Canadian True Crime - Alfred and Rosemary Podgis [2]

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

[Part 2 of 2] Was Canadian Teenager David Curtis an innocent party who unexpectedly found himself in the middle of a very bad situation? Or was there something more sinister at play? In this episode: the trial.The intention of this series is to take a look back at a shocking crime sensationalized through headlines across the US and Canada, and explore its impact on relevant communities.Some names have been changed to respect the privacy of those involved.Canadian True Crime donates monthly to those facing injustice.This month we have donated to the Canadian Mental Health Association, who advocates and provides resources for the 1 in 5 people in Canada who have a mental illness. Listen now, ad-free, on CTC premium feeds: available on Amazon Music (included with Prime), Apple Podcasts, Patreon and Supercast.Full list of resources, information sources, credits and music credits:See the page for this episode at www.canadiantruecrime.ca/episodes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world. If you're looking for reliable cellular coverage across Canada, you can rely on Fizz thanks to the power of their mobile network in collaboration with trusted national partners. And get this, there's no hidden fees or false promises. See, Fizz does things differently. They're a hundred percent online, completely transparent and always put their

members first. Within minutes, you can create a fully customized mobile plan that has everything you want and nothing you don't. Say hello to choosing data, calls and more. And goodbye to sneaky contracts and surprise fee hikes. With Fizz, you're not locked in and you're free to change your plan as often as you need. Leave whenever you want with no grudges, but you probably won't want to. The longer you stay with Fizz the more rewards you get, like free data and dollars off your plan. Your unused data rolls over to the next month.

You paid for it so you should keep it. Speaking of data, right now you can get 10 gigabytes of data plus $25 using the promo code FizzC. Switching to Fizz is easy. Visit Fizz.ca with promo code FizzC, that's F-I-Z-Z-C, for mobile services from a company that actually cares. Fizz.ca. Furnishing a living room can be a hassle. From waiting weeks for delivery

to lugging heavy couches through doorways and sometimes realizing that the furniture doesn't quite fit your space. Enter Cozy, an innovative Canadian furniture company. Their pieces are comfortable, high quality, and modular, with compact boxes that are easy to carry upstairs and free two to five day shipping. Cozy Furniture is designed to grow with you.

Maybe it's a small loveseat to start, but when you move house or add members to your family, it's also easy to add modular pieces and expand that loveseat or even reconfigure it into a gorgeous welcoming sectional. Check out the unmatched comfort of Cozy's Cielo Sofa Collection. It's plush, cloud-like and invites you to sink into it after a long day. If you have guests to stay, they'll love the style and comfort of Cozy's Neptune Sofa

Bed. And you'll love the versatility in the sleep kit option with sheets and pillows. With free shipping and a 30-day risk-free trial, you can't go wrong. Transform your living space today with Cozy. Visit Cozy.ca, spelled C-O-Z-E-Y, to start customizing your furniture, Cozy.ca. often has disturbing content and coarse language. It's not for everyone. Please take care when listening. This is part two of a two-part series. Just a reminder that some names have been changed to protect privacy. Where we left off, shy Canadian teenager David Curtis arrived in New Jersey to discover everything his friend had told him was a lie. Scott Franz did not live in a mansion on the Jersey shore. He lived in a chaotic mess with his mother and a very angry stepfather who was physically violent towards them both. And it only got worse after that.

Scott claimed his stepfather shot at him from the main bedroom and missed. The following morning Alfred shot at him again and this time Scott fired back, delivering a fatal shot to the 58-year-old's head. But then he heard a gunshot from downstairs and ran down to find David Curtis, his Canadian houseguest, standing next to the body of his 56-year-old mother, Rosemary Pogess. After they cleaned up the blood and loaded the bodies into the family's van, Scott and David fled, dumping the bodies in a Pennsylvania state park. Within a week, the police had caught up with the teenage fugitives in Texas. Scott

Franz gave a full statement to investigators, saying he shot his stepfather Alfred Pogess in self-defense, and David Curtis reacted and shot his mother Rosemary by accident. But some of the details Scott gave didn't add up, and David Curtis might have been able to help with that, but not until his parents had arranged a lawyer for him. Michael Shotland was reluctant to take on the case. In his early 40s with a young family, he was looking to get out of the high-stakes drama of defending accused murderers in New Jersey. But when a colleague was too busy, Shotlin took one for the team. He arrived at Monmouth County Prison in New Jersey to meet his new client, who had just

been transferred back to face first degree murder charges. He found David Curtis to be a pale, thin teenager who seemed to be shutting down psychologically. But David seemed ready to give his side of the story directly to his lawyer. He said that the morning of the shooting, quote, I was sort of in a daze, half in and half out of sleep, and I heard Scott's mother Rosemary talking. Scott said we were going back to Nova Scotia, and she said at least have breakfast

before you go. Scott suggested French toast. Then Scott said, I can't take it anymore, that he had to have a shower because he felt grimy. I remember hearing shots. I grabbed the gun and ran and Scott's mother was coming around the corner and it went off. I don't know if I pulled the trigger or if it went off by itself. It was like my emotions were dictating me. It was like fear and not knowing what End quote. mother. He's saying, she's dead. She's dead. I can't leave her like that." End quote. As for why they didn't just call 911 right then and there, David told his lawyer that Scott wanted to break the news to his sisters before he involved the police. David said it made sense to him at the time, quote, it just

didn't seem like something the police should be involved with right away. They would be told exactly what happened later on. That's how Scott wanted to do it, to work it out within the family, figure out exactly what to do. Scott's big concern was that he couldn't leave his mother lying there like that. So we got them out of the house. And the other thing too was, it was sort of like washing away sins,

because if you replace everything and make it as if nothing had ever happened, then you would return the house to its original state. David told his lawyer that the reason he didn't fight any of the decisions Scott made afterwards, including fleeing and getting rid of the bodies, was because he was in shock and entirely in over his head. He said he never even considered calling his own parents in Nova Scotia because he felt like he was living in some kind of altered reality shaped by Scott.

Michael Shotland believed his client and when the autopsy report came back, it seemed to back up David's story as well. While Alfred Pogess was shot in the head, Rosemary Pogess had been shot in the lower abdomen from an odd angle, the.30 caliber bullet moving across and down to her left hip. It clearly did enough damage to kill the 56-year-old within minutes, but the trajectory didn't exactly scream intentional shooting in cold blood. Still, it wouldn't be an easy case. Michael Shotland advised Alice and Jim Curtis that in his opinion,

the best scenario for their son David was an acquittal and the worst would be a manslaughter conviction. Minimum three years in a US prison. But while Shotland found the 18 yearold to be intelligent and credible, he also thought that he was a very strange young man. Whether David had always been strange or if the trauma of the crime had changed him, he didn't know. But Shotlin didn't think the teenager would be able to confidently defend himself in court.

To be sure, he hired a psychologist to conduct a proper assessment of David in conjunction with a review of the other evidence up to that point. The doctor backed up David's story, concluding, quote, In my opinion, David fired the rifle in a startle reaction and the report of the autopsy in the path of the bullet as well as the fact that he was not used to firearms makes me feel that the shooting was certainly unintentional. The flight, after the act, indicated a panicked reaction. Certainly, the shooting was an additional stressor. I think that David was in a situation where he reacted to his friends' actions as a follower. I feel he was suffering from an adjustment disorder at the time of the shootings, brought on by the foreign environment in which he found himself." After David's first court appearance and arraignment, his parents could finally visit

him at Monmouth County Jail. They were shocked to find him gaunt and dazed at an old prison that was clearly overcrowded and teetering on crisis. Alice was deeply worried about her son. She wondered how David was ever going to survive this ordeal or if they even had enough resources to properly defend him. Things may have seemed dire enough but the Curtis family had no idea there was more bad news on the horizon. The police were highly suspicious of Scott Frans and behind the scenes that suspicion

extended to David Curtis. They were bewildered by the Canadian teenager and refused to believe Rosemary Pogess' death could have been an accident. But why would the shy nerdy kid kill his friend's mother? Police had found a backpack outside in the grass filled with clothes, books and a personal diary belonging to one David Curtis. Scott had tossed it there after their first failed attempt to escape. The contents of this diary only made the police more suspicious. There was that one entry that seemed particularly dark.

David wrote, quote, I really wish I had been there. I could have saved her. Too late, everybody got to go. Everything we had crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see. Swirling into madness, whirling, twisting to the sight of demons robed in black. Revenge is very necessary. Goodbye, Patricia." As it turned out, Patricia was an old friend from David's previous school, and after he moved to King's Edge Hill Private Boarding School in grade 11, he was devastated to learn

Patricia had died by suicide. David would explain to his lawyer that he was trying to cope with Patricia's death in the best way he knew how. Writing He had always been an avid writer, filling his notebooks and diaries with dark, philosophical poems and short stories in a similar style of his favourite authors, which included Russian literature and the Gothic poems of Edgar Allan Poe. David said he wrote in part to sort out his conflicting feelings about life and death, religion and science, reason and emotion.

He had taken Patricia's suicide hard, he said, and a lot of his poems and short stories from around that time reflected his unresolved grief and existential angst. But there were other entries in his diary that concerned the police even more. One was a vivid poem dated June 4th 1982, less than a month before his fateful trip to New Jersey. It read in part quote long to be dead under while worms chew and mutilate my shrunken pale skin I am nothing but dirt contributing to well-being plants grow upon me peace exists never chaos always throwing us about fly off, blood dims our sigh, and we walk like a drunkard, stumbling over our dead friends." To investigators,

this wasn't the normal poetic musing of a troubled teen trying to cope with the suicide of a close friend. It was potential evidence against David's claim that he shot Rosemary Poggis by accident. Especially this one. Quote, A difference, however. I am fully aware of my madness and thoughts. My intellect still reigns supreme. I want power. That way I achieve mortality. Something I shall also strive for in the physical sense. Police and the county prosecutors saw this particular entry as pure darkness, the psychopathic ramblings of a clearly disturbed mind. There was another diary entry that included a graphic scene depicting sex between two men. David would tell both his lawyer and later author David Hayes that those scenes were copied out of an erotic novel

that his late friend Patricia had shared with him. But investigators couldn't help but compare the case to Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb, two wealthy teens from Chicago who abducted and killed a 14-year-old boy in 1924 just for fun. Leopold and Loeb were believed to have been in a romantic relationship and wanted to get away with the perfect crime. Both were eventually sentenced to life in prison. Even if David's diary entry was proof of some sexual or romantic element to his relationship with Scott Franz, it wasn't proof of intent to murder. But the police were developing a theory that the two 18-year-olds killed Alfred and Rosemary Pogess just for kicks.

They just needed more evidence. They just needed more evidence. Prosecutors sent a couple of New Jersey investigators to Nova Scotia to find out more about David Curtis and Scott Franz, their friendship, and their time at King's Edge Hill School, the private boarding school they both attended in Nova Scotia, and they certainly got an earful. They learned Scott was a chronic liar

with an exaggerated New Jersey accent. He fancied himself a ladies man and told countless stories about his wealthy family back in the United States. He often got caught with alcohol. Many of his fellow students thought he was an untrustworthy, streetwise con artist. As for David Curtis, he came across as a weird loner who had an off-putting superiority complex. His own roommate described him as not normal. Unlike Scott, David seemed to have no interest in the ladies, but there was no evidence of any romantic feelings or sexual relationship between them. But that didn't matter to the New Jersey police. Everything they heard in Nova Scotia merely reinforced their working theory about two misfits who found each other, fueled each other, and inspired each other to commit double murder.

And when they heard about those mysterious incidents at King's Edge Hill School, it only convinced them further. That teaching assistant who saw two figures resembling Scott and David fleeing the school lab, and how Scott showed up at parties with a jar of chloroform. There was another incident where a young teacher felt sick after drinking a milkshake Scott bought for her at Dairy Queen. And shortly before grade 12 graduation, two students were hospitalized after drinking sodas they believed had been poisoned by Scott Franz and David Curtis. Neither were ever charged with a crime, but in light of the killings in New Jersey,

those incidents became a kind of criminal foreshadowing. Scott and David simply escalated their behavior from poisonings to murder. The New Jersey investigators left Nova Scotia feeling like they had a very strong case against Scott Franz. But the case against his Canadian friend David Curtis was a little weaker. Back in New Jersey, bail had been set for them both at $250,000. Neither of their families could afford it. While the prosecutors continued to assemble their case, David Curtis' lawyer tried to

get his bail reduced. The Curtis family had a counteroffer. They would put up $25,000 and their farm, and Alice Curtis would move to New Jersey so she could personally monitor her son while out on bail. The judge denied the request. After all, David fled the first time all the way to Texas. So what was stopping him from running again, this time over an international border? Meanwhile, his defense lawyer Michael Shotland was interviewing Scott Franz's siblings and

step-siblings to find out more about the family dynamic and what went on in that home. They backed up Scott's stories about Alfred Pogess' violence and each provided their own accounts of Alfred beating them up and threatening to kill them. They all described Rosemary as a passive, hapless mother. They'd witnessed her being abused and assaulted by Alfred Pogess. Scott's siblings believed his claim that he killed his stepfather in self-defense. They also reported that Scott told them multiple times that his Canadian friend David had shot their mother by accident. Just two weeks before their joint trial was due to begin, Scott Franz was suddenly separated from David Curtis at the Monmouth County Jail.

David would later say that was the moment he realised his friend was going to turn on him. You know that person who loves taking photos and plans to print and frame them but they just end up sitting on their phone. That was me until I found Aura Frames. There's a reason it's named the number one digital frame by Wirecutter. Aura looks like a gorgeous modern picture frame. It's also full of surprises and incredibly easy to use. I'm on a nostalgia kick and I've loaded my Aura frame with my favorite funny photos from years ago, like my son's guilty toddler face when he got

into the pantry and made quite the mess. We can laugh together now that I don't have to clean it up. And it's not just photos. With Aura, you can upload video clips too and relive those sweet moments together. Like when the kids met our new dog for the first time, instead of wasting away on the camera roll. Aura easily pairs with your devices and home wifi. The free app is a breeze to use.

And with free, unlimited storage, you can breeze to use, and with free unlimited storage you can upload as many photos and videos as you want. Right now you can save on the perfect gift that keeps on giving by visiting AuraFrames.com. For a limited time listeners can get $25 off their best selling Carver Mat Frame with code CTC. That's A-U-R-A frames.com, promo code CTC. And don't forget to mention that we sent you to show your support for the show.

Terms and conditions apply, AuraFrames.com. If you're looking for reliable cellular coverage across Canada, you can rely on Fizz, thanks to the power of their mobile network in collaboration with trusted national partners. And get this, there's no hidden fees or false promises. See, Fizz does things differently. They're a hundred percent online, completely transparent and always put their members first. Within minutes you can create a fully customized mobile plan

that has everything you want and nothing you don't. Say hello to choosing data, calls, and more, and goodbye to sneaky contracts and surprise fee hikes. With Fizz, you're not locked in and you're free to change your plan as often as you need. Leave whenever you want with no grudges, but you probably won't want to. The longer you stay with Fizz, the more rewards you get, like free data and dollars off your plan. Your unused data rolls over to the next month.

You paid for it so you should keep it. Speaking of data, right now you can get 10 gigabytes of data plus $25 using the promo code FizzC. Switching to Fizz is easy. Visit Fizz.ca with promo code FizzC, that's F-I-Z-Z-C, for mobile services from a company that actually cares. Fizz.ca. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities.

Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility. Moving you moves the world. Thanks for supporting Canadian True Crime by listening to these messages from our sponsors. We appreciate it. Scott Franz reached a plea deal with the prosecution. He was going to plead guilty to first-degree murder and had agreed to testify against David Curtis. There would no longer be a joint trial or a joint defence. In exchange, prosecutors would recommend a lighter sentence for Scott with earlier parole.

This was obviously a devastating turn for David Curtis. So why did Scott Franz suddenly turn on him? It was largely on the advice of his own defence lawyer. Behind the scenes, Scott's lawyer was struggling to put together an airtight defence. The version of events that Scott originally gave to investigators included several key details that were not consistent with the police investigation. There was of course that bullet lodged in the bedroom door jam that Scott said was the result of Alfred Pogge's shooting at him the day before the killings and missing. He claimed this convinced him that his stepfather was actively trying to kill him and that's

why he and David broke into Alfred's locked mail truck that evening to get two.30 calibre rifles for protection. But the bullet found in the door jamb came from one of those two rifles, not the 22 calibre rifle Alfred had been holding. This led investigators to wonder if Scott shot the door jamb himself to set up a claim of self-defence. There was also the fact that just days before the killings, Scott had purchased a box of .30 caliber ammunition. He told investigators that his mother had asked him to buy it for his stepfather, but that seemed unlikely.

These pieces of circumstantial evidence suggested planning and intent, and there was more. Scott had told investigators that he shot her stepfather from across the room and that Alfred was sitting up in bed with the pillows behind him. But according to the prosecution, the Philadelphia medical examiner who conducted the autopsies was ready to testify that the rifle's muzzle was in direct contact with Alfred Pogess' head and shot brain, blood and bone debris down into the pillow. It suggested Alfred was lying down at the time. This was new. Scott's lawyer checked the medical examiner's original autopsy report.

It didn't mention anything about a direct contact wound or even an opinion on the possible distance between the rifle and Alfred's head. By this point it had been more than six months since the killings and the bodies had already been buried. Scott's lawyer requested to have them exhumed for a second autopsy opinion, but it was denied. He realised it was going to be very difficult to prove that his client was acting in self-defense with this new testimony that Alfred Pogess may have been shot when he was asleep. That's the definition of in cold blood. Scott's lawyer was aware that the county prosecutors pretty

much decided all evidence pointed to premeditated murder. They were building a case that Scott was the one who planned it, and his weird Canadian friend helped him. It would be an uphill battle for the defence. Scott Franz would confirm that he took the deal to plead guilty to first-degree murder because his lawyer advised him to. He was still facing jail time, of course, but he might be out on parole in 10 years instead of rotting in prison for the rest of his life. But another factor that motivated Scott was money.

His sister, Barbara, the one who supervised Alfred and Rosemary Pogess at the post office and called the police when they didn't show up for work, told him she did not have the resources to pay for his defence through a lengthy murder trial. No one else did either. So Scott folded and pleaded guilty to first degree murder. Now, he was going to be the prosecution's star witness against his friend, David Curtis. Because the county prosecutors no longer had to prove

that Scott Franz killed his stepfather, Alfred Pogis, they could narrow their focus on building the case that David Curtis did not shoot Rosemary Pogis by accident. Top of mind was those stories from King's Edge Hill School in Nova Scotia involving the lab thefts and the alleged poisonings. It was only circumstantial evidence and both Scott and David denied any involvement at the time.

But when prosecutors questioned Scott Franz about it in the lead up to the trial, he suddenly changed his story. Now he stated that David was the one who stole chemicals from the lab, and it was David's idea to prank a teacher and other students by slipping a noxious substance in their drinks. In this latest version of the story, Scott was just the follower and David the mastermind. The county prosecutors decided the same would go for the murders of Alfred and Rosemary Pogess. They were confident they could convict David Curtis based on Scott's testimony.

They also hoped that David would be put on the stand to testify in his own defence, so they could question him about those diary entries. The prosecution's case would be that David Curtis had a diary of dark thoughts and bad intentions that he brought to the United States and offloaded on the Podgess house in New Jersey with catastrophic consequences. Right before David Curtis' trial was about to begin, the original judge assigned to the case had to pull out with health problems. Their new judge was the Honourable John P Arnone. His nickname was Never Come Home Again

Arnone, and he was known to be as tough on crime as judges get. This was not good news for David Curtis. His defence lawyer Michael Shotland's strategy was to paint Scott Franz as a habitual liar who chose a plea bargain to save his own skin. And because Scott's story had changed several times, whatever he was going to testify to on the stand could not be trusted either. And Shotland was worried about his client. All those months in jail had turned David Curtis into a shadow of his former self, paler, even more withdrawn and nervous.

And if he put him on the stand, testifying would be difficult enough. But David would also face a tough cross-examination, especially if the prosecutor was able to have those diary entries admitted as evidence. Shotlin believed David when he said those entries were written in the shadow of grief and that he was mirroring the same dark philosophical style as his own favourite authors. But in the context of a murder trial, those entries might be gravely misperceived. The lawyer was keen to keep David Curtis off the stand, although he wouldn't advise the prosecution about this until later. The trial began in March of 1983, eight months after the killings.

Every major newspaper in New Jersey followed the crime and the subsequent investigation and reporters showed up in droves to cover the trial. The Star Ledger, The Daily Patriot, The Asbury Park Press, not to mention all the big Canadian papers and local Nova Scotia papers as well. In his opening remarks, David Curtis's defence lawyer Michael Shotland described his client as an unassuming small-town Canadian kid who grew up on a farm in placid rural Nova Scotia. The filth and chaos of the Podgis home in New Jersey had been completely disorienting to him. David had never experienced that kind of

environment before. Shotland described it as a house of violence. The court would hear testimony from multiple witnesses corroborating the stories of regular arguments and violence at the Podgis household, how they heard screaming regularly and the sounds of physical fighting a few times a month. Neighbours would testify they saw the two teenagers, terrified, hiding in the bushes next to the house that same week as they were trying to avoid Alfred. Michael Shotland reminded the jury that they would be relying on the testimony of Scott Franz, who agreed to plead guilty and discredit his own friend in exchange for the promise of a lighter sentence. He describes Scott as a liar, quote, He has never told the truth and he is not telling the truth now because he doesn't know the difference between what is true and what is not true.

All he is doing is trying to save his own neck. The prosecution's case was that Rosemary Poggis was not shot by accident. Paul Cheyette, first assistant prosecutor for Monmouth County, suggested that David Curtis was resentful of the treatment he'd witnessed and experienced during his stay at the Poggis home that week. David was described as being quote filled with red revenge when he shot Rosemary Poggess. His actions afterwards were described

as cold and calculated. On day two of the trial, police officers testified and the jury was shown graphic photos of the bodies of Alfred and Rosemary Pogess and distressing videotape of the crime scene including blood-spattered walls. Although Scott Franz had already pleaded guilty to shooting Alfred Pogess in the head, the prosecutor arranged for the jury to also see close-up photos of Alfred's shattered face. David Curtis's lawyer Michael Shotland repeatedly objected. His client had nothing to do with Alfred's murder. This trial was about Rosemary Poggers and whether David Curtis shot her in the lower abdomen intentionally or by accident.

But it was to no avail. Jar Jar Known denied his objections. On day three of the trial, a ballistics expert took the stand. He demonstrated how the.30 caliber rifle that killed Rosemary Poggers had a tricky safety lever. At one point, when the lever was moved during the demonstration, the gun accidentally fired in the courtroom. It obviously wasn't loaded, but the misfire was entered as evidence of an accidental firing. David Curtis' defence lawyer could not have scripted a better moment.

When the prosecution's star witness, Scott Franz, took to the stand the next day, the courtroom was full, the upstairs gallery at capacity. As he entered the courtroom, he avoided eye contact with his former friend David Curtis. In fact, Scott barely raised his head or his voice while reiterating the litany of abuse he and David had experienced that week, how Alfred Pogess yelled at him when David's plane was late and how it only got worse from there. Scott testified that the abuse escalated all week, leading up to his claim that Alfred took a shot at him from the bedroom in a fit of rage.

But then, Scott's testimony took a sharp detour from his original statement to police. He'd originally said that when he and David broke into Alfred Pogess' mail truck to get the two 30 caliber rifles, he had taken some ammunition out of one and loaded it into the other, because David had no clue how to load a rifle. But now, on the stand, Scott Franz claimed he had nothing to do with any of it. He testified that a few days earlier, David was the one who took the two rifles and hid them under a mattress in the guest room. Alfred Podgess found them, and that's why he locked them up in the mail truck. Scott Franz claimed that David Curtis was the mastermind behind the murder of his mother and stepfather.

And while in his original police statement Scott said it was his idea to get rid of the bodies, now it was his testimony that it was David's idea, that it was David who didn't want to call the police, and that it was David's idea to scrub the crime scene and flee. Scott also claimed that David was enjoying himself during the cleanup and was actually grinning at one stage as he reportedly played with Alfred Pogess's congealed blood like it was jello. Scott also testified that David joked about a piece of gum possibly being Alfred's pituitary gland. To all of this, David furiously scribbled, not true, on his lawyer's legal pad.

Scott was asked about a part of his police statement where he said that he warned David that morning, that quote, if you have to go out of the house shooting, go ahead. He clarified that the warning was not meant as encouragement to shoot his mother. He was referring to his stepfather Alfred. And when he ran downstairs and saw that his mother was dead, he almost shot David himself, but quote quote I just couldn't kill a person for no reason. This was the Defenses Inn during his cross-examination. If Scott believed that

the act of shooting and killing his own mother was no reason to kill David Curtis didn't that mean he also believed it was an accident all along? Michael Shotlin reminded Scott that that's what he originally told investigators in Texas, and that's what he told his own siblings again and again that David shot their mother by accident. He put it to Scott again, quote, Isn't it a fact that the reason you didn't shoot David Curtis right there was that you were satisfied from his attitude, from his mental condition, from his emotional condition,

and from the physical facts that he had accidentally shot your mother? Scott replied, I believe so. Scott Franz had backed himself into a corner. This was good news for David Curtis and his defense. The last witness for the prosecution was Dr. Halbert Fillinger, the medical examiner from Philadelphia who performed the autopsies on Alfred and Rosemary Pogis. He testified that Rosemary had been shot from a distance of about 2-3 feet. The.30 caliber bullet had entered her lower abdomen from the right and traveled down and across her body at an odd angle, lodging in her left hip. It was not the kind of wound made by someone who intended murder. Defence lawyer Michael Shotland would argue that this evidence, combined with the testimony

of the ballistics expert and of course his examination of Scott Franz, was consistent with an accidental shooting. It was evidence that supported David's defence. But then, at the prosecution's urging, Dr. Filinger also pulled the jurors deep into the bloody murder scene upstairs involving Scott Franz and Alfred Pogis. It had nothing to do with David Curtis and the shooting death of Rosemary Pogis, the crime he was on trial for, but there was certainly a strategy behind it. As expected, Dr. Filinger testified that it

was his conclusion that Alfred Pogess died of a contact wound, and the muzzle of the rifle was likely placed directly against his head before the trigger was pulled. Dr. Filinger said he reached this conclusion because of the nature of the wound to Alfred's head and the way it shattered most of the bones in his skull. He said a contact wound was the only way to account for the extent of Alfred's injuries. On cross-examination, David's defense lawyer Michael Shotland argued

with the medical examiner on this part of his testimony and why there was no mention of it in his original report. Dr. Filinger said that the autopsy report was just observations, what he saw, not how he interpreted it. The cross-examination did not go well and at certain points it veered into ridiculous territory, with the defence lawyer bringing up John F. Kennedy's extensive wounds on the day he was assassinated. The former president clearly wasn't shot at close range, so how was the doctor able to conclude that Alfred Pogess had been?

Dr. Filinger didn't back down and the two sparred for a while. But according to author David Hayes in his book, Blood Knot, the only possible outcome from this would have been a very confused jury. In closing arguments, Michael Shotlin would remind them that this trial had nothing to do with Alfred Pogess. And the reason the prosecutor seemed to be pushing the narrative that Scott

Frantz had killed his stepfather in cold blood as he was sleeping was very simple. Quote, the county prosecutor wants you to believe that it is an assassination upstairs, therefore it's an assassination downstairs. That was the last of the prosecution's witnesses. It was time for the defence. Michael Shotlin called his own expert forensic witness to counter the medical examiner's opinion on the autopsy. Dr Dominic DiMaio was the former chief medical examiner for the city of New York and a highly

respected forensic pathologist. He confirmed he'd read Dr. Filinger's observations as outlined in his autopsy report and testified that in his opinion it did not show that Alfred Pogess died of a direct contact wound. In fact, the opposite. Dr. DeMaio testified there was no evidence of soot, powder and burning, which would be present if it was a contact wound. And when shown an autopsy photo of that head wound, he testified that the shape of it was quote, more typical of a distant shot. This is not a contact wound." It was more positive testimony for David Curtis' case. The bad news was once again on the horizon.

County prosecutor Paul Cheyette had hoped David Curtis would take the stand in his own defense so he could question him about those diary entries. The prosecutor felt strongly that if the jurors could hear testimony from this weird Canadian outsider, they too would be convinced that he was the mastermind of the killings. But it was only after he'd rested his case that prosecutor Cheyette learned the defense would not be calling David to testify. That meant there was no one to question about his diary entries.

Cheyette realized he made a mistake. So the following morning, he made the unusual decision to ask the judge if he could reopen it so he could call his star witness Scott Franz back to the stand. Prosecutor Cheyette argued that according to Scott, he and David had discussed those diary entries when they were in prison together before they were separated and he had a right to ask Scott about that conversation. But really, his goal was for the jury to hear about David's disturbing diary entries. The questioning didn't much matter. Of course, David's lawyer objected. What did Scott's interpretation of what David may have told him about his diary entries

have to do with the matter at trial. The judge decided to hold a voir dire, a trial within a trial, to test the potential evidence without the jury present before deciding if they should hear it or not. Scott Franz was put back on the stand, and prosecutor Cheyette asked him to read a passage from David's private diary. So Scott read the following passage, quote, I am mad, insane as I always wanted to be. I want power. I do not want to die. I want to do it. But the thought becomes more frightening by the hour.

However, it makes sense. Freedom, money, a start on my life. I must carry it through." Scott Franz was also asked to read other entries with cryptic references to school pranks and more dark thoughts after David's friend's suicide, which included references to getting sweet revenge. Later, David Curtis would tell author David Hayes that these and other writings were his attempt to imitate the stark nihilism of one of his own favourite writers, Franz Kafka.

But in the absence of the jury, when Scott Franz was asked what he thought David meant by that diary entry, he offered up the darkest interpretation possible. He said it meant David wanted total control and he wanted to kill everyone on earth, including his own parents. David frantically scribbled on the legal pad, He's lying. This is totally ludicrous. His lawyer, Michael Shotland, pressed the judge to discard the diary evidence, arguing that Scott Franz was a convicted murderer who was not present when David wrote those

entries. He moved for an absolute acquittal, arguing that the prosecution hadn't produced any evidence proving that David Curtis had shot Rosemary Podgess with intent. There was no case against his client, he said. This was outrageous. The judge denied the request to acquit David, but he did agree that the jury would not be allowed to hear about the diary entries or Scott France's opinion of them. David Curtis and his family were, of course,

greatly relieved about this. But that relief would last exactly one day, because this wasn't Canada with its publication bans, it was the United States and a hungry media were preparing to go to press. During the voir dire where the judge decided David Curtis' diary entries would not be admitted into evidence, it's important to note that the jurors may have been dismissed, but the press and the public were not. And if the trial were in Canada, a publication ban would have been imposed to prevent the

media from reporting on what happened with the diary entries, because it could obviously influence the jury before they decide on a verdict. But in the US, the media are allowed to report on voir dire proceedings. In addition, juries in New Jersey are rarely sequestered. This particular jury went home every night. The judge gave them strict orders to ignore the press and not read any articles about the case until after the verdict. But they would have found it very difficult

to avoid the merciless headlines the next morning. One from the Asbury Park Press read, Diary tells of accused slayer thinking of killing his own parents. New Jersey's Daily Register read, Killer Diary, I am mad. It was devastating and not just for David's defense. David himself was distraught over the idea that his own parents might believe he wanted to kill them. He asked for permission to phone them at the

hotel where they had stayed throughout the trial, a request that was commonly denied but this time permitted. David's aunt Lorraine would tell author David Hayes that quote, by some miracle David's call was put through to our room. Each of us was able to reassure him we didn't believe a word Scott said. Least of all that David would ever have thought of killing his parents. We told him we loved him. In his closing arguments, county prosecutor Paul Cheyette reiterated his argument that David Curtis purposely and knowingly shot Mrs Podges to get revenge for the way he'd

been treated that week as Scott's guest. And regardless of the reason, the prosecutor argued there was no doubt that David Curtis brought a loaded gun into that house, and no doubt he pulled the trigger. That, he said, is the definition of murder. Cheyette added, quote, This was no panic, the scrubbing of the walls, the dark blue trunk, and then they go to Pennsylvania and dump these bodies. David Curtis should be found guilty of murder. Because of the evidence in this case, David Curtis is guilty of murder. David's lawyer Michael Shotland closed

by stating there was no reason for David to kill Rosemary Pogis. She was nice and everyone liked her. He had no motive whatsoever. And the nature of the bullet wound in her lower abdomen, the way it travelled down and across her body, was in line with a faulty gun going off in a panicky collision. Shotlin reminded the jurors that the two teenagers had fled. The jury was shocked to learn that the two teenagers had fled. The jury was shocked to learn that the two teenagers had fled. The jury was shocked to learn that the two teenagers had fled.

The jury was shocked to learn that the two teenagers had fled. The jury was shocked to learn that the two teenagers had fled. The jury was shocked to learn that the two teenagers had fled. panic, equals a guilty conscience. He reminded them that Scott's police statement and his testimony specified the reason they drove to Texas. Scott wanted to tell his sister Rosie everything before going to the police. Shotlin added, quote, Maybe David is stupid or negligent, but that is the extent of his culpability. What has the state proven? They haven't proven that Mrs. Pogess died from a rifle wound inflicted under circumstances that

you don't know about, and that a couple of stupid kids, or at least one stupid kid and one kid who says he committed murder, put the bodies in a van and left the scene. They made a bad judgment there, left the bodies somewhere in Pennsylvania and went scooting around the country ending up in Texas hoping to get to the sisters. That's what the prosecutors proved. Michael Shotland asked the jury to acquit David Curtis and quote, send him back to Canada from whence he came. Before the jury retired to deliberate, the judge reminded them of three guilty verdicts they could consider. They could find David Curtis guilty of first degree murder,

which required planning and intent, but needed no motive. If that verdict went too far, the judge gave the jury two other options. They could find David guilty of reckless manslaughter if they believed he knew there was a risk he could kill Rosemary Pogess and took that risk anyway when he carried that loaded gun in the house. Or they could find him guilty of the more serious crime of aggravated manslaughter, which carries a harsher penalty because it also includes extreme indifference to human life. The judge reminded the jury that although Scott Franz agreed to testify against David Curtis in exchange for promises of a reduced sentence, they still had a right to convict David on Scott's testimony alone if they believed it to be credible.

The only thing they had to make sure of was that they were satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt of David's guilt. After the judge dismissed the jury, David's lawyer Michael Shotland asked him to consider making a clearer distinction between reckless and aggravated manslaughter. He also asked that the jury be offered one more verdict option, accidental homicide, which would effectively result in David's acquittal. But tough on crime, Jaajan known denied all these requests. Hours later, just as Shotland suspected, the jury asked for clarification on the difference between reckless and aggravated manslaughter. Judge Arnone explained that both included the same level of recklessness, but aggravated manslaughter is more serious because it also includes extreme indifference to human life.

A few hours later, the jury asked, What does extreme indifference to human life mean? The judge gave them an example. Imagine a man pushing a piano off a building onto Times Square just to see what would happen. He might not have had intent to cause grievous harm to anyone on the ground below, but he simply didn't care if he did. That is extreme indifference to human life. Michael Shotlin wondered if these questions were an indication that the jury was wrestling with the possibility that David was not a stone cold murderer. He certainly hoped so. I'm obsessed with stackable jewelry. Why pick just one piece when you can play, mix and stack them for a totally unique look? And that's where Majuri comes in.

It's a fine jewelry brand known for its minimal, yet playful aesthetic. Missouri's gorgeous pieces are designed for stacking and perfect for everyday wear. Just get one piece that you're feeling today and start playing. There's no right or wrong answers. You can mix styles and metals. I love the duo beaded stacker ring in yellow gold. And when your stack is ready, repeat. Why not add an extra stacker ring or a gorgeous single stud to make your ear stack even more

unique? Mejuri pieces are designed in-house and handcrafted by world-renowned jewelers with a focus on high quality. They're also committed to ethical and sustainable production. So with Mejuri, you don't have to choose between fine jewellery and your values or the planet. So play, mix and stack in store, in app or at mejuri.com. That's M-E-J-U-R-I dot com. Mejuri.

You know that person who loves taking photos and plans to print and frame them but they just end up sitting on their phone. That was me until I found Aura Frames. There's a reason it's named the number one digital frame by Wirecutter. Aura looks like a gorgeous modern picture frame. It's also full of surprises and incredibly easy to use. I'm on a nostalgia kick and I've loaded my Aura frame with my favorite funny photos from years ago, like my son's guilty toddler face when he got into the pantry and made

quite the mess. We can laugh together now that I don't have to clean it up. And it's not just photos. With Aura, you can upload video clips too and relive those sweet moments together, like when the kids met our new dog for the first time instead of wasting away on the camera roll. Aura easily pairs with your devices and home wifi, the free app is a breeze to use, and with free unlimited storage you can upload as many photos and videos as you want. Right now you can save on the perfect gift that keeps on giving by visiting AuraFrames.com.

For a limited time listeners can get $25 off their best selling Carver Mat Frame with code CTC. That's AuraFramescom, promo code CTC. And don't forget to mention that we sent you to show your support for the show. Terms and conditions apply. AuraFrames.com. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions

so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world. After deliberating for almost 12 hours over two days, the jury found David Curtis not guilty of the first-degree murder of Rosemary Podgis. But once again for the Curtis family, their relief was short-lived because David was found guilty of aggravated manslaughter, the harshest of the two manslaughter options. His shoulders visibly sagged. This meant the jury believed that he didn't intend on killing Rosemary Podgess when he carried a loaded gun into the house,

but he knew there was a risk and simply didn't care. David Curtis' parents sat gutted. They weren't allowed to talk to David, who was soon taken away in handcuffs. After thanking lawyer Michael Shotland for defending their son and calling the rest of the family to deliver the bad news, Jim and Alice Curtis left New Jersey in their station wagon. In the back was an unused sleeping bag they had thought their son might need in case he got tired on the long drive back to Nova Scotia. They were of course devastated to instead be leaving without him. There was no way to know if the jurors saw those headlines about David Curtis's diary

entries. But amidst the drama of the trial, it was easy to forget that David was a Canadian teenager caught in the American court system. After the verdict, his lawyer wrote a furious letter to the New Jersey court administrator, describing the media's reporting on the diary entries as a shocking disregard of his client's rights. But it was too late, the damage had been done. The Curtis family felt steamrolled by the American justice system, but they also felt they had been ill served by the Canadian government. It was reported that after David's arrest in Texas,

no one from the Canadian consulate ever contacted him. And even though his father, Jim Curtis, had spoken to consulate officials in New Jersey, no one contacted them after David's arraignment either. One of the chief purposes of a consulate is to help citizens who have been detained outside of Canada, yet David was ignored. And his family's anger only increased weeks later when the judge sentenced David Curtis to the

maximum for aggravated manslaughter, 20 years in prison with no chance of parole for 10. It was expected for the judge known as Never Come Home Again are known. With that, he could then sentence Scott Frans for pleading guilty to first degree murder. Scott's defence lawyer had argued that quote, If David Curtis faces a maximum of 20 years with a minimum parole of 10, then certainly the less influential of the two, the less evil of the two, the one who came under the spell of David Curtis, the one who saved the state the time and expense of a trial, the one who cooperated in the presentation of the case against the co-defendant, shouldn't get the same numbers.

Jar Jar Known sentenced Scott Franz to 20 years in prison with no chance of parole for 10. It appeared to be the exact same sentence as he'd given David Curtis, but there was a big difference. David had received the maximum for aggravated manslaughter, yet Scott, who pleaded guilty to the much more serious crime of first-degree murder, received the minimum sentence. It was his reward for testifying against his friend. In addition, Scott was sent to a youth detention center in New Jersey to serve his sentence, a modern

facility where he was given a clerical job and was allowed to have a stereo in his cell. But David remained at the overcrowded Monmouth County Jail, where he continued to sleep on a mat on a corridor floor and shared quarters with about 40 other inmates. David's aunt Lorraine had come from Canada to support the family through the trial and told the Toronto Star that the injustice done to her nephew was shocking. Quote, How is it that a Canadian youth can be invited into an American home where he is terrorized half out of his mind and then gets slapped with a 20 year sentence.

She added, quote, We as a family are wondering why Scott invited David into that home. Always an avid writer, David had continued to write short stories, poems and letters to family members while he was in prison. David had continued to write short stories, poems and letters to family members while he was in prison.

Aunt Lorraine was one of the recipients. In one letter to her, he provided an update about how he was feeling. He wrote, quote, Perhaps you in Canada have been wondering about my emotional health with the trial, conviction and sentencing. Actually I've been quite fine and not affected too deeply. About a week before the trial I was over-roared, but one night while I was sleeping in the isolation cell I resolved several things. That if I got time I would use it to advance my mind and not waste away or feel excessively depressed or do nothing.

That when I emerged, I would have gained something. This whole experience has seemed unreal. Only once during the trial, when Scott testified, did it feel like I was personally involved and not simply an observer. I still have not accepted the reality and probably never will, though I continue to Borden Town Youth Correctional Center in New Jersey, an older institution that used to be a prison farm before becoming a medium security reformatory. It was better than the Monmouth County Jail, but not by much.

A flurry of appeals followed David Curtis' sentencing. The Curtis family began inundating the Canadian government with pleas to intervene in his case or at least help get David transferred to a prison in Canada. It was difficult for them to visit him in New Jersey and by some accounts they drained their retirement savings to help David spending more than $100,000. Soon the story of David Curtis began to go the equivalent of viral for the 1980s. Every major newspaper in Canada began to take a closer look at the story and investigative TV shows soon followed. In 1984, the local CBC current affairs show out of Halifax called Inquirer did a feature

documentary on the story. Soon after, the local chapter of Amnesty International got involved and began to advise the Curtis family. CBC's The Fifth Estate and The Journal devoted segments to the case, focusing on the unfairness of the trial and how it was loaded against David Curtis, the shady plea bargain, and how Scott France had changed his story to presumably get a lesser prison sentence. Many of the stories examined the circumstances leading up to the crime and questioned why local police had ever allowed Alfred Pogess to acquire all those guns in the first place in light of the dozens and dozens of visits they made to that home to break up domestic disputes.

of visits they made to that home to break up domestic disputes. David Curtis also finally began to speak for himself from prison, but only briefly. In a feature article by Michael Hanlon for the Toronto Stars Saturday magazine, he was quoted saying, I made the biggest mistake of my life. I got in over my head in that weird, violent house. And when it got as bad as it did, I should have come home immediately. David received an outpouring of letters

and support from Canada. Hundreds of Canadians wrote letters to the New Jersey government. Fundraisers and candlelight vigils were held across the country. People wore special t-shirts that read, Free David Curtis. The first appeal was based on the judge's errors in instructing the jury and his failure to outline other verdict options. That appeal failed. So Jim and Alice Curtis took their case all the way to the New Jersey Supreme Court with a new lawyer who put together a fresh argument. It was chiefly

focused on the fact that the grisly murder of Alfred Pogess should never have been brought up at David's trial in the first place because it only further conflated the two crimes and prejudiced the jury. They were effectively left with the impression that if Scott was a murderer, then surely David was as well. Once again, the appeal failed. The New Jersey Supreme Court declined to hear the case. And the Canadian government wasn't much help either. The newly elected Conservative Party led by Brian Mulroney didn't think it was their place to intervene.

After all the public uproar, External Affairs Minister Joe Clark had to give a statement to the media about it in February of 1985. He said quote, It is the view of this government that those court proceedings fully followed American law. It would be inappropriate for us to interfere in the judicial proceedings, as it would be for Canada to accept interference by the United States.

The Curtis family turned again to the governor of New Jersey begging for clemency. Again, they were denied. Their only hope now was a new state law that allowed for the international transfer of foreign prisoners. that allowed for the international transfer of foreign prisoners. In 1986, New Jersey became a signatory to a treaty between the US and Canada that allowed for prisoner exchanges. But the prosecutors in Monmouth County, New Jersey vowed to fight

any requests for David's transfer. They still saw him as the murderous mastermind behind the killings. And they knew that once he was back in Canada, he'd be eligible for parole much sooner than he would have been in the US. The sticking point for the prosecutors was always the fact that after Scott shot Alfred Pogess and David shot Rosemary, the teenagers fled the state together, dumped the bodies and ran. Fight, flight or freeze was one thing, but David's own supporters couldn't quite understand his actions either. In April of 1988, five years into his prison term, David Curtis gave another brief prison

interview to a Canadian reporter for Southern News, where he finally explained what he and Scott had been thinking when they took all this action. By this point, 24 years old, David described that day as a very traumatic situation. He was out of his depth and didn't know how to react. Quote, we were trying in some way to make things the way they were, to put the bodies away and make things right in the house. We were trying to put it in our minds that it didn't happen. It's just that it didn't seem like flight.

What I thought we were doing is that I was upset his mother was lying on the floor and Scott wanted to remove her. I liked her. She was a pleasant woman." When David was asked about the prosecution's case that he was the leader and meticulously planned out the events of that day day he scoffed, quote, some mastermind it wasn't really well planned out the way it turned out. He was asked to comment on speculation that Scott Franz had an alternative motive for inviting him to New Jersey to stay, that Scott effectively used him as part of his plan to rid himself of a family problem. David said he didn't buy it, and he also didn't blame Scott for turning against him and taking

that plea deal, because quote, he was in a very difficult situation. He was facing 30 years and by doing what he did, he got 10 years. He made a realistic choice. I don't see any point in saying I've been done wrong." David said he was still bothered about what happened that day. He believed he deserved to go to prison for it, although he felt he was only guilty of reckless manslaughter, not aggravated. Quote, I'm going to eventually get out of jail, but Mrs. Podgess is dead.

What happened to her is much more horrible than what has happened and can happen to me. In May of 1988, one month after that interview, the Governor of New Jersey finally approved David Curtis' prison transfer. He was sent back to Canada, to a medium security prison in Nova Scotia where he'd be closer to his parents. By fall of 1989, the following year, he was out on full parole after spending almost seven years in prison. He was now 25 years old. At the time, David told the Toronto Star he'd been the victim of a vindictive state justice system and his own stupid mistakes. But in prison, he realised what was important in life and held no bitterness. He'd made good on the promises he made to his aunt Lorraine in that letter. When he was in prison

in both the US and Canada, he had taken courses in psychology, philosophy and English literature, and he was now studying for a degree at a major university, majoring in physics. Two years after David Curtis was released from prison, a TV drama was broadcast about the case called Deadly Betrayal. Filmed in Halifax by a Canadian production company, the story was told from the perspective of the Curtis family, of David being invited to the Podgis home to stay and finding himself in the middle of an American horror story. The prosecutors and defense lawyers involved with

the case in New Jersey described the movie as a great piece of entertainment that wasn't rooted in fact and many complained about the way they had been portrayed in it. As for Scott Franz he hit the headlines in spring of 1992 almost ten years after the killings. Scott had escaped from prison, although escape wasn't really the right way to describe it. By that point the 28 year old was living in a halfway house in New Jersey, very close to being released on full parole. But for some inexplicable reason, he and a fellow resident of the halfway house, a convicted burglar, walked off one day and they didn't come back.

Two weeks later, an anonymous tip placed them all the way across the country in California, where, once again, Scott Franz was captured in a hotel room. There were never any answers about why Scott would take a risk like that when he was so close to having his freedom back, but a spokesperson with the correctional system insisted the two men would be returned to a secure facility, quote, some place with walls or a fence. They would also be facing escape charges with the possibility of additional years being added to their sentences. After that, there were only two more public updates about Scott Franz.

According to one article, Scott was released on full parole four years later in 1996. full parole four years later in 1996. And it appears he was dead within a year, aged 33 years old. His cause of death is unknown and there is no obituary to be found in the news archives, just a lone entry on Ancestry.com. After David Curtis graduated from university, he went on to become a scientific researcher in academia. By all accounts he faded away into a normal life, away from the headlines and the cameras. It appears that the last time he was quoted in the media was in 2002. By that point, it was 20 years after the horrific incident in New Jersey that set his life on a new course.

David Curtis told the reporter that he'd moved on, quote, I just prefer to remain off the radar. Thanks for listening. As a reminder, some names have been changed, and if you happen to know or know of anyone involved with this story, please respect their privacy. This series was pieced together from extensive news archives from both Canada and the US, a court document, and the book titled Blood Knot by journalist David Hayes, originally published in Canada under the title No Easy Answers. For the full list of resources and anything you want to know about the podcast, visit CanadianTrueCrime.ca.

As always, we'll be posting some of the clippings and photos mentioned in this series on the Canadian True Crime Facebook and Instagram pages. Canadian True Crime donates monthly to those facing injustice. This month we have donated to the Canadian Mental Health Association, who advocates and provides resources for the one in five people in Canada who have a mental illness. For more info, visit cmha.ca. Lisa Gabriel researched and wrote this episode.

Additional research and writing was by me. Audio editing was by Crosby Audio, and Eric Crosby voiced the disclaimer. Our senior producer is Lindsay Eldridge and Carol Weinberg is our script consultant. Narration and sound design was by me and the theme song was composed by We Talk of Dreams. I'll be back soon with another Canadian true crime episode. See you then. Furnishing a living room can be a hassle, from waiting weeks for delivery to lugging heavy couches through doorways and sometimes realizing that the furniture doesn't quite fit your space. Enter Cozy, an innovative Canadian furniture company.

Their pieces are comfortable, high quality and modular, with compact boxes that are easy to carry upstairs and free 2-5 day shipping. Cozy furniture is designed to grow with you. Maybe it's a small loveseat to start, but when you move house or add members to your family it's also easy to add modular pieces and expand that loveseat, or even reconfigure it into a gorgeous welcoming sectional. Check out the unmatched comfort of Cozy's Cielo Sofa Collection. It's plush, cloud-like and invites you to sink into it after a long day.

If you have guests to stay, they'll love the style and comfort of Cozy's Neptune sofa bed. And you'll love the versatility in the sleep kit option with sheets and pillows. With free shipping and a 30 day risk-free trial, you can't go wrong. Transform your living space today with Cozy. Visit Cozy.ca, spelled C-O-Z-E-Y, to start customizing your furniture. Cozy.ca spelled C-O-Z-E-Y to start customizing your furniture.

Cozy.ca. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world.