Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 165 - Jelly Roll

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Jelly Roll - American rapper, singer, and songwriter from Nashville, Tennessee. Jelly rose from underground hip-hop roots to mainstream success in country and rock music, known for his raw, autobiographical lyrics about addiction, redemption, incarceration, and personal struggles. Join Cam and Jelly Roll for a conversation about Jelly Roll’s weight loss journey, thoughts on his first time bowhunting, and some stories that've never been told! You don’t want to miss this episode. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes  Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/  Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com  Follow Jelly Roll: https://www.instagram.com/jellyroll615/  Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Hunting Quail as a Kid & the Tail of 2 Men 00:05:13 – Charges as a Kid & How Having a Daughter Changed Jelly’s Goals 00:09:55 – A Great Personality, Singing in Prison, & Housing Dice Games 00:15:28 – Confidence from Family Values 00:18:47 – Who Cam is as a Person to Jelly Roll & Believing in Others 00:27:36 – Faith in God, Jelly’s Parents, & Mother Issues 00:37:46 – The 48 Laws of Power & Growing into a Life of Love, & Jelly’s Dad 00:44:04 – Christianity Today & How Faith is Growing in More People 00:52:19 – Seeking Validation from Efforts & Having a Positive Attitude While Learning 00:59:16 – Manifesting Change & Winning Little Battles to Bigger Changes 01:10:45 – Moments as a Father & Reaching People with Negative Mindsets 01:22:25 – What Got Jelly Roll into Bowhunting 01:32:53 – Learning New Skillsets, Lessons from Bowhunting, & Nature Waking Up 01:44:50 – The Payoff of Getting on the Right Path and Being Accountable 01:52:55 – Realistic Goals for Yourself: Doing What You Say You’re Going to Do 02:04:21 – Winning the Battle at the Table: The Battle with Calories 02:06:54 – The Music Man: Identity, Learning Music, and the Power in Music 02:18:17 – What the Grand Ole Opry Means to Jelly 02:27:07 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free ShippingHoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is the Keep Hammering Collective and I am with Jelly Roll.

Boom, baby. My first ever hunt. On the Keep Hammering Collective. We've been wanting to do this for a long time. A long time, dude. And the fact it would be serendipitous or Godmore, divinity. that we'd be doing it on my first hunt. That's the coolest part.

Can you believe this? It's that, dude, us holding out to do it was right. Oh, I know. You know what I mean? This is just how it was meant to be. But you are a bow hunter. I'm a bow hunter, dude. How crazy does that feel?

Dude, we've been talking about it nonstop. I've never, it's like, y'all joke. We y'all laughed about it last night, but it's like when you let that shot go, it's up there with the feeling you get of childbirth. You know what I mean? Of like wedding vows. Like the idea.

do moment. These are those moments in life that create those kind of feelings. It's life defining moment, dude. It truly in every way. And I also understand how you became an author now. Like, I've learned more lessons in five days in a blind with you in nature than I have in a year of traveling the world. You know what I mean? Like, just there's a lesson. What did you say yesterday? It was so poetic. It was everything matters. Yeah. Like, was that what you said exactly? It's like everything matters. Everything matters. Like it is so deep, dude.

It's such a mixture of randomness, everything mattering. Still needing a lot of luck and favor in your way. Understanding, dude, I'm learning about wind. I mean, it's just everything about this is crazy. For those watching at home, this is my first time hunting so ever. And I'm doing it with a bow. I hunted when I was young. You know, it was like child on my uncle's farm,

but never like really hunted. Here I'm a 41-year-old man that's, owned a bow for six months. Did you, when you were a kid, so you'd get in the tree stands and then you guys would rifle hunt and just kill like does and anything that came by basically? Yeah, you could down anything. My uncle had up, actually my uncle was a big quail hunter for a long time. He had a bunch of quails back when Tennessee used to have a lot of natural habitat for quails.

So he would just, he had a whole ton of them on like five or six hundred acres. So he would have quail hunts all the time. My dad would go out there. I think I've told you the story, but I don't know if I've shared it publicly besides on my Instagram is that, oh, this will be fun to talk about now. So my father and my uncle were the tale of two men in a way. You know, two men that grew, there's a story that said in therapy that was five people, two people, four people can grow up in the same household, have three or four totally

different experiences, stories, traumas, victories, you know what I mean? And they were best friends, though, all the way to the day my daddy dad. My daddy took over their grandfather's business, my grandfather's business. My uncle was just never into the meat business like that. He was honest about it. He was just way more entrepreneurial. Was it like butchering? No, no, no.

One thing about it is that we stayed away from the cutting of the cows. We just liked to sell them after they got cut. That's what my daddy used to say, we're not a butcher man. That's one thing we don't do. We don't cut cows. We sell. But it was a wholesale business. It started as a small sausage company.

They would pack their own sauces. Now that's back when Big Beaufort, my grandfather, he made their own sausage recipes, cut the pigs and everything. Okay. It was famous. Yeah. Yeah, my Uncle Buford's Ted to this day that you ever heard of Jimmy Dean sausage? Yeah.

They believe the D-Fords could have been competitors with Jimmy Dean, you know, had Big Buford live long enough to see that legacy through. Yeah. And then my father came in and immediately started seeing small grocery stores and small independent restaurants launching everywhere. So he was like, we should wholesale this and sell more than pork out of the back of one truck. Right. So he turned scaling into a multiple truck business. And he was a meat salesman. And he did really good with it.

But my uncle was just real entrepreneurial. You know what I mean? Just immediately kind of got into it really strong in investment was really financially responsible. My father not so financially responsible. So that was the difference between you. Biggest difference. Yeah.

But my father not so. And Uncle, and Uncle Buffer ended up earning a lot more over the years because of his financial responsibility. Yeah. You can make better investments. So my father would take us out there to the uncle's farm. You know what I mean?

And it was like leaving the neighborhood that we lived in and going to this farm couldn't have been two further experiences. Okay. So you were in this neighborhood, you were petrified of guns, but in this neighborhood you were given one and you were taught to shoot and cook it. You know what I mean? And cut it. So it was just such a cool thing to see as a child. You know what I mean? Where'd you live in town? Like in the city? Yeah. I'm in Nashville. So I'm in Antioch, Antioch south of Nashville, 30 miles. It's like a Like how big a city? Yeah. Oh, dude, like a couple hundred thousand people. Okay. Yeah, for sure.

It's like, I tell people I'm from South Nashville, but I'm actually from Antioch, Tennessee. That's why I represented so hard because when I had to write my mama letters from jail, unfortunately, that was a part of my story. I had to write them to Antioch Tennessee. There's an Antioch in the Bible. Yeah, there's an Anniok in the Bible. One in California, they all feel similar, by the way. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. So you'd come out of the city and go to the country. Yeah. And then I started getting in trouble, you know, 12, 13 years old, and that quit happening because I was incarcerated. So from, you know, the story, 13 to 24, pretty much. I was just a complete, like, low-life human. One of my favorite packages that I get on a monthly basis is a Black Rifle Coffee Club exclusive coffee roast.

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Seymour, Hunt Harder. What happened at 13? What's stealing stuff or what? It started shoplifting at 12, caught my first case, just like at whatever the local best buyer record. I think I stole from a record shop. Yeah. It was the best buy though or something. No, it was like some merch though.

Like some band merch or something like that. You know what I mean? Like just like a cool hoodie or something. I was just looking for like cool. I don't know. And then there was a lot of drug dealing in my neighborhood. I felt like it was very defined by drug users and drug sellers. You know what I mean?

And I remember the drug sellers had girls and cars and the drug users didn't. You know what I mean? And I would end up still getting addicted to drugs later in life. But in that moment I chose the hustle. Yeah. And I wasn't necessarily. great at it in my youth so then I took other routes and made really bad decisions and I went and robbed somebody and that's when I got charged as an adult which is why I was

16 years old when I committed the crime and I was charged as an adult then which is why you got me into hunting because I can't rifle hunt which is why the story of my childhood hunting ends there did you have a gun in that there I did not have a gun but a gun was used in the robbery and I was with the people with the gun I had bad intentions that's for sure that's what I you know what I said at my own pardon hearing. I had my own pardon hearing, Cam Haynes, to, to, to, to, to, you go in front of the parole board again, to see if they'll recommend you for a pardon before it goes in front of the governor. And the first thing they asked me was, was you carrying a gun that night. And I was so proud of this, because I thought about this for years of anybody ever asked me that.

And I said, no, I wasn't carrying the gun, but I was just as guilty as the person with the gun. Like, it doesn't matter. I knew he had a gun. I agreed to this. I might as well have had the gun. You know what I mean? In fact, if anything, I'm glad he had the gun, because God knows I wasn't stable enough to have one. I might have overreacted in the moment and made this a bigger charge. So that probably screwed your case basically being honest. It doesn't help. That definitely doesn't help. You know what I mean? But it's like, I'd rather just be honest and say, you know what I mean? Like, don't give me grace because I didn't have the gun because like, I should have had the gun. I probably would have killed the guy. You know what I mean? Like, I just totally was not in a

space to, you know. But that's that extreme ownership. It's kind of been the biggest part of my life change. Is that, I mean, the jelly roll I know is like painfully always telling the truth, even if you don't want to. And it sounds like you did that. Have you always been? No, no. Here goes the reverse of that. My first parole hearing ever I ever had, I was incomplete denial. It was everybody else's fault. I wasn't even actually there, I don't think. I think this whole thing was blown out of proportion. And I should have been home forever ago. I'm a victim in this case. I was the victim in every case. My default. was lying and my other default was I am the victim. How can I circle around this being

anybody's fault of mine? You know a lot of people get in trouble have that mindset. Dude, it's such a, well, it's a, it's hand in hand. Like, they should recognize that. That's what it took for me to hand in hand. It was like, why do I keep putting, why do I keep feeling like I keep presenting myself as a victim and stuff that I'm clearly the agitator of? You know what I mean? Like I was, it was me all along. Did anybody ever say that? Or was it just a self-realization? It was self-realization. I don't think when you're that lost in yourself,

somebody could be like, hey man, you're really lost in yourself. And you'd be like, me, lost in me. You know what I mean? But it was like more of a, it was the day my daughter was born. Whenever I looked around and I was like. I remember seeing that on that documentary. For sure.

I was like, I have nothing to, I have nothing to be proud of here in reality. You know what I mean? it's like the when you have nothing like to be responsible for you could be proud of anything right yeah I got a bag of chips

which in jail I was proud that I had a bunch of bags of chips and a bunch of soups and I ran the poker table you know what I mean like I was proud of this then you have a little girl and all of a sudden

you're like dude I'm proud of owning a hundred dollars worth of street food in a jail right now like this is my biggest victory in life and my ego is hung on it

like I walk around here like these big bucks every day I get the most commisserie anybody need a soup, come talk to me, you know what I mean? Like it was... I run this shit.

Yeah, it's like how corny. Yeah. Like when you look at it like, whoa, man, how loss was I really came to think that was, you know, like you look back now. That was a win somehow. Yeah, somehow. Like, I was in a triple loss category and having the little girl made me realize that. I was like, dude, I'm responsible for this human.

And the only thing I can halfway manage is a poker table in jail and I'm proud of that. I'm like, this is, I got to do something, man. I was like, did, uh, so what? Jail life, though, were you like popular in that? Because it seems like you're always the life of the party. You're good at, I mean, you can entertain, you can sing, you got great stories. That was like you were you a celebrity in jail somehow? Kind of, I think, so I think I might have developed the skill in being in jail for so long.

Is that, you know, all you have in there is stories and personality. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's all you have. Yeah. Ultimately, you know, so you sit around and you got. got to find a way to entertain each other. And I was still rapping a lot and making music.

And I sung the choruses. So I'd always do like freestyle Fridays in the unit. And I'd always be the one to kick it off and get everybody going. So yeah, that's always kind of been a part of mine. Oh, they'd gas me. Like come knock on my cell door if I was sick on Friday. Like, bro, we don't care if you're sick or now. You're going to come out here and get this thing going on.

So you had to put on shows. Dude, all the time. They'd come knock on the door like, dude, you got to come out here. And then is that how you'd get all the commissary? For sure. Also with the poker. So I had a, when I was on this. streets, I would house dice games.

Because my guy jazz, who signed me to one of my first deals ever, like invested in me when I was not worth investing in him. I was like a 16-year-old, 17-year-old kid out on bail. But he would let me, hell, he would teach me how to house these dice games. And he had a studio. And the days that other people wouldn't show up to the studios, I'd go in there write songs. But the days the other artists. What does house the dice games mean?

It's like when you're the house, ultimately you're making sure all bets are there, all bets. You're the casino. Yeah. Yep. And you just get a rake of it. Okay. So it's just free money.

put no money in, you're just housing the dice game. But once I learned it, it was a hustle. Well, it didn't start by housing the dice game. It started by them giving me like, this was even cooler. They would give me money to go. The dudes that were gambling big would give me money to run to the store. So I just sit around all day. I did this at Street Flavor Records.

I was famous for this in my city where I would just sit at studios all day and just be like, I'm just here. If it opens up, I'm willing to rap or sing if you'll let me and I'll pay for the time. But if not, I'm just, I'm an accessory. Can I hang out? And I would just hang. So I'd be like the Aaron kid. Like, you'd be like, yo, go to the, and I was broke.

So they'd be like, I just got out of jail or juvenile. And they'd be like, here's a $100 bill. Go get seven juices and six cigaros and keep the change. These were big drug dealers. I was like, dude, I'm going to make $65 walking three streets down. This is crazy. So I kind of took that back to jail when I went back in. I was like, okay, cool.

I'm just going to house the poker game. You know what I mean? I'll deal them. You know what I'm saying? I'll make sure everybody's square business. Yeah, for sure. It's just I'll just kind of stay out of the game. Yeah.

So I didn't have to assume any risk. And they knew I was a straight. Yeah. So that helped, you know. Do you, I mean, I've heard this before or I don't know, maybe seen it, but do you think people like, because that is sort of success in jail in its own way and you were like, you were like successful in jail. Right. Do people like that's as close to their success as they're going to get so they'd rather stay there than be outside and have to start all the way over at the bottom and be like, I'm probably not going to get a chance anyway to do it right. So jail is best for me.

I'd rather be the best here than be the worst anywhere else. I think there's a lot of that, believe it. Is there? Yeah. Where for me it was a little different. It lit a fire in me. When I left jail that time, I was like, maybe I'm on to something. When your daughter was born.

Yeah, and not even just a daughter. Like, I started having inmates singing songs back to me where I'd like have a song like, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I'm stressed out. I'm just thinking about home, man, I want to go home. I feel so alone. Oh, I'm stressed out. So I had this song like that.

It was like this kind of melody I would do. And so they would sing it in other units. Like, and right then I was like, okay, this could be something. Like this is happening. This is more than just people liking me in the unit because I stay out of the way and make everybody money. You know what I mean? That's singing.

You said rapping. Yeah, yeah. But I would sing the choruses too. Would they, okay. So you do both in jail. Would they like best? Yeah, that was my songwriting. They just loved the song.

So it was like I thought they loved the rapping, but in hindsight, I think they just loved the singing because that's what they'd sing in the hallways. But, you know, for me, I thought I thought I was a bad singer. And my thought process was when I get home, somebody will actually sing this stuff. So imagine a girl singing this. And then is that what your thought was? You'd write it, sell it or something? Yeah, or I'd do the raps and I'd get somebody who could really sing I didn't think I could sing. I'd say this and people think I'm joking, Cam. I did not think I could be a singer. Like, it was the last thing in my mind. Listening to you talk about music. I mean, you got music man on your forehead.

Yeah. But you know music. I didn't realize you knew music to this depth. Right. You talk about the jail stuff and people think, oh, it's just surface music. And yeah, he's got a nice voice. But you know music. Yeah, man.

I love music, dude. I'm a human jukebox. Is that, is that, I mean, is it just natural that? No, it was passion, obviously. Yeah. But how do you learn? So it wasn't, there's no formal education. No.

It's just being, just being. just being immersed in it. It's being completely immersed in it. It's kind of like what you got me doing here. Yeah. You know what I mean? And this goes back to a theme that'll run through this podcast. I hope that'll inspire people of like,

don't be afraid to go be the worst at something again. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't afraid to walk into a room and be like, I'm not a good singer, but I try to sing. You know what I mean? And be like, I'm going to be the worst singer in country music. And I knew that the first couple of years, I'd be probably one of the worst singers.

I thought, at least in my mind, I thought I would. And I was prepared for that because I knew that if I stuck with it, you know what I could. only get better. Like I could prove my value and my stand power here because I'm a good songwriter and I think my voice is cool. When did that confidence come to believe in yourself? Because it sounds like in life, did you always sort of believe in yourself?

Or when did the belief to be like, yeah, I can't sing, but I'm going to get better and I'm going to give it my all. That takes confidence. Yeah. When did that? When did you get that? Nobody's ever asked me that, dude. Thank you.

Give me a second to actually chew. I would say that I always knew even in my worst the values my father instilled in me. Like I always knew that even when I was at the lowest of the humankind, that if nothing else I believed in myself that my family had instilled enough stuff in me to get out of it eventually. Through words? Yeah, just in general. Like I just felt like I had, I knew if nothing else that my ego, if I could kill it, I would just be willing to go work on the meat truck. You know what I mean? I knew that if I would kill my ego and really show up sober, my uncle would let me work at the dry cleaner.

You know what I mean? I didn't know where it would go from there. You know what I'm saying? So like when you have that and you're coming out of jail and you really want to do it right, then you have a landing pad a little bit. You're like, you know what? Man, I'm fixing to go like all out on this music thing. You know what I mean?

But I truly think that it was like early development of just Christian values too, of just like the family, just like praying at dinner and just like always having this reading the word in jail over and over again. And even though not living it is still kind of digesting it and it's going in. And it's like what's going in, the body's coming out. Yeah. We've talked a lot about that recently.

You know what I mean? So it's like just digesting this stuff. But I think I just got the confidence slowly as things started working. You know, I looked at little wins really dramatically big. When I launched my YouTube channel, like 100 subscribers to us, we celebrated. Yeah. We had a party.

You know what? A thousand? Partied again. 10,000? Another party. 20,000 party, 30 party, 50 party. You know what I'm saying? Like we partied every time that channel went a lick up, you know?

Right, right. Celebrate the big wins and the little wins too, dude. It's like to this day, I'm not on social media, but our birthday post did like incredibly well whenever you came and ran with me. And like my dude, my social media dude calls me, we're celebrating. Yeah. Like that's huge for us. You know, I called you excited.

I'm not like an analytic guy, but like, I'm like, dude, because I know what that really means. somebody somewhere that's been through what me and you have been through that didn't think we could be anything other than a f*** up heard watch that video put on a pair of running shoes

for the first time in their life and said hey baby I'm walking to the mailbox and back I think more than somebody you know what I mean a lot of somebody's that's the magic right you know what I mean you have such a way to connect with people and that's why I'm sure that's what it was like in jail because it's just like

it feels like that's just who you are for whatever reason you have a way to just connect and impact people. And as we know, you can be a leader negatively or positively, you know, and you have something about you. So if that's negative, there's going to be people you're going to pull negative. But if it's positive, like on the run, that's going to, you know, have a give us fruit for our labor, right, for our sacrifice, for our message, for whatever else. And I saw a lot of people that took that fruit and they're running with it because you just give them so much. much hope. Yeah. Yeah. Should we do it right now? What's that? What we decided to do in the blind

yesterday that you blindly signed me up for in the blind and I couldn't say no because I had a free day on the calendar. I say we do it. If you believe in me, I believe in me. I say we do it. So what do you is it the 18th? It's a beginning of March. Is it eighth or 18th? Okay, it might be the eighth. So early March, we're going to try to sign up for the, uh, the Los Angeles half marathon. We are. Yep, we are. Oh, I know. So we're doing a half marathon in March. I'm in, dude. I love it because I love that when we put this in the universe and we put this in the world and we spoke it. If we do the work, God will honor it. That's how that works.

And we've seen it now just in our friendship many times now. Yes, many. You know, we talked about this a number of times too, but you know, you were 500 and some pounds. I said, yeah, we're going to do Piscca together. Yeah. It's like that's not. No, no, Cam. Let me tell this about who you are as a friend.

I want your people to hear this about who Cam is. I hit Cam one day on Instagram, he's running up Piscca. And I go, dude, do you run that mountain every single day? He goes, pretty much every day. Sometimes X amount of times, a crazy number of times. And I was like, it's just a mountain. Does it ever get flat? He's like, no.

He's like, but it's beautiful, man. You've seen the summit. I was like, and this is all in text. And I'm like, dude, it's beautiful, beautiful. He's like, you're going to run it with me one day. Dude, I was 550 pounds when you sent that to me. And I was thinking, this dude's nuts. I think I went LOL.

Hell yeah, or something like that. Well, I think I said maybe, like, like either run it or get on that monument. Yeah, for sure. Like there's a picture on the monument, the flex or whatever it is. And that's like to get to the top of the mountain is one thing. But then there's a monument. And then we want to be on that.

Yeah. That's it. And so, okay, let's get you on, not just on top of the mountain, but on the monument. But how realistic was that? Oh, dude. At 500 pounds, I couldn't have rolled up there. You couldn't have pulled me up there. And if y'all got me up there, you would have had to crane me on the monument.

I can't believe. I see now we've been looking at. But that's you as a friend, Kahn. you believe that in your heart. Like you've seen something in me I didn't see in me. And those are the little seeds of friendship that start changing people's lives.

When somebody starts believing in you, when you don't believe in you, when you have somebody looks at you like, yo man, I think you can run this thing one day for real. You know what I mean? Like when you have people go, yo, I think you can do this 5K. Like I'll be there for you.

I'm coming. You hit me immediately. It was like when I announced the 5K, you were like there. I'll run it with you. You know what I mean? It was like immediately. We walked it.

It took us an hour and a half. Yeah. But like these are the little moments to make you go, man, maybe that dude starts kind of making it back to the big buck. You know what I'm saying? But in a good way. Yeah. It's not the ego way anymore. It's the confidence building way. It's what good friends do. It's what good

values do. It's when you can reflect back, man. I love you for that camp. And I hope your people know that that's who you are off this camera. You know what I mean? Like, these are conversations we've been having for years, three, five years now. Yeah. Yeah. That nobody would know that we're just now telling the world. You know what I mean? This is cool as to me at least.

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Yeah, you know, when you were saying that, I was thinking, and I don't know, it's not intentional for me to say, like, I believe in you or we're going to do this. That it's not like a plan. And I was just thinking as you were saying that, I was just like, It feels like, and I think I've thought this myself, but I don't remember ever believing in me when I was a kid. You know what I mean? Nobody ever said, nobody ever said, like, you can do this, you can do that. You know how, like it's kind of a joke that you can be whatever you want, your parents, like a good parents. It's like, you want to be president of the United States? You can be, but I don't remember anybody ever saying, I believe in you about anything.

So maybe it's like, you know, we always say that our childhood affects whatever. but maybe it's from that because as you're saying that too, I remember not just you, but like my friend Courtney DeWalter, she ran CIM down in Sacramento that Trude just ran and she was trying to get the Olympic qualifying standard for the marathon. And I remember texting her just, I believe in you. And she's like elite athlete. And maybe it's just like that's my default now

because I didn't have that. So I just want people who I care about to know that. Let's think about it. I'll give you another moment, that touched me was Max's run. Yeah. When you sent that video, I was like, right now, you've got to make a decision. How does your story end today?

And I was like the insanity of Kane to believe in that kid in that moment to send him that message that, that went into broadcast in the world of like a moment. It looked like. And at that point of the race, it didn't look like he had it. No, it wasn't looking good. It wasn't looking good right then. No. You know what I'm saying?

Here's the backstory to that. So the guy filming that race for him, his name's Tyler. he's filmed for me before too but I didn't know Max Wow didn't even know who he was Tyler knew Max is struggling those races are so hard

right and he is in the depth right it's like if you look at that watch that film I think it's called yeah it's called King of Moab but there's time where he's walking and just dragging his you know he's got his poles that you run or hike with but he's just

dragging him and just like walking and just like walking slow. They're dragging behind them. It's not looking good. It's like the pace is probably like one mile an hour. And when you got 200 and some miles, it's going to take a while. So Tyler said, hey, he's got, Cam, I'm filming this guy. He didn't even say his name. He's like, but he's really struggling right now. Is there any way you can send me a video for him? And so I'm like, okay, who is this guy? So I went to, I went live tracking on the race. And I'm like, okay, he was here this it can't be this guy leading it's got to be this guy max okay his name is max all right i can make a video to max yeah i'm just like guessing that's who this runner is he never said and whatever

so i'm like okay max and i'm just like i know what it means to to have somebody believe in you yeah so i'm like i'm making this video i don't even know who this is but i know what it is to believe in somebody and uh i made it and said you know hey and i didn't really have to know who he was to know that that's a part of this journey and this is like where we make our decision on how is it going to end it's going to end with just struggling and just barely getting in which in a race like that is still like a win or is it going to win with what's your legacy going to be oh what's the leg is the legacy going to be that you were all hope was lost and you dug deep and you caught the the the leader and you won this race yeah is that what it's going to be yeah I got chill bumps when I heard you

saying it too well he's like what's your story you're going to be so now yeah I said that sent that they played it for him and he's watching it and he had been following me and he's just like no way and he's like looking and now we're we're good friends now I'm I love him too I'm so tight with him he's like the nicest kid and we've had a great podcast we've run together such a good I watch some of you I watch some of y'all's pod I love him how do you say his last name Joliffe I don't know Joliffe yeah I don't need it jolif yeah we'd blow it that's why I didn't say it yeah yeah but I sent him a message I love this story know how to spell it yeah for sure but uh he's just a great and he's really good he's a

amazing talent and ultra run really cool story too though man but it's oh thank you but it's like i think the key is just when somebody believes in you it just adds it adds it changes things you're like especially you're not just letting yourself down you're like god this i can't let this person down now you know so that's where those words i believe in you mean so much for sure and And I think it's also knowing, seeing that in that moment from somebody who's been there. Yeah. That hits so different. That was another key part.

That hits so different. He's in the trench of it. Like, man, this dude's been here. Yeah. Like he sat right here on this rock pretty much with this same pain and figuring out what he was going to do. And that does mean a lot. That when it's like, if I was just hadn't done it before, then you can just write it off. It's like, this guy doesn't even know what to thought.

It'd be like me sending him a message. Like, yeah, it's cool. He's encouraging me. But he don't know what the fuck I'm going through. I'm hallucin't. Nate and out here, dude. You know what I'm saying? It's, yeah, it's different.

But that was, and that was amazing. He was 15 miles down with 40 to go. Oh, wow. I mean, think about that. So he's at my life, by the way. He's like at mile 200, the race is 240. He's 15 back. That's not looking good.

Yeah, for sure. And the guy winning is just a stud. Harry Sirbertus is his name. And he's a freak. So you look at it's like, there's no way. Yeah. There's a way. Super Max, dude.

Got the king of Moab. I love that, though. But it's back to belief, man. And you so to see the belief in somebody when they need it at the most. I'm an example of that. Max is an example of that. Just, you know, that's one of your gifts, man. God gave it to you in spades, brother.

You might have, you know what's fun about weird about God's gifts is? We don't discover them sometimes. Not that they're, but it molds us to have things that we can use to the kingdom. You know what I mean? Even the worst. God, because God makes everything good, right? That's what he does. His thing is, my buddy said, Forrest Frank actually taught me this.

I thought this was cool. He said he thinks it's like Jiu-Jitsu. Like even when it's going against you, it's just leverage for God to get you back in a better position. Like always. So maybe some of the not belief that came from your childhood has made you be the guy that sows that belief into people in a way that they really

need it at moments they critically need it. You know what I mean? Because you've been it for me. You've been it for Max. I'm sure there's everybody that works for you feels the same way. Every conversation I have with these people separate of you, they're all feel the same way. You know, like, just who you are, Bubba. You're funny, too, though.

People probably don't know that way. They know they watch Shit Talkers Weekly. They know you're funny. Oh, I just, I mean, I'm just blown away. Oh, I was thinking, that was another thing I was thinking about. So, you talked about, you had confidence. I just wanted to get this part nailed down. You also mentioned you read the Bible.

So your confidence, because I was just thinking back to my childhood. I had my grandparents owned a ranch, or both grandparents over in eastern Oregon owned a ranch. So I would try to turn that into a thing for me to flex on back at my school. Like, oh, my, so I was just wondering if it was like this for you. But I would say, yeah, my family owns big ranches in eastern Oregon. So that was like, that was like me flexing like, oh, my family's, you know, big ranchers. Would you, is that, did that give you confidence because your family had the meat business?

Or was, or did you have the confidence because you said you'd pray or you, you know, from, from your faith like as a kid? What gave you, like how would you turn that into confidence? Great, great, great, good stuff. I think it's a good mixture of all of them. Like my, like early values. Like even my daddy was just big on, first of all, my father was a hustler. Yeah.

Like an old school flatfoot hustler. He wasn't financially responsible because he ended up having multiple wives and just these were the, this was the story of this man. He drank a lot. Right. But he was a stone, but a great man. Like core values, like took me to feed the homeless all the time when I was a kid. Like our whole life was like a benevolent man. Like he was the man in the neighborhood.

The whole neighborhood came to when they had a problem. Okay. You know what I mean? Like that's who he was to the neighborhood. My mother was the mother who accepted every cousin on drugs that needed to get sober or was going through something. She had her own mental things going on. But like she created a house where anybody could come. If you were family, you didn't knock.

The door was open for you. Come on in. Whatever you're going through, lay on that couch. Don't buy, don't bring your problems in here. Sleep them off. We'll help you in the morning. So yeah,

your dad had flaws, but man, he had a lot of great attributes. A lot of great attributes. So I would watch these and they instill good stuff and me like sirs and maims. So like even when I first start going to jail and juvenile, I'd look around and be like,

yo, man, am I the only one here that's afraid of their daddy? Slapping the shit out of them. You know what I mean? For now saying, sir, to this guard. Yeah. You know, and I had moments where I would buck the guards, too, because I was a reckless, just egoed out kid. You know, there was just longing for connection.

But what really happened is, as I got older, I had to really accept the fact that I was trying to be something I wasn't most of my life. And that's really hard to accept when you overly commit to something because you're just so afraid of not connecting or fitting in any way that you'll accept any kind of fitting in or connecting in any way you can. And that's really hard to not just carry a shame the rest of your life too. And a lot of people do and they just live in that shame. So what was that where you, that wasn't you, but you're trying to fit in?

Is that like dealing drugs or what was that? Dealing drugs, I think was me seeing the hustler and the family. Like I had a brother that hustled and my father hustled. I don't think, I think I just did the wrong thing. But my father also booked bets. So there was a blurred line about what could or couldn't go around. You know what I mean? As far as like.

You had principle too. It's such a principle. I'm telling you. That's kind of where I get. People understand. understand me. I've never talked about it this much. So I hope maybe people understand that my, why I'm kind of living that unique space of like I cuss and smoke a little pot every now and then, but I'm a big Jesus guy. You know what I mean? Like I guess my daddy, you know,

I watched a man feed the homeless. I watched the man end up leave. When him and my mother divorced, he ended up marrying a Methodist minister. Still drank. So he kind of always was like this unique guy. I trust people who don't hide their, like everybody's flawed, but there's people who like pretend like they're perfect all the time. You're not pretending. You're like, this is me. Yes, I cuss. Yes, I love Jesus.

Yeah. Just the way it goes. Just who I am. I want that over somebody who's fake half the time for sure because they're hiding something. 100%. And so I appreciate. I think God would too.

You know what I'm saying? Authenticity. And it's like your dad, yeah, he had some. But the lessons that you talked about have been all positive. You mentioned the negative. because that was part of it, but that negative didn't impact you like the positive to what I'm hearing. 100%.

And I had older, I was the baby. So I had older brothers and sisters who, me and my older sister, I hope she don't mind me saying this. I love you, Shelby, you know that. But it was a cool talk we had the other day about moms, about our mom. We both have struggled with mother issues. It's something we share. I love my mother to death.

We're super close now. But you know, but we both struggle with it. And we were talking about how different experiences in the same household. And Shelby said, I used to feel so alone in that house. You know, and I was like, man, I hate that. She said, did you ever feel alone in that house? And it was such a cool moment for me. I was like, no, man, I had you.

I had Scott. I had Roger. Of course. I didn't know, like it took for, it took, it took, it wasn't until y'all left that I realized something was wrong with mom. You know what I mean? Like, because while y'all were there, I was the bell of the ball, dude. You know what I mean?

Like, I was a confidence booster in me early. But what I learned was, these were all little seeds that were sowed that I ended up having to dig up way later in life. The confidence I was getting was from like, in the moment was hustling. Getting little pops in jail, people liking me, just being kind of, people digging who I was as a dude. But later in life, the confidence I got

was going back to those little seeds once I got through the trauma of my childhood. Because I used to only get on podcasts and talk about all the bad stuff from my childhood. So this is so cool to finally be in, that shows the growth I've had in therapy in the last five years. Is to be in here being more like, when you understand, like even even at the worst of your parents, it was an effort

more often than not. And even if they gave no effort at all and they were completely absent. At least you have the gift to try to do something today. Right. You know what I mean? And like, so even when I used to get really mad at my mom, I'd be like, man, I'm so blessed. I can do something today because I heard of her, though. I can do anything today.

You know what I mean? When did you always have that kind of silver lining or? No. No, man. Started getting, years later of just doing lots of work. Yeah, lots of prayer. The seed you sow. I read the Bible, the New Testament cover to cover, I don't know,

hundreds of times probably during my incarcerated. I'd have a little Gideon Bible that I'd have in the cell with me all the time. And sometimes I couldn't afford other books or have other books. And so I knew the story. I knew the word. You know what I mean? But it just, I hadn't let it actually sit in me yet.

What was reading it doing for you? I think, I truly believe that it's like this concept of, that I live now that I'm kind of trying to help some other people that are trying to lose weight live with is you must sow positive seeds. Like I did understand that in jail. Like in jail, I was like, I'm not going to sit in here and not do nothing productive.

Like I'm going to read. Right. You know what I mean? Like when I'm stuck in this jail cell, when I'm out there in the unit, I can play cards, I can wrap, I can turn the TV on. But when I'm stuck in this cell for 12, 16 hours a day, 18 hours some days, 23 hours some days, I'm going to read. Right.

You know what I mean? I'm just going to just pump. I'm just going to try. Like even to this day, I can say a lot of words that I can write, but I can't pronounce. Right. I pronounce a lot of words wrong because I just, I've read them for years, but I never actually. I missed all of high school.

I missed the last year of middle school. Like I missed all of formal education. I got my GED when I was in like 20, I was 24 years old in jail. You know what I mean? So I was just lots of reading, but there were kind of blank seeds at the time or seeds I was using to weaponize.

Right. Like to be manipulative. I was just a horrible human. I was a convict. You know what I mean? So how would you do that? You would just try to, you know, I would try to get information.

I remember, dude, I probably accidentally learn more about the criminal. I have so much information about the criminal system in the state of Tennessee that I'll never fuck use again. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Where I thought I was a lawyer in there. I filed my own appeal one time.

Like I was that inmate private. You know, I was just like obsessed with this kind of thing. You know what I mean? So like to me it was just always, you ever read 48 laws of power? No. Don't. Is that Robert Green? It's a great book.

And I love Robert Green. And I think he is one of the greatest authors ever. I love his work. Yeah, I haven't read the book. But that particular book in jail, it got banned from the federal prison system because they were like using it. It was like further enhancing gangs in federal prison. And the federal bureau of prison recognized this. The gangs were getting way more organized than manipulative and stronger because this book was getting passed around.

Is it a leadership book? But it's like really about the dark side of power. Like how to manipulate people to get power your way. Oh. You know what I mean? And like I remember there was a, what I say now is there was a time of my life I wanted to live by the 48 laws of power. Today I want to live by the five languages of love.

You know what I mean? Like today I want to live by the Gospels. You know what I mean? But there was a time in my life where I thought the 33 strategies of war, the 48 laws of power, these were the books that were pouring into me. Later in life, it would be Malcolm Gladwell's Goliath. Yeah. You know what I mean?

it would be the man who loved clowns. It would be Mitch album books that kind of started softening my heart and making me be more empathetic about life and crying and seeing things different and like opening these emotions. I didn't cry a bunch until I was in my 30s. Like I wasn't a big crier at all. Like I wasn't a very emotional guy. And were you just like, no guys, you're supposed to be tough.

You don't care. If you cared about something, that's a weakness. For sure. I couldn't care about anything. I had to hit. Do you remember that movie heat? I lived like that forever. Like if you couldn't walk a,

from it in 30 seconds and never think about it again it didn't matter to you yeah that's what like de Niro and uh they're sitting there at the table at the end and saying that well whatever i think he's talking about his his wife and he's just like i could just leave just what it takes got to be able to walk out 30 seconds at any time yeah yeah and i live that way in every way so having that daughter it goes back to this for moments like i can't live that way no more you know what i mean i just i knew what i had to start changing what um this is deep thank you i never get to talk about the process of my change like this. This is cool. Oh, it's just, it's super interesting because I see, I see you now. And, you know, I see the old

pictures and I see the history. That's history. You know, you're holding your thing and the mugshot and the 500 pounds and I see all that. But it's like, I don't see that. Yeah. I see you being the, like, when I, when I explain you to people or describe you to people, I'm like, he's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever ever met. So loving, so generous, so caring. So I can't even imagine this person we're talking about. That's what, but I, but I'm interested. I'm, because I'm fascinated about this transformation of going from that,

the selfish drug dealing criminal. Yeah. To the most loving person I know. And it's like, if that, if you can do that, as we've talked out with all the, all these things that we've, you know, kind of our, our anchors to our relationship, our friendship is, you can change, you know, you can change. You can.

day different, but has to be intentional, right? Intentional. So I'm kind of, I'm just super interested in this. But one other thing. I know your dad, he died in 2018. 2019. 2019. So when you were getting into trouble going in, you know, eighth grade all the

way through high school, what was the conversation with your dad like? My father was very, uh, he, if you had to come to him kind of, he'd check in on you, but he would just kind of, you know, he'd just kind of, you know, he'd just, believed he was old school parenting so he was just kind of like yo man I love you I'm here call me if you ever need me you know what I mean well like when you'd go to jail though would he show up disappointed or he'd be disappointed but yeah I've been in juvenile my whole life at that point so he just kind of all right you know I hate to say it that disappointment factor disappeared a decade before I changed my life he was just like you know what if my I think maybe there was a side of him that

had accepted maybe I was going to spend the rest of my life in and out of prison or die young As a parent, people are always going, like, asking about your kids. So when they'd say, how's Jason doing? I'm sure he'd say trying to figure it out. Okay. He hadn't hide from the fact I was in jail, you know, because I've been in and out so much at that point. It's like, you know, he's back on vacation or he's on one of them concrete, you know, he's

maybe, he'd say something funny or try to make us jinger about it. He was kind of snazzy like me a little bit. So more quiet, more intentional with his words. I kind of talk a lot and have fun, but he was very, but he was still very intentional and funny. Yeah. But he, I think he just kind of accepted at some point that he, he, just loved me. And that was big. You know what I mean? I signed your flaws. He's going to love you.

He showed up to that, that county jail showed up to that wherever I was at every weekend. Did he? Yeah, every weekend. If he was in town, he swung by. It was a no-brainer. Unless he had something going on. He let me know, hey, I won't be here next weekend. I'm going to do this. I was a bad. You know, you don't owe this to me. He's like, I just love that I get to hang out with you, man. I miss you. You know, it's just cool. He's just like really. And that's, sometimes that just general support. When you're deep in it, you need. And when you're in jail, it's a good time to get it because you really sober up. to your life.

Like it's, you know, a real dry spot. And he, but he would never like, like, like, be like,

what the fuck are you doing? He would never like, not after I was, not after, after a certain point, he's just like, this is what it's getting. Yeah,

I mean, I ran away from home at 15. One of them cases, like it just wasn't no telling me. I was, I was completely Tasmanian devil, Bubba. Nobody was,

nobody was stopping what I, where my head was. I'm just glad God spared me through it. Because every attempt I made to kill myself rather intentional or not. You know what I mean? Was unabetted, thank God, you know.

Do you think God's hand was on you? And that's why you're reading the Bible, like cover to cover hundreds of times? Yeah. God, it's great. I always think God's hands on us. I think at the time I was reading it just looking for hope in such a hopeless place. It was kind of what the jail. It would make you feel better to read it?

You know what's crazy? We talked about this last night was it actually was different. I read it from the, I had no real, I had early childhood church, but not a lot of indoctrination. Yeah. I went to a Baptist church called Wichit Chapel. I wrote a whole album about it kind of, that taught me a lot about core faith, but not a lot about, you know, I don't want to say not a lot about Jesus, but just kind of core basic

Jesus, basic Bible telling. I was a kid. I'd never been in church. You know what I mean? So, I mean, it was basic, the birds and bees of the Bible. So then you get in there as an adult male kind of, a young adult male, and you start, reading just the New Testament. It's what I keep emphasizing.

I did not have a full Bible at the time. I had no understanding. And I started reading it from that perspective. And the more I read it the way, that way, this would really come out of my faith later in life would be like, I just can't read it any other way, but Jesus was just absolute savage. You know what I mean?

That he was the most fearless and bold man that has ever walked the face of earth. Like, man, you tell me. And they portray them a little differently. Sometimes popular Christianity kind of portray. praise Jesus a little different. You know, they love to say he's a rebel wowser when it is convenient for them, but they hate when other people use his rebel rousing in other ways.

You know what I mean? It's very it's that very pick and choose Christianity that happens. You know what I mean? But it's like if you don't do the pick and choose Christianity, we just look at Jesus for who he is, he was a gangster in a good way. He was a good, he was a great guy. He was the epitome of empathy and love as well. But he was also a take-no-bullshit kind of guy.

You know what I mean? Like he broke lots of laws in there. He was a criminal in that era for sure. They were looking to incarcerate him. That's why he was killed. He was executed. You know in this area, that's the electric chair. Right.

You know what I mean? Like, I know what people don't like those comparisons, but that's the truth. You know what I mean? Like in this area, that's death by syringe. They're doing it in these, it happened multiple times this year, still in America today. Right. You know, so it's like, this is when we really look at who Jesus was.

So I started seeing that. And I was like, man, this dude's awesome. So me and you joke last night. Imagine when you get that spirit. and you go to church for the first time out and you're like, question. We all read the same Bible, right?

They were like, yes, I was like, the New Testament, y'all are familiar? Like, yeah, I'm like, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. You've all read them? Like, yeah, I was like, where are y'all getting all this stuff? You know what I'm saying? I was like, and I get it. You know, it was a joke, but it's kind of real.

Yeah. But I love where contemporary Christianity is heading right now. I think it's back in love and empathy. I think Christians are like, and I am a Christian, but I think that like popular Christianity is like back in the world again. Doing it the way,

like it's not being preaching on corners and through megaphones. It's like through acts of service, through acts of kindness. Like Christians are back showing up for people. You know, the Christian community makes up 70% of the world's giving. Or 80% of the world's giving.

You know, so it's like, we're back in that space right now. So I walk a fine, line when I joke about what was Christianity when I came out and what is now. I think it's actually really trending back. There's always going to be extremes on everything, you know, but it's like, it feels like we're talking about Jesus in a really cool way again. We're not judging people on lifestyle stuff with Jesus anymore. We're like, yo, let them find Jesus. Like, Jesus, even down of my cussing, like, if Jesus really wants me to quit cussing, y'all, I'm back on my Bible right

now. I'm reading again. It's on my bus. You know what I mean? Like, he'll come to me. If he tugs on my heart to do something else. I'd tell you what, you couldn't have told me three or four years ago, this is how I would be talking on podcast. Right. You know what I mean? You couldn't have told me the first time I did Theo Vaughn's podcast seven years ago. I was on there half drunk. You know what I mean? That I'd be on here today, like having these like, hey man, I was a scared kid that wanted to be a part of something he wasn't even, you know what I mean? Like, it's just so much more like, look what Jesus has already done. Just, if Jesus is being patient with me, why can't the Christians? Yeah. He's opened your heart for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about him a lot more

loosely, you know what I mean? Like I'm more comfortable with our relationship now. I'm hearing, you know, to your point, like, everybody knows Joe's been talking about going to church and about Christianity and reading the Bible. And it's like, that's just one example. It's an easy, lazy example, but I've seen it a lot more lately. It feels like there's definitely a movement. There's a movement happen. And it's really cool because churches are also opening their doors again. Like, yo, don't run people off. You know what I mean? Like the church is back being like, like let them come let them sit let god meet them where they are quit expecting people to be the christian you know because like dude i talk to people that are you know i've had luck i've been

lucky to have a guy like brandy late coming to my life who has grew up in a father who preached household christian his whole life been won so many awards grammies dubs i mean he's been a face of christian country music and christian music forever coming to my life and pour into me you know what i mean and it's like you know and he looks at me like dude if we're talking about christianity yeah you've read the Bible a lot, but you're baby in faith. You know what I mean? Like, like, like, take your time, dude. Don't, like, don't judge yourself against what I'm doing. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

He's like, that's not a realistic barometer. It'd be like if I judge my shot last night out of that blind out of your, but on your shot. You know what I mean? Like my first ever shot on a live animal in front of me, it's no comparison to what you've done. You know what I mean? So it's like, and then when I see it that way, I get relaxed. I'm like, oh, I'm right, dude. If I kill 20,000 animals, I can be Cam Haynes. Yeah. If I really chose to wake up tomorrow and be like, I want to dedicate my life to Bowhunt, 10, 15 years from now. Me and you'd be out there.

You'd be like, dude, you're an absolute nut out here. You know what I mean? It's like, I believe that. So it's really kind of that same thing in faith. Right. It's like, I love that this has a theme through this pod that's like, just don't be afraid to start wherever you are. Yeah.

No, that's, no, we talked about it being on the path. Yeah. You know, and it doesn't matter where on the path you jump on, but hey, we're heading the right direction. In the right direction. And that's like, even when I go to church, it's like there's some days I feel like, I feel like my faith is super strong. I feel like I'm very happy and very content.

I got it and I'm like making good decisions. And then I go to church on Sundays and there's some Sundays. And Rick Reeves is a pastor there. And the sermon's great. Everything's good and I'm sitting there. Then we're supposed to take communion. And I usually go in the back just so I can just think by myself. And I'm just standing there.

And I'm just always just like, I just help me be the man. I'm supposed to be. The leader I'm supposed to be. The husband, the father I'm supposed to be. Because I know when I look in the mirror what I'm supposed to do, but I have thoughts. And I'm just like, you have these things. You're just like, God, I'm weak.

I made the shitty decision. I know better, but I did. So I'm just like, I'm back there and I'm like, please just help me. You know, Jesus, help me just be who I'm supposed to be. Right. And it's hard. It's hard. That shit is hard.

Super. And I and then it's like it's hard not to want to beat yourself up when you know you've you're not living right. For sure. You know, or if you or even like to me it's even like I can act like even you've met you've had examples and like oh you know you believe in the you believed in me. You said I could do it. But I know when I look in the mirror that I feel like a piece of shit half the time. You know, because I'm like I'm acting and trying to do trying to be the best friend trying to be. somebody anybody could count on but i know like i have doubts in my in myself right you know i'm just

like am i a fraud am i really a piece of shit but i'm like acting like i'm nice to you know it's like it's hard to i don't know if that makes sense yeah no more than you'll ever know and dude that's so cool for you to be that vulnerable too that's because we all feel that way yeah all right hunters listen up ignite isn't your average energy drink it delivers smooth long-lasting energy no jitters plus mental clarity that cuts through the backcountry fog. Powered by amino acids and brain blend of new tropics and 200 milligrams of clean caffeine, ignite keeps you sharp and pushing hard mile mile, whether you're glassing ridges, packing in before dawn or heading to elk camp, one scoop in your bottle and you're locked in. It's my go-to, every hunt, every hike, every long drive.

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And since 1931, that is exactly what they have been doing. I'm skeptical every year that this year's bow will be better than last years, yet somehow their engineers seem to figure it out. I think that's what sets them apart, is their engineers are all avid hunters themselves, so they take their bows in the field every year with the intent to make them stronger, faster, and more accurate. Hoyt is actually my lifetime bow sponsor.

Yes, I signed a lifetime contract with them. That is how much I believe in them. Hoyt is offering listeners of the podcast 20% off on all soft good items at hoit.com using code C-A-M. that's Cam. We're all a prisoner of our own thoughts in those minds. And like, dude, you're one, you're a great guy, bro. You know what I mean?

You're one of the best men I've ever met. And that's because you're so self-reflective that you'll sit around and go, am I tripping? Am I tripping? Just, man, dude, I know that feeling deep. And somebody told me this, you've got to give yourself grace in between your ears. You know what I mean? Like, we are only held accountable for what comes out of our mouth, not what we think.

We got to take those thoughts captive. We're not, we're just responsible for batting them down as quick as they come. You know what I mean? But we're not like, I don't have no control over that. You know what I mean? Yeah, that makes sense. What I do have control over is immediately going like, I rebuke that thought. That's not real.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm not even going to let that thought sit here because I know that feeling all the time. I know you got to feel it too. I feel, but I never, I always to hear the word imposter syndrome and be like, what are they talking about? Yeah. And then you get successful and you're like, even now, I'm like, how on the

fuck I end up on a bo hunting trip with Cameron Haynes? You know what I mean? I'm like, well, this is insane to me that this is where I'm sitting. you know like how did I you know so everything you kind and then even every day here I've had to about what you're saying right now is something I've had to fight here for the first time in a long time because I'm so out of my comfort zone yeah I'm so in a place I've never been it is the stakes were so much higher than anticipated it's so much more it's so exhilarating it is so intensely beautifully up and down and just just such a range of emotions you know just sit in just a little

blind and feel every single human emotion. And then you come back and you're like, dude, I'm embarrassing myself in front of all these guys. I don't know anything about this. And then I just, then you got to be like, you know what? I'm not supposed to do. You know what I mean? Like, of course. I don't yourself grace. Yeah, like I gave myself grace. Yeah. I was beating myself to death last night. I woke up this morning in a way better mood. You know what I mean? Well, Jerry and I were just talking about it too, but that you, your attitude is, you know, we go on these hunts. everybody has a goal. Everybody wants to get a big buck and get that, you know, the photo.

And it's just like, you want this. I hope I don't want this, but we seek validation for our efforts. You know, if we do good work, we want people to say, you did good, good job. And so sometimes that's dominating in our stuff. But we're talking, you have this ups and downs, the high stakes, the learning, but you've had a positive attitude, at least exhibited outwardly the whole time. Even with the mistakes, even with the what you don't know what to do. You're asking what you do or you're trying to make a good decision, but you've still

given yourself grace and you've had a positive attitude. And even if we fail or we make a mistake, you're like, it's okay. That's okay. We're going to, you know, and I've tried to be that too, but you're the one who's in control of how you feel. You're the newbie. this is brand new experience and you've like been so giving yourself so much grace and like had such a positive attitude about it it's blown me away because everybody has these goals and it's

like you can say whatever and say I'm going to this best place in the world to white tail hunt and you'd say I want to kill a big buck and that's like that's it that's it's only but you have other goals you're like no I'm trying to learn this is just even if I fail it's a win it's a win And every time we say stuff like that all the time and don't, but you can tell their body language or their words. You're like, yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I'm seeing a different, you know, your body's telling me something different. You've, you believe that. No, and the cool thing is I've got to prove it every time we get in a blind. Because every time I'd make, I've been made very few of the same mistakes twice.

You know what I mean? Like every time I'd make one, I'd be like, yo, that was that. Cool. we get out, we decompress it. I'd be like, yo, I think this is where I blew it. You think? You're like, yep, this is it. And we'd have these really cool moments

and I'd be like, cool. So the next day, like even just little things, positioning, sitting, drawing back. Remember the first time I went to draw back on something? Remember it went right here, right to my chin and straight back forward. Lucky, I had it. Yeah.

I could have been a disaster. Draw number one. You know what I'm saying? But it was like just, and then when I did draw it back, I clanked it and ran the whole, you know what I mean? It's like, these are things that, you know, once again, I've been standing in front of a target for six months. and that thing doesn't move, breathe, or stare at me.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like, and I'm smacking it. Like, this will be different. When that heart rate's at $199 in your throat, you know what I'm saying? You're just going to breathe. That bill of a box is staring at you. He takes a bite and looks over his shoulder and you're like, dude, what if he just rams here? I had that thought the first night.

That's how green I was. I was like, can me and Cam kill this thing if he runs in this blind? I was like, what are we going to do? You know what I'm saying? I like had this way. And I was like, what are you thinking, you know? You know, but it's like, it's cool. I truly love.

it because that's the grace I learned to give myself I learned to give others I'm trying to do better giving it to others it's but I really of like once again I'm not responsible for what I think I'm responsible for how long I let myself think it you know what I mean bad thoughts happen to all of us how long I ruminate them that's on me I can control that right I can't control one popping up I can control sitting in it with for 12 hours that makes sense you know what I can do I learn this in therapy when that bad thought pops up it's like all right what's what what what is this thought why

it here. What do I need to make peace with about a thought? Or just sometimes I just use Jesus. Man, get that away from me. I don't ever abuke that in the name of God. I don't even want that thought near me and just immediately refocused thought because when you can give yourself grace, you can live in reality too. Like I live in a reality of like I've never bow hunted. I haven't shot a rifle since I was 12, 10 years old or something. You know what I mean? Like in a real way. And then you're hunting from 150 yards away. Dude. Like getting that close to these animals, cam. I see why you've chased this high your whole life. There is nothing like the true, it's majestic.

I'm looking at a deer, so I can't imagine how you feel when y'all see an elk that close. You know what I mean? Just like, these, like, deer look like dinosaurs to me when I'm sitting in that blind. I can't imagine what an elk would look like. I can't wait until we go elk on it. And that's why everything's a win for me because I know what I'm working towards. It's me and you talked about this.

It was like, if we had to judge, if I had to judge what my, running history was going to look like based on the first 5K that me and you did together. Everything would have said I was never going to be a runner. Yeah. Everything said we wouldn't be on your podcast announcing we're going to do a half merit. You're going to run with me on my first half marathon attempt. You know what I mean? None of that would have said that.

You'd have seen a 470-pound man walking a 5K with his boy, Cam Haines and Philip Franklin Lee. Yeah. On the two bears 5K with Bert and Tom and you would have thought, that was cool, agility, to give that a try. It took him an hour and 27 minutes. I think Chris Porter timed it's like an hour and 30-some. You know what I mean? you would have never thought that me and you would run a 10K in the dirt all hills together. You know what I mean out here on this farm?

So I have that that's the great. I also have a proven history now to myself. I was talking about this on Joe's podcast of telling myself we're going to do stuff and doing it. Where I used to tell myself we was going to do stuff we didn't do it. So then my body started being like, fattie. I'm not listening to you, man. You don't never tell me the truth. You know what I'm saying?

You mentioned that I think that was with your family when they were out. there on that run that you did and they were cheering for you your first I don't know if it's your first run but you're saying that they they had no reason to believe in you you hadn't given them any reason you'd been lying to yourself your whole life yep and my body had no reason to listen to me your body your body knew that oh yeah he he thinks this stuff all the time never happens never happens whatever used to use to basically not being true to your word to yourself to yourself and your family was was used to you probably saying stuff and never doing it.

Never doing it. I lied to them. Right. So how, that change. How? You slowly start building a rapport with yourself. Okay.

And this is what I tell people. Don't. It's what my therapist taught me, Mary B and Miles from on site. Miles is like a mentor to me. You start little things you tell yourself you're going to do and you do them. You just, just that easy.

Like for me, it was real simple. Gary Brecker said getting a cold plunge and walked 10,000 steps a day. Too fat to walk 10,000 steps. I'm going to get in his cold plunge because I'm a man. I should be able to sit in cold water for six minutes. You know what I mean? And I'm going to walk a half mile.

I don't care what the weather is. I'm going to do it outside because I need sunlight. I won, if I ever write a book, this will be a chapter in it. But it's like I adopted the cliches too. You know what I mean? Like the fun cliches, you see all the, but all the real dudes say it, like, Huberman's like, wake up and get in the sun. Yeah.

You want to battle depression? Just go look at the sun. Right. You know what I'm like, dude, this is a neuroscientist telling us this. You know what I mean? Like, I should do this. Yeah. You know, so it's as simple as it's, but it's a cliche.

You hear it's your whole life. Like, you don't feel good. Just go take a walk in nature. Right. It's like, yeah, if that would solve my problems, Linda, I'd just go walk in nature. You know, that's that victim mentality. Right. You don't know what I've been through Linda, you know.

And then it's like, you start walking through nature and you're like, ooh, I actually it's happening. I feel better out here. I was like, I'm in a better mood. Yeah. I'm a better husband because I took a little walk in the sunlight and thought about my day and how I was going to. And then, you know, so I just started telling my body what I was going to do.

And then I started, and then it gets deep, then I started being able to manifest more. Then I started telling my mind what we were going to do. I was like, look, look, we're, we know it's going to take a while for the body to get here. Yeah. But I need you to start thinking now. Like what's an example of that?

Summer Slam. Okay. When I fell down, when I got the choke slam, Austin Thier, and I got up from them ropes. And I was, you know, big. And the, um, the Mizz and, um, Our Truth helped me up. And I remember thinking, right then I started telling my mind, like, we're in a wrestle.

I'm embarrassed right now of how this just happened. Like I should, I should, I got to do something about this. Like, what they had to help you up? Yeah, yeah, for sure. That I was just so big I couldn't even get myself up. Right. You know what I mean? Like, just the basic ability to be so fat.

Like, I'm responsible for a full family out here, Cam. Yeah. And I'm not even a man enough to be able to get myself up in a timely enough fashion. You know what I mean? But they needed to help me to get me out of there for the TV had to cut. Yeah. Like, you know, um, and I asked them to help me. What's even worse?

Before I went out there, I knew this was going to be a problem. I was like, hey, y'all, when we hit the five knuckle shuffle, help you boy. That's a big, you know, I don't know anything. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get up. You know what I mean? Or I might have to roll out of the ring. I'm not sure. You know, that's super like, and I remember feeling that feeling and sitting with it for a minute.

And I was telling the body to do little stuff at the time. And I was like, this is where I'm going to start challenging the mind. I was like, I want you to start focusing on Logan Paul jumping off that top rope through a table on you. And I literally, everybody talks about manifestation. I didn't really start truly trying to manifest. I've always manifested things in a real way, but it was more in like a natural just like belief of going forward way. This was me starting to be like,

I want to see Logan Paul off that top rope. So, but explain the difference. Well, so now I've got to start telling the body because you can't confuse the body. But for me at least, I can't tell the body, we're going off the top rope next year. The body can be like, fuck you, we couldn't stand up. Prepare your body, yeah. Yeah.

But I'm getting my mind strong. I'm getting my mind like, because if I can start seeing it up here. Yeah. Because I remember this. Somebody used to be like, have you ever imagined yourself skinny? I couldn't see it. That's why I shaved my face. Okay.

I couldn't even imagine it. Like at my biggest, I couldn't imagine myself skinny. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like, but I realized I was trying to imagine. I was trying,

my mind wasn't ready to go that far. My body already didn't believe anything my mind was doing. So my body double laugh on my mind thought that. You know what I mean? I had to start really small with just like little wings. You're like, I'm jelly roll. Yeah. Jelly roll is not skinny.

You know what I mean? The body's like, You, dude. So there would be little things. Like, I'm not going to eat one thing besides what's on my diet plan today. Like, just today, like a drug addict. I went back to, like, how I would when I first got sober. I started applying all these real core cliche principles.

Yeah, exactly. Just one day at a time. Just the old school, like, today, what I love about real alcoholics and addicts, when you meet us, we're like, the dudes are, like, if you ask them how many years they've been sober, they'll tell you, but they're like, all it really matters is I've been sober today. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Like all of those years don't matter. They don't carry them. like a trophy because they know that they could get up today. You know what I mean? It's like that was the mentality of like I'm going to eat good today. You know? Like even out here I gave myself grace if I wanted to eat some of

Miss Robbins biscuits one morning I would have and I was okay with that if I didn't. If I did or I didn't but I woke up every day and I just instead I told my mind I was like you know what? Because I gave myself the choice to eat the biscuits I'm not. Today I'm going to choose today I'm going to choose. You know what I mean?

Like, and I just continue to, you know, I just continue to push. So I still live that very today thing, especially with my eating. Yeah. Like, I just got to eat good today. That's all that really matters. I got to make good decisions. Like, I got to, the only food decision I got to make today is one. It's dinner and I'm going to make a good one.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's my next meal. Just, that's all the matters. Yeah. No, I like that. It's, uh, yeah, I mean, it just has me wondering. So 500 pounds, need help to get up, all this.

And this is after you've actually. made some gains. You did the 5K. Where does it turn into like an ultramarathon? Ooh. You know what I mean? Where does that happen? Is it the small wins along the way?

That's the, ooh, I'm sorry to cut you off, but you just made me see a good example because we talked about it privately. I've told you, I've said Cam Haynes a message. We should,

I don't know if we should post it an hour or save it for a real good time. But when I see you, I'm like, bro, we're going to run an ultramarathon together one day. Like, I'm that dialed into this thing, you know? And I think, it's like, once again, it's me telling my mind.

My mind is already like, you're going to do a marathon. But my mind's also, but my mind's smarted up. That's what it's thinking forward. But backwards, it's telling the body, you're just getting ready for a half marathon of March baby. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

You just tell yourself you're going to, because you know what? You're going to do it. Well, it's like the eating. It's one day to time. It's like you can't do that half marathon unless you can do a run every day. For sure. Or get out there to get some steps or be active or eat well. You're not going to do that unless.

you do today. Today. Exactly. It starts with breakfast. I got to eat it. Okay. It starts to wake up. I still fast and run for my first, because I still do three to five a day. So it's easier that way for me. Yeah. So I still just wake up, drink a little water, hop on the treadmill, go get in the neighborhood. You know what I mean? Like, okay, I won that first battle. First battle done. First battle done. I'm going to go eat breakfast and I've already, and at that point I done did my run. So all I'm thinking about in my run is how good breakfast is going to be. I'm a bad one. I don't want to put biscuits in me after I ran. Yeah.

I just went out here and fought all my demons this morning. You think I want a biscuit? Dude, I just conquer. I beat the devil this morning. Yeah. I'm ahead. Somebody got a kale salad for me this morning. Yeah.

It's like I'm on the up. You know, so it's like I'm already winning. Right. The momentum is pushing. You know what I mean? And this is my biggest thing to big people. And this is where I want to be really honest with them.

That first year, if you're over 500 pounds or 400 pounds, is really miserable. You don't enjoy one bit of the process besides the, besides what the, besides what the what you see happening. You will enjoy that. But every walk, miserable. Yeah. The pain, miserable,

sleeping, hard, posture, everything. I mean, it's just, it's not fun. You're breathing so hard on your walks and sometimes you can't think about nothing but just that. Like, you know,

like, you're not even getting to enjoy thinking on your walk. Right. You're just like, one breath in, one breath out. But I just had to keep reminding myself, man,

I did this to me. This shouldn't be easy. I deserve this. You know what I mean? Like, in fact, I want to remember every moment I'm feeling on here.

And I said this early when I started. One day I was out there and I was like, my wife said, how was your run? I was like, I thought I was going to die out there today. You know, and I was walking. And the next day, when I felt that again, it was the first time I looked at it different. It was your lectic muscle

vital mentality. I looked at it all of a sudden when it started when I really thought I was like, when I felt like my heart was going to go out of my throat, I said, speed up. Test that. Lean into it. See what it does.

Yeah. I bet it's resilient. I've been it strong. You know what? I'm saying like I bet it you know what it is this isn't my heart fixing the blow it's it getting strong right I'm actually feeling the growth of my heart right now like this is I feel it pushing bad shit out like I could feel it then I started thinking it that way feeling it that way like oh this is the good stuff I'm in the money now you know what I mean and um just super leaning into that kind of

stuff hitting the hill first me you talked about that right like walking straight up that hill it's just yeah it's just that what do you what message are you telling yourself what message What's the story you're telling yourself? The story you're telling yourself. Yeah. I like that. And so you just change that to where instead of being miserable and like, you know, what am, what am I doing this for?

It's like you could, you could, even though it felt like you couldn't breathe, you turned that into a positive. Positive. Instead of a reason not to do it tomorrow. This is strength. This is me getting stronger pushing out. Yeah, it's turning into a, yeah, you just spin the narrative basically. Yeah.

Just 100% like what's the, what's the, and it's also what we're normally telling ourselves isn't true because the real narrative it was it was getting stronger yeah definitely because me and you talked about this my cardiovascular system pretty good it's great that's great you know what I mean like I wasn't winded I stayed in zone three in zone four our whole run I think I spent of that 5k I probably spent nine to 12 minutes in zone 5 which is a little high but I mean I was hitting it hard on dirt and hill yeah but it was really like I felt really I mean I hung out all night we parted we went and sat down blind drew on some deal and it's like we hung out that night. It's like it didn't affect me at all. No, no, no. So it's time on feet now. Now it's just

trash in the body more, you know? Yeah. And your body, as we, as we talked about, your body response to what you ask of it. So you're asking this now, it's going to respond. And to the big people listening, there's that magic moment that happens where all the sudden you never thought it would happen, but you're running with your friends. And you're looking and talking about the topography. You know what I mean? And you're having conversations and you're bonding. You know what I mean? Or you're running and you're not just thinking about your next breath. You're thinking about how to be a better husband, how to be a better father, how to be more present in life, how to make better business decisions, how to quit using business as a reason to run from decisions.

Yeah. Like these are the things. Like now my runs, even if I'm alone, I'm getting to get in my spirit and really deal with stuff and, like, think and get my head clear. And I'd be, you know, I have the luxury to once or twice a week grab me in and be like, yo, I got to do a recovery two or three miles. You want to bust one out and just chat and we'll laugh the whole time? Yeah.

Like, you know what I'm saying? It's almost like I just got to go do it. You know what I mean? Well, you said another, you had another positive, or I mean, a powerful story you told on, on Joe's podcast too that I think fits in right now is when your son was scared to go down where he, I think he broke his wrist on the four-wheeler. And you, you were saying that there was a time when you were so into your own struggles. There's no way you could father your son or like give him what he needed to, to overcome his fear, right? And, but,

Because of, I think that either you went on a run, something like that, but anyway, point is you're in a better place to even be a better dad and give your son what he needed. He needed somebody to say, hey, you're going to be okay. And I think he went with you one time and then he did it by himself. But even just being a father, that took a different mindset for you. Totally. I've never shared this story. My brother, Scott, he was a surveyer, a civil engineer.

year forever 20-something years in a career and I've been begging him to quit his job since I started getting um popular successful successful yeah you know so I was like yo man please I need you here I'm buying all these properties I'm in all these different businesses it's be really cool to have somebody look over my back you know my brother's like dude I've been in this job 20 years I love you fuck you so yeah so I was like please leave your job and I finally talked to him and leaving his job and he's helping me with the property management and he's always been around for me his whole life He's been just one of the most impactful people. Both my brothers and my sister have just been great to me.

And I was on the couch one day a few years ago. We were hanging. It was before he even started working, four years ago, I guess. And my son was there. My son was probably five of the time. We wanted to go throw a baseball or something. I remember just having to grab Scott and just kind of be like, hey man, we go throw that with him.

And that was like one of them. I looked back at those moments and the shame I felt. Yeah. And it was like I had an even cooler moment. Now that same day on the farm, we had another one here, recently it's just me and Noah and my brother text me we were going to the UT game that night the basketball game and he goes hey man you want me to come out with the farm with you and Noah

and ride with y'all or you just want to meet you at the UT game and I used to always be like yeah come out here just because you know I was so big I'd be afraid to be with Noah by myself almost yeah and I was like no dude we're straight we've been we've been out here for like two days alone we're partying like we're having we're bonding like we're having we're bonding all day we've been riding four wheel just me and him like I would have never had the physical capability to spend days and days and days and days at a time alone with just my son and then you think, but that's what I'm supposed to do. Yeah.

As a father, I should do more than, if the world burned down right now and it was just me and him, I should be able to take care of him the rest of his life. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like, and here I am not even capable to throw a football with him or a baseball with him because I'm so fat. Like what kind of father am I? Right.

I understand. Am I hiding behind success here? Yeah. Like, it was like, you know, like, it just started being more introspect. Because you're famous all of a sudden, it gives you an out. Yeah, a double out. Yeah, I'm famous. I don't, whatever.

Yeah, it's a double out. It's like, well, you know, it's like, it's just, and then you look and you're like, no, man, that's not, that's not the right way to be looking about this. But even then, like I told Joe, I was so dark in my head. I was still in a place where I was like, look, y'all, we all know I'm going to die soon. Like, let's just try to be as cool as possible. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, let's just all be nice to each other here and have fun.

And y'all help people out as much as you can while I'm, you know, imagine me like, I'm wounded. I'm just, we all know I'm bedding up. You know what I'm saying? Like, just let me bed up, you know? Right. And I think that was the energy I even carried around. You know, I was the walking dead kind of. Yeah.

You know. And so how could you set big goals for yourself if, you know, you think you're on your last leg essentially because you're so unhealthy. Yeah. So when your mind's like, you're going to wrestle at SummerSlam, the body's like, ha, ha, ha. But when you tell the mind, when the mind tells the body, hey man, we're just going to walk to the end of the farming back. And then tomorrow, since we've been doing that a few weeks, we're going to go right out

of the farm and bust up that hill. You know what I mean? You know, like you've seen it in real life. Yeah, you were there. So it's like, these were the thoughts. You know, it's your smile like, you've seen the route. You know exactly you seen it in your hand. It's like that was such a great day.

I do want to go back to one, not back, but I want to interject. I think there's a stat that says something like 80% of our thoughts are negative. Yeah. You know, or 80% of what we worry about never happens. That's what it is. So to your point, we worry about all this stuff. It's like it's this negative energy. and nothing ever comes of it.

It's just, but it weighs us down, right? And so where I see that is we put up a video of us running, and I think we said, you know, I can't remember what it was, but we did 6.4 miles. And I don't really think I had the pace in there, but I think so I saw comments from people who I think are in this place where they're, they're just weighed down by negativity.

So one guy ended up blocking him because it's just a waste of my time. But he did say that, oh, there's no way, Jolly Roll ran 6.4 miles at that pace, at that stride or something like that. Point is, it's like how he wasn't here. You did do it. But he wants people to look at stuff. And I don't know if it makes them feel bad or if they, I don't know what they feel or why they feel it or why they need to say, no, he never did that.

Even though we know 100%, there's 100% fact you did do it. But it's just an example of people when they have a chance to be in. inspired, sometimes they're still letting that negativity screw that up. They could have looked at that and been like, holy shit, how amazing is this? What can I do? What can I do? And that's what most people are, most people are like, maybe I could do more. Maybe since jelly roll is doing that, maybe I could set a goal for myself.

That's what we want the world to have their attitude. We want them to feel good. We want them to be positive, be goal setters. But we know some people aren't going to. So how do we reach those people? Right. I don't know because here's my thing is guys like that I thought about this

is that in his mind if I ran 6.4 miles okay then that is a direct assassination on his excuses. Yeah. Every excuse he has. It is a serial killer

of all of his excuses. You know what I mean? Me being able to do that. Yeah. It's like because if there's not a reason or a caveat or a nuance to why it happened, you know what I mean? Because I remember and I'm only conscious of this. I love my mother to death. I don't want to seem like I'm down talking her here.

But when I was younger, she's way better now. Just so I'm very clear. But she would down talk successful people. That was her personality. There was a reason why people were successful than we wasn't. Even my uncle, I tell the story of my father, my uncle, she did not like my uncle initially. I don't know if she ever ended up liking them, to be honest. She always with all those rich snooties, they think they're better than everybody because they invested.

You know, like that was her mentality. And Uncle Beaver never thought that. He was an old country boy. Him and my father were best friends for the day my father died. You know what I mean? They were proud of each other. Right.

You know, but like she just, she could not accept that somebody was successful because they worked for it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like she was just, that was her.

I think a lot of people are like that. Because it represents, they need an excuse as to why they didn't go for it. Which where I think the problem is is that more often than not, I think it'd be cooler. People would just be like,

no, I just like dig where I'm at in my life. Yeah. Like, I love that I was talking to somebody, some high executive, I won't say his name, but a real high executive. And I was like, you're talking about his daughter. And I was like, of course, now she knows she's financially taken care of because of the father. But he goes, I go, you know, I think she's going to go to school to be some business woman. And she wants to be a school teacher.

She, like, her heart and soul is always since she was a kid. She wants to teach elementary school. You know what I mean? And he was like, he was fired up about it. You know what I mean? And I thought a man like this would have been upset because his son ended up following in the business and another one and all these other. Yeah, one daughter that was just like, it was all passion for her. Right.

You know what I mean? It was like, this is what she loved to do. And like, he's more proud of her quietly. I could tell by the way he talked about her than any of his boys that went on to be CEOs and executives. Right. Because he knows that, and he's sure they live in there too, but he knows that she is just every time he says he talks to her. She's just a pig and shit. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? She's just as happy as could be, you know? And it's like, some people is like, you don't have to look around for an excuse not to do it. Just say, dude, I just love her. I'm at my life right now. That's awesome too. You know what I mean? but don't sit on the internet and shoot us down

because we're trying to do something, you know, because we're just pushing a different direction. And chew the meat and spit the fat. That's my big thing in life. You know what I mean? Like, this is for everything I say or do, like, chew the meat, spit the fat.

What I know for sure is more people are way inspired by Cameron Haynes and Jelly Roll than people that are, more people are putting on their running shoes right now than are looking at them in the corner going, well, I'd do it if, you know, I was a multi-millionaire singer. You know what I'm saying? You know, because there are those people, right?

Right. I saw the comments, too, I think you addressed it too. It's like, oh, all it takes is money. Yeah, it's like money can't run 6.4 miles now. There's nothing you can put in your blood. You can't get a shot that makes you not feel those 6.4 miles. You know what I mean?

Like, that's what, that's why I'm here bo hunting. It's like, you can't fake that, dude. No. Like, I'm nothing against rifle hunting. I think it's awesome. But you're not sitting 150 feet with a cup of coffee talking to your boy listening to a podcast quietly. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like you're 35, 40 yards away from a live animal that doesn't, that is self-preservation that's completely kicked in. Yeah. You know, it's just, it is extremely hard in every way. You're trying to kill it. It's trying to stay alive.

For sure. So. And it's, and it's, it's a totally juxt. And it's like, but it's not, hope somebody hears this and puts on their running shoes. It was not being afraid to be like, yeah, dude, I love this. And dude, in that bow, I talked about it on Joe's meditation.

I've felt very few things in life that take the world. way. A good song will do it. Like you get lost in a good song, right in one or even listening to one where you forget the world's happening until the song's over and you're like, play it again. We can get lost one more time probably. We might be able to sneak our mind and get lost one more time. We played it back to back, you know?

But like, you put that, when that sights there, I don't care if it's a target or a deer. The deer is a lot more exhilarating, but even the target, like I don't care how many times you shoot, I don't know if you feel this way if it's just second nature to you, but still, even whenever I have that target in there, I'm still baby, but I'm still all I think about is just breathe. Yeah.

Where's your pen? You know what I mean? Are you breathing? Yeah. Right. Let it go. You know what I mean? You know, like that's all I can think about.

I'm not thinking about business, life, or any of my inadequacies. I'm just like, all that matters is this thing in front of me. Yeah, just tunnel vision, focus on the task at hand. Because you can't be successful archery hunting, shooting a bow, bow hunting, if you're distracted by life. Yeah. You just, it's just you have to make good decisions. you have to be 100% immersed in the experience. And you have to be reading that animal.

It's like, what I love about it is, and I've said this to you, is the world, the cities, everything, that's not real. That's not real. This is real. Out in the wild trying to kill an animal is trying to stay alive. We want to eat it. That's as real as it gets. Everything else, just distractions.

We're immersed in something doesn't get any more real than this. and man has been doing this as long as there's been man. Right. So it just feels like when you do it, when you are in an experience like this, you're like, this feels right. This feels like what I should have been doing my whole life. Right. And it's so powerful, but I just love how open you are to the whole experience,

learning the whole thing. But tell me like becoming a bow hunter, what has that been like? And how did that start? I mean, where did this thought come from? Well, our friendship. You know, I remember you came and brought it to a show one time. And it's the first time I'd ever, so I can't rifle hunt, which we talked about. Yeah.

So, but I always wanted to hunt. My son's getting into hunting. He's going with Miles and his son. Like, lucky for me, Miles, my mentor, his son and him were close. So he took him to kill his first turkey this year. Nice. But I, and then it was the first time that it started. It's all part of my change.

It's all a part of changing my friends. You know what I mean? Of like finding new ways to connect, not being afraid to try new things. Right. Like I think it's so important. Like I keep saying I'm 41 years old. I picked up a bow for the first time when I was 40. And I just turned 41.

It's been six months I've owned a bow. You know what I mean? But it's like, I didn't forget how gratifying it was to be bad at something. You know what I mean? Like just absolutely suck. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know how many, you know, everybody jokes when I say I bought a couple hundred arrows.

It's like, yeah, well, y'all didn't see the first 10 I wasted when I got home. There was somewhere in the woods right now. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, God, so many, maybe 30. You know what I'm saying? Just completely lost a row's forever. You know what I'm saying? I'm just trying to just get it back right.

You know, just like so many nights leaving. It was like trying to learn the drums. Like you would like, there's a joke. If I give you a guitar right now, I can at least teach you to play a couple of chords in an hour or two. And you can at least like fake it for at least a few minutes for somebody. Right. But if I give you a drum set, you're going to leave after two hours confused and

pissed off and tired. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like that there was nights I'll live. left with the bow worse than when I started. You know what I'm saying? You're just like, how am I getting worse at this? So it was just, but obviously our friendship, you came to the show and I remember this is the first time I seen one in person.

And you ripped it back. And dude, you shot it 100-something yards down the motor center's ramp. Ramp into their like loading dock where we go back a house for a venue. So, I mean, and you shot it between two semi-trunks. it was a sexy shot. And then I remember you handed me the bow. You're like, just try to pull it back. And dude, I could not get it.

Remember I was like, dude, this is insanely strong. And you were like, don't worry, we'll get you. And this is Cam Haynes for you. Right then. You don't think twice. You just immediately go, don't worry, man. We'll get you one that'll be easier. It'll be more fit for you.

And then you sowed a seed. That's what I'm, I look for seeds now in life. Like, I'm looking for people planting because I'm trying to plant seeds with people. Right. You know, I'm walking around with a cup. I want to give people what I got. You got something to pour back. I'm living life like that these guys.

You know what? If I got to give you all my cup and I don't have anything in my cup, that's cool. I just need to go home and refuel. That's the saying I've seen lately. It's like you look to see if, or some people look to see if the other person has more than they have. You know, and some people look to see if you need more. That's it. So it's just that perspective.

But when you're, so you said something right there, it was a seed you were, you were looking to sow or whatever. So you planted that seed. and you have to be looking for it. You have to be looking for it. Because there's opportunity out there for everybody, but if you're not looking for it, you're going to miss it. So you're actively looking, hey,

is there ways I can get better and grow? And archery was one of those things. It wasn't just a seed for growth when you said that though, Cam, like for the bow and like for me thinking of self-improvement. It was also the first time that it was another belief thing from you because I started my weight loss journey. And right then I was like, Cam's probably seeing me get healthy enough to shoot this thing one day.

Yeah. So then I'm feeling good. I'm kind of peacocking a little bit with that. But then it was the first time that I had blurred the lines of what you do for a living in our friendship, which was really kind of cool for me in that moment. I was like, it felt like an olive branch because I would have never came to you because I know it's like when songwriters pitch songs to musicians.

You know what I mean? Like I know that you live a life where every corner you turn somebody going, take me hunting. You know what I'm saying? Like I know it's like obnoxious. Like when I used to go to the bar in Nashville, all the songwriters, let's write one.

That's right one, which is, you know, I get it. But it's like, dude, you know what I mean? Like, holy shit. So I never wanted to be that guy. So then when you said it, I'd never even considered it because of it. I was like, you know what? I'm going to be Cam's only friend that doesn't bo-hunt with him. And that's going to be what's special to me in Cam's friendship.

You know what I mean? Like, I had that for a while. I was like, uniquely, I'm going to be the only friend he has, it never bohunt with him. And then you said it, I was like, maybe. But even then, it was the seed. It would be another year before that seed would start sowing. Because I'd lose another 80, 90 pounds. I'd come back to Eugene, we'd hang out, and I'd be like, dude, I'm in shape enough to run Piscka.

Yeah. He was like, no way. I was like, well, maybe not run Piscop, but I think I can get to the top of it. I think I can get on top of that monument, you know? And you were like, let's go. And me and you talked about this, because this was me making good decisions. I had a day off between Portland and Oregon. I mean, between Portland, Oregon and Seattle, Washington, I think.

And we were staying in Portland, and I just drove down on my off day. I was like, I'm going to spend my off day with you. I drove two and a half hours. for five hour round trip just come hang and just go because I just wanted to finally do Piscay. And I used to be like my days off used to be recovery days from alcohol and cocaine. Now my day off, this was early.

You know what I mean? Think about it. So when people see the birthday post, they don't know that. We've been to, this has been a theme of me trying to do behind the scenes where I'm like, yeah, let's go do it. This would be the best thing.

And then that day you were like, dude, while you're here, we should go to the bow rack. And I was like, let's go. Like, I mean, you know, I'm light enough then. I thought I was ready to hunt then. and thank God I had a loss of the more weight. And then Wayne hooked me up with that bow.

And I remember shooting that day. And it's kind of like the bug. You know, like when you do some things in life and you know they kind of nick at you a little differently. Yeah. Or you take to them naturally, like, you know, shooting a basketball. I'm not a great basketball player, but I just kind of naturally in my childhood

took to at least shooting a shot. So it's like I felt that for the first time. Yeah, you shot, I mean, even that first day, you shot great. I shot great. I took kind of naturally to music. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like it was, I felt that. And I felt that day in my heart, I was like, we're doing this. And I remember looking at you, like, I'm in. Yeah. If you'll have me, I'll go. You know what I mean? And right then you were like, we'll go on a deer hunt. And you said it right then.

You were like, I'll get you to a place. Like, you're new to this. So I got a spot for you. Like, you're definitely not ready to go where I go. Yeah. But I got a spot. We can't go. Right.

You know what I mean? And I was like, dope. And right then I was like, I don't honor this. And I started looking at it like back to the man stuff of like not being able to just spend a day with my son being physically entrenched in that. You know what I mean? Of like now it's like basic stuff. I should be able to, I should be able to hunt with a bow. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like this is just core man stuff. I should be able to sleep in a tent on the ground. I should be able to go for a hike and do a two or three day trip with just a tent. Yeah. These are like things that if the world. south on me, I wasn't ready to take care of my family for real. Yeah. You know, you can't hide behind a mountain of money for that. I understand that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like if the

world really went south right now, I was going to have to come find you and Joe and hide with y'all. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And be like, feed me, please. Here's my family. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I'd like to be able to be like, meet y'all somewhere. I think there's a lot of people, a lot of men who feel like that, but they'd never say it. Yeah. You know, you're, as I said, you're just so honest, you know, and I remember I was at the fights one time and Gerard Butler was there. And he was just like, I was down or right behind Joe. And he's like, and those celebrities are like, they're in the VIP up in the front.

And then I was up there. It's like, so he's like, we're just kind of BS. I'm a watched 300 so many times. So Gerard Butler is like the man, right? And he's like, so he's like, what are you up here? Yeah. And I said, oh, I'm buddies with Joe. He's like, so what do you do?

I said, I can. kill animals with an arrow. He goes, what? I said, I bow hunt. He goes, well, what do you bow hunt? I said, everything. And so then we had this conversation. And then he's like, he goes like, well, why? And I said, well, I said, the way I look at it is if you're a man and you don't bow hunt, you're kind of a pussy. Yeah. He's like, that kind of, he goes, that makes sense. I said, have you hunted? He's like, no, but I thought about it. He goes, I like the idea of it.

I said, well, so this is going to tie in again. But I said, well, I said, yeah, I'd take you hunting if you want to. And so I say that because I tell, I want to share what I do with everyone, with the world. I love it. I love sharing what has changed my life with other people. And so I tell people, like, I'll take you hunting. all the time, all sorts of people. And everybody says just like him, you know how many people actually do it? Not very many. So I said it to you. Yes, I'll take you hunting. Yes, we can do it.

But whether anybody actually takes me up on it is hardly anybody. I'm fighting every year because I buy these two deer hunts because I took Cheeto Vera and I took Alexi Pappas. And they had never a hunter before, but I love doing it. And I pay for those hunts. And it's sort of expensive for a deer hunt, but I'm like, I can't get, I can hardly get anybody there. This is free. I'm paying for it. I'm going to share the type of hunting that I grew up doing in Western Oregon. And you said you've always wanted to hunt because there's so many people, men mostly who said, I've always wanted to hunt. And I'm like, perfect. Here's a chance. Here's the dates. Don't show up. So the, the, the fact that, you know, yes, I did mention it, but then it was you.

Yeah, for sure. It had to be you. I can't make people do this stuff. I can't make people care about it. I can't make people, you know, you say, you know, you have to be, it has to, you have to be available to take this in and to change from it, right? And you are. So people say all these things, but you, you are one of the few who actually follow up and have now you've grown and now people are seeing this. And now everybody's like, I want to do that too.

And I'm like, you say you want to do it, but do you? And you said, and you are. You know, and that's, there's a huge difference between people like that. If you dig it, do it. It's like, go and go try. That's what I encourage people to do because either find out it's not your thing or find out it lights a soul on fire. But more than anything, Kim, it's like, I just wanted to be a better core man.

Like, I want to like hunting like, um, running, being able to walk long periods, hiking, being able to hold my body weight. Yeah. These are things when you're in prison to a fat suit, you don't even think about like in extreme emergency. I couldn't pull myself out of a hole. You know what I mean? Like I can now almost. I'm still not in a full pull-up.

Right. I want to be able to do 10 pull-ups, 100 push-ups. You've got these like super weird things that I think are just like super just we should basically be up. I'll give you what I'm doing right now. It's funny, funny. We'll talk more about hunting too, but this is funny. I realize that I don't know anything about any basic handyman stuff.

Okay. That like I am that dude in my household. It's like has to call my brother. We have to call somebody like the toilet paper rolls had fell off. And I couldn't figure out how to get them in. And I could have. I just didn't tinker with it. You know what I mean?

Right then I was like, who am out of my wife? You know what I mean? That like I can't hang a TV. I mean, I can hang a TV. But like, you know, I can find a stud. But that's about as far as my skill set goes. Right. So now it's like once a week I pick a project, get on YouTube, and I try to build something

or put something together while I'm home. You know what I mean? Like I should be able to, in the next year or two, I told my wife by the age of 45, I'd like to be able to fix any basic problem in our house. You know what I mean? Like at any given moment. Like any kind of just small drainage stuff. Like I'd love to be able to do.

I had to pull a pipe out, put a pipe in. I'd love to just be able to basic figure it out, not just be like a complete. Yeah. Yeah. somebody got to call the plumber yeah you know like I'd rather just be like dude it's a let me just see what it is you know like let me pull the drain out and see yeah I want to be able to change oil in a car yeah you know so like you you offering a bow hunting experience was on my list it was like yo I want to hunt and I can't hunt with a gun and it's also kind of my way of like I used to

use that as a reason of like my anger at the government right it's like people like you hunt and I'd be like no I can't hunt because the government took my rights back to being a victim and I did something wrong I was a criminal give you a little opportunity to get on a box about something and bitch you. Yeah, for sure. A little bitch, yeah, me, me, me. I committed a crime. Now they won't let me shoot a gun. You know, it's crazy when you think about how you sound in hindsight to be like, you know what? I could have hunted all that. Nothing in the law prohibits me. Rihanna got my hunting license super easy when I got him. She gave me this thing. I filled it out. Got a tag. It was that easy. You know what I mean? I just got to shoot it with a bow.

That's all I brought to shoot it with. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, so you could have been saying, yeah I can't rifle hunt but I can bow hunt you could have been like excited about it instead of been like yeah the f*** me I say can't own a firearm can you believe I can't be within a thousand feet of a firearm is that bullshit I mean but so yeah you could have been like that but you're like I can't bo hunt though yep even like when we talk about on I was like yeah man can't hear a gun but we talked about for like two seconds

move right on I'm like yeah but I bow hunt it's where I'm at now I hope I get the gun right back one day but if not cool I got a bow right and I'm a bow hunter now I'm gonna bow hunter now I'm gonna You are. You are. I love it, man. The lessons I've already learned in that blind will exceed way beyond blind lessons. Like, I'll remember them every time I get in a blind now.

You know, but like the life lessons that come out there. So tell me, yeah, tell me about like that just because now we've been here a few days. We've been in the blind for hours. Hours being like dead silent, not moving. What's that been like? You know, as far as, because your normal life is. you know putting on shows crowd thousands of people you know you're just larger than life figure your jelly roll right everybody knows you everybody face tats and now you're in a in a bohunting

blind right what's that tell me about the difference and what that's been like nothing is more of a um it couldn't be two opposite worlds complete chaos pandemonium traveling 300 days a year two to three flights a day. I'm going to log like 300 flights this year, some 400 flights this year. It's going to be crazy. And it's ridiculous amount of number of flights. And then to being sitting in the steel of silence. I've seen the sunrise for the first time not on cocaine in 20 years. You know what mean? Like the last time I seen a sunrise, I was blowed out of my mind. It's because you're up all night. Yeah. I look like an owl. My pupils look like dimes. You know what I mean? They were just all you can see is black. I looked like a deer. I had a day.

deer eyes. You know what I mean? It was just the last time I seen. I'll always remember hearing the morning wake up. Like, I never experienced that deep in the Texas desert. You know what I mean? Like, just, when I go home, I'm going to beat the sun and go do a sit, even though I can't shoot nothing.

First of all, I'm definitely going to put me a little bow blind down by the creek. I know a little spot they go drink at just a suitcase. There you go. But I got the trail cams tracking them. But I'm going to go sit in one of the wrong. rifle stands and just experience. I've never experienced that at home. That like, I never even realized that, Cam, until he was like, nothing's awake.

Because remember we heard that first deer crunching. Yeah, well, so how it works, like, you're in the blind early, well before sunlight or sunrise. And generally, it gets a little colder right before the sun comes up. So I don't know how it works, but it's kind of cool already. You're sitting there. You're not moving. So, you know, when the chill can kind of seep in your clothes a little bit. But we got hoodies.

We've got things on. We're good to go. But you can feel it get a little colder and it's just dead quiet. I mean, the most quietness I have ever heard in my life. You can hear everything. There's a dough out there. There's corn out there. They're chewing on.

And we could hear it like it was like we were chewing it in our own head. basically like we were eating cereal I thought he was I thought he was in the like Captain Crunch I thought he was in the blind and we couldn't even see him it was so dark yeah so dark all we could hear I couldn't see you you couldn't see me dude eerie dude that was my first ever morning blind experience so I mean just like never and it wasn't until the next morning that you showed me what was happening yeah so tell me about the the woods waking out dude so I was like the next morning I'm and like, why is it so quiet?

Cam put his finger up, he's like, I'll tell you. Then all of a sudden I heard one bird, he said, right before that sun breaks. I won't whisperer. He said right before that sunbreak, he was whispering over the camera, real weird, like a crazy whisper. I've never whispered this much in my life either. He goes, most whispering I've ever done has been this week.

And he goes, he goes, the first thing you'll hear is a bird. He was like, it'll be one. You'll hear one bird. And literally, right before the day, day break, you heard a and it was it sounded like a gunshot it was so loud yeah

and then I could hear rustling like insects or just like the small rustles and more birds and more birds and more birds and more birds and more birds and more rustling and then a little wind almost like the wind didn't even come until after the sun broke the horizon it's like

and slowly you just start watching the world wake up yeah and I thought about how many times of my life as an adult man, I spent only thinking about the human side of the world waking up. You know what I mean? Like I just ride around and car after car, plane after plane, just high-fiving people along the way and never even thinking about what's actually happening in the world. Like I watch not the world we call the world.

That's not the real world. We don't make up the real world. The real world is the 80% of the earth we're not touching. Right. That's the where we're scared to go. You know what I'm saying? Because that's what it was before us. We were having to walk through there with our peckers.

was hanging out and bowing arrows and you know what I'm saying it was a totally different time you know never experienced nothing like it beautiful the birds the beauty the mother nature we got a badger our first day you remember a little badger that walked in between yeah just like I've never seen a bobcat I've never seen a bobcat I've experienced so tracks yeah you taught me the difference between a like a cat track and a yeah and a coyote track yeah yeah more round yeah for a cat yeah triangle and yeah there's yeah there's like there's so much to learn out there but what i like so something about you know nature waking up we're kind of tricked you know you talk about the we're in the 80% of the world that's not inhabited is what we're talking about waking up but

the other part like you go to Vegas they have every light on you don't know what time of day it is right you don't know that nature's waking up sun's going down sun's coming up because they want you to think it's day all the time well we're We're at home, lights are on, everything's on, we're staying up all night. But when you're actually immersed out here into this and then you're, then you're part of nature and you're, you're appreciating it. It's, it just feels like, oh, this is, this is how I'm supposed to live. What have I been? I didn't know this.

This feels, it just feels like, I don't know. It's, it's so healing is what I always think about. I always say the mountains heal, but nature. specifically heals. And it feels so healing just to be there and just to be, just observe it. Right. You know,

and just be part of it. I'm, I had as much fun on the days I didn't get a shot. Well, not as much. That's a lie. When you get a shot, it's way more fucking fun. I'm not going to lie.

That's the truth. But I, I enjoyed the days that we didn't get a shot. Like genuinely, like they, they were still special to me because all the learning from it, experiencing the nature waking up, seeing these things for the first time.

being that close to animals, wild. You know what I mean? Like just seeing these kind of things. Like knowing that coyote was sitting next to our blind the other morning all morning. Like just that eerieness of like, there's a full-blown coyote three feet outside of this. You know what I mean?

Like just those are the things that I've never experienced, man. And I think that we're, and I know it sounds hokey, but any human, especially men, who haven't at least win an experience that once in their life, you don't know it wakes up something in you genetically. Like there's a DNA thing that happened when I put that first deer in that site. Yeah.

That I never expected to happen. You know what I mean? Of like a natural reaction. I actually kind of spent inside baseball, we've never talked about this. It would be a break on the podcast. I spent most of my life thinking when it finally came time, I wouldn't want to do it.

I'd be like, wow, you know what I mean? To kill something. Yeah. Yeah. Polar opposite. It was like I understood the full cycle of life in that moment. You know what I mean?

Like I understood who we were in that moment, who they were in that moment. I understood that it's been a tailed as old as time all the way back in the Bible. You know what I mean? And that this meat is going to feed a lot of people back home. And that, you know what I mean? Like, you know, this deer's on his way out either way. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It was just such a different. It's hard to explain, but it's a DNA thing. And I just think, maybe not every man will feel it. But I think every man should give themselves a chance to experience it. Right. And at least find out if it awakes something in them genetically, they didn't know. was in them. Because I know now I'm going to start planning my touring schedule around hunting season. Yeah. I wondered why Morgan and all my buddies, Riley Green and all them dudes literally tour around

hunting season. You know what I mean? It's like I get it now. Yeah. It's like I totally understand. So all you've experienced so far has been so positive. But to the, I guess building on that, when you do kill your buck. And then to me, what I was trying to to new hunters, and I did this with Alexi specifically, but you walk up to that animal and it's dead. And I said, we need to think about this. You need to think about what this means. We killed this.

That's a big deal. People kill things all the time with money every day to survive. But we, and I told her, I said, you killed this deer. You're alive. It's dead. We're going to eat it. There's a lot. There's a lot there. There's a lot there to consider this animal sacrifice this life for us to survive. So it's a there's very deep meaning in being a hunter, killing an animal.

Like I said, animals are trying to survive. We're trying to kill them. This sounds very simple, very complicated. And there's a lot of emotion in that. And so that's, I'm very excited for that because I'm, I know it's going to, it's going to resonate with you. It's going to, you're a deep feeling human. Right. And those, that's why you're here. That's, that's a big part of why you took on this challenge.

It's a big part of why it means so much because that's who you, I mean, you said it's in your DNA, but like you, the type of person you are, just that feeling, um, emotional person, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, hunting is even more powerful to somebody like you. So that's why I'm like I'm so much looking forward to. I feel like, you know, I try to make this hunting experience positive and not have pressure on it. But man, I want you to succeed so bad. Dude, me too.

What do you mean? Golly. So bad. Circle in the wagon has been quite a journey. I just can't wait for that moment when the hard work pays off. and their success and then we're there. And it's going to happen. But tell me about, has bow hunting, is it harder than you thought it'd be or is it about

what you thought it'd be? I thought it was going to be really, really, really hard. So I was off. But I really came in here like knowing this was going to be a different kind of a thing. Like it was going to be, when you said this to me earlier, it was crazy that you said 80% of bohunters fail every season. Like, wow. And I totally get it.

And I think that's a personality thing. too of those those that come back and don't kill it this year the 80% that go home and tell their wife next year honey and they're out on their back porch all year with their bow yeah those are the those are the men that are different yeah and um i'll be back next year regardless yeah you know what i mean like that's who i know i have no doubt now just like i was the first like i tell people if you see my first 5k nothing would make you think i was going to sign up for a half marathon you know what mean so it's like i never judge where i'm at on the start no more it's like you said i'm on the right path finally. Yeah. Cam poured into me

yesterday y'all. He said, look, man, I was talking about bowhunt. I was like, I just feel so far behind. He was like, but you're on the right path. He's like, you're finally on the path to being a bow hunter. Now you just got to go. Like, yeah, there's people that are way better because they've been on the path a lot longer. And there are people that might pass you because they're running the path faster. He's like, but you're finally on the right

just stay on the fucking path. And that was so deep. You know what I mean? It was like the same thing for me was in health. Like once I finally got on the right path and I felt the momentum of that direction coming, even though it took a to get the momentum. You were like, oh, you're right.

This is the right path. It's like, I know, I know what the law of attraction is and the law of human work says that as long as I'm willing to put in the hours, genuinely and fully, honestly and holy, that it'll pay off. Right. You know what I mean? That as long as I'm not cheating. Yeah.

You know what I mean? As long as when I go home, I'm actually shooting my boat. Yeah. As long as I'm actually, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, that's how it works. I can only get better. You can't get worse.

As long, I don't care what you're doing in life. If you follow those steps, you're being genuinely honest to yourself about the amount of work you're really putting in. You are actually putting in that amount of work. This goes for anything you're trying to do in mind. And you are being held accountable to when you're not doing it to the best level you can and you're getting back on track as fast as possible with a little time off. There's no way you do not gain progress. In any direction in life, you wake up tomorrow and decide to start going. You just take one foot in front of that direction and be whole honest with yourself accountable about what direction you're going.

brutal truth. And man, as long as you're holding yourself accountable and you're putting the true hours in, you can't, my daddy did teach me that. He's like, I almost quit doing music before it, right, probably four years before it really, really, really exploded for it. And I sat him down and I was like, I might just have to go get a job.

I was like, Rogers, my oldest brother's still in the meat business. He's actually running his own company now. He's killing it. Love you, Roger. But I was like, maybe I just call Roger and see if it will give me a job. You know, and my dad was like, dude are you really working as hard as you tell me you are I was like yeah I was like yeah he's like

are you really doing 200 dates a year in a van I was like I really am dad he was like there's no way it's not going to work if you're really putting in that amount of hours like truly not halfly not faking in those hours and learning from them and being accountable when you're doing it wrong yeah and correcting those mistakes along the way he's like it's gonna work I wouldn't quit if I was you he's like I feel like if you were going to college to be a doctor you've got eight years you're Getting close to getting that doctor degree, son. Yeah. That's good advice.

And it was real. It was like, and that was a moment of like, he's right. Because I knew, and I had to do self-reflection and go, am I talking about being a musician or am I trying to be one? And I realized I wasn't talking about being one. I was living it. Yeah. I was going and doing shows. I was getting in front of people all the time, consistently getting in front of people.

So I knew that it was going to work. It had to. Just like shooting a boat, you're getting your reps in. Get your reps in, dude. I just need more time in front of animals. Yeah. It's, you know, I think that's, you know, I think that's. a good lesson for people too because we know there's a lot of people out there who are posting

like they're working out like they're doing all the stuff right and they're not changing yeah right and so to your as your dad mentioned is like are you really doing what you're saying because a lot of people do just enough to make a post that's it just enough to make a post and then and then and then for for you to say like if you're being honest about your effort and you're truly putting in an effort you are going to see those results. So the people are saying that, oh, I've been doing this and I didn't get the results jelly roll had. He must have taken whatever. It's like, or maybe you're not doing quite what you're, what you say you're doing. But jelly roll is. That's the difference. That's the difference, dude, is that are you actually going to do? Yeah. I didn't, back to the guy with the stride comment.

Right? First of all, just for the record, not that this matters, but every time we posted a run together now, We post the end of the run. Yeah. We'll talk about this because I can't say with who, but the first 30 minutes of that run, I did a phone interview. Yeah. That's why we didn't film it.

I literally was, you were having, y'all were coming back to check on me. Me and Rihanna was behind y'all because obviously y'all are running a dogger or pacing us. You feel me? And you'd come back and check

and just see if I was still on the phone. You're like, I'll run with you when you're done off the phone. Yeah. Run back up and catch up with the boys and come back and finally when I got off the phone. So like, what, the first 30 minutes of that hour and 12 minute run,

I was literally doing a phone interview that's going to be in a famous magazine sortly. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, I just, but so the stride you always see with us is at the very ass end. When we hit that hill on our post

that went viral on your page from that run on my birthday, that was the last time we hit that hill that day. You know what I mean? That was the third time we hit that. And you ran the whole thing. I ran the whole thing. Three times. Of course my stride was, of course I was running my

slowest and lowest. It was over. At that point, I was just trying to get, home. So instead of looking and being one of the people out there trying to pick it apart, just be like, hey, maybe this is the end of the run. Maybe like what you just said. And maybe maybe it is legit. There's a chance that what we put out there is legit. If you're willing to look at it that way. It's like when I talk, can I share the Truitt story? Yeah. You think he's

comfortable with that? Yeah. I talked to Truitt the other day on your phone. And I was like, we were talking about his most recent marathon. I think he hit the goal, but he already missed it by the second, right? He got, he got under 230, so he got 229. He, he just, that was always the goal was sub-230. He, in his head, he wanted to get a little faster, a few minutes faster. Like his PR time, right? Yeah, but didn't happen in that race. But the thing is, it's like I told him, I was like, that's because you set realistic goals for you, not the internet. You know what I mean? Like, and never do that, dog. Like, it would have been easy for me to sandbag doing that 10K with you. You know what I mean? Like, and never do that. you the other day. You know what I mean? Even when we got to five miles, that was our goal was to do

my first five-mileer. See, that was all you. Nobody said we're going to do 10K today. You said it. I said it. And I, in my head, giving these conditions, kind of the sandy, tough running road, rolling hills, five miles would be a lot. And it's, and it's warm. Yeah. And so that, that would have been still a win, five miles, but we got to five and you said, I want to do a 10-K. It's like, dude, we got to do it. It's our first chance. I was like, dude,

I don't want to be that, that be our store goals. I thought about you and Max. I was like, do I want the story to be? I did my first five miles with camera. I knocked out a fucking 10K. 10K.

I was like, we got to go do this. But it's like I told True is like, it would have been easy for me to come over here and just sandbag it from go and be like, yeah, man, we just knock out a 5K in under 4, 137 minutes. It'll be cool for me.

You know, like I'd be my PR. You still get a lot of attention. Yeah, for sure. You still get a lot of positive feedback. You still would have got it. But you would have known I had more in me. Had a lot more in me.

I knew that at five miles. That's why I looked at you like, Cam, I know I got another mile at me. Yeah. For sure. I don't know if I got one boy three or four, but I got another mile to me for sure. You did. You know, it's like, I know that that's those moments of like, and that's why I am a truitt fan.

You know what I mean is because I see past the like, like, I see a young kid that's brave enough to swing a really big bat in front of people. Yeah. Like in a crazy way. You know, like, I know, um, I know some people. will think he's probably like cocky, but like, you're supposed to be when you're 25, broke to pull up record, push up record or whatever. You know what I mean?

Like, you're supposed to have a little bit of like, you in you. You know what I mean? Like, you don't run hundreds of miles and run paces at marathons like that, but not having just a little bit of a dog. You got to believe in yourself. You know a little bit of everybody. I'm going to figure this out in you. You know what I'm saying?

There's something about you that has to get here. That's a competitor. Yeah. I mean, you got to want to win. You got to want to go for it. So it's like, and I told him the story, and I'll tell this publicly is that whenever, man, my booking agent first talked about going out into amps. It was a real conversation.

It was like, should we risk, should we only book the smaller ones, you know, the 8,000 or 4,000 ones that we know we can sell the tickets to? Or do we risk going to the bigger places? And not selling out. And not selling out, potentially or having seats. Empty seats. And then you look around, you have to worry if your fans look back and go, are we the only people that like this guy?

You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, they were having these talks and I was just like, man, I don't think God brought us as far not to swing, y'all. You know what I mean? Like, I'd rather go out there and embarrass myself and not sell as many tickets and know that I just put it all on the line. And strategy says, the record business says, play the small room, blow it out,

and make it look bigger than it is. Yeah, say sold out. Yep. Optical illusion. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I was like, I don't care. I want to, but I'm not here for the look. That's why I love Truit. He don't care if he gets hated on it because it's his personal goal. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, pick on me because I didn't hit it, but this is me.

Yeah. And if you have, And we're not over yet. It's not over yet. What are you, and if you, that's what I'm going to say. If you haven't learned anything else, I'm going to try again. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, that like, I don't care about the look of selling something out. I care about people actually caring about the music. And I want as many of them in front of the stage for an affordable price as possible. Right. And the smaller the room, the more money you charge for a ticket because the higher the tickets in demand. Like, I'd rather go out there and just have cheap tickets and be able to give 20, $25

lawn ticket steal, whenever I was a kid. Yeah. You know, at least as true to it as we can stay. You know what I mean? And, you know, we blew them all out. You know what I'm saying? It's like, that's how it works. But we took the big swing. So like, when I look at Truitt, I'm like, that's a kid. It's not sandbagging him.

That's a kid that, like, is really putting, you could tell. He could have went to the internet and be like, hey, man, if I just do this under 235, it's my first Olympic trial course. Y'all just stick with me. I'm really trying hard. He could have took a whole different approach. Could have. But instead he's like, no, dude, I know who I am as a human and I got this number

in me, and I'm going to put it up one day. Yeah. And I'm going to try to put it up every time I lace up my shoes until I put it up. And then y'all are going to hate me because I'm going to come up with a new number, a new thing. You know, I saw, yeah, Trude, I love you, brother. You know what I'm saying? Well, one thing, and we talked about, you know, are you really doing what you say? Because I've asked him, too, like, he trains a lot.

He's obsessed. But anybody who's great at anything is obsessed in some way. Otherwise, you're just not going to be great. But I'll ask him, I'm like, are you running like at the end? are you just pushing yourself? Are you just actually sprinting? Because that's when you get the gains. But when you're putting in 100 mile weeks, 14 miles a day, there's days where you're just like, I'm not sending it today. But I asked him, I said, are you, I mean, how are you finishing your runs? Are you sending it? Or are you just like, just like a good pace? And he sprints. He's sprinting

through his neighborhood every run. And it's like, that's just inner drive. And it's like, that's just inner drive. So people see like and they think maybe think it's like oh this is internet thing. He's an influencer. He's jacked. He runs in jeans. It's like a little gimmick. But don't get confused. This kid grinds. He runs. He grinds.

It's like and you can't, I love that he runs in jeans. I said that joke on the Rogan podcast. I love that I love because that's where I love the music business. Like dude, like let people that are supposed to stand out, out. Show your personality. I love when people are colorful people. I love when people aren't. I love quiet people like Mr. Tim here at the ranch, the most quiet dude here. I love him just as much as everybody else. You know, I love them all. It's like I love the personality of that. Like, dude, like that's the shit, but it's, um, it goes back to it don't matter in what manner he's doing

it. He's doing the work. Yeah. Like you can't deny the work is there. Yeah, that's not up for debate. That's not. You can talk all the shit you want, but just know, it's fucking grinding. He's putting in more work than almost maybe Goggins is putting in a little more, but that's about it. I'll tell you, I'll give you this, the food addiction stuff is the opposite. So I have guys that I'm counseling with that are bigger guys, and a few of them

have really big social media platforms, and they get a lot of attention on those social media platforms for their weight laws. But they're not seeing the results they want, they're not seeing the results they think they should. But what's happening is, between me and you is they're doing the work because of the collapse that come with the work. But then they're going home, and they haven't

conquered the food addiction part. So they're treading water. They'll lose a couple pounds here and there, 30, 40, 50. I mean, you know, you keep working out. They'll lose big weight. But it's that whenever we get on the phone, it's just us, they're going, man, I'm trying to understand why I'm not seeing a consistency in the weight loss. And I'm like, Bubba, we got to do some work on the food addiction.

Because, like, it's so easy to show the work, but it's the stuff that's not being filmed. So it's not sexy. Exactly. It's like the portions. Yeah. All you see is the moment true. It's talking shit in the camera. Yeah.

You don't see them suffering the other 24 miles. Right. Of course my stride looked like shit on mile 6.2 the first time I ever did it. Yeah. You should have seen me at mile one. I look like a stud. I have my shoulders back. You know what I mean?

Head forward. Like what a postured running man. Yeah. You know, but it's like there's there was actually real suffering there. It's like with that is you got to go home. It's what's done in the dark that does the most work. Yeah. We only show you the snippet of the work to inspire and encourage and show people do the work.

Like let's all do the work together and create a culture of cheering people on doing it. Yeah. Because that's where it gets good. I'm looking at me and Rogan's pod this morning and all I see is comments of people sharing their stories. Hey man, I'm sober. Went through this. Lost my mother.

Battled this. 500 pounds. 300 pounds. Like all these really cool stories of like community of people uplifting each other. We post to hope we create that kind of a community. Yeah. You know what I mean?

That's the goal. But where we got to where we are for the shit that didn't make the post. Those 60 second reels or those seven minute YouTube videos that Truit puts out or like my weekly vlogs. where I'm on the treadmill trying to encourage people. Yeah. I was where I really won the battle was every time I sat down to the kitchen table. Yeah.

Every single time. You see me here. Yeah. You watch it. You see the discipline in a real way. Very disciplined. You know what I mean? It's like everybody else is eating casseroles and having, I mean, it's hard not to want to

protect. I mean, Miss Robin is putting her foot. Yeah. Yeah. You know. But it's like, that's just not. Yeah. This is what I have to do to get where I'm trying to go.

It's, you know, there's, I've heard this analogy before, too. But there's people who say, They, and I think sometimes saying, I'm going to lose weight is like this too, but there's people who say, I'm going to write a book. They get a lot of attention because they're going to write a book. Oh, you're going to write a book? That's great. What's it going to be about it? Oh, here's the thing.

So they get that dopamine hit from announcing the writing a book. It tricks them. So they got the dopamine hit. They got what they wanted already. They got the attention for it. Then they never write the book. They never write the book. Because they got it from just saying they were going to write a book.

So people, some people, I think, following this thing like, hey, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. They get some feedback for it. That's as far as it goes. It's over. That's it. But, and I had this slogan, I gave away a truck with this slogan, but what you do in the dark matters. Yes.

And it goes to what you just explained. But it's, yeah, in the light, everybody sees it as fine. But, and I had another hat that would just say, work all day, train all night. Because I had a job for 100 years. I would have to work all day and it'd just be like, well, I'm not sleeping. I'm training all night. So people who that resonated with, which I got a lot of positive attention for like I was like the nine to five guy.

You know, I would do all these crazy bohunts, have the success, but I'd still be at work Monday through Friday. And I would just say, okay, for guys like me, we work all day, we train all night. And that was, but the point is, it's like, it's not just that the cool, sexy stuff in the light that's getting a lot of attention. attention. It's like when nobody's watching, what are you doing? What are you doing when nobody's watching? It's the hours that nobody sees that really, really make the difference. Are you putting in those? And that's why it goes back to what we talked about earlier is that are you really putting

those hours in? And that's another accountability. You said it best, like, are you really putting in the work you say you're putting in or you think you're putting in? Right. Did you really push your, are you checking your heart rate to make sure you got it up to his own three or four? Like you actually pushed yourself to that point? Yeah. Did you see if you could ride that five for a second and just see where your body went with it? You know what I mean? Like, I'm consciously doing that on my runs now. Like, I'm, like, I'm really putting in the true hours of it. But also, and most importantly, for my fellow fatties, men at pantry.

Like, you just got to be really honest with yourself about, because calories are everywhere, brother. You know what I mean? Like, they are all the time sitting around in your face, digestible, and quick. Yeah. You know, that two pieces of bread you popped in the toaster because you were hungry with a little butter on it is $2.9. 90, 320, 450 calories. You walk by, grab two Oreos or sit on the counter right there. 100 calories a piece.

50 calories a piece. It all adds up. So it's like these are just those little things that are, so you're not like, I love when they get broad strokes. They're like, no, no, no, I ate on my doubt. I mean, I had like a little cookie or something. How big was the little cookie. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, let's talk about it. Let's be real with each other. You know what I'm saying? I might have added a little like, I was guilty of this for a while. I would look at this whenever I was trying to do my own weight loss before I could hire a nutritionist and learn about calories. I'd be like, okay, this is a calorie thing.

All right, there's 250 pieces of calorie in these two pieces of ham. 120 on the two pieces of bread. Yeah. It's a 320 calorie sandwich. Now put three teaspoons of mayonnaise on it. Mustard. And you know what I'm saying? I didn't realize that I put 600 calories of mayonnaise on the 300 calorie sandwich.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Or when you order the chicken salad and then put 600 calories of ranch dressing on it? You know what I mean? It's like. Oh, chicken. I'm healthy. Yeah.

I mean grilled chicken, but I put 12 tablespoons of olive oil on it. It's 120 calories of tablespoon. And I'm just, I'm frying my chicken and olive oil. You know, it's like. So look at the whole picture. You got to look at the whole picture, man. Especially when it comes to nourishment. If you have what I have, like, and I'm getting better because I work enough now that I can

eat a little, not, I don't eat worse, but I do have to eat more because I'm running more. So the body starts like. You need fuel now. Yeah. Now it's not, now it's fuel for what you're doing. What I'm doing. I still got about 30 or 40 more. reserves that I need to give away.

And I'm getting there. You know what I mean? But then I'll finally be an actually, like, oh, I'm going to run this much today. I have to eat this much. You know, like, but right now it's just still constant like cut, cut, cut. But that's the reality of it, Cam, is that I win the battle at the table. And I'm glad y'all get to see that.

Yeah. No, for sure. I've noticed that. Yeah, it's the biggest, it's truly, all this other shit only happens because that. Yeah. Like, none of, I couldn't be here, bow hunting. I couldn't be here running with you. I couldn't be, you know what I mean? all of that exists because every time I put food in my mouth, I look at it, I'm conscious of what it's doing for my body, why I'm taking it. And that's, it's that. Yeah. Does it help my action? What,

what is this doing for me right now? Right. A whole new approach to food. I'm, uh, I can't remember how the story goes, but, um, so, well, there's two, two things I want to ask. Um, one, where you're at now compared to where you were. It's just, it, even just a, it, it's just a, it, it's just a couple years ago, to me, you seem like a completely different person. I know they're the same person, same soul, same heart, same everything else. But how you carry yourself, what you're able to do now is completely different. So that change in such a short period of time should be a huge inspiration to people. But also, then you told me a story about your music man tattoo on and something your wife said to you about I'm married to music man.

Can you tell me that? I can't remember if that's, is that personal? No, no, I'm going to tell the story. I was super identity is a big thing. And I used to identify. And I still do because of my addiction, but in a healthier way. But like, piece of shit. Like convict.

Like these were terms I used about myself all the time. The self-talk was negative. All the time. Yeah. So even my Instagram bio, when I married my wife, all the way up to like a million followers, said, White trash, piece of shit, reformed drug dealer, active alcoholic, scumbag, father, daughter. I mean, a father, husband, or something like that.

Yeah. Like just all these like, I don't know if I thought I was being sleek or I was just such a lousy human. I just felt like about owning it on the front end and people found out it was a lousy human. Yeah. It's like M&M saying all his, you know, I do live in a trail park. I do live with my mom. Yeah, for sure. What are you going to do now?

I already said this about myself. So, fuck you guys. I'm all this stuff, you know. And I looked at my wife one day and we were talking and she was like, and I was like, I just don't even know who I am. You know, I don't even know, you know, I don't even know, like, and she goes, well, I know for one-on-one things for sure. And now, this moment just, like, tore me up.

She goes, I married a music man. And I was just like, man, that just like, Elton John's famous lyric married a music man. So I tattooed music man above my head. Just as a reminder that I am the music. music man. Yeah. It's like, because even then I was looking at,

we were talking about tattoos and all of my tattoos, the memories of them are from my past. So I'm not really proud of any of my tattoos. They only remind me of painful decisions or me trying to be somebody I wasn't. You know what I mean? They're not anywhere, any indicative of who I am. So I was like,

this was the first time that I was like, this is who I am. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Every time I look in the mirror, like that's who, this is my identity.

Like, I am a music man. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what I do. This is who. who I am. And it was also cool because I spent my whole life wanting to fit in, but never fitting in.

Right. You know, like, I don't know if you relate to that feeling in any way, but like always wanting, like looking at all these different crews and clubs or different things. And like, I would try to be a part that just always things just wasn't, you know, like, I just never found my identity in anything. Yeah. Yeah. It feels just real, it's kind of lonely existence to be around so many people and accepted in so many

areas, but still not really know who you are. Right. You know, just know you're always in somebody else's thing, never your own. Yeah, I understand that. And it's really cool. Like now I know what my thing is. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

That was big for me. And to this day, it's like one of our cutest little, we got so much matching tattoos. Oh, I love that. I love that story, though, that, yeah, she had to remind you who you are. And you got a reframing for your story. Yeah, for sure. It's, as we talked about, it's just that story you're telling yourself. It's like so powerful.

That voice, how you talk to yourself. Yeah. So powerful. I am curious. Like how did you this gift of music is it like it's just natural because you haven't had formal training for music. It's an obsession. It's just an immersive obsession. It's just listening to music. But like I've heard you explain like how to sing and talking about like Lainey Wilson and her voice. How do you how do you learn all that? Well, just learning to sing because I had to go from grounds.

It kind of like bow hunting. Like in this really cool way I got into bow hunting late just like I did singing. So I had to like go learn an entire new thing again. Like I had to sit down and figure out what notes were, what key was. Because I just wrote from the perspective of feeling. I understood melodies and stuff like that because I could hear. So it wasn't storytelling. It was storytelling, but it was like very like, um, it was just always feeling storytelling. Like I knew how stuff made me feel. So how could I tell the story to make people feel that way? And then the music has to obviously tie into that. For sure. Because that's a big part of the story. Yeah. But hip hop it was easier because you know you'd have pre-made tracks he's got a beat yeah you know what I mean

so then you just put your story over it so I learned melodies of course you know what I mean but ultimately it was just words rhythmic driven so it was just really storytelling us but then getting into music you got to I'm like okay I don't want to be the only personal music row that doesn't know the theory of music because when you get in those room those dudes do the Nashville number system they talk in like they instead of saying guitar chords like you know this is an e-minor into whatever they go yo it's a one to a three that's how much much they've broken it down to a metric system. Is that music theory?

Yeah, but it's different. It's a Nashville number system. It's a part of music theory, but it's like Nashville has its own unique system that it numbered every chord on the guitar. Oh, I see. To make it like easier for session players. So when a session player coming, they wouldn't have to chase all these weird chords around it.

It's like, it's like in basketball. Instead of saying forward, center guard, it's like one, two, three, four, five. Exactly. Yeah, he's the one. Exactly. But this court is a disc, this court is a two instead of a column this because they work better that way. Yeah.

And they're called the Nashville number system. It's really cool. I haven't fully learned it yet because it is easy. If you really know the guitar, it's easy. I'm still learning the guitar, so it's not as easy. But I just wanted to learn. And then learning my voice made me start listening to other people. And then it's like, okay, I give you an example.

Every time I always try to relate things to what, like, I love bringing things together comparison-wise. Yeah. That anchor point of where you pull. Like for me, it used to be here. hereish, but now because of the weight loss it's back here until I get back away. But it's like that you find where you sing from.

That becomes kind of your anchor point. Okay. And then you start realizing where other people sing from. You're like, oh, okay, he sings from this part. And like, once again, this is just me learning it from like, oh, now when I hear somebody sing, I'm like, oh, they're singing from here. This is the area. This is the area.

This is the area. They're like, you know, like Tracy Lawrence, one of my favorite country music series famously sung through his nose. But that was part of his charm. Bob Dylan was like that too, but Tracy was way cleaner of a singer. Give me an example. Bob Dylan would be like, hey, Mr. Tambourine man play a song for me. You know, it's just real nasally and real kind of swinging.

It wasn't like he was trying to drill the note home. Okay. Hey, Mr. Tambourine, like a rolling stone, like a complete unknown. He's hitting the notes, but he's just kind of talking him to his nose, but he's hitting him in the note because he's a guitarist and one of the greatest songwriters ever. Bob Dylan is the dude. But Tracy Lawrence was more like Won't you pay me a Birmingham

A little house is the way I have A little house on the edge of town Poor singing all the way around Put it there on a front yard swing You know like it was just way more You see how it's more sing yeah More pretty, it's more song birdie But it's still coming through the same spot

Like a rolling stone Like a complete un. You know like that same And see it's your moon's out And rumour baby bed Brother runs around With feathers in his head That's nasal

Yeah it's kind of nasal Right so what's an example Like another delivery system So like Laney We were talking about her Because I've stood next to a lot of Really powerful singers

Jennifer Hudson included Yeah You know Lany's up there Like Lany's up there with Jennifer Like when Lainey opens her mouth It goes from the pit of her stomach up through her voice

and then there's something in her voice that gives it a bigger projection. So not only is she singing from the bottom of her gut, it's very gutorial. She's singing it just like this big powerful voice. Like, dude, when she's doing that, I'm five generations

a blazing a child. I can't get that high right now because I've been up long enough. But it's like, she's like, you see how to turn that far from the microphone? Like Lainey is up there, dude. When you see her singing save me with me in the micro,

microphones two feet from her. It has to be. She is an anomaly when it comes to singing. You see like you see people who sing when they open their mouth, there's just power that comes out. Then there's like sometimes I think sometimes like pop princess is like I don't know if Tate McCrae has a good voice. Maybe she does. But sometimes it's like more of a show than a delivery like then the power delivery. Yeah for sure. I love the Whitney Houston like they wouldn't even need a mic for sure. That's how Laney is. No, Luke Combs, Cody Johnson. Okay.

Cody Johnson. Same thing. Dude, when Cody Johnson sings that last verse of T. You can't, and T. I mean, dude, he is like, he's off that microphone a foot and a half when you watch him with his guitar like this up on his chest because you know the Cowboys, the higher the guitar, the closer to God. The higher the guitar, the closer to God you are.

But the more Texas boys play high. And Cody Johnson just, he's another one. It's just that big old. He won vocalist of the year this year, male vocalist of the year at the CMAs. he deserved it. Stapleton's won it like eight or nine times. Luke's one of like two or three, but it's like Cody's up there with Stapleton. Right. Like Cody's up there with Luke.

Like Cody Johnson has a voice. But then there's other people that we talked about that is not that their voice is extremely powerful. It's that their voice is just extremely rich. It's just really good. Like give me an example. Morgan Wallin to me has the just easiest to listen to voice ever. You know what I mean? And he's a great singer.

Like if Morgan wanted to sing really. powerful. But he does on that a girlie pulls by the bed you ain't living this wrong. He really takes it there. Yeah. But like Morgan's also just so swaggy. It's just so confident.

Last night we let the liquor talk. I can't remember everything we said, but we said it off. She told me that I wish you had somebody I never met. But some of you baby, some is telling me this ain't over. Yeah, it's just so

fucking Morgan. Yeah. And I love that because there's no doubt who that is. There's no doubt. Note one, the moment his voice comes on, you're like, that's fucking Morgan, why. You know what I mean? Like other artists, I won't say their names. We talked about him, though.

They're like, note three or four, which is still really fast. Yeah. I'm a three or four artist. For the record, I'm not dissing nobody. I mean, the music stuff, the delivery, the different styles. So freaking interesting. I just, I can, I could sit here and listen to you talk about music for a I love it, man.

I'm just, this also comes from being a fan, just like listening to it so much and watching it, being proud of it. people and just seeing what works for people and why. I'm so fascinated with that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? I'm like, why does that work for that person or not this person? Right. I mean, what's the difference?

Is it hours behind in the dark? You know what I mean? Or is it just unique signature things in the way they approach? Right. It's just really cool to watch. A lot of cool nuances in art. Well, in speaking of music and accomplishments, yes, or it wasn't yesterday. I guess it was the day before, but your announcement that, or Joe had an announcement

from Craig Morgan about the grand old opery. Tell me about that. So I don't know. I can call, I still haven't got to talk to Joe about afterwards, see how this story worked out. But when they called me, they were like, hey man, Joe called. He wants you to get on the pod.

And I didn't say why. I didn't ask. I was just like, dude, anytime Joe's a friend. Yeah, no. But two. If he says, you're like, yeah, when.

Please, Joe, thank you. As many, you could call me once a week, I'd fly down here to be on your product. Just to get to talk to you. I learned so much from talking to Joe, too. Yeah. Also, I mean, it's just like, please, God, thank you for sharing always. Just anytime Joe shares his platform is just like, he doesn't have to do that, dude.

Just because we're friends, like, he didn't know that to any of us. You know what I mean? But I just assumed Joe was like probably seeing the weight loss stuff and wanted to talk about it. So in my mind, I'm like making notes about the weight loss. I'm like, oh, I know what Joe wants to talk about. This is about the weight loss. And management told me yesterday it wasn't even about the weight loss. We reached out to Joe that grand old opera and my management team had reached out to Joe and said,

hey, we think this might be one of the coolest ways to ever do this. Yeah. So I don't know where the truth lies in the middle. of all that, you know, but what I thought, I never got to talk to Joe about it, but I just assume I'm there to talk about weight. So I'm with my little notes. And at the end, he pulls up the video of me at the Granite Lopry. And the way he brings it up so casual, I thought we were getting out of there. You know how Joe will just get you out of the pod. Like, yeah, yeah. That's it. You got anything? Let's watch this video and go. You know, someone laughing

on the way out. Yeah. And I looked up and it was my Granite Lopry debut. And I immediately started getting emotional watching it because I thought he was showing it to me to show how far I came. You know what I mean? Because this was me at like peak fat jelly roll. Big boy. And I remember being so emotional that night on stage because I just remember thinking, and I said this on Rogan's podcast, that being like, man, I write, at least when I die from this obesity, my kids won't think I was a loser. You know what I mean? Like, I've done cool stuff.

Like, I've been at the Grand Ole Opry now. I've sold records. Like, I've been on Joe Rogan. Like, I've done cool things with my life. Like, oh, you know what I mean? Like, that's how much I was just expecting death. You know what I mean? And so I just thought I was like having that reflection.

I was feeling what I was feeling then in that moment. Like, man, I remember how special. so that night was like, you know, just man, the grand old opry what it means. And then Craig Morgan pops up on the screen. And I could tell by the background it was maroon. I was like, that's an opera seat. Yeah. Even though they had it cut in really close.

I'm so glad we're going to talk about this. They had it cut in really close. But right then I was like, that's an opry seat. That's an opery seat. And right then I was like. Were you wondering? Like, well, I knew. Right then I felt it.

I was like, because then when it went out, he's like, who'd have thought I'd be back here at the garage. I just threw my headphones up. I didn't actually hear Craig Morgan invite me to be a member for the record. I just know that's what he was doing. Your reaction was incredible. Dude, it was just so not. You heard. I cried about it the other night and we talked about it. Just privately. Yeah. I just never, you know, we have a country music hall of fame, which I have an exhibit in that I'm super proud of. It's been there for a couple years and I'm hoping to add more

stuff to the exhibit. I'm just honored they think of me. They put my face on the side of country music hall of fame. That meant a lot. But long before that building was there, the grand old opera is what everybody, being a member of the grand old opera is the holy grail of country music. is the Grammys of country music. It's the Oscars. It's the Tony. It's the Emmy. You know what I mean?

It's the EGOT of country music. It's every big thing you can get in every other film. You know what I mean? It's like if you were a Broadway person, you spent your whole life wanting a Tony. If you're a country music singer, whether you won't admit it or not, something that you wanted to be a member,

or at least play the Grammy. Not even be a member. Most of us don't think that's realistic. We just want to play it. I remember when I went there to watch you the first time I saw you. And I remember you, taking me through the names because there's all the members there and we were looking at all the

names and it's like you you had a story for each one of them because you know you've grown up in Nashville Antioch but you know the grand old opera you know the history and then I was curious too is like if you ever thought that when you got into country because I still see comments about like oh he's a rapper drug deal or whatever so did you think that country music would never accept you in that way in some ways yeah I think so and then to get this acknowledgement and acceptance is is that part of the why it means so much also but it means so much because it's just an incredible accomplishment but maybe for you specifically yeah man it's like all the above especially being a local boy too but like I also keep thinking about God and

his redemption plan of like he redeemed me in the same place that I broke you know what I mean like he brought me back like that that is a story only God could be the author of that you take a convicted felon rapper from Nashville, Tennessee, that in his late 30s gets in the country music business after just being nothing but a fuck-up, being nothing but a failed musician, being nothing but a failed rapper, just the story over and over again.

And then you not only bring him, you give him a night and let him have a debut at the Grand Ole Opry. To me, that was just the biggest good, like God showing like, how can y'all deny this is me? How can anybody say this is anything but God's doing? And then whenever they go, oh, Jelly Rolls a clone and he's satanic, God's like, we'll make them a member.

Tell me that's not God. You know what I mean? Jelly don't have no relationship with God. We're going to send the biggest Christian music artist in this decade over to do a song with him of the last five years. You know what I mean? Brennan Lake. Like that God just, I feel like this is all God.

Yeah. I know it sounds crazy, but I can't point. I don't know. I didn't deserve any of it besides being willing to share. show up. I wasn't, you know, I was just willing. Right. Right. And every, every slight used against you, he's turned into, he's like, okay, well, I'll address that one. Yeah. Yeah, he's not country. No. I'm making a member of the grand a lot. Yeah. That's what I, it's just incredible. But I also want you to show me your tattoo on your arm. We didn't, yes, I blew this so bad. So this will probably

be a big story anyways. I had been the first time, big news announcement counted for me. I have been, I haven't been hiding. I just hadn't talked about it. I've been covering up all my old tattoos where I'm a new creation. Because they were bad, negative memories. Negative memories. Negative stuff.

And it's like a new man, new creation, new playground, new playmates, new everything. Yeah. New tattoos. And I covered the left arm first and I put Witsett Chapel on there,

the old church. I put a big cross on the inside. Like I've got this, the lower part of this arm's almost finished. I just started this one before I went to Australia. And that's the Riemann Auditorium, right there. WSM is the first radio station that broadcasts it and still does broadcast the Grand Ole Opry live from WSM every two nights a week.

It might be three minutes. This said Grand Old Opry right here. That is the Grand Ole Opry stage right there, sitting on top of the Grand Ole Opry radio station logo, sitting on top of where the Grand Ole Opry first started at the Raman Auditorium before it moved to the Opry house in the 70s. So like that's how much the Grand Ole Opry means to me as a local. Just like as a country music fan, like having that right there is. this is dude I didn't tattoo that thing and I played it to me it was just it was a local thing like it was just like getting the rhyme and like and now you're a member I'm a member dude and they asked me to play the grand old opera the first time the first time I played the rhyman I was at the rhyme and making my debut the home of the original grand old opera before I moved to the opera house and then the opera came and invited me there there well I meant when when I went there to watch you you had me go stand on the actual old wood yeah in the ground from the circle right there in the middle from the circle yeah in the middle it's like just and explaining to me the history I just saw it. You don't know how many musicians just heard that you stood there that are just losing their mind.

Like, oh my God, I want to stand there so bad. Well, I wanted to tell that story just so people understood how much the Opry means to you. Yeah. And that, that's why that you had that reaction on Rogan's podcast. It's so beautiful. It's, um, look up Grand Ole Opry. I haven't looked it up in a long time, but Grand Ole Opry, uh, membership, um, uh, memberships, uh, ask or whatever. whatever, how you'd look it up, however you'd look that up.

I mean, my reaction, Luke Combs, Kelsey, up and Laney. Like, there's very few country artists stood on that stage and don't snot rock it the night somebody walks out. Yeah. What made it extra special for me was that I got to do it on the biggest platform ever with a dude I consider a friend. You know what I mean? That set it up to surprise me with, you know,

just like one of the coolest things in country media. Like, it's just... So crazy. It's once again, only a story that God, could be the author of. You know what I mean? Like it's truly a story that only God could be the author of. Well, I'm proud of you. I'm happy for you. And it's, yeah, it's just beautiful to see. And man, we have to go hunting. Is it time to go kill a buck? It's time to go kill a buck. But I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you and how much I love you and how thankful I am for your friendship.

Oh, dude. I love you. I love the whole family, Tanner. Sure, the boys know it. your family, Cam. My wife loves you. She's not very approving of my friend group at times. And every time she hasn't liked her friend, she's been right. And she loves you. So every time she has liked her friend, she's been right. Love you too, Bunny. So thank you for your friendship, dog. It's truly been one of the, as you, I love that that word means a lot in your, your profession is that it's an anchor in my life. It's one of my anchor points. I look at our friendship as an anchor point. It's a constant motivation. Every time you're on my YouTube feed, I mean, we talk all the time, but just seeing you on my YouTube feed.

Yeah. And Joe said this yesterday. It was like, maybe you haven't found the Cam Haynes friend yet that you're looking for. But you still have Cam. You have the shit talkers.

You have the keep hammering collective. Like until you find that right group of friend groups, start manifesting you want it now and just listening. Listen to the kind of people you want to be around. Just be the third quiet person in the room with us for that. Well, yeah, that's well said.

It's, yeah, I'm very, very, I never thought this would happen. I never thought we'd become such good friends. but it's not over yet. We're going to be hunting.

We're going to be elk hunting. We're going to be running marathons, starting with the LA half coming up and hunting tonight. I'm under music, man, I want to add ultramarathon runner and bow hunter. That's right. My bio has only said music man for like three years now.

Love it. I want to add bow hunter and ultramarathon. We're going to make it happen, brother. Well, thank you. Thanks for the time. Hope you guys enjoy the talk. Keep hammering. to blame they sent the hate it fuels my pace I am Roy tough I am the change the

fuel in dirt feeling like camhanks oh give me the mods nobody wants I'll give me my heart I carry me to work give me that impossible task I'll give you that unbreakable courage give me that right-th-th-th question on earth that