Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 208 - Field Notes: Tips to Prepare You for Your Hunting Season

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

We’ve pulled clips from 12 of our most viewed guests' conversations about hunting to bring you their experiences and advice on how to be more successful while hunting big game. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Casey Anderson: Being in Tune with Nature 00:06:03 – Casey Brooks: Calling Elk in the Right Way 00:13:09 – Remi Warren: Wind & Stalking Animals 00:18:25 – Dan Staton: Adapting to Hard Situations in Hunting 00:20:49 – Brian Barney: Don’t Be Susceptible to Quitting 00:30:08 – Casey Anderson: Predator Tactics to Use in Hunting 00:37:22 – John & Jenn Rivet: What Ruins Bear Hunts 00:40:18 – Kevin Akers: Taking Chances and Calling in Elk 00:47:37 – John Barklow: Preparation & Planning Hunts 01:01:09 – Remi Warren: Paying Attention While Hunting 01:11:56 – Levi Morgan: Judging Shot Yardage 01:14:24 – Greg Poole: Bow & Arrow Energy 01:25:33 – Craig Francis: Presenting Hunting in a Positive Manner 01:28:30 – Lorenzo Sartini: Grip-N-Grins & Respecting the Story 01:32:35 – Casey Brooks: Be Respectful to Other Hunters Thank you to our sponsors: Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription ALP: https://alppouch.com/ use code CAM for 10% off your first order Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics

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I mean, I've learned so much by listening to them. And magpies are just part of the equation. And if you are out there all the time and listening, the animals are telling you stuff. They're telling each other stuff all the time. We have, there was a point in human evolution or whatever you believe in, that we were really in tune with it

because we had to be to survive. Yeah. We listened and you could hear it. And those who spent a lot of time out there, that language, you know, it's like if you and I went to China right now, we would walk around, we'd be able to communicate at all. But if you're there and immersing and listening long enough,

you start to learn the language. And there's no different when you're in the wild. And magpies and other animals, but magpies are great in the Northwest because they are always watching and they're always saying things. They're saying very specific things. I didn't know that. Oh, all the time.

Like if I hear a magpie, I'll, like, I know if they're looking at a cat. I know if it's looking at an owl. Okay. And it's just, it's a cadence and the thing. And it's, and it's what's so cool now is that, you know, with AI and stuff like that, they can prove it. You know, because there's little discrepancies and the sounds that they're making. Oh, it breaks it down. But they're literally saying, there's a wolf.

There's a wolf. There's a wolf. And if you learn that language, man, it's a, it's like a cheat code. Yeah. You know? And so magpie is when, especially when I'm looking for mountaines with things like that and bear. bears and you know I might be falling tracks and tracks run out and I'm standing there and I just say if you sit down long enough and listen there's an animal it's telling you words

that hmm and it's it's it's a cheat code are they uh are they normally like on a kill and making those calls for about the lion or the wolves that they see or is it just random do you think because you're you're generally you're tracking them hoping they kill something right so you can get photos on video yeah right and is that generally when you hear the magpies is when they're on a kill. Sometimes on a kill. So the kill sounds very different. If they're looking at a cat, it's a very different call than if they're on a kill eating.

Oh, I see. But I know them both pretty well. Okay. Yeah. And yeah. And so again, it's just, there's a story being told all the time. And if you can start to tune into it, it makes you magic, man. It really does.

But it's one of those things you talk to the Native Americans or some of these old trappers who just really depended on that. They knew all this stuff. And they knew it so much more deep than that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a, you know, where I hunt down there on the San Carlos. I remember one of the Native Americans down there told me that, I don't know. I mean, you kind of make assumptions and you make, I don't know, these things just work out.

And all of a sudden, it's your verifying thoughts that you might have had. But he was hunting this bull. And he said something about that he was thinking he's thirsty. So he should go to water because he's thinking if he's thirsty, the bull's probably thirsty. So they both went to water at the same time. But just point is, it's just being that in tune with that animal, the conditions, how he was feeling, and also not, just not making it individuals, like, just thinking, well, I wonder how this is affecting the animal I'm after, you know?

And it was right, he was right. But that's just that level of you say being in tune and listening and just being aware. It's just time. Like you said, it's reps, right? Yeah. I need to see you're out there. And I think we're all, we all have the ability to do it. It's a matter if we're willing to listen to it.

If we're a matter, when we're out in wild, we put our phones down for a bit and just sit there and listen and watch. So you've killed 12 bowls over 400, which seems, I mean, I went most of my life without ever seeing a 400 inch bowl. For sure. I mean, still, even seeing one. And I was, I talked to somebody at, yeah, I mean, that had been hunting San Carlos at the rifle for a number of years. And this year they killed like a 437,

but had never till then. So it was just like even at the best places with a rifle, just killing a 400 is not easy. And for you to do it with a bow 12 times, what is, I mean, obviously the area, but and I guess passing up, you know, giant bulls, because we said you pass up a 400 to kill a 450 some. So what is your superpower for killing big bulls?

I mean, how can you kill 12, 400? Well, this is where you and I, we might differ a little bit. Okay. I need to be a little more like you, and you need to be a little more like me in our style. So my out-call is my lethal weapon. Okay. And I believe every bull can be called in.

Oh, okay. That's what I believe. Every bull, but maybe not. sometime in the season every bull can be called in now giant bulls I like cutting them early okay so early September from about the seventh

to the about the fifth to the 11th or 12th they're very vulnerable that's a good time they're just starting to come in and a few calcalls and that bowl's going to come check you out once they get herded up it's a little more difficult

and I've shot lots of bulls out of 100 150 elk you know and you got to let all these bulls you know, filtered through till you get the one. Yeah. It's pretty tough. Yeah.

When you got a hundred sets of eyes laying there. Oh, yeah. And you slide into 30 yards of the closest cow and you're screaming at that bull. And, you know, he's bedded and finally gets pissed off enough that here he comes, you know, I mean, it can happen.

But more often than not, the wind swirls and one cow bus, yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah, every bull could be called.

So you're saying like before they're cowed up, when they're on their own, when they're kind of cruising around, It's a good time. Getting everything figured out about what bulls wear, what cows where, just the area. And they're starting to feel the rut. That's the time. I'll just tell you this.

And it was taught to me by Bill Lancaster was a big, Lancaster was a big houndsman. Around, you know, the third of September, the 4th, 5th, you'll be hunting in an area. And you'll notice these ridges. You'll start seeing lone bull tracks walking on these ridges. You're out here in Oregon anywhere. You'll notice lone bull tracks just cutting out and going out through there. Not a cow with them, nothing. That's a great time.

They're starting to troll. That's a really good. They're breaking away from all the other bulls, you know, that they've been with all summer, and they're lining out going looking for cows. Yeah. And, you know, that's why I'm not big on scouting or anything for elk. It's really kind of funny. Everyone's all excited to go spend money on fuel and all this stuff.

You scout that bull here today during the rut. He might be 16 miles away. So, you know, I just go out with my help call and start calling Bulls in. And when I see the one, I want to whack him. And that is a hell of a decision to make when they're at 30 yards, turn in the corner. And he go, okay, yeah, he looks good, you know. And if he doesn't look good, or you think he doesn't look good and you let him walk. And then I'm a little slow on doing math.

And then I go, oh, wait, he was good. So I call him back in again, you know. I mean, yeah. What are you calling him? Like, do you have a certain sequence or is just, just like whatever you're feeling, do you start with a cow call and then go to a bugle?

What do you do? Always start with cow calls. That's what I always start with. I never pull up to, like if I was at the Coast Hunting Roosevelt's, driving around at night with my GPS, marking locations where I'm getting bulls. I would never start with a bugle.

I always cal call. Okay. Even at night. At night. Anytime. Okay. And I've got an odd setup that I use. I use diaphragms for calls,

for cow calls. But I use a thing called the deep timber sounds, Dan Clor. Do you remember that out called? Dan Clor used to be at all the shows. And it's basically, it's a PVC mouthpiece that you put a key in it and turn it and you pull it apart. You put a finger caught over it, slide it back together, put a dial in it, cut it, cut it again in a different direction, and then rip the excess out. And then you plug that into your call in it. And it's, yeah, it's unbelievable. The look you can locate so far with that thing. And sound just carries better. Incredible. Yeah. I mean, way out there. And if I pull up anywhere where there's bulls, they're going to answer it. If you calcall with that thing, they're going to answer. Or if you're like Boe and you can calcull super loud if you want to. Bo's got a lot more control with the diaphragm than I do. Yeah. You know. Well, so I just want to back up real quick. So when you said at night, so that's what some people do. People who don't elk hunt might not know that that's a tactic is you go out at night. You're not hunting. You're just locating bulls. So you know if you, you know, if you

if you call into this canyon and you hear two bulls going, you're like, okay, I got a place to go in the morning. So it's mostly, and then you can identify, you know, sometimes the size of the bull based occasionally on how it sounds, how deep it is. But that's what, that's a good tactic is if guys are having trouble or just need to find elk, go out at night because the elk are more likely to be calling when they're comfortable, when it's dark and they're more active. Absolutely. You can sleep later, you know, I mean, we all love to sleep.

And as you get older, the good news is you don't need as much of it, right? So I get up at 3.30, 4 o'clock, whatever, 4.30 every day. I slept in this morning at 5.30. I was like, wow, that really felt good. You know? But, you know, if you're having problems, fine and bulls because it's too hot, a lot of times at night it cools down a lot. And you can just, you don't need your bow.

You don't need anything. All you need, for me, what I like is a GPS because you've got to mark these locations. Just run around and use XMaps, you know, and just run around mark all these spots where you're hearing bulls with a certain color. And then, you know, red hot, man, you got a bull right here. This is a bull that he's acted. Every time I call, he's answering. That's a bull I want to go after because if he's, if he's rip into a cow call every time I answer,

he's likely going to come in. He's prime. Do you, I mean, are you listening to that sound of the bull? Like how deep it is? Do you ever put? I never pay any attention to the, you know, how, you know, if he's a, you know, those are the ones I always want to go to, but I get in there and they're just five points. You know what I mean?

I know. And then I've had some that just, and then you walk in there and it's a 410 bowl. Right. So I look at every bowl no matter what. Gotcha. So it just depends on how he's answering. If I've got 10 bowls that I've found, you know,

driving around for a few hours at night, you know, I'll know which one is the one that I want to hear, you know, or I want to go to, you know, that one is root. What do you guys think? Let's go try this bowl first. Do you, when you're stocking an animal, I would say meal deer, because it's so,

tough but if the wind is unstable are you staying back till it settles down and then you know as as we get maybe early in the morning when it's going downhill or later at night when it's going uphill better that is that when you're closing in or how do you do it yeah i kill a lot i actually just did like uh like put compiled a lot of data of just like successful haunts bow on for meal deer and i I would say over half, like probably 60 something percent are killed between 11 and 3 p.m. Middle of the day. And it's because like that's a best situation for the thermals to stabilize and push that wind up into the sky, especially early season. Because after three, now it's switching again because the sun's dropping.

Yeah. Cooling. It's pulling down. But in 11, it's up. So it's coming up then. So in that four hours, it's the best time for the, wind is what you're finding. Yeah, I think it's probably the best time for the wind, most stable shadows. And also the animal is generally more, you know where they're going to be because they're

bedded. Correct. Yeah. Because like before that, like a meal deer, like just particularly a meal deer will go, he'll feed in the morning. Then he'll go to bed, but it's just a temporary bed. He beds. He sits down. It might be shaded. And then what happens is the sun's rising. It's rising and that shadow's moving. And so he wants to stay in the shade, especially early seasons. this is primarily early season, but that shade moves. Because the sun's more intense. Yeah. Well, it's just it's just that the sun's moving at it, I guess, at that arc.

But when it's up above, the shadows stay consistent the longest. Gotcha. So as the sun's higher in the sky, there's that point in the day where it's like moving less. The shadows are moving less. Right. And so when the shadows are moving less, when the sun hits that buck, he's going to get hot and rebad. And so when the shadow moves less, he's tucked in longer. And then also it causes the ground to warm up, which pushes the thermals into the, into the air.

So you might have a swirly wind, but the thermal might be stronger than the swirling wind. So it's throwing your scent up. So if that wind kind of quickly shifts, then it might shift, but it'll be above where he can, where he can smell. And so that's, that's always a good tactic. But that's not to say that I just, that's the only time that I stocked here because that's not always an ideal situation. There's a lot of places where that might not work. Like early season, open country, high country. Yeah, that's a great tactic.

But there's places where you have to use ambush tactics in the mornings and evenings while they're feeding. And I've killed a lot in the evening and a lot in the morning. And so you change your strategy based on the time of day and the winds and everything like that. But for the most part, I'd say on elk wind is the number one factor that busts you. Because they like to bet on those ridges and the places they intentionally bed where the wind swirls. and they kind of bed in multiple positions, right? They do that intentionally.

And then I think with mule deer noise probably gets you the wind and noise, but it's like a toss, coin toss between these two. How many, how often have you killed bucks come into water or food source as opposed to spot and stocking? I'm trying to think. I don't know. When you say data, is that your own data? My own, just like bucks that I've killed.

So you write how much of this data do you have? I mean, on your kills, do you go back after the fact and write everything you remember? Yeah, sometimes. I mean, it's more just like a spreadsheet. Oh. So it's like, okay, it's just like thinking about bucks that I've, deer that I've guided, ones that we've killed. I've killed.

So then I just just, but here's the thing is like the data skewed to my particular style of hunting, right? Yeah. If I like to sit water, then it'd be like, oh, I shoot them all at 4.45 p.m. when they come in or like right, right at first light right it's very skewed to my style of spot and stock hunting but um it also says like the middle of the day i'm very successful on most animals in the middle of the day when most guys are like back at camp that's when i do a lot of killing what i mean why why do you do that i mean is that because history has taught you that that's when you kill or is it that's the best time to kill or I think for stocking in for me particularly and the way that I like strategize it that that's the most

successful portion of the day for me so for some people that might not be right if their skill set didn't lend itself to to capitalize on opportunities maybe they'd be better off waiting at the water for once a bucks get up in the afternoon before they go feed they're hitting water right yeah yeah so it just depends on like your style of hunting but I don't know I found that that's a pretty Do you have an average shot distance that you've noticed? Yeah, I think for meel deer it's too, I can't remember. It was it's like 43 yards, something like that. There's some outliers like some pretty far and some really close.

Yeah. It just averages in that like 40 range, 43. To me the key is, and I never know how people are going to respond to this, is not the first day, it's the second day. You have a giant day. What are you capable of the next day? because that's hunting. And we have to string these days together

where we're fatigued where a lot of times in the mountains no matter how well you try to prepare, you do run out of water. You do run out of food. And you still have to be able to perform. And then not only perform, it's not like an ultra,

you're trying to finish 100 to 200 miles. You have to be able to do this. And not 100, but I mean, you have to be able to be fatigued, have all those obstacles to overcome, and then still make a precise, I shot and kill an animal. That's a lot to, that's a lot to make happen. So I try to simulate that in training. I try to simulate that nervous system taxing of thinking about I just need a drink

of water. I need this or that. I need these little and then still get it done. So that's, that was the goal with the two days. Okay. Well, yeah, you said something to me, I think it was today. I'm not going to forget it because I knew I knew I've heard it but it made so much sense at the time and it's like man people don't quit on hunts and I know your audience isn't all hunters there's non hunters as well so people quit usually not for just one big fat reason it's a combination of things it's like well this hunt sucks because uh my foot's starting to hurt my foot's starting to hurt and I'm out of water. My foot's starting to hurt him out of water and it's supposed to rain tomorrow and I miss my wife. And then like you start to add all these things up and then all of a sudden there's 10 little

baby things. But when you add it's the sum of those 10 things. People are like, yeah, I'm done. I'm calling the plug. And I just don't want to have, I don't want to be susceptible to quitting because of 10 little things. I want it to be like, it's going to have to take an act of God to get me off this mountain. I've set out to do something. And I don't think you can just be born with that. And I also think it's a muscle that can atrophy real quick if you don't keep it fresh, which is why I was saying, dude, I'm pumped to come see Cam again. I did it last year. It gave me an edge.

You know what I mean? He pushed me on a 22-mile run. I'd never ran that far. This year, I'm sure he's got something up his sleeve, and you did. And now I got an edge. You know, you said how you're proving yourself every time because as we know, neither one of us have killed a bull yet this year, right? I haven't killed one.

You haven't killed one. we got it we i don't even know how many i've killed but i know i haven't killed one this year so like all the pressure and sometimes i get on these hunts and it is so hard or there's so much pressure you're thinking about it so much and maybe things just don't go right right out of the gate or maybe it's a different year or it's hot or the moon or whatever and you're like have i got lucky for all these i mean i don't it seems like it's never going to happen it seems almost impossible and that's like i think even though we've done done it. I still have doubts at times, but that's why I work the way I do. So I can, so I can

refer back to me like, no, I've freaking busted my ass for this. It's going to happen. But do you have doubts ever? Yeah. Well, that's really encouraging to hear that I'm not the only one. Yeah. Absolutely. It's, um, sometimes it seems like mission impossible. Like you say, it may be the year, the unit that we're hunting, the elk that we're hunting. But sometimes I get there and I think, how have I ever erode a bull? Like this is the most difficult thing on planet Earth. And these hunts, you make the best plans for them. They never go as plan.

Right. It's like you can lay the best plan and you get there and you're just going to face challenges that you couldn't foresee. They're not going to be elk in this unit. You're going to have to keep moving around and finding them. You're going to run into hunting pressure. Maybe the bull, the bulls are with the cows. And so they're in these huge groups. So you're trying to beat all these eyes of the cows.

And so you get on these hunts. And like part of the skill set is being able to adapt and evolve to the conditions that you're given. So creative thinking is rewarded. And you have to, you know, this is chest not checkers. And so you get there and that bowl is not going to be standing at 40 yards broadside on every hunt, no matter where you're hunting at. You know, it's going to be difficult. And you might just get this sliver of opportunity. But I've done it for long enough that I know if I continue to grind that even though it may.

seem like I may never arrow a bull on this hunt. It's like eventually I'll get an opportunity. So day seven, day eight, day nine, I'll earn an opportunity. I've killed a lot of bulls and bucks on the last hour of the last day just because I continue to put forth effort because I believe in myself. I believe in my skills and I believe that I can make it happen because I've done it before. And so yeah, I definitely, you know, doubt creeps in. I run into tough conditions. sometimes on a hunt, it feels like there is no way I'm going to be able to arrow a bowl on this hunt. But I'm going to give it my all. So if I don't arrow a bowl, I can put my head down at night and know that I gave it my absolute

all on this hunt. And there's a lot of these hunts for a Montana, a big mature six-point bowl where I had 20 days in or last year I drew a Chiris Moose tag. I had 30 days in to trying to kill that moose. And there was a lot of days where I never saw moose. and I put thousands of dollars of gas money in my truck. I took so much time off work. Day in, day out, I continued to grind.

And I used this system of glassing from vantage points. Driving roads is a big part of it as well, because you're covering a lot of country and then also still hunting. And so this combination, but I just kept believing in the process and putting forth effort. And I wasn't going to shoot any bull. Like, you didn't have to be a world record,

but I wanted to shoot a Chiris Bull that I was proud of that was a good mature bull. And eventually I got an opportunity and moose aren't known as being the spookiest animal, but when you've been hunting 30 days and you finally find a shooter bull, like I can't risk it. And so I was hunting this thing in a foot

of snow and I caught him in a willow bottom with a cow. And so I was waiting through a foot of water through this in November. So it was super cold, 20 degrees out. And so I am soaking wet and it took hours on this stock and I finally got an opportunity, put a perfect arrow

on the bull. I took 10 steps, put a perfect arrow in him on the other side and he died right there. And it was like, it meant so much to me because I just continued to grind and put forth this effort. So 30 days later, here I am with my first moose and it's a Chiris bowl just because of that belief and that effort and that day in, day out mentality. And eventually it paid off. Yeah. So, I mean, that sounds great. That's a great story. But have you ever been? Because I've The reason why I say this, I've done this before myself, where I've had so much success for so many years and the failures people don't know about because I overcame them and still killed. But I've had hunts recently where I'm like, you already create this story. It's almost like an excuse.

But I, you know, a Texas whitetail hunt, which isn't supposed to be hard. But I had the hardest time last year. So I had created this story about, hey, sometimes hunting. Let's don't go. You can give all you got. You created this. You're already making this excuse about why you didn't kill, right? Or on the last bear hunt I just did, it's like, you know, I could say, well, I was waiting

for a big bear and I just didn't see one. So you're kind of creating this ready-made story to make yourself feel better because you're, because there's a hint of what other people think because of you've had so much success. I mean, so you go through all these things. And I don't care. I don't care. well, I can't speak for other people. I just don't, I come across like, I'm confident, I believe I work hard,

but still in my head, I can't lie to myself. And there's times where I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to get it done this time. How am I going to people know I'm hunting? I'm going to make a post about it because I post about everything else. What am I going to say? And it's like, it almost feels weird worrying about it, but it's just part of the world we're in. And then funny as it may seem,

I had created this excuse in my head and I overcame even that, my own brain and still killed. Do you doubt yourself or do you like on that moose hunt? Has you already created like something you could say about why you didn't kill? Yeah. There's always an excuse. There's always a reason. And you can put in that reason in your own mind at any point in time. But yeah, I mean, doubt starts to creep in.

Here I am 29 days hunting a moose. And I haven't got a chance at a bowl. and the ruts over with. Now I'm into late season. It's general rifle season. The orange army is out there, and I'm still out with my bow trying to kill a moose, you know?

And so yeah, there's definitely self-doubt that creeps in. And it's just like that's the test. Could you have used a rifle? Oh, yeah. Oh, so it's any weapon. Yeah, yeah. I could have used a rifle from the very beginning

or even towards the end, but for me it's bow only. Yeah. Okay. There's just no other way I want to do it with any species I hunt. It's so interesting. It's like, you know, and rifle hunting is great for experience and it's great to see some success.

But for me, it's like a rifle hunt ends at 200 yards and a bow hunt is just beginning. It's a higher level of hunting. It's a higher level of skill set that's needed. And really, for me to use a rifle, for you to use a rifle, it'd be cheating and be way too easy, you know. And so, like, once you get to a point, it's like it's bow or nothing. Out in the mountains, there's no room for wheat gear. When I'm packing out meat in the heat or loading up for a long-range training trip, I need a cooler that holds the line every time.

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He cares about quality, doing things right away, and about building products here in the USA that actually perform. in the field. That's why I trust this knife. If you want to check it out, head to montananknife company.com. And right now, podcast listeners, get 10% off any knife with code cam 10. C-A-M-10. To keep hammering pack out, built for the backcountry, built to work. You know, with hunting, again, I've killed a lot of elk with my bows, but not like, not like you or a lot of, I'm not, I mean, I'm mid of the pack kind of guy. Montana, you got some good hunting there for sure. Yeah, it's good.

But man, I said, one of the strategies that's like, you know, when you're in close to those elk, when those cats get in there, they don't waste time because the longer you sit there, the more chance of the wind's going to change, the more chances of cow elk's going to walk over here and spot you. So when they get in there, there's this thing. When they've closed the gap, they're aggressive. And I've used that tactic in hunting,

and it's something I've learned literally by watching Mount lions. And it makes my success rate go up. I used to, I haven't done it lately, but back in the day when I first started, because I was hunting very high-pressured elk. But I would like run in the middle of the herd. And it wasn't when I was after like giant bulls, but I'm after like any bull, right? So I would run. I was like envisioning what you were just explaining into the middle of the herd.

And you could get a shot before they figured out how to react, what to do, which way to go. and you're just standing in the middle of them and they're all just staring, but you know, you can take advantage of that. In that confusion. Yeah, right? They're in that moment. They're all confused.

You don't give them a time to think about it. And by the time that they're thinking about it, there's an error already in the air. One of the things you mentioned, too, about how, and we both have about how always learning or being out there and observing, I think until you get all those reps and you know how it is, you take somebody new hunting,

they're just focused on the one step in front of their feet. And they're trying not to kick rocks, step on sticks. not have you know make this noise and they're not their heads not up they're not looking around they're not observing anything other than the one or two feet in front of them and then what i've noticed too because i've taken so many people is like i my i mean i don't know it's you said maybe it's not even conscious maybe it's subconscious but i barely glanced down most of the time my head's up And I'm always, and I don't have to look down on my feet or it's either peripheral or whatever.

But just little stuff like that, that just comes with time, you know, just reps and just noticing things. And you said like the lion stays in the shadow, always stay in the shadow. You say that lateral movement, I know I'm always like trying to keep my arms in close, walking with my bow like this. My arms aren't like this. Even my legs definitely aren't like this. They're in that line. So when you said that, I was thinking, and I do think about that. Like, I want my profile to be as unmoved, just as static as possible.

Focused, right? You almost feel your body. It's kind of just sinking like that. Right. Because, you know, the biggest thing people could do is, of course, the back of their hands and, like, point is something like that. If you, that far away from your body and animal, I don't even know how they could be a long way away and see that movement.

Oh, yeah. So it's just that's, that's an extreme example. But just staying tight, you know, as you mentioned. What have you learned from wolves? Well, I mean, the way they used a landscape. You know, one thing about wolves, a lot of the pack animals is you'll see a pack of wolves moving on a group of elk, right? And you think, okay, point A to point B, they're going to work this like this. And you know, so they stop and they'll back up and they'll start going back this way.

And you're thinking, where are the hell they going, right? Well, they know the landscape in the grand form. Right. They know how the winds move. They know if they go straight at it, the wolves are those elk are going to see them. The wind's going to switch to their back and they're going to be gone. They're going to be busted and they're going to be gone. But they know if they run this ridge up, the backside of it.

And they come over this way. And then they all line out here. Those elk are going to feed right into them. So their knowledge of the landscape is, you know, it's something like they just stop down. They all just think about it. And then they all start to move. They all know it. right and they just go and they get in that position and they have to i mean that's how they eat right

and if they make mistakes it's crazy but i think with animals and i've seen the bears and out lions and wolves and all kinds of them um we think of them being just a super instinctual creature you know i got to eat eat now yeah you know and they're thinking they're thinking all the time and when they go out there they've learned they know these areas they've got a map in their head they know that they can go back a mile this way and go catch us a little gully up like that, pop over the ridge over here and they're going to nail it. They know that map. And there's a complexity about animals if you sit there and watch them over and over and over

again, it's kind of mind-blowing. Because, you know, there's some aspect I think as humans, we don't want these animals to be thinkers. You know what I mean? Right. We have that advantage, we think. Right. Yeah.

And so when you see them have these kind of complex strategies and stuff like that, that's, it just, it makes me one and no more. I mean, the longer I'm out there, the more I'm witnessing animals doing stuff, the more I realize, the less I know. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And there's so much to learn. And to see these animals, the wisdom that they have.

You know, a bear in the landscape can live to be 30 years, right? Right. Yeah. They're out there every day. A lot of life experience. And think about the wild wisdom that they have. Yeah. So if you can sit there and just watch them for a little bit and try to just gather a piece of that,

man, that's huge. Yeah. I mean, we talk about, well, if you hunt all of September, man, you hunted a lot. Imagine these animals all day, every day, every minute for decades, for 30 if you're a bear. And yeah, so we think we're getting good at hunting by hunting a month straight. Yeah. I don't know. It kind of reminds me of I'm a big UFC fan.

So if you talk about like they have fighters go train with Khabib over in Dagestan and they're like, oh, I'm going to be, you know, it's spent five weeks over there. I'm on a whole other level. I'm like, well, he's just been doing this for 20 years. Yeah. You're not even close to making that gap up. And then all the wisdom his dad had that handed on. And there's just a community of like wisdom from generation and generation, which animals have the same, which is insane.

You know, that example you shared with the wolves. It reminds me, because you said they might know this goalie. They go back a mile and a half. That's a big advantage. Hunters wouldn't really do that. Hardly any hunters would go back a mile and a half, even though if a wolf was doing it, it must be the best way to take advantage of whatever that herd of elk was doing.

But because they're in such good shape or can cover so much country, I mean, they're not working out to get in shape, obviously. But they can cover countries so easily a mile and a half is nothing. They'd probably do that and I don't know how long. And then they're in position for that herd of elk. But that's, yeah. Yeah, it's a lazy two-laker. You watch them do that.

Sometimes you think they're leaving. And then you watch them and then they realize when you see it all come together, like that was all strategy, all that out. They know how to move on the landscape. Like you said, and they're fit. And they're fit because they're out there all the time. Right.

They can, I mean, you get me into all kinds of things about my opinion, but if you're hunter, man, you should be fit. That's just the bottom line. What do you think is the biggest factor for people not getting a big bear? Like what sabotage, how do they sabotage? Well, you've only got five days.

So not everybody's gonna get a giant right because realistically because a giant has to come in you have to be perfect as we talked about yeah but there's no guarantee but even to get a good bear like i don't want to make it so like even though seven footers they're pretty smart they'll make a little bit more mistakes but the older they get they learn stuff i probably from being with sitting with a bunch of a bunch of hunters for a lot of years maybe they get complacent and they're like nobody's because they're sitting alone now and it's like well i can get away with this movement or i can't they'll pee off the stand, which is fine.

But if you're peeing 15 times off the stand, your scent is there. The bear smell it, if that big one. Just, I'll just say, I've never peed off a stand. Yeah. So I know people can do it. I'm like so. I pee at the bait all the time. I'm so.

But they're used to my smell. Yeah, it's true. You're up there all the time. But I don't take any chances. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I always take the practice shot. Yeah.

I don't move around. Yeah. I don't pee or like, I'm like, I pretend like they're white tail almost. Your practice. shot is a nice confidence building. Yeah. I think people take for granted, like what we kind of touched on before, is because the smaller bears are coming in and the average bears are coming in and you can like, oh, my zipper or a

bag or a can or a cough or whatever. And it's like, oh, they look at you and they keep going. Yeah. The more mature they are, they usually don't mess up. Right. Unless they're really, really distracted. Yeah. They're not giving you that those second, third chances.

So we've talked before about some of the old wives tales of bears. that bear's eyesight is poor totally not true it's got about the same eyesight as a human the other one the other line I've been hearing late time like it's so it's such bullshit that when you see a bear he's as scared of you as you are of him

oh yeah that is the biggest bullshit line ever yeah yeah for sure yeah it's uh what I what I think one thing I don't know it's kind of hard is just like those old bear you just you just can't screw up yeah and

I mean, I even went so far like where I killed last year, so I made that other separate blind on the side because he was so dialed in on and he was just never coming in ever. No, because he'd walk in and he'd look. He'd look for where you were supposed to be. If you saw something there, because we're sitting on the ground where we know. So I'm kind of sabotaging myself in that way where I like being on the ground. You're definitely making it harder to kill. If you're in the tree in the tree stand. Oh, yeah.

That's a way to kill a big bear for sure. Yeah. I mean, so people say, I want to sit on the ground. Just know, okay, you're kind of screwing yourself. Yeah. And they want to sit with us. They want to sit with me. Yeah.

And I'm like, if you really want to kill a big one, go sit by yourself. Sit the tree stand. Yeah. They won't know you're there. Yeah. More time in the stand. It's better. I don't have a routine or specific thing.

But I do specifically try different stuff on bulls, right? Like sometimes I'll just grunt. Mm-hmm. Sometimes I'll just, no chuckles. And I'll just scream. Is it just by feel or just by listening to them or just taking a chance? It's throwing something against the wall, see if it sticks. Yeah, that's all it is.

So do you bugle with that one, same read? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's hear that fucker. It's going to come. No, no tube, tubes make a big difference, by the way. They do. They do. But I think the audio is going to pick it up okay in this room.

Yeah. I think there's a mic under here. Yeah. There's a mic on my sock. But I'll do, I'll just do some grunts. without a tube. Okay. Yeah. So those last few grunts where he had the little squeal in with the grunt, that's, that's so good.

Yeah. They do both. Yeah. Like a boy, you'll hear that. Yeah. They're all mixing it all in together, right? And it's like, but you're hearing different sounds. Yeah.

And they do it. I mean, I just rewatched that video they had of that five by six we called in right after those three little calves come running in. Yeah. And we kind of scrambled for a setup. And I called it him and he came and he did that exact thing. You know, he had a bugle and then he did that chuckle and there was a high-pitched part of that chuckle.

And there's one, there's a note in there on just one of the chuckles. And then it tails off. I don't know, I kind of notice little things like that and I go, huh, that's pretty cool. Try to implement that. Yeah. But I think it's doing, I think it's just a variety, you know, just trying a variety of things. See what happens. You know, if they're just barely, oh, well,

You might want to not go charging in with a stick, screaming, and this and that. Maybe, I mean, might work. A lot of times they're, like, from the bed bugle in a little bit. And you can tell, you can tell that it's just like a quieter, more subdued bugle. And then you can tell when they're freaking amped up, too, and just screaming. And sometimes, you know, I did say hunters call too much because it's too frequent. But on the same token, I've heard Bulls nonstop bugle, you know, just going crazy themselves. And if there, yeah, to that point, there's a lot, you watch a lot of videos.

And of course, there's now, there's tons of footage of people calling an elk and this and that. And, you know, pretty standard to have a caller, a pint, you're trying to call an elk past, you know, keep them focused on that. Because like he's, like we talked about, a bull at a couple hundred yards know exactly where you're at. And when he gets to that point, he can see that. He knows exactly what should be standing there. But if the caller's back behind, well, he may see something, but you'll see it. You know, when you watch those, I watch the elk. Yeah.

when those guys are calling and calling elk in. And there is a certain amount of calling that is like kind of imperative because that bull will start doing this, right? Yeah. Start looking around and all of a sudden, pooh, go get him. You got to keep coming. So they keep after it and they keep in. They keep that bull kind of focused because he may call up and lock on something.

Didn't like it or something's up. Here they cockle, yeah. But he looks back there. That's scary. But that's a cow. That's scary. That's a cow. So there is, I mean, that amount of calling is sometimes required.

Yeah. If you, they may get bored. They may not like the situation or they go, I don't hear. I can't, they already know you've got to win. They know that part. They know one sense is missing. Right. Yeah.

And that always puts them on high alert too. I think what, but yeah, they all, it's not like they're freaking, you know, what, what would I want to say. I mean, they're animals. So it's not like they're super intellectual, right? So they can think, well, I see something there, but then like you said, you make the call on there and then they're back on the collar. And they'll like kind of weigh out, uh, because they're big aggressive animals. If they see some guy on their knees and it's a little bit out of place, but it's something small. Right. And they're a thousand pounds. And then they hear this call right pass this thing they're not sure about, you can distract them again and give them just that

encouragement and you know, fuck that guy sitting, that kneeling down that you're not sure about. You're on a mission that because if they're coming in and they're charging in, they're on a mission to go and solve this problem. Whether it's another bull or if it's a cow, they're going to go and figure out what the, why are you in my area or I'm taking this cow back to my herd? and they could like ignore what could be a red flag by whatever, but if you're looking small and you're not moving a lot, yeah,

they can be, their emotions can get the best of them. Yeah, and they can be persuaded by those calls, you know, and in certain cases, like I see, I've seen a ton of,

you know, content on people, and I've noticed out of ton, I'm like, if they, if those guys weren't calling as much as they were, I think that bull would have left. Yeah.

Yeah. You had to keep them coming. But they kept on him. But that's situational. And if you're the caller and you can't see this happening, it's really hard to judge him. Well, but then also there's that fine line where sometimes you have to separate yourself from the hunter and you have to go over the hill. Yeah. You know, because if the bull comes in and he knows you should be able to see down there and doesn't see anything, you should go see whatever's calling.

But all of a sudden, you could go down into the cut. or you could go wherever or it's just out of sight, then that could be enough to pull, but then you're not being on, you can't read the bull because you can't see them because you're over the hill.

So yeah, it's, you know. That's the hardest part is if you're back, born off calling and you can't see them or kind of judge them when they're finally inside, but yeah, using those, using the terrain is probably one of your biggest advantages. Yeah. Because if it's wide open, like that bull word,

he stopped, that five by six. He stopped as soon as he got. Should be. to see something. He stopped as soon as he had to. Yeah. Interesting. But if no, there was a hill there, right, or a little draw. Yeah. Well, now an out count sound coming from that draw, to me, that that's perfectly natural to them that they couldn't see a cow down in there. I mean, they know that. Yeah. They go, they know they got to get to the lip of that hill. They know they got to look over. Yeah. Just like they know they got to go to a creek to drink out of it. Yeah. I mean,

it's instincted stuff. So yeah, using that kind of terrain and those setups is, It's one of your most important tools. Yeah. Because they will stop when they can and know exactly what they're looking at and what they should be seeing. You know, is there, and there's a spectrum of the behaviors that happen besides that. There's the ones that don't care and run in to a duck call and get shot, sure. Yeah. Or there's the ones that don't even come in.

I mean, it's, yeah, it's an interesting little, little game and dance. but yeah not been able to see the elk yeah it's it's hard but i figured you always start out that way too you hardly ever seen when you start out either right so you know just go but i just go with my guts whatever whatever sounds right yeah i've been wanting to do it so i was turning 55 i'm like you know it's on my list i got to check it off i know i got to check it off and so you know again that the preparation and the planning and all that is like just as enjoying enjoyable to me as anything yeah Yeah, so that was the process. It's like building that up.

And so, you know, it was FMJ dangerous game. Two blade, grizzly stick, mass eye, you know, single bevel kind of thing. So I had basically just shy of an 800 grain arrow. Yeah. But, you know, I don't mind telling you, like, I don't shoot a heavy bow really for my side. I shoot like 70, 72 pounds. Yeah. But I wanted to be able to shoot 80 pounds at a minimum.

you know, Evan, you know, got me a bow from Hoyt, set it up. And then it took me a couple months to just get to the point where I felt comfortable, not drawing the bow, but drawing the bow smoothly, calmly in any position. Because I don't know what I'm going to encounter. Am I going to be on my knees? Am I going to be twisted? Am I going to be standing? I don't know.

Like, am I going to have to hold a full draw for, you know, and risk my life if I let down? Like, I don't know what I'm getting into. So it took me a couple months and then just shooting. I went so far and I've done this a lot. But I'm, you know, you hear athletes all the time talk about visualization. And so I'm huge on visualization. And I think just like even just, you know, as you're going into a hunt, like thinking through that shot, like thinking through that positive outcome and like your arrow hitting exactly where it goes, the bull running and falling over. Right.

Like and just that visualization. So I think the way we practice is, you know, so to speak, the way we fight, right? Or the way we hunt. And so I did this a lot for my brown bear. I built a full-size brown bear target out of a sheet of plywood, you know, and just, you know, as artistically as I could, painted up and then cut out the kill zone. So it gave me not only the visualization of the bear and, you know, the size, the general size of the animal, but then just a little bit of intention that, If I didn't hit, you know, I'd put a whatever, you know, block target or whatever behind the kill zone. Yeah.

Like if you don't hit the kill zone, like, they're good chance you're-fucking up an arrow. Yeah, there goes 20 bucks, right? Yeah. And so it gives you just a little bit of, of, there's some stakes there. Exactly. Right. So I did the same with the Cape Buffalo. So put the Cape Buffalo target.

I bought a poster, like a full-size, like people would shoot it gun at. Yeah. And I took it and I traced it out. And then I built this Cape Buffalo target. And I started shooting it, got the arrow dialed, you know, worked up the broadhead, found out what I wanted, penetration, et cetera. And then I took that Buffalo target and I started putting it in my yard like down in a ravine, shooting up hill.

And like I went in with as much confidence as you possibly could have. Yeah. But at the end of the day, there's still this lingering doubt. Am I going to perform? And I'd never shot and killed anything with this setup. So like I have to trust people like, that this is going to work, you know? So long story short, you know, we got a tracker on the front of the vehicle.

We're driving towards a waterhole. We're going to sit water. Yeah. And it's in the evening. And the guy picks up tracks and they're headed towards the waterhole. Well, when we get there, the wind's all wrong, like for the blind. So it's not going to work. And the guy's like, well, I think what we should do is hunt into the wind.

and see if they're around here and then we'll do a big loop and we'll end up back at the water at dusk and maybe the wind will have either calmed down or you know whatever so i'm like yeah bro i don't you know yeah i don't know you're the expert yeah and uh and sure enough as we're going into the wind so we've got the advantage they're coming to us perfect setup so you know you don't have to you know it's just like my best success with elk has been yeah I can stalk in I've killed a few like that but the best opportunity is like me setting up and letting them come past me right so like I try to control again this many variables and so that's what happened but now they get 70 yards away and we'd already talk me in the pH he's got his gun

416 whatever and he's like don't worry about shooting through like your your your cape and like wounded another like probably not going to happen you know told him what I was shooting he's like you know once you shoot don't move etc etc so we go through all this well they're coming and so we stop we get you know we don't really have any cover but now they stop and they're just milling around and they're a couple of them bed because they're just going to wait till dark to head to water yeah right are they still 70 about yeah and so now like you're in the presence and like you can feel the aura like this is what i this is what i signed up for yeah like i don't want it to be quick and like done no Like I want to experience this.

And so, you know, I have a, I don't know why, but I, maybe because of the preparation, whatever mindset I have, but like I, I am not, I don't get nervous in these situations. Because the way I look at it is I haven't done anything yet. Yeah. Like, I'll get happy and nervous after I kill the animal. Right. But until then, why, you know, why go there? But it was awesome to have them there.

But I'm like, don't f*** this up. Yeah. Like these things aren't going to run away. They could chance it could stampede us, right? And the trackers had already told me, like one guy had a scar like up his ribs and he said that they weren't even tracking a buffalo. They were tracking an Eland and this buff just runs out of nowhere and like damn near gores this guy to death.

Right. And they all had these stories. So like, this is real. They're aggressive. I'm like, cool. That's what. Anyways. So just by luck, they start standing up.

Well, we had already seen. One of the, there were a couple good bowls in there, but one bowl was bigger than the rest. He was grayer than the rest and he was broomed on his right side. And they're like, the guy's like, that is an old dug boy. Yeah. Like an old dug a boy. Yeah. And like he's not going to win any beauty contest, right?

Perfect. So just so they get up, they start milling and and just by luck, this old bull is, you know, they're kind of in a, in a hurt. right and there's maybe I don't know 13 or 15 or something like that he just happens to be closer to me and I just wait I'm like you know what if it if it if he doesn't give me the shot don't shoot like you'll find another one it's either meant to beer it's not you know and sure enough I was super patient he comes by broadside and he moved that leg forward and as he moved that leg forward you know it starts to like I'm thinking like obscure his vision And I'm not worried about the others.

I come to full draw. I settle in 26 yards. And I had orange veins, a wrap and a knock, right? Mm-hmm. And I just, right now, I can still see that orange arrow going exactly where I wanted to, right? And so I shoot and I didn't move. Normally I'd reload. I didn't move.

And I just remember hearing the P.D.H. Say, Deadpool. Oh, man. And so they run off like this and they loop around. you can see them kind of running through that scrub country. And all I can see is like this big black mass going in like a cloud of dust. And one little black blob is falling back from the rest. And then that blob disappears and the herd thunders off.

I got the African sunset. I got a bow in my hand. My Cape Buff is dead right there. And as that's happening, I hear the death bellow. And I remember, like right now I'm like, bro, I'm like, fucking be present. And just take all this in and remember it. Because this is what you live for. And dude, he ran 100 yards and fell over dead.

Now, we still waited till dark and still waited for the trackers and still did the whole thing and played it up. But I was like. How amazing is that? And even they're like, and you've said this a lot. And I, I always agree with it. But it's like, that was the honorable death that that old bull deserved and the best death he was ever going to get. For sure. Like he was literally over in seconds. Yeah. You know? We've seen what happens in the wild and Africa. Oh, dude, it's brutal. Yeah. To even healthy animals, let alone old animals. Yeah. But yeah, that was a perfect death for him. But what a. I would do that every year.

Dude, what a visual. What a visual. It's like I can just see it. The takeaways I have from from those stories about your brown bear and your K Buffalo is the intentionality and your preparation. And I think people can learn a lot from that because I, this is serious. It is dead serious. But it's not you can be serious and is like, oh yeah, I shot my bow every day. Okay.

But to what level? I mean, there's different levels of shooting your bow every day. Yep. your level is the highest level. You know, you, you know, had that where you wanted that image in your head. You wanted that buffalo silhouette or whatever. And you wanted the stakes if you hit the plywood or whatever on the brown bear. And it's like, that's what it takes.

That's what it takes to be infallible in moments where a lot of people would crumble. Yeah. You know, a lot of people in those situations, because the emotions are so high and there's so much pressure and you're in another country or in Alaska. a lot of people fail. And there's other people in that case, there were other people's lives on the line I felt. Right. Like I had, I felt that responsibility.

Like, if I wound this Cape Buffalo, like, I'm not going to track it. They're going to track it. Yeah. They've already shown me that they've always been killed, you know. Wow. I mean, listen, I'm not going to shoot my bow through the, my truck windows like you, right? But it's the same thing, right? You're trying to, you know, yeah, you can't simulate that, but you're trying to like add

some pressure right to test yourself prior to the ultimate test yeah you know and i i really enjoy that process and i don't think enough people and i don't think enough of us talk about that for people to understand like this is how you this is how these things this is how you're consistently successful anybody can be randomly successful for sure but it's like you want to be consistently successful and and that's i think to the level it takes yeah i've been shooting hoy for over 20 20 years now. And they're a lifetime partner of mine. That's not something I take lightly. I stay with partners that prove themselves. And Hoyt continues to do that year after year. They shattered the industry standards and built the AX90, the first 90 pound bow to exist and be offered to consumers.

Why? Because I want a hard-hitting arrow delivered with enough force to push through, say, a rib or the edge of a shoulder blade because it's bow hunting. Not every shot is going to be perfect. But when the animal reacts, or maybe I don't make the most perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow and a 90-pound bow gives me more room for error. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows, but if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code, Cam, for 20% off. If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering. One of the hardest parts of hunting is glassing big country to find animals you know are there.

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Six-hour Zulu binoculars. Seymour, miss less, keep hammering. What do you think is like a bow hunter's best tool to have in his arsenal? What is, like if you had one skill that was above all the others, what would that be?

I think like if you're just, if you just want to be successful and you could do one thing, it's a level of paying attention. Like the biggest mistake I see people, do whether they're stocking in where it is like they're walking with their head down and it's the easiest thing to do is like i can tell i can go out with a guy and know how competent he is within three seconds of watching him walk really yeah like because people like walk like this or stock like this or they're so concentrated on right in front of them it's like you know the guys that are

really good are looking out here their heads are like you can you've walked your entire life you don't need to be like down on the ground yeah like being attention head up head on a looking around being alert because it's the one that you don't see that busts you. It's the things you're constantly moving and changing. Like any sport, it's like when you're first playing, I don't know, say soccer and you're like, you're looking down at the ball and the feet and the pros are like looking out here at the goal. Right. Yeah.

Like it's not. So I think that that's just super easy to do. It's like put your head on a swivel, move in and and pay attention. Yeah. I think it is like anything else. So there's some people who, if they're not looking where their feet are going, they're stepping on shit, kicking shit. You know, it's like, I know what you're saying because to be good, you have to have your heads up. But you also have to be aware of it. I don't know how I do it or how to explain it.

But it's like I look one time and then I know where to place my feet for, you know, 10 yards or whatever. 100%. Yeah. So, I mean, you're looking, but barely. And it's just enough. and then you know that through experience that were to put your feet. Exactly.

Yeah. What I used to do, like, it's, well, guiding sometimes there's, not everybody's in the same physical shape that you would be in, right? So there's, you're like doing a lot of, I would just consider it, I think it's like slow walking,

like trudging. Like I've got a certain pace and you do my pace. So I didn't have way far away. So I just slow myself down. I used to play this game. I would just like look around, not even think about it.

And then I'd pick a stick, like off in the distance. And then I'd close, my eyes and walk and place my foot on that stick. Oh, okay. You know, it was just a fun game that I would just do because I'd bored, like, waiting for somebody to, so that would slow me down. So I'd walk essentially long, in pretty good ways, like, I don't know, 20 feet or more,

like pretty good. Your peripheral vision can really see the ground. And there's certain times where it's like, okay, look down, check, you know, place your foot. If I got to feel the ground, I mean, I feel, I also feel the ground with my feet, too. I kind of, you kind of use your everything available to you. Some people just like they don't recognize that their feet feel the ground. It's like, oh, there's a stick and they're just going to throw all their weight on.

Yeah. They're going to just walk and drag their feet or they're going to do whatever. But yeah, you can, you can get, I got surprisingly, it's weird how just your brain can build the picture and you just can navigate like over the log with your eyes closed once you've seen it. Yeah. I did that for, I've spent hours doing that, not out of like trying to practice anything, just to slow me down. And I'd just be bored, like trying to get to a spot in middle of the day, like, moving. And you got a guy, like, walking behind you. Like, okay, I'm just going to do this with my eyes closed.

I'd go miles like that. Really? Open and close them. Open and close them. It was just something like a time killer for me that'd slow me down. And it was like a mental. Because otherwise I just feel like, come on. Can we just like, it's just right here, dude.

Please just just walk. Yeah. No, I get it. And that's good training for sure. I mean, I've always thought of it as like in football where they'd have the running backs run through the tires. You know what I mean? I think a lot of those guys were looking at the tires. But if you could get your feet in the tires and have your head up to look to where to cut afterwards,

I always thought of about like that, like quick feet, good foot placement. I thought of hunting like that too. And I know there's something about being aware too about not just. putting all your weight on that because I feel stuff all the time and then don't finish the step or you know you kind of like your foot goes down it doesn't have to go down all the one time you know I mean it's good to place it and then feel it as you go but I think people miss that part of it they do and it's like it's going to be really hard to be a good bow hunter without that awareness yeah I think most people don't even know they just kind of bramble around like bull in a china shop

And I just don't know that they're so loud. I think I have like a specific look. It's like I'm always looking back like with this glare. And that glare means like, dude, you're loud. Can you stop kicking every like stop dragging? Pick your feet up, place your foot. Don't slam your heels into everything. Like there's certain, you know, balsam root,

the one that's like almost looks like a mule's ear and it dries up and is super loud. That's alarm bells for mealed. Yeah, for sure. People will just kick through that stuff and not even pay attention. Like they don't even notice that. they're doing it. So it's just that level of being self-aware and aware of the sounds you're making. And then also not being so timid. Then you get the opposite. Yeah. So worried. Right.

Everything. You kind of got to, you kind of learn that little flow of like when you can move, when you can be loud, when you have to be quiet. Mm-hmm. But that's just experience. Experience. Yeah. Being aware. Right. It's a, you know, the other pet. So I got a couple hunting with people. First of all, I hate hunting with people. But if we're going to film, unless you're self filming like you have. It's just part of the nature of the beast. But a couple things that drive me crazy with somebody else in addition to kicking everything or whatever,

but the pants swishing when you're walking and then talking like in a normal voice. Yeah. Or even like it's like a lower voice, but still like the regular voice instead of the whisper type thing. It's like, I don't think people realize how fucking far your voice. You're fucking far your voice carries in the mountains, especially if it's clear out.

Oh, yeah. I mean, miles those animals can hear you, it seems like. I was hunting a spot last year, last year, late season. And I was up on a mountain doing some glassing. And I had some buddies that had, it was a buddy that had a tag. And I'm literally, I felt like, I don't know, probably not a mile, but a long ways away. Mm-hmm. And I radioed and I was like, I can hear you guys talking.

Oh, God. It was just one of those. The wind was perfect. I'm up on the top, maybe an ampla theater sound, but they had to have been. I was like, why are you guys yelling down there? Like, they're just all having lunch, just BSing. You know, I'm like, dude, I can sure you guys.

So imagine what the deer can hear. How far? I mean, so far. That whole basin had to know that, oh, there's a hundred, you know, are humans here. Yeah. I've always been in that mindset, like, especially with a bow. Like, you do not want those animals to know you're there. And I'd see it all the time where guys would be like, oh, well, it's not, they're so far away, they don't care.

Like they aren't running away. I was like, yes, they are not running away. Because if they ran away from every danger, not in their immediate presence, then they would be running all the time. However, they are aware. And when you get into that zone, things change. Yeah. That might mean a jumping buck. That might mean a buck that's heads up a lot longer.

Yeah, because they heard something. They heard something. and they know that there's predators here. And now when they hear a stick crack, when you're within 40 yards, instead of looking and then going back to feeding, they're going to look and stare. And that's the difference between success and failure.

Exactly. Like, I would do the same thing. Like, guys would go, say, a ridge, and they're standing on the certain ridge where we would glass, or they, I've even seen it, where it's like there's a ridge that I would always park a ways away, walk around, like, sneak over the top, using brush and cover and sit there in glass.

It's like, oh, well, those deer aren't running, because the guy's got his truck up there. Like, yeah, until that guy gets to go on a stock. And then he just blows him out because they know that the danger is there. Yeah. That's huge. No, nothing goes unnoticed. I mean, if a buck's getting age on him, he's hurt a lot, been around a lot.

Yeah. You know, identified a lot of hazards that he's avoided, you know, and that's just part of it. Yeah, I don't think people, I don't think people give the animal. the credit for the survival instincts it has, you know, to get old. For sure. And yeah, it's all those. I even like, I know you probably tell me about this, but when I'm on a stock, I'm always thinking about what kind of barriers, not just for sight, but also for sound.

You know, if I'm on the other side, if I can use the other side of the ridge and then pop over, instead of trying to stock on the same side of the ridge because that sound will, I know that sound's going to carry right to them. Or on the other side, you can get away with. so much more or just small barriers like that, definitely in the shadows all the time. I mean, I see people that are, you know, that hunt. And there, if I'm, if there's a brush there or something there,

I'm always going on the shady side. Yeah. As opposed to the sun's side. Oh, for sure. Even if it, you think like, doesn't matter. We hadn't seen anything, but I'm still always in the shadows. Is that kind of what you do? Yeah, 100%.

Yeah. Like move from shadow to shadow stopping. Yeah. Yeah, because there's like, it's all the little things. And it's, it's come a combination of, I mean, over the years, I've just found that that's how you become consistently successful is accounting for all the really small things. Right.

And if you're accounting for those all small things, then the big things you're clearly accounting for. And it all adds up to maybe a little bit better opportunity. Maybe, maybe you were standing there and you popped over a ridge and you're glassing or you're looking, you don't see anything. and a deer happens to walk up, right? And you're standing in the sun's side. Well, now everything that has to go right,

it's like it's easier for that deer to see you. The sun's on you. He's going to catch the limbs drawn. He's going to catch a lot of things. He has more opportunity for that to go wrong. But if you did the one small thing of being maybe in that shade, you could grab an arrow off and knock it without that flash hitting him. And maybe he's still unaware.

And then you might have that opportunity to draw back and get a shot. So just a small. little thing amounts to larger things down and all those little tiny little details compound. People don't know who aren't archers, but judging yardage to the yard at, you know, half a football field. Not easy. Not easy. Not easy.

Yeah, that's kind of the art, too, to what we do. We have to be great shots, but we also have to judge great and make good decisions is what I tell people. Yeah. But how I judge is, you know, growing up, all I had was a deer tart or a bedded buck target and a bag target in my front yard where I didn't have a range you know everybody thought I was just blessed with this 40 target pristine range must be nice must be nice yeah yeah but I wasn't I had a bag target that was shot up and um my dad would get old rags from a clothing place and stuff it and chicken

mash and you know but it sat at 30 yards in my yard and so I would shoot that all day as a kid and so still to this day I can find 30 yards like Like I call it my absolute. And so that's what I really rely on pretty heavy is no matter the situation, I'm like I can find 30. I just close my eyes and then I'll take all the trees away, take everything away, just me and the target. And I'm like, where would my butted buck be in the yard as a kid?

And it's like boom right there. That's 30. You visualize that. Visualized that. Yeah. From there, it's depth perception. I'm listening to my competitors' arrows because we're all shooting about the same speed. And so from the time the bow fires to the time it takes to hit the target is,

the same for most of us at 40, 45, 50. And so if you know what that sounds like, and you're not up first, you're listening to arrows. And so I'm going, like maybe I'm thinking I'm looking at it, maybe 42, 43, and they shoot. And I'm like, oh, it sounds more like 45, 46. So it just keeps me from making huge mistakes like that. And then I'm looking, you know, I'm taking grounds of 30, then I'm walking it back to the target. And you just use everything around you, arrow holes in the target what are other people doing tendencies you look and everybody shooting this thing high it must look further than it is yeah um so you just use everything around you to make a good decision it's not like this everybody thinks i just walk up and go oh that's 49 and a half i'm like no yeah i'm like

could be 46 could be 50 now let's use everything i can see and here and and and and find to narrow that window and make a great decision here and that's more how we judge distance some days it's really clicking, you look at it, and it's like, boom, it's just coming to you. So when I look at these bows and these things, or what, everything is always through this lens of hunting. And I just know, I mean, I don't shoot high let off. I shoot, okay, people will say, well, why do you shoot 90 pounds if you don't worry about speed? I'm like, it's a whole completely different thing. Right. I shoot a tall brace height bow. I like a seven inch brace height if I can get it at to get any speed out of that,

I'm going to have to shoot 90 pounds because I'm 27 and a half inch draw. Right. But I don't shoot high letoff. I still shoot low letoff because I'm, again, for people who don't know, a high letoff bow, you can move that anchor around pretty good

because you can't feel it. There's no, there's less tension. It's rough. And it's like, so people could take that comment and say, oh, you can't feel a high letoff bow. Yeah, maybe I could have rewarded it.

You can feel it. It's just easier to be off. So I'm like trying to control all these things. People see this thing sitting here. Every arrow I weigh, it has to be within one grain before it goes in my quiver. And what I explained like to jelly roll or to Joe or to anybody who gets into archery is everything matters. Right.

Everything matters. So if everything matters, what of these things that matter is going to help you? What's going to hurt you? Correct. That's it. a short brace height bow is potentially going to hurt you. Correct.

Not potentially. Unless you are at a certain level, it'll really hurt you. All I'm saying is, okay, in a controlled environment on the range, 20 yards, paper, there's your X, whatever. Pull back, take your time, do whatever you want. Completely different than hunting. Yes, 100%. Is that to say a person? couldn't release a perfect arrow hunting, no, you can.

The odds are going down, okay, with all these scenarios. Every heartbeat, it goes down. Right. So I'm just like trying to control what I can control. And what I've learned in 40, so I've been hunting for 40 years, I've been bow hunting since 89. So it's like 37 seasons, something like that. What I've learned in hunting is it's hardly ever like on the range at the bow rack at 20 yards. I don't shoot tournaments. I never really have been a paper shooter. So I can't really speak to that.

But I have shot at the bow rack a lot. I have shot on my back. It's a lot different hunting. Right. Okay. It's things are happening a million miles an hour. Emotions are going. Animals are reacting.

And so, yeah, I'm trying to put all the things that I can control, all those odds I spoke of in my favor of possible. Correct. So I'm shooting the straightest arrow. Okay. I'm shooting. I'll pay more for the, for what I think is the best arrow.

An arrow is different from everything else. So you can talk about the bow, talk about the release, talk about the letoff. Okay, an arrow is separate on its own. Yep. Is this straight? Is it going to fly? It's what's the highest likelihood,

I'm going to release an accurate arrow. Can that arrow affect where I'm going to hit? Yes, it can. Yeah, 100%. Based on tolerance, right? So if I look at everything individually, And people will say, well, oh, you talked about releases, you know, and you say that they're advantage for Target, but they're not, yeah, they're not for hunting.

They're different. And in my opinion, for me, they're different for hunting. I want an index release. So I'm just looking at all this just through the lens of hunting. If you want to argue about it, you're going to lose. You're going to lose because I'm putting every odd in my favor for hunting only. Right. You're looking at it.

TAC is a completely different thing. Oh, yeah, 100%. Shoot your high poundish bow, light arrow with a field point, glue in whatever, make it as light as possible. I don't give a... It's not hunting.

Right. It's not hunting. You're not worried about penetration. You're not worried about anything. You're worried about just tack, right? Yeah. That's different than Vegas. That's different than hunting.

These are all different things. you can optimize for each one. Yeah. Well, so the thing that I've been saying to people about your comment because it got sent to me freaking tons of times was they're like, and there's even people made some videos about it. They're like,

well, why do you shoot a 90 pound bow? And I've literally told everybody, it's not for speed. It's for energy. Yeah. So if you take like, I'm not shooting 90 pounds.

Right. Guess why? Yeah. Because I got a 32 inch draw length. I don't have to. 42. Right? Yeah. I don't have to. Yeah. And so I shoot a either a, depending on my build, I either shoot a 520 grain arrow or a 600 grain arrow. I have two builds. That's awesome. 70 pounds. It's a lot of energy. Yeah. Dude, it's like 104. Yeah. Well, I guarantee you that yours is probably

that or more too. You're just having to use because of the draw length differential, you're having to use poundage to shoot a heavier arrow, but probably getting the same. kinetic energy that I am. Right. It's not a speed thing. It's an energy thing. Right. Exactly. And I, how fast do you think I could shoot if I shot a 350 grain arrow? Dude, it'd be like 340. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah. I've been there. I've done that. And you just can't control it. No. I, you can't control it. So I'm not going to do it in hunting. We used to do, and in way before tack, we used to do skins. It's a dollar a target. Yeah. You know? And it's like best arrow at every time.

Target gets the pot. We cared about that like it was like the Super Bowl. Right. Like, oh, we're going to go, we're doing skins today at the, or whatever, at Myrtle Creek. Okay. It's on. You are optimizing that setup, lightest arrows you could find.

Most poundage, because, you know, this is unmarked. So, and just before, you couldn't have rangefinders, even if they had them. So we're just judging yardage. It matters how fast that arrow shoots, right? a whole other matter. So we've been through all the tiny little veins, the super thin light arrows, everything. It's they'd bend if you looked at them, but they're light, right? And that's different than hunting. Right. So we can we, we can look at all this in, and calculate it and make decisions based on what we're turned to do. But yeah, to your point, it's, it's not so much speed is a function

of energy, but it's just one part of it. Correct. For me to get any energy, I need speed. for me to get speed at 27 and a half, I have to have poundage. Right. Because I don't want to give up. You're also sacrificing energy with a lighter arrow. So I don't want a light arrow. That's right. I want to around a 500 grain arrow.

So for all that to work, 90 pounds. Yeah. But the vast majority of people that walk into archery shops are barely shooting a 400 grand arrow. Right. Barely. Well, if the vast majority, and this is back to your comment, your comment was spot on, People just didn't like the fact that it was true, whether it applied to them or not.

Right. And so, you know, when it comes to like all the things that you, first of all, you're a sandbagger. Yeah. You're a total sandbagger. You act like you can't shoot very good. Yeah. You act like you don't know what's going on with your bows. You are full of shit, Cam Haines.

You are way smarter and you're a way better shot than you let on. So you can keep that. Yeah, calling you out, player. You are, you can sigh all you want. Peep, you are a really good shot. No, you never did the tournaments because you don't give a shit about that. Yeah. But anyone who's watched you shoot out at the farm or anyone that's watched you shoot animals,

that shit don't happen on accident. Right. And we've all gotten lucky on animals, so I'm saying, but you're a really good shot. Right. Over time, usually the truth comes to the surface. That's what I'm saying. So you're a really good shot and you always kind of downplay your knowledge of stuff and look, And you're, you know, half a mile from one of the best bow shops in the country.

And Wayne's awesome. And so you have access to something that is. Yeah, I'm lucky for sure. You are blessed with that. Yeah. But you're a good shot. Now, are you going to come to Vegas and drop 900s with Bodie Turner? Yeah.

I'm not either. But you don't care about that. Right. But as far as what you've done and what you do, you're a really good shot. You should consider giving yourself more credit there, but you're not going to. But, you know, that's just something that, you know, comes with learning. Like you were mentioning the wrist strap release. Yeah.

Dude, I was hunting out in Western Oregon, out in the strawberries in like 2006. Eastern Oregon. Eastern Oregon. Yeah. And I'm out there and I had the old Jim Fletcher. And man, on the bag, in practice, in camp. wad. Yeah. Wadding. Dude, we got out on an animal and I missed. Like, hi-ga! Like, full-blown karate chop. It was terrible. Yeah. Twice. Oh. Go back to camp and I'm like,

shit. What do I do now? Go back to the bags, wad them up. So I actually pulled out my zenith hinge. And I've shot a hinge for hunting ever since. Okay. I'm not recommending that for everybody. Right. Just like I don't recommend people run 200 miles at a time like you do. Yeah.

Yeah. Everything ain't for everybody. Right. I'm a firm believer and know your role. Yeah. So for me, the hinge was like home. So when I would draw back, I mean, like for me, because I'm not, you and I are not in the same conversation when it comes to hunting.

You are elite. I'm petite. And so, and so, but when I draw back, I tell myself on an animal every time. The antelope I got in Colorado this year, I'm like, you're not shooting, Greg. Just draw back. See how you're aiming. Because for me, it seems like no matter where I go, as soon as I come to draw on an animal, an earthquake happens.

Yeah. And it's off. Seismic. Yeah. And I'm like, all right, we're just going to see how you're aiming here. And if I'm aiming good, my release will. click. Yeah. Not because I make it. Oh, I see. So when I draw back, if I made me good enough, my form, because I've did it so many times, my form will just go click. And then I'm like,

oh, we're doing this. Bunk. Yeah. And we're good. That's not for everybody. But like I was telling you right before we went on air, if you are shooting a hinge or if you are shooting a thumb button, you got to be able to send it. Yeah. Because the animal ain't waiting. I'm a believer, like swing for defense, go for it. Like fall on your face, you'll figure it out. It's totally fine. I think there's a strategic way to do it wherein you lessen some of that, just like financial pressure, to perform in a way that you could lose the momentum you have if you don't perform. Yeah. And Bowen is fucking hard, dude. It's extremely hard. It is hard to produce. We do not talk about that Enough. It is like it's I get my ass kicked in some way all season many times. Yeah. You know,

and so to produce, to get a big bull on the ground is hard. It's extremely hard. It's extremely hard. Yeah. And to play this game, the hunting purest in me doesn't like what I'm about to say. Okay. If you want to make money in the hunting industry as a personality, you got to kill a lot. Yeah. You have like table stakes, you have to. It does, to some degree, bastardize is a strong word. Right. Whatever's less than that.

But it's like we're commercializing a thing that was never meant to be commercialized. It can be done correctly, and I really do believe that. I think a lot of guys up and are net negative. Yeah. And I don't like it. Right. Because it's going back to like, why do I do this is guys that are out there doing the wrong thing, portraying capital age hunting in a way that's not palatable to a non-hunting voting public,

you guys are going to kill it for all of us. Definitely. You should be a lot more conscious about how you do this. And I have like, dude, I'm a mediocre bow hunter myself at best. I love it. I am like in the process of trying to get much better at it. I saw some good animals on your page. Dude, I try hard.

Yeah, you had some success. Well, thank you. There's a, there's 10x more failures. But it's it's like a, I think everybody. has a responsibility to present hunting in a way that is net positive for the future of the lifestyle and the sport and the resource. And like, if you're not doing something to further the continued excellence of the North American model of wildlife conservation, you're not in the game. Because if you do something stupid, you could really hurt this for all of us. So be conscious of what you're doing.

And I have at different points in my career, like publicly picked fights, because I just believe that, like in my core. Okay, I can just, the grip and grins are great. Obviously, I got them all over here. There's, you know, nobody offended in here, but I understand who's looking at my page. And so somebody who doesn't understand hunting

looks at a grip and grin, it's gonna be interpreted differently. You know, we're smiling with a dead animal. So I sometimes don't even ever put up a grip and grin. I put up truly what's the most important part of the hunt, which is all of it. The journey. The journey. The, you know, just try to share different aspects of it.

Yeah, I try to kill an animal because that's what we do. You know, that's, but that's not, that's not everything. Yeah. That's just a small part of it. But we're so used to only having one chance, like at the bow rack, we should just go put a kill shot up on the board. We don't get a chance to tell a story. So you just put your fucking kill shot on the board.

And so that's kind of what we started doing. with social media because that's what we were used to. We didn't, we didn't, we just had a bragboard. That's it. So now I'm just like, no, I got to do a better job of explaining this lifestyle and explaining why it's important and explaining why it's powerful to me. And if we do that, I mean, I think it can make a big impact. I agree.

On, on non-hunter, you know, the antis are never going to get it. The non-hunters, that's, they can understand, you know, and, yeah, I think by doing it right, man we have a big opportunity with you know social media gets shit on you know hunter as influencers get shit on all the time and it's like fuck i don't know i think this could be a good thing you know of course you can always use social media for for shitty stupid reasons but that's not us that's not what we're going to do no and the the grip and grins and all that stuff i like we've we've talked about it on the podcast there was there was a time there in hunting where like hunters were shying away from grip and grins and all that and I almost looked at it as being defensive towards the

antis like why are we going to give them that yeah why are we going to give them that you know what I mean like we are I am proud of yes I am proud of this accomplishment now I'm a fan of the grip and grins but like you're saying telling the story so what social media allows us to do that the bragboards didn't allow is tell the story yeah so Brady trail Omar all these guys are very well written and very well spoken. And hunting, when they talk about hunting, even if it's in a in a story post or whatever it is, they're so good with words that people can feel their passion for it and their respect for it and all of that stuff. And I think that's the hugely important part of social media is that part of it is sharing the passion, the story, the struggles, all of it,

and why that picture is a grip. What it means. Yeah. Why are you smiling with that? Yeah. Well, here's the story. Why? Right. And I think it's important. important that, you know, hunting, hunting, it's not, you know, we're not sports betting. We're not, we're not playing golf posting a picture of our scorecard. Like those things are so simple and so like passive and so. Nothing's dying. Exactly. And so, you know, the one thing that I, the one thing that I will give on that, on that

hunting side of grip and grins and all that stuff is we do have to carry a level of responsibility further than most other activity. because at the end of the day a life is being taken. And we have to explain why it was taken and what we're using it for. Right. It doesn't have to be as well spoken as Brady, Trail, or Omar. But there at least needs to be a reflection of this is why and this is how it's being used.

And it can be as simple as that. And that is one thing that I do agree with going forward that hunters can continue to do a better job up is fucking posts the grip and grin, post the shit out of them. I love it. I love the success. pictures, all that stuff. But we do carry a weight of responsibility because of what our lifestyle is. It's a lot deeper than being a golfer. Yeah. Being a sports better. Like there's there's things going on that are just deeper and we just be responsible about it. For new bow hunters getting into the

sport because right now we have made bow hunting pretty cool. I mean it's not just we me and you just the industry or this time and place. It's like bow hunting. We've always known as badass. We've always loved the challenge of it, but a lot of other people are realizing it too now. So for a new bow hunter, what's the key to you think for them having a positive, successful journey?

You know, I really don't know. That's a good question. What led you to most of your success? Persistence. Just being out there? Yep. Screwing up, learning. That's it.

Tenacity? Is that what it is? called or being tenacious or whatever yeah that goes a long way do not give up yeah yeah stick with it you know i know i had a lot of failures when i first started that's what bow hunting is yeah it's a lot of failures but when you when you finally it does come together for you man alive doesn't feel good nothing better no