Canadian True Crime - 02 Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka - 2

Episode Date: February 13, 2017

[Part 2 of 2] The conclusion of the story of two married sexual sadist serial killers who terrorized the Greater Toronto and Niagara areas in Canada in the late 80s and early 90s. This episode goes into their marriage, the psychopathic, diabolical crimes they are known for, their arrests, trials, controversy and “where are they now”. There’s also a cameo by Luka Magnotta. If you think you know this story, you’ll definitely hear some information you haven’t heard before.The Canadian True Crime podcast is hosted by Kristi, an Aussie true crime fanatic who lives in Canada and is a proud Canadian citizen.For more information, you can follow the podcast on Facebook www.facebook.com/canadiantruecrime. All feedback is welcome!If you like this podcast, you could check out one of my faves - The Minds of Madness - here www.facebook.com/themindsofmadness/ Music credits:Podcast theme music: Space Trip. http://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/space-trip/Hopelessness IX, I, XII, VIII by Daniel James Dalbyhttp://freemusicarchive.org/search/?sort=track_date_published&d=1&quicksearch=HopelessnessSoundtrack 1 act 4 by Mank http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Mank/Heartbeat Drone 2 http://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/heartbeat-drone-2/5. Still 1 and Still 5 (version) by -ono-http://freemusicarchive.org/search/?quicksearch=onoMercury https://www.dl-sounds.com/?s=mercury&post_type=downloadHeartbeat Done https://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/heartbeat-drone/Borg Cityhttps://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/borg-city/Dark Cuehttps://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/dark-cue/Dark Cue 2https://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/dark-cue2/Ambient Dark Skieshttps://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/ambient-dark-skies/All music is used under an Attribution License - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Main information sources:Stephen Williams: Invisible Darkness: The Horrifying Case of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka

I said, well, we have to go to my parents for Easter dinner. And he said, well, why don't we just not go? And I said, well, I don't think it would look very good. I mean, we're supposed to go to my parents for Easter dinner, and we don't go. And I said, well, how's it going to look if this girl's missing and we have no alibi? We haven't gone anywhere, we haven't done anything.

And he said, well, I guess you're right. And because he wanted to keep her for longer. And I didn't want to. I was going to work. I didn't want to go to work knowing that this girl was in my house, and she could escape so easily. And I didn't. I was afraid.

So I didn't suggest to him that we kill her on Sunday. But I knew that she had to be gone. No, it's one thing. I'm a human being. To say that I'm a dangerous vendor, and rape, and kill, and all this stuff is fine. I mean, for a public speed, you'll get that. You'll talk about trying to get that back at.

But when you go to a certain point in life, it just, I mean, it affects me totally. I made mistakes. I made mistakes a long time ago. But don't say that today. Because then we're lying, and then we've got a big problem. I'm looking at you, and you're the bad guys. Because I'm not doing anything wrong.

I'm not telling the truth. And you guys are walking around issuing statements that I lie here, I lie there. Welcome to the second episode of the Canadian True Crime podcast, Paul Bernardo and Carla Hamorca, part two. This is Christy. If you haven't listened to part one, it's probably best that you go and do that first.

This podcast contains adult themes and content of a violent and disturbing nature. Listener discretion is advised. Firstly, I wanted to thank everyone who's taken the time to review the podcast on iTunes or the Facebook page. And also to everyone from the podcast we listened to, Facebook group, who gave me great feedback on the first episode.

Thank you all so much. I'm always open to feedback. So if you have any more after this episode, you can fire me on Facebook just by searching for Canadian True Crime. And just before we get started, I wanted to take a few seconds to tell you about a really cool new podcast. If you like this one, you're going to love The Minds of Madness because it's kind of much better.

It's also hosted by a super cool guy, Tyler, who lives in the same area in Canada as me. Check this out. Hi there. My name is Tyler and I'm the host of a new True Crime podcast called The Minds of Madness. I first want to thank Christy from the Canadian True Crime podcast for giving me the opportunity to introduce my

show to you. The Minds of Madness is an investigative discovery podcast uncovering the gripping events, circumstances, and state of minds that let ordinary people to do unthinkable things. It's now available on iTunes, Google Play, and Stitcher. You can also join in on the conversation on the Facebook page under The Minds of Madness.

As you recall from part one, Carla had decided to give Paula Christmas present, her 14-year-old sister's virginity. But first, let's go into a little bit more detail about the relationship between Paula, Carla, and her little sister Tammy. Carla likely had some inkling as to Paul's involvement with the rapes in Scarborough because one time he asked her

how she would feel if he were the Scarborough rapist and she said, that would be cool. And now he was blatantly after her 14-year-old sister. How did things come to this? In his book, Invisible Darkness, author Stephen Williams says that investigators discovered trouble had been brewing between Tammy and Carla. And in Carla's mind, things had moved beyond ordinary

sibling rivalry. In a police interview, the middle sister's boyfriend at the time suggested that Tammy was on thin ice with Carla just a few months before she died. He said, quote, one night we were all sitting in the rec room and Tammy is snuggling up to Paul and saying, I'm younger than Carla and I'm prettier than Carla and Paul's going to marry me.

Apparently, Carla told Tammy to, quote, get the fuck out of here and leave Paul alone. Police interviews noted that the family's neighbors and friends had noticed Paul's increased interest in Tammy in the time following up to her death. One neighbor said that Tammy would hug him when they were sitting down, and sometimes he would put his arm around her and give her a squeeze.

To Tammy, it was probably just innocent flirtation. After all, Paul was a good looking guy and had perfected the nice guy routine with almost everyone he knew. But for him, Tammy was becoming an obsession. Carla told police that in the months leading up to Tammy's death, she had begun impersonating her younger sister in a sexual role play with her fiance. According to Carla, quote, he had me say, my name is Tammy.

I'm 15 years old. I'm your virgin. I love you and I want to marry you. Carla also helped Paul get access to Tammy's bedroom window so he could get in at night. Because they live close to the US border and Buffalo, New York was on the other side, he once took Tammy across to get beer for a party.

After the trip, Paul told his fiance that he and Tammy, quote, got drunk and began making out. Another time, Carla took some valium from the animal clinic where she worked, crushed it, and put it in Tammy's spaghetti sauce. Tammy soon lost consciousness, but woke soon after and interrupted Paul's attempt to sexually assault her while Carla watched.

An expert profiler on the case said that the minute Paul's fantasy moved from the privacy of Carla's bedroom to that embarrassing, get the fuck out of here and leave Paul alone evening in the family rec room, Tammy's fate had pretty much been sealed. Paul's obsession with Tammy was becoming a growing bruise to Carla's ego, and the jealousy and rage started to build within her.

But at the same time, she wanted to keep Paul happy and was constantly worried that he was going to leave her for someone younger and more innocent. Since Carla worked at a vet clinic, she had a basic knowledge of the range of sedatives used on animals. The challenge was to figure out which drug to use and how much to give Tammy to render her suitably unconscious

so that Paul could have his way with her without her waking up again. Carla decided to use halothane, an anesthetic twice as strong as chloroform and four times as effective as ether. She didn't have the proper equipment needed to administer the drug. The insert that would have come with the bottle she stole includes the warning that halothane must always

be administered with a breathing tube down the throat with strict limits placed on the amount of chemical that's safe to use. It also clearly listed death as a consequence of improper dosage. Even if Carla didn't read the label at this time, she'd used this drug before with cats and dogs so was likely acutely aware of the consequences

of both incorrect dosage and administration. Despite this, Carla stated she was confident that she could administer the drug herself by putting the drug on a cloth, holding it over Tammy's face and checking her breathing periodically to make sure she had enough air. It was two days before Christmas in 1990, the day that Paul and Carla decided

to put their plan into action. This would be Paul's Christmas present. They were in the basement of Carla's parents' house watching a movie with Tammy. Paul had commenced proceedings by making Tammy mixed alcoholic drinks laced with a sedative. The mixture of drugs and the alcohol worked rapidly and Tammy was unconscious in no time.

Paul and Carla waited until the other family members had gone to bed and laid the unconscious girl on the floor. Paul then took his video camera out and filmed while he sexually assaulted the 15-year-old with Carla making sure to keep the halothane laid in rag over her sister's face to make sure she didn't wake up. At one point during the assault, Paul ordered Carla to join in. Carla didn't need to be told twice.

Later evidence would show that she was a willing participant in the sexual assault of her own little sister. Suddenly, Tammy began to vomit. Unfortunately, whether it was due to naivety or stone-cold apathy, Carla again chose the wrong action and held her sister upside down in an attempt to clear her throat. Tammy appeared to choke to death on her own vomit.

Paul and Carla tried various unskilled methods to try and revive Tammy, but they failed. Having accepted that Tammy was dead, they worked quickly to cover their tracks. They dressed her and hid the drugs, camera, and other evidence, dragged her body to her bedroom, and called an ambulance. Obviously, it was far too late, and Tammy

was pronounced dead before the ambulance made it to the hospital. Carla and Paul were not deemed suspects in Tammy's death. Even though the incorrect administration of the drug had left a large, red, burn-looking mark on the left side of her face, her death was ruled due to aspiration, fluid in the lungs caused by vomiting as a result of her drinking.

Paul and Carla claimed the mark was a rug burn from their attempt to revive her, but a post-mortem photo clearly shows a large, bright red mark that doesn't look anything like a rug burn. Many have wondered why the police decided to accept the rug burn excuse as the truth without further investigation. By all accounts, Paul was devastated by Tammy's death,

but Carla was different. Although she put on appearances for the funeral and appeared to grieve appropriately, her focus soon turned to what effect her little sister's death would have on her upcoming wedding plans. The wedding was planned for just six months after Tammy's death, and Carla was enraged by the fact that her parents didn't feel

it would be appropriate to continue her plans for a big festive wedding while they were still grieving Tammy. Although no one suspected Paul of anything at that point in time, Paul was no longer welcome in the Hamalka household, as the family didn't feel comfortable with him there while they were mourning the loss of their daughter and sister. This enraged Carla even more.

Paul was asked to move out, and Carla went with him. They moved into a small bungalow that's a one-story house in Port DeLuzzi, a town near St. Catherine's. From the outside, they still appeared to be a happy, engaged couple, but behind closed doors, Paul had begun to take his aggressions out on Carla,

both verbally and physically. In her continuous effort to keep him happy, she decided to plan another surprise for Paul in the lead-up to their wedding. She had a young friend who she knew from working at a pet shop two years earlier, known in this case as Jane Doe, to protect her identity. On June the 7th, 1991, Carla invited the teen

for a girls' night out. They went shopping and had dinner, and then back at Carla and Paul's place, Carla started giving her alcoholic drinks laced with yet another sedative she stole from the animal clinic. After Jane Doe lost consciousness, Carla called Paul to let him know

that she had a surprise pre-wedding gift for him. Paul came home straight away. Together, they undressed the girl, and Paul videotaped Carla as she sexually assaulted her, and then Paul took over. The next morning, the teenager was nauseous, believing that the reason for it was that she drank too much the night before.

She didn't even know what had happened to her. This wouldn't be the last we would hear from Jane Doe. Just a week after that, and two weeks before their lavish wedding, Paul woke Carla up in the middle of the night with what he called his surprise. It was a young girl, 14-year-old Leslie Mahaffey, a girl with long, dark blonde hair, a beautiful smile,

and distinctive braces on her teeth. That night, Leslie had been at the wake of a school friend who had died in a car accident. Afterwards, Leslie and a group of friends met to drink and reminisce about their friend. After the evening had wound up, Leslie arrived home to find she was locked out. Since she was way past her curfew

and didn't want to wake her parents up, she walked to a pay phone and called her friend to ask if she could sleep over there. For some reason, her friend said no, so with options exhausted, Leslie decided to walk back to her house and wake up her mum. On the way, Leslie ran into Paul,

who was on the street looking to steal license plates for his side business of illegally importing cigarettes across the border. Reports differ as to whether Paul offered Leslie a cigarette or if she asked him for one, but regardless, they walked back to his car to get one. When she was close enough to the car,

Paul said he wrapped his sweatshirt around her head, forced her into the vehicle and sped home to the house he shared with Carla. With Carla still asleep, Paul stripped Leslie and blindfolded her. Carla woke up, went out and discovered what the commotion was all about and her response was to go back to bed.

The next day, while Paul sexually assaulted Leslie, Carla did housework and took their dog Buddy for a walk. When later interviewed by police, Carla says she was upset by this, but not for the reason you might think. Oh, and I was really mad too, because when I took Buddy out, there were two champagne glasses on the dining room table and we had these really expensive champagne glasses

from France, which we never used. We had those out, the two of them had been drinking champagne from those glasses. I was really mad. This is stupid. Later on, Carla got on board and together they sexually assaulted Leslie, filming the attack.

Paul gave explicit instructions to Carla about what he wanted her to do to the young team. Leslie was sexually attacked for a total of 24 hours with Paul and Carla giving her a teddy bear to hold during breaks between assaults. According to Carla, after they were finished with her, Paul attempted to strangle Leslie with an electrical cord. Carla said the first attempt didn't work,

so Paul had to try again. This time, Carla used some of the sedatives that she used on her sister Tammy to make the process easier. According to Paul, when he went out to get gas, Leslie was alive, but when he came back, he tried to pick her up to carry her away and found she was dead. Paul also claimed that Carla's plan was to murder Leslie

because her blindfold had fallen off and she would have been able to identify them. Paul said her plan was to inject an ear bubble into her bloodstream, eventually causing an embolism. This is one of several examples where Paul and Carla's stories don't match up. The next day was Sunday, Father's Day, and Paul and Carla had arranged to play host

to Carla's family to mark the day, so they had to ensure that Leslie's body was out of the way. Paul and Carla moved the body from the bedroom to the basement and entertained Carla's family on the main floor. After her family left, Paul used his grandfather's saw to dismember Leslie's body into small pieces and then went out to buy a dozen bags of cement,

keeping the receipt. He encased the body parts in concrete blocks and dumped them in nearby Lake Gibson. Just two weeks later, on June 29th, 1991, Paul and Carla were joined by over 100 friends and family for their dream wedding, held in a historic church in Niagara on the lake, a quaint little town about 30 minutes drive from Niagara Falls.

Carla wore a puffy, extravagant-looking dress and she had baby's breath in her hair and veil, a look that was highly fashionable and sought after for brides at the time. Paul wore a classic black suit. He ensured that the minister pronounced the man and wife, not husband and wife. After the ceremony, they left the church

in a horse-drawn carriage. It really was the perfect wedding, fitting since they successfully presented themselves as the perfect couple. Meanwhile, on their wedding day, a fisherman and his wife were canoeing on Lake Gibson when they came across a concrete block with some pieces of what appeared to be flesh and bone

encased in it. The fisherman came back with another fisherman later and they looked at it more closely. It was the calf and foot of a young woman. Soon, the area was teeming with police and a total of five concrete blocks were found in the shallow water. That night, their wedding night,

Carla says that Paul casually told her that he was the Scarborough rapist. She says it ruined her wedding. Despite having been involved in two deaths, one of them her little sister, Carla called this night the worst night of her life. The body in the concrete was identified as being Leslie Mahaffey due to her braces

and details of the murder sent shockwaves through the region. By this time, Carla and Paul had jet-setted off to Hawaii for a week-long honeymoon. The Niagara Regional Police started to intensify the investigation to find any clues that would lead them to the killer. Meanwhile, Carla was settling into her new role as wife,

but she'd found that the commitment of marriage had not reduced Paul's desire for virgins. Instead, his devious thoughts had escalated. In August, two months after the wedding, Carla invited Jane Doreen back to their house, this time for a sleepover. The proceedings of the night were eerily similar to the night that Tammy Hamulka had died

with Carla administering the sedatives. Jane Doreen stopped breathing after she was drugged and Paul had begun sexually assaulting her. Carla called 911 for help, but while they waited for the ambulance, they noticed that Jane Doreen appeared to be breathing again, so they called back to say that all was well. The ambulance was recalled without follow-up.

In April, 1992, Paul and Carla decided to abduct another girl, referring to it as a, quote, new sex slave. They went for a drive to find one, but they didn't have to go far because they soon spotted 15-year-old Kristen French walking home from school. Another pretty young girl,

Kristen had long chocolate brown hair and was on a rowing team and an award-winning precision ice skating team. Having seen Kristen walking along the road, Carla and Paul pulled into a church car park just up the road and waited for her to pass. Carla, holding a map, asked Kristen for directions and obviously with Carla being an innocuous-looking female,

Kristen had no hesitation in going over to help, but when she approached the car, Paul attacked her from behind with a knife and shoved her into the car. The couple then sped back to their house. Paul and Carla held Kristen for three days. They tortured her, shaved off her hair, humiliated her, and sexually assaulted her repeatedly,

videotaping all their depraved acts. They forced her to drink large amounts of alcohol, presumably to dull her urge to fight back. Again, Carla and Paul told different stories about how Kristen was murdered. Carla testified that Paul had strangled Kristen with an electrical cord for exactly seven minutes while she watched.

While Kristen was missing, her classmates, teachers, and friends at her school chose the Green Ribbon of Hope as the symbol for their search. In response to community fears, the police put together a task force of investigators, fittingly called the Green Ribbon Task Force. They started putting together a profile. The person they were looking for

was likely a white male late 20s with a history of sexually violent crimes and domestic violence. Spot on. Several witnesses had seen Kristen with two people in the church car park, but had mistakenly thought the car they were in was a beige Camaro.

Immediately, the police started up a highly publicized hunt for a beige Camaro, complete with billboards showing a picture of a similar car, urging the public to contact them with information. The media had now linked the disappearance of Kristen French with Leslie Mahaffey one year earlier and were eagerly feeding a hungry public with extensive coverage.

Kristen's clearly distraught father appeared in a press conference, offering words of encouragement and hope to his only daughter in case she was still alive and watching. Sadly, just over two weeks after her abduction, Kristen's body was found in the city of Burlington, 30 miles away.

Her naked body, complete with no hair on the head, was dumped in a ditch a short distance from Leslie Mahaffey's grave. Autopsy reports found her own hair inside her stomach, which meant that she had been forced to eat it. She also had her fingernails removed, presumably so there wouldn't be any skin left under them that could later be used as evidence.

Paul's name came up again from one of the many tips that police received. So 12 days after Kristen's body was discovered, the police went to interview him. Paul was polite and cooperative in the interview and admitted he'd been a suspect in the Scarborough rapes because he looked so similar to the composite picture. Paul later bragged that he stayed, quote,

cool as a cucumber during that interview. The investigators noted that he also drove a Nissan, which looked nothing like the Camaro they were incorrectly looking for. They still tried to contact Metro Toronto Police to ask if the Scarborough rapist investigation had progressed. It took eight days for a detective to call them back, explaining that the final testing of Paul's DNA samples

hadn't been completed yet. So technically, he actually hadn't been cleared as a suspect. Do you have a passion project that you're ready to take to the next level? Square Space makes it easy for anyone to create an engaging web presence, grow a brand and sell anything from your products to the content you create and even your time.

When I launched this passion project six years ago, I needed some kind of online hub to manage all the non-podcasting tasks that come with podcasting. I chose Square Space because it's an all-in-one platform that seamlessly helps me achieve multiple goals. It's important to have a website that looks good and I was inspired by Square Space's wide selection

of clean and modern templates. They can be easily customized with pre-built layouts and flexible design tools to fit your needs. And you can even browse the category of your business to see examples of what others have done. I use the built-in blogging tools to create a new page for each episode

and there are so many intuitive options from embedding an audio player so listeners can stream episodes to scheduling posts to be published on a certain date and easily moderated comment section and automatically displaying recent episodes on the homepage. Every Square Space website and online store

includes SEO tools to help you maximize your visibility in search engines. And I love the powerful insights I can get from the analytics tools, helping me better understand who's visiting the site, where they came from and how they're interacting with it. Do you have a passion project or business idea or something to sell?

Go to squarespace.com slash ctc for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code CTC to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash CTC with offer code CTC and get your passion project off the ground today. At the same time, Paul and Carla's relationship continue to take a steep downturn

and Paul's violent temper escalated. During one of their many arguments, he reportedly took Carla's pet iguana, cut its head off, cooked it on the barbecue and ate it in front of their friends. Another time, Paul reportedly defecated on a slice of bread and forced Carla to eat it. In January, 1993, Paul viciously attacked Carla

with a heavy flashlight. He gave her such severe blows to the back of her head that it forced her brain to surge toward her eye sockets, giving her what appeared to be two black eyes. He also gave her a broken hip and severe bruising. Her wounds were so serious that she ended up being admitted to St. Catherine's General Hospital. This was the straw that broke the camel's back.

After being married for just over 18 months, Carla decided to separate from Paul and move out with relatives. Around the same time, the DNA samples were finally processed and Paul was finally identified as the Scarborough rapist. Police were quick to move before Paul could make a run for it and on February 17th, 1993, they arrested him on 43 charges of rape and sexual assault.

They initially interrogated him for eight hours and he eventually admitted that he had been involved in all of the Scarborough sexual assaults. But an inquiry into the case would later find that officers in charge violated Paul's charter rights by not allowing him to call a lawyer despite his repeated requests. This meant that the entire interrogation

was inadmissible as evidence. During this time, Paul changed his name to Paul Jason Teal, apparently to distance himself from his convicted child molester father. Carla would also change her last name to Teal. The name Teal had significance to them as it came from a 1989 movie that Paul enjoyed called Criminal Law,

which portrays a serial killer of the same name. The Green Ribbon Task Force soon learned that Paul had just been charged with assault in St. Catherine's and that charges had been filed by Carla, his wife. The Metro Toronto Police and the Task Force decided to interview Carla to see what her perspective was. They rightly suspected that there might be a connection

between the Scarborough rapes and also the murders of Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French, but they didn't have much to go on. Carla was interviewed for about five hours and although at first she thought it was about the assault, she quickly put two and two together and realized that it was about the murders in St. Catherine's. Although she wasn't accused of anything

and the interview seemed to be more casual in nature, it left her rattled. Afraid that the police were close to discovering her secret, she broke down and told her uncle that Paul was the Scarborough rapist and that he had killed Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffey. In April 1993, Carla was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for evaluation before going to trial

and she wrote the following letter to her parents and remaining sister. Dear mom, dad and Laurie, this is the hardest letter I've ever had to write and you'll probably all hate me once you've read it. I've kept this inside myself for so long and I just can't lie to you anymore. Both Paul and I are responsible for Tammy's death.

Paul was in love with her and wanted to have sex with her. He wanted me to help him. He wanted me to get sleeping pills from work to drug her with. He threatened me and physically and emotionally abused me when I refused. No words I can say can make you understand what he put me through.

So stupidly, I agreed to do as he said, but something, maybe the combination of drugs and the food she ate that night caused her to vomit. I tried hard to save her. I'm so sorry, but no words I can say can bring her back. I have thought many times of killing myself but I couldn't put you through the pain of losing another daughter and sister again.

I don't blame you all if you hate me. I hate myself. I live with the pain of knowing I unintentionally killed my baby sister every day. I think that's the real reason I put up with Paul's abusive behavior. I felt I deserved it for allowing him to drug and rape my beautiful baby sister.

I loved her so much and never wanted to do anything to hurt my Tammy skins. Please believe me. I would gladly give my life for hers. Nothing I can do or say can bring her back. I don't expect you to ever forgive me for I will never forgive myself. Carla, XO, XO.

After her confessions, Carla retained a lawyer, presumably trying to get ahead of the story. George Walker happened to be someone she already knew. He took his dog to the vet clinic where she'd worked. She told him that Paul was a Scarborough rapist and admitted involvement in the murders of the three teenagers, Leslie Mahaffey, Kristen French, and her own sister, Tammy Hamalka.

Carla knew that the knowledge she had gave her power and she would only agree to testify in exchange for a reduced sentence for herself. So straight away, her lawyer started working out a deal. Since at this point, Paul had been outed as the Scarborough rapist and Carla's official record was clean, she saw an easy way out for herself.

So she told the police that Paul was responsible for the deaths of the three teenage girls, saying he had forced her to take part in the attacks against her will. Police searched the house that Paul and Carla shared, a search that went for 71 days. Investigators discovered that Paul had a written account of every one of the Scarborough rapes

plus a comprehensive library of books and videos covering everything from sexual deviation to pornography and serial killers. They did find a videotape of what we now know as Jane Doe's sexual assault, but the search didn't yield any results in terms of the specific videotapes they wanted with Leslie and Kristen.

At this point, Carla's word was all the prosecutors had to move forward on and it was going to have to be enough. Because Carla had knowledge on the crimes that no one else had and was willing to testify, and because the prosecutors had little else to go on, her attorney was able to arrange a plea agreement with prosecutors.

He used Carla's psychiatric report to set the stage for the plea bargain deal. Her psychologist concluded that Carla, quote, knew what was happening, but she felt totally helpless and unable to act in her own defense or in anyone else's defense. She was, in my opinion, paralyzed with fear and in that state became obedient and self-serving.

In exchange for the testimony against her estranged husband, Carla would receive a reduced sentence for her involvement. This plea agreement was not disclosed to the public. In the meantime, in May 1993, Paul instructed his lawyer, Ken Murray, to enter the house and obtain six eight millimeter videotapes hidden behind a potlight in the bathroom. The tapes obviously showed that Carla took

an active role in the crimes rather than participating as a victim as she had led the courts to believe. If the tapes had come to light, the court proceedings would likely have gone in a different direction. Paul gave instructions to Mr. Murray, his lawyer, to not watch the tapes, but after three weeks,

he went against Paul's orders and watched them, later describing how they traumatized him for life. Mr. Murray said, quote, they were corrosive, they were horrific. I suppose I was in a unique position in that up until that point, I was the only person in the world who had looked at them. No one was there to watch them with.

There was no one to whom I could speak about my reactions. It was an exceedingly emotional time. Mr. Murray said his horror was made even worse by the fact that he had a daughter the same age as the victims. He said that from the day he met his notorious client, Paul was all over the map about how he wanted himself defended,

yet he was shockingly consistent about admitting to having abducted, sexually assaulted, and held the three teenagers against their will. According to Mr. Murray, Paul's position was that the tape showed him at an all-time low and that he was guilty of most of the offences. He said, quote,

I'm probably going to jail for the rest of my life, but I did not kill those girls. Paul stated that Carla should have been charged along with him because although he said he did all the stuff on the tapes, he didn't actually kill the girls. Here's Stephen Williams, author of Invisible Darkness in an interview with Canadian investigative documentary, The Fifth Estate.

I think she was desperately afraid of getting caught and desperately afraid of going to jail. The motivation for these murders, everyone agrees, was not sexual. The only possible motivation was to conceal crimes. There's no one who disagrees with that. What the crown wants us to believe is that it was Paul Bernardo

who was the murdering force who wanted these girls dead. And you think? And I think that it's exactly the opposite because Paul Bernardo had no history of killing anyone to conceal his crimes. He didn't think he would ever get caught. No one had died until Carla came into the picture. Mr. Murray, Paul's lawyer, said that what he saw on the tapes

convinced him that Paul could be telling the truth. The Carla Hamulka he saw leering out from the videotapes was the total opposite of how she described herself as a cringing, battered spouse who had been forced to help her husband feed his sadistic impulses. He said other videotapes showed Carla to be a confident, happily married woman who loved her husband

as much as she loved being sexually adventurous. Mr. Murray said he didn't see a woman who had been coerced. Quote, she was happy, compliant, suggestive, and willing. In my view, the tape showed Carla as being often the initiator, often the person in control. Nothing on the tape struck me that she was being dominated or coerced.

In fact, there were times that Mr. Bernardo's actions appeared to be scripted and it was she who was holding the camera. So what became of the tapes? Well, Mr. Murray kept them for 17 months without disclosing their existence to anyone, including the police. He said he felt no legal or moral obligation

to hand the tapes over to authorities. Instead, he felt his obligation was on behalf of his client, Paul Bernardo, to not hand them over. Mr. Murray was later charged with obstruction of justice and was acquitted and also faced a disciplinary hearing from the Law Society of Upper Canada. Two weeks after the tapes had been found and were safe with Mr. Murray,

Carla led police through the house, leading them to find pertinent DNA evidence, as well as that receipt for the cement purchase which tied Paul to Leslie Mahaffey's murder. In June 1993, Carla appeared in court to face the charges. This trial had an uncommon restriction for Canadian courts. Journalists were allowed in the courtroom, but they were only allowed to report

on the charges and the sentence. This publication ban was frustrating to the Canadian media and spurred them to write even more about the case speculating on things they didn't know. The media and the public were whipped into yet another frenzy. Meanwhile, the ban did not apply to the states and the American media was also going wild with details.

Although the internet was in its infancy at the time, many interested Canadians gathered in chat rooms to discuss the trial. Newspapers in Buffalo, Detroit, Washington, New York and even Britain reported details they got from sources at the trial. Canadians bootlegged copies of the Buffalo Evening News from across the border,

prompting the police to arrest anyone with more than one copy. In court, Carla's lawyer portrayed her as a battered wife who was forced by her controlling husband to follow his orders and participate in his criminal and depraved acts. Normally in court, the outfit of the person on trial is carefully chosen by their lawyer

to project a certain image and possibly increase the chances of an innocent verdict. But 23-year-old Carla's outfits in court were drastically different. One early appearance saw her wearing a tartan, kilt and blazer, almost similar to a schoolgirl's uniform. Further into the trial, she wore a green jacket

over a green dress that seemed a little too big for her, teamed with sensible shoes. But the clothes seemed at odds with the heavy makeup she wore, including Cagedon Foundation, deep red lipstick, heavy black eyeliner and false eyelashes. Because of the plea bargain, Carla's trial was brief,

but the details read out in a statement of facts by the prosecutor left seasoned law enforcement officers and journalists visibly shaken and summoned tears. Reporters called what they'd heard gruesome and devastating. The Toronto Globe and Mail newspaper said the next day that the report was, quote,

a catalog of depravity and death. Even Carla's own lawyer took off his glasses and rested his head in his hand while the statement was being read. The mothers of Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French also addressed the court, reading statements detailing the impact that the murder of their girls had on their families.

Even Carla herself was observed to be choking back tears and wiping her eyes. Prosecutor Murray Segal addressed the possibility of a public outcry over the plea bargain, saying, quote, why not a greater penalty in light of the horrendous facts? Without her, the true state of affairs might never be known. A guilty plea is the traditional hallmark of remorse,

her age, her lack of criminal record, the abuse and the influence of her husband and her somewhat secondary role were factors. She's unlikely to re-offend. On July the 6th, 1993, Carla was found guilty and sentenced. For the murders of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffey, she was only charged with manslaughter.

Because of her plea bargain, dubbed the deal with the devil by many, she only received a sentence of 12 years in prison for each of the two victims, with the sentences to be served at the same time. Even more shockingly, Carla would be eligible for parole after only serving approximately three years

with good behavior. The judge noted that the maximum was reserved for the worst offenses by the worst offenders. But although Carla had committed the worst crime, she was not the worst offender. He went on to say, quote, no sentence I can impose would adequately reflect the revulsion of the community

in the death of the young girls who lived lives beyond reproach. I understand the outrage the community feels and rightly so. Just as the prosecutor predicted, the light sentence threw the public and the media into more waves of speculation about the secret plea agreement.

Many Canadians were outraged at the leniency of Carla's sentence and how she would be eligible for parole after only a short period of time. There were many protests outside the courts. Her plea wasn't allowed to be publicized, so the assumption was that it was a guilty plea. But the real reason the plea agreement

and details of the case were being kept secret was to ensure that Paul Bernardo would have a fair trial. For her part in the deaths of Leslie and Kristen, Carla was sent to Kingston Prison for Women, a prison about two and a half hours from Toronto. But as Tammy's death had not been ruled an accident, she was not charged for that.

Not long after Carla went to prison in July 1993, the body of Tammy Himolka was exhumed. Another post-mortem was conducted with no further evidence coming up. Without those tapes, there was no concrete proof of anything. And at this time, Paul's lawyer was still holding them in secret.

Immediately after Carla's trial, the police decided to release information on the unrelated video they found during the search of the house she shared with Paul. It was the video of the sexual assault on the unconscious teenager known as Jane Doe. The announcement of these details started up another media frenzy

with rumours that Carla and Paul were making snuff films. In August 1993, a month after her prison sentence started, Carla filed for divorce from Paul Bernardo. The next time she would see Paul would be in court, testifying against him. A year later, in September 1994, Paul's lawyer Ken Murray couldn't deal with the moral quandary he'd put himself in

by holding the tapes for Paul, so he quit as counsel. He passed the tapes to his successor, John Rosen, who promptly turned them over to the police. By Mr Murray's own admission, this series of events caused the long delay in Paul's trial. On May 18th, 1995, almost two years after Carla Hamalka's trial ended,

Paul Bernardo's began. He was now 31. The prosecution decided to only concentrate on the murders rather than the time and cost it would take to try him for the Scarborough rapes as well. So Paul faced two counts of first degree murder, two counts of aggravated sexual assault, two counts of forcible confinement,

two counts of kidnapping, and one count of performing an indignity on a human body. Because the Canadian public had been denied access to information revealed at Carla's trial almost two years earlier, the opening address of Crown Prosecutor Ray Hulahan seemed like a relentless avalanche of brutality, sexual degradation, and murder.

The prosecutor gave painstaking details of how Paul had begun to dominate Carla, reducing her to a compliant victim through systematic abuse, both physical and psychological, and then used her as a pawn in having his sexual fantasies made a reality. He painted a picture of a terrified Carla being unable to get away from Paul's control,

so had no choice but to comply with his escalating demands. The Crown Prosecutor showed a videotape segment showing Carla naked and masturbating with the camera zoomed in. The footage was shocking. Not many people in the courtroom that day expected to see X-rated footage of one of the country's most infamous women.

Although it seemed a bizarre way for the Crown Prosecutor to treat what would later be his star witness, the screening of the footage was to show how Paul was in charge, scripted what happened, and forced Carla to obey. The footage shown at this time also showed dialogue of Paul and Carla talking about obtaining 13-year-old virgins

for him to sexually assault. Carla played the role of the sex slave, and Paul was the king, and the role play and discussion of Paul's sexual fantasies clearly had the goal of bringing him to climax. In a crowded downtown Toronto courtroom, Carla's testimony and questioning went for five days. Now 25, she seemed devoid of any emotion,

rarely changing her tone of voice even while she was describing the beatings, sexual assaults, and murders. Under gentle questioning by the Crown Prosecutor, she depicted herself as a vivacious teenager who fell under the spell of a sexual sadist and became an unwilling participant, another victim in fulfilling his sexual fantasies.

Paul's lawyer vigorously attacked that portrait under cross-examination, even showing her side of the story to be inconsistent at certain times. The judge advised the jury that Carla's credibility was an issue because she was already serving time, and in such circumstances, witnesses tend to minimize their role.

During this trial, the jury were asked to watch the videos that Paul's lawyer had hidden all those months, which was of course highly distressing for them. The screen was turned so that only the jury and court officials could see, however the crowd of spectators and media could still hear the terror through just the video. The videotapes were destroyed in 2001.

On September the 1st, 1995, Paul Bernardo was convicted of all nine charges against him, including two counts of first degree murder for killing Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French. He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for 25 years. He was also declared a dangerous offender, meaning that although he can apply for parole

after 25 years, he will likely still spend the rest of his life in jail. Paul was sent to Kingston Penitentiary, the prison close to where Carla was. He was kept in the segregation unit at the prison for his own safety, but has still managed to get attacked and harassed. In 1996, he was punched in the face by another inmate

while returning from a shower. That same year, a six month long inquiry into the police investigation into Paul Bernardo concluded that the investigation was impeded by dozens of mistakes by police, and the case was caught in the crossfire between interdepartmental feuding and competition. Most importantly, the inquiry concluded

that some of Paul's crimes could have been prevented if his DNA samples had been processed more quickly. Three years later, in 1999, five convicts tried to storm the segregated area where Paul was housed in Kingston Pen, and a riot squad was called to diffuse the situation with gas. In February 2006, Paul's lawyer revealed on CBC News that Paul had admitted to at least 10 more assaults

that hadn't been attributed to him. Most of these assaults took place the year before the known Scarborough rapes had started. Authorities suspected Paul may have been the perpetrator in other crimes, such as a string of rapes in Amherst, New York, another town just over the border, and the drowning death of Terry Anderson, a 14-year-old girl who disappeared from her home

in St. Catherine's in November 1991, close to Paul and Carla's home at the time. Paul has never acknowledged his involvement in these particular crimes. That same year, Paul gave an interview in prison suggesting that he'd reformed and would make a good parole candidate. His motivation was because he'd become eligible

to apply to a jury for early parole under a clause known as the Faint Hope Clause. However, for some reason, he didn't end up applying for early release under this provision. In June 2007, two members of Toronto Police went to Kingston Pen to interview Paul about whether he was involved

in the 1990 killing of Elizabeth Bain, a student at University of Toronto Scarborough, where Paul was studying also. Elizabeth disappeared on June 19, 1990. Her car was found with a large bloodstain in the back seat and her body was never found. Her ex-boyfriend was originally convicted of the crime and sent to prison, but was acquitted eight years later.

Obviously, it was not a far-fetched notion for the police to want to question Paul about this, hence the interview, which was taped and later released to the public. In the tape, Paul is cooperative but also argumentative, clearly frustrated with what he perceives as ongoing sensationalism of the case and the fact that Carla got off so lightly.

He's articulate, talks quickly, and bangs his hands on the table for emphasis. He's always moving in their quick, sharp movements just like his speech, whether it be swiveling back on his chair or looking around the room and rubbing his lips together. It's like he literally can't sit still. Straight away, he takes control of the conversation,

using the time to make a lot of complaints, including asking why Carla was never given a polygraph test. Here's some examples of tangents he goes on, basically complaining about why they're there to ask him about Elizabeth Bain when they constantly accuse him of being a liar anyway. Either I'm a liar or I'm not a liar, and I'm not a liar. But you guys are trying to tame me as well.

The public, according to the public, they turn on the TV in September of last year and I was this crazy liar. That's what the TV reported, and not only did they report it there, they wrote it on my file. I've got to break myself. Paul Bernardo, field regional, said Paul Bernardo lied to police

about prior to the committee, said he did. I mean, this is, that's just awful. I mean, come on, enough manipulation. You know what I mean? Either you tell the truth or don't otherwise, the whole purpose of any interview is just stupid. Because if I'm this crazy liar, I'll be sitting here lying to you anyway, right?

I mean, why wouldn't I? I'm just this crazy liar. After 15 minutes, they finally get around to asking him the question they were there for. Did you kill Elizabeth Bain on June the 19th, 1990? Well, it's a loaded question. I mean, are we going to go back and go through the time sequence of what happened in my life?

I mean, I could just give a yes or no answer, but there's a lot of issues about that, right? You know, Carlos and my role, we did what? Where, when, this is why I said, did you guys go down there to get a polygraph, to see if she was telling the truth? Like, why didn't, I didn't do it in the first place? I mean, is polygraphing able to become a role?

Why would you make a deal with someone and not give them a polygraph? It's not incomprehensible to me, you know? Because now I'm sitting with, my file says her version and it's a lie, you know? You know what I mean? Like, I, you know, I'm not making frivolous points here. I mean, and now you're asking me,

after you said Peel Regional said I'm lying about this, and then you're saying I'm lying about my profile, you're saying I'm lying if I'm better or not, now you're saying, hey, did you kill this person? I mean, well, you're saying I'm lying here and here, I could say, no, I didn't. But, I mean, you already said I'm lying here with Peel, you're saying.

I'm not saying anything about who's lying, I'm simply. And I've given you directions to go to find the truth. Right, and I've asked, and again, I've told you that, I've done investigations on information that you've told me, and as a result of that information, I've been able to verify in my mind where you've told me the truth. So, if Peel Region is lying about you

or someone else is lying about you, I have no control over that or no. Well, you close right to credibility. Well, absolutely it does. And that's, I guess, the easy way that is to, if we can go through, we'll answer the questions, and yes, I hope to be able to go through some timeline to identify where you were,

what you were doing specifically in relation to this case. Anyways, I know I'm giving you guys a hard time being argument about certain things, but I mean, really, I'm a human being, when you guys do all these things, I've got it. Anyways, I'll try and truncate it a little bit more, right? Anyways, the answer to that is no, but,

the 800 pound gorilla in the room is, that's a life 25 sentence, you know? It really comes down to credibility, and not only credibility, but then again, timeline. I mean, between what Carlos and my roles were respectively, and it's in that. The answer is no, that's the question. Later on in the tape, he claims that he didn't know

either Elizabeth Bain nor her boyfriend. In 2013, Kingston Penitentiary closed, and Paul was transferred to another nearby prison, Millhaven Institution in Bath, Ontario, where he remains incarcerated in the segregation unit. Like many notorious serial killers, Paul receives his fair share of attention from women. They report they can separate Paul the man from Paul Bernardo,

the perpetrator of some of the most heinous crimes known to the Canadian public. In 2014, the media reported that Paul, then 50, was set to marry a 30 year old from London, Ontario, who began corresponding with him the year before. According to the Toronto Sun newspaper, Paul has, quote, charmed and manipulated the attractive university-educated woman

into planning to marry him. Paul's fiance, who chose not to reveal her identity to the media, had apparently told friends she believed he was an innocent bystander to the murders of Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French. Apparently, Paul's fiance's family were not happy about the union, and said she had self-esteem issues

from being treated badly in previous relationships. The marriage between her and Paul did not go ahead, and it's believed they are no longer together. In November 2015, Paul self-published an e-book on Amazon titled A Mad World Order, which is a violent fictional thriller of over 600 pages. The book quickly became an Amazon bestseller, no doubt due to the notoriety of his author.

There was a public outcry about this book, with demands for it to be removed from sale. At first, Amazon declined to remove it, but had a change of heart soon after. Also in 2015, Paul applied for day parole in Toronto upon being eligible to do so, and his hearing is scheduled for next month, March 2017. Next year, 2018, marks the year that Paul Bernardo

will be eligible for full parole. According to Tim Danson, the lawyer on behalf of the victim's families, it's unlikely that he'll ever be released from prison due to his dangerous offender status. We can only hope, but I'll be sure to update you via this podcast. And what about Carla?

In 1995, it was announced that the Kingston Prison for Women, where Carla began her sentence, was due to close, and they were going to start transferring inmates to other prisons. Normally, Carla would have been transferred to the Grand Valley Institution in Kitchener, Ontario, about a two-hour drive from the home she'd shared with Paul, but the community was outraged that she'd be so close.

So, in 1997, it was decided that she would transfer to the next closest prison, Joliette Institute in Quebec. Side note, the nickname for Joliette Prison is Club Fed, because of the prison's supposedly luxurious conditions and lack of restrictions, claims the prison has denied. Quebec is a French-speaking province, and Carla only knew English, so in anticipation of the move,

she started learning to speak French and earnest. By all accounts, she picked up the language very quickly. Carla was pleased to be sent to Quebec. She saw it as a sort of separate country, where it would be fairly easy to blend in after her release. She was right. The prison proved to be a positive influence on her. After taking correspondence courses in sociology at Kingston,

at Joliette, she went on to earn her bachelor's degree majoring in psychology from Queen's University, reportedly achieving very high grades. News of this in the media again angered the community, with one commentator saying, quote, "'Nothing has changed. "'Concepts of remorse, repentance, shame, responsibility, "'and atonement have no place in the universe of Carla.

"'Perhaps she lacks the moral gene.'" When Carla transferred to Joliette prison in 1997, she started working in the kitchen and clicked straight away with Linda Verano, a fellow inmate serving time for a robbery who appeared to be the exact opposite of Carla. Linda was boyish looking and openly gay, while Carla was outwardly feminine

and had been married to the notorious serial killer, Paul Bernardo. They were quite a pair. Carla told a psychiatrist that she did not consider the relationship to be homosexual, because Linda apparently was transgender and planned to undergo a sex change operation. Another psychiatrist noticed that Carla was ashamed of the relationship and hid it from her parents.

Linda remembered Carla as calm, poised, and polite. She mostly stayed quiet, yet when she was questioned, she spoke perfect French. Linda said, quote, she looked so innocent like she wouldn't have anything to confess. The language barrier ensured that not a lot of attention was given to Carla, because although her story was a top headline

in English-speaking Canada, it wasn't anywhere near as big a story in Quebec. In fact, Linda didn't even really know anything about her. The two began a sexual relationship which went for four years. With this relationship also began her affection for Quebec. During this time, Carla declined a bid for parole, stating that she feared for her life.

In October 2000, Carla was transferred to a maximum security prison in Saskatoon for a psychiatric examination. Her lawyers attempted to block the move, saying her life would be in danger if she were removed from the prison in Joliet. At this point, her relationship with Linda seemed to be also hitting the rocks.

Three months later, she was transferred to a Montreal psychiatric hospital to undergo treatment. While in this hospital, Carla began a relationship with Jean-Paul Gébert, a long-term prisoner there who was serving a life sentence for killing his ex-girlfriend. In 2003, Carla moved back to Joliet

after its maximum security wing opened. This time, she kept her distance from Linda, confirming a breakup. Linda also found out about her relationship with Jean-Paul Gébert, which devastated her. Linda reportedly got even with Carla by selling photos to the Toronto Sun and trying to sell letters Carla had written to her on eBay.

At the end of 2004, the National Parole Board ruled that Carla must stay in prison for her full term, ending July the 5th, 2005. That year, everyone involved with the case and the Canadian public started getting very nervous and the lead-up to Carla's release.

There was much conversation about what would happen after she got out of jail and what, if any, restrictions could be put on her. Remember, she was due to be out after completing her full sentence so the usual parole restrictions wouldn't apply. In June 2005, a judge agreed that Carla may pose a risk to society after her release,

so placed several restrictions on her, including she was to tell police her home address, work address, and who she lives with and notify police as soon as any of that changes. She had to notify police of any change to her name. If she wanted to be away from her home for more than 48 hours, she would have to give 72 hours notice.

She was not permitted to contact Paul Bernardo, the families of Leslie Mahaffey and Kristin French or Jane Doe. She was also not permitted to contact any known violent criminals, a stipulation that had been put there in light of her relationship with Jean-Paul Gébert. She was also forbidden from being

with people under the age of 16 and from consuming drugs other than prescription medicine. Lastly, she was to continue therapy and counseling and provide police with a DNA sample. That same month, Carla requested an injunction prohibiting the media from telling certain stories about her life

after she was released from prison. It was turned down. On July the 4th, 2006, Carla was released from prison after serving her full 12-year sentence. Hours after her release, she went straight to SRC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's French-language news service in Montreal. There, she gave an interview in French, stating, quote,

I want to restart my life in French. It was speculated that she chose that route because the Quebec media wouldn't be as hard on her as mainstream English media in Canada. In August 2005, Carla, now called Carla Leanne Thiel, found a job in a hardware store in a suburb of Montreal. Her boss found out who she was,

recorded audio tapes of their conversations, and then reported her location and released the tapes to the media. Carla quit her job and went back into hiding. Three months later, a Montreal judge overturned the conditions imposed on Carla when she was released. Tim Danson, the lawyer for the families of Leslie Mahaffey and Kristin French, urged an appeal,

saying his clients felt like they had been, quote, kicked in the stomach. Carla commenced a relationship with Thierry Baudelet, the brother of her long-term prison lawyer. In February 2007, she gave birth to a baby boy at a Montreal hospital. Reportedly, some nurses refused to assist her. In May, she and Thierry were married,

and she decided to go under the name Leanne Baudelet. In December of that year, the family left Canada for Guadalupe in the Caribbean, a country that's French territory. While there, Carla and Thierry had two more children, another boy and a girl, and Carla launched a line of baby diapers, quote, lovingly sewn by me in my home

from a pattern that I designed, according to her online store. In 2014, it was revealed that Carla, her husband, and her three young children had moved back to Quebec. The way this information came to light is quite bizarre. If you're familiar with Canadian crime, you'll probably have heard of Luca Magnotta, the fame-hungry piece of human garbage who murdered Chinese international student Lin Jun

and posted a video of it online, calling it one lunatic, one ice pick. He then dismembered the body and mailed the limbs to elementary schools and other official locations. Turns out Luca was obsessed with Carla, who he likely thought could help him become more famous. He started online rumors that he was dating her, then came out in public specifically to deny those rumors.

He also used the name of Carla's sister, Laurie, now going under a different name, and her real address as the sender address on one of the four boxes he sent containing the limbs of his victim. At Luca's murder trial, Laurie Hamulca was called to testify that she didn't know Luca and it was during this trial that it came out that Carla and family were back in Quebec.

In April 2016, the media tracked down Carla as living with her family in Chateaugue, Quebec. She and her husband lived in a gray brick detached house that they purchased in May 2014 for $308,000. The media also worked out where her children went to school and parents of kids at the same school expressed great concern. The school and school board provided reassurances, quote, the school board has policies in place

to ensure that adults who work or volunteer directly with students are required to have criminal background checks. Parents were told in a memo that didn't specifically mention Carla by name, but everyone knew who it was about. Still, many parents and citizens insisted their anger wasn't directed at Carla's children. According to one parent, quote, it's not their fault.

I mean, people are going to gather, they're going to look and they're going to say things. What are these kids going to go through? They don't deserve that. Others, including neighbors, describe Carla and her husband as good, low-key neighbors who keep to themselves. A few times, the media approached the house

to see if Carla would talk. She remained inside the house and asked reporters to stay off her property. She also startled a reporter who was trying to speak to her by smacking her hand against a frosted window pane. Carla later told the police who instructed reporters to stay off her property. Carla's husband did speak to the press,

only to say that if neighbors were worried, they could simply move. Today, as far as we know, Carla is still a stay-at-home mom and ferries her kids to and from school in an old black SUV. Tim Danson, attorney for the victim's families, has said that she has never apologized to them. So what happened to the quaint little house that Paul and Carla shared?

For a long time, it was a target for vandals who broke windows and spray-painted it with hate messages. But in 1995, it was brought by a Toronto couple who promptly demolished it and built another house. They also changed the street number. To this day, if you mention Carla Hamalka and Paul Bernardo to a Canadian, it sparks anger. Not only because of the heinous crimes they committed,

but also at the gross miscarriage of justice that occurred because of Carla's deal with the devil. There are Facebook groups with vigilantes who keep an eye on Carla's whereabouts. It's still very much a sore point, especially with Carla being out and having started a family of her own. Many wonder how a person who has done those things

can possibly consider having children. What will happen when those poor children are old enough to realize what their infamous mother has done? And with Paul technically eligible to be released from prison next year and about to have a hearing into getting day parole, the case seems like it just won't go away. Thanks for listening.

If you enjoyed the podcast, I'd love it if you could tell your friends, rate me on iTunes, like the Facebook page, blah, blah, blah. You know the drill by now. I am so sick of hearing my own voice. I'll be back soon with another Canadian true crime story. If you have any story suggestions, please feel free to send them to me.

Thanks.