Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 124 - Ways2Well: Brigham Buhler & Danese Rexroad

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Join us for a conversation with Brigham Buhler, founder and CEO of Ways2Well and co-founder of ReviveRx Pharmacy & Danese Rexroad, a nurse practitioner at Ways2Well. Brigham and Danese will be covering practices done at Ways2Well such as stem cells, peptide therapy and hormone optimization. Ways2Well pairs powerful bloodwork analysis with expert care and personalized protocols to help you reach peak health. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Learn more about Ways2Well: https://ways2well.com/  Follow Ways2Well: https://www.instagram.com/ways2well/  Thank you to our sponsors: Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Timestamps: 00:00:00  Why Stem Cells Help Cam’s Performance 00:06:13  Where the Stem Cells Come From? 00:08:23  Ivermectin & Recovery Process After Surgery 00:10:55  Brigham and Danese Credentials: How They Started Ways2Well 00:15:12  Saving Lives: Today’s Sick & Broken Lifestyles 00:21:09  Where to Start: Choosing Healthier Foods & Habits 00:27:43  Ad Break (LMNT & Grizzly Coolers) 00:29:43  Investing in Your Health   00:32:05  Momentum Creates Momentum 00:35:40  It’s Not Genetics - It’s Just a Broken System 00:38:17  Vision to Reality of Ways2Well 00:39:57  Educating Customers: Getting Rid of the Bandaids 00:42:48  Podcasts & AI - Knowledge is Power 00:46:44  Microplastics, Dyes, & Ingredients in Foods 00:53:04  Cancer Screening Tests 00:59:22  Insurance Companies Don’t Want What’s Best for You 01:05:46  Telemedicine & Why Danese Walked Away from the Hospital 01:10:13  Healthcare From Home & Insurance 01:16:55  Peptides & Testifying in Congress 01:22:21  Putting in the Effort to Fix the Broken System 01:30:11  Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right.

This is a Keep Hammering Collective from the Road. We're at Ways to Well, the brand new facility. And I'm with the brain children, brainchild. I don't know who I'm with, but I do know without Brigham and Denise, this would be there would be no ways to well so here we are thank you guys um man i'm just going to kick this off this way because i've heard a lot of podcasts with you i've talked to you a lot and um it's always about the broken health care system this and that and i we'll i'm sure we'll get to that and like what you guys offer but here's what i want to know so i'm 57 which i know you're

you're probably thinking, wow, I thought you were older because I looked 77. But why? Okay, God, I should have looked this up. My first stim cell was probably over six months ago. Then I got another one and then I just got it yesterday. So maybe seven, eight months. But why is it at 57, I feel better than I've ever felt in my entire life as far as being healthy, as far as my body, how it can perform?

how is that? Why is that happening? Well, it's a lot of addressing, you know, nutrient deficiencies, optimizing your health, starting the fundamental stuff, getting your body, the things that it needs for repair, and then we use the stem cells to activate your stem cells to help your body heal more, so we're reducing inflammation, allowing your body an opportunity to heal, so you're not starting your day in a deficit. When you train hard and you don't have appropriate mechanisms for recovery, you're You know, a deeper sleep, nutrition, rest, you don't have all that.

You start your day in a deficit. And so training becomes harder and harder and harder and you have more to clear out. You have more taxation on your body, which increases your risk for injury. So when you address those fundamental needs, everything else improves. And one of the things that Denise says and Dr. Ian White, who's our chief science officer on the stem cell side, is as we age, there's a precipitous decline in these goodies of life that keep us healing. So like that's why when we fall as a little kid, our knees or shoulders or whatever, heal fast, right? We often, they can take a spill and have a bruise that's gone in a day.

Yeah. But when you're 80 and you fall, you may be banged on. That bruise lasts for months. Yeah. Yeah. And it's because you're lacking the raw elements for the body to heal. And you also are beginning to lack the efficiency that your body had in its use. And so the way he explains it is if you're going to build a building, you need all the raw elements to build a building. And you need all the raw elements to build the building. You need the bricks, the mortar, the wood, the concrete, the steel, but you also need the blueprint. And so when we give people these, you know, birth-derived tissues and cellular goodies, what they're getting is a plethora of all of these goodies that we have a natural decline in. So for a temporary stage, we're returning your body to

a youthful like healing process, where you have an exorbitant amount of all these cellular goodies, but also the blueprint, the MRNA messenger cells and signaling cells. And that's what MSCs really mean is they're mesinkable signaling cells. And they alert your body of injuries, inflammation, but then they also give your cells all the goodies to heal yourself, transferring their mitochondria into your older, tired cells, making your cells young again for a temporary period of time. That's why so many people say they feel like they heal like Wolverine. And that's kind of the same with the Wolverine molecule, the BPC, is it. it's allowing you to optimize a short chain amino acid that we're deficient in.

Yeah. Well, that was reminded, so you said you need all these things to build the structure. And what you reminded me of is without a good foundation, you said blueprint, but maybe we're talking the same thing, but without that good foundation, which is the sleep and then starting, you're not starting a deficit or I wasn't or I'm not starting a deficit now and I was for all those years. So maybe because of that, get that foundation and then all these building blocks that we're adding in just have more of a impact. Yeah, just progressive improvement. One of the things we do different, I didn't just give you the mesnecable cells. I gave you all the goodies. So just like

you said, all the ingredients. And that's what makes us a little different or a lot different in very many ways to other people that boast about how many mesomal cells that you're getting. I use analogies all the time. So I talk about, I compare it to chicken noodles. Is that, is that, so just help me out. Is that like the potency of the stem cell? Or what is that referring to? It's a particular element within the product I gave you. So these cells donate the mitochondria. And so they're medicinal signaling cells is what they were reclassified as. And so a lot of people put emphasis as that's the only way to heal. But I make a joke, the chicken noodle soup. If I'm going to give you a chicken noodle soup,

you're expecting chicken and noodles and broth and veggies. You're expecting all the the things for on a hot bowl. So if I'm explaining stem cells or that product to you and I'm not giving you everything else that you need to make that cell supported, then you're missing those elements. So you're not going to get, in my opinion, you're not going to get the full repair. You're only getting some of the blueprints, but you're not getting the anti-inflammatory benefits. You're not getting all of the signals to heal. So in the products that we use, it has in the zygmol cells. It has the exosomes, the growth factors. It has the clotho and it has a lot. of, you know, we're breaking it down to, you know, you're building materials, but that's

actually what's needed to help grow and heal a baby. It grow and heal during pregnancy. It helps the mother fight the rigors of pregnancy. So there's a lot of exchange there. And it's, I mean, we give it in the purest form. Yeah. It's not manipulated. It's, that's why I feel like that's why it's so successful. Yeah. And just because I just know what the questions I get was about stem cell is, so these your stem cells are derived from healthy birth and mothers who donated after a healthy healthy birth the placenta and the umbilical cord is that right correct and so that's where it comes from because there's there's old wives tales and there's whatever whatever rumors from the street on where the stuff comes from um which i get it because stem cell is kind of new and it's like

what I've noticed is when I go talk to a regular doctor, they want to kind of write off stuff like this, you know, because they're not making money off of it and they like to make money. So they like talking about this type of treatment of like, uh, jury's still out,

you know, whatever. But I think they're, I don't know if they're protecting their interest. Probably some just don't know. Some are probably, you know, just don't like this approach,

maybe. I think some of it's dogma. Like on, like, candidly, you know, the saying science evolves one funeral at a time is pretty spot on, unfortunately. And when you, most people look at cellular treatment options, a lot of times it's because they have an orthopedic injury. And to a hammer, everything's a nail. And so you go into an orthopedic surgeon, it's like going into a car salesman, he's going to sell you a car.

That orthopedic surgeon's also not trained in biology in depth, like in, you know, molecular biology and the nuances of how these cellular treatments work. So when mind, they go, I can fix you. I don't necessarily think it's as calloused as potentially as we would think as much as if I'm trained in this craft and I think the way to fix you is what I'm trained in, then I'm going to pitch you on what I'm trained in. Yeah, I'm going to lean into what I know. And then it's easy to be skeptical because you can go, well, it's not legal in the U.S. And it's not that it's not legal. It's that it's not an FDA approved product in the U.S. But a lot of what we use, even FDA approved, is used off-label in medicine.

Every day, Denise can probably speak higher to that. Like, a huge percentage of the medications on the market are used off-label to treat. I mean, right now, like what they're seeing with ivermectin and some of these other products. Surprise, surprise. Ivermectin has just exploded recently. I think it's because of the anti-cancer aspects of there were some studies that came out that every time they study ivermectin with a certain type of cancer, that cancer load gets better the tumor shrieks. There's just study after study and, you know, you have people that are like,

oh, they haven't studied this, you know, it hasn't been proven in this type of cancer yet. I'm like, right, because they haven't studied that way, but, you know, cancer is still cancer. It's still a mutation of those cells. So I look at ivermectin as a way to help your body identify that there's a problem. And so we identify parasites. We identify viruses. Our immune system activates to remove that. So when you're talking about cancer and root causes, I think, I think byvermectin, again, it's off-label use. It's exciting to repurpose medications and give somebody another option and it's inexpensive. But back to the cell staff, you know, a treatment of stem cells versus what you have to pay for surgery and the recovery time.

Yeah. There are some cases that, you know, it is a surgical need. And we'll, you know, after we examine you, we're looking at MRI and sometimes there is a surgical need. But I'll always tell my patients, come back, let me treat you right after surgery so I can help you heal. and prolong that. The bigger one would be like, you're like, Aaron, Rogers, you know, I know you had on the podcast.

Yeah. That was a traumatic injury. He's going to have to have surgery. Rupter. And that's a big placement for these products that I think is overlooked. People think it's one or the other. Right.

And in reality, like the cells can help tremendously with the healing process of a surgical procedure. And that's one of the things I've tried to talk to a lot of the orthopedic surgeons that I know, because that's where we cut our teeth was like, candidly, that's how Danese and I met. what, 20 something years ago? Yeah.

Was covering, I mean, I was an orthopedic rep and she was an orthopedic nurse at the time, uh, working hand in hand with these orthopedic surgeons and, you know, watching the recovery process on an ACL or an MCL or any of these surgical procedures, if we can speed that up, because so often these are sports related injuries with sports related athletes, there's a lot of money and how fast can we help someone heal and get back on the field or back in the game. Yeah, got to perform, got to get back to work. Yeah.

It's just like, you know, somebody hurts their back at the mill. Got to get that back fixed so you can get back, you know, to work because you got bills to pay. It's no different for those guys. But that does remind me, I did some run testing yesterday. And we were talking about, I brought up. It's like, man, it seems like everybody's a run coach these days. It's like these guys do a couple marathons and all of a sudden you see that they're coaching runners. And I'm like, God, these guys, I think.

that they just started doing it reminded me of this field a little bit in that there's a lot of people out there probably not as qualified as you guys giving advice on health and longevity right and so i wanted to talk about your credentials how you guys got here and what makes you so good at what you do like as far as far as giving advice giving treatment um right procedures. Tell me about where you came from to get right here. Well, like Brigham mentioned, we met in the hospital 20-something years ago. I knew we've identified. We've already identified that the system is broken. And I don't know if he remembers this, but he kept showing up to take care of my patients.

And that's all I ever asked of the reps, just show up, just take good care of the patients. And he kept showing up. And I told him, I was like, we're going to be friends. I'm going to keep you because he kept showing up to provide care for the patient and provide what they need it. And so fast forward all those years later, he's like, hey, I want to start, I'm going to take good care of people. And I'd kind of helped him on the side. I was kind of helping like start in the process. And but I was deep in my practice and I didn't want to. What do you mean start the process?

Like this vision or this? Yeah, what happened from my end like was as I broke away from being a med device rep and I started being an entrepreneur in the healthcare space, I saw how broken it was. and I knew it was broken because I had lived in it, but then after like getting out of it and like seen behind the curtain, like the example I'll give, the primary example is you go out and I would educate clinicians in the state of Texas on the importance of comprehensive blood work. And they would go, yeah, this makes total sense.

And the answer is we have a chronic disease crisis. 1.7 million people are dying a chronic disease a year in America. Most chronic diseases are preventable. Through comprehensive blood work, we can identify, and offset and prevent chronic disease. Why are we waiting for people to get really, really sick and then writing them a bunch of prescription drugs?

That makes no sense. And doctors just say that makes total sense. Yeah, we should do comprehensive blood work. And so I had a blood lab and I would educate the clinicians on the importance and then they'd start sending to my blood lab. And within six months, every doctor in Texas got nasty letters from the insurance companies saying if you continue to pull blood work, we'll get rid of your contract and you'll lose your insurance contract.

We don't want you doing these deep dives. And that's when I realized we're going to have to break out of this broken system. But was that because insurance companies want people sick because that's where the big money comes in? I think it's because insurance companies have an obstructionist mindset and they're viewing things on a quarterly basis. And so they're looking at it going, if I give Cam blood work this quarter and it costs me, let's just say in an insurance model $2,000. That's the other problem, the price points that are set by the insurance company. because a percentage of them don't pay. If I reject this, I delay this and less than 10% of people appeal.

So most of the time, people just go away. They just give up on their blood work. And so, and give up on asking to have the test done. I see. So you hear it all the time. People go, I couldn't get this test under. My doctor told me they can't run the test. They can run the test.

They just can't get the insurance to approve it. And so in a way, it's not your clinician deciding what's best for you. Yeah. It's the insurance company deciding what's best. for their profits. And so I at that point started a blood lab and I was just talking to Denise about, you know, I think we're going to have to start our own clinic to be able to give people accessibility to true care. And that's kind of how it started. Like I just remember meeting up with you and connecting and asking you if this would be something you'd want to

spearhead for me. I don't know. That was exactly what happened. And I was like, listen. This was 20 years ago or at this point? No, we had known each other 20 years. This was maybe 2018. Okay. Yeah. That was December, November, December 2017. Yeah. And what were you doing at that time?

I was in pain management doing joint injections and I was running around 14 facilities and seeing all the patients in the hospital. Now I was done. These people were broken and they were getting to me as a last resort. And, you know, I wasn't, I didn't want to leave because I had a great schedule. I could take my kids to school, you know. I was like, oh, this is from my mommy life. this was great, but I didn't.

Maybe I'll save the world some other day. No, you know, I'm like, but I just, every day I'd go to work and just be dead. Because I'm not actually helping these people. They were too sick, too broken. And, you know, as a provider, I make a joke all the time. I went to school for nine years. I didn't go to school for nine years to accumulate a whole bunch of debt.

I went to take care of people. And so when Brigham and I stood in the hallway, I was like, right, if we do this, you just have to let me take good care of people. And he's like, that's all I want. His words were, that's my tie to the universe. I just want to take good care of people. And that's been our mission the whole time. We just want to take good care of people.

So, I mean, sometimes it's blood work. Sometimes it's stem cells. Sometimes it's cancer, you know, cancer testing, cancer screening. Sometimes we're looking at micronutrients. Sometimes it's just a conversation of lifestyle. I'm doing with a lot of people and I'm just like, hey, you need to work on your sleep. You need to work on your diet. If those are not fundamentally corrected, you're not getting enough nutrients.

You're not putting your body as a priority. It doesn't matter what else we do. that you're still broken. And people just don't look to that first. They still want to eat. Yeah. It's tough. And stay up late and the blue light.

I can go down all those things. Disconnected from the ears. We don't go outside. We don't socialize as much. There's so much that goes to, I call it whole person health. So when you ask me what makes this different, I'm not just looking at, hey, you hurt your knee. I'm going to inject that knee. I'm going to look at, do you have all the elements that you need to repair?

So that's why I like to do the blood work That's why I like to have a 45 minute discussion I want to get to know you so that And we talked about this yesterday You're my NM1 always I will not compare you to anyone else Because you are a different person We're also biochemically unique

I need to do what's best for your body And so on clinician side of it When people get these protocols and everybody It's the same thing Like ah did you ever even talk to your patient Do you know Do you know anything about them Is this attainable for them

Sometimes it's small steps. But, you know, again, just prioritizing the patient first, getting to know your patient, identify and meet them where they are, and then help them take the steps. I call it peeling back the layer of the onion, you know, just next step to optimal. And then all of a sudden you wake up six months later and you're like, I feel great. Yeah. Something is different. I'm sleeping.

My favorite is when I have like the spouse of the person that I've been working with and I get a phone call or a message, Hey, thanks for saving his life. Thanks for bringing my wife back. You know, things like that. That's why. That's why I went to school. That's why I invested 25 years. That's why.

It is amazing. When you get this, like, there's a lot of days. This is tough because you're fighting a lot of powers and a lot of different dynamics, you know, trying to be cash pay and offer cost effective solutions to people and fight the establishment. Fight big pharma. Fight big insurance. Fight academia. A lot of that is a challenge.

but then you get these wins. Like, you know, our buddy Tony from Staccato Pistol sending that message about, he said, you told me that you could help me. You lied. You didn't help me. You saved my life. Really? Literally what he said to us.

He said, I go to bed with my guts on fire. He's like a former special forces guy. Like just all sorts of, and now he's down to, I don't even know what percentage of body fat, like the leanest he's ever been. He's like, it saved my marriage. It saved my sex life. It saved everything. And he's done testimonials.

He's posted about it. Yeah. Like, and that's, what's crazy is that's not the exception to the rule. That's the rule. And what that tells me is it's there for everyone. Like, that's one of the things I've said before. Even with these really obese patients, we have to give them wins on the board. So many people are in the pit of despair because they go, it's just my genetics or my doctor told me I'm fat and my hormones are bad.

Well, why? Like, let's look. Let's have a, but it's not that their clinician's bad. it's that their hands are tied. And in that system, they can't really do a deep dive. So if I were to like break down, you had asked about other things. Like almost everything we do at Ways 2WEL would not be covered by insurance anyway. And it's not because it doesn't work.

It's because it's just not the insurance model. They're not built to be proactive, predictive, and preventative. Right. They're built to be reactive and prescribed medicines. And when you ask like, is it because the doctor is not that the doctor's, are making money, they're doing more and more and making less and less. But the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies are making Buku dollars. Because now the average Americans on four or more prescription drugs, riddled with chronic disease, metabolic disease, diabetes, obesity.

Yeah. I know it's, I think the numbers, what percentages of it now, Denny, instead of Americans that are obese or overweight? It's staggering. Yeah, I think it's, I want to say 84%. what it'll need to lose at least 15 pounds. It's an extraordinarily high number. And then Tim Kennedy, I haven't checked this. I haven't even got the fact, but Tim said 70-something percent of

active people can't qualify for active duty right now. Oh, yeah. Which is crazy. So now it's like a national security issue. If we have this sick of a population, but we're spending more than anywhere, anywhere. Yeah. Anywhere.

And we have one of the sickest populations in the world. And that's where you got to go, what's going on here? And what's really going on is the system's just not built to help people. It's built to monetize chronic disease. Yeah. And it's, you know, I don't want to say people are victims. But when all the food you buy is basically poisoning yourself with the seed oils and things like that, I know you've worked with RFK and you're involved in the Maha and everything else,

make America healthy again, which is incredible. But part of it is the foods we. buy aren't helping us. They're hurting us. They're killing us. And so I get that people feel like they're stuck and they're in a hole and they can't get out because everything they go and buy is sabotaging them. You know, so it just as knowledge about the seed oils and this discussion to me is exciting because it's finally okay. Now we're we're actually talking about the heck and help people. That's just like this. And so I wanted to kind of pivot to that part like, So the knowledge on what to eat, how to feel yourself, quality of food.

So there's money involved in that. Generally, the cheapest, shittiest food is easy to get or cheaper also. So quality food costs a little more. Quality care like this costs money. I mean, why is the investment here better? Because people will tell you what you want to hear. maybe they're not as qualified as you guys. Why is ways to well, even though it's expensive, what do you tell people, customers,

when they're really looking at their health and looking at to make an investment, whether it's diet or here? How do you see that? Again, go back to start with the basics. Start where you are. What kind of symptoms do you have? What are your goals? I work with all walks of life, young people, all the way to an older population athlete.

to people who, you know, have been exercising in quite some time. Yeah. So I try to start where they are. And we set small goals. So sometimes it's just making better choices. And if you can't afford organic, I will teach you how to clean your food. I talk about shopping the perimeter of the grocery store and aiming for foods if they were around 100 years ago, it's safe to eat.

So if you're aiming for your meats, fruits, and veggies, you're going to get more vitamins, minerals, you know, prepare your own food. That's huge. A lot of people have the boxed meals and, you know, it's quick, like meal prep, spend a Sunday afternoon, prep your meals for the day. You're cooking your own food. You are controlling your ingredients. I'm not saying, don't go out to eat. I'm just, you know, you can take control over that.

I know that it's a little more expensive, but if you're thinking about going out to eat, you know, making a few chicken breasts for lunch. You know, I talk about different meals throughout the day versus grabbing a cheeseburger. It's $11 for. or cheeseburger, french fries, and a soda, you can make a much better meal for half of that. So, you know, you might not be able to get organic, and that's what we're working on is trying to improve that food quality, and that's the Maha movement on that side. But what we can do at home is start with the simple choices. Get off the sofa, turn the blue light off, get outside. And I talk about this too.

Sometimes social media is, and there's a difference between diet and nutrition. So your diet is everything that you consume. The negativity, the, again, the social media side of it, when you're a circle of friends. And so you can make small changes to just, you know, eliminate some of those things that are pulling you back. And if you're making those small changes, the next step gets a little bit easier.

Right. And the next step gets a little bit easier. So even if we're not doing blood work, and even if we're not starting there, we can start with small changes. Even just vitamins and minerals, we have, you know, excellent supplements. You know, our food is not as nutrient dense as it once was, so we do have to supplement.

Unfortunately, we do have to supplement very often. I have gone through, I have millions of biomarkers in my programs, and the most common deficiencies we have, magnesium, vitamin D, your B vitamins. It's crazy. And so, you know, we tried to make affordable supplements that have the highest quality ingredients, just to pepper in those things while we're also, you know, if I tell you, hey, go eat some pumpkin seeds, you're like, why I'm going to eat pumpkin seeds. It has a lot of magnesium in it.

You're going to get that. So, you know, those are things that you can choose over potato chips. It's crunchy, it's salty. But again, making those suggestions, people just don't know because I make a joke all the time. I went to school for nine years. I had two classes in nutrition. One was an undergrad elective. We don't focus on that.

Yeah. But, man, I sure knew how to write some prescriptions. That's the challenge. Like, what you're saying, what Denise is touching on is, like, from the food that you touched on to the system itself, and your ability to access true preventative care, you know, being healthy is way more cost effective than being sick. You know, the saying of a sick person, a healthy man has a million once, a sick person has but one. You know, we spend our whole lives chasing money and then all of our money chasing health. And it costs astronomically more to be sick than it does to be well.

And so we've tried to make waste well extremely cost effective. You know, if we compare it to an insurance model, you know, to do a 45-minute deep dive and comprehensive blood work looking at an array of biomarkers is, you know, $500, you know, which is, I don't want to trivialize that, but how much do you spend on a car payment? How much do you spend on a mattress? How much do you spend on your house? Those are things you're in a few hours a day. You're in this body for eternity until your life's over. Yeah. You got one shot at it. Are we going to let, you know, these big insurance companies, big pharmaceutical companies capitalize and profiteer off of sickness. Like you can't, I say all the time, if you eat the average American diet and you go to the

average American doctor, don't be surprised when you get diagnosed with the average American chronic disease. Right. Like we can prevent all of these things, but it starts to take a look under the hood. And the problem is nobody's looking under the hood in that model. They're just waiting for people to get sick. Yeah. And we can prevent most of these things.

And it is way cheaper and more cost effective to be healthy. The number one reason for bankruptcy in the nation is healthcare. Medical bills. Yeah. The number one budgetary constraint for the state is health care. The number one budgetary constraint for the federal government is health care. We lose more people in one year of chronic disease than we've lost in every World War combined from American standpoint. And also with that in mind, I mean, so the investment in your health, it's an investment.

It's like you spend money in different things. You're investing for whatever reason. that thing. So if five or six hundred dollars is an investment in your health that could have a you know decades lasting effect, well then it's a bargain, really, it's a bargain. And yeah, then we can get into the treatments of stem cells and things like that, which, you know, whatever, that's another decision down the road. But the first process is figuring out where you're at, getting that baseline, essentially, and then seeing where you end up. But yeah, that's what that's, to me, it's an exciting time. when I look at everything that's out there.

So now doing the blood test is more people are getting that. They're like, okay, that makes sense. But we have all this ability to track our macros on our phone, to track our activity on our phone. There's so many tools available to take control of your health. And that's one thing. And what I've realized is once people get that momentum going in the right way, even if it's just a little bit, man, that's just all they need.

Just get going, get that momentum going the right way. Right now, a lot of people, it's going the wrong way. It's to have it, you know, I was in this position. I didn't like my job. What do you want to come home? Get a buzz. Not thinking about work. Not think about the people that drove me crazy.

Get up the next day and go do it again. And on the weekend, hopefully party and just like forget about my life. And so that's, I know people are in that position. But once you make the decision, and like, I'm sick of that. I'm sick of that life. I'm sick of that mindset. And you switch.

Then all of a sudden, a whole different world opens up. And now you're just like, you see that scale. You see those numbers going down. You just know how you feel every day. And you're like, I'm doing this. I'm going all in. What else can I find out? And then that's the people who reach out to me and say,

they're so interested in like they see all. the stuff, all these treatments, and they'll listen to this podcast and they'll be like, I'm ready for that. And to me, that's exciting. So we have all this stuff. We're in control. We have people willing to help us. Isn't that amazing? To me, it was, it was one. I was a fat kid. Like, I literally was at 25% body fat. I was on the cusp of obesity. Some people would not think that's fat, by the way. So, you know, if our friend Jelly Roll, if you think about what he's come. It's crazy.

You know, what he's done. And to me is just like, that is like he's a poster boy for this type of thing because he probably felt like he had no, no hope, really. Just like, he was going to feel like shit forever. And now look at him. Yeah. Exercise and doing 5Ks. And I know, do you guys help him too, right?

Yeah. And what you're saying, spot on. I truly say momentum breeds momentum in so many people. Like myself included, I was in the pit of despair, is what I call it, where I go, I guess it's just my genetics. I guess I'm screwed, you know? And I even had, this was before Wastewell, but I had a urologist.

I've told the story. He's like, I don't know if you're fat because you have low tea or if you have low tea because you're fat. But you're definitely fat with low tea. And I'm like, oh, great. But when we fixed it, it changed my life. When we dialed it in, it changed my life. And it was a way, like the weight fell off.

And it was like momentum created, momentum. And that was, what, at this point, 15 years ago, you know, and I'm like, there's answers for people. And a lot of times those answers are just that nobody's looking. And I, I don't love the victimhood mentality either. But there is a truth to a lot of times people aren't given the opportunity to make the change because nobody's giving them the counsel. They're just telling them harsh things like, oh, you have high cholesterol. Here's a cholesterol man. Take this pill. Yeah. Those are all red flags. I tell people all the time,

if you're going the long way down a one-way street, you're going to see sleep signs wrong way. You know, everything's going to be backwards. You're going to have some signs. Yeah. If you're going the wrong way with your help, you're going to have some signs. I don't feel good.

My joints ache. I'm not sleeping. I don't want to have sex. All the things that there's, those are all clues. Those are all signs. So if you're looking at the signs and you know you're going in the wrong way.

And the faster we correct, the less distance, you have to travel back to optimal. So I'm not going to wait until you crash. And go, okay, here you go. The top three diseases. Here's your top three meds. Here we go.

No, I want to jump out in front of me. Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's course correct. Here's how we're going to get back. Here's how we're going to turn around. And I'm speaking on behalf of the medical profession. That's what we want. We want. I don't think any of us went to school just to do the same thing every day and not make a difference.

We need to invest that much. We want to heal people. We want to make a difference. We want to be a part of that movement. And just the quality of life. you know, high five people out the door. That's, again, I, I have so much joy when I get those sweet messages or, hey, look what I can do again or, you know, just the family of the people that we get to change their life. That's, that's so special. That carries. So, you know, if I,

if we reset someone's health and they're a better dad and a better husband, that's changing the course for their entire family. Yeah. And their entire circle, because now you've seen, I know watched a Brigham go through his change. I remember, I hadn't seen him in a while, and he came back and I was like, whoa, what's different? And he's like, I feel good now. And I was like, this is great. Keep doing what you're doing. This is exciting to see my friend change.

But on the flip side, I wish you had never had to go down that journey. I wish somebody would have caught it before. So I'm on the side jumping out in front of people. Let's turn around. And I told the Texas Senate this when we testified by two weeks ago. So many people are told the lie that chronic disease. runs in your family. Diet, lifestyle, and behaviors

run in your family. Right. Those are the gun. And epigenetics, or those are the bullets. Epigenetics are the gun. If you don't put the bullets in the gun and pull the trigger, you don't have to live that lifestyle.

And if we get proactive and predictive, we can prevent over 80% of chronic diseases. Most of what is killing us is preventable. And if we even look at who lives to be a centenarian, who lives to be 100, the only difference fundamentally between those folks and people who die at the average life expectancy is the onset of chronic disease. So the question becomes, can we stave off chronic disease and keep you healthy?

Well, to do that, you got to get proactive and predictive. And I know you've been training for your marathon and I'm assuming like you're doing the run where you know in your head, I've got to be at this time and this pace. And I've got to be by this date at this moment. Yeah. It's the same with longevity. If we set a mark and we know that your bone mineral density is going to deteriorate by X amount after the age of 60, and we know that once a woman reaches postmenopause, she has this precipitous decline in hormones,

or once a male reaches his decline, he has this decline in testosterone annually. And we start to assess you, we can prevent the decline. And therefore, by preventing the decline and preventing the cascade effect of decline that leads to metabolic disease, that leads to all these illnesses. Like, I've heard Denise say this. The diabetes you get in your 30s started in your 20s. The cancer you get in your 40s probably started in your 30s. If we were looking proactively, at least once a year, we could stave off all of this.

And that's our pitch. That's like what I'm trying to tell people, whether ways to well or somewhere else, please, like, take yourself out of this broken system, splurge a little bit, find a cash pay clinic, do comprehensive blood work and you would be amazed at what you're going to uncover. And it's not rocket science. It really isn't. It's just nobody's doing it in the traditional model. Yeah.

I mean, Denise said she's not, she wishes you wouldn't have been fat, but I'm glad you were fat. Now you're jacked and now you're helping people. I'll take it. I'm not happy. Yeah, I'm happy with that. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, it's, I think it's exciting. or what I want to ask is what does it feel like for you guys to have that vision eight years ago

and known each other for so long and now to have this turn into what what waste well has become which now you know you mentioned almost any celebrity and they know of you guys or they come in here or how what's that been like I mean does it seem surreal or say it all the time we like I remember the first time I don't even remember like it just the first time there was a quasi-ce celebrity we were so nervous and we're like oh maybe we got a mate but now it's it's literally every day it's every day and they're so amazing and their feedback's amazing and it's it's it is surreal it's definitely surreal but it's also that like person on the mountaintop's mentality like it's you never feel like you've made it or you're there it's just every day is a battle a grind we're

fighting we're can't we fight in big pharma the fda fda choices like trying to help fix the broken establishment and and push for better. And, you know, yeah, and drive down cost and make it affordable. That's like our biggest initiative is how do we bring this to everybody? Yeah. And when we started this, I told Denise, I will never, I promise you, we will always make this about patient care. I will not sell out. I will not let this become about money. Because the day this becomes about money, we're no different than big pharma. We will be no different than the broken insurance companies. Our secret sauce is making it about people.

And that's why she's my Jiminy Cricket. I rely on her to like be my counterbalance on anything. And that's why it's been a good synergy, I think. Well, we focus on educating our patients. I love when my patients are, like, they come to me like, I read this study. I heard about this. Can I do this?

What about this? Am I supposed to get eight hours asleep? And they're educating. We're putting some information out there and taking it. They're learning. Then they feel empowered. to make a decision. And so I've had, this happens to me all the time.

Hey, I went to my PCP. They said I need to be on a statin. So I went ahead and did your blood work. Do you think I need to be on a statin? And, well, I mean, a statin is a band-aid. It makes the numbers look pretty. But let's get to the root cause. Let's focus on this three or four months later.

Hey, we don't need a statin anymore. They take the same labs that I've run after we've corrected everything. Go back to the PCP and, oh, I don't need a statin anymore. And we made very simple changes. But instead of just, here's your band-aid, here's your band-aid, here's your band-aid, we've educated, we've empowered the patients to help take charge of their health. I call that our pillars, education, empowerment, and empathy.

You know, the empathy side of it is, I want to be healthy too. I want, I don't want you to ever experience the diseases of aging. I want you to have a, and then there's a big difference between health span and lifespan and I want you to have a very fruitful lifespan. Yeah. Not just laying a nursing home, shriveled up, in pain, waiting to die. Yeah. that's where I came from and I was just, it was so heartbreaking.

And to be on this side of it and just think every day, okay, I kept you from this would have been your face. I get to pluck them up. I talk about starfish all the time. And there's the parable of the little boy. There are thousands of starfish washed up on the beach. And there was a little boy throwing one starfish back at a time. And this gentleman comes up and he says, look at all these starfish. You're never going to make a difference.

And the boy picked up a starfish. He said, maybe not to everyone else, but to this one. will and he talks it back. I might not get to everybody. Yeah. Because that's not possible. But can I at least get the message out there? Hey, there's a problem.

We can work together to fix it. Let's keep throwing a starfish back. Yeah. That's, like, it gives me. What's crazy, though, was with large language models and Alan and AI, I think you could get to everyone. I really think the future is bright. Like, as much as we talk about how broken it is, people are talking about things. And if you want to fix, like, we say in medicine to, you don't treat.

the symptoms, you treat the root cause, but you got to identify the root cause. Yeah. And to do that, you got to look. And so like, if we can treat the root cause of the broken system, which I do think they're working on, it's going to be a process. And I'm optimistic that we're headed the right way, but there are a lot of forces fighting that change too. Like, it's, when you were talking about food earlier, I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. It's like from every angle, there's, as much as there's people waking up and getting more and more knowledgeable, there's also people trying to pull the wool back over the eyes and put people back in the box. Yeah.

I think podcasts have definitely changed things because what else would you hear this discussion if it wasn't for podcasts? Yeah. You know, you're not going to hear it at a doctor generally. But so podcast, you know, Rogan, you being on Rogan has changed everything essentially as far as just that awareness part and just knowing what questions to ask. part of it is I know that it's I don't know if it's frustrating but I get like I see some of the comments and they're like just even on what I did yesterday oh is that's a rich man's thing or

must be nice to have money type thing and it's like I get that and I I know what it's like to just be the guy who only has time to go to work and barely if you have a doctor's appointment the guys at your work are just like going to go into another appointment you know you we're expect you to be here at work. So it is hard just making a doctor's appointment just to get your blood test. I mean, that is for some people, that's hard. Well, that's what we're trying to fix too. That's why we have mobile phlebotomy. We send somebody to your house to your office. It's never perfect. You know, and I hope in the future there's a technology. I say this, we say this all the time. There's got to be a technology coming where you take a pill and we monitor you 24-7.

Because with, with Allen and the AI, you know, algorithms in the phone that we have with the waste app, we're tracking. We can tie into wearables, your rim sleep, your deep sleep, your heart rate variability. Those are all. Alan was your alien little thing. People might have saw the picture from when Joe was here yesterday. James got a good picture of Alan,

but that's the AI interactive type thing, which as you guys talk about that, could be where Alan has this connection to all your labs. Yep. To your wearables. And it is basically giving you feedback and advice based on your body chemistry, essentially.

And so that's exciting. And that's on the waste well. Yeah, and the goals to make it in real time because of what you're saying, people are busy. Yeah. Like, moms are busy. They're running kids around. They're so hectic.

Life's busy. Yeah. It's hard to manage your health. And then we're being poisoned with our food and, like, all the stuff I've learned over the last year is terrified me because just aligning with that maha movement, I had no idea. There was things I didn't know.

Like 5% of the human brains, microplastics now. That's crazy from our lifestyle and nutrition and our depression's at an all-time high. People are overworked, underpaid. They're trying to make it. They're trying to figure out how to be healthy. But one thing that Cali Mean says that really resonated with me

is we didn't all the sudden become fatter and lazier than all of Italians. Right. Like in Italy is outperforming us in every health metric and they're eating carbs and drinking wine. It is something wrong with our environment. environment and our system that is setting people up for failure. And there's a way for us to dig out of this hole. And it starts with having the conversation,

which is what I love about podcast and all the things we're doing now, is it gives people knowledge and knowledge is power. Yeah. Yeah. I use that line just with my shoe testing yesterday. Knowledge is power. I was testing shoe efficiency, basically. And it's just like, people are like, oh, so you're leaving Speedland.

And I'm like, no, I'm just trying to figure out what's best. I'm not doing it. But that reminded me, too, of if I had time and I haven't even done this, and supposedly I would have time to do this, but go to my primary care, do the blood test, see what he said, have you guys do the same blood tests, and then see the difference between the two. Who has time for that? But it is an exciting time in that there is this option for people who have it that can reach out, that can do different things, that can maybe like me, feel the best,

have ever fell to 57. That's exciting. And it's like this knowledge, like now anytime somebody hands me a water bottle and plastic, I'm thinking about that. This is going straight to my brain. Plastics are leaching in this water. But we didn't know anything about that. Yeah. I didn't either. I would heat up my healthy meals. I would order healthy pre-made meals. The factor meals that you told me about years ago. And they're healthy, but they're in plastics. And when you heat them up, those those microplastics go into the food. So now I open it and I pour it in a bowl and I eat it up in a glass bowl. And like you just try to make a little bit better choices.

Does it help? Who knows? Like it's, we're so surrounded by challenges. I still get in trouble for standing in from the microwave. From my wife. But whatever. Maybe that little change will go with the plastics. Well, now people are looking at food labels too.

Yeah. I see people in the grocery store. Red diphton. dad and I'll like, oh, no, I'll put this one back, and they'll switch. And I know my kids do the same thing. My kids are looking at it. And, you know, as mom, I'm setting an example for a healthy life for my kids. They see me making choices. They see what I do. And so if I, you know, fundamentally, if I start right now, I can keep them from ever having to deal with chronic disease. Yeah.

I mean, that's pain, chronic problems. I mean, that's my best. Those are my babies. I can imagine everyone would feel away. Just where do I start? What do I do? How do I make those changes? We're just not, I mean, people are talking about it now, but we haven't been talking about it. Right. We haven't been empowered. We haven't been educated. There's, you know. Yeah, there's all sorts of reasons why that would be from government working with lobbyists, getting kicked back from Big Pharma. Were they really concerned with fixing a broken system? I can tell you right now, it's just testifying last week in front of the Senate. here in Texas, all we're asking for, all that these senators, the bill that they're putting

forth asked for, is for you to disclose in a label if there are ingredients that are banned in other nations. Because here in the U.S., in the 80s, we had basically 400 ingredients in our food. Now we have over 12,000. And Europe still has... Is that just making cheaper food? Is that why? For the fillers? Absolutely. More addictive, more caloric, dense, you know, dopamine receipts. response foods that are more addictive and get you where you're hungry again, shorter periods of time. They're not nutrient dense. Yeah.

Because the dark side of this, and this is all factual, is big tobacco, when they began to get the pressure from the federal government, they went out and acquired big food. A lot of people don't know that. The big tobacco conglomerates acquired a lot of the big food establishments and began to test food to make it more addictive and more processed and more profitable. Because they weren't going to make the money off tobacco because of the regulations. So they needed a pivot. I think that's part of it.

Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcomes. Yeah. But what's wild is as a Texan, I love Buckees, man. I don't know if you got to Buckees while you're here. Who does it? It's cool. But Buckees is lobbying behind the scenes to shut down the food label thing. And so is H.E.B.

They would have no food in there. Yeah. And so. But all we're saying. is disclose it. Just disclose it. Tell the truth of what's not legal in other nations. So the consumer can make the choice.

In Texas, they're not even saying you can't put it in the food. They're just saying disclose it. Tell us, yeah. Yeah. Well, that, you know, making more addictive food reminds me. Remember that old commercial ruffles with ridges? You can't have just one. Yeah.

I mean, they were just saying what they were doing right there. You could try to eat one, but you can't because we made this shit so addictive. You eat this whole bag. Or even Pringles, once you pop, you can't stop. Yeah. I mean, so they're like, they've had their blueprint out there. And, uh, but that's why you can sit there and eat a whole bag of Doritos. Yeah.

And then be hungry. Well, it creates a problem because it's, it is. And Lane Norton talks about this part of it a lot. And I agree with him. Is it the food diet? Is it, he's like, I'm more concerned about eating healthy calories and lifting weights and taking care of your body. And that, there's truth to that.

Obviously, that's 100% true. But if we give. people, incentivize people to eat colorful, flavorful food starting at a young age like our fruit loops and they eat these food. I'm not saying, let's just table the red die for now and say, it's an unhealthy meal.

Like, why are we going to make food so much fun that kids want to eat the unhealthy one instead of the healthy option? And it is a cascade effect. And I think it has to start with like better choices. But if we allow our food systems to be corporately captured and corrupted,

it's an uphill battle. I mean, who didn't eat a whole box of fruity pebbles at one time? Did you ever use fruity pebble? Yeah, when I was a kid, I loved cocoa puffs. The fruit lips. Yeah. No, that. Or Captain Crunch, tear up your mouth.

So good. But yeah, it's a, I think, like, even just one basic thing, I think, that I do, you sit down to eat, eat your protein first. Because what people do is they eat a bunch of potatoes or chips of salzo. or biscuits or whatever. And then what's left is they don't eat all their protein. What they need. Everybody needs more protein probably than what they're getting. So if you just start with the protein and then maybe you don't finish your mojo's or whatever.

That's why would you say that's literally the small step that when I started to lose the weight all those years ago, the nutritionist told me. When I saw a nutritionist and he said we're going to prioritize protein. Yeah. And if you're eating the right amount of protein, it's hard to over. eat because it's nutrient dense. It takes time to burn it off. It burns calories to absorb, right? And then versus you give a kid a bowl of fruit loops.

They'll eat the whole box. Yeah. And then the next thing they know, they're hungry again in a few hours. It goes so fast. It just burns up so fast. But that protein sticks around for sure. That's an eat. I mean, it's pretty easy to focus on protein.

Yeah. I mean, just that one big thing. But I don't know. There's a lot of, what is, what are you guys offering now that excites you most? I know we talked about the, the, how it works or whatever, but I know I've tried different things, new things kind of. What excites you the most right now? Well, one of the things I did on you yesterday was their cancer screening test.

Yeah. I'm excited about that because it has the capacity to detect cancer at stage zero. So before a tumor has truly declared itself, when, whenever cancer starts, and the cells start to be released what's called circulating tumor cells. And those cells are clues that you're already starting to change. So the earlier we find out that you're making those changes or you're releasing those circulating tumor cells, the earlier we can optimize your immune system. I don't tell people I'm treating cancer.

What I tell people is I'm giving you the answer that this is already a problem. We refer out or whatever with our team. I also, you know, when I do get a positive test, I talk to my patients. about optimizing their immune system. And how does that start? The right nutrition, sleep. We talk about vitamins and mineral supplements, things that help your body. Body's very intuitive.

We don't want cancer. And if you catch it at stage zero, what's the survival rate again? They have to say 99% because there's always an anomaly. It's the difference between life or death. Yes. Yeah. Oh, man. And my, I mean, my personal story with that is I, you know, this just happened.

I had an emotional weekend over it because I had a family member. Well, we started this test, I made a family member take it. And it came back positive when I suspected that that was a potential just because of the family history and all the means. And we just optimized immune system. We cut out alcohol, exercise, just made lifestyle changes and tested again. No detection. It went from a high level of detection. So there were a lot of circulating tumor cells to zero.

I'm not saying I cured cancer. I'm not saying anything. I'm saying I optimize the body to let it do what it's supposed to do. Our body mitigates cancer, mitigates disease all the time. We have to give it a chance to. We have to give it the ingredients that it needs. And that comes from, again, your baseline stuff, deep sleep, good nutrition, movement. If you're not addressing those things first, everything else you do, we have a lot of fun things that we do.

You did the red light therapy. You know, we have the hyperbaric tumor. Those are all fun. Yeah. They're all great additions to. Yeah, optimizing. Exactly. They just take you to that next level, but that's not going to replace a good diet. Yeah.

Exercise. The fundamentals. It's not meant to replace that. We're still encouraging make good choices. But the cancer test is, I'm super excited. That one's fascinating because it does. It's another leading indicator that can give us line of sight into if you have a risk profile or you are headed towards cancer prior to you truly having like a terminal form of cancer. or more dangerous, we would know and we can have that line of sight. And it gets so crazy because, you know, first responders have a huge increased risk profile of cancer compared to the general population. And, you know, smoke inhalation. The firefighters.

Yeah. Yeah, the fire. And then separate from those folks, another Tim Kennedy one, he told me a seven-fold increase in special forces diagnosis of cancer, seven-fold the general public. And so for me, like talking to Tulsi, talking to the DoD, like, this is what makes sense. Like, why wouldn't you want to screen these people or giving their lives for our country and help protect them from the potential of headed towards something that destroys their life and sets them back financially and harms their family?

Like, we're putting these people in enough harm's way. Let's give them the tools in the tool belt to protect them. I know we don't pay them that much. No. volunteer army and they even I remember when my son was in I was always like irritated with how little you know they don't they don't join for the money but I'm like it is a sacrifice at least pay these guys some decent money yeah um and then beyond that take care of them yeah look out for their health yeah that they does that is that is that test new it's new for us uh they released

it on the market uh last year but we started we started in uh i guess with doing this test. There was another test that's on the market and people are very familiar with. And it's flawed because it only tests for proteins. It doesn't have a pathologist that's reviewing. And so it's a presence or absence of these particular proteins. And it had a lot of false negatives and a lot of false positives. With the circulating tumor cells, they're either present or they're not. And so there's no room for expecting a protein to break down. So there's a specific cancer cell. How do you disorgan? All solid tumors will release circulating tumors.

Right. Okay. So that's always there. Every time, every solid tumor will release. And the reason a lot of people haven't heard of this stuff again is not because it doesn't work or it's not backed by science. It's because if you go into a primary care, they're going to use the tools that they have available. The tools they have available are dictated by the insurance companies. And the insurance companies have no incentive.

and all of a sudden splurging on a test to see seven years in advance if you're going to develop cancer. That's not their model. That's not the business model. I'm not trying to make it doom and gloom in like that it's some sort of egregious. It's just the system is built for failure. It is built to monetize chronic disease and kick the can down the road. Yeah. And so if I'm an executive at a big insurance company, I look at it and go,

Cam wants to do a cancer screening that's going to cost us money. In 24 months, Cam will be somebody else's problem because the average American switches jobs every two years. And then by the time real chronic disease develops, you're the taxpayers' problem. And so for them, the incentive is delay, delay, delay, deny, deny, kick the can down the road. It's just business. It's unfortunate because it does involve human lives. It's no different than, you know, when I broke my foot, I went in and a doctor was like, well, you had any surgery.

And then once you put a plate in, then you've got to have another surgery to take it out. He's like, we could try a bone stimulator machine, but insurance probably won't, won't approve it. I said, well, you could try it. I said, how much is it? And he told me how much it was, not cheap, but not like a surgery. And I said, so that bone simulator could help heal my foot. And it's a fraction of what a surgery, let alone two surgeries would cost. And they won't approve that, but they'll prove cutting on me.

And there's no guarantee the surgery would be perfect because your foot, whatever. But anyway, that was just an example. So I did put it into insurance. They did deny it. Yeah. They want that surgery. Yeah. They're not really worried about what's best for you.

Well, and the reason oftentimes they push you back to surgery is because a lot of times with insurance, you have a big out-of-pocket copair deductible. And so it's this dirty little shell game. And I'm breaking this down before. So imagine I'm a 25-year-old kid and I tear my ACL, okay, a partial tear, right? They're going to say if they approve something, they're going to make you jump through a bunch of hoops, go get an MRI. Now you've got a big out-of-pocket deductible for the MRI. you got to pay for that. Then you go and say, okay, well, what's the surgery going to cost?

You're out-of-pocket expense, maybe $10,000. Well, if I'm a 27-year-old kid, I can't afford $10,000, so I just don't get the surgery. Right. Right. And then... You're dealing with that your whole life. Yeah. Yeah.

And then they get rebates off of the prescription medicines. So that's the other challenge is when I say they're monetizing chronic disease. They have middlemen called pharmacy benefit managers and a big chunk of the revenue generated, generated from the insurance companies and their profits are generated by you being on prescription drugs. So now there's an incentive for you to be on a prescription drug. And it's just this loop. People get caught in the feedback loop where they're trapped in this cycle. They go, I can't afford the surgery, but they'll cover my medicine. I guess I'll just take this pill. They said it'll help. Yeah. It's this terrible system. Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know. I remember I went to

a primary care doctor, one of, like, it was during COVID. And COVID was a whole different thing. But, uh, anyway,

this guy was like, he goes, oh yeah, he goes, I know you and your buddy Rogan, you're all, you know, anti-vax type thing.

And I'm just like, I go, I said, I just don't, I said, I don't take a flu shot. I said, I'm not taking this COVID shot.

He's just like, why? Because you're buddy Rogan. And I'm just like, and I said, no, I said, I go,

you make money off, off ready prescriptions, right? Off vaccines off this or that. He's like, yeah, but that's not, that's not why I, that's not why I recommend things. And I said, I go, I don't know, I saw a couple salesmen out in your waiting room. I go, what are they here for?

I said, do they care about me? Or do they care about selling you stuff? I said, because they don't know me. And he's like, well, yeah, they make recommendations and all, but. I said, so, everybody's trying to make money. you make money by writing prescriptions doing this thing and I said but you're turning it into if you question that at all or if you're like well I'm not so sure about that then you don't know what you're talking about it's like I'm just looking at objectively going I saw these salesmen out there these pharmaceutical salesmen

they don't they don't care about me yeah they want to make money and so it's always like I don't know we were we were kind of scolded for at that time questions questioning, just questioning the system. You know, you're supposed to just take the vaccine and not question anything. And they really tried to hammer that home. And, you know, the winter of sickness and death. I mean, yeah, it was crazy time. But now here we are on the other side of it.

And maybe all that, hopefully, was for the good. And here we are. And I don't know, like, when we talk about, I don't know, we haven't even talked about this. I haven't even thought about this since right now. But Obama, Karen, this or that, it seemed like it changed the type of treatment or care you could get. And I don't know what happened, but years ago, it seemed like you could get better care or maybe we just didn't know enough.

But now it seems like they are more taxed. I don't know. They have less time to spend with each patient. I don't know what happened. I want to blame Obama, but to your point, they're always late. You know, you're sitting in there for us. they come in, they got to go in a second.

You're not getting into like this in-depth, like, well, what about me? What about me? You know, and that's, I don't know when that changed. But I feel like maybe we took a step backwards and it was bad for a while and now maybe it'll be better. I don't know. I think we intentionally created a monster because we forced people to be required to have insurance and it created an essentially almost a monopoly where everybody has

to have insurance plans, but those insurance plans aren't necessarily in the best interest of the patient. And the individual, I can't remember the woman's name who was over HHS at the time, but a lot of people talk about Big Pharma and how 10 out of the last 11 heads of the FDA have gone to work for Big Pharma, the industry they were regulating. But one thing they miss is an exorbitant amount of the heads of HHS, Human Health Services, have left that to go work for the insurance companies. And so the head of HHS at the time that helped Ramrod Obamacare went to go work for the big

pharmacy benefit manager lobby group. And so there's all of this cross-pollination where people one year work for the federal government and regulate and then a year later take a job with industry. And that collusion and cross-pollination, I think creates conflicts that lead to all these outcomes, to lead to all these shitty outcomes that we're dealing with. And it's like, this is the type stuff that has to get fixed or we're always going to be caught in a loop cycle, I think. Well, one of the ways that we tried to fix that is through telemedicine. You know, we were telemedicine before COVID.

Okay. So, you know, we were doing that to just meet people where they are. So if I, I need 45 minutes of your time to go through everything. I know that's, that's, it has to have a good balance for both of us. I can't expect somebody to take more time out of their day. But I also can't expect you to drive 30, 45 minutes. to see me, to sit an hour in my lobby, to see me for six minutes, and then you got to draft 30, 45 minutes back home, go to the pharmacy, pick up your stuff. I mean, that's a lot of time.

I would rather use all of that time. And so when I have an appointment, we're going to meet at 9 o'clock. I log in at 9 o'clock. Yeah. And, or, you know, to your point, you did talk to me, like, through a long conversation on the phone about my blood panels and about everything you thought and about the detail of it. So you do what you say. I mean, yeah. I, and that's a lot of I love that. I love educating my patient. So if I'm looking at biomarkers, I'm looking at everything at one time. So I'm going to tell you how they're all connected. What irritates me when people will tell me, oh, I got a CBCP. It's a $3 test. I'm like, great. What else did they test? No, that's all they got. Well, where's your vitamin D? Where's your B vitamins? Where's your magnesium? Well, how are your hormones? Did they check your thyroid? Are you sleeping? So I've got all these questions. And they're like, well, but insurance paid for this $3 blood test that, yes, it's going to give me some information. But it's not everything I want. So I hate this. My patients will have to go and get this blood test,

and then they have to go back into another visit to get another test. So by the time they've collected all this from their insurance covering it, they're a year invested, several visits, several co-pays. How much time did that take? And I'm still trying to look back at where the CBC says was in the beginning. So I like doing everything at once. I get to know what's happening, how it's all connected, And, you know, yeah, it's expensive, but it's an investment in your health.

And if I identify all these things now and I set that course, well, now your investment has just that accumulation, accumulatory function of improved health is lifetime. Yeah. Now you know, now you're empowered. You know, when I was doing pain management, the, my breaking point and the day I called, the day I called Brigham and I was like, all right, let's do this. the I was a Medicare provider and I was the only one around that could do rib blocks and you put numbing medicine in the patient's rib he had fallen off of the ladders and that ER about to go to

ICU. He's late 60s, early 70s and they were going to have to intubate him because he wasn't breathing. He was too painful to breathe. But if I came in my ultrasound machine and put some numbing medicine in, he would breathe and not be on the ventilator. Great. I was an odd alcohol. It was a Saturday night.

I'm like, I don't want this guy to be on the ventilator. I left my family, went to this block for this guy, billed insurance because you have to bill for their services. I got paid $1.67. Medicare sent me a bill for $1.67. So if he had gone, if they had intubated him, he had gone to ICU, he probably would have been there for several days if he had been able to get off the vent at all. Because statistically speaking, when you put something on a ventilator, there's a high risk for infection, like all these things. And I just, not that I ever needed the money side of it, but the value that Medicare placed on his life, the monetary value of that, I was like, I. Dollar something.

$1.67. I still have the check. And I'm like, this is not okay. I would do it again tomorrow. I would do it every day to get that man off a ventilator. But that's why people get discouraged because I couldn't pay my bills if that's all I, you know, an hour and a half of my time. that I couldn't provide for my family. And so that's where providers are they have to get so many, so many visits go as quick as you can,

bill as much as you can, put as many codes in there so that you can get that reimbursement. And then after you submit, someone has to bill behind you because they deny it every time. So you've got the manpower, somebody billing behind you again. And I still never got to do what I wanted to do with my patient. I didn't get to get the whole lab. And I didn't get to get everything that I wanted to see at once. and so you know to your point about it being expensive by the time you pay the co-pays over and over and over and over and over and all those it's it's all the time it's actually yeah it's well because you can do it from the comfort of your own home yeah it's i always tell people it again like small wins if your budget says i can only spend that once a year that's so much better than not at all yeah like once a year to do that deep dive in a dream world if you can afford it i i tell people try every quarter just so it's a snapshot of you in time you in time And the more snapshots we have, the better we can track your trajectory and where you're

headed with potential chronic diseases and your overall health and wellness. But those are where Dexa, V-O-2 Max, Allen, you know, wearables, all these are going to give us more snapshots. And the more data we can capture, the more we can help people for free. Like, that's just going to be built in. And that's where I think the future is really bright. We're going to have an amazing amount of information at our. fingertips

24-7, including education. It's like having an eye on your pockets like having Denise in your pocket. You know, you ask him and he'll answer any question

about your unique blood work and your Daxa, BOTOMX, anything you do at ways to walk. Is the blood test covered by insurance? Like we, they don't do that.

They don't ever. Does that seem weird? So if I submit, this is, I'll probably TMI on this part of it, but if I submit that to your insurance, For all the blood panels that I do, they bill your insurance about $3,600 to do all the blood work that I do. You have about 20% copay.

So you're already, you're just your co-pay alone is more than the blood test. Yeah. And then you get six minutes with your provider. You don't get a report. So when I do your blood test, I get to order everything that I want. I want a complete panel. And then I could spend 45 minutes. When I told that story about my urology experience and them uncovering and helping me lose the weight,

Literally, I waited almost a year. I had to go to a primary. I had to get a referral. I had to get referred into the urologist. Then the urologist, I said in that clinic for probably, I don't know, hours. And then he finally pulls my blood work and I get a bill in the mail like a month later for like $900 or something. Well, none of it was covered. Like the insurance will just deny it or short pain.

And then by law, the clinic or blood lab is required to go after you for the difference. Right. And so that's where people are so scared. And they go, I wish I knew what, like, it's hard because you can't eat your cake and have it too. People go, I wish that I knew what everything's going to cost. And then we go, well, in a cash model, you do know what everything's going to cost. In the insurance model, it's not your doctor's fault. It's the insurance company playing this shell game where they want you to be worried about it.

So you say, you know, I don't want that test. I don't worry. Last time I got a bill. It's weird when you say, like, the blood test for you guys is, what, five or 600, but the insurance is charging $3,600. That's a cash pay difference. So that's the market. But okay, so then I was also, was it my insurance package, like when I had my, you know, I had a regular job forever. But I just would pay the co-pay and then I guess my insurance coverage would pick up the difference.

Why they do a write-off or an agreement? Okay. Because I know I didn't pay for blood tests at my primary care when I had a job. I would just pay the 20 bucks. Yeah. Do you know how comprehensive of a blood test and how often now? Because a lot of times they're not looking. That's what Denise is saying. They're pulling a very small panel typically. Yeah. They're scared to pull a full panel.

Right. It wasn't like what you did for sure. It was a more abbreviated one, but it was, I don't know, probably halfway, you know, maybe not. That's better though. I mean, it is different by insurance and there's literally thousands of insurances. No, and it's like, yeah. I mean, we probably, where I worked was a good place. This is, you know, municipality, back home, water, power.

So we had a pretty good package. But it's like, I just didn't know how that worked in the difference. It's a racket because I also owned pharmacies that build insurance. And that's how I learned all this. You could come in and, you know, Mimau could come in with her prescription drugs. And again, the average Americans on four more prescription drugs, elderly populations on a lot more. And she comes in and I swipe her card. And let's just say it's blue cross blue shield.

It tells me what to charge you for a copay. there were a lot of times I could sell you the drug cheaper than your co-pay. But at the time, I was not allowed to tell you. Oh, yeah. It was a gag clause that didn't allow me to tell you at the time. Now, I heard certain states have gotten rid of that, but there are still, you know, when you're seeing that many people and you have hundreds of people in line and, you know, that pharmacy text just swiping the card, a lot of times they're not going to go,

hey, ma'am, excuse me, it'd be cheaper if you pay cash less than your co-pay. So they just, people just accept the co-pay and they don't realize that oftentimes they're getting price couched. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I've been noticing a lot. Like when I look at these examples, when I think back and when now we're talking about this. But so just to back up, like when I talked to you, so we did the, we did the blood panel. We talked on the phone all about it. Then got the prescriptions from at home, delivered at home.

So it was, it wasn't the dragging back and forth. It was exactly like you described. So if you look at the overall time, a lot meant, yeah, I mean, it was way better on how we did it here. And I felt like I got good care. It's just a change from what people are used to. But that's okay. That's why we're talking about this. And it's a good change.

When I talked about that I'm feeling better than I ever have, like a lot of people will point right to testosterone. And it's just like, I haven't even. I haven't even taken testosterone. I don't know what I was at, like maybe 500, I think, from you guys in on the blood blood panel. But I haven't even got to that. I think you sent me some like rub on stuff. I haven't even even done it yet.

But so it's like it's not just that testosterone helps a lot of people. Mine wasn't crazy low that I don't, I don't remember. But anyway, it's like so much other stuff. The BPC, the, what's that stuff I take at night? Magnet, well, magnesium. Well, yeah, the injection stuff. The pinealium? Yeah, the pineal.

Yeah, so it's like so many different things. And then I'll get the testosterone, but there's a lot out there that can help people that. I know BPCs, they try to control that because I don't know why, but that's a huge one, that peptide. Hopefully that's going to change. They are working diligent. I know, I mean, Bobby Kennedy said he's, he's, he's, you know, been to waste well. He's worked with us. He's a proponent of peptides.

I mean, look at how he looks at his age and look at what great shape he's in. And he tweeted before he procured the nomination that it was like, your war on peptides, stem cells. FDA, your war on peptide stem cells, all this are over. And so there's a lot of hope out there that we're going to. going to go back to doing what's right for people rather than what's right for the big pharmaceutical industry. And I'm really confident that there's a lot of positive change coming that's going to allow more cost effective, safe and compliant accessibility back to all the peptides. How did, like, how did you get to a place where you're testifying in front of Congress?

I mean, how did that happen? Like, you know, it's, we talk about where you guys have started to, I see that. I see you guys working with RFK. and doing these amazing things and Tulsi and's like just that part, just the fact that Trump reached across the aisle and got these like lifelong Democrats basically to work with them for the, yeah, for what I would, the way I look at it is what's best for the American people. That's what we wanted. These people could, Republicans Democrats could never work together. Well, now they are.

Now it's like the people who we've mentioned that can make a difference are in positions to make a difference. And that's how amazing is that. But how did that happen? happened where you've had this opportunity. It mean, honestly, it all started with that Rogan podcast years ago. And when I did that, I think at this point it's been four years ago or at least three and a half years ago, something like that. Yeah.

It really resonated. People are like, what? What are PBMs? What are middlemen? What are, it was crazy the effect it had. But one of RFK's campaign people had heard it and asked if I could come and meet with Bobby in Dallas. So I drove to Dallas and I sat down.

He rolled up his sleeves and sat down with me for third. 30 minutes and truly wanted to understand what do you think is wrong with the system tell me what's going on with peptides Wait, they're banning peptides? Why? What's happening here? We had this in-depth talk and then Tulsi You know, she had heard the podcast and asked Joe about it and Joe's like they're great Yeah, any one day I see a group text and it's Tulsi Yeah, and then she's a stud How it all started really though even going back to Joe was like I would sit there when Joe would come in for treatments and Denise would talk to him about his health and all that and I would just talk to him about

about the crazy shit I saw as a drug rap and a med device rep. Yeah. And one day he's like, come on the podcast. And I'm like, what? I've never done a podcast. He's like, shut the fuck out of these two guys talking. Yeah. Come on the podcast.

And that led to that, which then led to Tulsi. And one day talking to Tulsi, I was telling her the crazy stories. Joe's like, tell her some of the stuff you were telling me about insurance and med device and all this. And Tulsi one day is like, people think that politicians drive change, Brigham. People drive change. People like you, like you've got to speak up and you've got to talk. You've got to make the public aware of what these people are doing

so that they can lean on politicians to drive change. And it was wild that she had that conversation because then literally a few months later is when I met Bobby Kennedy. And then the rest is kind of history at that point because of Bobby. I met Cali Means. And then it led to me getting a message saying, hey, we're putting together a group to take a new approach to health care to testify in front of the U.S.

minute about what we saw. And so my testimony was focused on the broken system. And so I'll make a long story short, but I basically just said everything that we are going to talk about is broken down by two words, corporate capture. And everyone talks about Eisenhower's speech and the him warning us about the military industrial complex. But the second half of that speech, he did warn the American people about the scientific industrial complex. And that if we allow academia, our three-letter organizations and our scientific processes to be captured by private interests,

we will lose the garage tinker, the innovator, the creator, and we will be basically living the world we're living. And it's just crazy to see that that guy had that kind of foresight on so many different things. And that was it. And that's why I'm so optimistic because that was a bipartisan effort

to bring forth awareness and change. and it's crazy to see what's happened since that, you know, on the healthcare front with Bobby and even Tulsi. I know Tulsi's passionate about helping our military personnel, bringing about better modalities and ability to protect our personnel and help them live long, healthy, happy lives. So I'm excited and I'm optimistic, but it is all, that's when we said surreal,

that's probably the most surreal thing that other than going on Joe, the most surreal thing was that day testifying in front of the Senate. And I was pretty sick. Yeah, I was pretty sick. I remember seeing that. But I mean, shout out to Eisenhower, too, because the generals that serve our military, a lot of times get jobs in the military industrial complex afterwards, you know, working for these contractors and for.

So, yeah, he was spot on on both things. Yeah. It was like. He saw all of it. He saw all, which is crazy. But, yeah, now we're talking about it and hopefully we can correct it. But it's, yeah, it's an exciting time. for sure.

I think what validates Brigham and what helped his momentum, you know, he has his story of, he saw the broken system, but then he set out to fix it. And when you see someone, when people complain, hey, this is broken, this is broken, this is broken, but they don't put the effort into trying to fix it, they get brushed aside. They're just screaming about nothing. What's your solution?

What's your solution? Yeah, sky is falling. Yeah, exactly. And so now he's like, okay, we have a solution. Let's tell people. Let's encourage people. Let's empower people. Let's educate people. It's not just about ways to well. It's about health. It's about taking control of your health across the board. And he said it several times in this podcast. He's like, hey, there's a lot of companies that do what we do. You can just take control of your health. That's the message. Yeah. You know, and so he didn't just, hey, there's a problem. There's a problem. Let's work to a solution. We can start to guide people in the right direction. We can start to turn those cars around back in the right direction. I feel bad for the people that hear that message and try to do it and then get to the people who don't have the same approach you guys have

who are just more of the snake oil type people who are just still trying to make money. So it's not big pharma and it's not the whatever. It's this other person trying to make money. So I just hope I want people to have the experience like what I've had here about where can people actually care. And that's what I have, I'm so passionate about ways to well. on like, you know, telling people about this because I know you're legit and I know you care. Not everybody out there does. I just don't want people to have a bad experience.

And then, you know, we can't control that. But I tell people, when you go to do work on your house, I mean, my girlfriend would interview 10 contractors. She was remodels in the kitchen. I know. But with health care, we just blindly go to the first person. And I'm like, take the time to do a little research, find out like one of the things that happen. I won't say the company's name, but people. heard a company on a bunch of podcasts and they went out and they paid money for blood work.

But what they didn't find out is it didn't include a consult. You just got your blood work in a report and you were expected to like essentially read it yourself and make decisions. Yeah. And like it's a tool. And I get, I'm not throwing stones at that, but we need to make people aware like you do most likely, at least in the early stages, until you're advanced and really understand everything, which is really tough.

you know, you want counsel. You need somebody who's going to come from a place of compassion, like then he said earlier in empathy and help walk you through. Yeah. You guys truly care. That's the biggest thing. It's like it's not just a job. Right.

You know, you can tell when you go to talk to somebody about something and you're passionate about, and if they care or if they're just doing their job. Yeah. You know, and it's, I don't know, it's, I just keep thinking about, like, what if Joe wouldn't have moved to you? here what like because he came to austin then met you guys and you were on the podcast and it turned

into this crazy thing and then he swings by yesterday he looked jacked first of all and we are the same age so it's like pretty exciting but uh it's just pretty it's amazing what's happening yeah and that this like we're in this position here to impact so many people yeah that's exciting it's exciting. It's surreal. I remember we looked at each other at the jelly roll concert when he invited us and we're like, oh, yeah, we're here. Like, this is so wild. But the real, the biggest are like the people, I mean, there's so many crazy success stories. And the famous people are cool and it's fun and it is neat to meet those people that have been heroes like Aaron Rogers and stuff. But to see people who have truly been battling their weight their whole life, to see people with, with, with, the cellular treatments who are battling certain challenges and to have those success stories. I mean, we literally trade text every day because there are so many great successes, but it is also a grind and it is a beat down fighting the establishment. So when she sends me the, hey, we got somebody who he sent this email, it literally

makes my day. It makes my freaking day. And I know for Denise, that's what she lives for is that positive feedback. So you saying it means a lot. because I know I know you truly care that's why I've always loved working with you and like that's why I begged you to come here when I was starting this and like help me do this

yeah so it's exciting I think the next level too like like for me we talked about it yesterday is you know we talk about I know your husband was a fighter but like the big change even in the fighting because I mentioned the UFCPI you know they're getting so dialed in on specific people Like it used to be this one size fits all like oh you should do this you should eat this you should train like this now it's like because everybody is different as we talked about yesterday You drove me to that to the university but it's like looking at you specifically and it's not just this

Okay, this works for most people try it and I think that's a big change right now You know I talked about fighters doing that but this regular people too if with this option is it's incredible I don't know. It's exciting for me. Yeah. It's just a fun time. I'm pumped. It's fun. To me, it's so fun and it's rewarding and it's cool to see new stuff. And my favorite part of the job other than meeting people and like getting to hear the success stories is meeting people who are innovators and like unique in their field working on new things and getting to kind of get line aside into like what the future could be. That's pretty, that part's pretty fun. I love when I get through free child and they're like, hey, I'm developing this test. Yeah. You know, or we're going to be doing this. I want to talk to you because I want to take this to the next level. That's fantastic.

You know, we do mitochondrial testing. Now we have cancer testing. We know just all these epigenetics and things like that. Just another layer. And I make a joke, I'm the soundboard guy at a concert. I'm going to tweak and adjust. Make it just right. But it has to be very specific to you.

I have to meet you where you are. So I have patients that are just, I don't know where to start. I'm 100 pounds overweight. I don't exercise. Great. Let's start with this. There is no difference in care. There's no difference.

The treatment plan's different. We're going to step small steps. We're going to make small changes. Sometimes I use medications for that. But again, just to get wins on the board. You lose 60 pounds and now your hips don't. You can move that a little bit. Now you're more engaged with your family.

It adds up. My favorite story, though, this is several years ago. I was meeting with a follow-up patient. She's a perimenopausal patient. She had been complaining about all of her symptoms, and she was like, I'm just not myself. So I corrected her hormones. We're doing our follow-up visit,

and she's just crying the whole visit. She's like, I can't even tell you. My whole life is different. You've saved my life, my marriage, and she's just like, I'm a different person. I'm back to myself. She's like, I don't even want to look at the blood work. I just want to say, thank you.

And so I'm just kind of taken back by this. And so we do our blood work, and then she's like, hold on, I want to introduce you to someone. And then I just see it at the corner of the screen, this little teenager, her son's head popped in. He goes, is this her mom? And he's looking in the screen. And she's patting his back.

She's like, yeah, this is her. And he goes, I just want to thank you for giving me my mom back. And I was like, oh, and that story, every time I have a bad day or when things get a little, I feel a little beat down or bring him and I'm just we're fighting something. I'm like, oh, I remember her. I remember that moment. And his response to saving his mom and making that much of a difference. And that just super tartes me. Let's go again.

And here we go. Where's my next starfish? Yeah, I love it. That's incredible. Yeah, it's, well, I'm pumped. I'm pumped for the success you guys have had. I'm pumped to be involved in it. And I just want to say, I want to say thank you.

It's like I'm not like that person where I'm just trying to, I want to optimize and be like one or two percent better. So that's my, that's why I'm here. And it's just. And then also just to share, share the story of ways to well and what you guys offer. It's a, but selfishly, I'm like, I want to, you know, got to fight off my kids. They're coming to take the title. So I got to keep them at bay a little bit. Good luck.

Yeah. It's a, but just in general, it's just an exciting time. And I'm just very thankful to be here to know you guys. And thankful, of course, to Joe, just like, we all are here for, you know, the part he's played in our success. But, man, it's just, what a crazy time. And we're blessed. And I just want to so thank you guys for your friendship and for your friendship and for your help and for taking time out to do this podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having us and

thank you for trust in SVN. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Of course. Keep Cameron.