Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 197 - Jax Siddall

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

Jax Siddall - highly competitive American distance runner and educator. Jax recently smashed the Eugene Marathon men's course record, running 2:15:02 and securing an Olympic Trials Qualifying time in his very first attempt at the 26.2-mile distance. Jax and Cam cover what it took in training and preparation for Jax to qualify for the Olympic Trials, fueling strategies, running shoe differences, and more! Follow Jax: https://www.instagram.com/jaxpsiddall Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Qualifying for the Olympic Trials and Moving to Eugene, OR 00:05:45 – Training for Beating the Record 00:13:08 – Eugene Marathon: The Mindset in Achieving a Time of 02:10: 00:18:52 – The Golden Standard in Running: 26.2 Miles 00:23:34 – A Love for Running at a Young Age 00:30:53 – Training, Raising Hemoglobin, Sponsors, & a Career in Teaching 00:33:52 – Teaching Social Studies, the Netherlands, & Different Cultural Differences 00:43:04 – People that Jax Looks up to 00:50:01 – Running Documentaries on YouTube 00:53:16 – Surges During Marathon Races & Pulling the Group 00:57:10 – Fueling Strategy: Gels, Carbs, and Sodium for Races 01:01:44 – Training with Carbon Plated Running Shoes 01:08:12 – What’s Next: Broken Arrow 23k 01:12:16 – Treadmill Training for Speed and Elevation 01:16:22 – Keeping the Belief: Initial Failure in Competing to Qualify for the Olympic Trials 01:19:43 – Strategic Race Selection: Finding Stronger Competition 01:21:26 – Future Plans in Running & the Olympics 01:23:47 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Sig Sauer: ⁠https://www.sigsauer.com/⁠ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is the Keep Hammering.

Keep crammering collective. Otherwise known as Keep Hammering Collective. I'm with Jack Sedell. Dude, it's an honor to have you here. Thank you. It's an honor to be here, man. This is, so why I wanted you here is you won the Eugene Marathon. It was your first marathon, right?

Yeah. Course record qualified for the Olympic USA Olympic trials. How amazing is that? It's unreal still. Did you think that that was going to happen? Yeah. I mean, honestly, at the beginning, I was already shooting for 210. And, you know, I was on that pace for a hot man.

minute and things kind of fell apart. But yeah, nonetheless, like the goal was the OTQ and I'm just happy to have that by my name now. Dude, I'm so happy for you. It was such a iconic performance in, you know, we call this a track capital of the world. Eugene, Oregon, what better place to do it. And like, what brought you to Eugene? You kind of mentioned it earlier, but tell me why Eugene. Yeah. So I was planning on running a marathon a little bit earlier. awesome marathon actually. Oh, okay. And I got sick that week before and literally couldn't get out of my bed.

Let's move that a little closer to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, good. Cool. And I, yeah, I just got to the point where it was like I had to be finding the next race. Like I knew that it was something that I really wanted to do.

And like the marathon in general, I spent so much time grinding it out alone by myself. Yeah. That it was kind of like, I couldn't just. stop there. So then I, you know, was looking around and I found Eugene. And honestly, Eugene, the way they had everything laid out, it was basically like one of the major races. Like, it was set up so well that I knew it was going to be a place where it was going to set me up for success. They have bottles. They had like the whole works. It was just like, you know, maybe not enough in the prize money for a lot of people to come down. But no, like everybody was out in a

about and like the whole Eugene atmosphere just made it all the more special like these people know track they know running and um yeah like in the marathon it gets people who are just like average day joes and like especially with Eugene that's not your typical average day Joe like they are um they're just so caring and they're so into it and so like yeah going into that final straight of Eugene um Hayward Field. It was just like, it was magical. Oh, I mean, people here appreciate an amazing performance. Yeah. I mean, because they know what it is. To your point, we know track, we know running. We've seen all the legends come through here. Like for me, I've born and raised here.

And so it's no surprise that when they see somebody coming in and they know the course record time, everybody knows what's going on. And then you coming in with this performance, it's celebrated. And it's, I mean, I'm just so excited that you got to, I wasn't around you when you crossed it or broke the tape, but I saw it, and it's amazing. Oh, yeah. That's pretty cool. I'm just like, just wanted to celebrate you in that accomplishment, really. Thank you. Yeah.

It's special. And I think one of the things that caused me, or, I mean, inspired me to really want you here is, like read that read that first line right there on that article oh yeah um don't have USA on my jersey marathon winner fights against American runners USADA tip yeah so it was calling me the winner yeah and I'm like I was telling James we hadn't even talked to you but I'm like why are they saying I'm I finished 70th right and it's just like what are we doing the The guy who won deserves this credit. And so I'm like, he set the course record.

O TQ. It's like, why is this like, why are you not getting the credit I felt you deserve? So that's when I reached out to you. Yeah. And I'm like, I was just talking to about tonight talking about you. And then you said, yeah, let's, let's do it. So it's, that's why you're here. And then as I explained to you on the run, I get so much like, I don't know what, just

energy or just I just love being around elites and just like trying to absorb what I can. And so just being able to run with you and talk with you and share Mount Piscan, we did, I think about eight miles, you said. Yeah, 8.4 or something. Yeah, just to share that with like, you know, a true elite runner is, I mean, it just enhances my life so much. I just am so appreciative. Yeah, I mean, the not run was, I mean, for me, it was cool too. Just seeing Eugene from a different view and, you know, seeing what you see every day. That was special to me as well. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, do you like that route we did and everything? Yeah. It was super cool. And a little bit technical, too. So I was a little bit appreciative of that. Yeah. And we got some decent pace going in there at some

point. Yeah, dude. You were rocking like 545. So a little bit there. I had to work. I had to work. But yeah, so I'm interested. Like, you said you were on pay or your goal was two, 10. So tell me what training led you to believe that you were capable of that? Like, how did you know? Just all the time and miles and weeks or what? Element was created by former research biochemist Rob Wolf and has enough sodium, potassium, and magnesium to move the needle and get you feeling and performing your best. Plus, it has zero sugar, artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients to drill your low-carb lifestyle. That's why Element is my go-to electrolyte drink and trusted by many of the world's leading health experts and athletes, including Team USA weightlifting, coaches,

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Get Hoyt and keep hammering. So there was like a couple weeks in there where I did 100 mile weeks and I was feeling pretty confident in myself. And then like I said, I kind of fell apart and so I had to recollect. And the week before, actually, I did, it was kind of like an 18 mile of tempo run with one up and one down and warm up and one cool down. And that 18 miles, I was crushing it at like around 530 to 545 pace at 7,000 feet or so. So like it was kind of like my last affirmation of like this is something that's possible. And yeah, that last mile I was hitting like 445 or something. And then I was like, well, if I felt that good at 4, like 45, 449 about. At 7,000 feet. At 7,000 feet. It's not unrealistic.

And that was after 18 miles? Yeah. That was like that last 18th mile. That's, and you felt good. So yeah, I could see where you'd have the confidence. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah.

But that said, there's a lot of workout. Like there was one workout where I was on the brink of crying and my wife was kind of sitting there next to me and she's like, you just got to suck it up. You got to get through this. What was the workout? What went wrong? Okay. So it was right after getting sick, like my lungs were just not working whatsoever.

And so I was on the treadmill. And it was two by five miles. And the goal pace was to finish in 25 minutes for both of those. Okay. And like I got through like mile three of that first rep. And I literally just sat there for a second. And I had to take a break. And I was like, I literally can't breathe.

This is going terribly. Like just kind of getting in my own head about it. And then that's when my wife was just standing there and being supportive. And like at first she was kind of like, you got this. Like you can do it. And then after that, she's like, you're just going to, you got to do it. And lo and behold, that last rep was one of my best reps of running I've ever had. Yeah.

Oh. So you were able to hold a five minute pace. Yeah. It's something around there. I think she like backed it off a little bit. But like still nonetheless, like, I had to finish it. Good effort. Yeah.

Well, so what was to run the 215, what is that, 510? Yeah, it's about like 508. Like, I think that was my average. Okay. Yeah. And but you were faster than that for the first however many, how many miles. Yeah, I think it was the first 16. And then, yeah, I threw up all my nutrition and kind of had to cut my losses in a few ways.

And it was kind of one of these things of like a, it was like a yo-yo. You're going like fast. And then like because I threw up, like I had this like pulling sensation in my left hamstring. And I was just kind of stuck in this yo-yo where it was like, okay, I'm running fast and now I'm walking. And but that's the marathon for you, man. It's like you're not going to have there. I don't believe there's such thing as like a perfect day.

You just got to like grind it out and see how it works out. Well, I mean, just has me thinking like, what is your perfect day if, I mean, you say it's not possible, but if that was not a perfect day and it was a 215, but you're, you know, shooting for 210, on your first one, what are you capable of? Yeah, I really want to find out. What's your ceiling? I mean, like, if you had like a perfect race, a perfect goal, what do you think your body could run if you had to guess? absolute maximum i would put myself around 204

oh 2.04 okay but like that's you know doing everything right and like me not getting in my own way yeah yeah no i know there's a lot but that's you know that's amazing to think or to believe that your body's capable of that and you're capable of that as an athlete that means a lot because because there's people that have might have that a but would never give himself the permission to believe it. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

So the fact that you can say it, that is powerful. Thank you. I mean. It's a little bit delusional. No, but hey, that's life sometimes. Yeah. I mean, if I would have told people my goals when I was young, they would say whatever's worse than delusional, that'd be me.

So sometimes that's what it takes. Without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah, that. Okay. I wanted to go back. You had, you're thinking 210 potential, but you had your mom and dad come out.

Did I hear that earlier? Yeah. So you had to think that there's an opportunity for something special to happen. Yeah. Because otherwise they wouldn't have come. Oh, for sure. So what was that, what was your mindset going in? Mindset going in was, yeah, I mean, I even put in the,

so like they make you pick a time when you're, like, estimated to finish. And I put 210. And so like the whole time, my whole mentality was like, I don't care if there's nobody with me. I'm just going to go and do my own thing. And yeah, it was kind of nerve-wracking because even the day before we're having like the meeting and they're telling us all the logistics of the bottles and just a bunch of stuff that I don't know about. And so like I'm sitting there shaking in my boots. I'm scared as heck.

But yeah, lo and behold, I'm just happy that like I have a tendency. to get nervous in the moment. But then like once it comes time, like I settle down. And it's just at that point, I'm just doing my own thing. And I'm out there running. And that's the beauty of it. It's just you and yourself. Yeah.

No, that's for sure. Well, how many other elites in the marathon were there? Well, I think there was like a good amount. I couldn't say. I wasn't really with them that long. Right. But yeah, I would say there was a good like 30 years. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know there was a good group of women going for the OTQ also.

Oh, yeah. Some pretty good women in there. I didn't know who the men were or if there was some, you know, I didn't know who they were. or how many there were. But I've never been involved in that end of it. I'm back with the scrubs in the back. But I still love it. I mean, I just want to say this too. It's like you kind of mentioned it. But the Eugene Marathon is such a, it's like an anchor to this community.

It's such a special race. And, you know, I just hate that there's been kind of a negative thing that I guess I'm responsible for with this race because I love it. I didn't run it last year I was hurt, but I still went over there and Truitt was running and Tanner, my oldest son was running. And I still went over there and was part of the community just because it's so special. Yeah. And yeah, I just want to, I just want to tell people and you kind of mentioned it too that this marathon is like a major, but it's not a major, but it's run like a major. You know what I mean? Like the race director is just this iconic coach. He's been around forever.

everybody respects them and the race is just put on at the highest level and it just means so much that this is my hometown yeah yeah honestly like i couldn't say that i could find many marathons like it and probably the entire world but so and it's crazy that i can just sleep in my bed and drive over there in the morning yeah so i've done it about i don't even know how many times many times um so what were you thinking did you preview the course at all uh so i went on youtube and i basically just they have like this really fast forwarded version of like the course and so like you don't really know where the turn or anything like that so it wasn't too informational but then also i looked at like the elevation map which it's pretty flat so there wasn't much going on there and yeah so like i didn't really

think too much about it i know my parents and i the day before we kind of just went around town and saw the parts that we could see. Yeah. But yeah, aside from that, there wasn't much prep going on. All I was cognizant of was not going out too, for me, I'll just tell you how what I think. You tell me what you think. But I was, didn't want to go out too fast because that first, like, you are kind of climbing before you go and do the turnaround and come back. Yeah. It is kind of up. And I was thinking, if I go out, because you're feeling, for me, fresh would be like running a 550 up that. And then I'd probably blow up. So I was like really trying to be like 605 at that doing that climb up to about mile five and then 545 coming back down. But I was trying to be like let's be conservative to start. So I had something at the end. You know what I mean? That's that was my. But you probably didn't even notice that. Did you or did you notice that little grind? I noticed it a little bit. I kind of ran stupid. What were you what were you running there like under fives? Oh yeah. I was running.

like 448s for a good like portion of it and um yeah like I was just kind of like feeling the course out and feeling the competition out a little bit and even my coach afterwards was like yeah we need to work on your pacing plan because you did not run that like we literally she told me to go out in 505s and just kind of feel it out and see if I could progress and I you're like no I know better than you yeah right like what's a race plan for anyways yeah it's just a idea. Yeah, it's all theoretical. Right, right. And that's kind of the way I treat a lot of things. And I kind of treated it like in my opinion. So like there's this group that I occasionally run with, which is Army WCAP. And every Sunday they just hammer their long runs. Like they'll run 520 pace for like 18, 20 miles at 7,000

feet. So like I just kind of treated it like that. Like how long can I hold on to that pace before I just break and yeah treating it like that was probably the best move 16 miles yeah 16 miles but you know what what i'm thinking is like so you you held say under fives for 16 yeah right so you know you got 16 of the 26 you got you're in shape for that right so how did we develop that last 10 because what you need to do is get to where you can hold sub five for 26 so now you know okay here's I'm to here now I just need to develop and maybe it's just the nutrition and the puking didn't help anything but at least you got you know you got 16 in you at world-class pace so now you just that next 10 what do we what do we do yeah and then you're then you're like with the best in the

world yeah hopefully I mean what do they run what is it 204 I couldn't tell you it's pretty quick I think you're hovering around that 445 or so. Yeah. Yeah. I know we talked about Ben Blankenship earlier. He's got the, there's a 10K on the 4th of July. It's called the Butte to Butte. So starts on at Spencer's But like the base of Spencer's and goes all the way downtown.

But it's, he has a course record and you run 444s. And I remember like, how could anybody run 444 for six miles? Yeah. And that's what they do the marathon at. Yeah. And that's what you were doing. It's just like nuts. It's so fast, dude.

It's sprinting. That's what I love about the marathon, though. It's kind of like that last distance where like it's, you're kind of making it out to be a sprint in a way. Like you're trying to go as fast as you can for as long as you can. I think 50K you can kind of argue for it. But like that 26.2, it's just that golden standard of like everybody comes out. And like, I mean, you see it with the best of the best. Like these guys, especially in American distance running right now.

now they're all pushing each other to see like how fast can we truly go and like what kind of splits can we hit like now running on the roads and having a little bit of experience like it's amazing because like you go out in that first mile or first two miles and it's like you're bound to hit 430s like you you got to suck it up so fast but then they they come back yeah yeah but still it's like what's your fastest mile uh 403 yeah never got a real good shot at it like I I had a few, but like my last year in college, I kind of was taking the 10K training a little bit more seriously. So like I ran 403 three times in one weekend in the span of two days actually. Oh, really? Yeah. Jeez. So that it's not a true PB at that point. No, but yeah, it makes you

wonder, I mean, all runners do this. Well, what if I really focused on that? Could I, could I get that? Well, I've never thought sub four. But for you, I'd be thinking. man, if I had a dedicated whatever block, I could get that sub four. Oh, yeah. I know you could. But, oh, man, it's just so exciting to think about, because you're still so young,

but you understand, like you've been in the scene for, you know, you know how, like a challenge I've always had is I never was in the running scene. So I don't even know the strategy, but you know it. But then also like you're, it seems like you're peaking now or maybe finally found, your event. Yeah. Because maybe those other, those other events weren't yours or where you can, you know, excel. And now you found it and you're young and you know, know what it takes. And so here

we go. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's off to the races. Like it's so fun because now it's like, I think it's just a matter of like, you know, breaking that 210 and who can I beat from here. It's just like, what kind of heads can I get? And yeah, it's going to be gnarly this year. And, yeah, it's going to be gnarly this where we go from here. What's, uh, so I know Connor, he ran 204. Yeah. What did Clayton run? Do you know? It's his best. Off the top of my head, I have no clue. I think he was right around like that 208. I want to say 207, 208. Yeah. And then it seems like the, so it seems like those two have been like one and two for a while. Oh yeah. Then the third was that army guy right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so could you sneak in?

in the third spot, do you think? Well, there's a lot of work that has to happen between now and then. But luckily, you know, time's on my side. I got that O2Q quick. Yeah, so now you can just fine tune. Yeah, exactly. Man, oh, that's going to be, I'm just so pumped for you. What a, what a journey.

Yeah. I mean, so tell me about like, you said you grew up where? In Lebanon, Ohio. Lebanon, Ohio. right outside of Cincinnati. Right. But I went to Eastern Kentucky University. Well, so were you always good at running?

Yeah, from a young age, I think I had like this talent for it, but I don't think I actually put much time or thought into it. And especially in high school, I think a lot of people envy me for, at one point I was the first kid to play soccer and run cross-country at the same time for our school so like dual sport and so like i would just practice soccer all week and then show out for cross country and end up like placing at these meets yeah um from there the journey kind of like junior year i was like all right like i kind of want to settle in on this and i want to go all in i want to see what i'm capable of and i think from there um it just kept on getting better and better

but then i was playing a game of catch up every single time because um it was a matter of I was at a point where I was good, but not good enough to be considered for like national rankings or anything like that. And it kind of just felt like I was always in this cycle. And yeah, it was kind of tragic in a lot of ways. Even going into my last year of track, I was like three, four spots off from making it to regionals, which I know if I got into regionals that race is set up for me. in a way where it comes down to that last 400 meters and everybody's kicking. And I was like, oh, man, if I could just get into that race,

I'm going to nationals. And I was just a smidge off. But I think that's what got me here, to be honest. Right. I just lit a fire in me and here we are. Yeah. I mean, because once you're in that, if you're in the like 15,000, 5,000, 10,000, that's tough.

Yeah. And you can be in there for a long time, fighting for those spots on the world team or whatever. But yeah, the marathon, it seems like the guys, once they, you know, once their speed goes a little bit in the shorter distance, then they go, like, who am I thinking of? Grant Fisher.

Yeah. You know, and maybe that's not the ideal way to do it. Maybe just focusing coming out of college right into the marathon. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's what I did. Yeah. And it worked out great. Yeah.

It's, I truly think that's my race at this point. Like, that's what I have to focus on and build around. Yeah, that's exciting. And do you think that like doing the both the soccer and the cross country and the running so you didn't get recruited maybe to the premier programs? Because nobody really knew how good you were because you're kind of dabbling them both. Yeah, I mean, I ran one four, 15 mile when I was a kid. And I was like, you know, at that time that was pretty decent.

But it wasn't like, you know, you're winning anything. Like I was, I think 13th in my state. So it's like, you know, you're kind of just getting overshadowed that whole time. And luckily, Eastern Kentucky had a second thought and believed in me and they let me walk on. And yeah, even in college, like I was getting my butt kicked every single day. And just being a walk on for that team, it was really special going from that walk on position to being full ride and just being like a part of a program and feeling like you mean something. Yeah. Oh man, that was like this sweetest feeling.

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Yeah. Yeah. So to earn a full ride is probably felt amazing. Oh, man. And that was like, I remember like it was just kind of a weight lifted off my shoulders. It felt like I could actually just focus on academics and running. Yeah. Yeah.

When did that happen? What year? I believe it was right around like my job. junior year. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was like right out, basically right after I ran like a 1412 5k, they were like, yeah, all right, we, we got to give you a shot now. That's a good time. Yeah. It's a good time. It's, uh, yeah. Hey, that's life, you know. Yeah. It doesn't always go to how we want or, or how we plan, but roll with the punches and here you are. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like that's the it's I would not have it any other way to be completely honest. Like I think I've learned a lot about

myself and I've learned a lot about, um, how to treat situations and not to take anything for granted. Like you really do have to work for everything. And yeah, it's just exciting to be in the position where I am where I can say I'm a success story. Yeah, definitely. And now you're, so you live in Colorado, you train at elevation. Tell me what's your training like now. I mean, you mentioned a couple 100 mile weeks, but yeah, what's your goal usually each week? Yeah, so we actually backed it off. So I kind of get away with a little bit less mileage. I do about 80 to 90. And luckily altitude kind of plays in effect with that. It's raising your hemoglobin. So like your red blood cells are producing more oxygen. And the nice part about that is you can kind of go slower and do less while still getting the

benefits of like if you were down at sea level say like in florida you're doing like 120 miles like an 80 mile week's going to serve you probably just the same amount so um yeah like doing that it it's kind of like backing off and um it it's hard because like i'm working a full-time job as a teacher as well so um like there's days where like i'll spend like there's a typical Wednesday where i would spend like 20 miles after work. And it's just like, I stay up till like 9 p.m. just running. And then it's like to bed and then back out the door. Yeah. That's tough. Yeah, it's tough. But like that's what it takes to be good. Yeah, no, it does. It's a, yeah, it's like such a grind. And then if you can get a sponsorship, I mean, could you imagine, you know, to be sponsored and like, all you have to focus on

is your health and running. Oh, it'd be beautiful. And the people that make, that it's such a huge advantage because instead of burning the candle at both ends it's like it's kind of what I had to deal with you know until I retired it's just like you're never at your best you're always just like doing the best you can but you know it's not perfect yeah and so earning that sponsor for you to earn a sponsorship to be able to go all in like with the recovery and the massage and the diet and the training it's like that's where that 204 becomes you know definitely a thousand. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, it's like getting to that.

Of course, everybody wants that who doesn't want to be a full-time sponsored athlete. Right. So how do we make that happen? Like, what's your plan for making that happen? Oh, so, yeah, right now, I'm in kind of a bit of crossroads with how to make things happen. So my school year just ended,

and I'm kind of deciding between different paths to take. Like also my wife lives over in the Netherlands. So I'm trying to figure out a way to move over there and try to make things work or just stay where I'm at and maybe not work a full-time job as a teacher and maybe just sub on the side or get myself a little bit more leeway. So that way on those days that I do need to recover, I'm not just standing up, walking around like having to teach kids. Yeah, yeah. You're off your feet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

What do you teach? Uh, six grade English in social studies. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you like it? I mean, other than it screws up your training. Oh, yeah. I love it. It's in a weird way. I want to trade it for anything. Like that's like, you know, it's like my alter ego when I go run because like being a teacher, like to me, like to me, like, a professional has always meant something to me. So just being able to, you know, help that next generation out. And especially with English. And, like, to me. And especially with English. English and social studies, it's a little bit more conversational. It's not so straightforward as math. Yeah. So like it's just fun to hang out with the kids and talk about how we can manipulate the language or like who was important at this time and why it's important. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just, it's a blast. I love social studies. It was just like always interesting learning how I think it's like, even when I go and hunt now, I always want to learn about different cultures, like the things that different people have to go at the things that different people have to go through in different parts of the world. Yeah. And like going to Tanzania when I hunted there, I was there for three weeks and just like,

they speak Swahili and they can track animals. And it's just like it's obviously a whole different existence. But it's so fascinating to me. To me, that's social studies. Oh, yeah. Without a nutshell. Yeah. And that's what I tried teaching my kids.

Like we even had tables where it was that like I had them labeled as different countries because like I really did want them to learn that like social. studies isn't just limited to the United States. Like, it's a worldwide study that you're able to learn about people. Like, to me, being around so many cultures throughout my lifetime, it's kind of like, it's a disservice that we don't know more. Like, I have like this, like, I just have this craving where I just want to know more and more about different cultures and try to get to know about them. So that way, I think it teaches you a little bit about, like, people and also yourself a little bit. And it's, yeah, so like I was always kind of growing up just.

just like a geography nerd. I was always looking at maps and just like figuring out where things are. And I remember even in college, like we had this one class where they, it was a geography class and they made us memorize where these countries were. And so like I had a,

I was always like the first one done and I finished in like two seconds because I already knew where they were. Yeah. Played like this weird memorized game that lets me remember like all of Africa or something like that. And it was just the professor was always amazed

by how fast I got done, but it was fun. Yeah. Where was your favorite place? My favorite place right now has to be the, I mean, obviously I'm biased because my wife's from there, but the Netherlands is just such a cool place because it's so, it's so different from how we treat things. Like there's bikes everywhere. Public transport is just like, it's so easy to get to.

And then on top of that, like they do speak English, but there is like a traditional sense of like, you know, their language is done. comes first and so like being able to kind of dive into that language and figure that out has just been like a blast but then at the same time um like i've had roommates from morocco and tunisia and they're always teaching me about their customs and especially like arabic culture it's so different from like how i was raised so like it was always fun to learn about like how they see things and yeah and i don't think i don't think we were taught i don't want to say the truth but it seems like we don't have a real clear understanding of the culture. Yeah.

I think what we were fed isn't necessarily accurate. Yeah. It's, you know, everybody, it's just what you are raised with. And I think, again, it goes back to being a social studies teacher. It's like, who's telling you that information and where are you getting the information from? So I think that's where I come in. And it's like, yeah, like, so I have all these different perspectives that I can share and stories that I can share with these kids.

that hopefully like you know by some wayside like they learned something from it so yeah it's uh you know i took my kids to africa because you know so many people think that the whole world's like this here you know and it's not and so um i wanted them to experience another culture so i took them there and i remember it true it was god i think he was either 11 or 14 but pretty small and um So we did the hunt. He got a couple of animals. And I, you know, he got the animals that I was thinking he should hunt. And so then we were done.

And I said, okay, I said, you're going to, I'm going to go out hunting. You're going to stay in the skinning shack all day with the guys. These are, you know, the Africans there. They speak Swahili. They don't speak English at all. And they're skinning these animals. And I said, I want you to help them all day in the skinning shack. And I didn't know how that would go or what he'd learned.

but I just knew that this is what you need to do. Yeah. And so all day he was in there, and I don't even know what really happened, but I just wanted to take advantage of just seeing different people and how they live and how they operate and what they have to focus on, what their job is, you know, and then their challenge, you kind of learn about their challenges too. When you're immersed in their job, you see the struggles they have.

And it just, it opens your eyes to stuff that we wouldn't know otherwise. And yeah, I just, it's so important. And then I've been lucky enough to travel, but a lot of people aren't, you know. And so I understand why people might have a more close-minded approach to different places of the world because they don't know any different.

And how would you? Yeah, and how would you? So yeah, I used to, Mr. Jal, he was my social studies teacher in high school. He's also his baseball coach, and he was pretty intense, but that was always my favorite class, social studies, just because of,

just people and how they live. It's fascinating. Yeah. And that's what you were saying before. I have a friend who was Kenyan and he came over here and he was like, dude, you don't even know. Like, you don't know how poor you are until you get here and then you see everything. And it's like it completely readjusts everything that you have believed or saw. Yeah.

I just, I think it's amazing how we're so lucky. I mean, and why are we lucky? Because we were born in the United States. Yeah. I didn't do anything. I didn't deserve that. I didn't earn that. I'm just here.

Yeah. If I was born in Africa, for some of those people, they could be the smartest in the world, the most athletic, the most gifted. And no one will ever know. Yeah. You know, because there's no way to make it out. There's no way to show, I mean, we can dream here. Yeah.

can have a dream. I want to be this. In some places, what was dreaming? Dreaming is like, that's a waste of time. Yeah. Because it's never going to happen. Other things that get done. There's shots to be done. Yeah. We've got to eat. We've got to, you know, find shelter. And it's just like, we are so fortunate to have this ability to dream and just say, if you just work hard, you can do it almost, you can do anything. And that's true here. That's not true everywhere. And so just, just recognizing that fact in a preemptive. appreciating that is powerful. And it's like, and it, I think it's like, it's mandatory.

Yeah. We need to understand that we can be sympathetic for different, or just like be more cognizant of challenges in other places that we're just lucky enough to be here. Yeah. I mean, it's a blessing to even say that I have ambitions to run 204, you know? Like, some people are depending on a, a two-o-whatever to feed a, family and like that's going back to Kenya they can provide for their families and that's the way of life you know like that it when it gets to the nitty gritty like that's running for them is like it's

their opportunity to make things work whereas like for us it's like you know you just get to see how much you get to suffer and you you know if you don't get it then you get to try again so no yeah we're pretty lucky but I think that knowledge that you're sharing and then the stories that we have and then like even talking about it here. I'm not saying it's changing the world, but hopefully it's like resonates with someone, one person and just be like, oh yeah, I never thought about that. Yeah. So because I know, and I'm not trying to seem like I'm worldly and know all this stuff. I didn't know shit for most of my life, right? So I'm slowly learning, but I can appreciate that, you know, we're very fortunate to be here. And just be, I mean,

what is this, a Thursday we're sitting here talking about running? Yeah, man. It's awesome. Come on. We had a great breakfast. You shot a bow. We had a good mountain run. It's like, we are the lucky ones for sure.

Without a doubt. Yeah. So I was so curious, like, who are your, like, did you have soccer heroes that you wanted to be like or running heroes when you're young? It was a hodgepodge of people, honestly. Like, coming from Ohio, like, obviously LeBron James is up. there for you. Like, it's just, not above Michael.

Yeah. Come on now. Yeah, it can't be. Yeah, I hear you. But then you have like, I mean, like I, we were talking about it at the bow shop, like, Des Linden, ever since she won Boston, like, she kind of was my hero. I was like, oh, man, like, that, that's something maybe that I want to do someday. And that was like the first time that I actually gave thought to like the marathon at all.

And that's all the way I think back in like 2017, 2018. And, but yeah, like, so her and then, like, you, Matthew Centroitz, obviously, like, him winning that iconic race at the Olympics was just like, it was one of those things where it was like, oh, that guy's a baller. Like, I want to be like that guy. And then, yeah, Ronaldo, obviously, Ronaldo is kind of just, most of the Nike people, honestly. Like, those guys are always someone that I would always look up to. But, yeah, Ronaldo. And then Namar, like, Oh man, as a kid, like I would bleach my hair like Namar and try to have the same exact haircut. Yeah.

But probably my biggest hero. But all the rest are all the same. Yeah. Let's see. I think it was 2016 and Rio when Cintra won that gold. Yeah. That was. Legend.

I watched out like probably 10 times. I think I try to emulate his race way too much because like that people always, even after Eugene, people are like, oh, man, he's falling off. And my friend texted me afterwards and he was like, yeah, I was just waiting for that legendary kick. Like I know you always have that kick at the end. Yeah. And luckily, that's exactly what happened. But yeah, I think I tried to emulate that a little too much throughout my running career.

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head to sigsour.com. Grab a pair of Zulu Bino's and use code cam for 10%. So if you're serious about glassing 10% off. Sixth hour Zulu binoculars. Seymour, miss less, keep hammering. Yeah, do you know, have you ever heard of Nick Simmons? Oh yeah. Yeah. So remember his kick? Oh yeah. So he could be last in the 800. I think yeah, 800, two laps and somehow come on that back stretch and just blow by everybody. Yeah. And then come to the home stretch and hold him off. Well, I think that's why they called him the bull, right? Yeah. He's just like this strong dude that's just like, blowing past guys. Yeah.

And we were talking about this because I tried to run my fastest mile with him over on that Sada's track we were talking about today. Yeah. And like I was hurt like I always was so I didn't do that good. But anyway, we were talking about how

I remember having this conversation with him. He's like the exact opposite of Pree because Pree would say the best pace is a suicide pace and today is a good day to die. So he wanted to go out because he didn't have that. kick. So he had to break them early. Oh, yeah. You know, wear them down and then they just fall off

trying to keep up. Whereas Nick just wants to go, you know, hang tight and then blow my, so I just love the strategy of running. Oh, yeah. There's plenty of ways. In Appalachia, there's a good quote that I heard, which is there's many ways to skin a cat. And yeah, yeah, that's like it, for running, that's right on because like, you'll see, like, especially the Kenyans, they'll go out and they'll just blow up that first like it's like a 5k that first two miles you know they're just trying to break everybody and then like that last mile you see them kind of just going backwards yeah and then um vice versa like there's guys that like literally just hold on for that last 800 400 and yeah they're like you won't see them even in the picture i mean look at cole hawker like that guy like it lasts 400 meters you don't

know where he is and then last 100 you certainly do so crazy yeah i mean when he ran we were talking about that 50 or 51 second 400 to win i can't remember what race it was but it's flying dude yeah yeah it's flying was that who we were talking about with the 50 or yeah that was him yeah um but also why are they skinning cats in appalachia i don't know i couldn't tell you there's a lot of stuff going on in appalachia that i can't figure out i'm just kidding it It is a saying I've heard too, but I never thought about, why are we skinning cats? Why is there different ways to do this? Can we just leave the cats alone?

How are people figuring this out? Yeah. So, yeah, the running heroes Centro. Yeah, I mean, I'm like the biggest fan of track, which is, you know, whatever, since I've never run it. But sometimes at night, I just watch, like, YouTube videos of running. Oh, yeah. Do you ever do that? Oh, yeah.

There's like so we it was almost like an initiation for our team in college like we had like there's this one race and it's with Edward Cheserick and it's the pen relays four by mile and so like everybody like have you seen it before no so you have to watch it okay so like he is everybody is focused on Edward Cheserick and nobody wants to go out. Did he run at Oregon? Yeah yeah he did. He's like infamous at Oregon. But like yeah so like there are. literally walking on the track because Edward won't take it. And so like the announcers are going crazy. They're going so slow. They're freaking out. They're like, why are they walking on the track? And then like it comes down to that last 400 meters and you see Edward just boom, he's gone. Yeah.

And then there's this one Villanova guy, I think. And he's just like keeps up in that last 200 meters. They duke it out. And he actually ended up losing. But like it was the most. wild race to watch. So we, we would always show that to, like, the freshmen and we're like, don't ever do that. Yeah. How, why is it, but, you know, the Olympics are like that a lot, too, because what is, do people, like, they don't want to, I don't know, why do they, why do they,

was it so tactical? Um, I think it's just the mentality of nobody wants to be the guy to give up the pace and, like, they don't want to waste more energy than they ever have to. Yeah. Because, at the end of the day, it does come down to that kick. So the more energy you have for the kick, then the more likely you're going to do better. So personally, though, I don't like to do that. So like in championship races, I was always the guy who would take it out. I was kind of like not so nice. And that was like those three 403s, right? Like it was just me consistently running the same pace. I was like, I don't care what you guys are going to do. I'm going to try and PV every single time. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. It's, uh, it's,

Well, I mean, talking about that conserving energy, did you ever, have you seen without limits that movie, the pre movie? Oh yeah, yeah. Well, you know how he, like in the Olymp, when he actually not the actor, but the real pre, ran in the Olympics, he took the lead twice in the 5,000, which they're saying that that seldom happens.

Like normally you get one shot at the lead. And then you're back. And then you're done, right? You gave all you got and then you blow up. Well, he actually had a, it twice and then blew up. But he kept him honest, that's for sure. But like that, that's something that like, I think is, you know, it's honorable to go out and actually just do your thing and not have to, you're not worried about anybody else's race other than your own, you know? Yeah. I think it actually

messes up a lot of other people's races if you don't play into their hands. So yeah. Yeah. It's a whole different strategy and yeah to be that guy who comes back twice and says you know you guys actually have to like you have to kick butt to yeah get around me so you're gonna keep it honest yeah yeah it's is there like again i've never run track but is there like surges and stuff during sometimes yeah sometimes sometimes people like to make surges and they like to there's definitely like especially it's more prevalent on the road i would say like there's times where like the group will just kind of like shift forward and that's when the people in the back of that group are kind of like oh no the wheels are kind of falling off and they're starting to feel it a little bit more and that's when you start

seeing guys just kind of trickle off the back and so that's why that first those two miles I was talking about are still prevalent because it's already everybody's kind of measuring up and they're trying to make sure that like nobody is in that race that doesn't deserve to be there right so like they'll come back and they'll run a weird split on that next mile or so. But like it's it's that yo-yo of like we're not letting anybody. It's any fraud. It's a fraud check basically. Exactly. It's like do you belong here or not? We're going to figure this out right now. Exactly. You can't fake it until you make it. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're not, we're not help. Because if you went more conservative, then people who don't deserve to be there could hang on. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. So yeah, you figure that out right out of the gate and like,

okay, here's what we're dealing with today. Yeah. Right. Yeah, and then also you told me in Eugene that you were with the half marathoners. Yeah. Like I said, they're at home and you're still running. So they're trying to make you like pull that group, right, at one time or is your turn? Yeah. So it was a weird situation because I was kind of, so they had like this little thing going on where they were making an arrow. And I kind of felt like Kipchogi a little bit because I was just hanging on in the back.

Yeah. And then there was at one point the half marathon guy. guy who won it. He was like doing a motion to me with his arm to say like, kind of like in cycling how you flick the elbow. Yeah. They're like, he was like,

dude, you got a lead. Like, what are you doing? And he was kind of like getting frustrated a little bit. And I was trying to explain to him. I was like, dude,

I am the marathon. Like, I'm in the marathon. Yeah. I'm in the half marathon. The marathon. Meanwhile, running.

Like I'm trying to explain that. And you're with the half marathoners. Yeah. And he's like, oh, okay. You can hang on a little bit. Yeah.

I was like, ah, thank you, man. What did he win it in, do you know? I think it was like a 65 or so. Okay, pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, that's good. But yeah, that was your 210 pace right there. Yeah, it was perfect.

Like I got the, it felt like I had pastures for a little bit there. Yeah. Oh, that's, man, dude, that is so fast. But we did have a perfect day, basically that day. Did it get warm later? It got a little, yeah, it definitely got warm. Later towards the end. Yeah, because I remember on the podium,

I was wearing like a long sleeve shirt and I was burning up. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah. You were done quite a bit before me, even though I won, according to some articles. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so what's next?

Yeah. Oh, wait, I was going to say also. Austin, I don't think, would have been as fast. It's pretty hilly. Oh, that's for sure. So I'm glad you ran your jean instead of Austin. Yeah. I don't know if you'd, maybe on a good day,

but it would have been tougher probably. 100% would have been tougher. I think it was windy that day there because Truer ran it and he didn't do good. It was, yeah, and they weren't even like I, though two weeks before I was asking, hey, like, what are we doing for bottles? Like, how does this work?

And they're like, oh, well, we just kind of outsourced to, I think it's BPN or whoever sponsors their supplements. And they were kind of just like, yeah, we don't really do that. I was like, oh, that's not good. Because like I'm with my own company that like they help me out with nutrition so like i need to have that stuff with me uh so yeah having you gene right there just saying yeah you can bring whatever just as long as you run fast i was like

okay what can you say what's in your bottles i mean oh yeah yeah what do you what's your plan yeah so uh i use precision and i use the sodium mix for carbs so like i what i did was i took one gel before and then i took just basically it's two scoops which is about 60 grams of carbs for one bottle and then i would tape another uh gel to it so by the time i'm about like five miles in i'll take well that 30 plus another 30 plus 60 i mean yeah you can do the math from there 120 carbs uh for an hour okay almost and yeah so and i think that's where i went wrong what too much you think yeah i think i just took way too much my body was not ready for that. Yeah, yeah.

I thought that day would be the day to try it, which wasn't a good idea. Yeah, that's usually, yeah, it's usually how it works. It's like, hey, this would be a good time to experiment. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just always curious about fueling strategies, you know, because that's, it's such a new, I don't know,

development or we were learning so much about how powerful that. But I think David Roach kind of, he really shined the spotlight on this about how many carbs per hour. And now precision did an amazing job with Rachel at Cocodona. They were, I mean, it was amazing. I watched a whole like an eight minute video

on their strategy for fueling her, you know, because they have scientists and all sorts of shit falling in her. And it's like, God, this is incredible. But it makes such a big difference on performance. You know, when I first started running marathons, like I ran Eugene, at South Eugene High, I like might get a half a banana

and then that's it for the marathon. That's crazy. So that's what it used to be like. And then maybe you'd have a goo, which they were terrible, hard to get down. It was like trying to get cocking down your throat. Yeah. Window caulking.

And now, but this stuff now like the Mourin's gel or precision, I haven't tried too much precision, but that stuff goes down so easy. Oh yeah. And what I love about precision is that there's a little bit of taste to it. Like obviously on bias, but there's like Morton, it's kind of bland a little bit. Yeah. Whereas like precision, it's like it's not even like a goo.

It's more like a liquid. So it doesn't feel like you're actually having to like choke anything down. Yeah. Which is nice. So do you get like half and half from your fluid and then half from the gel? So I would take half of a bottle and then I would take like that gel along with it. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, gotcha. So, and how often are you doing that? So in the race, I was doing it, like, it was at mile 5.1, and then, like, I think half marathon or so. And then, like, so it was about two times every hour or so. And there was, like, five stops. So I think the last one was, like, at 20 or something like that. Gotcha.

Okay. Yeah. Well. I'm not, I was a math major, but, yeah, for whatever reason, I'm blanking on the math. So it's all good. Yeah. But you have a schedule. you have a plan and then I guess so was your stomach not ready for that plan or because I think

what you'd want to do is do that exact same thing in training right just get your stomach ready yeah yeah and just hadn't done that yet or so I did it I did GI training I just I thought like I was ready for that next bump and because like my stomach was starting to feel great during workouts and I was okay yeah this is not a problem at all like I should be able to push the limit a little bit yeah And then I didn't realize how long the marathon was, and I haven't done training nearly to that extent. Yeah. Yeah.

It's about 26 miles for future. Well, and it's the pace too, you know. Like it's so different. Like in training, you're trying to push thresholds. So you're like, you're trying to chill out a little bit. And your stomach's a little bit different. Or 18 miles is different than 26. Yeah.

You know, so if you do that 18 mile long run at marathon pace, that's great. we still have eight more miles. Yeah. You know, what's your body doing there? So, yeah, I understand. It's like with your first marathon, you probably, that's what I say. It's like your ceiling, who knows what it is, because you're still sort of figuring it out and still ran, you know, on pace for 210 for a while.

Yeah. Crazy. Hmm. What about your shoes? Like carbon-plated shoes or what? Oh, yeah. Yeah. This, the Nike Alpha Flies.

Oh, okay. I get to play around a little bit. I also work at a specialty running shop. So, yeah, they kind of let me try out things. And I always give them feedback. And, yeah, so I always like to train in the A6 MetaSpeed Edge. And then when it comes to race day, I like to have just that fresh pair, just because mentally, there's like something behind a fresh pair of shoes that, you know. A little more pop.

Yeah, a little bit more pop. And so, yeah, that Alpha Fly, man, it just, it was amazing. compared to all the carbon-plated shoes I've tried out there. It's just like on par with just like it just carried me through those last 10 miles. Honestly, like I don't know how I would have done. I was thinking about it during the race, actually. I was like how in the past did people just run in flats? I don't know.

I don't get it. It's got, it's the biggest advantage is like that having the carbon plays. I don't know. I did this like shoe test like with Zach Bitter and his friend Dustin there. in Austin and I just tried different shoes on the and we're measuring um god I don't know just at the effort yeah and um like how much to like in a trail shoe compared to these different carbon plated shoes and it makes like from a regular shoe to a carbon plated I think it was like minutes different in the marathon it's like I think the widest range was like seven minutes yeah which

and if you're speaking top end that's that's huge yeah yeah Yeah, even 30 seconds can be huge. Yeah. But it's, I've been running, I think they're, are they Puma? Yeah. Yeah, those Puma, have you tried those? I haven't yet. The nitros.

Yeah. Yeah. Those things feels the same way. It's like you just feel light and fast and springy kind of. It's, yeah, I mean, I try to, I try to train like today. I always run in just regular shoes and then try to race and like the carbon stuff. Which is, yeah, that's probably what you should do. Because I think Truitt, he got hurt training too much in the car.

It was like springing him forward and his quads got strained. Yeah. And he just thought he wasn't used to it. Yeah. So at the shop, that's actually a big problem that we try to address is like people will come in wanting like alpha flies or something. It's like you kind of have to scale them back and it's like, all right, well, what are you using these shoes for? And they're like, well, I'm using these to just kind of walk the dog around. And it's like, well, it's going to put your foot in a really bad position.

And it's a really narrow tow box. So you probably want to have something like a Socony ride or something like that. Or like an ultra. Ultra is huge because it's just that zero drop. So yeah. Does that like stretch out calves on Achilles though? It does. Yeah.

So for running, it's kind of an interesting scenario. Like you kind of have to build up that tolerance to it. But it's supposed to be really good for your joints. Okay. That's a whole thought. process between the wide toe box too. It's just like everything is on that planter. So like that arch of your foot. And so if you can spread that out, that's going to relieve like a lot of pain later on like that you feel after running. Oh, I see. Yeah. Okay. I hadn't heard that explain

before. Yeah. That's interesting. At least that's what I've been taught. I'm not a foot doctor or anything like that. What about the stack height? Like yeah. Because what does it limit? 40 millimeter. But don't they have like super high ones now oh yeah like i wear the vamero premium and that's i think it's way above it but like um i yeah that stack height it's a weird scenario because they're banning over 40 millip 40 yeah 40 millimeters and it's like it doesn't to me make a difference like i wouldn't want to wear that on my foot during a race anyways you know like that's uh it's too much shoe yeah i think really where the shoe world is now is like they have like all these thick soles. I think it's trying to innovate something that is thinner sold,

but has the same exact, like, benefits as a thick shoulder shoe. Same property. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I was just thinking about, I ran in these once. And these are good, I don't know what the stack height is, but this is pretty narrow. Yeah. So I noticed towards the end of the run, you know, your feet swell a little bit. Yeah. This was a little tight for me. And yeah. You should probably get fitted, man. Maybe it's like, so at the shop, we always say like, we do 0.5 above of like what your foot actually measures. Okay.

And so that's like it kind of prevents that from like the swelling that you feel in your foot. It's going to prevent any kind of pain that you feel. Gotcha. Okay. It might be the shoe, but it might also just be the size. Yeah, maybe. I mean, because I wear 10 and everything. Maybe in these I need 10 and a half.

I don't know, but they're light and springy. Oh, yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. Those things are, those are the EVOS SLs, right? Yeah, I think. Yeah. Are they? I believe so.

Or the, oh, those are the, audios pros, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, we don't carry Adidas, so this is like my first time seeing those in person. Yeah, and they're cool. I mean, my dad used to work at her. My dad was a track guy, and he worked at a running store.

It was called a, got Oregon Athletic back in the day. Yeah. And I was always, I've been addicted to shoes forever. So I got every shoe in the world just from being a kid. And that's a fun thing about running too is you get to burn through them. So you get to try on different shoes. And cool running shoes, dude.

Yeah. I was like, that is just fun just to put on fresh shoes. Yeah. And just kick around in. And that, that's the thing too is like our shop, like we, it's an older store. And so like there's, we had this certain amount of like shells because back in the day, it was like you just had running shoes and now you're adding on and you're having super trainers you're having like the super shoes and like we literally don't have enough space in the back so it's become an

interesting scenario but to that point it's like it's fun to just try all these different things that are coming out and it's coming out so fast now like by the time one shoe comes out and they make the next one yeah it's competitive out there yeah um so i think i interrupted you but what is what's the next uh what's your What's coming up? Yes. So coming up is actually the Broken Arrow 23K. Oh. It's the Mountain Sky Race out in Palisades, Tahoe.

Oh. I'm super excited just because it's like, it's something different. I've never really, I ran one trail race in my entire life and it was kind of like this local rinky dink race. So I'm excited to see how I stack up to the big dogs. Oh, that'd be fun. Is there some, so do you know who's running?

So off the top of my head, I know a few guys. Yeah. There's one guy from Provo, Christian Allen, I believe his name is. Slim the Runner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's the big hair. Yeah. I'm pretty sure he's showing up. I mean, he's he's good. He's AG too. So it would make sense. But yeah, there's a, my friend Ben Townsend, he's just like a dog in the sky running world. And he's, yeah, he'll be there. So my whole idea that I have going out there is like, I kind of just want to beat him. to say it, but like, it's, you know, it's a goal. It doesn't mean it's... We won't tell them. Yeah. We won't tell them. He'll be caught off guard when you blow by him. We'll see. Yeah. Oh, that sounds fun. And then what about after that? Yeah, after that, it's all up in the air. It's just a matter of where the wind blows me and what race wants to take me on. And the running world is

beyond political. So I'm just going to see where I can work myself into. Yeah. No, I understand that. But you feel like, so are you going to be pretty strategic on the next marathon you pick? And then like, so, you know, you say it's political and you don't know where it's going to go yet. But like, do you plan on having like a full proper block before you go into the next one and really put on a show? Yeah. Okay. That's, without a doubt. Yeah. At this point, Like seeing what I did just previously, I think I owe it to myself to just like have a true block and do all the small things right. And then in the fall, hopefully pick out like just a race with a bunch of guys in there that can. Like Chicago.

Yeah. I mean, that'd be a fast one. I've had a lot of people reach out and tell me that I should run that. Because I mean, that would have people you could. I don't know how fast you'll be there, but there's some very fast people there. Oh, without a doubt. So you'd have plenty people to run with and it's flat and the weather's good. Yeah.

So if you had time, like how long is a proper block in your mind? In my mind, I'd probably say like about 16 weeks or so. Just so I have like that proper build. I really want to build up mileage and hopefully hit over 100 miles. And like I owe it to myself to at least do 110 because that seems to be the magical number that people start feeling their best. So, yeah, just building up a tolerance to that 110 and hopefully carrying that on throughout. And then being able to actually have a proper taper might do me justice as well.

Yeah, 16 weeks. I mean, I don't know anything about it, but that seems like a long time to like definitely hit everything you need with the miles, then the speed work. Like how much of that 110 would be on the track, do you think? Oh, I do a lot of stuff on the treadmill. Oh, okay. Yeah, it would probably be an unhealthy amount of treadmill running. But I seldom go on to the track at this point. Gotcha.

Because, like, I think I kind of got burnt out on it in college. And so now I just like, especially living out in Colorado, man, there's so many places you can go. And there's like this trail. It's called the Santa Fe. You just hop on that and you can do some crusher workouts. Really? Yeah. It keeps in mind floating around and you don't have to stay on just like,

going in circles like a hamster. I get it. Is it treadmill just for that leg turnover because you can really ratchet it up and get that speed? Yeah. It's so Yacob Ingrambritsyn kind of indoctrinated this.

It was like this idea that everything is controlled. And so like I'll do workouts. Like I just did a workout. It was yesterday. And I did one in the morning and one in the afternoon. And it's just literally on the treadmill. and it's so that way I don't go too fast because I do have it as we've talked about I have a pacing problem so I try not to get competitive with myself and I force myself just into that pace and find my rhythm and then in that afternoon it's the same exact thing and it's also so I don't overdo it so that like next two days of recovery I'm not like just absolutely shattered yeah yeah yeah there's strategy to it huh does your does your coach help you with this? yeah, we're always just like bouncing around ideas. And it's really cool because she took me on

after coaching me in college. So we're just always like, especially with trail running in the mix now, like we're just kind of like clueless. But it's kind of fun because we're both learning from it and figuring out what works and what doesn't. Like last week, I was just, I told her I was like, I can't do a workout. I just need to get as much vert into my running as possible. Vertical elevation gain. So like, like one day. I did do a workout, but it was more about the elevation gain than anything. It was like 3,000 feet and 6 miles or something like that. That's a good one.

Yeah. And were you pushing that hard? Yeah, we were pushing a good pace. We were trying to do a threshold effort. So it was like 10 by 3 minutes on and then like 60 seconds off. Are you looking at heart rate or what do you gauge an effort by? Yeah, that's a good question. It's basically just like how we feel.

So not going over to a point where we feel like we can't do another rep, but like actually the opposite where when you finish 10, you feel like you could have done another 10 or so. I see. Okay. Yeah. I don't know anything about it, but I want to learn. It's always fun to learn.

Want to get better. Yeah. Well, no, so you wanted all that climbing for getting ready for this sky race, right? Yeah, 4,000 feet, man. Yeah. I've run with, do you know who Anna Gibson is? Yeah, I've heard of the name. Yeah, I think she does those.

And then she did the, I think it was, what is that, bobsled she did? No. Oh, no, no, cross country skiing. Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, that's brutal. Yeah.

She did the cross, or what's it called? Nordic. Nordic, yeah. Nordic. And so she had never, well, I think she's skied because she grew up in Wyoming, but just kind of like last minute jumped in and made the Olympics. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's how I know her name. Yeah. But what I loved about her is like, so when the Olympic trials were here, she qualified in the 1500. But she did the sky race the weekend before and got, I think she got second. And then came in everybody saying, well, no, you're going to screw up your trials. She's like, I don't care. It's what I want to do.

So she ran that, got second, came around the trials. I think she made the semis. But it's just what she wants to do. She wants to do it all. But that's the beauty of it. Yeah. It's about having fun. It's not about like if you're listening to what other people tell you to do.

Right. You're not doing it for yourself. No. And so that was the ultimate sign of like, no, I just want to run and do it all. And then we went to this Brooks party over here. And then I said, hey, do you want to go running in the morning? So then we went and ran, did two summits on Piscka. And I was like, I figured out, yeah, she is really good at running mountains.

I was like dying. But that's pretty much the case with everybody I run with these days. But yeah, so she's super cool. But I just loved that she was just going to send in the mounds and run the trials and whatever. I just love that attitude. That's the way to do it. James. Do you have any thoughts?

Peanut gallery. Peanut gallery questions. Is this thing on? No, probably not. We never have that on because we actually don't care what you have to say. How about now? Can you hear me? No.

Oh. Yes. Oh. Earlier you talked about, you know, being close to qualifying for regionals and the nationals and never quite making it. What do you think kept you going? Or what was your mindset to keep the belief that you could do it and one day you would qualify? I think it was just, I think it was two things. It was disappointment.

So that feeling of just not living. up to my own expectations and then exactly that having my own expectations of what i'm capable of and i just always have this desire to just get the truest amount out of me so like i think you know not getting to where i wanted to be was just a sign of like dude like this is just not okay like i need to show i i don't even need to show it to myself like i know what i'm capable of i need to show other people what I'm capable of and I don't care what opportunity it takes like I'll get there I know I have to do it it's just a matter of um yeah I just got to keep on trying. Was there was there people telling you you couldn't do it? Yeah there was quite a few I think a lot of people uh I think from my school there was a lot of people

who did believe in me and yeah I think they felt a lot of the same disappointments that I had but um yeah they saw your potential probably and knew it was you had. Yeah, but then also there's a competitive side of things where like, you know, people kind of, there's envy and jealousy and people kind of say, oh, well, like, if I can't do that, then you can't do that type of thing. And so it definitely fueled the fire a little bit. I think that, I mean, Truit, he's not close to you, but he has the same goal to qualify. And there's a lot of, even pros just telling him he doesn't have what it takes. You know, it's like, Yeah, I mean, it does put a chip on your shoulder.

Yeah. And you just want to prove people wrong because like, I guess life isn't where not everybody's not everybody's your mom and dad. They're not going to tell you you can do whatever you want, champ. Yeah. So that's life. But yeah, when you work so hard at something, you got somebody telling you you're wasting your time.

Yeah. That's not that fun. I mean, I even had a coach tell me that was like I wasn't good at the longer stuff. And so I didn't get picked for a regional cross-country race. And that was kind of like what lit the fire initially and just kind of kept on driving it because I was like, well, you're not going to tell me no. Like this is like I am one of the best guys in the team and I'm going to prove it to you. Yeah. And from there, yeah, it all worked out.

I know. Sometimes sometimes that's what some doubt maybe. Sometimes that's what it takes to push us. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's love and support. Sometimes maybe something else. Yeah. And I'm thankful for that opportunity to, you know, she did straighten me out.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I love it. What else you got? Now that you've qualified for the Olympic trials, does that change your mentality at all? Like, are you going to be more selective about where you show up to races? Or, yeah, how has that affected that?

Yeah. I'm going to be more selective in the fact that I'm picking races where there's actually a good competition. Not that Eugene didn't. have competition. There were some guys who just didn't have the days that they were supposed to. But I think, you know, to be into that next bracket, you know, running, at least trying to attempt that sub 210, I just have to be in the race that will let me do that. So definitely getting into, like maybe even something like Berlin, Amsterdam, or even a major. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to see it. Dude, I'm a fan.

What else you got? Just as far as like desire to be a sponsored athlete and be somebody who does get paid to just run and that's it. What does that kind of map look like for you to achieve that? Yeah. So I understand that I have to run faster. That's part of it. If I'm not, you know, something that people are going to see, then I totally get it. But I think the fact that my mouth is, or I'm, my name is.

in other people's mouths right now is kind of the beginning of what you're going to see a lot later on is, you know, yeah, Eugene was good, but I think after we run a few more races, you're going to start seeing that, like, I'm not going to just stop here. Yeah, you seem hungry.

I am. I love it. Hungry, healthy, and yeah, that's, and you got talent. Yeah, thank you. All right, last one. Obviously, you talked about Broken Arrow and Trail running. any future plans for any longer trail runs oh yeah that's a good quote yeah um so maybe not right now

like doing marathon and everything i think i just need to really focus on that and you know every once in a while it's okay they do like a trail race and i see what i may have but um yeah definitely once i'm like 35 or not or above like i'm open to try whatever and i think yeah i mean Level's right there. It's not too far away. So it would be a shame not to try it at all. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. If you have like, I don't know, if you envision yourself, do you see yourself running in the Olympics? Yeah. Yeah. To be honest. What is that? What do you see when you like envision? Do you see a race? Do you see you wearing the jersey running with the other best in the world? What do you see? Yeah, I just see me in the pack of the guys that I just feel like I always

belonged with. And it's always been this thing of like I see people racing on Instagram. I see people racing on YouTube. Like there's all these videos going out with how people are like these teams, these sponsored athletes. And then it's weird because then like I end up in scenarios like I'm running at USA 10K champs or USA half champs. And I'm actually racing these guys and beating them. And it's like, oh, man, like now in my head, like I have this vision of, you know, running at that next level. And yeah, again, maybe I'm just delirious, but hopefully it works out for the best.

Hey, it all starts with that delusional self-belief. Yeah. You know, because nobody else is going to tell you, hey, I got this big dream and here's, I think what I think you can do it's you yeah it's if it's in you then you figure out okay do I have what it takes and it seems like you have what it takes so then it's just matter of let's do it yeah and I have no shame in believing in myself you know if it doesn't work out then it's you know it wasn't meant to be but I'm going to give everything I can to make it happen so yeah well I mean I'm saying your name jack sedelle I'm like so pumped you're here and here's what I'll say my highlight

was you saying, you're a good runner or something like that when we were coming back. So it's like, I got what I needed out of today. So thank you. I appreciate you. Yeah, thank you. And you got a new bow, so we'll send that to you. And then, yeah, just an awesome day. I'm so appreciative. Thank you for coming out here to my home. Thank you for sharing the day with me. It means a lot. And man, I believe in you. I want, you know, all the success you dream of, I want to see you have that too. So thank you very much. Thank you. I'm grateful. All right. Keep hammering, guys. Keep hammering. Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment, hate that makes

my feel gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with giving my blood so I am relentless.