Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 141 - Brian Deegan

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

Brian Deegan - American freestyle motocross rider, X Games medalist, and off-road racer. Brian’s known for founding Metal Mulisha, landing the first 360 in FMX competition, and later winning championships in off-road and rallycross racing. He’s also the father of professional racers Hailie and Haiden Deegan. Join us for a conversation about Motocross, dangers in the sport, how Brian manages his business and social media channels to continue to grow, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Brian: https://www.instagram.com/briandeegan38/  Thank you to our sponsors: MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off  Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Timestamps: 00:00:00  Business and Social Media Presence 00:06:29  Credibility on Social Media 00:09:33  Taking Risks to Build the Deegan Empire 00:13:53  Forks in the Road: How Brian Almost Died 00:17:48  Any Regrets on the Edge of Death? 00:20:33  Brian’s Crash that Almost Killed Him 00:23:41  Being a Supportive Dad Through Kids Growth 00:36:52  An Avenue Out of Being Average 00:38:32 14 Years Old & Finding a Place to Train Year-Round 0041:44 Taking Risks as a Kid 00:47:55  Pressure from Travis Pastrana 00:50:48  Crusty Demons of Dirt 00:52:57  Metal Mullisha 00:56:11  Action Sports Vibe in the 90’s 00:57:25  Action Sports to Truck Racing 01:02:31 Providing Through Marketing & Licensing 01:04:58 Documentaries - Are the Deegans Bigger than Motocross? 01:06:54  Navigating Deals & Sponsors 01:10:34  Navigating Partnerships 01:18:44  Behind the Scenes - The Side You Don’t See 01:23:07  The Dangers of Motocross 01:29:19  Long Term Healthcare in Motocross & Supercross 01:34:47  What Makes the Best Riders, the Best 01:41:10  Raising Tough Kids 01:45:20  The Effect of Bodyweight in Racing 01:50:14  Difficulty of Riding Through Shadows 01:51:59  Is Haiden Deegan Ready to Race 450? 01:53:20  Training Motocross Kids to be the Best 01:59:22  The Secret to Success: Having Goals 02:02:42  F#$k, Marry, Kill: Motocross, Freestyle, & Truck Racing 02:06:03  Outro Badass Raptor Giveaway:https://cameronhanes.com/pages/hennesseyraptor

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. All right.

We are with Brian Deegan on the Keep Hammering Collective. Dude, I cannot believe you're here. Yeah, it's been a few years in the making. When did we start talking about this? Yeah. It's been a little while. Yeah. I mean, I've known of you forever.

Okay. Yeah. But I never thought that you'd be here. You are like, because I always say what I, who I have on the podcast is outliers. And you are like the definition of outlier. And now, now, you know, I'm still older than you, but, you know, you've been around a while. Yeah. And still, but still fucking shaking things up.

How does that work? Yeah, I think it's, uh, just keep reinventing myself. And I feel like I love marketing, I love business, you know, in the categories that I enjoy. You know, I've been pretty fortunate to ever have to do much that I don't want to do as far as, like, categories. But, yeah, I feel like nowadays it's my category is more like mentoring my kids, I would say. Yeah. And finding my space, my niche, you know. But I had all my years of action sports, motorcross, supercross, car racing, and all that stuff.

And now it's, yeah, I'd say I'm middle-aged man. So I have that going on. And there's always an audience for that. So it's good. Well, I know now I've been to a couple events. And all I know is every time I'm around you, there's a million people yelling, Brian, Brian, Brian, Deegan, Brian, Brian. It's like nonstop. People want picture, want some time.

something so yeah i mean you say your middle age and like the dad thing but man you still got a presence out there yeah and uh in our sport such as i i'll say action sports and you know motor sports i grew up and more of the 80s 90s i'd say 90s was kind of my era and so those guys from the 90s that were young teenagers that grew up in the my era of action sports militia the whole vibe and they are now the 40s and 50s with kids and their kids are now following my kids and now kids are all watching consuming their content through YouTube so and we started our YouTube channel over man it must have been it's over 10 years ago now we've been doing YouTube and we were one of the first ones in the motocross industry to do it and we just stayed at

it and it has built the craziest fan base I mean more than I could ever think of you know know, is people following the journey of our kids from when they were younger racing. And they first started watching because of my ex-games and action sports and car racing. And then they were watching the kids. And I always felt like together was stronger, okay? Like instead of investing my time in, you know,

a lot of other things, which I say you have your stock value. Your name is your stock value to me. You got one product. One product is your brand, right? And that's your name and that's your, you know, credibility. And so, and I am always invested back in my family. And I felt like that was important. And, you know, I definitely had pushed back of like,

oh, why would you expose your kids, your family on YouTube and this at? And I thought, well, you know, I get your point. But we've always shown action. You know, we don't show too much personal. It's just like, okay, we're filming and showing what we're already doing, which is racing. You know, racing, action sports, flipping dirt bikes. you know, the fun stuff in the yard, that, you know, stuff people can relate to.

And I feel like that journey has been something people have followed, you know, getting back to the point of 90s, you know, generation. And now you have people that have followed me. Now their kids are following my kids. It has been a generational thing. And now I think that's why the fan bases have gotten so big, you know. Yeah. It's a, that is, it's a delicate balance, too, because people want all the information.

They want all the behind the scenes. They love YouTube. They love seeing the racing, but they want it all. They want to know everything. That gets tough sometimes, huh? Yeah, it does. And I think you have to be able to draw a line, you know. And it's hard because social media will bait you and favor you to do things that sometimes you don't want to do.

And the way I explain that is, you know, like, for example, my kids like, oh, they'll start posting something and it gets a lot of views, but it's not the right, morally the right thing, right? And I'm like, dude, like, you got to be able to draw a line. But the problem is they are good at what they do on social, these companies. So they can bait you into like, oh, views, views, so you know, girls are the best example of that. Like, oh, show a little this, show that, getting better views. And at some point, yeah, you got, like, okay, where's my line on? I'm drawing. Where's my morals? And I think that's a tough thing with social media because it's a slippery slope that you got to stay in control of it. And anyway, you get rewarded for this type of

behavior and this type of content. And you like seeing that, those insights, the likes, the comments. You're like, and it's even if you're not intentionally thinking about it, you're just naturally drawn to like, oh, they like this because I remember this blew up. We'll do more of it. Do more of it. Yeah. And you can to catch yourself. And, you know, fortunately, I've been able to have good partners and have lifelong sponsorships and, you know, good deals that I've had such. I've ridden dirt bikes, you know, X games.

You know, I was there when Monster was Hansen's energy, you know, back in the day. And then it turned into, you know, basically created monsters. So anyway, I've been there from the beginning with a lot of these guys. So I've had these relationships that have carried on. And that has been a good, like, foundation for me with all my sports stuff. Yeah. And it's carried on through my kids. So social is awesome, but it's kind of the icing on the cake, I guess, you know.

So what's the cake, then the performance? I would say, yeah, winning races, right? Like, and that always has the value. That's the credibility. Yeah. Like, I tell my kids, like, you can go out and be the best way I could explain it. Like, with my daughter, I said, okay, what is your value in in um i'd say in your career right now you know she's a well i'm a

race a girl races cars right that that that's yeah okay i go that's that's a good value right so that's rare yeah i go with with a rarity comes value and i said so all right so your girl who races nascar i go all right now i know you're going down this path of social media and love the youtube and all the other stuff it's it's quick easy money i go but how many pretty girls do you do? I go, you know, all of a sudden, now you're one of a million, right? So I go, well, you kind of got to decide

which one you want to go down. And for me, that's my going back to racing. Like, it's rare for guys to be champions or girls to be champions in racing because it's hard. Yeah. You know, and you look at people who do hard things, they carry credibility for life, I feel.

You know, in social media, you have these YouTube's insane. you know people that do big things on the internet and they come and go yeah like you know i don't know very rare to see ones like for example the let's just say the the paul brothers or whatever they they started off on social youtube what did they have to do to to really get the credibility yeah they had to start fighting right i start like competing and becoming these athletes and anyway that's just my opinion on it yeah i see that you know because my side sounds pretty heavy on social media too, one of them.

And there's a lot of like influencer, like people who are in shape. You can look good for, you know, a few photos, do things. And what I told him too is like, he stands out because he also gets on the starting line of races. Yeah. And competes and has good times. And it's like, or sets a world record and something. There's a lot of guys who can look good in a video for 30 seconds.

Yeah. And do this, this whole thing. and probably get some views, but how long is that going to last? Because that's a million guys out there are in shape. But the fact that he can line up and compete, put himself out there and say, no, I'm doing this race and here's going to be my time.

People don't like that part of it because that can expose, you know, if you don't have real talent, you're exposed. Yeah. And then that's where you say, where it's not going to last. It doesn't last. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, there's a formula there, I think. And there's always a respect for things that are hard, which you know i mean it just it's you can't get around it yeah people can talk shit but at the end of the day it's just like what are they really going to say yeah if you're doing hard stuff yeah yeah it's hard to put down the guy who's doing things that you're not willing to do right that's a yeah i've seen so many great clips i love your clips like when you get fired up yeah or i shared that one i remember from i think it's from gypsy tales a podcast and uh yeah you're going on about it reminded me of like the must be nice thing and it's something about maybe your

dad was just a pussy or something talking about these kids that didn't get the opportunities because their dad didn't yeah didn't lay it out there in the line when they could have yeah you know yeah that was a yeah every so often I guess I go on rants but and and yeah sometimes they were good sometimes not they're little ruthless but I feel like uh yeah I remember saying because we were getting some heat or Hayden was getting heat my son When he first came into motocross, Supercross, oh, yeah, you're just good because your dad gave you everything, right? And I get it. I get that part for sure.

I was a young kid, you know, basically I had to have a paper route to get my first dirt bike. And I had to work for everything I had. And my dad did, you know, support me with what he could. He was a teacher. So, you know, like, it wasn't come from rich household. But he, you know, and like I said, my parents separated when I was probably 10 or 11. So my dad would take me to the races on the weekends. That was it.

And he learned how to work on the dirt bike. And it was an effort for sure. I totally appreciate it. But we were nowhere near the guys at the races with the nice coach, the nice motor home, all the bikes. Right. We were in the like pickup truck with, you know, old junkie truck with a trailer on one bike, right? Yeah. Which was fine.

It built my character. And it made me, you know, appreciate things, work hard. And I was able to, you know, take that. work ethic, you know, moved to the West Coast, chase my dreams, and build this empire through action sports of, you know, winning medals and taking big risk, right? I, you know, 360s on dirt bikes, backflips,

before there was phone pits, all this stuff, we took big risk. And with that came, you know, it was big, big views on TV. There wasn't really much internet at the time. But X games came around every, you know, twice a year or whatever, and we would take over that whole ESPN.

and deal and it blew up but man it was huge risks a lot of a lot of hospital stays a lot of broken bones a lot of near-death experiences and um i paid the paved the way to to have that life and so i was able to hand it down for my kids you know and give them the things that i wish i had when i was younger right is that a bad thing i guess yeah it can be you know and then there's also the times were like, okay, well, how do you teach a kid to appreciate those things? That's a battle. It is a battle. I get it. But somehow was able to go, okay, here's our foundation. Our foundation is faith, family. And like I always say, faith, family freedom. That kind of describes our family, right? And so we have done that since the time the kids, you know, growing up,

school, everything was about this foundation. And I feel like that stuck with them. And they, learned how to compete, how to work hard, and how to not want to ever lose, not give up. And so that carried through. And getting back to the point where people are like, oh, Hayden's had everything. That's why he's winning. I'm like, okay, yeah, I get that, you know. And I go, so what are you mad at me? Yeah, you mad at me?

Because I took risk and, like, broke bones to have this and give it to my kids. Could have died multiple times, right? Yeah, and I almost did, like, almost did die at one instance. And so just to the point, like, and that's why I went on that rant of, hey, don't get mad at me because your dad was a pussy and didn't take risk like I did. And that's, I know, it's a harsh way to put it, but that's the reality of the life I lived, you know? I was like, hey, I took risk, almost, you know, and I was able to give that to my kids. And my kids took advantage of it. And that's the most respect they could show me.

You know, say, hey, we're going to take what you gave us and multiply it and succeed. Yeah. So that formula has been great, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So anyhow, there's that point touching on that where, yeah, I lost my kidney. It was back, did a backflip at Viva Labam in the wind, came up short, handlebar went in my stomach. I blew up my kidney and my spleen.

And there's no ambulance on the scene. I mean, a lot of people know this story in my industry, but anyway, I go to the hospital, almost dying, bleeding out. And about almost an hour until I got into surgery. And I hadn't, like, no, like, pulse was real light. And the doctors were asked, like, rush emergency surgery, got to the hospital.

And, you know, anything you want to tell your family, we don't know what's going on inside. We're going to, they basically cut you all the way open, pull your, you know, one organ out at a time. There's a procedure, it's called, where they start, like, looking inside. Yeah. And so they ended up, you know, intestines,

and they get to my kidney and it's shattered, like blown off the artery. So they end up taking the kidney out, sewing up the artery. So imagine having your artery severed for 45 minutes, you know. So my stomach was huge, just full blood. And so I remember going to sleep, like right before into surgery. I was like, I remember that was my moment where I was like, please, God, let me live. You know, I'm about up to that point. I was a pretty rebel dude, you know, and I was like, you know, in and out of church.

And, you know, just kind of like I still hang up. on to that you know the party lifestyle and stuff and and i just remember at that point i already had my daughter haley and um and i just remember i was praying like please god please god let me live through this i go because i just was thinking man i have my daughter and my and my wife and i'm like i'm going to die and i was like this is like the doctor's pretty much saying and like hey we don't know what's going on we're going to look and he's like we're going to do everything we can and i just remember i was barely like i remember i was chewing my lip and tongue like trying to stay away and i was like oh man this is crazy like this is like this is like really really really good and he's really

You know, and so I just remember praying. And then I was just like, please God, let me live. And I remember waking up and doing tubes everywhere. And I was just like, yes, I'm alive. And it was like a heavy moment. I was like woke up and I was like, I woke up and my wife was in the room. My dad was in the room. And I was on the East Coast.

They were on the West Coast when I went into surgery. That's how long I was under like in surgery. So I wake up and I was like, oh, thanks. Thank God. I'm alive. And so they were in the hospital for a few weeks, like recovery deal. Like it was pretty bad. And so I'm like, you know, skinny, pale just like, I'm just barely hanging on and like

recovering. And my wife got super sick in the hospital. And I was like, man, what's going on? And she ended up taking a pregnancy test and she was pregnant with Hayden. And I was like, gee, this is crazy, you know. And just think. On the verge of death. Yeah.

And instead, here's new life. New life right there. And so, hey, we found out, hey, she was. pregnant with Hayden in the hospital. Wow. And I was like, man, it was a lot. It's taken. You know, I was like, what if, what if? You know, all these forks in the road, you know, all these second chances.

And I was like, man, okay, I made my pact and I did, you know, I said, I'm changing my life. And that was it. And from that point on, I went down the path of like, okay, we're going to, we're going to fight off all the bad, you know, things I had going on and try to go down the right path. And it was a tough road for sure. I mean, it gets easier said than done.

Oh, yeah. To kind of weed out the good and the bad and then they get on track. And it took a while, but my focus changed to family at that point. And that was it. And, yeah, you know, he definitely had my ups and downs and, you know, teeter totters and definitely not perfect. Yeah. But it was, you know, a focus on family and a blessing for, you know, to have my son,

like be there for my son being born and all that. So, yeah, it was. And I always think back. to that it's easy to get caught up in life and just be oh yeah life's good and you think about the forks in the road i always say that there's forks in the road yeah you know and there's thinking how many times you made a decision oh man that could have been the end the wrong one the wrong one did did you were laying there you know biting your lip and your in your tongue trying to stay awake did you have regrets did you regret yeah oh yeah i i just remember laying there going man i can't believe

Like I, because I didn't think like, I was probably, you know, how old was that? It was probably like late 20s, maybe 30 maybe at that point. But I was like, man, I can't believe I'm going to die. Like this like went so fast. Like I'm like, this is so quick, you know. And I remember going, man, I didn't really have a chance to like to really live the life of past freestyle motorcross. Yeah. I'm like, yeah.

Yeah, this is hit. I was like, damn, yeah, well, we had a good run. but not really what life's about, right? Yeah, it's. And so, yeah, no, I did. Can I say, like, I always think that, like, one thought that I have a lot, and because I've done a lot of soul searching

in the last so many years, and I just like, man, what if, if you got a choice, if you said, okay, you get a choice to go back to, like, say, 10 years old or whatever, if someone gave you a shot right now to go back to 10 years old and you could start over, would you do it? And I'm like, Would you do it?

Like, it's pretty crazy thought. Like, would you end up, would you make the decisions you made? Would you end up with the person you ended up with? Would you, like, all this stuff? Like, and I think about it and it's crazy because I'm like, life. You're like, think it just happened for a reason, all of it. Yeah, no. No way.

I'm like. It's a plan. And I feel like I can't say I regret. I mean, yes, I regret some dumb things I did. But like, overall, like, I can't say I would change much, you know? Yeah. You know, I just feel like it was. was all learning lessons for me.

And it kind of forms you to who you are. Now I could see why you'd say, no, you wouldn't. If you would have died and now it would be 20 years after you died and you'd see your family, you'd probably be like, yeah, I probably would change a few. You know what I mean? Oh, yes. If you could see that 20 years without your kid's not having a dad. Oh, geez.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, I totally get it. Yeah. I remember watching that film when you got hurt. And did you, like, I know it was windy. And when you crashed, did you, did you like, why did I try that? Yeah, because that day it was, we're filming Viva La Bam. Gwar was playing this heavy metal band.

Bam was skating underneath the ramp. It looked like a big party. Big party, kind of a fun, like one of those typical, like, Jack. guest style shows and um i had a ramp uh freestyle ramp over the skate ramp and it was really really windy that day like crazy like 40 mile per hour crosswinds and and i was riding with a couple buddies and they're like dude we ain't hitting that like and i was like dude well they're all expecting us to do this and they wanted me to backflip at the end of the show over bam and and i remember telling the producer i'm like man i don't know dude it's like super windy and it's

sketchy he's like oh kind of i thought you guys this is what you guys are here for i thought you guys were the man right and i kind of threw that on me and of course young stupid i'm like sorry dude what get ready turn the cameras on and i hit it and just like under rotated and i'm like shit and i come in short and i wasn't even really that out of a crash but i endowed into the top of the jump if i would have gone a little further i would have made it to the landing under rotated hit the top of the jump the front wheel digs into the top of the jump handlebars go into my stomach under my chest plate and it was like a perfect impact under my rib cage with the curvature of the handlebars and then just exploded my kidney fell to the ground and it felt like I just got shot with a gun in the stomach

super like fire in my stomach and and I've never had that pain before I've had bone pain like that but not stomach and organs so I knew it was I was like dude this is bad and so I'm laying there going okay maybe I just knock the wind out of myself And I was trying to catch my breath. And it just started getting, it kept getting worse and worse. And I was like, oh, dude, this is bad. I was like, I need an ambulance. And they're like, there's no ambulance on site,

which I obviously should have thought of that before, but it's young, you don't think about it. No ambulance. So they call an ambulance and literally they, I'm laying there. My stomach's growing and my skin's turning yellow, you know. And I'm like, oh, dude. I was like crazy looking at my buddy, Ronnie Feist. And I was like, do you know, I think I'm going to die, dude.

I go, look at my arm. arms and skin you know we're pretty tough you know we're like we kind of tough out like look at broken like we'd be looking at our broken arm oh i broke my arm you know and then i'm like this is not good i'm like dude this is bad and i'm like we i need to go to the hospital quick and so they a fire truck came in like those um ambulance looking fire trucks and that's like was it and so that pulls in i'm like put me in the fuck dude let's go let's go the ambulance so they put me in the fire truck little ambulance looking thing and pinned it to the hospital. And that was like, I just, I'll never forget that ride to the hospital.

It was just like, oh, like I said, chewing my lip and tongue, like, because I kept falling asleep, you know? And the doctors later told me, like, it was like a point zero something chance of survival once you fall asleep from bleeding out like that, you know? And I was like, dude, it was so, like, so close. But I just knew in my mind, like, don't fall asleep. Like, I know where this is headed, you know? I kind of just, like, I know this is bad.

And man, man, it just was a, it was a, it was a bad. that experience. And anyhow, my point is it was, it was turned out to be a blessing in the end, but I had to kind of go through, unfortunately, you know, a slap in the face there. Oh, that's rough. Well, it's, I did, here's what can trick you into using too much. Chad GPT. I said, I said, what could I say for Brian Deegan's podcast episode? And They are freaking good. Really? Oh, yeah, it's not good if you get lazy.

But I didn't want to read this because I thought, hey, Chad GPT did good on this one. So the episode title they suggested was Brian Deegan, risk, rebellion, and the rise of an outlier. Yeah, pretty good right there, isn't it? So description, he's a motocross pioneer entrepreneur, father. Oh, let's like, what? Okay. Father and straight up renegade In this episode of Outliers

So they screwed up my podcast name But I said it's about outliers Brian Deegan opens up about the mindset That fueled his rise The pain that shaped him And what it means to lead a life on your own terms From founding metal militia From founding metal militia

To mentoring his next gen racing kids Deegan proves that outliers aren't born They're built in the fire Pretty good, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, that's good One thing that I was curious about Um, my wife has seen what I do like with endurance racing and doing all this. And now my son's doing it and she doesn't want them to do it.

No, right. Because it's just like it's never ending, as you said. It's just, this, it's never over. Yeah. You got to keep, if you want to do like, I mean, I'm always like, I got to keep producing. I got to line up. I got to do shit. I got to, I got to prove I am who I say I am.

Mm-hmm. So she's seeing this now for 30 years. She's like, I don't want Truit to have to do that. And I'm like, so what do you think about that? Yeah, I feel like having, honestly, that's a tough one. But because I have to, I feel like the last five to 10 years of my life, I've been trying to put myself in the other side shoes. You know, where as a man, I've done so many years of like,

well, this is how I feel, you know. And now, you know, being married for so long and being through so many different chapters and of life with a partner that I'm like, okay, well, how does she feel? You know, like, wonder what she's thinking right now, you know? And I try to do that a little more, like, give a little more, like, grace and patience and, like, think about it and like, okay, I wonder, because it's very easy for me to go, well, this is the way it is. You know, like, and I'm like, so my point is, as a mom, Like, I have always gone down the path to like every kid has to be a champion, you know, like we, you know, in the story, you know, like whatever it takes.

And, and then I'm like, man. If you're not a champion, you're a loser. I mean, that's the kind of shit I say. I told my kids it's like, if you're average, you're a loser. And then I'm just like, why would I, why would I have said that? Yeah. Because. It's pretty funny.

That's, yeah, pretty much every man wants to say, I guess. But the point is with the kids, now, for example, Haley, I was like, okay, she was into, got into carding, you know, into car racing, chase. I'm like, okay, girl racing, we're going NASCAR, top of the thing, let's go. And so we figured it out, we chased the dream, get her to NASCAR. And then next thing you know, she's like, okay, I got to live in Charlotte and go race NASCAR. and I'm like, whoa, okay, that's crazy. Our daughter just is gone now. And I'm like, would it have been better of her just to have a normal life

and work the nine to five and be able to see her every day and be a part of our family and have the normal family life? And so I have those thoughts, you know? And I'm like, okay, well, what we're chasing pull us apart, you know? And not in a bad way, but just in a way of days gone, you know? And so now I look back at it. I'm like, okay. And with Hayden, he had a, you know, talent for dirt bikes, chased it,

said, okay, bro, if you're in, I'm in. Let's do it. Let's freaking do it. And if you want to win, I'll help you, and we'll do it as good as you can be. We're going to do that, you know. And so, and that system has worked. And then with my youngest Hudson, he was more free spirit, funny, talkative, like, you know, more like, want to have fun all the time and a different personality.

And I was like, all right, cool. And then he wanted to race dirt bikes, want to do this, want to do that, kind of in and out of everything. And so I'm like, the one thing I know is dirt bikes. So I'm like, okay, dirt bikes, let's do this. And so we go down the path and he ends up having a bad crash, like a bad one. And I'm at a day practicing, you know, lands on his head and it shatters his thoracic spine, his upper spine, like four vertebrates, you know.

And usually he was the kid crashed. He's, oh, I'm hurt. I'm like, get up. You're fine. Let's go. You know. And this day, he was like, dude, my back, my back, my back, my back. And I'm like, oh, and I was right behind him when he fell.

It wasn't a big crash, but he landed on his head. And I'm like, dude, you're all right? You're all right. All right. Let's go. Let's get up. Let's get it. And he's like, no, no, no, no.

And I was like, all right. So we, you know, did medics, the whole thing, went to the hospital. And they went in there and they were like, his spine's crooked. They're like, and now it's a hematoma is pushing on his spinal cord. And I was like, no fucking way. And I was like, and then you started thinking, what I did? How old was this time? He was 12, I think.

And so I'm like, what the frick am I doing? You know, like, this is so stupid. Like, why am I pushing this freaking deal? You know, and then at that point, I kind of was like, you know what? Back off, you know, we got them through that. I mean, they wanted to put pins in his back and do this whole thing. And so I, you know, went to the doctors, you know, sports doctors, and they ended up putting them in a brace.

And they said, if this brace holds and does what it's supposed to do, then we won't do surgery. So we held off, held off, held off. And then, you know, my sports surgeon saw it after three months of the shell, the turtle shell. And they said, took it off. Say, okay, it looks good. You know, he's going to grow, he'll develop and this should be fine. Okay.

You know, it's not perfect, but, you know, it's no surgery. And I was like, okay, that's all I wanted to hear because pins in a kid's back is never a good story, right? And so that was kind of the moment I stepped back and go, man, what am I doing, dude? Like I'm like if you if you're half in half out, I'm all, dude, it's too gnarly of a sport, you know, to be half in half out. And let's go ride. If you want to ride for fun, let's go ride fun. Let's go ride fun. Let's go cruise around on a dirt bike, right? But as far as pushing you, pushing you to train and ride and do a man, let's go. And so anyway, that was a reality shock for, you know, reality for me that I was like, whoa, this was close. And so we said, okay, what's next? What do you want to do? He's like, I just want to, you know, like, you know, I like, you know, I like, I like,

I like, he likes, he's a lot of golf. I like, you know, it was fishing, like cooking, just things that are like, cool. Let's do it. I'm like, okay, I'm supportive of it. Let's do it. You know, I'm like, how can I only be supportive of things I like? Yeah. So that's the hard part because it's fun.

It's what we know. And anyhow, that's my polar opposite story of, you know, I don't know if I didn't, probably didn't answer your question, but that's kind of what I've been through. and I feel like after my third kid, I was kind of like, you know what, what do you want to do? Yeah. You know, what do you want?

Let's do it. And if we're going to do it, let's do it. Right. I think that's, yeah. I mean, I totally get that. I mean, it's, that's a tough one. I was always like, you know, I expected them to do good in school, but I was always like the measurable is physical.

Yeah. That's all that mattered. Yeah, yeah. Train, do this, do that. It's always sports. It's just physical. And then I was just like never mentioned school. So I'm like,

finally with my daughter, kind of like you, she was my last one. I'm like, you know what? Maybe I need to chill out. It's a girl too. So it's a little bit different than the boys

because I just pushed a boy so hard. But yeah, you just kind of, I had that realization too when my son joined the army went, he got deployed. And I'm like,

he had a good job. And I had told him that, I told him for so long that average was, a failure and now he's like okay well i got more to offer this world i'm gonna i'm gonna be a ranger in the army and then he gets deployed and i'm like what if something happens to him yeah it was me who said that he had it we need regular people doing regular jobs and it's like i i did i make him do this and what if something happens to him yeah yeah and so now i mean i totally get what you're

saying about your daughter because like truitt lives in uton he trains every day and has he's big goals. Tanner, who was a ranger, he lives right over here, not even like a couple blocks away. That's cool. We see them all the time. Yeah. Never see Truit. So it's like, it's like what you're saying with your daughter would have been better to have a regular job and just see them. Yeah. Yeah. It's, but. But then when you see like your kids or like, you know, my kids, if they're inspiring this next generation and kids look up to them and it gives other kids this opportunity to dream big and chase it, and that somehow helps society.

Yeah, for sure. Then that's good, too. I agree, yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's good to have the kids thriving and, yes, be in a position where they have good influence. I feel, yeah, I feel like my kids, like that is one thing. I do tell them. I'm like, you know, it's one of the reasons why we've continued to do our YouTube for so long.

It's a grind. It was like, hey, it's the influence, man. We're influencing people to hopefully follow what we stand for, you know, which we believe is the right thing. I know there's a lot of crap on the internet. And I feel like there's a lot of parents that come to me and just like, hey, dude, thanks for putting out, like, good PG content, dude, that we can watch.

I'm not worried about my kids watching it. We don't think, we know nothing weird's going to happen on it. And we dig that. I said, cool. So I feel like there is, like you're saying, there is a value when your kids have a good influence on on the next generation yeah it's a big deal to that i don't think people put enough credit on that and i think it's i think especially in this day and age we can all cry about like what is getting what the media does what get posted what what people

are you know pushing on on google or the apple or whatever you know it's like what are you doing what's your part what are you doing to combat it you know it's like you know you're complaining about it Put something out positive what you want to see then. Put out something that people might influence people that go, yeah, I like that. You know, like I just, I feel like that's still, there's still, the majority of America is good, good people. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. So they need some freaking role models, right?

Yeah, I think so. You know, and like, I know you get a lot of parenting type questions because you've run the gamut. you've been the crazy young wild guy and now you're the dad and trying to raise good kids and it's like I was having this conversation with my daughter too because as I was saying like with truitt training like this and is he missing that and I told her I said everybody pays a price what price do you want to pay is that is a price that you could have changed the world with your ability but you didn't or is the price that um and then you missed out on family time,

or is the price that you stayed with your family and then you didn't do this thing? Or usually as untapped potential. People could have been amazing, but they, for whatever reason, didn't believe in themselves or didn't have whatever so they didn't chase it and who knows what it could have turned into. But I said, you're going to pay a price no matter what.

What is it? What is that price going to be? Yeah. But nobody gets out with nothing without paying. something. Yeah, yeah. And it's just hard knowing what's the right decision sometimes. Yeah, it is. I mean, like I said, life's hard no matter what, you know, so you want it to be, I want it to be hard. I always say it because people, you know, resort life back to like, you know, your value or whatever. It's, you know, I say life's hard no matter what, dude, and you want to have a good life or a

tough life. You know, as far as like, it's always, it's all hard. It's hard to be rich. It's hard to be poor. It's hard to, you know. So I choose to want to have a good life and work hard and, yeah, be able to provide for my kids and give them the opportunities that I wish I had. And it's all hard, dude, you know. I also had to take risk when I was younger leaving Nebraska. I mean, I was going to go to college in Nebraska when I graduated at high school. My dad ended up being the superintendent of the school system in Nebraska.

So education was a big deal to him. What were you going to take? It was like, marketing and, you know, business stuff, you know, probably end up in some sales deal or something. I don't know. I just pictured myself, like, I was down, I always in, I grew up in Bellevue, Nebraska, a very small town.

I'd always kind of ride my bike downtown. Now there's these local bars where people would just end up at, you know, and I'm just like, man, I don't know, so want to do that. I just want to end up the guy at the bar hanging out, you know, going back and- telling high school stories. Telling high school stories, dude. I, like, damn, I just didn't, couldn't see myself doing that. Fortunately for me, dirt bikes was my avenue out that showed me like, hey, I traveled to the United States that way, got to meet all these kids from California, from Florida.

I'm like, man, these kids are cool. Like, I just want to be where they're at. Like, what they're doing, man. I go, that, that, I was always attracted to that growing up. There was a little skate shop in town, and I always would go hang out there and kind of look at the new stuff. And I remember it was like, you know, it was Tony Hawk and Palo Peralta, all that era. and I was big into skateboards and all that stuff. And I just didn't.

It felt like I just didn't belong in Nebraska. Nebraska was cornhusker football, you know. And I was like, that was just not my thing, you know, it's just fine. I just, anyway, my dirt bike was my avenue out. I took risk just scary, you know, leaving home at 18 with no money. You know, and a pickup truck on my dirt bike and drive them to California. And, I mean, it's, it was scary for sure. Who talked to you into that?

It was, I had a friend in California that. was like, hey, come stay with me. And it all started when I was about 14. I was racing. I started winning locally. And I knew it snowed in the winters, obviously, in Nebraska. So I knew to be a champion, I had to train year around. So my kids from California that I met at the local nationals,

or at the nationals at Florida Lins and the big amateur nationals, hey, come stay with us. And I said, okay, so I hitched the ride with this guy, Jeff Emmig. He was a champion back in the day. When he was younger, he was 16. in the back when the minotrucks were cool, lowered mini trucks. He came and picked me up and threw my dirt bike in the bag. I was like 14, 15, and he literally drove me to California.

I remember it was when Guns and Roses came out, Appetite for Destruction. We listened to that tape the whole way. And he dropped me off at the exit where my friend lives, and it was like Glenn Helen Motorcross Track Eggs, I'll never forget, with my bag and my dirt bike. And I know cell phones. And my buddy's dad came and picked me up, and he brought me to their house. And I was like, all right, go to high school.

And I went to transfer it because I had to go to school still. So I went to my first day of Cajon High, which is the gnarly's gang school in California, like Riverside High. I remember this little white kid coming in from Nebraska at the first day of school. It was mid-school year. And I come in, I'm like, bro, this is gnarly. And I was sitting there, and then all of a sudden these gang fights break out, dude. It was like, and I was like, this is crazy. Yes, probably 14, 15.

I think 9th or 10th grade or something. And anyhow, I remember, like, just so I was tripping out. I was like, dude, this is crazy. But it was such an experience. Imagine a kid, you know, I was growing up fast. Whole different world. Whole different world. And so, and we would ride every week.

After school, we'd go ride up in the hills. And I just thought it was the coolest thing because I'm like, at home is winter. I couldn't ride at all. So I was like working on my dirt bike. I just loved. I was so happy to be there. Yeah. I would just remember I couldn't, like, I was just like, couldn't believe I was there.

And your dad was good with you just moving to California, which is crazy. Like I would never let my kid do that, bro. 14 or 15? Like later. See you, dad. See ya. No a cell phone. That is nuts.

Yeah. Then how did you get money for gas even for riding your bike? So I had a credit card with like, and it had like 500 bucks or thousand bucks on it. And my dad was like, okay, you have to make money. So I always had to have little jobs. And in California, I actually was good enough to win Calsackey contingency money when I raced the local TransCal series or whatever. And it was like three or four hundred bucks a weekend.

And it was enough to like, live off. Yeah, fund you. Yeah. But I was like super low budget, dude. Like so. Low overhead. Low budget. But just enough to buy food.

Yeah. You know? And my buddies were cool. Like their parents were cool to like let me stay there. But that's amazing that at that age, you were providing for yourself essentially. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like if my bike broke, I had to figure it out.

Like, it wasn't like, someone wasn't fixing it for me. Like, I had to go to the local shop and buy a part, put it on. But I didn't care. I was like, see, I was so stoked just to be there. But how do you, that's always the challenge with a parent who had to grind it out and then the kids don't have to making them tough. Like making them, how do you, because you, that gave you an edge. Yeah.

Your edge is why you had the balls to do these fucking big tricks. and make this name for yourself. Without that edge, you'd be a marketing guy. Average guy. Average guy. Average loser. So they, yeah, I know. I feel like that, and there's something was in me too.

Like I just had a wild side in me that I was willing to like do, like take big risk to not just make money, but get attention. I was that kid that wanted to get attention, you know, like I'll backflip this jerk bike and, you know, this will be cool, right? Yeah. And anyhow, and I surrounded myself with guys like that that we, oh, man, it became, when we, when I, and I raised supercross and motorcross and I, you know, I never got a factory ride. I was like a fifth to 10th place guy, you know, where nowadays that is a factory ride. But back then there was only one factory ride per team.

It was very, very tough. And so anyhow, I just missed that mark. And so, you know, I ended up winning a supercross, but I kind of went, you know, FU to the sport and couldn't get the ride. so I went Rebel Kid and I ghost rode my bike over the one of the Super House Coast Road my bike over the finish. It was kind of like a big F you deal and it was almost like yeah I don't know. Like I looked back at it. It was pretty rebel and I mean no one's like no one's done anything like that to this day.

You know, so but either way that was kind of like me at my exit of the sport. Action sports was starting and I fortunately right place the right time. And I took, dude, went full steam ahead. I said, okay, it's my shot. I'm going to action sports. I'm taking over. We're the rebel guys and spikes and heavy metal. And Travis Pistrano was the good guy.

We were the bad guys. And we let's go. And it just took off. It was ESPN ate it up and it was badass. Yeah, I related a little bit to kind of, I don't know, I don't know if it's the same or not, but like with archery, there's target archery. And that's very like, did you win this tournament? How did you shoot first, second, third?

It's very, like, you don't even have to know anything to know who's good. Yeah. And then there's bow honey. And then it's, it's, to me, it reminds me of like the factory ride and then the freestyle. It's just like, you can't, how do you, how do you gauge whether you're good at freestyle? You know, there is no real measurable. Yeah. But it's, so that was kind of a risk, wasn't it?

Yeah, big risk. It was like kind of. It's safer to be just a factory guy, just do, and if you win, you make a name for yourself. Yeah. But. Yeah. And if you don't win, say you run fifth through tenth, you're still making enough money to,

to be the cool guy with the dirt bike in town and go to the track. And that's a whole other story I won't get into. But as far as like you have a passion, you love riding dirt bikes, you know you're not making enough money to retire on it. But you stay in it because you love it. And you don't really have anything else to do. You're like, I'm not qualified to do much. other. So I'm going to continue to ride this dirt bike at fifth to 10th place or 20th place.

Yeah. And continue to just make enough just to get by. And then when I'm 30, I don't know what I'm going to do. Right. And I didn't want to do that. I was kind of like, I knew I wasn't going to factor ride. I wanted to be the man. I wanted to make money. I want to be successful. And that's when I said, I'm, all right, I'm walking away from racing, which was a big move for me, because my dad put a lot of time into that. And I felt bad. Like, my dad was like, you're not going to race anymore. And it was right after you won the super cross. I won the super cross. And then I did like another season, but what I, I, I felt like I should have got a factory ride that year. You know, I was good enough to get a ride. And I didn't get it that next year. And I just

was kind of like that. I'm not getting a ride. Why do you think you didn't get it? Just 100% was not, it was my attitude, you know, I just was like I didn't. But you, you had a chip on your shoulder. I'm sure you said, no, they're fucking me. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah. You didn't take, you didn't say, oh, it's me for being, I'm kind of too crazy. I wasn't that smart. No, no, yeah. But I had to learn my lesson. I just know how young men are, and that's just how it works. It's never your fault. Yeah.

And I live that life for a long time. If I wanted to get a factory ride, I should have played the game. I should have played the corporate game. I should have went to the guys who mattered that called the show. Hey, what's up, buddy? I'm Brian Deegan. Nice to meet you. I'm working hard.

Can you give me a shot? You know? Instead, I was like, fuck you guys, right? You guys, I'm winning. Like, I've won. Like, why are you not giving me a ride? Yeah. You know, and that was not the right attitude.

I don't care what, I mean, you gotta be a bad, and the fucker to play that game. Yeah, you gotta be like, you can't just be like barely. Barely hang on. I should have got this or maybe not, because they're gonna say no. No, I want the guy who's gonna listen and be cool and respectful.

But you know, it's, you know, do you know who J.B. Mooney is, a bull rider? Yeah. So he says something like there's, there's bull riders who just want to be known as a bull rider. And then there's guys who want to be, the best. Yeah.

You know, so it reminds me of like, those, there's some guys who just like, it's just good enough, just, you know, being the motocross guy. Yeah,

showing up to races, having the bike. But they're going to be like the, you know, not really make the, I don't know, the podium, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know. So, I mean, there are people who, they're okay with that, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And there's still, you still get the benefits from that. There's still like you're, you're still, like I say, you're still on that, that on the, on the side of the fence where the action is.

Yeah. Not the fan side of the fence. You're on the other side of the fence, right? You're out there. You're still in the scene and you still get the little benefits of that. But I never wanted to do that. I always wanted to make the most of it and be like, okay. Like, how do we, if it's TV, I want to be the most there.

If it's, you know, action sports, we want to be the most there. And unfortunately, action sports to be the man, you get to take vigorous, you know. And that was the game. And so, you know, we did. you know, Travis was badass. You know, Pastrana just was on another level, you know?

And so he, I mean, he helped the sport a ton. And he helped, like, guess, you know, car racing,

get into X games, which helped me transition out of freestyle motocross because there came a point when he did that double backflip that night, I was standing there watching.

I was like, I was in that, in that event against him, and I was like, there's no fucking way I'm doing that. I was just like, bro. And I told him,

I was like, damn. I remember talking to him back in the locker. I'm like you're gonna do a double backflip dude I go that's freaking gnarly dude and he's like yeah I think I'm good I think I got it and I think he got it I'm like he knew he had it like he was just that gnarly you know and and he was like 10 years old younger than me you know so anyway it was kind of that moment where I was probably 30s you know young 30 years so I was like you know I've survived it this long and car racing was coming and had some other opportunities and it's parlayed out of it you know and fortunately I was able to carry my small out of that into car racing, which is a whole other story, but there's another difficult move, but it had to go work my ass off, figure it out, figure out how to win, never race the car in my life, you know, figured out within a year it was winning championships. But that was

hard work and studying and studying the sport. You know, I love that part. I love studying things and figuring it out. I love figuring out how to freaking win things that I haven't done before. Travis was the king of that. He, man, that dude wanted so many things. And he walked away from racing that he was a young kid which was unheard of like if you got a factory ride and you're winning championships that's all you do yeah for if you were like hey no I'm good I'm gonna go do freestyle over here people are like what like that'd be like Hayden going hey later I'm gonna go hit ramps people like right huh yeah you know like so he's a dude he's a rebel dude like so anyway he paved the way he wasn't known necessarily as a rebel like you were no he was more giddy tissue guy like clean cut like but

He was like as far as like going against the grain and paving the way, he was a trailblazing dude, you know? Did his persona being the goody two shoe guy, did that push you to be like the bad guy even more? Yeah, I'd say. To be like even crazier? Yeah, I'd say he, we were polar opposites as far as like our personalities and our images at least.

Yeah. When we got on dirt bikes, we were pretty much, you know, we're the same wavelengths, right? Like we thought we were both competitors there. But yeah, he was the goody guy. And we were like, okay, yeah, we were turned up the bad boy thing times 10. Right. So it was totally opposites, you know.

And then eventually he got older and he got into his wild times and this, that. And it was like, yeah, cool. Whatever, dude. You know, everyone goes through those moments and it's all good. Was there a, wasn't there like a dirt, demons or what? Yeah, crusty demons of dirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what was that? That was the original freestyle motocross movies.

That's what helped start the action sport movement of freestyle motorcars. So they were big into snowboarding. So snowboarding had his competition guys and then the free ride guys that went out in just the, you know, free ride in the mountains and the powder and they do videos. And these dudes were wild dudes. So they showed their partying along with their snowboarding in the backcountry. and then they do skits, these funny-ass skits. And we never even, like, heard of that, right? Yeah.

They were doing these acting parts. Okay. You know, nowadays, the skits and the internet are, like, if it ain't real, it's cheesy, right? But back then it was freaking funny. Like, we're like, dude, these guys were reenacting, like, like, 007 and doing these skits, and we just thought it was the coolest thing.

So, anyway, those guys who edited the snowboarding thing came into freestyle motocross when it first started, And they took that formula of storytelling of the behind the scenes into freestyle motorcars. It helped like the sport. I mean, it was probably the biggest movement for freestyle motocross. There's the same guys that did the snowboard stuff?

Yeah, same guys. John and Dana, John and Dana from Fleschwin films, they were the ones who created Krusty Demons. And Krusty Demons won, which I had a small part in, that's when I was still racing dirt bikes, was like it blew up.

Like, the motocross industry like went up like said like 20 30 percent dirt bike sales just from those movies because people were buying dirt bikes to go ride for fun they weren't racing them they were just going to ride them for fun and i was like whoa this is pretty cool yeah right it's like people just going okay i don't care about the racing i'm just going to go free ride and it was a cool it was a massive era dude like massive like you know where everyone was running the flat bill had yeah black socks pulled up long dicky shorts a white feeders like that whole look and move you know i feel like we were just like a big part of that and yeah it's cool i mean that's a cool era

and then that went into metal militia yeah so that and that was when freestyle motorcross was starting we had the first freestyle park at our um our buddy's house is uh buddy larry had a bunch of land so he we built this or they built a massive freestyle park it was like a all dirt you know big john it looked like it looked like a big bmx park but like like a high hundred times bigger. And so that's where it started. And then they basically said, hey, X-Games, check this out.

And it was actually a guy, Mickey Diamond, an X-Racer, who created all this stuff. And brought it to X-Games, and they showed them. They said, yeah, let's make this an event.

And that's kind of how it kicked off. And Krusty was around a few years before freestyle ever went to X-Games. You know, it helped birth the sport. But X-Gans is what legitimized it into a money-maker. Right.

You know, that's what made it the corporate. deal and and you saw did you see that immediately like that was a huge opportunity if you could get to x games oh it was huge yeah because i i was still racing like kind of just getting almost like kind of out of racing uh 98 99 and that's when x games started was 99 so i was still racing like a little bit but doing freestyle and i was doing these videos and the crusty demons motor with triple X and I was getting paid by companies to do them like at any shoes was paying me a salary monthly just to do free ride videos and that was unheard of and so I started getting paid I was you know

with Volcom when it just started me and Mike Metzger one of the guys who helped so at the sport and um we were wearing Vulcum clothes riding dirt bikes instead of gear and uh so that I just remember and black flies shades were like big back then and a lot of these companies that were like edgy like built on a lot of something. He's come. He's built on drug money. It was like an edgy time, you know, and everyone was like wild parties and the pimping hoe parties and all that, like this, all the shit that was kicking off, right?

What's the pimping hoe parties? You never heard of that? No, I haven't. What is it? So that was in like Huntington Beach where, like, they would have these big parties and guys would dress up as pimps and the girls had come and, man, these strippers, you know?

Yeah. They come to these, you know, clubs and these would be like, dude, hundreds and hundreds of people. And then, you know, dance club, clubs, and they put on these parties. Okay. And it was basically action sport guys and snowboard and all the action sports scene. And back when it was pretty loose, you know. I'm pretty chill, guys.

Yeah, yeah, right. But no, there was the company supporting that, which is crazy. So you had companies that were like, they're throwing these parties. And so if you were these athletes, like, for these ride for these top companies, you're the shit, right? And you go to these events and it was, I mean, it was like what you saw in. the movies and I was this kid from Nebraska. But I'd come out like pro dirt bike in Nebraska. You're like, yeah, cool, dude.

Like you pro dirt bike in SoCal? Okay, now we're getting it's done, right? Yeah. So anyhow, I mean, it was definitely a cool era to live in, you know, as far as the 90s and stuff. But yeah, that only lasted so long. But we were able to, action sports was able to create its own vibe when it started. We were like, okay, we're going to all have fun.

You know, all this kind of fast-paced scene. Corporate money was there. They did it our way. There was big companies that were paying big money that were the party companies, that were edgy companies. And those over time got weeded out. But at the time, it was like what company could I ride for that was going to pay me a bunch of money but had a cool image. Yeah. And it was so image driven back then.

You're like, who had the coolest athletes? That was it. Who had the coolest team, you know? And that was just the vibe. back then with all the companies. And it's like, it was Vulcum, Blackflies, and, you know, you had Etney's shoes

that were just like, certain brands were just like, the shit, if you had those brands. Yeah. You know, DC, like, there was just, it was just a time, you know, an era that, that was so image-driven.

Yeah. So, yeah. Probably, probably fun for you at that time. It was fun, yeah. And like said, being a kid from Nebraska, I'm like, I ate it up, dude. I was like, this is like shit I saw in the movies. Yeah, sounds nuts.

Yeah. Well, in the, okay, so that, I guess that got phased out as you got older, you didn't want to start taking the risk, so then you got into, or I mean, the risk, all of a sudden there's a risk reward thing. Like, is this worth it? This big risk is, now you start in a family, things like that. So then you got into the racing, car racing, right? Yeah, so, you know, the, yeah, it definitely went from racing dirt bikes, supercross,

motorcross into action sports, freestyle motocross, and that era lasted from like 97, 99 X games to about 2009 was my run. And as, you know, Travis double backflips, sport was evolving younger guys coming in, foam pits, all the stuff, the sport was going quick. Yeah. And I'm like, so there's come a point as any man does in sport, you're like, okay, I'm kind of becoming the relic here and I don't want to take the risk. I started getting to the point where I was dropping in for X games.

Like, you know, they're like, okay, go. You're live, TV, boom, getting ready to drop in down the ramp and hit the ramp. And I was nervous. I was, again, the point of like, dude, I don't want to, like, I'm getting scared. Yeah. And I'm like, you used to be like, I can't wait, you know, I freaking can't. I'm going to send it. I'm going to freaking.

If I crash, so what? I don't care. I'm just like, the medics are there. I'm good. Like, and then I got to the point where I'm like, man, I don't want to crash. You know, like, I've been through so many injuries, so many broken bones, so much surgery. And I thought, okay, dude, I got to find something else. Right.

by night before the event nervous and like yeah because just fine is a 50 50 the next day if you're getting older going to go in older you're mortal yeah yeah the key is like I think you're at your best when you think you're immortal yeah I can't be hurt yeah I can be hurt maybe I'll be fine yeah but yeah when you know that maybe I won't be okay yeah that changes yeah so I so then I'm like what can I carry on with all this relationships and partnerships I have where can I go and that was car racing. I'm like, because you're in a roll cage and it is much safer. And so fortunately at the time I had, I was with Rockstar at the time and they said, hey, why don't you come over and check out this truck racing? So they took me to the short course racing and showed me this truck racing with the

Ladooks and which is a family that race and they were with Rockstar and I went and watched my, dude, this is like mortar cross and a race truck with a roll cage. I'm like, it's pretty cool. Yeah. So they said, all right, we'll help you. They put me in a race truck. I got a race. I got smoked. And I'm like, fricked, dude, I'm like, fucking sucking this thing. And then I'm like, you know what, though? This is my avenue out of freestyle. Like, this is kind of almost a sink or swim. Like, if you're going to keep staying freestyle, for sure, you just can't.

Who knows when the next, you know, when the, could be one more day. Yeah. So got into car racing. I said, okay, I went and bought an old junkie race truck and said, I'm going to practice every day. I'm going to figure out how to race these things. And I studied the best. And so I went in.

into that and within a season I was like 15th, 10th, eight, six, you know, each race and I finally got on the podium. And I'm like, okay, then I started winning races and then I got a good, good equipment, proved who I was. Rockstar took a chance on me.

And then I started getting sponsors to pay for me. I had to come out of pocket the first few years quite a bit. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to invest in myself because I know I'm going to believe in myself and I invested and it worked. And I boom, started getting endorsement deals, you know, millions of dollars coming in

for truck racing. And I mean, I was at the pinnacle of off-road racing. You know, I was racing Pro 2, Pro 4, which is 4-wheel-drive, 2-wheel-drive, 1,000 horsepower engines, had like 5 of them in my shop, these engines at like 70 grand of engine. Like, we were building race trucks out of my shop. I had semi-trucks and all these employees. And it was like, it was gnarly.

It was intense. And we won a lot of championships. I had a lot of fun. And that way, and my daughter was able to come up and learn they had a kids race during the pro racing in the morning. So I put my daughter in the kids' kids class, and I was able to groom her into car racing. And actually, Hayden and Hudson both race go-carts.

It raised carting. I thought that's what they were going to do. I go, I don't want to race dirt bikes, too. It's gnarly. So we try to put them in car racing, and eventually they veered into dirt bikes, you know, but a lot of people don't know that story. But so I did the car racing for almost 10 years of off-road

and was able to keep my sponsors and all my endorsement. deals, X games brought in a rally car. So I got to race rally cars at X games and still be at, I was still at X games, which is cool. And thanks to Pristrana. He's the one he brought it in. And I end up winning X Games gold in a rally car in L.A., and I think 2011 or something. And I mean, which, again, some of the best rally car drivers, you know, which was freaking hard, dude.

There's no better driver than a rally car drivers. They're the shit. Like, there's no better drivers. So I, you know, did that, truck racing, car racing. And about the point when that started winding down, you know, I had my own off-road tires, deacon tires. We had all these licensing deals with all these car products. And, man, I just felt like we kicked ass.

Like, we go to Seema every year Seema Car Show and get all these sponsorships, had all these partnerships. And I mean, just what I could talk about in marketing and business and licensing is crazy. Like, I mean, any contracts I've read, like how many con deals I've done. And you don't see that part of it, you know? And that, if I could say, my forte in business would be marketing and licensing. Like, I've just done so much of it.

Yeah. And it's trial and error. I feel like I tell my kids, don't take advice from anyone that hasn't been there and done it. Yeah. I was going to say, who, like, who has done what you've done? Is anybody? I'd say, you know, the guys I think of is, oh, man, guys that have made money from the sports that I've been in is probably only really, Pristrana is the only one other business guy that has a lot of business going on, you know,

with his nitro circus and he's part. When I say business, I mean, creating jobs for your friends and other people in your community, you know, that's business, you know. And so, and I was able to do that with metal militia. I was able to create jobs and opportunity and pay the riders. And it created business. And I give credit to Travis for doing that, but I look at providing for more people than just himself. But, there was probably probably count the guys on one hand that have made that have parlayed out of the sport yeah i don't know people just seem to get stuck in that rut and ride it till the wheels fall off and then where to then it's done yeah i see that happen so much and that could be a whole other

talk of subject but i'm yeah yeah it's like a negative subject i don't want to touch on i i i totally like admire your journey and it's like it's what i've tried to do i like hiring people I want to sponsor athletes. You know, there's this track athlete. I'm, you know, working on a sponsorship for. So same thing. I want to do it. And it's like, it's not normal because people normally in my industry are,

if you can get a few pro contracts, just a little bit of money. It's like, oh, my God, I'm, you know, there's not really a professional bow hunter. But if you're sponsored, that's like being a factory writer, you know what I mean? And then if you ever had like you're a bow with your name on it, you know, that's like, It doesn't get any better. Yeah, so you gotta break some barriers there. Yeah, so it's tough, but that next level, like what you're talking about with that,

being able to provide and like the big vision and making it happen. Yeah, I love that about your journey because you came up, that is your stories. I mean, has there a bit of a movie on your story? So they did a documentary. But it was years ago, right? Years ago.

Yeah, it's called Bloodline. And it was done by Paul Tobli, who did he's done a lot of documentaries he's good at documentaries he did one called unchained the story of freestyle motocross it's just a great i love documentaries me too you know i i prefer to watch those over everything i've watched every documentary in f1 and car racing i love it but i feel like we have chapters the last chapter was when i think haley was probably around 17 18 so the last documentary we did was probably five years ago or so i think it's probably time for an updated one right yeah yeah yeah be cool yeah so i tell people

if you really want to understand who we are, you can watch that documentary bloodline. It's on YouTube or whatever. And it really tells our story of who we are, up until like four or five years ago. But yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, it's a small town kid's story. But like to me, what I see now,

so maybe like in the last five years, so if that was stopped five years short, what I see is like, I don't know if you'd say this, but are you bigger than the sport your name what sport motorcross um i mean i would say because we because i'm in many different sports i would say yeah because i'm into car racing you know uh in the motorcross supercross freestyle motocross you know uh off-road trucks rally cars uh you know it's i would

think you know i have an audience outside of motorcross yeah and that's when i think of right yeah bigger than the sport and you can see that in a negative way no but i i feel like have i reached outside of the sport of the sport of motocross yeah yes like so how do you navigate your deals when when you're arguably maybe people maybe the sport would say no we call the shots you're just personality whatever but how do you navigate deals when you have that much power yeah i'd say the The deals, like I try to navigate deals around what I'm doing. I say, hey, we are a family that races. You know, right now I'm focused on my kids racing and supporting them.

I still race myself. I still race Can Am's and go race King of the Hammers, which is a very tough, brutal race to the rocks in California. And I still race off road. I'll go to Crandon this year and race. It's the biggest race of the year in short course. getting in like a, you know, six, seven hundred horsepower race truck and go 100 miles per hour 20 deep through the first turn with 20 other trucks.

You know, it's, you get your heart racing. So I'll still do that stuff because I still have, you know, endorsement deals with car products and manufacturers and all this stuff. So I touch on that, but a lot of people know, like, my story is a family story at this point with YouTube. And so I feel like the partnerships have to be meant, with that. If I'm trying to do a partnership, I'm like,

and you want me to go do something off the wall that's not on what we're doing, everything I partner with now, it goes with our brand and where we're headed. We don't script what we do. We just film what we do naturally and show people. Like, hey, this is what we do at the races. This was our race weekend.

These are the people we met. This is the funny stuff we saw. And we show people that, and the sponsor's like, hey, we like, we'd like that story so you know wear our hat wear our shirt maybe plug our product in your video but like me standing there and going hey buy this product like you know just like bro i'm not doing that yeah and i feel like i feel like even bad like tagging things that are like hey buy the sale right now like and i and i get companies that want you to do that because like hey

but i'm like if you can save my my audience money on a product cool let's do it But if it's, you know, salesy, pitchy, I try to, you know what I'm saying. I don't tag. I don't tag any of my sponsors. I'm like, if people want to know what I use, I mean, they know. Yeah, yeah. They see what I'm using. So it's like I'm, I know there's other people in my industry who tag, like even

it has nothing to do with what they're doing, but it's a sponsor. They tag it. And I just think it loses its value. Yeah. You know, so I'm like, no, they'll. They'll figure it out. But it's, for me, it's been, you know, I mean, like the industry in the industry gets so used to like, this is what we do. This is a formula that works.

Like, if I have a sponsor, they say, well, there's these 3D shoots where like what we did today. Yeah. And there's these big 3D shoots where the whole everybody's at. And I'm like, they say, we want you to go to this shoot. And I go, all those people already know me and either like me or hate me. why don't I go to Washugel and shoot bows in front of a whole new crowd? And just convincing them that, oh, that's a good idea because it's a new market. That is hard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they're so used to the, no, no, no, this is what, this is a formula that works. This is what we've always done. Yeah, yeah. And that, like, the magazine and the TV contracts, those all were, they did it for so long. It's hard to get out of that. That's why I was wondering, like, with you, you know, with your name, it's like when you're bigger than the sport how does a sport deal with you and like dealing or

how do you navigate you know your business dealings or your partnerships i feel like you i get what you're saying when i say and i will i guess make it clear like when i say our web goes out further than the sport yeah so our tentacles go much further than just motorcross yeah but obviously that's what people we're focused on right now so that's yeah for the most attention goes there's a ceiling on, like I, me and the guys that help manage, guys that I work with that help manage us, we've been with forever. We grew up in the same town.

They're just buddies and I would trust them. They, you know, trust us a good relationship. But my point is there's a ceiling, you know, like there's a ceiling in your, you know, I'm sure there's a ceiling in your sports. There's a ceiling in motocross. There's only so much that the companies are going to pay. Right.

You know what I'm saying? So you're not going to get the multi, multi-million dollar deal. out of some motocross company that, you know, only going to pay so much. So that's up to you and your sponsors and your marketing machine to reach out. Dude, I send so many DMs to companies that I wanted like, I'm like, hey, what's up, dude?

I'm so-and-so. Like, we pitch. Like, we work it, you know what I'm saying? Why not? There's windows, right? And we have a value, so let's get it out there. And most people are like, hey, I didn't think of that. You guys have a cool story.

Yeah, let's talk. And I love it. I love that part of it. Let's get on the phone. I love the negotiations and talking. It's cool. I'll enjoy that part. It's exciting.

It's like what I, so I'm curious on your opinion on this. So a lot of times you're with a sponsor for a long time, like say 20 years. And they kind of take the relationship for granted a little bit. Maybe another sponsor comes in and says, hey, what if we paid you this?

Would you come over? And it's double. what the guy that the outfit you've been with forever would pay yeah so then that's happened and uh man that that that's it would get me into a long story but long story short i was with a monster it was hanson's energy first i was you know friends with mark hall the guy who created it uh we were test testing monster before it even started we were doing taste testing in his office and logo drawings i had the first monster logo on my dirt bike for X games printed off a printer. Like, so I was there from the start, right?

So me and my buddies were blowing up, the militia thing with X games, and so be no fear came to us like, name your price. And we're like, shit, we're young. We're like, yeah, bro, six figure contracts. We're like, no way, you know. And I went back to Monster. I'm like, hey, let's do the Monster Militia. Let's get the whole crew and this will be cool.

And they were listening. They thought, yeah, we're just not ready for that. Like we don't have budget to get all your guys. And I'm like, young, dude, look at No Fear. I'm like, bro, they're going to pay us those that much money. And so we left. And we went into No Fear. And we had a good run.

You know, they did all No Fear gear. The crew look cool. We had, you know, good run with merch. And then the checks quit coming. The checks started bouncing. I went down to the office. I'm like, what the hell, dude? You need to pay us.

Like, you know. And it freaking crumbled. Yeah. And what a freaking reality check, dude. And then at that point, we had a lot of values. So Rockstar jumped on us, boom. We had Rockstar militia. We helped them a lot.

They helped us a lot. It blew up. And we ran that kind of Rebel Rockstar thing for many years. And they get, dude, they supported us big time. But there came a point where they started trying to sell the Pepsi or trying to sell their company and things started getting little sideways. And I'm like kind of going, okay, what's happening here? And the good thing is I always keep relationships.

Like I never never burn the bridge. And I learned that from a young age when I did burn bridges. You know, like, God taught me, don't do that. And so if I can give you any advice, don't burn the bridges as much as you want to, much as you want to freaking, you know, like get them. And you just don't. Because, you know what? I was able to talk back to Monster my dude and Mark and say, hey, dude, there's an opening right now. You know, Rockstar is kind of calling my bluff right now saying, well, if you don't take this deal, you ain't getting shit, you know?

And I'm like, I have a window right now. I can go do another deal right now. There's a gap. And they said, all right there. Boom, sent a contract that day over it. And I was like, damn, all right, here we go. And I went to the rock star. I walked back in and said, guys, I got another deal.

And they're like, they couldn't, you know, couldn't really believe it. They're like, okay, that was quick. And why did that deal happen? It happened because of a relationship I kept. Yeah. And I said, hey, Mark, when I left, I said, hey, they're going to pay us, this much of money. We're young guys having fun.

He said, dude, take the money then. He's like, I'm not mad. I said, thank you for everything you've done. I said,

thank you. But that's rare. Because, you know, even companies have egos. Yes, that's rare. You're right.

You're right. That's a kind of dream scenario. But they end up taking me back, but it taught me, it depends what the company is, right? If a company is going to keep you at a certain number forever

and you're worth more, and you're worth more and worth more, and if there's another company coming in that has bigger visions, you know they're going to be around for the long haul, hey, that's business, dude. You know what I'm saying? It just, it is.

And the company, you, if you've come in like Monster did to me, they said, hey, dude, that's a good offer, dude, take it. That's a lot of money. And that's what good sponsors do. Right. You know what I'm saying? And I've had that happen multiple times where companies are like, bro, we cannot match that.

That is freaking good. Like, you should take that. Yeah. And you kind of feel like, oh, well, fuck you, dude. Like, you don't want, really? you don't want to pay this? It's a weird. It is weird.

But it's a respectful thing. They have them going, you know what? You have good value. Get your value. You know, and most companies aren't like, hey, we'll be here when you come back. Nah, it doesn't always happen. Yeah. And then here's what the problem I have is companies, they're quick to say, hey, budget cuts.

We've got to cut you back. They're not quick to say, you know what? You've been kicking so much ass. We want to up your contract. Yeah. Why is it never, why is it like that? Why can't they recognize value before you want to go shop and say, you know what, fuck these guys.

I'm kicking ass. Yeah, yeah. I deserve more. So the way that I've done that is with companies like, hey, so-and-so is paying me this. I feel like we're doing really good right now. We're going to go on this film trip or we're going to do this project. And this project, man, I could use,

I could really use an extra $100 grand or a couple hundred grand, whatever. Like, like, call them, hey, man, I got this project in line where we really want to do this thing. Can you support it? Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. We'll cut you a check for that.

You guys are kicking ass. Boom. It's not like, hey, pay me more. It's like, I'm going to provide you this thing. That's pretty cool. It's going to a shit ton of views. It may cost us 25 grand, but I'm going to charge you 50. And you guys know that, right?

Because that's going to, you're going to put it to the board. But here's a line item you use for marketing. Yes. Yes. Go get this out of the budget that's already there. Right. And where everyone's checking their boxes, everyone's happy, and let's go. And that's the way we've been able to grow deals.

You know, especially with social media now, like, hey, I got this idea. We want to do this one-off, you know. I got this trip we're going on. We're going to cover it. You know, so-and-so is going to be there. We're all going to share the post. That's the way that I've been able to get more money, you know. Yeah.

You got your personal sponsorships and you got your film projects and you got your whatever else. Yeah, nowadays, you know, you get podcast. You got, you got, you know, like, coming out and just doing special events you know holidays like there's so many reasons to do one-off cool things you know like releases of new products uh there's so many things you can use and you have to because with social media you have to keep up fresh yeah you can you can have your anchor items but there has to be other stuff too yeah yeah um yeah god that would that reminded me oh here's a what so do you don't do a podcast i used to do a podcast yeah so we're

We were talking about this because we kind of fell behind, but we'd been doing like a shit talkers weekly. Yeah. And like if you did, you know, after the race weekend, yeah. Like a, just like behind, like what happened, that would blow up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'd be kind of like the shit talkers weekly.

You're saying it would be shit talkers weekly like telling, telling the behind the scenes or combating the shit talkers. I don't know. It could be anything. We do it. We talk about all sorts of. crazy stuff. But people like, they, you know, I have the guests on, I have outliers. Like, this is going to be a huge podcast. But people say, we also love shit talkers weekly.

Okay. You know what I mean? So you can have, it's just different. Because when you're with the guest, you're more, it's just more structured. Yeah. I'm asking you questions about you, but when you're just bullshitting, it's just different. Yeah, yeah. So sometimes people listen to podcast because they want to hear what you have to say sometimes you just want to turn it on and go on a run and just not have to think too much just kind of laugh yeah yeah i agree and that's i feel there's oh dude trust me i have so many ideas go through my head all the time and with like after the race weekend we could do the funniest like like narrate our weekend like hayden's whole maybe his whole side of the weekend what he thought right because he had some close calls this weekend like

colliding in the air with all the riders. In his mind, he has his side of like, hey, this is what I was thinking in the air. And this stuff, people are never going to get to hear. People love that, dude. Yeah, yeah. And I agree. There's so many sides that, so many things that we see. That's why I did a post on my Instagram today that kind of showed some of the behind-the-scenes stuff.

Like, we get a lot of fans that come over. And a lot of little kids who, like, this one little girl came over this week and drew a picture of Hayden and had, I love Hayden shirt like she made. and I'm like, she's, you know, in the crowd. They only give the riders 20 minutes a weekend to sign. It's, dude, the lines, thousand people around the motor, around the coach. Like, only about 100 people actually get something. And so I feel bad, you know, we all feel bad.

But like I tell the fans, we are there for first and foremost to win this race, right? Yeah. You know, and there's only one guy going to do that, you know, and we want to be that guy. So, but we respect the, you know, the crowd we've built. And so, like I said, there was this girl, drew this pictures, probably six, seven years old. I'm like, oh, man. Like, Hayden's inside studying tape, eating lunch.

And we've kind of made a pack. Like, when he's locked in, focusing and working on stuff, we just don't, like, let him do his thing, right? You know, let him focus. And I said, oh, this kid, I, all right, grab the girls, let's go, you know, walked her into the holler. And she gave Hayden her picture. And you could tell she was nervous, like, you know,

fixing her hair or clothes. And Hayden's like, hey, what's up, you know, let me sign it. Thanks for doing that. and signs her hat and her picture and she, and her mom, like, her mom's crying in tears, you know. And I'm like, dang, okay.

And I was like, people don't see that. Right. Yeah, and so I, and I posted that, and I said, this is stuff that happens during the races, like people don't see, you know? And the media is good at posting the bad, gnarly stuff, the funny, goofy stuff he says online, just because it gets views.

Yeah. Okay. And I'd say the media is media vultures, right? That's just what they do. and it is what it is like like like it or hate it whatever so um that's why we tell our side of the story through social but like i agree with what you say there's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that people aren't seen and i feel like that is something that i would like to start pushing out more and more because right now we push out a lot of content but it's basically like uh it's racing

yeah the competition i don't know it's kind of the basic yeah it's uh i just know um even like having uh Garrett and Eli out there shooting the bows. People just don't, they never see that side of, they don't see those guys high-fiving each other because of a bow shot. You know what I mean? So the crowd was just like, this is amazing. You know, they saw these people like be human. Human, yeah.

And yeah, it's just, I don't know. I was curious about that. Well, so I'm going to switch gears a little bit because I was wondering about this as, as, you know, you being a parent. But it is a dangerous sport. It's like, isn't there like kids die every year doing this? Yeah. What, how do you?

Yeah. How do you think about that? Yeah, especially recently, you know, our sport. Are they getting faster, more aggressive? Every, more gnarly tracks. What's going on? Yeah, the sport, the sport has always been dangerous, right? There's always been deaths in our sport.

It's always been, like, the thing about this sport is, you know, you break, bones frequently and it's like oh so-and-so broke a femur today oh yeah it sucks how many months two three months he'll be out and imagine if that like when a guy breaks a leg in the ufc it's like everywhere like it's a huge deal right like highlight clips over and over motorcross is like oh no big deal that is it gets annoying to me right and and i'm like man it's the sport is so gnarly and these guys push so hard on the weekends and during the week that people don't see and uh so yeah that that's that Dude, I'm so nervous. You know, I watching my kid, like, every weekend.

Mainly nervous on the start when they take off because that's so crazy. 40 guys going through the first turn hauling ass fighting for a little piece of real estate. And, man, the whole day, I'm just like, dude, the whole day I'm so nervous. I know I'm watching that time. I'm watching the time even as just a spectator. And, like, every minute. Yeah. It's risky.

Yeah, every second. Yeah, every second. You never know. Because also it was like, even if you're the greatest writer out there, you're out there with a bunch of other writers. And when you start lapping people, it seemed like that would get pretty intense. Yes. And that's, you know, Hayden was racing a year ago and a guy, a lap rider who were very dangerous,

a lap rider fell on a landing. And he comes around, he comes down the hill. I'm like, no way. I was in the tower watching. I wanted to tell him, like, dude, don't hit the jump, don't hit the jump. And I watched it all go down. He had like five seconds before he. jumped he come down the hill turns burrow hits this big jump and the rider's bike's on the landing he

freaking lands right on it boom flips in the air lands right on his back fortunately he's tough and gets up runs back to the bike i'm like no freaking way dude yeah and i'm like how do we fix this and i'm like bro i've been racing cars for a long time we would never race without communication without radios yeah so they don't have do the riders not have anything nothing yeah and nothing and i'm like They, calms exist. We use them for coaching during the week at times.

Yeah. I, like, I've talked to the AMA. I've talked to the series. I'm like, guys, please get calms on these guys. I go,

it is a safety concern. Yeah. And I get a lot of guys like, I don't want people talking to me. Okay, cool. Then choose not to run your calm, dude. You don't have to.

And maybe the comm's only for the, the windade, pit board area, when you go by and down that straight away, maybe that's the only time your mechanic can talk to you. You know, you can't talk back to him.

Who knows? Maybe there's regular. regulations at first. But there should be a point where so-and-so's down on the triple, don't jump the triple, like obviously quicker than that. Hey, don't jump, you know, where I feel like if I had a calm with Hayden, when he's coming down at hill, all of it, it says, Hayden, don't jump. Yeah. And that's all you know. And we would know before, hey, these are our code words. And when I say, don't jump, it's because something, something bad's on the other side. So trust me, just roll it and go. And I just, it's a safety thing. And I, I,

and I would love if they would introduce it. But anyhow, my goal is, like I said, you always try to limit the risk, but to you race in a dirt bike, the bikes are getting faster and faster. 250 now has 50 some horsepower at 250, which when I grew up racing, you'd go from 80cc to 125 cc.

A 125 cc had like 35 horsepower. And that's where you'd learn, and then you'd go to a 125 pro, and then 250 pro was like the 450 class. And then now it's sweet. to these two 502 strokes that are super fast. Kids are getting off mini bikes and going straight to these 250Fs that are like crazy fast.

And you would never do that back in the day. It's double the power than the bikes we had to learn on big bikes. And dude, with like Carmichael, we've had these discussions. I said with speed comes more danger. Yeah. That's it. Faster bikes, more danger. It is what it is.

And so how do you limit that? How do you protect that? I just feel like the OEM should have had a discussion with the riders. and the OEM should have been like, hey, how fast do we need to make these dirt bikes? You know, like, they don't need to be that fast. The 450s are too fast, way too fast. But anyway, there's good racing. You get up good racing without that speed, I feel.

But, you know, that's my opinion on it. Yeah, because I thought I heard, like, there was a kid that died about maybe a month ago, but didn't people land on them? Yeah, so from what I understand, it was a kid, actually my son knew, same age. I think around 15, young prodigy fast kid, you know, crashes. And it sounds like he got hit from another dirt bike, went into him, and ended up, you know, instantly killing him. And I don't know if there's any fixing that.

You know, it sounds like it happened pretty fast. I don't know the exact story. So it's hard to comment on it because there is instances that happen so quick that there's no, no one could do anything about it. Of course. And, but yeah, like learning from that, you're like, okay, what do you do to fix that? And I have a list of ideas.

Yeah. I feel like there's a list of ideas for the sport to get better. But man, it's always such a hurdle to get stuff. Yeah. Like people just don't want to change, you know. Yeah. People want to keep it to the old ways. And I'm like, dude, the bikes have changed.

So, you know, time for the safety to change too. Well, I mean, you know, NFL's changed with their helmets and concussion protocols and different things like that. So because the athletes are getting faster, stronger. you know the big hits have always been what people want to see same with the racing like intense racing and bumping into each other and aggressive that's what sells kind of yeah but yeah you got to take care of your athletes yes and the sport has gotten better if you get a concussion they do make you sit out so you can pass a test which is good like the kid that crashed this weekend he crashed is knocked out gets up you're still racing around the track they did black flag them yeah

This is probably the right thing to do. But for me, for the sport to advance, it needs to go down the path of the most advanced sport in America, NFL, right? NFL, you got basketball, baseball. There are leagues. They have leagues. They have basically doctors that look after the athletes, right? And there's protocols that they have to follow.

And it protects the athletes for the long term. There's life after sports. And I feel like that is a number one thing we need to get the sport into Because now it's blowing up sports getting huge, dude So it's time for that we need our leagues We need the protection of the riders The riders need insurance they need disability insurance They need be taken care of

And for me the whole other thing And I'll freaking gonna start a nuclear war right now But like basically How many people come to those races buying a ticket Because they want to see Jet, they want to see Eli They want to see Hayden They want to see their stars Okay, boom. Chacks are getting, I don't know, 40, 50,000 ticket sales.

And you're sitting there and these riders are getting literally not $1 of ticket. Well, not $1, you know, so I'm like, dude, come on. Like the end of the day, the teams are paying to be there. The OEMs are paying the teams. It's a system. It works. I mean, it's hard for me to say anything because I have kids at the top, making good money. But, dude, I was a privateer.

I was one of those guys. That was, like, struggling. So I get it. I have a heart for that. And in the end, I just wanted to, see it fair. You know, I want to see it fair for the riders. And I want to see riders be able to make a good living and not be, like, beat up, broke up at the end of their career with not enough money to, like, make their next mix, you know? And I think it's easy to say, but how do we

fix it? You know, we're all in. We're trying to sell as many tickets as we can for you guys. Yeah, like we're doing our part. We're doing YouTube social show. We're doing three videos a week. We're post every day. Yeah, it helps our partnerships, but it also helps sell tickets. Yeah. And we can go overseas and get paid two, three hundred grand race to show up, you know, why is it not happening here, dude, you know? So, I don't know, like, that's going to blow up, you know? There's more to it. There's a, like, even, do UFC kind of gets beat up for not, if you look at the revenue

and what the fighters get, it's, you know, 20% or something like that, but it's zero. Sounds like for motocross. Yeah, there is a payout. There is a payout for the riders. But, like, I think it's for, like, Hayden, won a Supercross. I think it might have been five grand for him to win that super cross. Who pays that?

So that is paid by, I think it's paid by the AMA. So you pay a fee to race. You pay for membership and you pay an entry fee. And that goes to like a purse that goes that pays out to the riders. And it's been the same for many years. Like so at the end of the day, there's a very, very small payout that goes to the riders. And it's just enough for like guys to get gas money, get to the next race. So that is their purse, right?

The only one that really pays is the SMX series at the end is the playoffs, the three rounds. It's a million dollar prize to win the 450 purse money, 500 grand to win the lights class. But the caveat to that is usually the OEMs pay that fee. They don't pay that fee for those three rounds. So you're still getting his chance to win it, but it's paid by the series, which, man, imagine if both paid. Yeah. That'd be a great job for these guys making. decent money for what they're doing.

Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm not saying the money's there, is not there. I don't, I don't, you know, I don't study the books, but I just know the tickets, they're selling a lot of tickets, you know, the stands are full, which is good for everyone. That's a good thing. It's not a bad thing. It is great. Right?

So, like, everyone's doing their job, so it's just my opinion on it, you know? You can have to. Yeah. Yeah. I did want to say, it's like, what a tragedy that young man who just died was that we were talking about. And it's just, man, I just, it was like. Like as an outsider, could that be avoided?

Of course, you can't avoid all risk. You know, there's going to be risk. But, yeah, I like your ideas on safety just because these kids are, man, it is gnarly. It's gnarly. It's dangerous. Yeah. It's super, super crazy. But, like, people know, like, you know, like, you know, like, when you go bow hunting bears,

you know, the risk, right? There's risk. Like, you do it, you know, it sucks, but it's life. right it's weird it's like it's the more risk the better oh my more exciting yeah the more excited the higher the stakes that's what we want yeah so yeah i mean you can't we don't want it all gone no no yeah yeah and so yeah i agree you can be on both sides of the fence there without that i mean is is the excitement there if it isn't that risky right right i think will watch uFC for hey i want to see a knockout yeah unfortunately and what's

What's that for some guys getting knocked out, right? You want to see the slap competition? It's only cool when one dude gets knocked out, right? I know. Isn't that weird? Like, okay, dude, just freaking brain just got shocked. Oh, God. You're like, yeah, yeah.

I know, it's nuts. Yeah. It's, I do want to get your opinion, though, because you've had such a long career, been involved so long. How do you get to be the best? Like, what today, what makes, why is Hayden the best 250,

writer. Why is, is it Jet Lauren? Who's the number one, 450? But what makes them the best today? Because I've heard you say like it's these teams that have to get together and have to train every day. Is that mandatory?

The OG way and like the kid who crashed was Aiden Zing. Right. Yes, I read that. Yeah, that was to honor and give respect. That wasn't just some kid who crashed. Right.

know this kid Aiden Zing was an awesome young talent coming up and good family from what I see and talked to a buddy who's close to them he said dude it's like it's I mean they're just good people you know it's a heavy situation dude and so you know that but that sport this you know that's I get so like emotional with the sport like when it's when they don't recognize the dangers of the sport yeah and that's why I feel like okay if if the sport's doing well you got to pay these gladiators for what they're doing. So, but, you know, if you're, the question I've been asked many times is like, well, why is Hayden the best kid in the lights class on, like to just say at his team on Star,

and when they all get coached the same, they all get the same coaching program, which is think about that. So they all are, they all are doing the same modos, the same gym workout, the same routine, which I kind of had a hard time with that for a while, but then I tried something different and it didn't actually didn't work. And then we went back to the older. You had a problem because you felt like

you're taking away Hayden's advantage if everybody's doing the same thing. I felt like why are we doing the same thing when Hayden needs, he needs, he needs what he needs. He needs what he needs, right? We're going to focus on his weaknesses. Right. And we kind of built a program around that,

got away from our normal training program with the team, and honestly went backwards. Yeah, I'm cool. I can say that. I'm not scared to say I don't always make the right decisions, dude. You know, like sometimes I'm willing to try and figure it out.

If it doesn't work, cool, try it, move on. Let's go to the next thing, right? So why is Hayden the one that, you know, wins on the weekends? You know, it's comes down to, and you look at like, I can't totally speak for the Lawrence's

because I don't, like, I'm not them, but I can see what they've, their path, which is, you know, similarities to what we have, done as a young age we really focused on the foundation and we focused us on how many skills can we get Hayden before he turns pro and at our house we had a skate park BMX park foam pit trampoline we had a you know freestyle park a motocross track with massive rhythm jumps huge doubles turn track sand track oval flat track you know I can do it less

be nice. Yeah, must be nice. You know, who built all that shit? So he touched all this stuff. And so his foundation, dude,

like, and people are like, man, when he crashes, this dude rolls and gets up and runs back to the bike, I'm on, yeah,

have ever seen skateboarders crash down in L.A. in the city? Knowing how to fall. They know how to fall. They roll out of it and they're good. Like,

how do you think that happens? And because they learned how to tumble. And that's something Hayden learned at a young age with trampolines and on mats. And we always,

had mats because we were always into jujitsu and always into the fight we used to have backyard fights back in the day in our garage so we've always had wrestling in our office we had a gym in our office and we'd have like fights in our office but anyway so Hayden grew up around you know tumbling all that so he had a foundation built so when he got to train with the pro team he i feel like he had a better foundation and he was raised in it in a household that was raised by winning chance Championships. Like that was what the vibe was in the house. Yeah. You know, you look at a lot of these kids are just Ricky Carmichael's Chad Reed one day told me they're like champions are born

they're not built like in motorcross and I said no I don't believe that you can build a champion yeah and I look at it I'm like damn dude are they right like because like why are certain kids just really good at the sport because there's certain kids that come from like the dad's a plumber

or the dad's a electrician and like he wrote a little bit and the kid's just really good like yeah but I feel like those guys that's my opinion those guys when it comes to like championship level multiple championships being the grinder and like being the dog under pressure they don't have that little extra and i feel like that is that little extra comes from that the upbringing the household of the community he's grew up in of like dude it's win or nothing

you know like you win at all costs you know and yeah yeah and whatever it takes we you know if it you know if we got a freaking like you tell my kid if i had to drive to california tomorrow to get you something to help you win you know i'll do it right like like we don't care whatever it takes dude you know and so and they grew up on that you know and they saw me they saw me build race teams they saw me win and rallying trucks and dirt bikes and they saw they grew up around that right so you don't think that rubs off on yeah you know well it's it's how you speak it's how you walk around it's how you carry yourself it's how you, you know, whatever. It's like all that matters with a kid that's watching.

Yeah. It's like, because I thought about that, you know, I'm not saying that I always won, but I always wanted to win the handstand contest in school. I always won like the jogathon. It's just like, so when you've been competing since you were five and now I'm 57, so say 50 years of competing. Yeah. That people notice in your family.

Yeah. They will notice that what that means. And you talk, when you look at things like you critique things, you're watching on TV, the words you're using, that the kids, it's going to affect your kid. Oh, big time. So it's like, no, we compete at everything. I think that, is that what you're kind of saying? Yeah, I feel like my kids grew up around a competition every weekend. You know, we were at the racetrack.

We were at some X games event and not just competition. They grew up around cameras, around the media, you know, NBC, ESPN, they're always at the house doing features. And they grew up just around that. So when the cameras come around, they're super nat. Like people are like, your kids are good at, I'm camp. Yeah, they grew up around it, you know? So, yes, the atmosphere they grow up in is heavily weighs on who they become

and how they compete and how they see winning and losing. right and i'm not saying they go what would dad do they know what dad did you right they know like they know what mom another formula to success which i ain't getting let all my secrets out i think for for at least us it was a mom and dad were aligned on on um the racing winning and being tough you know like like so when when they crash and fall get up you're fine you know like oh they couldn't run to mom and like oh mom my arm i don't think i can race i don't think i can do or train today i don't she's like dude you're fine go you know like and yeah if it's broke and hurt we're gonna fix it right we're on it right we know like i've been through enough of that that i can

tell like when it's real or not at least most of the time um so anyway my point is that together, you know, if you have one parent that's a little, like, can be the softer, you know, there's a time for it, but if the softer, like, kids can run to them all the time and get that out, you're going to be a tough battle. Yeah. You know, that's going to be a tough road to form a kid to a killer, right? Definitely. I get that.

So, anyhow, and there's two sides of that, like, people, like, they see the competitive kids and they say, But a big thing for us is like if we're not at the racetrack, we really push to be at church on Sundays. You know, that's a thing for us. Yeah. And wherever we're at, you know, we got a chapel service at the racetrack. You know, we make a priority to do that. And I feel like that to us is important. It's a foundation.

It shows responsibility. It's a guideline. It's manual for us, you know. And I think, like, would I be where I'm at without that? I don't think so. You know, I feel like I've leaned on that many times. And, you know, I'm a man. Things come through my mind all the time.

Yeah, I'm like, okay, sinking this, that, this, that. Well, what's right, what's wrong? Right. You know? And that, that to me is trying to give that to my kids so they have a fighting chance. Yeah. Man, it's a war right now. Oh, man.

It's a war with the internet. I know what you're saying. It's a war. Yeah. So if you have that positive foundation and the family, the anchor and yeah you can build off that yeah the competition all that the killer instinct great but it has to be built on the right foundation i feel i guess you know and i know it's easy for people to point fingers and easier people say well if you're if you're if you're a christian

why are you guys doing this why are you doing that why is this and i'm like you know like at the day we believe what we believe we we we do the best we can you know and saying we're not i never said we're perfect like an hour near it you know I'm saying we do our best to raise our kids in a certain way that we do it to give them the best shot at life you know like you know I feel like if we just say yeah go do what you want whatever you feel like doing it's fine you know just have fun like you mean I just don't feel like we'd be doing our jobs yeah so that that's yeah I agree with that um I'm care on the training and I was wondering how much body weight affects performance on the track.

Like how much do you pay attention to every ounce? You know, because what I do with the racing and the hunting, we're always looking in ounces, ounces matter, and then fueling matters, like, you know, in these races. But how much are you guys looking at body weight? So the crazy thing about sports here is, are with, you know, certain sports, like look at basketball. You have to be tall, right?

Yeah. It might not to get off on a different subject, but imagine if they had a rule in basketball where you had to have one guy that was, you know, say six foot, five, one guy that's six foot, you have to have a guy that's five, eight, you have to have a guy that says, you imagine how much more opportunity

it would give people. You know, right? You know, your kids want to play? Yeah. You know, the big leagues will never can because of size. They're five seven. Yeah, like me, Nebraska football. I'm like, bro, I can't too small.

football i couldn't do it yeah so um that's not fair yeah but you know so motorcross right the bike is built for about a 165 to 175 pound rider that's kind of what they're built for about probably a 510 511 rider is kind of what dirt bikes are built for that's i'd say it's not specific but that's a range and you know i hate him being on the shorter side you know and but he's stocky and strong which is a good advantage. I feel as smaller riders have an advantage outdoors. I feel like their legs are shorter. They can lay it into the ruts.

They don't get their legs caught up. You look at the best riders to ever ride a dirt bike. Ricky Carmichael is probably 5-7, you know, 155 pounds probably. Next best guy or another one of the best guys, not Max best, but James Stewart is 5-7, probably 150 pounds, you know? And so these guys, are the best super cross is always changing the jumps are changing the whips are getting bigger the whoops section do cater to a taller leg guy that does cater but you can get it done shorter you can get it

done with good technique well how come what is it cater to because the bike's uh teeter tottering through a set of whoops and and the bike is going whoop to whoop to whip like going back and forth and that's just the pure science of distance okay to your bike yeah this the bike's not hitting you in the butt oh i see you're tall you know it's letting the bike work a little bit a little bit a little little more. It is, I mean, for that, for Supercross, yeah, tall, tall helps. And now guys are leaving their legs on more instead of sticking their legs out in the turn. So that's going to help tall riders also. But overall, I don't, like, it's kind of an odd sport that you can have a kid who's 5758, 160 pounds, battle a guy who's six foot, 180 pounds. I figured Tomax got

to be 511, 6 foot, maybe, I'm guessing, 180, 190 pounds. Yeah. I think. I think he's a little smaller. Okay. I think so. But I don't know. Yeah. So, I mean, he looks like a big guy when he rides a bird bike. Like a big dude.

And so like March Bank's big dude. Yeah. It hurts you on the starts, the weight. Mm-hmm. Because your bike has to pull that weight. Yeah. If it's 15 pounds from 155 to 170, 15 pounds has to matter. Yeah.

It's like a lot of mud on your bike. Yeah. Yeah. But you can get it. 450 is a fast bike. You can get it done being heavy. That kind of an equalizer. The 250.

class the weight does matter because the bikes aren't as fast but what is the perfect size and weight i don't know you know i'm just curious i didn't know if it mattered i was just wondering yeah i would say hayden was a little heavier in supercross just because the training wasn't as hard motorcross is harder than supercross in the story like there's guys that will battle with hayden like when he goes and races supercross there's guys that will battle with them outdoors they're not even close to him. He's dusts them. Yeah. Why? You know? There's more separation. There's more separation. There's more speeds. There's more obstacles

on the track. In Supercross, if one section on the track can make or break the race, okay, then the rest of the track must be pretty easy. It's a whoop section that usually makes or breaks the race. And outdoors, it's not one section. Yeah. It's like many sections that add up. So I still, I'll stand behind that. Motorcross is harder than Super Gross. Hands down. Like, it's just more rich. more and I don't know I wouldn't say more risk it's just the speeds and in this I think my opinion that it's it's a to be a motocross a good motocross guy that wins I just feel like you still deep down inside the riders respect those guys the most there's just more respect that's my maybe I'm old maybe I'm an old school but I just feel like

the most respect comes to the guys can rip a motor track well and how much to me looking at those shadows at Shugel in the trees coming into the sun. To me that seemed like a huge challenge. It's very difficult. Is that? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

And how do you get good at that? Just knowing the track. Okay. Knowing where the ruts are. Doing homework or what? Most of the time in the practice in the morning, the ruts shape up and that dirt's so hard there like a rock that once they shape up, they're there all day. They're going to stay.

So once you kind of know where they're at, you kind of aim for those. The worst case scenario is they water before the races because they keep the dust down. and it's slick and you don't know where those water puddles and pockets are and you go in there and the front end washes out the rear in wash out that's the worst case especially at that track that track is like hard pack i see yeah it's super the dirt's super hard okay yeah which is it's a different technique a different bike set up there's there's much to winning that race you know hayden's won at the last two years there i mean he's been one one every time going there his rookie season he won there uh it kind of a breakout ride okay you know and and

And this year, I'm like, dude, wanted to win the race again. Yeah. And he knew it. He had that pressure on him from when we got there. Right. He had the pressure of everyone. You won one. You're going to win.

You're going to win. And you're a kid. Like, you're like, yeah, it's a pressure. Do you don't care what people say? Yeah. Leading the points. You know, you're the points leader. Why is there only one points leader?

Yeah. Because it's freaking hard, dude. And it's pressure. You look at the guys he's battling. Like, Joe Shimoda's awesome, dude. He's a great rider. But, you know, it comes on strong at the end of the season And he's giving Hayden a run

And that's great, please battle him Like, let's keep pushing them Right? I love it when it's tough. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, I love to see him push Because next year's going to be very difficult

He's going to have to race 450 class And it is going to be tough. Yeah. We know that. So let's get ready, you know? Right. Is he ready for it? I would say, is you ready today?

Hmm. I feel like we all know There's little things we need to like fix Not fixed, but little things we need to sharpen. Like sharpen the sword a little bit. Like what's one thing? I would say perfect laps. What do you mean?

Not making mistakes, minimizing the mistakes. Okay. Because he's more old school, likes to just twist the throttle and just go, like lay it down, you know? And he's more of a racer too. A lot of people get caught up in the qualifying and think, oh, you got to qualify first. You get no points for that. There's nothing for it. You get gate pick, which helps at times.

Yeah. But in the end, there's dudes like Cooper Webb who, like, qualify, you know, whatever, fifth, six, and go out and win the main event. Because he's the race, their dogs, the racers. Yeah. And that's Hayden. He's more, he'll figure it out when it's race time. I see.

He's been qualifying first quite a bit this year, but like this last weekend he didn't qualify that good. He's like, dude, he's, I'm fun. Like, I know how to race, dude. Yeah. You know? I guess it's like sparring or something during the week being lax and then, you know, go to the in the main event you just kick ass right yeah there's certain guys that are just

gamers you know how i was curious too we got okay we got a few more minutes but uh we have eight minutes um how much is like um because i think these kids when they're very young they're identified to have talent do they have to ship off away from their family to train uh it's it's tough to be the best um um i would say, I would say no. I think you could get it done on your own if you have a little bit of property and you built your own little track and you have a good coach. Nowadays you have to have a good coach. Like a coach. Are you, are you, uh, hidden coach? I would say I've been his coach

since he was a little kid. There's no question of that. You say I'm the dad, whatever, but there's no one, like I leave no like stone unturned, you know, like we do I, I've hired dozens of coaches for them. I love more coaches the better. I love learning from everyone. Yeah. I feel like if you can't listen and learn from people, I don't even want to be around you, do you?

Yeah. I get that. I love that. Yeah. So I've listened, I've had, that's a whole point to this podcast so I can learn. That's why I do this. Yeah.

I want to learn from the best. So I appreciate that. Yeah. And likewise. So I feel like I love taking an information information and I like Hayden has done like a ton of coaching a ton of different coaches and uh everyone has their their little pieces you know to the puzzle to build and and and get to your question can a rider do it on his own i feel like yes there's one kid that kind of did do it on his own

with a track like this kid cole davies is good he was trained by ben townley ben townley is a great great coach but he's in new zealand so he's hard to get it kind of get a hold of and he he caught him kind of in his backyard track and or their facility over there i've never been there i haven't seen it but he did he was good yeah he's coached them great and your kid turned out good like it so it can't be done right the best scenario is though yeah your kid earns a factor your eye at a young age because he's a good amateur and gets on a team and the team builds them that's the formula right now that that that's working you know but yeah i think you can get it done done on your own. I think we could have done it on our own with the right coaching, but you need

good equipment, dude. You got to have good equipment. Like, we're Star, the Star Yama team has a race shop, engine, suspension, techs. We go train there and they're on Hayden 24, like 24-7 when he's there, they're dialing in his bike is everything. So that's the new formula, you know. How much is training a part of that? They train. He gets back on a Sunday or Saturday. Saturday, usually, and then Sunday's a recovery day. They're on cycling Monday, training Monday, like gym stuff. And then Motos, Tuesday, Wednesday. And they do gym after Moto, too.

And then Thursday, they're flying out for Press Day Friday. Okay. And that's every week. So they train every day, dude. That's a grind. And now in the summer, it's hot. So to get back to what we're talking about earlier, the old school mentality of the Ricky Carmichael's was like train, train, train, train,

in the heat of the day. we're going we're going to motos tons of riding during the week and then he was a machine on he was a machine for many years but i feel like that was so unsustainable very tough and he was he one of one he was one okay yeah and his mom is it was very and the mom was the driving force not so much to dad in this scenario but they're both supportive and and the mom is still at start of this day doing every lap of every rider on lap time so much with it yeah she's she is machine and I love picking her brain she showed me every training day of Ricky every year by every month every day on a piece of paper and a calendars she had stacks of calendars I go could I see those

and I would like to read those so I read them and I'm like dude they are gnarly and I'm like this is the highest level stuff I've ever seen as far as like like coming grinding like he he went right till middle of the day they said like one o'clock like to make it to get in the heat of the To make it as challenging as possible? Challenging as possible. He'd do, from what I understood, he would come back from the races. He'd be motoring Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. They didn't ride Thursday.

His motoring on the track. Yeah. Doing motos, like training. And his motos were, he would do like three, from what I understand, three 40-minute motos, which is like now the guys do like 140, 120, do a couple sprints and starts, and that's a day, right? So he did like triple the work. But he would go on the weekends and smoke everyone.

I'm like, dude, so you think, oh, is that the way? Yeah. And my son's like, I ain't doing that. Dude, that's crazy. It seems like the way. I'm like, bro, that worked. And he's like, dude, that's why he retired when he was like 26. Right.

He's like, he was the man. He retired on. He's an icon. Yep. And he did it. But I, my, my opinion on it is how can you do it to where you're still enjoying it? And you're not just take, you know, I feel like you're, you're. a point where you can start tearing your body down yeah right and taking days and not years off

your life right just because you're grinding your body to the extreme so much yeah and now recovery's a new thing like people under our understanding recovery is a big thing showing up at the racetrack fresh ready to go and is it sauna cold tub diet that you mean that yeah massage yeah all the all the things that probably fighters do that you know everyone's kind of knows now because of the internet you're like ice bath you know, hyperbaric chamber. We got infrared saunas. You have, you know, eating right, the vitamins, the supplements, and rest. Like to me, there's nothing better than just sleeping.

Yeah, true. And the story. You know, I'm always fascinated with the top tip of the spear people. And I asked, you know, this American record holder, the best American marathoner we have right now, I had him here like a week or so ago. But he was like, he wants to be a good husband and he wants to be a good person. He's like, I'm like, okay, well, that's good. But what about the guy who doesn't care about that?

Doesn't care about being good. All they care about is competing. Yeah. And they're just going to train nonstop. They don't care about anybody. Yeah. Just what they want to be the best. So there's a, but does that, I don't know, because he said he's like in a marathon, he has,

he picked 26 names every mile. He's running for somebody. So he cared about 26 people. Did that give him more of a purpose than the guy who's just like, I don't give a fuck about anybody. I'm going to kill everyone. I'm going to beat everyone. How long does that last?

I'm going to out train everyone. I don't know, but maybe it only lasts as long as Ricky Carmichael. Yeah, yeah. And we're still talking about him. Okay. So Ricky, I believe his motivation was not losing. He didn't want to lose.

Okay. And I think he's retired on top because he's like, hey, I'm retiring on top. Instead of riding it out another three or four years, making an extra $5, $10 million a year for extra three or four years. That's a lot of money. You know, it goes, when you want a certain lifestyle, money goes quick, depending on who you're with and what your lifestyle is.

But, yeah, I think that, man, yeah, I feel like that there's many ways to look at that one. It's likely unsustainable that just all about yourself all the time. Yeah. No, I don't think that's sustainable. Yeah. And I think what has been a secret to our, you know, success, whatever you want to call it, is goals, goals. Yeah. We have goals written.

Like when I was younger, if you look at pictures when I was a teenager racing, I had goal sheets on my wall. All handwritten goal sheets. What I want to do today, tomorrow the next day of the month. Like how old were you? Probably 17, 18. Okay. You know, my dad, you know, I was struggling with leading races at the time. I get out front and get nervous to set.

So I went to like a sports psychologist and start talking about, you know, the brain game. And I was great. He was like, hey, man, let's start writing goals down and making, you know, having a plan. Okay. So that was kind of where I started with it. And I would do whatever it took, you know, whatever it takes. So I just write my goals down. You know, to this day, the kids do that.

You know, to this day, I ask kids at a young age, hey, let's write your goals down. What are we doing today? What are we doing this month? What's your plan for this year? What's your plan for next year? Let's write all this down. You have let's write it down. Yeah. Like now it's scientific that makes it real makes it real. Yeah. And scientifically now there's a percentage that how much more it's it is gonna actually happen now. It's scientifically proven. Yeah. It's writing it down and it produces. Okay. It's not there's no question for me. I'm still a note taker every day like I know you have your iPhone. You put notes in it, but I write not pads. I still write on paper and there's what I want to do what I need to do. And I that's when I get it done. I like mark it off guys. That's all. Awesome.

I'm like old school, dude. We've got all the secrets on this podcast. Yeah, yeah. A lot of old school stuff, dude. People are like, yeah, I don't do that. I love it. Well, okay, you guys have one question because he's got to get out of here. Okay.

This is a peanut gallery. We've got to entertain them. Yeah, that's cool. I'll choose the most important one. Fri-Kill, racing dirt bikes, freestyle, or truck racing. I feel like Out of it all for me Was freestyle

You know that was my era That's what I was going to marry freestyle So you got to fuck one Marry one kill one Oh is that what it says? So one you can never do again You got to kill it Okay

One you're gonna fuck it Just that's fun When are you gonna marry That's your anchor Okay So yeah I would say the You said motorcross freestyle or truck racing yeah okay so i'd say the truck racing yeah that could be kill it kill it that's

fine i had my run in it and the one i would probably yeah it would be freestyle and marry obumoto okay i'm married to motto yeah right it is what it is like i've live it like every day you know yeah and my wife's even like dude like is that all you think about and i'm like you know what she's like When you talk to people, you have so much to say when it's about racing. She's like, when I have friends come over, a family or others, you come over and it's not about racing, you know, I don't even want to say nothing. Yeah. And I'm like, you know what?

And I've studied this. And I have done counseling and I've done, and I'm scared to say that. I've been to many, like talk to many smart professors, many smart, not I say professors, but counselors and very smart people that have given me good advice on human psychology. Human psychology. Yeah. Because I like to learn about that. And I feel like that has been, yeah, that has been something that has taught me to, like,

I feel like make the right decisions and, I don't know, just kind of see the overall big picture, you know. Like have more perspective. Have more perspective. Like step back and go, okay, there's more to life than just this motor thing. But what I was trying to say for a lot of thought there was I get in a flow state. Yeah. When you have stuff, you want to talk. when you love.

You're like, something you like, like, you get on a flow state and modus a flow state for me. I can talk about it all day. Like, good,

I'm glad I found that. Yeah, I have that. I've told Rogan this before. I'm like, what do people who don't bow hunt? What do they talk about? It's like,

and so that's kind of what I don't know what the people do or talk about is. That's funny. Yeah. So it seems like it's similar to you. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, world you think so big. Yeah. To you, that's a big world. Like I don't know. know that world so to me that doesn't like really that world doesn't even exist right i like to like to

like to learn more about it i get it to me like it's probably motto to you like yeah it's cool i went and checked out this weekend i'm fascinated by probably didn't even know that happened over there no i didn't dude they were talking about this was shugel thing like after i did the super crop there at seattle i had never i'm like oh it's a big thing i didn't even know yeah Probably like your biggest event for bow hunting, right? Right. I don't even know what that one is. Yeah, yeah.

So it's, but it's been amazing to learn about. And like all your, you know, I've known, I've been a fan of you for a long time, but like to hear the, like, how your mindset and, I mean, your story has just been amazing. So thank you for coming here and sharing everything. And I learned a ton today. Loved sharing archery with you and Mount Piscuit with you. Yeah. So thank you very much.

much. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me. It's a huge honor to have you here, Brian. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. And I guess I didn't say too. I did, I don't know when it was about a year or two ago. I didn't read your book. I listened to an audible. Okay. Yeah. I'm more of an audible guy. Yeah, no, it's all good. Well, thank you. Yeah. So I've listened to the whole story and that's I'm like, I have to make my way out there. Yeah. Because it's just, and at some point we need to have a conversation more about what you have to say to. I don't have anything to say. Yeah, yeah.

I like to hear your story more too from you, but I listen to your story on, you know, audible and so, so it's why I'm here. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah.

It's been badass. Tons of respect for you and your family. Love, I mean, I want nothing but success. Loved, I mean, I appreciate you as a friend now. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate it. Yeah.

So thank you. Yeah. All right. Good job, guys. It's a wrap. Thanks. Keep hammering. Later.