Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 145 - Tanner Hanes

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Join us for one of the most requested guests and Cam’s oldest son - Tanner Hanes. Cam and Tanner talk about Tanner’s recent elk hunt where he harvested one of the biggest bulls of his lifetime on public land, difficulties of hunting the wilderness, and more!  Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00  Tanner’s Hunting Career: The Army, Work, & Experience from a Friend 00:06:11  Packing Meat out of the Wilderness: Solo vs Group Hunts 00:13:17  Garret Downing: Handling the Mules for the Hunt 00:15:51  Tanner’s 7x7 Public Land Bull: The Hunt 00:25:55  Difficult Shots No One Wants to Talk About 00:38:48  Journaling During Hunting & Overcoming Failure 00:44:18  Day 3: Feelings of Jealousy and Defeat 00:49:13  Days 5-7: Hunting Alone, Keep Moving, and Weather in the Mountains 00:54:25  The Last Day: The Bull of Tanner’s Lifetime 01:09:18  Hard Work and Luck 01:15:18  Hunting with Cam at 7 Years Old in the Mountains 01:16:47  Support with Hauling the Elk Meat Out & Tanner’s Wife’s Support 01:22:33  Cam’s Wilderness Bull: A Team to Carry Out the Meat 01:31:35  Documenting the Memories 01:37:41  Finding Your Purpose After the Army 01:40:48  Luck is Not Something You Hope for in Hunting, it is Something You Earn 01:42:11  What Prepared Tanner the Most for the Hunt 01:43:25  QA: F#$k, Marry, Kill: Chicken Alfredo, Biscuits & Gravy, & Chicken Pesto 01:44:37  Generational Legacies in Hunting 01:49:36  Outro Thank you to our sponsors: Hoyt:⁠ http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv⁠ use code CAM for 10% off Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move is so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is a Keep Hammering Collective with round of applause. The studio audience goes wild.

Tanner Haynes. You are probably, I'm going to, you are the number one request. guest. Did you know that? Yeah, I don't know why. People want to hear. You've been like in the shadows. You're like the man of mystery. Scrubbed your social. People are like, done it a few times. Who is this guy? So this is one of James's questions that I hate when he does. Who is Tanner Haynes? Well, yeah, I'm not a big, not a big talker. Yeah. Or a people person in general.

Yeah, me neither. I have a pretty small, pretty small circle. And I don't know, I just like to say to myself. And I'm not confused about this. So if anybody wants to say anything about it, I'm here on this podcast because you are my dad. Yeah, you didn't. I'm not retarded. No shit.

That's why I'm here. You, well, yeah, and you've never asked, hey, could I be on the podcast? It's like the complete opposite. I've tried to get you on here a thousand times. You're like, no, no, no. So then this morning I told Tara and I said, guess what? Tanner's going on the podcast.

You know what that means? She's the only one after this. But, uh, no. I don't think she's going to be on. Yeah, it's, uh, well, we could tell them about the wager of why I'm here. What was it? Tell me. Well, you've tried to get me on a hundred times.

Yeah. I've always said no. And I said, if I killed a big bowl this year, I would do it. I didn't think it was actually going to happen. So I didn't think I had to worry about it. Yeah. You kind of screwed yourself, didn't you? Yeah.

So, unfortunately. Well, okay, so let's catch everybody up to speed. That was the wager. That was the deal. You said, because you said you hadn't done anything. and you have nothing to talk about, you know, kind of downplaying everything you've done. And then I was like, okay, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then you're saying, but if I kill a big bull, okay, then we can, and it happened.

So how, I mean, yeah, walk me through that. Just how did that come to be? Because you've done a lot of hunting. You've been in the wilderness over your life. You've killed, rifle killed a bull in the Colorado wilderness a couple years ago, right? So how did it tell me. me that journey about where you you got found yourself in the wilderness bow in hand this year well i mean yeah i mean i've been exposed to it for a long time i kind of grew up around it and was forced to go to it

and all that stuff but honestly my hunting career has been like halted pretty much my entire 20s so like When you do the most growing in hunting, like I wasn't able to just because of my job. So I never had hunting seasons off. I didn't really care to hunt. I was just kind of focused on what I was doing. But now I'm out of the Army. So first year I was out, I filmed you. So that's a wrap on that hunting season.

Couldn't do it. Then I got a new job last year and I didn't feel comfortable taking time off. I'm not a big time off guy at work. I don't know. But, I mean, I'm becoming more of a fan of it. To be honest. Yeah. And then this year, so I pretty much this whole story is going to revolve around, well, our hunt, but my buddy cord.

I mean, I literally couldn't have done any of this stuff if it wasn't for him. known of my entire life pretty much. I don't know how old we were nine or ten playing basketball. But Cord's one of those guys. He's just a stud. He's good at everything. And he's a good leader. And he's good at planning stuff.

And he's been going to this wilderness kind of because of you. And he's become good at it. And he has animals, which is a whole other thing. And anyways, I see him every day at work. We work together, and he kind of opened this door and invited me to go with them. So it's something that I've wanted to do. I've been reading. You know, I read your stuff.

I watch your old videos. I read Silver Tip. I have the Fred Bear books. I mean, I love that stuff. I really do. But it's hard to, it's hard to, like, make it happen on your own sometimes. There's a lot of logistics. And he really helped, really helped it.

Open that door. Yeah, like come together. Yeah. There's a barrier of entry to hunt the will, to hunt any big country, really, but wilderness specifically, which if people don't know, a designated wilderness, there's no wheels allowed. You can't take four wheelers. You can't take e-bikes. You can't, you can go on foot and then a horse. No motorized anything.

No chainsaws. It's, they want to preserve it. They want it to be as wild as it can be. like where they get the name wilderness. And it's not something that you can't, it's not something you can ignore because if you kill a bowl back there, like in the beginning of September,

there is an absolute time limit on getting that meat out. So even if you are tough enough, you're like, I'm just going to pack this bowl out. You'll never preserve all the meat. So it's like you can't ignore it. So when a good friend of mine is like, I have animals, I want you to come with us.

It's something I want to do anyways. For months, I had been talking about just going by myself. Yeah. Just because it's cool. And it's like Paul Schaefer. And it's like you and Roy. And it's like, I want to do that. But then I started thinking about it more.

And I was like, I don't even know if I'm ready for that yet. So I kind of wanted to learn from Cord. Yeah. Like I wanted to spend this year, he's been successful back there a couple times. Yeah. He killed some bulls. Yeah. So I don't know.

know he helped me out and bided me and then i was i was back there yeah i want to uh i mean there is the weather thing the meat thing that is you know you did say he's like uh you'll never be able to get it out you could conceivably get a bull out by yourself early you got to get really lucky you'd have to it'd have to be cold nights you'd have to kill in the right spot it's just for people who don't know it's just not a smart thing to do it's not smart to go by yourself to kill a bull early in September because there's a chance you're going to lose all that meat. It's going to spoil. And that's why we hunt. That's, you know, honoring and respecting the animal's life is means getting that meat out. So you said you could never do it.

You could you could conceivably do it. Odds aren't looking great. I mean, I was more referring to our situation like this year. It was really hot. Yeah, it was. We were really far. And, and, I mean, I could never have done it in our situation. Now, not probably not without weather. I mean, physically, I think you could make the trip. So, like, I'll just break it down for people. So on this bull, you know, I killed. We got 300 pounds of boned out meat.

So if you say, if you're going to pack that out yourself, 75 pounds a load four times. If you're 10 miles back, which I don't want to say how far back you were, but you guys were way back, back. So 10 miles back. So you kill that bull. You first load, you break it down, conceivably the meat's in a good spot. First load out, 10 miles to the trailhead. Okay. 10 miles back. There's 20 miles. 10 miles back to trailhead to the second load. 10 miles. 10. 10. There's 40 miles. 40 of it with with 75 pounds on your back. I don't know many people who can do that. That is just, and you don't have a month to do it.

You got like two days or one day when it's 90 degrees. And that's providing you got the hide off. You got it skinned. You got the guts out. You got the meat off the bone. Sometimes it can turn bone sour if it's warm. So there's so much work that has to be perfect before you can pack it or hike 80. miles with in 40 of it with heavy weight that is this is not good so when you say that

we'll cord open the door because that animals that's what's required that's i mean ethically you you shouldn't be hunting by yourself without that and i remember when you were going i said because you had mentioned like oh solo would be cool and you know you read all the stuff and it is it's amazing um but what i said is like i would you know just Take this as like an opportunity just to kind of learn the ropes of the wilderness. And it's like, you know, don't get ahead of yourself to like, I need to go solo because you can learn a lot like from people who've done it in court. Just to kill multiple bulls in the wilderness, that you're already set yourself apart.

Hardly anybody does that. So there's just a good opportunity and you've explained it well, but that you learn from people who had been back there for years. And that makes a huge difference just with what's required, what's needed, to camp um how how it just works but i was super pumped and then as you said court is you know so capable and you can always count on them it's it's hard finding people to count on you can count on those guys cord is brother and garrett downing well yeah i mean i spend you know the terrain is it's rigorous yeah and it's hard and it beats you down i i like to think like i train

quite a bit, a lot more than most people. I'm in pretty good shape. I'm actually in better shape than I was in the Army. Yeah. And that was my job. Yeah. But, yeah, Cord's one of those guys who, like, doesn't work out, but is still somehow shredded.

He was literally as good as me hiking around. And I was like, it's bullshit. But, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so he opened that door for me to go. And more than that, I only took a week off, or I took 10 days off of work. A lot of those guys who have been at this job longer, they'll take the whole month off so they can, you know, they live for it. Just like a lot of guys do.

But I'm still fairly new at my job, so I didn't want to be taking a whole month off. So I took 10 days. And then Cord was committed to getting me a bowl. So he was essentially sacrificing his first week so he could go out with me and help me. Well, he wanted to get me an opportunity. Killing a bull is a very, it's a whole other thing. But if he could get me an opportunity at killing a bull, that's what he wanted to do. Yeah.

So, I mean, I was thankful for that, too, just because it's so, it's just a different game. It's a lot. It's rare for somebody to put themselves in the backseat intentionally and say, hey, I'm going to help this guy. That's for young people who have big dreams themselves and like everybody wants to get a bowl, it's pretty rare for a younger guy to say, hey, I'm going to help you get one. That's special. I mean, that's not. And I don't want to, I might not do that.

that. I had my own. I wanted to kill a bull. So me and Roy were always competitive, like hitting each other out of the way to get a shot. So for CORD to be way more mature than we were, but to help you is, I mean, I think that just needs to be, you know, discussed is pretty awesome of them. Yeah, I mean, he's just, he's a leader. And I don't know, he makes leadership decisions. And, you know, I'm really appreciative for that. Yeah, definitely. And then did you want to talk about who? else was in camp at all yeah well Garrett Downing um he was kind of our our mule well whisperer yeah I mean he just has been around those animals so long and I to be honest I didn't even do hardly anything with the mules because it's a whole thing and

I don't want to mess anything up you know when it came to taking them out of the trailer or one a few times they had me take the lead ropes and kind of walk them around just a handful of times, but it's like, I don't even really trust myself. I just don't know anything. Yeah. You know, if you're either raised in it or you're not, and I wasn't. So, I mean, it's a whole thing. And he had so much knowledge and just packing, putting everything together in the side, in the saddle

bags and all the knots and the cinches. And, like, it's, it really is a lot of knowledge and having someone like that. in those situations is like it's a must. I mean, you know how it is. The weather turns in minutes. Sun's shining and then it gets bad and then these mules can kind of get a little rowdy and things can go south really quick.

Yeah, there's high stakes. Yeah, I mean, it's not as, it's not as simple as like, we have mules, we get to pack in as much as we want. Yeah. We get to pack out as much as we want. It's like you could give me six mules and I would have no idea what to do. I would just have six meals with me. Yeah, there'd be nothing getting packed in.

Or I'd have six mules with me for a couple minutes before they ran off. And they were free. Yeah, it's like. No, that's true. It's a lot. Yeah. I mean, I just, well, I'm really thankful to those guys. Brody was there as well.

He helped us with, I mean, it's a different story, but with Cords Bowl. all those guys are just like i was really lucky to be with them because they're not normal yeah and it's just it's weird that we're all from the same town kind of we all all went to the same high school and to have four guys from like that same high school that small of a town be those guys being that tough is like i feel like it's rare i don't know yeah i don't know either they're all they're all studs well we can kind of cut to the chase. At the end of the day,

all four of you guys killed bulls. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's nuts. All wilderness, public land, and all killed with archery equipment. It's four for 400% one camp. It's amazing. And tell me what the bulls were.

Brody killed like an older, I saw it yesterday, like a more mature five point. You know, like he has good mass on it. You can kind of tell those spindly five points and then like one that's heavy. Yeah. And he killed like a heavier one. Older one.

Yeah. Then Garrett killed a five by six. Cord killed a six by six. And then I got, I got lucky with my giant. I mean, it's probably going to be a lifetime achievement for me. Well, we were, we were staying in touch because I was off hunting somewhere else, a couple other places. and then you were back there and every once in a while you'd get service. And, you know, I knew you were coming towards the end of the hump,

but finally you, you know, sent me in text. I fucking did it, whatever. But then you sit and I was like super, I figured it'd be like a spike or, I mean, a five point. I killed, if I saw a five point back there, it's like, it's on. You know, five point or bigger was usually my goal. But then, you know, I was happy. He's like, oh, you got a bull. couldn't believe it, but then you sent the picture. And I was just like, holy shit, this is the

biggest wilderness bull I've ever seen. Shit sticking out the sides. And I'm like, so it wasn't just you got a bowl. It was like, I've never seen a bull that big back there. It's, it was unreal. Um, how'd that happen? Well, I mean, that's kind of, I mean, so much happens before then. Yeah. Just it's, a day is like three days. Oh, I think longer than that. It feels like a day is like a week to me. It's a long time.

It's a long time. It's different. It really is different. I mean, days are so long when you have one thing on your mind. Yeah. And all you do is walk. But how, how nice is that? You have, you need food, water, shelter, kill.

That's it. I mean, it really is so simple. I love that. It is simple. And, you know, I, yeah, I haven't had the, the wilderness experience. But I've had other experiences that were, that were hard. And it almost, it almost made it better to where I didn't even have to worry about, like, necessarily the fitness part of it or the surviving part of it. I was pretty much solely focused on hunting.

Because you were, those things weren't a concern because you've been in hard situations before. So you weren't like overwhelmed? I mean, like the, me and the guys that I was in the Army with, I mean, we get,

we got really comfortable being uncomfortable. And I mean, that's kind of all it is back there of just being slightly uncomfortable all the time. Yeah. And I'm pretty good at it now, and I don't really care about being, like, super uncomfortable. But it was nice not having to worry about that. So that kind of helped me focus on some things.

I had cord with me for a couple of the first days. So we packed in on Friday. I walked in. They took most my gear, so I could save my legs a little bit. So opening day Saturday, packed in a day before. Yeah, on Friday. And then so I walked in, got there, we set up camp, which is more than just popping up a tent because there's those mules. So we did all that.

And then court had a plan. He wanted to get up on top of the ridge and he wanted to glass and see if he could see anything in there. So I was like just trying to be a student and I was down for anything. Like I'd go anywhere. I didn't care. So then we loaded up our packs. My pack was, I was planning on being out there the entire time. So it took how many meals?

I had, well, I took less food than I should have, but I had 14 meals. Okay. And I had snacks and stuff like that. But I had all my sleep stuff. I had all my gear tarps and everything. My pack wasn't that light. Probably 40 some, 50 pounds? Yeah, it was, well, I had weighted.

before we left and it was 35 dry. So no water. Yeah. So it's water over 40. Yeah. And you would think like eating food makes your pack lighter, but those free dried meals are so light that it doesn't really do you a favor eating. No, they're dehydrated.

So the actual food isn't that heavy, but the packaging you're still packing. It's not like you're throwing in the bushes. But yeah, you're not, it's not getting too much lighter. So yeah, we got on the ridge at, right at dusk and then we were glassing i didn't even glass him cord glanced him he's just he's better at me than this stuff he glasses up uh some elk down there and there's a bowl

bugling in the bottom so that was cool and then it was like we kind of had a starting point and season was in the next morning so it was pretty exciting and then uh yeah then woke up in the morning to again and then there were some more bowls down there i actually think we saw five bowls it's a good first day they were like satellites uh i don't i don't think the rut was obviously it was super early and it wasn't on so they're all kind of hanging out together but they were all walking in a line together and it was like five bowls yeah that was pretty cool uh you can't just like get over there how far were they on the other side okay the drainage that's quite a process I mean, it's a, it's a complete ordeal. But, you know, you still hunt everywhere else, too,

even though you see other things. So, yeah, we get up and then we walked around, and we kind of walked all day up and down through other drainagees, and then didn't really hear anything, and we were sitting down for a snack. And there was like, there was a bowl of bugling in the bottom. And then so we went after him, kind of chased him. Corp was calling, calling, calling. We were kind of moving forward towards him, kind of closing distance. And he was on the other side. So now we're one drainage over, but he's on the other side. So it's taken us all day. I think it's like 5 p.m. or something like that. And And this is cord suggestion.

He was like, I think we should go after him. And it was 5 p.m. And I was like, okay, let's go. So we then had a plan. Thought he was on this flat over there. Then we worked our way around. This is still opening day. We did a lot of stuff in one day.

And then we get up on the other side. And you look at Onyx, which is a great tool. but sometimes you can, you think you know where stuff is and it messes you up once you get over there. Not that this messed us up, but I was just walking in front. CORD had planned on calling and we were walking through an opening. Sun is like directly on my white face. Yeah. So, and I wasn't even expecting to see anything.

Not at this point. And I'm walking and then I just am looking forward into this burnt timber. and there was a bull bedded like half his face. I could see his rack. He's a five point. And I just immediately dropped to the ground. Court follows Sue. He drops to the ground.

I like look back at him and kind of mouth. Yeah. The bull's close, like 40 yards. And he's just staring half a tree, like right to me. Yeah. And so I kind of tell him the situation. And he's like, I'm going to drop back and how call so i was like okay and i belly crawl over to the shade of this tree in front of me and i'm on

my knees and i have a pack on and i'm trying to get ranges and uh so i knock an arrow everything i have a dial site i'm trying to get ranges on this thing and it's kind of hard because i'm down low now in the grass and then finally cord gets the bull to stand up and then he walks to the walks to his left, my right, and I range him, 43, I down my side to 43, then he keeps walking. And then he faces me, but through this like burnt bouquet of branches. Yeah. And I'm just kind of waiting.

And then he takes another step to his left, and he's between two burnt trees. And he puts his ass towards me, and he's looking back over his body at me. I'm not going to take that shot obviously, but in my head I can get a good range on them at least. And so I range him 50 yards down my sight. And then the next part that happens is I am,

I've watched you make difficult shots a lot. I mean, I filmed you for an entire season. And there is, I don't think people realize that there's shots that are, like outside of your wheelhouse, like as a new hunter. And this was like kind of one of those situations. So I arranged him at 50. And in my head, I'm playing it like he's going to step one more step to the left in between these trees.

And I'm going to mu and shoot kind of all in one at 50 yards on my knees with a pack on. and sure is shit i mean he does it and i mu and shoot and i do all the stuff like it it went really well yeah as far as all that stuff i shot and uh yeah i i hit him and he ran off and i was watching him and all of my arrow was hanging out of his shoulder and um and i was hanging out of his shoulder and I knew that was not good. And I was just trying to convince myself that, I mean, I wanted to kill a bull back there so bad that I was convincing myself that it was a good shot.

And I even went back before we started trailing, I went to cord, and I was like, it was a good shot. I told him. Then I told him how much of the arrow. And I immediately could see his face change. and he like knew but I wasn't ready to accept it and then uh yeah blood trailed bowl of shoulder yeah and we blood trailed him there's barely any blood he went directly uphill and uh that was that and yeah i know guys don't like talk about that stuff a lot i don't know if

it's not tasteful or or whatever like hitting uh hitting a bull but like i mean it happened and i don't know i just feel like it happens more often than people think or want to talk about yeah it does i mean i'll be honest and people who've read my stuff know this but the first bull i shot at a giant seven by six i hit in the shoulder blade and what happens for people who don't know generally there's a there's exceptions to every rule but generally the arrow goes in about two or three inches through the muscle on the outside of the shoulder blade and stops an arrow most of the time on a big bull cannot penetrate the shoulder blade it's like it's like a it's like a suit of armor for them it protects their chest and their lungs in that

area and they fight all the time very aggressive animals so they're they're heavily muscled heavily boned and arrow just will not go through so essentially what happens and what happened with you was a couple inches of penetration. Generally, the arrow goes in, hits a shoulder blade, and then we'll fall out. And for a bull who's used to fighting, living in the wilderness every day, the hardest, harshest environments,

anybody could live in for 365 days generally in the West here. And they are so tough. They fight, they get jabbed with antlers all the time, jabbed with sticks, chased by wolves. It's a hard life. A little wound from a, and here's the difference too with an arrow. Animals recover from arrow wounds all the time because it's a clean cut.

And so that cut can heal well. Whereas a bullet, it causes so much damage, tears up muscle, creates these holes in the muscle that get infected. So a wound with a rifle, much different than a wound with an arrow. Not to say that I'm not saying one's better or worse, I'm just saying how it is. animals recover from arrow wounds all the time. They have a harder time with the rifle wound. That said, we still don't just shoot and then just like, ah, hit him the shoulder blade onto the next.

It's a hell of a process to verify that's what happened. You had your first inclination on what happened. You said cord's face changed because he knew that happened and what that means. But you guys still went through, had the due diligence. to verify that that bull was not fatally wounded. Is that right? Yeah, so, I mean, we blood trailed. Honestly, the blood was so minimal,

but we blood trailed, we were on hands and knees, I mean, blades of grass. This is what you do as an archer. You have to verify this. And he was, and yeah, blood runs out and tracks, and the blood was going directly up to hip. which is, I mean, it's not like a rolling hill. No, it's a mountain.

Yeah. And yeah, so then we went as far. We did that for as long as we possibly could. Found a flat spot to camp. Camped, woke up in the morning, tried to pick it back up and did that for a few more hours. And I mean, the writing was, it was on the wall. We knew it was just trying to spend a couple days doing it.

just to verify because i mean i would have been done like if i if i if i got shot a bull and didn't find him like i i would be done yeah because he's going to die yeah and we're not we're not killing multiple bowls out there no like i i felt absolutely terrible yeah no there's no there's no worse feeling i felt terrible i felt terrible about the shoulder there's no worse feeling at all but it does bring you some uh like peace that he's he's going to be, he's going to be fine. And, I mean, the nuts and bolts of it is like, I'm a man in the mountains.

And you can try to paint it whatever way you want, but I'm trying to kill, I'm trying to kill him. Like, it's not as pretty as, like, some Instagram stuff. I mean, it's like real, real stuff. It's life and death. Like I'm, and sometimes, and he doesn't want to die. No. And I'm trying to kill him.

He is a professional. Yeah. At staying alive. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like, I don't know. You just, guys never talk about it. And they just like, I'm sure they do it way more often than they talk about stuff like that happens. This isn't a private ranch I paid for.

Like I'm balls deep in the wilderness trying to kill this giant thing. And sometimes it doesn't work. So it's like, I don't know. I like the, I like stuff being as, like. Transparent. Well, no, it's just like the roots of it. Like, you know, like Indians. And, you know, it's just like, that's what we're trying to do back here.

It's the most. I had said it before. Well, I wrote this thing about this whole hunt. But in the writing, I said that these mules, once they're set free in this like wilderness pasture, they kind of go back to their ancestral. Yeah, they do. Like, you can't catch them. And they're like, fuck you. Like, this is awesome.

Yeah. No rules back here. No. And honestly, we are doing the same. Like me, Garrett, Brody, and court, like we have a bow in the mountains. And we're doing what our ancestors did. So like, I like that part of it. Sometimes it's not that pretty.

And it doesn't mean that I don't care. But I'm just trying to accomplish something, you know? Yeah. I will say when Raleigh and I first went back there, that seemed like the elk were different than here. I always said, well, I think we said, but we joked that they had that high-octane fuel, like jet fuel back there. and they were just faster, more in tune, more aware.

And it's like, we had to be on our A game to get anything killed back there. And not to say it's easy here, it just, they seemed more wild back there. And it just took like, okay, this is, yeah, this is the real deal. But those animals, yeah, you have to be at an elevated level. They're at an elevated level. everybody's trying to live, survive, kill each other in some cases. It's just the way it goes. And sometimes it's, I mean, death hunting, life back there isn't always pretty.

There's high stakes and there's some gray area and shit happens. With bow hunting, yeah. I mean, anybody who bow hunts long enough is going to learn all about that shoulder blade on a big bowl. It's just you're going to learn about it. And people get, I know I've been thought I had it figured out. I don't know a couple years ago, I had a 90-pound bow. And I was going to shoot this single bevel broadhead. It's a bone breaker.

And so this bull came in like at 10 yards. And I'm like, oh, I can just pound right through the shoulder, 90-pound bow. I can get through that shoulder on that bull. And I shot at 10 yards. And the arrow just track and just stopped. And no penetration. but thankfully that bull went out to 60 and I was able to shoot him again when he stopped and I got him killed but it wouldn't have been that first arrow wouldn't have done it and I learned my lesson there

so still even though we talk about all this and everybody knows we still have to discuss it because even me after all these years a couple years ago I tried it again and it didn't work so it's just guys stay away from that shoulder I know that wasn't intention You didn't try to hit that, but people, because these 3D targets are designed in such a way, you get so used to looking at that crease and trying to get that arrow on that crease, which you have a, you have 18 inches behind that crease to kill and still get lungs and liver, stay away from the crease because an inch or two on the wrong side of the crease to the forward, to the forward end of the elk, you're just not going to get penetration.

And that's, that's what you learned on that one. I've learned it myself, as I said, on my first bull. I've learned it multiple times, unfortunately, over the course of, you know, 35 years of bow hunting. But tell me what that felt like. You felt, I'm sure you couldn't have felt worse. You let cord down, I'm sure. So tell me what that feels like to be, have so much invested in that and to fail, essentially. it's life, but explain it to me.

Well, before I went on this trip, you had given me the suggestion of writing and keeping a journal with me. And so I did, I had pen and paper, and I was kind of writing in it. And I would just do it at not. or, you know, some days I'd miss a day and I'd catch up on it. And I'm sure I got on my phone what I wrote that night.

But what I've learned too is why I've mentioned that to you is there's no real or more raw moments than when you're in the wilderness by yourself. And I thought it's kind of therapeutic, but also it's important for you know we we a lot of people who like to criticize social media and sharing our experiences and this and that but i like to celebrate sharing what the moments and when you get home it's a little diluted you kind of fill in the blanks on some stuff maybe you're not as honest as you would have been laying in a sleeping bag at night so i thought it was important for you to let's get it when it happens do that journal do it at night and let's just because it's so valuable to have those

those incredible memories etched that are they're so truthful and so real that are etched in essentially your history forever so tell me what you wrote that night um yeah so i mean this is just a picture of a picture of my journal but i have i have a picture of it I just, that night I wrote, I cannot recall a time where I felt like more of a failure in my entire life. I felt like a husband and a father who let their wife and daughter down, a son that let their wilderness veteran father down. I could have cried in the middle of the wilderness, bow in hand, and I blew it. Yeah, that hurts. That hurts.

And nobody wants to know what that feels like, but when you do, it can be life-changing. And it's some people, they get to that point. And in real life, you can protect yourself from moments like that. You're going to be disappointed, but that is like so much disappointment. And so what happens back there is it hurts so bad. Some people never go back. Some people like, I'm not facing that pain. I'm not facing that feeling of failure ever again.

I'm not putting so much into this, thinking about this for years and months and training and failing and having it hurt so bad, I'm not doing this. I'm going to start rifle hunting. You know, I'm going to start whatever, honey. I'm not doing this again. Or they might not say that,

but that's what happens. They just don't go back because it hurts. So to overcome something like that, it's either you got two directions you can go you can never go back or you can be like okay this hurts now what now what am i going to do so what'd you do well i mean that i had put so much like pressure on myself to six i mean i feel like that helps me out a lot is putting pressure on myself like that just because I don't know I wanted to succeed so bad and when you are that close

inches from succeeding it that's what almost makes it like it would hurt less if I didn't see an elk or just to or to miss if the arrow missed completely yeah yeah but I was three inches from achieving my goal and being able to text you and my wife and just and be completely satisfied, but I blew it. And I didn't know if I was going to get another opportunity. But with that said, even after that, I only had that 10 days or 9 days.

And I was telling Cord that I was going to find a way to come back that season. Like I didn't know how I was going to do it. but I told him and I told you, I think over text, once I got on the ridge, I was like, I'm going to come back this season. Because I didn't know if I was going to get another opportunity, but I wasn't done. You were throwing in the towel. No, I didn't want to be done.

Yeah. I just wanted to keep going. But, yeah, we spent that next day trying to do that. And then another day, Cork tried to help me. another day and so this is day three of being out there and the bulls weren't talking and then cord was like i feel like a jackass walking behind you with a tube and the bulls aren't talking he was like so he suggested uh let's do you want to separate and then we'll have a better chance because i was just walking in front of him and he was just walking behind me yeah and then i kind of got my

opportunity and i blew it so he has a tag in his pocket so I don't blame him. Yeah. Like he wants to hunt too. Yeah. Everybody's got dreams. So we separated. And that third day, I was so hot walking around three days is a long freaking time.

And I was getting kind of worn down. Yeah. And I convinced myself that I was in a bad spot. I needed to go back to camp and go to a different place, reset, at camp, whatever. Basically, I was being like weak, weak-minded. I kind of let it get to me. So I drop all the way down, which, I mean, people might think like, oh, you just drop down to the trail. Like, you'll be, you'll be back at camp in 40 minutes. It's like, no, it's like a six-hour thing. Yeah. I'm like coming off of a mountain. So you're really committed to throw it in the towel.

If you drop into the bottom, it's a big thing. You thought about it. You thought about it for a long time. And I even was dropping down. I dropped about a thousand foot. And then I would say, do I want to go down? I was like, I'm not going to come back up here if I go down. And then I was like, no, I'm going to go down.

And then I'd go a little bit further. I stopped even at eight of peaks. And I was like, do I want to go down? And then I was like, I've gone too far. now I'm just going to go down. Is it like 4,000 feet? I mean, it's a drop. If you're at the top, it's a long ways.

Yeah. It's a freaking, it's probably like 3,000. Yeah. But when you're walking with a pack on, like, it takes a grind. It's not like it's a trail. But so I get all the way to the bottom and then I'm walking back. It was once you get to the bottom, it's like a while to get back anyways. And then I see cord.

And he shot a bowl. and I went to go help him. So we go out and help him recover this bull. And I mean, like we talked about, it's a lot of stuff once you kill a bull. So it's nice to have somebody. And I wasn't just going to walk by him. Yeah. And be like, well, he even said.

He didn't even expect me to go. He was like, I don't know what you're doing. If you're going to go hunting. And I was like, no, I'm going to go help you. Yeah. So then we wait and got this bull. and took care of it and hung the meat and everything. And that moment, like, seeing cord with his bull killed a nice six-point bowl,

it was like that I needed it. Like, I needed to see something positive. I needed to see what it was like for someone to hold antlers. Yeah. And, like, accomplish it back there because I was like, I ended up telling them, it sounds shitty, but I was jealous. Like, not jealous in the way like... Just about feeling.

Yeah, not jealous in the way like I want to take it from them. Right. But I want that too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I saw him with it and I was like, I want that so bad. It was like, I feel bad because it was hard for me to enjoy the moment with him just because I wanted it so bad too. Yeah.

And I didn't know if I was going to get it. I know exactly what that. Everybody knows what that's like. But, you know, he accomplished his goal too. So I got to feel good for him. And so I helped him. And I got the spark I needed again. And he gave me all his snacks, which was nice.

And once you got the meat hung, I was like, I'm going back up. And he was like, okay. So they had to pack the meat out on mule. So that's a few day thing. But I was like, I'm going back up on the mountain. And that night, I've. walked all the way back up, which took me, I left at noon, and I got back up there at seven. So it took me a really long time.

Yeah. Because some of that lower stuff, too, is like cliff falls. And it's like, you got pack on and you're all force holding on to stuff. It is kind of dangerous, but got all the way back up there. And then I had the spark I needed again. And so that was good. And then, yeah, hunted for a few more days up there. And I ended up calling in a bowl just with cow calls.

I guess maybe it was random. Who knows? But it was actually a nice bowl. Really? And I was like, I have time. And there's still elk here. Yeah. Like, still a chance.

Yeah. But so I did that for like a few more days. I'm on day five or six or seven now. You're saying positive pretty much that whole time? It was like fleeting, but the mornings would be positive. Yeah. Every morning I got up, I thought I had a chance. And then it gets 90, 90 degrees, 95 degrees.

You've been walking all day and, you know, kind of goes away. Feeling kind of comes back once you eat some food or drink some water. you have a chance again and then I don't know our minds are really weird yeah but that time that i was alone i literally i remember talking to you before i left and even on text messages and you told me just keep moving yeah keep moving so i would be walking and i would just in my head just say keep moving keep moving and i'd just be walking because i mean i didn't really I lack experience, but I felt like I could make up for it with hard work. With work, yeah.

Just by moving. And so that's what I did. And then it's different when you're with somebody. You're not, you kind of talk to them a lot and it's kind of nice and you can distract yourself. But when I was alone and I had nothing to do, I was so committed to anything happening I would stop and eat lunch and I would knock an arrow while I was eating lunch just because I didn't know what was going to happen. Yeah, that's what stood out to me is you were hunting all the time.

You were always engaged. And I told you this too. That is hard. That takes when you're like engaged all day in the mountains, it can be exhausting, like mentally or your nervous system is kind of taxed all the time. you're always like aware and people just don't know what that it's it can be fatiguing because it's like all day you're thinking thinking thinking what can i do what can i do what can i do and it's but that's that's what it takes because most people they just punch out they're like i'm i'm you're going to lay

down for a lot to take a nap and who knows what's going to happen or if they're prepared or not so yeah that's what i was super impressed that yes you were always moving because what I always would say, I would just cover ground. You don't know what's going to happen if you keep moving. But also, I was super impressed that you were just always in the game, you know, at least mentally. Yeah, I mean, specifically one time I set up my camp. Well, there was some clouds rolling in and court had told me stories of like,

you told me stories too, that like that weather can change so fast up there in the mountains that I was we had nice weather so I didn't have to worry about it too much but I did see some clouds so I was like had some daylight then I was kind of thinking about survival stuff so I was like I need to set up my camp real quick while I have light so I set up a tarp because I only had a bivisack and I mean bivisacks are light but your pack can't go in there and then I didn't want a big wet pack had all my clothes in it and stuff so I set this tarp up still had some light And then I kind of called it for the night with about 10 minutes left of shooting light. And I sat down and I took my shoes up.

My feet hurt so bad. I wore really shitty socks. So the bottoms of my toes like didn't have. I was trying to walk so quiet all the time that I was gripping the ground. Yeah. And it like took the skin off the bottom of my toes. So my feet were really tender. So I took my socks and shoes off and I was just sitting there.

And I was like. I have freaking 10 minutes left. And I was on this little flat. So then I just put my boots back on with no socks on. And I just sat on a log looking over this little flat for 10 minutes just until it got dark. And then I went back to what I was doing. But I was like, what if there was a freaking elk that walked by? This could be it.

That could have been it. Yeah. So I don't know. I was just thinking about that stuff a lot. Mm-hmm. And then I didn't kill bull doing that stuff. but uh so i was down to this is seven days seven days this uh probably half of it with cord half with myself and then i had one day left and uh i was just trying to problem solve and i was like i those

those guys are down there. I don't know. Maybe they've heard something or they could point me in the right direction. For the last day. Like I have, I have resources and I haven't tapped into them. Yeah. So I was like,

I'm just going to go back there. But this wasn't, this is a different feeling than I had before. This wasn't a quitting feeling. Right. I was like, I'm going to go back and see if I can get some intel for this last day. Still hopeful.

I was, I mean, I was still hopeful. I wasn't throwing it in yet. But I get back. and they were down there. They just got back from packing the meat out, so they went out,

and then I think they stayed the night at the trailhead, and they packed back in in the morning. And they were just kind of hanging out, and Cord said that I came walking in with my shirt off and shorts on, and he said, I look like a beat puppy. I mean, I honestly had, a week is a long time. time. Yeah. And I was pretty run down. Yeah. Like I had that pack on that entire time. I was tired. I had one peak left, one meal left. I had one Pop-Tart left. And that was all I had. So I was like, yeah. And he was like,

do you want to go out? I had already planned on going out, but he was like, do you want to go out tomorrow? One last ditch effort? He's like, I'll call for you. And I was like, yeah. I was like, let's do it. And then so I stayed the night there for the first time at the main camp. I hadn't stayed there one time. I saw Garrett Downing there and I said, I haven't seen you in a week. Yeah. Because I hadn't.

Yeah. I hadn't seen him in seven days. And then so, yeah, we started in the morning. Cod kind of had a plan. So I was going, I was open to anything. you know oh yeah so i just kind of he let me lead and he wanted to get to the top of this drainage and uh he'll tell you i was i kept sidehilling sidehilling and he he stopped me and he said i know you keep sidehilling he's like but that side hill is not going to get you to the top

any faster he said we need to go up yeah and i was like i know i was just just freaking tired. Yeah. So then we just went straight up. I don't know how far. It was maybe 1,500 feet, but I mean, it was a lot at that point. At that juncture in my life, it was a lot. Yeah, I bet.

And then so we get all the way to the top and we make our way around. And then as soon as we get in there, kind of where we can start doing stuff, Cord wants to rip a bugle and just like over the land, see if anything we'll answer. Locate. it had been a little cooler at night too which was nice like we were thinking you know maybe it could start them yeah and then uh a bull answers in the bottom and and we thought a bull answered about our elevation but over to the left and uh we just kind of sat there and we just listened and uh this bull in the bottom was just going off like unprovoked repeatedly

just bugling, bugling, bugling, bugling. This one to the left would, he might have bugled back two times, but the one in the bottom, you could tell it's like, he was fired up. Yeah, like, we didn't really know why, because court kind of provoked it with his bugle, but then it was like, this thing's going freaking insane down there.

And then so there's like a few key decisions that needed to be made. He was like, it's your hunt. What do you want to do? do and uh i was like i think we put all our eggs in one basket and we go after the one in the bottom knowing once we drop down again that's my week that's it like you're not getting back to the top i'm not going to go back up he caught cord knew that i knew that yeah like i wasn't going to go back up and but i was okay with that i was willing to be as aggressive as possible that last day and so we go after the one on the bottom and then another decision that had to be made was like can we try to pull this

we determined that the bull was on the other side and uh other side of the water the creek and it was like do we want to try to get him fired up have them cross yeah and come towards us because we had good wind obviously we're high thermals were coming up and uh yeah i just i didn't want a chance anything. I just kind of wanted to go. I just wanted to do, try to do everything and completely expend my tank and just like, no, let's cross and go up again and get above him and be on his side. Because I kind of thought I'd watched you a bunch and those bulls like they'll respond pretty much from anywhere, but they won't get as mad or come to you. unless you're close.

Yeah. Because then they're like, well, I guess I got to do something about this now. Yeah. Cross on the creek is going to be a tough, tough ask of a bull. But if you get right above them, now we're talking. Yeah, so we did that. And then we crossed over. It kind of took us a while.

And we got above them. And we kind of were using onyx. Chords really good with onyx and identifying where betting areas are. So, I mean, I was learning that from him too. but we're like, I think he's here. Kind of sounds like he's here. Like a little bench or something? Yeah, you can just kind of tell with the contour lines.

Like it's a bigger opening, which is hard to tell back there because everything's so steep. You see a contour line that's like slightly larger. Spread out. Slightly larger. Yeah. They can't sleep there. Yeah. So we kind of did that.

And then we did a little setup and called and called and called and called and nothing happened. Like how long? I mean, it was like maybe 10 minutes. Fugles or cow calls? A whole smorgas for. Everything. You kind of did it all. But then I look back at court.

He's like 60 yards behind me and he was like, we need to move up. Like go after him. And then we kind of moved up. We even sat down for a second. I kind of thought that was it. Because of bullet, we hadn't heard him. Okay. And then.

So he was going. crazy and then he shut up when he got closer kind of yeah and well i mean we just didn't hear him wasn't there wasn't where he thought he was and then kind of sat down for a second and then uh we decided that well if we're going to go down we might as well hunt through where we think he was or whatever and cord was kind of looking around the face and was like looks like some burnt timber over there and he's looking on onyx he's like i think that could be a good betting area over there too so we can work around and work our way down through that what time was this uh probably two p m okay and then so so we do that make our way around a bunch of windfall it's kind of a pain in the

ass to get through but we finally get over there and then we're just kind of standing there side like shoulder to shoulder and cord lets one bugle go we hadn't heard this bowl in probably over an hour or however much time it took us to get down and around. Were you guys being quiet the whole time kind of? Yeah, we were walking quietly and talking quietly.

So he lets that bugle go and then that bull or yeah, the bull that we were going after just goes off and he's really close. Just an absolute scream. And you guys just scatter just like, holy shit, What'd you do?

No, I was like, I was kind of on this little, we were kind of standing on this little point almost. And to my right was like almost an opening of trees. And there was like a sapling in the middle. But there was like a lot of shooting lanes. And I suggested to court, I was like, you should run up there and call and try to pull them across this opening. Because, I mean, I didn't want him to come right at me. Yeah. So, court friggin sprints up there.

He told me he didn't even get as far as he wanted because this, this bowl was coming. Oh. And I'm like, I mean, you've heard it a million times. It literally could have been a spike walking up. Yeah. And I was going to shoot him. Yeah. I did not.

First wilderness, bow kill, yeah. No, I had no. Yeah, no trophy hunting. No, I was just trying to get experience, you know. Yeah. at an angle from me and I'm like looking down. So he's trying to pull it like in a triangle to pull it by you broadside. Right.

Right. Not lined up where he's pulling the bull right over the top of you, but doing like you should do, make a triangle, pull it by broadside so you get a good shot. Yeah. And we're positioned well because we were uphill from them. So our thermals are still going up. We got good wind. Yeah.

And I'm looking down the hill. Oh, cord runs up there. I immediately dropped to my knees literally right where I was standing. and knock an arrow. And then, I don't know, oh, I ranged, I looked over to that opening and I ranged a tree at 30 and I ranged the sapling at 18. And the way Cord went, I was like, if he walks between there,

it'll be about 25 yards. So I was like, okay, 25, set my dial to 25. And then I'm sitting there and I'm like waiting. And then I'm looking down the hill and I see a body. and I'm like, there's a freaking bull. And then trees are kind of covering it. And then I see his rack. And I was like, oh, my God.

It was like, giant. Yeah, because his right side was to me that had that flyer. You see like any extra. Oh, yeah. If there's any extra stuff on a bowl, it's quite alarming. Yeah. So he was coming up. And I knew he was going to.

going to be coming and the way he was going he was angling away from me further than I wanted and uh it probably would have been kind of a long shot and uh so multiple things are happening in my head i was saying to myself pick a spot i stopped looking at his antlers completely i was only looking at his body and i was just saying pick a spot pick a spot pick a spot sounds corny you might not think i actually did that but i was saying that because is I just coming off of my week, I did not want to blow it. Right. So I was trying to convince myself of that.

This bowl is angling away, probably going to be a difficult quartering away shot at maybe 50 yards. It could be a little further depending on how long it took him to get quartering away from me. Yeah. And Cord is noticing all this from atop the hill and he's laying on his, he's like laying on his side. completely down and he rolls to his left bugle tube on the ground and lets off just a tiny little bugle towards me and the bull is going at an angle and just completely turns perfect going back towards me and it was like super clutch yeah this bull walks up goes straight to that sapling and just starts destroying the sapling just like an act of dominance yeah because i don't think he cared

what made that bugle he was just going to be like he's the biggest bull on the mountain he was just going to be like you're in bugle watch this shit i'm going to put on a show yeah so he just starts tearing up this sapling yeah quartering away from me this i told you the sapling was 18 yards uh i had a lot going through my head so i never touched my dial again so that was still at 25 Yeah. And I shot and it hit high, but I could see, I mean, there was, it was going to be a fatal shot. Yeah. And I was like full, I was fully wild at that point.

Like I was, I told you I was full Comanche. Yeah. And nothing was going to get away from me. So I seized every opportunity. I wanted to be as aggressive as possible. So I had an opportunity and I shot him again. And he went 100 yards and I watched him. I watched him expire.

And then, I mean, it all happened so fast. And I just like looked back up the hill at Cord. And we were just kind of looking at each other. and it was like I'm pretty sure I had tears in my eyes then like it was it was unreal yeah like it was truly unreal

that that had just happened on that day with cord there and uh I mean it's something that I literally I'll never forget it yeah and I think will change it feels like it'll change the trajectory of my life like it's hard to talk about

because I can't even really describe it. Yeah. But yeah. That was... I can't. I think the only people who understand that feeling are people who have been in a situation like that, in the wilderness for that long, with the ups and downs of a bow hunt, and then to kill a giant bull like that with one of your best friends, unless you've been there, it's going to be really hard.

But if you have been there, you know how powerful that is. You know how much that means. And so I can see you. I can see this. You explain this situation so well. I can see it in my mind's eye. And it does. I told you that bull that you killed,

the seven by seven giant biggest bull I've ever seen in that wilderness. It reminds me of when I killed that big mule deer buck with all the guys, there's pictures of it over here with wayne and roy and duane and jeff and uh it did change everything because then it was like i wrote about that i wrote the story this is like some premier animal you know third year bow hunting and uh didn't deserve it but it happened it's like it did change to the trajectory that was like my signature kill right out of the gate and that's what this reminds me of for you so who knows where it leads but right now it's a big big deal. And right then it was a big deal. I can't imagine how you felt. No, and like the, I mean,

you know me so and you know my personality. Like I'm not, I'm not here talking about it because I think I'm a good hunter or like I'm an elk guy now. Like it was amazing. I do think a lot of it was luck. A lot of it, court is a way better elk hunter than me. Like he, and I couldn't have done it without him. I literally couldn't have done it. He did a lot of stuff. It's really nice having another guy there with you to bounce ideas off of because you're like, should we do this? And you're like, no, well, what about this? And so having him there was really nice. He's really good with a bugle tube. He saved my ass in that situation. Yeah. So, I mean, if he wasn't there, I would have, have no kill. Secondly, people might think it's weird, but I still, at nighttime, I watch a lot of

YouTube. I like watching hunting videos, but I like watching the old ones with you and Roy and, you know, Pioneer Peak. But anyways, last night, I watched the tribute, the Tenzing one, the Moose Hunt. That's like one of my favorite ones. I think the video is done really well. But in that video, you were socked in and you couldn't glass, and it just stuck out of my mind. You said, I've killed a lot of animals, and it's not because I'm a good hunter. It's because I'm stubborn, and I will go out,

even if the conditions are bad. And I felt like I could, like, connect with that. because I was just going to be out there. And I mean, you get lucky if you're out there. Yeah, you never know. Which is cool. Just like, if you just don't stop, it could happen. You don't know.

Like it could happen. And it happened for me. Like I got lucky. And I see the only thing that I didn't, that wasn't luck is I just kind of, I guess I kept my shit together a little bit and I was able to kill them, which is cool but that bull walking up as big as he is you can't convince me it is in a little bit of luck but i don't really give a shit like i'll take it yeah i'll take it it's not like i it's not like it was easy no like i did i did work the whole if you put the whole week together i did work really

hard for that bull that situation specifically i think there was a little bit of luck i think there There's a lot of experience with cord. Yeah. And I was able to kind of seize it. And, yeah, I don't know. I'm just really, really grateful and happy for it. And yeah, I don't know. Seems kind of surreal.

I mean, I know when you said that picture, like I said, I was just like blown away. So it does seem real or I mean surreal. but yeah I mean there's times so you say you got lucky which I don't know I don't know what luck means back there because there's times when I've shot at animals where I did everything right everything perfect and something just goes wrong was that bad luck or is that just what happens just that's not just life in the wilderness sometimes it works Sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes it's good. You could call it good luck. You could call it bad luck. But I've blown it where I did everything perfect in either a limb or a who knows what. The wind swirls. Is that bad luck? That just happens. Shit happens.

You're 20 yards from an animal. The wind swirls before you can pull back, they're gone. Bad luck or just bow hunting. So I totally get what you're saying. And I love how you deflems. And I love how you, it's important for us to give our hunting partners credit because it is, a hunt in the wilderness is a team. So I do, I understand what you're doing.

And I love it and I respect it. And it's great to give credit to others. And yeah, good luck, bad luck. I don't know. You guys killed four bowls. You killed a giant. Everybody, you know, did what they had to do. And it's just incredible.

And it's, you know, you've had some history in that wilderness. I hold you back there when were you seven? Yeah, first time. So it's amazing to think about those. I still remember we're sitting on a log by the fire there down kind of by a bunch of mosquitoes down in the bottom of that meadow. And you were kind of sunburned, pretty miserable, pretty little. And I just remember that and now to think of now and, you know, how much you've changed and like the total bookends from that experience to where you are now.

And it's like, it's just cool to think of. I cried for my mom. What on this trip? No, on that seven-year-old trip. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I remember, I think you said that you were, when was that at night or was it following me? You know, I was following you. There was, there was elk right next to us and I was crying.

Like, I don't think people realize a seven-year-old back there? Yeah. God, that was brutal. Yeah. I had a pack. Twelve miles back. I actually had gear in my pack. It's not like I had a toy pack on.

I was actually had survival stuff. Yeah. As a seven-year-old. Yeah. But I don't know. It kind of all comes full circle. you learn experiences and yeah um i just want to say another thing too like we're on the side of that mountain and having a cord there to help take care of that bull was like so great and then

we took a load down and uh my pack was up i had like a day pack on yeah so i couldn't even hardly haul meat i just put a ham over my shoulder but i was like i got a great like, I got to go back to camp and get my good pack. The one I had been using all week is the actual one with the pack frame. And we went back, told Garrett what had happened. He had already taken his creek bath and told him what happened. And he immediately grabbed his pants and boots and pack and walked all the way back up there with us.

And he hauled a shoulder out. And he didn't have to do that. Yeah. And there was no if, if, hands or butts, he was ready to go. He had hunted all week too. Uh-huh. So he went and helped cord hauled more meat than I did. So it's not even his bull.

He had two heavy loads cool out of there. And then we got it taken care of. I carried the head and hide, which was an ordeal. Yeah. And then got it down there and hung. And then those guys packed it out the next day. I mean, we were leaving. Yeah.

So we packed everything out. But, I mean, those guys had a rodeo too, getting that stuff out. I mean, it's a lot of meat. Because you walked, right? Yeah, I walked out. And that's just another thing that I couldn't have done without those guys. Yeah. They freaking pack that bull out.

Yeah. And absolute giant rainstorm on the way out. And Garrett at the trailhead when they finally got out of there, I beat him by like three hours because dealing with that meat was so hard. But they got out. And Garrett was literally the exact. same personality, absolutely soaking wet. The exact same personality like he was just at, I don't even know. Pizza? Yeah, at pizza. Yeah, that's, that's a special group of people. I was telling court, I was like, Garrett is tough as shit. Yeah. He was like, he loved it. Yeah.

He absolutely loved the wilderness and being on horseback or on mule back. Yeah. I don't know. Just really Really thankful for those guys and they help me out a lot in all aspects. Yeah, I've always said like in the wilderness back there, you're either going to love it or you're going to hate it. And those guys love it. And if you hate it, that's very evident too. But it's very evident that they love it. They're hard workers, tough kids, tough young men.

I mean, not kids. I'm old so I can say kids. But tough young men. And yeah, they didn't. just love it. And you can't simulate that. You can't pretend that. You can't, if you don't love it, you can look at somebody and be like, they're never coming back. But Garrett, Brody, Cord, they love it. They're back. Every year killing, I mean, now Cord's killed what, three bulls back there? Yeah. Pretty impressive. He was like, we want to get all those bowls out there and

all hold our racks and take pictures of this one year. And I was like, that'd be really cool. Oh, that'd be sick, dude. It's so amazing to go four for forward with archery. I mean, success rates with, again, people who don't know, you don't know, but it's about 6%. Six percent of hunters kill a bull every year with a bow. And you guys went 100%.

Crazy. That is one thing. I told myself I was going to mention this. is some guys aren't as lucky to I'm not going to say that I couldn't have done this without my wife because I think I could. But having an old lady that wants you to chase passions and is okay with you being gone and is supportive is a lot. And I do appreciate Candace for doing that. Yeah. She wanted me to achieve my.

goal and was totally okay with me being gone for weeks. So I mean that was cool. I didn't have to worry about that like I got to get home like yeah that does weigh on on guys back there which as you attested you got plenty weighing on you already. So if you have issues at home dude it's going to be impossible back there and we have a little baby too and so she was doing that stuff on her own so thank you. She's a hard worker. I mean she's like cooking. and sourdough shit bringing stuff over here all the time. No, she's a grinder. Yeah, she works her ass off.

But she supports, you know, your dreams. And that's huge, you know. And not everybody has that. So we do have to feel lucky. Yeah, no, very lucky. You can't, you can't be successful. I mean, you could, again, theoretically, just like I talked about, like,

you could pack out a bull by yourself and 80 miles. You could. But, man, it makes it a lot nicer when you have support at home, when you have friends that can help, got pack animals at all. Nothing's impossible, but man, makes it a lot nicer when it works out

and you got support. But that is a hell of a first wilderness bow hunt. I'll tell you that. But how did that, tell me how that, so then we kind of bookend it a little bit,

with my wilderness hunt that I just did. And I'm going to do a recap on that. But one thing that I'm very thankful of is you were able to go with me on this wilderness hunt and not just be there with me, which of course as a father is very powerful to have my son there. But the guys that came in that helped us, tell me how that type of, those type of people, they sound like kind of similar to Cord and Garrett and Brody. but what is that how do you look at other guys like that like the guys who came in to help me pack out

my bowl on my wilderness hunt cow eric vander zan i always vander zandon vander zandon uh let's see keith and ryan yeah tell me about them oh i mean they're just tough dudes yeah cow halliday was i didn't say his last name But yeah, just great guys. Yeah, you can, I don't know, you killed that bull and literally could not be any lower of elevation. It was a hole. And, you know, it's a daunting task to get a bull like that out of there.

He's freaking huge. His body was huge. Yeah. There's only four of us. But those guys came on the drop of a hat. So we had, just to recap, we had me, you heard bull Gideon. That was our four.

Yeah. Which theoretically, yes, we could have got the bull out. But Cal did tell me when I went in there for opening weekend, he's like, hey, he goes, if you kill a bull, he goes, I could have four guys there in five hours. He goes, well, we'd love to help you.

So this was a few weeks ago, he said this. And I was like down at the bottom, we got that bull killed at the very, very He bought him. Thickest, like, mess ever. But the bull's dead. And where he's dead is where he's dead. But I said, hey, we had a packer that could conceivably come in or could call Cal.

So Wayne said, what do you want to do? And I'm like, I'd rather have a bunch of cool guys come in here, badasses. And as a team, get this out of here. So let's let's give Cal a call. So Wayne was trying to figure out. his in reach got a text out to cal and uh by this time it's nine or 10 at night by the time we got this bull done so nine or 10 at night and uh you know wayne says can't kill a bull can you guys come in gave him i think a pin drops when you send that text with the in reach so they knew where we

were and cal says yeah we'll be there at eight in the morning and to get there at eight in the morning meant they had to get up i think at 315 3 3 30 something like that because they're you know enterprise they're a ways away and they said they'd be there at eight in the morning this is miles into the wilderness and a long way from where they live at before eight you could hear voices and we're just like holy shit how are these kids here and they show up at 801 in the middle of nowhere it's like and just busted out of the brush and it's like and I think you you mentioned this, but these are the guys who you want to see busting out of the brush. Because you look at them and you're like, we got some fucking studs on the scene now.

Yeah. But pretty sick, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, you just, you're like, oh, these guys can pack. We're good to go. Can packs some me. Yeah. They just got like the mountain build. Yeah.

You know, just pretty ripped dudes. Yeah. Good, good attitudes. I mean, they came down the hill hooping and hollering. Yeah. They're like, we got a. we have an eight o'clock meeting i think this appointment appointment yeah absolutely game changer having those guys and and what i said too is like as good a mood as they were in even in getting

up at three in the morning whenever it was all those miles to get in there took them an hour and a half is like in a straight downhill like thousands of feet down but the attitude they showed up with we had to pack that bowl miles and thousands of feet out of there and hung out all day, took care of this meat, broke down Wayne's camp. So if you went from the first time we saw him at 8 a.m. till the last time, which is close to 8 p.m. probably, their attitude never changed. But during that time carrying hundreds of pounds of meat, thousands of feet up and miles out, attitude exactly the same, just as positive, hooping and having just as much fun,

every second of that process that is rare yeah i mean you can tell they they live for it like it's it's all they care about the i mean the mountains and hunting and elk and big horns is their life it's it scores and this bowl and glassing from this place and packing in this place and 200 days and erics like out in the out in the field 200 days a year it's like these guys it's also nice having them because I'm the kind of guy who has a pack and deals with stuff being really shitty on the pack, like, just uncomfortable. Yeah. I'm like, oh, that's how the pack is.

It's just an uncomfortable pack. Yeah. But Eric was taking off male and female ends and changing them and made your pack actually pretty legit. Yeah. And I was like, well, I've never even thought about that. No, I've never changed buckles. No.

I'm just like you. I'm just like, whatever. I don't give a fuck. I'll just make it work. But it sure is nice having it. You know, because I had the antlers, they were kind of leaning to the right, to the right. They kept, and something was fucked up with a pack, but he, Eric was obsessed with like, oh, God, this is driving me crazy because the antlers kept leaning to the right a little bit.

But, uh, I mean, all that is just a testament to how much he has packed. Yeah. Like, you don't just get good at that stuff. Right. A couple times. Like, the guy has packed a lot of meat. Yeah. And that's who you want.

Well, and even we show up there. And by this time, I was fucking tired. I mean, breaking down that bowl, I got up in the morning and I took some more meat off. You didn't want to be asleep when they showed up. I wasn't going to be asleep at eight. So got up, but I had to get, there's some more meat I wanted to get off there because I just remember there's a little bit of neck meat. There's a couple of ribs I hadn't taken out. And so I wanted to get that cleaned up.

I wanted to clean up the skull. but I was like pretty much okay I'm done yes I could do more um weighing boned out the the hind quarters did we didn't bone out the front shoulder shoulders which I was just like kind of tapped out I'm like we're just going to get this out of here I'm done with working on this thing but those guys came in fresh and they're like cows you know they said hey do you want cow to to take the bones out of the front shoulder he's like really fast at it or whatever and I'm like I don't go ahead You know, and then Keith, I think, said, hey, do you mind if I take this bottom jaw off the skull? And I'm like, why his knife kept, you know, is one of those replaceable blades.

So I ended up getting my elk skinner out to get that bottom, finish getting the bottom jaw off. But point is, is those guys were still down to like, hey, let's do this right, you know, even though I was kind of tapped out there. Like, we can make this easier. And that's just kind of what they do. because to do as much as they do back there and take clients out and do all this, they're just so used to that. It's like, no, we're going to, this is how we do it. This is the standard.

And they have a standard. They're young men, badasses that have a very high standard. And I just love to see it. It's, uh, it's, I remember Cal back from the eye fish days on, this is old forum. People have talked shit about me back, you know, they have forever, but he would always have my back 20 years ago. And then to see them like now be such capable, they're family men now, they got kids,

they're just hardcore badasses, but to just know of them for so long and then to see them in action and see how capable and how tough they are. And then you too and then with James and then we get the Herd Bull, we had generations of people that love the map. mountains and are studs. And it just was incredible.

I just loved it. Loved every minute of it. Yeah. I mean, I said it 100 times that I'm not a podcast or a camera guy. I had thought about it a lot. And I do think documentation is important. I mean, it's the reason why I want to do this stuff is because I read old stuff and I watch old videos and I think it's important to hold on to these memories

whether spoken or written or the photos captured like I do want to do my part and I don't want to forget for myself like I want to keep this stuff alive yeah yeah I don't know I mean I did for my hunt I did write an article about it too uh I don't know if it'll go anywhere but it's just just for myself and memories and it's just important. Oh, we're sharing it. And this year, and this year alone, 2025, it was really special for me with that, with my bowl, and then you drawing Winaha and me being able to go and you killing that bowl and me being there for it.

It was like, I don't, I don't know if I'll ever top it, but I am okay talking about it. Yeah. you know it's it was a i mean it was an insane year it's really special pretty crazy that i mean yeah we were able to you know to kill two great bowls with archery equipment i mean it's got to feel really lucky um to your point on the on the documenting it um it's no difference i i kind of been struggling with there god i got shit in my throat but uh We got, you know, we get criticized a little bit these days. Some people are just retarded and don't want people to share, you know, their hunting

experiences with the general public. But it's so important to do it to celebrate what we do and to celebrate the moments that we've just described. Because if we don't talk about it, who know, who would ever learn or, you know, you said yourself, you've been learning from these videos and reading. and all these things. And that's what happens. So back in a million years ago,

guys would draw on the cave, the hunt, right? Then when I came up, it was magazines and books. And then it got into YouTube. And then it got into different things on outdoor channel or maybe outdoor channel than YouTube. But the point is we've always shared, men have always shared their adventures, right? That's just what we do.

This is, oh, we're going to cross. the ocean and discover new lands. Oh, we're going to go hunt here. But we're going to, we're going to talk about it. We're going to share it. So that's all we're doing. We have the phones now. We have, you know, incredible photographers like James out there capturing these moments, but we're still documenting it. We're still sharing it. We're still, yeah, we might have a little video because the phones are capable of it. So we got different content, but it's no different than thousands of years ago sharing it. It's just a different media and or a different way to share it. But it's still just as important because those stories around the campfire, that's what we're doing right now.

Is this a campfire? Is this a campfire? Yeah, essentially. And we're sharing what happened. It's no different than what we've always done. But we have to do it to keep this life. Otherwise, people quit talking about it. They forget.

It's just like, hey, did remember that one guy who used to hunt? You ever hear anything? Whatever happened? Do people still hunt? Don't know, never hear about it. Well, we're going to talk about it. So I love that, yeah, I know you haven't been like the big share everything, but I'm so thankful that you wanted to talk about or were willing, not didn't want to, you weren't

begging me, but you're willing to talk about it. And I love how you, you know, gave credit to all the guys and they deserve it. But I just love that you talked about it and you could share. I think people really appreciate your honesty and you, I'm not going to say vulnerable. I hate that word these days. But you were just like very real about how you felt. And when you felt like you failed, you're real about describing that. When you fell you succeeded, you're real about describing it.

And mostly it's like to give other people credit. But point is, it's like you're talking about it. And I'm very thankful for that. And people need to hear this. Because they want to hear, they've seen you guys grow up your whole life. They haven't heard from you like they have Truitt. You know, so I'm very, you know, Truitt has his own thing he's doing. He's kicking ass.

But to share this with you and to have you, you know, the fact is, and like you wouldn't mention it and nobody might not know, but you had probably 120 pounds coming into that hole. And you never said it, never said one thing about it. People do that stuff, but they make sure everybody knows they got a lot of weight. You never, never mentioned it. So like what I saw from you in the wilderness and in the mounds was somebody at home, somebody at home with hard work, never got rattled, never was out of sorts in any way.

And that's what it takes. So you, you know, that, that bull is incredible. But what I saw mostly was somebody who loves the mountains. And yeah, we bow hunt. That's what we do. We kill things if we can, you know, to get the meat. That's just how it works. But before all that, you have to be okay suffering, being out there, being uncomfortable.

And you are. And that's what I saw. That's what I loved about it. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of guys. that that did stuff in the in the army kind of struggle with it but you get that's kind of your personality for so long well you don't need you don't need a personality because like you're they give

you one your job or your title is like which is fine and it was fine at that point of my life but you get out and you don't have that title anymore and you kind of look you search for something to fill it and it can it can be hard like it i mean i'm not going to say like i haven't had my my struggles because i have and uh would you mean out of the army or in the army or what yeah i mean both yeah both but you're just always kind of looking for something to fill the place of that because that was honestly a really big time of my life and it's some of the toughest guys i've ever met and uh you know it's kind of hard to move past something that big Yeah. You just kind of think about it constantly and you know guys don't call you that anymore or it's not it's just not you anymore which can be kind of a tough pill to swallow. But the this wilderness hunting and the mountains feel similar. And it's kind of filled. I don't know. It's kind of filled that spot and I just.

I can't stop thinking about it. Yeah. You know, it's. Yeah, I get what you're saying. Like when in the army, it's all about, you know, the guy next to you. And then, you know, they kind of, they kind of belabor that point. Like, hey, you got to die for this guy. This guy would die for you.

This is, you're together, right? This is all part of how it works. And then you get out and you're by yourself. And so it's like having that worst. a connection with your brother or some other badass because now you're just like out on your own and it's really hard to find because it's like it's really easy to respect badass men but in regular life they're not everywhere in the wilderness yeah you found some more and i think that's a men just want to have guys they respect they don't want to have they want to be around

people they have a connection with like that. So whether it was military or now it's wilderness mountain hunting, there's that connection with badasses. And it's just like I think some men need that. Some men need other shit. I don't know what they need. But it's a big deal. Yeah.

It's a big deal. And I'm, you know, I don't know. I think people, yeah, they've wanted to hear your perspective on a lot of stuff for many years. but yeah, I don't know. I'm super, super appreciative for this discussion. Gideon, do you have any questions over here? I do have some questions.

Uh-oh. I want to share a quote from Dwight Shue, who's obviously an outdoor writer, and he kind of talked about luck too. Luck is not something you hope for in hunting. It is something you earn through long days, quiet steps, and respect for the land and animal. you feel like that kind of wraps up how you feel about this luck that you talk about?

I mean, that's written way more poetically. But yeah, I mean, I'm not, I don't discredit myself as far as hard work. Because I do know, I told you about it. Like, I know I worked hard. I think the animal that emerged from the timber, That could be luck because he was big. Yeah. But, I mean, getting there to that point, I don't know.

I don't know if you get kind of rewarded, if the mountains reward you. Universe kind of rewards hard work sometimes. I mean, it's, I always think that the more, well, and it's like a famous saying, but the harder you work, the luckier you get. And it's just, I think the universe does reward hard work. can be impositive. Yeah, I was curious. Like, what do you think prepared you the most for the wilderness?

Do you think it was the army? Or do you think it was how you grew up? What prepared you? Because most people don't have that type of success in the wilderness their first year. Not even just on your killing, but like you on my hunt and just being so at home in that type of suffering. So what, why are you so successful? well i mean i kind of mentioned it to wayne and i was like all those guys that i worked with uh in the army i was like would be totally fine out here which i mean balls deep in the wilderness

with the bivisack and mountain houses like those all those guys would be totally fine i'm not saying they they would kill bowls because that's like knowledge and skill set Yeah. But as far as living, like surviving. They'd be totally fine. Yeah. Just because they're comfortable being uncomfortable.

Right. Like I said, that's like a, if you're not worried about that, then you can think about other stuff. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that helped me a lot. Yeah. I would agree with that.

Speaking of mountain houses. Mary Kill. Chicken Alfredo, biscuits and gravy, and chicken pesto. but it's peak not Mountedhouse but yeah well I'm gonna kill Pesto yeah that gonna kill Pesto gonna kill Pesto uh I'm probably gonna make sweet to Alfredo and I'll marry biscuits and gravy yeah that chicken Alfredo I could eat that every day back there oh we ate it cold

we did we're so I'm so hungry so hungry so hungry so hungry agree. I mean, you don't even need to heat those things up. It was still good. It was still crunchy. We didn't even wait. Just put a little water in there. No, it was like clumps of sand for chicken. I'd do it again. Oh, it was really good. Yeah. We split that one after I passed up that, that bowl when you were filming and, uh, um, yeah, it was great. I mean, cold, crunchy. Yeah, whatever, a peak. Uh, But chicken off rateo, it's definitely the one. You anything else? Yeah, last question.

So last night we were recording Shataka's Weekly that we're going to have to redo. But you were talking about, I don't know, it seemed like you got a little emotional thinking about your son who had success and found this calling. Tanner, you talked about it after the army, but found the success in a place you really cut your teeth. So as a family from generation to generation, how does that make you feel? And more specifically, kind of about this legacy that you're leaving and your son who has now found the same success and the same place. Ah, God, I can't even put it into words. You know, it's what any father wants is for their son to care about the same things they care about. Um, as far as a wilderness goes, um, specifically after you hit that one in the shoulder blade,

I was like, I even said it here. I'm like, I just want, there's so much pressure, not only to to perform back there, to survive back there, to do everything, but then even, because I've written books about it and even, you know, this is what I do. And I was just like, it was so hard that failure. I just was like, please, I don't want it to end with that. I don't want that to be your trip, right? Because it's, I just know how mentally daunting it can be back there. And then when you get out, there's only, there's two answers to the question.

Did you kill? Yes or no. And no, it doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter what happened. It's just no. No, I didn't. And that hurts. And I just did not want you to have to like deal with, you know, busting your ass for that long,

having an opportunity, not be able to cash in on it. And then that's it. And then to come back and be like, I had a chance and I blew it and have to live with that. So I was so thankful that it turned out. it could have been is like we couldn't even a dream we couldn't dream that it was going to turn out as well as it did with with four bowls on a seven by seven and all that and and couldn't even a dream that wouldn't even be a realistic dream but i'm so thankful it worked out because just like i i didn't deserve that buck up there but i got it and it changed everything so right now the game is like all the cards on the table who

knows what's going to happen because you, you know, you got that bull killed, you got on the ground, you overcame the failure, you entered on success. We had another great wilderness hunt. So now it's like, it's all gravy. It's all good. But it was as a dad being out of state, not being there, hearing like the ups and downs. It was hard. It was hard for me because all I want, all any dad wants is for their kids to succeed. And it's not like your little kids. it's like but nothing changes i wanted you to succeed when you were seven years old playing basketball and i want you to succeed now so to see that as a father it just means everything and then to have a be something you know this isn't like winning

pinewood derby as a cub scout this is a big deal and to have a be so worthwhile i mean i've been proud of you for a lot of things you've done but this is just the latest in it it's It's incredible. I wish, if I could wish anything, it would be that every father could feel the pride and just how, you know, how proud I am of you. I wish everybody could know what this feels like because it's like, it's incredible.

I'm very happy, very happy for you and very happy mostly that you found this passion because, as you said, you had in the army, but then some people go through life they never know they never have that thing that like i want to have a passion i want to i want to care about something so much i want to care about something that you like they'll say to me like you care about bow hunting so much i want that i want to know what that is so to hear you talk about the mounds and in these experiences and like how much you care about it and that's everything because some guys never find it and it's a big deal it's a big deal

to have something bigger than yourself. Yeah. How did that sound? Good. That's it. That's it? How long was our podcast? Hour 50.

Ooh, shit. Pretty good. How do you think? How do you feel about it? I don't know. It's live. We did that live, didn't we? Yeah.

Yeah. So it's up. Delete it. No. All right. Well, I mean, man I'm yeah I want to talk about Winnihan more but we're going to do that on the recap that was such a fun trip also I wasn't on your wilderness trip but thank you for doing this

great job and keep crammer and selective thanks guys let me know what you think of the podcast leave a whatever review whatever they say like and subscribe yeah like and subscribe.