Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 105 - LIVE from Cactus Jack with Michael Waddell, Jerry Wascom & Brian Stephens

Episode Date: December 14, 2024

Join us for a discussion with Michael Waddell, Jerry Wascom and Brian Stephens as they talk about the giant bucks of Cactus Jack Ranch, deer management, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Cactus Jack: https://www.instagram.com/cactusjackranch/  Thank you to our sponsors: Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Timestamps: 0:00:00 What’s Special About Cactus Jack Ranch 0:10:25 The Cactus Jack Team 0:13:16 No Buck is Guaranteed 0:20:28 Deer Management 0:24:11 A Brotherhood & Fellowship in Hunting 0:31:17 Trophy Bucks - Don’t Waste Your Life 0:33:42 Waddell & Wascom’s First Time Meeting Cam 0:36:35 Big Names, Competition & A Change in Competitive Nature 0:38:33 Telling the Story - Hunting Culture 0:45:47 A Passion for Hunting 0:51:41 Hunting & A Connection with Nature 0:56:32 Sharing the Passion for Hunting 0:59:24 The Golden Triangle of Texas 01:03:47 Giant Bodied Bucks 01:10:55 The Goals for Cactus Jack 01:12:43 Outro - A Special Place at Cactus Jack

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right.

Well, this is the Keep Hamering Collective. This is like a call out to Waddell here, a road trip version of the Keep Hamering Collective. We're here at Cactus Jack Ranch. And we've got the owner here, Jerry Woff. Thank you, Jerry. We've got Michael Waddell, everybody knows, the bone collector, and my buddy, Brian Stevens. And we're here, and basically in Whitetail Heaven is how I would describe it. I mean, before we hear from Jerry, what would you say about this place so far, Brian? Well, I've grown up in Texas my whole life, and I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it. It's the numbers with the quality is unparalleled. Without a doubt. Yeah.

I mean, the number of deer, usually when you see numbers, you're not seeing the quality, but you get both here. So I've never, yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah. Michael. Yeah, I was scared I'd have woke up in glory. I was like, I told camera I got off, I was talking to myself in the blind and crazy. You know, thinking about it, we were talking, sharing stories.

Heck, man, I remember I was like 18 or 19 going out and working with Real Tree and going like to Incinitas Ranch. We'd go to the Perlitz. And I remember thinking like, this is amazing. Like Texas hunting is crazy and it's awesome. It's December. Here it is close to holiday. So it's just a good time to get away.

And Cameron and I have been talking about sharing the camp together back when we did a podcast. Heck, I think it was January, February. And then so I knew this place had several friends that told me about it. And Cameron said, you should come out, man. So we put it together. I was like talking to myself. I've never seen anything like it. And I've been a lot of cool ranches in Texas.

but I was overwhelmed at the mountain of deer we saw and nice bucks. You know, I was just, I don't know. Like I said, I'm still, I'm thinking, like I said, I'm like, man, I hope nothing happened to me and I didn't wake up in heavy. Because if heaven's like this, I'm all right. I'm good, he's going to be all right, huh?

It's going to be all right. And you guys have such glow in reviews, and you haven't even shot an arrow yet. No. So this is just experiencing the hunt and what's out there. It haven't even killed, which is amazing. So hearing all that, Jerry, and it's no surprise you've created this diamond in the rough, basically. Well, it's not even the rough because it's South Texas.

This is the Golden Triangle. Why is Cactus Jack so special? And tell us about it. Yeah. Well, let me start kind of with my hunting history because he and I have a lot of parallelism here. And I grew up in Louisiana. So I grew up hunting the trees, South, yeah. Mississippi and Louisiana, hoping that you.

You'd see a deer. First year I hunted, I saw one dead. I got permission to hunt 100 acres just on the Louisiana, Mississippi line. I hunted all seasons, saw one dead. So this is quite a journey for me. In my wildest dreams, I never imagined. I was watching you on TV, but I never imagined

I'd be in a situation where I had the opportunity to do what we have here. You know, and I've hunted South Texas. I moved from Louisiana to Texas in I bounced around and decided South Texas is where I wanted to be. I hunted a lot of ranches in South Texas, a lot of ranches in Mexico, and kind of had a good baseline of where the best deer were being killed. And I worked from the ground up because I grew up in a real, you know, middle-class family

and started working as an engineer at Exxon and never thought I'd be in a position to do these kind of things. But fortunately my career went well for me. And so I had the opportunities as I built over time. I built over time to get to experience the hunting. And also, you know, to grow in terms of my opportunities. And we finally had a chance to buy this place. I got to the point where I had it down to just a handful of places that I'd be willing to buy based on their track record.

And this place became available, and we were able to buy it. You know, and it was a miracle that it all happened that way, but it did. Sometimes I guess things happened for a reason. And we were able to buy it. And I knew the family that owned it, and I always give credit to the people that owned this ranch because they did such a phenomenal guy. It was under intense management for 20 years.

And when I say intense management, I'm talking about 100% native indigenous deer. No deer ever brought in here, no deer ever put in the pen, no deer ever bred. This is just kind of what God put here and how we have managed those creatures. But they had a great track record. They were very private with it.

is the Leonard family. They did everything right. They did it the way you're supposed to do it, and they started with probably the best ground that there is in the world for growing big deer. This red dirt is super fertile, it's in a real hot spot of red dirt. You know, if it rains, it looks like springtime,

no matter what time of the year it is. It's just that productive. And, you know, through my buddy, Stuart Stedman, who has the Faith Ranch and some of the research he's done, what he was explaining to me is there's epigenetic effect. If a species is exposed to superior nutrition for generations and generations it flips some little genetic switches that allow the bodies to get bigger, which in turn allow the antlers to get bigger, bone structure to get bigger,

and that's really what we had going on here even before the Lenard's bottle. So in that it's a natural epigenetic evolution and if you look in this area the biggest deer in Texas are killed. right here arguably the biggest deer in the world I mean my neighbors killed a 307 native deer and a 275 okay so we knew we were kind of in the right place and out of the 30 years of dealing with deer and dealing with people and ranches we developed a philosophy of how we wanted to do it you know my experience was most of the really really big deer I'd killed have been seven or eight years old so we put

more age on the deer again based on some of the work that the Faith Ranch had done. We ran higher population. You know, my neighbor says it's cheaper to feed than it is to buy 20,000 acres. So we do purposely run a higher population. It means you've got to kill a lot of deer. But, you know, and we, and our goal is for the deer to be in optimum health, optimum physical condition. So we let them get old. We feed heavily, free choice feed, cotton seed, protein. We also have water distributed all of you know it's a very arid area and we had neighboring for three months now. It's real dry right now but we have water distributed all over the ranch so we make the life of these deer as is as

optimum as it can be and they're super healthy and they're big body, big antler but that's just the deer side of it you know as you said Michael the thing that makes ranch is special is the deer kind of facilitate people like us coming together because we have that love for it but bringing people together and having having us just a chance to get to know each other and laugh and have fun and do what we love that's what that's to me what really makes us better i agree yeah it's uh what what i've been surprised with here is you know we talk about shooting older deer letting the deer get that age on them for most places that i've seen like five is i mean that's an old deer that's old you know five that five that five that

five I saw three five and a half year olds this morning that were not even you're still giving them at least two more years and then you talk about killing bucks at eight or nine you know like a you have an eight and a half year old in there that we were watching a video of and it's like what if you you know turn let them go one more year what what could you do and most places I don't think have the resource to do that the deer numbers to do that where you still have because you have hunters coming in you still want to hunt yourself and so you have to have a enough bucks for hunters to kill, but then also enough to still let them go to eight or nine years old. Yeah. And yeah, so your philosophy on managing is, is pretty amazing, but it's,

there's so much that goes into it. It's, it's that dirt. It's the numbers. It's the feed. It's the, this habitat here. And then it's just having so many deer, you can still, like, tell me, tell me real quick, like this year, what have you killed as far as over 180? I think we'd kill 12. that score over 180. 12 over 1.8. Killed 5 that score over 190. Yeah, just this year. Just this year.

Right. Yeah. I don't know how many over 200. I don't know how many over 200 we've killed in the last seven or eight years, but it's way up in the teens. And it's really just a matter of letting them get old and creating the right environment for them. And, you know, we have so many that are up in that upper class. I can gamble with them.

Right. You know, I can let a 187-year-old go. That's the beauty of this situation. Most places couldn't. They couldn't. You got to kill it. That's the best deer they have. Yeah, you got to kill it.

And that's just like one of 30. Right. For us. So we can let some of them go. They're showing potential, and therefore we get that end of that bell curve. And some you take chances on and they go the other way. They go the other way, yeah. I mean, we got one in the pasture right now.

It's breaking my heart. I mean, he was at 200. I was seeing him as a 230 and he peaked out at 200 and now he's probably a 170. And I could have shot him opening a day and I'm like, I just can't do it. Yeah. You know, I tell people all the time I love my dear alive better and I love them dead. You know, if they'd live to be 20 years old, we'd have a pasture of 200s because I'd just leave them out there. Just to see them, you know.

I was lucky enough to shoot a giant typical last night. It just happened. You guys were here for it. That group we had out there. Talk about everybody who was out there, and then your dog man too. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, it was a deer that was eight years old,

that he ended up scoring 193s of way up in the, that book, deer. I mean, beautiful, perfect. Netted over 180. Yeah, netted over 180. I didn't want to shoot him. My team had to talk me into it because I had in my mind

in being a little bit different than that and so they finally twisted my arm and went and shot him. Bow hunting can be tough. I made a decent shot, but not enough to drop him. So we got the guys with the dogs to come. My good friend Roy Hines and John Schulte, his son-in-law, I've been dealing with Roy. There's probably a deer or two in this room that I shot hunting with Roy on his place.

In my journey of hunting, once upon a time, he had probably the best place in the country. And now he talked that this is the best place. place. I think I heard him say last night, you're at the very best place you could be. Yeah. And he said, yeah, people can certainly make that argument. I won't say that. It's a little buzzful on my part, but we do pretty well. And Roy's a quality guy. I've spent many nights at his house. I've hunted with him. I've shot culls on his place. He and his family and great

people. And, you know, when we're bow hunting, occasionally, you don't get exactly through the lungs of the heart and they run off and having those guys that can come with those dogs they have been breeding for like 40 years these dogs that you saw it last night yeah man it's amazing how that dog stayed on that trail and we found that deer but that's just the kind of people that we run into down here there's some great people that grew up in south Texas this is their heritage they love to do it and we love to be connected with them yeah that was that was fun to watch I haven't been around you know dogs like that very often a couple times now but uh yeah it's always amazing to see them do what they do um thankful me i love i hate to call them but i love when they show up because i know it's usually a good

right well a lot of people don't realize that guy's roy is a legend he is he is a true legend probably the most famous blood trailing dog oh yeah dog guy right yeah probably in the country yeah yeah it with good reason yeah for sure now his dad was like one of the godfathers of the white Hill Manage in Texas. Yeah, so it's been in his family a long time, and it still is. He's an iconic person down here, and it's just a, it's a real pleasure to be connected with him. Yeah, he was so nice, too, as he said.

Oh, he's a great guy. His wife, Pam, both his daughter and his son. I know him well, good people. Let's get, so Brian, I know you've hunted down South Texas a lot, but just explains it, because people will see these videos. and they'll be like, that's just shooting fish in a barrel kind of. And it's, I think people get the misconception a little bit

because there are a lot of deer there, not the shooters per se, because now you've sat, how many times have you sat? Three, four now. Four times. And it isn't shooting fish in a barrel because if you're trying to wait for that, for example, the buck you were hunting

had never daylighted, and you'd been hunting them hard. I'm talking to Jerry now at this time. And he had never daylighted the whole time. So it doesn't matter how many deer are coming in if the one year after isn't coming in or does it not coming in the daylight. That's the challenge of it,

is waiting for that one. Oh, yeah, yeah. So we have hunters come in. We have a long list of deer that are mature. And when hunters come in, we know which deer are showing up. So it seems like it's real easy. But if you pick one deer

and you're trying to figure that deer, out. It could be really challenging. I mean, a number of deer that we've killed, and Michael and I hunt hard. It takes three months to kill that one deer. He saw it. Michael, my son. Michael, you're saying that.

Oh, that massive thing. Yeah. We hunted it every opportunity last year, and I think we killed it like a day before New Year's. Wow. Yeah. So it's one thing to come here and, you know, shoot a 170, 180. It's just happening to show up out of the pool.

But when you have a specific one that you're hunting, it's like a needle in a haystack proposition. Some of them are easy, some of them are hard. So that's a different dimension. You know, Cam, the way you hunt with us, you're kind of one of the members, and therefore you get an opportunity to, we have a draft, we identify shooters, the members get a chance to pick in that draft, and then it's a one-on-one game. And that's something that we started based on my experience of running hunting. camping camps so we don't have the competition.

It's no cutthroat thing. It becomes just like a one-on-one thing between an animal and a hunter. And the deer you picked, there was nobody else gonna hunt. Yeah, because we've been, we've all been around enough to know how honey camps work. A lot of times guys will come back.

They don't wanna say what they saw. Exactly. Then the other guys are like, I'm in some shit area. I wanna go where he's going. You know what I mean? So, but here everybody's, this is what I saw, here's the video of it,

here's this, that didn't see your buck if you have, you know, if it's a member who has a buck selected. But even aside from that, so Brian, you're just looking for, and Michael, you know, a seven-year-old buck, and Michael you saw him, Brian, you haven't yet. So it's not, it's still not guaranteed. I mean, this is low fence hunt.

It's free range, so it's. And this is like the best time. Because they're really starting to move. You know, the rut's going to start here in about a week. Yeah. So the bucks that have been very reclusive, like the one this morning this morning

shoot man we had seen him all year jeez right you know so he's just come out in the last few days oh the one michael saw yeah the one the one we called banging on the feeder I was when that sucker got by me I should have shot

I was like shell shocked I was shell shocked I was like I mean literally I thought I'd played the Super Bowl a few times you know when it comes to hunting and I was like man what to do there's deer everywhere I was, yeah, I kept thinking, man, it was like, this, this don't seem real.

And I know for a lot of even listeners here, you know, because you go, well, we're from Louisiana, me, Georgia, and I think about all the people who could be listening to Pennsylvania and Michigan, really all across the country. And then, of course, you get to those traditional Midwestern states, you know, the Iowa, the Kansas, and even all over Texas. Yeah, what we're talking about. And maybe, you know, like you pick out maybe a couple characters like a Don and Candy, Kiski, Lee and Tiffany Lakoski, when you're throwing around 17,

180s and 200-inch deer, that doesn't freak them out. That's not like a dream world of them because they live in it. They also know that those deer are unicorns, but when a lot of people here, we throw the terms out of these big house-scoring deer, you know, if you go up in Georgia, like you, Louisiana, even, you're like, man, that's unreal. And to be honest, we do, it still is unbelievable and special.

And that's why it's like, that's what I said, I felt like I was in heaven, Because this is real native Texas deer that are here. And like last night, we saw, put our hands on a 193 that Jerry had killed. The deer that I was hunting was 160 to 70 inch deer and I was looking at them and knowing their deer that are the age demographic of what's on the list to shoot.

And for that to happen and to grow up hunting and bow hunting is mind boggling. So for anybody listening to think, man, what are these guys talking? talking about I'm still taking it in yeah I mean I'm still I think I think I suppose Brian said I'm still I grew up and I hate to say professional because I don't consider myself a professional but I've been around this hunting culture like early on I was thinking I'm either gonna be a hobo go broke or I'm gonna work in

this hunting industry as a guide as a stand hanger dog handler camera man whatever I got to do because I just knew I love being around hunting everything from elk deer hogs squirrels I mean it don't matter you've been around. I've seen a lot of white till places and this, you know, been all over Kansas, all over Iowa, all over Saskatchewan and Alberta all the way up through there. And to see what I saw even this morning was like, just when I thought I'd seen a lot of good spots, this blew my mind. I mean, I'm like, this is crazy. It almost felt like, I told the camera, I got back, I felt like a selfish little punk. I'm sitting there like, okay, I'm pretty sure that's one of the ones I could

shoot. Is there any other close? You know, I just felt like this punk kid. Yeah. And I don't know, man, it was surreal. So, yeah, for people listening who think this is unfathomable or maybe we're spoiled for hunting here, I would say we are. It is a very blessed, full thing. It's almost like, you know, you think about the money you invest. I told Coe and our producer, I said, man, you know,

anytime you go on a cool place, a hunt, or adventure, or vacation, there's money to be invested. You got to put money down. You got to do something. I said, I bet you I spent 20 grand. and Disney World taking my youngans down there and stood in lines out the wazoo to look at Mickey Mouse.

I don't know, next time I'm going to talk my youngins and like, hey, for vacation, we're going to Cactus Jack. There's Mickey Mouse. This is a real magic kingdom. We do have a lot of kids that come here. Where they're, you know, families, and we love it. You don't have to stand in line. You can go right in there and get you

some eggs and bacon. Sausage is great. You've got a bacon drawer. Yeah, we have a bacon drawer. That's right. This is better than a trick. What's in this drawer. All of us all the country, folks, we got to save up and take the family to go from Mexico down to Patamar City Beach and stand in line to eat some fried fish and Captain Anderson's. I'm like, man, let's just save up a little more. Let's just go to Cactus Jack because this is the real deal.

It's crazy. Well, you know, you make a good point though, Michael. You and I grew up hunting hard. Yeah. And, you know, and the whole time I hunted Louisiana, the best deer I killed was a 152. Yeah, which is a good buck. That was a hellacious trophy. Yeah.

Right. It still may be the best trophy I have. I completely understand. Because, you know, people talk about trophy hunting. There's all kinds of, being in camp is like the biggest value. Being outdoors and enjoying all the nature and seeing what happens out there is great value. You know, shooting animals of any size is really an experience. And then those of us who've got a lot of time with it, you know, we like to shoot the big ones.

Correct. But it's different for everybody and trophies are all relative to where you are. Correct. You can't kill what's not there. Yep. And just do the best you can to manage the property you have or to be conservation-minded when you're out hunting public land and take what you can get and embrace it and love it.

And I've always, too, thought when you think about that, and you think about, say, a trophy hunter, somebody who does enjoy the fact that they can put a tape on a deer, maybe he's 180, maybe he's 193 like the budget shot last night. Those deer would never exist without an investment and time. and energy and financial resources and the desire to want that type of end goal or trophy. So without that, this deer probably wouldn't exist at this level. Right.

So even though it is to a degree unfathomable, it shows it strategically it can be done. It can be done. But it takes, like you're talking about that red dirt, the fertile soil, and it seems like that is the case. That's the one thing hearing you talk at dinner last night about this red soil. it's the one thing I do I see in common like when you go to say Illinois and you hear about there was a at one time I guess supposedly like a glacier

or something or melt and it's supposed to put so much nitrogen in the soil and that's where they're getting so many bushels of corn so the soil then you go to Kansas same thing you hear a story about the soil and the protein it starts with their spills Iowa so on and so forth then you get out to certain areas in Arizona with those giant bulls it's the soil So I do think the biggest common denominator is certainly management, certainly supplemental feeding,

but there's something. If you ain't got that base of that soul, I don't know that you can never get to these unicorn-type deer. Can you have a good herd? Yeah, but I don't know that. It takes a perfect place. Managed quite a few of them myself all across the golden triangle, and trust me, it's not all created equal. I believe that. I think that's the same in every state.

Yeah. I mean, you know. I think that was, oh, go ahead, Brian. I was just going to add that to your point earlier, in addition to all of that, I think down here one thing that people get confused about when they see you have a ton of deer in front of you,

the fact that that part is management, you know, and that they have, they're letting all those deer go for so long that the deer, the younger deer, do let you look at it. They are a little more forgiving than your average animal, and you know, you're going to see a lot again

because down in the Golden Triangle, where we are, the ranches are large, they're managed for age structure, And so those animals are getting to live a long life without being bothered very much. There's not a lot of pressure. But as we've seen, those older, it reminds me of black bear hunting because, you know, it's not a problem sometimes to see bears. But to see in bow range, the one you want is a whole different ballgame.

Right. And people get complacent. They just think, oh, well, they're, you know, they're very relaxed and borderline tame sometimes. But that is not the case with the older. class yeah not the ones we're after right yeah it's a it's true i i do want to say too that what i remember the most about last night yes you killed a once-in-lifetime buck for most people but i just remember just the mood and the the the brotherhood out there the fellowship i guess you can say and so we're out there in the middle of the field in the middle of the night i don't know

what time it was 10 something and uh got the buck killed and everybody just smiling and laughing and just feel I just remember the feeling of how blessed we are. Oh, I'm glad you actually stopped us and made us think about that, you know, just for me. You know, when I shoot a deer and I can't go find him immediately within 100 yards, I get anxious. Right. Okay. Because I have very high standards for myself and recovering deer and so forth. And I get anxious.

But having you guys there and the conversations we were having, and we were having, and we, We were laughing. I mean, it just, it like took my blood pressure way down. It made it a really great experience. And, you know, we talked a lot about the soil. We talked a lot about kind of my management philosophy here, but I'd be very remiss if I didn't talk about the people that make it happen. So, you know, our team here is fantastic.

And, you know, I have the best ranch manager in the world. Jake Goldbrun is as good as it gets, man. And he has super high standards for execution of what we do. we start our feeding program and there's not a single feeder it was without feed for one day from the time we start till the time we stop

and just that almost perfection we can explain to people what we do but getting people actually being able to execute it and then Tim and Robin you know you hunt a Tim he's your guy Tim's been my personal hunting partner for 25 years

wow that's cool and so he Tim is super smart he understands deer very well jerry the kogi has got him you brian i mean jerry and i started hunting together back in 1988 so the people the people that are here we've been a team for a long time and you know their goal is for everybody that comes here to get treated with respect and have a great time and to me it's kind of that whole package and i always i tell them look our vision is to have the best white tail white tail hunting in the world but when people leave safe they say yes

the best honey I've ever seen that that wasn't even the best part right okay so it's really trying to bring it together so hats off to my team I couldn't do this without them yeah absolutely yeah everything about this is because you I've been to plenty of places where you're like you go with yeah the hunting's great but you know you're whatever staying in a shack which I don't care about or dealing with certain guides or whatever it's like there's always something but here it's like there's I don't know I don't know how this could be anything about perfect how you've had it set how you have it set up and the hunting is best in the world but the people and like that that moment last night it's just to me that's what

i think gets missed by people who don't hunt who don't understand this lifestyle is they miss that the fellowship part of what last night and why that night was so special oh well i'll remember forever aside from the buck didn't kill because i was looking at the videos and we got some pictures from last night. And it's just like, it's hard not to just go back and just be like, I don't know why I'm here if I deserve to be here, but I'm thankful I am. You know the crazy thing when Roy and John left last night,

they stopped me and they said, I just want to tell you, man, that group of guys you have there is awesome. So that was so much fun coming here and being with you guys and just the spirit, you know, the positivity and the happiness and the way you guys were all interacting. He's like, man, it was just like nothing coming over here. Nothing like it coming over here and being with people like that. So he was, you know, he'd never met either one of y'all, or all, any three of y'all.

And, man, he was just so complimentary of how everybody was carrying themselves and behaving. Imagine how most of the time when he's going, people are probably pretty anxious. You know, they're in an anxious position of worried about finding something. But I think that after hearing about the shot and everything, I think everybody, felt good and confidence. Yeah, that... We're gonna get them. Yeah, it was a good spirit last night.

There's a fine line when you get to the level of, you know, where we all are at to where you're looking for mature animals, you know, and it can almost come across to some people as snobby. Like, oh, man, oh, they're talking about 180s like they're just walking around everywhere. Well, everybody knows 180s just don't walk around everywhere. Obviously, you do the right things and you've got the right places across the country. The potential of that is there. But I will say in your pursuit for high-scoring animals,

whereas to put them in a safari club or Boone and Crockett or Pocke and Young, if you're missing that element, what you talked about, Cameron, last night, none of it's worth it. Because I do know, I do know, some people that have killed giant deer animals all across the world, and they're sitting in a lonely, dusty, you know, trophy room smoking a Cuban cigar by themselves. They have made no friends, and they've got a lot of deer in the Boone of Crocket, you know, and stuff, but they have not made any friends.

And so as soon as anything, even though we can brag about the white tails and brag about the resources, if you're not making friends and your trophies ain't the friends and looking back. And Cameron, it's a little crazy goofball, throws the deer over his shoulder. And, dude, he's like, I can tow him out. And dude, I'm like, man, I've been wanting to see this. So, man, we loaded a 190-pound buck. Yeah, a hundred-nine buck on his shoulder. And dude, he smelled like a skunk last night.

I was like, man, we did riding the same truck. And I was like, thank God, man. That's glad I ain't riding. We was riding together. I was like, man. And Cameron towed that deer out. And we were high-fiving and, you know, got him, what, two or three hundred, three hundred yards closer.

Then we could get to the truck. But just all of them. That was impressive. If you, but if you ain't got dope, that part of it. Yeah. And that coming back, we ate a dang ribby steak. That I felt as guilty eating that sucker. But you know what?

I got over it. because I went to sleep and I ate that sucker. I don't know, man. You're right. It's like, but when you can combine both. Yeah. Because I'm like Cameron, as I've gotten older, if I can go to a good camp and I can go with a couple five squirrel dogs

and if I got good folks in campfire and, you know, and a good swig of whiskey around, a campfire and stories and talking about our families and our youngans and what we've done. And I know it's. sounds crazy but it's it's it's so unbelievable special and I think it does come with maturity and age we've all got to that point I mean Brian and I had met but you know he was hugging like with brothers you know just talking about things that we've seen in life and you know it's like immediately and so I don't know and I do think you know

as we talk about the trophies that is one thing I think I don't know if it's a hunting industry thing or a quest quest for trophies if you miss that other part of it it really is a waste of money and a very big it's a waste of your life it's a waste of your life compared to what's possible there's going to be a hole there there's going to be something missing

you're going to have that as you mentioned you're going to have that animal but I don't know that's why I say I don't know if people realize how special it is I don't think some people do I don't think many of these hunters do because I think it gets so competitive

and I see it in the hunting industry and Cameron might see this. You know, Cameron and I can show up, say, at the Archery Trade Association, or maybe the shot show, and we can walk around and talk about where we want to go get us a dinner or whatever it is, you know. And then we'll see, I feel like at times there,

and I've definitely seen it with he and I with other people. It's like it's a sword fight or something like, bro, man, we're just here working. We want to, you know, how's your kids? How's your wife? Like, you know, and they show it, like, well, I killed this, this. like, and I don't care, but I sure do wish we could go have a good time. Y'all will go roll some dice tonight and have a good time and a high five. And so it's almost like you think it's a

misconception without the friendships and without the understanding like first time meeting Jerry, I know how passionate he is of a trophy hunter from Elk to Deer. But unless I can respect Jerry and know him for the man he is, I can't be proud of him if he kills a 193. And in reality, did it change my view of Jerry because he killed the 193? Not at all. I'd already, just from a brief conversation, you know he's a good dude. And knowing that that's his goal, I can love the fact that he accomplished his goal. Don't change my perspective of what I think of him, vice versa.

You know, me and you don't have to text each other like, hey, just killed this or that. We already got a lot of respect. But if I know your goal was to say, I want to kill a 400-inch bull, is it going to change the way your wife looks at you? Is it going to change the way your young and looks at you? Not at all. It depends on how to have supported that. But, you know, at the end of the day, but if they love you and respect you, they're happy for you because they know it meant something to you. Right.

No different than you finish in the marathon. You don't, you ain't got to race another marathon for somebody to look at cameras and say, man, he's accomplished. But when I see it now, Ben, I've known a long time, like, that Joker, no one who told it that book out, he's still, he's still driving to finish this marathon in the top ten. And he don't need to do that, and I'm proud and I respect it. But a lot of people think that, okay, if I kill a 200-inch deer, everybody's going to love me. That ain't going to make nobody to love you. More people going to hate you than love you.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But I don't know. I just think it's. First time I met him, I asked him, I said, do you think you run, huh? He goes, yeah. I said, what's the longest race you ever ran? He said, 250 miles. I said, how long have you taken him face?

I'm like 70-something, 80 hours? Did you sleep? No, I only slept an hour because you can't win if you sleep. Like, my God. He is an animal wife. Yeah, he is definitely an animal. I tell the story. I tell the story about Cammer. I love a story because we met long, long time ago.

We talked about it on one of the Keep Hammering Collective Firecats. We were talking about it. And it's crazy because at the time he and I knew the one knew, we knew in the hunting industry. He was riding. I was helping guy of turkey hunters. And I just started a little doing, dabbing around with that real tree roach. TV show and um we were just talking like man this is awesome and then so throughout our career everyone we'd run each other at industry shows and stuff and keeping contact a little bit but in

reality we kind of fell out of touch outside of some mutual friends and so when we finally hooked back up though we'd see each other at different shows he shot hoit bows his whole career I have to and so I remember camera we showed up and I was so exhausted we started bomb-plector and Cameron he said hey man he's like he's like we're thinking about getting a bunch of it's gonna go run in the morning. It's like Indianapolis. It's like 10 degrees outside. And I'm sitting here, I'm hunting down a nutty bar like a little debby case, you know.

I said, no, Cameron. I am not getting up and run. And dude, these suckers get up and run off. I'm like, man, this dude is an animal. They get back about three in the afternoon. But that's the engine. That's the engine. I was thinking, man, I ain't got no young ones to take to school.

I'm going to sleep legs. Eat a big old continental breakfast or something somewhere. But anyway, I just have. love the fact of everything this happened and I think it was kind of cool to cap it off to be here to like you know like you ain't gonna believe this place what it I know you've seen some cool places but it was exactly right and so it's I don't know it's been fun well the coolest thing you know this is unexpected for me you know I bought the place thinking my friends would come and we have a lot of friends and

that hunt I've known for a long time and you know we're like family you can adopt me and you can't We've really taken that next step in our relationship. You know, but the fact that this place is facilitated getting to meet a lot of new people, Levi. Yeah. Okay. Oh, I need to shout out to Levi,

because he's why I came here originally. So Levi Morgan, thank you. And the reason Levi came here is Keith Kelly. And the reason Keith Kelly came here is Hank Parker. I got you. And the reason Hank Parker came here is Jake's dad, hunted with Hank Parker. So this whole spider web, this network of getting to know people that otherwise I would never have had a chance to meet.

And look, for me, it's not because you guys are like the top of your field. It's not your name. It's who you are and how you got there that is fascinating to me because the people that achieve excellence in whatever field they are, they have really special characteristics. And I love being around people like that. And especially, you know, happy people that are very successful, that share what we do, it is like the biggest joy for me, having folks like you in the camp, not because you got a gazillion Instagram followers or you had a TV show.

It's who you are and the experiences that you bring here that really make it awesome for us. Thank you, man. Yeah, thank you. That is true. But without the ranch, we'd never have a chance to meet. Well, it wouldn't have that common threat. Yeah, we wouldn't have that common threat that brings it all together. Yeah, that's true.

I want to mention, too, it's like we're in a place now because we've all been through so much where we can't appreciate other people's success. I think where I wish I could go back in time would be like when I was a young man, and it's like everybody was competition. If somebody else killed something, that was taking something away from me. One less that you could get. Right. And so I had the hardest time where, and I'll just be honest one time, I remember I did see you as competition, you know, because you were the biggest name in hunting.

And I remember, I think I were, I was doing something with Under Armour, and maybe you were to, this is like way, way back. And I remember you called and he said something like, you know, hey, these bass fishermen, you know, they tell each other what their deals are so they can work together and get better deals. And I remember thinking, I'm not telling him what, what are you talking about? I'm going, I'm trying to beat you. We just didn't know what the goalpost were. We didn't know what the game was really. But I just remember, so if I could go back at that time, because I think that we, or for me, I can't speak for you, but we weren't as close maybe as we could have been because it was always like,

I have to win. I agree. I mean, I was the same way. I was the same way. It's like you know people are good people and I always knew that. And I just, I was the same way,

very competitive. Like I can use Lee and Tiffany Likoski. You know, love them to death, but in my mind, I'm like, all right, got to go kill the 180. Watch what I'll do. I'll outrate you with a damn squirrel show.

I'm just going to come up with a few more jokes. You know, it's like, you know, and so it was that. But I do think, And it's kind of hard to beat Lee in the deer world. It is. I mean, honestly, you know, looking way back, me and Cameron were single fellas. We might have a chance, but all we had was spikes in Oregon and me in Georgia.

So no way we could have landed Tiffany, you know, so. But at the end of the day, man, I do think, you know, as I'm speaking with Cameron, dude, I have told everybody, and it started as funny, I was sitting around and I'd always considered, you know, Cameron a friend. But you're right. It's like we was in the same industry. Always high-five and see each other and always a joke or two. You know, I was a niece laughing old redneck, you know,

and Cameron was a fitness guy. And I remember one time he'd be working a bass pro, and I don't know if I'd be doing push-ups in the backroom. I'm about doing 15. I'm like, I should have done it, and I'm about to choke myself over here. And I high-five with Cameron. We'd always respectful, but I was literally, I had been around some squirrel hunting, and I'd gotten into some squirrel dogs.

And so I tell everybody as I gotten older, I love the, like trap, love trapping coyotes and love squirrel hunting my little old dogs with my youngies. And anyway, I was somewhere in, somebody, I mean, somebody unlike that I thought would mention. He said, man, ain't you friends with Cameron Haines? That guy's a, seem like a good dude. And it hit me. And immediately I said, man, Cameron is a good dude.

And it hit me. And I, so quickly, then I was even embarrassed at that time. I was like, I was trying to find Cameron's number in my phone. And I had an old, old number. And I realized he probably had a, like, we hadn't even traded numbers. So I called around and I texted Cameron that story. He said, come out and do our podcast. And so I tell everybody that was a really cool moment to go out to Oregon.

Because I think that's for me. I'm like, what the hell, dude? We're like, Rose. He's Oregon. I'm Georgia. But it's the same. We're the same thing, same paths, same things. And so anyway, yeah.

But you're exactly right to the same thing. It's almost like it was a view of a competition, friendly competition. And we were even on some of the same things. teams. Yeah, yeah. And so it's just, but that's the drive. How do you win a marathon if you don't want to run over that guy in front of you? That's, I don't know, and I don't know how I, if I change it, but I just wish that the younger

guys coming up could be a little more, just have a little more grace, maybe with people who are doing the, trying to chase that same dream and just be like, you know, you can still win, and I can still win, you know, because I didn't look at it like that. So I'm just, all I'm bringing that up is I think we lost a lot of years of, who knows, I mean, yeah, we'll make up for it now, but... 100% we will. But what could have been type thing? It's like, I just don't want other young guys to miss out on some brotherhood for years

because too competitive. And I say too competitive that, because being competitive is a great trait. Right trait, absolutely. I mean, it's the reason why we're here. Correct. You have to, you have to want to win at life, right? You got to. And that's, I mean, that's a call out to kind of to Brian's new book.

but yeah I just and I don't even really need to or know how to put it into words what I want to say but yeah it's just not all life or death struggle I completely against other men but time time gives you a different perspective it does yeah you got to mature I could tell the same story you're telling it's competitive in a different way yeah as you get as you get older you get a different view of it yeah that's the thing being successful actually puts you in a position it yeah yeah yeah It says security. And so it makes having that view a little easier when you're on the top than when you're on the bottom. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. I think it's easy for you to say. It's easy for you to say. It's age and success puts you in a better position to appreciate that. And an amount of failure too. It's funny. I tell people all the time, it's like, you know, it's easy to look at somebody's success, but people's failures, or at least mine, have taught me more than even success.

Because, like you said, it could be something minuscule. And like I've learned, too, is like it's good. Cameron and I were talking about how we were kind of on the same team and probably didn't do as much together as we could have and should have when we were a little younger. Now, obviously, we're making up for some of that lost time. But, two, if you look about our true job is not even to kill deer. It really is to tell the story of what the hunting culture is all about. But then if you look at all the lanes where I grew up in the South and, you know, I loved a turkey hunt. That's one thing, you know, got in common with a Jake is an Alabama boy.

you know out west a lot of people are not die hard so but with that you create these lanes and so through those lanes you know camera going out west me and the south another thing that's crazy is camera talked about some of the different brands or even maybe some whether it's YouTube or podcast what you can do is so easy to reintroduce people to different audiences and for for a fan base that Cameron has that maybe is a certain demographic still common denominator of buying a hunt license, buying a Hoyt, he can introduce me to them. And they realize like, man, why old guys, he seemed like it would be fun to be around? Vice versa, small hard-hitting rednecks in Georgia.

It's okay. Sit around drinking the Budweiser who, you know, grew up hunting and fishing. They're like, man, that Cameron's a good dude, man. He, you know, and next thing you got old Uncle Scott Steiner kind of put a beer around his neck and walk him out and we're picking on him and laughing. So that's the thing that I think, too, is like, okay, when you get to that place, you get to that place, you missed the opportunity to grow the messaging. Yeah. And now you look at someone like Cameron, who's real good friends with Joe, of getting on

those podcasts and talk about Ronella. You look at the opportunities we have and the different people we've had a chance to be around and talk about. And so it's not even self-righteous that we can even drop names. It's the fact that it's pretty cool that where we come from, we can be in these rooms around these people to talk about things that's been life-changing for us. but they're also life-changing for anybody that takes in it. Nobody who steps into a place

where there's Cactus Jack or a Mead lease in Georgia or Louisiana, this, you know, 400 acres and 10 members. You go sitting around and around a camper and eat chili. Maybe it is drank a cold beer. You get talking, telling jokes. And you don't even think about hunting. You're like, man, this is what I've been missing in life. And I think Cameron and I have had a chance to see it

from a perspective, too, of some of these celebrities that grew up in Hollywood that have chased really, there's things that glitter and gold and fame and fortune only to realize really the best thing they found was what we had a chance to introduce them to, which was, you know, white-tailed boat deer, you know, a goblin turkey. And that, that is amazing, like blows my mind, actually. And so that, that's pretty cool. And so now, I think, with maturity, we realize that, and that's a, well, to be honest, it's a hell of responsibility, I think. Yeah, but I mean, you guys, I think are taking that responsibility because you're very authentic. I think that's why people like to listen to you.

You know, you tell it the way you see it. You may not have it right, but that's, do you speak your mind? And, you know, people respect that. Yeah. You know, some people don't because they don't because they don't want to hear anybody else's opinion. But those that have a brain and think about things, they value people who are authentic. And, you know, that's one thing that both of you guys bring that I love about you is the authenticity. You're not, you know, it may be more politically exceeding it for you not to say some of the things that you say but that's not who you are and that's not what you believe right and you know I just I got a lot of personal time for that authentic people are the people you want to be around well

I mean like I said that what's that old saying sometimes the most offensive thing that you can hear is the truth and you know my best friends and the people who love me the most sometimes I'll say you know what hell this this and this you know or like you know and I'm like in first I'd be like you know then I think well Lord they are right you know if it's a buddy you know it's like you know have a casual drinking all of a sudden it's like dude hey buddy I enjoy you but every time I'm around you you you ain't just drinking you drunk and man I'm talking about you want to step on the buddy's toes you tell them something like that or vice versa it can be somebody that you know as we're talking about these

giant deer like bro you have forgotten when we come from Georgia there's nothing wrong 140 inch mature buck is still a big deer poking yon's 125 it's an accomplishment it's okay to remind like that's still a good buck Jerry or hey you know Hank Parker that's still a giant buck like you know what it is yeah it is a good book you know we got better but that's still a I mean I saw I'm not exaggerating of course y'all know because y'all I saw 15 different bucks this morning and that sounds like a live but I got them all on video that would have been life changing bucks for many of my friends enjoyed it yeah regardless of their age I'm talking about what People would be talking about it.

You see that buck that... Bro, they would still be riding them around. They would be somewhere over by mineral wells. By now, some sporting this store of Waffle House showing them all. Guaranteed. Yeah, I know. It's amazing.

It's, yeah. With a loudspeaker. They'd have one in them bullhorn. Everybody. Didn't you? Just trying to show you my book, ladies and gentlemen, specifically ladies, if y'all want to come gather around, This is an eight-point book, approximately four years of age.

I think he's going to get into the Pocke and Young record books. I would it be like, right, Brian? Yeah, no, it's one thing that I do think that, you know, we talked about sharing our love of the sport. And one thing, I know I've mentioned on my podcast, but I think it's becoming more evident now. It's how lucky we are to be grown up and be part of this lifestyle, because you see people, that have chased other things, the money, the houses, the cars, the women type thing. And they're kind of now society is shifting a little bit and now they're looking at us going, I don't know shit about hunting, but that looks amazing.

I don't know anything about what these guys are doing. Yeah. But there's something inside, I think, all humans, because that's how we survive as being hunters. But they see this lifestyle and they just feel like they're missing something because it is. So you mentioned Authentic, which I kind of. hate that word because it's just like that means like there's something other like being fake apparently yeah yeah the definition about being yeah a lot of being authentic a lot of fake being authentic shouldn't be really celebrated but it is just because because because there's so many fake people than that but yeah but

they see this lifestyle and they see that how authentic it is and they see the the true joy or happiness or fellowship as I mentioned a few times now but um and they realize that there's something special about what these guys are doing. And it's been, this way life has been around forever, but there's a certain segment of society, even more nowadays, that doesn't know anything about it, that's missed out on it. So it just makes you feel how lucky we are to be hunters.

Oh, I know. And to have this. And I mean. And to be passionate about something. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've got a lot of colleagues, okay. I'm about to retire. I should have retired a few years ago,

but I'm going to work longer. But they have retired. And they don't have a passion. passion and they just sit around you know watching TV looking at their bank statements like I get messages yeah you know get a life and some of them some of the authentic ones have come to me and say man I'm really jealous of you now I thought you were crazy for so many years doing this but I'm jealous because you have these things that you love yeah most people I see they're like they don't know what

their passion is or they don't know what they like how did you know that you wanted to be a bow hunter and I'm just like I have you You know, just, well, what we do. This is like, in a small town where I was from, whoever killed a big buck, you're like, you're like, guys are a badass. That's exactly right. Yeah, guys, like, if you killed a big buck,

you were, it didn't matter if you had a fucking good job. You see him at dark, you have a, yeah, you know, struck a guy of buck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about your buck. Yeah, and it's like, so that, when you grow up revering things like death, and that's our path that we choose to go down,

it's hard to think back why this is our passion but with people who have had that in their life they feel this whole and so I don't know I love bridging that gap and I know you've taken Theo Vaughn

and Caleb can't remember his last name but you take new hunters a lot I love taking new hunters same thing because I just have so much love for this what we do you want other people to get it to and some you take them out there they don't get it

and they might never hunt it. They're not wired that way. No, but some will be like, like Rogan, for example. He just took to it. Oh, he's just ate up with it. You know, he's, you know, text me every day about archery gear, different hunts and sending videos. And it's like, so there's guys like that that it's just like,

this is what I was missing my whole life. So, I don't know. I feel pretty like about that. Do you have any thoughts on that, Brian? Well, I wrote about that in my book. And I think it's because you have, you have thousands of years

where people did it as a means of survival and I think that's why we smile in our hunting pictures and stuff because you know now you're going to feed your family

you're going to live another day your tribe is going to live another day and so for millenniums for that to be kind of ground into your DNA it's absolutely going to be part of who we are but now with stores

and convenience and all that you've got this growing segment of society that is separated from that and that celebration of, you know, of life continuing. And how can we expect those people to understand it if they haven't been connected to it? And how many times have you taken a new hunter out and you have that, some of them aren't going to get it? But then there's others where it's like, boom, they just are like, this is what us, this is something I'm supposed to be doing.

You know, this is. That's true. And it is a connection that I think goes way back in time because it happened for so long and it was so core. to our ability to survive that, how could it not be? 100% as a matter of fact, the more you connect to nature, it kind of helps you understand a lot about human nature and how there is some very unique differences between say nature and human nature.

And there's a lot of things that we think of, but it's not necessarily nature driven. And so I've always seen that the more you're grounded with understanding just the way deer move, what they do, how they breed, how they feed, you know, whether it's nocturnal, vice versa, turkeys, deer, elk, and even know into the fisheries and flocks. When you start, which first of all, you never master it

because there's so much, there's so much simplicity, but it's so insanely complicated. And it almost, you know, for me, you know, even from a religious standpoint, it's like, you know, you sit back and you think, and it's like, man, I'm reminded even through a good bit of hail raising in my life. I'm like, man, there's a God. I, the reason is because I'm just, I woke up at daylight at Cactus Jack. There's no, there's no way, you know, I was, I was standing on a mountain in Utah,

an elk season, and I'm like, here in Elk bugle, and then all of a sudden as I'm standing there and start sleeting snow, and I was just hot because I walked in there, and it was warm, I'm like, okay, there's a good Lord, because, you know, be still and be quiet, and I'm like, you know, and so I don't know, I think it's the biggest blessing. And like I said, you know, I take pride in it, but I'm always careful on the pride because most of time my pride is usually what's got me in trouble.

But yeah, it's a blessing to gnaw it and see it. And when you get a chance to introduce, always cut up when you get into the city slickers that bridge the gap. Not necessarily just killing an animal. Right. But all of a sudden, there's somewhere in the blind and it's almost like, oh my God, I just see it.

We're going back and we're going to eat chili around on campfire. Yeah. Somebody told me there's ham in the chili. They got a cooler of cold Natty lights. And somebody said they got some cigars, and they're going to be telling stories. Cameron's coming tonight.

And they said, Jerry and I just got a text. Jerry got one shot. And it's on us like, let's go, baby. It's a party. It's such a simple, authentic, I mean, innocent. Yeah, everything you just mentioned, how basic is that? Basic.

Chilling with ham, maybe cold beer. This is like who, everybody has access to that, but it's because it's this setting is what makes it special. Yeah. You know, it's, uh, yeah. The last thing you want to be after you think of that and you experience that is the thought of being at a rave. Yeah.

He's like, ha ha, hey, what are we doing? The best things in life are not things. Yeah, that's right. You're right. You're right. It doesn't matter what you have. If you don't have people to share it with, you don't have anything. That's really, that's the craziest conversation I had.

And his camera was talking about people we've met and hunted with, him getting Joe Rogan into just a passionate Elk Hunter, like passionate El Cunter. Blake Shelton, who did grow up country and hunting, country singer, but moved to L.A. made really pretty much his money out there in L.A. out there in Hollywood. Well, now he's retired and getting back into it. And so from that, he's made a lot of friends. And I remember Gwen, his wife, had some writers in from L.A. One from overseas, I think it was. Or maybe she was in overseas, live in L.A.

But anyway, they come in the ranch to write for the four days, four or five days while we were hunting. So we were standing in a little camp in Oklahoma, and Gwen had her artistic friends over there working on her two new singles. And so, which I thought was cool because I was dying to go over there and hear what they was working on, because it's Gwen Stefani. It's like awesome star.

For us, it's like magic stuff. Yes, it's magic. So I was dying. And then it'd come to find out, all of a sudden, two of those guys, one was a songwriter, had just been working with, from everybody from Cardi B to Adam Levine and Maroon 5, and I love music, so I'm intrigued by that.

So those guys, and another was the guitar player from Machine Gun Kelly, and he's a writer and like it does all this producing stuff. So they were dying to get over to our side over there to see what Blake had going on in the hunting side because they're from LA never participated in hunting but just wanted to see it was about. So by the time they pulled up, I had just fried up some cubed deer steak.

We'd got the backstrap and I'd cued it out and fried this old country fried cube steak. Nick Munt was there, whipped up a big old thing of mashed potatoes and gravy and we're just Boy Scoutsouts, you know? So I was like, if y'all ever eat deer? Like no, and so they're eating deer. Like, oh my God, that's the best ever eat, dude.

Like, you know, how do we harvest one, dude? And I like, and I knew then, like, we got So that to the point. Gwen had to say, like, get back over here. Y'all had been kidnapped by my husband and those living in friends. Like, I'm back. And so later,

we wrote, Blake rode them around the ranch and showed them a few deer and that's awesome turkey, run off and stuff and hogs. And so one of them ended up and got his hunter's safety course and now hunts in just out of L.A. now.

And so that night around the dinner table, he was telling him, he said, man, I've done good. I made some money. And he said, but, man, And he's just like you said, I feel like there's something missing. He said, man, I've just always somehow thought about hunting, but I just thought it was unobtainable.

And anyway, when he said that, I thought about what he was saying, and he was basically thinking about the roots of all his success, of doing everything musically he was made a lot of his accomplishments. But I said something to him, and it hit me because it set true with me. And I think us hunters, even though, you know, we've had a certain amount of success around certain areas, I said, man, you know, when you know you understand nature and understand hunting and you've got a certain group of friends, I said, you're never afraid of losing it all because you can lose it all and still gain a lot. And when I said it to him, I almost had really reminded said it to myself. I'm thinking, you really can't fail. If you go bankrupt, if you lose everything, certainly, I certainly don't wish Jerry ever loses Cagas Jack. But my point is, when you're rooted with that,

it's like you got your family, you've got a handful of friends. Yes, you might not be hunting a 190-inch deer, but the fundamental opportunity to take a little old dog and go tree some squirrels or go rabbit hunting or kill you a dough and backstrap and cube steak and make some camp chili, you really have won. Because like you said, it ain't the things, because you've got the one thing that matters the most.

Not to say materialistically, a man shouldn't have the right to work hard to get a better car, a better home, swimming pool. But for me, it's like I remind myself, and that's what makes places like this evening special because it's like, holy cow, I got to Kate, now I get to see what some of this icing tastes like, too. So it's a, yeah, that's sincere in the thought process of where I'm at. But it took me to the age I am to even for it all to come together. Same for me. Yeah, you know what I mean?

You just change in life and you got a different perspective. it's better. It is better. It is better. I agree. Yeah. It's been a hell of a journey here. Brian, like, for what you've seen, you've hunted, like, a lot of the best places down here.

One thing that I was curious about, Jerry can chime in on this, too, but it's like the body size of these bucks. It's like, to me, it seems like it's way different than the other South Texas deer. And I don't know. kind of play into this real quick, but we talked about hunting being on DNA for eons. And you said something about like, I think the minerals and the structure of the deer, the bones, the head size. These deer have changed over time probably because of the soil. Epigenetics.

Epigenetics, right. And so, but then you have almost two different species because you have those giant body bucks, which are up to what, 270-some pounds. Yeah, we killed 278 this year. And then there's giant bucks that weigh one set, 100 pounds difference. 100 pounds difference. So talk to me about the species you've hunted in that,

and if this is different from that and what you've noticed. Yeah, I think all over South Texas, but even everywhere that I've hunted White Tau, I bet you would see the same that it's often that there's two different types of deer in any given location. I think a lot of it's the length of their body, but also back to the nutrition part. if you've got that foundation, it's a lot like an elite athlete who is on the proper,

you know, they're dialed in on the food, they're dialed in on the supplements, they're dialed in on their sleep and the way they work out. All that stuff is all dialed, and that's what you get here. And they call it the Golden Triangle of Texas. That is where the genetics and the range is completely dialed for deer. but even within that it's just like people you know you've got big people and small people and and uh everywhere that I've hunted in Texas and I you know the deer in East Texas and the deer in West Texas look different the deer in South Texas look different than just north of Highway

90 the hill country deer they they're like completely different looking deer but within each of those areas and within South Texas you're going to have those two types they can still be giant in the antler department and they can still be fat and fool you they look like a really big you know heavy body deer but it's a shorter torso deer or shorter leg of deer and they're just a more compact deer and if you don't see them next to one of those big ones you don't necessarily know it but here everything is so dialed for the nutrition and the management of the genetics and so forth for for age that i think it's it's where the antlers are are the more consistent thing, the body sizes are just very different.

That I had a question then, do you look at these deer, because of all the experience you've had now, because say for example, you could have a 200-inch rack on a 300-pound deer, it's going to look different than a 200-inch rack on 170-pound deer. So are you looking at like the perspective of that rack compared to the deer size? Because you could overestimate the size of the antlers. Yeah, you have to. because the head's bigger, so the animals looks like that.

Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, the body size can really mess you up. You know, the times that we misjudged deer has been based on assuming a certain body size and being wrong about it. Right. Okay. You know, early on, like, the second year we were here, first year we were here. You know, I bought the place, I had a few friends came. We had more big deer than we had people to shoot them, you know.

So, Tim, your guy, like, oh, there's deer over there. Why don't you go shoot it? He goes, he hunts it for, you know, two or three weeks, couldn't find it. Finally, he shoots it. He calls me, his boss, he goes, remember, you told me I could shoot this one. I'm like, yeah, I did, Tim. He goes, okay, he goes, I just want to remind you that. I said, so what's up?

He goes, man, we walked over there that deer. He goes, I couldn't move him. He said, he was so big. He said, we couldn't move him. He said, and his horns are giant. he says not what we thought he was. He's a lot bigger than we thought he was. Okay.

I'm like, okay, well, that's no problem. But you can really misjudge that way. That buck was over 200, wasn't it? Oh, Lord, I mean, yeah. I mean, two inches. No, no, that one was like 194. Oh, okay. That other one he shot was, it was actually a strong.

He's almost six inches of shot. The other one I call pincushins. He shot it was a 205. Gotcha. Yeah, he shot that with his pistol. That was another. We didn't have many people hunting. and it's like we had more 200s and I wanted to shoot so like 10.

Go down there with a pistol and shoot that thing. I love it! It shot a 205 and won a big deer contest with a pistol. It's in there. It's in there. But it was in the same area that deer shot last night. Okay. So the deer shot last night in the spectrum of large it's probably on the lower quartile of a mature.

Of a mature. What do you mean? Just body-wise. Oh, yeah. 190-pound deer for us here is a small deer. Right. It's a very small deer. That was the point I was getting to, but that would affect how I'm judging the deer if I was the one.

And you guys are so good. You're to the inch, it just seems like. Well, not to the inch, but maybe 205. Pretty close. Pretty close. And I was thinking to myself, I was like, God, I could really screw this up because I've been at San Carlos, and there's been some small-bodied bulls that. mess you up.

I killed a bull that we called dagger, and I thought he was over 400, and then it just, it looked like he was gutted before he even gutted him. He's just like thin and kind of small, and so those antlers look giant, but his relative. He's like 380,

which is still a giant bull, but it's not 400 because of that body messed up that perspective. But the bodies are really can throw you off. Yeah, you know, the deer that I shot last night, I was a little hesitant to shoot him. Yeah. Because I knew he was a small body. Right. And I thought we might get some ground shrinkage, but we didn't get to ground shrinkage on him.

But it is a way that you really have to be careful. Look at the UFC. There's weight classes from 125 all the way up to, you know, the 265 limit on heavyweight. And those people, you know, in the heavyweight division might be an American. guy and there might be another American guy in the band of weight vision you know and they're it's the same country same people eating the same stuff yeah but just different bodies yeah yeah the horns could just be like looks some people are handsome like waddell and some of the orange no no no about that they got that it's just a look so yeah it's uh well i was curious too um so we know how great it is we know

the history of it what's the goal for for the ranch i mean What's your goal with this? You're going to be retiring. So where do you see Cactus Jack going? We're just going to keep pushing the envelope. Yeah. Trying to make it better and better. You know, and I'm really blessed.

You know, my son enjoys the ranch. My daughter and her husband. He killed a grand buck the other day. Oh, he did. Yeah, he killed him 197, 10 points better than one eye shot. But they really love it. And Jake's going to be a part of it for the long haul. He loves it.

So, you know, he's my. adopted son now. So he's a good guy. You can't help but love Jake. So he's part of the family now. And the plan is that this is going to be a legacy that lives on way past me and that the kids are going to run it and they love it. They're going to try to make it better and better. So, you know, we've got to put it in a position where it's financially viable because it's not for the feign of heart.

Yeah. Owning and running something like this. But, yeah, we're working on that. That's the plan is the future. We've had a lot of people interested in buying it. Like, well, how about I sell it? Can't replace it? Yeah, you can't replay.

If I sell it, I'm out. I'm done to white tail hunting. You know, I'll just do my elk hunting thing. Don't sell it. No, no, I have no interest in that. Unless it's turning us. I'd have to help out full time, which, you know, I can handle that, too. That's one thing the three of us share is a love for elk hunting, too.

Oh, that's amazing. I know. Yeah, there's nothing. I mean, I don't know. Big old anything I like, but for sure, big bowls. Greatness in any form is interesting. Oh, it is. It is.

Yeah, so, I mean, I just want to thank you for allowing me this opportunity, but then also allowing me to bring my friends and to have share, you know, because I knew last year when Levi brought me here, this is a special place. You know, I got to meet you and talk. And I just knew that the people that I know love the same. same things I love would appreciate Cactus Jack, just like these guys are. And still, I have to say again, still have not even killed a buck here and have all these glowing things to say about what this is.

And it's a testament to what you've built. But I just want to thank you for allowing my friends to come and appreciate this. It's an honor. Yeah, it's, I don't know. I don't have much, I know you've got to get on a plane here heading back to Houston, but, man, I just, I just wanted to say that. Well, I appreciate it. You know, it's an honor having you here and the kind of people.

We have good people that come here and they bring good people, and it just grows a family. You know, won't you guys come back? You make this place better because it's half people and half deer. And I think we've got a great combination. And the whole vision, the vision is to have the best people in the world participating in us. Visionists have the best hunting ranch in the world, have the best people in the world participating in it. And we're moving in that direction. That's right.

Yeah. It's an honor having you here. I do love Robin. Great cook in there. And I know Tim helps her too, but just love Robin also. I mean, she's a wonderful. Talk about staff here. Yeah, she's just like, so, Cameron, tell me, so you don't like seafood?

No. You like vegetables? No. Just meat. But she's just like, have you got any clothes I can wash? Can I do it? Heard you got bloody loud. night but it's just like the nicest people it's just like so what if you your goal

to make it better to elevate the experience you're doing it and I don't know what's going to happen but man it's been amazing well I just want to keep doing this keep having fun yeah yeah y'all are the exception I always tell my friends none of us are gonna get rich or famous doing this y'all probably done pretty good job of that but but we're here just to have a good time and have great people and do what we love and and having y'all join us awesome Thank you. Do you guys have any closing thoughts here? I'm just can't express how, echoing, I can't, I've grown up in Texas.

I've been a fanatical bow hunter of whitetail my whole life. I love Elkhutton and everything Western, but it's, it's, when you grow up with whitetail, you always come back to them, right? It's always like, man, I can just do this. So I've seen it all over, and this is the most incredible place to hunt white tails I've ever seen, but going back to the earlier, discussion if it weren't for the people it wouldn't matter really agree and i i think you get both here and it's just you can't beat it so i'm thankful to be here i'm thankful for the invite and uh i am i hope to be here as long as it's here so i look forward to having you guys back i look part of seeing the deer you're all going to kill because you're going to kill i can't i can't wait either

you were saying you were going to go back out there we're going to be like fris parley and that band down down by the reason we're staying with you jerry we're not leaving this place the worst part is waiting for the next hunt here like it's either like right now waiting for the afternoon or at night waiting for the morning you're just like i just want to knock myself out i just want to go to sleep which is a light switch i would just turn me off wake up let's go hunt Because it's like the time in between, you're like, you just want to get back out there and see what's going to come in. I know, I know, man. When you can, you know, sum up the fact you can have this much fun and still be on this type of caliber of trophy.

Because so many times, you know, you hear people, you know, whether it's private or public, elk hunting versus, you know, high desert mule deer hunting or maybe you're going into Canada for different things. Obviously, whatever your goal can dictate, whether it is extremely physical or harsh conditions or cold or you've got to be physically fit in order to get up. Whether it's sheep hunting. But when you can have this mature animals and to hunt, you know, three or four hours in the morning, three or four at night, and have the opportunity to see it and then eat this kind of food, tell these kind of stories, and laugh and cut up, add jokes to your, you know, joke book with people in camp. And it really, it just, it's hard to get better. I mean, how, you know, like I say, you know,

if somebody were to out hunt you, it'd be hard to outfund you down here. You can't, it's just, it's just a good. It's just fun, and you got to call. Good. Making life good. If we just had Bosepha sitting right here. We need a little bit. What else you got, Jim?

He balances out a little bit. Take that positivity down. notch or two. We want to see how big of an asshole is. We want to see. Just in person. Yeah, other than that, I don't know how it could get better. We need to do one of these about Elkinson, too.

I know. We need to do one of these talks about Elkhut. I know there's at least three of us sitting in this guy. I should love it. And that's my own, that's my last thing talking about Cameron and I, the one thing I'm going to do, and I've got to get Cameron to the south.

And Jake, your guy, I wouldn't argue it is. I wanted him to come to the south. Maybe him and Joe go turkey hunt with us in a little swamp south. I think he would like it. I like a 20-pound. Do you hear that really sneaky air sound coming out of the balloon over there?

Yeah. That's what I told Jim Shockey one time. Shockey was talking about he always made fun of him because I like turkey hunt so much. I said that's because Shockey, you would starve to death if you had to kill a turkey in Alabama. It's easy to go kill an ardvark in Cambodia. or Chinese Wargoat

One horn Safari Club National Grand Champion but you could not yell in a turkey in Georgia, Alabama. You redneck. You don't even know the Queen's English. My best comeback was, I said, because in America we don't have a queen. It's not the Queens English, just our English.

Lord. Well, good luck this afternoon. I would go get on a plane and hope to see you guys back down. right here jerry we'll take we'll take care of the place please take care yeah please take thank you guys love you guys love the experience love taking this time to sit down and catch up and uh share with everybody here on the podcast so thanks for the invitation to do this thanks for breaking down here okay all right kill big bucks let's go kill some big love baby