Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 209 - Sheep Camp with B.C. Legend, Reg Collingwood

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Join us for a conversation with the guides behind Cam’s recent British Columbia Sheep Hunt. Reg, Kurt and Ester talk about the difficulties of hunting sheep in British Columbia, how they got into guiding, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Intro: Reg Collingwood Sheep Hunting History 00:03:18 – What Reg Loves About Sheep Hunting 00:07:04 – What Makes a Good Sheep Hunter: Relentless Pursuit 00:11:26 – Lessons from Legendary Hunter Charlie Abou 00:13:00 – Ester’s Ram 00:14:25 – Developing Skills as a Sheep Hunter 00:16:44 – Reg’s 7 Guided Hunts & Hunting with a Rifle vs a Bow 00:21:13 – Larry McKenzie’s Moose Hunt 00:23:22 – A Hunt Reg Will Never Forget 00:32:01 – Ad Break (Montana Knife Company & Hoyt) 00:33:53 – The Hay Days of Stone Sheep Hunting 00:35:49 – Predator Management in Sheep Health 00:39:02 – Harvesting old Ram’s for Herd Health 00:43:12 – How Reg Got Connected with Ester & Kurt McGee 00:48:56 – Being a Successful Guide in the Mountains & Tough Conditions 00:53:25 – A Passion for Unforgiving Country 00:55:17 – Deciding on a Bulletproof Plan to Get Cam’s Ram 01:59:30 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off  Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off ALP: https://alppouch.com/ use code CAM for 10% off your first order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code CAM for 20% off & Free Shipping

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energy and boom i had them talking saying the way that i'm moving so reckless that is a part of my mind i've been blessed with giving my blood so i am relentless all right well this is a remote setting for the keep hammering collective and i'm with some amazing people right here we've just ran up wound up a stone sheep hunt in northern bc and uh i just have the honor and privilege of sitting down with some of the best people men and women that i know but also some of the most successful sheep hunters that I've learned about. This is like a new world for me. So I want to hear some stories from these legends here. This is Wes Yoder. He's from Colorado. We've hunted together. This is Reg Collingwood. Just a legend from what I understand. And I've done

some research. I did some research last night. I looked up a lot of stuff on you. And it's just amazing. And then Esther and of course, Kurt here McGee. And we're just going to talk sheep hunting for a few minutes. but I don't know, Reg, I'd like to know how long you've been sheep hunting, first of all? 50 years. 50 years. Yeah, pretty well. I think because when we took over the Spats easy, that was nine. Let me see.

It's in the 70s. Okay. Yeah. I think like 75, 76. Howard Pache, we ran it for Howard Pache. Okay, 76. And then how long did you run it? Ever since then, 76, Howard was just finishing up some clients.

Doug Campbell went in, ran Colfish, and I actually went to Last Louis. And we built 10 frames there. up the meadow from the camp. There was the big horse meadow, and it was a good horse pasture there. And I took horses in there, and that's where we, I was hunting there first, then went back to coalfish and Doug,

dug it hunted, coalfish and went to, like, Ram Creek and stuff. But then didn't have a lot of clients then, But, yeah, that was sort of our start to make a deal with Howard Pace. Mm-hmm. And his kid wrangled for us the first couple of years. And I had some of the older native guys I hunted with Peter Dennis, Charlie Abu. Those two guys, particularly in Alex Jack.

He was the chief. have met some tan and then we that's those guys kind of showed me like the sheep especially Charlie Charlie Boo was a famous sheep guy I gotcha well what did you love about sheep hunting back then you know you get out in the mountains and you know when you get on top of the ridge and you look and there's some ramps there and some goats over there and the weather's good yeah you know it doesn't get much better in this right and no you know real wilderness settings was because you had traveled so far and or flew in and then height or the road yeah for a day just to start right looking yeah so and then so the adventure yeah yeah

and then when we took that area over they said oh there's maybe a hundred horses at Highland Post, you know, we don't really know. So we rounded some up and took the old ones out. Gotcha. And that was back with the guy like name of Jackie Cherry and Teddy Allison. He came in, Mervyn Zimmerley, and these are all Chocolton guys. They were a pretty good horseman. right sure hmm and so we talk about Highland Post so how big is the area that you took over

and like tell me like Highland Post that's that's a big camp right yeah is that a honey camp or is like did mail come in there too or well it was a trading post before okay 1926 to 1929 and then of course the collapse of the economy in the world kind of put a stop to that but the Highland Bradley originally went in a competition with the Hudson Bay Fur Company. Oh. So up in Scotty's Meadows, that was Scotty Dennis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Scotty Dennis used to work for Hudson Bay Fur Company. So he had a trading post at about almost 20 miles up. Yeah, yeah. There was big meadows there too. You know, moose meadows, that's about as far up you could start. wintering horses oh i see so you used to winter them up there and then moving back to highland which was a lower snow belt and wintering area so as a season progressed you'd move down yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah so i actually went in and wintered horses at uh highland post when was that like in the 70s yeah probably 77 okay yeah 78 and again how big was that area then like that you were hunting? That area, I think, is 3,200 square miles. Whoa. Something like that, 35. Decent stretch. Yeah.

It's a whole stretch of country. Yeah. A whole of spats easy part, whatever. It's a pretty good size. Yeah. Is it? It's about 80 miles across and it takes like just three straight days just to ride to Highland Post.

Yeah. Yeah, we looked out some old Fred Bear stuff because in 57 he killed what was the world record stone sheep. Right. And it was 158 and an 8th. And so we added up like where he rode on the, they are on horses. They rode 500 miles in like over a month. Yeah. Yeah.

But that was just the way it was back then, I guess. Yeah. He got that ram, um, he grew up the Bates Valley and into Connors Creek. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what, so for people like you and maybe Fred Bears, like, what, what makes a good sheep hunter and this country is unforgiving? It's tough on men, tough on women, tough on everybody. But what makes it, what makes somebody good in the sheep mountains? I always, you know, relentless pursuit. That was kind of one word. I always go. Yeah. Joe Clutch. Yeah. I always saw him at the sheep show and he goes,

what do you do? And I said, you just keep going. Keep going. Relentless Pursuit. And he always thought that was pretty cool. And, you know, you go, well, if I get over there and if we get something, we may not make it off the mountain. Well, we'll make it off the mountain, but make Timberline. And sometimes you got to stay out.

you didn't have a sleep bag or anything, but you try and get to where you can build a fire. Yeah, I bet. That's a, those are long nights. I'm sure. I'm sure. That's the one thing that Kurt has adopted like that mindset too, because no matter how bleak it got on our hunt or was seemingly bleak, you just keep going. Yeah. It's only over when you quit.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm sure you've seen a lot of men quit back there on the hunt, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's, I, well, and then the thing is, is to go, well, if we just get up there, I think, you know, you just kind of keep coaxing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then if your sheep hunting horses are actually a good asset, right? Yeah. And that was the one thing about the spats. It's easy, too. A lot of places you can get horses.

Even though it looks super rough, like over at Ram Creek, you can get them up. And valleys. Yeah. Yeah. And that, you know, at least a timber line. Yeah. Well, even like that Fred Bear picture, he's holding that ram and you look at the background in the rocks and hear all the horses all tied up behind and you know he's taking them way up there.

Yeah. The backpack stone sheep hunt is hard. Yeah, that's the next one. Yeah, I did a few of those. Yeah. Maybe in two, you know, some people are allergic to horses. So you have that danderer. That's what you're going to do.

Yeah. So you have to backpack it. That makes it even tougher. Yeah. So it's, yeah. So that's how I sort of got into the spatsy. and then Highland Post was actually owned by a lawyer in town Lawrence Perry and he eventually sold it to us. But he also owned the coalfish property, but the Nature Trust bought that property and that was 230 acres.

It really didn't fit their criteria for wildlife critical habitats. 230 acres, like small? Well, it took him part of the airstrip in the camp. Oh, I see. Okay. So a key part of that. Yeah, well, there was a lot of sheep hunts went out of the coalfish. But later on, when we took it over, we had to build a

camp at Bug Lake up the valley, which was better in the horse pasture. Didn't take, you know, the horses kind of were more in the middle of the big valley from horse pasture. And then going out for sheep was actually a little bit closer in. When the coalfish camp was the original Tommy Walker camp. Yeah, that was Tommy Walker. And that's where Fred would have hunted out of. I think he would have started. Yeah, he was there. And the Matzintan people used to come camp there okay yeah Alex and all them used to come there in camp up top what did you learn like from Charlie Abu well he he would go he was excellent and see it's hard to explain but those

guys were in tune with what was in the bush because they they were just actual hunters so he could go and he go oh you know bull moose He's in there. Him sleeping, you know? Yeah, yeah. I remember he had a guy from Michigan. There was a clump of trees. Charlie goes, oh, yeah, have a bull moose in there.

The guy's going, well, let's go get him. And he goes, oh, no, I'm going to sleep in. And this guy's pacing around, we got to get him. And Charlie goes, well, him. get up and I'm going to get up and eat, you know. That was just at the beginning of the run. Anyways, sure enough, that bull got up, came out, and said, no, now we can get him, you know.

And he did it, you know. Just a connection to the land that he just knows. Right. And then like the sheep, he showed me where the sheep, and if they're not there, look on that end of the range, and they like to be there. Or like that SETIA country and stuff, you know, city means big mountain, and it is big, big. But Esther got a big ram there. Yeah, some years ago?

That was like, what was that, 10 days in the rain or whatever? The thing won't get funny at 50 huts. Whoa. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Nice old ram?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was an adventure. Long ram. Yeah. Yeah. It was.

Yeah. But over 40? Oh, yeah. He was. Hey. Like three? Yeah. Yeah.

Four or four? Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. She just keeps it quiet. Yeah. Keeps her secrets.

I know. Curves telling me the stories. I don't like, I don't know. She's definitely tougher than me. She's like, It's a tough than most of us here, but yeah, and kills big Rams and cooks. And big caribou. And skins bears probably, right?

Yeah. The best skinner by far in camp. No. I know I got in trouble for I left like one little piece of nothing on. One little piece of nothing. It's enough to be a family. Yeah. It was pretty neat when I started.

Actually, I was wrangling for Esther. so that was a boss yeah yeah she was my boss yeah I was out started I wrangled her yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah were you good a good sheep hunter from the gigo or did you have to develop the skill like most people well I always had pretty good eyes but I always and like Charlie told me like the best thing is always approach on the top got get up above and come down and and that always seemed to be kind of the golden rule that work good. It was always, well, maybe we can get close this way or come under him. That doesn't work not very often.

Right. It's usually like, they blew out, they go, um, after after after they go. But, you know, and then, unless it's really cool, late in the evening, then you'll get down. then you'll get down drafts but usually approaching from above was always what I've you know put the effort to get up and above and come around it always paid off in the long right and sometimes that's a big effort to I mean you're circling big ranges sometimes or

yeah and it takes yeah but it's worth it a little further and I think we're gonna you know go down that spine and we should be above yeah yeah so and then you can kind of get the lay of who's there too right was there a tactic to peeking over that ridge the i mean obviously you're not jumping up on a rock to look but what was your tactic for for making trying to find the rams below you without them seeing you yeah slow slow look stay still look a little more yeah yeah A little more. Oh, I see the top of the head. You know, just that.

So maybe we'll just wait and they'll get up. So that kind of thing. Don't brush it. Press it. Yeah. Easier said than done, though. Yeah. After all that work, you're ready to make something happen usually.

But that's where the speed is so critical. Slow is better, always. Yes. Yeah. So how many Rams have you been involved in killing? Well, I, so I was, I was, because I've done a few doll and been on a few deserts. And I'm going to say, we kind of figured out somewhere around 125. It's a lot of Rams.

Because I know one year I did like seven. I did like seven while myself. So, you know, it's always on, you know. It's either on or gutting or trying to get young guys and go, okay, just take him and go up there and put him on that rock, put him on that rock. And then, you know, yeah. Because they need to do it. Yeah.

And then they, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, so that's kind of, yeah, I always like sheep on. Yeah, I bet. But then, you know, then you get, you kind of get old. And then it was in my mid-50s, I'm like, well, do one maybe this year, maybe two, you know. Yeah. Of those 125, roughly, how much? many bow kills.

Slim got one for the guy, one guy, but I had a couple of bow hunters for those, and actually they were all misses. It's tough. And then I was packing one of the guys' rifles and he goes, oh, give me my

rifle. Well, yeah, he's out of bow range and he's kind of like moving out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how a lot of bohuns go, I think. Yeah. Too like that with goats too.

Yeah. Yeah. I think people work so hard and to get, you get heartbroken because you're so close. Then that rifle kind of makes amends real quick. Yeah. The urge gets pretty strong. Yeah. When you see a big ram kind of just.

eased over the top there within rifle range. I had to promise these guys that said, we don't need a rifle. Trust me. But there was, there's times where I was like, I don't know if it's going to happen because it does feel impossible in this country with these conditions to find an old ram. And then how am I going to get in bow range? So I can see why people might cave into the pressure.

Because everybody wants to take a ram home. I get it. But I had a problem. I mean, these guys knew that, I mean, we didn't bring the rifle up. Well, that's what I was like. you're sure you want to do it with the bow. I'm taking the bear gun and that's it. Yeah.

There's no hunting rifle coming. But it tests you because it's tough. And you know, we're 100 yards from the ram I ended up killing and that doesn't do much with the bow. You've got to get closer. I've hunted with Cam before and I told you before we came up here that no, he won't touch your rifle. You bring up a rifle to Cam. You've looked at you like you've lost your mind.

Yeah. Yeah. But it was confident he'd get done. These guys are more confident than I was at times. Yeah. Yeah. Well, to be honest, a lot of guys would come and say, yeah, I'd like to, you know, hunt a goat or hunt a sheep with my bow. And I go, shh.

Oh. First thing I ask, like, how far can you shoot a bow? Now go, well, I like to be under 40. That's always nice. Under 40? Well, if we can use rocks then. Maybe a spear? Yeah.

And yeah. I found that most of the guys that were bow hunting, I did guide. Larry McKenzie for moose and he got a moose at 63 yards but he was just like confident yeah but then you know McKenzie targets he was yeah he just and he got a goat with us but my nephew of Chris and his one of the guys that worked for him I also got him a moose so I got two moose back to back on ice hot. I remember Larryson went, six, three yards, and then the moose walked out into the lake,

reared up, and pooh. I went, boy, hey, you know, we look at each other who's going out there. Somebody's swimming. Somebody's going out there. And it was kind of like, well, rush. Yeah. So, yeah, here, give me a rope and away I went up to here, tied it on the moose and pulled it. Then, of course, we all, he helped me butcher it up.

Yeah, that's good. Piece by piece out of the water, because I can't pull a moose out. No. Yeah, it was just. Maybe this guy could, but that's my idea. It was like, yeah. Yeah. And then his, the fella is the other guy.

We got that boost So 17 yards I grunting him in Nice And you know I could hear But I couldn't see him It was looking

And then Boop He pops out Right Right there Yeah 17 Fon

Perfect Yeah And it was on dry ground Oh nice Not a huge bowl But it's a bowl but it's a bowl. Yeah.

The boat. Right. Yeah. So. And that's an accomplishment. Yeah. Bocails in this country, tough to come by. Yeah.

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Head to Alpouch.com and use code can for 10% off your first order. Do you have a hunt over the 50 years that just stands out? I mean, all these hunts are special for their own reasons, but do you have one that, Like it's just something that you'll just never forget. Well, okay, one I had, because I was thinking about a spear, was Richard and Rosemary Dean, and we were out at Ram Creek. And I went up and I spotted this ram up there. And I said, that's a pretty nice ram real dark and stuff. So went up, way, way up. And that was steep, steep, steep, way up there. And I got above him and he goes, there. There's a

There's something wrong. He was using a drop bolt rifle. Okay. One shot. Drop bolt. And, well, it's a drop block, really, right? With a lever. And he goes, the sprang's broke.

Inside. And the Rams, you know, down below us. And he's feeding out to us. And I'm like, okay. I love my spring in my other pants Okay What do we do? Okay.

So we take the leatherman tool Take these screws out and stuff And then we got another turn on that spring With the leatherman tool. Put it back in And then we had to tap The firing pan back Because we couldn't drop it

that seems yeah it seems like a good yeah it seems like a good so we had uh luckily he had a

kitten caboodle you know those little with the blind or you know cable cable

and it's got a little blunt hand so we're what is a kitten caboodle for I've basically I've just heard the term

I don't even know what it is well it's a kit with all the caboodle It's a week one for goose's barrel. It almost sounds like soup.

Yeah. Yeah, but it's a little cleaning kit that you can carry around. It's got little patches, got a cable run through for your barrel. Yeah. And we were tapping, tap and tap and tap and tap and tap. And we finally got the bolt blocked down. How long did all this take, by the way? Oh, we were there 45 minutes.

A hour and the sheep was moving up. moving up closer and closer. Pretty soon he's so close, so close. So I said, what do we do? I said, I'm going to get my hiking poles extended as far as I can, and I have some tape. I'm going to tape an old-timer knife that had a blade like that. And I said, you're going to get out on top of that rock.

and I said, I got some boulders. And now that sheep comes underneath. I'm going to drop these boulders on his back of his head and it should stun him enough. And then you, you get him with spear. Seems like a great idea. Right? And this was serious.

And I had a guy with me, Trevor Schooner. Schneider that actually went through the guide school. And he lives in Alberta now, but he was just like, he was just a rack. He was going, oh, and I said, yeah, and then you and Trevor, you got to like tackle the sheep. Tackle a sheet and then we're going to stab him. And, you know, rock them, stab them, tackle them on paper. It sounds perfect. It sounds perfect.

So, but because we just, we tried, actually tried the rifle and it didn't, it didn't work the first time. So we had to tap it back again, you know. So I'm actually like taping, taping the knife onto the icon pole, right? Yeah. I'm making a spear. Right. Yeah. Yeah, do it.

And I'm kind of with my file, get this sharp. And anyways, so Richard's over there going, you know, and he gets a shell and puts it up. And he says, well, we can try it again. I said, okay, he said, it's going to be one shot. And if it goes, I don't know if it's. going to go. So I'm like, okay. I said, if it, if you miss or whatever, the rock and spirit are totally out. And he, so he kind of slides down and he, you know, I said, okay, and then we're all praying, please work, please work, please work. We put the screws and everything back in, you know,

to this drop block thing and then it went off. Nice. And he hit the sheep. The sheep just kind of started going and I went, okay. He goes a little more, a little more and then a little more and then he just kind of

down. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great story. That one I remember. It was Richard and Rosemary Dean and she didn't climb up.

She was watching from the bottom and she was, what were doing? We're there forever. We're up there forever. And she's like, well, how come you're not getting the sheep?

Yeah. And I'm like, well, we had a little malfunction. Yeah. Yeah. So she overcame. Yeah, we overcame. That was a solution to every problem, is that?

Right. Right. And you know, luckily we had that Leatherman tool, because the secret was, We had it. Take that spring out and turn it low for some of the mechanism and then having that kit and caboodle.

Otherwise, we never would get that firing pin because it's in the breach. And you couldn't, because that pins out. And the spring was to, when you lever it, to pull it back. Yeah, it wasn't working. until we turned it again and locked it. And then, you know, we, we, yeah. I said, don't bring that rifle anymore.

No kidding. He said a really good story. I really wish it would have ended the other way, though. Is it the fear of the rock? Yeah. Oh, Reg, you missed him with the problem. Yeah. Throw the spear.

Yeah. Good stuff. Not a balanced spear either, you know. I'm sure. I'm sure. But I think it would have made it. We had probably, I'm going to say, a 25% chance of maybe getting a sheet. Because he was coming to go right underneath this straight off deal, right?

And I had the rocks up there, you know, like this big. Yeah. Did just kind of... Different grain rocks? Yeah. Yeah, hit him with the heavy. Was he just by himself? Then that ram?

That ram was by himself. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that one always stuck with me. I was like 1994, I think. Okay. Just kind of think so.

A few days ago. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. They still got a hold of me and we, this. visit and they come to the guides convention sometimes. They didn't come this year because of some reason. I don't know why.

Excuse me. Sorry. That's okay. Yeah. When do you think has been the heyday of stone sheep honey? It seemed like, well, from the stories I've heard this year, it's pretty rough. Pretty hard for people out there. We did okay.

But when has been like you thought the heyday of it? Well, I think there was a few. I know some of the hay days. days was like 50 you know in the 50s 60s was really good the 70s was good 82 was a die-off winter or winter die off and it was a die-off in Alaska also like all pretty it was I just particularly remember 82 I even talked to Miles Prattier he thought that there was a at that time he said, yeah, there's definitely a drop.

Is that a biologist or? No, he just had that area of Delzell's Hall County. But he flew all over and he knew where everything was wintering. And there was definitely a drop in the capacity of sheep wintering on slopes. They just, the numbers weren't there. So then there's there's been a few others think about five years ago now. I know that there was a winner kill. Well, there was one all the way up in the Yukon, Clahani, Alaska Range.

They shut the Alaska Range down. So I know a guy had guides there and they just five years shut down. Right. Let it recover. But it recovers if you give it time. What key does predator management play in sheep hurt health? Pretty important for sure.

Do you get the wolves out of there in the winter? Yeah. Wolves were one thing in the winter and then wolverine. So you want to travel those. so some of the latest stuff that Wolverines are they're killing sheep oh yeah oh I didn't realize that

yeah huh lambs too yeah yeah one one one wolverine over in Williston in that study there

he was hunting a bluff where the sheep were coming to winter and they kind of got in a tough winter they kind of will get stuck on a bluff or something and they're not moving very far and they can't because there's too much deep snow either side so they're kind of in there

and that wolverine had killed three three sheep off that one particular bluff how do they kill them they just jump on them hang on by a hold and the neck yeah or if they shake them off and wolverin's back on i see i have a video of a wolverine killing a caribout man and it's unbelievable it's like it's like a fly. He shakes it off and back on the head. That would be, that would not be fun. No.

Like a miniature grizzly on steroids. Yeah. Jeez. Well, greens are totally under us, man. Their muscles are just rocks. You skin them out and their muscles are just like, it's crazy.

Really? Dense and probably more strength per square pound. Yeah. A fair pound. Per pound? Maybe. But yeah, that's amazing. Yeah.

Bears, you know, grizzly bears kill them. Yeah, we saw grizzly tracks basically on the top of almost every ridge we were on up in sheep country. I mean, they were up high. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And Eagles. Yeah, Eagles. Yeah, eagles.

Yeah. The lambs. The last. thin form sheep summit that was on in Alaska, I think it was an anchorage. I didn't get to go to that one, but Bill Jacks told me that a lot of the work in Alaska, the Eagles and Wolverine were more of the apex predator than even wolves. Really? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah, and grizzly bears, I know they've killed some sheep. I went after a moose the next day. And I looked down and I kind of put my scope on it. And I go, that looks like a sheep laying out over a rock above across from camp. And he had like a five, six-year-old ram. And that was one of the ramps that was in there kind of leading that group. Yeah, he was laying on the rock.

Wow. Yeah, big, big bear. Really got them, huh? Yeah. We were talking about this up on our hunt about how important it is to have an older ram to lead the younger. Yeah. And so we were saying like a scenario was the ram I killed was nine.

There was an eight year old with it. There's if you'd kill the eight year old, there's no guarantee the nine year old survives winter. So now there's that there's no. there's no older ram to lead. Right. You know, and we saw a case where there was these 10 sheep running around and there was no old animal there really no old ram there.

And they seem like they're just covering miles looking for where we should be. Yeah. What are we supposed to be doing? So it's like very important to take that oldest animal there for the hurt health. Yeah. It seems like does that, does that? Yeah. I mean, you know, because like if you have a seven or eight year old, he's.

been to all the places he needs to go yeah um for winter for rut and where we're ever's going to move to right yeah but if they'll have that then if they don't have that if you're not going to have a yearling or a two-year-old that kind of knows well here's seven the night year old rams they're they're they're they're they're the main breeders too right right the most stamina with the older rams they kind of get even though they're bigger they kind of they kind of they can't keep up with them younger Rams and they tend to kind of how fat the one I killed was. Exactly. A big sway back

and just, yeah, where them younger Rams there. You will, when I say younger, like that seven, eight year old ram, he's your you know, he's the one that's kind of the most important to your head. Yeah. So some of the, then you'll see

like some old Rams to laying off and I see where they get really bad teeth. and they have a lot of decay or abscesses like say on a 12-year-old or something. I mean, they're, they don't want to get bothered. And I don't even think, I think they maybe don't even really partake in the rut too much. Because they're trying to survive. Yeah, they have.

I always used to take and check all the teeth. And I've taken some pretty grand teeth out of sheep. I understand. I suppose it's big on the guides part too, like when you roll in on a group of rams and you're looking at a group and even, you know, say the eight-year-old might be significantly bigger than the 10-year-old. You know, the 10-year-old might be broom dried off and you want to kill the eight-year-old because it looks like a bigger ram, but you know, and like for the guide, like it's like, no, you know, that's the right thing to do by the band and by the herd overall is to take that much older ram. that's probably not going to make the winner anyways, you know, and he's not doing any of the breeding anymore and let that younger, better-looking ram live

and do his job and lead the band of rams, right? But it's having the self-control to be able to say, no, you know, we've got to leave, we've got to leave that one. Not, you know, for the overall herd health rather than just what you want to harvest, right? It's for the good of the herd, not for our own self, you know. Well, you were pretty adamant about that we were really only hunting the old ram, you know. And like even though we had two legal rams and with the bow was like it'd be hard if you had,

I think it would through this scenario out. I said, what if the nine year olds at 70 yards? The eight year old's at 30. I'm supposed to, you know, let this shot go. And it's like, yeah, that's what we need to do. Because as, you know, Kurt's been here for a while. so he's supposed to know and do it right. And he, of course, is committed to doing it right.

But if the guides who've been here for quite a while aren't doing it right, then that doesn't really set the tone for the young guys. You know what I mean? Somebody has to lead right correctly and shut the way. Yeah. And that was how I was talking to you, right? How did you get hooked up with these Yehuis? Well, that's true.

through many hail right yeah he goes he goes hey there's this girl she can really she can ride and rid i i know she can skin because i see her skin and bears all the time in alberta at a bear camp and i don't know and then she can she can ride and i think she cooks good i said oh okay so i uh i don't know hired her she came and i was like holy smokes she really knows what she's doing and then I was like, actually said they should actually, yeah. Actually, probably one of the best guides and overall hands I've ever had. Really? Oh, yeah.

Had a good teacher. Yeah. Hands down. How old were you at that time? Silly. You? Yeah, that's her. 18.

18. Really? Oh, yeah. I guess so. That's been a while back. Well, how did you get started? Like, why are you in an Alberta bear camp, skin and bears? Well, I didn't grow up in a family of hunting.

It was kind of crazy. My oldest brother got the bug, and a friend of ours got him into hunting, and then he started working for a guy at Spring Bear Camp, an outfitter. And one year, he's like, you should come along. It's like, I think they need a bear skinner. He's like, I'll ask if you can come along. So I went along as just the camp hand, and I did all the bear skidding. And yeah, and then it just kind of.

kind of went from there. And then through other guides, oh, I just, it was like my dream job. So yeah, through other guides. And I ended up up here. And I never thought I'd leave Alberta, but you're pretty hooked on these B.C. mountains. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you grow up in Alberta? Yeah, I did. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. And then you got, you were here. And then when did you show up?

So I always, I was a couple of years after Esther, Esther was here. I started out working for, for another outfit or random punis. And yeah, and I remember hearing Brandon talking about this girl next door, working at the right over at the outfit next door. And he was telling another wrangler, he was telling her about it. And I'm thinking to myself, gee, I've got to meet this chick. She sounds pretty good. Forget about that other wrangler.

I want to go and meet her. And anyways, then I had an opportunity to come and work for Reg and kind of took it. And he originally getting here, my dad used to have a booth next to the corner. in the day in Dallas and he kind of had kept that connection and anyways so then when I was ready to start doing some garden and or trying to do some hut anyways at that point outside of Australia dad had made the connection back through Clay Ridge's um the Regge's nephew there and um anyways and then Clay lined me up with uh with the food dropper Brandon for his dad's and then and then with Reg and then yeah I basically

It was actually right here We were staying in the This was a bunk house for a staying in And that was the very first time I was seen her I was camped in the bedroom there And Esther turned up at midnight We had all the crew was staying here

And I come out of the room right there And I look and here's this blonde sleeping on the couch And I'm like, who's that? And then like that day, yeah, as sure as eggs It was Esther and then like that day We loaded all the horses on the liner And headed to the mountains And that was kind of the beginning of it

and all of her around around the outside. Yeah. Yeah. You weren't hard enough on. She should have been like, get those horses. She's pretty good at, yeah, most of me around, that's for sure. Well, I've hunted with Kurt now. I've obviously haven't hunted with Esther, but if she's as good as you say,

I know how good he is. This is a dynamic duo right here in the mountain. Yeah, they were. They were running bug lake most of the time. Yeah. That's a pretty big camp then. Yeah. They were always on the radio going, yeah, we had a couple of bulls today.

And I'm going, oh, jeez. You guys always did. You're getting it done out there. They're getting it done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, was that, what did you think about that, seeing like, some young guys,

young couple come in and just taking ass. Well, and then, you know, of course they'd ride, and I'd be, like, crippled getting off my horse, and they're always, like, laughing, and I'm like, I can hardly move. Esther's tearing around all over, showing off, doesn't bother her. we made sure you had a stump to get on yeah and short horse I was getting

stiffer and stepher by the year I was going oh man yeah we were truly blessed to be able to have somebody like Reg and his brother Ray back in the day to learn from you know what I mean

they were just the best teachers ever and they just yeah they were good to us they gave us plenty of rain to make mistakes and do all that and but yeah that was a huge part of us becoming who we are was the effort that they put in for sure definitely well you i don't know sounds like you taught them a lot but i'll just say like with kurt out there i can't believe and i'm sure us was the same but i can't believe how many things you have to be good at to be a good guide in these mountains an outfit or but like just

just breaking down animals uh you know skin in a man out the hooves the I mean that's everything it's just like horses it's then the hunting on top of everything then the work you know packing heavy loads it's like there's so many different things that some people have a hard time mastering one of them you know one of them in life and to be good in this country you have to be you have to be the best at almost so many things you know, surviving, building fire. I mean, it's just like not, it's just never ending. I'm just so impressed with what it takes to be successful out here.

And so you taught them well. And it's incredible. Yeah. It's just like running the horses. You got to. And then camp. You got a generator. So you got to have some mechanical apt to do.

Well, the fridge isn't working. Yeah. Propane. What do we do now? Oh, yeah. Let's put in a new thermostat. You know, and that might help at work. And what we did?

Okay. Or. Put in sheaves them. Yeah. And it's just like, okay, horses get injured and stuff like that. So, you know, doctor in the horses. Mm-hmm. Clearing trail.

Trail maintenance. Trail maiden. We were in some country that seemed like there hadn't been much done. probably not down there no no no I was believer in cutting trail out that's for sure yeah I mean especially with the horses

I mean well I don't know we probably for a horse to push through all that brush that buck brush no big deal but for a backpack hunter when you got brush pulling on you you're already loaded down yeah it's it makes a difference if that trail hadn't been worked over in years. Yeah, that's a friction, huh?

Yeah, friction the whole way. Yeah, you've got friction. We just slides down on that trip. And when you're fighting friction the whole time for days, hours, weeks, it'll wear you down. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah.

You. Yeah. I thought you guys maybe stay up above, but I guess not. I had to get from the bottom to the top somehow. Yeah. Kurt had to give them the whole experience. Yeah, he did. He did.

Twice. It was a test. Yeah, actually, I was, well, you guys were gone, I was up scouting for sheep in another area. And I ran into, like, up this trail. I didn't know where I was going. I was by myself. I cut out, there was one trail, went this way, went this way, so I went up. And then I ended up right in this big willow swamp, big willows.

I'm like, okay. I got in there a little bit and I went, hmm, I think I'll turn around and go climb a bluff. I'll back down the trail and get up above. And yeah, I wasn't, you know, quite sure where to go. But, you know, it was just more forest and stuff. But, yeah, it's, that's the thing with the north. There's a lot of brush, right?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. A lot of water and a lot of, I mean, we're getting rained on pretty much every day. It seems like thunderstorms. So everything is green and grows, but everything's wet. Yeah, it's awesome country. It is amazing. It's so beautiful, but so unforgiving too. Yeah, it is. Yeah, definitely to be tough or you're not going to last up here, right? Yeah, yeah. So that, and that's kind of, you know, yeah, in a nutshell, it's just, you just told, oh, next year will be better, you know. So it's. Yeah. But yeah, it's good. I've survived.

Yeah, you did. I'm thankful that there's young guys, like they're young for me and for you, these guys are young, you know. We have, you know, like a guy like Wes, it's, it's hard finding and they got, who. Who's that young man working for you? Phoenix. Yeah. So I mean, I like to see these guys like Wes is out there, busting his butt every day,

but still has his phone out videoing because he just loves, it's for no reason, just because he just wants to have that to look at later, but that passion, you can see that passion. If you don't have that passion for being out there, it's not gonna work. It is not gonna work. You have to love everything about it,

even the struggle, those sore feet days, those sore back days. And it's like, like finding those people it's like it's so to me it just like it's just stir something to me to see that and be like that okay there's there's a little sliver of bright future right there hopefully we can keep it going you know yeah and it's that the mindset of just hunting the mountain especially on a backpack hunt is the it's a lot more mental than physical sometimes i think and it just wears you down to the point where sometimes when you're sitting there for four days watching around across the canyon that you can't possibly get close to it with a bow,

you know? Yeah. It's like you're getting wet, you get rained on, you got sore back and legs and knees and blisters. It's like, why is this fine? Yeah, and every morning, you know, you've got to get out and clob up that mountain so you can live again and knowing that they're going to be on the other side. Yeah. Man, when it comes together, it's so worth it.

Yeah. Because you can even even when it doesn't, being out there is. something about it. Yeah. It's when you, when you're, we were watching the round for so long, you keep looking at different ways.

Oh, what if we did this? You know, but we knew that we bumped him one time where I screwed up. I had him at 32 yards and get an arrow in them, didn't get a shot. And that took us how many days to get back on them? Like seven.

Seven. Yeah. Wow. So, so we, I think it was Wes who said one night. He said something like, if we had to kill that.

around to survive, what would we do? And we all decided we would make sure whatever plan we had was perfect. We wouldn't be risking, bumping it again for another week. If we had to, if we had to survive, get that sheet meat to survive, we would like make sure the plan is bulletproof. So that's kind of what was our mindset, like not forcing it, not like trying to get tricky and like, well, what if it came down and sat by this little, there's like this little green spot on the side of that we called the Coliseum because it was so open. And like you can see for a million miles and they were right in the middle of it, those two old Rams. We're like, well, what if we went to that green spot like in the middle of the night or something?

In their shale all the way. Yeah. So you get in there. And they want to walk to us. Yeah. Well, we ruled out every possibility. Oh, man. We have a long time to do it.

We did. But it comes down to patience and just waiting for that right up, especially with the bow. There's just no room for error really. And when it took us seven or eight days to get, earn another chance. And then I was like, please do not stress up. The pressure is real then. Yeah. The first time it's, you know, it's intense.

And, well, we spent seven days for that first stalk until we got close. And then that didn't work out. And you're thinking, you know, seven days later making that second approach. And it is in the back of your mind like, is it going to happen or is it going to be another seven or eight days? Yeah. It's so hard to get close. That day, that day we killed, it was such a special day, but we were, us three going down and had a little ridge. They're kind of in the wide open still again, but we had a little, little bit of a ridge to work with.

Yeah. We're going down there. I was like, stop these guys. And I said, you know, I said, this is what we're supposed to be doing. This is what we are designed to do. This right here. And how lucky are we? Yeah.

And it was so, so amazing. And then it worked. Thank goodness. But it's just like just taking the time to appreciate. I mean, we all, I know I grew from this experience. My heart changed from being out of these mountains. I can't tell you how much I've changed from these 15 days and, you know, lucky enough to harvest this ram. But I would have changed even without the harvest, to be honest.

But we're so fortunate to, I'm so lucky that you, you know, mentored these guys. we are what we are right now. Wes is involved here. James is, we got this hunt with incredible photos and video. And it's so powerful. And it's like I get a little glimpse of what you've done your entire life. And it's just like I can't imagine how, you know, enrich your life has become because of this, this lifestyle. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, you know, my, I got two boys. And they both hunt. They like all that stuff too. They're not guides, but Mark always want to hunt for himself. You plant, I don't know, he might break something. Mark, right? He's, yeah, they like doing it.

Now he's instilled that in, you know. And they aren't good hunt as bicycles. Yeah. I took him out and hike, you know. Yeah. But, yeah. So I'm, you know, and they, you know, they always work. And that's an appreciative of that, how they turned out to work and make a living, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, I mean, it's been an honor hearing your stories, meeting you, and just. you and just learning more about like I said this lifestyle. I just I want to thank you so much and thank you guys too for everything you've done for for me and I feel so lucky that I had this opportunity so it wouldn't have happened without everybody sitting here.

I'm just a small part of it but man I'm I'm very grateful. Yeah, blessed. Yeah, it's good. You know when I came down before you guys left? Yeah. And you were practicing your shots and I went, oh, fine. Finally a bow hunter that can really shoot. That's when I left, I went, oh, yeah.

If they get within, he's going to get that. That's going to get around. If they get in, close enough, where some of the guys that I watch, I would watch them shoot and then go, whoo. Yeah. I'm not going to do. Yeah. But after the fingers crossed with some people.

Yeah. Oh, we always do that. elk camp when yeah we get archery hunters and you know they're always out practicing with their bow and we kind of make the the call on how close it has to be before we'll let up you yeah based on that we don't have to worry about cam but there's some yeah yeah it's a but it's still for having a 15-day hunt to come down to one shot yeah that's what it is yeah yeah it was great though i mean and can't believe the word. I'm happy.

No, it was a fantastic hunt. Definitely one of the best for me too. Definitely having a guy that would follow through all the way with the bow hunt and just not even consider picking up the rifle and being patient enough to just to tough it out. You know, tough it out is all you had to do. And through the bad weather and the good weather and the short supply of food

and all the different things that we had, yeah, That was one of the best. Wes eating all the candy bars. I mean, we overcame a lot. He's still better about that. He made me a trade on a candy bar, like a wonder bar for a... I don't know, but it wasn't a good trade.

He made it sound good, though, in the beginning. He did, yeah. Good salesman. But thank you guys. I appreciate everything. Thank you, brother. I mean, it's a great man. Awesome time.

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