Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 200 - Kyle Cokinos

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

Kyle Cokinos - devoted husband, father of three, and business owner who constantly pushes the limits of human endurance. A lifelong Texan outdoorsman raised fishing the Gulf Coast and hunting greenheads in flooded timber, he has competed in four straight HYROX World Championships (2022–2025), multiple 100-mile races, and an Ironman under 10 hours. He even set a Guinness World Record by covering nearly 94 miles on foot in 24 hours while playing the most golf holes ever. Follow Kyle: https://www.instagram.com/kidcoki/  Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Stacking Days and Haters on Social Media 00:09:27 – Full Time Dad, Business Owner, Fitness, & HYROX 00:14:21 – Mental Game Strength: Embracing Suffering 00:33:52 – Upcoming 100K Race Goals 00:36:29 – Training in Colorado & Elevation Work 00:45:39 – Ultra Races: Dipping Deep & the Mental Edge That’s Needed 00:49:22 – Brody Chisholm and Coach Smulders 00:51:49 – If Runners Competed in HYROX 00:53:41 – Marco Langon’s Hard Work & Character 00:56:43 – Upcoming Ironman Races 00:59:08 – F**k, Marry, Kill: Golf, Being Jacked, Being Fast 01:10:06 – How Faith Drives Performance 01:10:06 – Positivity During Painful Situations 01:17:43 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code CAM for 20% off & Free Shipping Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off

I've been shooting Hoyt for over 20 years now, and they're a lifetime partner of mine. That's not something I take lightly. I stay with partners that prove themselves, and Hoyt continues to do that year after year. They shattered the industry standards and built the AX90, the first 90-pound bow to exist and be offered to consumers. Why? Because I want a hard-hitting arrow delivered with enough force to push through, say, a rib or the edge of the edge of the of a shoulder blade because it's bow hunting. Not every shot is going to be perfect. But when the animal reacts, or maybe I don't make the most perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow and a 90-pound bow gives me more room for error. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows,

but if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code, CAM for 20% off. If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering. I use ketone IQ when I need to stay sharp for the long haul. Long runs, lifting, before I shoot my bow, even when I'm podcasting, anytime I want steady focus without crashing. What I like about it is how it feels. It helps me stay locked in during long efforts and mentally demercats.

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I hear them talking, saying the way that I'm moving so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. Where, what is your Instagram thing? Kid Koki. Kid Koki, yeah, because, yeah, I never know anybody's actual name because I'm always like looking at the Instagram thing. Right.

But I do know Kyle Kocodona. Yeah, Koconos. I would like Kocodona actually. Yeah. No, I knew it wasn't that, but Kyle Coconos. Okay, so, um, and, uh, Kid Koki, right? And then Stackin' Days. Stackin' days.

So what's stacking days? That's like, is like, like, is that like keep hammering? It's like a JV version. Okay. It's better than James. James is like, if it would be like, uh, eighth grade girls, B team. So at least you're JV boys. That's right.

We're a level up. Uh, yeah, just start. I mean, I didn't invent the term, obviously. Yeah. But it just was something I was saying on YouTube. Okay. The consistency over time, building the reps, it's just like heat hammering. Just over time, despite your circumstance, whether it's a 20-minute day or you've got a full session or whatever it is, if it's training, your faith, your work, whatever it is.

Family, just stacking consistency over time builds into something great. You just stacking days. So I just kept saying it, and people were like, I want a hat. make a hat. And so it's just kind of naturally turning into this thing, which is cool. Yeah, I like it. I mean, but it's a good reminder, too, that, yeah, it just, it's not going to take five minutes. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned 20-minute workout, but usually it's going to take multiple days, stacking days, putting in work. I didn't do much research, but you have a podcast. Yeah, I have like a little one. It's just kind of like my 15 to 20 minutes at the time. Yeah.

where I just kind of talk about my mental game of training for ultramarathons and being a dad, fitting in fitness and they're running a business, being a business owner, and my faith. And just trying to navigate that is really tough. So I just like to kind of just write my stuff out for the week and journal them and then just kind of consolidated into something I kind of share as like a recap of my notes. And so I'll just hit record on something like this and just kind of riff. So just, yeah.

Yeah, freestyle. I like it. I listened to a few yesterday. So, yeah, big on faith. I love that. Had the Tony Robbins thing in there. Yeah. I caught that.

But I think where I first, I'm sure I'd seen your stuff because if you're in the algorithm, you can't help to see it. Exactly. Once you touch it. Yeah. Just keeps coming. But then there was one, was it where you were getting hate because you're running with your kids with no shirt on or something?

Oh, yeah. Is that what I first noticed, I think? That's right. So what was that about? So I was called a performative male for run. I've got three daughters. They're two, one, and six months old. Wow.

And I've found a triple stroller on eBay. Stacking more than days. Stacking babies. Stacking babies. And I found this triple stroller. They don't make them anymore. Everyone keeps asking about that. But I take them on runs in Texas.

And it's, I mean, it's like 95, 100 degrees out there. Yeah. And so I was telling James on the way here, like the people that, hey, like you try and come out here and wear a shirt on like an eight or 10 mile. Oh, yeah. No chance. Brutal. And so people call me a performative male or he's gross or he's basically naked in front

of his children. What is he doing? People are so weird. Yeah. I mean, it's, and, you know, I was joking, like, just wipe the Cheeto dust off your bellies and get moving. Don't worry about me. Yeah, I mean, it's like, if they're criticizing how you look or you're acting

in front of your kids, could you imagine seeing the people that make those comments? Oh. I mean, come on. Exactly. You click on their profile. You're like, it says enough. I don't need to worry about them. You know, to me, it's like our job as a dad and men is to be the example.

And you are the example. You're showing what hard work, what responsibility, what raising kids, you know, focus on your fitness. You know, you talk about your faith. It's just like, if you're not the example, then who the hell is? Right. Jesus. But aside from that, I think you're doing a pretty good job. You know what I mean?

I appreciate it. And people are criticizing, I don't even, it's just weird. But anyway, I think it was because it's so weird is why I noticed it. And then I read it. Then I'm like, okay, this guy's kind of cool. Yeah, yeah. And it's more of a reflection on them. I mean, I hope one day they come around.

You know, it's all love, whatever. It's just a season of their life where they're hating on it. But the other one was when I did that video with my wife. She was delivering our third. Oh. I said I had to get on that threshold run. Oh, God, that's right. That was a funny one, too.

Yeah. Oh, I remember that. That was actually good acting because I think you were sitting there and you were like talking to her like, hey, so what do you think about something? Yeah. Okay. I didn't even put the connected dots that that was you also. Yeah, yeah, same one. And I got a lot of hate for that one too.

A lot of people are like, what a prick. Yeah. Like not knowing that we had two children. Like my wife is an angel and she plays along with that kind of stuff well. Right. Yeah, it was just a joke, just having a little fun. I thought it was, if, see, if people knew my history, they would know that I had my wife with our daughter,

I was supposed to go on a hunt coming up and is right at the due date. So it was just like, I was like, hey, what do you think about, could we induce this thing, get this thing going? And so Taryn was born and I took off that day. No. So it's like, no kidding. So I'm maybe in some ways I'm looking for people to be like

Okay I could yeah we're on the same page Yeah making me feel a little better But yeah I thought that was funny Yeah I was hilarious It's funny because your mind works like mine Like I we're just like like systems oriented Like okay let's have the baby

And that's cool and like we can we can move on to the next thing Yeah that's not a pro Like I even our first daughter when she was born Cass I went to Ironman Copenhagen Yeah. And I remember I was on the bike and I was like, what am I doing? This baby's doing like five days. And I was having such a bad race.

I was texting my wife like, how are you doing? How are you feeling? I wanted to drop out so bad. Yeah. I was, there was a cameraman there. I was asking him like, is she going in love her? I'd love her I'd love to pull out. Yeah.

But yeah, it's funny how we try and intertwine like these endurance feats with like the family and get these kind of funny stories and moments. And then you get. Like what I would do is I'd get halfway, just like you in that race, halfway in one and then you start, am I doing the right thing? Or you pass something up and then you're mad that you pass it up because you're like doing what you should be doing as a father. Exactly. And so it's always as balance. But yeah, so tell me like I guess we've talked a little bit just about like a few random things, but what are you about?

Yeah. What's your, what's your thing? I saw you have a pretty good following on Instagram. So what do you do? Yeah, I mean, this didn't all start to like. like probably a year ago. You know, I'm born and raised in Texas. I've got two amazing parents

that raised six of us. I'm the oldest of six. And we're all about top to bottom eight years apart. Grew up in a great home, the only home. And we all were tough love, like make fun of each other. And it was a healthy kind of love, all really a funny family. And so growing out of that, still live in Texas.

I got three daughters of my own. I run a business. We're in the bond world. We do surety bonds for Conchard. contractors oil and gas companies started that three years ago. But I kind of found fitness during COVID. Like got really serious about it. And it was, I was telling James at breakfast. I just just wanted to do the Murph workout. I just wanted to get really good with the Murph workout. Were you in shape at all? Not really. I was a high school golfer. Okay. Like I had a little bit

of a swimming background. No wonder you guys get along. Yeah, that's right. He told me he's a stick. He's like a scratch golfer. No, it was volleyball, right? Weren't you volleyball state champion? Yeah, volleyball. And Speech and a big. That's right. He's a chameleon. Okay, yeah. So golf, huh?

Yeah. Yeah, I got really dedicated with golf. And I got, I mean, I put 10,000 hours in the game, you could say, just serious about it. And, but, but, you know, I kind of moved on and went to college and didn't play. And then, but yeah, my training really started trying to get ready for MIRF. And then I signed up for a high rocks race with my brother. And then I was like, I need to get faster. I need to stop pushing the weight so much.

So this has been this balance of like. strength and getting faster. I mean, you know it. It's a tough one. Vanity and speed. It's a tough one. Yeah. That's how me and Truit always were. We're always like, yeah, we could be better runners, but do we want to look like that? Yeah. Exactly. And then like what it takes is like, well, you don't have to, but you're not going to be the best runner you can be carrying extra muscle, carrying extra pounds. So now we're like trying to get as skinny as possible. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird how that, you know, we battle with ourselves about image and appearance. and still want to do it all.

It's like that's where the hybrid thing comes out. You want to be strong and fast. And what I joked around or have joked on here before that when you say your hybrid means you're not really a good runner and you're not really strong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to half-ass at both. Exactly.

But that's a joke because like Nick Bear, he is fast and huge. Yeah, yeah, that was the joke. You're like, you're stronger than the runners and faster than the lifters. I mean, my buddy Hunter, McIntyre, he'd love to meet. Yeah, he's a piece. He is a beast. God dang. Back from World Championships and he's got the whole world of high rocks waiting for him to no rep and all that.

But he's, I would say, Hunter's growing that sport tremendously. What did mean no rep? Oh, you know, like he got penalized for maybe his burpee when he got up. He's feet placed like it's 30 centimeters. And I think he was, you know, there's a gray area. But he's got a million eyes on him and no eyes on the guy behind. But something he says going back to the whole strength and endurance thing is there's nothing sexy. than a champion.

Mm-hmm. And so top of the podium, you know, regardless of how that looks, like being fully committed, bought in is, and there's nothing better looking than that. No. I don't care. You'd be the skinniest guy ever. If you're the champion? Yeah.

It worked. Yeah, exactly. Nothing but respect. Yeah. Yeah. So he battles that same thing. I mean, I think everyone, a lot of people in high rocks are a little lighter than him, so. Yeah.

Yeah. He's kind of a, but he's a good runner for his size for sure. Oh, he floats. So who won that? Was that Eric? So Dylan Scott did. Oh, okay. Yeah, Dylan Scott did.

What did Eric? Oh, so Eric won the 45- to 49-year-old. Oh, I got you. He ran a fast time like an hour one, which is great. Yeah, because what's like elite nowadays? Is it a low 50s? No, that's very elite. Yeah, anything under 60.

Oh, under an hour. It's really good. I think the winning time in Worlds this year, Dylan's time was like 54 minutes. Okay, yeah. So, but super pumped for Dylan. Like he's, he's been one of the early on pioneers of like, I'm sticking to high rocks. I've told him before, you'd probably be a better triathlete. Yeah.

He's stuck to that, but he's like, no, bought in with high rocks. So you've done high rocks too. So what are you best at? Oh, that's a great question. World record golf, 100 miles. Yeah. The most obscure things ever. I don't really know.

I think I'm still trying to figure that out. Like, I think I'm a good runner. I'm a strong guy. I think my mental. game. My mental preparedness is like growing tremendously. I think one of the things is I got to be a really good high school golfer is I never worked on the mental game. And now I'm in this season of life where I'm out doing long training runs and I'm really invested like in my thoughts and how I'm talking to myself and how I'm gassed myself up for a 100 mile race like this Wyoming

range coming in August, like really just working on the mental game and just kind of bring him back that inner child of Kyle. So I think I think my mental game has become my strong suit. honestly something that i just completely neglected how and so where do tell me um give me an example of where you say your minimal game is is at the highest level i think just my ability to like bring myself back into the present moment like i can have things go wrong i'm never going to be the fastest guy and i know that yeah um but like people will call it gritty like i can just find my way to the finish or i can find my way to like i haven't won anything yet I'll say that. I finished second and third in a lot of things.

And I've run, you know, I've broken 10 hours in an Iron Man when I'm not really the guy that, like, should do that. I haven't been in this thing that long. But I'm just able to just kind of pull into that cookie jar of all that hard training and that work and give myself, I hate to say positive affirmation, but just really just be process driven and not be so attached to like, you have to win. but be able to just be present in the moment and not be so obsessed with the outcome, not be so emotional with the outcome. And like I'm really getting, I'm never going to perfect it,

but I'm getting closer and closer to that. What of, like what's your best discipline of the running, lifting, or running, biking, swimming? I think swimming. Swimming? I think swimming. That's your best?

I put no work towards it. I just do it on race day. And that's the, probably the least important of the three, right? It's for time. Because it's like you're in there the shortest of the others. Exactly. Right.

Exactly. So I think in California, it's a down current swim, but I was like at 54 minutes or something that's fast. But the biking, I have to give a lot of work and the running, I really have to get a lot of work. I think my dad's your marathon. I haven't run a solo marathon yet. Oh, okay.

I've just run 100 milers and marathons within Iron Man's. Gotcha. So you don't really know. No, I think in Iron Man, I think I did three. 338 in California. That was after the swim in the bike, obviously. Right, right. I think I would break three hours for sure right now, but it's tough to call.

What is that at $6.50? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You can do that at $6.50. I think we got that. Did I see you on Piscuit today? I did.

Oh. Did a couple loops? Did you? A couple of loops. How was it? I loved it. Yeah. I mean, I got in my Uber and I was like, I could run out here for 24 hours.

I think I texted James at too. Yeah. Because we don't have that in Texas, really. It's pretty flat. Yeah, for sure. So I spend about 50% of my mental capacity trying to figure out how I can get vert. I understand. Well, and then also the heat because, like, Truit's heat.

He's in Utah now. So he's been getting up like at 4.4.30 because I want to talk to you about your training and like where you said the mental thing because on those reps by yourself, that is mental. And like Trude gets, he gets up early because if. If it's hot and he's trying to get his workout in, he's not getting the speed because his heart rate's too high because of the heat. So he gets up early when it's cool so he can get those times that he needs because for him to get the, you know, the Olympic trials qualifier,

hopefully if he gets it, he has to develop that speed. Right. And like when we talk about the mental strength part, it's, and I was just with another, you know, phenomenal track athlete. And they have these, you know, there's all this stimulus. So you do these different 400s, 200s, mile repeats, K repeats, 5K repeats. And it's all different stimulus to develop something else that for the big picture you need. But what I always am curious about is when you're by yourself and you know you're supposed to hit this time or this effort, nobody really knows if you're,

giving your full effort but you. You're the only person who knows. And we always, we go through, especially if there's a crowd, we act, we'd put on a performance like we're hurting, like big, like this. Is that real? Because I've been around sports enough to know, it's not always real. I mean, I did a lot of spin classes over here at the gym. Just to, you know, it was back when you had to, I don't know if you still do it, but you turn the resistance up. And I'm like looking and I'm like, did you really turn that or are you acting like that's you know what it mean so we can't lie to ourselves that's a point right when you said when you say you're really embracing the suffering tell me what that means like because i know sometimes i'll run the mountain like you and some days

it'll be like if i can get up there in 17 that's a good effort that's a great time that's good but did that did I have more? Yeah. Why didn't I give it? God, such a good point. And you can only discover that, like, you can be pushed by buddies and stuff like that, and there's a lot of adrenaline that pumps through you, but you learn a lot about yourself. That's ego.

Usually, like, you want to beat your buddy. Yeah, and ego can be healthy to an extent, but it can't be your purpose. Like, you can't let it, your purpose be so wrapped and intertwined with ego, but it can push you. Yeah. Like, you can still be that guy. I can want to beat that guy. And if he makes me.

push harder than I would have by myself. Perfect. Exactly. And that's why we do these things, right? We sign up for these races because we like to compete. We like where it brings us and the results of pushing ourselves and our limits further. But I mean, and then you have this other side of you where you like to hunt and you like to be outdoors and I like to duck hunt and you just completely kind of detached and I'm like, you might subconsciously kind of go through, you know, who is Cam, who is Kyle. Why do I do this and my purpose? But when you're alone like that, you're developing that, I think you're developing that mental strength. And I don't train with anyone.

I mean, I'm alone at 4 a.m. just like you're saying, true it does. Because that's the only time I have. Once it's 7.30, all three of my girls are up and it's the work day. But I use that to my advantage. I have a lot of people that reach out and they say, man, how do you get the training in? I'm like, we're in construction.

And I don't have time for that, but I want to do 100 mile or something. I'm like, why don't you flip the script a little bit and think positively here. how many steps are you getting in a day? Like you're probably getting 30,000, 20,000 steps in a day. You're in boots. Your feet are strong. You're on them all day. And you're building mental tenacity,

which, like, once you develop the fitness and stuff, how much of the ultra-endurance stuff is mental? Yeah. And so you've ever felt that feeling where, like, you don't need a pacer and you just need to go. Yeah. And you just kind of need to be on your own.

I mean, I think that's a clear indication that you're mentally tough. You're building that mental toughness. Yeah. Yeah, I do think, and if you can get to the place where you can push yourself to suffer by yourself, then in competition, man, you know, you're going to be able to go even harder. Right. Because you want to beat the guy next to you, right? And so I just don't think people, I think it's rare for people to push hard enough by themselves.

I think that's really hard. It is. It's really hard to do that. But if you can, it's a superpower. And like, Truitt has that. He can actually suffer and it's not performative. It's real. Yeah.

And to me, like I said, it's a superpower because most people self-preservation, it protects us. So we can pretend like we gave an all out. Or it's like, no, it's not good for us to go that hard. But in the race, we're going to have to. So yeah, I'm always just fascinated by training. And, you know, because me and Goggins talked about this a lot, a lot of times, especially with the family, you train when you, when you have time. And your schedule is like when I was working, I couldn't steal from my family time. So I had to do it in the morning or at lunch at work when I wasn't going to see my family anyway or after they went to bed at night.

So that meant like anytime people talk about sleep, I'd be like sleep. I don't care about sleep. So popular right now. And it's like the point, now, but I couldn't care about sleep. To be honest, I didn't have time. I didn't have the luxury to care about sleep.

I will say now sleep is huge. Right. Sleep is like a PED. It's nuts. But when you're raising a family, what are you supposed to do? You don't have an option. I'm going to call in sick today to get sleep?

Yeah. You don't have the option. No. And it's like, Look at every... So why think about it? Yeah. Yeah.

And to get to the goal, like, you don't see people actively getting the goal. Like, in the prime of your grinding of building to who you are now, you weren't, like, calculated with sleep. You're calculated with training. Like, you don't hear the best in their worlds, the best in their abilities say, like, well, I just really have prioritized my sleep. I made sure I got eight to nine hours every. You don't really hear that.

You hear like about the long sessions like a Kobe Bryant. Yeah. You hear about the greats in their industry. You hear about them working hard. And yeah, then you make time for sleep. But like the recovery, you have to work pretty hard to really be that concern about recovery. Yeah, yeah. That's what I would.

I would always say. It's like people would talk about, oh, you're not getting enough sleep or they get whatever eight hours. If you're off, if you're giving 30% of your ability, you don't need to worry about eight hours of sleep. Right. Let's ramp up what you're giving and then we can worry about sleep because I'd be like,

you guys are all worried about sleep, you're giving a half-ass effort. That's right. I felt like I was given a full effort and I still didn't care about sleep because I couldn't. Yeah. I couldn't.

I didn't have that luxury. Where I think about people, when I think, especially because I talked to Olympians on here, for them, sleep is almost as important as the training as the reps because their body has to be at that highest level to get in the reps at the level the reps need to be at to be the best in the world. So unless you're an Olympian, I don't want to hear about your sleeping.

Like a full-time athlete. Like what true it's doing. Right. I mean, truly, like now that's part of your training plan. I think I heard Michael Phelps say, like if his REM and his deep sleep were 20%, or maybe he said each were 20% of his total sleep, he knew he could send it. Yeah. On that training day.

Yeah. And so, like, wow, he was that calculated with his sleep. Like that actually plays a major role. He's an Olympian. And so it's the same thing True, it's doing. Like, yeah, you can call it lazy or whatever, but, like, then you'd be so calculated that he can get eight hours of sleep

and go out that 4 a.m. session before the heat gets out and have the right amount of fueling, whatever it takes, and operate at that speed for that session to get the most juice out of that orange. And I don't think that people understand when you don't have to, when you're up at 4 on the track before the sun's up, trying to run like a 2,8,800,

I don't think people understand how hard that is. Not just getting your ass out of bed whenever time that was to be at the track at that time, but to give that effort when everybody else is sleeping, to me that was like, that gave me more inspiration or more like motivation

because I'd be like, yeah, all you pussies are sleeping. Must be nice. I'm on the, or on the road. I wasn't on the track, but true, it's on the track. To me, that was another feather in my cap. Like, yeah, I'm also sacrificing more than you guys. So we can trick ourselves into these things that, like, sacrifice more. Yeah, we're not getting the sleep we should.

But if we have this mental edge because we've convinced ourselves we want it more than everybody, that's a big deal. Yeah, and that's part of like this, if you either raise your actions to your desires or you lower your desires to your actions. And like, I'm going to choose raise the actions. Yeah, for sure. My sleep, it's lower on the totem pole right now in my life. I'm not saying it's not important.

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Also try new element sparkling, a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. You know, a good example of that I remember Jelly Roll on Trude's birthday we were hunting. And Truitt, he's had these big goals, you know, big, like lofty goals, right?

And Jelly Roll has talked to him, and he's having a couple not great marathons for him. You know, he wanted to be super fast. He's just like two 30s like just couldn't break through. Well, Jellie Roll was saying he's like, well, he goes, he goes, let me tell you, they gave me a, ask me a question like if I want to play an arena, do I want to go for like a 2000 to 4,000 seat arena, sell it out, you know, be able to put sold out jellie roll sold out.

Or do we want to go for the 10 to 12,000, the next size up? And he's like, no, we want to go the next size up, even if it's not sold out. because sometimes we don't hit our goal, like selling out the big one, but we surpass what we would have with the safe bet, the 2 to 4,000. So at 2 to 4,000, we'd only have 4,000 people in the seats. Going for the bigger one, you might have 8, 9,000. Yeah. That's better.

It's not sold out. But so we just have to like, instead of taking the safe bet, sometimes go big. Right. It's okay if we don't get it. We're further ahead than we would have been. Right. And we have a chance of getting it at some time as opposed to playing it safe. So I like that attitude.

There's no such thing as failure. No. It's like you either learn and adapt or like, hey, we nailed the goal. For sure. For sure. But so many people, and I think you've probably seen this, they take the safe bet. Yeah. They don't want, they want to make sure they're going to succeed.

And it's just like, well, that's not the way to grow. Yeah. And I'm sure you've had moments like that and I have, like where you set, ceilings on yourself, but once you find yourself busting through that, it's like, oh, wait. Like, I remember when we were doing the golf world record, not to just harp on that, but like, what we were talking about, I was like, I think we can do 500 holes. Yeah. And we ended up beating 810. 800. And we ran about 100 miles. And it's like 98 or it's tracked, like 95. But I was like, even right there, like I was so driven on this goal. And I was like advertising this is like, we can get over

500 or something and even right there I was set a ceiling on my yeah yeah so it's it's a constant work in progress where you just keep chipping away I think that's human nature because I think there's nobody wants to fail and we've conditioned ourselves to to think that if we don't get the goal that's failing but maybe it's not not at all maybe that's just a mark along the way yeah maybe it's just you know we have to know where we're at and that told tells us where we're at is not a failure to your point, like either we're winning or learning. Yeah. There's,

I hate to be the guy that's throwing out quotes, but Enki Johnson, that old football player, he says, how can I become, oh, he's the man. Yeah. He's powerful.

Yeah, he is. How can I, how can I fall in love with the process without being emotionally attached to the outcome? Yeah. And I just love that thought. Yeah, me too. It's a constant process.

Soul life is. Yeah. It just makes it hard, like, when, when I get injured, when I'm so used to getting in work every day, that's where I struggle. It's like right now, my back is kind of messed up. And, you know, my only measure of success is like, did I get in work today?

Yeah. And so when you can, it's hard to feel like you did anything. This is going to work, though. We're talking through the mental game right now. Well, I did the sauna cold plunge. I did whatever. So I can like trick myself into thinking that that was like positive. I talked to Trude about training.

I guess that's kind of a something positive. But yeah, it's hard like being in the performance realm. Because it's like to feel like you achieved anything, you have to perform at a high level. It is. And it's just like that's hard sometimes. Yeah, especially when you let it. when you let it define you like when you when you get so wrapped up in like the result yeah yeah we just constantly have to like detach ourselves and just kind of be the observer like cool we did it

yeah yeah so your your goals now so you got the hundred coming up what's your goal for that hundred like tell me about the course is it like a lot of climbing or what yeah about 20 i think it's almost 26000 feet in gang over 107 miles it's point to point that's pretty good yeah 26 is legit it's a good one anything over 20, you're doing something. I would agree. I'd agree. And like my whole North Star through this is like eventually getting to hard rock. Like that's the big race I want to do. But yeah, it's point to point. Great race. The Wyoming Range 100. No music, no headphones. You got to carry bear spray. And the coolest part about this race is they give you the buckle at the start line. What? So you got to hold on to the

buckle the whole time. And then if you don't, if you don't finish, you get it back. Which I love. That's pretty sick. I hadn't heard that before. Yeah, it's cool. So I've gone out there and I've actually practiced with an old 100-mile or belt buckle. Yeah, and it's kind of, it's a little annoying. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, it'll be a lot of climbing. You get, you get support at some of these aid stations that I have to take like horse back into. But you can pick up a pacer like mile 42. And it's a really cool, beautiful looking race. Do you have a goal time-wise? The course record, I think is 26 hours, which is really long. It must be a tough race.

I think it's pretty technical. Yeah. I'm set in my mind because, I mean, I'm really familiar with hard rock, but I'm setting my mind to think it's going to be really tough. Yeah, that just tells me there's not a lot of easy miles. Like a lot of times those races have like, you know, gravel road miles. Yeah. And you can, you know, kind of get in a groove.

Yeah. When it's all single track and all technical, you're earning every mile. Right. that sounds like what this is it's probably not going to look a lot like Piscay no no no not too much buffed out stuff but I like honest hundreds like that 100 you know because it's some of these hundreds are turning into almost track meets like we got Western coming up next weekend they'll be running pretty much all that oh man yeah and like and that's not like my style like the fast-paced pavement one's probably not my style like I'm not going to be the fastest guy and I and I kind of like being out there

longer and I'm just a I'm a mountain guy like I don't I don't really want to be on flatlands I want to be out amongst really cool people on the Colorado trails or in Wyoming and just see the mountains and like experience nature and be off the grid yeah I love that feeling yeah I I I just I'm always going to gravitate towards that in a hundred mile distance or definitely definitely um like so have you spent time in the Colorado mountains and stuff like what have you done there so back in COVID, we got a house or family has like a small cabin in Urey, Colorado. Oh, okay. And that's where I first found out about this.

There's 100 there. It's coming up. I'm going next week. Yeah. I'm volunteering. Oh, yeah. I know Jake is in that from NextAid station, I think. Okay.

Yeah, I think he's running that. Okay. Yeah, hard rock? No, no, no, URA. You got the URA 100, which is more climb than the hard rock. He's been doing like tons of climb a day. Oh, that's so fun. And he just did a, uh,

God, what was that 200 that just happened? You had Tahoe. Tahoe? Tahoe. Is that what he did? Yeah, Tahoe. Tahoe, yeah. So his leg should be good. Okay.

Yeah, well, I think that's the week after Hard Rock, if I'm not mistaken. Is it? Okay. Yeah, I think it's... But your race is a good... Anyway, so it's a cool place. Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of climbing. It's the San Juan's.

It's like, in my opinion, the most beautiful mountain range. Oh, so pretty. Yeah, it's... I can't get enough of it. My sister lives up there in Uray. But our house is actually at mile 50, right? When they come into down Oak Street from Camp Bird, it's either, you know, they reverse it every year.

Yeah. And so that's where I found out of it. I was like, what are these lean, beautiful hard work and people doing going up and down this mountain with race bids? I got to find out. Yeah, I know. I found out of that. And so like my dream is, you know,

ultimately getting a race, whether it's eight years down the road and, you know, stopping at mile 50 at our house. Oh, be sick. And just being like with my girls and our, family and yeah it'll it'll happen but i'm just gonna keep doing these things but yeah i've gotten a lot of good climbing i think my biggest week so far is like 11 000 feet but i'm about to ramp it up this starting this week yeah yeah and where do you get your climbing in there i mean i i'll get in the car like i did this on thursday i got in the car i drove two and a half hours to austin on the biggest

hill i can find it's like a quarter mile hill and i'll literally just go back and forward two and half hours. Yeah. God, that's tough, dude. It is, but mental discipline. It is. No, if you can do it there, you can do it anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, because you could say, oh, it'd be so easy on Pisk, it must be nice. Yeah, can I do it? Yeah, do it. Exactly. Yeah, like, because then when you get to the race, you're like, you're going to piss hot now if you do that. Am I? I? I don't know, probably. But no, I think it's, it's good. You're being right. Yeah, but I think when you get in the mountains, if you've done that kind of training, that monotonous, boring style of training. Like every time I found when I get in a race, I'm like, this is awesome.

It's so much easier to detach from how hard it is and just look up and be like, imagine that hill you used to climb for two and a half hours. It was the same view. I know. This is way better than that. Way easier. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, that my, I don't know if James told you, but my brother has a race over on Piscuit,

as many summits as you can do in 12 hours. Oh, really? Yeah. What's the record? I think 19. 19, so 19 summits. 19,000 feet. And it would be, so three miles per trip.

So it would be 40 and then 20. So, yeah, 67. Wow, that's impressive. Have you done it? Yeah, I mean, me and Courtney did 15. We just wanted to get 50 miles in. So we did like a different route and like a couple different routes, but we did we did 50 miles on 15 summits.

That's a good day. But any day over 10,000, yeah. That's crazy. I feel like it's a good day. I'm sitting here talking about getting that in a week and you've got out of the day. So I need to get those numbers up. But once you have been around this sport, there's people who, it's crazy how much work they put in. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I think it's like, I think Jake who's doing that, you're a, I think this week he might be doing 30,000 feet of game. Wow. And he's, is he here? Is he in Colorado? No, no, he's in Utah. Okay. Sorry. But so how it generally, like the normal rule of thumbs for getting ready for hundreds is 100 miles a week.

And then if you can get, generally people want to get like 15, maybe 20,000 feet of gain. Yeah. And what everybody's going by now is just time on your feet. So it's just those hours. Like are you training for 20 hours a week? Some people can get, well, like if they're not, don't have. have a job they're getting up over 30 to 40 hours a week of training. Wow. And for people like us that had a family and in a career, that's tough to compete with. Oh yeah. I never had anything close to that.

So I'm trying to compete with these people with doing a fraction of the work so my body's not ready. Yeah. But it's, you know, and that's the biggest thing because now Ultra is kind of taken into where it's more professionalized. For those people at the very top, it's really hard for guys with careers to be, it's almost like two different worlds because you could never have 40 hours a week to train. Right. You know, and Courtney, I know she'll go out, put some pizza in her backpack, go out for like eight hours a day.

She's the best. And she's awesome. She's the best because she's got crazy talent and she's the best because she'll sacrifice, but she's also the best because she has that time to do that. but if you're not if you don't have the motivation time doesn't mean anything so she's also motivated yeah because a lot of people have time and they don't train but like it's hard once you get to that level where you want to be like I want to go to the next maybe if you have this elite talent yeah okay the talent's only one part you need the time also and that's that's where I was struggled

yeah it is and like that's where I get back to being delusional call it delusional but like my time grinding through work or prospecting out on the road or like sitting in the hallway with a baby at two in the morning doing this. Mental strength, baby. That's mental strength. I'm building some time. That's time on the feet too. It is.

So at least I can tell myself that. And so if I can just be a little delusional and like trick myself into thinking that, like, it'll probably, I'll probably apply myself way better on race day than the guy who didn't do it and only got like 10 to 15 hours a week. What I think about too is there's people. who get are going to get more training in the you probably more talented than you probably have more time than you or more or whatever but do they want it more than you and as we talked about the mental aspect of these races is probably more important than the physical so yeah they

might out physical you yeah but you'll out mental them and that is the biggest part of ultra it's not like you're running 100 meters you got to do it in you know 9.7 seconds right it's like you got time to dig deep and to be tougher than your competitors. Exactly. And when you can call back to those nights where you didn't get any sleep and you still got in the work, that gives you an edge. 100%. And it's like we talk about that the mental is, you know, the key, okay, well then I guess

and you can't measure who's mentally tougher. Right. But let's see. Right. That's what I want to get into like longer distances after this. I'd love to do it. Actually, I noticed this. I think, is this number 200?

It's a podcast number 200? I don't know. Is it? I think it was. Maybe. So I was like, this is not a coincidence. Okay. There's a purpose here.

I need to sign up for a 200 mile. There you go. So maybe we'll, I'll let you tell me which one I need to sign up. Oh, 200s, yeah. Two hundreds are, I love it because everybody does obviously do 100 first. Yeah. Hunters are hard. It's long, long day.

A lot of climbing like the race you're doing. But it's only one night. So much easier. It's again, that's like two different races now. Because when you get into the multi-night, that's where people, we haven't figured out. You know, if you're fast enough, you can get through them with no sleep. Like Rachel at Kokadona, I think she slept like 17 minutes. But you can, you can, if you're fast and you're going to finish around two days, a little over two days, you can get through two nights with no sleep.

you can't do three nights. I've tried that. Or I can't do it. But that single night 100 or multi-night 200, completely different races. Yeah. And that's what's fun about it, is figuring out how to,

what does your body do with no sleep for two nights? Yeah. And I feel it's a greater test of like mental fortitude, right? I mean, that's what I'm excited about, because I will do one. I just, I got to figure out which one I'm going to do. How old are you? 32.

Oh, you're young. Yeah, good. Thank you for that. So 32, I was, that was when I ran my first marathon. No kidding. Yeah, I hadn't even run a marathon, but the time I was 32. So yeah, you got, you know, now I've been doing it for a long time. Wow. Yeah, so you got, you got decades, dude.

Right. And then I look at like some of these really younger guys that are just, like, throwing down sick times. Oh. Everyone's just getting faster. There's a Brody Chisholm. Do you know, he's like doing these multi-day things? I think he's 18. Oh, I've seen.

this guy. And he got second. He just got second at that one we were just talking about, I think, Tahoe. Right. And yeah, he's just a stud. But his whole family, so we talk about being the example. His whole family does this. His mom is a beast. I think probably his dad is, his brothers, I don't know if they're sisters. But anyway, that's been the standard. This is what we do. And so it doesn't matter how hard it is. It doesn't matter that it's for everybody else. It's crazy. It's like, no, this is what we do. And your body will do it if you train. Right.

So I love that part of it. But he's young. One thing, I just remembered this because I was talking or thinking about like the social media stuff, but Colt's molders. Do you know who that is? Oh, yeah. Everett. I was just willing two days ago.

Were you? That's who we were running on the track with. Oh, okay. Yeah. Because I saw he made a comment or something about cats out of the bag. Yeah. I love him. I don't know him at all, obviously, other than just reading his post.

Yeah. But I love his demeanor and like his character. It's probably not characters who he is. But I just love his what he offers the world. Yeah. And he's a lot like Marco, who you just had here. Is he? Yeah.

I mean, we were on a run. I was like, I was like asking him about his college career. And he was, he said, I walked so Marco could run. It never was kind of a loud mouth. And he just called his shot. And that's a beautiful thing. That's why it's infectious. It's contagious to be around someone.

It is. Outwardly talking about their goals, like you and I are doing, like, it's fun to be ambitious and go for these things. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes people will turn on them. Like the sport they give the most to will turn on them for being too cocky or whatever. But Everett is just a great dude. And he went to about, he dialed it back about 40% to hang with me and my ultra leg.

We had fun. Yeah. He's a great guy. He's so honest, like when he did that, the 100 in Florida, Florida Keys. I think, is how miserable he was. Because everybody else, when they're posting something, it's never going to be how, it's always going to be how badass they are. Exactly.

Or crushing it or whatever. But he was just so honest. Yep. How much pain he was in. He had a better one before that where it actually, now he's like working with SIS, the gel company. Oh, okay. He got into this 100-mileer and I was chatting with him back and forth before he did it.

And he was so prepared, ready to go. I think he had like nine hours into it and looked down to one of his gels. He had been taking caffeinated gels the whole time for nine hours. Oh God. And he fell apart and didn't finish it. Yeah. But even then he was like super honest with it. He was like, I failed.

Yeah. But like that's where you get back to again. Like you're not so attached to like the result. Like you're just learning. Yeah. Because there's no failure. You're just learning. How do you know him?

Through social media and then like a friend of a friend training with him. and we just, we just connect really well. Yeah. Like just kind of same, same mentality kind of thoughts with stuff. So yeah, we chat a lot. Oh, yeah, he's, yeah, he's one of my favorites on social media. And like, he has some hot takes.

I think, what, did he have one on high rocks or something? He did. And guess what? I'm with him. I'm kind of with him. I can't remember what it was, but I know he's getting kind of criticized for it. He was. And like, you know, he's kind of talking smack. about high rocks and it just kind of what if all the runners they're really really good runners like

collegiate runners that trained if they just took over they would take over the sport yeah wanted to probably and i actually agree with that like if you look at the transformation of high rocks like they've taken 90 pounds off the sleds um and i'm high rocks is fun i love it it's great i've got to be careful what i say with the mic in front of me like getting all i got a hold of that but uh i you know i kind of agree with them like if if runners jumped into it like they would not dominate the sport because Ben Canute is an Ironman athlete. And he just jumped into High Rocks, Arizona. And he did like a week or two of training. I talked to him about this. And he had the fastest run splits of anyone, including the pros. And he just took nine minutes

to throw a ball ball ball at a target. And it landed him like a 103 time. Wow. And so it's like, if he spent four to six weeks just letting him to throw a wall ball ball, he'd take it over. It's, I get that and that's probably true. But then I also think about people said like the Olympians coming into Ultra, they dominate. And it hasn't really happened. Yeah. So because we've had, I think Molly Sedell, she's, she won, I believe it's her. She won a bronze in the marathon.

And then she got fourth that like it was Havelina maybe. But so it wasn't just like, oh, you're an Olympic athlete. you're going to win every race. You know what I mean? So she got beat by three ultra girls. Yeah. And it's just like, so yeah, I mean, fourth is amazing. I think she qualified for Western States with that,

which is an incredible first performance. But it's not like what everybody's saying. Like once the Olympians come in, it's over. Yeah. It's not that quickly transferred. No, no. It's still, it's, you know, there's a process to it. 100%.

Yeah. 100%. So I don't disagree that cardio and an elite runner would do, I haven't done her high rocks, so I don't know. But it might, there still might be like the top of the high rocks field might still compete with that runner. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like who was the guy who won?

You said the 54 minutes. Bill Scott. Yeah, I bet that's still a good performance. Oh, 100. Yeah, it is. It is. They're all great athletes. I'm not throwing shade on high rocks.

But I think whatever it was getting out is, you know, they all jump into it. Like, it might not be as impressive of a thing anymore because they would just take it over. but yeah i i i love cover too many feathers no no no i mean hey we like the hot takes i mean we just had marco on here he had a lot of hot takes on he's the man i've chatted with him a little back and have you on instagram yeah yeah he's i mean he's a good kid he now he works his ass off dude yeah so people can say whatever but he was here he stayed here the whole week and he was you know it was daily doubles every day um and also like so went over to his track for his track work out, he's, he's suffering.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. And by himself. So it's like, you can criticize and you don't like how he talks or he cusses or he's too confident or he got beat at the NCAAs. Fine. Say all that shit. But he works his ass off and he's got a lot of talent. Yeah. And I think he's going to go a lot, he's going to go places. So, yeah, I love it. Agreed. I think he's in, he's so good for the sport. Like he's so good for running. It's like if everyone was just boring and quiet and sat around drinking coffee and talked about fun workouts. Like it wouldn't be that attractive, right? Like you need someone like that and you need a little disruptor and like you think any of those hate comments or anything people are saying is bothering Marco? You're

sorely mistaken. Yeah. It doesn't bother him at all. And I heard a like Truitt's coach is Rory Linklatter. He's Olympian from Canada. But I heard him on a podcast talking about how like if he talked like that after a race, he would have gotten trouble from his coach really. whatever. And then he was kind of like, I didn't know which way he was going to go with it, but he ended up saying, I like it, though. You know, it's like, it does at the sport needs, you need characters. 100%. Yeah, so I love it. And what do you expect someone to do, like, when they're riled up, like in the middle of a train or in the middle of a race or just after, like, people are going to be fired up. Yeah, we want you to care. You want energy. Yeah,

we want you to care. Yeah, exactly. That's healthy for the sport. Yeah, I love it. Well, I love that You're getting ready for that 100. That's going to be sick. So is that, that's the next big race coming up? Yeah, that's a big one. But you're doing,

you said you're doing the Iron Man or half Iron Man. Yeah, in Oregon. That's three weeks before in July. Yeah. And then I'll do full Iron Man, California. I'm going to try and break nine hours in that.

Ooh. So, and that would get a Kona slot. So is that what it takes for Kona? I think so. We'll see. Everyone's getting faster and faster every day. Yeah.

hours is a, anything finishing in Iron Man, it's a great time, but just like getting under nine hours to be crazy. Yeah. Is that considered elite almost? Or what is elite? I would, I would consider like 930 or under 9 hours as elite. Let's say that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Because I thought, I thought under 10 was pretty good. Yeah, that's good for the working man. Yeah, okay. I'll say that. Yeah. And then what are the winners getting under? Are they under seven even? Um, I don't know about under seven, Blumenfeld and them did, uh, what, or I think this one, there was one last week and it was like 720. Okay. I think that's the, I think that's the big nine. Okay, seven, that's fast. Yeah. Oh, wicked fast. Those are, those are some of the best endurance athletes in the world. I mean,

I think Christian Blumentfeld is. Yeah, I mean, his, he ran like a 106 half. Yeah. Crazy. At the end, after, after 56 on the bike and a mile would ever swim. Yeah, you want to talk about guys putting 30, 40 hour weeks, like consistently, consistently doing that every single week. And he's big. And that's almost close to the Olympic standard for the half. I think you need 103. Yeah. But for his size and then after those other, like, what could you do fresh? I know. And he's, he's great for the sport too. You get some clips of him where it's like his arrowbars are jiggling or like he's throwing up on the bike and he's just still pounding out. Sending it, dude. So they're such impressive of athletes. I think he did 720 in Texas. I think that's what it was a hot, humid day.

And what that, to me, I just love that, of course he's Uber talented. Yeah. But like, wants it that bad to suffer that much to puke and just send it. And it was like, the way he's running, he's just sprinting it. You know how bad does that hurt? And still doesn't matter. Yeah. You could see like, actually, that's where I'd sign up from our first triathlon. I watched him finish in the Olympics. And he came across the finish line. It was like, yeah, this Norwegian. and one and he just starts yacking all over the finish line. They bring out a wheelchair and take him off. Like, this is the dude who just won the Olympic Triathlon. He's just sold his soul. That is sick. Yeah, yeah, he's impressive. That's wanting it right there. Exactly.

How does that not, that's, I mean, that's almost at all that it inspires me. I guess somebody who's super strong in faith, like if I watch that Jovey Martin preach, that inspires me. But other than that it's like this like selling their physical yeah yeah physical exactly so so crazy hey did you have questions over there yeah peanut gallery what what would you what was your breakfast today by the way o ph we walked me through that we had uh well james got a really colorful bowl of fruit yeah that was really that makes sense strawberry he said i'm gonna treat myself after the hundred yeah that makes sense he got We got strawberries, bananas, and a bunch of whipped cream. Did it match his dress?

Yeah. And my butt plug. Oh, good. Okay. And then I got four over easy eggs. And then, what was it, like six flapjacks? Yeah, no bacon. No bacon.

Ooh. I saved room for the flapjacks. Dude, the bacon. It did look good. In hindsight, I think it was a regret of mine next time. It's how good. It's how good. Well, how was it?

It was 10 out of three. 10 to be like in trackdown USA yeah seeing all the pre posters everywhere um i'm such a fan that was the perfect spot it was great food yeah we we like going there for sure yeah what do you got all right well if you watch the podcast you know what this first question is going to be no fuck mary kill golf being jacked or being fast oh wow those are three tough ones Honestly, kill golf. That's an easy one. Jacked or fast.

Right now, since I'm like trying to lose weight and I'm throwing away all vanity, I'm going to say being jacked, I'm going to call it weekend. I'm going to call it the weekend, Jack, and I'll marry running fast. Okay. I like it.

Yeah. So running fast can get you a long way. Yeah. Jack can only get you so far. Right, exactly. enemy comes, you may not be able to out muscle them, but you got to run them. Yeah. And, you know, we like to get jacked. It's mostly aesthetics. You know, it's just like how we look. We're running fast. That's useful. Yeah, exactly. I was joking with someone. I was like, I think we've just come across

this world of guys just getting more jacked and more jacked to impress other guys. Yeah, basically. Yeah, the girls, I think apparently they like dad bods. So I don't know what we're doing. Let's just keep running. Let's just keep no more weight. It starts right. What else you got? We talked a little bit about this, but I just, I want to dive more into it. But how does faith drive performance and specifically, you know, performance anxiety or pressure like we were talking about? That's a great question. And like I'm, I was raised in a great house, very faithful home.

But like I really didn't start diving deep in my faith until like a couple years ago with like a good small group. And so I have really found my relationship with God. It's not like a works-based militant, do this, do that, but like an actual relationship with God in the past couple years. And I think it's removed this. It's alleviated so much pressure and this huge gorilla off my back to know that like you, me, James, we're all children of God. Like we're all one body.

And we were all created. And however you view the creator, that's up to you. but we are all created. Mother Nature, the mountains and stuff we love, they're all by a creator, and you're not here to please humans. You're not here to, you're really here to serve him, not them.

And so I've been telling myself that a lot lately. Like I was telling you my sweet little acronym in the car, but just you're here to serve a creator. And when you kind of give up that burden of having to serve others, it just makes things a lot, I don't want to say easier, but you don't feel this immense amount of pressure to make everyone else around you happy.

You're just there to serve God and serve other people, do something for other people, inspire other people, not, you know, I know I'm wearing no shirt on Instagram running around, but I'm really trying to inspire people to like, you know, push themselves,

push their limits, stack days despite circumstances, and that's what I'm here to do. And the more I serve and have like a servant leadership through that, the less pressure I feel on myself to perform. And so just being super detached from the results that Kyle has and just really enjoying the process and being in the moment,

being present mile by mile or like minute by minute just in the moment, like with you here is enough for me. And yeah, it's kind of like an acts of service. What I'm here to do, kind of finding my purpose now is just here to serve others. and not so much make or serve God by helping others not so much catering to their opinions because if you're more concerned with their opinions and other people's opinions then that's a problem yeah more concerned with them versus versus your creator that's a problem it's hard I mean we're conditioned to care about what other people think and we're conditioned like even like

you know you're saying you want to break nine some would say well that's like works You know what I mean? You should, because you could say, well, you just said that it doesn't matter. Like if you just give your, but I don't, to your point, or not to your point, but to a point, it's like, I think you can do both. I think you can have goals for yourself and still not be ruined if you don't get them and still be like that example. Right. Okay. Yeah.

It's okay. This is where I'm at now. Yeah. It's fine. And so, and even running with no shirt on, I can see where people say, well, well, that's performative. But I could also twist that and say that, well, no, that's having more of an impact because more people pay attention now.

So they're going to hear your message. Yeah. You know, so that's a shiny object. Like, hey, look at me over here. See me doing this? Okay, now listen. There you go. So I don't think that it's, yeah, you could get wrapped up just as superficial and say,

that's, you don't need to do that. But you can say, well, am I more effective because I'm doing this? 100%. Yeah. That's spot on. Like I think we look at like the way Jesus walked this earth. He planted seeds and he spoke in parables. He didn't, you know, wasn't sitting or convicting people.

Like he spoke in parables. He did it in different ways. And like I think I think this fitness stuff and kind of showing my lifestyle is my way of doing this. I mean, I think it was, I remember an old boss I worked with just said, hey, you really shouldn't post all that stuff on Instagram or, you know, start a YouTube channel, all that stuff. I was like, that's a problem. That's someone trying to like settle me down. But this is really my vehicle to like showing people that it can be done and and serving others and showing people like it's it.

You're right. Like I think you've said it before. Attention is currency. Like getting people involved and invested in kind of your journey. And then however you can plant seeds in in the midst of that is fine. But it encourages them and it can it can change your lives. Like you've probably changed. I can't.

It'd be hard to count how many lives you've changed. just having this podcast or showing your journey. Like even, I'll take a good example. My wife, I told her, like, I was coming to talk with you, and she was watching Keep Hammering in the garage, your Coca-Dona breakdown, and she was like, you need to watch this. This is exactly what you're in.

And so, like, Tech Club, my wife doesn't really care about ultra-marathons, but, like, that's someone completely, like, not a, I mean, just not even in your avenue. You're still impacting her. Yeah. And the way you. you kind of like let your guard down and and spoken that one man that was that was super impactful and I'm so happy you do that kind of stuff I wasn't happy I did it but I'm glad some of you was

no it was just it was one of those where you struggle and you you know whatever just trying to be honest it's like I try to be honest I don't know people say vulnerable but I'm just trying to be honest because I put on an act my whole entire life yeah nothing affects me whatever I don't care what you think. It's all lies. We care about all that, right? Yeah. So I'm just trying to be more authentic. I mean, I don't even want to try to be authentic. We should be authentic. Yeah. People say, oh, you know, well, you never, you're always the same. It's just like, well, that takes an effort because it's like I wasn't. I was always, always like never want to let anybody in. So on that one, I blame it on the concussion, but it's really just,

It's how we should be. If we're struggling, it's okay to say you're struggling. Yeah. You know, because how else are you gonna get help? Otherwise, you're just dealing with it all on your own. And that's, we know that's not the way to do it. Whether we need, you know, faith or Jesus and something to help us through tough times or, you know, another human.

And it's just like, we're here for each other. And it's like, I wanna help people if they are in need. And I'd like somebody to help me if I'm in need. So I'm trying to be more, Yeah, I didn't want to cry and be, you know, talk, be a pussy about quitting or getting knocked out of Cocoaona. But that was real. Yeah. And that was real.

Yeah. And think about the person we just talked about Everett. Like, you, his story resonated with you so much because he was real. Yeah. He was honest. And we forget, like, how much, like, just human touch and honesty and, like, care serves us way more than look at me. Everything's perfect. And you put on this facade.

And, like, that actually depresses everyone. Yeah. And I've been leaning into this more is starting my day in scripture, obviously, in prayer and building that relationship with God. And then setting my mind and my discernment to where that inner voice in my head that's telling me to like reach out to that buddy that I haven't talked to in a while or go do this or, you know, maybe choose the path that like doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Listening to that inner voice and acting on it because calling that buddy, like I've had a few phone calls recently with buddies have been struggling.

like hard, hard times. And family members have been struggling that, like, I wouldn't regularly call. And now that I'm calling them, I'm just like human touch and just being in a listening year and just being honest and vulnerable and letting that guard down

is so much more important than like this hustle culture, look at me syndrome that we got going on. And I'm just leaning in that a lot more lately. Yeah. I think that's powerful. And I think like, if I think about people struggling

that I've talked to, It's always like, especially these guys were always at first where I was like, no, I'm good. I'm good, dude. So we're all good. And just like reassuring that, okay. I mean, but if anything comes up, I'm right here. And sometimes it takes like a few different like attempts to get in. And then finally they're just like, yeah, I mean, shit, dude, hasn't been that good.

but it takes a little bit because our first reaction is like, oh, you don't want to hear about this shit. Or we're thinking, they don't want to hear about this. People got their own stuff to go through. But if somebody actually cares and loves you or cares about you, they want to hear about it. You know, we don't want to be vulnerable. We don't want to be the weak person because we don't want the guy,

our buddy to go and say, yeah, God, Cam is shit. he's struggling. Right. We get worried about that, but I think we need to let that go. Mm-hmm. Because we see what that results in and what that results in is, what is it, you know, so many people, so many men killing themselves because they don't feel like they can talk about it because they've internalized everything.

And I don't want that. So I'm like just trying to be more, if I'm struggling, I just want to say I'm struggling. If I think somebody else could use a little love, I'm just gonna be that person. There you go. But it's hard. Yeah. It's freaking hard because it's not how we're raised.

It's not how the world raises us. Yeah. And the devil will use shame and fear and put it in you to make you think like you're not enough or who are you? You're not entitled to reach out to him. Look at all the flaws you have. But like we're given a whole thing

a heart and a mind of love and so and of love and power and we need to use that and that that touch and that just relationship like we're longing for those human relationships don't put on this this front of like I'm tough nothing bothers me like you're saying yeah a lot more men in particular need to hear that because I hate hearing some of the stories and the situations my buddies and friends are going through and I just I think we need to be more honest yeah be more like Everett I love it. I mean, real is always is always more attractive

than fake for sure. Did you have any others? I think one of the first things that kind of drew me to you was specifically when you were doing that world record challenge. Obviously, long day, you're in a lot of pain, but you were always annoyingly positive. And for me, that stuck out because when I'm hurting and I'm in pain, the last thing I want to be is positive.

I want to feel bad for myself. I want to be angry. I want to lash out at people trying to help me. Where does that come from? Great question. That event in particular was like kind of a crazy spiritual high more so than others. Because the way we structured the golf event was way, I hope you're doing something for greater than me, for those who can't.

Like we actually went into that with, yeah, we're going to achieve this Guinness world record, but we're going to live stream it. and we're going to do it to raise money for a really important camp that's dear to my heart. So there's a camp down in Texas called Camporans Zoo. And what they do is they're down in Rockport and they take kids with cancer, with missing limbs, whatever it may be, and they give them kind of the outdoor experience that they're robbed of in the hospital or with their limiting conditions. And they've got medical staff on site.

They have a zip line. They can go birding, kayaking, fishing, all this really, really cool stuff that they don't get. And in fact, if they have a sibling, they will, they'll pay, they'll have the sibling come out with them. But, you know, if they have cancer, they'll get their treatment throughout the day, but just be able to be outside and do all this. So instead of just making this look at me, Guinness World Record, it was more so like, how much money can be raised for Camp Rains Zoo to get kids out at camp? So the way we structured it was, people could make donations on like dollar per whole amounts. And so you could do $1 per hole, $810 and live stream it. And some people were

making bets for birdies. And I was like, I got an hour into this and just actually feeling like you're doing something that's like not even about you. Yeah. Like it's really like, it's cool that I'm out there doing it. But I'm just like this little vehicle for just like such a larger impact and such a great cause. It was hard for me to not smile.

Like there was because I had the logo in my hat. A lot of people from the camper out there. Like it was so easy to just, you know, even though it was miserably hot and just like a brutal day. and I was just like beat to a pulp like my hands were disgusting. We raised over $100,000 in a day. That's incredible. And like I remember there's a real, if you go to my Instagram, there's a real where like I'm running and I'm like a couple hours in the event.

And I'm talking to Jack or cameraman, it's just like a raw video of him. And I'm like, how's the live stream doing? He's like, great. And I was like, I were raising money? And he's like, yeah. He's like, if I told you, I can't even tell you how much. I was like, yeah, don't tell me. I'll cry.

That's awesome. But to go back to it, like, just finding that, I think there's a lot of power and just finding a purpose that's, like, so much greater than Kyle. And that's not lip service. Like, I actually mean it. And I actually meant it that day. And so it was just, like, it was fun to know that it wasn't about me. And, like, it alleviated that pressure of, like, having to perform.

And I was just out there achieving a world record in the process. But, like, I think we sent. 50 kids to camp. Oh, man. Just by doing that. And so, yeah, it was a really cool day. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, $100,000 for kids that needed.

That's impressive. Definitely more impressive than the world record. 100%. The world record means nothing. Someone's going to go beat it one day and I'll be like, okay. Yeah. But we got a really cool thing with that and changed lives. And so.

Wow. That's amazing. Good, good job on that. But I mean, I don't know, James. I thought, I don't know if it was because of Kyle, but I thought your updates from your race were pretty positive. I thought you had a great attitude. So. Yeah, that's probably just because I was delusional. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know why. I was, I felt like pretty sorry for myself at one point. And then, I don't know. I started to like the pain. I don't know if that was maybe the threshold of like past the 50K and finding out who I am when I want to quit. Yeah. Because I did after a 50K. I hurt bad enough that I could have walked away and been sore. But yeah, I don't know.

It was a weird thing. And it did definitely make me think in that moment about how positive you are and where that comes from. So just wanted to ask. You seem like you're positive. I saw that one clip where you're like, you know what? I asked for this. Yeah. I wanted this.

See, that, like switching the. the narrative up that way. Yeah. That's a big deal. Yeah, I don't know. You're just five good steps, bro. Five good steps. I thought about that.

I did. I thought about that. I got to a point where I did need five more steps, but I almost flipped it to be a challenge. I did want to see how bad I could make it hurt. And it worked for whatever reason. It was like, okay, it hurts. I was like, okay, this hurts, but I definitely can make it hurt worse. Yeah.

That's the tennis guy coming out in your high school. That's definitely from tennis. match into a four-hour match. That is your volleyball. You guys took a spike right in the face. I know this butt plug hurts, but I can get through it. And 100K is an ultra. We're good on that right.

We're going to save that for the next shit talkers. If he did it, it's up for debate. Yeah, that's the rule. That's awesome. We're going to knock off all these ultras. You don't have to, pretty soon enough to run a thousand miles for a test at an ultra. The Colorado train.

Go, we'll give it to you. Yeah, okay. That was 500 continuous. We'll do that. That's great. Oh, you know what I was going to say? You probably could have saved a lot of money a dollar per birdie. How many birdies did you get?

66. 66? Yeah. Whoa, you're pretty good then. I mean, yeah, I put a lot of time in a golf. 66 is out of 810. I was thinking it's going to be like, once you got kind of fatigued, I'm like, there's no way you got a birdie. Well, yeah.

And it's misleading. because I used one club the whole time. Yeah. So I'd have these really good holes. I actually almost got a few hole in ones. Like they skate by the hole. Did you get an eagle? No, no.

But no, no, no eagles. But I lipped out on a couple. People had bets for a hole in ones. And I just couldn't do it. And we would have raised so much more money. I can't think about it. But there was some holes where I'd go up to like a pup from me to you. Yeah.

And I'd use that wedge. And I'd like get too much grass. Yeah. Make like a five. It take me five pussing, you know, because I'd, then it passed. I'm like, my dad would be like, he came out there a few times, and he just feel like, oh, man, struggling. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like 80 miles into this. Yeah, really.

Shut up, pops. Yeah. And I'm trying to get this thing. I'm almost thinking he should have done that with the handle. Yeah, a little happy go more. Yeah. Yeah. Because that wedge would be tough to put with.

It was miserable. Unless you turn it around, maybe. Yeah, I'd like belly it. Like, I'd kind of like, levitated a little bit off the ground and like just kind of get the forward roll going but man there's like some clips of the live stream my buddies my buddies would pop in and commentate yeah and that was really funny actually i bet i re-watching all that but they're like i think this is six i think this is his seventh butt all right he's in an eight and he hit the green in one seven yeah yeah that's not how you want to do it usually no that's good that's good what do you got james

that's it that's what you had cool yeah well dude this this has been And I'm so glad we did it because it's like James said something like, I don't know what, podcast 11. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know shit about this guy. So he goes, oh, it's all right. I'll come up with some good questions. And then I did some. I knew I'd seen a few things.

Yeah. But I'm so glad we had this because sometimes these are the ones. These are the most impactful conversations is the ones you didn't anticipate or, you know, didn't predict. and it's just kind of, I just, I loved what we talked about. I loved learning more about you and what you're about. And I think people, I don't know if they'll gain anything from it, but they'll be entertained hopefully.

Yeah, yeah. So I thank you. And I'm super grateful that you've made time. I'm happy you did OPA and Piscuit and that you did the, got the full experience. No, it's been fun. I appreciate it. This is all kind of surreal sitting next to you. And I really, man, I just admire so much about you.

So much. Thank you. And yeah, I hope this helps someone listening to it. But just more importantly, like even watching what you've done in your career and the seeds you planted is just so inspiring. It inspires me to share more about my life and hit record on the camera, chase those events and raise a great family. Like you've done that. You can be more proud of that than any race result or anything up on these walls, man. You raise a great family. I'm proud of them. It might have been in spite of me, but I'm proud of them. Yeah, but no, thank you. Yeah. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Keep hammering, guys. This episode is brought to you by Mountain Ops, a brand I've trusted for years to fuel my training, power me through the backcountry, and help me recover strong so I can do it all again the next day. Whether I'm deep in the mountains on a hunt or pushing hard during a workout, Mountain Ops has been a constant part of my routine. I worked closely with the team of Mountain Ops to create a full line of products that match the way I train and live every day. We call it the Keep Hammering Line and it's built to help you show up strong physically and mentally no matter what your goals are.

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