Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 199 - Marco Langon

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Marco Langon - 9-Time All-American and Villanova middle distance runner from New Jersey, recognized as one of the top collegiate 1500m–5000m athletes in the U.S. with personal bests of 3:32.79 (1500m) and 13:05.21 (5000m).  Follow Marco: https://www.instagram.com/marcolangon/  Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – From Working at a GAs Station to Olympian Status 00:14:18 – Marco’s Childhood Struggles 00:18:37 – Hard Work for Financial Stability 00:23:20 – Growing up Without a Father Figure 00:31:42 – Confidence in Talent 00:34:04 – College Recruitments & Getting in to Villanova University 00:37:48 – Villanova - “You’re Never Tired if You’re Winning” 00:41:52 – Get Back to Work 00:44:03 – Dealing with Criticism: Attention is Currency 00:47:59 – Rivals, Ego, & Outworking the Rest 00:58:15 – Upcoming 2 Mile Pro Race 01:01:19 – A Student to the History of Running: Eamonn Coghlan 01:03:52 – Goals to be an Olympic Champion 01:06:55 – Sebastian Coe, Dave Patrick, and other Notable Runners 01:08:23 – Marco’s Experience at the Bow Rack 01:10:11 – Running Pisgah 01:12:21 – F**k, Marry, Kill: Running, Cooking, Getting Tattooed 01:14:25 – People Watching 01:17:13 – Thankful for a Difficult Childhood 01:18:06 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 10% your order Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code CAM for 20% off & Free Shipping Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. Live, locked and loaded.

Not actually live. Pretty close. Yeah. This is the Keep Hammering Collective. We are here with Marco Langdon. Dude, you've been here all week. So it's not like you're just here. Yeah, no, not just at the pond.

Just been living at the house pretty much. in the garage but how's that been going sick i like it yeah comfy than my bed at home so i definitely enjoy it yeah but um nah yeah it's sick in here just seeing all the deerheads and all that shit is unbelievable did you lift last night yeah i lifted last night lived a few nights ago and it's like pretty much anything you need in a gym so yeah well i was doing cleans i was scared i was gonna fucking like hit something yeah no i know there's antlers and shit everywhere but uh Yeah, I mean, you've been making yourself at home and we like having you here. And I don't, it's a lot to train with you for me.

I'm old, but it's been fun going on runs. And yeah, so tell me what's going on in the land of Marco these days. Tell me what's new. Pretty much homeless now on the road after NCAAs. But now my came out here for nationals and I had just gotten fourth, which was a pretty big disappointment. but I have an entire season of racing left, so I can't really just dig into that yet. Maybe I could look back after the season and think about it a bit more. But for now, it's about just kind of moving on a bit.

And yeah, then I'm racing pre-Fontaine Classic in a few weeks. So it was like the best decision was to like avoid all the flying and everything like that, being from the East Coast to just kind of stay out here. And I'm going to be going up to watch Portland Track Fest this weekend, watch some of my friends run. Hopefully they run some good times. And then I'm going to go down to San Francisco, actually, to hang out with two of my friends that are, they're doing an internship out there. And you had met them the other day, Brian and Colin Baller.

And they're guys who I always run with. So just cool to be around them. And then, yeah, coming back for pre-Fontaine and then taking photos for my pro deal and everything like that, which isn't announced yet. So I'm super excited for that. That hasn't been announced yet? Hasn't been announced now. But yeah, a few people know, but like just hasn't fully been announced. Oh, okay.

So we can't talk about it. Yeah, no, no. I mean, maybe a little bit. It's like. This would be out in a couple days. But when are you going to announce it? July, July 1st, I think. Yeah.

Yeah, July 1st or 2nd. But no, I'm super excited for it. It's cool. And then after Pre Fontaine, me, my agent and his other athletes were going out to, we're going to be going out to Europe and staying in this place called tubing in. Tovington, Germany. I have no idea where it is. I looked it up and it looks like a fairy tale.

Yeah. Fairy tale town out there. It looks so sick. It's unbelievable. Right. Yeah. Europe. I haven't even, I haven't spent any time in Europe because I only go places where you can

kill stuff. Yeah. But it does. I say not much bear out there. I don't know. I don't know about the hunting. But it's, uh, it looks amazing. And it's old.

That country is so old compared to here. God, I hate when I pull. one of my strings is yeah it's not good fucked up i guess get rid of it um so yeah um well that sounds like big changes from going to school and yeah finally graduated school and now you're a pro can you a pro runner yeah did you know that was going to happen your whole life i know you definitely not my whole life but uh when i decided to take the sports series like really seriously when i was a like junior in high school that's when I was like yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna be a pro runner I was actually insanely delusional as a junior in high school was probably the craziest it ever was

when I because I remember I was working a shit time in this place called a quick check it's like it's like a 7-11 but imagine there's like a subway inside the 7-11 yeah it's like a it's like a wah-wah if you've ever been in one of those but uh I was working just hours in there and I would get there at like my mom would drive me to work at 6 a.m. So we wake up at like 5.30 and there was just being like literally crying in my bedroom like I don't want to do this but I wanted to get money so it didn't matter and I would go work and as soon as I got in there I would be stalking the fridge. So like I see you got like the black rifle stop. Dude the amount of energy drinks and different flavors and like things that there are in

those freezers is ridiculous. I have never like seen anything like that. So I'm stalking all these things for like probably 90, 95 minutes. And I'm in there. I'm listening to just different like fucking YouTube videos and shit like that. Actually, I used to watch Hobbs. Kessler had this he's a, he's an Olympian and everything. But he had this like YouTube thing called Very Nice Track Club. And I remember I would always watch them and I would like literally be miserable that I'm not doing that right now. How could you be watching that and stalking the energy drink? I wouldn't be a lot of stalking done. Just being there until I told to get out. But I was just like leaving in the corner or something. Yeah. But just listening to it and like like thinking so

much about running and about like being an Olympian. Like I was like there's no way I'm not making the Olympics this summer. I didn't even make the trials. But I was just like I was thinking about stuff like that. I'm just like damn. Why were you so confident? I mean what? I don't know. I don't know. No, but you'd run and raced. Had you, were your times okay? Not really, no. I mean, I was okay for the state. I wasn't anything really good nationally,

but I was so motivated to be good. Like I had Matthew Centralowitz as my wallpaper. I was like, I'm going to be this guy. And I just was so like, I don't know, I was just very confident that I was going to be something. If you're lacing up boots before sunrise, loading up a pack, stepping into the garage gym,

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about quality, doing things right way and about building products here in the USA that actually perform in the field. That's why I trust this knife. If you want to check it out, head to montananinife company.com.com. And right now, podcast listeners get 10% off any knife with code CAM 10, C-A-M-10. To keep hammering pack out, built for the backcountry, built to work. And I wanted to be so good at something and so known for something. I just had motivation to be something like bigger than anyone I'd ever thought I could be. So it wasn't necessarily track.

It was just anything or? It was anything, but like track was the thing that I was best at. You know, I love cooking. I wanted to be like a chef. But then I decided, I was like, you know what? like I'm going to want to be professional athlete and I saw like that the lifestyle is cool like I didn't even know you really go to Europe all the time and race I didn't know that was a thing until like I got once I got to college but I was just like I just want to be racing I thought the only thing that

there was was the Olympics and like I was also like under the belief at that time that if you don't run under 13 minutes in the 5k like then you're how are you even a pro runner but like that's obviously not the case now but I would I remember I saw cooper tier when NCAAs that summer And I was like, damn, he only ran 13-07. That's pretty shit. And I'm like, I just never, I just wasn't like, I wasn't so like knowledgeable about times or anything like that, like high schoolers are now. What was your time at that time?

What was your best at that time? Like 1550. Yeah, so I don't know what was going on in my head. But I was just so, I almost like gaslit myself into believing I was so good. And then that senior year of high school, I won my state championship in cross country, which was like the biggest thing. I grew really close to my high school coach, Rob. He owns two running stores in New Jersey called Runners High.

And like I would always want to be around the shops and everything. So I started working in the shops. And at the time, too, I was working at this place called The Village. And I was just like working in the back of the kitchen there. And I remember I would tell the one chef, Naim Coleman, I would be like, dude, I'm going to be an Olympia one day. I'm going to be going to college for running and all that shit. And he was like, bro, well,

go wash the fucking dishes right now. Get out of my face. Cool story. And then, and yeah, and it's funny. He actually, one of his daughters is named Nova. And it's pretty cool, like, that I had went to Villanova for college and everything. But he was so proud of me when I had committed and everything. And yeah, man, like, it was just that whole, like, journey, like, especially from junior

year to now has just been like a fucking roller coaster. Like, it's just the summer of my junior year of high school. Like, I was hanging out with my two best friends, John and TJ, like, on the weekend. and everything all the fucking time. They were coming back from college and everything. And they would bring back some of their foreign teammates. So I was really, for some reason, like, I never met anyone from another country, but I just knew people from like Australia, Ireland,

brought this dude, Alex Maasai. He's from Kenya. Like, knowing just like he was like third at Boston Marathon or fourth. But like knowing all these like foreign guys, once I got to college into the NCAA and met like foreigners like my girlfriend now she's a foreigner she's from england like it was kind of just like i was so used to it but like people are like when i'm like yeah now my girlfriend's from england they're like what the fuck so you were you're just a jersey kid basically didn't go anywhere just grew up but somehow new had these worldly experiences through other people like meeting other people

and like i can just knowing you now you like asking questions so you probably just like just asked millions of questions about where they live, how they grew up. Yeah. And so it's almost like just traveling through conversation, essentially. And now you're getting the chance to travel the world. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

It's pretty crazy to think about all that. Like, as much as I love talking, like, actually it's funny. Like, I love talking. But, like, I love hearing other people talk. I love hearing other people. There's nothing I love more than hearing another person just, like, share their experiences and stories. and because I have like a story of my own like I have like my own flaws my own insecurities but hearing like other people and like how they've overcome that I find it the most interesting thing because it's like not only are you able to learn from your own mistakes but you can learn from other people's mistakes and you can just hear funny stories and you're just like holy shit like and you find like similarities between other people as well which I think is really cool so I'm definitely like really blessed to have just people from all over all over the world like my teammates Bailey Jack Donnie

chart like like all these people from like ireland australia like those are the countries i'm continuously naming but like that's kind of like the culture that i've been around but i mean knowing people from like belgium or or sweden or it'll like just all these different countries it's just so cool like especially being from new jersey like ryan like left the country or anything like that so i wasn't like very knowledgeable about what do they think about you that i'm just fucking insane yeah yeah like i don't know i feel like My friend groups, especially at home, like my two really good friends, or three really good friends, Christian Armin and Tristan, they're like, we would always just

get up to random shit all the time. And even my friends John and TJ, we would just be fucking just everything. Like we would just be out all the time. Like literally all over this, dude, just dumb shit. Like I was probably shouldn't say on a podcast, but we were doing it. And yeah, we were just having such a good time and just loud. like people would say obnoxious but we're like grew up in the northeast so it's like that's kind of people are louder yeah east coast is different more aggressive yeah the east coast is definitely

a lot more in your face aggressive loud and but the one thing is like everyone is in each other's business everyone knows everything about everyone it's just very like talkative and like social and i feel like that's actually a lot of like other countries like Ireland and australia specifically like their culture is so like loud and aggressive and it's like it's awesome though it's fucking great like those people are so like charismatic and and are just very kind and like care about you a lot so like being around them like they like they love it and i love them just as much so yeah yeah that's good um i was well you talked a lot about the jobs you did coming up it's like did you always have to work it seems i thought like track people had like rich parents and like they never did to work all they did

was train and it's just easy no yeah i definitely didn't come up from like a lot of money or anything you know my um my mom like she had me my dad left when i was pretty young and seeing like what she she had definitely had to like struggle a bit raising me growing up you know and it was it was definitely like like i mean for her like you know it was hard like she she didn't graduate college or anything like that but she and she wanted to make sure she was in my life because obviously i didn't have a father figure so like she wanted to make sure she was in my life so it's not like she could be out and not that she had an account degree to work on Wall Street but like she couldn't she couldn't do anything where like a business that's going to be

making you money you know she had to be around for you and she wanted to be around for me and wanted to be around in my life and she actually uh she would drop me off at my grandpa's house and um i don't talk to him as much anymore but prior to all that like i would we he was like the close he was like one he was like my dad pretty much you know my friend growing up riley his dad tim was like also like my dad. So I had to find like father figures through other people and everything. And, and yeah, but my mom when she was like at work and I would be at my grandpa's house, he would, he would always like put me up to just some random ass tasks. And he would always be like, practice makes perfect. And he would make me like, I remember I would sit at the fucking

table. My handwriting is horrible. Yeah. But that's this besides the point. But he would make me sit there for hours, just practicing like the little fucking handwriting books. And I would literally be crying at the table and would be like practice makes perfect and I'd be like oh my god I just want to leave and I and I would always be scared of him like but then there was one time where uh his wife he she left uh she just left to the store or something and I was so scared of him but like then we ended I like she came back and I was just like fell asleep like in his arm so like he was like definitely it was so cool like being able to hang out with him all the time I mean he's like an unbelievable man and like he he made he did well for himself but yeah but then my mom like

she had my sister and she had recently just gotten divorced and everything so like like her dad like i don't really see him anymore or anything and she's sister's dad my sister's dad yeah and she sees him a little bit but um yeah man like but i knew like i wanted to be able to make money for myself and make money to like and i'm one of my new like we didn't have a lot of money or anything i'm like you know, I want to, I want to, I want to get rich, but I don't want to have to, like, struggle. Or I want to be able to give everything that I want to be able to give my kids and everything that I didn't have growing up, you know. My mom, she actually told me a story.

Or not even told me a story. It was just like, it wasn't even, like, really a story or anything. But I remember I would be like, like, when we grew up in, like, this condo area and just like apartment housing and everything. And there was an area where there was like a pool and a playground. And for some reason, like my mom would never let me go into the pool. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, why?

Like, why can I go? I'm like, I go with Jake and Savannah to the pool. And she's like, no, like, you're not allowed. Like, please, like, don't go. And I remember I went one day. And I fucking ended up having to climb the fence to get into it. And I don't know why I did. But my mom was a fucking fear.

She was so mad. And he's like, I told you, you, I told you, I was drowning or what? Well, I end up getting back. And I still, dude, until like three years ago I had, or two years ago, I had no idea why I couldn't go into this pool. And I asked her, I was like, do you remember that? And she's like, yeah, like, we were behind on the bills for to pay, paying for the condo and paying for the housing and stuff. So, like, you weren't allowed to use a pool. That was like one of the things, deals that we had, like, couldn't use the extra stuff like that, the place had offered.

And that's like, fuck. So that's why. So just like little things like that, you know. And my mom, like she got a lot of jewelry growing up and like she had to sell it to be able to make sure she kept up on bills and everything like that. And you know, I just, I want to make sure like that we're living comfortably and having the NIL deal from the brand. I'm with Deodora. And then now like with the brand I'm going to be with signing a pro contract and everything. Having that stability like financial stability because I'm making a shit ton of money to wear like I'm like fuck.

Like you know what? This is what hard work will give me. it'll give me and my family financial stability. Like when my mom got divorced, like, she's a lunch lady. She doesn't make a lot of money, you know, and she's like collecting child support and like alimony or whatever.

But like we want to be comfortable. And like having a single mom, like it's hard. But I know I need to like carry my weight so like my income could help them. Because it's not just me I'm supporting for, you know, like a lot of kids that graduate college and it's like, all right, like I want to start my own family and make money for myself.

For me, it's like I'm making money for the family. that I got now. And then I'm going to have my own family one day and I'm going to be able to make money for them. And that's, I feel like a big motivation of mine is like that the financials and everything like that is a huge motivation and just not wanting to be broke or fucking poor. Like you learn a lot in school. That's funny. Like this is bullshit that teachers and professors tell you this. But they're like like when you grow up like you're never going to leave the social class that you're in like 99% of people stay in the same social class. I'm like, the fuck like if you're a college professor why the hell are you telling this is like we're supposed to be

making like our family better than it left off you know and yeah uh i just knew i wanted to like go from like the lower class to upper class and then make it one day you know yeah no that's uh well it makes sense because even like here knowing you're you're going to sign your deal but still like i love that you're staying here it's cool but like you're not just out like staying in a hotel burning a couple hundred bucks a day. You know, I mean, you still care about money.

And like, so you saying that, that's not just BS. You're staying here and I'm for nothing. And it's like, it's awesome because I love, like, if that somehow helps your goals of providing for your family,

I'm down for it. I love it. And it's just most young kids, your age, especially when they're going to sign a big deal, they would be balding. They'd be out like looking for jewelry and shit. You know,

yeah fuck that no way like i mean my mom she was telling me how like like when growing up she because she grew up with money and everything like that and then like her growing up with money and all that like she never really knew like that there was that there was like you you had there was like struggles in the world she just didn't know that and i mean that's neither here or there that's just how it was and um then like we got to the position where we were struggling and like then seeing like Like my sister's dad, like he lost his job and everything and we just piled up a shit ton of debt. Like to the point of almost bankruptcy. Like it was bad.

Like it's just so much debt where I'm like, fuck. Like looking at that, you're like, well, now I'm scared to spend money. Like I, it's funny. I will spend a hundred thousand, thousands of thousands of dollars of my friends. If I, like, let's just say like I have a million dollars. So it'll go all towards my friends. But if I have to buy myself something, I will look at like that. I will try to find it as cheap as possible.

or wait till it goes on discount because I'm like I'm not the type of person to buy shit for myself you know right like a lot of the shit that I have has been gifted or given to me like my chains like my like my fucking bracelets and everything like all that like all gifted me you know and like it's a good story is like I was with my old teammate Nick Sullivan and he's one of my best friends but we were in Best Buy and I see a pair of beats headphones and I wanted a pair of beats headphones so badly like so badly but I'm like looking at it. I'm like, fuck $200. I don't know if I could spend this.

And he's like, bro, buy the fucking headphones. Like, buy that you. He's like, dude, you're like, you have money now. Like, just why are you not spending it? I'm like, no, I don't know if I want to. And I'm like, and I see something from down the hole. And I'm like, I'm like, oh, I think I'm going to buy this for my girlfriend. And he's like, well, just get yourself the beats headphones.

Like, why can't you do that? And then I was able to like spend the money on that. But I'll never spend, I can't. It's just I can't. I struggle to spend money on shit. that I don't need. Like, if I see like a fucking $12,000 Rolex, I'm not going to sit there and be like,

oh, I'm going to buy that right. Yeah. Like, fuck that. I'm not that type of person. But like when it comes to buying my friend and iPhone, like I'm completely fine doing that, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that's, I like that attitude. That's, you know, obviously better to give than receive. Yeah, absolutely. That's to that point, exactly. I was just curious on your story coming up. was your grandpa, your mom's dad? My mom's dad. Okay.

Yeah, my dad, my dad, he left when I was young. Have you ever seen him? Not since he left, no. Like, I mean, I remember what he looks like and everything. Like, I sort of remember talking him a bit, but no, he just wasn't, wasn't a good dude. He had, like, another family and everything like that. And, yeah, no, it was just like, it's sad because you have that insecurity. We were like, fuck, like, if, you.

if the person who brought me into this world, like, put me into this world, if, like, he left me and he couldn't show any sort of love or compassion towards me, how do I expect other people to show love and compassion towards me? And it's like, you don't. Like, I mean, yeah, I have my mom and everything, but, like, like, a dad is, like, such an important key, like, key, like, for a young man, for for a young man, absolutely else you go off the rails, which, like, I'm not the, I'm not, like, the most, like, put together, like, kid and, like, straightforward and everything like that, but, like, but I learned through other people like how you're supposed to act as a man like really act as a man and really be there for your family like i mean that's just bullshit like you bring a kid into the world

like but you're fucking leaving them like what is that shit yeah yeah it's definitely definitely a bit of a struggle and it's like it's something i'd even struggle with to this day it's not like my fucking whole personality but like it's it's like you kind of grow up and you're just like damn like that sucks yeah no it's i yeah i my dad had his own struggles and wasn't around for many years. And I remember what it's like to just want a family, a normal family. Like, you see the other kids, their dads at the games or whatever, or the other dads are taking their kids places doing things. I never got to do that. You know, so I understand that. And it does affect, especially a young man growing up. But so I'm just curious, like, you seem very confident now,

but obviously you've had times where you like question your worth because your dad left you. Yeah. And so how does that work? I mean, how does that having reservations about with your dad leaving and then you seem very confident outwardly? Tell me about that. Yeah, I think whether I'm deep in the mountains on a hunt or pushing hard during a workout, Mountain Ops has been a constant part of my routine.

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select the Bowrack here down the street for me, and try it for yourself. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering. I think just growing up around a lot of guys in my neighborhood, like just hanging out with them all the time, just being outside all the time like I was a kid who was always outside hanging out I was always doing shit I always had like like friends in my neighborhood and everything and everything was just like talking shit one up in each other like like fighting each other like all like always just

arguing back and forth and it's like like the the the quote only the strong survive like it's just only the strong like you have to be strong you have to be quick witted you have to be like to the bone You have to be like really like you just have to be a guy. Like I feel like that's just like something that a lot of kids lack today. And a lot of people are like, think it's like all toxic masculine. Like fuck that. No, it's not. It's just being a normal dude.

Like I feel like having all that has definitely like helped my life. Like my friends like are like my brothers, you know. And my dad is like to me my dad is my high school coach who I met and learning to be a man from him. my grandpa who I had seen like just be a man my friend Riley his dad uh just seeing he's like the he is the man like he has a great family like great kids like put their family in a good position always there for his kids always making sure his kids are good and then not only that but he's taking care of other people's kids like he's coming over to my house like while i'm not while i'm out on the west coast while i'm out traveling or at college and taking care of school like

he's helping my mom out he's helping me out like when my when i had an o4 sport track the thing had like 200 000 miles and it was just beat the shit and the trans blue and i needed to find a truck and i'm like fuck like i need to get like how am i going to find another vehicle tim picked up my mom and they were just driving around trying to find cars and they found this truck and tim like did everything on it looked under it like dude i wouldn't have been able to do that shit like he was able to do that and he pretty much was helping me out and then like i went down to to the shop with him like a day or two later and he had me drive it around I was driving around with him and he would always like it was like bitching about how hard I am on like because I've never

driven a lifted pickup truck so yeah having like to throw down on the brakes like a little bit like too much he's like what the fuck you got to learn how I would drive a lifted truck but um having guys like that like in my life I'm just like damn like I'm so fortunate you know like my coaches and everything like my old lacrosse coach Aaron Cordilla like he was he's a fucking man like he he would always tell I remember because I used to play lacrosse he would always say he's like practices and just on Wednesday night and Friday night and I remember I was working so like I was practicing so much like what I thought I was practicing so much like on the off time and everything and then he was watching me like like throw the ball against the wall and I dropped it and he's like

practices in just Wednesday and Friday and I was so fucking mad because I'm like fuck I well I'm not doing enough so then I kind of just got obsessive with like a work ethic you know and I remember before I had left the college, something he had told me was never missed Sunday breakfast. And that quote has stuck with me ever since. What is that? What did you mean by that? Well, you're going out on Saturday night, go out until four or five a.m. Don't you fucking miss Sunday breakfast because that close is at 10 a.m.

So you got to get your practice in like at 7 a.m. So even if it's two hours of sleep, you still go out and get your running, get your work. And like there's been times where I would just wake up. fucking hungover, still drunk, and I'm still up out there getting my, getting my miles and everything like that. And I don't miss my breakfast on a Sunday. But that's, it's just like a, it's just like a metaphor, you know. Yeah. Just keep hammering. Yeah. Keep hammering. Yeah. So, too many ways to put it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when, I mean, that's amazing. It's like, it kind of like, uh, helps explain your, your story. And I, I didn't know about your upbringing like that.

but it's i've seen your work ethic since you've been here you know you work your ass off is i'm just curious like you said you were delusional but when did you know you were good like did you have a race where you're just like or somebody told you're good or did you like prove to yourself you were better than you thought or when did you know you had talent well my friends will say that it was like one run there was one specific run where like it was after race i ran like shit I went out the next day and did nine miles going like six minute pace to four, 50 pace. Really?

Just in a straight continuous run on the, on like, just getting faster, faster, faster. On the side of a highway. Like the most just random, like horrible running loop and everything like that. And after that day, I was like, just everything was just getting better and better. And I've just gotten better since. And I like, I've always like known I was going to be good just because I was telling

myself I would. but yeah like what about why did you go out on that run just because you were disappointed I was just disappointed and you want to prove yourself you're better yeah I just want to I kind of want to just prove myself I was like fuck you know I'm just gonna run hard

and like just run as hard as I can and did that and I was like holy shit and it was like right after I think I had like an eight hour shift that quick check and then I just went ran that and I was like fuck dude I'm like in a good spot yeah yeah but I don't know I feel like I've always just been confident that would be at the top level like even like my freshman year i ran 3 58 in the

mile and like to make NCAAs you had to run like 356 that year or some shit but i was like always evolving with the times you know because times get faster and faster but i was like i always just knew i was going to be in a good spot i just kind of never doubted myself or thought i was going to go backwards or anything so you ran did you run just three years at villanova four four yeah did you redshirt a year i read shirt my freshman year okay you're real freshman year after the red shirt you ran 3fd8 no no my freshman year I ran 350 so like that actual year I ran 358 I made world cross-country championships and was 19th and I just knew I was going to be in a good spot like I was like you know I'm loving this like I made a U.S. team like for U-20s I thought that was pretty cool yeah and um yeah I just

knew I just I just knew it I was there was no part of me that was like oh I'm doing this to be bad like why the fuck am I going to do this if I'm not going to be the best at it so you won a state championship you said in cross country yeah and then so how were you recruited by a lot of schools or i really wasn't so this was like you get recruited this summer like from your junior to senior year and i wasn't getting recruited too much like i got recruited by georgetown i was way too stupid to get in uh unc got recruited by them too stupid to get in they got high what high GPA yeah i don't even know just a lot more required missing just GPA but uh but no i love those guys but i was just like i got recruited by university of

oklahoma i got recruited by oklahoma state and then the coach told me they had no money for me and i was like fuck dude um so i i really didn't know what to do and then like were these all full rides or did you not get to that point yet didn't get to that point no villanova was the only school that was going to offer me a full ride um and i like made it specific clear to like matt mark's my two coaches just saying like saying I was like I'm not I'm not gonna pay anything for school like I can't pay anything right cool and I was like I need this and financial aid would have been fine like I would have been able to get that but like I just like a full ride that's kind of what you want and then I remember Matt called me and he's like hey like by the way just like don't worry about filling out

financial aid forms like we're just giving you a full scholarship oh man That was huge, wasn't it? For me, no, because I just, I told myself so much that it was going to happen. It's like, I just, it's, I knew. So you were like, fuck about time. Yeah, I was like, I was like, oh, cool. Yeah, and I told my mom and she started crying. It's like, and she, I was like, I don't think it's that crazy.

Like, and to her, it's just crazy because she's like, fuck. Like, and I knew I was going to do it. I don't think anyone else my family thought I was going to do it, especially just how I am. But, because everyone is always focused on being, oh, you have to be difficult. You can't be posting this can't be posting this can't be posting that fuck that I'm gonna do what I want Yeah, I don't care you know But I'm I'm really fortunate I'm just so blessed to be able to be at Villanova and it's like Obviously my first two years I had been like guys were great, but I still was having like my own struggles with the school and adapting in the environment

And I don't know if I like it here But then you kind of realized what was the hardest part I think adjusting to like the people like just a bunch away from your friends Right away from my friends. Yeah, it was a huge thing like I loved my friends so much where I'm just like fuck I don't know if I could do this but then I knew what this is like I went into Marcus's office and I was like our coach Marcus he was like a three-time world champion he grew up in Ireland and fucking poverty so like he and he knew what it was like going from home to Villanova and I'm just like I need to be here like he's like you and he told me he's like you needed to make it you needed to do something with your life to make yourself worth living

and make yourself worthwhile. I was like, that's what I had to do. And I'm like shit, yeah. So you kind of feel like you have purpose, like going to school like that. It's like a lot deeper than just like getting a degree from somewhere you know or just throwing on a singlet and being in a conference.

Like it really is a lot deeper than that. For me, at least, for a lot of other people, it's just like, oh, you live your college life. But for me, it's like the, I would have, everything that I have now I would not have had if I hadn't gone to Villanova at all. If you'd went home because you were homesick or whatever. If I had went home, if I had decided to go to a different college, like, it just would have been different.

It would have been the same. Wouldn't have the connections I have now. I wouldn't have my girlfriend who I love. So like I wouldn't have all of that shit, which I'm like, that's something I'm so grateful for. Yeah. You know. When did you start like making waves at Villanova? Because like from what I've noticed, I've noticed you probably about the last year.

And you're always like, you know, the end. interview people talk about because you're always saying whatever crazy shit or you're saying you're confident or you have good sound bites so when did when did you that person start coming out that was always there I had the opportunity I remember there was an interview I had my sophomore year and I just like was talking like this and I'm just like being myself and people didn't like it and I'm like all right well fuck you guys I'm gonna or even after my freshman year at USA's they asked like it was me and this kid Leo Young and they were like, how did you feel

like how does it feel getting like because as a U.S. team we got third as a team. That's the first time we've ever done that in like 50 years. It was huge accomplishment and I was like that was fucking awesome. Dude, so many people got mad at it and I'm like y'all are like so soft like what?

Like what? Like dude this sport is ridiculous. If you go into any other sport like that's just normal. Like that's just normal behavior and I feel like I was just always like that you know, like in the locker room, just around my friends. And it's just like, I'm not going to change myself, like, in front of a camera. Obviously, I like, after a race when I'm wired off caffeine and running fast and, like,

you're in a competitive environment. I'm not going to be like that when I'm hanging on the couch watching fucking Love Island. Like, you know, like, that's dumb. Like, what? But, um, it's like fighters after the fighting in the octagon. They say crazy shit. Yeah. But what do you expect?

Like, yeah, what do you want me to like? Oh, my God. Do you want to go, well, that was, I'm very satisfied with my performance. Yeah, I'm like, bro, what? And people are like, this sport needs to be exciting. And then the same people are saying that. I say what I want to say. And they're like, and they're got a problem with them.

I'm like, bro, like, you're such a virgin. Like, what are you doing? Well, it's like, I've heard this. I think I mentioned this to you before. But somebody said, and I wish I could remember where. But like, the longer the distance goes on the track, the less personality. these shows like yeah you know because you got no lials or shikari richardson lots of personality they're done in you know nine or 10 seconds and then you got like the guys out for to the marathon is just like

quiet just putting in work just out there not no no crazy those are mostly just Kenyans so i like those people but like no i mean i don't know i don't know i mean i feel like you you have so much time in your own head like when you're training like that that's like you become more more at peace but like Yeah. Then there's a time where you're just like, you got to fucking be able to send it. You know, there's got to be some sort of aggression in what you're doing. And like I feel like this past outdoor season, I tried to be a bit more just like tamed and especially like my last bit at Villanova.

Like besides Penn Relays, like that was a great time. Like great interview, whatever. But lost the first day, one the second day. And it was like, I mean, Penn and Relays is like very emotional to us because that's just like our deep connection with the alumni, back home and everything and like just a big northeast thing. And that to us is like huge. and the element i love that but like the rest of the season was just kind of like mellow i feel like

everyone's vibes were just kind of like dead and i'm a person who draws off energy like i need to be around good energy positive energy like or i'm gonna make my own positive energy i'm like i just need to have some energy to feed off of like you like there's a saying it's like you're never tired when you're winning right you know you're never like yeah it fucking sucks when you're losing and yeah you feel dismotivated but if you're in a fatigable like you're Like you're never tired if you're winning. Like if you're winning, you're just on a complete role. It's just you have to find a way to keep doing that.

And sometimes I just feel like the best things in life are when you do lose because it just reminds you like what it takes to get back to the top. Like you got to keep reminding yourself. So it's like failing at NCAAs and getting forth. Like that was when I was like, fuck, you know what? Like I need to fully like engage myself. You know? I know you mentioned tactic was not to your.

strength because there's surges and things like that but like in your in your mind's eye with your confidence you probably your goal this whole time was when i my last year of villanova i'm going to win this title right yeah absolutely so how do you deal with i know you said it's like you're not really thinking about it right now yeah but is it just get back to work essentially because that's i mean because you've been working your ass off here this week yeah i know yesterday you had a huge day yeah yeah i mean it's just what am i got like i'm now this is my job it like doesn't matter how you feel like I don't think I think like the happiness bullshit and like being happy you know I think that shit's overrated like you'll get happy from when you achieve your accomplishments or when you're

on the journey but like maybe me being happier maybe in a good mood or having an accomplishment or not having it is going to dictate what I do so it's like even if I do lose and fail and like that like that was my last opportunity to chase like a dream of mine doesn't mean I'm just going to fucking think about it forever like that's like that's like that's like that's like Like I'm not a fucking idiot, you know. But like I'm just going to move on to the next thing. That's what you got to do. You got to fully like just move on.

And even if you don't move on, you could say in that same spot, but you got to keep putting it in the work. So like the next day ran a six mile run. Then I did a 12 mile run. Then another 12 mile day. Then yesterday was a 20 mile day. And today will be another 12 mile day. Tomorrow will be a 20 mile day.

And I'll take an off day and a 14. And it's just it's just on and on and on. until the next race. So put it in work. Yeah. And like, like you're never tired when you're winning, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

That's true. I love that. Because also, even if you are tired, who gives a fuck? Yeah. Nobody cares. Yeah. No one cares if you're sad. No one cares about, like no one actually cares about you.

Like that's the thing people got to realize is no one cares about you. Like no one cares about you except for your family. Like maybe even your friends. Maybe if you're lucky. but like no one actually cares people are fucking selfish people want the best for themselves and it's like fair enough like that's just like survival so life um how do you deal with it because you are so outspoken and confident that does if you do like not achieve what you wanted that does open you up for criticism yeah like how does do you like not give a shit about that or no no like there'll be like

like i'll i don't want to get canceled i probably not going to say but like i'll i'll i'll i'll I'll look at the person, I'll look at the people commenting and I'll like see like a bad comment or some shit. Whatever you would constitute is a bad comment. And I'll like look at their profile picture and look at their bio. And if I see certain things, I'm like, yeah, well, these guys clearly don't know what they're talking about. So why should I even care?

So yeah, usually I'll just like look at that or like I'll just make a funny comment back. Like some kid actually commented. I remember when I lost the day of the DMR or something like that, like at Penn Relays, someone commented at simian burnbaum's gonna take your girl and i was like all right so then i went to the kids following looked up his last name found his mom's instagram and then i was like cool then i'll just take at and then just out of his mom so it's like you want to play you want to play games like that like we'll play games like that you want to say bullshit like i don't care like i know how to take shit you play that game too i'll play both games i'll go fuck like yeah yeah it's just how it is but um

no i really don't care for the most part like why should why should someone's like comments affect how affect myself like they're not paying me yeah they're not they're the only thing that they're doing is just like typing yeah on a fucking keyboard well like unless they're paying me a hundred thousand dollars to change who i am which i still won't change who i am but i'll take the hundred thousand to make them happy but like if if they're not paying me why would i care about like what they got to say well and also them having a comment helps you. You know what I mean?

Because you, you, you make people respond either good or bad because you, you push the envelope. And it's like, that makes you,

like I tell Truitt, attention is currency. So if you're getting attention, you're making more money. Yeah. And like, and I also tell them too is you have to make people care.

If people don't care about you, you're not making any money. Because fucking do your, make people care about what you're doing. Yeah. That's the whole thing. If you have passion and you're good and your whatever, speak it. Yeah.

Because you have to make people care about whether you succeed or fail. I mean, like what we were talking about the other day, like we were talking about Jesus. And it's like, Jesus was the perfect person, the most perfect person in the world. Yeah. And people are criticizing him. Crucify.

Like crucified. They killed him. They mocked him. And like God, people criticize God and people say all this shit about like God or whatever you believe in, whatever you believe in, whatever the highest power, anyone on this podcast believes. it like that's listening believes in that person whatever you believe in is getting criticized by other people so it's like if that person can't be perfect how the fuck am i supposed to be

perfect i know i hear you i do i do like that you're i remember this there's this one guy talking shit about me and my family but i said something called him a i commented like fucking clown or i can't remember what it was but he he said somewhere like he's never had anybody speak to him like that And I'm just like, what? Okay, you haven't been around, you haven't, you weren't raised the same way I was, I guess. Yeah, I mean, dude, I've been called every name in the book by my friends. Me too. Like, you think I give a fuck about a comment.

Like, dude, I'm like looking at their profile picture. Usually they're just like fatted shit. It's lazy. I don't know, bro. Like, they're just ridiculous, dude. It's so stupid. Yeah. No, it's, uh, social media is interesting.

But you, I mean, you've done a good job of making people care. And so it's like that's and when you do that, people either love to see you win or love to see you fail. Yeah. One or the other, right? And you got a lot of people who love to see you win. Yeah. And it's like I was so I'm curious like through your career, do you have, did you have rivals? Like that you?

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shot free on the college scene i mean one of my it's funny because not neither of us won the national title this year but uh it was a kenyan kid brian msau and i was i was wanted to beat him so badly. Was that the DMR or you're sprinting at the end? No, no, no. It was the, that was Simian Burromba. That was just like, I mean, he ran. I know, but there's another one with a, it's like red, a red singlet.

Maybe he was some of the race. Right. Singlet. I think it was a different race. Yeah. Well, this one was like, this one was, so yeah, Brian, right? What were we talking about? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He runs for Oklahoma State. And to me, like, that guy was a standard, you know, like, like, that guy is, like, at the standard. So it's like, I want to pass a standard. I want to break this kid.

And this entire fall, I would post shit on my Instagram story in Swahili. So, like, so I know he would be reading it. Yeah. And I would be, like, kind of going at him almost because, like, that's the guy. Like, I was going for the way. Like, what would you say? Just like, I'm going to take everything from you. Yeah.

Yeah, but I was saying the shit in Swahili, like, and because I wanted to beat him so badly, to me, that was like everything I cared about. I don't give a fuck how crazy that sounded. I was just like, this is what I want to do. And it happens like, I was like, there was a race that we had in December that bought BU 5K. And there was a kid, Hampton Samuel, and he was like the national champion, like the past indoor and outdoor season. He's, fuck, he's insane. He's so good. But fuck him.

Who does he run for? He runs for New Mexico. Oh, maybe that's a red scene. Yeah, blue singlet. Oh, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

After this BU race, Brian didn't run. He was back in Kenya and haved him that I lost to him like by point zero zero one of a second. I was right there. Yeah. And dude, I just was like. Like I was fucking pit. I was so mad. And like it was my motivation just beat him and beat him.

And like all indoor season, I was like, I'm going to beat this guy. I'm going to beat this guy. Indoor nationals came. Brian wasn't running because he had been injured sadly. But tactically, like I just didn't run well. The next day, tactics didn't work. And then this year, I just, I tried going to the front against the tactics I usually do and completely fucked myself and just died.

And like, oh, it's just. It makes you miserable, but like, but at the end of the day, like, now my motivation, like, is to beat that guy. Like, the next time I race against him, like, I'm going to make sure I get that back in blood. I'm going to make sure I'm just, fuck. It's like, I'm going to do anything I can to be. I will fucking die to beat him.

Like, I'm going to go to the well every single time I race now. Like, I mean, I have a great block of training under me. Like, now it's about just like feeling, right? Like, not being under fuel, not being, like, tired or anything like that. And just doing everything, right? because these are guys I just want to fucking kill them, you know? Like, you want to, like, like, you see, like, maybe it's like a bit different for you because you're not, it's not like you don't have war with like a bear.

Yeah. But, like, you want to put an arrow through their fucking lungs. Yeah. Like, that's the type of, like, mentality I have every single time I race. Predator and prey. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to beat these guys every single time. And it's like, I know, like, obviously, like, like, realistically, because you got to be

realistic on certain things. like Grant Fisher has a shit ton more aerobic capacity than I do but it doesn't mean every single time I step on the track I'm going to go not want to beat him I'm going to want to fucking kill this guy every time I get onto the track and I'm like bit by bit year by year I'm going to get closer and closer and closer

to the point where I'm going to be able to beat him yeah and I do think I could be like I still do think I could beat all these guys you know like this year oh this year like I mean I'm friends with this kid Parker Wolf from UNC you around 1248 in the 5k but doesn't mean I'm gonna fucking, I wanna kill him in the two mile next week at pre. Like, I want to go after this kid's neck. I'm gonna go after his throat.

Like, that's just how it is. And then I give myself, like, after the season, I give myself, I want to give myself the best pro training block you could possibly have. Like the most training I could possibly fit in, get to altitude for as long as I can. And then when I come down, try to make myself unbeatable. Like, that's how you, that's just how you got to think. Right. And if you don't think like that, then you're just going to be left behind because you've got to have

some form of an ego whether it's outspoken or internally you have to have an ego yeah but you have to have because ego like the ego gives what you're doing in life a purpose if you don't have an ego the shit that you're doing doesn't have purpose you need to have purpose but you need to have ego without having the ups and downs mentally because when you have ups and downs mentally then you're attaching your your feeling right to the purpose you can't attach feelings to the purpose purpose is just the purpose and the purpose is a task and that's a task well you're superpower or anybody's superpower that's going to read the reach the top is work who can put in the most work yeah you know and that's why Kobe Bryant always like was intentional about how he could

get in more practice than everybody else even though he's already like the most talented Jordan was like you watch um uh the last dance and like in the drills he's beating everybody yeah he's already the greatest basketball player but also outworking him so your attitude and and everything, you're so like, you're obsessed with improvement because you can't wait for that big block to do everything perfect. But the fact that you love the work, that's what's gonna set you apart.

It's like you're gonna outwork everybody. Yeah. You believe in yourself almost more than everybody already. So then, and you're talented. So then it's just like, okay, who's gonna outwork you? Nobody. But so what about Simeon? Is he a rival?

Yeah, I mean, I would say he's definitely a bit of a, like, different event groups and like i came down and beat him in his own event group you know what i mean like in running the dmr sorry in the four by mile um yeah i just think he's he's more of a fit he's he's just a 1500 runner you know those guys didn't he run the 5 000 with you how did he do oh i mean he was talking to all this shit like oh i'm gonna hurt more than anybody else in this race i'm like all right well if you win the national title are you still gonna hurt no and like he's gonna if he says like oh like my coach told me to drop out, well, do you care about yourself or do you care about your fucking

coach? Yeah. Like you're saying all this. Like, he didn't say I'm going to hurt more than anybody else unless my coach tells me I can. Yeah, yeah, no. I'm like, if you're going to hurt, like, go, go hurt, go out and hurt. Like, it fucking sucks. Like, just because you think you're going to lose, doesn't, like, I mean, Gary Martin, he ran the 1500. Like, that takes balls. He ran the 1500 and the 5K. And even though he got 20th in the 5K, he didn't drop out. Like, that's bullshit, you know, like, you don't drop out of races. Fuck that. So you respect Gary Moore for sticking with it? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, and also, like, you got to respect the guy like Simeon, like, going out there and, like, winning the 15-house. Like, there's obviously, like, respect. It's a big deal. Like, I respect people who fail and, like, we'll keep going. Like, that's what you got to respect. You can't look at someone through their wins. You have to look how people handle their losses.

That's, like, the biggest thing. There's a big race coming up next weekend as Western States endurance runs. There's a very competitive 100-mile. I think the guys you talk to on coffee club probably. maybe those guys, maybe one of them run it. But anyway, there was a previous champion just like, I think last year, he had won the race.

Last year had a shitty race, Adam Peterman, stuck with it. And normally, like, the winners are around 14, 15 hours. Yeah. He finished, like, just under 24 hours. Holy shit. 10 hours off, but finished. Yeah.

Didn't drop. You know, didn't say, like sometimes people say, well, I'm saved myself for the next race. or something like that. But I totally respected that. You know, he stuck with it, didn't quit when obviously the race didn't go his way. Yeah. So I think that's cool too.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's pretty sick. Yeah. So tell me how you think the pro race is going to go, the two mile coming up. It's going to go out and win it. And even if I don't win it, I'm going to be damn near close. Like, I'm just, like, I'm not going to go out there and say I'm going to lose, you know.

Did they run it every year? They run the two mile. or it's like either a 3k or a 2 mile it depends but like what usually wins at what time i have no idea honestly i don't really i like to be honest i really don't as much as i love running like i'll only watch the older races i don't watch the new races because it's like i'm not going to act like i'm a fan either yeah but like i'll watch old races but i mean like they've broken two or eight minutes in the minute and fuck eight minutes two mile yeah yeah like i don't know just get up to get up be in the mix and just be on these guys.

And I mean, like, I know I have really good wheels, like really good turnover. It's just about like being energized, being fueled and being able to fully like be at them, be at them the whole time. Well, you know, you know what they want to do. Try draw me. Yeah.

You're going to have to try. They're like, here's this young cocky kid. We're the old pros. We've got to show them. Like, it's kind of like when Caitlin Clark went to the dummy a BA. They were just like beating the fuck out of her. and she's still lighting them up. So there's going to be that

where they're going to want to teach you a lesson. Yeah. So are you ready? I'll teach them a lesson. I love it. Yeah. I love it. So do you want it to be a fast race?

I just want to be a race. Yeah? I just want to be a race. You don't care whether it's tactical or fast. No, it won't be. It's going to be like a paced race. Like people are going to be on the pacer. It's not going to turn tactical because people want to run fast.

I want to get to these races and compete. Like that's where I want to be. I don't want to. I don't want to just be like bullshitting out the backs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm pumped to watch it.

Yeah. I'm super pumped to see your first pro race. Yeah. No, I'm super excited. It's going to be great. Does Prefontein do they pay? Like, is it, do you get paid to go to run there? I don't know.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not really sure how that works. But like that is all still so new to me. My agent, I'll figure that out, James. Yeah. Is he good agent? Yeah, he's awesome. He was David Rudisha's agent.

He would choose a 800 meter world record holder. He was Bernard Lagat's agent who's like number two all time in the 1500. He ran like 326. Who else? He's Cam Myers as agent, Gout Gout, a Peter Bowl. So he has really, big names. Yeah, he has really good athletes. And he only works with like about like maybe six athletes at a time.

Like I really don't know, but it's like it's definitely not more than 10. Like definitely not more than 10. But because he's so tent. towards the athlete and he wants to be he's very hands-on, which is something that I needed in an agent. You know, I was talking to a few, but like I knew that J-T would be the best because he's just so hands-on and he's no bullshit.

And it's like if you're, he doesn't want you to be a pussy. Like he wants you to be like, you go out, you give 100% every single time. Yeah, I like that. Oh, yeah. So you are a student of like the history of running. So you say you don't pay attention to the guys now,

but like who's the person? people you look up to like the older runners definitely like aiming coglin nor do morselisi it was really cool merrisfifter who like they call me after the shifter like guys like that guys were back then like the 70s 80s yeah that era like they were so sick just because they were badasses they were just cooler you know there was more like individuality there was more like like you even look at it in their faces when they're on the track there's just more passion there's more shit there you know there's just more like there's just more something. I don't know,

maybe track was just like bigger back then but yeah, definitely Eamon Coglin. That's who my hero is. Really? Yeah, he won the 1983. He won

1983 Helsinki World Championships in the 5K. Then he was the first person ever break 350 in the mile indoors multiple time. Millrose Games winner. And he was just sick.

He's so cool. Yeah, just an old Irish guy. And like I have his book too. Like he's just awesome. Chairman of the Boards, Master of the Mile. Oh, nice. It's just, it's his autobiography. And it just, it's almost like a journal kind of and tells us all about his story.

And it's like, I've talked, I've spoken to him a bunch. Like, I kind of could just like, you hear his voice. Like, you hear his voice when you're reading his words, which is like something I like never really have had in a book. Yeah. So it's cool. So you spoke to him? He's just a, just a typical Irish guy, man.

Like I saw him at the bar after Penn Relays last year. we had lost and he just gave me a lot of motivation to get back and I remember after I had lost nationals this year he he like I was calling him he's like yeah you fucking lost he's like how the fuck I he's like I got fourth in the Olympics twice how the fuck do you think I feel no shit and I was like oh yeah fair enough like that of that Olympic defeat but uh that's a little different than NCA yeah definitely a little different and then um another guy that I'm friends with I don't know if you know what Ardican is but it's a bracelet company they do like like these like little like they're like pretty much all the profits go to like clean water in

Kenya and Africa yeah and like these braces are like really popular like distance running and everything and the guy he's good friends with Paul Chilima Paul Chulima never won an NCAA title but he has two Olympic silver medals wow so yeah so yeah you can't get too wrapped up on yeah milestones along the way yeah yeah so like what's your what's your goals with running being an Olympic champion Yeah. I mean, that's an ultimical, you know, that's like the ultimate goal is to be an Olympic champion. That's just like, that's a pinnacle of any sport like ever. So it's like you do that.

You're the fucking, you're the best. What's going to happen? What event? Any event. Yeah. I just want to be the Olympic champion. It doesn't matter, you know. So you do.

Yeah. What do you do? Like, you do the 15 and the five. Do you do others? Not at the moment, no. But like, I mean, I'm definitely people saying more with 5K runner. than 1,500 runner. I think I'm more of a 1,500 guy,

and I think a lot of people now think that. I think it's just, like, my strength is my strength, like, just having aerobic strength. But I also have a shit ton of foot speed to where I go down to the 1,500, and it's just like I'm able to close hard, you know? Yeah. You said 332? 332 is my best, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's fast still, right now even. I know Cole had a really good Olympic run, That's competitive and you're young. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I could see we're 1,500. And then what's your 5K?

13.05. Yeah. I mean, you could do either one. Yeah. Good runner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's pretty fun to see or to think about. And then you haven't done a 10,000 yet, right? No. Uh-huh. What about 800? 800. Worse event ever. Too short.

Really? No, I'm not a good 800 runner. Okay. I could run 48. No, 400. but if it comes to the 800, I just that shit hurts. Wheels come off.

Yeah, wheels come off. I just don't know. Maybe I just need to get used to the pace and everything like that. Probably. 2408s would work to back to back. 2.48s would be I should quit distance running and be a 800 runner.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, I could probably run like 145, I feel like. That's fast? Yeah, it's fast, but it's not fast. Like what's world record? 140.9. God. So 5.6.

seconds. That's a lot. But 145, when you just think about it, just by itself, it seems fast until you think about the 140. Yeah. Yeah. So any other runners that, like you said, Eam and Coglin, anybody else that you followed very close?

I like the history of the name. Sebastian Co. Yeah. Sebko and like Steve Ovet, that rivalry. I love talking about the old Villanova alumni, too, because, like, they just would always shit on Prefonte. and like they hate a prey. Yeah.

But yeah, no, it's great. It's fun. Like, just hearing the stories they have to say about, like, just everything, you know, just about, like, like their lives back then and everything. And, like, like, I mean, for example, we had a guy, Dave Patrick on our team. He won the Olympic trials and that were in L.A.

For the New Mexico City, yeah. Or sorry, the Mexico City Olympics. And because Mexico City was at altitude, they won't have a second trial. trials, but they were like, if you win the first trials, like you're automatically on the team. And Dave Patrick had won the trials. And then Bowerman, the coach of Oregon at the time, he was like, oh, no, I think, well, we should change the trials and we should make it so the

this Lake Tahoe Olympic trials. This is the one that counts. Was he the Olympic coach or something? He was like something involved in the Olympic committee. I don't even know if he really was. I think it was just the Oregon coach. Just a big voice. But he just fucking hated Villanova. because he's from the West Coast. So then they changed it.

They just listened to him. They did like a bow and they listened to him. And they, which like obviously like people are going to vote for the trials to be in Lake Tao because that's another spot that would get open. So everyone's going to vote again. They changed it and Dave Patrick got fourth and then didn't make the Olympics and quit running at 21.

But then that like instilled like a deep, deep rooted hatred for University of Oregon. Yeah. Well, we did look up. And, you know, I love pre, but you are, you have better numbers than him and I think everything. Yeah, yeah. I guess you can talk shit if you want. Yeah.

Yeah. And pre's never won a race when he went over to Europe. I know you told me you were going to have a guy's got that out. Yeah. So what does that say about him, you know? He never lost at Hayward. Never lost at Hayward. Never won a pet and relay wheel, though.

So maybe we just needed to have the Olympics at Hayward. Maybe. See, gold medal. Yeah. So tell me about your very, you know, is it here tell me about shooting a bow dude it was sick like i've shot before but like the amount of technicalities that you see in bow hunt it or bow like just shooting in general it's crazy i've never like seen like how technical it got you shot great really yeah that was it actually good oh yes

yeah yeah it's why i say you can kill something yeah no that's why i say you can kill something yeah no i want i want to kill something so bad like i feel like that shit would be so fun like it just it's so cool it was actually like it's something i'm excited to do like during training camps like just take my bow and go fucking just shooting targets and just keep practicing and like getting better at that i feel like that would be sick it would be cool to be able to hit something from 100 yards oh so it's there's something like and i like putting a balloon out there so you can watch it and you watch that arrow track to it and then you get the visual of like you hit what you do shooting at it's just fun and like the longer that

you shoot the longer the arrows in the air and the more anticipation is great yeah but uh yeah you shot you shot so good and like your interest in hunting is cool I mean it's like that's what I love I want to expose people to my life and hope that it resonates and that it means something and they get it a little bit and I feel like you did because we've talked about bear hunting and deer hunting in Texas and we're going to make it happen yeah no I'm super excited like yeah it's definitely something I'd want to get into in the future I mean like especially to like I would be sick just be eating fucking venison or like some just bear meat like imagine just fucking like eating bear meat during training.

You're badass. Yeah, and be sick. Yeah. If, like, if you think, what else would give you more confidence than eating a fucking bear? Yeah, I know. Oh, would you eat a salad? Oh, I ate a bear. Yeah.

So fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think about, like, my training, my little mountain runs? Dude, it's a completely different sport. Like, it's a different, it's just a different sport. Like, it's something like I've never done. I'm great at like uphill running, but that was like the whole like winding and especially going downhill.

I felt my fucking femur was going to like snap out of my fucking quad. Yeah. Like it's just a whole different sport. Like it's definitely not for me now, but I could see myself. Like because I loved the view and everything and like getting up the mountain like looking at the view is great. But it's something like I'm like, fuck like it would definitely be hard to supplement into my training now. But it's like it's just a different sport. Like it's just you need to be good at that type of stuff.

and it's just something like I haven't worked on. I wonder if out of a specific training block, if you like incorporate some mountain runs just to like build those quads up. Definitely cross country training. You like, I mean doing a long run where like maybe part of it's through the fucking mountain. Yeah.

If you're doing 15 miles and five miles are of that and then you just got 10 more miles to go, like I feel like that would be pretty good. That's kind of like what we did today is we go to Spencers do the climb on the trail. and then I come down to the road and then kind of open it up a little bit. Yeah. Seems like a good, good mix.

Yeah. But we did Spencer's and Piscay and you got the record on Piscay. How'd that feel? Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Well, I looked at my watch and I didn't think I got it. I'm just going to get, I fucking read my watch wrong or a different split or whatever. Yeah. And then I was like, holy shit.

Like, that's pretty cool how I got it. But it was fucking hard. Did it hurt? Yeah, it hurt because I was trying to sprint the hell away. I know. I had to stop, walk and then sprinting again. And then just I was going to try to get as close as I could do it. And then so we did that.

And then we did my little finisher. How was that? That's why I run up to the swing. That was a lot better, but going downhill was the hardest thing. I was getting dropped on the downhill and I just needed to fly back up the finish. Yeah, that was so fun. Yeah. Oh, dude, I've had a great time.

We've really enjoyed having you here and running with you. It's like, you know, I'm a fan. Definitely like following you. Love your interviews. Hey, you got any questions? over there for Marco. Yep. What do you got?

Okay. Is this thing on? Here we go. Yeah. Fuck Mary Kill. Oh. James, his mom. My mom and my dad.

Oh. No, I'm kidding. Oh, okay. I'd start with fucking you. And then. Don't you want to see his mom first? Yeah, I do want to actually see him. Hey, where's that painting?

Okay. Fuck Mary Kill. Obviously running, cooking, and getting tattooed. Oh. Oh. I could kill tattoos. I could be done with tattoos. Okay.

I would fuck cooking and then marry running. 100%. That seems about. Married to the game. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. But cooking's just like a side piece.

Side hustle. That'll be after you're running. Yeah, after the running. Do you think that you, like after your running career, yeah, you might take up a career in cooking, or is that something you're still passionate about? It's something I'm still passionate about for sure, but like I just don't know.

Like, I mean, I would have been happy. Like, if I had no responsibilities, if I didn't like fucking want to have a family and like my girlfriend or fucking like my mom and shit and it was just me, like I would love to just be a line cook for the rest of my life. life, but I don't think that's that. That's not very functional. Yeah.

So, yeah, probably have to. Providing for a bunch of people. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, so if you weren't a runner, do you think that's what you'd do? Yeah. For a job? Yeah, probably.

That or steal. Like, one of the two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good job. Yeah. At least he's honest.

Yeah. That's good. At breakfast the other day, you're one of the two. saying you really enjoy just like going somewhere sitting down and people watching. Yeah. What is it about people you love to watch? Just how fucking dumb it could be. I don't know.

You can learn so much from people. Like, I don't know. I just love, I think I just love sitting down. Like that as a pro as a pro runner and like every pro runner will agree with this that you wake up, you run. You like pretty much will wake up. You'll have a coffee like in your room. You'll run. You'll shower or you don't even shower.

You'll just go from the run and meet people for coffee. You'll be there. Let's just say you finish your run at 9. You get to coffee at like 9.30 at like 9.30 to like 1130. Yeah. Then you'll eat lunch. And then you'll take a nap. You'll wake up.

You'll run again at like 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock. You'll go out to dinner, eat dinner, cook dinner. And then you'll just fucking hang out with your friends and then go to bed. That's literally all pro running is. It's like coffee is like the social time. where like everything happens. It's like, oh,

did you hear what you said at coffee the other day? Like that's like, like I was just on a podcast the other day, coffee club. And I like, that's literally like,

that's what they would do. They just sit and fucking drink coffee and talk and they decide to make a podcast. And it's pretty sick. Like, dude, I was, I would watch them all the time.

Like, there's, they're so dope. But, uh, yeah, I mean, that's sort of what we have.

We ever like, own little group that runs our river, this place called River Road by Trump golf course and Bedminster. And the two guys that you had met, Brian and Collins, like us too, my friend T.J. My friend James and Finn, and Finn actually had just gotten married, which is sick. And then one of our friends, Hybel, and then we'll go get breakfast. And then I'll be like, oh, actually, no, because sometimes they won't want to get breakfast,

but I'll wait till the top of the hill or during a hill when we're sprinting up it. And I'm like, you guys want to get breakfast. So they have no choice but to say yes. So then we'll say yes. I'll agree to that. And then they'll be like, oh, we just have to be somewhere at like 10, 30 and I'm like, oh, okay. And like at 10.15, I'll be like, so, well, we're getting coffee. And then we'll just go get coffee until like 1 o'clock. There you go. It's almost time to run again.

So, yeah. Coffee's definitely like just like sitting there watching people on the street and shit. Do you, uh, is there any other podcast you listen to? Or just that one? I listen to yours a bit. I actually do. I listen to a good amount of people on this. And then, um, Joe's, I just watched clips from.

Yeah. Joe Roken. Yeah. I just watch the clips from his. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you win that Olympic goal, you'll be on there. Oh, hell yeah. That'd be sickly. I got to get on that. Yeah. Yeah, it's a big platform.

I always, when I go on there, I'm like, try not to say anything stupid. Yeah. Because so many people listen. Yeah. It's kind of stressful, actually. Yeah, I could imagine. What else you got, James? Obviously, like, your upbringing, your childhood, there's maybe things left to be desired, but do you think you would change it if you were given the chance to? Absolutely not. I love how I grew up. Like, as much as sometimes you're like fuck like holy shit like i would not have changed the thing because it made me who i am today uh definitely made me who i am today i have the people i have in my life now and it's yeah i wouldn't wouldn't want to change it for a second like i love my mom and she loves me so it's like yeah having that bond with her and like my love my sister and all that like having that bond is so

so important yeah your mom should be proud of you you're a you're a good young man you want to provide for your family it's you know kids your age usually are pretty selfish Yeah, definitely. And you aren't, so I'm, she should be very proud of you. Yeah. Thanks. What else you got? That's all.

Yeah, that's all you got. Yeah. Anything else you want to close out with? What do you think? Shit, man. Yeah, no, not nothing. I'm all good. Like, this was sick.

It was thank you for having me here. Like, this is unbelievable time. Like, love hanging out and stuff and just like getting to know you guys and like your family and shit. It's super cool. Yeah. It's been great. Been great having you here.

It's been, it's a challenge for me trying to keep. up but I appreciate it. Yeah. Your five minute miles yesterday on the track looks like you're just jogging a nine minute mile. I was getting dropped out here today so on the fucking mountain. That's all good. Well, Marco, I appreciate you. I can't wait to follow your pro journey and starting with the prefontaine classic. I'm going to be there. I'm going to see what how this starts off and I'm pumped and I believe in you. Hell yeah. I mean, I think you have a bright future and I can't wait to watch it. Hell yet. Thank you, Camp.

Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Keep hammering, guys.