Canadian True Crime - A Kingston Predator: Richard Charles Joyce—Part 2

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

[ Part 2 of 2 ] THE PAROLE HEARING: In September 2023, Richard Charles Joyce's first ever parole hearing was held. Not only was it deeply revealing, but new pieces of information also came to light shocked the victims and survivors—and has resulted in several formal complaints.Special thanks to Kerri Kehoe, “Catherine” (mother of survivor “Annie”), and Robert Rouleau.This two-part series is closely connected to the previous episode titled The Nozzles Gas Bar Murder.More informationStaff Sergeant Melanie Jefferies, Kingston Police – 2023 Award WinnerRichard Charles Joyce denied parole in first-ever Canadian long-distance hearing - The KingstonistCanadian True Crime Podcast examines heinous crimes of Kingston's Richard Charles Joyce - The KingstonistPhotos and news clippings will be available at our Facebook and Instagram pagesCanadian True Crime donates monthly to help those facing injustice.This month we have donated to The Children’s Treatment Center in Cornwall, Ontario, who for more than two decades has been providing high-quality counselling services to sexually or physically abused children and their families.Full list of resources, information sources, credits and music credits:See the page for this episode at Hosted on Acast. See for more information.

Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means.
Starting point is 00:00:38 I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Introducing Uber Teen Accounts, an Uber account for your teen with enhanced safety features. Your teen can request a ride with top rated drivers, and you can track every trip on the live map in the Uber app. Uber Teen Accounts. Invite your team to join your Uber account today.
Starting point is 00:01:09 Available in select locations. See app for details. Canadian True Crime is a completely independent production, funded mainly through advertising. You can listen to Canadian True Crime ad-free and early on Amazon music included with Prime, Apple Podcasts, Patreon, and Supercast. The podcast often has disturbing content and course language.
Starting point is 00:01:30 It's not for everyone. Please take care when listening. This is part two of a two-part series. 11 years after Richard Charles Joyce pleaded guilty to his historic crimes against Annie, Jane and Kerry, they were notified that he had indicated he would be applying for full parole. The family of Yvonne Roulot were also notified. They were all extremely concerned. Kerry Kehoe immediately thought of Detective Melanie Jeffries of the Kingston Police,
Starting point is 00:02:09 who had listened intently as she gave all the details of the most difficult hours of her life, and was kind, compassionate, and validating. But perhaps more importantly, Kerry remembers the first thing Detective Jeffries said to her at the end of her police statement. I believe you, Kerry. It was now 2022, and it had been over decades since she summoned the courage to come forward to the police, but she decided to reach back out. Detective Jeffries was now Staff Sergeant Jeffries, and her official role in that case
Starting point is 00:02:46 was long since over, but once again, Kerry found her to be an incredibly supportive ally. She listened attentively to Kerry's concerns and went above and beyond by personally checking in with her and providing emotional support as they waited for further notifications from the parole board. She even offered to attend the parole hearing with Kerry. Kerry was so incredibly grateful that she nominated Staff Sergeant Jeffries for a police award that year, describing her as the epitome of a professional. quote, her honor, integrity, commitment, and service to victims of crime is rare. Staff Sergeant Melanie Jeffries would go on to be awarded the Ontario Police Service's
Starting point is 00:03:34 Hero of the Year 2023 in the Honor Roll category. It wasn't long before Kerry and the other survivors received letters notifying them that a hearing had been scheduled for Richard Charles Joyce and that he was requesting parole as well as escorted temporary absences in the community. Shocked, Kerry suddenly recalled her conversation with the Crown Prosecutor 11 years earlier, where she was told Joyce would be leaving prison in a body bag. She decided to contact the Parole Board of Canada and in numerous conversations with staff members, she was told that the Crown prosecutor had given her an opinion, in quote, the Parole Board of Canada doesn't wear house offenders for the rest of their lives. Kerry was aware, of course, that the Canadian criminal justice system prioritizes
Starting point is 00:04:39 rehabilitation over punishment, but she couldn't understand why the Crown Prosecutor considered it a waste of resources to apply for a dangerous offender designation, and unfortunately the only time to apply for that designation was before the sentencing hearing 12 years earlier. There was nothing that could be done about it now. Kerry had a terrifying realization that everything she believed to be true was not, and she couldn't help but notice that every notification from the Parole Board of Canada listed all of his rights in the process, sometimes two pages worth, and it wasn't the first time. What about a little girl's right to walk down the street without being abducted and brutally assaulted
Starting point is 00:05:25 by a child sex offender? Kerry had been silent in her shock for many months, but she started to feel increasingly concerned and a desire to do something about it. Over the years, she'd developed a close bonding friendship with Annie's mother, Catherine, and she decided to visit her to discuss it. At first, Catherine said she'd spent too long agonising over what
Starting point is 00:05:52 to do that she decided to put the parole board of Canada papers away and forget about it all. Her family would continue to go on with their daily lives. Baccar Kerry's visit that day inadvertently motivated Catherine to face the challenges of preparing for another hearing and writing another victim impact statement. Kerry was struck by Catherine's heartbreak and anguish as a mother, and she felt an enormous amount of pressure to do something, take some kind of action. She knew that Joyce was unlikely to receive full parole, but it was his first parole hearing and there are other options on the table like escorted temporary absences.
Starting point is 00:06:34 Her mind continued to linger on this statement. The Parole Board of Canada doesn't warehouse offenders for the rest of their lives. The Canadian criminal justice system prioritizes rehabilitation, but the fact is that not everyone can be rehabilitated. Pedophilia or pedophilic disorder is a psychological disorder, describing an adult who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. It's a paraphilia or a deviant sexual interest that has a high risk of causing harm and commonly
Starting point is 00:07:14 involves children or non-consenting adults. It's important to note that not all people with pedophilic disorder become child sex offenders and not all child sex offenders actually meet the criteria to be diagnosed as pedophiles. It can also be a crime of opportunity and power. The key diagnostic criteria is that the person must experience recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies and urges involving prepubescent children that they're
Starting point is 00:07:46 either extremely distressed about or have acted on. Acting on those fantasies includes consumption of child sex abuse material or offending against a child. To date, there is no scientific evidence that pedophilia is able to be cured. Certain treatments and therapies can help manage and control harmful behaviors and actions associated with pedophilia. But while the goal of these therapies is risk reduction and prevention of harm to potential victims, there is no rehabilitation for a person with pedophilic disorder.
Starting point is 00:08:22 A key focus of the Parole Board of Canada hearing would include assessing all of this in relation to Richard Charles Joyce. All in all, the prospect of him being granted additional freedoms was an incredibly stressful outcome for the survivors and victims to contemplate, especially in light of the fact that there had already been several close calls.
Starting point is 00:08:46 After all, Joyce had no criminal record when he and Terry Kennedy were convicted of the first-degree murder of Yvonne Roulot. No one knew about his prior pattern of escalation and thanks to good behavior during the first 20 years of his sentence, he'd been cascaded down to minimum security. He was on track for a successful faint hope application and would likely have been released from prison early. The only thing that put an end to 20 years of cold cases was Detective Toe Hill's request to have that DNA resubmitted for testing.
Starting point is 00:09:22 Richard Charles Joyce may have pleaded guilty after the fact, but he never proactively confessed to abducting three children. This suggested to Kerry that the 20 years he spent in prison were not spent reflecting on his crimes. What he did do is appear to be a model prisoner. Kerry Kehoe decided to embark on a media campaign to inform the public about the potential danger of releasing a convicted pedophile and child sex offender back into the community.
Starting point is 00:09:54 She would say, quote, "'I don't believe model prisoners become pedophiles. "'I believe pedophiles become model prisoners "'and cascade their way down to minimum security in the hopes of being granted escorted temporary absences as the beginning of their potential release plans. The parole hearing for Richard Charles Joyce was scheduled for September 7th, 2023, at minimum security William Head Institution where he was serving his sentence on Vancouver
Starting point is 00:10:27 Island, British Columbia, the other side of the country from Kingston, Ontario, where he committed his crimes. After the survivors and victims were notified that the parole hearing would be virtual, Kerry Kehoe found out that there was no limit to how many people could attend, and she had an idea. She decided to do something that's never been done in Canada before, organize the first-ever parole board hearing watch party of its kind, inviting the public to log in and join. She also rented a hall in Kingston out of her own pocket, so the survivors and victims could gather together
Starting point is 00:11:05 in person with their loved ones to watch the live feed, participate in the proceedings and support each other. This was the first time that Kerry and Annie's mother Catherine met members of the Roulot family. Yvonne's brother-in-law, Robert Roulot, who represented the family, had already attended a hearing for Terry Kennedy earlier in 2023. Kennedy was denied parole, but Robert Roulot was back to do it all over again at this hearing for Kennedy's co-accused, Richard Charles Joyce. As the proceedings started, 83 people from coast to coast tuned in to watch the virtual feed.
Starting point is 00:11:48 The survivor we've called Jane may have logged in as well, but did not participate in the proceedings. Richard Charles Joyce was 55 years old by this point, and he'd spent more than half of his life in prison. Once described as pasty and soft-looking, he was now muscular and tanned with noticeably bulging eyes and short-cropped, graying hair, according to Michelle Dari-Forstell, who reported for the Kingstonist. Joyce was dressed in a plain white t-shirt and wore a face mask during the proceedings, sitting mostly with his hands on his lap. He was accompanied by his parole officer and a church volunteer who served as his assistant. The parole board heard victim impact statements
Starting point is 00:12:36 from three of the victims and survivors of Richard Charles Joyce. Robert Roulot described the day their family's lives changed forever, May 6th of 1991, when he received a panicked phone call from his brother Paul, pleading for him to come to Nozzle's Gas Bar because there'd been an incident with Yvonne. Quote, And what was the impact on me directly and my family?
Starting point is 00:13:02 I have never seen my brother in so much pain. His soulmate and life partner ripped from him. The following year was complete hell, as all of their lives were turned upside down and emotions ripped apart with court dates, testimony and trials. Robert helped his brother Paul keep his family together while also looking after his own,
Starting point is 00:13:25 as they all struggled with wounds that time can never heal. Robert Rulo described how Yvonne's family were forced to live that horrible time yet again, 20 years later in 2011, when Kennedy and Joyce applied to the faint hope jury for a chance to appear before the parole board earlier than scheduled. As you'll recall, Terry Kennedy confessed that he'd been holding the knife, but he gave vague details that weren't consistent
Starting point is 00:13:56 with the forensic evidence, and his motivation appeared to be the opportunity for early release from prison. The faint hope jury prevented him from applying again. Robert Rulow didn't mention Kennedy's confession specifically, but the family's position was obvious in his next comment about Richard Charles Joyce. Quote, Mr. Joyce beat my sister-in-law,
Starting point is 00:14:21 forced her to open the safe, and then stabbed her repeatedly, not once, not twice, but 37 times. 37 times that knife went up in the air and was driving into my brother's beloved wife. Afterwards, Mr. Joy slit her throat and left her to die on the floor. Robert Roulot urged the parole board to not be fooled by reports of good behavior, adding that it's clear that Richard Charles Joyce is an actor who will become whatever character is needed to get out of prison. Carrie Kehoe had been through an immense amount of trauma in her childhood, from her father's drowning death when she was just
Starting point is 00:15:05 three years old, to being abducted by Joyce when she was 11. But that wasn't all. There was that other tragedy in her extended family that happened in the months before her father passed away, and she decided to share it with the Parole Board of Canada as part of her victim impact statement. to share it with the Parole Board of Canada as part of her victim impact statement. Kerry told the board that in 1982, her two-year-old first cousin had been murdered by a known child sex offender fresh out of prison. The offender's name was Dwayne Edward Taylor, and he'd been released to a half-wayhouse after serving two-thirds of his four-year sentence for sexually assaulting another four-year-old girl. Just 11 days after his release from prison, Taylor abducted sexually assaulted and murdered
Starting point is 00:15:57 little April Morrison, who lived near the half-wayhouse. Two-year-old April was the sister of the same cousins who invited Kerry to meet them to go swimming eight years later. In her victim impact statement at Joyce's parole hearing in 2023, Kerry used her cousin's case to highlight just how important these parole board decisions are. She reminded the board that a decision to approve parole or escorted temporary absences to individuals who have committed such heinous crimes raises serious concerns about community safety.
Starting point is 00:16:36 Quote, there is no cure for pedophilia and having been at the mercy of the evil that sits before you, I can say there isn't a shadow of a doubt that Richard Joyce is a danger to the community, just like Dwayne Taylor was before the Parole Board of Canada granted his release. Annie's mother Catherine echoed these sentiments, telling the board that their family strongly opposed any additional freedoms for Joyce because every child has a right to live in their community without fear.
Starting point is 00:17:10 Catherine recounted how her daughter's disposition and temperament changed dramatically after she was abducted. Annie never spoke about what happened to her again and she regressed to a point where she was diagnosed with various mental health issues. Quote, our daughter has suffered greatly from an attack on the soul.
Starting point is 00:17:32 She suffers quietly, not talking of it. To this day, Annie still requires assistance in all aspects of daily living. in all aspects of daily living. The Parole Board also received joint community impact statements from several groups, including the Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime and Victim Services of Kingston and Frontenac, urging the Board to consider the impact and gravity of Joyce's actions when making their decision. Referring to the research in the field
Starting point is 00:18:08 that shows there is no known cure for pedophilia, the argument was that allowing for Joyce's release, quote, leads to undue risks to the community as it gives the offender room to cause more harm. His criminal history has already shown a pattern of escalation and today, the board may put power back in his hands. The Parole Board of Canada heard from Richard Charles Joyce's assistant, a female chaplain from a local church who said she visits the prison
Starting point is 00:18:39 once a month and meets with inmates in the chapel. This assistant called him Rick and described him as a friend, praising him for opening up to her. She said he had demonstrated that he's aiming to adapt, not just to get out of prison, but to stay out of prison. She put him to be at low risk. This assistant didn't mention having any qualifications to declare a convicted child sex offender and murderer to be low risk. Her comments were uninformed at best and they did not sit well with Kerry Kehoe and many others. Of course, companionship is a basic human need, but friendship with a convicted sex offender and murderer does not require
Starting point is 00:19:26 advocating for them to be released from prison. This assistant and chaplain clarified that her goal was not to convert Joyce to Christianity, but acknowledged that her church pastor was available should Joyce decide he wanted to. Joyce's parole officer, Eleanor Creighton, was next. She told the board that Joyce recognizes he's not ready for full parole yet, and the focus of her briefing would be his application for escorted temporary absences in the community, which she supported. Parole officer Creighton described the aggravating factors in the case, or the factors that would have a negative effect on Joyce's application. Obviously, the fact that he abducted and sexually assaulted three vulnerable children
Starting point is 00:20:14 was a key aggravating factor, as was his participation in the murder and torture of Yvonne Roulot. Creighton said that Joyce had participated in in fellow metric testing, which assesses a male's level of sexual arousal when exposing him to specific stimuli. The stimuli that resulted in his highest responses depicted coercive sexual encounters between an adult male and a female child approaching puberty. He also responded significantly to depictions of sexual activity between an adult male and a possibly cooperative female child. It should be noted that a child cannot give consent for sexual activity and the only way they might be considered cooperative would be through a process of grooming. When Joyce was presented with purely adult stimuli, his response was determined to be insignificant. While there were
Starting point is 00:21:13 no other aggravating factors mentioned by his parole officer, it should be noted that these results are consistent with pedophilic disorder and widespread research findings that there is no cure for pedophilia. There was no mention of this or the field of research available. Peroll officer Creighton then moved to mitigating factors, the factors that would have a positive effect on Joyce's parole application. He was again described as the perfect model prisoner, well-behaved, fulfilling his duties and obligations, passing all his drug tests. The board would note that good institutional behavior is an expectation and not related to his potential risk to the community if released.
Starting point is 00:22:02 Joyce had also successfully taken a number of programs related to violence, anger management and two sex offender programs called High Intensity Sex Offender and Battery Sex Offender Maintenance. But the last specialist correctional program he completed was seven years earlier in 2016, which the board described as somewhat concerning. Joyce's parole officer referred to recent psychological reports on his file that indicated he'd been assessed as presenting a low to moderate risk of violent and general reoffending and a moderate risk for sexual reoffending. This was in the mitigating factors section.
Starting point is 00:22:46 The parole officer did state that there had been a notable reduction in his overall risk, and that if Joyce were to be given any additional freedoms like escorted temporary absences, he would not be allowed to have contact with children or be anywhere where there might be access to children. It appeared that Richard Charles Joyce's last psychiatric evaluation was in 2001, nine years before his crimes against children came to light, and there was no information about
Starting point is 00:23:19 any possible assessment after that that confirmed a diagnosis of depression or pedophilic disorder. The Parole Board of Canada asked his parole officer about such a psychiatric report, but she was vague and wasn't able to provide a definitive answer. It should also be noted that the victims and survivors report that overall, Joyce's parole officer spoke so fast and sounded so nervous that they could barely understand what she was saying. This alone was incredibly frustrating for them. Parole officer Eleanor Creighton would be called back later to answer more questions, and what she would say would shock everyone in the room. legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked
Starting point is 00:24:29 to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. store and ACAST Creative. Hi everyone.
Starting point is 00:25:09 Today we're talking passion projects that turn into careers, a topic that obviously resonates quite a bit with me. In collaboration with the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAST Creative, I want to introduce you to someone who took his passion for cannabis, turned it into a career and is now an industry trailblazer. This is Nico Soziak. He's the chief financial officer of Canara Biotech, a prominent producer based in Montreal. Nico, I know that you've had a passion for cannabis for quite a few years, but you seem a lot younger than what I was expecting. I have to know how and when you got into the cannabis business. Yeah, absolutely.
Starting point is 00:25:49 I look younger, but I'm aging by the day, but I'm 35 years old. I got into cannabis about five years ago, started with Canara. But you were a consumer before that. Yeah, I've been a consumer. I had friends in the legacy side of the business and watch what they did I tried the different strains and genetics watched how they grew Really found a passion for cannabis and the products, but my professional career is an accountant So while I had a passion for cannabis
Starting point is 00:26:18 I was also a straight-A student Wow, and then a candidate decided to legal cannabis. And that was when I was like, okay, this is kind of my calling. I have to try to figure out how do I can get into the industry. And Canara had just became a public company. I joined them in April 2019 and built the finance department here at Canara and worked with the founder. And at one point I was given the keys to that. And now I'm here today. Wow, that's such a cool story. So how do you feel about being called a trailblazer in the legal market now? It's an honour.
Starting point is 00:26:55 I've looked up to many trailblazers in this industry today that come from the legacy side that went to legal. You know, I'm happy to be part of that. So actually I wanted to ask you about the legacy market. How did you incorporate it into operations on the legal side? I don't pretend that the cannabis market just got created in 2017. Right. For me, legacy means that everyone that's been working, all the businesses that have been in the industry, pre legalization.
Starting point is 00:27:20 I'm not going to reinvent the wheel in terms of thinking, I know what consumers want. There's been an industry that's been built for many, many, many years. So it's all the ideas and creations that were pre-legalization, figuring out how do we evolve that into the legal side with all the regulatory frameworks. What would you say is the best part of working in the legal market? Knowing that your product is clean, knowing what you're consuming, we're ensuring quality, we're ensuring the price.
Starting point is 00:27:47 I think we're ahead of other industries. Okay, so final question. What gets you excited to go to work every day? This is my dream. This is my passion. I get excited. Work doesn't feel like work for me. When you're creating things that you dream about,
Starting point is 00:28:03 I give the idea to the team. The team is able to execute different innovations. That's what really gets me excited. Thanks for listening to this Trailblazer story, brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAST Creative. If you like the trail Niko Soziak is blazing, you will love what's happening in legal cannabis.
Starting point is 00:28:23 Visit slash Trailblazers to learn more. The Board questioned Richard Charles Joyce himself to assess his risk to the community given additional freedoms. This would be the first time that those who had been victimized by him heard him speak about anything at length. Kerry noticed that he spoke with a clear, flat affect, with no emotion whatsoever and anything he said. Joyce stated that his co-accused Terry Kennedy had admitted to murdering Yvonne Roulot.
Starting point is 00:29:10 Although he claimed he didn't murder her himself, he did accept that the crime would not have happened without his involvement. When asked what happened to the murder weapon, the knife, he said they threw it away in a dumping ground later that day. The board pressed Joyce about the over-the-top level of violence involved in what was supposed to be a robbery, and he claimed to not have an answer for that. The board would conclude that, quote, it is not clear exactly what Kennedy accepted responsibility for and how much Joyce may have participated
Starting point is 00:29:45 in the beating that preceded the slitting of the victim's throat. It was noted that testing the truthfulness of Kennedy's confession was challenging given there was no collaborative information from Joyce about who did what. When Richard Charles Joyce was questioned about comments he was overheard saying after he and Terry Kennedy were first arrested, he claimed they didn't match the facts of the offence. Although the board pointed out that all of this conversation evidence had been admitted by the trial judge, he continued to deflect questions in a similar way while also claiming to have taken responsibility for his own involvement. Joyce had stated that he had a good
Starting point is 00:30:33 upbringing with a good, decent and supportive family, and when asked how he went from that to the crimes he committed, he blamed it all on depression that started when he was in his early teens. He claimed this depression caused him to look for, quote, stronger and stronger experiences, so he could feel some form of happiness, and said that the only time he felt happy was when he was with his family and his nieces, or when he was having sex. The board pointed out that many people are depressed, but very few of them commit the kinds of crimes he committed. Joyce had no answer for why or how he became
Starting point is 00:31:15 sexually attracted to pre-bubescent girls, and no explanation for why he didn't turn to his loving, supportive family for help at that time. He claimed he sank so low in depression that he stopped feeling emotions and had no empathy towards others at the time. But he insisted it was all behind him now because he gradually started feeling again
Starting point is 00:31:40 about 15 years into his prison sentence. But that's not all. In the lead-up to the faint hope hearing he requested, during the years where he now claimed he'd started feeling remorse, empathy, and a feeling of accountability as he put it, he'd also started having personal family visits with his young niece who was developmentally challenged. It would be noted that his niece was of a similar age to his sexual assault victims when these visits started.
Starting point is 00:32:14 Kerry Kehoe was utterly shocked to hear this. Perhaps even more so was Catherine, the mother of Annie who has Down syndrome, and the first of the three little girls to be abducted by Richard Joyce. They couldn't help but wonder if Annie really was his first victim. Even though no one else knew about his previous deviant sexual acts at the time, the fact that Joyce knew about it and chose to place himself and a young family member in such a compromising position was worrisome to the board. When asked about this, Joyce insisted he never offended against his young niece,
Starting point is 00:32:54 but the board pointed out that he never proactively confessed to the additional sexual crimes against children either. And the fact that he was also applying to the faint hope jury at the time indicated that he did not believe he would ever be held accountable for those crimes and that he was likely to have been granted a release without anyone knowing the risk he posed to children. This was described as calculated and manipulative on his part. Joyce insisted that he did feel remorse for those crimes, but he didn't want to lose everything he had at the time,
Starting point is 00:33:29 like his family's emotional support. And as he expected, he said his family did stop contacting him after he was charged with those additional crimes. The board asked him about a note in his file where he claimed his depression led him to sexually offend against children because he wanted to quote, steal their happiness. Joyce responded by insisting that steal wasn't the right word. He actually meant he wanted to share their happiness. He said the little girl seemed happy
Starting point is 00:34:05 when he saw them walking down the street, and he thought they would be able to make him happy as well. It was pointed out to him that the little girls were crying and begging for their lives. Is this what Joyce defines as sharing happiness? He used a knife to threaten and overpower them when he was a grown man of decent height who could have controlled them with his size alone.
Starting point is 00:34:30 He beat one of them with a snow brush. Joyce was asked why, for him, happiness is connected to violence, fear and sexual assault. He conceded there was a disconnect and instead offered an explanation about his second known abduction of 9-year-old Jane. He said he'd just finished having sex with his girlfriend and he was happy during that time but miserable again when it finished, so he went out looking for something to make him happy. The board pointed out that Joyce had reported having a lot of casual,
Starting point is 00:35:06 consensual sex over 50 sexual encounters by the time he was about 20 years old. If his happiness was so closely tied to sex and he appeared to have no problems finding a woman his own age to have sex with, why didn't he just do that? After multiple unsuccessful attempts to explain his actions, Joyce agreed with the suggestion that he wanted a feeling of power and control, and he used sex as a tool to accomplish that. As a childhood victim of Richard Charles Joyce, Kerry Kehoe described him as sounding psychopathic.
Starting point is 00:35:44 He spoke of his heinous crimes against young children as though he was describing what he'd eaten for breakfast. In another point of the hearing, a Parole Board of Canada member pointed out that having no empathy, no emotion, was a key element of psychopathy. The clinical term for psychopathy is anti-social personality disorder, a mental health condition where a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong, ignores the rights and feelings of others, and lacks empathy, remorse, and regret. And just like pedophilic disorder, there are treatments, but no cure. pedophilic disorder, there are treatments, but no cure.
Starting point is 00:36:27 The parole board asked Joyce how often he was still having fantasies. He said he had general fantasies a couple of times a month and inappropriate ones about half that time. Put another way, Richard Charles Joyce was still having fantasies about pre-pubescent girls about once a month, which is consistent with pedophilic disorder. When asked how he manages them, he referred to a switching technique that involves halting a fantasy, thinking about new ideas and switching it out with something else. He rated himself to be at a low danger to prepubescent girls.
Starting point is 00:37:06 To find out what other steps Joyce had taken to mitigate his risk to the public, the board pointed out that after consulting with psychiatrists, several of his psychologists had suggested that he consider anti-androgen medication, also referred to as chemical castration. The medication reduces testosterone levels with the intention to reduce sex drive, aggressiveness, and motivation to reoffend. The board noted that a combination of medication and treatment has been shown to reduce the risk and asked Joyce if he had explored this.
Starting point is 00:37:43 At first, he claimed he didn't remember any psychologist suggesting that he take medication. After being challenged by the board, he conceded that one professional had asked him if he wanted to take medication and readily accepted his answer, which was, no, not really. He gave a vague reason that amounted to him
Starting point is 00:38:04 not feeling that he needed it. Joyce was challenged by the board again, who first acknowledged that making his own medication decisions is his right, but the role of the parole board is to assess his risk to the public if released. So if he says he feels remorseful and he still has sexual attraction to children, wouldn't he want to do everything in his power to minimize his risk of reoffending? The 55-year-old continued to claim he had his fantasies involving prepubescent girls under control and he didn't feel he needed those treatments. The Parole Board of Canada's written decision would state, quote, you have admitted to a long-standing fantasy life involving children,
Starting point is 00:38:52 but your proven capacity to withhold information raises questions in the board's mind about how transparent you will be in the future. At another point in the hearing, the parole board asked Joyce what he would do if he started to feel depressed again, and he said he is able to self-report when he feels it getting to that point. As part of this conversation, the board heard that Joyce had been allowed to work outside the prison grounds, clearing wood and brush. His parole officer, Eleanor Creighton, was called back to describe how this came about, and she said Joyce had a
Starting point is 00:39:31 position of trust that meant he could have easily walked off site. She stated that there was no concern with him doing that. This was news to Kerry Kehoe and those on the victim's side, who were of course hearing this for the first time while sitting in a formal parole board of Canada hearing where Joyce was asking for more freedoms. The board was surprised too. Parole Officer Creighton was asked if Joyce had permanent clearance and after a hesitant pause she answered yes. But when asked what kind of clearance it was and who approved it, she wasn't able to answer with any clarity. After an awkward pause, the parole board members moved on to another topic. To Kerry, it appeared that Joyce's parole officer wanted the parole board to have the
Starting point is 00:40:21 impression that he was unsupervised during this time and could have escaped custody at any time but chose not to and therefore he could be trusted with additional privileges. But she had no idea that Joyce had already been awarded this level of freedom and as it turned out no one else did either. After the hearing, Kerry would contact the acting warden of William Head Institution for clarity, where she would learn that in no way was Richard Charles Joyce in a position of trust, as his parole officer stated,
Starting point is 00:40:58 nor could he have simply just walked down the road. He did have specific approval to work outside the grounds, but he was still within the perimeter of William Head Institution at all times, fully supervised, and was never permitted to leave. Eventually, Kerry would be told that the incorrect statements given by parole officer Creighton about Joyce's level
Starting point is 00:41:22 of freedom while working just outside the prison grounds, were determined to be a human error in judgment that Cretan reportedly regretted. Kerry has submitted several formal complaints and there's a lot more to report on this, which we'll have to say for a later update. But this whole situation speaks to yet another part of our criminal justice system
Starting point is 00:41:46 that is broken. There seems to be no reasonable expectation of correct and factual information being presented at a parole board hearing. And when that hearing is about a convicted murderer and violent child sexual predator asking for additional privileges and freedoms, facts matter. In delivering its decision, the Parole Board of Canada noted the ways Joyce's past and current behaviour has not been consistent with transparency or taking accountability. After all, he pleaded not guilty to the murder of Yvonne Roulot. He was only found guilty at trial, and he then exercised his right to appeal, a process that did not result in an account of what actually happened that day. And while he had previously abducted and unlawfully confined three young girls, thrashing them
Starting point is 00:42:41 at Knife Point and brutally sexually assaulted them. It was only through DNA evidence after two decades in prison that he was associated with those crimes. Quote, at no time did you mention your deviancy issues, despite admissions that you continue to engage in problematic sexual fantasies. The board also noted that there is no confirmation of his claims of depression or whether they would meet a mental health diagnosis, and despite him being assessed as a medium risk to sexually re-offend, there was no analysis specifically relating to pedophilic disorder. The written decision also stated that at some point Joyce was given the psychopathy checklist and scored
Starting point is 00:43:26 in the low-risk range but hasn't been re-scored since. Overall, he was told that he needed a much more robust psychiatric report. The board found it concerning that Joyce lacked or wasn't able to articulate an understanding of why or how he became involved in such crimes or how he suddenly began to feel again. Quote, while you claim that you were deeply depressed and couldn't feel emotions for a decade or longer, you cannot explain why you acted with such violence and indifference to the harm you were causing.
Starting point is 00:44:02 The way he spoke with a flat and non-emotional affect was also noted. Although he claimed that he can now feel emotions, he didn't actually express any emotion whatsoever as he spoke about his role in some of the most heinous crimes that could be imagined. Overall, the board described Joyce's plan to self-manage his risk factors as overly simplistic and not well-defined. After all, his plan relied on his own ability to identify when he might be at an elevated risk to re-offend in his own capacity
Starting point is 00:44:37 to seek assistance from others. And given his historic lack of transparency, not to mention his abilities in impression management or efforts to influence how others perceive him, this was a problem. The Parole Board of Canada concluded that his risk to reoffend on a full parole release is undue or more extreme than appropriate. Full parole was denied, and so too were escorted temporary absences. In the rented hall in Kingston where Kerry and the other victims and supporters were watching and participating,
Starting point is 00:45:17 there was loud and enthusiastic cheering. The man responsible for their pain and anguish had claimed his crimes were a result of depression that caused him not to feel. Without a hint of emotion in his voice, Joyce had insisted that while in prison, leading up to his ill-fated faint hope hearing, he had started to feel emotion again, remorse and a feeling of accountability. But his actions don't reflect that. In 2011, after DNA connected Joyce to the crimes committed against Jane and he dropped his
Starting point is 00:45:52 faint hope hearing and pleaded guilty, the judge asked him if there was anything he wanted to say before he was sentenced. His lawyer replied on his behalf that he didn't. Months later, when he pleaded guilty to the crimes committed against Kerry and Annie, the judge asked him again. Here's how that conversation went down. All right, Mr. Joyce, before I pass sentence, is there anything you want to say, sir? No, Your Honor. Do you have any idea what your conduct, the effect your conduct has on other people that you come in contact with?
Starting point is 00:46:27 Yes. How? It's taken time, but I have developed an understanding of it, which is why I wanted to put this behind me as fast as possible so everybody can find closure. Mr. Joyce, this is the third time I have to sentence you for extremely serious sexual abuse. A truly remorseful person would be able to demonstrate that emotion through their voice and the words that they chose to speak.
Starting point is 00:46:52 At no time has Joyce done that. And obviously, an apology is never going to bring Yvonne Roulot back or give Kerry, Annie and Jane their childhoods back, but not once has Joyce ever offered any kind of apology for his heinous crimes, even when pressed on the issue. This parole hearing may have been over, but it's never the end for those on the victim's side, because they know that before too long, there will likely be another parole application
Starting point is 00:47:24 on the horizon and another parole hearing for them to dread. Although it's another five years until Richard Charles Joyce can apply for full parole again, he can continue to apply for additional freedoms like escorted temporary absences each year. The Rulow family is already in preparation mode for another application involving Terry Kennedy. Kerry Kehoe kept what happened to her secret for more than 20 years, but today she is a passionate advocate, dynamic organizer and public speaker, sharing her story wherever she can because, quote,
Starting point is 00:48:06 God forbid there may be others who have kept their own trauma a secret for too long. In the two weeks leading up to this episode, Kerry had an idea to organize an event in Kingston where her community could gather together to listen to these episodes before they're released to the public. We've been working together intensively for months now and I couldn't not be there, so I jumped on the train to Kingston to join them on Tuesday night, February 13th, at the Holiday Inn Express West. Thank you so much to all the incredible staff there who made it a breeze. About 60 people gathered for the event, including Kerry Kehoe, Robert Rulo and other members of the Rulo family. It was amazing to meet you all.
Starting point is 00:48:53 There were also people from Victim Services, a counsellor from the Children's Treatment Centre in Cornwall, Ontario, two federal MPs who drove from Ottawa to attend, and the son of the former Kingston Police Chief. There were quite a few podcast listeners there as well that I didn't expect. Thank you all for coming, and abela, don't forget to email me.
Starting point is 00:49:17 My colleague Lindsay put together a slideshow to go with the episode, and it was a really moving experience for us all to listen and watch together. Many boxes of tissues were used, relationships started healing and new leads to information were revealed. The following day, Kerri took me on a tour of sorts to show me where Nozzle's Gas Bar used to be, which is now a shopper's drug mart. She showed me the convenience store where Jane walked to get the bag of chips that night. It's still there, just with a different name. Kerry showed me the house she lived in and the road she ran down after Joyce dropped her
Starting point is 00:49:55 back in the neighborhood. If I were a journalist, I may have remembered to turn my phone recorder on, but I was completely engrossed in the moment. She also drove me past the apartment complex where Joyce and Kennedy lived. I was dismayed to see an old elementary school building just around the corner. Carrie drove me to the house where Annie lives with her mother, Catherine, and family. They invited us in with open arms, and we had a lovely visit and conversation. I can't put into words how meaningful it was to meet them. After that, Carrie and I decompressed at lunch where we shared a few tears. She is even more amazing in person, an incredibly generous individual. There are things going
Starting point is 00:50:43 on behind the scenes and it's been an emotionally exhausting week, but in the coming months, I hope to bring Carrie onto the show for an update. Until then, please see our social media accounts on Facebook and Instagram for photos and clippings from these episodes and the event.
Starting point is 00:51:01 Just search for Canadian True Crime. in the event. Just search for Canadian true crime. Kerry's goal is to do everything she can to educate the public about the dangers of people like Richard Charles Joyce being released from prison and to protect children from ever coming into contact with him if he is. with him if he is. She also wants to reinforce the message that if there are other potential victims who chose to stay silent like her, it's never too late to come forward to the police and be believed. There is a whole community of support waiting for you. Thanks for listening and special thanks to Keri Kehoe, Catherine, the mother of survivor
Starting point is 00:51:59 Annie and Robert Roulot. In putting together this episode, I contacted William Head Institution to request a media interview with Richard Charles Joyce. For a particular reason that later turned out to be a misunderstanding, I was relieved when he declined. The information in this episode has been taken from court documents and media files sent to me
Starting point is 00:52:23 by Kerry Kehoe, as well as news archives which included the reporting of Sue Yanagisawa for the Kingston Wig Standard and Michelle Dorey-Forstel for the Kingstonist. For the full list of resources and anything else you want to know about the podcast, visit Canadian True Crime donates Monthly to Those Facing Injustice. This month we have donated to the Children's Treatment Centre in Cornwall, Ontario, who for more than two decades has been providing high quality counselling services to sexually
Starting point is 00:52:57 or physically abused children and their families. Learn more at If you found this episode compelling, we'd love for you to tell a friend. Share the episode on social media or leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Audio editing was by Nico from the Inky Paul Print, aka We Talk of Dreams, who also composed the theme songs, and Production Assistance was by Jesse from the Inky Paul Print. Carol Weinberg is our script consultant.
Starting point is 00:53:30 Research, writing, narration and sound design was by me, and the disclaimer was voiced by Eric Crosby. I'll be back soon with another Canadian True Crime episode. See you then. Hi, it's Terrio Riley, host of Under the Influence. Recently we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed,
Starting point is 00:54:32 how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures.
Starting point is 00:55:10 Or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the Earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at slash write the future.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.