before and I'd be like, if I was running, I'd be like, God, I'd be wishing I was in that one to be a little fresher. But I know because if I think back to a race that was. was like that. You know, when Citro won the gold, it was very slow, but then it got down to the last lap and it was balls out. Yeah. You know, it seemed like. So it's, if that was like a semi-final, maybe that last lap would have had an adverse impact, even though the whole race was,

if you look at the time, you're like, oh, that was slow. Yeah. But it's like that last effort had to be hard. Yeah. No, I always think it's just like you're a casual fan if you try to dismiss that race in any way, because he beat the best 1,500 meter runners in the world. Yeah. You know, he ran a better 1,500 meter race. It's, yeah, if you're a track fan, you get it. And actually, how impressive that was closing in a 50. It's pretty insane.

I mean, yeah. That one, I remember he talked about this on, or that one on the podcast. He thought that, I think in that race, there was a delay. And they kept them, kept the runners back or something was screwed up. where the schedule was a little bit different. And some guys were so wound up that like it wasn't, you know, because track guys and girls usually are pretty regimented.

You know when you're going. You know what minute to do this, to do that. And this one, he said there was like a 10 or 15 minute delay or something like that. And it had people really worked up where he was just like the consummate pro

and be like, I'm good. Yeah. You know, so he thought that that had a big impact on the race too. It's like people were wasting mental, energy or nervous energy or something on something other than the performance. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I think that's the case with most of these global championships and kind of preparing for it to be different than every other race. Something I heard Michael Johnson say recently was like coaches will tell their athletes to prepare for the Olympics. Like, it's every other race. It's like, go out there, like, just do what you always do. and he's like that might be the worst advice because it's not like every other race.

There's going to be weird call times and you're going to have to warm up way earlier than you usually do. And this is also the most important race of your life. So treat it like that. And I really, I think that makes a lot of sense because there's all those little things. And if you can manage your way through all these weird things that you're not usually used to, then you're going to be one step ahead of everyone at the start. start line. Yeah. How insane is that is, I mean, it is a one race that can change your life because there's a lot of big meets out there. You know, the pre-classic is a big one. The Diamond League's

where you can make pretty good money. The world championships are huge, but an Olympic gold can change your entire course of your life on one race. So I get that point where it's not like every other race. I mean, and you have to know. No, it's not like every other race, it feels like. But I don't know, it's just crazy how every four years you have, you have to get through all these tests. And then on that one day, you have to be the best. Yeah. That's, no, it's a whole, I mean, from the trials building up to the Olympics, like you make the team, that's one weight off your back.

and then it's a buildup of anxiety and wanting to perform and thinking like this race could change my life, but also don't think about that, just race. So it's nerve-wracking. And in the call room is, I mean, that's like a living hell, I think. Why is that? It's just terrible. Everyone, you can see everyone's nervous.

So the call room is, is everybody warmed up at this time? Yeah, yeah. And then you're back. And so how soon is that before the race? So like the Olympics, it's like 35 minutes. Maybe, yeah, yeah, it's about like 30, 35 minutes. And everyone's done with their warm-up and they'll say first call, second call, third call.

By third call, you report to the call room. And so everyone in your race is in this room and it's not bigger than this room. It's small, it's tight quarters. And at that point, everyone's done everything they can up until that point, all the way through that last warm-up, which is just so, it's, it's, the tension in there is like, you can feel it. Mm-hmm.

And everyone's kind of not making eye contact, you know, putting on their, their race vest. Is anybody talking? Hardly. Yeah. Definitely at the Olympics, I don't think anyone talked. I think I might as, me and the USA guys might have said, good luck, but.

Okay. They're on the same team, but you're, Yeah, it's competition. You're trying to beat. There's only one. Yeah. Yeah. Are you watching body language in there?

I mean, are you seeing if people are like more nervous or what are you looking at? Are you trying to put on a show yourself? Yeah. I mean, I'm not. Yeah. I do like to, you know, present calm. But I like to, you know, do it externally. so my brain will follow is kind of the way I think about it.

So if I'm, you know, jumping up and down and jittery, then, you know, my brain's going to start freaking out too. So if I can just remain calm on the surface, then I like to think that I'll enter like a more calm state. Are you just thinking about your breathing at all, like just deep breaths or are you just trying to be just calm demeanor? Just calm. Yeah. I mean, it's all, at that point, it is just handling your nerves.

Do you have your heart rate? watch on? No. Oh, okay. No, that would, that was, that's with me. I think people would be looking at that going, oh, my heart, you know, whatever. Yeah. Too high. Yeah. I need to calm down and that probably makes it worse. Yeah. No, that would be terrible. Do you, does anybody else wear them, do you think? You can't wear a watch in the Olympics. Oh, you can't, okay. Then make you take them off. Oh. At USA's, there's heart rate monitors, but I don't think you're looking at it. Okay. You can wear a watch there either. Okay. Yeah. And, and, you can wear a watch there either. Okay. weird but yeah and so i mean where were you on the the form chart is that what it's called

form or like where they predict who's going to like finish yeah um what's that called i don't know exactly like you're projected yeah but like where were you projected do you know remember i think i think like fifth fourth fourth or fifth okay and then they had Kerr Or probably Ingebrigson was the favorite? Yeah, yeah. Ingebritson was the favorite. Well, it was kind of a toss-up between Inge-Bringen and Kerr. I don't know.

It depends which one you looked at, obviously. I think some might have predicted third for me. Okay. But I think the top two were locked up on most predictions. Yeah. So how do you look at that? Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, it doesn't phase me. that much because it is just that a prediction.

Yeah. But, you know, I took it as like kind of, let's prove them wrong. A slight. Yeah, like, that's how I think I have to approach it. Yeah. But at the same time, it's like, it's a little bit easier being the underdog or, you know, the eyes weren't on me to perform. And I think, you know, those two guys had to, to, you know,

take it from the front and, you know, because all eyes were on them and they were watching each other. And I was able to run my race and run it smart. Yeah. But yeah, I knew that I was, you know, much fitter than I was the previous year. I was the fittest I've ever been in my life. How did you know this? Just from the workouts? Workouts. And then also the Olympic trials was really big, mainly because, you know, I won and I beat Yard. Gardner Goose who was, he was slated for a medal all year. Okay. And I think that, I think before the trials, it was definitely I was not a metal favorite.

After the trials, it kind of turned it around a little bit because they're like, well, if you are it as a metal contender, then, you know, Coles beat him. And I knew how, I know how good he is. And I kicked off of a pace that I've never kicked off of at USA's. So it was, you guys went out fast and then you're saying you're still. had a kick. Yeah. You weren't blown out.

Yeah. Because I think we said on the run earlier that people would know you have a kick so they'd want to go out with a hot pace hoping to take away your kick. Yeah. Or the effectiveness of your kick. Exactly. Yeah. And so you're saying you kicked off a hot pace. Yeah.

Okay. And it's kind of been, you know, 2021, I came onto the scene and all these race, to compare the 2021 trials were I won in 335. mm-hmm 24 I want to end 330 and the 1500 that's a world of a difference five seconds is a lot yeah yeah yeah and that 2021 race was it was it was a steady pace but it was slow relatively and it was just you know all out last 150 um and it was like oh this kid has a good kick and at that point the world kind of saw that um and so then 22 and 23 was figuring out how to connect that that strength and that kick and I wasn't able to do it until the U.S. trials. I didn't really race the 1,500 all season up until then.

So I was really, I p.red in the 5K, I peered in the 800. And so right in between, I'm like, I know I'm going to run fast, but I have to see it first. And so the USA's was that last bit of confirmation. I was like, okay, like I'm ready to roll. And yeah, in the interviews right after that, they're asking me, you know, if I was going for a medal and I was pretty certain. I was like, yes, I'm going for a medal. I knew inside I was, you know, I should get a medal if I run my race,

but I was, you know, stayed on that. I don't want to go for bronze because I know how that ends up. So, yeah, I just, the trials were a big indicator. And then the rounds at Paris, I was just really relaxed. Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. So you had confidence going into the final.

Yeah, I did. How was your, what was your splits on the rounds? I think the first round was maybe 336 and then the next one was 332. And 332 is like, it's never going to feel easy. Yeah, that's still fast. Yeah. But it didn't feel that bad. Yeah.

And I was like, okay, like I kind of just kept that controlled. And that would have been like, that was one of my fastest times ever, like in my life, like top, probably top five or six fastest, fastest. 100 I've ever run and I was running it controlled. What was your PR going into the final? 330. 330. And I'd run that twice. Okay.

And I'd, it was technically a PR at USA's, but just by a fraction of a second. And I was like, well, I did that and I kicked pretty hard. I forget what I closed the last 400 in, like maybe a 54. I'm not sure exactly, but that was kind of indicated that. if I run it more even, then I have a big time coming. Yeah. Yeah. I knew sub 330 was, you know, not guaranteed, but I knew I was capable of that.

But then, like, 327 was, you know, kind of out of body. That's a big, big jump, dude. God, crazy. Yeah, I can't imagine. So I don't know how many times I've watched that race. Probably more than you. I don't know. It's such a cool story.

though, but in that race specifically, yes, it was super fast, but it seemed like because you were like, I don't know, there's such a rivalry between Kerr and Inkerbetson that they were like playing off each other. And I saw Inkerbritzen, I think, did he kind of, he came into the rail when you came up, but then he got distracted because you dropped back and then he went out to Kerr to try to push him off, right? Seem like that. And then you were able to sneak back in on the rail on the second time. Is that what it was?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, pretty much exactly like that. And of course, I don't know what's going on in their heads, but what it felt like to me was, you know, 200 to go. I moved into third. And I thought, oh, I have a metal locked up. Let's run. Let's just finish it.

Let's run smart and let's get to the line. and then, you know, I felt really comfortable. I was still on top of my stride. And, you know, in years past, at that point in the race, sometimes I'm losing my form and I'm going crazy and my chest is puffed out. But, you know, this time around I was on top of my stride. Yeah, it seemed like you were good posture, good, pretty tight.

Yeah, which was really cool to go back and watch the race just to see that progression. But then 100 to go, 110 meters to go. the inside opens up and you know i i like to think you know i'm pretty i'm pretty patient in those situations because i'm hoping something moves and usually almost all the time something moves especially when there's just three of us yeah um and so it opens up and i go for it and you see me go for it and then i think you know ingobritson sees me and he closes it down and he runs and starts running the shorter line which is smart like he's just such a good racer um but then cur comes on the

side and I think he kind of wanted to match him and so you know you had to pick one of the other and Kerr was you know the bigger threat maybe in his mind and so then it opened up again you know right you know I kind of was thinking should I go around and if you watch

the race you can see me kind of make that decision and then as soon as I think that the inside opens up and I can't believe it and you know comparing what was in my head to watching the race at that point I won the race but it was crazy watching the footage and I didn't move into the lead until 10 meters out from the line.

But it was like, in my head, I remember thinking I can't believe that. I can't believe that just happened because like, I don't know, it's just what you, it's kind of like what you dream about. Yeah. I mean, it is what I dream about. Perfect dream. Yeah. And I mean, so when you cross a line, what did that feel like?

Just like, did I went? I mean, I don't know. What were you thinking? Yeah. You can see it on my face a little bit. it's like, you know, in slow-mo, at 10 meters out, I'm already like, it's like a look of like disbelief. And I was telling this to someone else, but, you know, it was the weirdest feeling where, you know, I crossed that finish line and no one was in front of me. And it just felt like,

you know, this sounds like maybe like I'd make this up or it's like in a movie, but it felt like it was just like me and maybe two other guys on the track. and it was like almost quiet and like everything else disappeared and then you can see the disbelief on my face and then then I hear the loudest crowd I've ever heard at a track event honestly anywhere um and then I just kind of like you know let out a scream because I yeah I like know what I did and it's pretty pretty unreal oh that's insane I mean I can't even imagine it's uh I just can't, I don't know. I just can't imagine what that feels like as a runner to be, that is the pinnacle.

Yeah. That's the greatest it ever gets. I mean, and to achieve that at 23 years old, right? Or 24? 23. 23. Unreal. Yeah, that, I love watching those races.

There's a few races I've watched a number of times. I mean, I watch Central, of course, you know, because he's been on the show and a big fan of just track forever. So that was a pretty cool one. But then with yours, same thing. Just because I don't know those, it's, I don't know. I don't want to say, you know, current Incubritson, how tall are they? They just look like the prototypical middle distance. Like they're what six?

They're both a little bit taller than me. Yeah. Ingerberthens probably 6.2, maybe 6.3. Yeah, yeah. And then you're just back there just grinding and then you just fucking win. I mean, it's, I don't know. It's pretty amazing. And watching all the little, the chess moves of that last however long, you said at 200, you were in third.

But then did you get past? because I thought, or maybe you're still on third, but did you get past in between 200 and 100 by anybody? I don't think so. No. At that point, it was the top three. Stayed the same. I guess Ingebrids and faded to fourth, but.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So afterwards, what did they say? I mean, are they disappointed or they, what's the mood afterwards? Yeah. That's, I mean, they were both disappointed. I mean, Ingebrits and only won't gold, and that's, you know, why he's, you know, the champion that he is.

And same with Kerr. Yeah. And so they both came in with one goal, and that was gold. Yeah. But, you know, they both congratulated me after the race. And I still went on the podium with Kerr and Naguice. And, I mean, Naguze was obviously, you know, he's over the moon. He meddled.

just made it USA at one and three, which is just incredible also. That hasn't happened since when. I think it was like 1912 or something like that. Yeah, that could have been, was that the last time the US won before Centro? Yeah. 1912, I think. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, so God, what a, I mean, it's a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. I mean, crazy. And I saw, I did see the interview. I don't know who was with. It was you. and um is it naguos yeah and then talking at the olympic stadium i guess i can't remember do you remember that interview with you guys yeah on tv on nbc yeah yeah it's pretty i don't know i

i'd i'm just like everybody addicted to the olympics during that time and just love watching all the competition um yeah surreal yeah i mean that's what makes the olympics like that much cooler is that, you know, obviously you're in a track outside of the Olympics, too, but there's hundreds of thousands of people that don't care. They don't care about track at all until, you know, this one race at the Olympics or whatever it is. And then, you know, then you get a fan like for life. Yeah. Just like just incredible. And yeah, to have the race of my life at that race, yeah, yeah, I can't imagine a better scenario. I do think that we were talking, what's the world

record 126 or 326 yeah think you got that i mean naturally i got to i'm going for it you got to yeah yeah it's i mean it being your age and just like just talking to i'd love your mindset about improvement self-improvement and like the the incremental differences you can make that's going to help that performance and it just seems like you got i mean the perfect attitude mindset But I don't know, I don't know how other runners are, but like respect for the history of the sport. You know what I mean? It's like you know all that stuff. And it feels like that's part of how you create a legacy.

You know, you have a legacy now. But like you're not, doesn't feel like you're done. It's like you want to submit that. And when you think about it, doubling up in the 50s. 1,300 meter gold and two Olympics. Has that happened before? I think it has. It's been a while, and I think...

Never for an American, though, probably. No. Never for an American, for sure. Yeah, I should definitely know who it was, but I think it's been done once. Yeah. Yeah, someone fact-checked me, but... It's all good.

So, yeah, so you grew up, we'll go back, whatever, just real quick. So in Indianapolis, What's the track scene like there? I mean, Indiana is like, there's a lot of good runners that come from Indiana. Yeah, it was, it was always like, you know, my dad is really involved in my training and all of that and at my practices. And it was always like, he gave me the tools and he kind of just like put him on the table

for me and either I can use them or I don't. And I definitely used them. Did he push you or did you, did you not need that? I mean, I think like a healthy, you know, he kind of showed me like, this, you're naturally talented at this. And like, but it's, he was never, you know, too pushy. But I think it was a healthy amount. And I wanted to. Better dad than me then.

Because I definitely push my boy. He's probably unhealthy. There's a balance. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. Was he a runner? Yeah, he ran through high school.

but, you know, not past that. And then when I got back into running, he got back into running. Oh, really? Yeah, and then, you know, got into it. And you ran a 50-mile for his 50th birthday. Whoa. So that was big. That is.

But, yeah, he was always, you know, just there for, you know, keep me kind of dialed in. Like, what tools did you say he'd put out there? Like, what would he do? Well, like, pretty early on in, like, elementary school, we went to, like, did, like, a form, like a running form. little summit class, which I honestly still think about, just like the basics of running and running efficiently.

And then, you know, to these, you know, believe it or not, there is running camps, which might be funny, but, you know, went to running camps and, you know, on these treadmills in middle school where I, you know, I figured out that have some natural speed. And then also just, you know, found this training program and kind of, you know, tailored it. for me as well and it was kind of just an assistant coach you know throughout elementary middle school high school your dad was yeah yeah okay but kind of he would take a step back and a step on anyone's toes but you know he was kind of making the training yeah that's interesting um so but you always cared yourself you never had to be like no i don't want to go to do this or yeah you know because

it seems like kids it's hard for kids to stay focused on any one thing if they can and you can start that discipline and that focus like at a young age then by the time you get in your 20s you're so much further ahead of every other competitor unless they too have been focused their entire life but so were you always you always cared yeah I mean about being being the best you could be yeah yeah um I think it's funny now I've you know I was really into watching sports and when I was in like elementary school and we get so into the Colts games and Paco's games and get wound up. And at that age, I would like, you know,

I'd be so upset like I lost if they lost. And then, you know, I think it was like, I found something where, you know, I had a natural gift for. And then I could also, you know, work at it. And it's so beautiful about running is you get out what you put in. And I think I noticed that pretty early on.

And I wanted to outwork everyone. I thought who, I kind of think of who would work me. It was just kind of how I thought about it. And I still think about that today, but, you know, finding that avenue where I could, you know, excel and work at something. And there was a tangible result. You know, running is so, you know, clear cut. You either run faster or you don't. Right. Or you win or you lose. Right. And so it was very easy to see. And, you know, I liked winning and I hated losing. So it was the perfect, you know, combination. And yeah, I just always had that. You know, I think it's, that's the case for, you know, anything if someone wants to, you know, get their kids into it.

Like, they're going to have to love it and you can't make someone love something. Right. Yeah. I mean, I face that in a different way with, I would hunt the wilderness for elk and people would look at it and be like, oh, I want to do that. But then they get back there. And it's like, you're by yourself. It's hard and then they realized they thought they were going to love it but they don't and you can't make them love it you know it's like if they don't love the suffering of the mountains they're going to be miserable the whole time and so it feels like that's kind of what what your example is like too it's like you loved it and you can't make somebody love it so yeah your dad was there these people helped you but it was it was based on the love you had for competition yeah and from being your best um

Yeah, so how would you, if you'd say you have to outwork everybody, how would you do that when you're young? Yeah, at that point it's like, you know, it changes as you're going through and, you know, going through the systems and, you know, middle school to high school to college to professional. But running's one of those things where you can't just put in more reps always. I think basketball and, you know, other skill-based sports,

you can shoot more baskets. it's, and you're not going to get injured doing that. With running, you can't just run more and more and more and more. You're going to get injured and you're going to break. And so it was kind of finding those areas where, you know, it's almost like, you know, it's, you know, are you lazy or are you not? We're like, you know, there's all these little things like, you know, be dialed in on your diet and, you know, you can just say you eat healthy or you can really pay attention

to where you're eating and, you know, dial in your sleep and all of these little things. where especially in high school, no one really cares that much. I think, you know, there's a good group of people that do care a lot, but it's pretty, it gets separated pretty quick. And then I think you move on to, you know, college and that weeds out the people that didn't really care. And now everyone cares. And so you have to drill down even tighter. In the professional scene, you know, people are doing this for a living now. And they're, they're not going to cut any corners, but there's still those little areas where you can, you know, check in with doctors and see how your blood is and so many things you can do. And I just don't think everyone is staying on top of all those things.

So, you know, you can't stay on top of everything and you can't overanalyze, but I think I can outwork people, you know, elsewhere off the track. Out dedicate them, basically. Yeah, exactly. I'm more dedicated to this process than you are. Yeah. Yeah, because you see people like in every walk of life, they put in some effort. They're like, okay, I need to be rewarded. I'm going to have a drink or a beer or a cheeseburger or whatever.

But yeah, so in regular life, people do that way more often. They're rewarding themselves way more often than the work they put in. But it probably, as you said, the complexion of that equation changes, but still in the professional ranks, they're still human. So it's like how often are they, say they deserve a break or a cheat meal or a whatever. And if you do it less, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I guess you got a separation there. No.

And I think that that was more clear to me when I turned professional and met professional runners and realize they still wake up and feel like they don't, I don't want to do this. I do too. But like, they've definitely been humanized. And like, honestly, some people, some of these. runners lifestyles. I'm like, you can, you're just like sitting on gold and not doing anything with it. You know, you could be so much greater, but you're kind of depending on your talent.

Yeah. You know, I have, I do know a few professional athletes, and I was asking, you know, there's one that has a mindset that I'm thinking of like you. And I asked how, how dedicated are, you know, your teammates and it's a team sport? He's just like, not that. Yeah. And I said, oh, just like talent. It's like, yeah.

And so if you, so of course everybody's good. Everybody's got the talent. That's how, that's why they're pros. But they're just getting by on talent. But if you have somebody who wants to be like, you know, this icon of the sport, it's just like everything. It's, yeah, of course talent. That goes without saying.

But then it's like all the details and the training and the office. in the off season. And yeah, I was going to, I love taking new people hunting. And this is in totally in there, as far in the off season as you could get, they said, no, can't go, go to train. And you know, I love that.

Yeah. That's what, because that's who you remember, the icons, you know, I mean, of course people know, I guess Reggie Miller would be an icon if I'm thinking of the Pacers. But didn't you have, like, do you remember that last?

Shramp yeah yeah okay so and I'm not nothing about him but I mean there's icons like Jordan you know what I mean everybody knows Jordan patient fans would know Reggie Miller and Della shrimp and everything in all that's some great players I think was it Roy Hibbert the center yeah yeah I love that team too because they were because they were playing the pay the uh bulls all the time But yeah, the icons of anything are the ones who just like just want it more. Have the talent, of course, but then also will sacrifice more than even the other pros. So that's kind of where you're at it feels like. Yeah, I mean, you know, everyone's heard this, but going to practice and doing that work, that's the easy part.

Yeah. That's where you get amped up and you're like, like, let's go and put it in work. I'm sweating. I'm out here. you know, I'm in the cold or I'm in the blazing high heat and you kind of get amped up. But then it's like when you go home and no one else is there and how are you recovering, even though that sounds, you know, crazy to be like you have to relax more to get better. Right.

Yeah. And like what you were saying about hunting, I think so many people like the idea of it more than what it actually is. Yeah. But you're not going to get very far. No. I mean, who doesn't. like the pomp and circumstance of the Olympics and seeing all that. It's like, okay, well, how bad do you want to be there?

Of course, everybody would love that. Yeah. But it's like, yeah, are you willing to pay the price? You know, I had this other guy too. We were running Piscoe. We did a couple summits and it was dark. And I think it was kind of rainy. He's like, man, I can't believe we're out doing this right now.

And I said, well, this is fucking easy. We've got a camera guy here. We're together. I said, you want to impress me? Do the shit by yourself at night in the rain. That's what I, that's what I, that's what impresses me. Not to be like we ran today and it was great, but remember all the people out there? Everybody's in a good mood.

It's sunny. It's Sunday. The ducks won. This fucking life is great. Okay. Do it when the ducks lose. Yeah. It's some shitty cold December rainy day and you're out there by yourself.

Yeah. That's what I want us. That's who inspires me. Yeah. Yeah. No, that I mean, yeah, that's the difference. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's so, you know, I don't know. I don't know. It's just like I'm not that Olympic athlete like you or the champion, but I still think about like I, even for what I do in my little life is like I still have to outwork everybody. I still have to do more than anybody would do. And that's been the only, that's the only way you make a name for yourself essentially. Yeah. No.

I was curious too. So what is your diet like? Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't have like a, you know, I don't, it's not anything crazy, but, you know, I just make sure I'm, you know, fats carbs, fats carbs and proteins and just paying attention to everything. And honestly, now I'm paying attention to a lot of the extra shit that's added to food. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the seed oils.

I know. I mean, that's terrible for. inflammation and I mean you name it it's also bad so you know all my meat I'm trying to get from you know local farms I don't yeah put any any crap into it um but yeah it's a you know I also it's like there's all these things you consider but you can't be so strict I think at least for my my life where you know I don't count my calories you know maybe I could but yeah I think sometimes that gets in the way of performance. And so, yeah, just I think eating smart and just being smart about where you're putting in your body because that's the fuel.

And you got to fuel right. Right. Yeah. And then you mentioned sleep earlier. How much do you pay attention to that? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of the same thing where, you know, I usually get around eight to eight and a half hours of sleep. you know and i i don't think you get this far without having a a good feel of your body

where i know if i need more sleep and i'll you know i'll catch up on it or whatever um but it's all the same things where i'm focused on how do i you know optimize my sleep right i mean you know people like huberman you know talk all about that yeah you realize how valuable that is um where you can be laying in bed for 10 hours but you didn't have quality quality sleep. So do you have a sleep eight bed? Do you know what that is? No. Um, so it's like that we have one, but I think I think they're a sponsor or they were. But anyway, it does the temperature of your bed. So it like to sleep better, supposedly they say the bed should be cold and more blanket's on. And then it tracks your sleep. But I'll say how long you were in our rim sleep, how long, you know,

different things. And so it's, but that, that temperature of the bed and then it heats up as you get, I think, closer to waking up. But yeah, it's just another, another tool to measure quality of sleep essentially. And it'll give you a score. Yeah. No, I could really use one of this. Yeah.

I think, I mean, Huberman has one because I stayed at his house and I was just like, I had a sleep eight bed and I didn't even have a hooked up or set up. And I went and stayed at his house and he had that. And I was just like, holy shit, I've never slept so good. So came home and set it up and that's a big one. Yeah. No, I mean, that sounds amazing. And I never used to worry about it because I never had time to sleep when I had my job.

It's like I still needed to get all my miles and still needed to do all the training. Still had to work. I was at work 10 hours a day. So I'm like, I have no time. You know, sleep is going to suffer. I just don't have time to sleep. Yeah. But now, yes, I've noticed.

that even at my age, my elderly advanced age, I'm still able to perform like I did decades ago. And I think it's because of just better sleep, better quality sleep, better food, supplementation, all that, which is, you know, we're learning so much about performance every day, it seems like. We have these, we have the Hubermans and Dr. Andy Galpin and these people were learning about, in that guy up on Piscuit today. What was that guy's name? The football guy. Oh, yeah.

From Australia. His name's Ben. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, but there's so many people that that's their job. It's like, how do we help these people perform at the highest level? And that's exciting. Yeah.

Cal, I thought of something, too. So you said, like, you were this running phenom. It seems like I saw you ran in the eighth grade of fourth. 36 mile, which is insane. But then what happened, you said you won the state title as a senior. So what happened like the first three years? Yeah, I mean, 436. That had to be like a record, was it?

I actually got beat in that race by another eighth grader. Did he? He might have the record. Who is it? His name's Luke Upton. He gave it to me. But, yeah, I ran 436 there. Hey, do you remember that race?

Like, how much did he beat you by? Like a second. Yeah. Yeah. And so do you remember that, like, what happened? I mean, before that race, I think my PR was 348. So. Way faster.

So I ran way faster. 12 seconds. Yeah. Kind of, so I was happy with it. Oh, okay. Gotcha. I was still like, I still got B. And I ran.

Yeah. crazy yeah um but then my senior year i ran for a 407 in the 1600 okay um i mean so that's that's the difference and each year i was chipping away at that and my junior year i got second um the thing is with indiana was it in the mile or what was it yeah 1600 okay which is nine meters short oh got you okay um yeah but you know a lot of states have like divisions in high school but indiana was all won the best people all raced um that's like hoosures did you ever see it yeah yeah because didn't in that movie didn't even those tiny school play the big school yeah i mean it's that's kind of how it's yeah yeah yeah okay no it's exactly like it's just there's this big turn like bracket pretty much

on how you advanced a state but it's everyone in the state has the same chance of getting there oh i see um so it's a lot harder to win i think there's only like two like one other state that does that but that's my excuse for why I didn't win until the senior year gotcha yeah and you ran 407 as a senior yeah so when did you break four-minute mile I broke that my freshman year at Oregon I ran 358 which what my first race at Oregon I ran I also ran 407 and the mile and I was kind of like am I just stuck at that is this my peak is this the fastest I can go um and And then, you know, I think that happens a lot when you get thrown into college running and you're with all these guys that are just beating you up in practice, kind of get thrown

to the wolves a little bit, gave it a little bit of time. And then, yeah, I ran 358, my freshman year, Oregon, which was, you know, sub four was the really big goal. Then that next year was, that was that 2021 season. Okay. And me and my teammate Cooper Tier, we ran 350 indoors, which, he just just beat me at the line and that was a collegiate record and I was number two and that eight seconds faster in just one year yeah that was like that was one that was one that was one that

on paper sounds just like what happened yeah um but it was COVID was in the middle of that and it was weird and we're just training really hard okay um also just matured a lot physically um I was kind of you know a big change but um that race kind of broke the NCAA a little bit people were like what just happened like i think it was 352 was the record and that was like untouchable um now everyone's running kind of just crazy i don't know there's a lot of things to chalk it up to but um but yeah that was the the progression and now i think my 327 converts to like 3403.3.4 3, maybe 344. 343.

Oh my God. Which I still have to run the actual mile to get that's a conversion. I run 348, but. That is so fast. It's kind of unreal. Like, just, yeah. What's a mile world record? 343 flat.

Or maybe not flat, but something. Yeah. So you're there. I mean, you're right there. Yeah. I mean, conversion-wise. That's insane. Yeah.

I mean, because it's like the 407 is a freshman's, not even that long ago. Yeah. You know? No, it's not. Yeah, five years ago. Oh. Oh, crazy.

I was curious. So when you're getting out of high school, obviously you had a big name, how did that do you always want to go to Oregon? Or what was your, what was that process like? Yeah. Oregon was my dream school. I watched the pre-Fontaine movie when I was super little getting into running. And so that just kind of like planted that seed.

and then it was kind of just a dream, you know, until, you know, I had to have the results to back it up. To me, that was like, that's where you go if you want to be good in track. You know, there's a lot of good schools, but that's where I wanted to go. You know, Nike U is also just cool to, you know, as a high schooler, you want to be there. Yeah. But yeah, it wasn't until my junior year where I started getting college offers and then my senior year where, you know, I actually emailed Oregon first.

Got no response. And there was a coaching change happening, but I was kind of like, okay. Like I feel like my times are fast enough, but still getting no response. I got a response and eventually, and it's now my- Did you send another email? I think so.

What did you say? Hey, hey, fuckers. Yeah. Like, I'm going to be here, whether you like it or not. I'd have to forget. I was in town in Portland. I was coming to town for a night. other thing and I was like I'm going to be here like can I just visit the campus and

I heard nothing and then a couple months later you know my now my current coach contacted me and we talked talk through it and he's like we got a spot for you and you know was at Oregon at that time yeah okay yeah Ben Thomas who's now at Virginia Tech but um yeah that's that's how that went down and it was you know the dream and then I feel like rarely does something like that live up to the dream. But in this case, it definitely did. It did, huh? Yeah, which is just so cool.

Yeah, I know. I've been down to the new Hayward, and I've been, like, have you walked through the old stuff? And then I watched a movie about, like, like the men of Hayward or something like that in that little theater. Have you done that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

No, it's... But for a runner, I could see, like, with all that history and then pre-fontaine, and then it's like, of course, yeah, you got... If you're, I mean, you want to run an Oregon, if you're a track. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It was a no-brainer. Yeah.

So, I don't know. I think when I was, when you were saying that you would outwork people in high school, I was thinking back to that without limous movie with Pree. And I remember they would go, or he would go and run 10 miles before school. Like, and then go to school, then do the track practice. But it seemed like he had that attitude about outworking everybody. And then his mindset. you know, as we talked about earlier, the suicide pace.

And, you know, he's going to win to beat him. You're going to have to be willing to die. And today's a good day to die. I mean, all that stuff is so epic. But was, like, who were you running idols coming up? Yeah. I mean, that was the first runner I'd heard of. Yeah.

So, I mean, that's just like the icon of, I feel like, any young runner. And then most of them were, you know, Oregon, Oregon alum. It was, you know, Galen Rupp, Centuitz, Andrew Weeding. Those are the big names. Futsum Zinissalasi is from Indiana, and he ran at Northern Arizona. And he was kind of the first guy close enough to me in age where I was like, he turned pro, and I was like, oh, wow, like that's like the pathway there. So, like, yeah, all those guys, and, you know, I was just fascinated in Oregon.

and, you know, all these guys that I named were Olympians and just like footsteps that I wanted to follow in, but, you know, I had a lot of work to do to get there. So getting to Oregon was like, you know, like I said, a dream come true, and, you know, now I get a chance to kind of prove that I belong there to. Yeah. Yeah.

When did the Olympic dream seem real? Because when you're a kid, it's like, it's probably hard to think about. the Olympics too realistically. Yeah. But when did you realize that I could make this team? Yeah.

Someone asked me like a couple weeks ago, like when did you decide to start training for the Olympics? And I kind of thought about it and I'm like, I never really decided to train for the Olympics. I trained to reach whatever goal was next.

You know, started with a state title and then it was an NCAA title and then it was win USA's. So that 2021 season. I keep going back to it, but it was just that breakout year where, you know, we ran 350 indoors and that qualified us for the trials, but still not fast enough for, like the A standard. And you need the A standard and top three to make the team. So we had the B standards that we got to race in the Olympic trials. And I was like, I didn't even know, like, that wasn't the goal of this season was to make the Olympic trials, but, you know, now I've

qualified. This is kind of crazy. And then the year kept going on. And I, I won three NCAA titles that year. And then I got into a couple races with some professionals, and I was beating them. And then by the time trials rolled around, NCAs is over, I won that. And kind of the top people were sentiwits and at Yard Naguze, who was also a college guy at that time

and hadn't proved it yet on the professional. Did he go to Oregon? He went to Notre Dame. Okay. Yeah. But it's just kind of been like, we've kind of been progressing together through this. But that's, you know, yeah, by the time the Olympic trials rolled around,

that's when the Olympic dream was like really late. Yeah. Because I'm like. You're proven yourself. Yeah. I'm actually in this situation now. And going into that, I still didn't have the time. But there's another kind of confluded, but there's, you can also get it off world ranking.

Yeah. And me and my coach talked about it. We're like, well, we don't have the time. time, but if we win this race, it should bump up my world ranking to make it. So that's exactly what happened. And I actually finished the race not confirming that I was making the team. No A standard. Yeah.

But you got the world ranking. So I had to wait like a week until they called me. But I had a pretty good feel. We were running the numbers and we were like, that should make it. But it was still kind of. What was your time and what was a standard? I ran like 335. point like point three i think the standard was sub three 35 oh and i'd run three 35 like two or three

times that year but it was just because i was i was just racing that yeah i was never going for a time right and yeah it was always like damn like maybe if i was going right there yeah i mean that's what is that 300s of a second yeah is that what it was yeah or that's like not yeah not not much um yeah well that's in i don't know No, it's, yeah, pretty incredible. Yeah, so that changed. Okay, now I wanted to get to this part. So we need to start talking shit to make people care.

When did, like, who, okay, well, we can't just go into talking shit about people. But, like, who's your rivals now? Like if you want to get another one of those, who's like your biggest threat, do you think? It's the same guys. Yeah. They're not getting too old? No. No.

They'll be in it for the next Olympic cycle for sure. You're younger. You're kind of on the younger side, though. Yeah. I mean, Angerberthin's also pretty young. I think he's a few months older than me. Oh, okay. Yeah.

So he'll be around for a while. Yeah. Kerr's a little bit older and the goose is a little bit older but you know it's you can never count out like the athlete that I was

this time around where I think you know there's that athlete that's right on the cusp and they just need that breakthrough race yeah and that's that you never want to count out right and I'm never

going to count that out because that was me so who's that right now do you think it's a good question could be anyone yeah Yeah.

I mean, Hobbskester was the other American. He was fifth. You know, Neil's Laras was also, I think he was sixth. There's a handful of people that are always in the mix, but, you know, haven't got that global metal yet. And like I said, that was me. So, you know, I'm trying to crush their spirits before they can get a chance. All right.

Now we're talking. So, yeah. Why are you going to repeat? I think I'm the best at, you know, rising to the occasion. Okay. Like what I was saying. Do you remember Big Shot Bob? Do you know who that is?

I don't think so. Oh, I think he played for the Lakers. I think he won seven NBA championships. I think he's won more than Jordan. Yeah, yeah. Can we fact-check this? Look up Big Shot Bob. Tell me how many championships.

So point is, is like he hit a lot of big shots. Okay, yeah, yeah. So he rose up to, even though he doesn't have like, you know, we don't even sure how many titles he's got, but he hit a lot of big shot. So you're like, you rise up. You're not big shot Bob, but big shot Cole. Yeah. Right?

And that when it matters, you're going to get it done. Is that what you're saying? I think so. Yeah, back to like what I was saying earlier. If I'm, take myself out of the race, I'm watching on TV, I'll put my money on me. Yeah. If just look at my career and all these races where I'm going into it, like he should be top three, we'll see. And I end up winning.

And I, you know, that's like more. I proved to myself more and more that I'll rise to the occasion when it matters most. And, you know, this was now the pinnacle. of the sport of the Olympics and I had the race in my life. I just have a lot of trust in that. Right. Yeah, that's good. It's Big Shot Rob.

No. Rob? And he has seven. Yeah. What's his name? Robert Orie, right? Is that what it is? Yeah.

No, see, that's Bob. Robert. They call him Big Shot Rob. Robert, Cory. Yeah. No, they don't. Big shot Rob. No.

Robert. Bob is short for. Robert. Did you know this? Anyway, he's got seven. Yeah. See? That's impressive. That is impressive. He hit a lot of big shots. So, you're the best.

You're the best in big races. But you got to assume people are going to improve because they're going to chase you. How are you going to improve? Yeah, I mean, that, exactly. Like, the sport is always it's always rotating and cycling. And, you know, I got

like sixth in in Tokyo. and it's like, it's not like sixth was guaranteed at this Olympics. It's not like I have to beat, I only have to beat five guys. Like those people cycle out and some of the same guys, but, you know, I also have to get back to that level. But I think there's so many areas for me to just, like we were saying, just dial in. Yeah.

Yeah, I just, you know, my biggest thing is just staying healthy and staying consistent above all. Like, you just got to, you got to protect the goods. Yeah. You know, you're not going to get anything if you're if you're not running. So I'm just trying to stay healthy because that was the name. That was number one priority this past year. And, you know, we saw what that got me.

That's a boring answer, but that's my answer. Yeah. You got to stay the path, basically. Yeah. Not go on too much of a victory tour, get back to work. You always got to get back to it. We did two summits on Piscay. You just keep doing that.

We're putting in the work. You got a PR on your bench. Exactly. This is looking good going into 2025. Yeah, look at this. So two summits, a PR on the bench, freaking killing it with the bow, which... Look at this.

This is Cole Hawker's new Hoyt. They keep hammering addition. What do you think of that? Yeah. What's the poundage on that 200, I think? It was right under 200. It was like 190. It's one of the highest poundage.

bows ever recorded by man. But yeah, you shot great today. And what I, you know, we talked about too. What I like about it is it, when you're so consumed with a goal or something in your life, it's hard to like turn it off sometimes. But shooting a bow, it's like that way, like you're not even thinking about it, but you're not thinking about whatever you're obsessed with. You're thinking about shooting this bow and doing all a million different little things we

talked about you know we had the herd bull down there i call wayne the herd bowl because he's like he's like one of these big bulls here and he's been doing it forever but uh so he's like the leader um but all those little tips and and things just checks and balances you got to do to make sure that arrow's going to go where you're aiming so when you're thinking about all that you can't be distracted by the regular pressures of life so it's almost like therapy in a way where it's just you're so into what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, it's a skill that I didn't think I would want to get better at,

but now I'm like, maybe I'll take up, maybe I'll take a bow shooting. There you go. Well, you did a great job today. I mean, and we can tell right away kind of how somebody's going to do. And like with your first, even like that release and practicing that release with that trainer and then getting the bow, we could tell after a handful of shots. I'm a natural. You guys heard that. Yeah, no, you did great.

I figured you're being nice, but I'll take it. No, you did great. You did great. I had an amazing day. I know you've had, you know, you got plenty to do. The gold medals in the Olympics, you got plenty of things you could do and you spend an entire day, lift, run, shoot with me, did the podcast, and I'm so thankful. I mean, I've been a fan. You know, I've been a fan for years. I love watching people perform at the highest level.

And a goal that I have with this podcast is talking to outliers and trying to, there's like some common themes. If you're the top of your game, no matter what it is, there's these common themes that ties these winners together. And so that's why I love sitting down with you and talking about your mindset. And I'm so impressed by what you've done at 23 years old to sit there with the gold medal and then have these goals of getting better and improving. It's, I don't know, it's very inspiring to me,

and I know to the listeners, they will love it. So thank you for being so open and sharing and willing to spend time. Of course, yeah, I really appreciate it. And yeah, today was great. I always love coming back to the old stomping grounds of Eugene. Yeah. No better guide. You're a hero here.

We saw a lot of people on Piscca that recognize you, and we're pretty tickled to see you up there. took pictures and I think they were surprised. It's cool. Yeah. It's a good Sunday for them to see the local legend. So thank you. Man, it's an honor and I can't wait to see what you do on the track here coming up. And I don't know, can't wait for the next next Olympics.

Me too. Actually, I can't wait. Give this one some time. Yeah, no. As a fan, I can't wait. I wish it was every year. But I know you got, yeah, you got plenty. of other things to achieve and accomplish.

And yeah, just want to thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right, cool. Take care.