Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 122 - The King of Elk Hunting: Casey Brooks

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Join us for a conversation with Cameron Hanes and Casey Brooks, a farmer out of Washington and has been chasing bulls with a bow for decades. He’s put down 86 bulls, with his recent bull being a pending world record! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Casey Brooks: https://www.instagram.com/caseybrooks65 Thank you to our sponsors: MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order GoHunt: https://gohunt.com/ use code CAM when you sign up for $50 towards the gear shop + 10% off the GoHunt store Timestamps: 00:00:00 Competitive Nature in Bowhunting 00:06:07 Casey Brooks Son 00:08:39 A Leaked Photo - World Record Bull 00:16:10 Passing Up Bulls Over 400 00:19:47 Casey’s Favorite Hunts 00:21:01 Dealing with Negativity from Shooting Big Bulls 00:30:12 Ad Break 00:31:47 Photoshopped Images of Casey’s Bull 00:34:41 The Distances that Elk Travel 00:37:33 Respect for the Sacrifices in Hunting 00:41:39 Casey’s Favorite Hunt 00:45:57 You Can’t Believe Everything You Hear 00:49:28 The Secret to Finding Big Bulls 00:53:09 Casey’s Preferred Elk Calling Strategy 00:58:16 Where Casey’s Woodsmanship Came From 01:03:55 Darren Collins & Randy Ulmer 01:06:15 Learning from Blood Trailing 01:09:41 Casey’s Hunting Goals 01:10:58 Casey’s Dad, Calling Bulls as a Kid, & Jack Nicklaus 01:15:39 Premium Hunts & Michael Park 01:20:10 Casey’s Hunting Mentors as a Kid & Working at the Archery Shop 01:25:44 Learning from Hunting the Wilderness Alone 01:28:41 How Casey’s Evolved Over the Years in Bowhunting 01:32:16 You Never Regret the Pain from Packing a Successful Kill Out 01:36:48 Casey’s Advice to Upcoming Bowhunters 01:39:32 The Key for New Bowhunters to Having a Successful Journey 01:40:44 Casey’s Bowhunting Gear 01:45:29 Broadheads - Rocky Mountain Titanium 100 01:52:35 RIVEN Elk Calls 01:56:25 Big Names in the Hunting Industry & Being Approachable 02:00:21 Memories from one of Casey’s Caribou Hunts 02:05:34 Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammering Collective with Casey Brooks. This is kind of, is this distracting to you?

Never. So Casey Brooks, for those that don't know, The pending world record is sitting right here 400 and what was official score 82? Yeah, 482 and 4. 91 and 6 gross. Incredible. Almost can't say it. I know, incredible.

So yeah, I wanted this to start the podcast just for a little perspective on how big, how giant this animal is. It looks prehistoric. It's incredible. So let's lift this off here now. We can get to the, talk, talk about the hunt. Casey, so we did a fun little intro with the antler sitting on the table. And so now we're to the real meat and potatoes of what we're going to talk about. But I want to say, I want to say, I want to get something out of the way real, real quick.

It's like, you've been like a let, you know, you always hear about these people who, oh, I know the, I know the hunter that could, that could blow socks off anybody. just nobody's ever heard of them. And I'm not saying nobody's ever heard of you, but your presence in the industry, I think, is like, it's big, but it should have been, to me, it's like you've always been like this icon in bow hunting. To me, it's always been like Casey Brooks. Did you hear about Casey Brooks?

Did you hear what the animal he killed? Did you hear about this hunt that he did? And to me, it's like you've been larger than life in bow hunting. Whereas there's people out there who, like these younger guys coming up, like I would say some some guys haven't heard of Fred bear Chuck Adams or whatever and then like to me it's like you are at that level and we've got people who are elevated in the industry who haven't done a fraction of what you've done and it's like it's such an honor to have you here I guess is long story short it's such an honor to have you here because I've looked up to you for years for decades for being just this giant bull bowhunter and it's just like it just means a lot that you're sitting here with me i just want you to know that oh hey thanks for having me and i'd say back it down the tracks a little bit let's back up chuck adams fred bear those are pretty big names to be using that in the same sentence and those people are my idols so

i mean you know all the people that were there before me um the archery super slammers all the people that shot all 29 north american big game animals you know what you know what you know what what it's like to sit on, you know, sit in a tent thinking about, am I going to get this animal or not? And, you know, you think all the people in all the hours sleeping in a tent on the mountain for sheep with fog outside, two guys in a tent for a week and you can't even go outside. Yeah. You know, all these guys, I look up to all those guys, you know, you think about all of them. I'm pretty low-key. I hunt a lot and I don't put a lot on social media.

and I guess you can see why, you know. Yeah, it can be pretty toxic for sure. It can. It can. And, you know, might as well get this out of the way, straight up right off the get-go here. For many years, I was quite jealous of you. And that jealousy and envy thing is a horrible thing, especially amongst hunters. It's bad enough as it is in our society. But, you know, for years, I was like,

at Cameron, that Cameron. And then one day I woke up and I says, why am I upset with Cameron? And I apologize, you know, for not being a super good guy to you all those years. And God put it in my head one morning and said, straighten up. And I did. So, you know, thanks for having me over here. I've watched you and followed you. And I appreciate you letting me come over here and say my peace on my help. Well, it's, yeah, we're going to get to that. I mean, on that note, I do want to say we're competitive. It's what probably draws us to bow hunting is because it's such a hard challenge. And it's like I think the best bow hunters are very competitive people.

So I understand where we can get that competition part and that kind of can rear its head in different ways. So what I respect is when you said God put it on your heart or whatever, you called me. and this is a couple years ago. And I didn't know. I mean, I just thought you were like a quiet guy, which you are a quiet guy. But we'd been at shows together. And I'm like, well, maybe he doesn't like me

or maybe he's just quiet. I didn't know. Yes. Let's go with yes on that. Nothing personal, sort of. I understand. But the point is, it's like, because I can think of a guy,

this big name guy in the industry right now, who's actually talked shit about me that I've seen on text. And he still can't say, oh, I, you know, if I was wrong, sorry about that. He even knows that I read what he said. And he's still like, oh, it's taken out of context. So point is, that guy, but you, you called me. I didn't even know about it.

So it was like, you were like, no, I want to talk to, you know, let's talk it out. And it meant so much to me because I had put you on this pedestal. And then for you to take time out and just like, just. and talk and like now we've now I feel like we've had some great conversations and so aside from all that one thing that stood out to me with this you know everybody wants to hear about this bull and I can't wait to hear about it but what struck me is when you killed this bull not that not that it was a new world record it was I read a post that your son made um beau brooks bad ass caller badass hunter I've never met him, but when he said the nice things he said about his dad, and I know what it means

to be a dad to young men, and young men generally don't talk up their dad, you know what I mean? And at least for a while, maybe when they get older, they do. But for him to say, I think he called you the king of El Cunning, is how it started off. And I think for some people, just somebody getting the attention like that, like somebody would say, even your son to say, this guy is the king of elk cunning. People like take that personal. Like it takes away from that they're not a good elk hunter or something. But what I, instead of like saying like, well, no, he's not the king, all I saw was your son loved you so much to give you those, the alkylades publicly and to say how much he respected you and that how hard you work and how that, as a dad, that stood up.

out to me that your son had that much love for you and respect for you in that post that's what struck me well at 27 years old 28 i guess he's 28 now um you know to think of your dad like that at 28 years old and not at 45 i think that's pretty amazing yeah when i was 18 years old and someone would say you're just like your dad i'd have said f you okay that's right and now i would say thank you because i realize what kind of a person he is um i'm not going to lie I cried when I read that that my son posted. I'm not too much of a man to admit that, you know. And he has turned out to be quite a young man.

Evidently, the daily beatings have paid off. Yeah. So I was gone a lot when he was, you know, growing up, super slamming, running all over the country trying to shoot that super slam. And there's a standing joke, you know, he played the trumpet in school. I never once heard him play the trumpet. And I said, you're a liar. And then his mom pulls out a picture of him holding his trumpet.

So I did miss some of my, you know, some of his younger years. But that, you know, people said that he exaggerated in that. I hunted September, October, November, and December. And I was in Washington all four of those months. And nobody knew, including my wife, when I was going after that bull and when I wasn't. Some of my friends that I was hunting with were being, they were being followed. because they knew those guys, you know, and they knew, my friends knew where this bull was. And they were, you know, there was people watching all the time.

So I was driving a spy rig that no one knew and going and stay in in different places. And, you know, it worked out, you know, it worked out pretty well. When you get a bull like that, it draws a lot of attention. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, and a picture leaked to that bull about a year ago. And so the governor tag, the guy that. that had the governor tag for Washington was very, very interested in that bull, and you can see why. Yeah.

My friends that knew where this bull was, they were not interested in giving up the location for any price, and they said we're not interested. And they wanted me to shoot that bull as a friend, and there was no money involved in it. This was just friends, helping friends, and that's what it's about. Yeah. I told the boys, they're big shed hunters those guys are. And I told them if I will not lose a friend over an animal, okay? I'm almost 60.

I'll be 60 April 1st. And I'm not going down that route. I've lost friends over animals and I won't do it. No animal's worth it to me. So I told my friends, I says, look, if I don't get the green light from you guys, I'm not going to hunt that bull. and I said, but if I don't hunt that bull, there's a chance the governor's tag

is going to come in there and shoot that bull. And they, the next day, called me and said, you have the green light. Now, of course, I didn't know it scored 490. I would have been, well. Boys. Well, could we do about this? Yeah, yeah, we've got to figure this out.

But they were like, you know what? That tells us what kind of friend you are. And it worked out. It was special. It was hard on those guys. When I shot that bull, it was hard on them. because they spent so much time finding his sheds. You know, you get a bond with these craters, you know.

Yeah. And, you know, they spent 45 to 60 days on this bull before they found the sheds. Yeah. And they got them both. And those sheds, I think, were in the 440s. Yeah, it's a giant. Well, I mean, okay, so the biggest non-typical bull ever killed, that's what this bull is. It's pending, of course.

It has to be panel squirties. There's two that gross more than this bull. Okay. The Shipsy bull from the San Carlos is in the 500 range and the spider bowl. Okay. He's at like 501 gross. When was the San Carlos bull killed? It was a long time ago.

Okay. Long time ago, you'd have to ask Tim. I bet it was in the 70s, 80s, maybe. Yep. I wonder if I've seen an old black and white picture of that. It's a dry lake bowl. Yeah. Yeah.

It seems like I've seen a really heavy, like that heavy. like that heavy wise he's he's forked on both you know both seconds just like this bull is yeah yeah it's so but this this will be the number one non-typical because even with non-typical is there's deductions right is that why those those bulls or why would this bull be number one and those that gross more wouldn't be well they have more antler than this one this one the main frame is a little over 430 the six point frame. Okay. And then the deductions bring it down to 421 or something or 420. I haven't looked at it, you know, since it was officially scored. Yeah. And then it's got like 57 inches of non-typical of which there's no deductions. Okay, right. Added on for the direct net score. So gotcha. Like I say,

you know, this thing's the blueprint for Boone and Crocket and Popin Young. Yeah. Absolutely what these, you know, what they were looking for when they were thinking about how are we going to score a non-typical. Well, it's, it's insane. Also. And, We were talking about it when I shot outside when you got here. But so you right now, you have the three and four bowl. And so this will be number one. And then you'll have number one, four and five. How?

How can Casey Brooks have three of the top five bowls ever killed? I mean, how long have we been bow hunting as man? And Pope and Young been around. And it's like, and now one man, I'm telling you, that's why I looked up to you for so many years. One man has three of the top five. How? luck let's go with that well there's some obsession there too i mean we talked about missing

trumpet practice or concerts or things like that i mean there's sacrifices somebody people make sacrifices to to chase whatever goal they have i think some will sacrifice more than others and so how have you done it well if anybody asks me you do anything in september it's it's a no uh and just depends on what tags I have. Sometimes I'm there longer than September, but September's are pretty special. We only have so many left. I'm not going to miss them. And I try and put myself in places where I know that I stand a chance of finding a great bowl. And what you have to understand is, is I have places in Oregon that I've hunted since 1982. And my family learned how to bow hunt there. I've learned how to bow hunt there. I've been going to the same place all these years.

And I was there last year and I shot a five-point bowl that would score 250. And that bowl was my 85th bowl with a bow and arrow. And it meant the world to me. Yeah. I love to eat them. But typically my wife is the one that fills the freezer and I fill the walls. That's the way it goes at our house usually. You know, I'm looking for pretty good bulls.

My wife, she's anything with antlers, she's ready to shoot, you know. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I killed a Roosevelt right. It's laying right by that bull. I killed at San Carlos. and it's a great bull. I mean, I got his antlers. I got his skull,

and it's just like, I'm going to have those antlers forever. And it doesn't mean, really mean any less to me than any other bull. No. I just love bow hunting. I love bow hunting elk. So I get your point about the five point you killed.

Yep. But like there is something about, like when I go to San Carlos, which I know you've hunted, there's something about hunting in country where a world record could step out. Yes. I mean,

that's the thing is like, We put ourselves in those positions. Does it guarantee anything? No. No. But you never know. That's what's great about it. All the years, I hunted San Carlos for about 10 years.

And all the years that I hunted San Carlos, it was really funny because I'd be there and bowls are bugling and things are going. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, this really isn't that great. It's pretty darn good. And it's honestly about as good as it gets. And then I'd shoot a bull that was a monster. like, this is the best place ever, man. I'm coming back next year, you know?

So it's hunting just like anywhere else. Those bulls are leaving and they're going into, you know, those units that are right next to it. They're crossing back and forth and you can find a giant bull and he may not be there tomorrow. He might jump that fence and go out onto the public. So you just never know. And one of the things that makes it difficult, like the number three, number four,

number four bull that I have, the number four in Poppignon, used to be number three. It's the number four now. That bowl, we went out that morning, and I saw a bull and called it in. It was about a little over 400, I bet. It was a big bull. And I was looking at it, and I looked at my buddy that's with me, and I says, get me out of here before I do something. Then I'm not ready to do. You know, if it's the fourth day of the hunt and it's a two-week hunt, I'm just not ready yet.

Right. And we went up the hill, got another bowl ripping, and he came in, and I popped. him and it was a 10 by 11 and he gross 449 and 7.8. Oh my God. Okay. I mean, when you see that coming, it's like, okay, there's no doubt. Yeah. Here we go. But to get there, the point is, is you passed up.

How big was the other bowl? 400. 400, 402, 405. That's what people don't understand. It's like to get the bulls you've killed, you have to potentially pass up a 400. You're swinging for the fence. And I've done that before. And, boy, I mean, I really need my head examined at times.

And the very first time I hunted dry lake, I passed up three bowls over 420 probably looking for the world record. And I shot a 356 on the last day. Wow. And proud of it. Yeah. It's all part of it. Was that the bull that had the flyer thing come on off the side? No, that's a different one.

Oh, different one. Yeah, that's a different one. Jeez. I can't keep track of all your giant bull. That one's 68 inches wide on the outside and it grosses 452. Oh, man. So prior to this bowl, that was my biggest bowl. Giant bulls.

I don't think people realize how big of animals those are. Oh. When you look at that much, that many inches up there. Yeah. It's insane. His left antler was 220 inches, as I remember, 220, 222. So. Well, so you put yourself in big bowl country, basically, is how you, because if you look

at the number, so you said, that bull is your 86th bull. And how long have you bohunted? 40-some years. 45 years. 45 years. Yeah. And how many bulls over 400? 12.

12 bowls over 400. Yeah. Jeez. Kind of hard to say. That's insane. And now the world record. Yeah. I mean, so how long, how long, you haven't had the world record before, right?

No, I had number two and number three. Okay. Nick Franklin had the world record. And Nick's bull had like a 56 inch inside spread. It was a whale of a bull, you know, just huge frame. thing. Yeah. I've been chasing Nick's Bull for a long time. And then the guy in Canada

ended up getting the new world record up there. And that bull was a world record. I'm not sure how many years it's been the world record probably for four years or something. I'm just guessing. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so it's been a lifetime basically of chasing trying to get a

world record. It has. But the world record is, sure, I want to shoot a world record, but I'm also pretty bad. I love to shoot elk and I love to hunt elk. So, I mean, you take me to a spot. The best bowl I can find is 260. He's going to get shot. Okay? I respect that. You know? Yeah. I love to eat him. I love to hunt them, you know. And once I get mine, I'll go out and I'll call another one in for my buddy. And once he's got one, I'll go call another one in for another. I'm going to be in the woods until the end of the season.

Yeah. So that's, I know that feeling. I was obsessed with figuring out a way I could hunt all of September for my whole life. You know, it's just, so what is it about elk? Is elk your favorite or what do you think? Or do you just like to hunt? I mean, a lot of people know me for elk, but I'd say, you know, I mean, this is going to blow your mind, but turkeys are one of my all-time favorite. I hunt turkeys.

I'm pretty bad. Once I start, I can't stop. So quite often, 35 days for turkeys, you know, and maybe up to 10 different states. And I actually leave the country to hunt turkeys. Really? Yeah. Okay, I didn't realize that. Koo's deer is probably one of my favorite hunts.

I hunt coos deer every year. I love hunting mule deer, of course. You know, we're here. White tails, I've learned a lot of lessons hunting white tails. My hat goes off to the guys hunting white tails because, man, those things are smart. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I have learned so many lessons for hunting white tails.

Blacktail deer. I used to hunt black tails a lot, you know. Yeah. I remember, you killed some good black tails. I just know what I would remember seeing. I'm like, dang, he's doing it again. Yeah. Giant everything now, really. No, there's some, there's, I've been lucky a couple times and, and, uh, I'll take luck any day of the week, man. Yeah, we need it. Well, tell, so tell me about this bull. I mean, okay, anybody who's had success,

you're going to have detractors for sure. When you have, when you kill the biggest bull ever killed in the history of man, those detractors are going to, everybody's paying attention, right? Right. So tell me about this bull. Yeah, we've dealt with, we deal with negativity all the time, but there's also lying. There's also BS. There's also people who just don't know filling in the blanks. So tell me the story of this bull. Well, obviously, there's a lot of that out there. You know, there's a lot of negative stuff out there. And, and you know what? A lot of it is jealousy. and a lot of it is confusion. They're just repeating what they've heard.

And I can't wrong the people for that. I don't, you know, I've been there. I understand. But the truth of the matter is this bowl was a national forest bull. This bull lived in the national forest. He was a, he was in this thick, nasty, I mean, almost like you would hunt a blacktail in. It was real thick and it was just in a rough spot on this mountain. I'm going to share the pictures with you guys and you'll be able to post them up for the people.

But this bull in November or December, early December, he showed up and I had him on camera. I got a picture of him. And one minute later, I had a mountain lion standing in his tracks in the national forest. And I was like, oh, please. I mean, we've come too far with this bull to lose him to a mountain lion, you know. And there were plenty of wolf tracks and lion. tracks. There's lots of that stuff going on everywhere. You know, it's getting worse for us. Right. And ran him off the mountain. We picked him up in another spot. It was public land.

And I thought, okay, we're in business again. He'll settle down and everything will be good. And a guy came in there in a closed spot where he weren't supposed to be, came in with a side by side and drove all around in there. And anyway, that bull got ran off again. And we lost it. him for 10, 15 days, maybe, something like that. We couldn't find him. And looking, looking, looking, looking. Boy, we were trying every set of tracks, it doesn't look like him, you know.

And then there's not a lot of elk there. So if you find a track, there's a pretty good chance. But there was a couple of bulls he was hanging with that were young, you know, two, three, four-year-old type bulls. They didn't have that track like he had. We're looking for that elephant-looking thing, you know. And we ran around and, And we checked and checked and checked, and we didn't come up with him.

And we found a track that we figured was him. And it was in our minds, and I tried to get permission to get into this. It was about a 60-acre woodlot. And we tried to get permission to get in there and set a camera up and hunt this bull. And no one responded. And about a week went by, and I only had three days left. And I'd been in that car accident. So I lost control of my truck in the snow in a corner, and it wasn't graveled.

Everything else was graveled. That corner wasn't graveled. And I saw the snowplow coming head on. And I tried to pull it in a little tighter because those things are huge wide. Yeah. It fractured a bone right here in my wrist. This side was messed up. But, you know, my tag was a raffle tag.

Raffle tag, you know, not auction. It was a raffle tag. Everybody's got to understand this. Yeah. It's a $7 ticket. You can buy as many as you want, ticket-wise, but I've also been beat out by a guy that buys one ticket many, many times. Yeah.

So anyway, it's any weapon tag. And I was going to hunt with a bow no matter why. it would mean anything if I shot it with a gun, not against anybody that does like that out with a rifle. It's just for me personally. The satisfaction, I'd rather shoot a spike with a bow than a 500, 500 with a rifle. It's just me. Yeah, same way.

You know, kind of goofy that way. But we didn't have any other plan but to hunt a different bull. And we were driving, going to the other spot to hunt a backup bull. And I got a voicemail that says, Casey, I cold knocked. and the second time I cold knocked on that same place, the person calls back and says, you're more than welcome to hunt our property. No money exchanged, just a cold knock,

just like you did when you were a kid, trying to get permission to hunt rabbits on someone's property. Yeah. And I went in there, I said, turn around. We're swinging for the fence. And he's like, what's going on? It says, turn around. So my buddy turned around,

and we ran down there. We put some alfalfa out, put some apples out. And you're only allowed to hunt with 10 gallons in the state of Washington, which doesn't last very long without. And put a camera in a blind. And I shot twice. And it was everything I could do.

I can, you know, lifting my arm up, I can feel that big time. You know, something's tore in there. And I shot twice. And I was hitting about two inches, maybe three inches left. And I said, I'll just aim a little bit right. You know, we're not going to adjust anything. I'll just aim a little right. I know better than that because I'm so focused when I'm trying to shoot.

Usually you hold a pin right off. I picked the spot and I don't say, okay, wait a minute, we got to move it over. I didn't do that, you know. I saw that hole was a little left. He was quartering towards me like a few. And then he pulled his shoulder way forward. And I popped him in there and the arrow completely disappeared. That's good.

Yeah, it was a good feeling. Because you wouldn't want that. I didn't want to hear that. No. No. And I did hit. You know, it was just a little bit left to where I was in. Did you catch the edge of the blade?

I didn't want to look. Yeah, yeah. It got through, though. I just saw the arrow went all the way in and I was like, oh, praise the Lord. Yeah. And good height. So you're like dead bull.

It was. It was done. And I cal called. I had the cow call for two days. I had one of those one of my sons, diaphragms in my mouth the whole time. I bet that's one soggy dude, man. It was in there for two days straight. Anyway, last day of the season, the first second to the last day of the season, the bull did not come in.

The first night we put it out, we got him to come. You know, he came with a four point bull and he ate, got his picture. During daylight? No, at night. Okay. So we knew he was there. I sat the whole next day, never saw him. And I sat the next day from daylight before daylight until, oh, I think it was 3.45.

And this is the last day of the season. I'm about to burn a raffle tag that anybody give anything for. Right. And I'm deleting pictures on my phone. I'm just dinking around, you know, just bored sitting there. I got my wool coat over my pants trying to stay warm. And, you know, I'm going like this. I mean, it's the closest thing to exercise I get.

It's kind of like crunches. You know, I'm going like this a whole bunch and watching and nothing. I fish, or I use ice fishing blinds is what I use for hunting for coos deer and for, you know, for a certain hunt. So instead of buying a blind that's already got windows cut into it, I buy an ice fishing blind, which I can do something for you later to show, you know, your listeners. But I buy a certain blind and then I cut my own one window into it. it and let it fold down. And then over here, I cut another little small triangle, but it has, it has plastic behind

it so you can't, the scent can't get out, but I can see. So there's a space of cloth this big in between it. And I'll be darned, I sat there and sat there and sat there all that time, you know, doing this and doing this. And I'm looking at my phone and then I look up. And here he is at 23 yards. He walked in behind the fabric the whole way. I could have seen him coming for 100.

Yeah. You walked in just right behind that fabric. I never saw him until I saw that right side come out, you know, and I was like, oh, showtime. We're open for business. Yeah. Here we go. Oh, what, what, I mean, I can't imagine the emotion that you felt at that moment.

I mean, because there's probably something in your head like, you know, we make, we go through these scenarios. You're probably like, well, no, probably not going to come in. This is going to be it. Never going to get him killed. Probably never going to see him again. And you make, you're talking yourself about this. And all of a sudden, boom, there he is.

Oh, you go from a zero to a hero like that. Yeah, to 100 miles an hour. Oh, yeah. And that's why Bowhunting is, you know, chicken solid or chicken shit to chicken solid. Just bam with one arrow cut loose. You know, it's like, wow. Did that just happen? Yeah.

But that's why you got to hold out to the very end. You know, that last day, there's so many times where you're at home and you're tired, you're whipped. You got one more. evening left, go. Yeah. Don't stay home. Yeah. You know, you got to, you got to try. You're not going to kill them in the recliner. I hear you. Yeah. One thing I do want to show that we'll make, we'll include this as part of the podcast, but there's people we talked about, whatever, who knows what their motives are. But they've taken pictures of your bowl and photoshopped it into pictures of that bowl, like with houses behind it. You know, so you got, we have the two pictures

and we have to see, obviously, it's very clear what happened. But that's what kind of doaps a lot of people. Then they start believing the BS, but then also now there's a picture out there that confirms this BS story. So that's got to be frustrating. Oh, it's very frustrating. If you're the guy that did that digital creation of my bull and put houses behind it, you did a great job.

And I'd love for the guy to digitally enhance me for a new walk on the beach to I mean, the guy, well, yeah, the guy's going to make you look like I'm more than I am. I mean, the guy did a great job, but it's unfortunate. The problem is this, the guys that are saying things from what they've heard, I understand that. But to put houses behind, you know, something that you're deliberately trying to hurt me there. So, you know, that's a bummer. Yeah. You know, it's too bad.

Yeah. Just, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if they just don't like somebody else getting shine or what the, what the motive is. But, you know, when you talk about elk, and I remember, you know, when this started coming out and your bull was getting all this attention and people were coming up with all these crazy things, I just know. I know, again, it's secondhand, but I know how you hunt. I know how passionate you are about bow hunting. So all this negativity I was reading, I was just like, there's no fucking way.

There's no way Casey Brooks, there's no way this is true. And so I think I did a little podcast and I just said that, you know, said something about, no, I, you know, Casey has been doing this for so long. There's no way he would risk anything, anything other than just doing it perfectly right on a bowl like this, especially just because you know it's going to be scrutinized. But even if it was that five, that 265 by five, you're still not going to take shortcuts. No way. far from from my perspective just knowing what I know of you and um so that's why I was like I kind of

went public and just saying I don't know I I got Casey's back on this one until till something else I don't know what but well that was that was frustrating for me too it is frustrating and my dad told me a long time ago my father was a school teacher in Portland public schools and he's a smart guy And dad told me a long time ago, he says, anything you do, if you do it wrong, it's going to taint everything that you've ever done. So I just do my best, you know, absolutely, to make sure that, you know, everything's right.

Yeah, yeah. And like when we talk about elk too is, because wherever this elk was at one point, I just know how much country elk cover. I mean, I've heard you talk about how I think there's a bull in the Starkey experimental forest, and it made its way something like 70 miles to your property. Is that right?

Yeah, we had a bull that I tried to get him for years. I would try and get my family members, my sister or my wife, to shoot him. He didn't have second points. And that's the worst thing you can ever see show up, you know, in your area because he's going to keep putting those genes out, right? And finally, I whacked him. And I think he was eight years old. He gross scored 256.

He still didn't have those second points. Yeah. But what he did have is a round little ear tag, metal Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife Ear tag. And he had moved like 70 something, 80 miles, whatever. And he ended up, of course, he couldn't end up 20 miles away. He has to end up on our place. And to this day, we got bulls without second points there now.

So breeding all those cows. Oh, good Lord. Yeah. Yeah. But so, yeah, the point is 70 miles he traveled from where he was tagged. And it's just like, so people will say, well, I don't care, or I would say, I don't care where this bull was photographed at one time, that has nothing to do with where he lived and how he, you know, where he carried on and where he was killed and everything else. So it's like,

these things cover country. Oh, they cover a lot of country. Yeah. And, you know, people claimed he was a town bowl. They said he was a golf course bull and they said all these things. If this bull was a town bowl, like the Estes Park split fifth bull. Yeah. Most famous bowl out there right now, that bull's getting a million pictures of him a year. I've said, does I killed a bull sort of like that. I've seen so many. Yeah. So to your point is there'd be a million pictures out there instead of what are there a handful of your bowl. Yeah. I've seen four. Four. Yeah. And you know what? He got heavy pressure where, you know, that lion and then then those guys pushing him around, he got heavy pressure where he's got to go somewhere. Yeah. So he went and and you know,

I guess I'd say this. And I've got a place in Oregon and three rivers. on late Billy Chinook and I used to feed the deer right outside you know I'm just inside from the public and I'd feed the deer because it's fun to see the doze

and the buck's rotten in the yard and all that and finally I just came to me one day so why am I doing this I shouldn't feed here and just let them do their thing because then they'll end up out on the public

where a hunter can hunt them or whatever and if a buck was on my place and he ends up over there on the other side and he's on the public and get shot no big deal it is what it is That's the way it goes.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, we know that a bull like that is going to get all the attention. And I'm just curious. I think, God, that reminded me something else. You said something at the beginning of the podcast about how you respect these guys who've been out there, been in a two-man tent for days and just, you know, you know what it takes. You know, you've killed, you said you've killed all 29, right, North American.

29, yeah. So to do that. to do to hunt every species in North America successfully in the mounds you know obviously a lot of them are in the mounds a lot of them are remote a lot of them just take so much so it's really hard to to criticize somebody who's done that but because you know what it takes you know the sacrifice it takes it's what has what why do you have that drive to do stuff like that what where did that come from I mean I'm just curious about your mindset because what is it? I mean, what makes you want to do what you do? Well, I'm ADD and my wife says that ADD, people with ADD or ADHD can be very hyper-focused. And that's me when it comes to

this. I'm absolutely focused, no detail. I'm very detailed oriented. And I don't, I don't take shortcuts if you know what I'm saying. Everything I do I mean I've had guides try and sleep in before and boy you want to see Casey have a meltdown sometimes you have to have a guide to get on certain places to hunt right right yeah and now I'm having to put up with the guy sleeping in you know so he gets his assude it's like hey I'm not here to play around I'm here to hunt let's you know all we got to do is get up and you know be ready and so I just don't like taking shortcuts I like I get a plan of my head and I stick with it. And even if I'm hunting with a young guy that hasn't hunted as much as I have, I bounce ideas off these young guys and say, this is what I'm thinking. What are you thinking?

Because he might have something in his mind so that I'm not thinking about. It's always a good idea to bounce off your buddies. Yeah. You know, that way you can you can say, hey, I didn't think about that. Right. Right. Yeah. I try to do that too. I mean, I think we get, you know, both you and I grew up on our own doing, you know, I loved that I didn't have to double check with anybody on what I want to do. I could, I didn't have to go back. I could stay out as long as I want. I didn't have to convince anybody like, hey, let's try this. So when you come, when you grow up with that mindset, it is really hard to change into like now you have to, you said you had to get guided to get on some of these places. Sure. It is really hard to change from that guy, that independent solo,

whatever it takes to get it done to now, now of a sudden there's rules. Right. And it's, and now a sudden you got another human, you have to convince, like, this is a good idea. Oh, yeah. That's, that was, that's the hardest. I got fired from Eastman's and kicked off places so many times because I'm just like, I just want to hunt. Right. Just let me go.

Well, how many jobs did you quit? Because September's here. It's like, hey, yeah, I got to go. It's time to migrate, you know. So to me, once you get past that, like, when you're just going, like, if I would just go to the Eagle Cat by myself, I could just do that whenever I want. But once you get to like another level, like now all of a sudden there's, yeah, this is, there's giant bulls here, but here's how we manage it. That's such a big change, isn't it?

Oh, it's huge. Oh, it's huge. And, you know, we've been blessed to be in the position where we can go hunt those kind of places. But, you know, there's another added layer of pressure that people don't understand. You're hunting stone sheep, for instance, or you're hunting or you're hunting a big elk spot, you know, that's unbelievable. You draw blood, you're done. You paddle bone that bullet's over. I mean, that's a lot of pressure on you, you know,

to make sure that you make a good, you know, good shot. So, you know, it's a totally different world. I just love to hunt. I prefer to go on my own with my friends, but sometimes I go on guided hunts because that's the only way I can get the tag, you know. Yeah. What's been, like, what's been your tough,

of the 29, what's been your toughest bow hunt? What was that toughest tag to fill? One of the, I'd say one of, I'll tell you what my favorite was, okay? Out of the 29, I had a black tail. We used to have a place in Boring, Oregon. I lived in Boring, and I knew where there was a big buck. And I hunted him for two years. And for the folks that hunt white tails, they wouldn't understand this until they hunted

black tails, but two years, I had two daylight photos of this buck. That's all I had. They're so nocturnal. Yeah. They don't have to go anywhere. They can live in a 10-acre spot. They've got food. They've got water.

They don't have to come out. And I hunted him for two years. And I was so disappointed the first year when I didn't get him because I thought he was like 130, you know, beautiful four-point. Yeah, that's a big buck. He had long eye guards and just a great buck. The next year, a buck showed up on camera. And I said, oh, he went downhill.

He's like 125, maybe. I said he went downhill. And so I went hunting. I was running around hunting elk and everything, not paying attention to anything. And I came back and I checked my camera. It was a different buck. He was like 159 the next year.

59. 159. And I stuck with that buck every day until. And it was luck. I'm not going to lie. I went and checked the camera. I was using cuddybacks. And I opened up the cutty back, pulled the card out,

put another card in, closed it, and very quietly closed it, but it still went snap. And it sounded like two tines hitting together. And I had lost this buck for about four or five days. He'd, you know, probably locked down on those or whatever. I hadn't seen him. Yeah. Next thing, you know, up on the hill, I could hear, and I looked up the hill. And I could see those eye guards and a white face looking right at me, you know.

And I said, he's alive. Here he is. And here he comes. And he's coming down. And he's coming down. And, okay, I'm looking ahead. and I've got an arrow knocked and I'm looking ahead and I said 35 35 35 and then he turns he didn't come into my shoot lane and there was a little hump like this that was kind of right here and so I just dropped down on my knees and as he came he turned and came up over that hump he was at full draw 10 yards and he put out the brakes and I shot him straight on and he went 20 yards and piled up so you're just on the ground did you have a tree stand there you just oh yeah there was one up there but I didn't use it well now I I can't say it and use it.

I used it once. And for once, finally, a big black tail is coming in. Everything's looking good. I can hear him grunting down there and he's chasing a dough. Everything's looking good. This is back when we had flip phones, right? Yeah. And I thought I turned it off.

Oh, no. My dad calls me. You know, obviously that didn't work out very well. No, no. Okay. No. So 159 is that buck? Gross 159.

netted in the 140s, yeah. I think I remember a picture of that book. Beautiful deer, double throat patching. And, you know, if you haven't hunted black tails, you know, they're unbelievably beautiful deer and they eat really, they're wonderful eating. It's just great. Yeah, I just love that late, late season archery, you know, blacktail rutting. Man, there's nothing like it.

Oh, it's seen those big, yeah, there's nothing like a big black tail. When you grew up in Western Oregon, then this is all you think about. Yeah. It's like you'd hear about these big bucks. somebody killed or saw a big dark horn thing and it's like I was obsessed with Blacktail for years. Yeah. Yeah. They're a lot of fun.

You know, and you used to be able to go, they'd have a Wollamette tag and you could get a 615 Wollamette tag and an 815 and a general tag. So you'd have three tags in one year possibly. Oh, I killed two bucks a year for a while until they changed that. Yeah, yeah, it was good while it lasted. But I think that, you know, the numbers aren't what they were. So they probably got it knocked back down to one or something now, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah. I was just thinking about something, too. It got distracted as I was listening. But the negativity or the BS that you had to deal with with killing that bull, did it ever make you think that it wasn't worth it? It wasn't worth it to do it? No. So it's like, because you can just write it off like those guys just don't know what the

they're talking about. Or is it just because that success? is always going to breed jealousy. And so you're just used to that. Like I say, I got pretty thick skin. I've got some thin spots. But I've got pretty thick skin and I understand where they're coming from. I mean, you know, we all want to see things, you know, done right.

I've seen things in the past and I've called it out, you know, to my hunting partners that said something doesn't look right. And the next year the guy gets busted for, you know, shooting them with rifle during both season. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, I mean, that kind of crap is. what, you know, there's, there's always going to be people bitching about something. Right. And it's

okay. And to your point, some of it is valid. Because if like if you've had, you knew like something doesn't feel right, then, you know, it was verified because of that guy got caught poaching. So I guess some people, you would understand like, okay, I get it because this person did that and that's why your perspective is tainted a little bit. Right. But yeah. I mean, I just, it's just so frustrating because I know I've never killed anything like that. But I mean, shit, I killed a spike bowl my first year and I had people talking shit about me. Oh, good Lord.

Yeah. So it's like in my little small town, nobody's just killing stuff with a bow. So it seemed like whatever. I mean, so I understand how it works. And I've, I don't think I've ever, I mean, I don't know. I don't think I've ever, like wished I wasn't successful. But it's just, it just sucks because you work so hard. It's all you care about.

And then all of a sudden you're looking at people criticizing after you just blood, sweat, and tears. That still gets frustrating a little bit to me. Oh, I hunted every day of September last year somewhere. Okay. And I hunted Oregon, Washington, Nevada, and New Mexico. And it was rough in Nevada and New Mexico. I did not shoot an elk in either one of those states. And that's not normal.

You know, I mean, towards the end, I'll shoot a nice bowl and go home. Yeah. And it didn't happen. year. So Oregon, five-point bull, I was ready when that bull, first bull came in. I called him in, wide-open sagebrush, 50 yards, shot, and he ducked and the air went right over him. And I said, string ducking thing, you know. Well, then the five-point came up and I said, that was a bad move. Yeah, especially right. I know that anytime I've screwed up or something happened, the next animal, look out. You're looking to make it right now.

Oh, I did. I was open for business on that one. Yeah. 40 yards, you know, whack. Okay, well, I guess. Yeah. That's good. You go. Nice bowl, beautiful bowl.

Yeah. So, I don't know. You're going to hear all kinds of things. I can just promise you it was not shot in someone's driveway. You know, I've seen pictures of guys on the internet sitting in trash cans, you know, pretending like they're hunting out of trash cans. I didn't sit in a playhouse. I didn't, there's none of that stuff.

Yeah. There's a lot of people claiming things that absolutely are 100% false. So don't believe, I just say don't believe everything you read. It's, you know. Yeah. It is what it is. Yeah, no, I, I just, you know, I'm just curious. So you've killed 12 bowls over 400, which seems, I mean, I went most of my life without

ever seeing a 400 inch bowl. For sure. I mean, still, even seeing one. And I talked to somebody at, yeah, I mean, that had been hunting San Carlos at the rifle for a number of years. And this year they killed like a 437, but had never until then. So it was just like even at the best places with a rifle, just killing a 400 is not easy.

And for you to do it with a bow 12 times, what is, I mean, obviously the area, but, and I guess passing up, you know, know, giant bulls, because we said you pass up a 400 to kill a 450-some. So what is your superpower for killing big bulls? I mean, how can you kill 12, 400? Well, this is where you and I, we might differ a little bit. Okay. I need to be a little more like you, and you need to be a little more like me in our style.

So my elk call is my lethal weapon. Okay. And I believe every bull can be called in. Okay. That's what I believe. Every bull, but maybe not, sometime in the season, every bowl can be called in. Now, giant bulls, I like hunting them early. Okay, so early September from about the seventh to the, about the fifth to the 11th or 12th, they're very vulnerable.

That's a good time. They're just starting to come in and a few cow calls and that bowl's going to come check you out. Once they get hurted up, it's a little more. difficult. Right. And I've shot lots of bulls out of 100, 150 elk, you know, and you got to let all these bulls, you know, filtered through until you get the one. Yeah. It's pretty tough. Yeah. When you, when you got a hundred sets of eyes laying there. Oh, yeah. And you slide into 30 yards of the closest cow and you're screaming at that bull. And, you know, he's bedded and finally gets pissed off enough that here he comes, you know, I mean, it can happen. But more often than not,

the wind swirls and one cow bus you and it's over. So, yeah. Is, uh, so, so, Yeah, every bull could be called. So you're saying like before they're cowed up, when they're on their own, when they're kind of cruising around. It's a good time. Getting everything figured out about what bulls wear, what cows where, just the area. And they're starting to feel the rut. That's the time. I'll just tell you this.

And it was taught to me by Bill Lancaster was a big, Lancaster was a big houndsman. Around, you know, the third of September, the fourth, fifth, you'll be hunting in an area. and you'll notice these ridges, you'll start seeing lone bull tracks walking on these ridges. You're out here in Oregon anywhere. You'll notice lone bull tracks just cutting out and going out through there.

Not a cow with them, nothing. That's a great time. They're starting to troll. They're breaking away from all the other bulls, you know, that they've been with all summer, and they're lining out going looking for cows. Yeah. And, you know, that's why I'm not big on scouting or anything for elk.

It's really kind of funny. everyone's all excited to go spend money on fuel and all this stuff. You scout that bull here today during the rut. He might be 16 miles away. So, you know, I just go out with my help call and start calling bulls in. And when I see the one I want to whack him. And that is a hell of a decision to make when they're at 30 yards turning the corner. And he go, okay, yeah, he looks good.

You know, and if he doesn't look good, or you think he doesn't look good and you let him walk. And then I'm a little slow on doing math. And then I go, oh, wait, he was good. So I call him back in again, you know. I mean, yeah. How are you calling a minute? Like, do you have a certain sequence or is just like whatever you're feeling? Do you start with a cow call and then go to a bugle?

What do you do? Always start with calcalls. That's what I always start with. I never pull up to, like if I was at the coast hunting Roosevelt's, driving around at night with my GPS marking locations where I'm getting bulls. Yeah. I would never start with a bugle. I always calcall.

Okay. Even at night. At night. Anytime. Okay. And I've got an office. odd setup that I use. I use diaphragms for calls,

for cal calls. But I use the thing called the deep timber sounds, Dan Clor. Do you remember that out called? Dan Clor used to be at all the shows. And it's basically it's a PVC mouthpiece that you put a key in it and turn it and you pull it apart, you put a

finger caught over it, slide it back together, put a dial in it, cut it, cut it again in a different direction, and then rip the excess out. And then you plug that into your call and it's yeah it's unbelievable the look you can locate so far with that thing and sound just carries better incredible yeah yeah i mean way out there and if i if i pull up anywhere where there's bulls are going to answer it if you cal call with that thing they're going to answer or if you're like bow and you can cal call super loud if you want to bow's got a lot more control with

the diaphragm than i do yeah you know well it so i just want to back up real quick so when you said at night. So that's what some people do. People who don't elk hunt might not know that that's a tactic is you go out at night. You're not hunting. You're just locating bulls. So you know if you if you call into this canyon and you hear two bulls going, you're like, okay, I got a place to go in the morning. So it's mostly and then you can identify, you know, sometimes the size of the bull based occasionally on on how it sounds, how deep it is. But that's what that's a good tactic is if guys are having trouble or just need to find elk, go out at night. Because the elk. are more likely to be calling when they're comfortable when it's dark and they're more active.

Absolutely. You can sleep later. You know, I mean, we all love to sleep. And as you get older, the good news is you don't need as much of it, right? So I get up at 3.30, 4 o'clock, whatever, 4.30 every day. I slept in this morning at 5.30. I was like, wow, that really felt good. You know, but, you know, if you're having problems, fine and bulls because it's too hot, a lot of times at night, it cools down a lot. And you can just, you know, need your both. You know, you don't need anything. All you need for me, what I like is a GPS because you've got to mark these locations. Just run around and use XMaps, you know, and just run around, mark all these spots where you're hearing bulls with a certain color. And then, you know, red hot, man, you got a bull right

here. This is a bull that he's acting. Every time I call, he's answering. That's a bull I want to go after because if he's rip into a cow call every time I answer, he's likely going to come in. He's prime. Do you, I mean, are you listening to that sound of the bull? Like how deep it is? Do you ever put... I never pay any attention to the... Okay. You know, how, you know, if he's a... You know, those are the ones I always want to go to,

but I get in there and they're just five points. You know what I mean? I know. And then I've had some that just... And then you walk in there and it's a 410 bowl. Right. So I look at every bowl no matter what. Gotcha.

So it just depends on how he's answering. If I've got 10 bowls that I've found, you know, driving around for a few hours at night, I, you know, I'll know which one is the one that I want to hear, you know, or want to go to, you know, That one is, what do you guys think? Let's go try this bowl first. And what we do is we get in on that bowl.

We park and we're in there in the dark way ahead of time. And everybody else is just waking up and we've got to, you know, we're ahead of these guys already. But in the old days, you could park on one of those gates or you could park on a clear cutter, you could park on a spot. And people come up there and they'd see and they'd drive away. Now they just park right next to your rig and walk right past you, you know. So it happens. I did. I remember there was this place I'd go up here just out of Marcoa where I grew up. And all I wanted to do is not go to the end of the road to the landing. Just park back. Just so let's not, let's not wear a deer hunting. Let's not just drive to the landing, right? So I parked back and I parked in the middle of the road. Somebody's so mad. They got up. I was out there hunting. I could hear gunshots going out of my truck. They were so mad. They wanted to drive to that landing so bad just to be able to look over. And I'm like,

just park where I parked and walk out there. It's fine. But yeah, people get, I don't know, it's definitely, I don't know, it's changed a little bit. People get excited about being on to drive everywhere. We used to do some tricks. You get a bunch of guys that just driving past your rig or walking past you, they don't care.

We put a tent up right there, and then we put a camp there. And we stopped by that camp every day and leave a couple cans laying around in camp and then leave a light on. and next time they come back, they're like, well, there's a camp there. We're not going to go there. Those guys are already in there.

There you go. We're not there. You leave it for a week. And man, you come back and these bowls are just ripping everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you do what you got to do, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Your story on the call and like that Dan, what was this?

Dan Clore, deep timber sound. Deep timber sounds. It's a very difficult call to learn, but it's unbelievable. That is the reason why that reminded me of a story. with Jose down at San Carlos this year. He was guiding. And he must have guided you before. Kind of a bigger dude.

But he said like you'd go out in the morning and you'd be doing that with the call. Right. It's like it wouldn't sound right. And then you start over again. Just getting that call perfectly right. But that's, to me, that's just a sign of how serious you take this stuff. You know, it's just like all the little things. What's going to give you the edge?

It's going to the edge. it's going to be that perfect sound. Right. Or it's going to be you have confidence in that perfect sound. So now you're hunting better because you're like, no, I'm doing everything right. And when this works out, I'm going to be ready. But it's like that approach. And when you even talk about, so expand on that.

But even when you talk about like when you're out there and you find this lone bull track just hitting ridges, to me, that's another level of woodsmanship that a lot of people who bohunt don't have. Like just being so dialed in on the. country where you're picking up one lone bull track and and deciphering what that means. Sure, absolutely. So where'd that woodsmanship come from? Well, it comes from hanging with guys like Bill Lancaster. You know, it comes from guys, that's not something that I would have done before Bill taught me that, you know. I mean, I'm out there listening to Beagles walking just focused on that. Now when I'm walking, I'm focused on it, but I'm also looking, okay, there's a rub right there. Okay. And then you come to a spot where it's a dirt spot and then you can

on a ridge and you see if these bulls are traveling it and you know moving through there and paying attention to that stuff. I'm not a track guy. I'm not a houndsman by any means, but I know just enough to get me by. And, you know, we talked about that before, you know, a little while ago I was saying

that I need a little more like you in me because I call everything. Even when the bulls get to the point where they're to the point where they don't want, they're screaming, but they don't want to be called. That's when I need to show. up and slide in there and shoot him and that's and that's what you like to do yeah yeah yeah i think your reference was or maybe it was on this i don't maybe you heard or maybe you didn't but i said earlier

i don't the the giant giant bowls i think i think i said something like you're not going to call those in which i should never say i heard that i should i should never say a blanket statement so that's my bad but i'm sure that i get that that's probably what you're referencing because what i said is like you can call in bulls. Yes. But like a bull like that, I thought if I was hunting that bull, I wouldn't call. Because in my head, I'd be like, he's seen everything, he's heard everything. I don't want to screw it up.

So maybe that's it. When I see him, I look at him and say, you know, he's seen everything. He's heard everything, but he hasn't heard me, you know. And I'm going to have that confidence. I'm going to give him some of that sweet, sweet talk and he's going to come in here. Right. Sometimes you'll hook up and leave the other way. I guess I wasn't so sweet, sweet, sweet today, you know.

Yeah, I assume that's what you're referring to. But yeah, I've always been like, man, if I can get in there without them ever knowing I'm there, that's what I like. I mean, as a bow hunter, that's what I would. But then, hey, I'm also an opportunist. Like, if you can call them in, I don't care. Call them in. Let's kill them. Let's just get them killed.

But even like that bowl there, I had never really sat water before. And this bowl is coming into water and I'm like, I don't really care. I mean, I like to run and gun, but I'm just here to hunt. I'm just here to hunt. Do you want to run and gun? It's like that bull, this bull right here. I could have went out there and maybe got onto his tracks and then followed him back into his bed, had him stand up at 40 or 50 or 60 yards and tried to whack him in with this bad

shoulder or I can get him to come to me and get a 20-yard shot that I know that I'm going to be massively effective on before this wreck there's no problem 50 60 yards or 40 yards I prefer to shoot bowls at 30 max 40 yards but you know um you know it's one of those deals that I think a waterhole you're setting yourself up for a really nice shot and it's a patience game I mean I hunt coos deer every year and I hunted this year for 25 days for coos deer and if it's 80 degrees outside it's 125 degrees in that blind year's sweating like Bruce Jenner on the operating table I mean it's horrible yeah so you know you know it's a different type of hunting Caitlin oh yeah there we go we got it straightened out now that's right so anyway it's it's one of those deals where yeah

sitting there and having sweat dripping off you like you're in a sauna for the day is not so fun, but when the buck comes into water or whatever and he's 20 yards, then it's fine. Yeah. You know, do what you got to do. Yeah. That's how I looked at it too when I was sitting there and, you know, you hear this bull coming off the ridge and, you know, you're wondering about the wind, but you're so high up. So you got a little leeway there and the bull comes into the water. You're like, this isn't like my favorite way to hunt, but.

Sure. But it is what it is. You've got a. But there he is. You've got a. monster bull there to show for it. So good on you, man. You had the patience to wait it out.

Some people can't do that. I think that that's also like when you, when, you know, for decades of bow hunting, I think you figure out, like where you're, where the best odds are. Like what approach. So it's like you don't get married to anyone or I don't get married to anyone approach. I'm just like, no, we're just to see what happens. I know what I like to do. Sure.

maybe that's not going to work here absolutely yeah and that's yeah that's the good news about what at least your mind goes to that spot when the bulls aren't working for me with the calling sometimes I just keep calling and maybe like I said the best thing to do is just shut up

slide in there and get tight to the herd Randy Olmer loves to do that you and Randy both hunt that way Randy's another legend I should have mentioned him earlier when I talked about at the very beginning the people who I looked up to because Randy's always been.

Oh, yeah. And I know you're close friends with Randy, but as far as bow hunting goes, oh, my, he's such a legend. Oh, he's the man. Yeah. Yep. And, you know,

and guys that you talk about that are not super famous, you know, that guys that are just unbelievable killers, Darren Collins is a, is probably the best bowhunter I've ever been with in the woods. Oh, good Lord, that guy.

Oh, he's a predator. And a lot of people listening to this won't know who Darren Collins is. Look him up. He's almost got his second Super Slam with a bow. And he's the whole reason I shot my Super Slam. I said, Darren, I said, I probably should do it. You know, he was number seven to shoot his first Super Slam.

And he's about three animals away on his next one, three or four on his second super slam. Man, that's incredible. That's a lot of traveling, a lot of time, you know. Yeah. It's a, and these guys, and I don't want to take anything away from anybody, but these guys are just pure bow hunters. You know, it's just bow only.

Oh, he'll die with a bow in his hand. He would, you know, to his, you know, and this is the kind of guy he is and this is the kind of guy I am. I will bow hunt until I can't bow hunt anymore. And if I can still make it into camp with a wheelchair, that's where you'll find me. And I'll be telling these young people, this is where I'd check and this is what I would do. And hopefully there'll be enough respect there that they'll listen to me and go try it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one thing, you know, some of these hunts that you go on or that I go on or anybody goes on, but like when you get like a governor's, I've never had a governor's tag. But if you buy like a, say a landowner tag, it's any weapon, right? So I want to get your perspective on this. I know there's some people who bow hunt, maybe make a poor shot, get out the rifle, finish it off with the rifle, this of that. Me, I would.

It's always bow. I always got to finish with the bow. Sure. I had one where it went sideways and it's like the guide shot it with the gun up in Alaska. I didn't have any control over that. But the point was is if I think back on my, this bow hunting journey,

the amount that I've learned from, if I make a poor shot on an animal or it's not going the way I want, that I've learned from where some people would pick up a gun and go, and maybe get that animal finished with the gun. But what I've learned on those blood trails from,

no, I'm with my bow, it's going to get done with my bow, from that blood trailing to when I get the animal killed with the bow, I've learned probably as much or more than I've learned up to that point. It's like those critical moments because, and maybe this isn't making sense to anybody else, but where you're so focused and so kind of distraught because you're like, you want to get this, you want to be merciful,

you want to get this animal killed. So it's like so much intention, so much effort, so much just focuses on, okay, blood, blood. Oh, I jumped him. How is he acting? What do I need to do to get this thing killed?

But it's like you learn so much in those high intensity, pressure and all these emotions involved in that experience of blood trailing to killing. It's, I think only somebody like you, would understand what I'm saying. Or if you do.

Oh, I understand what you're saying. And another thing you've got to think about that I've noticed is your blood trail in this animal. And it's amazing where they will take you. They take you into spots that you go like this and you look around and there's rubs everywhere and you're like, man, we normally don't end up in his bedroom like this. I didn't know this was in here. There's a wallow over there.

There's rubs everywhere. That's what I say. I've learned so much. It teaches you a lot, doesn't it? If you open your eyes. Yeah. And so if I would have like, I think of things, like maybe it jumped him one time and maybe it could have downed him with a rifle right there. And I get people who will say, well, wouldn't that be a quicker death for the animal?

And I, and I maybe in some ways, but some ways that rifle shot and people screw up that shot. So maybe that gets the animal's adrenaline going more. Maybe it's even more suffering if it's a poor shot with a rifle because shit's blown apart. whereas, you know, a bow is sometimes they don't even know they've been shot type thing. But the amount that I've learned just during the course of that blood trail and what an a wounded animal will do or where it will take you to your point. It's like, that's made me, that's made me the type of bow hunter I am as much as the perfect shots and success I've had.

Yep. When just that blood trailing part. Oh, yeah. When we talk about being a woodsman. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. It's like, do you know how many animals you've killed with a bow?

Would you have any idea? No. You don't have any bowls? 86. 86. Is it goal 100? Sure, sure. Just keep going.

Well, if I quit hitting snow plows, I might get to 100. Yeah. How insane is that, though? 86 bowls. It'll take me about three, four more years and I'll be there. That's got to be the most. I don't know if it is or not, but it's my goal. Yeah.

Yeah, that's, that's incredible. And I'd like to shoot a bull in every state that offers them. That'd be kind of fun, wouldn't it? Yeah. Well, how many more states? So Pennsylvania, probably. I haven't done Pennsylvania yet. Kentucky has some.

You haven't done that. Wait, yeah, I did. I shot one in Kentucky. Oh, did you? Yeah. Okay. So how many states do you got? Do you know?

I don't. Oh. No, I shot them in Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, Montana, Nevada. I've killed bulls and British Columbia. Columbia, Kentucky. I don't know. I'm sure I'm missing something.

But I haven't killed one in Wyoming. Really? And I've never got one in New Mexico. Oh, okay. So a couple right there that I'm kind of slacking in. Low-hanging fruit ones. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's, well, I'm curious.

So when was a, I mean, it must be, your dad must have been obsessed with Big Bulls too, right? Because didn't he start hunting White Mountain or San Carlos? Yes. Before you did or at the same time? In 1995, dad decided that he was going to go to White Mountain. And he got into Maverick camp, which is one of the camps that you really,

back then wanted to get into. That's where George Strait and all these guys would go, would be Maverick camp. And just so it's White Mountain Apache Reservation. So these are like Indian reservations that for whatever reason, just for different circumstances, management, habitat, winters, everything, grow the biggest,

in the world. So White Mountain and San Carlos are across a river from each other. So just for context, White Mountain Apache Reservation. That's where 95 is where you guys went. Absolutely. And I'll never forget that hunt because we, you know, we went in there and I went with dad. I didn't hunt. I just called for dad. And Daniel Parker was his guide and Daniel's such a sweet guy, great guy. And Daniel let me call. And I said, do you mind if I call? And he says, no, go for you? Yeah, you're good to go. So I'd call everywhere, and I would call in on average about eight bowls a day in the bow range, and let alone rifle range, you know, lots of bulls to rifle range. Was your dad rifle hunting?

Yeah, he's rifle hunting. Yeah, he had it, probably is 270 back then. You know, to this day, he hunts with a 270. He doesn't do the long range stuff. He just, you know, he wants to shoot. Long range for him is 300 yards, right? Yeah. So I'll never forget this.

We were coming out. Dad shot about a 360 bull, and we're coming out of there. and I've been gone for a long time. I mean, this is, you know, coming up on five weeks that I've been gone or something from my wife, you know, is coming, you know, we've been married a year or whatever. And it's time to go home, check in with my wife. And we're driving out of there.

And it's like 70 miles of gravel just to get to town. Yeah. And we're flying across there. And dad looks up and he says, here comes the director. He says, I've got to talk to him. He says, dad, we got a 24-hour drive here. Let's hammer down. He's like, no, no, we've got to talk to the district.

director and I says okay so I pulled over I know he's not going to take no for an answer I pull over director pulls over is this director official wildlife yes yeah okay and he goes up to camp and he and he's bringing the clients up in there stuff so yeah I you know when I play golf in high school and and and little did I know this this client was a pretty special guy and so I have my window down I don't want to make eye contact with the client or anything I just want to get this over with so we can we can hammer down because I've got my, you know, mindset. We're going for a long drive here and I'm going to be up all night. Right.

I see the client out of my eye. I see him get out. He's going to come look at the bull, right? He comes walking across there. I got my window down. My arm's sitting outside the thing. Comes up, hits me in the shoulder and says, how you doing? Jack Nicholas.

Oh, man. Jack, Nicholas, the golfer comes. Hey, Jack, how the hell you've been? Want to talk about the bull? Yeah, yeah. Now you got it all the time in the world. Oh, yeah, dad. Take your time, Dad.

We shared a camp with Jack for several years. Really? Yep. And I'll never forget the first night we ever shared in a cabin the next year we were in camp. And dad says, Jack and his son was right there. And they had two beds over there. We had two beds here in this cabin. And he says, Jack, he says, I snore at night.

If I do, just throw a pillow over here and I'll roll over and quit. So I'm sleeping in the middle of the night. And whack, I get hit with a shoe. And I woke up the next day and I says, Jack, I says, you may be a hell of a golfer, but you're a shitty shot with a shoe. He says, you were snoring. He said that to you? He said it to me.

Oh, okay. And he says, I don't snore. And he says, yes, you do. Yeah. Jack was a wonderful guy. Was he? Oh, he still is. You know, I'm sure.

Kill some good bulls? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He loved it. He was a bow hunter too. Really? Yeah, he bow hunted.

Yep. He was killing bulls out of the bow, huh? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. He loved it. Yeah. Just a gentleman, though.

Yeah. Oh, so nice. You know, just a wonderful guy, very approachable. Yeah, just fun. Steve Bass, somewhere, a friend of mine, has a video of me trying to teach him how to call elk. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, he sounded like an elephant that was getting a, you know, yeah. Inima? Yeah, it was bad. He would go, and then he would laugh so hard he couldn't stop. Oh, we loved to. If you had that video somewhere, that'd be awesome. Yeah, I got to talk to Steve Bass. And if Steve listens to this, Steve,

if you got that video and want to get it from you. There you go. Yeah, that's a great story. So that was your first, was that your first, like, premium big bowl hunt or, like, area where you could potentially see a 400? Yeah, I would think so. Yeah, I'd say so, you know, and I have hunted public land spots where later in life, after, you know, passing up tons of 300 to 320 bulls on the res, you know, looking for a 350 or 60 bull, and then possibly seeing one that was 400 or whatever, 380s.

80. On public land, then I understood what I was looking at. And I remember going way deep in Idaho one time with my hunting partner. We were on a horrible mountain up in there. And we'd walked up up this thing. It was pretty steep. But I was young, you know, and got up in there and this bull screaming and out he comes. You know, he's coming to our calls and everything's looking good. And Michael, my hunting partner, looks up there and he says, look at that white mountain looking bull. And I looked up there and I'd have shot that bull Opening day on White Mountain

or San Carlos. Yeah, he was like a 3.30 6 point but off his second right above his second he had an extra main beam that had it went up and it forked and it forked again

so he had 70 inches on that extra main beam there. Whoa. And I told Michael that was I was 97. I got my first bull that was over 400 so Michael

it might have been 98. I told Michael I said you're up. I said I've killed a 400 bull you get out there in front of me. And I called that bull in, and something wasn't quite right. And he comes over and he's talking to me. He says, what do you got?

You know, and he comes over. And I said, he's right there. He's 45 yards breaking a tree. You know, and he looks at it's real thick. And he says, I think we can get him to that spot right there. And I says, Michael, the wind was wrong over there. And he says, I think we can do it. So I said, okay, so get up there.

And so he gets over there and I move around. And I call that bull in. The cow walks 20 yards in front of him. the bull steps out, his head comes out, and he says, uh-uh, he backed back out and went to Montana and I says, I think we need to back out and give this bull a break. Let's just back out and he'll be ready to go when we come back. Let's go to Montana. What an idiot. I left that bull and went to Montana. The first day in Montana and CM Russell out in the public, I called a six-point bull in shot it. the second day

I snuck up on 180-something inch buck and didn't get him killed the third day I shot an antelope and then Michael saw what was happening he's like oh he's going to leave me and go back and kill that big bull

so Michael shot a spike he shot an antelope and then we flew out of there and we drove like we stole it to get back to Idaho and we never found that bull again oh dang oh I should have stayed there yeah he was probably not far knowing what I know now I would tear the country up

until I found him. Find him, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's within a few miles of there, I'm sure. Was that Michael Parks? Yeah, Michael Park. Okay. He's killed a lot.

60. Yep, I think he's killed. I think 60. And he's a son. He's a hunting son of a gun. He is on elk. Elkin deer, he's deadly. Yeah.

Blacktail deer are his thing, and then elk. And see, that's another guy who like the general public might be like, oh, not sure of, such a killer. Oh, and you're talking about a guy

that shares Christmas trees. You know, I mean, we would go back in the day on Central Bering Ground caribou hunts, we'd book the whole camp and we'd fill it with all of our own people, you know, friends and family. And Michael would go shear trees until his shoulder was about to fall off

to have the extra $2,800 to buy a tag, you know, by the two tags, I think it was, to hunt Central Beringrown. And then, you know, an airplane ticket to get up there, he would do it. So a lot of times folks say that it's not possible, you know, on, I mean, looking at it now, back when he was making money, you know, doing Christmas tree, he was at poverty level. Yeah. But he still found a way to make it happen. Yeah. It was, it's choices. Yeah. You know, there's always a way.

It's like, how bad do you want it? That's right. Yeah. That's right. It's, uh, yeah, I mean, it's really easy to say, it must be nice. I got that on right. It's perfect right behind your bowl. be nice yeah see on the wall back oh I see it but and it is nice yeah oh god I can imagine but it's easy for people to say that too um I'm curious uh so growing up like for me Roy got me into bow hunting and I bow hunting with Wayne um not really bow hunted that much to Wayne after that but he's always owned the bow rack and was always such my bows were always like ready right you know I mean If I did my part, I knew the bow was going to perform.

So the bow rack has been a great resource. But Roy got me started. Who, like, who was that person in your life when you started? Or did you just learn the hard way on your own? Well, I lived, I was raised in Portland, Oregon, below the Glendivir Golf Course. And I was hell on wheels. Man, we used to shoot our bows in the backyard, hit golf balls in the backyard with drivers. And then you'd hear them hit a house like five houses down.

I mean, you know, yeah, and we ran that neighborhood. I mean, we were just on fire. And, you know, I learned I was shooting stick bows when I was young. And then I'll never forget the first compound bow I ever held my hand and shot it. And if you can believe that, I have a friend that still owns that bow and he's going to give it to me. Really? Yeah, it's a bare white tail and it has, you know, four wheels on it, you know. So he's got that.

But it was a bare polar LTD. I don't think it was a white tail. I think it's polar LTV. So anyway, he's got that bow and he's, and it's, it's in perfect shape. He's never used it. So I told him, I said, I'll give you one of my hoits for it. So I'm going to trade him.

There you go. One of my bows for his bow. And we used to shoot in the backyard. And I just, one year told Dad, I don't want to go rifle hunting. I want to go bow hunting. And I didn't get anything the first year that I bow hunted. But the next year or two down the road, I got a spike buck. And I was hooked.

man once that happened I was I just couldn't get enough of it I would count the days down to when you know when that season was going to start I would honestly get a calendar and mark out the days I couldn't wait so it was just you out just you you were your own driver

like you were just like no this is all I care about I'm obsessed then who would would you hunt by yourself or would somebody no I go with a friend you know there was I had two neighbors neighbor boys that love to shoot bows with me and we go together to the Ocho Coes, for instance, you know, and then go hunt deer.

And back then we were just talking about this the other day. Back then you could see 20 bucks a day or whatever, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a buck in there now. Oh, I, you know, I mean, when I killed that buck in the Steens in 91, Roy and I went on a scouting trip for July 4th, I think it was, to go over there to the Steens. And we saw so many bucks over four-point or bigger. Yeah.

It just probably 40 bucks. Oh, yeah. And now, man, I don't even know what you'd see. I know. It's tough. It's definitely changed. But yeah, it's a, that just being obsessed with it and just being out is, man, there's no better way to learn. There's not.

You know, and I don't know if you remember back in the day there was Larry Sporting Goods in or, and that was in our country up in Oregon City. It was Larry Sporting Goods and it turned to fishermen or whatever. marine supply. I went in there and I applied for a job in the archery department so I could learn about bows and arrows. And I didn't get the job. And so I went to Chuck Lind, Wendy Lindy archery was in Clackamas. And I went to Chuck, he used to run it out of his home. And I said, Chuck, after I picked my arrows up or whatever it was, I says, Chuck, I want to learn about archery. And I says, I'll do anything. If you ever have any work, please let me know. And Chuck says, hold it a second. Casey, ran in and says, hey, Tony, Casey wants to fletch arrows or wants some work.

Can we have him fletch some arrows? And she said yes. And so I started my job fletching arrows with Chuck Lind. And then eventually I ran his archery shop. And I learned a lot about bow hunting and people and calls and life. You know, Chuck Lynn, you know, I mean, he's a man of his word. And that was one of the things I learned from Chuck. Chuck always says, if you don't have your word, you don't have anything.

So, you know, just a great guy. I saw Chuck this weekend. He's 85, probably 85 years old. And he would hunt with like the legends of our sport. Like I remember. Larry D. Jones. Yes, yeah. They went to Kodiak or Prince of Wales, I think.

Oh, yeah. Chuck would hunt with, you know, people that are legends to me, Jim Pontiano, you know, Jim's out of our country there and great guy. Of course, Larry Jones, Dwight Shue, who is a friend of Chuck. I mean, Chuck knows a lot of people. Yeah. And most know him pretty well. Yeah.

You know, a lot of, if you ask Chuck Adams, you know, about Chuck, Chuck Lynn, he'll know who he is. Right. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Chuck is, you know, he's one of my idols of bow hunting. He's, you know, he's just Chuck Lynn, Wendy Lindy, he's awesome. Yeah.

He's one of those guys that you look up to. Right. Well, I think like, you know, so that's kind of respecting the history of what we do. I think that's an important part of. of bow hunting is knowing the tradition, knowing these names and how, and you said you learned about people and you learned, you probably heard stories from them.

And so as a young man, you're learning how to navigate this world. It was like, what is an epic hunt? What is like a hard hunter? What makes this guy special? Hearing all that is so valuable for a young man. Oh, for sure. It's, you know, and you talk about going over

the Ocho Coz. It reminds me my son was over. here the other night. And he was saying he kind of wants to, you know, hunt the wilderness or, you know, reading all the old stuff, like backcountry bow hunting and things like that. And he's like, he's like, dad, he goes, you know, he goes, I know a lot of people who hunt. And he goes, and I know people who, you know, talk about the wilderness. He's like, I still don't know anybody who goes into the wilderness every year and kills bulls.

I go, no, it's hard. It's really hard. And I told him, I'm like, I have a whole chapter in my book about fear because I remember my first time I was back there by myself. And it's like, we're so used to being around people and around. It's like when you're in the mounds and say, we looked how far back I was hunting like this 12 miles, this and that. And I said, when you're laying on that ridge just by yourself at night. And everybody's used to talking tough and having these big stories. But when you're by yourself for the first time, that's intimately.

So now, now, like, when people go back to the wilderness, it's usually about how far from camp, do I have water, do I have food? Am I going to stay dry, this or that? And hunting is like way down, like killing something is way down on the list. And I said, that's why you don't hear about people going in the wilderness every year and killing big bulls with their bow. Because there's a lot to overcome. Oh.

And I mean, the work begins. You're 12 miles in. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Now are we going to get this thing out of here? Exactly, yeah. Yeah, there's lots of talk about that too because, you know, I had this Packer Barry Cox and how that worked with if I'd kill, how I'd get a hold of them or how I'd get a bull out.

But so much goes into, but when you come up and that's how you came up, like you would just go to the Ochoquos, that's where you learn. It's like where I think people, these young guys are missing. They get distracted by all these BS stories about your bull or this or that or this guy hunts this place or must be nice to do that. It's like, guys. you're missing the point. Here's how you do it.

Here's what it takes. Don't skip over all the lessons that you could learn. Like when you were a young man from Chuck, you know, Wendy Lindy, it's like guys, I think are skipping over these opportunities to learn. Sure. Because they're too distracted by the shiny object of a giant bull. Right.

It's like, once you talk to these legends and see what you can pick up. Well, I would think, you know, another thing that's made me pretty successful in bow hunting is I learned from my mistakes. Not everybody analyzes things and figures out what they've done wrong. Sometimes people repeat those mistakes and wonder why they never shoot anything. So, you know, try and figure out these things that you're, you know, you're going along, you're making a mistake, you know, you're making mistakes, figure out why that didn't work. And then just try and do your best and not make that happen again, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. How have you, how do you think you've changed as a bowhunter over the years? Like when you were that kid packing in the Ocho Coast to now, what? You know, when I was young, like when you were young, probably about the same time, you were going in deep, you know, into there. I was going into some places. I can remember having a backpack on. I had a three burner Coleman stove on that backpack.

Three burner Coleman stove. Oh, yeah. You lift up the lid. Oh, yeah. I mean, my pack was that tall. You know, like the Grinch, you know. I mean, that thing weighed 100 pounds, you know, and we get to the top of the mountain and there's not a damn deer on the mountain. Yeah.

We got a hell of a picture up there of us together up there with our bows, but no deer. You know, I was packing gallons of water and my buddy was with me was drinking the water is my water. He's out of his water. Now he's drinking my water. Making my pack lighter, though. Yeah, that's good news. Yeah. But, you know, I think that I'm hunting smarter now.

I won't go into those kind of places anymore. I mean, my knees are shot, my back shot, and I'm almost 60. And how old are you? I'm 57. Oh yeah, wait until you're my age. Good Lord. Yeah. So, you know, I've been as about as successful of an elk bow hunter as most.

Anybody could ever dream about, you know, who could dream of having that many at-bats with elk, you know. And I've kind of figured out that some of these wilderness spots are getting hammered so bad by these young guys that the stuff that's before the parking lot is not too shabby. Yeah. You know, because these guys are going in a few miles and they're bumping those elk around and, you know, a lot of times, the bulls are down there below the wilderness just right below it, you know, and those are the kind of places I check. And I can tell you this, most of the big bulls that I've killed have been with an earshot of a pickup. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. That's how lazy I am. Well, no. I mean, to me, that's just you get smarter on take advantage of opportunity or where that opportunity is going to happen. It's like, I think people get something in their head and they're like, no, this is what I envision. So it has to happen this way.

And just being, I don't know, like more fluid in your approach. Like, well, I plan on going way back here, but there's bulls right here. Yeah. Why are we stepping over bulls to go find bulls? Yeah. We don't want to leave bulls to go find them. I've made that mistake. Unless we've checked every one of those bulls the night before.

Yeah. You know, and then you know that there's two or three bulls down there and you already been in that little spot. We'll go check some new ones. But I really, I honestly, I don't get as far from the road as I used to, you know, for a number of reasons. You know, but one being, if I kill a bull, if I don't have a buddy with me, I'm going to pack him out and, you know, my back's pretty shot. Yeah.

So, you know, I want it. Got to make good decisions. Yeah, I want it closer than farther. Yeah. It's, I don't know. I just think that just decades of bow hunting, just, I don't know. I mean, we learn so much out there. And it's life changing essentially.

But when you look back on it, like, I can't imagine you looking back on all these bowls, these 86 bowl, 86, right? 86. I don't want to steal one from you. You're right. 86 and just like because when you talk about I can remember every hunt and so many critical points to every like if I look at any animal I've killed here I can remember that so the memories you have that enrich your life that also impact your stories or or how you interact with people it's like all

goes into who we are we are bow hunters but that bleeds into everything because it's like it's such a hard endeavor when you talk about those nights where you you pack that three burner stove it's like you remember all that you're like man I was clueless but how much did you learn during these decades oh yeah and another thing that that I've said many times no matter how far I walk in if I go deep in there which is deep for me and it's not as deep for you you know but if if I go in there you know a couple miles three miles four miles whatever it is you know we make a seven mile hunt we come back to the I'm never upset with myself when I get back to the truck. I've never been on a hunt where I went and shot something and packed it all the way back.

And as hard as it is, when you get back to the truck, you always feel good about it. If not better. It's like, I mean, I hurt. Yeah. But, you know, I killed a ram a couple years ago. And I rode my bike in, my bicycle into where these Rams were. And we went in a few miles, you know. And mine was a pedal bike.

My buddies was an electric pedal bike. Right. Mine was a pedal bike. That's different. Yeah. And this ram, there was a ram that was in there that was one I'd seen before. And somebody called me and said, Casey heard you got the tag. And I said, yeah, I got a tag.

And they said, where are you going? And I said, this is where I'm going. And the guy says, well, we've got the governor's tag. And we're going to go to the same spot, probably on the same ram. And we're using a rifle. And I said, oh, great. So now I got a little competition. So I go in there at daylight, I'm standing on those Rams.

You know, I rode in there with my bike and I'm ready to go. And these Rams are all separated. They're all around me. And I didn't think in September they'd be button heads like that. But wham, they hit like that and it scared me. And I jumped a little bit. And one of them looked like this because it caught the movement. And they all ran up this draw.

And I said, darn it. you know, now I got to go after him again. So I went, I rode my bike all the way up the mountain and worked my way around. And I was sliding down the hill. And I could see them in this draw over there. And I was sliding down the hill just real slow. And I got to the bottom and I got, my phone buzzed. And I looked at it.

Someone said, someone said that that governor's tag shot a ram. And it was the ram I was after. And boy, was I pissed. I was, I was so upset. I, you know, I had all these plans to kill that ram. Yeah. And they got it. Yeah.

And so I'm kicking rocks and walking out of there just like a little baby. And I said, well, I better check these Rams because I'm, you know, they're right here. Yeah. And I was sitting there and they started feeding towards me. And one of them appears right above me. And I shot this ram and he goes down there and tumbles down a slide. And my buddy rides up and finds me and we put this thing, you know, this whole sheet, We get it all on there.

We rode out of there and crashed, I don't know how many times, you know, having all the sheet meat and everything. A lot of weight. Oh, falling over, crashing. And we got all the way out of that place. And then we got a ride from there all the way around to our truck. Steve, Steve was already puking because it was 90 degrees, you know. And, of course, I was giving him shit about puking. And then I started puking.

And when I got to the truck and I was sick all night. Yeah. Even as rough as that was, I still loved it, you know, and still felt good about it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I don't know why. God smiled on me that day. But the governor tag ram was like, was like 177.5 California big horn sheet.

Mine was 178.5. So I'm kicking rocks going out of there. Piscas, she shot the biggest ram. and I shot one because I was bad, and it was bigger than the one that she shot. Oh, man. So once again, I'd rather be lucky than good. Yeah, that's the way it works out sometimes.

That's great. Yeah. Well, that reminds me, too, it's like, no, looking back, I mean, one of the most successful bow hunters ever, what advice would you have to young bow hunters coming up right now? I would say be considerate of other hunters. if your father didn't raise you to be that person,

then try and be that person that you know that you should be. If you pull up to a landing or a place and you see other hunters there, just ask them where they're going. And if they're not going down there, if they're going over there, then maybe go over there. You know, give people their space and just, I know it's hard because there's so many hunters in the woods right now. but just treat people the way you want to be treated.

That's what I would say. We're all hunters. We all need to stick together. That's what I would say. I think it's just a good, you know, make the world a better place for all of us. Yeah. You know? No, I mean, we got enough to overcome as hunters.

Oh, good Lord. I mean, we got the, you know, we got 95% of the country to overcome. We're 5% that hunt, probably generously. But so we have enough to overcome already. We don't need to be fighting each other. That's probably the most frustrating part for me is seeing that we're a small group. We both love the, love the same thing

and we're trying to tear each other down. Absolutely. And I don't know. You know, 95% of those people that are out there tearing either one of us down. If they ever spend a week with us hunting elk, we'd have a blast. Oh, yeah.

You know, we'd be lifelong friends afterwards, I'm sure. You know, I'm saying, I'm sure that the people that are that are talking shit on the internet are probably really good people. It's just, you know, for whatever reason, they're just, you know, they've heard some bad things and saying some bad things. I'm sure they're good people. Yeah. So, you know, if they could just, you know, if we could all just stick together and, you know, be considerate of other people when you're hunting and just be that guy that, you know, you want to be. treated this way so treat people that same way i think it i think it works out in the end yeah i uh i think just giving people the benefit of the doubt goes a long way it's like it's really easy to go right to

like your assumption but how about just you know what let's give let's just assume everything was you know went went right this guy worked his ass off and got if you do that then usually works out a lot better than when you just go straight to negativity oh for sure yeah yeah yep yep absolutely um So as far as like for new bow hunters getting into the sport, because right now we have made bow hunting pretty cool. I mean, it's not just me and you, just the industry or this time and place. It's like bow hunting.

We've always known as badass. We've always loved the challenge of it, but a lot of other people are realizing it too now. So for a new bow hunter, what's the key to you think for them having a positive, successful journey? You know, I really don't know. That's a good question. What led you to most of your success?

Persistence. Just being out there. Yep. Screwing up, learning. That's it. Tenacity, is that what it is called? Yeah. Being tenacious or whatever.

Yeah, that goes a long way. Do not give up. Yeah. Yeah, stick with it. You know. I know I had a lot of failures when I first started. That's what bow hunting is. Yeah.

It's a lot of failures. But when you finally, it does come together for you, man, a life doesn't feel good. Nothing better. No. Life changing. Yeah. So just being out there, what about, now I know when you talk about your equipment,

I think you have like what a good fixed blade head, a pretty like moderate weight, weighted arrow, good penetration, and then about what, 65, 70 pounds pulling back? 65, yeah. And that, for whatever reason that gets in and get those animals killed, it's just enough, huh? Unbelievable. Yeah. So I shoot 29 inches is my draw. I'm shooting a 28 and a half inch arrow, 450 grains,

true glow titanium 100 or Rocky Mountain titanium 100. Same broadhead. I think they're owned by new archery products now. It's a super good fixed head. I've shot everything in North America with that setup. I've probably shot 13 mousse. I bet I've shot a dozen mousse with that setup probably. I think I can only think of one that I didn't shoot with that setup.

I get fabulous penetration. So super sharp rodhead. Yeah. You know, good weight, 450. Yeah. And 65 pounds. The thing that these young folks don't understand is when you and I were hunting in the 80s, these bows, you know, when I was running that archery shop,

everybody that brought a bow in was 90 pounds. Yeah. And there were bows that were up to 125 pounds. Yeah. And so we'd be pulling those bows back there, you know, and working on those bows. I'm on an airplane now flying from one place the other. My shoulders are falling asleep. Yeah.

You know, the new bows deliver energy, you know, like no other. They do. And they're so efficient. I have no reason to shoot above 65 pounds for what I'm doing. Yeah. Anything in North America. If you go to Africa and you're going to hunt some dangerous game, you better pump her up for sure. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. And if I was to say anything, I would say, you know, in here I got you shoot 90 plus, but I would say save your shoulders. You know, it's not necessary unless you really, and that's your jam, and you got to do what you got to do. Well, I always get obsessed with, so you can hear me out on this one. But if the animals, I just don't know what that animal is going to do when that arrow is on the way or hits. So if you say that, yeah, perfectly broadside, shoulder forward, it's going to blow through. That's if you hit it perfect.

What if I catch that shoulder blade or what if he hits and he's moving right at the same time like they do? Right, right. And maybe that maybe as I'm not saying 65 because of you, but maybe that it glances and skips off the shoulder blade where maybe mine would have caught that edge and pushed through. Sure. You know what I mean? So it's like I'm always get obsessed with just like, well, Well, what if? What is your, what is your, how heavy is your arrow?

It's 491. 491. How long is it? It's 27.5. Okay. Yeah. And that's, see, that's tough. How long is you draw?

It's like 27.5. Yeah. Yeah. So you don't have a big long power stroke. I mean, you're kind of screwed. No. You know, you get a guy like Tim White, my hunting partner. He's got a, you know, 30 and a half inch draw.

Oh, yeah. He can pump that bow. way down there, you know. And still get just the energy I have. That's it. Same amount. You know, my cousin Alfredo's 27 and a quarter or 27 and a half. He's, you know, he's going to shoot heavier pounded to try and make up for, you know.

That's all it's been for me is I had that short draw length, which. Yeah. So I either had to shoot, you know, a heavy or a lighter arrow, which I didn't want to take energy away. No. Because that's less kinetic energy. I'd get the speed, but speed doesn't mean shit, really. Right.

So I wanted kind of a heavier arrow and to get the pinnesty. penetration potential I wanted, I had to shoot heavy poundage. Sure, sure. No, I understand. Yeah, especially with your draw length. But, you know, I was told a long time ago, there's only a few people that can drive a race car at 200 miles an hour. And the same thing goes with a bow. I mean, you get that thing shooting 300, you know, feet per second.

It gets critical. Yeah. Okay. And when you're sitting there and you're holding on a big buck or a big bull, you know, and everything's shaky and, you know, I want to shoot about two. 180 feet per second. Me too. I want to have a little more weight and slow it down.

Yeah. That's what I think 280 is like the perfect speed. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Perfect speed. And it's like with that arrow like that arrow, we're not lightweight. We're not crazy heavy weight. But at 280 at that weight with the sharp broadhead, I want to show you broadhead real quick.

Sounds good. Hold on. Can I grab this thing? I got something for you. Can I grab it and put it on the table? I know what that is. You know what that is. You don't know what it is, though.

Oh, really? You do, but this one's a special one. Okay, okay. Well, you mentioned, what was that head you mentioned? Rocky Mountain Titania 100. Didn't you buy like a bunch of them or something? Well, I mean, yeah. What about this one?

Have you ever seen that one? I know a guy I met this weekend that shoots these heads. Really? And he can't get them. And I told him, I says, I will go home and go through all my stuff. And if I find some, I'll send them to you. That was a great head too. Yeah.

That thing, that little blitz? Look at that. I mean, how did you just go right to that? Well, because I have a whole, I bought, just like you did, I bought a ton of those. Did you really? Yeah, because they were going to, I don't know if they stopped, I think they stopped making it. Oh, yeah. And then I bought like dozens.

Yep. Because that twist, I mean, Mosey Trocar kind of came up with something similar. Uh-huh. But, yeah, that head, this blitz from Rocky Mountain, man, tough to beat. Well, Randy Omer originally told me with the titaniums, he says, he says, Rocky Mountain. and called me and he says they want me to you know they're going to send me some heads and he says yeah go ahead and send me some heads so they sent him the titanium 100 no 125 and randy said you know i'll shoot your head you know go ahead and send it over he takes it outside and he shoots it into a cinder block

and it held together yeah and randy goes wow and randy shot those and then i started shooting the 100s and then wasn't long after that i was shooting for rocky mountain back in the day and they sold a They sold to the people who don't rage. Oh, Faradine. Feel logic or whatever it was. They sold to the owners of rage and they discontinued that broadhead. So I called a distributor friend of mine. I says I'll take 50 dozen if you can find them.

Those were great heads. Well, I got to hide those for my kid. Yeah. I mean, you know, those things are great heads. They are. But I got a hidden stash, man. My son, he's horribly. He'll shoot those things at grouse or anything, you know?

It's like, what are you wasting those for? No, you can't. That's gold. Oh, it is. Yeah. This is what I started bow hunting with pretty much. Well, not with the feathers. That's a new archery products.

Yeah, that's the old. Thunderhead 1-25. But that shaft is like a 21-14, way too light. It made your bow sound like a. Oh, firecracker. Yeah, 22 going off. Yeah. But yeah, that big old heavy, or big old, not heavy.

It was light. I don't even know how those things. flew out of a 90-pound bow. Yeah. No, that's a good-looking setup right there. Yeah. I like it. That used to be what it'd be.

But, you know, it seems like, I don't know if heads aren't quite as good these days or if people have went away from fixed. And maybe it's because I just don't know how you could beat like those Rocky Mountain, those old Rocky Mountain titaniums or these. It's just like, how do you beat those? No, they, you can't. I mean, in my mind, when I find something I like, I stick with it. Yeah.

And for all the listeners out there, anybody that's got ACC 371s, if you want to sell them, get a hold of cam, I need them. So. Those were good shouts. They were really good. And they're small. Yeah, they're nice size. They just, they were very durable. When you'd shoot one and, you know, break it or bend it or do something after you shot an animal, you take that thing and you go like this to snap it.

And it just shakes you. I mean, I mean, it takes a lot to break it. Stout. So anyway, when I find something I like, I try and buy a bunch of it because I don't like change. So I can get any Hoyt that they send me. I can set it up double quick. And I don't set bows up anymore because I did it enough working in Chuck shop that I got sick of it. Henry Bass is a professional archer that lives on my farm.

Henry's a good friend of mine. And Henry lives up front. If I want anything done, I say, Henry, there's a new bow on the porch. Run up there and get it. And if he can't find it, he'll go in the house. and go get everything out of my house and go back there and set it up. And then I come home and then we play with it a little bit

and it just takes very little because I'm shooting the same setup every time. So it doesn't take long. Do you like, well, because the way we grew up with those long bows, do you shoot a longer? I do. Yeah, because they make down to 28 inches or something. I'd like the longer.

But right now it's like 33 is a sure. That bow is getting long. Yeah, that's 33. And that's supposedly. long. Now this year I think they went down to 32. But the 33 shoot like a 36 used to. Yeah, right. Right. With that cam how it rolls up. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I like the longer bow. I like the taller brace height. I don't, you know, I like the heavier arrow. It's just for hunting, it just seems like that's the way to go. I like how they self-level. I mean, the longer bows. I just, you know, they just self-level good.

I just love the way they feel. I do have some bows that are short. for hunting out of blinds. So if I'm hunting coos deer or hunting turkeys or whatever, then I like the little shorter axle axle. Because I can tell you right now, you draw down on a giant mule deer or whatever, and if you lean into your hole and you're blind, and if you shoot and that cam hits that roof,

oh, not good. It is not a good thing. Blinds are tough. I hadn't hunted out of blinds very much since I've been going down to Texas. And it's just so much different with, or if I'm sitting there, my elbow hits the back wall. Oh, God, drives me. crazy. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's a it's a great tactic. Yeah, I like the longer bows. I just,

man, it's so hard to get, as you said, to get away from things that have always worked in the past. Absolutely. So Wayne did talk me into switching and trying grim reapers. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The carnifor. And I'm like, well, I'll try them on deer, but I don't think of, I don't think elk. And now I've switched on everything. But I do shoot that kind of heavier arrow. at heavy poundage. Yeah. If it was light poundage, it would have to be like, I mean, this blade angle, you know, like back in the day they had that, it's not very steep.

So consequently it penetrates because it goes gradual, so it penetrates very well. Whereas even these old blitz, that's a pretty steep blade angle on those things. Yeah, that's, to me, that's a mini head. Yeah. You know, there's, what's that, an inch and a 16th looking at it or something? Inche and an 8th. Is it an inch and 8th? Yeah.

Yeah. But it gets their, it gets their quick. That's a steep, steep angle. Well, I made the mistake. Well, I didn't make the mistake, but I did kill a Cape Buffalo with something similar to that. I think it was the trocar. But a guy I was there with killed a hippo. And I'm like, well, I want to do a little penetration test.

This is basically, because it's so steep, it's like just shooting in that wall when you shoot a hippo. Right. You need a broadhead probably, you know. Oh, sure. One of those really gradual, long broadheads that would just go in there and penetrate. because the steep ones, no. Not on a hippo. Yeah.

That's a whole different world there. That is. Crazy. Well, what do you got there? What's my present? Well, I brought you something. As you know, Bo, my son. Yeah, he's a legend, isn't he, in the calling arena?

Two-time world champion. Wow. Riven is his and the company he works for it. It's their baby. So this is his business. That's the Cambian. He owns, you know, part of it. Yeah.

It's a small part of it. But the Cambium elk tube is the tube that I use, and I adapt that mouthpiece to that tube. Oh, man. And this one's custom. Whoa. This is like a piece of art. It is. It's absolutely, the sound is untouched by anything I've ever used.

And there's absolutely, you know. Look out. Here, I mean, take this off. When Beau, when Beau came out. with this. I was testing this stuff with him, okay? Yeah. So I'm using my old call that I've always carried around. Bo had one of these things, and I get a bull to light up. And I mean, bulls, I know what it takes to get a bull to bugle, right? I mean, I've been around the block. This bull would not go, and he would go, and he would go, and then he wouldn't go. About every

fourth time he would answer for me. He'd answer Boe every single time that he'd go. Really? Every time. So Bo says to me, he says, Dad, pop your mouthpiece out and put it into this. So I pull the mouthpiece out and I put it into this call. And that wood, he would answer me every single time that I called that. Just a different tone or? It's just like Randy Homer said. I said, Randy, you're not going to believe this. But Boe made a wood outcall, a bugle.

And I can't tell you how unbelievable it sounds. And Randy thinks about it for a second. He's so smart. And he says, Casey, you ever hear of a plastic violin? And I said, no. The tone quality in the wood is hands down better than plastic. That's got to be hands down. That makes perfect sense.

And if I had my mouthpiece, I would show you, you know, but I'm telling you, they are unbelievable. Do they all come with this cool little? No. This is mine. Storm, yeah. Yeah, they do that. They run a select, you know, a select few, you know, for people, you know, they've done, they'll do a short run of them. But I got one for you and one for Joe Rogan.

bow sent them. Oh, that's awesome. And they're both red. We'll see if we can get you a slip cover to go over it. Another thing that, you know, people worry about these things. I can't take this in the woods. Yeah, you can. What are you talking about?

Use it. What the hell? This has to go on the wall. Look at this. I know, it's beautiful. This is, this, like art. It is so pretty. It is.

But I use vet wrap on mine. So my wife's a team roper and we have horses. Vet wrap. you just wrap that thing with vet wrap. You can go down and get it at Wilco or anywhere, and then it protects it. Okay? Another thing is Bo also has the leather,

there's a piece of leather that goes over the middle of it, and I'll get you and Joe, I'll get you guys the leather that goes over it as well. I think that even, you know, like even when you are hunting, if this is hitting something, way better than plastic. Like this is hitting wood on wood

isn't going to alarm anything. No. And I, you know, that's what I like about the vet wrap. It kind of protects it. And it makes it quieter. Yeah, muffles it a little bit. And never in a million years could you have ever got me to pack any kind of a tube of helps or anything. Because it's just so big compared to what I'm used to.

Right. After I got used to using that call, I won't leave home without it. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's. That makes, that violin analogy makes perfect sense. It's unbelievable. It really is. And of course, Randy would have to come up with that.

Yeah, he would. Because he is so smart. He is. He's a smart guy. I will say, Randy, I've always looked up to him too. It's just like, man, it's such an icon in the industry and bow hunting, just the bucks and bulls he's killed consistently. And just his shooting, it's just a machine.

Oh, he's so focused. I mean, hyper-focused. He's amazing. Yeah. Absolutely. And he's just a wonderful guy, very approachable. You know, I think of those guys. You go to a show.

ATA, whatever. Think about all the guys that are there that are approachable. Those are the people that, you know, those are the people that we've got to look up to in this business because we're in a dying sport. Travis T. Bone Turner, you can walk up. I don't care who you are, and he will have a conversation with you.

And that's what life's about. Yeah. You know, you've got to take time for everybody. And, you know, I could have dropped that bowl off at the show and left it and not sat around there. but I wanted to sit around and talk with people. Yeah. You know, when the kids come up, I'd hold that bowl up

and let the kids come get in between me and get a picture of the kids with the world record, you know? That's amazing. And, you know, guys would come up in a wheelchair or whatever. I'd open the front of that booth up and then let them come in and put their hands on it and feel it. And, you know, that's what it's all about. Well, they won't forget that either.

That's your point, I think. You should like that time you spent and that opportunity they had to talk about that bowl. Absolutely. They'll never forget it. It's the world, it's not yet. It's pending world record elk. You know, it beats the current world record by 32 inches or something.

So I think we're pretty safe to say that we're looking good. And once it gets in my house, kids are not likely going to have a chance to get up there and get a picture taken. So, you know, I just want to share it with people and let them smile and get their picture taken and enjoy it. Yeah, no, it's a, and you mentioned Travis, too. to such a man, such a great guy, big-hearted, just everybody loves Travis. And when you talk about archery ambassadors, that's who we need. And that's kind of the point you're making. It's just like, yeah, what we do is amazing.

And we've got to talk about it. We've got to share it. You know, we've got to just tell people what is great about bow hunting. And Travis does a good job. Randy's always did such a great writer. all these people that were influential on us coming up. That's what they did. That's what they were so good at.

That's why we gravitated to this. It's like, man, I want to be like that. Yeah. I want to be like that guy. Oh, yeah. That's how I was anyway. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

We had some good people to look up to. Boy, when we were growing up, we had some monster, you know, guys that were just right in this area. Well, elk fever video. Oh. I don't know how many times. Wear it out. Oh, I watched it. it so many times.

It start to get, like the lines and start to come in because I've watched it so many times. Knew every line, like the pine cones in the boots and, you know, hit a branch. I remember Steve Jones hit a branch on one bowl and, you know, Larry and Dwight, you know, playing jokes on each other. Yeah, it's just like that. I couldn't remember that like it was yesterday and that was back in the late 80s. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Some of the first guys to do it. Wayne Carlton, you know, just passed. Yeah, he did. And Wayne was, you know, Big. You know, I mean, that's, he was a big part of where I'm at today with my calling and hunting. Yeah. Larry D. Jones, huge part of my calling. I mean, these guys, you know, I was buying their calls when I was a young man and running around there and driving people crazy. But call, call, call, call, call, call, call, call, but that's what it takes, you know.

Yeah. Excession. Oh, yeah. Drive yourself nuts in the car, but, you know, whatever it takes. Yeah. You know, whatever it takes. Well, I want to thank Bo. Bo Brooks, your son is doing a great job. You said two-time champion of L-Col, RMEF, L-Calling. And Bo, thank you very much. I mean, and that post you made about your dad, and I know we talked about this earlier, but that as being a dad and seeing a son have those type of feelings and put them out publicly, I mean, respect, Bo. And thank you for this. This is incredible. And thank you for bringing it Casey. I'm going to get Joe's to him also. And I told Joe you were coming on the podcast. Cool.

Oh, I sent him that video of what was that, the hot stuff? Yeah, little chiltapine peppers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's, I don't know, I just feel, I feel so lucky to be able to sit and talk bo hunting with you. Sure. And it's, I don't know, could do this all day. But it's like there's some people who, you know, Wayne's like.

this, these people that have been along in this journey with us for bow hunting for decades. And it's just like, I don't know, life is so special and these memories that we have and these times that we, you know, me sitting to talk to about the world record bull with you, it's, this is a day I'll never forget. Yeah. And it means so much to me, Casey. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it.

The crazy things that we've done through our lives for hunting, those things that you look back on and and and those are the memories you just never you'll never forget them you know and I don't know I can think back to things that that we did when we were young we thought we were just absolute idiots for doing them and they stick into your brain and then other things you know I can't even remember what I did yesterday but some of these boll hunt memories they go back forever and and years ago we were hunting central bare and ground caribou Michael Park and I and we weren't having a lot of luck finding caribou. And a guy comes flying in with a helicopter into the camp.

It's real remote out there, you know, and he knew the owner of the camp, and he came in to get a Coke. And we said, did you see any caribou when he flew in? He says, oh, I did. I saw some caribou, you know, and they were, you know, six miles that way on an island. And we thought about that for a day or two, you know.

And I looked at Michael, says, we're not flying caribou anywhere. Maybe we need to go look at this island. Well, six miles, if you've never been in the Northwest Territories, you can't go in a straight line because there's a lake right there. And then you got to go this way and this way. So it doubles real fast. We walked in there with our, you've got to take a boat, go over, pull it over into another lake. You know, pull it into another lake.

And then you've got to walk, walk, walk, walk, walk. We walk all the way in there. Michael had never shot a central barren ground caribou for her. And I said, there's three caribou right there, go shoot one. So Michael goes up and shoots a bull, and it jumps in the lake. And we get it fished out of the lake and Michael starts processing it. And I mean, he's been around a lot of animals. Yeah.

And I looked at him and says, you're good to go. I'm going to go over here and check this island and see what it looks like about getting onto this island. Michael starts field quartering this bull and he's processing this bull. We get over to the island and it's deep and it's cold water. And it's, but there's cariboo on it. I can see him. So I says, well, let's turn around here.

Let's go back to Michael that we had a guide with. this. We went back to Michael. We loaded that caribou, all that meat, and we carried it all the way back, got all the way back to camp. And we pulled our shoes off that night, and we were all blistered up real bad. But all we can think about, this is how young and stupid we were. All we could think about was that island. So the outfitter says, I got a queen-size air mattress. And I said, there you go. That'll float. We took that air mattress. We let all the air out of it. He had a little foot pump. We put that on our backs and we went and made the same trip with all them blisters the next day. And we went all the way in there. We sat on the shore. The guy got up

on the mountain up there. Michael and I are sitting down there and I'm pumping this thing up. Yeah. We got it to where she'd float real good. Put our backpacks on there. Put our bows on there and we laid on there. And then we started swimming for the island. How far across was it? Oh, a couple hundred yards. Yeah. Yeah. We made it across there, shot a caribou. and the wind starts kicking up. Yeah, not good. Yeah, but we made it out of there. And, you know, it's that kind of stuff that those are the memories that you'll just never forget.

Yeah. Michael Park was, I mean, we were trash. That first day did it to us. I mean, our boots were not the right boots. Right. To be walking that far. Our feet were shot. You know, your mind just tells you those caribou are there.

It's more powerful than, you know, then, you know, anyway. It's that kind of stuff. Those are the memories I'm going to have to live with because I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm beyond that point. Well, you got some good ones in the meantime to fall back on. Yeah, absolutely. That's a little bonus story for you guys after the podcast is over. So, yeah, I mean, to your point, we could do this all day.

You know, I mean, you're taking the time to talk to a guy like me. I just appreciate it. Oh, man. No, I've been looking forward to this. my wife was talking to me today. She's like, when did you guys first, when were we talking about this? I'm like, I don't know, months ago was finally happening today. And yeah, it's like, we've been talking about doing this and we wanted to get that, you know,

make sure you had enough time to do all you needed to do. And that bull had to get scored officially. And now we got, now we know where we're at. And God, what an honor to have that, such an incredible animal. And, you know, the glory goes to that animal. It's like, it grew. 490 inches of antler. And what a species.

Oh, yeah. And, you know, there's going to be guys that say that he grew that because he lived in someone's yard. That's not the truth. He was in the national forest. Yeah. He grew that with what Mother Nature put out there. That's what he did. Yeah.

It's amazing that that many groceries, you know, natural stuff, you know, that was provided. Yeah. And he grew all that in one year. And what was he, do you think last year? I think he was about 440 something last year. God, he put on 50 inches. He did. He did.

Look at those two points in the bottom. I mean, one of them's 16. I mean, you know, I mean, there's 25 inches right there in the bottom. Yeah, he's unbelievable. It's like I said, when I walked out to your pickup and saw that, those antlers in the back, it's like, you know, that's always a joke. Like, you know, took up the whole back of the pickup. Right.

You know, back in the day, you'd see a bull driving down it's like, oh, it's giant. That bull, it's like the antlers did fill up, like even every little. It's a small truck, but yeah. But it's just so much antler piled in there. Just incredible. I'll never forget that moment. I'll never, well, so many things of today, but I'll never forget that moment walking out there and looking at that pickup and being like, that's incredible. It didn't hit the string.

That's good. That is good. We know where we can get it fixed. Yeah, right. Which is where I'm going next. I think when we're down here, I'm going to go down to the bow rack. I've never been there. Isn't that wild?

That I live three hours from here and I've never been to the bow rack. Oh, and Wayne's going to be so pumped because he, you know, he, I don't know, have you guys been friends a long time? Long time. Yeah. I know he really looks up to you. And, you know, we love talking about you and your success. And, you know, us Pacific Northwest guys got to stick together. For sure.

Well, you know, and that's why I'm here today. you know, the way I've treated you in the past and you still took the time to back me, I appreciate it very much. And that's why I'm here today. I want you to do this. I want to get the story out there. I want people to know what really happened. And I just, I want you to tell the story because you were good enough and kind enough to

have my back. So, you know, I appreciate it very much. Well, that means a lot to me. as I said, I've looked up to you for decades and just having you here. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I've been criticized a lot over the year, so I just know what it's like. And when I was reading some of that BS, I was just like, those guys. Yeah. I got, I got Casey's back.

So it means a lot that you, I know other people wanted to hear the story from you and approach you about it. And it means so much to me that you'd come on to my podcast and share this and we could talk bow hunting, just look, look each other, you know, cross a table and just be like, just talk about what we love. Sure. I'm very grateful. Yeah. Well, like we say, we could do this all day.

I mean, there's a lot of bow hunting memories between, you know, all the years here. How many years you've been bo hunting? 36. Yeah, long time. Yeah. Long time. And that's not, that's not just, you know, like a weekend in a year. I mean, that's a lot of bow hunting.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. We wouldn't be who we are without boeing. Nope. Absolutely not. I don't know what I'd be, but it wouldn't be good probably. No, no. Well, Casey, thank you very much. I appreciate the time.

My pleasure. Yeah, amazing bowl. I'm so happy for you. And I hope guys like this podcast. I'm very grateful that you came here and shared your story. Yeah, I really appreciate you having me. All right. Thanks a much. Keep hammering, guys.