Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 131 - Taylor Spike

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Taylor Spike, ultramarathon runner and one of Cam’s younger brothers. Join us for a conversation about Taylor’s recent accomplishment of completing the Arizona Monster 300 with a time of 88:38:23. Taylor talks about his training, difficulties in the race, hallucinations during the race, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Taylor: https://www.instagram.com/tspike2/  Thank you to our sponsors: Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Timestamps: 00:00:00  Taylor’s Experience with Running 300 Miles 00:09:43  Taylor’s Previous Races 00:11:15  Training for the Arizona Monster 300 00:14:20  Pushing Through the Thought of Quitting 00:18:14  Racing Against Peter Mortimer 00:22:19  The Hardest Part of the Race 00:25:53  Running & Body Progression from 2010 to 2025 00:29:02  The Growth of Ultras: Peter Mortimer, Adam Woods, & Gavin Ross 00:34:32  Ad Break (Montana Knife Company & Ketone) 0036:03  Training in Hard Conditions 00:40:49  Taylor’s Sleep Schedule During the Monster 300 00:47:27  Improvements For Upcoming Races 00:50:11  Race Maps & Looking for Aid Stations 01:02:16  Social Media & Celebrating Runners Efforts 01:04:26  What’s Next for Taylor 01:09:19  Cam’s Step Dad Greg 01:17:15  AZ Monster: Salt, Hydration & Fuel 01:24:43  Training for Cocodona 01:30:33  QA: F#$k, Marry, Kill: Monster, Tahoe, Cocodona? 01:32:44  QA: What Do You Think About When Things Get Hard? 01:34:28  QA: What Other Weird Hallucinations Did You Have? 01:37:32  QA: What’s One Truth You Had to Face About Yourself? 01:40:00  QA: How Did Your Mindset Change From Mile 1 to 299? 01:41:59  QA: One Moment From the Monster 300 You’d Replay? 01:44:44  Outro

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right.

The Key Pammer Collective with Taylor Spike. Congratulations. Thanks. Where's your award? Oh, I left it over on the table. Yeah, we need that award. Oh, yeah. Where's your buckle?

Oh, I get the buckle too. This is a big deal. How do we do this? I don't know. I want to see it. It's pretty sick. This is what you get for running 300 miles. I know.

So here we go. Camera 17, 18, 27. Right there. Pretty nice. Oh, yeah. Second. There's only one of those. Arizona Monster 300.

That is badass, dude. And then the buckle, of course. And it's the same person that does a, all the, has done all our burglies the Tahoe and the big foot cali yeah that's really that's really cool yeah and you only get one of these by finishing that freaking 300 mile race yeah you get this by finishing second so how how how was just now how many days out are you what has it been five days how many days has it been a week a full week Tuesday Tuesday morning I finished okay so a week so how is the body feeling right now.

Slow. Yeah. Well, let me just say, so it's a 300-mile foot race. You started last Friday before last and finished on Tuesday, right? Yep. 88 hours. 88 hours. A foot race nonstop.

And people always ask, you know, how long do you go a day? I'm like, the clock doesn't stop. So if you want to sleep, the clock still goes. You got it done in 88. The winter. Peter Mortimer got it done in 86. But yeah, what's your body feel like after that? I like to take a lot of naps.

Yeah. My contacts don't fit my eyes. Really? Yeah. My weight finally is back. Yeah. Like I don't have grip strength. That was something I was trying to pinch something.

And I was like, gosh. Yeah. I don't know if it's fatigue or dehydration or I don't know. Yeah, but it's real. Yeah. And like even doing a bench or pull-ups, like grabbing the bar, I just don't have like this, I don't feel strong. But I can do it.

And it's actually today my thighs hurt more than they have since I quit. Really? Yeah. I think he's just taking that long for things to kind of settle on. I ran a couple times. I've lifted. I've done, you know, normal stuff. Right.

Today it was like my sleep felt a little caught up. Like my HRV on my watch. It's all in the red. everything's a strained i would agree yeah that's pretty accurate but but today was like a deep soreness that which i think is good yeah you know because i'm not still high on endorphins or whatever happens so you're feeling it feeling that's good yeah yeah so that your body probably was in like a self-preservation mode um and now it's like okay i guess we loved we made it through it so now your body's saying here we are it's what we're doing yeah i think it's still questioning

that yeah it's 300 words a long ways who that's that's that's yeah it was long that's that's amazing it's there's something i don't know just tracking you guys is people get addicted to that you know just that GPS tracker for 88 hours it's like i was explaining to somebody i came here for these guys or or whoever but it's so weird how you start this race and then we go go, you know, do whatever, go to a movie, go to dinner, go to bed, watch a show, get up, have coffee. Oh, I got to do my son. Oh, I got to go get, go to Piscay today. Got to come back. And this whole time for days, you're doing this, just running, just moving. Maybe not running all the time, because some of it, you got to just hike the climbs. But people's lives go on

for a long time and you're just doing the one thing. There is one point. we knew because we were looking at the tracker too I mean I was using it I wanted to see where Peter was or Josh or Ryan where the crowd you know the crew was and at one point we had passed Josh and his pace or I go by and I go the crowd goes wild and everybody's like what I said you know my people online just lost their shit right now I said we finally got you

yeah so even us in the moment looking at it knowing you know you're looking at people's paces and how fast they're going yeah you know for 40 more miles Maybe I could close that. Yeah. It's for real. It's awesome. It's fun.

Yeah, it was a little confusing on the start times. With the staggered starts. Yeah, because I was like looking and going, God, what, okay, so if this guy's here, but he started two hours earlier. So we're doing a little math in there, and I didn't know how it worked. I didn't know that to be considered for the top spot, you had to choose to start in the elite field. Yeah, that elite group.

Yeah, that elite group was started. I guess three hours after the first wave and then two hours yeah so it staggered a little bit but what was that because to get people spread out for the aid stations? I think there was something about having so many people on the trail or in the starting area. Oh. So there was some something happened with a permit. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what I had understood. I, you know, whatever. Yeah, I saw where I was, you know, yeah. I started. I literally, though, so all that being said, I really wanted to win. And I didn't want there to be any question about it. So I was dead last. So when everybody took off, I stood at the start line and waited. There's got to be video of it somewhere. They were gone. Everybody was long gone. They're up around the corner. And I hugged Jared and those guys told them good job and waiting for it to load on my watch and then took off. And so what was what was the thought with that?

I wanted to pass everybody. Yeah. I wanted to be able to work through the entire, everybody who was there. Have a carrot out there to chase. The entire time. I knew that Peter and those other guys were faster than me and I knew they'd get out front. And that was just, but at some point they would walk, right? And I just figured if I could just get in a groove and, you know, be smart.

I could get up there. Yeah. It's a long race. So long. Yeah. And I, 45 was the first sleep station. You know, it was a war's arm. I mean, there's people all over.

45. So how many hours was that in? What were you doing probably like four miles an hour? Yeah, I think early we were. Yeah. Yeah, because we were, it was like, I thought it was like one or two in the morning. Yeah, so you, so that would have been like 11 hours, 10, 11 hours into the race already. Yep.

Yeah, and it was a crewless aid station and it was funny because you could tell how many people are so reliant on their crews because there's people leave in water bottles and blatter or something around and food. They just took off into the dark. without it, their stuff. And that's when I was like, okay, I'd been, what happens, we got lost three times in the first two miles. We'd run out, oh, wrong way, oh, wrong way.

And finally I'm like, I'm done. I'm just going to get the back. And then I got kind of in the back of the Congo line. Yeah. But which was fun. I met, you know, Eli and Carrie Ward and those guys and just BS for 20, 30 miles. Now that helps. Yeah, and just hung out.

Yeah. And then it was, you know, started getting dark. I guess work to do now. And that was past 45 then? Or when were you with those guys? The first 15, 20. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so it's really hard. I mean, I've never run a good race ever. When we're talking about long distance, because I always go too fast. It is so hard not to go fast. So hard. And then I always blow up. And then it's just barely hanging on to finish.

Yeah. Yeah, I was the same. It was like I'd run a couple of the hills and people would say, oh, look, we walked those and caught up to you. They're already giving your hard time. I remember there was another guy because I had worked through everyone. I had gotten to a point that, you know, you kind of like see that the ones that started earlier, but they're pretty quick. You know, it's like kind of questionable. I remember this guy lets me go by and lets me pass him.

And he goes, I expect you to win. And I turn, I said, me too. So I was like, was that all? When, when, was that the goal when you first signed up as you wanted to win that, win it? Yeah, when I looked at it, you know, Candace had been talking about this race for, since Moab, I thought. I know for a while. Yeah.

So when it, it popped up, you know, it was like, oh, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm in. The guys in Recovery Strong forced my hand to do it because they paid for it. I couldn't afford it. So they're like, we're doing this. Yeah. It's like, 2,000 bucks. Yeah. After Coca-Dona, they're like, oh, we're doing this.

And I was like, okay, I'm in. So, you know, looking at the field and knowing, you know, just, you know, been doing this for a minute. It's like I knew how far it was. I knew how I'd done it at Tahoe and the others. And I was like, this is my one chance. It's my one chance to win one. Yeah.

It's, you are, you are really good at the long distance. So you've done how many over 200 now? This was number five. Number five. Yep. And you got, you got third at Tahoe twice. Yep. Third at Tahoe twice and then the second place.

Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, so technically I got a second at Tahoe, but. Oh, did you? Yeah, because Courtney was the first. Oh. She was in front of me. So I got third overall, but I was second male.

Okay. So technicality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Third overall, second male. Yeah. So you've had some great races.

Yeah. I mean, in, I would, so I would think that there is, there would be a good chance. You could win. I mean, the inaugural. one and you've done a lot of inaugural races too which is a whole another level of challenge because for the race director

it's new. So you don't know like the hiccups that are going to come up in a race you know she's been doing 200s for a long time but this is a whole different animal. Yeah. It's all different. Yeah. When you're 100-7 miles in and you don't know what that person's thinking or not thinking. Right. Yeah. I would call and remember

they said at one point I could hear me back, better send something to know there to fix it. And I get that. That's why I do it. That's why I'd naggle your are awesome yeah yeah four of them i four of the five i've done were inaugural Tahoe flipped the other direction yeah so i guess it wasn't really right but it was the only year they did going that way yeah yeah well yeah i mean and also your training had been pretty much on point yeah you know you get i don't know for the people that follow you you do spend a lot of time in the mountains a lot of time I try to.

Yeah. Yeah. For training for this, what was it? What was your plan? I mean, miles a week or hours a week or feet climbed a week? What were you after? So I used to, I would always shoot for like 20 plus hours a week on foot. And then it would come out to like 100 miles and 20,000 feet of gain for whatever reason.

I mean, I guess my speed is only my speed, right? So that would look like that. But I knew there wasn't as much climbing in this. And I know what it's like to run on tired legs. It was like at all the years of doing it, it's like finally I realized I don't need to climb as much as I used to. And as long as I was conditioned going into it, then like Mount Lemon was a great big climb. Yeah. But I knew if I'd beat myself up training, I wouldn't have to do 20,000 feet a week to do that.

I could do 10. How big was what was the lemon climb like? Um, it's like 6,000. Yeah, over, yeah, it went 14 miles. Okay. Up to the top and it's like six or 6,600, I think. That's a grind. Yeah, it's, it was steep.

And I heard people complain, but it, we kind of flew right up. It was like, yeah, you just had poles and you're just kind of power hiking. Yeah, yeah, never put my poles down. Yeah. Used them the entire time. We just hit that and it was at sunset and it was cooling down and we just grind into the top of it, snow on the top. left out of my pacer at the top of that they came down redfern ridge which was a special

special spot it was a shit trail really yeah it was awesome i mean just like it's just kind of a fall line or what no just down just a steep down off of her open ridge you know that just exposed rocky slick uh i could see anything it's pitch dark but you know was the course all exposed because it was southern arizona right yes so tucson area yep so no shade no no No, the only shade might have been up there, and it was in the middle of the night when I was up there. Dude, that being exposed sucks energy from you. It is. Yeah, and how cold it got, man.

The soon as we'd say, as soon as the shadows got long, it was going to get cold. Sun drops and yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, it's frigid. It's like being in a refrigerator. How hot was it during the day then? I think we only saw mid-80s.

Oh, okay. But that's still. exposed, that's still enough. Yeah, I mean, you're definitely standing there. Because that air dries out your skin. Everything's dry. Well, that was the other kicker is it'd be hot and you get on a ridge and it was windy. And then you can tell how hot it really was and you realize you're cooking.

Yeah. You know, you just, we did a good job keeping the sun off of us with sun shirts and what we could and hats. But yeah, it was hot. Yeah. So here's what's crazy. You're training on point. You live in the mounds. You've done this a million times.

You're ready. You're mentally ready. You know what it takes. How many times, with all that being said, did you want to quit? How many times? One? Once. Only, because like, here's what I say.

15 miles left. I was done. First time of my life, I'm like, I'm out. I ain't doing this. I am not. I said I'm retired. I don't care. It hurts too much.

It ain't worth it. It's not worth it to me. And that's what people. I think people who haven't done these don't realize that even with everything going, I guess, the preparation, the experience, you're in first for most of time, you're still going to want to quit this bitch. It hurts so bad. Well, no, I mean, yeah, I mean, your body is telling you to quit the first 10 miles. Right. You're sweating. You're breathing hard. I mean, those are pretty good signs. You should probably slow, you know. I looked at my thing. It was like a 119 average heart rate for 88 hours. That's a lot of cardio. Yeah, that is. Most people, yeah, imagine that on it. I just, yeah, there's a lot.

Did your watch say it was time to rest? It's weird, it's this weird black thing on my thing. That's really, you're dead. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I think it, I thought that. Well, there's, oh.

See, like, even on a 50K, there's been 50Ks where I'm like, this sucks. I don't even want to finish this. For sure. 37 miles. And then for sure on 100, 100, 100, you're going to have at least one or two for me, then I'm just like, can I make up something? Yeah.

Can I make up I hurt something? I never, the last 15. Okay. It was the last, I made it all the way there. And I'll tell you. That's good. Because I'm with you. I've been 17 miles into a 50K and going, you know, I kept telling people I'd see them.

I said, this still seems like a good idea. You know, because it's a good sign. Yeah. Because it's one of those, you get so far into it. You're like, you know what? I can quit. nobody's going to say I didn't try. Nobody can say shit, really.

Right. But I never got there. It was that last, which was probably why it was so hard on that last week because I just probably blocked it the whole time. Just never thought about it. Then finally, finally it was like all raw and exposed.

Pussy, sobbing. Cam, when I left that station with Jared, I was swinging my arms. Like, you know when you tell your kid, come on, you need to work. Yeah. They're like exaggerating it. And you just,

you just want to go push them out. That's what I was doing. I was like swinging my arms as hard as I could just to try. And I was walking. I just, I just wanted to go. Yeah. I was so done.

Yeah. And 15 miles. Like, you'd say that, oh, what's 15 out of 300? 15 is still a ways. That could take six hours.

Still away. I don't care. I mean, I just walked 19. And that seemed like a lot. way. So I hadn't done shit before that. Yeah. Especially when you think about everybody's coming. Yeah. Everyone's behind you. Right. Yeah. I, yeah. Yeah. It was for real. And so I wonder if it was worse at that time because you knew you weren't going to catch Peter. Well, I still, no, I thought I

could. Oh, you still thought you could. I still thought because they said, and you still wanted to quit? I just didn't want to do it. I'd already quit. It hurt too bad. It didn't matter. Yeah. I figured he only had four miles. I hadn't even done the math when we left the aid station. In my mind, I thought, well, if he's walking and we ran a 10-minute mile, I would catch him with two miles left.

Oh, yeah. And yeah, it doesn't not. That does fast. That was the whole, those guys I knew were all faster than me. And I knew that they know that I'm in the mountains and I'm not a road guy. Some of those cats got 15-hour hundreds. Yeah. No way.

if I ever been close to that. Yeah, that's fast hundred. I knew that that's, that I had to push where I could push and on the road. And everybody knows everybody else's strengths by that time. Because the crews, everybody's been doing research. Pistol Hill.

Yeah. Crystal Hill is where it got real. And I reached out to those guys today, seeing if anybody had a picture at that aid station, because I had left in the lead. I know Josh and Ryan were out front. What mile was this? It was in the dark.

second night. 150s coming to 200 somewhere. We were moving pretty good. And I had left ahead of Peter and 120. Yeah, I think we had somewhere in there 150. And so I had left ahead of Peter and I'm going through the subdivision and all some those cats roll up behind me with their head lamps off and they were running hard. And they flew past me.

Keep it up. Who was it? It was Peter and his pacer. God. And they take off. I'm looking at the map. I'm like, well, we hit a road down here. They're not going to get that far.

Right. But they're like, they're gone. I can see it way down. And then they see them turn on the road and they're walking. Okay. And I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. Turn mine off.

And I ran my ass off. And it was like one of those moments and I'm like, you're either going to blow up or this is going to work. So I end up reeling them in within sight. And they're walking. And we walk for four months. miles, which was awesome because here you are with the leader. Yeah.

And he's walking. So it's like, well, that kind of makes it okay for me to walk, right? Yeah. Because then we're both walking. But he doesn't know I'm behind him. What happened is there's these markers are about six feet tall, like construction markers on the side of the highway and they got lights on the top. Okay.

Well, when those guys would turn around, look, I'd like tuck him behind the cone. They couldn't see me. Right. And eventually we all hooked up and we walked, you know, and then from there, then we caught Josh going on the gravel road. And then we came into Pistol Hill and we all slept around the fire. Okay. And that was the first time I'd really kind of interact with Peter.

He had his pacer helping him. And Josh and I were all just kind of like war zone. It was the first time I ever slept at the fire like in a chair. And I just hit my timer. I was like, we're all here. Yeah. You just got you back. So that was one of those moments I told Adam.

I said, that's where. And I was like, okay, I saw some weaknesses. I think, you know, maybe Peter's going to sleep too much. That was my hope, you know. Yeah. That didn't happen. But it was a, that was a good one. Yeah.

It was, well, all these tactics like turning off the headlamps and like all these strategy things and like if they're walking, you're walking or when you pass, you've got to just seem strong. Oh, yeah. So they're just like questioning themselves. But this is so far for so long. It was like your pants were down in the first day. It was like, oh, yeah. I knew that was how it was going to happen.

You knew where they were going to catch you. I kept looking back. Adam's like, what's up? I said, Peter's going to come like a freight train down this hill any minute. And sure of shit. He could just fall in. Is he taller? Yeah.

Is he? So he's been, is he pretty, obviously good, but he's been doing good in the ultracean for a while? Yeah, he was one of Mongolia monster. He was second at Kokodona, the inaugural year. Okay. Yeah, he's a beast. Yeah. Yeah, he's fast and he gets after it.

So. Trains hard? Yeah. Where is he from? There. F like staff or that area. All those guys were. They don't even,

you don't, you don't realize how hard it is to trust your feet. You know when I'm running around here, I don't never look at my feet. Right. I know that rock isn't going to move.

Right. I'm going to twist, but out there, man, in that desert, it's different. It's different. You just can't,

I can't bomb a hill like I can't hear. Right. Yeah. Not too many buffed out trails. Yeah. And then, so let me think. So what was the,

the hardest section, was it that bike path? Through Tucson. Yeah, the 50 miles of bike path. I mean, because you sign up for a mountain ultra, like 300 miles. You don't expect 50 miles on a bike path. And what we all agreed is that nobody would run 50 miles on the road for training. Hell no. It's miserable.

Oh, it's terrible. And it's not even railroad grade. It's worse because it would do these dips like under the overpass. Yeah. It would be like a little downhill and then this little uphill. But it was just enough that you're like, I'm walking. But it's right there.

But it wore on you, man. I bet. I know. That was really, that was weird. You get to wear in these ultras. You get to where like the slightest little uphill, you're like uphill, walking. Yep. Check me out.

We're used to like uphill like, oh, let's get to the top. That's uphill. It's like, oh, no. That's up. I see a little rise. I saw the guy on the bike coast. I'm walking this. Yeah.

Your shoes are flat. That's another one. Your shoes go flat. So they're all splayed out. Just the heat on it. Oh. Yeah. It's just.

So much little things. Yeah. And doing that after climbing the mountain, you know, and doing that first section, all that trail, it was a lot. Yeah. It was a lot. What, uh, so 15 got tough. Um, but you were saying you felt good up until the very end, essentially.

Yeah. I felt really good until 250. 250. 250 of my feet started to, they, like, I achy. Like, not. not like, oh, I got a blister. Right. Yeah.

It's like, it's a long, pretty standard. Yeah, but it was things like, somebody else's podcast. He's like, I knew I was doing damage. So I just, and I was like, yeah, for real. Oh, no. These things aren't good for you. This is not good for you. This was the first time that I was like, and I told somebody else, I've sold myself short for

the past decade of running ultras. I've never been like, I'm broke. Send it. Oh, yeah. I'm going to be just more broken. No, I know. It's just, I, yeah, it was, it was a lot. Encles and knees, the stuff that would, you know, tweak and you're just like, look, it still works.

Yeah, that's where I hear people say stuff. Like, you know, I just didn't want to do any long-term damage. I'm like, well, then you shouldn't sign up for these races. Yeah, because reality is, yeah. And you know what? The other reality that is, is you probably did all that damage training. Yeah, I mean, it's too late. It's too late.

That's how exactly in my mind. I'm like, you know, I've done thousands. and thousands of mine is over a decade. If I break my ankle, okay. If you're worried about longevity, you can go do yoga. Right.

Even though I knew Peter was going to beat me and I was never going to catch him. God. No, you didn't know that. You know that now. I do that pretty early. I don't know. It was,

I was on hope. I was on hope. You raced good. I guarantee he was questioning. Oh, no. He could beat you. There's a picture.

He and I stand in there with my arms around each other. and he goes, man, I like you. He goes, but I hope I never see you again. I was like, as I was like, you got to be Ryan. That's what we had to talk. It was like, you got to go get it, man. You got to make this clear.

Yeah. Well, how has it been like when you think about your journey as an ultra runner? Because right now it's like everybody like kind of in the old terrain world, they were following Arizona Monster. You were, you know, podium, second, big effort, big, incredible. results when you think about like so your first ultra was what year was that 2010 2010 so 15 years of doing this what tell me what what that's been like i mean how have how have you changed from 2010 to 2025 um i'm just i can that whole thing about listening to your body that that is probably the

biggest piece that you know in the beginning it was a year's center it i mean you just run down these hills is kind of careless and just you're not sure if you're going to get hurt or this is normal and now it's like you know that's there's a there's a process to all that stuff and i you know training for stuff or figuring out what works for me um probably that just learn to my body and listening to it you know other than the sport itself you know it's like i mean it's got way bigger you know there's way more people doing it you know i don't i don't sometimes i would feel like there's a lot there's faster people but I feel like there's just more people and the more people's push the faster, you know,

then that brings that out. But I can't believe that we're running 300 miles. That's the one that, yeah, remember when you did Western States. That was like my intro at the long distance. Yeah, that was 2010. Yeah, 100 miles. I was like, I was doing a China hat, Enduro 100 mile in motorcycle race. And I was trying to compare those two, right?

And I was like, 100 miles on foot, man, on a motorcycle. That's hard, right? In the desert. So just, yeah, being able to wrap my mind around, that's, that's, that's, that's, as a sport, that's just mind-blowing, is that people are continuing to run further and further. Successfully, like, well, like, Peter looked pretty good. Yeah.

It's mind-blowing. I know, I know. I wonder what so, I mean, your body's changed dramatically from when you first started, too. I mean, because nowadays, like, I was here, I saw your brother, oh, he's shredded. I mean, and it's just like, it's just 15 years in the mountains. I mean, your body will adapt.

you keep going back to the mountains, you're going to get results. Yeah. Yeah, I was 200 pounds. And, you know, got down to 138 was the thinnest I got. That's what Paxton is, you know, my 16-year-old. That was a small side got, I think, like 170 now. And that's, you know, I don't spend a lot of time in the gym. Yeah.

I tell the kid, it's like, you can do a pretty good workout one song. Oh, yeah. You can do some bench, sit around, wait for the song to end, do some more. And you don't have to do a lot. But just a little bit. Carry a rock up a mountain. Right. Don't overthink it.

Yeah, being consistent. Yeah. Showing up. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, yeah, you've definitely, I don't know, it's changed your life, which that's what ultramarathons can do. That's what the mountains can do just in general. But then when you sign up to compete, that's a whole other level.

Yeah. And, okay, how do I, how do I not just compete, but how do I win? you know and that's always your goal is to win now but yeah that's been what an amazing journey oh yeah it's um yeah i i i don't know i love that more people are learning about ultramarathon and like the community's being celebrated it's it's because it's the best people it feels like the best people out there well yeah i mean everybody's so encouraging i mean it's this i mean where else you're gonna get to mile 280 of any event and you're laughing with the leader or oh yeah you know like he and i in that picture looked like we just started yeah we were deep in it

you know and to be able to have that camaraderie you know that laid into a competition that you just you're not going to find that anywhere no you know and that those guys are wait for you at the finish you know you can show up the next day and ryan all those guys we just sat around on the finish and be yes watch other people come in it's like you know that's your circle god that's the best did you did you get a group shot you said you wanted to wait for a group shot no i i i did because they did take off. Oh, they did.

They're all there. I had to go back to work. That sucks. That sucks. Does Peter work? Does he have a job? He's not like a, there's not hardly any pro ultra-emerger.

He's like a, I don't want to see as an orthopedic surgeon. I mean, does something with shoulder replacements. Oh, okay. For a place in Flagstaff. I saw he was back to work the next day. Must be nice.

Yeah. To be rich. Yeah. Just kidding. Maybe there's that. Yeah. No, I can't.

take any people will try their best to take away from people who do amazing things by somehow justifying i don't know what but i can't i'm not saying shit i'm just joking yeah good job peter yeah it's a big win that's a big win yeah i'm curious like man he had the sleep system he would roll in it was it was dialed yeah i wonder how he was i wonder how he was maybe he just falls asleep easy I don't know. No, no, because when I told Adam, I saw blood because he was in an aid station sleeping and he's like, told his pacer, hey, can you cover up my feet? They're cold.

And I was like, ooh, a little weakness. I'd see P on the side of the trail and tell Adam, they stopped. You can tell. They're weak. I said, that's blood. I said, we got to keep going. Yeah, it was amazing how much you can try to interpret sign or tails. for that long because it's like it's like playing poker and like you got to try to read your

opponent yeah that that that section that adam did that 60 he paced 80 miles with whoa 80 yeah this one was 60 60 mile section he did and it was holy shit yeah and i was that's when i got what's his last name adam wood woods okay he paste me at coca donut too is so he's a good runner then he's a beast yeah he's way faster than me really oh yeah he just doesn't know it that's That's like that kid who did that fucking shotgun race. Oh, yeah, no, he, all those guys. That guy's fast. Yeah, their problems, they run with me.

I know, I got tricks. I know. I know. But they, and they're like in their 20, or that kid who won shotguns 20. Oh, yeah. What's his name? Gavin Ross. Yeah, he's a piece of beast.

And they just ran 124, the half in Hawaii. Was that road? Yeah. Oh, well, that's not that fast. Yeah, okay. I mean, well, it's fashion. Yeah, I guess it's pretty quick. I asked him, though, I was like,

what did your 208 beat or 408 beat my time i thought it had a shotgun yeah i felt like a dick when it didn't he's like no i was short oh okay so you got the course records still no no somebody's ran three something oh no no that was that guy from germany that guy i know i ran that year too he was he's got like 345 yeah but it was i think it was a different course was it no i wish it was but no he cheated no yeah yeah Gavin no no one 124 is good, but I think that ultra performance is better than a 124 half. A lot of people have run 124 half. But to run that fast on that course for 50K, that's impressive.

Yeah, he's a Harrisburg kid. I know. I'd see him in the mornings. We'd always give this nod. Finally, we both were like, hey, what's up? You want to like run together? Yeah. Yeah.

I was asking them, I said, because we ran together pretty much the whole time until I put my leg. But I was asking him, what was a word? worst run he's done with you. Oh, geez. Because he's done like some, you've had some long days out there.

He mentioned something or as cold as shit. And you guys were out there for like out, I don't know how many hours. I can't remember. But where was that in the snow? Oh, I know. I'm trying to think of what the name of the,

or maybe it was just raining. Maybe it wasn't snow. No, it was snowing. Oh, okay. Yeah, we, I had found this loop. Yeah.

Which is usually how they start. Terrible. It was like 20-some miles or 30 miles. There's terrible traverses. I can't remember Clark. I can't remember where it was, but it was legit. Yeah. And it was, luckily, it was one of those you're doing a loop.

And you're like, gosh, I really hope this is actually a trail. And somebody had literally just gone down it and put ribbons. Oh, really? Otherwise, we would have been hypothermic. That's what he said. He said he was like almost hypothermic. Shash, it happens. Lightweight.

But anyway, the point. point. What I took from it is you do shit like that in training. You're getting tough. Well, yeah, because I, you know. Or you die. Well, yeah, luckily we haven't died. That's your options. You know, but every old trip ever done is like, yeah, they're hard, you know, especially we're in Arizona's 87. There's an inch of snow on the ground. You're way through creeks. You know, you're using cactus pillows. You know, it's like, it's hard. Yeah. You know, So yeah, during training, it's like all you can do is expose yourself to a little bit of that. Yeah.

You know, where those guys think is different is that they're willing to show up. There's him and Danny Brinson. Those guys will show up. I'll just say, hey, meet me at the trailhead 4 a.m. Okay. They would ask how far, how long, if they need to bring anything. I love that. They're committed.

And I love that. I love that. 30 plus miles through some shit. Makes a big difference. It does. That training. It's all there. Especially when they don't know any different.

You know, it's not like their track. or they have this running schedule. They just know that they can get out in the mountains and grind. They have no idea how fast they are. Yeah. Just like Gavin all of a sudden. I know. Drop the hammer.

God. Yeah. I kept going faster and faster. And I was like, oh, because I was saying, what's your, what was your marathon PR?

And he said something like, 314 or something. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Then we'll just go too fast and you'll blow up and didn't all just be on my own. Yeah. And I was going faster.

And I'm like, except he's 25. I know. I know. And he was still not blowing up. It's like, God, dang. This kid is, I said, I was thinking to myself, you're faster than 314. I mean, now he just proved that with the 124 half.

Yeah, because he wants to go sub three, Eugene. That's his goal. Well, I mean, he's, I put money on it. Yeah. He's in shape. But, yeah, that's fun. But anyway, the point is, it's like, those big days that you have training and the mountains, that all pays off.

Yeah. Because you know what being miserable feels like. And I think people go into these and they're just like not, either they haven't experienced it and don't know what it's going to feel like or sometimes I experience it. Then I block it out and I forget and then I get to the race and I'm just like, holy shit, I forgot how hard these were. Well, yeah. No, and that's a good point.

That's, well, that's why I went to the Grand Canyon twice the last few months. It's because I said, you know, 15 hour 50s, you know, you can do the Grand Canyon and 15 hours to feel good about it. Yeah. You know, that was the deal. So it was like, yeah, I mean, I can't imagine trying to do that around here. You know, there's no other place to do it than go to Arizona and run through the ditch. Yeah. And then on that last one, that was brutal too.

Oh, yeah, we were knee deep on the North Ridge. Yeah, a bunch of snow. Yeah, I told those guys, Danny. And I told them, I said, if this was anywhere else, ain't happening. Yeah. I'm turning around. Right. But you're in the Grand Canyon.

And you only die if you only live once. Yeah. And you know once you get to that north one, then once you turn around there, it's only to get better. Yeah, except we were all done. We're like, oh, that's a good long run. You were done when you got there? Oh, we were.

But you're only halfway. Sure thing. What was that grind up out of there like on the south? Pretty good. Those guys are, and we pasted out. We hit seven and a half hours. We split it just a walk again. So he did.

I've got it figured out. Was, what's the bottom where you get the lemonade? What's that called? Phantom Ranch. Yeah, was it open? No, there was snow. Oh, God.

Well, no, there wasn't snow there, but it was freezing. Oh, really? Oh, dude. So they didn't have it open then? No, no. Oh, shit. It was 14 on the North Ridge. Oh, my God.

There was snow all the way down to like a skeleton point, which is like a couple miles down the rim. Is that where that water is there? Or wait, there's water going up there. It was probably frozen now. On the south side there's no water. No, but on the north. Oh, yeah.

I remember there's like a little water. Oh, yeah, yeah. It caught Manzanita. Yeah. There was water there. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

And we broke trail all the way up. We didn't see another person. Yeah. Yeah, it was incredible. Going through the Great Canyon and knee deep snow and the sunshine. That is awesome. That's living. Yeah.

That's awesome. That's training for a 300-mile. Oh. That is. Yeah, it's a long day. I remember coming out of there with, Courtney coming up that south she was way fresher than me but I remember that was a grind coming out of there yep it's like what 5500 feet from the river yeah yeah it's a pole it's it's a lot of steps

steps and icy but perfect training god you can't you can't beat days like that I know so now I'm three about three weeks away probably too late to do big training sleep get out sleep schedule So that was, yeah. Yeah. So what would, so your, your sleep schedule in, in Arizona Monster, what do you do? Do you just like by feel? Yeah.

And you just, you go as long as you can and then. Yeah, you feel yourself slipping. Yeah. You know, all of a sudden, like, you're walking something or you're kind of like kicking rocks. Yeah. You know, I'll let that go for a little while. This was the first time I had to change.

Usually I was doing like three, three, five minutes. That lasted about 200 miles. What do you mean three, five minutes? That's how long I would sleep. Three to five. Oh, three to five. Yeah. And when did you first sleep?

Right after 42. Oh, right at that sleep station? Yeah, it was a, it got, I had, I had pulled off. It was right before the sun had come up. So it must have been 60 something, I think. Yeah. I think it was, I'd found this little cove, it got cold. I didn't have my down with me.

and there's a little drainage, some game trail running through it. Yeah. And it was warmer than it had meant everywhere else. It was freaking freezing cold. Yeah. And I had laid down there and set my alarm for about five minutes. And it was one of those that I laid down.

They could hear something in the brush. And then I'm like, this little coyote. It had to be a coyote shot off. And then that was my first night. That woke you up. That was out. And then it was daylight. And then later in this about 10 o'clock, 10 a.m.

and I slept again. I think I was in the lead. I think I did. You were leading for a lot of the race. Yeah, I pulled off and slept. And then I think it was like a Mark and Pete caught me. Yeah. I slept a couple times during the day,

but it was always like five minutes until I was like 200 and something. And then I, five minutes wasn't working anymore. I'd ask out of my pace or I was like, hey, is 10 working better? He goes, five isn't doing anything. Yeah.

And I was get back out and start to keep staggering. just death marching. As soon as I'd sleep and get up. Super stiff. Yeah. Or what was a, what was a, what was hurting?

Nothing. I was just justified walking. Yeah. I just didn't have that, that pep. I just didn't want to push up the hills. Yeah. I was like,

I'm walking. They're all walking. I had just, you know, had justified going slow. Yeah. And I wasn't, I wasn't beat up.

I felt, you know, yeah, I was beat up, but I wasn't bad. I know. If you can do a tiny little trot instead of a walk that's all i do well you saw me finish yeah i mean that was like i mean i was

hurt for certain but that i don't think i was much faster the rest of the day yeah honestly yeah i looked at myself 14 15 minute miles you know and in a but i was consistent you know i stayed on that that was steady yeah i did 60 i wanted 60 hour i knew going under 60 and 200 is that's yeah that's fast yeah tahoe i'd done that so i knew that and then it was you know 15 hour 50s and then you just broke it down farther from that. Right. In my mind, if I was like, you know what, I'm going to come in. I think we came in like 56, 54 hours when we came into 200.

That's fast. Yeah, we were moving. And I was like, this is way too fast. Yeah. And I thought I just need to start sleeping. With 100 left. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that last 100 took us all a minute. So, oh, yeah. So that took you 34 hours. Yeah. So I should have slept for four hours. But that's still not too. far from the 15 for 50 it's four hours slower yeah but four hours would is different between first and second well if my thing and my thing was is that watching peter run i was never going to sleep

enough to become fast yeah does that make sense like he's moving down the hill i didn't care if i just started yeah i'm not running that fast down the hill right so that's where i was like that was it was a sucker punch you had to push it push your you had to push your limits a little bit to try to offset his strings. Correct. Yeah. I knew we were going to catch Josh. He was a zombie.

I thought they were breakdance on one time. And I looked up there and I'm like, what are they doing? And I was convinced that he was like break dancing in this white outfit. I get up there and I was like, not even close. Oh yeah. Totally.

I'd fallen asleep at one point. I told Adams just give me 10 minutes and the moon the last night was just super bright. I'd laid back and fell asleep. and I wake up and you're like when you look up at the stars and you're looking like they look like they spin you know you're on your back yeah and so when I woke up this bright-ass moon I was convinced there was somebody looking at my eye to see if I was alive I yell out Adam he's like what I'm like never mind we're good for vitals yeah were you alive or were you dead I was alive oh good yeah yeah that's good yeah I had a couple a couple there was yeah I got lost fell hit my face on a rock that was

one I laid there for a minute. Is that what happened here? Yeah. And that was one of those. Like you hit, and it's been a long time since I've been hit in the head. And it was a little belt.

Your belt. I laid there. Yeah, that's solid. Well, I guess I'm not asleep. I guess I'll get up. Well, so for 34 for the last 100,

it's not terrible. No. That's not terrible after 200. Your 200 was just fast as hell. Yeah. That was a problem. Yeah. But the last 100, that's not awful.

No, to 240, 250. We were all. we were joking like at moab or some of those others we'd been crushing it yeah yeah we would have been all just we were thinking we would all been battling that long i know mean that's crazy that is well that's what i that's what i took away is like you guys were running were competing the whole time and normally those races like you remember courtney at moab and we did it there was no she was gone yep so it's like that's how normally those are it's usually not coming down i know coca donna was close last year i think brown was pretty close to that, what is it? What's his name? Samartis or the guy who won Cochidona?

Harold. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know that was a close race, but normally it's like there's a gap. Yeah. You guys were. The four of us. Yeah.

The next person was 12 hours behind us. Wow. But the four of us were like, the whole time we're like, I can't believe. I said, why do you guys keep showing up here? That's impressive. I kept antagonizing those guys.

I'm like, we got to go. That's impressive. But it was, it was fun. It made it a lot of fun to be able to have other dudes out there that you have strengths and you were stronger somewhere else. It's so cool. Yeah, it was, it was a blast. That's so cool.

What, um, what could you have done better? Well, if you're like, look, thinking back now, could you have won or did you run your best race? I think I ran my best race. Did you? I really think that was, that was what I had. Yeah. You know, there, there might have been, um, Like the gels, the fuel, I had never, I literally tried it the day before.

I'm like, yeah. Well, I guess I'll use this. I know. I didn't even know the shan had caffeine in it until the end. I'm looking at it. I'm like, what does this plus sign mean? Yeah. That they had caffeine.

So it was, you know, well, that was the thing with with a pacer is that I've had pacer before, but I've paced, you know, you. Yeah. It's always like, it's always a good excuse to go with a person to hang out in the woods in my book. It was like I've never relied on somebody. Yeah. But this one was like, yeah, that was, it was different. And it was, there could have been some different fueling strategies.

I should have had my, had them carrying some other stuff that I liked, you know, that I knew I'd want. Right. You know, some of that type of stuff. Yeah. I should have done. For the station fuel. Yeah.

Because I was used something I didn't know. So I didn't want to overuse it. I didn't know how to, I couldn't push it. There was. Yeah. Fueling wise, I think. And then the. sleep piece you know I you know I don't I I'm excited to do another one or pace one and do a little

more sleep especially with somebody who's a little bit faster yeah because my wheels are only so fast I can really run a seven minute a mile these guys are you know I don't know so but I think that was that was what I had you know I wish I could say that I could take eight hours off of that back end well the thing is most people so you're honest most people most people would have said, oh, no, I got way more. So just the fact that you said, no, I was about as good as I can get. I mean, that sets you apart because nobody ever says that. It's, but that's, you know, I think that these races, if you had an ego, you don't have one after you do these races.

Because it'll humble your ass. Oh, my gosh. So maybe we're just still close enough to it. or it's really hard to act cool once you've got your ass kicked for three days. Literally. I mean, it is tough. So I like, you know, of course I wanted you to win, of course. But the fact that you did the best you could and that's just, you're okay with that, that's awesome.

Yeah. I mean, it's a, God, what a test. Oh, man. What a test. But I don't know, like, and I don't want to. I'll say some of these guys are super ultra nerds about the fueling and all the stuff. Maybe we're just different because when you were answering that about testing out gels and stuff, do you know that, I don't know, I haven't done like, I've done a few, like long,

I've never looked at a map before the rate. I don't even, I've never even looked at the course map for Kodona. I never looked at Moab before we did it. I never looked at Bigfoot. Me neither. I don't either. So that's what happened at the beginning of the race.

So they make you download the course on your phone and they confirm, oh yeah, yeah, that all looks good. Well, in the morning of the race, I was like,

oh, shoot, I didn't sink my watch. Yeah. So that's what happens. Everybody takes off and I'm standing at the start. Loading. Loading.

Because I didn't have it and I didn't even look at it. And honestly, I didn't realize somebody had told me that we didn't have a pacer to like 145. Yeah.

I mean, it's in the very beginning. But then all of a sudden there was changes. Like, oh, there's a staggered start. That was all stuff like seriously the day before.

I'm like I should probably look into this a little bit. A drop bag? Did you see my drop bag method? I call it like my plankie. It was a box of ketone IQs. One pair of shoes. Yeah. At mile 42.

And I'm like, what good is that going to do me? I don't know. But you see like, you know, King of Moab, Max's film. And you see the detail like he's going to sit and going through. I know. I'm like, yeah. I'm like,

what the fuck? Either I'm completely retarded or I don't know. I've never done that. Andy Glaze. Yeah, same thing. He had 11, he have 11 drop bags and they're all identical. Like these organized crates,

he'd go into each. I don't know. That just must not be how our brains were. I told my crew, I said when we come to an A station, I didn't know how far the next one is. Yeah. How soon I'm going to.

see you. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know, it wasn't even that. I mean, it was literally came down to, I want sticky stuff in this pocket and dry stuff in this pocket, electrolytes and water. That was it. Yeah. I think my headlight. I think maybe we can do better at stuff like that. But I've always like, and this is probably just a stupid thing, but people said, well, do you have pastures, this or that? And like, even for Kocodona, I actually don't know. I mean, you said you can go and Rihanna says she can do whatever and these guys are going to be there filming or whatever. But I've always been like, unless you can run miles for me, it doesn't really matter. Can you, are you going to run miles for me?

Oh, you're not? Okay, then it doesn't matter because I have to do it. But I do know it can't make a big difference. Yeah. And for me, this race was the first time that I was like, okay, fine, Cruz are pretty cool. Well, it's just like Courtney's husband, how good. he's so like I think that's his job logistics or something like that yeah just knowing details you know it's it's got to give you confidence it does yeah yeah and that was a big thing with

adam paced in me it was like finally I was like because I've always done these alone and yeah kind of prided myself in that this one I was like leaned on my poles I'm like Adam I you got to untie my shoe do more coffee no okay okay and I've never had to ask anybody to do that or hey can you feel my bladder you know it's like we you wipe my ass exactly you know it was like but i was done it was like i was so shot i was like i was looking for any any sympathy anybody'd give i know i know well i remember that we had like uh we're we're both not really that great at doing any of this stuff well we're you're good i'm fucking not good but i remember at moab i don't remember what remember you like you threw a little fit kind of what when i took off

off in the middle of the night. Oh, yeah. We were laying down. You were like, why you keep moving around? Something like. Yeah. Same thing my wife says in the bed. Yeah.

Well, toss, turn. I couldn't get comfortable. I kick my legs all the time, apparently. I don't know if it's restless leg syndrome. But anyway, it's like, yeah, we're both not. I know we can do better at either communicating or helping each other or something. Yeah.

But whatever. Yeah. I think having, knowing what the course. is and being confident what we tell each other. How far is it? I don't know, 10 miles, 15, four hours later. That's what happened to Adam and I. I was like, hey, where do you see the station? Oh, it's right up here. I'm looking at the, this is, I'm so stupid. I'm looking at the trees. I'm like, oh, there's the tent. I can see the white tent. Drink my water. Empty it. An hour later. That definitely wasn't the tent. And then I come around another corner. I said, hey, Adam,

did you see it? You can see it through there. He goes, I didn't see anything. I said, oh, this has got to be it. I'm looking on my phone. Drink a little. little more my water. Nope, that wasn't it either. And that was those are the moments. Yeah. That you're like, those are bad decisions. I need to do better. I got pissed. Yeah. I guess I get upset. Well, when you go dry after you're, when you're pushing, that is, you can't tough to fucking recover. Yeah. And I'd had him go out in front of me trying to pull me along because we wanted to close that gap a little bit. Yeah. I had him out there and I push, push, push. And then it was like, oh, there's, there's aid stations. It's not the 8 station.

That's so hard. So was it, I mean, was your, were you looking at your phone and like, was it, was it shown where you were like the waypoint? Or why were you not being able to see where the station was on your phone? Well, I could, but with the switchbacks and the way that the ridge looked, you couldn't tell if it was like right here or two miles. Yeah, I see. And it like hooked you around these points. Oh, okay. We felt like we were going in circles.

That's what it did. It was like you'd be out of this point. Like at the end, we would see Ryan. We would, at one point he was point one point, he was point one five away. And then we'd go around the corner and then he was 2.5 away because of the hooks and the, just the canyons. So it was just lying aside basically or as a crow flies. Yeah, you'd see him and you'd see these silhouettes dancing on the mountain side. Yeah.

Oh, he's right there. He's so close. And you're like, how did he get to the other side of us? Right. Yeah. It's so hard. Now that you've done both the Kocodona and Arizona Monster 300, which one's tougher? Arizona Monster.

Was it? Yeah. Yeah. Why how come? I mean, obviously 50 miles further. It felt this. Distance-wise, it was, it felt similar. The vibe at Kocodona is different.

there's just more people. Yeah. Like more people like because you're going through the town. More crew and more. Oh yeah. Yeah. Just more accessible. Okay.

You know, like you come into Flagstaff at the finish. Just that, you know, that was kind of, I don't want to say electric, but there was a lot of people. Yeah.

Energy. Yeah. And you come off the top of the mountain coming down. It was just, there's people on the road. You know, it was busier. So that for me just kind of keeps you a little bit different headspace.

But like this one, it felt really. remote yeah you're out there alone like in the middle of nowhere i mean it was just the one point i thought was coming into a forest and it was cactus giant cactus it was so thick with these yeah it's just like that type of thing just the deserts i felt like the southern desert feels different than the pines and the mountains up at coca don't know because you get up on that uh so the cocaino plateau i don't something like that it's a big timber it reminds me you know central oregon a little bit okay um but you weren't getting that from superior to patagonia that was a street desert yeah that makes it

tough i mean we like the mountains yeah you know we're not really desert people no so yeah we're kind of more used to like i guess what you'd see it around flagstaff yeah yeah yeah i was just curious you know between the two doing both not not too many people People have done both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The first year of Kocodon was, I think, special too, just because they logistically, they've changed some things and make it a little more pleasant for people.

I think this year, I don't know what I was listening to, but they did change like the Mount, the last mountain where you used to go up. I think it's a pretty good climb. I can't remember what the. Eldon, isn't it? Yeah, it must be. But used to go up. Oh, no. No, no, you went up the trail, rocky trail, and then came down the road.

Yeah. And now you go up the road and down the rocky trail. Oh, that's so special. That's going to be a lot slower. It's going to be a lot slower. The climb up. Yeah, I liked the climb up. Yes.

Because you're going to go slow anyway on a climb. So you might as well have it rocky because it's like you're not that much slower. Yeah. But where you could make up time running down the road now, you won't be able to. now you're coming down the rocks. Yeah. And you're not going to build a make up that much time going up because you're already gas.

That's where Maggie left me. Oh, was it? For dead. Did she win that year? Yeah. She won? Yeah. She left you on the rocks climbing.

I was on the top of, oh, did she hit the road? Oh. Like you come down this little ridge, it's kind of steep, and then you drop down on this gravel road. She kicked her loose. Yeah. And I was like, I was hurting. Yeah, she's a stud, though.

I wasn't as a good shape of coconut. to yeah it was similar to moab it was just like i was just going to get it done i didn't have any other goals just then not die yeah it's a good goal but yeah tahos on this one was different this was a full dump man you kicked ass dude yeah it was awesome i was so happy you kicked ass yeah it's not very often you can look back on something like that it'd be like feels good huh yeah i still wish i would have won but yeah you know it's like yeah i had so much time to wrestle it. You know, it was like, Peter, in the last 50 or whatever, pulls away.

It's like, you know, what are you going to do? Maybe he's going to fall and break his leg. Could have. That did, that happened. He came into a station and he was looking for a medic. Really? Yeah, that was the word on the street. It was like the wrestling at the crowd.

You should have done that. Peter's hurt. Peter's hurt. Peter's hurt. Go, go. Did you ever think of like the Tony Hardy, Nancy Kerrig? Yeah. I talked to a guy.

I said, just come on a side of the knee or something. In the dark. It's like, oh, shit. What happened? Oh, gosh. It's terrible. Must have a rock. Well,

or Havillina. Good luck next year. Yeah. He's a good guy and I, I told him all, I was like, if I loses somebody, loses somebody from freaking Arizona.

I want to lose somebody from Ohio or. Yeah. Wisconsin. Right? Yeah. I mean, he had home court advantage, which usually gives you about three hours,

so technically you won. That's how. Right? I mean, Yeah, he knew where he was going. That's not fair. Oh, it's, oh, man. No, it's, you know, in all seriousness,

props to every person who not only just, not only finished, but even just signed up and towed the line. For sure. It's a, that's a big test. I tell people all the time, you know, it's like, nobody cares how long it took, but you got it done. Oh, yeah. Just finish that bitch.

There's quite a few people from here, too, from Oregon. Was there? Yeah, there's two or three people. Oh, nice. Yeah. It was good to see. It's like the same crowd. Yeah.

Yeah. All the regulars. It's awesome. I mean, it's a, you know, we've had some good experiences with Candace's races and, you know, this one being a new one, new challenges and all. But yeah, I always, I always like Candace. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good. I mean, social media the way it is now, it's like everybody's an armchair quarterback and everybody's perfect and everybody could do it better. And I'm like, how about, you know, you guys. a woman race director, which there's not a lot of them. It's like, can we, can we offer some grace?

I mean, could people do better or what? Yeah, of course, everybody could. But, I mean, they're out there 170. I mean, there are, the racers are out there 170 hours. So these people, so let's say 200. Yeah. You have volunteers. I mean, the amount of water jugs.

I mean, just that type of stuff. Oh, yeah. It's, yeah, I've never had. I mean, I've had more beef and 50Ks of marathons than I have in these. Yeah. You know, there's, yeah, do your expectations get high? Absolutely. Do you get a little, you know.

You get fatigued and cranky. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but the big scheme of things, they provide an awesome experience. Yeah. And they do a freaking phenomenal job. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, super happy. Never had a, you know, I came. Yeah. Yeah. No, I just, you know, and I know people will complain. I just was like, she's been kicking ass doing this. for a long time and, you know, change people's lives with the event she's put on. So I'm like, and I like that, you know, we always talk about, oh, how can women opportunities,

this and that, and this and that. So it's like, well, you got a woman kicking ass in this space. Let's, yeah, let's celebrate that a little bit. I mean, instead of, I, I understand, if people want to criticize, great. But let's just make sure it's legit. Yeah. Yep. But providing an experience for us, it's, man, it's awesome.

This life, these have changed our lives. Absolutely. These races. Yeah. And it's like, where else can you do stuff like this? Once you're, you know, our age, that's going to, you know, impact you, your family, your community, just because it gives people, like, inspiration and changes, like, how you look at things. And it's like, it's amazing.

Yeah. We've got, we're, I'm very thankful for it. I might not be thankful here after May 5th, but we'll see. We'll give her hell. We've got to be rested. I've never went into, normally you want to go into these like 100%. Yeah. So I've never.

And I know like I've been in 100% and kind of done shitty. So maybe going in hurt, maybe that's the key. Could be. We'll find out. Yeah. But you're going to be there, right? Yeah. Good.

Yeah. We're going to be there. We're going to make it happen. Yeah. I can't wait. I can't wait. So what's next for you then? Bighorn.

Bighorn. Really? I've always wanted to do Big Horn. Oh, shit. This would be my 10th 100. So this was my fifth. This year I wanted to get my fifth 200 or plus. Yeah.

Or 200 miles or plus. Yeah. So it's my fifth one. And then this would be my 10th 100. Whoa. So big milestones Yeah Thousand miles of each

Yeah Or more than a thousand Yeah I'm excited I'm excited to see what happens The next couple weeks Because if I can carry out my fitness From Arizona monster The Big Horn could be pretty exciting

That's at the end of June Middle of June Middle of June So You know We'll still know in the next A couple months Yeah

Who's racing that I don't know I don't even know Matt Van Horn He's my boy from Utah He's a race racing it is he he's a hard rock finisher he's a beast so yeah he and i will gun it out hopefully it'll probably be super muddy i guess there was fires and they had to reroute the course and somebody

is telling me but i don't i don't care it's like you get those old races like that it's the same people putting them on it's yeah yeah that yeah that was my first hundred i don't know if you remember oh no i do yeah yeah yeah fucking terrible yeah it's my ass it's it's so far well that's how i felt about Arizona monster. I mean, it's been, you know, the bear was my first hundred and it broke me. Yeah. And it took me a long time.

And then Moab was the next thing that was a disaster. And now this. So hard. This was the next level of that. Just, you know, you, I want you to do Bigfoot. That's one I haven't done. Fuck.

That one sucked. You did a lot of that one with me. You did 100 miles. for sure. 150 of it. I did 150 of it. I paced it. Remember?

Yeah. You wouldn't let me quit. Oh, 100. Huh. Yeah. Softie. Yeah.

Put my shoes back on. Let's do this. Yeah, that was a tough one. You did a lot of that with me. That really helped. Really helped. But man,

that's a long, that's a hard course. It is. This guy, stout time. You know, I'm surprised how fast the times are on it too.

I know. It's very weird. Yeah, it's like, are the dissents that runable? they're just not rocky i don't know what it is it was the client to me the climb seemed hard there wasn't seem like there's a bunch of switchbacks so it's like you just are grinding up slow

yeah that's what it seemed like to me i like that and it's super remote so it there is timber which we like yeah but man it feels like you're in the middle of nowhere wet feet yeah that's all i remember oh god trench foot you put a quarter in it i know that was remember there was I remember Katie. Oh, yeah. Katie at the last station. Her feet were wrecked. How's it look?

Good. Yeah, look. Keep the tape on that. Terrible. You could put a quarter in the cracks. That was not good. No. Her feet were going to disintegrate.

Is it what it looked like, didn't it? I thought they were going to come apart. Like corsons. Yeah. Like a sandwich. Yeah, flaky. I'm like, and at that time she had, where was that at? That was it probably like.

We had like 50K left still, didn't we? Yeah. 50k on Crosophie It's not good That's not good Yeah that's that's brutal Well so big big horn

And then what Is that as far as it goes I really hope I get into Wasatch Yeah I really want to do Wasatch When's that September Oh there's still a chance It's not

They get a wait list Oh okay Yeah so other than that It was actually to get everything done in time that I can have a spent August having an anniversary with my wife and not running somewhere and then hunting the whole month an anniversary no no anniversary month no just that I wasn't focused on running I know it'll probably be hunting though I'm sure yeah no that's how good you do you spend a lot of time she's really really supportive yeah I'm super lucky to have a family that I do that

thinks this stuff's cool yeah it's yeah you kick ass and how was it how was Greg so Greg's your stepdad or no, Greg's my stepdad. He's your dad. Oh, he was a wreck. He was sobbing in the finish video. He's not he's not the greatest for a crew because he's like so wound up all the time. He's like, you know, you want somebody who's calm and like. Collect. Yeah. Yeah. He's like so nervous. Kind of. So nervous. Yeah. It's. But it's good to have your dad there. Oh, man. Yeah. Well, I'm lucky. I'm lucky to have them there. It's like, you know, how many people don't get to do that? He wanted to pace at one point and run and we're like, it's 60 miles.

You know, it was like, there was some tough sections. I would have loved to him to have to be part of that. But just have down there. And he wasn't going to go. He wasn't even going to go. Oh, really? Well, not everybody likes to go with me when I go on races. Yeah, no.

Some reason they think I get grumpy. That's weird. And I get, whatever. Yeah, they're being too sensitive. They're soft. And, yeah. So I told me, so just come with you. he fly with me, you know, and he came down and we made it work.

That's awesome. Yeah. It was good. I don't know where Trace saw, but I saw a picture or video or something, but she's just like, man, Greg looks so good for being, what the fuck is he? 75? 76. 76.

Old as shit. And it's like, if you would have seen him like back on his roller days for Night River and Morse Brothers. I think he looks younger now. He was, yeah, yeah. He was 40. looked like smoking and drinking all the time, always pissed.

And now, like, he looks great. Yeah. That's like, okay, quit smoking, drinking. He started running. When did he start running? It's like 60. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what got me doing it. My six-year-old father was fitter than I was. Yeah. And now he's, you know, it's awesome that he was able to be there. Yeah, absolutely. It is. Pretty cool to see. Is he still going to try to do something?

Like 100? He says no. Okay. He says he's not. I think he needs to try some track stuff maybe. Track? Well, like. Oh, Masters?

No, no. The, uh, uh, Oh, 12-hour stuff? Whatever the last man's standing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. How long he could grind one of those out. I don't know. I mean, he could, he could do the four miles in an hour for quite a while probably.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, that may be more his style. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a tripping and falling that he worries about. Yeah, I get that. Because I can't imagine breaking your leg at 76.

I mean, he's probably pretty strong, but still, the recovery from that can't be, Bueno. No, no. And, you know, your feet, you do kind of lose the dexterity, or, I mean, just like being nimble. Yeah. You know, that kind of goes when you get, that's just natural. About mile 250, that was out the door. I bet. Were you tripping over shit?

Like, I thought I just dislocated my knees. at one point because I just like just like buckle what I had my pulse uh altruous yeah and my pulse were lifesavers really jared's like you i can't believe you caught that it's like you're falling and yeah but there's yeah they're shot are they yeah what do you know for a pack at coconut oh you know i'm a packer headlamp no i haven't thought about anything just trying to get there do i need a pack i think i'll just take a water bottle i'll just take this thermo this right here. Take this and I'll take this. For the, for the listeners, I'd like you to go back to Moab and look at what Cam's pack was. It was like a little knapsack? It was a nathan one that

held a waffle. Like in the back. These are 10-ounce bottles? Yeah, it was, I'm terrible. Yeah, we did get you a good pack. Yeah. So it gets you a good pack. We got you a light. We got you an old old star light. Yeah, the light you brought me was sick. Yeah. That would be game changer. So here's what I'm going to be using, whatever you say. Okay. All right. I got a list. I'm trying to just like tape my body together.

I saw the surgeon today. I was just walking like I have been doing. But he came by on his bike and he's just like, camp? And I said, hey, aren't you supposed to be in surgery today? He's like, oh, yeah, got off early. He's like, how's the foot? And I said, oh, not the foot. It's a hamstring now.

So he looked at it out there. and he was saying it's like it's like low like where the tendon is he's he goes maybe we need to do an image on it I'm like oh I don't know but anyway like he thinks it's that bad or it might not be that bad I just said I can't run

so yeah you can step up can you step up on stuff yeah I can step up it's just the run yeah I just can't stride out is that the same one from back in the day yeah yeah yeah but it's just got because of the foot has made everything oh it's like this whole leg is all and it was fine or it wasn't fine but like i can't do boston because now because when i when i

stretch out like a fast pace it stretches that and then it locks so that's what when shelby was just here i thought well i gave it a little bit of time let me see if i can i wasn't even running that you know she runs like a Two minute mile or something. But yeah, I did it again. So I just can't stride out. As long as I don't do that, I don't know what.

Well, I don't have to worry about that at Coca-Dona. I know. That's why I'm like, this might be a blessing. Because coordinating all then will take off, and I want to take off so bad. But you can't. I want to. It's not worth it.

And it would just, I know it's sabotage everything. Yeah. Yeah. But I have a really hard time not 15 hour 50s. I'm telling you. So that's a ticket. If I can be disciplined for five seconds for once in my life. Yeah.

It would be good. You just. Well, Moab is when you did. That was, we were then. Discipline. When we did Moab. Oh, yeah. We stuck together.

We lay low. And Courtney was way the hell out there somehow. It was like, what? Where? days or 20 hours or 10. I don't know what it was. Nuts. But that, do you remember?

I mean, we were dry. That first 19 miles. Remember how dry we were? Sitting by that. I don't even know what the pond. We were looking at, looking at, for water to turn to get water. Some nasty desert ditch or pond or. Your comment was, I've drank things in Africa that weren't this bad.

I know. It was, but I wanted to drink so bad. It was so bad. Oh, I felt like... We were sitting under a tree in the first 30 miles looking for shade. I remember my throat was like in your nose. Everywhere, everywhere is supposed to be like sort of moisturized. It was even inside your throat.

Yeah. We're only 19 miles into this thing. So, you know, that never happened, a monster. The whole nostril, raw. Really? Tahoe too. But that's, yeah, Kokadona didn't do it either. That's weird.

What that is. I don't know. But Moab was for sure. That was like, we thought we were sunburnt in our nostrils or something. It was like the color that was red. It was so bad. It was terrible.

Moab was, I'm going to go back to Moab though. Yeah. That's a, that's, I think. Well, I got my buckle stolen.

I got to go back and get a new buckle. You got to. What else are you going to do? Candace keeps trying to give me one, but I said, I can't give someone a buck. I know you did it. Here's a buckle.

You got to go back and get your buckle. You got to. So yeah, on an Arizona monster. So tell me about your, your salt. What were you doing for salt, hydration, and fuel? Were we trying to do the carbs per hour and all that shit? No. What about salt?

I'm not very good at this part. This is like wrapping your feet. People are like, you don't put anything on your feet. I just sucks. I was listening to a podcast. There's like people who are so anal. No, it's probably just smart. But about their foot, their feet care.

It is crazy. And their calories and like their sleep. And it's just like, holy shit, I don't think about any of this. I don't either. I am like, okay, I would look at it and say, okay, I'm going to eat one jill an hour. It's going to take me about five hours. Just take five of these.

And then I had electrolytes and water. Okay. So, and I didn't know if the electrolytes actually even had calories in it. Okay. All I know is a tailwind or what was it? No, it was that never second. It was something new. I know what that is.

Yeah. I said, I was second. That's what I told. I put on their thing because I, one of them was horrible. It was, uh, like popery.

It was like this chemical, weird, perfumi and it was really hard to put down. Yeah. The lime one was pretty good. Okay. Um, but so you didn't,

you didn't have a plan for calories and any of that. Like how much salt were you taken? Do you know? No. Like, so no, no S caps? I,

I took S caps. in the heat of the day, the hot, when I was like, it's hot, I had Adam. We took two every, every hour. We did that for about three or four hours one day. Okay. And that was it. I just, were you sweating much? Like at night? You said you're cold. No, not at night. I wasn't. Yeah. No, I never, you know, like some of those you know when you're sweat, you're like, you're chasing it a little bit. Well, you run kind of hot. I mean, you, you sweat more than I do. Yeah. And I never, I didn't worry about it until it was that. last day in the heat.

Yeah. But we were pretty good with weather, though. Yeah. It was pretty nice. Yeah. And I never pushed. You know, I never, you know, my heart rate was never pumping. Yeah.

Yeah. How much water did you have? Did you pack? I had the two soft flask. There's like 16 ounces and then a bladder that was 80 ounces. Oh, and you filled all those up? Yeah. Oh, God.

That's quite a bit of weight. Yeah. Oh, man. My pack was legit. That's pretty heavy. It was heavy. Yeah. Yeah, it was heavy.

Especially if you have the jacket in there. I did the whole time. I created two head lamps, batteries. I had socks. I had down coat. I had pants. I had sleeves. I had sunscreen batteries, cords for my phone for my watch.

I had contacts. My normal, like little Advils just in case. Yeah. KT tape. Food. Yeah. All that. Dad's up.

Big time. It wouldn't fit my little... Your phone, some butt wipes, some bare butt wipes. Yeah, no, it was legit. Okay. And it was one of those. I'd start drinking off the water first thing to get... Oh, yeah.

Get rid of that weight. Yeah, on your back. Yeah. Yeah, a shell, down shell, sun hoodie. Yeah, I had a lot. I think, like, my new plan was, I think, because it's... Maybe because I don't... don't think about all this science bullshit and all this gear like i think let's just start this off

where you can't take any water or calories or for 100 miles yeah just a te you wear whatever you got on that's what you got yep go as long as you can yep i like it your carbs per hour you know i uh let's see who dies first i think there's some like basic is just having this conversation with somebody there's like some basic like fundamental functions that your body has that you can't cheat it's like you're not going to take in all these carbs for very long i don't know i don't think you can i think you're going to get sick i don't know i hear some of these numbers people putting up i know yeah i said and then the one guy i told okay listen i get that's what you think you're taking but that's just because the package is bigger that's the one reason you're taking more that's what you bought yeah right

If you go back to the old goo, gel. Yeah. And what it is, you know, I don't think you can get far off of that. Other than being hot, you need salt. I think you've had that. For sure. If you're drinking some calories, you're eating solid food, so long as you're not 160 heart rate, I think you'd be all right.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure there's people that all listen to this. They'll talk about how stupid we are. Absolutely. And it's like, you're right. We're not arguing. But this ketone thanks? Yeah.

It's pretty good. Those are legit. Those helped. I had one. I drank them all until I got that last aid station. I had a, I filled one of my soft flas with coffee. Oh. And I had one of these.

And he got me going. There you go. It was good. I wish I had more. I used to take like a. How many should you have though? Because I, you gave me two boxes.

Yeah. I went through all those pretty quick. That's fine. You're still like a cup of coffee? You're still here. Okay. I don't know what they say. say there's like i said

none of that there's nothing about doing that that's good for you so oh i didn't yeah no they're definitely i was i was even thinking like didn't like hitler give his troops meth i'm like could i have a look just a just a just a if i get tired just a touch a meth wonder if it helped i think it's decision making that goes out the door well consider yeah the fact that i'm considering it right now and I haven't run one mile. Don't offer it to me 200 miles there. Oh, caffeine pills.

Have you done that? No, that's what I was going to say. We need that. I used to buy those, was it Viverin or? Remember those in the yellow bottle or yellow box? Yellow jackets? No. I know what you're talking about.

It's yellow and blue box. Yeah. Vibron. Oh, yeah. And then people, you know, got fancy and went to five hour energies. But I'm like, I just need that, those yellow caffeine pills. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're going to need them for Cocoa. I guess we'll skip that. I think they're for real. I had one day, there was one afternoon. I started getting a headache because about 2 o'clock. And I realized that I left the aid station early in the morning and only had like a little bit of coffee. And it haunted me. Really?

Yeah. Until that afternoon I had a cup of coffee. And I was like, okay, I'm better. Yeah. Headache from not having it. All right. So we'll come up with the plan for caffeine, salt. And then today I ran, I didn't run.

because I can't run but I was walking I went to run hub and I got one of the I got a jealous spring pretty good yeah and then I got a uh a goo oh no goo uh choose like you just got two just to try them out yeah and oh I bought socks too because I had I was wearing these shoes that ben Blakenship gave me and walking tears up your feet that's and it's like I'm used to running and it's like so now I've just been walking everywhere and I'm like God I'm I need some socks. I went there and got socks and some calories. That's a good point. That's, you know, that, man,

looking at Kokadona. It's, yeah, practice that, man, because that's, that's for real. I've been walking my ass off.

I started walking like on Sunday, 18 minute miles, and now I'm down to in the 15s. That's, so I'm like 24. I know. 45, baby,

we're almost there. I know. Yeah. So I'm like, if I can get better at walking, I've never done this. Maybe this is going to, We could be on to something.

Serious. I'm always, that's like, these guys are so fast going into this race. I'm like, I can't even run a five and a half minute. I mean, I can, but these guys are all doing it like on the road. Like, it's a regular thing. I'm like, I would be broken. Yeah. So you don't have to be fast.

You just walk down. And I was thinking like, so normally in my head, I'd be like, well, if I, I'm going to go run 20 miles. That's what I usually do. I take off. Well, it's about 18. And I go down to that footbridge by Meras. and then back. Okay.

And I can do that. I can get there in an hour back. So it's like two hours. And I wouldn't run any more than that. I'm still just getting 20 miles, except now I'm doing it in six hours. So it's like triple time on my feet. That's got to be useful.

Oh, it is. That time on your feet. Because you know how you start walking like, I never walk. My hips are pissed. My hips are fucking, so I'm like, God, I can get this shit out of the way now. You gotta get the poles out now.

Yeah. You need with pulls. That's what I, maybe tomorrow I'll do, I'll just do a bunch of summits and with the poles. Even just walking flat ground, knowing, getting efficient. Yeah. Because that's true. That's a big part of it. Because I'll tell you that was the thing after my shoulders.

I used those poles the entire time. I never put them away. Never broke them down. You have a little white thing on there. I don't know what the hell that is. It's a sticker from an apple. It looks like. That's just snort my math.

Getting used to it for the race. He's practicing. Do you start meth? I don't know. I need to figure that out. I think we should probably stick to the caffeine pills. Okay. It's probably a good start.

And more ketone, IQs. All right. That sounds probably a little safer. Have maybe just a bladder full of that. I don't know what that would do. I don't know. Probably want to find out. I'm just,

I'm willing to try anything. But whatever. We're going to get there and see what happens. There's a lot of fast people in Kokodona. There's a ton of fast people. He's going to be a barn burner. God. But like,

Cornage. What'd you get in that one? It's 80-some hours? 88. 80. Oh, same? No, I was, I did 86.

86. Yeah. I mean, normally. But it was a different course than you guys were. Yeah. I mean, I was, I don't even,

who knows what my body's going to do, but 80 would be good. Sure. Would that be good? I think they're going to, I think somebody's going to win it in like 60. Oh, yeah, maybe. Right.

Someone that's getting paid. I know. Somebody that's a beast. Those fast guys. I couldn't imagine having to just like get up and be like, guess my workouts could be your job. Yeah, I know. Wouldn't that be nice?

Get up at 430 and talk on the phone at work. God. Go turn some wrenches. I know. You do amazing. But, you know, for the most part, most ultra runners. aren't that's just not their job it's so hard to make money in ultra there's like yeah because five of them well plus the people who care the most are the people doing it none of us have enough money to

do anything anyways it's like you know if your if your time and your effort was worth money yeah but it's like i mean even people watching they think we're mentally oh yeah who'd ever do that who'd ever run 300 miles i want i want it to be more professionalized because it's such an amazing sport but it's like i guess maybe this uh you know the exposure helps more people talking about it it should it should elevate i think and give the opportunities to people but still there's always like the gatekeepers of the of the any community there's this in bell hunting too is like they don't want it to grow yeah so you got to kind of fight those people a little bit yeah yeah you just i think they just people we need to find creative ways to tell people's stories you know because

there's fast people and they're going to win and there's going to be competitive people. Yeah. Being able to paint and create stories for people to relate to, you know, that's, that's where I think it's got to be is, yeah, some of these companies have to pay, pay these people to be a spotlight. It seems like Max has an opportunity to kind of do that. Yeah. Yeah.

He's marketable. That's good for the sport. Yeah. People do like, I see comments. I think I reshared it, but like they love just like your story, you know, dad regular job grinder and podium you know that gives because people just want hope they just want to be like could i ever do that well this guy this guy has a regular job and he did it so it gives there's something special about that too yeah yeah yeah yeah you do a great job of um and then always

always being supportive of like you know those those guys who you run with danny and gavin um Just always being in spite camp, just like being so involved in the community and being such an inspiration, such a figure-your-head that people can look up to and model themselves after. So it's like you deserve so much credit for that. It's been amazing to watch. Yeah, thanks. I love it. I love it. I love all the success you've had.

Well, what we do now is, what do we do now, guys? Gideon and Larry. Collective questions. They come up with stupid questions. Penaing Gallery. The peanut gallery. The Muppets. Somehow, I don't know.

Well, they get, okay, we're not going to do the who is Taylor Spike because I hate that one. That one's like, lazy. We're not going to do the whatever, but they actually do come up with good questions somehow. We have to do FMK. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, that's a good one. I like that one. Okay.

So. I kind of feel like I'm a shit talkers. I'm excited. Yeah, anything goes on this part. Okay. All right. So, fuck Mary Kill. Yeah.

Monster, Tahoe, Cocodona. Had a lot of success at Tahoe. At Mary Tahoe. Mary Tahoe. Yeah. Two, well, second, third. Second male. Third overall.

Twice. Yeah. Both directions. Both directions. So, yeah, had a lot of success there. Yep. Mary Tahoe. Who are you fucking and who are you?

killing. So you got to kill, never do it again. By Arizona Monster. And then you're gonna, what are you marrying? Wait, what was the last one? Wait, then I have to go back. Then that means I have to go back to Kocodona and I got to fuck it. Or no, who do, who were you marrying? Tahoe. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're just going to have a good time with whenever you want to with Kocodona. Yeah. Yeah. And Arizona I'm out. It's a buddy. Yeah. Arizona is me. That monsters. That was enough? I think that was enough. I mean, I'm a week removed and kind of changing my mind, but it's hard to go back to that stuff.

That was it crazy. You thought it was a girl, but it was a trainee. And so now you're like, it was exactly that. I'm going to win. No, you're not. Yeah. Hey, guess what? You're going to live with not winning for a whole day.

Yeah. Okay, that's a good one. I like it. When Shelby was here, she asked Cam, what does he think about when things get hard so what do you think about oh shit um i coined to saying uh it'll never heard as much as it did that one time there you go yeah so when you fate when you faced it and lived through it that's got to give you hope for the next time huh yeah yeah yeah yeah it can be worse it can be worse and if that's like i told baxter

he was he was saying something about one of the dads saying your dad's crazy i don't know how you can do that. I was like, you know, I've seen the darkness. The same in it. Yeah. No. This is living. We're lucky to do this. All these people supporting us, encouraging us and all those people online watching for days. When you ever get to do something, it can be that selfish that all these people are like, yeah, go get it. Usually you go on vacation at work and people are like, can't wait for for the fuck to come back. But this is like, they're encouraging you to stay out there and get it done. This is, you don't get that. So no, I mean, that's, it feels, I guess it can feel. I can feel miserable at times but then I think to your point or what I think about miserable I think about

being a drunk having no direction having nothing positive going on in my life and looking in the mirror going is this it waiting to die that's that's being miserable that's miserable so signing up for a race and pushing our bodies and being and getting getting celebrated for that's fuck come on that's not It's pretty awesome. Yeah, that's amazing. You kind of talked about your hallucinations, but Andy Glaze posted a video where he was like, all right,

I just saw this guy in a purple suit. He's hiding behind this rock. Let's go see you together. He flips around the camera and there's nobody there. And then he flips it back on himself and he's like, I'm so cooked. Did you have any other weird hallucinations or? I kept thinking Adam was asking me questions.

And I would respond and start talking and then realize how he's, he's responding he didn't say anything yeah and i was pretty sure i think you and i did that too i kept hearing voice remember i heard the women talking or laughing yeah yeah voices that's one i don't not hallucinating seeing anything waking up thinking that the doctor was checking me because i thought i was dead that's a good one i like that there was another yeah yeah no real clear ones but definitely the voices oh oh um i think i did EJaveu, like, I assume this is what it is, but there was about 10 hours that I was convinced I had been on this trail. Yeah.

I was like, I know this next corner. I know this ridge. And Adam was just laughing. And finally, I'd realized I was so tired that the delay from seeing it to my brain saying I'd seen it, I could, I could feel it. I mean, it was plain as day. Yeah. Does that make sense? Just it was like running.

I felt like I was floating down the trail when I realized I'm not really, you're just delayed so long. Yeah. I'm not going to react. It's, uh, I want, hopefully Macy can find this video, but that's exactly like what happened. Courtney was in, I can't remember what she was doing. I think it was a Colorado trail when she's going after that record. It wasn't when I was with her, but she was sitting there drinking, I think, coffee or something. And she's like, have we already done this?

Yeah. And they're just like, what do you mean? She's like, I feel we already did this, right? And they're just like, no. I asked a guy, I said, hey, when you come around this corner, is there like a, like it looks like a projector screen, like a driving theater? And he's like, that's not here.

And I'm like, really? I've been here. You know, oh, yeah, it was horrible. Yeah. So that's, I think like that long without sleep, like maybe that second night, you know, the first night we can get through is fine. But second night, your brain starts, your brain is like, what are we doing here?

After 60 hours, something happens. Yeah, it gets for real. It gets, yeah, you go a little nuts. Yeah. Brain just doesn't work right is basically what's happening. And I don't know how to explain it. But yeah, me and Maggie were running with Courtney on that Colorado Trail. And I would ask her something and she wouldn't say anything.

And then it'd be like way down the trail, like a long time. And then she'd answer. I'm like okay yeah it seemed quick I seemed witty what else you got a lot of people talk about ultramarathons and how um you know it's a form of therapy because it's just you and yourself out there so what's one truth you had to face about yourself during this race is your good ones um that i'm soft that that i have sold myself i sold myself short i've sold myself short i can do more I can always do more. I, you know, might not be a lot, but, and it wasn't even in running.

It was more just in life. You know, it's, you think you're tapped. You've reached your max. You've done this. But there's, there's, there's, I can do more. I can do more. Yeah. It's like, yeah, finding.

Yeah, we, we, yeah, what's our true limit? Because we quit way before it generally. Yeah, well, it's. And then you, then a race like this shows you like, God, what have I been doing? doing. I've been capable of this a whole time. Like I told them, I was like, and I thought I've been too tired to go for a run before. It's like, when you're 100% fresh or just because you ran the day before. Oh, yeah. Right. Or I just, it was that. And then just knowing that, you know, you still have time and that, you know, there's some clarity things in there too, just in life in general, you know, that how can you be,

you know, how can you impact your family more, you know, just that type of stuff. You know, 88 hours to think about it. You get through most of that in about 24. Yeah. And then you can reel it back and reel it back. And then you start over analyzing. And then you start beating yourself up. I'm glad I don't have a notepad.

Yeah. Because it would read it and go, this f***er's nuts. Yeah. His doctor's right. Pretty clinical. That's what I think one of the questions. Yeah, these guys, these guys had a good one, I think was, maybe it's for Courtney. She's like, or not she.

They asked if you could trade brains with anybody. at the end of a race, something like that. And I was just, I don't know what, I think that was how it was worded, but I was like, people wouldn't want my brain. Because if they had, if they knew what I was thinking,

they'd be like, this fuckers nuts. Yeah. You are nuts. So, yes, you're, what you think about in your head or how you, you know,

your perception or self-reflection is like, it could be tough sometimes. Oh, yeah. It's like all stripped away and it's ugly. You're pretty wrong. Yeah. Yeah, but that was a good question. You talked about waiting at the start line, watching everyone kind of go so you could then reel everybody back in past them.

I just want to hear kind of a little bit how your mindset change from mile one to, you know, mile 299. It didn't. I was going to be patient. I was going to be patient. the only thing it happened in those first couple miles was getting lost a couple times and that was like okay I'm in the back of the Congo line it is what it is I got plenty of time and that was just kind of the whole that whole deal was like I got plenty of time I got plenty of time I just got to do my thing not blow up and I got time I never my gameplay never changed

you know there's times that they're like the crew was like okay here we need to do this and that I said it's this not how this is going to work I'm just going to stick to my plan Keep eating, keep drinking, just keep moving forward. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I couldn't get out of that headspace. It's so mental. It's like, I wish there was a way to trick yourself. Like to just, to, just, you make it all about everything else.

But really, it's just like just a will to keep taking another step. That's what I told those guys. I said, all we're doing is willing ourselves. We're all fit. We're all fit. We were willing ourselves to the finish. Yeah. I mean, that's what it comes down to.

You're just telling yourself you can do it. And that's where I was, you know, that whole, you know, you see the barred or, you know, you see the finish. And also it starts getting hard. Yeah. I wanted to keep that away so bad because that was the thing I knew. If I got to 200, I'm like, I only got 100 to go. Or at some point, I would let my guard down. Yeah.

It was going to get harder. Yeah. So you just focused on the moment. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Taking another step.

Take another step. Take another step. Yeah. It was focusing on that over and over and over and over. Yeah. that's good that's good advice all right last one uh what's you have to choose one one moment from this race that you wish you could replay oh man um probably hugging my dad at the finish that'll be one of wish i could keep in the bank yeah that'll be important for a long time

yeah how'd that feel um well you know you're you like to always think your dad's probably of you right but you don't always really get that that was like the first time that I was like okay I know he's been proud of me and I and I know from a sibling you know you probably have seen it but I never really felt like he was super proud until then you know I was like just three hours before that I totally let those guys down thinking I was going to quit and he'd like turned his back and walked away he's just like that you know how he gets he gets frustrated and didn't know what to do and to go from that to finishing and being done and knowing that I had impacted those guys as much as I had by not quitting was pretty special that's pretty special what did he say

uh nothing he was just sobbing you know just you know and holding him you know he's he's old now you know it's like hold you know it's like hold you know it's a you know we won't i don't get me more of those yeah you know that's one day i won't get it so to be able to get it there and have him there was super super special so Yeah. It's a powerful moment. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. Greg, you definitely should be proud of your son. Yeah. Yep. We all have different why as I pulled back every one of my hat on this one. You know, it was hard. It was hard as far. It was the first time I'd ever been like, I'm done.

I don't want to run anymore. Then, you know, they all just kind of, nobody really said anything. They just kind of walked me out. They had to help me down the stairs. I almost fell out of the back. the camper and as you know like i said it was you know you have your kid you're like you got to try harder and your kids make this like exaggerated effort to run like they swing their arms weird i just pictured myself doing that as gerard's like you got to go and i was swinging my arms and i was

just swinging as fucking hard as i could just trying to get some momentum i just i did not want to do that last that last section but wow you uh you uh You make a big impact on this world and I'm very proud of you. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, you're amazing. I see what you do for the people here. I know how you impact me. I know how good it feels to be able to talk about you and share your accomplishments and say,

my brother's a beast. Yeah. Very proud of you. I'm glad you can say that. I'd try hard, try hard. Well, thanks for the recap. I love you. Good job.

Thanks. Yeah. Amazing, amazing accomplishment. So, yeah, that was fun. I'm sure people enjoy the discussion. And a lot of questions, a lot of feedback on you. A lot of, I see a lot of people celebrating you. So, yeah, thanks for doing it.

this yeah absolutely all right guys keep hammering thanks again