Canadian True Crime - 06 The Murder of Reena Virk

Episode Date: May 1, 2017

In 1997, a 14 year old girl is invited by a group of peers she thinks are her friends to meet under a bridge in Victoria, British Columbia. What happened next was unthinkable. The crime was a watershed event that changed peoples' attitudes about youth violence and incited controversy in Canada.Support my sponsors:www.canadiantruecrime.ca/sponsors…..This episode was brought to you by:Death in the Family by John ChipmanFor more information, please follow us on social media:Facebook: www.facebook.com/canadiantruecrime/Twitter: twitter.com/CanadianTCpodInstagram: www.instagram.com/canadiantruecrimepod/Podcasts to check out:Twisted PhillyTrue Crime Fan ClubAll feedback is welcome!Music credits:Podcast theme music: Space Trip. http://www.dl-sounds.com/royalty-free/space-trip/And these tracks fromhttp://freemusicarchive.org/: Chris Zabriskie - Brethren, Arise Chris Zabriskie - There’s a special place for some people Chris Zabriskie - There are many different kinds of love Chris Zabriskie - The Dark Glow of the Mountain Ars Sonor - Trace of Cluster Blear Moon - Cold Summer Landscape Chris Zabriskie - Cylinders 7 Mank - Soundtrack 1 Act 4 ROZKOL - So sorry, little girl Arts Sonor - Cellular Fugue II -ONO- Still 5 Chris Zabriskie - Theatrical Poster for Poltergeist III Chris Zabriskie - Fly Inverted Past a Jenny Chris Zabriskie - The House Glows With Almost No Help Ketsa - Looping Life All music is used under an Attribution License - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Main information sources:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kelly-ellard-reena-virk-hearing-1.3941842http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/convicted-b-c-killer-kelly-ellard-allowed-escorted-prison-absences-1.3302583http://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/crime/youthcrime_timeline.htmlttp://vancouversun.com/news/crime/reena-virk-murder-nearly-two-decades-ago-greater-victoria-lost-its-innocencehttp://www.timescolonist.com/news/kelly-ellard-30-waives-latest-parole-hearing-for-1997-murder-of-victoria-teen-reena-virk-1.24596http://www.academia.edu/1268100/A_fair_trial_Race_and_the_retrial_of_Kelly_Ellardhttps://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/reena-virk-critical-perspectives-on-a-canadian-murder

This is Christy and welcome to the Canadian True Crime Podcast, Episode 6. This podcast contains coarse language, adult themes and content of a violent and disturbing nature. Listener discretion is advised. Our story takes us to Vancouver Island in the province of British Columbia. You may picture a small island, but in actual fact, Vancouver Island is the largest island off the west coast of North America, comparable in size to the Netherlands or Taiwan. Located on the southern end of Vancouver Island is the city of Victoria, the capital

of British Columbia. Victoria has a British colonial history which shows in its architecture. There's a certain quaintness about the city and it's known for abundant parklands and beautiful English style gardens. In the 1990s, the suburbs on the western edge of Victoria were made up of rougher, working class families. At the time, the crime rate in these suburbs was above the national average and included a higher proportion of crimes committed by young offenders.

Many of these offenders came from troubled homes and were unable to live at home with their parents so they either lived in group homes, couch surfed with friends or lived rough on the streets. In this area is the suburb of Sannich and within it lived the Virg family, Manjeet and Suman Virg and their three kids. Father Manjeet was a first generation immigrant from India and of the Sikh religion and his wife Suman, also Indian, had been born and raised in Victoria but in the Jehovah's witness faith.

While Suman's parents wanted her to have an arranged marriage, she met Manjeet, fell in love and married him instead. Given their similarities and differences, the family embraced a mix of religious and cultural beliefs that included elements of both North American and traditional Indian lifestyles. Despite their local South Asian community being predominantly of the Sikh religion, Manjeet Virg had chosen to join Suman in being a Jehovah's witness. The family stood out.

They were a minority within a minority. Rina Virg was born on March the 10th, 1983. She was the oldest of their three kids and as the kids were growing up, they were a tight-knit family. Manjeet doted on his firstborn. She was a smiley little girl with dark curly hair who was outgoing, energetic and very social. She loved animals and she loved other kids. But although they had been born and raised in Victoria, Rina and her siblings stood out

from the mostly white population because they came from a South Asian family. Like most kids, as she entered her teen years, Rina became a little rebellious. She was also a little self-conscious because of her appearance. Most teens go through an awkward phase with their looks before they figure themselves out. But several girls at the Shoreline School where Rina attended zeroed in on these insecurities and called her out on it. At home, she showed it became a major issue for her.

But in public, she appeared confident and was no shrinking violet. In an effort to fit in more, 14-year-old Rina started to wear the gangster-style fashions that were popular in 1997. Baggy jeans and t-shirts, bandanas, clothes modeled on LA gangs. At the same time, she felt that her life was stifling. She hated how overprotective her parents were. She had a 9pm curfew and wanted to stay out later than that. She wanted to hang around the park with kids who smoked cigarettes and weed and who didn't

have the same restrictions imposed on them by their parents. Many of them out of necessity because they lived in foster care or were technically homeless. So Rina rebelled against her parents. The first time she was grounded, she ran away from home. Push, pull. Her parents imposed further restrictions, which was the catalyst to her deciding to move out. With information she'd gathered from the teens she thought had an enviable lifestyle,

she put together a plan. First, she reported abuse at home to police, which saw her placed in the care of her maternal grandparents. But this didn't completely solve the problem. Next, she reported to the police that her father had sexually abused her. While still in the care of her grandparents, she then attempted suicide. She was finally given what she thought she wanted. She was placed in a foster home.

The charges against her father were stayed by the crown due to a lack of evidence supporting Rina's descriptions of abuse. Not surprisingly, she found that living at the foster home was not the free and fun situation she thought it would be. So in September 1997, she recanted the allegations against her father and asked to return home. Her parents were relieved and gladly took her back. But before long, they ran into the same problems and a month later she went to a youth shelter and was then placed in a new foster home.

She met a bunch of people in foster homes who implanted into her mind the idea that if she wanted more freedom, she could move out into a group home. Group homes were the next level after foster homes, the places where teens with behavioral problems went, no rules, no curfews and more freedom. Not surprisingly, Rina manoeuvred herself into a group home and started missing school to join the crowd of people she saw as friends to party and commit minor acts of vandalism. She felt like she was making headway in her bid to fit in more. It was Friday, November 14, 1997, a chilly night with a full moon and clear sky, and

Rina was invited to a party. A couple of 14 and 15-year-old girls told her to meet them in the parking lot of a local Walmart. After this, the group went to the backfield of the Shoreline Secondary School where many of them, including Rina, attended. There, an even larger party crowd was waiting for them. By nightfall, there were about 30 teens drinking and smoking cigarettes and weed. It didn't take long for the group to get rowdy and the party out of control.

At about 8.30pm, one of the kids threw a rock at the school window. A janitor at the school called the police who arrived to break up the party. The kids all scattered in groups to evade the police. Some went to the convenience store, others went to the nearby Comfort Inn, some went to a schoolhouse and others went down to a secluded area under the nearby Craigflower Bridge. Rina was one of the kids who ended up at the convenience store where she made a call to her parents to tell them that she was going to come home for the night.

Her house was closer than the group home where she'd been staying. She told her mum and dad she'd be there in about 20 minutes. When she hung up the phone, a couple of girls locked arms with her and told her they were going down to the bridge to have another cigarette. Feeling pleased to be included, they walked down to the south end of the Craigflower Bridge that spans a title inlet known as the Gorge Waterway. The spot on the Craigflower Bridge was an omen of sorts. The colonial history of the space is one of violence.

The violent seizure of the lands and means of livelihood of local indigenous and First Nations people who were displaced when white settlers first arrived. And that night, the bridge would again be the location of more violence. At midnight, Rina's parents were still waiting for her to come home. They were extremely worried, so called her group home to see if she'd gone home there. At the group home, they said they hadn't seen her since the night before. Although it wasn't the first time she'd broken curfew, the group home alerted the police anyway so they were aware in case there was a potential issue.

Contrary to what you might think, a phone call of this nature wasn't a big thing in this area back then. A local police officer said at the time that on any given night they could have as many as 15 alerts for missing kids. As wards of the state, as soon as they were 30 minutes late they were reported, but many of them would show up the next day only to go missing again the following night. It was a cycle. So given that Rina was a ward of the state and had a history of missing curfew, the report

to the police of her being late this night didn't raise huge alarm bells. They assumed that she would show up eventually. However, her parents were beyond worried. They anxiously waited all night for her to come home, but she never showed up. Eventually, in desperation, Rina's mom, Suman, called the Sonnich police, but they told her they needed to wait 48 hours before they could take action. For the next 48 hours, Suman and Manjit Verk waited anxiously by the phone. In desperation, they found an address book in Rina's room and called all the numbers

in it. One of Rina's friends said she was supposed to meet Rina at Walmart that night, but she never actually showed. Another friend said she'd seen Rina around the bridge. By Monday morning at Shoreline School, rumors began to spread about an assault that happened under the bridge on Friday night. Rina Verk was named as being the victim of the assault. One of the girls bragged to many that she was responsible and said things that insinuated

Rina might not be coming back to class, ever. It didn't take long for the rumors to reach parents and guardians who reported them to police. By now, the 48-hour waiting period for Rina was well and truly up. There were no names attached to the rumors in terms of who was involved in the assault, so the police started by questioning the kids to get more information. They interviewed some of Rina's known friends from school as well as the group home, but the teens were tight lipped.

Not one of them claimed to know who was involved in the rumored attack or what happened to Rina, and all the information they gave seemed to be second or third hand. All they knew for sure was that Rina hadn't been seen or heard from since the Friday night. The police were now drowning in a sea of teenage rumors. Nevertheless, the more police looked at it, the more concerned they became, and Rina's parents were convinced that something bad had happened. Four days after the attack, the police received a breakthrough. A resident and another group home came to them with a troubling story, and this time

it was not a rumor, it was first hand information. There were names given and detailed information. She told the police that a girl at her group home had been boasting about a vicious attack on a girl named Rina. The assault was not random, it had been planned for days. In fact, people had been called beforehand and were invited to meet under the bridge to participate in the attack on Rina. Others heard about it and asked to participate because they wanted revenge for things that

Rina had allegedly done. Armed with this information, the police upgraded the file from a missing person to a full blown criminal investigation. First, they searched the area under the bridge to look for physical evidence of a possible crime scene. One side of the bridge was accessible and easily searched, nothing there. The other side was overgrown with weeds growing up out of the water, so a search by foot would be in vain.

The search party would either need to be on the water, in the water, or in the air to see this part of the shoreline. The police canvassed the neighborhood, but this didn't yield any more information. Finally, they were able to obtain the name of a girl who actually took part in the assault, so the police made a beeline to interview her. She was open and honest and described in detail a vicious and deliberate attack on 14 year old Rina Verk. Here's what she said happened.

Rina went down under the Craigflower Bridge with two girls who linked arms with her, girls she thought were her friends. The girl telling the story said it was dark and creepy under the bridge. When they got there, there were a group of about 20 teens waiting for them. A bunch of them formed a semi-circle around Rina. They accused Rina of hitting on one of their boyfriends and bragging about it. They told her that she'd stolen one girl's phone number book and had been calling up boys from it and asking them out.

And they were angry about it. They wanted revenge. The attack started with one of the girls, now known to be Nicole Cook, stamping out a cigarette on Rina's forehead. Then, seven others joined her. In total, seven girls and one boy began hitting, punching and kicking her. Trying to defend herself, Rina was crying out, please, leave me alone. During the beating, one teen onlooker said, stop, she's had enough.

The teen emphasised that if the group wanted to do anything more, they'd have to go through her. This seemed to put a dampener on things and the teens hung around for a little while longer and then left. They still had time to get home before curfew. Back to the police station now and the teen who was giving all this information to police also gave up all their names. Most of the teens were known to the police, but one in particular stood out, Kelly Marie

Allard. One of the RCMP officers, Krista Hobday, was shocked. Her family was friends with Kelly's family. They socialised together and went to special events together. In fact, she'd known Kelly since she was nine years old. The Kelly she knew was a normal high school student who came from a middle class neighbourhood. The name being on the list was puzzling, but the police had to focus on their first priority, finding Rena.

And now they had a concrete list of people to speak to. They planned a carefully coordinated roundup of all the teens named. Timing was crucial. They arrested them all at the same time and took them into separate rooms at the station for questioning. It was pandemonium at the police station. Others were crying, teens were protesting innocents, but the awful truth came out. Although there was some variance in their stories, there was a key timeline, story and

involvement of one particular person. Here's what happened next after the first attack under the bridge. Rena was left alone, crying, lying in the mud under the bridge. She had a bloody nose, her eyes were swollen and no one was there to help her. After a few minutes, she gathered the strength to get up and climbed the stairs up to the bridge. She started to walk across the bridge in the direction of her parents' house, but she wasn't alone.

Two of the teens had stayed behind and were following her. One was Kelly Ellard, 15 years old. The girl who the RCMP officer knew personally and was surprised to see on the list. And the other was the only male at the scene, Warren Glowacki, 16 years old. Neither of these two actually even knew Rena personally until this night. So who were they? Kelly Ellard was born August the 9th, 1982. She was Caucasian and very attractive in a classical way with dark brown hair.

According to her grandmother, she was a good kid who was devastated by her parents' divorce when she was 8 years old. Her mother remarried, giving Kelly a stepfather, a respected soccer coach who had played in the World Cup for Canada. By her mother Susan's accounts, Kelly's middle-class family life was a fairly happy one. Her mum later said that she never missed curfew. Her grandmother said she loved animals and poetry. But despite a happy home life, Kelly seemed to have a taste for the dark side of life.

She chose to hang out with a rough crowd. She swore at teachers and was suspended twice, once for drinking alcohol in a bathroom and once for damaging a washroom. In August 1997, in an eerie foreshadowing of the attack on Rena three months later, Kelly and several other girls lured a girl to a remote spot, beat her and tried to set her hair afire. Kelly was never charged, but the others were convicted. In another incident, Kelly was caught holding a knife to a classmate's throat.

According to school records, she was disruptive in class and truant. She was known to have violent tendencies. Some people even referred to her as sociopathic. Warren Glowatsky was born April 26, 1981 in Medicine Hart, Alberta. He was short, skinny and had dark brown hair and a baby face. His parents had stayed together just to raise him. They moved frequently and had lived in several other provinces, including Saskatchewan. Warren's mum was an alcoholic and his father left her in 1996 when Warren was 15.

He and Warren moved to Nanaimo on Vancouver Island and in 1997 they settled in a trailer home in Saanich. Then, Warren started dating his classmates, I read her heartily and before long their relationship became quite serious. Warren was into gangster rap and affiliated himself with a local Crips gang. He was initiated into the group that year, 1996, by enduring a beating the gang members gave him. At school, he was known for wearing the gang's trademark colours.

The next year, the summer of 1997, just months before Rene Verk's murder, Warren's father married a woman he'd met in Las Vegas and announced he was moving into her place in Southern California. He invited Warren to move in with him, but Warren didn't want to leave his girlfriend. His father left for California and Warren lived by himself in the trailer home. His father sent him check several times a month to live on and his girlfriend's mum would provide meals for him and do his laundry. Warren's girlfriend, Sarita, was one of the first to meet under the bridge the night that

Rene Verk was murdered, but she felt sick and left before the assault took place. Warren offered to take her home, but she declined. She later said she regretted not taking him up on his offer. Back to that fateful Friday night in November 1997, Callie and Warren were said to have gone after Rene to make sure she didn't rat anyone out after the assault. When they caught up to her, she said through tears, quote, fuck off, just leave me alone. They then grabbed her hands and told her they were going to walk her home. Instead, they dragged her to the other side of the bridge on a grassy patch and demanded

she remove her jacket and clothes. They started the physical assault again and Rene fell to the ground. They picked her up and hit her head against a tree which rendered her unconscious. They dragged her over to the water and as they did her pants started to slide off her. Once at the water's edge, Callie Allard held Rene's head under the water with her foot. She then took out her packet of cigarettes and lit one up. She smoked the entire cigarette while holding Rene's head under the water with her foot. The reason the police knew this was because Callie Allard had bragged to a number of people

about it. These details shocked even the most experienced of officers. They now had a homicide on their hands and a body to find. But first, they needed to complete the interviews with all the teens involved. Another witness said she returned to the crime scene the following morning with Callie to dispose of Rene's jacket and shoes which had been left there. All the witnesses, except one, consistently said they believed Rene's body was in the gorge waterway.

Back at the police station, the last to be interviewed was Callie Allard, who was interrogated for over two hours. As they waited for the interview to begin, Sergeant Ross Poulton of the Sanish Police explained to Callie's shocked mother that they were just trying to get to the bottom of what happened to a girl named Rene Verk. Callie replied from her mother's lap where her head was laying. Rene, I thought her name was Trina, and then yawned. During the interview, Callie claimed she was surprised and couldn't believe she was

considered a suspect in the murder. At one point, she said to Sergeant Poulton, quote, I'm a girl, I never thought girls get arrested for murder. It's not very ladylike. Sergeant Poulton replied, you don't strike me as someone who is concerned about being very ladylike. In her police interview, Callie pleaded her innocence, stating, quote, this is Victoria, nobody gets murdered in Victoria.

Callie did admit she threw the first punch at Rene, but denied any involvement in her death. She suggested that Rene had been abducted after the attack. When Sergeant Poulton left the room, Callie demanded that her mother take her home, saying, quote, you own me, you are my mother, you can say I want to take her home. On November 22, 1996, the six girls involved in the first attack were charged with assault, causing bodily harm. Under the Young Offenders Act, their details were kept private.

All of them, including Nicole Cook, the girl who started the attack by extinguishing a cigarette on Rene's forehead, voluntarily outed themselves years later when they participated in documentaries and media interviews. The remaining two, Callie Ellard and Warren Glowacki, were charged with second degree murder. Because of the sheer brutality of the crime, Crown Council successfully applied to have them bumped from Young Offenders to Adult Court. There were no longer Young Offenders, and their privacy was no longer protected. While the eight teens were detained, police focused their attention on finding Rene's

body. It didn't take long. Eight days after the assault, police searching the area made a tragic discovery. A special police dive team was dispatched under the bridge. At the same time, a second search was conducted in the air. The chopper was only in the air for about 15 minutes. It had flown down the gorge and over the bridge. About 200 metres past the bridge, they saw Rene's body in the water.

They immediately called ground crew who sent the dive team over. They took care in preserving her body as they removed it from the water. Her pants were down and she was missing her shoes. By this point, the media had noticed the divers and police presence in the area and had converged on the area to find out what was going on. They were congregated on the opposite shore. While Rene's body was being prepared for delivery to the coroner's office, two officers immediately drove to Rene's parents place to break the grim news.

While awaiting for Rene's autopsy, police swooped in on Kelly Ellard's house with a warrant in hand. In the laundry room closet, they found a black jacket that was positively identified as the same one that Rene Verk was wearing the night she was murdered. As they continued to speak with witnesses, they learned that Kelly Ellard had run into a group of people on the other side of the bridge and told them that she killed Rene. They saw she was soaking wet. She then went up the street, asked a stranger for a cigarette and told him she had killed

Rene. She bragged to anyone and everyone that would listen. She took people back to the crime scene for a tour, showing them where she did what to Rene and warning them not to tell anyone. Within the group, she became known as Killer Kelly. As for Warren Glowacki, how did one male get involved in a female fight? Some said he was interested in Kelly Ellard, which is a little far-fetched given the fact that he declined to move to Las Vegas with his father because he didn't want to leave

his girlfriend Sarita. Also, he'd offered to take her home that night when she wasn't feeling well. Others said he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and got caught up in the gang mentality, a more believable theory given his affiliation with the Crips. In the days after Rene's murder, Warren did some boasting of his own. His story was that he'd beaten up an Aboriginal man who had insulted Kelly, a tale of male bravado that he concocted to explain the dirt and blood on his clothes. He admitted this was a lie to one person, a friend that he thought would be sympathetic

about his involvement in the murder because the friend had recently been in a conflict with South Asians. Understandably, the community was shocked at what happened. At the time, it was the most high-profile homicide that had happened in the area. There was a public outpouring of grief with a growing number of flowers and tributes gathering at the bridge. The police were holding multiple press conferences each day as the public struggled to come to terms with what had happened and why.

That level of violence was not common in Victoria. The autopsy results came back, revealing that Rene Verk had received 12 to 18 blows to her head and face. She had severe bruising over her entire skull, forehead and cheeks, as well as on the back of her head, showing the pattern from the sole of a running shoe. Her brain was swollen from the beating and she had other severe internal injuries including a crushed small bowel and bruised pelvis, stomach, liver and pancreas. The report said her internal injuries were caused by a force equal to that sustained

in a serious car accident. There were pebbles found lodged in Rene's throat, which was consistent with someone drowning face down in shallow water. The pathologist concluded that while the official cause of death was drowning, Rene likely wouldn't have survived the second beating by Kelly Allard and Warren Glawatsky. Do you have a passion project that you're ready to take to the next level? Squarespace makes it easy for anyone to create an engaging web presence, grow a brand and sell anything, from your products to the content you create and even your time.

When I launched this passion project six years ago, I needed some kind of online hub to manage all the non-podcasting tasks that come with podcasting. I chose Squarespace because it's an all-in-one platform that seamlessly helps me achieve multiple goals. It's important to have a website that looks good and I was inspired by Squarespace's wide selection of clean and modern templates. They can be easily customized with pre-built layouts and flexible design tools to fit your needs and you can even browse the category of your business to see examples of what others

have done. I use the built-in blogging tools to create a new page for each episode and there are so many intuitive options from embedding an audio player so listeners can stream episodes to scheduling posts to be published on a certain date, an easily moderated comments section and automatically displaying recent episodes on the homepage. Every Squarespace website and online store includes SEO tools to help you maximize your visibility in search engines. And I love the powerful insights I can get from the analytics tools, helping me better

understand who's visiting the site, where they came from and how they're interacting with it. Do you have a passion project or business idea or something to sell? Go to squarespace.com slash ctc for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code CTC to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Go to squarespace.com slash ctc with offer code CTC and get your passion project off the ground today. In February 1998, in a Vancouver youth court three months after Rena's murder, the six

girls who took part in the original attack were convicted of assault causing bodily harm. There were given sentences ranging from 60 days to one year in youth custody. In April of the following year, 1999, Warren Glowatsky went to trial in adult court with the judge ruling against a publication ban on the details of the case. He pleaded not guilty telling the court that he took part in Rena's assault and helped drag her down to the water but had no idea that Kelly was planning to kill Rena. In June of 1999, Warren was found guilty of second degree murder and sentenced to life

in prison without parole for at least seven years, the maximum. Upon sentencing, Justice Malcolm Macaulay said that Warren would have a better chance of rehabilitation by participating in programs and receiving an education at the Medium Security Federal Matsquee Institution in British Columbia than he would at a youth facility. Six two and a half years later, in 2001, Warren Glowatsky appealed his conviction and lost. The BC Court of Appeal ruled that he actively took part in Rena's murder. In November 2004, Warren Glowatsky then aged 23, applied for parole. While in prison, he discovered that he was of Metis heritage, a group recognized as one

of Canada's Aboriginal peoples along with First Nations and Inuit peoples. Warren had participated in a restorative justice program with Rena's parents. Restorative justice is a program in Canadian corrections that places emphasis on healing the harm done by the offence and rehabilitating the offender to avoid future harms. Rena's parents willingly participated in the program and they began a relationship with Warren as part of it in which he apologized in person for the crime. Warren said he was a changed man as a result of the discovery of his heritage and also his realization of the pain he caused.

But the board denied his request, saying he wasn't quite there yet. Rena's parents, Sue Mann and Manjeet Verk, didn't object to his application for parole. In July 2006, at age 25, Warren applied for unescorted temporary absences from prison. He told the panel he'd now come to terms with his past and his attraction to gangs and violence. He said he now knew he was a dangerously impulsive man and could recognize the triggers for his violent behavior. He said he was a different person and acknowledged the pain he'd caused to others. He said he was ready to take the next step in his life and asked the parole board members

to trust him. Rena Verk's remarkable parents, Sue Mann and Manjeet spoke at the hearing, saying that the young man was on the right path and that they supported him getting unescorted absences as he continued to serve his life sentence. The panel members agreed, noting Warren's positive record while in prison. His application was approved and he was granted unescorted temporary absences from prison. His next step would be to apply for full day parole. At the end of the hearing, Warren thanked the Verks, giving each of them a hug.

In June 2007, 26-year-old Warren Glowacki made another application for day parole, which allows an offender to participate in community-based activities in preparation for full parole ausgetatory release. Warren had embraced his native Metis heritage and invited an Aboriginal elder to do a traditional smudge ceremony at the start of a parole hearing. A smudging is an important part of Metis spirituality and involves the burning of sage or sweet grass in a ceremonial context. Warren said, quote, my thoughts back then were about being powerful.

I call it bravado or trying to be a gangster. I was screaming out for attention and all the wrong places and I got it. Speaking through tears, he said that meeting Reena's parents moved him more than anything else. Manjit and Suman were again in attendance and gave their support. The parole board heard that Warren Glowacki took rehabilitation courses in prison and spoke as a mentor to young people at risk of getting involved in crime. He said he hates to think of how he stood by and watched Cali Allard hold Reena Verk's

head underwater. I feel ashamed, he said. I wish I could crawl under a rock. The board made its decision in just 25 minutes. Warren was granted day parole. Suman Verk hugged Warren tightly while Manjit shook his hand. Suman told reporters, quote, we would have hoped that somebody would have learned something from this whole thing and so far it looks like Warren has done that.

Out of all the accused in this whole process, he's the only one that has done that. She said she can see how Warren is no longer the angry, scared teenager that he once was, quote. Today, I think we see a young man who has taken responsibility for his actions and is trying to amend the wrong that he did. After he was granted day parole, Warren tearfully thanked Reena's parents for their support, telling them that, quote, I hope that one day I will be able to be as caring and selfless. I don't take your support for granted.

In June 2010, almost 13 years after Reena Verk's murder, 29-year-old Warren Glowacki applied for full parole. He said what he did was a cowardly act, quote, I hated myself. I think that night I turned that hate outward. Stoic through most of their hearing, Warren showed a brief flash of emotion as he spoke about coming face to face with Reena's father, quote, if I had a child and this happened to my child, you bet your ass I'd be seething with anger. Instead, he said, Reena's father told him to go out and do good with his life so that

there was a meaning to his daughter's death. Warren Glowacki was granted full parole that day. He had mentioned he wanted to take a welding course, but it's not publicly known what he's doing now, but he has not been mentioned in the media again. As for Callie Ellard, in a Vancouver Island youth facility not long after her arrest in 1997, an incident report says that she was overheard saying, quote, until I'm sentenced, I'm going to be good because I have to. After that, I'm just going to go psycho in here, like in the dining room or something,

because there's guys in here I'd like to punch out and girls too. They're trying to say it was all me and that's bull. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not guilty. I have nothing to do with it, but I'm trying not to get into fights because then they'll think she murdered this girl. While Warren Glowacki's trial was happening, her lawyers had appealed to have her case tried in youth court, but the Supreme Court of Canada refused to hear it, so she too remained an adult court with no publication ban.

In March 2000, Callie Ellard's second degree murder trial opened in Vancouver. In 2017, Callie pleaded not guilty to the charge of second degree murder. Prosecutors portrayed her as the most aggressive in the group of girls who attacked Rena. The court heard from many witnesses, including RCMP officers. More than 10 teenagers testified, saying Callie seemed happy and proud of what she'd done. The defense portrayed Callie as a victim of a conspiracy by a group of young girls trying to protect themselves. Essentially, they tried to say she'd been made the scapegoat.

They tried to paint a picture that, instead, the real killer was probably one of the other six girls who had already been sentenced and was identified only by the initials MPG. They said that after the first attack on Rena, Callie actually went home to bed and was framed. Warren Glowacki was brought to the courthouse twice, but refused to testify. He was the only person who could have put Callie at the murder scene, but he said testifying wasn't in his best interest because it could jeopardize his appeal. He also referred to not wanting to be thought of as a rat in prison. Warren was found guilty of contempt of court.

His lawyer defended his decision to remain silent. He said it was justified under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. He added that at Warren's trial, the crown prosecutor told the judge to reject Warren's story. So why would his testimony at Callie Ellard's trial be valuable all of a sudden? Callie chose to testify in her own defense. It went for three days. She spoke in a soft, girly voice described as the voice of Betty Boop or Shirley Temple. Her demeanour was both aggrieved and bewildered as if she was upset and in disbelief that she

found herself being on trial for second-degree murder. She denied going across the bridge with Warren Glowatsky, saying he and two other girls crossed the bridge and killed Rena. She sobbed in the witness box as the crown's questions grew tougher. She was feisty and showed flashes of frustration, telling the crown to stop asking the same questions and to move on. After two days of deliberations, the jury came back with a verdict. Guilty.

Callie sobbed quietly as they read out the verdict. Renoverk's grandmother walked over to comfort Callie's mother Susan, wrapping her arm around the woman. Callie was led from the courtroom before she could say goodbye to her parents to begin her life sentence. The judge ruled that Callie Ellard must spend at least five years behind bars before she can apply for parole. That was the minimum. Remember Warren Glowatsky received seven years, the maximum.

In her judgement, Judge Nancy Morrison wrote, quote, She has never been violent. There is no history or signs of violence before this event or after. She has always had and remains having an overwhelming love of animals, gentle and caring always with them. But we know this statement was not true, either before the trial or after, as you'll hear soon. On November the 15th, 2000, it was announced that Renoverk's parents sued the teens, arrested in connection with the attack on their daughter. Manjeet Verk, Reno's father, said, quote,

Society doesn't make people take responsibility for their actions. This is one way to make them responsible. The Verks also sued the Greater Victoria School District because they said teachers knew about the violent behaviour of the students involved in Reno's beating. I couldn't find any information about how this ended up. According to a prison incident report in April of 2001, a year after her conviction, Callie was issued a warning after she admitted to setting up a fight in which two female inmates were assaulted by another four inmates.

In a shocking announcement, in February 2003, almost three years after her conviction, the B.C. Court of Appeal ordered a new trial for Callie, then 21 years old. The court ruled that the crown had failed to give her a fair trial by asking improper questions. The judges for the Court of Appeal wrote that the crown's questioning of Callie Allard was unfair and improper. In particular, the question, What reason would these people have to frame you? Apparently the crown had asked the question 18 different times, which they said undermined the presumption of innocence and the doctrine of reasonable doubt.

The reasoning went on to say that, quote, The revulsion of the community to the circumstances of the crime was palpable. It was therefore incumbent on the crown to proceed with special care that the appellant receive a fair trial. Callie had been able to get out on bail during her appeal, but a year later, in March 2004, her bail was revoked after she was charged with assault, causing bodily harm and connection with the beating of a 58-year-old woman in a Vancouver Park. Police said Callie and another young woman were drinking in a park

when they invited an older woman to join them. When they couldn't find a cell phone, they accused the older woman of stealing it. Police said the 58-year-old was punched in the face quite viciously until she broke free and called 911. Callie was ordered back into custody. Three months later, in June 2004, Callie Allard's second trial began. This time, the crown was treading carefully. In five days of testimony, several witnesses came forward to say Callie admitted to killing Rena. One of them was Warren Glowacki, who had a change of heart about testifying. Again, he said he watched Callie drown Rena. The defense counted that Warren lied repeatedly

in his initial statements to police and at his own trial. Again, Callie chose to testify. Her demeanour throughout the trial this time was described as disrespectful, angry, aggressive and unremorseful. She admitted to punching Rena, but says she only did so because she thought Rena was going to hurt one of her friends. She denied drowning her. On her third day of testimony, she seemed to become so frustrated and angry at the crown's persistence that at one point she said, quote, I'm obviously going to be convicted. My life is over. You got what you wanted. I'm going to be convicted. The jury began deliberations. After almost five days,

they passed a note to the judge saying they were deadlocked, writing, quote, All things must come to an end. That time is now. The jury went on to say that the deliberations were extremely difficult and emotionally devastating. They said that exhausted all avenues of deliberation and had reached an impasse that cannot result in a unanimous decision in spite of any further discussion. They said that 11 members had come to an agreement and that one member was holding out. It wasn't known what decision the majority had reached. The judge said he had no alternative but to declare a mistrial. Meanwhile, Kallie's life in prison was as tumultuous as her life

before it had been. An entry in a prison log from the Surrey Raman Center says she complained of anxiety due to the high-profile nature of her case and used it frequently to get extra privileges. She also said she could not share a cell with anyone during the trial because she didn't want a stranger looking at sensitive court material. At one point, she asked that another inmate be moved because she smelled bad and, quote, has a horribly flawed personality. When this inmate wasn't removed, Kallie threatened to assault her. In May 2004, one prison staffer wrote in an incident report that Kallie was, quote, intelligent but appears to be very comfortable with violence as a solution to problems. Three months later, in August 2004, prison staff at

a Surrey Raman Center reported that they found a trace of cocaine on a piece of paper in her cell. Kallie was segregated for seven days. In February of 2005, six months after the mistrial, Kallie Allard went on trial for a third time. This was now seven years after the murder and Kallie was now 22 years old. This time, she didn't testify. Her lawyer attacked the testimony of key crown witnesses, saying almost every one of them described new memories after being prodded by police and the crown. Again, the jury deliberated for five days, but this time they reached a verdict, guilty. Kallie showed no emotion when the verdict was read. Reena's mother, Suman Verk, her eyes brimming with tears, said,

there is no victory here today. There are no winners. We are all losers. In July 2005, Kallie Allard was sentenced to life in prison and this time was given the maximum of seven years before being eligible for parole. The judge called Reena's death a senseless and remorseless crime. So three trials and Kallie is finally convicted, but the story doesn't end here. In September of 2008, after Kallie's defense issued a complaint, the B.C. Court of Appeal overturned her second degree murder conviction. They ordered a fourth trial, saying the trial judge in her third trial erred in his instructions to the jury over testimony. One of the original witnesses testified in the third trial that she'd seen Reena walk across the bridge,

followed a short time later by Kallie and Warren. However, in her written statement to the police only 10 days after the event, she didn't tell police that she saw Reena cross the bridge. The appeal court concluded that the trial judge should have instructed the jury to consider that the statements were inconsistent. But this decision wasn't unanimous. There were three judges in the panel for the Court of Appeal. One of them said he was not persuaded that this absence of instruction by the judge meant that the jury would have incorrectly assessed the evidence. Usually, a split decision like this triggers an automatic appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada, but in January 2009, Kallie Ellard's defense put an unusual bid to stop the court from hearing the

appeal against holding a fourth trial. Obviously, he wanted the fourth trial to go ahead without issue. His reasoning was that the one judge who didn't agree did not differ from the other two judges on matters of law, so the appeal should not be automatic. The Supreme Court of Canada tossed the bid, but did end up upholding the BC appeal court's ruling that it would force another trial. Kallie Ellard got what she wanted, yet another trial. During this time, Kallie applied to be released on bail again until her new trial had been decided upon. But in March 2009, the BC Court of Appeal rejected her application to be released while the Supreme Court of Canada heard arguments on whether a fourth trial should proceed. In the meantime, the Crown decided to

challenge the BC Court of Appeal's decision to hold a fourth trial. It argued that the fact the judge didn't instruct the jury on how to consider the inconsistent statements was in fact inconsequential to the jury's verdict. Crown lawyer John Gordon said, quote, it was never as critical or pivotal as it has become on appeal. In June 2009, the Supreme Court voted on whether to allow a fourth trial or reinstate Kallie's second-degree murder conviction. In an eight-to-one decision, the top court reinstated the murder conviction. The court said that the absence of a limiting instruction in this case did not amount to a legal error, and that while the statements and questions should not have been admitted in evidence, they were essentially harmless. Reena's father, Manjeet

Verk, said 11 years as an inordinate amount of time for a case to work through the legal system, quote, 35 jurors have convicted her, and the defense just keeps beating the system to this day, and the system allowed it, he said, adding that he hoped lawmakers would learn from his daughter's case, quote, is it worth it to drag a case that long, keeping everybody's life in limbo at the expense of taxpayers? Manjeet Verk added that he harbored no malice towards Allard or the legal system, and that he hoped she would get the help she needs to turn her life around. Over the years, as Kallie became eligible to apply for full parole, she waived her right four times. There are many reasons why people may defer their parole application, ranging from them not

feeling ready, to them lacking the support for it, to them feeling like they don't have a chance anyway so sparing themselves the effort. A person is not required to admit their guilt before receiving parole, but risk to the community is the number one focus of the parole board. Kallie had continued to proclaim her innocence through the years, and unlike Warren Glowacki, never once showed remorse for her actions or gave an apology to Rena's family for her part in what happened. In May 2016, 19 years after Rena was murdered, 33-year-old Kallie Allard attended a hearing for her first application for day parole. She wore a blue blouse, and her brown hair, now dyed blonde, was pinned up. Ahead of the hearing, Rena's grandfather said the family no

longer believed Kallie Allard could redeem herself. Quote, If she had admitted her role, and if she had told the truth, then it would have been much better for our conscious, our pain, our satisfaction. At the hearing, Kallie told a two-member panel she had omitted details about Rena Verk's death from her testimony during trial, and admitted that if she hadn't participated, Rena would probably be alive today. When asked by a board member who was responsible for Rena's death, Kallie replied, I believe I am. She said she was 15 years old, a child, and that she wasn't that child anymore. She stressed that her key priority for release is to obtain substance abuse treatment. She told the board that for one year she binged on contraband crystal meth inside prison,

but her last drug use was in June 2015. Kallie, who occasionally cried during her statements, denied holding Rena's head under. Quote, She was unconscious. I didn't need to hold her head under water. There would have been no point. Kallie told the board she now decided to be truthful based on soul searching over the last two years, in part prompted by a conversation with her mother. She said she wrote a private letter to Rena's family about four years prior and asked to speak to them face to face, but was rebuffed. She said saying sorry is not good enough and she believes success and redemption can only occur through re-entering the community. Quote, I want a chance to go out there and grow to be the best person I can be. In delivering the board's decision,

a member commended her for accepting more responsibility, but noted her admission did not match the facts of her conviction. While the board emphasized the progress Kallie had made in accepting responsibility for the murder, member Ian McKenzie also said she came across as quote very entitled in presenting her case for release. It's not speaking from your heart, he said, it's speaking from what is most strategic and beneficial to you. After this decision Kallie was prohibited from applying for day parole again for a year, but this is where the story takes yet another turn. In the years before Kallie Ellard had begun a pen pal relationship with Darwin Dorazan, a male inmate from neighboring prison Matsqui institution. Darwin was serving a 10-year

sentence after pleading guilty in 2012 to 11 counts of break and enter with intent. Darwin, who had gang links, broke into several homes to steal things to finance a heroin addiction, the board noted. He was reportedly in his late 30s when he and Kallie started their pen pal relationship. Now federal inmates are entitled to have private family visits, conjugal visits, every couple of months if they meet specific criteria. These visits happen in cottages or separate buildings on a prison's grounds and can go for a duration of up to 72 hours. These visits are to promote normalcy and help inmates be better prepared for the real world when they get out. Kallie Ellard was approved to have these visits with Darwin Dorazan while he was out on day parole. Kallie's lawyer,

Sarah Rouch, told the media that the couple had been through, quote, huge scrutiny before being allowed to have these conjugal visits. In August 2016, three months after Kallie's unsuccessful bid for day parole, Darwin Dorazan was granted full parole. The parole board noted that he'd been doing well, making healthy decisions and dealing with stress. They said, quote, you dealt with recent serious challenges appropriately and have demonstrated a willingness to accept feedback and rely on your supports. In October 2016, news broke that thanks to the conjugal visits, 34 year old Kallie Ellard was eight months pregnant and Darwin Dorazan, age 41, was the father. Under the mother child residential program, which began in 1997,

babies are able to stay with their incarcerated mother. At the time, Kallie's lawyer said that she'd been thinking a lot about the family of Rene Verk ever since finding out that she was pregnant several months ago. Kallie's lawyer said that she wanted the public to know that she did not get pregnant to help her chances of getting parole, quote, Kallie at all times and especially when she found out she was pregnant has been thinking about the Verk family. She has been reflecting very much on what it means to give life. In November 2016, it was reported that Darwin Dorazan had his parole revoked after correctional services of Canada officials were made aware that he was a person of interest in the May 2016 disappearance of a low level drug dealer. Now

that Darwin is back in jail, he and Kallie are not allowed to meet up because a correctional service policy says that an inmate is not eligible to participate in private family visits with other inmates. In January of this year, 2017, Kallie Ellard, new mother of a baby boy, applied for unascorted releases from prison, asking for up to five escorted absences per month and up to four hours for each absence in the company of a trained escort at all times. Kallie told the parole board the birth of her baby is, quote, the best therapy I could have asked for and the best thing that had happened to her. She said she sees the world through different eyes after becoming a mother. She said she needed to bond with her baby, adding she has big plans for their future and

wanted to start now. The parole board members were unable to reach a decision, so Kallie waited until a new hearing was scheduled. That happened the next month in February. A board member told Kallie she was concerned about her relationship with the baby's father, Darwin Dorizen, who was, of course, back in prison. Kallie responded that the pair had a special pact to rely on each other to avoid drugs or crime. She said it was more motivating to be with someone with a criminal past rather than someone who hadn't been through it. Kallie avoided discussing the breach her partner was alleged to have committed, which put him back in prison, but said that recent events were very disappointing to her. When questioned again about her involvement and Reena Burke's murder, Kallie

again denied holding her head under the water, saying because she was unconscious there was no need for it. When asked about Reena's family, she said, quote, I don't feel like sorry is good enough. Their life has been completely ruined. I wish there was something I could do to make it better. Throughout the hearing, Kallie stressed that while she used to think only of herself, she now understands the consequences of her actions on others. She said she's undergoing therapy to deal with her anxiety and anger issues and that she has not used substances since June 2015 when she last failed a drug test. Kallie stressed to the panel that she didn't get pregnant to help her case with the board. She said she was in shock and scared when she found out

she was pregnant, but then she realized that she needed to make more responsible decisions for the sake of her child. Quote, I'm not in any way using this child to get anything. In reaching its decision, the panel considered Kallie's risk of reoffending her behavior in prison as well as whether the absences are desirable. Ultimately, the board said her behavior had improved since June 2015 when she failed the drug test and her last violent incident was seven years ago. They reached a decision to allow Kallie Allard unescorted day release to go to doctor's appointments and parenting programs with her baby. Here's Reena's mother's reaction in an interview with CTV News. It's disappointing that Kallie's allowed to go out and move around outside of the prison

and it's very disappointing the fact that she was even able to have a child well being incarcerated. Suman, did you have any say at all during this process as to whether she could be released? No, no. The decision is entirely up to the parole board. One parole board member said this ruling is disturbing, but in light of her good behavior, it should be allowed. What do you make of that rationale and that thinking? I think it's not really much you can do or say in this kind of circumstances as a victim of crime because all the power lies with the parole board and so as a victim, you're completely helpless and nothing that's happened surprises me because it seems like Kallie's getting everything she wants

starting with getting a conjugal visit with her boyfriend and then now having a child so I don't understand the rationale of the parole board or the justice system as it is. I believe that once you are a convicted killer, you should not have the same privileges as other members of society. Would you have wanted to have a say in this process or would it be too painful and bring up all the pain that you've felt over the past years? No, I don't think I would have wanted to have a say or because I really believe that it won't make a difference. The powers that be will do what they want to do regardless. Kallie will be allowed to apply for day parole again in May 2017.

Until then, she lives with her baby in a special annex at the Fraser Institution for inmate mothers and their babies. It's essentially a nursery where Kallie has everything she needs to care for her baby properly. So that's where we're at with the case and the trials but what's important is to also discuss the impact that this crime had on Canada. Dominant media portrayals including a best-selling book on the case called Under the Bridge, The True Story of the Murder of Rena Virke by Rebecca Godfrey took the angle that the crime was about bullying and part of a rise in youth and girl violence in Canadian society. The narrative around Kallie Allard was that of the demise of the innocent white girl from a middle-class family. The book even went so far as to blame Kallie's propensity

for violence on the influence of a boy she was dating who considered himself a quote Asian gangster. In the media, Rena Virke played the part of a rebellious youth who lied and disobeyed her parents and by contrast Kallie Allard was described as a good girl who fell in with the wrong crowd, good versus bad girls. The public was up in arms about the fact that girls were going wild and youth crime was on the rise. They lamented the demise of good old-fashioned Canadian values. They expressed sentiment that the Youth Offenders Act needed an overhaul to put a stop to the madness. At the same time, the case inspired much controversy and conversation within academic, South Asian and feminist circles to name a few. Several contributed to a book called

Rena Virke Critical Perspectives on a Canadian Murder by Mifili Rajivar and Shila Bhattachara. They said that the case wasn't about bullying and girl violence but systemic racism in Canada. They likened it to a Canadian lynching. Rena Virke was the odd one out, a South Asian Jehovah's Witness in a primarily white area. They pointed out that Kallie Allard had three trials before she was finally convicted and that no other killer in Canada has been given that many chances. And why did she initially receive the minimum amount before being eligible for parole and Warren Glowacki received the maximum? In response to this, media and other academics pointed out that two of the original teens charged in the assault were young women of colour, so questioned

how it could be a racially motivated crime. Interestingly, Rena's parents took the bullying message to heart and gave talks to local schools about the dangers of bullying and what can happen. In 2009, they produced a DVD called The Rena Virke Story where they spoke with communities, teachers and students, including Warren Glowacki. The video was produced as several different versions for different age groups and is accompanied by a guide for generating discussion after viewing. The discussion of this case continued in school classrooms and academic circles for quite some time. Playwrights wrote plays about Rena Virke. Poets wrote award-winning poems. Many PhD students wrote their thesis on the case and academics analysed it. School classes studied and debated

the issues within the case. In 2010, it was announced that Reese Witherspoon's production company had purchased the rights to the Under the Bridge book and was going to make a film in partnership with two Canadian production companies. The film was supposed to have been released in 2012. To date, this was the last that was ever announced about that film. I can't find any more information on what happened there. There is much more to tell you about young offenders in Canada and the progression of the Young Offenders Act, but I'm feeling a little bit fatigued from the stories of child murders, so I'm going to put this series on ice for the next few episodes and pick it up later. I wanted to thank Beck for being the voice of Callie Allard during her trial.

Beck is the wife of Tyler, who hosts the Minds of Madness podcast. Those two together are voice goals. I also wanted to thank my good friend Callie Dee, who suggested this case to me. If you didn't know, I'm on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. If you'd like to follow, just search for Canadian True Crime, a huge shout out to the lovely Maggie who offered to resurrect my Instagram account from the dead and manage it and for giving me so many laughs along the way. This episode, I have two suggestions for podcasts you should listen to. The first is Twisted Philly, hosted by Dina Marie. This podcast is amazing and Dina's sassy personality makes it a very entertaining listen. Her latest episode is on Nancy Spungen,

who is actually from Philly. Here's Dina. What up? This is Dina Marie, the host of the Twisted Philly podcast. There's more mischief, mayhem and nefarious goings on in the city of brotherly love than Billy Penn could have ever imagined. We've got it all here on the Twisted Philly podcast, True Crime, Haunted History, the coolest and creepiest places to visit. Welcome to Twisted Philly. You don't have to be from Philadelphia or Pennsylvania for that matter to get into this show. You just need to like some seriously weird twisted shit, plus listening to me gush about the places I love to go, the history I love to tell and the really sick twisted crimes we've had going on here since back in the Victorian era. So come sit a spell with me in the city of brotherly love

and sisterly affection. You can find me on iTunes and all the other major podcast apps. My second recommendation is True Crime Fan Club, hosted by the lovely Lainey. Lainey has a very sweet voice which adds something really unique to the dark subject matter of the story she tells. Check out her first episode on Albert Fish. It's really chilling. Here she is. And lastly, here's Jeremy from the Podcast We Listen To podcast and Facebook group to tell you about something really cool coming up next year that you might be interested in. By podcast listeners and yeah, hosts are listeners too. I listen all day long. This is going to be the fall of 2018 in New Orleans and it's going to be a blast. It's being put together by myself.

Members of the podcast we listen to Facebook group and hosts of several of your favorite shows, including Dina from Twisted Philly and Ally from Insight. Fall of 2018 gives us time to put it together right. We're really looking forward to it. There's so much excitement. The podcast we listen to Facebook group is blowing up over it. For more information, you can join the podcast we listen to Facebook group or you can follow at PodCon 2018 on Twitter. And as soon as we finalize more details, we will put those out there for you. In the meantime, just keep listening to your favorite shows and you'll probably hear something about it. So to the thank yous, your reviews, support and kind words really do mean the world to me. A big thanks to everyone who

recommends the podcast in various Facebook groups, including the podcast we listen to group. If you haven't joined that group, you totally should. Thanks to those who left a five star review on the Facebook page since the last episode. Lydia R. Penelope C. Courtney R. Christine C. Sarah B. Kate T. Sarah M. Justin S. Kate W. Livia P. Michelle H. D. F. Charlotte M. Katina J. Dana M. Ashley S. Bobby M. Leslie L. And Michelle R. And thank you to those who've left a five star review on iTunes or Apple Podcast since my last episode. From Canada, Jamie Allport Photography, that's me, Samantha, C Dawson, 7995, Starling, 1-980, Yo Tom's, Cool Beauty Erika, Lady Abby Dabby and Saints One. And from the US,

Kelly N. Allen's Girl, 1-121-206, Dina Phone, Des Boots, Jenna Bug, Texan Daddy of Two, that's Justin Ruff. Thank you, Justin. Bookshelves91, Emily Houston, Care Bear 5101, Bossy Pants, 1-6, Please Go Away, KS Loves Wine, Mary, MJJ Scone, Indigo Chottie, Summer Baby. And I did actually this week get a one star review from Doodle Do 119 who says that the podcast is okay, it's not the best and it's not the worst. So I guess I can't really argue with that logic. Thank you very much, Doodle Do for the constructive criticism. And new reviews from iTunes in the UK from Sowie Six, Jen's Patterson and TL Bill Ups-Nailer. Thank you so much. And lastly, thanks as always to everyone who posted kind words and sent messages on Facebook and Twitter.

I'll be back soon with another Canadian true crime story. I'll see you then. you you you you