Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 130 - Shelby Houlihan

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Shelby Houlihan, an American middle distance runner, Olympian, and World Record holder in the 4x1500m relay. Shelby competed in the 5000m final at the 2016 Summer Olympics in Rio, finishing 11th. She is a 12-time US National Champion winning seven indoor and five outdoor titles in middle-distance events. Join us for a conversation about Shelby’s experience in the Olympics, how she got started in running, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Shelby: https://www.instagram.com/shelbo800/  Thank you to our sponsors: LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Timestamps: 00:00:00  Discovering a Love for Running at a Young Age 00:05:36  Shelby’s Parents 00:07:09  Arizona State College 00:11:47  Shelby’s Inspirations in Running 00:15:15  Showing Up & Putting in the Work 00:21:36  Shelby’s Training & Nutrition Regimine 00:24:34  Ad Break (LMNT & MUD/WTR) 00:26:58  World Record Beer Mile 00:28:53  Support From Other Runners  00:33:57  Supershoes in the Olympics 00:36:02  Training With & Without a Coach 00:40:23  Riding the Comeback Story 00:45:13  Shelby’s Goals with Running 00:47:07  What Shelby’s Loves the Most About Running 00:49:39  Shelby’s Favorite Coaches 00:52:41  Running Worlds in September 00:55:59  QA: F#$k, Marry, Kill: 1500, 5K, 10K? 00:58:17  QA: Categorizing Before & After the Ban? 01:00:52  QA: What Does Shelby Think About When Things Get Hard? 01:02:16  QA: Who Inspires You in Owning Their Own Story? 01:04:19  New Bow, Knife & Shoes: Recap of the Day 01:08:22  QA: During the Ban Did You Think You’d Quit Running? 01:10:32  QA: Who is Shelby? 01:12:31  Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammer Collective with Shelby Houlihan. How are you?

I'm great. Just got a tattoo. I know. I feel like in, so I hadn't met you before yesterday. I feel like we're basically best friends. Yeah, I mean, we have. have matching tattoos now. So we've sealed the deal.

Checked it. Come on, guys. So yeah, what a amazing couple days. I'm so pumped you're here. And we did all the cool stuff. It's like so amazing. Yeah. I've been having so much fun.

And I appreciate you having me out. It's been awesome. And yeah, it's been a lot of fun, a fun two days. Well, for those that don't know, I'll just go through real quick. So Shelby, what do they call you, an American, distance or American middle distance runner is that where it is? Middle distance distance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of do both. So I didn't I haven't even been up on all the stats, but now I'm getting pretty good. So 2016 Rio Olympian, right? Yep. You were young. 23,

4? 23. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. American record holder still in what was that? 15,500, which is fast, 355 you said or four? 354 and I think it's like 99. Yeah, just dimmed under. But that is in the 354s. So that's smoking fast. And the previous American record holder in the what, 5K?

Yeah. And what time was that? 1423. Man. Playa. So you were like just a legendary runner. How does that happen? I mean, when did you know you were good at running?

What a great question. I mean, I started running when I was five, and I just internally felt like I was going to be good at this, and I enjoyed it. And I saw my mom, like, she was a professional runner, so I just watched her do it. I grew up around the sport, and, you know, between people telling me, like, oh, you're good at this and, like, just me feeling like I, like, am. I don't know. I don't know if there was like a certain moment. It just kind of always felt like this is what I should be doing, you know. Yeah.

You were like, so when they do the gym, everybody runs a mile. What, you're probably laughing people. Yeah. They call me like the Energizer Bunny because I was just like I wouldn't stop. I would just keep going. Yeah. I bet. Yeah.

And then when did you start competing in track? In seventh grade. So I, yeah, when I started running, I was five years old. I did like one mile cross country races. So like just the little stuff. And then in seventh grade, I actually went out for track. I should have probably gone out in sixth grade, but I was too shy. So I like finally worked up the courage in seventh grade and went out for track then.

And then what events did you do then? Kind of everything. I did like the 100, 200, 400. But I was mostly focusing on the 800. Gotcha. And this was Iowa. Right. So like how.

Like how big of school? Did you go to a big school, small school? In Iowa, it was a big school. Yeah. It was like the 4A. Okay. That was like the biggest division. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I think there was about around like 300 or so people in my graduating class. Okay. Yeah. That's a pretty good size. Yeah. It's yeah, because you never know with those certain states. I mean like here, I had 24 in my graduating class. Oh, geez. Very small. Yeah. Very different. Yeah. So. So. So. That's a pretty good size. So you probably had good competition to run against.

Is that right? Yeah, I was, Iowa was like stacked when I was in school. I didn't really win too much at a state level until my senior year. Because like everyone was just like good. And finally once they all graduated, then I sort of winning stuff my senior year. But I think that was good because then it also taught me how to lose

and just like keep working hard. And like at some point I'm going to get there. Right. But, yeah, no, is, yeah, we had a lot of really good, especially 800 meter runners in Iowa at the time. And then so your senior year, I am assuming you made state probably in years before your senior year. I think every year, yeah. Every year. And then did you win your senior year?

Yes. Yep. I'm trying to remember if I won before that or not. But you for sure won the 800. So are you saying 800 at state? Yeah, I did kind of everything. My senior year I did the 400. I was a state champion of the 400 as well.

Okay. 800. Yeah, I think. I get, we have Drake relays and state and they kind of like mesh together because it's at the same stadium. Yeah. But yeah, no, I mostly, I did the 1500 as well. I also did the 3K. It was just kind of in everything.

Yeah. Did you guys, how did your team do? We were a good team. I mean, you scored a lot of points. Yeah. Yeah. We had some good sprinters and stuff. I think, yeah, it was, it was, we had a good four by four team, four by eight team,

sprinting team. So we were, we were one of the, one of the better schools. Yeah. And, and you said, and I didn't realize this either. Your mom was a professional runner. I didn't know that at all. You said a marathoner. So she was always, but your dad wasn't?

No. What was his role just being supportive? Yeah, they met running. Like at the time, I think he was training for a marathon, but she was the professional marathoner. Winning marathons? Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, so I just kind of grew up around the sport. And my older sister also is a professional runner. She ran the steeplechase and is now a coach. Okay. So yeah. And my uncles ran like they do timing for meets and stuff. So it was, I just really grew up around the sport, seeing it and watching my mom run every day for hour or two hours a day.

It's just like I could count on one hand, probably the amount of times that I've my mom take a day off. Really? Yeah. So she's a grinder. Yeah, she's a grinder. She's dedicated. Put the hammer down.

Yeah. Exactly. I love it because I have to keep hammering, which people know, you have, your family says, you know, put the hammer down, whatever when going gets tough, we got to win a race. So we got the hammers. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I love your story.

It's, yeah, it's just like, you know, it's all you've ever done, really. is run and it's got you a lot of success it's uh you know obviously with with life there's always ups and down so it's like just not always all gravy but it's all good um so then had your success then tell me about how you decided where to go go to college and you know take that next step as far as your career yeah i growing up in iowa it's very cold there i knew i did not want to stay in the Midwest. I really wanted to go somewhere warm, have nice weather. So I looked at a handful of different colleges, but I ultimately landed on Arizona State. I went to the hottest place I could. Yeah. But yeah, no, the coach there at the time, when I had a conversation

with him, I really wanted to make the Olympic trials the next year as a freshman. And not many coaches were like on board. Not that they like probably, I don't know, they just, Just like he, when I was talking to him, it was more like, we're going to do everything we can to get you there. And I was like, awesome. That's the mentality I want. I want someone that believes in me and is going to help me get to where I want to go. And just visiting there, it felt like home weirdly. I just knew that I was going to be happy at this school, even if I got injured or running didn't work out or whatever it was.

I just felt like I was going to be happy there. So that was a huge poll as well. And I think it was the best choice for me. Yeah. Well, that's good. It's, yeah, saying you want to make the trials, you were, what, 18, 19 at that time, is that right? And in the 1500? Is that what the 800?

In the 800. So what was your time, your best time in the 800? I'm just curious now. And then what was Olympic trials qualifying time? Yeah, my freshman year of college, I ended up running 203. And I think it was like maybe a half second off. making the trials. Okay.

Yeah. So I was like, I was very close. I wanted to run it again and just, it didn't happen. But yeah, I mean, I was happy with it. I felt like I got as close as I could. So that first time, first Olympic cycle, you didn't make the trials. Then you made it the next time. I made it and made the Olympic team, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's in the 5K. So we went from the 800 to the 5K. Yeah. I mean, but it just shows your range too because then now I know from following you and your story is you've also put down a super fast 10k time. And I mean, it was just by yourself, but like not very far off. I don't know what people in track say.

But I mean, within striking distance of the American record and the 10K essentially, and you just did it kind of by yourself just in a training round. Yeah. Yeah, it was a time trial. So I did have like one pacer kind of helping me hopping in and out. And, but yeah, I mean, it's an empty stadium and, you know, it's just not exciting by any means. No. Yeah, I ended up running 30, 31, which was, I can't remember what the American record was at the time, but it was like low 30s.

So I, it was a good effort. I was not super happy with it because I wanted to just, you know, just come in and like, I'm coming in a break 30. Yeah. I'm going to run in the 29s. I think I'm in like 2940 shape. And then running 30, 31. I was like, that sucked. Yeah, I get it.

It's a huge, it's an amazing effort still, especially during that or given those circumstances. But yeah, it's, I don't know. So I just think of the range from the 800 to the 10,000. That's, it reminds me of like these old stories about Prefontein because when he died, he, he had the American record and everything, I think, from, God, maybe it's the 2000 to the 10,000. So not quite the same range. But that reminds me of that story, like just being good at running, just pushing hard, pain,

endurance, and fast. And that's, I mean, that's you, right? Yeah, I try. I just like racing. I'm just like, I'll do anything. I don't care if it's the marathon. I'd love an 800. I'd love to get another 800.

I just like the competition. And I like the idea of like using every, like, tool in the way. the drawer. You know, like, I don't want to just be so focused on this one thing and only sharpening this one thing. I like to just have a challenge and try everything. Carry rocks up mounds, stuff like that. Exactly. I want to shy away from a challenge. No, that's one thing that I've learned about you is you're down for anything. So that's fun. Yeah. It's also, it's cool for running, but it's also fun for life. So I appreciate that about just your attitude and just, yeah, let's do it. Um, I was, you know, talking about your mom and her being a runner, was she your inspiration?

Or did you have, did you have runners, like, professional runners you followed and were fans of and inspired by them? My mom definitely was an inspiration. I mean, she was the closest person to me. She was, you know, I would run with her pretty much every day. And so she was a huge motivator for me. I was always, for whatever reason, like careful growing up. I didn't really have like idols or anything because I just didn't want to put people on that pedestal. I had people that like I really looked up to, you know, Jenny Simpson.

She was a good runner at the time and that was like the level that I wanted to be at. But I didn't want to put her on this pedestal because I ended up racing against her at some point. You know, so it was like I was always careful not to like to idolize. people but look at where they were at and want to be where they were at or better than them. So I'd say my mom definitely was a good motivator as far as like just pushing me to continue getting to those levels. And then like everybody has, well, I can't speak for you, but most, I'll just speak for myself. Like it was, we'd watch these people like a Michael Jordan or even like a Rambo or like

Just like these badass people you look up to as a kid, did you have, like, did you have, I don't know, when I think of like Jordan, that competitive fire and just to win, is that what drew you, I don't know, is that like the mindset you would have is like, I'm just going to win, I'm going to beat these people, I'm going to work harder, I'm just going to, I'm going to prove I'm the best. And was it that competition just basically with yourself or? what drove you to be the best? I think it was a little bit of everything. Definitely that like curiosity, like, how good can I be?

It's also that competitiveness of like, well, if they can do it, I can do it. You know, like just like, or at least want to see if I can and see how close I can get. But no, I mean, I really do think it's like that internal drive of just, I'm just curious to see how good I could be at this. I think I can be the best in the world. If that's true, we'll see. But like, let's find out. Yeah. Yeah.

No, it's, I don't know, in running such that, you know, everybody can run. So it's like you're basically, some of these sports, you know, I see like, you always, you see parents and you're like, gosh, what could I have my kid do that they could excel at? And usually running is one of the last on the list because everyone, the barrier to entry of running is low. So everyone runs. you're beating everyone in the world if that's it. If like as opposed to like, uh, polo or, you know, or even golf or tennis, you know, I mean, that's, that's a lot smaller group of people or skiing, like alpine skiing, who, that takes

money usually. But running. You just need to pair running shoes. It's just everyone. So when you say I want to be the best at running, that is tough. That is tough. So I love that attitude. Um, and,

I love the success you've had. It's like been, I don't know. And I don't know how we want to talk about. It doesn't matter. But you've been, as I said, ups and downs. So you're coming back. He had a four-year break, essentially. So how are you navigating through that? What I've been so impressed with is you're banned for four years. But during that time, from my perspective, you train your athletes. off. Did you? Yeah. I mean, is that and how? Because most people need everything going their way to put in hard work. So how do you, even with what you had to deal with, how did you still just show up and put in work? It was definitely not easy. And I would say a lot of the time I did not want to get out the door to go do it. It was not fun. All of the things that I loved about running, like,

I love the community aspect of it. I love going out to practice and workouts and, like, hurting with people. There's just, like, that bond that you create. It makes it super fun. I really like that. So that was a huge piece missing for those four years, and it just, like, made it not fun. But, yeah, I don't know. I think it's, like, a variety of different things.

I didn't know who I was without it. So, like, I couldn't even imagine stopping. So I was, like, I'm not. not going to be anybody or like who am I without this. So like almost the fear of like if I do stop then there's nothing. So that was a huge thing that kept me going for a long time. And, you know, the kind of like the you to people, you know, I knew that, you know, I did not deserve to be banned. And so it was like, I'm going to come back and I'm going to show you that I can come back and I'm still going to be good at this.

It's also that, like, curiosity. You know, I want to see how good I can be. I still feel like I have potential there. I still feel like I can be better than I am right now. And I, like, if I step away from this, I'll never know what it, like, what it could have been. Right. And I didn't want to live my life with regret and always wondering, like, what if I would have just stuck it out and come back?

Yeah, it's true. I mean, I have a run track, but I've been a huge. track fan so I know the team aspect is so powerful and it is you know I follow you know a lot of people friends with Emma Coburn and I see that like you know their training group is so tight knit and it's just like it's what you know then I see all these other people and they have these training camps and we saw the pros in town today running over by Hayward and they're people you know yeah they were my old team old team it's like 10 of them out there just like okay let's meet and do it so to that is such a huge part of the sport and a career as a runner is who's your team, who's your coach,

and you had, that was gone. I mean. Just like that. And for you to say that, yeah, you wanted to come back to whatever to the or whatever, that sounds good. That's hard though. That might get you through a day. Yeah.

Like, yeah, I'm going to show them. That's one day out of, well, 1,200 days, 1,300 days. 1,300 days for four years, you know, 365 days in a year. And it's like, it's really hard because as you said, it's hard to run anyway. It's just getting out the door for anyone. There's days, most days, most people are like, I don't want to do this.

Then you add all those other challenges. For you to be able to do that for 1,300 or how many days it was on your own, it's like, that's what's blown me away. That's been, that's what's blown me away about your story more than anything. Because if you, you know, people can say whatever they want. But if you look at the, if you're just objective, you've been good or elite best in whatever in the field your whole life forever. And so that four years and people can say whatever, it's like, no, you were, you've been elite

this whole time. It was nothing changed. Yeah. It's just like, so what are we talking about? But the point is, is like, to put in the work and come back after four years on your own with no coach and no team and to get your first world medal a silver at the world indoor championships just a couple weeks ago, right? Amazing. I mean, how? I still don't.

And I was, you know, we have spent a lot of time together in the last couple days. But I'm like, I don't care what anybody says. that gives you an edge over so many other runners because of what you've been through. You're gritty. You're tough. And they haven't had to go through that. You did. And you've come out on the other side.

And you're still winning. Yeah. That must feel good. It does feel good. And it's like, even though it was really hard to get out the door a lot of the times, I'm so happy that I stuck it out and I did because it's paying off. And I'm like, I know, that's how running is. you just stack, you know, months, years of training together.

And if you're able to stay healthy and just keep that dedication, that persistence, it'll pay off eventually. Maybe not like the first time or like the 30th. Like it might just take time. But if you're, if you just stick it out and keep showing up and trying at some point, it'll pay off. So I think that was really the big motivator. Like if I stop, if I don't train these four years,

am I going to be able to come back at that level? I'm going to be four years behind everybody else. So I need to like at least stay in that zone so that I can come back easier. And that was I guess a huge motivator too is like I want to give myself the best shot at coming back. So even though I don't want to get out the door, I know I need to. And at that point, you know, like I've been doing this my whole life. This is a habit. It's it's never been a question of whether I'm going to get out the door.

like, well, okay, I don't want to do it today, but I'm going to do it today because that's what I do. Yeah. So what I hear is like part of the work was I got to keep this base, you know, but aside from that, you were also doing super hard workouts at times, right? Yeah. I mean, because how else would you be able to come back so quickly after the band ended and win a world medal unless you were like pushing? So some of it, yeah, it's like I got to do this because I don't want to lose four years. I don't want to lose this steam or this momentum. But also, like, you must have been doing super hard workouts at the same time or every once and a while.

Yeah. And then have you always been shredded because you're, like, shredded? I always just been athletic. Yeah. That's pretty nice. Like, how disciplined is, like, I know training, but do you think about food or is it, do you just train so hard that you don't have to really, you know, get that deep into nutrition or how does that fit in?

I would say like the last four years I haven't been, I've really just been trying to get the work in. I haven't been getting in the gym. I haven't been, I've been kind of focused on nutrition just because I'm, after everything that's happened, I'm scared of what I'm eating. So there was that.

But I would say my biggest thing was just to get out the door, just to get it done. As I'm getting more into competing again, nutrition is a huge thing and just like eating clean. You know, I'm making most of my food and trying to eat healthy food before I was just like, it didn't matter. So I was like, it's fine. I'm getting the work in at least, you know. So I just tried to do the things that I liked to do. And I tried to find ways to make it fun by, you know, at some point I started going.

going to local run clubs and just like running with some of those people just to have that sense of community and some fun and like mix it up. So those are some things that I was doing to try to like keep it like keep myself going. Yeah. Stay sane. Sort of. I mean, I mean, we're it is such a, you know, running as a community type event usually it's like or endeavor. And so yeah, being around people that's usually everybody loves to run with. with somebody, you know, so I get that. You had that a little bit taken away from you where, you know, the ability to compete was taken away,

but even some of that community was taken away in some ways. And yeah, so I've just been impressed with, I just can't imagine how hard that was, because what you do was already hard, as I said, everybody runs to rise to the top and running, you're a freak, but then to have to do it on your own is crazy. But we also forgot, I forgot one accolade. The beer, mile is it world record? Yeah. Like women's world record beer mile? Forgot that one. Yeah. Yeah.

This is the best one. So that's impressive. And you got one tomorrow you're running. Yes. So that's going to be fun. Yeah. I haven't really been practicing. So well, I mean, I got the running part down. I haven't practiced. I haven't been practicing chugging. So we'll see how that goes. But, Yeah, I think that was a, I did that a couple years ago. I got to do the Beer Mile World champs and it was so fun. And it was like just something to look forward to and to train for and practice for. And the community was awesome. And I felt like that helped me because I had a lot of anxiety around running after everything

that's happened. So like even going back and putting myself into the running community was terrifying. I would show up to tracks and there'd be runners there and I would be having a panic attacks. I'm just like, I don't know, do they know who I am? Like, do they know my story? Are they supportive? Are they judging me? Exactly.

Yeah. So like that taking a, like kind of dipping my toe in and like, okay, let's start with the beer mile. Let's start there. You know, that was a big step for me just to put myself back out there, do a beer mile. It went really well. I got the world record. So that was cool. And then, yeah, I think it's just held a special place in my heart and I want to keep doing them, even though they're like, dumb.

But like, I don't know. It's just it's a really cool community and I want to continue being a part of it. Well, they accepted you. Yeah. So it's like, that's a start. Yes. Yeah, because it's like all people want to do is like have somebody they can call their whatever, their group of whatever, not judging me. You know, and so I get that.

But what I've enjoyed seeing also, and I've noticed and I asked you about a few runners, but your reception back has seemed like it's been positive from other runners. And I saw some after races and I saw other girls hugging you and that was cool. I'm like, you know, I like seeing that. Yeah. So it sounds to me like you've got support too. I think so. I think, you know, people online are the loudest people.

and it's easy to hide behind a keyboard for sure. And I think it's been surprising that it has been so positive. It's been like neutral or positive. I haven't had any negativity in person yet, which I'm kind of shocked about. Pleasantly surprised. That's been great. Obviously online, it's like a little bit of a different story. And that's what the, that was my only exposure to the community with the last four years was the online presence.

Yeah. So I was really scared. to come back into it. Pretty toxic, yeah. Yeah, it's super toxic. So it's been, I think there's a lot more support than I was even aware of. So it's been really cool to come back and see that. Yeah, I mean, I kind of, I don't understand, you know, what you've been going through, but I do understand how people like, they love to judge. And the people who believe in you are going to always believe in you, to people, because they probably know you, to be people who don't are going to be the loudest detractors. And it's like, you know, hunting in some way, I hate to tie everything back to my stupid world.

But I just know, like, I remember there's little things that can happen where, let's see, there's something like in Colorado, if you're hunting there, no matter how old you are, you have to have proof of a hunter safety card like you take when you're 12 years old. So long story short, if you don't have that, and I've got a frog in my throat, but anyway, if you don't have that, even after you've hunted your whole life, you can get a ticket like, like from a game warden. And some people would see that. And to me, and I could get one, if I forgot my hunter safety card, I could get a ticket. And people would discount everything I've done. All these animals, all the success I've had, it would all be tainted because I forgot my hunter's safety card one time. And for some people, some people would be like, oh, that's people make mistakes. It's just like, how do you control, you know, I control everything. And some people would be like,

oh, yeah, he's been cheating his whole life. You know what I mean? So it's just like, it's always that it's either black or white and there's never any gray. And it's just like, no, I actually know, I forgot my wallet is on the table. And I wasn't doing anything. I just forgot. So I get how you can do everything right for a million years, for me for decades, all thrown out with one mistake. So it's like I just, to me, it's like the people who I see that are,

have been in your corner, those are the, from what I've read, it's like, those are the people who know who you are. And it's like, I've seen those clips and they're just like, no, I have no doubt, you know, Shelby's done everything right. And the people who don't know or maybe have maybe a chip on their shoulder about something, maybe you've beat them. I don't know. Those are going to be the loud ones.

But just getting through that is what I've been so impressed with. Again, the work, but I'm so glad that like the reception has been positive, but the success has been there. And it's like when I think of it is, yeah, you lost four years of people would say it was prime time for you for sure but what if like uh what if maybe the 10,000 or the 5,000 is where you're, that's where your calling has been. And generally the older you get or you got a little more time on those longer distance races, right? To be elite. Yeah. I mean, maybe it was all for a reason. And maybe that's where you're going to go and win a Olympic gold. Who knows? Yeah. I mean, who knows? I'm, I'm,

I'm here for it. Like I said, I will not shy away from the challenge. I have no problem moving up in distance. I still have some just unfinished business. I think in the 15. And I want to go back and like stay on the track for a little bit just to see if I'm still competitive there. But yeah, I'm excited to do a 10K, do the longer distances and really see is this something, like, is this where I should be at? Yeah, I don't know yet.

It'll be fun to find out. I'm excited. I'm always like, no matter how shitty it seems, everything happens for a reason, whatever the reason was, who knows? But maybe it was, maybe it's going to work out and it's going to be amazing. But I was curious when you said that. So unfinished business in the 15, you had the American record 35499. What happened in the Olympics? Like what, I know the Olympics is not really a good gauge because sometimes you have slow races in the Olympics, right?

But what won it this year? Was it was it 350? Or was it slower? I cannot remember off the top of my head. Yeah. I mean, but that's with super shoes, right? Which has kind of changed the game a little bit. Yeah.

So who knows what that's going to do to your performance? Yeah. No, I've always been pretty hesitant to use the shoes, especially when, you know, four years ago they first came, they were kind of first becoming a thing. Not everyone had them. And there was this stigma of like, are they fair? I don't know.

I felt like they weren't. So I never chose to wear them. But yeah, I think now that they're becoming much more accepted throughout the track world, everyone's kind of using them. And you're seeing these faster times. So I think at this point, I need to evolve with the sport and wear them. And I have. So I'm curious to see.

what that's going to translate to in terms of my performance. But yeah, it's interesting. It's that line right of like technology. Is it how like we need it to continue growing and involving as a sport? But like at what point is this too much? Yeah, it's kind of all arbitrary but yeah. Or subjective. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting.

It's interesting to talk about because then it made me think and we were talking about this yesterday of Zola Bud back in the day, you know, famously She tripped a Eugene athlete here, Mary Slaney in the Olympics. But she ran barefooted. And it's like, could you imagine what she could have done with super shoes as opposed to barefoot? It's insane. Yeah. I mean, I wonder how much faster she could have been.

Yeah, actually, though. So crazy. Yeah. But yeah, amazing things, sports changing. Performances are getting better, faster. But, man, I'm excited to see what she can do for sure. I mean, I was curious that we talked about teams and how important that is. How have you done what you've done with no coach?

It's like how important is having a good coach if you've had the success without a coach? Yeah, I mean, I have had a coach. It just hasn't, they haven't been there with me. Okay. Yeah. So I did, my sister actually has been coaching me the last couple years. but we haven't been in the same location most of the time. So it's just, you know, send text workouts and then I'll just go to the track by myself.

No one's out there. No one's holding a stopwatch. And I have to go get the workout in. That's been super hard. It makes such a difference just having one person out there holding a stopwatch and giving me splits. There's so much more like mental energy that goes into having to check splits, make sure I'm on pace. and, you know, it's hard, but it's, I've figured out how to make it work. I think it just becomes a new normal at some point.

It was really hard the first two years to be okay with it. And I think one of my strong suits is my, like, mental abilities is to, like, just push through things. And the first two years, I was honestly questioning, like, did I lose it? Like, I would get into these workouts and get into that. that hurt zone and where I would normally be able to push past it, it was just like, the thoughts were just like, why am I doing this? Why am I out here? This doesn't matter.

You know, this doesn't count for anything. I'm not going to go train for anything. And so I would, you know, just full-blown pity party. And I'd end up either not being able to finish the workout or just needing to adjust. And so it was, I think, a huge learning moment for me to just like learn how to get myself a little more grace, maybe adjust my standards for what I was doing. But it was, yeah, the first two years were really tough. I think the third and fourth year, it just, I learned how to adjust to it and make it

into my new normal. Again, that has to give you an edge. Just that awareness of what you've been through and like how hard that was and you're on the cusp of like, maybe this is it. Maybe I don't have it. Maybe it lost my edge. to not losing your edge, fighting through. It's like degradiness that shows,

that has to like translate into performance and racing. Because in racing, that digging deep and who wants it more, which is sort of what that was, that determines who's winning, who's losing, who's making teams, who's not. It's like who wants it the more. And you showed how bad you want it. It's like, man,

that has to, that's going to show itself. Has to. Maybe it already has. I think it has. It's given me an interesting perspective too. Like I find that I'm not getting as nervous for these races and like they still have a lot of meaning. But, you know, I've going through, I've gone through, it doesn't matter what you do or

what accolades you have at some point when you retire. You're not in the sport anymore. The sport's going to move on and they're going to forget about you. And like that kind of is sad in some ways. like that's the reality of the situation. It's at some point you're going to kind of be forgotten and the sport's going to move on to the next fast person that's running fast times. And that was humbling in a way to go through the last four years. But it's, it's taken a lot of pressure off of me going into these races now or I'm like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what I do.

I mean, I'm just out here for myself and I'm having a good time. And if I run awesome, that's going to be amazing for me. And if I don't, then I'll learn something from it. And people will talk about it for like a day or two and then they're going to move on to the next thing. Yeah. So I think that's been given, it's given me a greater perspective going into just coming back into these races. Yeah, I get that. It's just like, I wonder if, I mean, it's easy now after the fact, but like your story, because everybody's like, okay, what's, What's this person's story? I wonder if the ups and downs you've had makes a better story.

You know what I mean? If somebody's like, I don't know. It's just like, because I even wonder, would we have had the last two days together if that wouldn't happen to you? Because probably not. I was like watching your stuff and following your journey because I'm like, Man, she's going through a lot. I wonder how she's going to do.

It had me, I was vested in the story or invested in it. And it's like, I cared. So people like, what makes people care? Is it because somebody wins all the time or somebody has this huge thing? And then you're like, how are they going to come back from this? So it's almost like an opportunity you wouldn't have had. Yeah, you lost opportunities. but maybe this opportunity, and one of the films on you is called, I think, Rising, right?

So, and that's the whole premise to what I'm talking about is like, how are you going to come back and how does, what's your story going to be? And you're still telling it. But it almost makes a full or more enrich, more like, wide ranging story because of all you've been through. Yeah. That makes me care. That makes me want to hear. how you've done it and I'm not the only one. So it's like, could this be a positive?

Yeah. I think there's been a ton of positives through it. Obviously, it was a super negative situation. But kind of like you were saying, like everybody loves a comeback story for sure. And I think, you know, I'm, if I can get myself a bit of credit, I feel like going through this,

I've flourished as a runner and as a person by just like going through this. I needed to figure out who I am without this. I feel like I did that. I like I really grew as a person through all of this. And yeah, I don't know. I'm really proud of how I've handled everything. And I now know that I'm super tough and I can like get through shit. Yeah.

And I kind of feel like at this point, I'm like, I don't know what else you can throw me that I can't handle. And that's great to know that, you know, but I don't know. I'm excited to continue writing the comeback story, though. Yeah. No, it's great. When you were talking about that, it made me think of, has it kind of showed you like who you knew you could count on and who you were like, oh, I thought we were, I thought, well, to me, I'd say, I thought we were boys, but I guess we're not. But it's like, did you have people? You're like, wow, I thought we were, thought they were friends. And now, and then also maybe some people are like, well, I know that I can really count on

that person now because they're still here. I mean, did you, was that a realization you've had? A little bit. It's funny. I don't feel like I like lost any friends through this. I think everyone that really knew who I was was like, that's bullshit. We know that you didn't do that. Right.

So I don't feel like I lost any friends. if anything, my friendships strengthened a lot. You know, I had people that were just consistently checking in on me just to see how I was doing. And like that went a long way for me just to, and I like, I'm someone that I don't like leaning on people or asking for help. I really just want to do it myself. Independent.

Yeah. And that, going through that really, it forced me to lean on people. And, you know, I was, I cried with my friends for like the first time ever. And just like, it just felt like because we went like, I went through this and they went through this with me. We almost created this unshakeable bond of going through this trauma, essentially. And in my family, you know, they were there with me throughout everything. And they've been super helpful in the last four years. I was just like, hey, like, yeah, you can come crash at our house for six weeks.

Like, cool. Yeah. So, and I got to spend a lot more time with my, my family, my friends. So I think through that, if anything, yeah, like I said, I didn't lose any friendships, but I strengthened a lot of them. That's good. I mean, that seems positive. Yeah.

All positive. Well, how does, like, as far as, so you're looking for, I don't know, you don't have a team, right, or a coach or any sponsors. So what's business-wise, what's the next? step for you. I mean, just keep winning and hopefully something happens or what? That's kind of always been my plan, right? I was like, I don't know, you can come up with all like the set plan of like, oh, this is what needs to happen, but shit happens. You can't plan it. I guess I just want to keep having fun, making this fun again, running fast and, you know, hopefully things will fall into place

at some point. I don't know when that'll happen. You know, like I, I, need to figure out a sponsor situation. I would love to have teammates again. Like I just feel like you can push yourself so much harder when someone's right next to you and get more out of yourself and more out of your teammate. I like that. So I really, a huge priority for me is just finding people to work out with consistently, whether that's creating a team or joining one.

But yeah, I mean, sponsors would be nice. I'd like to get paid for what I'm doing. are you making money right now? I mean, it's been nice to compete again and, like, do well, so I'm getting some prize money and stuff. Oh, okay. But, yeah, I mean, for the last four years, I've largely been relying on some savings or just like, you know, I did DoorDash for a while or like cat sitting and like stuff like,

just like odd and end jobs. And I, you know, I've been living kind of as a nomad the last two years. I haven't been paying rent. But, yeah, I've figured out a way to make you work. But, yeah, a sponsor would be nice. I bet. Yeah. Yeah.

What, I mean, you talked about it's nice having a teammate and pushing each other. What is it, I don't know, maybe we talked about this earlier, but what do you love most about running? What is the, what's the love? I think two things come to mind. It's definitely that community aspect. I when I was on you know, Bowerman, the team that I was on before, it was such a close-knit, like it just felt like family. There's your best friends you hung out with all the time. All the time.

We live together half the time at altitude camps, you know? So it's just like you got to know each other on such a deep level. And then to like go out and you're working hard and just trying to get the most out of yourself every workout, trying to help your teammates get the most out of themselves. I liked that relationship. And every workout day, I was like, hell yeah, it's a workout day. I was so excited. Yeah. So I loved that part.

It made it so fun. I was just, I was getting paid to do something that I absolutely loved. And so it was awesome. You obviously do for free. Yeah. I would do it for free. I've been doing it for free for the last four years.

I'd do this for free. It was like, well, would you? Because you have. Yeah. I have. I have been. So it's true. I've been doing it for free.

No one's watching. No one's holding the soft watch. But yeah, I mean, I think the other piece of the love is just the curiosity. I really just, like I said before, I believe that I can be the best in the world. I don't need that to happen, but I want to see if it's there. Yeah, if that's real. Yeah, and if it's not, that's totally fine. Like, I don't need it, but I want to see and find out if that's going to happen.

Yeah, I totally get that because I do listen to some running podcast. One of them, I wish I could think of, there's two of them, but one is called the Boulder Boys. Have you ever heard of that podcast? I don't think I have. Anyway, it's just like a bunch of runners. They all live together. So it's like when you're saying that, we live together, you know, they do workouts

together. There's another one too. So there's Boulder Boys, which is in Colorado. Then there's another group that's in Utah and they kind of talk shit about each other a little bit. I think it's kind of tongue and cheek. point is it's like they are a team they do all this training they're hanging out together all the time so i get that when and then when that changes when it's gone it's like man that's a big big difference yeah but yeah so i i i get that i just didn't know um yeah yeah it again i've been so

impressed with this um but i was thinking too so you talked about the importance of a coach like who's been the best coach you've had and um yeah what what did what did they do for you that's a great question i i i my only pro coach that i've had is the jerry um shoemaker shoemaker yeah so that was when i was part of bowerman he he he's been the only coach that i've had And it worked really well for me. It's just a lot of intensity, a lot of volume. Just like just go run and get better, essentially. And like try to do it faster than every, like everyone else is doing.

And I liked that. So I think if you can say. Can you how to challenge you or what? Yeah. Like, well, he wasn't, you know, I've had coaches where I'll go out too hard and like, hey, that's not the split that I wanted you to do. And Jerry's kind of like, yeah, you look good. Like keep going.

And I like that. Like, let's find the line. Right. So it really worked well. And I was, if you can stay healthy, it's, you know, hopefully going to work well. And I was able to stay healthy through that. And it was paying off. I was, you know, setting American records.

Yeah, I was crushing it. And I felt like I was just kind of like starting to gain that momentum. So I'd say Jerry is definitely one. As I've gotten older and through the last four years, my sister. was such a great coach for me. And she was much more collaborative of like, you know, I'd text her and be like, hey, I know I have Hills today, but I'm just not feeling excited about that. And I'm having a hard time getting out the door.

And she's like, no problem. Like, let's do this instead. Does this sound more exciting to you? And I was like, yeah, okay, let's do that instead. That's good. So I think having someone that collaborated with me and, like, gave me that freedom or just like, hey, I want to go do this vacation trip. Like, is that fine?

Yeah. I'll do workouts there. Like, you know, in Europe somewhere. And she's like, yeah, go for it. You know? So it's, I think the flexibility was super nice. So I think those two people for me, they just were, they're different, but I needed that difference at those times.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like, Jerry reminds me of like when you're trained in a racehorse sometimes, if you give it rains, it'll go, right? So he would like give you the reins. And like, yeah, your splits were a little fast, but he's like, that's all right. That's it. We like that. We like that hard to push to sometimes too hard. Yeah. And yeah, it reminded me of, of horse training a little bit. Like, just let that horse go. And that's kind of like you, you know, just let you go. But yeah, it's interesting. Because that coaching and

the team aspect. Yeah, big part of running and just like elite running. So that's why it's been so impressive for you to be able to do it on your own. It's incredible. Yeah, so it's a how do we get, how do we get these sponsors? What's, I mean, a world silver. What, what do you, what do you want? Yeah. What more do you want for me? 17. 17. It's like, Come on, guys. So, yeah, I mean, I said, I'll sponsor you. I'll be your sponsor. It's like, we'll start to get this ball rolling.

But, yeah, pretty, I don't know. I want you to kick ass, get sponsors. I want you to be like the biggest star. That would be, to me, that's how you cap the revenge tour. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, that would be awesome. And if I can end this year with a gold medal at Worlds, that would be, you know, that would definitely be great.

So outdoor worlds is when? End of September. End of September. And you'll be running with the 15 and the 3? I'll try for the 15.5K. Oh, 15.5. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah, the three is usually just for indoors. Oh, I see. So, yeah, you have to either 15 or the 5K. Outdoors, like the big job. That is different. Yeah. I've in the past have doubled usually. I'll do the 15 and the five.

And they give enough time to do that double? Usually. Yeah. Yep. So that's, it's been doable. And I don't know that the schedules come out yet. So I'm going to have to see if that's still doable.

But yeah, I need to, I'm going to try. We'll see what happens. How do you get in? Like, are you running pre Fontaine, I think you said? So how do you get in?

You have to be invited? Or do you ask them? I mean, typically, I have an agent. A lot of runners have agents. So like they kind of like, hey, this is the races. Why isn't your agent getting new sponsors?

He's working on it. Let's go, dude. The sponsors are, you know, being hard. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, you can get invited to races. The agents can ask like, hey, this is what we want to do. It just kind of depends. Yeah, because I'm saying, you got a story.

Do these, what are these meat? These means want nobody to care about the runners or, hey, they care about you. good or bad, let's get you in the meat. Yeah. Right? Right. I don't know. I don't, I get there's like some controversy around it, but like, come on, guys.

Like, I'm good at what I do here. Like, what do you want? It's not a charity case. Yeah. Like, whether you believe me or not, I still did the four year ban. I know. Like, you're going to just continue punishing me? Like, I don't know.

And people, whatever race you do, people will be tuning in to find out. Yeah. Where you fit in and what happened and, you know, how you're doing. And it's like, and how you can compare, how you compete or they want to see you lose or they want to see you win because you get your, it's like, that's what it's all about. It's like the story. Yeah. It's like, what is it? The fucking lore, right?

For the lore. For the lore. It's like, are these freaking track organizers retarded? It's like, can we say that? I don't get it. Yeah. Let's. All right.

Well, I want you in the big meets. How about that? I appreciate that. Me too. So we always go to, God, we'd f*** around too long with tattoos and all sorts of shit. Now I've got to get you to the airport. But we always have from the peanut gallery questions.

And normally we have to cut these out because. I'm scared. Yeah. You got to at least ask you the classic. Yeah. Oh, what's the classic? Let's hear some. Let's hear some questions for Shelby.

Okay. Let me get him here. All right. So. Hit me with it. The tradition is to ask the guest. Mary Kill. All right.

Here we go. Starting off strong. Mary Kill. $1,500. 5K. Yeah. And then 10K. Okay.

Wait a sake. Yeah, okay. I guess that could work. Yeah. Oh, this is, yeah. Because you got to think about the future too. I know. This is actually pretty hard.

Yeah. I think I want to marry the 15 because I just love that race. Yeah. You have to like really execute it perfectly. And you're the American record holder. And I'm the American American holder. So, you know, I got to pick that one. I'm struggling in between these two.

I've never, like, really raced a 10K before. Right. So it's... You can't kill that then. I don't know, do you? I know. I didn't. What if that's the thing?

And you killed it. The time trial sucked. It was so hard and like... I think I heard you say you're never, or like you thought you'd never do it again or hurt so bad. I mean, I'm going to do it again. But like, yeah. But like, it was, it was going into it like, I can do this. I'm going to be good at this.

And then it just, it just hurt, you know. 30 minutes of pain. Yeah. Yeah. Um. I think I'm going to fuck the 10K though And I'm going to kill the 5k Okay

All right the future's a 10k The curiosity for the 10 is there You know like I heard the 10's a good time The lust the lust is there I like it I like it How do you go about kind of carment cart Geez would you like to buy a vowel

Yeah it's the headphones I sound like Larry Is he's the boss How do you go about categorizing before the ban and after. Do you feel like it's a before and after thing? Or do you feel like you're chasing your old version or you're flourishing into this new person or how do you categorize those two? It's definitely a before and after. But I have, I feel like I've tried to really let go of the before. Because that's, yeah, I don't know. I'm somewhat comparing myself, but I've really

tried to also let it go of like, yeah, I'm not going to be the same runner that I was four years ago. Like I'm much different as a person. I've grown through that adversity. Obviously, I'm four years older, so we'll see what that is. But that doesn't mean that I can't be better than I was four years ago. So I think I've just really tried to like, it is what it is. I can't change it. I can control what has going to happen now and like how I'm going to progress forward. And I'm trying not to really dwell on. Yeah, like I said, like, it doesn't mean I can't be better than I was before. So I'm going to see what that looks like.

Yeah, I mean, because you trained. So when I think of track, I always think of Emma, like when you're not competing, there's a lesser chance you're going to push injury. Because I know, like, she broke her leg during the steeple. She pulled her hamstring and tried to race through it. So if you were like flirting with injury and training, you wouldn't have to push it because you didn't have a race. Yeah. You know, so maybe because you weren't pushing your body when you shouldn't, which is kind of the name of the game sometimes in track.

Like you got a little niggle, you got something, but you got to show up. You got to get paid, right? And it's like you didn't have to do that. Yeah. You had four years of making good decisions on training. Yeah. It was the healthiest four years that I had. Right. So maybe it wasn't as bad as like when you say, oh, I took four years out of the prime of my career.

It's like, well, maybe you would have lost some of that anyway because training does take it out of you and racing takes it out of you. Yeah, I mean, who's to say that I wouldn't have been injured for four years? Right. It's all how you frame it. Yeah. So we're just choosing to frame it in a positive manner. When we were doing The Rock, you asked Cam what he thinks about when things get hard. What do you think about? Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, these guys seem like idiots, but, and they are. They're taking notes.

But, yeah, that's all. Never mind. Yeah, they're just idiots. It's very positive in my head. It's definitely like, you got this. You can do this. So we're different. Yeah.

I was like listening to your answer. I know. Yeah, we're just different. There's no good or bad. Because I hate everyone. Yeah, you're just like, with them all, everybody.

Yeah. I'm just like, oh, I'm having so much fun out here. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely more positive, good,

like, I can do this. I feel good right now. I'm relaxed. You've got a girl. Yeah, you know, positive self-talk.

I definitely, I try to like body scan and like, like, relax my body. And continue, like, pushing forward.

But, it kind of goes back to that regret. Like, I know if I slow down, I'm going to not be happy with what I did. So I'm going to just like keep pushing. And if I blow up, I blow up. It's fine. Like I'll just try again the next time, you know. So positive.

Yeah, positive. Okay. Trying to pick the good ones here because I know we're running out of time. But who are individuals either in the sport or out of the sport that inspire you, especially when it comes to kind of owning their story? that's a really tough question yeah she didn't say a good question oh man owning their story so controlling the narrative or like or just creating their own narrative on this is yeah kind of like what kind of like what you've talked about is you know own it it's uh you know redemption era yeah

yeah you know the one that comes to mind um I always, I don't know if I ever say her name. Ellie or L. period. She's another 1,500 meter runner. And she's, you know, gone and have had a baby and came back and she was killing it. And I thought that was like super cool. And she's like, yeah, I don't care. Like, I'm just going to go like have a family because this is what is important to me.

And right now she's pregnant and like she's out this year. So it's like I really have a lot of respect for that where like that's not the like typical thing that. that runners do, especially, like, in their prime. They really put their career first. And I like that she was like, I can do both. Yeah. You know, and actually was like, like, killing it. Yeah, she was.

She was at the top of the game. Yeah. I mean, like breaking American records and then was out being pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. No, I have a lot of respect for her. I get that. Yeah.

I think she's like from the Midwest too, is she? She's, I believe, I want to say, like Vermont. Oh, okay. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I thought, for some reason I thought like farming or something like that. Yeah, she's like the dairy cows.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's Vermont. It's definitely the East Coast. Gotcha. Yeah. No, I'm familiar with that story too. And yeah, it's hard not to respect that.

Yeah, definitely. Hoping your answer brings this full circle. What's something outside of your sport that you're excited about right now? Hmm. I have been getting a master's degree in sports psychology. No, that was, that's the wrong answer. That wasn't the answer you're really good for me. He said full circle, so we're, so no.

I'm really into rocks right now. No, you were wrong. You're wrong on your math. I immediately went to rocks. Let me just give you a hint. My new hobby is bow hunting. Okay. Okay. That's cool. Really?

Yeah. No, it was so crazy. You know, I picked it up yesterday and the people told me I was a natural. So honestly, though, like it was so much fun. Yeah. And I'm like, I could definitely see how I could be addicted to this. This is just, you know, you're wanting to get it perfect. You are so good. I will just keep doing it until I get it. I mean, you wasn't, didn't she look like, I seriously don't know if we've had anybody. As fast as, I don't want to say master, but pretty damn close, but as you, you were, oh, thank you. The quickest learner we've had. Yeah, that's what I strive for.

Shooting so good. And Wayne, he does this every day. He's doing it right now, teaching new people how to shoot a bow. And he was impressed. You were so good. Oh, I appreciate that. No, it was, I had so much fun. And, yeah, no, it was awesome.

I'm definitely wanting to keep, I want to keep doing that. for sure yeah you are so when you started to answer that question is about a map about the the as far from the opposite of master's degree is bow hunting it's like you couldn't get yeah and be getting smart and and yeah being accomplished or bow hunting so we i'm either helping people or killing things yeah exactly right so we go with bow hunting here and then like on in that regard We have all sorts of presents for you. So the new Hoyt Bow, we got this because when you do kill and not help people,

you need a knife to get those animals skinned. And then you got a new shirt with the bear. Oh, sick. Montana Knife Company shirt. That looks awesome. And then also because you had those stupid Nikes today that won't sponsor you right yet. Yeah. We got you some new trail shoes.

So look at all this. Oh, no, I appreciate that. That's so cool. Yeah, this is awesome. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Oh, it's been so fun hanging out. You've been, I mean, you're like the perfect guest because down for anything.

I'm a yes person. Want to get a tattoo? Yeah, let's get a tattoo. It's like, what? Yeah. We weren't even being serious. I'm down for an impulse tat. I loved it.

Loved it. Here for the lore. Yeah, exactly. It's, we've had. I mean, I can't, the time, everything we've done today, I can't even roll, or like in the last two days, you can't really think, but we carried the rock up the mountain. We shot a bow. We ran Spencer's today. We, what else?

Oh, we went to OPA for breakfast. We got tattoos. We did podcast. We ate, that was an elk burger you ate, by the way, ate hamburgers. We hung out. What else did we do? I could say sauna and cold plunge. Oh, sauna and cold plunge.

How could we forget that one? I mean, we've done it all. Yeah. We fit a lot into two days. That is, it's been so fun. I'm so thankful. I'm so happy you came. And I feel like, you know, the BFF is like kind of solidified.

Absolutely. So thank you. Shelby, it's been incredible. Did you guys have any other questions, by the way? We got one minute. Or no, we got zero minutes, but go. I want to hear what you say. Was there ever a moment during the band that you thought?

I don't, there you go. Can you hear me? Yeah, we can now. Yeah. Was there ever a moment during the band that you thought maybe I'm not a runner anymore? And if so, how did you get through that? I think this last year, I really got to a point where I had other things that I was interested in and other passions. And it really hit me.

Like I was watching a, I think I was watching Prefontein and they were running super fast and I just found like, I don't care like as much as I did before. Like I wasn't just like, you know, I don't know. I don't know how to describe that exactly. It was just like, this isn't really all that I am anymore. And that's, that was really cool. Was it scary? I don't, it kind of felt freeing, honestly. Whereas like, I don't have to come back to this.

Like, if I don't want to do this anymore, I don't have to do it. Like, I, you know, it almost felt very freeing from everyone else's expectations of like, oh, but you could be so good at this if you, like, did this. And I was just like, I don't care. Like, so yeah, I think that was really in a lot of ways freeing. And it was able, I was able to come back to it really just running for myself instead of other people or what other people wanted me to do. but in order to get to that point, you know, I had to go through a lot of lows to even get to a point where I didn't really identify only as a runner anymore, you know. So it's quite a journey, but I'm glad that I intentionally did try to grow and make the most of that.

I'm glad you're back. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad you're still a runner. Yeah. Go on board? One more. One more? Okay.

Better be a good one. Okay. Hold on. I got pre-check. You're fine. I don't want her to miss her flight. Okay. She's got the beer mile world championships tomorrow.

It's not the worlds, but. Oh, whatever. Better be good. I know. All right. What do you want your legacy to be? That is it. That's a hard one.

Clchet. As a cop out. You know how many stupid podcasts ask that question? I want another one. Okay. Who is Shelby? Who is Shelby? Okay.

That's, all right. All right. Gosh. I don't even, like, I think Shelby is a very resilient, persistent, a gritty, but also like super positive, bubbly, yes person down for any challenge, spontaneous. Fun. Fun. Yeah.

I think, yeah, kind, thoughtful, respectful. I think those, I don't, yeah, those are a lot of adjectives, but I think that's like, you know, well-rounded. You know, I think that that might sum it up. Maybe I'm missing something. Sounds like a good person to me. I appreciate that. Did you say bow hunter? Bow hunter.

Not even a runner anymore. I'm just a bow hunter. There you go. All right. Well, now we're on the same page. Well, good job, guys, on the peanut gallery questions. Thank you. Thank you, Shelby.

You're a badass. I'm glad to call, happy to call you a friend. Yeah, I appreciate you having me out. It's been such a fun. like two days. I keep wanting to say weekend, but it's like Thursday and Friday. Yeah, whatever. But no, I really appreciate you having me out. It's been fun to talk to you and get to know you and have tattoos with you now. This is great. I know. I love it. Thank you. Appreciate you coming out. And yeah, keep kicking ass. Yeah, thank you. All right, guys,

keep hammering.