Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 155 - Speedland Boots

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

New Boot Goofin? Join us for a conversation about Speedlands NEW boots, trial and tested through harsh mountain conditions by Cam Hanes over the last year. Speedland - a premium trail running shoe brand founded in 2021 by former Nike and Under Armour designers Dave Dombrow and Kevin Fallon. Based in Portland, Oregon, the company focuses on creating high-performance footwear for trail and ultra running, emphasizing innovation, durability, and customization without compromises driven by mass production or cost-cutting. Their mission is to build "the best possible trail running shoes in existence" in limited quantities, drawing inspiration from elite athletes and specific terrains across the U.S. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes  Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/  Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com  Follow Speedland: https://www.instagram.com/runspeedland/  Timestamps: 00:00:00  Testing New Shoes & Helping Cam at Cocodona 00:05:39  Working with Big Brands vs Running the Brand as a Founder 00:09:10  Tough Conditions, Blisters, & Human Performance  00:18:08  Connecting with People at Races: 2025 Races 00:20:31  The NEW Speedland Boot: XB:BLK 00:32:44  NEW: GS:BLK Running Shoe 00:34:51  Products & Finding a Balance with Perfecting the Details 00:37:24  Speedlands Culture & Focus of Branding 00:40:13  The Effect of Tariff's and Speedland’s Mission in Quality 00:42:27  Speedland Athletes 00:47:41  Goals: The Future of Speedland 00:49:55  Final Thoughts

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Just go to MountainOps.com and use code cam at checkout. This season, don't settle for sluggish. Ignite the hunt. This is the Keep Hammering Collective and with my friends from Speedland. How's it going, guys? Dave and Kevin. Great to be back. We are.

We got so much exciting stuff to talk about, don't we? Absolutely. What's it like running a running shoe brand right now? Ooh, that's a tough one. It's challenging. Yeah. Yeah. Can you hear that the audio okay?

Should we get it closer? It's kind of in the middle. If they want to scoot closer, it would be better. We'll scoot a little closer. You're trying to do this here. You're like, they're like stepbrothers. You want to sit behind him? I'm okay where I am right now.

Yeah. Pan, pan? Are you saying pan? Is that what it is? But no, yeah, so what's it like? What's it like out there? Yeah, it's challenging. It's great.

You know, it's super rewarding. It's wonderful to connect with the running community and to be at the events and, you know, what the runners are doing is amazing in this space. I think there's really edge of human performance happening, so that's what really thrills us. The business side is challenging. You know, tariffs make it challenging. Competition.

A lot of new brands. A lot of new brands. And even the established brands are stepping it up, I think, with the news of, you know, how big trail is becoming. Oh, what was that $20 billion or so? What was that thing? I was like, where is all this money? I know.

It's pretty good. Pretty nutty. You know, it is growing and it's healthy for sure, but it's still so much smaller than its road counterpart that it's kind of funny when people get so amped up on the size of it. But, you know, all of those things make it challenging. And great, the competition. Which is great at the same time.

We like the competition. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's that high tide rises all boats. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's fun to see even to a small extent the influence that we've had on the market in some extent. you know, do zone fit systems are pretty common now. And, you know, there's things that we brought in that are becoming standard.

And so, you know, it's validation at some level. Yeah. But we do love the competition. That's what makes great for the consumer. And it keeps us sharp as well. I think our attitude is just like stay ahead, right? Just keep innovating. Don't really look behind.

Don't worry if someone's copying us or whatever. Just stay ahead of the group. Yeah. No, I get that. Yeah. We can't be worried about that. that stuff. No, because I know like in a race when you start looking and starts looking behind, you're like, gotcha. Right. So yeah, it's a, I don't know, I think that's a good approach.

But it is an exciting time. I see and hear a lot of people interested in trail and ultras and getting in the mountains and there's a lot to learn out there for people and it's cool to be part of it, you know. And I do see a lot of speedlands out there on my, in my little. world here so that's pretty exciting yeah it's wonderful to see more and more product out there at these events and yeah you know again great chance for us to interact with with people and get their stories and hear what they love about us and and sometimes what they don't that helps us be better as well well I we macy we need to pull in some clips here yeah you need those road shoes you want to back on for this stretch yeah I think so off socks off and take a look at what's going on yeah

You guys helping me at Kocodona was so incredible. I mean, I was so thankful. I don't know if I said I was thankful at that time, but I'm like looking back now, you guys like played a huge part in my success out there at Kocodona. And of course, the shoes, but just you guys personally. And to have the founders of the company out there and just doing the dirty work out there, like part of my crew essentially is just incredible. And I'm, I mean, it meant a lot to me.

And I wanted to tell you guys, thank you for that. Oh, yeah. Like they said, it's our pleasure to be out there. And that's, we can't imagine not, not being out there and being a part of it when we have an opportunity to, because that's how you, you learn so much and you really get to see how deep somebody's digging. Oh, man. And what, what people go through on the emotional scale.

Harts. Yeah. It's a little beyond hurt, even. Yeah. And that goes with the. product as well. We really, you were testing a product at Leadville and that gave us great information on how to make that product better. Confirmed. Yeah, Leadville or Cocodona. Cocahondo. Yeah. The shoe's called the Leadville. So I got a confused. Yeah. But yeah. Coming in the future. Not out yet. It's a spring model. But, you know, we were hoping to have that shoe out this fall. That was our original intention. Oh, okay. But learning what we learned at

Coca-Dona. It really showed us, hey, we weren't quite ready. That's a big part of how we learn and how we make the product the best it can be. That's kind of how we work when people ask, why isn't it, you know, say the shoe that you were wearing, why isn't it out yet? Yeah. Well, that's kind of like we don't, we won't put anything out until we feel like it's ready. And often it has to go through a test. It doesn't always go through cocadona, but it goes through something. Right. And so we're excited. That'll come out next year. And, we're excited. Yeah.

Well, how, so I'm curious, you guys have worked at all the big brands, or not all of them, but most of the big brands. How is it different? Because you talk about like we don't want to put anything out too soon or whatever. Is it different being the founders of a company as opposed to working for the big brands? Like, how's your approach? Completely different. Is it?

It is very different. Yeah, I think at a big brand, one year under the pressure of that seasonal calendar. every year you've got to have product ready for spring summer and then again fall winter and it's just it's a relentless product cycle and it has an effect in terms of how big of a risk most teams are willing to take with the product if it's something really new and you have to have it for a season that's tough to get everybody aligned on that because getting ready for commercialization is no small thing in a big company and if there's still questions about how something's going to perform or the durability they probably won't do it so it just it kind of forces a more

conservative approach to product in general. And even within that, oftentimes there isn't enough time to do the proper testing so something gets out and it might not be better than the previous version. It's different, but doesn't always satisfy that box. Is it better than what came before it because of that relentless cycle? So that's one of the big differences for us. We're really not operating on seasons. We know what the athletes need based on feedback. Like, hey, missing something here or this could be better. And so we're constantly doing that. But when we test something like at Kocodona,

we're looking like, hey, did it work? Did it cross that threshold if we're ready to bring it to market? If it didn't, then we're going to go back and fix it. And I would just say we generally can work much faster than the big brands because we're making real-time decisions. Yeah. Right? Like we're literally, we're with you at Kocodona on the course.

we might actually make decision right then. We're seeing something and be able to affect a future iteration. Like we're not waiting weeks and having a back and forth. It's quick. So that's a very different way of working than maybe how a big brand might work. Yeah. I wouldn't see, I didn't see Phil Knight out there. Was he out there?

I don't think he made Coca-a-Donough this year. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. it's and I think also I think those big brands once they once it's on the calendar to come out it's coming out usually you know it's just like and they like with under armor they would ask me some things and some things that as I've talked about here never happened no changes I said oh this one thing we got to fix didn't get fixed and boot still came out so it's like what do I mean sometimes you think like do they even listen where you guys definitely listen you know you're out there not

not only listening, but you're just, you're seeing for yourself. So it's so much different. But I do understand how that can affect, you know, how quick things come out. But when it does come out, it's going to be quality and people can count on it or trust it. So that's important. That's the most important thing. You know, we, you develop a trust with the customers you do have and they expect certain things and you want, you got to deliver that to them.

You can't give it to them and say, well, this will be good, but it's not going to last quite as long for this and that reason. that just doesn't work. Yeah. And that's part of the brand that we've built, and we want to stay behind that and deliver, over deliver on the performance

and the durability. Yeah. No, I think you guys have. You know, people who watch a Kocodona film, my feet did get torn up. You know, as I explained there, it was more, more weather-related than shoe or foot-related. Because, like, at Leadville,

I didn't have one anything. One blister. nothing, but it was dry. You know, it was a dry course. We had a couple river crossings, but I think I changed out after that. But my feet were 100% fine. So it's just the conditions at Kocodona, man, they were tough. And it seems like they had those same conditions at Moab just recently with the mud.

With Eli and Goggins, they were out there. Yeah, you saw pictures of their feet and then lays too, right? Yeah. If your feet are soggy and you're running constantly for days, I think there isn't a shoe that can really help that situation. The skin gets soft. Yeah, it gets torn up. There's so much friction, it's going to get torn up.

So there were some ugly shots and just another testament to grinding it through that pain. I mean, blisters are pretty brutal. Yeah, I mean, most people, they get a blister and they're, you know, like these ladies where their high-heeled shoes get a blister, it's like a big deal. It's like it's because blisters do suck. You know, I mean, you get a little blister on your pinky toe like in normal life. You're like, oh, but in these races, I'd take a blister on my peter. Is that all I got?

Okay. That's fine. You know bones sticking out? We're good. Quite a few blisters that we were working on in Coco. Oh, that was that was so fun. I mean, well, I don't know about fun. It's fun now, right?

Looking back. Yeah. I mean, the experience is life changing, but man, those, I just can't believe. You know, it's not like I've done a. million of them but I've done enough to you forget and then you get back in it and you're like holy shit what am I doing this these are so freaking hard and yeah I don't know respect to the guys who are doing the triple crown and things like that yeah for sure I mean it's that's what it's so interesting you know marathon used to be the long distance you're crazy doing a marathon

and then you know now to see where it's gone or where it's probably going then that's I say it without any hyperbole. It really is edge of human performance. What can the human body do? How much can you take? I know. And the mix of the nutrition, the psychology,

the fitness. I mean, there's so many aspects to it. And they all need to go well to finish a race like that. It's weird. Humans, I mean,

such an, we're an incredible species, but like when you think of it, like, I'm old. You guys know that. I got 58, this old.

But it used to be, if you see a 58 year old, that was an old man, right? And I can still train like I'm, I don't even feel that. I don't, there's days, I don't feel that old. I feel good. Yeah. It's just crazy. So when you talk about like the edge of human potential, but we're like, we're improving as a species just with diet and with just this knowledge and science and supplements and

this training modalities and just like learning more about it, the show. choose, everything. Everything. It's crazy. So it's exciting to think what is possible. Right. You know, it's, I don't know. It's it. It's exciting. That's, I mean, one of the things that we love about being in this particular niche within a niche is it's really putting all those things together. The cycling world, I think, came up with that term aggregation of marginal gains. It's how do you squeeze that half a percent out of all these different things to make a noticeably better performance. And I think, Ultra is certainly that and you factor in the the mindset Sleep becomes another one.

Oh man yeah yeah. What's your strategy for sleep, you know, and nutrition and the rest of it's all wrapped together and you have to really optimize and kind of be a scientist or a doctor of your own body. The good ones are. They are. I think that's like Roach even like you know Courtney, her husband, he's I don't know what I can't remember what he is, but it's super smart, always on the computer. Like the spreadsheets, you know, it's...

Yeah, yeah. I like it because she talks about, like, oh, just candy beer type stuff, but I know Kevin is like looking... Sure. She's not really bad, yeah. There's no way. I mean, she eats candy,

and I'm sure it's here, but like that's not what she's doing when she's training. Yeah, but I, because I always think about this too, and I'm, you know, me and Trude have been talking about it because he's really got these high goals. and it's like even in training

if you're optimized in training nutritionally you can push harder the harder you can push so you talk about like how do you squeeze that like the Tour de France guys or the cyclist how do you squeeze a little bit more on the day of performance

well you get that training up to the highest level it can so but if you're if you're a calorie deficit or you don't have enough carbs and you're not just getting like that half of a second or whatever out of a rap or a 400 or an 800 or whatever mile you're doing because you know it's like we talk about the treadmill or the downhill you're like your body's getting used to like running at this super high cadence you can't do that if you're not optimal in nutrition

and salt and everything else so even the training at the highest level pays off you know in the event itself and I think we're you know when I first started I don't think you know in a marathon you'd never even think of taking a gel or a calorie you like maybe you maybe grab a piece of banana every once in a while but nobody even hardly drank

you know oh you go up by a water station I guess but there's no talk about getting calories in well Truitt I think on his he ran that 22541 he took like I think a gel every I think he took six gels and so that and he said it made the biggest difference.

So even just that one thing, getting calories in. But yeah, so we're learning all that and it's the time's reflected. Yeah. And his stomach has to be used to taking all those in too. That's the thing. People have to like, that's what I'm seeing now is everybody's like on these shorter runs. Everyone's taking gels just to get their stomach used to when they have to take them. Yeah.

And you got to give credit for Roach to Roach for that. You know, he's been pushing this high carb stuff. But also training your gut, you know, because you can. can't just go and take 10 gels. I mean, you'd be shit in your pants. Yeah. Yeah. So it becomes that training your body for taking in those calories under the high load during that that high event. Because, you know, it's amazing to me. You get some people come in and they just are going to take whatever nutrition is at the aid station. Yeah. You're gambling with your race at that point. Like, you got to know what to put in and when. Yeah. Exactly. If you want to have that ultimate performance,

for sure. Right. But even, even midpack, I think, you. your ability to finish a race, like you can't finish it if you can't keep down food. Right. Yeah. And so you got to find what works for you. And part of that is in the training too, you know, you got to figure it out. Can train that gut. And that's like, yeah, that's what people, everybody sees the gels and you hear about it and like, oh, you got to take gels in.

Oh, how many carbs per hour are you getting? Yeah. You just can't go do that. Right. So, yeah. And there's a million different gels as well. There is. Which one works for your system?

I know. Yeah. For me personally, those Martin gels or whatever they are, those, man, those go down good. Those go down good. I would agree. Yeah. And because I remember back, you know, when it first started it was like the goo gels,

it was like, what is that shit you do around your windows? It's like cocking. It'll seem like as you're trying to swallow cocking. It's like, God, these suck. And you just can't even like, you've got to drink how to get it down. If it's cold, they can't even get it out of the packet. It's just terrible. But these Martin gels, man, they,

they're good. So anyway, it's, it's going to be a challenge, but it's a, that's part of, part of the sport, as part of the evolution

and the performances that are, I mean, it's just an exciting time. Yeah, it really is. I love talking to all these. Well, to you guys, of course,

but even all the other ultra runners and stuff, I don't, I can't have this podcast just turn into like full-time ultra, but God, I, you know,

I've talked a million times Rachel Interkin wants to come on and I want to get Killing Korathan and like Andy Glaze, But I could just talk to these guys because it is just fascinating. Oh, yeah. It's like people who push this hard is just, it's awesome.

Yeah. Love it. It's awesome. Yeah. It's an exciting time for sure. And just seeing trail take off like this. What other races were you guys out this year? Did you just do Coca-Dona?

No, we were a lot. Yeah. Well, a lot of the daybreak races, yeah. So Gorge, Hood 100. Mm-hmm. We were just at one cloud cap. There's another one. They're actually doing a late race called the Thunder River out in the gorge as well.

Oh, really? So how long is it? Well, they'll have different, yeah, 100K, I believe. Yeah. So that'll be interesting because that's a pretty late race. I think it's the first week in November. And we were down at TrailCon for that week. What was that?

It was like a... In between Broken Arrow and Western. There's a... conference. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. It's like for business. Yeah, it's all the trail.

Or industry. Yeah. Let's say industry. Brands and people associated, you know, nutrition brands and for brands, apparel, all of it there. And it's a series of lectures and I guess informational sessions around the state of the business, what's happening. Yeah.

Thought leadership type of stuff. This year was kind of about the professionalization of trail running. And so there were athletes talking about how they do. that. How do you monetize on? Oh, yeah. Social. You know, so I think there's a theme, an overriding theme every year and then they find the right panels to get together and super

informational. I mean, a lot of the stuff, if you're in the space, you're going to know, but it's great to connect with people and obviously a great setting and right between Broken Air and Western. So it's like, well, why leave? Yeah. You give a reason for everyone to stay around. Dylan's one of the, he's not the only, but he's one of the ones spearheaded

one of the founders. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. He's a good spokesperson for the support it seems like yeah yeah he's kind of the authority I think he's like yeah yeah I still like I need more hot takes from them yeah that's it that's true get him on shit talkers yeah yeah that would be good see what he would see you get him to open up I'm sure he has a lot of knowledge about no he just be seeing how great everybody was yeah I know yeah not everybody great come on yeah yeah he just maybe in his position he can't talk yeah that's what Rachel was saying she's really

good at shit talking so yeah how we're on yeah that I know she wants to come on shit talk I see like Dylan and Courtney are too nice. I know. Yeah. So I want to hear some, I want to hear some crazy shit. Come on. Let's get it out there. But yeah. Yeah. Well, so the big news today, one of the favorite packages I get every month is a black rifle coffee club exclusive roast. The only way you can get it is if you're a member of the club. And with hunting season right around the corner, I've got to mention one of my favorite black rifle items for Elkamp, the vanilla bomb instant coffee stick. Super easy, super good. And perfect for those early mornings in the mountains. Black Rifle Coffee is America's Coffee. Veteran

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I think is, you know, you guys brought, came down, you guys come down every quarter and we talk about business and do, do, do, do. just whatever, just BS. But so this time, what do we got here? I mean, what is this? I think people kind of saw maybe a little, this is what I basically hunted in these all season. Tell me about it.

Yeah, this is largely based on our relationship with you and looking at what's happened in the trail space. Can we leverage our expertise in mountain footwear and create the optimal boot. And, you know, it's a multi-use boot, obviously hunting being the focus and working with you pretty hard on that portion of it, but there's other uses as well, you know,

from hiking to just tactical, casual. So it's a new space for us. The idea of taking a trail platform into this space isn't necessarily new, but it's a new business for us and a new approach. And different consumer set as well. You know, there's probably a fair amount of your consumers

who do this, largely it's going to be a new new subset of people so introducing speedland to a different group of folks yeah we're taking a lot of what we learned on the trail product and bringing it into a boot as well right you can i guess right away you can see the fit system right it's yeah it's asymmetrical it's the same kind of rap system that we have going on on the the trail product but bringing it to the boot it's a different bow a dial but it still has boa how is it different it's more powerful okay we're also using a cable but it's a more powerful but it's a more powerful dial because you know you're obviously the you're asking it to do more yeah than what we are on the

trail shoe yeah there's more bulk to a boot and right different number of layers to to really crank down that upper we needed the more powerful it has a wrap because the the booty itself has a wrap construction so it's a it's a bit of a little bit different construction but it's very seamless it's it's a waterproof boot so um you know that's something we haven't really done on the trail space because it has a different different use. And then there's just a lot of it's using our trail bottom from the GL. So anybody who's used the GL with the 6.5 millimeter lugs, that's what we brought to this. So it's a fairly aggressive tread pattern, but has worked really well as an all mountain trail shoe. So it should really do the job on the boot side. It's, I mean, it's durable and it's grippy. Like not just on mud,

You know, it's not going to hold mud. I think these are spaced far enough apart where they're not holding a bunch of mud, but it's giving you that grip in it. But mostly what I, I'm on wet rock a lot and even, you know, at an angle. And it's grippy on that. That's what you want. You don't want your boots sliding out.

You know, if you got too hard of a... Exactly. It's plate compatible as well. So like, I don't think there's another boot on the market that's plate compatible. So you can take the carbon plate in and out, just like you can on the trail shoes. So it shares a lot of the modular system. It doesn't have a plate in it right now, but we can pull it out because I also want to

show people it's got your tattoo. Oh yeah. It's got the good graphic on the footbed. That's the old tight bowl there. That's one on my shin. That's one right there. But yeah. But yeah, you can see.

So the plate fits in there and slides into that groove. So if you want to use the carbon plate, you can put it in there that we use. that we use on the trail product, which is another, you know, cool thing, cool offering. So, yeah,

it's got a lot of cool features that I think are pretty unique to this boot. And, yeah, we're really excited about it. A lot of testing went into this. Yeah,

definitely. It's, like I said, I used it basically, let's see, so end of August, and then I just killed that last bowl here

last week, I think. So we're like mid-October and used, the new Speedland boot for on every hunt except the Winaha hunt and man I was impressed you know I put it I put some miles on and what I like about you guys for sure is so here's this is that first iteration of that basically and then this is this is a non-waterproof version right is that right is that's right am I understanding that right yeah so I hunted I did about me I think three I

No, I did two hunts in this, but long hunts back and forth, Colorado, Bulls and Arizona everywhere. And then on the last, on the Utah hunt, I wore these. So, yeah, I feel like I got a ton of miles in and a lot of challenging rain, heat, rugged country. And I do at least 10 miles a day. So it's a, we're covering some country. Um, yeah. A test like that, it's like here's what we learn. We learn like this looks like it's losing some color there. And then on the on one of these, uh, yeah, a stick went through that the very bottom of that, which yeah, right there, which might, which would give credence to having the plate in there. Yeah, the plate will completely block that. Right. So it's a, but that's kind of what we learned. You guys, you guys give me. these products say run them through the ringer tell us what you learn and uh there's really no better way to to do it right so what what change i mean how did we address those those issues there yeah i mean

well the on the whatever you want to call that the paint or whatever yeah there's no paint anymore on the boots so if if you look at it the midsoles black so it's it's using what's called htp u beads but they're actually uh black beads so there's no paint anymore so okay there's There's, there's, that could not, that could not happen again. Yeah. So that, that's not, that's not a function thing. That's just, no, that's just an aesthetic thing. But yeah, you want your boots looking good.

So, you know, so that's, that's one change on that. Obviously, you can put the plate in. We added a little, a gar, a rubber guard, yeah, in the back. So when you're kicking your boots off or if anything was to hit, we didn't have that on this. So that's another guard from this foam ever chipping now that we've added kind of a bumper let's say okay um so that that's a big change and then um we went with a new buck toe now we had a what's called a i don't know if you'd call this fine mold or casp u toe and um we were addressing some different fit issues and so we ended up going with a new buck toe instead you can kind of see there might be a

tiny bit of separation right there exactly so that that addresses that exactly yeah so um and which we think the new buck in the toe we know it's abrasion test and it looks great so we feel really good about all those changes but those are all kind of direct uh let's say responses to some of the stuff that you were dealing with yeah and this it you can tell like this iteration is just a little beefier than this first one i mean it's just a little bit more boot yeah and uh so we we made some adjustments i mean it's it's a it's a process right we made you know i think we've talked about this maybe on passbookers, but the shoe or the boot is based off what they call a last. And it's built around that form.

And so you said to us, hey, this is feeling a little tight in this area. Because when you do a boot construction, it's different. So we actually ended up changing the last slightly, adding a little more girth in certain areas. So there was no, say, rubbing where you didn't want rubbing and stuff. So that's why you see it's a touch beefier in certain areas. but that's the reason why to address. And we want to make sure it fits exactly how it should fit. Yeah.

Well, it's, I mean, the fit, yeah, there's a, I mean, I like the changes you made. The fit to me, like, they always felt good. They felt fast. This is a non-waterproof version. But fast, light, which is, that's what I want. I mean, I consider myself like a more athletic type hunter. I want to cover country, right? Yeah.

And sometimes I'm running. I am. I want, it's hard to run in some of those big heavier boots. Sometimes if you're going to go, you know, cut off a bowl getting up the mountain, sometimes I got to go to the backside and run to cover that distance, then pop back over. And I do that all the time. I want a boot that's going to not hinder that, that's going to help me. And a more athletic lighter boot like these did. So it was never like, to me, it was never like the fit or the feel or the, my ability was ever compromised. It was just these little tweaks and you guys have dressed it, which is, I mean, that's the biggest advantage to having a brand and having, you know, the founders here and listening and carrying and making the tweaks because these other brands I just don't think are that nimble, you know, you guys can do it. Yeah, and we get a lot of quite when people see you in it.

We get, we get a lot of questions. Oh, when's that boot coming out, you know? And we're like, well, it's come out when it's ready to come out. Right. Yeah. So that's why this is taking us honestly a little bit. longer than maybe we would have liked but we feel you know it's worth to take the time and do it the right the first time you know so yeah we're always optimistic right we hope things if things follow a perfect path i think we would have had this out for sale in the fall but it became clear through the summer it just wasn't quite ready and for us to rush it would kind of uh you know we don't want to ruin the first chance we have to launch a boot right and with speed land so um you know it was made it relatively easy to hey we just got to push it out a little bit until we get it right yeah and

I mean who wins in that process the consumer you know they're getting a better product it's it's it's not like this stuff is cheap it's expensive to make so you know the retail cost is is you know not cheap either but you want it to be something they can count on and this process kind of kind of ensures that um or to the best of our ability you know it's still it's still the mounds it's Mounds are pretty unforgiving, but you put out the best product you can, and hopefully people can use it to find success. And I did. So, yeah, I definitely appreciate how you guys go through and care about everything.

And then also, what's this, what's this shoe here? So this is anybody who's familiar with our GS. You know, we have the G.S. Kocodona with you is this is the same GS model, but in, you know, basically all. black so it's we called the black pack so it's it's coming with the scent releasing kind of the same time as the boot um we think it's kind of a nice uh one two punch here yeah yeah i like it pretty excited yeah we hadn't done like fully yeah kind of murdered out version of the gs we did the black with the white midsole we must endure yeah had a little red in it but this one's uh all black so it's yeah

and this one has the long lugs as well so the the the lugs are 6.5 millimeters on the boot they're also 6.5 on the on this bottom as well so aggressive yeah so you know pretty nice kind of i'd say winter package here it is it's just like you know like the lat that it was it the tmt the white white ones i mean you don't want to get those dirty you know those look kind of nice fresh they got the the tree on there and it's just like no i want these looking good so it's nice to have a shoe that is black you can just thrash that thing and it's all good but uh yeah yeah it's a good good winter to the yang of that TNT. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I need bright cool shoes for church and then for mud. I want black. But it looks great. I mean, it's pretty exciting being involved like so closely in a process like this. And, you know, my name's been on stuff before that I wish was a little bit different. And, you know, I'd make suggestions. And it wouldn't happen.

And it's a little bit frustrated. And so it's nice to have you guys be so. responsive to changes and like and not like oh no we we said this was coming out and you know this time we you know whatever our catalog or this or that it has to come out even whether it's ready or not so it feels good that you guys oh it wasn't ready let's make sure it's perfect that's that's awesome i love it that's great yeah it's a good partnership that way james okay so obviously you guys talk about how you kind of scrutinize over the details and and a product to where you're happy with it.

So where do you find that line? Because you both kind of seem like the product's never perfect or you haven't created the perfect product and also coming up with a product that you feel reaches those goals and kind of hits those marks that you wanted to hit. Yeah, that's a good question. It is a good question and it's a constant conundrum in the business, right? You know, you want to make a perfect product. But if you really are striving for that, then you would never put anything out as a brand.

You know, so you have to find that balance. And working with athletes, I think it's a little easier because you can let them answer that question. Like, is this, would you choose to wear this? Are you happy with that? You know, and in this case with the boot with Cam, it's like he's using it and wearing it and telling us that it's ready, then that's good enough for us. There might be things that we want to improve. For sure, there are things that we learn once we launch a product. Then you start getting in a more consumers, different consumers.

You get the feedback. you already start getting a list for how you can make it better for the next one. And that's super valuable too. But you just can't progress, not perfection is kind of the mantra that I think we subscribe to one and anything. I mean, we care how it looks, but we definitely going off function first.

Like we want it to function great. And if it doesn't look quite right, we're still like, does it function great? Because that's kind of where our head goes first. We're definitely more trying to create, that F1 car that's like a sum of its parts versus okay yeah we're going to tweak this because we want it to look a certain way that's definitely not us yeah I did notice I like this little

detail right here or right there oh yeah run with the land yeah see that's I like little stuff like that I mean you guys do such a good job on the little details that I mean who's going to notice that not everybody but I do I just love I just love the little whatever what Easter eggs. It's flare. It's like a, that's another good movie, Office space. Yeah.

You need 15 pieces of flare on this. That's one. Oh, I think we got one. Yeah, there's something in here, isn't there? There's something in there. No, no flare in there. Just a standard speed land. Yeah, no.

You need more flare. Your, your boot has flare on this one. You've got your tattoo on there. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. What else you got? Okay.

Talking about kind of small brands and also how ultra running is kind of, kind of on this come up. We're starting to see some separations or clicks of the brands in the industry. You know, you've got brands that are kind of more edgy, skater-like, like satisfy. And then kind of some more proper brands and maybe they're the bigger ones. So where do you guys kind of see Speedland falling? Yeah. I mean, I think, well, for one, I would say that we're, like we said, like we're positioned more on this high function equipment. From the start, we're like, we don't even want to say we'd create footwear our shoes. want to say we create equipment okay and so that right away puts it in a totally different zone that say

a satisfied right because they're more big i mean no no no shade on on them but uh there there there it's more maybe where fashion means sport um yeah to some degree and we're definitely more on the high performance equipment um and if if if people want to take our equipment into fashion you know we're we're all about it right yeah but um but that's not where we're where we're we're not where we're we're start we start with equipment mindset you know we're we we always from the start we're looking at things like high performance gear so it could be stuff like your bow it could be cycling it could be skiing it could be mountain bikes it could be any number of things but that's more where our head goes is like oh yeah this is a piece of equipment that's going to go with sit right next to your bow your point

yeah something more of that mindset right yeah definitely yeah and I think that I think sometimes brands try to respond to the market. And it's like, they could see like, oh, it's satisfy hot. Is it good, we got to be more fashion focused or do we need like whatever. But you guys have like stayed. No, this is what we do. We don't care. We don't care.

We're going to keep doing this. And I see, you know, you see like it takes a while, but then Nike's like, oh, we got to get into trail because it's like this, this hot thing. And it's just like, well, it's more just a response to the market. it's not really like what they want to do is like the feeling I get. It's just like, oh, they're like, oh, man, we could sell some product here. We better get something out there. But you guys have never, it's like, this is what we do. We're going to make the best we can.

And that's just it. And everybody else can do whatever they want. Yeah, it's again, you can't look too much over your shoulder. You have to be aware of what's going on in the market, obviously. but I think we're pretty clear and super focused on our lane and the right people find us, you know, the people who want that equipment mindset who want to feel like they have the best thing

to help them through their next big event. Like that's what we're here for. Yeah, perfect. I like it. Hoyt began with a dream and a simple desire. Create the best bow hunting and target archery equipment possible and since 1931, that is exactly what they have been doing. I'm skeptical every year that this year's bow will be better than last years, yet somehow

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Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had for the past two seasons, head to sikshower.com, grab a pair of Zulu Binos, and use code cam for 10% off. Sig Sauer Zulu Binos. Seymour, Hunt Harder. Anything else? Yeah, I got one more. You guys mentioned kind of the difficulties with tariffs and, you know, how that's impacting.

So how does that affect your guys' mission and also making sure that you kind of stick to this idea that you're providing a product that is of the utmost, with the utmost quality materials. And you guys have always been kind of in the hot water for the price, but you're also offering a shoe that lasts a long time. So how are those tariffs kind of impacting you guys? Well, I'll say at the starting on the Kevin answer this. I would say it definitely doesn't change our mission.

We're not, we don't compromise on our vision, our vision or a mission, whatever you want to say. So we are what we are regardless of what crazy stuff the world does one way or the other. Yeah, I think it just makes it more. more challenging to, okay, if we have to shift countries of manufacture, that's finding a new factory that's capable of building to our standards, capable of building the quality product. And so those are extra hurdles that we have to go through. We've got to find, develop those relationships if we don't have them already.

We've got to find the places. We've got to validate that they can do what they say. And so those are- So it could make us go a little slower. Yeah, it has made us go slower this year. to be fair, some of the things that we were hoping to launch partially just due to needing to find a different place and make sure that we do maintain that level of quality just has slown us down a little bit. But it doesn't, as Dave pointed out, change our mission.

It hasn't changed our mindset. We're not like, oh, well, we should just make lower cost stuff because, you know, that's going to be easier. It's too challenging. Yeah, like that doesn't. The world has enough footwear brands without a point of view. Yeah. We don't need to be one of those. That's right. Yeah. I understand. Well, that's, yeah, I think, I think that should give, I don't know, reassurance to the consumer, too, that you guys, I just, that approach, just hearing you say, you know, your approach is quality is not going to be compromised. You got your standard, you know, the standard is a standard, and that doesn't change regardless. And I think, yeah, I think that's great. People can count on that. That's definitely reassuring. So what's the How's the Speedland Athlete stable looking these days? Consistent.

Yeah, we still have the same crew that we've had. Same crew? Okay. Yeah, I'm trying to think so. The most recent would be Natalie. Natalie Sandoval was an ad this year. Yeah, she's down in Arizona. She's supposed to be doing Havelina,

but she's a little bit injured. Oh, dang. She's not going to do that, but she'll still trying to get ready for next year. unfortunate but she's avery had a great yeah he ran big foot took third oh good yeah okay nice who so big big foot oh killian of course won killing one every every every and killing were kind of going back and forth really wow yeah he had a good run he had a really good run it was a it was a good one and then you know killing i guess pulled away there but um but it was a great one and i think avery was pretty happy with that

yeah yeah he kind of he's one that you talked about nutrition he really reset his approach to training with nutrition. He was on the bike. Got on the bike a lot more this year. Oh, really? To balance that not getting the body so beat up from trying to run all the miles. So he's running and cycling. And I think he saw some results this year from mixing that up.

That's interesting. That's a great one. Of course, we still have Dylan. Of course, we still have Don. Don just ran the 24-hour world championships over in France. How'd that go? He said it wasn't their day. We haven't had a chance to catch up with them yet.

So the U.S. men's team didn't do as well as they had hoped. And I think the U.S. women's team did pretty well. Did pretty well. I think they finished fourth. Yeah. Was it on a track? Just how many miles you can get in 24 hours? Is that what it was?

Yeah. Yeah. So it's a little bit different type of event. But brutal. Brutal. God. Yeah. So tough.

So tough. Yeah. It's, I don't know. It's weird. So there's so many different things going on out there. everybody's like playing the game like how do I get eyeballs on me so there's there's that that's I mean that's like been around for a while 24 hours you run as far as you can then there's a races everybody loves the races and the live tracking and the GPS and all that stuff and then there's like

the like the run across a country or run across Texas or it's like everybody or or I think I saw somebody saying they're going to run 700 miles and seven days but I don't know it's just weird how everybody's coming up with these new and then the fk t's kind of adjacent to that yeah yeah yeah there's known routes and how fast can you do that and i i think you've talked about it on the podcast as well there's just there's so many different formats in trail now that that's really interesting you know from yeah from these backyard ultras to the the distances varying and um it it's it's pretty exciting time in the space yeah it's fun that i don't know you always want to see like get your like I like one of my favorite F K Ters is Tara Dower right so then you're like I want her to do

good at whatever Western I know she didn't get into hard rock I wanted to say but you're always like how could they do or you know Jeff Garmeyer he ran he'd always does good at Kokadona and then he just got the FKT on the AT and it's like it's just fun seeing yeah like who can or Courtney on the road now you know it's like the queen of mountains what can she do on it's yeah it's just cool it's like There's so many different, and it's all based on endurance. And we talked about human potential, how hard and how far can you push or how fast can you push. And that's what's amazing.

We're still trying to figure this shit out. Humans have been around a while. And we're still like, that's what I say. It's like, we're the most amazing species because we're still getting better or I don't know, figuring out ways to push harder. And yeah, I love, I mean, I'm addicted to all of it. It's like I just, you know, I'm following Jeff Garmeyer's every day, his, you know, crazy updates because he's been out there forever. Yeah.

And it's like the weather's just brutal. And yeah, I just love it all. I'm just addicted to seeing what humans can do. It's really cool. Yeah. I mean, I agree. It's such an interesting time. So it's fun to see the people cross over.

And, you know, is Courtney going to be as good as everyone expects her to be? And of course, she killed it in that first one. And I'm sure she'll continue to get better. Sometimes you see the opposite. Somebody jumps in and you think, oh, they were so good at that. They're going to crush here. And they don't usually takes them a little while. Yeah.

But all of it makes it really exciting. It is because like with her, you know, if you're running in the mountains, a nine minute mile, you're flasked. You're flying. Right. So now she needs to get down to around a six minute a mile to getting that to the 230s. Yeah.

And a whole different game. That turnover is quite different. Yeah. So just getting on the track, like for Ultras, I think some people do. I know Roach does, but like that speed work, I've never done speed work. I'm like, I don't,

never, not even for a marathon, so maybe I need to. But yeah, it's just a whole different discipline, essentially. It's still running, but it's different. Yeah. It's just fun to see how it translates. Definitely.

Well, what's, so do you guys have like a, what's a vision for Speedland? Like where are we headed? More cool shit? More cool shit. Still, you know, different products for the,

mountains. So, you know, obviously the boot's new, but we have some cool, cool, let's say, new models plan for next year that we don't have out yet. We'll have a non-waterproof version of that boot, which will be in that coyote brown color, probably in the spring, that shoe that we talked about a little bit earlier, the Leadville. Yeah. Yeah. We're dialing that in. That's another exciting one for the spring. It's kind of an ultra, think of it as like an ultra race shoe. If this is kind of more of an ultra train the GS is more of like an ultra train shoe right the leadville's more like an ultra race shoe okay yeah yeah the first time light light a little lighter yeah a little lighter still maxedack but a little lighter fast um we're pretty excited

about that one yeah i i didn't so i wore a version of that you tested a prototype of it yeah yeah yeah and i did like it and it looked cool yeah it was it was sick it'll looks it'll look very similar Yes. Well, that's good. And just tell me real quick, the price difference between the waterproof version of the boot and the non-waterproof. We haven't actually set, I mean, the price on the waterproof one is $2.99. Okay. And so it'll be a bit less for the non-waterproof version. We haven't exactly set it.

Yeah. Yeah, because I know that anytime we add features like Boa cost money, the waterproof membrane costs. money, de Michelin, that cost money. So anytime you add these little features, it's going to cost a little bit more, but it's also adding to the product. Or maybe you don't need it. Like with a non-waterproof,

maybe that's for a summer mountain hunt type thing. You don't need to pack around that waterproof membrane. But yeah, anytime you add features, you're adding cost. But yeah, I was just curious. So you guys haven't nailed it down yet. But, yeah. I mean, we'd love to get that at 250.

250 would be our. 250 it would be our ideal if we could do it. Yeah. If the economics of that work for us, then that's what we'll do. Okay. Well, that's cool. I mean, I've got a lot of messages on the boot. People saw the pictures.

People saw, you know, some of the video. And so this is going to be a good listen for them. You can find out all you want about the new Speedland Boot. And, yeah, thank you guys for, I did, I just, you know, thanks for what you do for me personally, but also pushing the market and challenging the market. and what Speedland is done with coming in, I think has changed the game. And people had to respond and they have.

And everybody wins, as you said. So thank you guys. Thank you. All right. Keep hammering, guys. Someone to blame. They said that hate, it fuels my pace. I am Roy tough.

I am the change. The fuel in dirt. Filling like Cam Hanks. Nobody wants I'll give you my heart