Cameron Hanes - Keep Hammering Collective - KHC 213 - Grand Teton Picnic Recap

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

Join Cam and James for a conversation about completing the Picnic and the struggles and growths that came with it, more on Cam’s recent sheep hunt, and more!  The Grand Teton "Picnic" is an unofficial, self-supported human-powered endurance challenge and mountain triathlon that requires participants to bike, swim, and climb from Jackson, Wyoming, to the summit of the Grand Teton and back. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – On the list & Sheep Hunt Film Update 00:07:06 – James’ Level-Up in Fitness & What the Picnic is 00:11:32 – Doubts Going into the Picnic 00:13:55 – Problems at the Summit 00:20:13 – Swimming Across Lake Jenny 00:27:10 – Thankful for the People Who Helped Make it Possible 00:32:10 – A Tribute to James Friend Ben 00:36:40 – James’ Next Goal, Hardships of the Sheep Hunt & Tanner’s Moose Hunt 00:40:56 – Upcoming Colorado Mule Deer Hunt 00:43:16 – Mississippi Mudslide 00:47:33 – Iron Cowboy’s Criticism on Matt Johnson’s Project7 00:52:18 – Pushing Through Quitting When it Gets Hard 00:59:21 – Lindsey Clancy Case Thoughts 01:01:31 – Elk Season and Kam Canaday’s Bull 01:03:58 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM for 10% off optics Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 10% your order Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off 

Every step I take I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move it's so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. We're live.

Fucking camera 17. And 19. And 19. We got them all. Is 23 on? Oh, let me turn that on real quick. Okay. Okay, got it.

Good. This is not shit talkers weekly. This, what is this? We could still call it shit talkers. We could. Can't we? I think we call it picnic talkers weekly. Oh, Lord.

So we have a few to do like on the, on the honey-doos. We got to talk about your picnic. Yep. So that was a big. The reason why I want to talk about it now for sure is because after seeing like how good to shape you were in afterwards, like going into this hunt. So, yeah. So, I mean, you did. did you made some big changes so let's like we'll catch everybody up so this will be like a shit

talkers but we're also going to talk about your your big event that you did as self-supported the picnic or maybe you like had help but anyway we don't want you to get canceled by saying it's self-supported when it's not yeah careful people are say jrude be all over your ass i'm gonna get reported to wada wada you drag these balls in your phone yeah exactly But we don't say that anymore because we are changed. Changed people. Yes. So, yeah.

What else was on our list? The list? You said we had a couple of honeydews. Oh, well, you always have the honeydew list. Oh. I did talk to Rihanna today. Oh, really? Asked her if she's quitting or working or what are we doing.

So, yeah, she's going to work. That's good. Yeah, how's So tell me the timeline Because I've got so many Fucking questions on this film Including from Joe Oh really?

Yeah So what like what would you What's your timeline? I think I think realistically I mean October is also a slow month After hunting season

And I'm not going with you On this first hunt at least So yeah I mean Once you get back I think we could get A version done So

we can have review for like we know what's going on beginning of October. And then like we talked about maybe that's when we see that and we say, okay, we need to film these extra little scenes. Yeah. Some cutaways so that it's more than just a hunting film. And after that, I mean, I feel like end of October would be realistic. Yeah. Okay.

So I know I've seen a bunch of comments of like, when's the film? I'm like, holy shit guys. Yeah. But I know. I've started sorting footage and. Oh, have you good. Yeah. Yeah.

I've just been watching through it. And God, it's. Going back through and like the beginning of the hunt and knowing or not kind of knowing that I was ignorant of what was to come. Yeah. And then knowing how hard it was. I was like, I do not want to be right back there again. I know. Yeah.

I think it would be good. So I always wanted somebody to do this. And I don't know if we ever did it. But and I think I told Tanner this, but to watch every second of footage just so you know what's in there. Because sometimes we forget. Yep. We like sometimes I'll watch stuff and I'll be like, oh, fuck, I totally forgot all about that. Yeah.

But since we have it, I think to start and maybe make notes on like the strongest things. Yeah. So I am going through every second and then categorizing them into different folders. So it's like I know where to pull from, what days, things like that. Good. In case it does, the film gets like a little nonlinear for the chronological order or jump. it's easy to go and pull. Okay, I need this from this day, that kind of thing.

That's good. It'll make my life easier and longer, and it might take a little longer in the beginning, but it'll be worth it with all the footage we have. Yeah, because I think that's what kind of got us on the Cocodona is, I think. You mean the first one? Yeah. Broken.

Yeah. Because I think we missed a lot of good stuff or like we had multiple people filming and then didn't know what was in there because, oh, Branlon was filming too. Yeah. Yeah. The editor hated me. I use ketone IQ when I need to stay sharp for the long haul. Long runs, lifting, before I shoot my bow, even when I'm podcasting, anytime I want steady focus

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So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had the past couple of seasons head to sikshower.com grab a pair of zulu binos and use code cam for 10% off six hour zulu binoculars see more miss less keep hammering what i want to talk about too is so last year you filmed in winaha got your ass kicked you were you were not ready for a backcountry hunt so this year without knowing for sure how it was going to go and also how hard this hunt was which this hunt was actually way harder than Winnihan last year. Like probably five or ten times harder. I mean, not even in the same ballpark.

No. And so to say that you like leveled up or whatever, which kind of a gay term, but to say that you leveled up your fitness from last year to this year, it would be like the biggest understatement ever. And you, you went this year, you did 100K. you did a 62-mile race, which is usually that's a good sign. But then you also did your picnic, which was like a 17-hour day or something? 19 and a half.

19-and-a-half hour day. But to me, that just, so I want you to explain what that entailed. And then I think it'll be clear, you know, how much work you put in preparing your body. Yeah. I do want to start and say that I had a chip on my shoulder from Winnihaw last year because anytime anybody asked you about it, you would just go, James? which is totally fair right and my only answer could be well i got my ass kicked so i was like i don't want that to be the fucking answer to the question this time you know and and granted like maybe it

wasn't that i wanted it to be the answer to the question this time i just didn't want it to be the answer to the question ever again all right yeah so um yeah so yeah so the picnic is a mountain triathlon you call them people that do them it's not an actual event it's not like you start at a start line with 100 other people. It's just something you do in the mountains, in the Grand Teton's. You bike 23 miles from the town square of Jackson. You start at the little antler arch there. Oh, yeah. And everybody knows that place. Yeah. You bike 23 miles to the edge of Jenny Lake and you swim 1.3 miles across Jenny Lake. It's not 1.3. It's like almost one in three quarters yeah and then you from there run 10 miles to summit the grand with 7000 feet

a gain and then do it all again on your way back to town it's a big day it is a big day um you know it's the the hardest part is obviously the run that's 20 miles and you're not seeing anybody for 20 miles so you know you got to carry everything on your back unless you're me and forget it all up the lake but yeah where did this idea come from So this came, I think five years ago, I had done the Grand Teton, just did the full Exum route, which is like climbing, you do it roped up. It's a little bit harder than the route I did, but we took two days to do it. And I remember there was a guy up there who did the grand in a day, and he was in flip-flops.

And I was like, that guy's a stud. And I couldn't fathom doing it in a day. I was like, fuck, you got to, what kind of shape do you have to be in to do that? Yeah. And then I learned about the Grand Teton picnic, which was the, a grand in a day plus extracurriculars. And me being delusional at the time was like, I'm going to do that. Yeah.

And so I told a buddy and I was like, you should do it with me. And he's like, yeah, let's do it. And then two weeks go by and he texts me at like 2 a.m. And he's like, I've just been up all night thinking about the picnic and how stupid it is. And there's real risk involved and you're an idiot. And like, you're not, that's you, it requires real fitness. You can't just go do it. And I was all right.

Yeah. And in a way, he was right because I didn't do it. that year came and went and then over the years i kind of forgot about it and it wasn't until last october we were i got thrown in hot water because i was giving coat of run shit for couch to cocaona yeah and i said all right i'll uh i'll put my money where my mouth is and and claim that i'm going to do a goal that i know is so far outside of my reach at the moment and uh you guys can hate on me if i fail yeah so that's what i did i and i think in that episode too i said uh Or maybe it was a couple episodes later, I said, make goals that scare you.

Yeah. And it really did. I mean, the amount of anxiety I had over this for the longest time was brutal. Yeah. All the way up until the start, you know, I, what sucked is I did that 100K. It was good. It was fine. You know, I did it in under, I think it was like 14 and a half hours, decent time.

But I never felt like I had done enough. the whole time all i like i thought i had people coming to support me flying to a different state showing up just to watch me fail on the picnic and it was a shitty feeling yeah um you know i like had a couple other people that wanted to come and i ended up telling them don't like don't waste your time go do something better uh just because i thought i was going to fail but yeah anyways that's where i that's where i that's where i thought of it i just happened to come across somebody doing it online after i'd done the the teeton so okay yeah yeah and And I know at the time, I don't know, I think quite a few people have done it now, but it was like, this is the real mountain test.

Oh, really? Yeah, you want a full day of the mountains powered by human. Propulsion, that's what you do. Yeah. Well, fucking knocked it out. I don't know why you just didn't quit early, though. Dude, I should have. It was, yeah, I mean.

You could still say you did it. It doesn't matter. Maybe we could just move the finish line up. Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I mean, the three days before were like, you know, you talked about this with Cocoa is like you're laying at bed at night. Yeah.

Not sleeping. Wondering what the fuck you're doing here. Well, I had that for the three nights before. I think I got five hours total with maybe an hour of actual sleep the night before. Oh. That's rough. And I was on my feet all day the day before. And I'm like, not only did I already not believe I was going to be able to do it, but now I've just really cemented that.

Yeah. And I started it like, I mean, I started it just thinking of ideas of how I was going to tell people why I gave up. Why you failed? Why I failed. Yeah. It's not a good start. No. It sucks.

And all the people had sacrificed all this time, I'm like, what am I going to tell them? It better be a really good one for them. I mean, seriously. Yeah. They're willing to sacrifice and I didn't put the work in to make sure I could finish it. I know. That does suck when you, I mean, because you, it's your idea. Yeah.

You got at least fucking be sure. I mean, but there's a couple of key parts that I want you to talk about. Like the summit, that sounds like a pretty sketchy part and somebody like kind of bailed you out up there. And then also that the swimming across on the return where the water got choppy. So it's like these a few like. Yeah. sketchy times. So I'll start by saying the other feeling I had leading up to this is, and it was a really weird one, but I felt like I was marching towards my death. Like my choices

that day were either to fail or die. And not in like a macho way. Not like I'm going to stay out there till I die. It was like, I don't know. It was just this feeling that maybe infested in my mind, my thought process. But I really just was like, if I go for this, I'm going to die. I I didn't plan. I didn't bring any ropes. There was nobody with me and all I had were my trail shoes. And surprisingly, the bike, the swim and the first couple miles of the run went really well. And I found myself kind of staring up at this section that I had to weave my way through. And I ended up finding these people and I saw that they had kind of wiggled through this keyhole and I was like, I'll just follow them. And then I made some jokes at them. They're like, we can go ahead of you. And I was like, are they said, yeah, you go ahead.

ahead in front of us and I said no yeah it's like I'm fine I'll stay back here and we made our way up and still I'm thinking okay I'll be able to get up but on the way down I'm gonna fall and I was like if I if I have my legs under me I have to go for the summit and we got to this section the upper saddle and from from this area you don't need ropes yet there's some like sketchy scrambling but nothing too technical yet and they were We're like, let's check weather, because I guess thunder and lightning was supposed to be moving in and rain. And they're all like, the half of the group was like, I'm not playing with this. It's not that important to me.

We're going to bail. And so as they're bailing, I'm like, hey, one of the odds, I could use one of your guys as harnesses and repel off the top. And without a thought, they were like, no problem. Oh, nice. And guy took off his harness, gave it to me. and yeah I mean the that was like the first moment during this day that I was like I started to have this realization that was all these things I've tried to do I've always put the weight on my back and kind of in a selfish way I've been like I'm the one that does this you know it comes down to

me I've trained alone I've done all this and this was the first time that day that I was like you idiot it's not just you look at all these people that have shown up for you and you're still willing to look the other way and act like it's you yeah and not only that but look at the people that have been put in your path when you thought you were marching to your death look at the scenario you found yourself and what are the odds you find a group and half of them bail and one of them is willing to give you their harness it's yeah it's pretty rare well i mean it's just it's not coincidence right no for sure.

Anyway, so yeah, there's this huge weight lifted off my shoulders. And for the people that don't know, this section of the grand, the route, the Owen Spalding is like 5'4. So there's some technical actual climbing moves. They're not hard. It's not like it's the hardest climbing. And that's why I felt like I was going to fall to my death. I just had this weird feeling. But there's like a couple sections where you're really climbing and you've got 2,000 feet of air beneath you.

So a lot of exposure. Yeah. And with climbing shoes, it's not that bad, but with the shitty hokas I had, it was, the rock was wet, I slipped a couple times. There's no way I'm down climbing that safely. So they offered me a harness. We ran up to the top and we got the summit. And man, standing on top of that when I thought all day, there was no way I was going to stand on the top without dying, for lack of a better word.

was, it was a surreal feeling. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't really know how to describe it because I knew, once I was standing on the top, I knew there's absolutely no way I'm quitting. You know, I felt decent. The problem was, like I said, I forgot about a thousand calories on the lake shore. And then on top of that, there's two spots to get water on the way up,

two spots on the water way to get down. And I packed like eight water refill carbs. Anyway, so I'm like probably 1,400 calories short. That doesn't help. Yeah, I was bonking before the summit. But yeah, anyway, so get to the top. And yeah, I mean, I wish that I wish that I would have had maybe a little more not so much pride invested in being okay with quitting because i think about like

not running into that group and i and i like to think about that i would have said no but yeah i don't know and i wasn't offered that that option instead i was offered something that i probably didn't deserve for my my selfish endeavor but well you you were you would have been offered you would have to make the decision to say no i'm not prepared So it was offered, I guess, in some way. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's a tough decision. Yeah, I mean, I was backed into a corner where I, my only option was to get help from those people.

But yeah, it was cool on the top. Everyone was like, the group I was with, I told them I was doing the picnic and everyone on the top was like, all right, this guy's doing the picnic, he's the first one off the mountain, we gotta get him down to the run. Like everyone was working with me to get me up the mountain quick.

It was super cool. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So anyways, come down off the top. I was, like I said, already bonking, so I was hurting really bad and make my way down to the lake. This is another thing. And Mark Dattle just talked about this on Theo Von, Theovon's podcast. He said, there's always a moment in every race, every backyard he's done, where he feels like he has to cry. Yeah. And I've felt that. I never have cried, but I felt like an emotional buildup in other races. But this day was like, there wasn't a moment I wasn't smile. smiling after that. Yeah.

You know, when it really started to hurt, I was like so happy, so grateful I had gotten the summit. Before that, I wasn't even thinking about crying. I was just like so worried. There's a lot of work to do still. Yeah, exactly. But coming down, I had a huge smile on my face. My knee was all blown up from the descent.

I could barely run, but it was just like, man, what a perfect day in the mountains. You're gonna finish it. You knew that at that time, probably. Yeah. Yeah. And so I get down to the lake. I had texted Brooke, I said, because she knew I forgot my my calories and I just said, I need a McDonald's cheeseburger.

That's the one thing. Yeah. If you guys can bring me one thing before I swim and I get down there and she's like, well, do you want to wait to eat it? And I'm like, fuck no. Give me that thing. You have to wait 30 minutes after you eat before you swim. Yeah, right.

So I slammed a McDonald's cheeseburger. Yeah. Did it help? Best cheeseburger I've ever had. Wait, better than, wait, what's our, where do we go? Five guys or in and out. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Better than in and out. Whoa. Yes, I got in the water. And the thing is like most people, that second swim is the crux. It's like cold water. You're tired. Your body is having a hard time staying warm.

But I didn't really fight any of those things. Instead, I got about halfway across. and a huge squall picked up, big wind, white cap waves. I've still got, it was probably a little less than half. I still had a mile left to swim. And my girlfriend and her dad were in a kayak. And they were like, we can't be out here. Like, we're going to tip over.

So they went in. And that's when it came back was like this feeling. It was like, okay, you cheated death on top. Yeah. Here it comes for you. It was like, you know, when you swim, you breathe and you want to breathe to both sides, I couldn't breathe to my right because I was just sucking down water. And then even like this was like white caps coming over. I'm sucking down water.

And but the problem was, is like, you can't stop. No. You have no choice but to just like keep swimming. And so that's what I did. I just put my head down and I swam. And I wanted to look up so bad, but I was like, you swim until you touch bottom. Yeah. And that's what I did. It didn't seem, I mean, it was, again, like the whole time I'm thinking, like, you think you're hot shit. Like, death doesn't care. No.

So it was a, that was another surreal feeling. And once I got out of the water there, it was like, I mean, that, that last bike ride was supposed to be a victory lap. Yeah. But that wind was all. headwind and so I had 23 miles left with probably a 20 mile an hour headwind yeah and then I'm thinking all right you cheated death on the lake a car is gonna hit you it was wild I don't know I've never I've never felt that and thankfully Brooke's dad rented a bike did both rides with me nice you know gave me gave me some

companionship out there it would have it had been dark without him. But yeah, I mean, you know, then finished, whatever. It was 19 and a half hours. Again, it didn't feel like, I don't know, and I've run into this a couple times now. When I finish, I don't feel happy. Happy or accomplished.

I don't know. Do you ever get that? Yeah. Yeah, because it's like, I don't know. I mean, it's the. journey, it's not the destination, it's not the finish. So once you finish, you're like, well, what, what's next? Yeah. It's like, I can't even, like, like the cocadona bell buck, I don't even know where it's at. Yeah. You know, like, that's supposed to be your thing. Yeah.

So I don't, I get it. I know. It's so weird. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what it is. And maybe it's the fact that I thought I was going to fail the whole time. And so when I finished, it was like, I think I'm going to fail, but I think other people expect me to finish. So it's like you finish. That's expected. You're supposed to. Yeah. Like what? You want a cookie for it? Yeah. You know? I don't know. Who is there to help you? Do you want to mention them? If you're lacing up boots before sunrise, loading up a pack, stepping into the garage gym, or logging miles while the world's still quiet, you don't need soft fuel. You need something built for a rebellion, the discipline kind. Black Rifle Coffee.

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Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly. Yeah. So obviously Brooke, her dad, and then her stepmom, Christine, they definitely sacrificed the most time. He rented a bike. They helped transport them to and from the lake,

whatever they needed to do. Woke up at 1 a.m. with me. We're there at the start. Yeah, I can't. That's impressive. It is. Because that's not a race. This is your hairbrain idea.

This is, yeah, this is some stupid idea I had. And, you know, I know I'll probably have family members that'll listen to this, but I, growing up, I never had somebody that would do that. Like, they cared about some stupid idea I had and it would show up, fail or succeed. I mean, luckily I succeeded, but I really do believe they wouldn't have cared if I failed. They would have thought of me the same. Yeah. And I had problems with this leading up to it. I told Brooke, I was like, maybe I just don't want anybody there. Like it's too much pressure. And she's like, they don't, they just, they want to come. They want to support. So. And then my buddy Palmer and his fiancee came out. And they were just there to have a good time. You know, I then end up, they hiked up like a couple miles up the trail when I ran and just were there to say hello to me before they split off on a different trail. That's all right. I wish I should have grabbed.

I don't know if they had any snacks or anything. But yeah. Yeah. And they were there at the finish. They woke up at 1am, too. And yeah, super cool. So.

How to support. Yeah. And then I do want to mention, I want to mention the people that helped me on top. It was Bo, Tinka, Andrew, Katie,

Maddie, and then Jorgon. Yeah, you guys are. rock stars with all all those people that I just mentioned the people on top brook her family my friends there is absolutely no successful picnic without them and I think that's the biggest thing I learned you know people I think people like to ask a common question with endurance events is like why do you do it and I've never really had a good answer but this answer for me is a good why it's like it

taught me that I can rely on people, that people will show up for me. And I don't have to have this chip on my shoulder of like, I have to do everything on my own. Nobody cares. You know, nobody cares work harder. But people do care. And I feel bad. I felt guilty afterwards. You know, the day after I'm driving home. And I felt guilty because I felt like all these people were willing to show up for me, no questions asked, no strings attached. And what had I done for them? You know, I think I said this to you in Canada, but it was like, I, in my head, I painted this picture of a farmer who's standing looking at his field. There's nothing growing. And all he's worried about is the fact that he can prove to everybody he can make something grow in this

dead field. And whether his family planted had the seeds there and generations passed or not. Meanwhile, behind him is a whole lush field that his friends have helped plant and water just for him. And he hasn't contributed any help, any work to others that need their fields watered. And so I just had this like kind of big feeling of like, man, I'm kind of an asshole. You know, how many, how many like dreams or goals do these? people have that I haven't shown up for and yet they're still willing to show up for me.

So, you know, I think for me learning that is like going forward, I want to be there for their goals too, just like they were from mine. And that's what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm trying to learn from it. And I don't, I hope I'm doing good, but, you know, changes don't happen overnight. No. But that's a good, I like that perspective. Yeah.

people part of it is that perspective that is a lot of people never have that it's always about them yeah so the fact that you've already learned what whether you've nailed it or not the fact that it's a conscious thought that's a start yeah you know what I mean yeah because like I said most people never get there yeah so the fact that you're evolving and like thinking about it like that that's you know that's a sign that yeah you get I don't know I think I think we all can be better at that yeah we're all selfish in some ways yeah you know and then you know there's a second part to this this story and I posted about this but you know I had one of my best friends in high school fell during a he was skiing back country skiing and he fell and died and the winter prior we did this big long road trip and bought these road flares, two of them, one for him, one for me. And we said, when we do something cool enough, we're going to light them off.

And ever since I had heard about the picnic, I thought, I mean, what better of a time. I was, this is like this huge goal that everyone told me I couldn't accomplish. And I was so emotionally invested in it. I said, this is when I'm going to light my flare off. And I brought it. And I finished this.

And again, maybe that feeling of like not accomplishing something great enough at the end played a part, but I couldn't bring myself to light it. And I think more so what that flare offers me is the perspective that nothing will be good enough to light it. I'll always be chasing that. And I'll always be chasing some adventure or something hard or some goal that feels impossible, that feels worthy of lighting. it, but in the end, it'll always be the next thing that's worth lighting this flare. And I'm okay with that. Now, now I understand that. I'll always keep that flare and I'll always try and do something cool enough that's worthy of lighting it off. I know that Ben would have, I mean,

he definitely would have been down. He started trail running and ultra running, you know, back right after high school before anybody even knew what it or at least before we knew what it was so he definitely would have loved to do it and you know i hope i hope he sees that and uh sees what i learned from it and i hope he's proud yeah well i would i would just say that um yeah that's i love that story and that's a connection that we have with people in our lives you know i would just like throw out the fact that i don't think there'd be anything wrong with lighting it when you do a something because that is the agreement you and Ben had and it would kind of give, I don't want to say closure, but it would give like power to that moment or the, the agreement you guys had together.

And there's no reason why you can't get another flare and say, I'm going to do, we're going to do this every time. You know what I mean? But instead of like, I wonder if that meaning over time would dissipate and, you know, you get distracted, life changes. And what if it's not the same as it would have been then you know what i mean yeah so that i would just say consider that yeah and and i don't know i don't fucking know dude i'm i'm just talking out my ass no that's that's that's a good point i haven't actually thought about that yeah i think part of me is like i don't want to just get another flare because it's not the same one yeah no i understand that but i do i do think that like you said he would be down for it yeah so i would think that it's it's meaningful enough to give

to have to open your heart to that thought and like to think about him in a different way. Yeah. I think you're probably right. I know there's also a part of me that's like it's the last thing I have that, you know, yeah, was a part of him. Yeah. And when it's lit and gone, it's right. That's true. There's no getting it back. Um, you could keep that one and get another one. That's true. I could. I could keep that one and then light, light the new ones when I do things. Anyway. Yeah. It's just I, I like that and I just don't want it to, you know, I want it to be what it was intended to be. Yeah. No, I with that. Because I just think, because, you know, obviously, you know, I've lost people close to me, too. And if I would have had something like that, I was just thinking about how, how I would navigate that.

Yeah. You know, I don't know. You know, originally I was like, how cool would it have been to, like, put it on the back of my bike while I'm finishing it. Yeah. Yeah. The amount of forest fires that was started. I probably would have gotten arrested. So would have let your butt plug on fire. Yeah. I need to get a butt plug flare. That's what I need. No, well, fiery tarnet. True. True. Yeah. Safety. But yeah, I mean, that pretty much other than, I mean, there's nothing like.

That's a big one. Too crazy that happened. I don't know. I know that I was like, like I said, super emotionally invested in this. And afterwards now people are like, what are you going to do next? Yeah. I've got a tickle. Yeah. I've got a tickle.

And I think I want to find, I want to find my quitting moment. So I think the best way. to do that would be a backyard, right? Because I'm not going to win. I don't know. So, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I'm doing one. Yeah. I'm just saying that there's a little tickle.

You're going to go and knock off Mark? I'm going to beat Mark. Do it. Yeah. Well, I, um, yeah. So what we always say is like, anytime you do something hard, oh, that's the hardest thing you've ever done. third hardest thing. So it was a picnic harder than the sheep hunt? How about that? I don't. So what is the hardest thing you've ever done as a question? Just so just so we're all

on the same page. The picnic was harder as one day for sure. But I mean that sheep hunt was that was tough and I know it's different there's no swimming and I mean the biking is nothing but I don't know dude 15 days the mental torment the the physical challenge I think the sheep hunt takes it and I didn't was not expecting that to be the case yeah I mean I think we left it was three days after I finished the picnic four days after I finished is like I did not think I was going from what was the hardest thing I had done to the new hardest thing yeah yeah it was brutal yeah so fucking rough any of you that think that you would have enjoyed the sheep on yeah I think you should think again yeah just a being soaked part even though we had all good shit great shit yeah I mean

you without rain pants what did you get those rain pants like two days before you can I know I told Tanner because he's up packing moose hunting right now. Yeah. I said, dude. I said, when you get to Penn Air, walk to fucking Bass Pro and buy some rubber. I said, and not just pants. I'd just get the jacket to. Just so you can then you can just lay in pouring rain and you're not getting wet. Yeah. Get the whole kit. Yeah. Whole kit and cabood. So that's where they, they, uh, he got there last night. They said they gave him some spaghetti for half hour, then shipped him out by him. himself.

What? To the fifth to find a moose. Holy shit. He's go go find a big, they dropped him off, said find a big bull. Does he have like a in reach or anything? I mean, he's texting me. Yeah. So he's got something.

Yeah. That's intense. I said, well, I said you can score a lot of points if you find a big bowl for the hunter. I'd have been like, you know, the weather's looking. Yeah. Maybe. I'll probably wait till tomorrow morning. How's tomorrow looking?

Yeah. Yeah. I only need four days. No, he was, he's, yeah, he's pretty pumped. But yeah. I'm sure he's loving it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well, I don't know. He said he can't find any moose. I said, well, it's big country. Yeah. We, didn't we see a bowl when we were? Yeah. Yeah. I saw one way out.

But it's like, it is big country. I mean, and there's not a ton of moose. So you do have to get on that glass. Is he, uh, did they, do they have like this similar, you know, we were intense? Those like kind of. Slim or? Slimilar. The similar tense that we were in?

Probably. Or is he off his back? I don't know. Off your back would. That's a hole. Yeah. Because we had like a little stove. Did we have bagels and peanut butter and bacon?

Those are good. That was good. Yeah. God. Yeah. That's, you know what? You could use some of that on the sheep.

Yeah. I was going to say Kurt needs to add that to his repertoire. Man. Did you see that buck in Colorado? God. I think is a monster. That is crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's the goal. Yeah, that'll be... Get that bitch on the Bentley. Ooh. That should be pretty good. Yeah, I mean, it's... That thing is freaking...

God, it is huge. Trying to look at these other bucks over here. It's like bigger. Than that top one? That top one's 208. But this one is six by ten. And it's got mass. Very heavy.

Yeah. It's crazy. We'll see. Yeah. That's all that'll be fun. I know. Any bowls? No.

I mean, they've seen some, but it's early. So I got that bear. I'm going to focus on deer and bear. And then let the, I have till the, so we're supposed to be in Utah on the 14th. Okay. at noon. Sweet. So like probably that morning flight out of here.

And then I don't know if I'll be here or coming from Colorado. Yeah. But you can drive. Yeah, I know. Put some miles on the Bentley. Shit. Utah's quite a ways up there. Yeah.

Is it? Well, it's. No, it's right above. 10 hours to Colorado from San Carlos. Oh, yeah. I can't remember. Didn't. we didn't we not drive that i didn't or wait did i i don't think so i thought i did i think you did i don't

think i did well if i did i don't remember it yeah oh wait i did yeah yeah it's not and did i fly yeah yeah it's not i think it's another 10 yeah so too far but i mean it's almost flying is a pain in because I got to go Colorado Springs, then Denver to solve it. So it's almost like with three flights. Might be quicker. Yeah, I'll have to think about it. Especially because you'll probably miss a flight. Yeah, but also I've got that car being picked up at Colorado already on the 13th.

Yeah. Well, oh, real quick, not only was the sleep bed three days. I had torrential diary. Yeah. So I was dehydrated. Nice. Let me add that in there. What was that?

What caused that? I have no idea. Maybe being so nervous. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I have not been that nervous for something I think in a very long time. So.

How did the two weeks of Mountain House do for your stomach? Are you back to normal yet? That was, dude, I haven't been normal since I've been back. normal since I've been back. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be TMI, but it's shit talker. So it's been, it was bad enough that I thought about using paper towels. Yeah, I don't know what the hell happened.

I don't think that, that many preservatives is great. There's got to be like a limit of how many days in a row you could eat those things. Because we were pounding on it. And they were. And I still want to blame the fudge. Is that mudslide? Was it called mudslide?

Mississippi mudslide. That's the perfect name for it. Yeah. That was your underwear. It still is. Yeah, it's rough. God. I have, I've put back on maybe four pounds, but.

Yeah. I was looking at, dude, I got to show you this. Okay. You are not going to believe how. lean I used to be. I found old photos of when I was climbing. Whoa, holy shit, dude. You're shredded. I know. Whoa. That's a... I know. I need to get back to that. Well... What happened? Yeah. I got fat. You got pregnant. I got soft and I got skinny. Well, I was really skinny. I was probably 1.45 there, but... Yeah. Well, that's what it, kind of what it takes to climb. Yeah.

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And Matt Johnson. James Lawrence. Online beef. I just think people have been asking for your opinion. Just listen to that past episode. Shit talkers. Right? Is there a beef?

I haven't seen Matt Johnson respond. I don't think he's going to. I just assume no response. Beef. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, so what it was was we talked about a little bit. Matt had a goal of seven Ironman in seven days.

He came up a little short. I think we kind of landed on still giving him credit for earning money for the veterans, which is amazing. I do understand. These coming up short on all these goals and that even sounds bad all these goals, but The run across Texas supposed to be a thousand miles is eight hundred and some miles This one was supposed to be seven. It was six and a half Where did those extra miles go? I don't know was it just never I have no idea I didn't know if they're rounding up

I never heard I never got the D D D D D DLs yeah, I'm like oh I thought it was Texas 1000 Yeah, but it wasn't I guess we just round up six and a half to seven yeah 800 to a thousand so i mean i get so james lawrence who is the iron cabboy he did and if anybody can have an opinion i guess it'd be him he did a hundred and one in a row ironman iron man is that hard fucking nuts and also did he do it in different he can do a hundred and different states but the first time he did it in 50 different states so he had to like organize swimming in all these states to get the 2.4 miles yeah and people were like got mad at him because he did a day inside or a couple days inside because of weather and they were like that doesn't count so then he

did 100 and 1 100 and 1 yeah because it was going to be 100 then he just did one just for a good measure so that to me that's a full fucking effort so with him being critical of matt that's he had has that right, I think, I don't. And I did say some things. I do understand when you have a goal, people want to see that goal achieved. Yeah. Or they want to see you bleed not getting it. Right.

And so I do understand where Matt is being criticized a little bit. And also, but I also want to say that when you post your goals publicly and you're a public figure and you got a million followers and you're making money. from all this, bro, you're fucking putting yourself out there. Yeah. It's not out. You can't just take the good. You're going to get bad too. Yeah.

And you got to fucking take that just the same. Yeah. With the smile on your face. Yeah. Which, I mean, maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. He hasn't responded. So who knows?

I think my one thing was like, and I don't think, I mean, I'm not sure James what his full intentions were. But you can lose. respect for like the goal it turned in like and i don't know if he ever was like attacking his character but in the comments people were just attacking everybody's character was a melee in there that's social media yeah but i think just in a broad view what we do what we've been given the opportunity to do you guys endurance athletes i capture it whatever but in the grand scheme of things being able to be disappointed or lose respect for someone because they only did six and a half and not seven,

that is a privilege. Being able to say that you only want to do six and a half and not the full seven is a privilege. Guys. Yeah. We're men. Are we not? Like, why are we doing these little Instagram fights? Yeah. It's ridiculous. And like we talked about, you know, there was that video of Matt buying a bike for a kid. So he's obviously a good dude. And I can, you can be a great dude in failing your goals. It's whatever. There's another caveat to it. Which I don't know if this caused James some, I don't know if this caused some feelings to him.

But he was talking about how it was for veterans and veterans don't get a chance to quit. They can't be a war and say, I quit. They can't they can't quit when it gets hard. Like even like the people struggling with mental with depression or or mental challenges, they can't quit those. Right. So Matt was trying to help those guys for those guys really struggling. They don't want to see Matt quit. Yeah. Because he might be inspiring them. So I think I heard James say something about that or wrote something about that, which I wasn't thinking about that. Yeah. That wasn't my perspective. But I,

I get that. And so maybe, maybe that was a big deal for James. And I understand. Matt himself is a veteran. So again, is complicated. Yeah.

And there is nuance to it. So, and he, then he put up today something about he was going to kill himself in 2023. So it's like, do we, do we really want to be just piling on negativity with people who are

already struggling? Yeah. Is James a veteran? I don't think so. For some reason, my brain goes to like when, if I were to wear like a Pocahontas outfit for Halloween and then the white woman in the neighborhood is like that's cultural appropriation. Yeah. Why don't you let them, the veterans speak up for themselves. Yeah.

You know? I don't know. If they're not upset. I mean, and that's the thing is like you can't be like all veterans are upset. There's going to be some that are upset, some that aren't. Yeah. It's so, like you said, it's so nuanced. It is.

It's just, yeah, I just think like a big deal is people want to see you have a goal. They're rooting for you. They want to see you finish. Well, like we said. They want to see you suffer and finish. It had been, I would have loved to watch him bleed and drag himself across those last, whatever it was, 85 miles. No, that's why we watch all these documentaries.

Exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, we wanted him. I don't want him to fail. No. No, I want him to say, I want all his goals to be met. I don't like there being negative. But the thing is when you do have huge goals, like these endurance goals, the best ones,

there's a chance of failing. And that's why people watch and tune in and care. Yeah. So you can just say, oh, I'm going to run a 5K every day this week. Well, who gives a fuck? Nobody. So if you're going to say like, no, I'm going to do an Iron Man every day this week, then all of a sudden people are like, okay.

Yeah. So you fucking give it your all. Yeah. And I think, in my opinion, you know, maybe we could have been a little less celebratory on the finish line. Just in my opinion. We? I didn't celebrate. Matthew. Oh, yeah. I mean, I like Matthew, Matt Johnson. I do think he's a good dude. But, you know, next time. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like you said, I mean, if anyone's going to have an opinion, it's James Lawrence. Yeah. And I do, you know, like I said, this is just the way it goes. Your social media, you're going to get criticized, you're going to get celebrated. Yep. You can get worked up about either one. This is your fucking job. That's a good point.

That's your job. It's, that's just the way it goes. Yeah. So when it's your job, though, give everything you got. Yeah. Maybe you can get worked up. Maybe you just can't complain.

Yeah. I mean, nobody wants to hear a complaint. Yeah. No, I mean, he didn't, he didn't complain. He, the opposite of complaining is you talk about what you did. Like you gave, I think he raised 500,000 and something like that. So you don't get into the, the mudslinging. You just talk about the win.

Yeah. And that's, that's amazing. Yeah. So I, you know, I love to see him buying the bike. to see him raising money for veterans so just focus on that focus on all the good work you did and just catalog this negativity and just say yeah maybe maybe i have to own some of this yeah i don't know i don't know if that's how he feels but i would feel that way yeah i mean and i don't i i haven't seen if he's posted anything but no i'm sure he i don't know i mean i would feel that way too we're

we're on we're on his team we're on the side i mean i think about i don't know i mean i think about i don't I don't know. I just think about, it's just different. It's, I don't know. I think about failing and like, like I said, that whole day I was just thinking about how I was going to come up with some excuse of why I quit. Yeah. And that fucking sucked. I know. But if I did quit, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have had somebody drive me to the finish to the antler arches and been like, I did it. So I can see both sides. I don't know. I'm probably going to. get hate for that. I don't remember running across the finish line of Coca-Donough this year. Yeah, but you wore that on your chin. Yeah. You didn't have us drive you to the finish. Well, that's not true. Well, actually, I did. I did. But you didn't cross it like you finished. No. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's another, there's another side of this too, which is sponsorship. Yeah. You know, and I don't know. I was kind of surprised that James, did a post like that. Normally, like people who, who've made it usually don't, I don't want to say

punch down. So, but I just think it was so, so closely tied to what he did. So he, you know, with his previous 101. Which, I mean, there's, I think, um, I don't know how people view this, but like it's so it that's the guy that you want to have an opinion if you're doing iron man yeah that's the guy and and i don't i don't think he's being he's trying not trying to be mean no i think he's trying to be constructive yeah because i think he's a good guy also yeah and i saw like mike egan said in there like it could have been in a text or call that's true it could have been well except this whole business is done on social media exactly so you put your goals on social media you put your wins you put your failures you put your criticisms it's all social media yeah so

why are we having different rules yeah i mean clocked in yeah it's time to work yeah so and i mean look we're talking about it so yeah and i mean respect to egan too it's like such a stud yeah again if anybody can have an opinion as him yeah and you know he's going to bat for matt his boy and i respect that it's great yeah so well the one other thing i got to ask ask you about. Have you seen this whole Lindsay Clancy case? Is this a she killed her kids? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that much about it. I don't either. But I just know there's a lot of heated exchange of like women who support her and dudes leaving those relationships because their partner supports her. Yeah. I mean, I don't really understand

how you can justify a mother killing her kids. Because that's right. Isn't that what people are doing? Like, oh, they understand what she was going through, kind of. Yeah, like she had, or they're saying she had like postpartum psychosis or something. Yeah. And now there's like a bunch of shitty moms basically using it as an excuse for their behavior.

Yeah, I can't get behind that. Yeah, I can't either. I can't get behind that. the jury's out deliberating it has been for a while so so it the case was heard jury's making a decision now is where it's at yeah which i don't know usually means there's not like super hard evidence either way i don't even know exactly what is being like she said she did it yeah but i guess they're saying she was in psychosis so she was just told she did it right i don't know how that shit works yeah so is she like You're supposed to be like get off on a mental health technicality.

Is that or like go to a mental hospital instead of prison? Probably seems like what's up. Yeah, I guess maybe that's, those are the options. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, either way, three innocent kids are dead. God, that's terrible. Yeah.

Yeah. So. I don't know. Yeah, I don't, I didn't, I haven't really followed too much on that. You've just been watching your incest show. God. Thank God. I'm done with that.

You finished it? Yeah. Yeah, it's good stuff. But Cam Kennedy killed a bull. I saw that. Yeah. Who else got a bull? Oh, uh.

Tanner's buddy got one too. Yeah. What's his name? I just saw that the other day. He killed like opening day, didn't he? Who? Is it cousin? Oh, oh, Marcus.

Marcus. Yeah. Marcus they get one. Yeah, he got another. So now he's been on, he's got, and I had him go to Ronnie's out there at Whites. Oh, nice. Yeah, to get that meat taken care of. Because he basically taught himself how to hunt.

So now he's killed two six by six last two years. He's killed a bear with a gun and a buck with a bow. But the bulls are both with a bow. Dude. And taught himself how to do it. Stud. Yeah. So it's like he's trying to break down this elk and watching it on YouTube.

And I told Ronnie, I said, hopefully, I said, I don't know where Marcus is at with taking care of animals. Because I said, I think he taught himself. So I'm hoping that, you know, the meat is treated with respect and honor and all that. He said he did a great job. Oh, nice. So that was, that's, that's a, that's a, that is a challenge for a new hunter. Yeah. Especially a bull.

Oh. So much work. Was he by himself? Yeah. That is really hard. Yeah. So he, uh, I think he told Tanner, he thinks there needs to be people need to understand

how much work is involved because when you get a bull down because I think he said he got his ass kicked dealing with that. I mean, if you don't know exactly what you're doing, it can take a couple hours. Oh, God. Even if you know what you're doing,

it takes a couple hours sometimes. A lot of time to think about what you're fucking up. But man, what an accomplishment. So super proud of him. Yeah, people are killing. We got good weather here. today. It's about perfect. I know. Yeah. I loved waking up to the rain. I know. So it's a yeah, it's, you know, been in the bow rack. I've finally got some more arrows. We were kind of behind on the

X-10s. I was getting down there. Got them in today and got on a finish. So I've been at the bow rack and everybody's in there shooting and getting pumped. Yeah. It's that time of the year. It came quick. I know. I know. So hopefully we can get a bowl on the ground and continue the streak. Yeah. I had, what was I going to say? Yep. So.

Yeah, I don't know. Oh. You're, this probably won't mean anything to you. But Eric and I got an old Nintendo 64. Nice. And a tube TV. Ooh. We got rid of the, of the little flat screen we had and put a tube TV with a Nintendo 64.

How is it? Oh, it's so fun. What games? Super Smash Bros. GoldenEye, 007, Mario. So instead of making my movies, you're fucking playing video games. Exactly, all day. That's the thing about Tube TVs. You can't see them in the daytime, though.

Oh. I mean, you could barely see them. When it's good light. Yeah. Yeah. But, no. Those things sucked. So I'm getting rid of this.

I'm also getting a home phone. A dial-up. Yeah. Yeah. You get a rotary phone. Yeah. You know, the huge TVs that make the sound when you turn them on. Yeah, and they're fucking heavy.

Yeah, heavy and shit. I remember I gave one to this guy that worked with me. It was like a lot to lift. Now you get these flash screens and you're just like, they're so light, but those old ones, man. This one is like 24 inches across and probably 200 pounds. Yeah, and like 48 inches deep. Yeah.

But that was it. Good stuff. Well, all right. Well, that's our update. We got the shit talkers weekly, the picnic breakdown, and then the drama breakdown. And, yeah, we're good. Now, next up is a solo episode. I know.

Right? I got some good ideas. All right. Yeah. Well, so stay tuned. Yeah, James will be doing it solo, like his first sexual experience. The bathroom back home. it's all love it's all oh we didn't even start with that now it's all love yeah so yeah yeah

that doesn't count no because that's that's a shit talkers yeah yeah all right all right okay guys don't want your meatloaf keep hammering